1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 629       Contents:  Backups and shadowed system disk$ Re: Backups and shadowed system disk$ Re: Backups and shadowed system diskP Call for papers: Next issue of the VAX/VMS 2 i64 letter on obsolete software sof Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: DEChub One diagram ? DEChub One diagram ?+ DECserver reloads over internet VPN tunnels / Re: DECserver reloads over internet VPN tunnels / Re: DECserver reloads over internet VPN tunnels K Re: Does anyone know if the DE500-XA (10-100 NIC) works OK with OVMS 7.3???  Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing a disk Erasing disks: conclusion  Re: Erasing disks: conclusion  HP's Adaptive Enterprise Re: HP's Adaptive Enterprise Re: HP's Adaptive Enterprise Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results# Re: Image needs to know where it is 0 Re: London to be disrupted next week by JF Mezei Mail Utility Routines problem  Main memory for galaxy Re: Mezei's Rabid Alan Erskine Re: Mezei's Rabid Alan Erskine Re: Mezei's Rabid Raccoon  Re: Mezei's Rabid Raccoon  Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus  Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus  Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus  Re: Oracle RDB and $status	 PlanetLab  Re: The old DEC complex. Re: The old DEC complex. Re: The old DEC complex. Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! Re: VMS Perl Question re LF  Re: VMS Perl Question re LF  Re: VMS Perl Question re LF  Re: [RECIPE] Roasted Mezei  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 11:51:19 -0800  From: hellion@visi.com (Hellion)) Subject: Backups and shadowed system disk = Message-ID: <1dafe751.0311121151.115b54f2@posting.google.com>   
 Hello all,  F Question for you regarding backups and shadow sets.  I understand from@ reading the Volume Shadowing for OpenVMS manual that in order toC guarantee myself a completely good backup of a shadow set, I should ? dismount the set, remount it less 1 member, backup the excluded 9 member, and then re-mount the excluded member to the set.   A My question is, how the heck can that work on a system disk?  I'm E guessing (haven't verified it, since I don't have a spare VAX to play ? with) that dismounting the system disk would cause me a load of B problems that probably would include not being able to re-mount itF since I wouldn't have a system disk to run the OS from at that point. ; Though perhaps being in a cluster would mitigate that risk.   D I'm also curious if anybody has a nice DCL script for automating theC dismount/split/remount-1/backup/rejoin process for normal disks.  I C assume that I also have to make sure that there are no jobs running 9 that are going to be using the disks during my attempt to  dismount/remount them.  $ In case it matters, my system specs:7 VAX 4100A clustered with VAX 4108, both running VMS 7.2 ' 4100A system shadow set is 3 RF35 disks ' 4108 system shadow set is 2 RZ40 disks.    Elliott  -------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:09:10 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>- Subject: Re: Backups and shadowed system disk 4 Message-ID: <3fb29367$0$13304$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Hellion wrote:   > Hello all, > H > Question for you regarding backups and shadow sets.  I understand fromB > reading the Volume Shadowing for OpenVMS manual that in order toE > guarantee myself a completely good backup of a shadow set, I should A > dismount the set, remount it less 1 member, backup the excluded ; > member, and then re-mount the excluded member to the set.  > C > My question is, how the heck can that work on a system disk?  I'm G > guessing (haven't verified it, since I don't have a spare VAX to play A > with) that dismounting the system disk would cause me a load of D > problems that probably would include not being able to re-mount itH > since I wouldn't have a system disk to run the OS from at that point. = > Though perhaps being in a cluster would mitigate that risk.   D You cannot dismount the system disk where you booted from. What you ? should do, on the other hand, is to break the shadow set, do a  = backup/image of the shadow disk, then rebuild the shadow set.    D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:14:41 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) - Subject: Re: Backups and shadowed system disk 2 Message-ID: <5pxsb.8911$XD6.1344@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 In article <3fb29367$0$13304$626a54ce@news.free.fr>,  $ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:  < >You cannot dismount the system disk where you booted from.    Correct.  Don't even try.   D >What you should do, on the other hand, is to break the shadow set, C >do a backup/image of the shadow disk, then rebuild the shadow set.   ? Do everything you can to ensure that there is NO disk activity  D when you break the shadow set.  The shadowing software should ensure? that all file are intact, but if there is activity that effects > multiple files they can be inconsistent on the removed volume.= The risk of that is low, but the effect could be considerable   when you need to use the backup.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:06:15 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>Y Subject: Call for papers: Next issue of the VAX/VMS 2 i64 letter on obsolete software sof 4 Message-ID: <3fb25a8d$0$27586$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Hi all,   N Next letter will focus on obsolete and/or not ported VAX/VMS layered products.  Q If you have issues, concerns or problems on this subject, feel free to post them  S as replies in here or via email to: letter at firstnamelastname dot fr (*not* .com)   ) Thanks for helping the VAX/VMS Community.    D. --  F    +-----------------------------------------------------------------+F    | TRY a FutureVAX : http://www.didiermorandi.com/FutureVAX_us.htm |F    +-----------------------------------------------------------------+  ;             Read the last VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration News C      English: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf C       French: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311fr.pdf   F didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPC      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ Programmation F Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287D    SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:41:25 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? . Message-ID: <bou5tl$p39$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  { hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes in article <Gowsb.8902$py6.7256@news.cpqcorp.net> dated Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:05:58 GMT: f >In article <Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes:K >:Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient page  K >:file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likely  I >:large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?   7 >:That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?    > J >  Other than the disk storage involved (and the usual risks of disk blockK >  errors that might arise underneath the pagefile), having a pagefile that I >  is larger than current requirements should not have any particular nor / >  any particularly noticeable adverse effects.   H Hmmm, that doesn't agree with what I learned in "OpenVMS Performance andL Tuning" back in the day.  The instructor said yes a pagefile can be too big,L and cited a couple of reasons, I'm not sure if they are as relevant today as6 they were back then, or even if I remember them right.  G * Virtual pages are indexed in RAM, and the size is proportional to the F total amount of virtual memory.  Changing the page size from 512 to 8K2 (as in VAX-Alpha transition) helps here, I'm sure.  K * A larger pagefile spans more disk cylinders, which increases your average / seek time when you're fetching a bunch of them.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:17:45 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? / Message-ID: <sHvsb.183413$Fm2.166281@attbi_s04>   e In article <Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes: J !Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient page J !file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likely H !large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?  6 !That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?   ! I !(I realize the question is being asked in a very general way.  I'm look  & !for a general way to answer it, too.) !   F Generally, 	:-) you want to make sure you have more than one pagefile,L ideally on different I/O buses (so that you can survive the loss of a bus). N The pagefile(s) should be contiguous, if possible.  I use a rule of thumb thatN the total size of my pagefile(s) equals 2X memory.  I've heard that "too many"3 pagefiles are not good, so perhaps two are optimal.   ' YMMV, of course.  This works OK for me.   J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:05:58 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) % Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 2 Message-ID: <Gowsb.8902$py6.7256@news.cpqcorp.net>  e In article <Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes: J :Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient page J :file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likely H :large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?  6 :That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?    I   Other than the disk storage involved (and the usual risks of disk block J   errors that might arise underneath the pagefile), having a pagefile thatH   is larger than current requirements should not have any particular nor.   any particularly noticeable adverse effects.  K   Folks will also suggest having pagefiles spanning disk spindles, and that L   is certainly reasonable for configurations with paging I/O loads targetingK   the pagefile(s) or configurations with I/O contention on these spindles.  K   (If you're seeing high paging I/O loading, of course, you might also want L   to look to adding physical memory and increasing working sets, of course.)  L   I typically deliberately configure my pagefile larger, simply because that>   means I have less need to revisit and extend the file later.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:03:30 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 4 Message-ID: <3fb29214$0$13293$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Alfred Falk wrote:  K > Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient page  K > file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likely  I > large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?   7 > That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?    > J > (I realize the question is being asked in a very general way.  I'm look ' > for a general way to answer it, too.)   = I would (as usual) use the default procedure which is, to me,   & $ @sys$update:autogen getdata genfiles  H should build a default set of system files from your current config (if  my memory is good).   C Then you reboot, in order for VMS to use the latest version of the  0 files, then "you may wish to purge these files".   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:38:12 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? ( Message-ID: <3FB2D261.B7F1863@istop.com>   Didier Morandi wrote: ( > $ @sys$update:autogen getdata genfiles > I > should build a default set of system files from your current config (if  > my memory is good).   - I went through great lengths to defeat this.   In modparams.dat you put:    pagefile = 0 swapfile = 0 dumpfile = 0  - This way, autogen doesn't mess with my files.   M Autogen would underestimate the size of page files I need. For instance, if I J edit a large file with TPU, or if I compile something like kermit or otherN large programs that require lots of memory, I'll be borrowing lots of space inK the page file, but such activities don't occur oftyen enough for autogen to  know about those needs.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:56:02 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> % Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 9 Message-ID: <C9Esb.28301$Vu6.21556@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   G The old rule of thumb was 2x your main memory.  With the growth of main I memory into the GB range, we are trying to have at least 1x the amount of K memory on our systems.  