1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 630       Contents: Alpha page size  Re: Alpha page size = Re: Announcing Availability Manager V2.3-1 and DECamds V7.3-2 4 Are preg* functions not implemented in CSWS_PHP0102? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Driver for Dataproducts LZR 650  Re: Erasing disks: conclusion  Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results# Re: Image needs to know where it is ! Re: Mail Utility Routines problem ! Re: Mail Utility Routines problem  Re: Main memory for galaxyB New CDRTOOLS (CDRECORD, MKISOFS (incl. UDF/DVD), CDDA2WAV, CDREAD)F Re: New CDRTOOLS (CDRECORD, MKISOFS (incl. UDF/DVD), CDDA2WAV, CDREAD)" Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS ! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS ! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS ! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS ! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS / Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSF 3 Re: Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSF 3 Re: Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSF  Using DELIVER over DECNet  Re: Using DELIVER over DECNet  Re: Using DELIVER over DECNet  Re: Using DELIVER over DECNet  VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  What is "TCPIP Client for VMS" ?$ Re: What is "TCPIP Client for VMS" ?$ Re: What is "TCPIP Client for VMS" ? Re: Your mother is so fat... Re: Your mother is so fat...+ [OT]: Microsoft Warns EU of Damaged Windows   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:03:01 +0100 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> Subject: Alpha page size5 Message-ID: <1068710588.475059@proxy.dienste.wien.at>   	 Hi folks,   H some time ago, I talked with a friend about physical page sizes on AlphaI systems. He told me that there is currently one page size only: 8k. It is  used on all Alpha systems.  G My question: is this true? IIRC there were plans to support larger page B sizes (16k, 32k, 64k) as well. Are there systems with these sizes?  H And about the Itanium processor? Which page size(s) will be supported on these systems?  4 MTIA for any answer, and kind greetings from Vienna,   Ferry    -- Ing. Ferry Bolhar % Municipality of Vienna, Department 14  A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIA  E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:50:39 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Alpha page size2 Message-ID: <jLNsb.8948$2i7.5702@news.cpqcorp.net>  H Yes.  There were plans for 64kb pages.  And it is quite likely that thisI will happen on IA64, and perhaps on EV7 systems (dunno).  So please don't K hardwire page size knowledge - use the standard interfaces to get the size.   H In general, we get around needing larger page sizes by using granularityI hints to reduce TLB useage.  But eventually we will need a PA larger than K the current 44 bits, one way to do that is with large pages.  Also at those D huge multi-terabyte memory sizes - a large page size may make sense.    7 "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> wrote in message / news:1068710588.475059@proxy.dienste.wien.at...  > Hi folks,  > J > some time ago, I talked with a friend about physical page sizes on AlphaK > systems. He told me that there is currently one page size only: 8k. It is  > used on all Alpha systems. > I > My question: is this true? IIRC there were plans to support larger page D > sizes (16k, 32k, 64k) as well. Are there systems with these sizes? > J > And about the Itanium processor? Which page size(s) will be supported on > these systems? > 6 > MTIA for any answer, and kind greetings from Vienna, >  > Ferry  >  > -- > Ing. Ferry Bolhar ' > Municipality of Vienna, Department 14  > A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIA  > E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:51:11 -0500 & From: "Chris Moore" <just@my.twocents>F Subject: Re: Announcing Availability Manager V2.3-1 and DECamds V7.3-2: Message-ID: <96Lsb.41265$xI2.728203@news20.bellglobal.com>  K We were promised an extension to this product at least 2, maybe 3 years ago K that would permit it to be run on a switched and routed network without the H "proprietary protocol" requirement.  Since the network boys won't enableL forwarding of these "unrecognized" packets, we have had to forego using thisE very valuable tool across our multiple-site, 25+ system installation.   L A multi-layer client-server approach was suggested, with only TCP/IP traffic. going back and forth to the remote PC clients.  L We check out each new release for some mention of this as a possibility, butG once again, apparently not.  (and yet our call to HP on this remains in   "monitor" status.........<sigh>)  J Getting harder and harder to beat back the Windows and Unix hordes without some arrows in the quiver....         ; "Barry Kierstein" <Barry.Kierstein@HP.Com> wrote in message , news:HSpsb.8855$FV5.1538@news.cpqcorp.net...E > The Availability Manager team is pleased to announce the release of I > Availability Manager V2.3-1 and DECamds V7.3-2.  Both of these versions 9 > will support data collection on OpenVMS V6.2 to V7.3-2.  > L > In addition, the Availability Manager has a few enhancements and bugfixes: > E > o Sorting by columns added to Node Summary and Single Disk displays J > o A few changes to synchronize AM cluster display with the SCACP utility >   on OpenVMS V7.3-2 C > o Correction of memory calculations needed to run AM.  The memory D >   calculations were too low for monitoring moderately-sized sites.C > o A node-specific customization file AMDS$LOGICALS_<nodename>.COM E >   will now be executed if found by the AMDS$STARTUP.COM file.  This A >   allows for node-specific customizations in a cluster setting. C > o Support for Dynamic Volume Expansion in OpenVMS V7.3-2.  In the G >   disk tab, two new fields are displayed:  Volume Size & Volume Limit  > E > Both products are available on the web off of the OpenVMS homepage.  >  > Barry Kierstein  > Availability Manager team  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 01:22:43 -0800. From: dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (Dieter  Ro?bach)= Subject: Are preg* functions not implemented in CSWS_PHP0102? = Message-ID: <e1d40caf.0311130122.6fd9a871@posting.google.com>   : I try to get phpmyadmin 2.5.3 and phpbb 2.0.6 running with csws_php0102, but end up with   8 Fatal error: Call to undefined function: preg_match() in< /apache$common/htdocs/phpbb2/install/install.php on line 206  $ The same happens with preg_replace()  @ phpmyadmin 2.3.2 does not use this function and run on my alpha.  " Is there any load option I missed?   Regards    Dieter   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:30:05 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 0 Message-ID: <3FB35D2D.5F4563C9@sture.homeip.net>   Mike Naime wrote:  > 0 > The old rule of thumb was 2x your main memory.  H Hmm, I don't remember that one in the context of VMS, though IIRC I haveG seen similar recommendations for Linux and Windoze. It never made sense G to me, as if you have gobs of RAM that most of your work will fit into, D you surely don't need much pagefile. Conversely, if you are short on: RAM, you are more likely to actually use lots of pagefile.   >  With the growth of mainK > memory into the GB range, we are trying to have at least 1x the amount of M > memory on our systems.  With 7.2-1h1, I was unable to make larger than an 8 L > million block pagefile.  With 7.3-1 I made some 16 million block pagefilesM > earlier this week for a system that has 16GB of RAM.  From my viewpoint, it 6 > is more a question of can you afford the di$k $pace? >   E My 128MB Alpha at work for example has a million block pagefile. IIRC H that was the suggestion of the colleague who helped me install it, based" on his experience of his workload.  L > If you have something like consoleworks that monitors your console output,K > you can see the Pagefile filling up, Pagefile full...System attempting to N > continue  messages that might be produced.  We asked HP how/when these whereH > generated.  They responded that there was no rhyme/reason for when theN > message would come out, and that you could not RELY on the message to appear > before the system froze. > 6 > Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> wrote in message5 > news:Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145... L > > Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient pageL > > file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likelyI > > large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?  > 9 > What exactly do you mean by cost?  Performance or $$$$?  > 7 > > That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?  > > K > > (I realize the question is being asked in a very general way.  I'm look ) > > for a general way to answer it, too.)  > >  > > --D > > ----------------------------------------------------------------D > >   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.caD > > R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185/ > >   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 5 > >                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada # > > http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4 $ > > http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   --     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:41:01 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 0 Message-ID: <3FB35FBD.6B68EACE@sture.homeip.net>   Keith A. Lewis wrote:  > } > hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes in article <Gowsb.8902$py6.7256@news.cpqcorp.net> dated Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:05:58 GMT: h > >In article <Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes:L > >:Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient pageL > >:file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likelyI > >:large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file? 7 > >:That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?  > > L > >  Other than the disk storage involved (and the usual risks of disk blockM > >  errors that might arise underneath the pagefile), having a pagefile that K > >  is larger than current requirements should not have any particular nor 1 > >  any particularly noticeable adverse effects.  > J > Hmmm, that doesn't agree with what I learned in "OpenVMS Performance andN > Tuning" back in the day.  The instructor said yes a pagefile can be too big,N > and cited a couple of reasons, I'm not sure if they are as relevant today as8 > they were back then, or even if I remember them right. >   F In a similar vein, mor than 20 years ago a colleague was experimentingC with working set sizes and found a distinct overhead with too large G working sets (the application in question did lots of remapping of data  structures, so paged heavily).  F That was then, and there have been many improvements along the way, soH you are right to question the relevance of stuff taught a long time ago.  H One of my favourite discoveries all those years ago was that GBLSECTIONS and GBLPAGESF carried very little overhead, certainly so when running systems with 4D or more MB, so I used to be pretty generous in their allocation, and# thus saved myself many a reboot :-)   I > * Virtual pages are indexed in RAM, and the size is proportional to the H > total amount of virtual memory.  Changing the page size from 512 to 8K4 > (as in VAX-Alpha transition) helps here, I'm sure. > M > * A larger pagefile spans more disk cylinders, which increases your average 1 > seek time when you're fetching a bunch of them.  >    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 07:01:28 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 3 Message-ID: <YkAYrw7EosAh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes: K > Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient page  K > file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likely  I > large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?   7 > That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?     E    Clearly it eats disk space.  It may consume a little bit of kernel C    memory tracking it, but not much is needed to track parts of the     pagefile that aren't in use.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 08:39:53 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 3 Message-ID: <IOlcjxkIGOXM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3FB31A71.95782D68@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Mike Naime wrote: L >> you can see the Pagefile filling up, Pagefile full...System attempting toO >> continue  messages that might be produced.  We asked HP how/when these where I >> generated.  They responded that there was no rhyme/reason for when the  >> message would come out, > N > These are essentially a symptom of some users having too great a pgfilquota M > in their UAF. At the first message, you kill off any TPU session. Editing a 6 > large file will consume much space in the page file.  I I look at it differently.  It's not that the users have too much pagefile C quota.  It's that the users are using more page file than you have.   L You have two choices:  Reduce page file demand or increase page file supply.  A Page file quota is a tool to control page file demand.  Blow up a C user application with an "insufficient virtual memory" error and it & will tend to use less page file space.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 00:37:03 -0800 From: md45@op.pl (Monika) ( Subject: Driver for Dataproducts LZR 650= Message-ID: <6eede541.0311130037.77f7fd12@posting.google.com>   P I'm looking for driver for an old laser printer DataProducts LZR 650 for Win 98. Can anybody help me? Monika   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2003 15:39:54 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: Erasing disks: conclusion: Message-ID: <bp08ka$1ij9hd$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <cLNEMb0U8xb9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > G > 	Firearms are a fast method.  Another trick is to drill through them   > 	with a power drill. >   < Unless you drilled every square inch of the platters I doubt= that would do any good.  I remember seeing a demo decades ago : (it involved 8" floppies) where the disk was taken out and: holes were punched in it with a paper punch.  The recovery? service then recovered everything except the bits that actually 9 occupied the locations of the holes.  More than enough to " reconstruct much of the lost data.  9 If it really matters, I would imagine melting the disk is  really the only true solution.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:45 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 8 Message-ID: <ft77rv0bg36rigjb22bmgrt8krbe4qnt2d@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:49:45 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote: L >> Your comparison, in other words, is really just not valid - or, to put itM >> another way, is only valid if you significantly restrict your view to only  >> one part of our business. > O >HP's broken promises stain "HP" as a whole, no matter if some of its divisions M >still have some dignity or not. And from what I have heard, customer support 1 >under HP is not as high as it was under Digital.   I I will not deny that perception will always get more weight than reality. ? Some people do agree with your perceptions, many others do not.   G And in light of all the other areas where HP also excels (and I somehow I forgot to mention Storage products and servcies, that was unintentional), = most customers like the one-stop-shop for all their IT needs.   J Specific CPU issues (like EV79 vs EV7z) themselves are seen as unimportantG by nearly all of the customers I work with daily - and these tend to be K business-level and upper IT-level managers... you know, the ones who really H care about things like budgets, ROI, etc.  In their minds they don't seeI anything as a "promise" in the business world because they recognize that J business pressures can often force you to make changes to your plans.  Are5 all IT and business managers like that, probably not.   K Sure, I find technology itself to be great fun, but for the consulting I do G it's only interesting in context of the businesses it needs to support. I The business doesn't care what technology it is, as long as it gives them 8 the service level they require to continue making money.  F And all the hype in here about Alpha future vs IA64 is almost never anG issue.  Of course, most (like me) wish we didn't drop it, but they have H pretty much all moved on from a "worry" perspective.  Alpha servers willE still provide them more than they need or the foreseeable future, and > they're quite satisifed that they'll be able to migrate to the6 currently-available solution *when the time is right*.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:32:13 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 2 Message-ID: <1uNsb.8946$Wj7.6538@news.cpqcorp.