1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 14 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 631       Contents: Re: Alpha page size  Re: Boot Problem with Simh Boot Problem with Simh Re: Boot Problem with Simh Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big? Re: Can Pagefile be too big?/ Re: DECserver reloads over internet VPN tunnels  Re: Erasing a disk Re: Erasing disks: conclusion  Re: Erasing disks: conclusion , Re: Fonts for printing from a decwindows app Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: Main memory for galaxy Re: Main memory for galaxyF Re: New CDRTOOLS (CDRECORD, MKISOFS (incl. UDF/DVD), CDDA2WAV, CDREAD)& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?& Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?! Re: OT: an example of a modern OS 7 Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' " ; Re: Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' " ; Re: Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' " ; Re: Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' " 3 Re: Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSF  Re: Using DELIVER over DECNet   Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software Re: VMS Perl Question re LF   VMS- submit queue only runs once$ Re: VMS- submit queue only runs once$ Re: VMS- submit queue only runs once$ Re: VMS- submit queue only runs once$ Re: VMS- submit queue only runs once$ Re: VMS- submit queue only runs once Re: Your mother is so fat... Re: Your mother is so fat...' [OpenVMS VAX V7.3] OPC$LOGFILE_ENABLE ? + Re: [OpenVMS VAX V7.3] OPC$LOGFILE_ENABLE ? + Re: [OpenVMS VAX V7.3] OPC$LOGFILE_ENABLE ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 2003 18:41 CST . From: carl@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) Subject: Re: Alpha page size4 Message-ID: <13NOV200318414157@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu>  = "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes... I }Yes.  There were plans for 64kb pages.  And it is quite likely that this J }will happen on IA64, and perhaps on EV7 systems (dunno).  So please don'tL }hardwire page size knowledge - use the standard interfaces to get the size.  A Didn't the Cray systems that used the Alpha use large page sizes?   $ Doesn't run VMS, but does use Alpha.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:23:06 -0500 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca># Subject: Re: Boot Problem with Simh : Message-ID: <bp108b$1j892s$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>   rob kas wrote:9 >    I'm trying to test out the Simh Emulator and get the 	 following  > error  >...8 >   result. I know the CD is good since I just booted my Alphaserver < >   2100 from it. I know the cdrom in the Intel box is good. >...  > If the CD is good for booting an Alphaserver then the CD is an) Alpha CD, you want a VAX CD to boot Simh.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:11:53 -0500 ) From: "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com>  Subject: Boot Problem with Simh / Message-ID: <vr80dap0279pef@corp.supernews.com>   
         Hi  G    I'm trying to test out the Simh Emulator and get the following error       -DUA1 ?47 FILNOTCNTG, DUA . HALT instruction, PC: 00000C1A (MOVL (R11),SP) sim>    ;   I attempting to run it on a Intel Box Running RedHat 9.0. (   It compiles fine loads  ROM file fine.4   I've tried booting from a CD Image created with ddJ   I've tried booting directly from the CD /dev/cdrom with the same result.H   I know the CD is good since I just booted my Alphaserver 2100 from it.,   I know the cdrom in the Intel box is good.   Any pointers?   "                             Thanks                               Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:13:29 -0500 # From: "rob kas" <rob@paychoice.com> # Subject: Re: Boot Problem with Simh 6 Message-ID: <e4Vsb.1$Jz5.55421022@news.netcarrier.net>  ; > >    I'm trying to test out the Simh Emulator and get the  > following 	 > > error  > >...: > >   result. I know the CD is good since I just booted my
 > Alphaserver > > >   2100 from it. I know the cdrom in the Intel box is good. > >... > @ > If the CD is good for booting an Alphaserver then the CD is an+ > Alpha CD, you want a VAX CD to boot Simh.  >  > --   >   *            Damn  that was a stupid mistake                   thanks                    Rob   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:14:35 GMT ) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> % Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 7 Message-ID: <Xns94327C89F1ED2falkarcabca@198.80.55.250>   > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in, news:YkAYrw7EosAh@eisner.encompasserve.org:   G > In article <Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk " > <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes: F >> Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficientF >> page file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GBE >> is likely large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the F >> larger file?  That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?   > G >    Clearly it eats disk space.  It may consume a little bit of kernel E >    memory tracking it, but not much is needed to track parts of the ! >    pagefile that aren't in use.   / Thank you.  That is the answer I'm looking for.    --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 15:42:53 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) % Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? = Message-ID: <8a646952.0311131542.51f0966e@posting.google.com>   	 Dear Sir:   F To find how big the page file should be can be done by finding all the> accounts in the sysuaf and sum their page file quota together.E Remember to include the number of processes using the Sysuaf account. A This will give you an idea what the initial size of the page file C should be. Granted, not all of the processes are going to use their E page file quota but it is a start. The number of page files should be D limited base upon the direct I/O seen for the page file. I generallyE place one pagefile per disk that has little or no I/Os. Thus the disk = I/O should be the Page file I/O making it easier to identify.   E Is too big of a page file a problem? Not unless you are short of disk D space. As the use of VMS system is increase the more memory is used.F This leads to more of the page file being used. What you don't want toE happen is to have too little of a page file amount and have it become D fragmented quickly when it become suddenly used. If it becomes full,B you turn off the VMS machine and reboot and increase the page file= sizes and/or number of page files. Then explain to your boss, = director, VP, and maybe the President of the company why this  happen(Not Good).   F A negative reservable count may indicate that the page file may be too@ small. I have extracted from VMSFAQ the article that covers that subject.  