With 7.2-1h1, I was unable to make larger than an 8 J million block pagefile.  With 7.3-1 I made some 16 million block pagefilesK earlier this week for a system that has 16GB of RAM.  From my viewpoint, it 4 is more a question of can you afford the di$k $pace?  J If you have something like consoleworks that monitors your console output,I you can see the Pagefile filling up, Pagefile full...System attempting to L continue  messages that might be produced.  We asked HP how/when these whereF generated.  They responded that there was no rhyme/reason for when theL message would come out, and that you could not RELY on the message to appear before the system froze.  4 Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> wrote in message3 news:Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145... J > Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient pageJ > file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likelyG > large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?   7 What exactly do you mean by cost?  Performance or $$$$?   5 > That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?  > I > (I realize the question is being asked in a very general way.  I'm look ' > for a general way to answer it, too.)  >  > --B > ----------------------------------------------------------------B >   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.caB > R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185- >   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 3 >                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada ! > http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4 " > http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:45:21 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? ) Message-ID: <3FB31A71.95782D68@istop.com>    Mike Naime wrote: K > you can see the Pagefile filling up, Pagefile full...System attempting to N > continue  messages that might be produced.  We asked HP how/when these whereH > generated.  They responded that there was no rhyme/reason for when the > message would come out,   L These are essentially a symptom of some users having too great a pgfilquota K in their UAF. At the first message, you kill off any TPU session. Editing a 4 large file will consume much space in the page file.  M If you are lucky, you are the one trying to start a TPU of a very large file, K and at the first message, you CTRY-Y an EXIT right away, which will release . all the page file TPU was starting to consume.  M Having multiple page files allows you to reduce the odds that a rogue process N will freeze the system since system processes *might* be mapped to a differentK page file so one full page file wouldn't freeze the processes mapped to the  other pagefile.   H On the other hand, having one larger page file reduces the chances of itG getting fragmented/full since free space is available to all processes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:25:00 -0500 # From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> ! Subject: Re: DEChub One diagram ? , Message-ID: <bouivt$lf@library2.airnews.net>  K You probably do not want to repair a 'Dehua' .... you can get them for $200 L ..... what are you attaching to the dehua... a repeater... if so you can get a good switch for $200= "Lars Holmstrm" <lars.holmstrom@flysta.net> wrote in message " news:3fb2c44c$1@news.wineasy.se...H > I know this is not a true VMS problem, but here are the people/readers that > may know.  > 2 > My DEChub One is broken so my cluster is broken.9 > I need a circuit diagram in order to repair the device.  > Can any one help me ?  >  > /Lars  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 00:37:50 +01002 From: "Lars Holmstrm" <lars.holmstrom@flysta.net> Subject: DEChub One diagram ? ( Message-ID: <3fb2c44c$1@news.wineasy.se>  K I know this is not a true VMS problem, but here are the people/readers that 	 may know.   0 My DEChub One is broken so my cluster is broken.7 I need a circuit diagram in order to repair the device.  Can any one help me ?    /Lars    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 14:39:19 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)4 Subject: DECserver reloads over internet VPN tunnels= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0311121439.4f16bac8@posting.google.com>   B We are looking at taking down our last MUXserver based remote siteD network and replacing it with internet connections and VPN tunnels. @ Since the sites are retaining terminals and serial printers, the@ remote DECmuxen will be replaced with TCP/IP capable DECservers.  B Normally we would insist on flash-equipped DECservers so no remoteD boot would be required, but the customer has several DECserver 90TLsC (predecessor to the 90M, with no flash available) and would like to D save a  bit on the transition by using them at the remote site.  TheF LAT-only 90L+ units will be retained at the central facility where the= Alpha is since there will be no bridging through the tunnels.   D Can a DECserver successfully and consistently load over a moderatelyF low speed link (IDSL is likely, 144kbps) using TFTP?  The amount saved@ over even used flash-capable 90Ms or 700s would be considerable.   Rich CCS    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:21:07 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 8 Subject: Re: DECserver reloads over internet VPN tunnels' Message-ID: <3FB2C063.3050306@MMaz.com>    Rich Jordan wrote:  C >We are looking at taking down our last MUXserver based remote site E >network and replacing it with internet connections and VPN tunnels.  A >Since the sites are retaining terminals and serial printers, the A >remote DECmuxen will be replaced with TCP/IP capable DECservers.  > C >Normally we would insist on flash-equipped DECservers so no remote E >boot would be required, but the customer has several DECserver 90TLs D >(predecessor to the 90M, with no flash available) and would like toE >save a  bit on the transition by using them at the remote site.  The G >LAT-only 90L+ units will be retained at the central facility where the > >Alpha is since there will be no bridging through the tunnels. > E >Can a DECserver successfully and consistently load over a moderately G >low speed link (IDSL is likely, 144kbps) using TFTP?  The amount saved A >over even used flash-capable 90Ms or 700s would be considerable.  >  >    > G At one point there was a Windows based loader, something 'runner', that D you could load on your PC to handle situations like this.  It worked@ fine for as long as we needed it...  If someone can remember theD software title, it was a Digital product, it might still exist under alternate labeling...    Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:23:04 GMT 1 From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jerry.braga@rogers.com> 8 Subject: Re: DECserver reloads over internet VPN tunnelsF Message-ID: <Y1Bsb.7868$iD1.5707@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  0 We use this product.  It called netrider loader.  K We use this in conjunction with Firedaemon service that allows the netrider F loader program to run as a background service on a PC or Server at theI remote location.  FireDaemon allows 1 free service without any cost which  was great for us.   3 "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in message 7 news:cc5619f2.0311121439.4f16bac8@posting.google.com... D > We are looking at taking down our last MUXserver based remote siteE > network and replacing it with internet connections and VPN tunnels. B > Since the sites are retaining terminals and serial printers, theB > remote DECmuxen will be replaced with TCP/IP capable DECservers. > D > Normally we would insist on flash-equipped DECservers so no remoteF > boot would be required, but the customer has several DECserver 90TLsE > (predecessor to the 90M, with no flash available) and would like to F > save a  bit on the transition by using them at the remote site.  TheH > LAT-only 90L+ units will be retained at the central facility where the? > Alpha is since there will be no bridging through the tunnels.  > F > Can a DECserver successfully and consistently load over a moderatelyH > low speed link (IDSL is likely, 144kbps) using TFTP?  The amount savedB > over even used flash-capable 90Ms or 700s would be considerable. >  > Rich > CCS    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:29:09 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) T Subject: Re: Does anyone know if the DE500-XA (10-100 NIC) works OK with OVMS 7.3???2 Message-ID: <F5usb.8887$Fi6.8019@news.cpqcorp.net>  ` In article <ecd67d30.0311111449.2d46b095@posting.google.com>, len@psds.com (Len Whitwer) writes:/ :Has anyone run OVMS 7.3 with an old DE500-XA??   F   OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 supports the DE500-XA controller on various Alpha   platforms.    D   Given you are asking the question (and I would certainly encourageC   including more than just one or two lines with your question, and C   particularly the inclusion of details such as the platform and/or A   the background on the particular problem), I will infer you are B   having problems getting the DE500-XA to work.  If this inferenceB   is correct, please review the OpenVMS Frequently Asked QuestionsA   (FAQ) section on this topic, and please review the necessity of B   the console environment variables for this controller as it doesD   not support auto-negotiation.  Various of the relevent SRM console"   details are included in the FAQ.  G   For the platform-specific support details, please see the AlphaServer G   website -- http://www.hp.com/go/server/ will get you there -- for the 6   hardware support matrix for the particular platform.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:14:26 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 2 Message-ID: <STtsb.8882$Fi6.7601@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F207152A@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu>, "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes:  D :We are preparing to surplus some old disks, some of which contain =G :sensitive data. Are there any good VMS utilities that will erase all =  :data on a disk?     Yes.  No.  Maybe.     L   This question is a whole lot more difficult than it looks, and the correctJ   answer is entirely dependent on the value of the information involved.  L   Booting an installation disk and using tools such as INITIALIZE/ERASE willM   most likely work for various applications, but it is possible that at least L   some of the disk data in bad blocks might still be readable, for instance.  I   The value of the data -- either the intrinsic value of the data, or the I   cost of the unintended exposure of the data -- can obviously exceed the J   potential profit expected from the sale of the disk device, meaning that4   various customers will simply destroy the disks.    K   The US HIPPA privacy requirements, for instance, could potentially negate J   any potential profits from selling surplus disk devices that contain(ed)J   healthcare-related patient information.  If sold, I would tend to expectH   these disks would have to be scrubbed carefully, and the various risksG   and benefits involved weighed carefully by the equivalent of the site D   security (or privacy) officer; by someone charged with knowing the9   values, the exposures, the technologies, and the costs.   G   The OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section entitled "How to G   perform a security disk erasure?" might be of interest here, as well.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:20:47 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 2 Message-ID: <PZtsb.8884$Fi6.3755@news.cpqcorp.net>  b In article <bor7ip$ktg$2@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:> :How much would any potential "someones" pay to have the data?< :A simple $ INIT/ERASE will put the data out of reach of all; :but government spooks and others with fancy electronics to : :recover the data, and a budget for such things, but there( :*are* those out there with such things.  I   I have no fancy equipment, though I can sometimes acquire at least some K   disk data back after an erasure.  (This problem is tougher than it looks, K   there are some easy mistakes I've seen folks make.  The business costs of I   data exposure can be high even when the value of specific data involved 	   isn't.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:22:48 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk 2 Message-ID: <I%tsb.8885$Fi6.2069@news.cpqcorp.net>  q In article <jDYbf3nJhQg1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  :In article <EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F207152A@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu>, "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes:   F :> We are preparing to surplus some old disks, some of which contain =I :> sensitive data. Are there any good VMS utilities that will erase all =  :> data on a disk? : 0 :   initialize/erase is very good and very fast.    F   To paraphrase the old joke, good is not always synonymous with fast.  F   For a serious treatment of the topic of erasure, please see the Data@   Remanence book available within the NSCS Rainbow Books series.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:01:13 -0600 1 From: "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> " Subject: Erasing disks: conclusionL Message-ID: <EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F20816EA@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu>   Hi, F Thanks to the many who offered suggestions. In particular R. Klute's =G link to the Data Recovery Labs and Hoff's comments and pointer to the = H FAQ. My initial inclination to go the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE route was =J not feasible as these are MSCP served SCSI and that command fails. Also, =I my good intentions to recycle older SCSI drives seems to be less worthy = C if there is little demand for these. Finally, given that the data = F sensitivity in question relates to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward =G factor that Hoff mentions is very significant. So, the suggestions of = G physical destruction, including the possible use of firearms, which I = H first passed over as amusing are now considered as the most reasonable =