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:botu25$846$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:' > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" ' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ? > > wrote in message news:botm5p$5h8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > >  > >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >>< > >>>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message( > >>>news:3FB1D23A.85F28634@istop.com... > >>>  > >>>  > >>>>Greg Cagle wrote:  > >>>> > >>>>I > >>>>>Carly is talking about the CPU - you know, the thing that actually D > >>>>>runs code 8^). Chipsets and systems are the surrounding stuffH > >>>>>needed to build a complete computer. Do you really not know that? > >>>> > >>>>L > >>>>But if each manufacturer has motherboards with proprietary chipsets toK > >>>>compensate for IA64's bloatedness, how "industry standard" will  IA64  > >>>  > >>>systems > >>>  > >>>  > >>>>relaly be ?  > >>>> > >>>  > >>> F > >>>You really don't understand HW or OS design.  The chipsets aren't > >  > > designed > > L > >>>to "compensate" for anything.  Companies who design and build there own > >  > > core > > K > >>>logic chips do so in the belief that they can provide some value added K > >>>either in performance, or functionality.  This generally has no effect  > >  > > on > > I > >>>application code - aside from perhaps that it runs faster/better, or  the  > >>>system is more reliable.  > >>>  > >>G > >>Umm not entirely true. JF was actually closer to the truth than you 8 > >>but then I guess we should have guessed that anyway. > >>@ > >>http://www.ece.rochester.edu/~albonesi/wced02/papers/eng.pdf > >>? > >>Shows that Itanium discards 30% of the fetched instructions ( > >>across a standard set of benchmarks. > >>1 > >>In addition its code density is 1/2 of IA-32.  > >> > >>This is Itanium bloat. > >>? > >>And the bloat means that Itanium needs high performance low < > >>latency system interconnects in order to ensure that its8 > >>increase memory pressure doesn't impact performance. > >> > >  > >  > > A > > Ummm.  Your an idiot.  JF's current rant dejur had to do with  proprietary F > > core logic chipsets and the possibility that this may make Itanium	 platforms 0 > > incompatable at the application or OS level. > >  > A > And he was right all you need to do is compare the zx1 based HP 4 > Linux boxes with the SGI CHUB based Altix systems. > B > Most people consider commodity platforms to be ones that support > commodity apps (unmodified) < > commodity OS's (unmodified except for device type support) > based on commodity hardware. > < > They also expect this to be relatively low cost, commodity' > and low cost are inextricably linked.  > + > Itanium fails allmost all these criteria. " > You may have to modify you apps.  L Why?  On what OS?  Is it specific to the Itanium architecture?  Or somethingJ that has to do with a specialized system and code specificly optimized for it?   & > The OS's are certainly not commodity  K What the heck is your point?  The question (and I hate to remind you of it) H was if the CORE LOGIC chipsets required changes to applications.  In theI 98.9% case the answer is NO, unless you have done something very specific J (not generally an APPLICATION thing) to take advantage of a feature and DO8 NOT have a fallback for when the feature does not exist.  < > The hardware isn't either at least not from HP, Unisys and: > SGI the 3 main vendors producting large Itanium systems. >   G You are not talking to the question, just the blah, blah, blah FUD that  Itanium isn't a commodity part.   ; > Nor are they relatively cheap in fact they are relatively  > expensive. >    Irrelevant.    > D > Yup it did but the paper was written in response to a real problem >   L You are a complete clueless marketing droid.  If I go find a paper on how toC improve SPARC (and it needs it) - I guess that proves it sucks too.    > D > Who else uses zx1 apart from HP who else uses GHUB apart from SGI. >   K What are you smoking?  HP designs and builds a part to make its system able J to do specific things with specific performance, SGI does similar things -9 what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?   E AND you are STILL missing the point (except on the top of your head).    > * > So you havn't read your zx1 datasheets ! >   I Yes I have.  You want to SPIN things as:  Itanuim sucks, ZX1 works around L this.  The truth is Itanium is good, and we spin our core logic to give us a/ competetive advantage over off-the-shelf parts.    > 7 > Now you are beginning to sound like a cross between a ' > sales critter and a marketing person.  > >   , Right, and you invented clusters on Solaris.   > A > Umm do you have any idea how a UNIX kernel works, ever heard of  > dynamic kernels. >   K Sure.  But despite the 20 year old technology, most UNIXs have user build a E kernel optimized for the platform they are on.  But still - this is a  irrelevant side topic.   > J > Ohh but it is because Itanium presents a veneer of "standards" which the6 > individual developers ignore (because they have to). >   K Huh?  I guess this is the statement of someone who hasn't a clue about what 3 they are talking about.  Go back to your sales job.   E > I guess it takes an idiot to appear to know one Freddy and you just  > proved that. >   L No.  You have shown once again that you don't understand squat.  Because youF don't really get it, your answers are complete non-sequitors.  This isL because you are putting a thin veneer of technical competence on top of your! inch deep marketing capabilities.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:43:08 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 2 Message-ID: <gENsb.8947$Yh7.5097@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message " news:3FB28D3F.26EDB22@istop.com... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > > either in performance, or functionality.  This generally has no effect onL > > application code - aside from perhaps that it runs faster/better, or the > > system is more reliable. > L > > (in the absence of bugs or other restrictions in the OS) will run on any IPF 7 > > system.  It might not take advantage of proprietary 6 > > extensions/features/capabilities that are present. >  > F > If IA64's performance is marginal compared to Power, Sparc and 8086,  I IA64's performance is in the top tier of all competetors.  Sparc isn't in E the same class.  Even if they give Sparc to Fujitsu, they'll still be A battling uphill.  Check out the latest benchmarks and application K performance numbers.  If you want to use the word "marginal" then it's only J "marginally faster/slower than the fastest systems available from anyone".   >won'tL > there be a lot fo incentive to get the compilers to make full use of those? > speed-increasing features to make your products competitive ?  >   L Compilers know *nothing* about core logic chips.  Come on.  Core logic chipsJ glue memory and IO to the CPU.  Low level OS and firmware code knows aboutK core logic chips where it is exposed and interesting.  It is transparent to  the application.  K > If, in order to stay "neutral", VMS does not make use of HP's proprietary J > speed acceleration, won't that put VMS at a big disadvantage compared to HP-UX I > which is likely to be targetted to make use of those proprietary bits ?   J JF - repeat after me - there isn't some "proprietary bits" in the compiler or applications.  L An example of what *can* be exposed is something I've already talked about -L the IOTLB.  VMS is in a bad place because we expect them from Alpha.  So, weK will need them on Itanium.  We dynamically recognize their availability and J the interface to them when we look at the firmware namespace.  If they areI there - we use them - if not we don't.  Eventually drivers will no longer . need them - and the issue will resolve itself.  L This isn't an Itanium architecture issue.  In this case, it's just how AlphaI drivers were written - and how the commodity core logic chip is designed. I It's an advantage for HP platforms in IO speed - but for OS's that didn't B always expect IOTLB's - it's not a problem (say Windows or Linux).  L Andy is trying to spin other things about proposals to change the ISA.  It'sL entirely possible that the ISA for IA64 could be changed for the better.  SoK was Alpha's.  The key to ISA changes is to make them in such a way that old D code works on everything, and you need to compile explicitly to takeI advantage of the new features.  This has happened on EVERY ISA THAT I CAN  THINK OF INCLUDING SPARC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:25:16 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>, Subject: Re: Image needs to know where it is8 Message-ID: <nj87rv8rhdp4s2mr74b6timp954g247tb5@4ax.com>  J On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:36:01 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  - >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  > F >> For a big application with multiple directories, I would agree. ButF >> for a simple utility that only needs access to one or two files andE >> which isn't widely used, is it really good to force the definition D >> of a systemwide logical at system startup just so that this small >> utility could function ?  > B >Then put the damm thing in sys$system, and put the other files inE >sys$<what fits>, just as you would expect! And don't make it hard to  >use logicals!  J I beg to differ.  On all platforms that I've managed, I try to keep the OSJ areas as clear as possible of this kind of cruft.  It has saved me quite a lot of trouble over the years.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:29:26 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)* Subject: Re: Mail Utility Routines problem. Message-ID: <bp080m$qcj$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> writes in article <3fb282ab@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu> dated 12 Nov 2003 13:57:47 -0400:/ >  InList(2).Code = MAIL$_USER_SET_NEW_MESSAGES  >  InList(2).BLen = 4 & >  InList(2).BufAdr = %LOC(NUMNEWMESS) >  InList(2).RetLenAdr = 0  / >Setting count of new messages           0 TEMP ' >%MAIL-E-INVITMLEN, invalid item length   J Try changing NUMNEWMESS to a 2-byte integer.  That's what HP uses in theirM example code at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/72final/4493/4493pro_032.html .   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 11:59:06 -04007 From: "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> * Subject: Re: Mail Utility Routines problem. Message-ID: <3fb3b85a@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>  - Keith A. Lewis <lewis@mazda.mitre.org> wrote:  : "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> writes in article <3fb282ab@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu> dated 12 Nov 2003 13:57:47 -0400:0 :>  InList(2).Code = MAIL$_USER_SET_NEW_MESSAGES :>  InList(2).BLen = 4' :>  InList(2).BufAdr = %LOC(NUMNEWMESS)  :>  InList(2).RetLenAdr = 0   0 :>Setting count of new messages           0 TEMP( :>%MAIL-E-INVITMLEN, invalid item length  L : Try changing NUMNEWMESS to a 2-byte integer.  That's what HP uses in theirO : example code at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/72final/4493/4493pro_032.html .   H   Yup, that did the trick.  Many thanks.  A reexamination of the example code shows:    short    new_messages = 0   ;      D'oh.      --  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------H Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.+ Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet Center H gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html7 OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systems    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:53:18 +0100 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> # Subject: Re: Main memory for galaxy 6 Message-ID: <3fb32a5e$0$58710$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>  C I am not sure what you want to accomplish, but the only difference  F between a OpenVMS system that is part of a Galaxy and one that is not F (with respect to memory, that is), is that a Galaxy member has shared I memory. The SHOW MEMORY command will display both the non-shared and the   shared memory.   HTH,  	 Bart Zorn    Bhushan Narkhede wrote:  > Hi,  > D >      Is there a way to findout the Main memory for the VMS machineF > implementing galaxy architecture. On normal systems we can use "show% > memory/all" to get the main memory.  >  > Rgds, 	 > Bhushan    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:34:59 +0200 C From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> K Subject: New CDRTOOLS (CDRECORD, MKISOFS (incl. UDF/DVD), CDDA2WAV, CDREAD) ? Message-ID: <00A28D8C.8AEA8B24.18@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>    Konstanz, 13.Nov.2003    Hi,   @ I have managed to get more ports of the actual cdrtools package:  . cdrecord Version 2.01A19: CD Recording program4 mkisofs  Version 2.01a17: ISO/UDF-filesystem Creator. readcd   Version 2.01a17: Raw CD Reader/Writer( cdda2wav Version ?      : CD Rip Program  I Especially MKISOFS is be of interest because of the new VideoDVD support. L BTW CDRECORD still only handles CD-R(W). dvdrecord is an illegal hack, so myI DVDwrite program is the OpenVMS program for DVD burning (PLUS/MINUS/RAM).   K I hope the Mplayer for OpenVMS will be out soon to get a complete DVD video  package.   You'll find the program here:   F ftp://v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de/cdrecord_vms/cdrtools_2_01a19_vms.zip  A To generate the programs from the source execute "@BUILD_ALL.COM" " in the [.CDRTOOLS-2_01] directory.   regards  Eberhard    O ===============================================================================    Dr. Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann  Univ. Konstanz Fakultaet fuer Chemie  Universitaets-Strasse 10 D-78464 Konstanz Germany . Phone: +49-7531-88-2026, FAX: +49-7531-88-3139* email: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de  O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:57:21 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> O Subject: Re: New CDRTOOLS (CDRECORD, MKISOFS (incl. UDF/DVD), CDDA2WAV, CDREAD) 2 Message-ID: <BRNsb.8950$yi7.4165@news.cpqcorp.net>  % > dvdrecord is an illegal hack, so my 1 > DVDwrite program is the OpenVMS program for DVDa > burning(PLUS/MINUS/RAM).  @ Does this mean it can write DVD+R/+RW?  Is it free (OpenSource)?    H "Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann" <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> wrote inA message news:00A28D8C.8AEA8B24.18@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE...  > Konstanz, 13.Nov.2003u >  > Hi,  >eB > I have managed to get more ports of the actual cdrtools package: >s0 > cdrecord Version 2.01A19: CD Recording program6 > mkisofs  Version 2.01a17: ISO/UDF-filesystem Creator0 > readcd   Version 2.01a17: Raw CD Reader/Writer* > cdda2wav Version ?      : CD Rip Program >FK > Especially MKISOFS is be of interest because of the new VideoDVD support.,K > BTW CDRECORD still only handles CD-R(W). dvdrecord is an illegal hack, soe myK > DVDwrite program is the OpenVMS program for DVD burning (PLUS/MINUS/RAM).  >aG > I hope the Mplayer for OpenVMS will be out soon to get a complete DVDe videop
 > package. >n > You'll find the program here:  > H > ftp://v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de/cdrecord_vms/cdrtools_2_01a19_vms.zip >nC > To generate the programs from the source execute "@BUILD_ALL.COM" $ > in the [.CDRTOOLS-2_01] directory. >o	 > regards 
 > Eberhard >h >S > L ============================================================================ ===  >s > Dr. Eberhard Heuser-HofmannE > Univ. Konstanz > Fakultaet fuer Chemiee > Universitaets-Strasse 10 > D-78464 Konstanz	 > GermanyD0 > Phone: +49-7531-88-2026, FAX: +49-7531-88-3139, > email: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de >t >eL ============================================================================ ===T   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 06:20:31 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)+ Subject: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0311130620.7bc0f319@posting.google.com>-  3 this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe since02 windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha that. they should just make ev8-9 and use that as an alternative to amds junk ...    ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:59:41 -0500e) From: "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com> / Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?h/ Message-ID: <vr772gbka7vn63@corp.supernews.com>p  .  What do you base AMD's stuff being "junk" on?H  I was part of thier beta test rollout and it is a fast/cool/cheap chip.7  The Stuff Cray is doing with them is state of the art.a  *                                        Rob      5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagee7 news:d7791aa1.0311130620.7bc0f319@posting.google.com....5 > this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe since14 > windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha that0 > they should just make ev8-9 and use that as an > alternative to amds junk ... >$ >.+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:42:16 -0700a8 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?f0 Message-ID: <sDNsb.510$4B.15185@news.uswest.net>  K This report is based on a third party, AMD's Chief Technology Officer.  