 Good Luck, Daryl Jones   O ===============================================================================    Taken from VMSFAQ   F 5.10 Why do I have a negative number in the pagefile reservable pages?  D Seeing a negative number in the reservable pages portion of the SHOW= MEMORY/FULL command can be normal and expected, and is (even) E documented behaviour. A pagefile with a negative number of reservable A pages is overcommitted, which is generally goodness assuming that C every process with reserved pages does not try to occupy all of the ? reserved pagefile space at the same time. To understand how the F pagefile reservation process works, think about how a traditional bankD operates when accepting customer deposits and making loans. It's theB same idea with the pagefile space. There is less money in the bankA vault than the total deposits, because much of the money has been F loaned out to other customers of the bank. And the behaviour parallelsF that of the pagefile down to the problems that a "run on the bank" canB cause for banking customers. (Though there is no deposit insuranceE available for pagefile users.) If all of the running applications try F to use the reserved space, the system manager will need to enlarge theE pagefile or add one or more additional pagefules. To determine if the 8 pagefile is excessively overcommitted, watch for "doubleE overcommitment"---when the reservable space approaches the negatation F of the available total space---and watch that the total amount of freeD space available in the pagefile remains adequate. If either of theseF situations arises, additional pagefile storage is required. AdditionalC pagefile information: Additional pagefiles can typically be created @ and connected on a running OpenVMS system. New processes and new< applications will tend to use the new pagefile, and existingB applications can be restarted to migrate out of the more congestedC pagefiles. Pagefiles are generally named PAGEFILE.SYS, and multiple F pagefiles are generally configured on separate disk spindles to spreadD the paging I/O load across the available disk storage. When multipleD pagefiles are present on recent OpenVMS versions, each pagefile fileC should be configured to be approximately the same total size as the F other pagefiles. For additional information on pagefile operations andF related commands, see the system management and performance management) manuals in the OpenVMS documentation set.   E With OpenVMS V7.3 and later, the displays have been changed and these & negative values are no longer visible.O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------     j Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> wrote in message news:<Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>...K > Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient page  K > file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likely  I > large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?   7 > That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?    > J > (I realize the question is being asked in a very general way.  I'm look ' > for a general way to answer it, too.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:55:21 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>% Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 5 Message-ID: <1031113203638.3301G-100000@Ives.egh.com>   * On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Keith A. Lewis wrote:  } > hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes in article <Gowsb.8902$py6.7256@news.cpqcorp.net> dated Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:05:58 GMT: h > >In article <Xns943177A5EFCA9falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> writes:M > >:Some recent problems that we had were mis-diagnosed as insufficient page  M > >:file size, so now I have a pagefile of more than 7 GB.  1.5 GB is likely  K > >:large enough.  Is there a significant cost to having the larger file?   9 > >:That is, would it be worthwhile to shrink it again?    > > L > >  Other than the disk storage involved (and the usual risks of disk blockM > >  errors that might arise underneath the pagefile), having a pagefile that K > >  is larger than current requirements should not have any particular nor 1 > >  any particularly noticeable adverse effects.  > J > Hmmm, that doesn't agree with what I learned in "OpenVMS Performance andN > Tuning" back in the day.  The instructor said yes a pagefile can be too big,N > and cited a couple of reasons, I'm not sure if they are as relevant today as8 > they were back then, or even if I remember them right. > I > * Virtual pages are indexed in RAM, and the size is proportional to the H > total amount of virtual memory.  Changing the page size from 512 to 8K4 > (as in VAX-Alpha transition) helps here, I'm sure.  G Unused pagefile space is no one's virtual memory.  