 alternatives.  Thanks,  Pat G.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 15:37:04 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) & Subject: Re: Erasing disks: conclusion3 Message-ID: <cLNEMb0U8xb9@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F20816EA@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu>, "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes: > Hi, H > Thanks to the many who offered suggestions. In particular R. Klute's =I > link to the Data Recovery Labs and Hoff's comments and pointer to the = J > FAQ. My initial inclination to go the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE route was =L > not feasible as these are MSCP served SCSI and that command fails. Also, =K > my good intentions to recycle older SCSI drives seems to be less worthy = E > if there is little demand for these. Finally, given that the data = H > sensitivity in question relates to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward =I > factor that Hoff mentions is very significant. So, the suggestions of = I > physical destruction, including the possible use of firearms, which I = J > first passed over as amusing are now considered as the most reasonable = > alternatives.   E 	Firearms are a fast method.  Another trick is to drill through them   	with a power drill.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:11:22 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ! Subject: HP's Adaptive Enterprise G Message-ID: <uBvsb.38630$HoK.2519@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   / Just wondering how much of it will include VMS.   ; http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/datbus/article.php/3107821   ) HP Views Adaptive Enterprise as 'Uber OS'  By Michael Singer  November 12, 2003     I Keeping the heat on its utility computing rivals, Hewlett-Packard (Quote, C Chart) Tuesday outlined sweeping changes to its Adaptive Enterprise B platform, including new software, partners, and an IP acquisition.  I At an event in Hamburg, Germany, the Palo Alto, Calif.-based computer and J printer maker introduced more than 40 new management services and softwareK products to help customers manage their heterogeneous server rooms and data G centers. The new software is part of HP's Adaptive Enterprise strategy, F which was launched in May. The idea is to create a top-level operatingE system that powers several operating systems such as UNIX, Linux, and K Windows and lets companies apply virtualization, provisioning, and policies  to their management software.   J HP senior vice president for Adaptive Enterprise Nora Denzel characterizes the software as an "uber-OS."   H "We don't believe there will be any more IT projects. There will only beH business projects that have IT components," Denzel says. "We want you toJ think of Adaptive as the same way you are used to thinking of an operatingG system on a desktop. You can't buy an Adaptive Enterprise from HP - youV build one."v  G Based mostly on its OpenView platform, HP rolled out its new IT Service G Management (ITSM) software. Previously code-named Nimbus, the offeringseJ include ITSM Certification for Service Providers, Global Service Desk withH eSupport, HP Mission Critical Partnership, HP ITSM Best Practices for HPL OpenView Service Desk, Agility Assessment Services for IT Service Providers,K HP Systems Insight Manager, HP OpenView Management Integration Platform, HPEK OpenView Select Access, HP OpenView Operations, and HP Web Jetadmin version  7.5.  J HP currently spends $2.5 billion on Adaptive Enterprise-related R&D, whichE is about 60% of the company's total R&D budget. Of that $2.5 billion,N< Blackmore says 50% are investments in software capabilities.  G One of those investments is a proposal to acquire the assets of Persist:K Technologies. The Pleasanton, Calif.-based firm makes information lifecyclesF management (ILM) software designed for long-term storage and access ofC reference information. In addition to their technology, Denzel saysTK Persist's engineers would be transferred to HP's ranks. The company expectsn- the acquisition to be complete by year's end.b   HP 'Ahead of the Curve'y  H Analysts say HP is ahead of the curve in terms of vision, solutions, and
 architecture.   K "The adaptive infrastructure that HP has laid out is impressive and clearlym> leads the market place, as it is focused on the technology andK infrastructure components," says Forrester Senior Analyst Julie Giera. "The K strengths of the offering are the technical components. The weaknesses here D are the fact that HP - unlike IBM - has to rely on its partners likeL Deloitte, Bearing Point, and Accenture for the business process/applicationsH stuff." "In fact," Giera continues, "for HP's adaptive infrastructure toD really work, HP has to look at the entire customer environment - theI strategic goals of their customer, specific business problems, etc. - andfK then the technology. Partnerships are always a problem since a company liked> HP cannot ensure that one of its partners won't get acquired."  K The one thing Giera contends has changed is HP's focus. Up until two monthsfG ago, HP led the marketplace in infrastructure services and outsourcing,k9 leaving the majority of applications work to other firms.m  J "What happened, though, was that because of this almost exclusive focus onI infrastructure, HP was not even considered in some of the mega-deals thatp@ had shown up on the radar screen," Giera reports. "Customers areJ consolidating the service providers they use in the enterprise. The desireD is for fewer providers that can deliver broader ranges of services."  K While HP has traditionally fought IBM, Sun, BMC, and Computer Associates insK the on-demand computing space, the company will now have to deal with Dell.1B The Round Rock, Texas-based computer maker Tuesday unveiled server5 management tools that utilize new Microsoft software.e  I HP executive vice president Peter Blackmore called any comparison between D HP's and Dell's software management strategies "apples and oranges."  L "We have great respect for Dell, but they are not known for their managementG software," he said. "They are more of a distribution company. We have a-L complete systems approach that delivers Windows, Linux, and UNIX. If Dell is: working with Microsoft, they are only delivering Windows."  C To help fortify its position, HP said it has deepened its strategiclL partnership with German CRM powerhouse SAP. The collaboration is designed toH help joint customers manage their heterogeneous environments and will beB based on HP's IT Service Management Reference Model and managementJ solutions, and SAP IT Service & Application Management. Both organizationsJ report they will offer joint services to their customers. HP in particularH said it has 2,500 of its own professionals, including 500 ITEL certifiedJ experts, for servicing accounts and more than 60,000 people as part of its- partner base that are trained to lend a hand.d  G "We have only 16 strategic partners, of which SAP is a major one," says K Blackmore. "Some 48% of SAP software installations run on HP hardware. Thish+ is a deep and very important relationship."e  K HP is also strengthening its partnership with software vendors such as BEA,oB Cisco, Microsoft, Oracle, TIBCO, and webMethods to jointly deliver enterprise solutions.k  A HP has been methodically enhancing its Adaptive portfolio through-C acquisitions. Such was the case when the company recently purchased J Baltimore Enterprises and Talking Blocks, and is the case with the current- proposed acquisition of Persist Technologies.1  # Story courtesy of internetnews.com.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:19:31 -0500>* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Re: HP's Adaptive Enterprise.) Message-ID: <3FB295D0.E14EFEC9@istop.com>o   John Smith wrote:t > 1 > Just wondering how much of it will include VMS.d  N During the may presentation, VMS was excluded. So don't expect it to magicallyJ become part of this initiative (which is really just a glorified marketingF campaign for their Openview software and consulting for that software)  N > "We have great respect for Dell, but they are not known for their managementI > software," he said. "They are more of a distribution company. We have aoN > complete systems approach that delivers Windows, Linux, and UNIX. If Dell is< > working with Microsoft, they are only delivering Windows."  I This Blackmore statement is most interesting. If Microsoft is starting tooH provide stuff which competes head to head with OpenView, it will be mostW interesting to see how HP adapts its standard brown-nosing relationship with Microsoft.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:10:22 -0500g* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>% Subject: Re: HP's Adaptive Enterprises2 Message-ID: <_vadnRL6POx9IC-iRVn-hQ@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:uBvsb.38630$HoK.2519@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...    ...o  L > HP currently spends $2.5 billion on Adaptive Enterprise-related R&D, which1 > is about 60% of the company's total R&D budget.-  I My! $2.5 billion (out of a $4+ billion R&D total) on something they can't:H even adequately explain to customers.  But they couldn't afford a measly) $150 million to continue EV8 development.   J Guess that defines the difference between being 'strategic' (regardless of+ intrinsic merit) and just being worthwhile.e   ...     The weaknesses hereF > are the fact that HP - unlike IBM - has to rely on its partners like9 > Deloitte, Bearing Point, and Accenture for the businessi process/applications	 > stuff."m  I Gee - sort of like having to rely on Intel for its processor development. J And having to rely upon all kinds of other outsourcers for the rest of its> business.  Just how much of real substance will be left in HP?  A  "In fact," Giera continues, "for HP's adaptive infrastructure toeF > really work, HP has to look at the entire customer environment - theK > strategic goals of their customer, specific business problems, etc. - andbH > then the technology. Partnerships are always a problem since a company like@ > HP cannot ensure that one of its partners won't get acquired." >aF > The one thing Giera contends has changed is HP's focus. Up until two monthsI > ago, HP led the marketplace in infrastructure services and outsourcing,7; > leaving the majority of applications work to other firms.c  I Wow!  And in a mere 60 days Carly has turned the company around on a dimesI yet again!  It's spinning so fast now that there's hardly any discernibleu direction at all.o   > L > "What happened, though, was that because of this almost exclusive focus onK > infrastructure, HP was not even considered in some of the mega-deals thataB > had shown up on the radar screen," Giera reports. "Customers areL > consolidating the service providers they use in the enterprise. The desireF > is for fewer providers that can deliver broader ranges of services."  