NotB' exactly an unbiased source, now, is it?a   Mike.u  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagel7 news:d7791aa1.0311130620.7bc0f319@posting.google.com...p5 > this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe sincea4 > windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha that0 > they should just make ev8-9 and use that as an > alternative to amds junk ... >  >u+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:10:18 -0500l* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?g2 Message-ID: <O_idnWcxit51MS6iRVn-gw@metrocast.net>  C "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in message * news:sDNsb.510$4B.15185@news.uswest.net...H > This report is based on a third party, AMD's Chief Technology Officer.  H In point of fact, it is not:  it states the opinions of the analyst (notI that I have any idea whether this 'analyst' has any personal credibility,-K but MPR seems to think so), not Fred Weber (whose comments just happened to 8 cause this non-AMD analyst to voice an opinion on them).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2003 17:25:46 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip? : Message-ID: <bp0eqp$1j1noi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  0 In article <sDNsb.510$4B.15185@news.uswest.net>,; 	"Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes:iM > This report is based on a third party, AMD's Chief Technology Officer.  Nota) > exactly an unbiased source, now, is it?e  = Well, that's not exactly true.  The Inquirer is reporting on e< what "MICROPROCESSOR REPORT guru Peter Glaskowsky" said.  He= just happens to agree with what "AMD chief technology officeri; Fred Weber" said at a conference.  He further refers to the ; comments of an un-specified OEM engineer to further supports: his opinion.  What it all comes down to is who to believe.; Of course, time will tell.  I for one will not be investing.8 any personal money in Intel as I have long believed that IA64  was the wrong horse.   bill   > 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagep9 > news:d7791aa1.0311130620.7bc0f319@posting.google.com...V6 >> this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe since5 >> windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha that 1 >> they should just make ev8-9 and use that as ane >> alternative to amds junk ...  >> >>, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654 >  >    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 12:13:07 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)$/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?c3 Message-ID: <rttb3vLDkgc5@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  i In article <bp0eqp$1j1noi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:m   > = > Of course, time will tell.  I for one will not be investingo: > any personal money in Intel as I have long believed that > IA64  was the wrong horse. >   A 	Hmmmm.. if your timing was good - "in this IA64 era" - you couldrB 	have invested in INTC Jan/Feb of this year and doubled your moneyE 	if you cashed out today (INTC trading $15 a share Jan/Feb currently 1 	$33 per share).   				Robm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:11:20 GMTp9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>n/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?b2 Message-ID: <cPPsb.8965$DB7.2082@news.cpqcorp.net>  L But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically.  So it. is a good place to invest your personal money.  9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagea4 news:bp0eqp$1j1noi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de...2 > In article <sDNsb.510$4B.15185@news.uswest.net>,< > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes:J > > This report is based on a third party, AMD's Chief Technology Officer. Not + > > exactly an unbiased source, now, is it?  >V> > Well, that's not exactly true.  The Inquirer is reporting on> > what "MICROPROCESSOR REPORT guru Peter Glaskowsky" said.  He? > just happens to agree with what "AMD chief technology officer = > Fred Weber" said at a conference.  He further refers to ther= > comments of an un-specified OEM engineer to further supporth< > his opinion.  What it all comes down to is who to believe.= > Of course, time will tell.  I for one will not be investing1: > any personal money in Intel as I have long believed that > IA64  was the wrong horse. >6 > bill >o > >g9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageA; > > news:d7791aa1.0311130620.7bc0f319@posting.google.com...f8 > >> this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe since7 > >> windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha thatg3 > >> they should just make ev8-9 and use that as ans! > >> alternative to amds junk ...a > >> > >>. > >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654 > >r > >o >o > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:22:44 +0100t/ From: Bob Marcan <bob@interstudio.homeunix.net>O* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS2 Message-ID: <tXIsb.5513$2B6.1055077@news.siol.net>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:F > The X11 Window System is the R6.6 release for both client and serverK > The Motif libraries are V1.2 based.  Of course, even though V2.x has beeniN > out on UNIX for years, many people still use V1.2.  Very few people use V2.xA > features.  The biggest deficit is that V1.2 is not thread safe.  >  > 9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagek% > news:3FA8E553.F414F761@istop.com...  >  >>Richard Brodie wrote:  >>H >>>Sigh. Shouldn't that be "I'm pleased to see that VMS engineering have > 
 > brought the  > / >>>X implementation on VMS up to date at last"?a >>! >>Isn't it still at 1.2 for VAX ?  >>C >>And I think that Alpha is getting an upgrade to 1.5 when other HP5! >>implementations of X are at 2.1  >  >  >    Is lbxproxy supported?   Regards, Bob   -- .A   Bob Marcan                     mailto:bob.marcan@hermes-plus.si $   Aster^H^H...HermesPlus^H^H^H...S&TA   Slandrova ul. 2                       tel:    +386 (1) 5895-200eA   1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia              http://www.hermes-plus.si    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:56:45 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS, Message-ID: <bovo1f$16n2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  < "Bob Marcan" <bob@interstudio.homeunix.net> wrote in message, news:tXIsb.5513$2B6.1055077@news.siol.net...   > Is lbxproxy supported?   Yes.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:51:26 GMTl9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>I* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS2 Message-ID: <2MNsb.8949$cg7.3347@news.cpqcorp.net>  G Yes.  You need Motif V1.3 (on V7.3-1) or V1.3-1 (which comes on V7.3-2)u  H Warning for all - V7.3-2 does not give you the option of using any Motif version older than V1.3-1.      5 "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote in messagey& news:bovo1f$16n2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk... >i> > "Bob Marcan" <bob@interstudio.homeunix.net> wrote in message. > news:tXIsb.5513$2B6.1055077@news.siol.net... >  > > Is lbxproxy supported? >r > Yes. >  >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:25:33 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS0 Message-ID: <3FB3BE8D.1C8AEDEF@sture.homeip.net>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > I > Yes.  You need Motif V1.3 (on V7.3-1) or V1.3-1 (which comes on V7.3-2)s > J > Warning for all - V7.3-2 does not give you the option of using any Motif > version older than V1.3-1. >d  G Can you please clarify? Do you mean it is mandatory to upgrade Motif astG part of a V7.3-2 upgrade, or simply that no previous versions to V1.3-1   are shipped on the V7.3-2 CD(s)?  h7 > "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote in messaged( > news:bovo1f$16n2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk... > >m@ > > "Bob Marcan" <bob@interstudio.homeunix.net> wrote in message0 > > news:tXIsb.5513$2B6.1055077@news.siol.net... > >e > > > Is lbxproxy supported? > >i > > Yes. > >t > >    -- a   -- t