If you had processes E that grow to sop up whatever space is available in the pagefile, then D this would be an issue, except they would be getting virtual address> space full (VASFULL) errors with a "correctly"-sized pagefile.  D Unless they actually sniffed the free space in the pagefile and grewE as much as they could.  I would probably consider this an application H bug, since it would be grabbing much more virtual space than it actuallyG needed.  (The other possibility, that it failed or ran much more slowly H with a smaller virtual size, implies that your new, way too big pagefile is in fact correctly sized.)   > M > * A larger pagefile spans more disk cylinders, which increases your average 1 > seek time when you're fetching a bunch of them.   F This is true, but a second-order effect.  Usually the access time of aF disk is the sum of the rotational latency (on average 1/2 the time forC a full rotation) plus the seek time.  The seek time is 0 if you are E on cylinder, but is (for most of the disks I've ever seen performance H figures for), a fairly large number plus a small number times the numberH of cylinders.  So seeking 20 cylinders is only very slightly slower thanB seeking 10.  Seeking 200 cylinders instead of 10 might start to beH significant, though.  You need to see the exact numbers for a particular disk drive to compute this.   C I don't know how the pagefile allocation strategy works in VMS.  It B might be that if you are using only 10% of your pagefile, then allE (or almost all) the used bits will be in the 1st 10% of the pagefile. B On the other hand, if it uses a least-recently-used strategy, thenD as time goes on, processes will get scattered all over the pagefile,H with many big unused spaces between them, which will make seeking worse.B This is a lot like a badly fragmented but mostly empty disk, whereA a disk defragmenter can help performance a lot, mostly by keeping  the seeks short.  2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:26:25 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> % Subject: Re: Can Pagefile be too big? 9 Message-ID: <RPYsb.30322$Vu6.20388@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:IOlcjxkIGOXM@eisner.encompasserve.org... 4 > In article <3FB31A71.95782D68@istop.com>, JF Mezei# <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  > > Mike Naime wrote: K > >> you can see the Pagefile filling up, Pagefile full...System attempting  toK > >> continue  messages that might be produced.  We asked HP how/when these  where K > >> generated.  They responded that there was no rhyme/reason for when the  > >> message would come out, > > D > > These are essentially a symptom of some users having too great a
 pgfilquotaE > > in their UAF. At the first message, you kill off any TPU session. 	 Editing a 8 > > large file will consume much space in the page file. > K > I look at it differently.  It's not that the users have too much pagefile E > quota.  It's that the users are using more page file than you have.   L No end users to kill. :-)  Just the App/Oracle processes.  When your App hasI memory leaks... it eventually runs out of page file space, or you have to  cycle your app processes.     F > You have two choices:  Reduce page file demand or increase page file supply.  > C > Page file quota is a tool to control page file demand.  Blow up a E > user application with an "insufficient virtual memory" error and it ( > will tend to use less page file space. > 
 > John Briggs    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:15:36 GMT ( From: "P. Thompson" <no-spam@new.rr.com>8 Subject: Re: DECserver reloads over internet VPN tunnelsI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0311132112430.4866-100000@malacandra.localnet>   ; If you can get a linux box on site run mopd to reload them.   " On 12 Nov 2003, Rich Jordan wrote:  D > We are looking at taking down our last MUXserver based remote siteF > network and replacing it with internet connections and VPN tunnels. B > Since the sites are retaining terminals and serial printers, theB > remote DECmuxen will be replaced with TCP/IP capable DECservers.   ------------------------------  6 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:17 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)9 From: duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald)  Subject: Re: Erasing a disk A Message-ID: <memo.20031113201747.2780A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>      M > Interesting how people will go to extremes to wipe off hard drives, but one 5 > rarely hears about safe ways to erase backup tapes.  >  Tapes burn very well.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 12:16:47 -0800. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)& Subject: Re: Erasing disks: conclusion= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0311131216.2a005b07@posting.google.com>   n bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<bp08ka$1ij9hd$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>...5 > In article <cLNEMb0U8xb9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 > 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > > I > > 	Firearms are a fast method.  