J So Carly waves her magic wand and the company instantaneously changes, eh?= Wonder how many serious customers will actually believe that.e  D Still, she's really good at convincing people that black is white...   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:18:12 GMTs9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>i Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultsr2 Message-ID: <oXtsb.8883$Nj6.3426@news.cpqcorp.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:botm5p$5h8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...- > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:; > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagef' > > news:3FB1D23A.85F28634@istop.com...l > >t > >>Greg Cagle wrote:s > >>G > >>>Carly is talking about the CPU - you know, the thing that actually9B > >>>runs code 8^). Chipsets and systems are the surrounding stuffF > >>>needed to build a complete computer. Do you really not know that? > >> > >>J > >>But if each manufacturer has motherboards with proprietary chipsets toI > >>compensate for IA64's bloatedness, how "industry standard" will  IA64  > >  > > systems  > >k > >>relaly be ?  > >> > >  > >uE > > You really don't understand HW or OS design.  The chipsets aren'tl designedK > > to "compensate" for anything.  Companies who design and build there ownn coreJ > > logic chips do so in the belief that they can provide some value addedJ > > either in performance, or functionality.  This generally has no effect onL > > application code - aside from perhaps that it runs faster/better, or the > > system is more reliable. > >d >oE > Umm not entirely true. JF was actually closer to the truth than you 6 > but then I guess we should have guessed that anyway. >_> > http://www.ece.rochester.edu/~albonesi/wced02/papers/eng.pdf >i= > Shows that Itanium discards 30% of the fetched instructions & > across a standard set of benchmarks. > / > In addition its code density is 1/2 of IA-32.- >- > This is Itanium bloat. >,= > And the bloat means that Itanium needs high performance low : > latency system interconnects in order to ensure that its6 > increase memory pressure doesn't impact performance. >E    I Ummm.  Your an idiot.  JF's current rant dejur had to do with proprietary L core logic chipsets and the possibility that this may make Itanium platforms, incompatable at the application or OS level.  D The quoted paper has to do with modifications to the Instruction SetJ Architecture to enhance performance and improve instruction density - bothI good things - heck, Alpha code is bloated compared to the VAX instructiondH set - they had different design tradeoffs.  Improvements to the IA64 ISAC that would allow better denisty is goodness - like adding byte/wordn# instructions to Alpha was goodness.n  E The proprietary core logic chipsets *aren't* there to "compensate forsL bloat" - they are there to provide competetive advantage.  A Intel referenceH based design is good, the HP design is better.  One design might provideG decent single CPU performance and perhaps up to 4 CPU SMP performance - K specialized core logic sets might allow for hundreds of CPUs, and terabytes 
 of memory.  < > Now if you don't believe me read the product specs for the7 > HP zx1 chipset. The designers and marketeers for thisa; > clearly do not agree with you and more embarassingly they-& > work for the same company as you do. >-  J You are an idiot.  Again, the reason to provide our own chipsets is purelyH for competetive advantage.  Why buy our HW versus Dell?  Ours is bigger,K faster, more reliable.  You get that by investing in the areas that get yougJ that bang-for-the-buck.  Again, an off-the-shelf core logic set is good (& cheap) ours is faster/better.m  ; > FSB is a standard Bus but HP and SGI for example with theo9 > zx1 and CHUB have discarded commodity FSB components to> > allow Itanium to perform.o >r  H You are an idiot.  We provide it to perform *better* to give us a betterG performance value at the same price points as off-the-shelf components.   = > Nor does this approach guarantee unaltered application codei> > SGI for example provide optimised MPI/MPT libraries designed> > to scale well on the Itanium->CHUB->NUMAlink architecture of: > the SGI Altix boxes. This runs on RH linux but is highly< > unlikely to work well if at all on an HP Itanium based box
 > running RH.d >:  H You are an idiot.  That has *nothing* to do with correctness.  I provideI altered code for Alpha to take advantage of byte/word instructions.  This L code will not work on previous versions of the Alpha architecture.  That hasE *nothing* to do with the core logic chipset.  We have OS code that is H optimized for NUMA on the Wildfire - this code is useless on every otherJ platform - and probably will make it run worse.  We could wire the OS in aK way to take advantage of a platform implementation -- and SGI may well wanthL to do that -- they do *NOT HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY* the infrastructure existsK for them to make dynamic runtime decisions on how to configure/load the OS.a THAT is what VMS will do.e  J But just because (for example) most UNIXes are built for the platform theyI run on (with a crippled generic installation kernel) -- doesn't mean theyaD *had* to be done that way *nor* is this ANY different than ANY other' architecture *including* IA32 or SPARC.u  K Anyone can write code that is non-portable if they want to.  Pretty much on D almost *any* system.  The OS may have good reasons to have optimizedF versions for specific platforms.  NONE of this is specific to Itanium.  	 > regardsr > Andrew Harrisonn >e  	 An idiot.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:12:40 +0000tO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultsh0 Message-ID: <botm5p$5h8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message % > news:3FB1D23A.85F28634@istop.com...  >  >>Greg Cagle wrote:o >>E >>>Carly is talking about the CPU - you know, the thing that actually @ >>>runs code 8^). Chipsets and systems are the surrounding stuffD >>>needed to build a complete computer. Do you really not know that? >> >>H >>But if each manufacturer has motherboards with proprietary chipsets toG >>compensate for IA64's bloatedness, how "industry standard" will  IA64e > 	 > systemsa > 
 >>relaly be ?d >> >  > L > You really don't understand HW or OS design.  The chipsets aren't designedN > to "compensate" for anything.  Companies who design and build there own coreH > logic chips do so in the belief that they can provide some value addedK > either in performance, or functionality.  This generally has no effect onfJ > application code - aside from perhaps that it runs faster/better, or the > system is more reliable. >   C Umm not entirely true. JF was actually closer to the truth than youd4 but then I guess we should have guessed that anyway.  < http://www.ece.rochester.edu/~albonesi/wced02/papers/eng.pdf  ; Shows that Itanium discards 30% of the fetched instructions $ across a standard set of benchmarks.  - In addition its code density is 1/2 of IA-32.-   This is Itanium bloat.  ; And the bloat means that Itanium needs high performance lowa8 latency system interconnects in order to ensure that its4 increase memory pressure doesn't impact performance.  : Now if you don't believe me read the product specs for the5 HP zx1 chipset. The designers and marketeers for thisa9 clearly do not agree with you and more embarassingly theya$ work for the same company as you do.  9 FSB is a standard Bus but HP and SGI for example with theP7 zx1 and CHUB have discarded commodity FSB components top allow Itanium to perform.   ; Nor does this approach guarantee unaltered application code < SGI for example provide optimised MPI/MPT libraries designed< to scale well on the Itanium->CHUB->NUMAlink architecture of8 the SGI Altix boxes. This runs on RH linux but is highly: unlikely to work well if at all on an HP Itanium based box running RH.o   regardsf Andrew Harrisonr    K >>Will differences in motherboards be binary compatible across the range ofwK >>proprietary IA64 systems, or will an OS compiled for an HP system with HP E >>proprietary chipset not work properly on someone else's system with  > 	 > someoneX >  >>else's proprietary chips ? >> >  > M > If the OS does the right thing, it should be transparent.  But why do *you*oM > care?  Are you writing OS code?  The PAL/SAL/EFI/ACPI/IPMI layers, plus allcN > the other specifications around the system ensure that a properly written OSN > (in the absence of bugs or other restrictions in the OS) will run on any IPF5 > system.  It might not take advantage of proprietaryt4 > extensions/features/capabilities that are present. >  > E >>Will each manufacturer who has its own proprietary support chipsets5 >  > require to > @ >>have their own compilers to take advantage of those chipsets ? >  > L > No.  We are talking about the chips that glue memory to the CPU, and IO toL > the CPU, and provide other value added features like an IOTLB.  These haveI > nothing to do with compilers or the CPU's instruction set architecture. >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:27:17 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>a Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultss0 Message-ID: <botu25$846$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>-= > wrote in message news:botm5p$5h8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...L >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>: >>>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message& >>>news:3FB1D23A.85F28634@istop.com... >>>a >>>  >>>>Greg Cagle wrote:r >>>> >>>>G >>>>>Carly is talking about the CPU - you know, the thing that actuallyoB >>>>>runs code 8^). Chipsets and systems are the surrounding stuffF >>>>>needed to build a complete computer. Do you really not know that? >>>> >>>>J >>>>But if each manufacturer has motherboards with proprietary chipsets toI >>>>compensate for IA64's bloatedness, how "industry standard" will  IA64@ >>>n
 >>>systems >>>  >>>e >>>>relaly be ?g >>>> >>>a >>>XD >>>You really don't understand HW or OS design.  The chipsets aren't > 
 > designed > J >>>to "compensate" for anything.  Companies who design and build there own >  > core > I >>>logic chips do so in the belief that they can provide some value added I >>>either in performance, or functionality.  This generally has no effectt >  > on > K >>>application code - aside from perhaps that it runs faster/better, or thel >>>system is more reliable.e >>>s >>E >>Umm not entirely true. JF was actually closer to the truth than youe6 >>but then I guess we should have guessed that anyway. >>> >>http://www.ece.rochester.edu/~albonesi/wced02/papers/eng.pdf >>= >>Shows that Itanium discards 30% of the fetched instructionsk& >>across a standard set of benchmarks. >>/ >>In addition its code density is 1/2 of IA-32.r >> >>This is Itanium bloat. >>= >>And the bloat means that Itanium needs high performance low : >>latency system interconnects in order to ensure that its6 >>increase memory pressure doesn't impact performance. >> >  >  > K > Ummm.  Your an idiot.  JF's current rant dejur had to do with proprietarytN > core logic chipsets and the possibility that this may make Itanium platforms. > incompatable at the application or OS level. >   ? And he was right all you need to do is compare the zx1 based HP 2 Linux boxes with the SGI CHUB based Altix systems.  @ Most people consider commodity platforms to be ones that support commodity apps (unmodified)r: commodity OS's (unmodified except for device type support) based on commodity hardware.  : They also expect this to be relatively low cost, commodity% and low cost are inextricably linked.   ) Itanium fails allmost all these criteria.t  You may have to modify you apps.$ The OS's are certainly not commodity: The hardware isn't either at least not from HP, Unisys and8 SGI the 3 main vendors producting large Itanium systems.  9 Nor are they relatively cheap in fact they are relativelye