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:22:27 GMTt9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> * Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS2 Message-ID: <n5Psb.8959$Wt7.2090@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message-* news:3FB3BE8D.1C8AEDEF@sture.homeip.net... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >pK > > Yes.  You need Motif V1.3 (on V7.3-1) or V1.3-1 (which comes on V7.3-2)D > >AL > > Warning for all - V7.3-2 does not give you the option of using any Motif > > version older than V1.3-1. > >@ >.I > Can you please clarify? Do you mean it is mandatory to upgrade Motif aseI > part of a V7.3-2 upgrade, or simply that no previous versions to V1.3-1n" > are shipped on the V7.3-2 CD(s)? >u  1 Manditory upgrade.  Yeah, I know that this sucks.   J The changes made required incompatable changes to the transport layer, andH the way that the X11/Motif bits are split up between the OS and Motif LP- made it very hard to not require the upgrade.r  G The V1.3 kit was provided for V7.3-1 to allow people to move to the new-K version and make sure all is well.  For the most part, the change should becJ transparent.  Just more up to date XLIB/XT bits, some new extensions, etc.  K One of the major changes was that the client libraries had been being builtoJ on a VAX using cross compiler tools and libraries that predate Version 1.0I of Alpha (I kid you not).  They just *had* to be able to start using CRTLgK features (for example) that had been available for a half dozen years - andn+ a C compiler that didn't start with T1.xxx.h   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 01:05:09 -08007 From: stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge)U8 Subject: Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSF= Message-ID: <a48f6f51.0311130105.36f925eb@posting.google.com>.   Hi,o  C We have a set of EXEs that are linked with /NODEBUG and /TRACEBACK. B This gives us the desired result of providing line numbers/modules when the application crashes.c  F However, to help us analyse the performance of this application we areE using DCPI (amongst other things) which requires us to either compile"D with /DEBUG or use a .DSF file generated by the LINK/DSF command. We@ would prefer not to use /DEBUG, principally because the Debugger: starts up when the EXE is called. When we try to link withF /DSF/TRACE/NODEBUG the DSF is produced but no traceback information isC available when the application crashes. So we need either tracebacklE information in the EXE or the system to get this info out of the .DSF  when the EXE crashes.-  C I've used the following program to try various options, called a.c:o   main(){l int a,b;       a = 0;         b = 123 / a; }i   it is compiled:0   $ CC/DEBUG/NOOPT/LIS a.c  1 I've tried the following combinations of linking:o   $ LINK /MAP=A.MAP /EXE=A.EXE A $!5 $ LINK /MAP=A_DSF.MAP /DSF=A_DSF.DSF /EXE=A_DSF.EXE Am $!E $ LINK /MAP=A_DSF_TRACE.MAP /DSF=A_DSF_TRACE.DSF /EXE=A_DSF_TRACE.EXE  /TRACE A $!< $ LINK /MAP=A_DSF_TRACE_DEBUG.MAP /DSF=A_DSF_TRACE_DEBUG.DSF* /EXE=A_DSF_TRACE_DEBUG.EXE /TRACE /DEBUG A $!  / This is on various Alphas, running OpenVMS v7.3t  D I've also tried assigning DBG$IMAGE_DSF_PATH to point to the current
 directory.   Any ideas ?e   Steve Bainbridge   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:38:37 -0500t( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>< Subject: Re: Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSF/ Message-ID: <00A28D41.9D6493BC.8@tachysoft.com>l  8 >From: stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge) >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms9 >Subject: Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSFr! >Date: 13 Nov 2003 01:05:09 -0800n' >Organization: http://groups.google.comi> >Message-ID: <a48f6f51.0311130105.36f925eb@posting.google.com> >X-Gateway-From: mvb.saic.comu >jD >We have a set of EXEs that are linked with /NODEBUG and /TRACEBACK.C >This gives us the desired result of providing line numbers/modules4 >when the application crashes. >mG >However, to help us analyse the performance of this application we arerF >using DCPI (amongst other things) which requires us to either compileE >with /DEBUG or use a .DSF file generated by the LINK/DSF command. WerA >would prefer not to use /DEBUG, principally because the Debuggert# >starts up when the EXE is called. h  L Depends on how the image is activated.  If via foreign command or verb, thenH yes it will kick off the debugger.  If with the run command, you can use	 /nodebug.w   >When we try to link withiG >/DSF/TRACE/NODEBUG the DSF is produced but no traceback information is D >available when the application crashes. So we need either tracebackF >information in the EXE or the system to get this info out of the .DSF >when the EXE crashes. >  > 0 >This is on various Alphas, running OpenVMS v7.3 >UE >I've also tried assigning DBG$IMAGE_DSF_PATH to point to the currentl >directory.c >o >Any ideas ? >d    J Debug is simply a flag in the image header.  You can easily turn it off byG clearing the bit.  I have posted a program that does this in the past.  & Somebody else had a command procedure.  N Another possibility would be to write a bogus debug module that you could linkO into the image instead of the regular debugger (with /debug=object-module).  OfaN course, you would have to locate the real entry point via the transfer vectory array and call it.O ===============================================================================tN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   nO ===============================================================================cH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"v   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 07:24:34 -0800- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume)l< Subject: Re: Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSF< Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0311130724.35659b2@posting.google.com>   stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk:r > Hi,e > E > We have a set of EXEs that are linked with /NODEBUG and /TRACEBACK.uD > This gives us the desired result of providing line numbers/modules > when the application crashes._ > H > However, to help us analyse the performance of this application we areG > using DCPI (amongst other things) which requires us to either compilenF > with /DEBUG or use a .DSF file generated by the LINK/DSF command. WeB > would prefer not to use /DEBUG, principally because the Debugger< > starts up when the EXE is called. When we try to link withH > /DSF/TRACE/NODEBUG the DSF is produced but no traceback information isE > available when the application crashes. So we need either tracebackbG > information in the EXE or the system to get this info out of the .DSFh > when the EXE crashes.e >  > [...]s > 
 > Any ideas ?   D A couple.  You can use RUN/NODEBUG on an executable that is compiledF and linked with /DEBUG.  Also, EIGEN had a tool that flipped the debugC bit on an executable so that you could compile and link with /DEBUGd( and run normally without using /NODEBUG.   JMOD   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:56:07 -0500e< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>" Subject: Using DELIVER over DECNet: Message-ID: <bp0d38$1j7d1j$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>  8 We need to have mail sent to one particular account from> applications and jobs on 29 different VAX and Alphas forwarded to two different accounts.  > A quick search told us that DELIVER could do this (or we could; route the mail through one of the two MVII machines we haves< running 4.7, but we decided that was not something we wanted> to try :) ). DELIVER has been installed from a kit on Process'> site and the MAIL.DELIVERY file setup on a test account. If we; send mail to that account from the box the account lives on>9 then DELIVER works great. If we send mail from one of the  other 28 boxes we get 9     %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport DELIVERi  > According to DELIVER_BUGS.TXT this was a known problem back in< 1989. Are there any newer versions of DELIVER out there that; have this bug fixed? Are there any workarounds (we can have>= the workaround on VAX or Alpha V7.x)? I tried setting another = user to forward to the user that uses DELIVER, but that stillr has the same problem.i   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.t Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXo www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:42:30 +0100d9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>C& Subject: Re: Using DELIVER over DECNet' Message-ID: <3FB3C286.C9FD8BC7@aaa.com>e   Hi.s* I'm not sure what "version" I use, but the. AAAREADME file says "created on 12 Nov 1994.".  1 It's used on an AS1200, VMS 7.3-1, managing abouta 500 mails/day.  , I think I'm using whatever is the latest kit at Hunter Goatley's VMS site :* http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html.  & His site says "Version:  17-NOV-1994".  