 expensive.  < HP Itanium boxes are just like Sequents (except that Sequent; actually sold a few boxes). The Sequent NUMA-Q boxes lookedu: like commodity systems at a 30,000 foot level, at 6 inches8 they were about as far from commodity as it was possible= to be despite having commodity processors an almost commodityl6 Intel Quad and an almost commodity interconnect (SCI).  < The almost commodity bits of the system were the things that, stopped MS sipporting them properly etc etc.  F > The quoted paper has to do with modifications to the Instruction SetL > Architecture to enhance performance and improve instruction density - bothK > good things - heck, Alpha code is bloated compared to the VAX instructionmJ > set - they had different design tradeoffs.  Improvements to the IA64 ISAE > that would allow better denisty is goodness - like adding byte/word % > instructions to Alpha was goodness.  >   B Yup it did but the paper was written in response to a real problemC (why write it otherwise). Modifying the ISA to improve code densitytF would improve the problem in the mean time we have zx1 etc rather than commodity FSB components.   B Who else uses zx1 apart from HP who else uses GHUB apart from SGI.  = Go look at a DL380 it uses an off the shelf ServerWorks GC-LE ; chipset its the same chipset that Dell use in the Poweredgen 2650.c  ; Ditto for the DL580 it uses the GC-HE as does the Dell 6650 9 something like RH linux or Windows will run unmodified one	 each box.e    G > The proprietary core logic chipsets *aren't* there to "compensate fornN > bloat" - they are there to provide competetive advantage.  A Intel referenceJ > based design is good, the HP design is better.  One design might provideI > decent single CPU performance and perhaps up to 4 CPU SMP performance -gM > specialized core logic sets might allow for hundreds of CPUs, and terabytese > of memory. >   ( So you havn't read your zx1 datasheets !   > < >>Now if you don't believe me read the product specs for the7 >>HP zx1 chipset. The designers and marketeers for thisD; >>clearly do not agree with you and more embarassingly theye& >>work for the same company as you do. >> >  > L > You are an idiot.  Again, the reason to provide our own chipsets is purelyJ > for competetive advantage.  Why buy our HW versus Dell?  Ours is bigger,M > faster, more reliable.  You get that by investing in the areas that get you-L > that bang-for-the-buck.  Again, an off-the-shelf core logic set is good (& > cheap) ours is faster/better.@ >   5 Now you are beginning to sound like a cross between a % sales critter and a marketing person.7 > ; >>FSB is a standard Bus but HP and SGI for example with the.9 >>zx1 and CHUB have discarded commodity FSB components toa >>allow Itanium to perform.o >> >  > J > You are an idiot.  We provide it to perform *better* to give us a betterI > performance value at the same price points as off-the-shelf components.o >  > = >>Nor does this approach guarantee unaltered application code > >>SGI for example provide optimised MPI/MPT libraries designed> >>to scale well on the Itanium->CHUB->NUMAlink architecture of: >>the SGI Altix boxes. This runs on RH linux but is highly< >>unlikely to work well if at all on an HP Itanium based box
 >>running RH.r >> >  > J > You are an idiot.  That has *nothing* to do with correctness.  I provideK > altered code for Alpha to take advantage of byte/word instructions.  This/N > code will not work on previous versions of the Alpha architecture.  That hasG > *nothing* to do with the core logic chipset.  We have OS code that istJ > optimized for NUMA on the Wildfire - this code is useless on every otherL > platform - and probably will make it run worse.  We could wire the OS in aM > way to take advantage of a platform implementation -- and SGI may well wantVN > to do that -- they do *NOT HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY* the infrastructure existsM > for them to make dynamic runtime decisions on how to configure/load the OS.E > THAT is what VMS will do.S >     L > But just because (for example) most UNIXes are built for the platform theyK > run on (with a crippled generic installation kernel) -- doesn't mean theyiF > *had* to be done that way *nor* is this ANY different than ANY other) > architecture *including* IA32 or SPARC.M >   ? Umm do you have any idea how a UNIX kernel works, ever heard ofy dynamic kernels.  M > Anyone can write code that is non-portable if they want to.  Pretty much on F > almost *any* system.  The OS may have good reasons to have optimizedH > versions for specific platforms.  NONE of this is specific to Itanium. >   H Ohh but it is because Itanium presents a veneer of "standards" which the4 individual developers ignore (because they have to).  C I guess it takes an idiot to appear to know one Freddy and you justa proved that.   Regards  Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:42:56 -0500t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultsr( Message-ID: <3FB28D3F.26EDB22@istop.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > either in performance, or functionality.  This generally has no effect onsJ > application code - aside from perhaps that it runs faster/better, or the > system is more reliable.  N > (in the absence of bugs or other restrictions in the OS) will run on any IPF5 > system.  It might not take advantage of proprietaryt4 > extensions/features/capabilities that are present.    J If IA64's performance is marginal compared to Power, Sparc and 8086, won'tJ there be a lot fo incentive to get the compilers to make full use of those= speed-increasing features to make your products competitive ?h  I If, in order to stay "neutral", VMS does not make use of HP's proprietary<N speed acceleration, won't that put VMS at a big disadvantage compared to HP-UXG which is likely to be targetted to make use of those proprietary bits ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:49:45 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results ) Message-ID: <3FB28ED9.D66C8237@istop.com>    jlsue wrote:K > Your comparison, in other words, is really just not valid - or, to put it5L > another way, is only valid if you significantly restrict your view to only > one part of our business.o  N HP's broken promises stain "HP" as a whole, no matter if some of its divisionsL still have some dignity or not. And from what I have heard, customer support0 under HP is not as high as it was under Digital.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 14:10:42 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)q Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 3 Message-ID: <aYyoS9JZV$qu@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  U In article <3FB28D3F.26EDB22@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:f > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L >> either in performance, or functionality.  This generally has no effect onK >> application code - aside from perhaps that it runs faster/better, or the- >> system is more reliable.  > O >> (in the absence of bugs or other restrictions in the OS) will run on any IPF-6 >> system.  It might not take advantage of proprietary5 >> extensions/features/capabilities that are present.g >  > E > If IA64's performance is marginal compared to Power, Sparc and 8086o  A 	Well, IA64 certainly isn't marginal compared to SPARC.  SPARC isRD 	trailing everyone in performance and have been for sometime.  SPARCH 	has an embarassing lack of SPEC CPU submissions and tpc.org submissionsD 	of late.  In fact, Fujitsu just published a 64 processor SPARC tpmCG 	number, the first SPARC tpmC number in quite sometime.  It comes in atP- 	about 1/2 the current IA64 SuperDome number.r   				Robs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:36:01 +0800e, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is- Message-ID: <87u159xtum.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  , JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  E > For a big application with multiple directories, I would agree. But E > for a simple utility that only needs access to one or two files andeD > which isn't widely used, is it really good to force the definitionC > of a systemwide logical at system startup just so that this small. > utility could function ?  A Then put the damm thing in sys$system, and put the other files in-D sys$<what fits>, just as you would expect! And don't make it hard to
 use logicals!-   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.:@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:51:00 GMTZ' From: "Stuart Friedman" <stu@nospam.na>e9 Subject: Re: London to be disrupted next week by JF Mezei,? Message-ID: <EcDsb.9377$P%1.8578411@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>e  I Unless we are referring to London Ontario, what does this post have to dot
 with FIDO?   Stun  5 "More Mezei Doozies" <mezei@isa.nut> wrote in message 3 news:60M132WE37937.7559143519@Gilgamesh-frog.org...e6 > Gregory Morrow <gregory.morrow@earthlink.net> wrote: >s > >u > >More Mezei News wrote:  > > K > >> JF Mezei, in yet another psychotic rant in his "Racoon" series, put onv his E > >> "Educated Raccoon" <E.Raccoon@wilderness.org> mask and bellowed:  > >>J > >> >Some idiot head of a police state will be visiting London next week, > >alongK > >> >with his secret police and some 700 staff members to protect him from< > >attacks.CF > >> >He asked for all of central london closed, but the UK has so far refused.I > >> >Nevertheless, one should expect major disruptions to traffic as the  idioti= > >> >parades around in his convoy of bulletproof limousines.  > >> > >> *snip*r > >> > >> Off your meds again, JF?t > >o > >hI > >Uh oh!  I thought I kinda recognized JF's style in these "racoon" [sp]e	 > >posts!t > I > Yep, it's amazing how easy it is to troll the idiots in rec.travel.air.eE > And how much they enjoy it!  Mezei spends months trolling under theyK > "colorful" aliases below and they just eat it up (no pun).  When Mezei iscC > exposed he quickly changes to his "Raccoon" schtick, still easily.J > recognizable by his foaming-at-the-mouth anti-US vitriol, and they can'tJ > get enough of it.  Is there a more easily trollable bunch of idiots that	 > this???s >e > --
 > Appendix >t$ > Mezei's Colorful Trolling Aliases: >n& > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>' > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>- > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>' > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>J$ > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>& > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>o) > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> $ > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>.) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>e* > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>( > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>! > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>k) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>i' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>l > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>a# > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>a% > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>l" > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>h! > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>t& > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>,# > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>i" > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>a' > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> & > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> ( > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>* > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> ' > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>k( > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>e) > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>g* > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>s) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>c' > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> & > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>$ > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>* > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>' > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>w$ > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>' > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>l( > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>) > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>s+ > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>s) > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>s$ > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>% > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>l > etc. >o   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 13:57:47 -04007 From: "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu>r& Subject: Mail Utility Routines problem. Message-ID: <3fb282ab@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>  F How does one set the new mail count?  I have a number of programs thatD manipulate mail files for sundry purposes, and I've never managed toH set the new mail count once I've finished moving/deleting mail messages.H This means that when I go into MAIL in an account that runs one of theseF programs, I have to READ/NEW to reset the counter.  I'd obviously like" to get this working automatically.  D Relevant bits of code from one of these programs (running on V7.2-1)5 looks like this (with two lines of debugging output):e  ; ! Declarations (allow up to 10 input and output list items)a   STRUCTURE/ItemList/d   INTEGER*2 BLen   INTEGER*2 Code   INTEGER :: BufAdrt   INTEGER :: RetLenAdr