0 Just a check, you *have* run the DELIVER_STARTUP command file, right ?i  	 Jan-Erik.t       Peter Weaver wrote:t > : > We need to have mail sent to one particular account from@ > applications and jobs on 29 different VAX and Alphas forwarded > to two different accounts. > @ > A quick search told us that DELIVER could do this (or we could= > route the mail through one of the two MVII machines we havee> > running 4.7, but we decided that was not something we wanted@ > to try :) ). DELIVER has been installed from a kit on Process'@ > site and the MAIL.DELIVERY file setup on a test account. If we= > send mail to that account from the box the account lives ong; > then DELIVER works great. If we send mail from one of the, > other 28 boxes we geth; >     %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport DELIVERy > @ > According to DELIVER_BUGS.TXT this was a known problem back in> > 1989. Are there any newer versions of DELIVER out there that= > have this bug fixed? Are there any workarounds (we can havet? > the workaround on VAX or Alpha V7.x)? I tried setting another ? > user to forward to the user that uses DELIVER, but that stillu > has the same problem.  >  > -- > Peter Weaver! > Weaver Consulting Services Inc.H > Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXm > www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:17:29 -0500d< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>& Subject: Re: Using DELIVER over DECNet: Message-ID: <bp0hrr$1il3p4$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:a > Hi.u, > I'm not sure what "version" I use, but the0 > AAAREADME file says "created on 12 Nov 1994.". >d3 > It's used on an AS1200, VMS 7.3-1, managing abouta > 500 mails/day. >e. > I think I'm using whatever is the latest kit  > at Hunter Goatley's VMS site :, > http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html. >,( > His site says "Version:  17-NOV-1994". > 2 > Just a check, you *have* run the DELIVER_STARTUP > command file, right ?  > ....  > That's the same version we have from the same site. The person7 who put it on the system said that he followed what they= instructions said and I have run DELIVER_STARTUP myself. Here  are the logicals it creates;   "DELIVER_MAILSHR" [exec] =< "$12$DIA210:[SYSTEM_SUPPORT.DELIVER]DELIVER_MAILSHR.VAX_EXE"2 "MAIL$PROTOCOL_DELIVER" [exec] = "DELIVER_MAILSHR"  ) The DELIVER_MAILSHR.VAX_EXE is installed.y  ! The DELIVER_BUGS.TXT file states;s  = :line 1006 in DELIVER.PAS fails to set CMKRNL (though it doesr set SYSPRV ok). = :As a result the $SNDJBC fails to the submit the batch job to  another username.u< :Of course it all works fine if your default decnet username has CMKRNL!!  < So, can you send mail to nodename::username from a node that< does not have DELIVER installed? If you can does your DECNET; account have CMKRNL? If not then how did you get DELIVER to1 work?    CANCEL ALL THAT!0 $ set file deliver_mailshr.vax_exe;*/prot=(w:re): did the trick, the file had (RWED,RWED,RE,) so that was my problem.   Thanks for your time.f   -- p Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.3 Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXd www.weaverconsulting.cai   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:07:59 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>/& Subject: Re: Using DELIVER over DECNet' Message-ID: <3FB3C87F.345C9514@aaa.com>o  5 To clearify, the "error activating transport DELIVER"y/ is exactly what you get if you have not run the 3 startup file for DELIVER. The DELIVER_MAILSHR imagen1 isn't INSTALL'ed. Check that the DELIVER logicalsp
 are defined :S   $ sh log *deliver* s   (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  9   "DELIVER_MAILSHR" = "xxxxxxx"  (points to the image...)s-   "MAIL$PROTOCOL_DELIVER" = "DELIVER_MAILSHR"s   $   	 Jan-Erik.u     Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:n >  > Hi. , > I'm not sure what "version" I use, but the0 > AAAREADME file says "created on 12 Nov 1994.". > 3 > It's used on an AS1200, VMS 7.3-1, managing aboutf > 500 mails/day. > . > I think I'm using whatever is the latest kit  > at Hunter Goatley's VMS site :, > http://www.process.com/openvms/index.html. > ( > His site says "Version:  17-NOV-1994". > 2 > Just a check, you *have* run the DELIVER_STARTUP > command file, right ?  >  > Jan-Erik.S >  > Peter Weaver wrote:o > >o< > > We need to have mail sent to one particular account fromB > > applications and jobs on 29 different VAX and Alphas forwarded > > to two different accounts. > >tB > > A quick search told us that DELIVER could do this (or we could? > > route the mail through one of the two MVII machines we haves@ > > running 4.7, but we decided that was not something we wantedB > > to try :) ). DELIVER has been installed from a kit on Process'B > > site and the MAIL.DELIVERY file setup on a test account. If we? > > send mail to that account from the box the account lives ono= > > then DELIVER works great. If we send mail from one of thec > > other 28 boxes we getn= > >     %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport DELIVERe > > B > > According to DELIVER_BUGS.TXT this was a known problem back in@ > > 1989. Are there any newer versions of DELIVER out there that? > > have this bug fixed? Are there any workarounds (we can haveuA > > the workaround on VAX or Alpha V7.x)? I tried setting anotheriA > > user to forward to the user that uses DELIVER, but that stilld > > has the same problem.  > >a > > -- > > Peter Weaver# > > Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  > > Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXi > > www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:05:51 -0500r8 From: Nathan Hartley <nathan@removethis.ilothlorien.com>% Subject: VMS Defragmentation Softwareo/ Message-ID: <vr7ef11drh320f@corp.supernews.com>x  A Anyone have an opinion on VMS open-file defragmentation software?n  I I am currently looking at Raxco's Performance Suite and Executive's Disk - Keeper.    Thanks,1   Nathan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:53:15 -0700n+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>8) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation SoftwareT' Message-ID: <3FB3C50B.7050102@MMaz.com>c   Nathan Hartley wrote:o  C > Anyone have an opinion on VMS open-file defragmentation software?r >bH I've used Raxco's products for roughly 18 years, and have acquired them E at each site I've handled turning that time frame.  Their support is nI great, a quality product, and no 'baggage' as with competitor products...i   Barryl       -- s  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        !   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:01:44 -0600 ( From: "Jenny Butler" <jbutler@utmem.edu>) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Softwaref3 Message-ID: <005601c3aa10$3293c6d0$1806c084@JennyB>-  ;  We've used the DEC/Compaq/HP Disk Defragmentation softwareiD  ever since it came out and it's good.  I can't recall ever having a   problem due to using it.  Jenny  ----- Original Message ----- -  >From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>t > To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>., > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:53 AM+ > Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation SoftwareM >A >  > > Nathan Hartley wrote:  > >sG > > > Anyone have an opinion on VMS open-file defragmentation software?u > > >eK > > I've used Raxco's products for roughly 18 years, and have acquired them H > > at each site I've handled turning that time frame.  Their support isA > > great, a quality product, and no 'baggage' as with competitor2 products...- > > 	 > > Barry  > >  > >i > >} > > -- g > > B > > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.comB > > Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320B > > Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:47:33 +0000 (UTC)t, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Softwared. Message-ID: <bp0jk5$lhs$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Nathan Hartley <nathan@removethis.ilothlorien.com> writes in article <vr7ef11drh320f@corp.supernews.com> dated Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:05:51 -0500:(B >Anyone have an opinion on VMS open-file defragmentation software? >sJ >I am currently looking at Raxco's Performance Suite and Executive's Disk  >Keeper.  L Is that the same thing as "Perfectdisk"?  The software works well, but theirL key authentication system was such a pain... When I rebuilt my system disk II had to call them and beg/buy a new key.  After a couple rounds of this, I K ended up buying HP's DFO, which works about as well and uses the normal PAK- scheme.-  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:44:46 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>O) Subject: What is "TCPIP Client for VMS" ? ' Message-ID: <3FB3C30E.A7263F1C@aaa.com>h   Hi.o/ In the SPD for NAS150, it says that it includess) "Compaq TCP/IP Client for OpenVMS Alpha".f  7 Now, I'v been searching for some information about whata4 a "client" version of TCPIP is. What is missing from the "real stuff" ?  