 END STRUCTUREt  / RECORD/ItemList/InList(10),OutList(10),NullListp   NullList.Code = 0  NullList.BLen = 0. NullList.BufAdr = 0a NullList.RetLenAdr = 0   ! Begin USER context   UserContext = 0s7 Status = MAIL$User_Begin(UserContext,NullList,NullList)t   <snip>  ! IF (NUMMESS .NE. NUMNEWMESS) THENn; PRINT *,"Setting count of new messages",NUMNEWMESS,USERNAMEa&   InList(1).Code = MAIL$_USER_USERNAME%   InList(1).BLen = LEN_TRIM(USERNAME) #   InList(1).BufAdr = %LOC(USERNAME)u   InList(1).RetLenAdr = 0 .   InList(2).Code = MAIL$_USER_SET_NEW_MESSAGES   InList(2).BLen = 4%   InList(2).BufAdr = %LOC(NUMNEWMESS)a   InList(2).RetLenAdr = 0C   InList(3) = NullList:   Status = MAIL$User_Set_Info(UserContext,InList,NullList)# PRINT *,"Set count of new messages"  ENDIF     ' Attempting to run the program produces:t  
 $ antispam Cleaning MAIL file of SPAM...e Number of new messages =      1o  * Number of probable SPAM messages   =     1* Number of possible SPAM messages   =     0* Number of messages left in NEWMAIL =     0. Setting count of new messages           0 TEMP& %MAIL-E-INVITMLEN, invalid item length/ %TRACE-E-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsdJ   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PCO  MAILSHR                                    0 000000000004CD80 000000007B6A4D80aO  MAILSHR                                    0 000000000003AD48 000000007B692D48cO  ANTISPAM_EV67  ANTISPAM  ANTISPAM       1123 00000000000020AC 00000000000320ACyO                                             0 FFFFFFFF8C4173F4 FFFFFFFF8C4173F4e Set count of new messagese     You have 1 new message.u  
 MAIL> dir/newb" %MAIL-W-NONEWMAIL, no new messages  H   The problem seems to be the input items declaring the new value of theK new mail count.  If I comment out those lines and set InList(2) = NullList,eG I don't get an error message (but of course, the new mail count doesn'trC then change).  The error message appears if I remove the InList(1),0< make the declaration of the new mail count InList(1) and setD InList(2) = NullList, using the default of modifying the user record$ associated with the calling process.  E   Comparing the above code to the documentation on MAIL$USER_SET_INFOrC ("Mail Utility Routine MAIL-106 to MAIL-110), I don't see where theoF problem is.  In particular, I don't see what the "invalid item length"E error is referring to.  A search of the DejaNews archive and a GoogleAD search turned up nothing, so I'm probably missing something bleedin' obvious.  $   Any pointers would be appreciated.     -- iH ------------------------------------------------------------------------H Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.+ Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet CenterqH gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html7 OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systems0   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2003 21:36:47 -0800- From: bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede)3 Subject: Main memory for galaxyo< Message-ID: <8a3b834.0311122136.7a610478@posting.google.com>   Hi,S  B      Is there a way to findout the Main memory for the VMS machineD implementing galaxy architecture. On normal systems we can use "show# memory/all" to get the main memory.e   Rgds,e Bhushane   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 00:30:58 +01009 From: Mezei's Doozie Erskine <alanerskine@mezeidoozie.au>"' Subject: Re: Mezei's Rabid Alan Erskinen9 Message-ID: <G25KNVU637938.0207060185@Gilgamesh-frog.org>v  1 Alan Erskine <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> wrote:i  & >How do you block this fuckwit/coward?2 >I've tried to block giglamesh and it won't block. > # >By the way, if you haven't got the    *snip rest of rabid rant*h  G And who is "Alan Erskine"?  A quick search reveals this gem.  Is it anyaK surprise that a raving lunatic like this would turn up to support the likes- of Mezei? :    About Alan Erskine 2   alanerskine@optusnet.com.aul  G Alan Erskine is a well known Australian netkook, psychopath, and coward_J who lives in Melbourne.  He usually stalks and harasses the posters of theK sci.space groups, although he is known to make excursions into a wide range K of other groups for the purposes of trolling and stalking and harassing the K participants there.  He is currently under investigation by the authoritiesl= in Australia.  If you fall victim to his frequent attacks and I stalking/harassment campaigns, like so many in the sci.space groups have,19 notify abuse@optusnet.com.au .  This psycho is dangerous.n  H Most sane participants have been forced to killfile him for his frequentJ violent outbursts at posters and his unrelenting attacks.  Some are taking legal action against him.   G Here are just a few of his victims.  He has been stalking and harrasingtF Scott and Betty Grissom relentlessly.  Scott Grissom is the son of GusG Grissom, the second American in space, who died in an Apollo 1 trainingu3 exercise fire, and Betty Grissom, 75, is his widow.s  E Alan has also been waging long-time stalking and harassment campaignsfJ against other well-known members of the space community, including RichardG Katz of NASA, John Maxson, and his sons Paul and Daniel Maxson.  He haslA even gone so far as to threaten to kill the entire Maxson family.n  H He has been known to stalk his victims anonymously and via sock puppets,J showing what a coward he is.  Furthermore, he likes to challenge people toF fights, telling them to come to Melbourne and look him up in the phoneH book, while having admitted elsewhere that he is not listed in the phone book.  Coward!  H Alan is an enemy of freedom of speech and hates remailers, which serve aJ useful and necessary purpose.  He has resorted to impersonating others andK even himself through remailers in an effort to discredit remailers and make K it look like others were attacking him through them.  He regularly bombards J remailer operators with hysterical complaints and threats and floods their
 mailboxes.  K Alan is currently on one of his psychotic crusades, this time to get peoplevI to killfile posts from remailers in order to prevent word of his misdeedseI from getting out.  Alan is a Nazi, he wants to be able to say whatever hecG wants about others but doesn't want anyone to mention him.  He wants touF express himself freely but wants to shut others up and, not only that,J wants others to do as he says, read only the messages he approves of, etc.D He wants to police, rule, and control newsgroups and people like the% perfect little jackbooted Nazi he is.   D Alan is not just content to harass his victims in the newsgroups, heJ usually also stalks them via email.  If you find yourself on the receivingD end of Alan's famous psychotic emails, contact abuse@optusnet.com.auB immediately, as well as the law enforcement agencies in Melbourne,B Australia.  This psycho is very violent.  Do not attempt to reasonD with him yourself, many others have tried and he does not respond to+ reason.  Let the authorities deal with him.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:51:31 -0500 c From: "love_to_fake_emails@because_im_an_asshat.com" <love_to_fake_emails@because_im_an_asshat.com>h' Subject: Re: Mezei's Rabid Alan Erskine : Message-ID: <9Izsb.31680$xI2.572680@news20.bellglobal.com>  G Yawn. Scratch. Burp. wow so you're a geeky asshole who can use google.  G Congratu farking lations.  Why don't you out yourself so we can google 'I you? I don't like Metzeis rants any more than you do, but you've crossed u that line into annoying.> Keep it in your own group, or at least in your own pants... =)         Mezei's Doozie Erskine wrote:u  3 > Alan Erskine <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> wrote:l >  > ' >>How do you block this fuckwit/coward?s3 >>I've tried to block giglamesh and it won't block.d >>$ >>By the way, if you haven't got the >  >  > *snip rest of rabid rant*  > I > And who is "Alan Erskine"?  A quick search reveals this gem.  Is it anyeM > surprise that a raving lunatic like this would turn up to support the likes 
 > of Mezei? :i >  > About Alan Erskine a >  > alanerskine@optusnet.com.aua > I > Alan Erskine is a well known Australian netkook, psychopath, and coward L > who lives in Melbourne.  He usually stalks and harasses the posters of theM > sci.space groups, although he is known to make excursions into a wide rangeiM > of other groups for the purposes of trolling and stalking and harassing thetM > participants there.  He is currently under investigation by the authoritiesa? > in Australia.  If you fall victim to his frequent attacks and.K > stalking/harassment campaigns, like so many in the sci.space groups have,h; > notify abuse@optusnet.com.au .  This psycho is dangerous.t > J > Most sane participants have been forced to killfile him for his frequentL > violent outbursts at posters and his unrelenting attacks.  Some are taking > legal action against him.i > I > Here are just a few of his victims.  He has been stalking and harrasing H > Scott and Betty Grissom relentlessly.  Scott Grissom is the son of GusI > Grissom, the second American in space, who died in an Apollo 1 traininge5 > exercise fire, and Betty Grissom, 75, is his widow.e > G > Alan has also been waging long-time stalking and harassment campaigns L > against other well-known members of the space community, including RichardI > Katz of NASA, John Maxson, and his sons Paul and Daniel Maxson.  He hastC > even gone so far as to threaten to kill the entire Maxson family.i > J > He has been known to stalk his victims anonymously and via sock puppets,L > showing what a coward he is.  Furthermore, he likes to challenge people toH > fights, telling them to come to Melbourne and look him up in the phoneJ > book, while having admitted elsewhere that he is not listed in the phone > book.  Coward! > J > Alan is an enemy of freedom of speech and hates remailers, which serve aL > useful and necessary purpose.  He has resorted to impersonating others andM > even himself through remailers in an effort to discredit remailers and makenM > it look like others were attacking him through them.  He regularly bombards L > remailer operators with hysterical complaints and threats and floods their > mailboxes. > M > Alan is currently on one of his psychotic crusades, this time to get peopleiK > to killfile posts from remailers in order to prevent word of his misdeedswK > from getting out.  Alan is a Nazi, he wants to be able to say whatever heiI > wants about others but doesn't want anyone to mention him.  He wants toPH > express himself freely but wants to shut others up and, not only that,L > wants others to do as he says, read only the messages he approves of, etc.F > He wants to police, rule, and control newsgroups and people like the' > perfect little jackbooted Nazi he is.h > F > Alan is not just content to harass his victims in the newsgroups, heL > usually also stalks them via email.  If you find yourself on the receivingF > end of Alan's famous psychotic emails, contact abuse@optusnet.com.auD > immediately, as well as the law enforcement agencies in Melbourne,D > Australia.  This psycho is very violent.  Do not attempt to reasonF > with him yourself, many others have tried and he does not respond to- > reason.  Let the authorities deal with him.e >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:51:05 +1100 2 From: "Alan Erskine" <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au>" Subject: Re: Mezei's Rabid Raccoon< Message-ID: <3fb2ab47$0$14048$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>  % How do you block this fuckwit/coward?e1 I've tried to block giglamesh and it won't block.o  J By the way, if you haven't got the courage to say things in your own name,G with a valid email addy, then you don't have the right to say anything.   E Personally,  I don't care what you think of JF Mezei, just don't keep-9 harping on it in these groups.  This group in the headers0E (comp.os.vms,can.internet) is probably the originating group for thisa coward.m -- Alan Erskine alanterskine(at)hotmail.com    Iraq, America's new Vietnam.  5 "More Mezei Doozies" <mezei@isa.nut> wrote in messagem3 news:34TORGPJ37937.7559143519@Gilgamesh-frog.org...2 > For the archives :-) >r+ > Message-ID: <3FB20F2C.58EB60B9@istop.com>u, > From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) > X-Accept-Language: enn > MIME-Version: 1.0l > Newsgroups: rec.travel.air; > Subject: Re: London to be disrupted next week by JF Mezeia0 > References: <3FB1B4FA.9015D4F9@wilderness.org>/ > <0QDM37KL37937.4529976852@Gilgamesh-frog.org> , > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii! > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt$ > X-Forwarded: by - (DeleGate/8.5.4) > Lines: 17 ' > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:46:01 -0500s" > NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.230.46.146% > X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.catK > X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1068633807 64.230.46.146 (Wed, 12 Nov 2003. > 05:43:27 EST)h2 > NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:43:27 EST > Organization: Bell Sympatico >r > X-No-Archive: Yese >l > More Mezei News wrote: > >tJ > > JF Mezei, in yet another psychotic rant in his "Racoon" series, put on hisvD > > "Educated Raccoon" <E.Raccoon@wilderness.org> mask and bellowed: >a >s > Dear anonymous asshole,i >dJ > I have no idea what I have done to traumatize you to such an extent that > younF > have to forge these messages. You have no business crossposting your
 > idiociesE > to serious newsgroups. You have succeeded in driving me out of thisr > newsgroup,A > find some other person to hound if that is what you get off on.f >aL > If you have personal beef against me, then take it privately via email and> > don't use an anonymous remailer. Otherwise shut the fuck up. >w' >                 -----====+++====-----k >r0 > Message-ID: <3FB1B4FA.9015D4F9@wilderness.org>3 > From: Educated Raccoon <E.Raccoon@wilderness.org>B, > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) > X-Accept-Language: en  > MIME-Version: 1.0r > Newsgroups: rec.travel.air+ > Subject: London to be disrupted next weeke, > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii! > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite$ > X-Forwarded: by - (DeleGate/8.5.4) > Lines: 22x' > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:20:46 -0500a" > NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.230.46.146% > X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.carK > X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1068610720 64.230.46.146 (Tue, 11 Nov 2003e > 23:18:40 EST)r2 > NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:18:40 EST > Organization: Bell Sympatico > L > Some idiot head of a police state will be visiting London next week, alongG > with his secret police and some 700 staff members to protect him fromo
 > attacks.K > He asked for all of central london closed, but the UK has so far refused.IK > Nevertheless, one should expect major disruptions to traffic as the idiotsG > parades around in his convoy of bulletproof limousines.  Some 5000 UKcI > policemen will be used to protect protestors from the 700 strong secrete > policeI > who will be quick on the trigger, knowing just how hostile the world isl > towards this idiot leader. >nL > It is not yet known if the idiot will land his heavy 747 at Heathrow , and > ifD > so, how much of a disruption to the whole airport this will cause. > HopefullyhL > that 747, as well as all the cargo planes carrying his limos etc will land > at > some air force base. >a > K > Why does the idiot insist on disrupting other countries with his unwanted H > visits ?  When he is one of the most hated persons in the world, and a > major K > target for terrorists after he's invaded a country, the idiot should stayc > at > home.R >IJ > This unwanted visit to the UK will cost UK taxpayers a lot of money, and > thegA > disruptions to the city will cost UK businesses a lot of money._ >n   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2003 06:08:22 GMT) From: Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> " Subject: Re: Mezei's Rabid Raccoon: Message-ID: <bov74l$1i3ci6$1@ID-146822.news.uni-berlin.de>  V On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:51:05 +1100, Alan Erskine, <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> wrote:( >  How do you block this fuckwit/coward?4 >  I've tried to block giglamesh and it won't block.  B    Block alt.net.  The result is lossless compression of your newsD spool.  I've had it blocked on news.admin.net-abuse.email for a longD time.  I've just gone and made that block global on my account.  For: people using slrn, the incantation in the score file is...   [*]  Score:: =-9999         Path: .alt.net   -- l# Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>T) Email users are divided into two classes;t) 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking  2) Those who wish they did   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:20:42 GMTs6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus1 Message-ID: <uCwsb.12228$W7.10615@news.chello.at>r  n In article <xcrsb.8863$b76.8006@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:! >VMS will be supporting OpenView.o  . Running an agent or running the node manager ?   -- . Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialistf E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:06:42 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: OpenVMS and HP NimbusH Message-ID: <62zsb.40602$HoK.12642@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:F > In article <xcrsb.8863$b76.8006@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"+ > <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:e# >> VMS will be supporting OpenView.h >t0 > Running an agent or running the node manager ?    > Support is not strategic unless it's running the node manager.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:28:10 GMTi6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: OpenVMS and HP Nimbus0 Message-ID: <emzsb.16267$W7.4266@news.chello.at>  n In article <62zsb.40602$HoK.12642@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: q >> In article <xcrsb.8863$b76.8006@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:t$ >>> VMS will be supporting OpenView. >>1 >> Running an agent or running the node manager ?s >o? >Support is not strategic unless it's running the node manager.n  ) Indeed. And this is the reason why I ask.IM I don't expect the node manager to ever run on OpenVMS (but I still hope, so)oC so I'd like to ask Fred, what the motivation for his statement was.00 Loosing reputation or announncing secret plans ?   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialists E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:59:33 -0500e( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com># Subject: Re: Oracle RDB and $statusi0 Message-ID: <00A28CE8.561D669F.25@tachysoft.com>  / >From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  >Subject: Oracle RDB and $status! >Date: 12 Nov 2003 10:46:36 -0800r' >Organization: http://groups.google.com 
 >Lines: 11 >w- >Any idea when this problem will be solved ? w/ >RDB still not changing the $status at the end  , >of the operations. I will need to integrate& >the RMU/Backup with BMC Control-M and* > there is no way for checking the status.4 >Any other symbol or logical name could be defined ?    D Ah yes, Oracle, my second favorite software company after billyware.  N The way I get around this in tapesys is to scan sys$error for fatal messages. O Forunately, rmu is running as a subprocess of sysbak, so sys$error is a mailbox , and sysbak is scanning it for other reasons.  I When this happened to me, the error was "%RMS-F-EXENQLM, exceeded enqueuewL quota", though the final return code for the process was success.  So I lookJ for this and use rms$_exenqlm as the final status no matter what rmu says.  M Not terribly efficient, but better than having customers blaming *us* for theb unreported errors.   WayneiO =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O ===============================================================================tH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:43:26 -0600v/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: PlanetLab3 Message-ID: <3FB28D5E.8CD9476D@applied-synergy.com>r   http://www.planet-lab.org/  ( This looks like an interesting project.   : Since HP is supporting this and one of the goals is a moreB reliable/secure Internet, does any one know if VMS nodes are being considered for this project?  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:24:37 +0800t, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: The old DEC complex. - Message-ID: <87y8ulxudm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  - Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> writes:p  E > The facilities I know of were fine.  I worked in (and still do) ZKO>@ > (Spit Brook Road, Nashua) and it has been maintained well.  HPC > hasn't done a lot to it, but it is being kept up - especially them? > landscaping outside which is well cared for.  Walls have been C > repainted, new carpet laid in places, etc.  Some parts look a bitAA > more worn than others, but not signfiicantly so. ZKO1 is now 23l > years old.   Have they changed the barcode?   -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.d@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:54:58 +0100m" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>! Subject: Re: The old DEC complex.V4 Message-ID: <3fb29014$0$13298$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Paul Repacholi wrote:r  / > Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> writes:i >  > E >>The facilities I know of were fine.  I worked in (and still do) ZKO @ >>(Spit Brook Road, Nashua) and it has been maintained well.  HPC >>hasn't done a lot to it, but it is being kept up - especially thes? >>landscaping outside which is well cared for.  Walls have beentC >>repainted, new carpet laid in places, etc.  Some parts look a bitsA >>more worn than others, but not signfiicantly so. ZKO1 is now 23r >>years old. >  >   > Have they changed the barcode?   The one which reads    Digital Softwa Reengineering?  :-)t   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:17:20 -0500s+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>d! Subject: Re: The old DEC complex.e8 Message-ID: <7t45rvc82merugolm6ouilts14k9s8ukj9@4ax.com>  J On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:24:37 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:   >Have they changed the barcode?e  ' It changed once, at least 10 years ago.r   Initially, it read:   
 digitalsoftwaa
 reengineeringn   Now it reads (approximately)   customerswin