 Anyone know ?p  	 Jan-Erik.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:07:22 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>- Subject: Re: What is "TCPIP Client for VMS" ?l4 Message-ID: <3fb3c873$0$10438$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:a   > Hi.o1 > In the SPD for NAS150, it says that it includest+ > "Compaq TCP/IP Client for OpenVMS Alpha".n > 9 > Now, I'v been searching for some information about what 6 > a "client" version of TCPIP is. What is missing from > the "real stuff" ? >  > Anyone know ?   2 http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP4646/SP4646PF.PDF Page 1.o   D. -- n:            Read the last VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration NewsC      English: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf8C       French: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311fr.pdf0  F didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPC      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationiF Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287D    SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:24:36 +0100O9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>,- Subject: Re: What is "TCPIP Client for VMS" ? ' Message-ID: <3FB3CC64.787D5F60@aaa.com>o   Merci Didier !  " But they are not 100% clear there.  1 In the description of the client license, it says   !   "For customers who require onlyn%    client components (FTP [client andz$    server], IMAP, LPD, TELNET, SNMP,'    NTP, NFS client, Metric Server, POP,e    FINGER, RLOGIN, REXEC, RSH,    RMT/RCD, and XDM)."  6 Note that it says "[client and server]" only for FTP !3 But what about the TELNET server ? You must be able $ to telnet to an NAS150 server, not ?  ' And SMTP ? That isn't mentioned at all.a/ Are SMTP client and server included in NAS150 ?5   But wait, on page 7 it says :h  =   "The client license provides complete product functionality=2    except for the following server components: NFS6    server, BIND server, PC-NFS server, the remote BOOT4    server, the DHCP server, and the RMT/RCD server."   That is clearer !R  	 Jan-Erik.L       Didier Morandi wrote:D >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:g >  > > Hi.83 > > In the SPD for NAS150, it says that it includesl- > > "Compaq TCP/IP Client for OpenVMS Alpha".p > > ; > > Now, I'v been searching for some information about whatn8 > > a "client" version of TCPIP is. What is missing from > > the "real stuff" ? > >n > > Anyone know ?k > 4 > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP4646/SP4646PF.PDF	 > Page 1.U >  > D. > --< >            Read the last VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration NewsE >      English: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdfiE >       French: www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311fr.pdfi > H > didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPE >      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationeH > Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287F >    SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:43:02 GMTe$ From: faeychild <nykysle@ph@b@s.com>% Subject: Re: Your mother is so fat...g, Message-ID: <3fb33604@news.comindico.com.au>  K >> For Willy the envelope's rural, to me it's cheap, whereas above you it's E >> rejecting strange.  To be worthwhile or sad will recollect youngernG >> floors to regularly arrive.  Almost no rude cars cover Ben, and they D >> subtly mould Abdel too.  He may cook the bizarre hen and taste itK >> near its barn.  Marian, over games sour and open, measures alongside it,e@ >> caring cruelly.  It's very bitter today, I'll open smartly orA >> Allahdad will excuse the clouds.  If the easy cases can depart:9 >> believably, the inner orange may scold more monoliths.= >> =   >> = >> = >> = > 
 > whatever  5 Is this twaddle generated by some type of AI program.-   -- a
 faeychild.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:29:17 GMTl" From: Alan Connor <zzzzzz@xxx.yyy>% Subject: Re: Your mother is so fat...@C Message-ID: <xhHsb.11337$6c3.1982@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>   ? On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:43:02 GMT, faeychild <nykysle@ph> wrote:o >  >  > L >>> For Willy the envelope's rural, to me it's cheap, whereas above you it'sF >>> rejecting strange.  To be worthwhile or sad will recollect youngerH >>> floors to regularly arrive.  Almost no rude cars cover Ben, and theyE >>> subtly mould Abdel too.  He may cook the bizarre hen and taste itbL >>> near its barn.  Marian, over games sour and open, measures alongside it,A >>> caring cruelly.  It's very bitter today, I'll open smartly orpB >>> Allahdad will excuse the clouds.  If the easy cases can depart: >>> believably, the inner orange may scold more monoliths. >>>  >  >>>  >>>  >>>  >> i >> whatevere > 7 > Is this twaddle generated by some type of AI program.s >  > --   > faeychild.      ; Artificial Intelligence: When the real thing just won't do.l      > As for people who think that what is really nothing more than H a fancy electronic switchboard can eventually develop intelligence......  O hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahaha O hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahatO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahaharO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahabO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahaeO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahayO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahatO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahaha O hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahaha-O hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahadO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahasO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahalO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahaha O hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahaiO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahanO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahaiO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahayO hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahaa      F As for *simulating* intelligence with a computer, you can do that on a 286.  H Artificial Intelligence is to real intelligence what a stage magician's * disappearing act is to real translocation.   -- B" Alan C    this post ends with    w"                                  q   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:08:36 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>b4 Subject: [OT]: Microsoft Warns EU of Damaged WindowsB Message-ID: <U7Nsb.82$YX1.54@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20031 113/tc_nm/tech_microsoft_eu_dc    J I don't get it....as if that is a threat compared to what ships currently.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.630 ************************