 whenwedelivera  I The background color also changed from red-orange to gray, as did the VMSl) binders.  ("Binders?  What are binders?")s  @ Needless to say, the rewording was none too popular around here.  I The biggest disappointment, to me anyway, was the time capsule.  This wassJ buried in the walkway outside the entrance to ZK1 in 1980, to be opened inL 1996.  It contained a bunch of things donated by various engineering groups,K including a microfiche copy of VMS 2.0 and a copy of "CPU Wars" (donated by J yours truly).  Unfortunately, the "capsule" was not constructed nor sealedL well, and the typical freeze-thaw cycle of New Hampshire winters cracked theI container and water damaged all the contents.  This was discovered during-0 repair of the walkway sometime in the early 90s.   Steve9   Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:00:58 +0100  From: "B.Eckstein" <eck@ivu.de>i% Subject: Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!!a- Message-ID: <botsgq$360$1@swifty.westend.com>   - Bob Koehler schrub im Jahre 12.11.2003 15:04:   X > In article <3FB1B125.DF92CFDD@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:P >> For all those who had been convinced that VAX was out of production, the 6130T >> has been relaunched. It is available in 3 variations, the 6130, 6130S and 6130SX. >>   >> Full details at: / >> http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/products/6130.htm0 > B >    I new they were going to have to have a water handling system >    eventually.  3 So they should name this one 10000 or Aquarius? ;-)g   -- nG B.Eckstein, eck@ivu.de         Cheap, Fast, Good - pick any two of themm9 Die FAQ zu de.comp.hardware.netzwerke: http://how.to/dchnnG Mozilla-Tips: http://mozilla-anleitung.de/ http://www.holgermetzger.de/d  D "Auch wenn ich die Funktionsweise dieser Konsole nicht kenne, glaube# ich nicht, dass sie rauchen sollte"n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:02:09 +0100. From: "B.Eckstein" <eck@ivu.de>p% Subject: Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!!b- Message-ID: <botsj1$360$2@swifty.westend.com>   - Bob Koehler schrub im Jahre 12.11.2003 18:56:a  Q > In article <bosmuk$rp8$2@swifty.westend.com>, "B.Eckstein" <eck@ivu.de> writes:l >> v- >> Hm, only one processor and no upgrades :-(eI >> And if the 6130 is 32bits, is 6130sx only 16Bits? And manf'd by Intel?i > < >    Judging by the color, I'd expect them all to be 36 bit.  = Jep. But consequence is 6130sx would be 18bit. Hm, strange...e   -- oG B.Eckstein, eck@ivu.de         Cheap, Fast, Good - pick any two of them 9 Die FAQ zu de.comp.hardware.netzwerke: http://how.to/dchn:G Mozilla-Tips: http://mozilla-anleitung.de/ http://www.holgermetzger.de/I  D "Auch wenn ich die Funktionsweise dieser Konsole nicht kenne, glaube# ich nicht, dass sie rauchen sollte"s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:51:37 +0100u From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>% Subject: Re: VAX 6130 relaunched !!!! 2 Message-ID: <bou37c$49d$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  N If I remember correctly they had a big poster of one of these machines in the ? demo computerroom at the Dutch Digital headquarters in Utrecht.d  Q I once send the service manual to our Dec/Compaq/HP technicians in case they had u to repair one.     JF Mezei wrote: O > For all those who had been convinced that VAX was out of production, the 6130dS > has been relaunched. It is available in 3 variations, the 6130, 6130S and 6130SX.  >  > Full details at:. > http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/products/6130.htm > . > For now, these are only available in the UK.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:43:08 -0800l" From: Brad Hughes <brad@tgsmc.com>$ Subject: Re: VMS Perl Question re LF( Message-ID: <3FB2A96C.3030809@tgsmc.com>   TMTOWTDI  G 1) Since your file is keyed, look for VMS::IndexedFile on your friendly7/     neighborhood CPAN and read the file by key;e  2 2) Set C< $/ = \4096; > before entering the while;  4 3) Use sysopen and sysread instead of open and <IN>;   brad   Jim McCullars wrote:   > Greetings: > J >    I'm having a problem with Perl 5.004_04 running on our VMS host.  In J > searching Google, I can see that others appear to have similar problems,K > but I was unable to find a solution.  Hopefully someone can offer advice.> > K >    I am having to use perl to read and process some production data filesoG > that were produced by COBOL and have some COMP and COMP-3 fields.  OnoJ > occasion, a value of x'0D' (LF) may appear in one of those fields.  WhenK > that happens, the line that I get returned will be truncated.  I am doingUH > a normal OPEN and while (<IN>) to get the lines.  A dir/full shows the > following attributes:  > 0 > Organization:  Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key) >                              In 2 areas  > Shelved state:      Online" > Caching attribute:  WritethroughO > File attributes:    Allocation: 172278, Extend: 43056, Maximum bucket size: 9 > >                     Global buffer count: 0, No version limit) >                     Contiguous best try J > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 4096 bytes, longest 0 bytes6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None > I >    I tried using "binmode IN;" but that seemed to append lines together F > (in other words, VMS reports that file has 64 lines, but when I used > binmode, I read 21 lines). > I >    Can anyone offer advice as to how I can read these files?  Thanks...  >  > Jim McCullarsl% > University of Alabama in Huntsvillen >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:21:23 +0100t From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: VMS Perl Question re LF2 Message-ID: <bou4vi$t91$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  7 Yep, these are the joys of Open Source Software / Unix.   P Be aware that almost *all* of these Open Source products like to read Stream-LF Q files. The reason is simple, they are written in C, and do *not* use RMS to read iN and write files. Instead they use C/Unix style I/O operations, and that means $ reading and writing Stream-LF files.  ) This is a typical example of such a file:P  3 REGISTRY.;1                   File ID:  (17058,1,0)y. Size:            2/32         Owner:    [MUNK]# Created:    18-JUN-2000 18:11:14.10 ( Revised:     7-JUL-2000 14:39:24.47 (16) Expires:    <None specified>  Backup:     <No backup recorded> Effective:  <None specified> Recording:  <None specified> Accessed:   <None specified> Attributes: <None specified> Modified:   <None specified>
 Linkcount:  1> File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughE File attributes:    Allocation: 32, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 %                      No version limit<C Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32767 bytesr4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:s Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None  P The longest record atribute is bogus. Since RMS is not used to write the files, Q there is no way to know how long the records actually are. They may be 10 bytes, TG or 100,000 bytes long. The way this is implemented in C is simple. The pP fileheader is set up with the maximum record size RMS supports, 32676 bytes. So I if you want to use Cobol for instance to read such a file, it can do so, iK regardless of the actual record size as long that is not bigger then 32676 aQ bytes. If you want to know the real max. record length, you will have to convert dO the file to a new version (without new record atributes !). The new fileheader w& will show the actual max. record size.  Q This also explains why Perl stumbles over the x'0D/lf values, it takes these for r end-of-record characters....  C I can't think of a way to avoid this, except not using COMP fields.l     Jim McCullars wrote: > Greetings: > J >    I'm having a problem with Perl 5.004_04 running on our VMS host.  In J > searching Google, I can see that others appear to have similar problems,K > but I was unable to find a solution.  Hopefully someone can offer advice.< > K >    I am having to use perl to read and process some production data files G > that were produced by COBOL and have some COMP and COMP-3 fields.  On?J > occasion, a value of x'0D' (LF) may appear in one of those fields.  WhenK > that happens, the line that I get returned will be truncated.  I am doinggH > a normal OPEN and while (<IN>) to get the lines.  A dir/full shows the > following attributes:  > 0 > Organization:  Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key) >                              In 2 areasa > Shelved state:      Online" > Caching attribute:  WritethroughO > File attributes:    Allocation: 172278, Extend: 43056, Maximum bucket size: 9r> >                     Global buffer count: 0, No version limit) >                     Contiguous best try J > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 4096 bytes, longest 0 bytes6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None > I >    I tried using "binmode IN;" but that seemed to append lines togethersF > (in other words, VMS reports that file has 64 lines, but when I used > binmode, I read 21 lines). > I >    Can anyone offer advice as to how I can read these files?  Thanks..._ >  > Jim McCullars.% > University of Alabama in Huntsville. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:48:39 -0600U6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>$ Subject: Re: VMS Perl Question re LFT Message-ID: <craigberry-D53D90.22483912112003@dsl081-159-101.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net>  ( In article <botlv4$gar$1@info2.uah.edu>,)  jim@info2.uah.edu (Jim McCullars) wrote:   J >    I'm having a problem with Perl 5.004_04 running on our VMS host.  In J > searching Google, I can see that others appear to have similar problems,K > but I was unable to find a solution.  Hopefully someone can offer advice.0  H Sure, lots of it.  Start by getting a recent version of Perl.  5.8.2 is H current.  Anything older than 5.6 is really only of historical interest ) and not recommended for production use.  l  K >    I am having to use perl to read and process some production data files4G > that were produced by COBOL and have some COMP and COMP-3 fields.  On0J > occasion, a value of x'0D' (LF) may appear in one of those fields.  WhenK > that happens, the line that I get returned will be truncated.  I am doing H > a normal OPEN and while (<IN>) to get the lines.  A dir/full shows the > following attributes:  > 0 > Organization:  Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key) >                              In 2 areas   H When reading an indexed file containing binary data, the implicit reads G done by the <> operator are a poor choice.  I'd suggest installing and u5 using the VMS::IndexedFile extension (available from rG <http://search.cpan.org/~bhughes/VMS-IndexedFile-0_02/>).  Or at least hF try using sysread(), which bypasses stdio and has a chance of working / in this situation.  For more information, type     $ perldoc -f sysread   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:47:18 GMT". From: "Deep" <deep_mehtaHATESSPAM@hotmail.com># Subject: Re: [RECIPE] Roasted MezeiaL Message-ID: <aEzsb.49170$Rah1.28788@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  J Ok dude... We get the point... By the way - what did he do to piss you off so badly???i   Deep    5 "More Mezei Doozies" <mezei@isa.nut> wrote in messagec3 news:GEN18Q5C37937.7559143519@Gilgamesh-frog.org...-6 > Gregory Morrow <gregory.morrow@earthlink.net> wrote: >S > >6 > >JF Mezei (?) wrote: > >AH > >> Gregory Morrow quoted the whole drivel by the anonymous asshole and crossr. > >> posted it to a whole bunch of newsgroups. > >> > >>L > >> MORROW, IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO INSULT ME EVEN THOUGH I'VE LEFT YOURL > >> NEWSGROUP, DO IT IN REC.TRAVEL.AIR, BUT DON'T SPREAD YOUR JUNK TO OTHER > >NEWSGROUPS. > >>H > >> LEARN TO TRIM NEWSGROUPS WHEN YOU REPLY TO THE ANONYMOUS' POSTS AND MORE( > >> IMPORTANTLY' TRIM THE IDIOT'S TEXT. > >>K > >> Better yet, unless you actually support (or are) the anonymous coward,r youy- > >> shouldn't even be replying to his posts.m > >>I > >> At least the anonymous remailers cause the no-archive bit to be set,v but  > >your+; > >> replies which contain the full original message don't.u > >>L > >> Morrow, you've been around newsgroups long enough that you should know. > >TheK > >> fact that you would reply to such an asshole's post, the fact that you 	 > >didn'thJ > >> trim the newsgroups from it, can only lead to the conclusion that you
 > >support! > >> or are the anonymous coward.e > >>J > >> Why don't you hound other people who have left rec.travel.air ? There have > >> been plenty chased away.l > >c > >  > >w. > >http://www.backwoodsbound.com/zracoon2.html > >b > >Roast Raccoon with Stuffing > >u) > >~ 5 - 7lb raccoon, dressed, not cut upn > >~ 1/2 lb sausage meat > >~ 3 tbsp butter > >~ 1 onion, chopped  > >~ 1 cup chopped celerys > >~ 2 tsp saltf > >~ 1/2 tsp peppers > >~ 1/4 cup cream > >~ 2 cups corn bread crumbsd > >~ 2 tsp sager > >~ 3 tbsp chopped parsleyr > >~ 1 tsp marjoramn > >~ 1/2 tsp macea > >~ 1/4 cup orange juicer > >~ 1 cup red winea > >b > > : > >In a skillet, saute the onion and celery in the butter. > >t@ > >Add the sausage meat and cook until brown. Drain off the fat. > >eE > >In a bowl mix the sausage mixture, cream, corn bread crumbs, sage,s parsley,7 > >marjoram, mace and orange juice together thoroughly.i > >q. > >Salt and pepper the raccoon inside and out. > >gH > >Stuff the raccoon and close up the belly cavity. Place on a rack in aA > >roasting pan and cook for 45 minutes per pound at 300 degrees.  > >  > >Turn over when half done. > >mH > >Baste frequently with the wine and the pan juices when they cook out. > >o > >Serve and Enjoy!e >rH > ROFL!!!  This deserves wider dissemination.  Undoubtedly there's other= > groups with a Mezei, er, I mean, Raccoon problem out there.o >m >e >o >h >p >  >m >t >i >u >g >c >d >a >o >A >  >n >x >, >d >s >n >a >a >D >e >a >n >H >a >  >n >n >o >r >  >t >a >  >k >  >  >i >M >o >a >y >  >e >s >e >n >  >s >k >s >c >s >o >o >y >d >a >c >u >t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.629 ************************