Another trick is to drill through them   > > 	with a power drill. > >  > > > Unless you drilled every square inch of the platters I doubt? > that would do any good.  I remember seeing a demo decades ago < > (it involved 8" floppies) where the disk was taken out and< > holes were punched in it with a paper punch.  The recoveryA > service then recovered everything except the bits that actually ; > occupied the locations of the holes.  More than enough to $ > reconstruct much of the lost data. > ; > If it really matters, I would imagine melting the disk is   > really the only true solution. >  > bill  1 Here are two posts from the past discussing this:   E I particularly like the second one, as it displays a solution that is  both twisted and very, very funny.   T http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=0033000061571262000002L022*%40MHS&output=gplain  Z http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CC7A748.90D725C4%40mcmail.maricopa.edu&output=gplain   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:01:19 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Re: Erasing disks: conclusion- Message-ID: <87y8uk2iv4.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> writes:   E > these. Finally, given that the data sensitivity in question relates C > to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward factor that Hoff mentions is @ > very significant. So, the suggestions of physical destruction,F > including the possible use of firearms, which I first passed over asA > amusing are now considered as the most reasonable alternatives.   A The other thing I would add, is to set up and keep a log or other ? records of all your drives, so if, ah when, questions are asked > you can point to the data. Having a witness to the trashing is also not a bad idea.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:05:57 +0100 ? From: Roland Mainz <roland.mainz@informatik.med.uni-giessen.de> 5 Subject: Re: Fonts for printing from a decwindows app = Message-ID: <3FB470C5.EF916082@informatik.med.uni-giessen.de>    Robert Trawinski wrote:  [snip]; > New version of DECwindows (1.3) support Xprint extension.   < Can you provide a "xdpyinfo" output of that server, please ?   > I've neverD > used in my work this extension but maybe it is solution for you. IB > suppose that Xprint software can use all fonts known to Xserver. > H > There is another reason to use Xprint. When you display application onJ > remote display (for example PC Xserver) you can print on localy attachedJ > (Xserver site) printer. Many Xservers support now Xprint extension. Look< > at http://www.x.org/ to get more information about Xprint.  A Or simply take a look at http://xprint.mozdev.org/ (which hosts a ? mailinglist for Xprint-specific questions... :) ... the info on 3 http://www.x.org/ is currently quite generic... ;-(    ----   Bye, Roland   --     __ .  . __8  (o.\ \/ /.o) Roland.Mainz@informatik.med.uni-giessen.de<   \__\/\/__/  MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer5   /O /==\ O\  TEL +49 2426 901568 FAX +49 2426 901569 
  (;O/ \/ \O;)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:24:06 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 0 Message-ID: <bp0i86$6e2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  + >>Itanium fails allmost all these criteria. " >>You may have to modify you apps. >  > N > Why?  On what OS?  Is it specific to the Itanium architecture?  Or somethingL > that has to do with a specialized system and code specificly optimized for > it?  >    Why ??  < Well becasuse the SGI is a NUMA system with a very different8 architecture to the Dome which is also NUMA. It gets its; scalability not by scaling indevidual instances of RH Linux 5 but instead by having a number of instances and using 6 SGI's Global shared memory to communicated between the4 instances. You program for this using SHMEM a set of* SGI libraries or SGI's MPI implimentation.  6 Now I am anticipating that you will now say thats what SGI do and to hell with them.   9 If you do then you have again missed the point. Intel and = HP are selling Itanium as the 64bit CPU that will commoditise A the large server market. Thats what "Industry Standard" computing 
 is all about.   = If you have a situation as you do today where the two largest ? suppliers of big Itanium based systems have diverged to a point ; where you can't run the same OS and apps on either platform : reliably then the Industry Standard campaign means exactly nothing in practice.   > & >>The OS's are certainly not commodity >  > M > What the heck is your point?  The question (and I hate to remind you of it) J > was if the CORE LOGIC chipsets required changes to applications.  In theK > 98.9% case the answer is NO, unless you have done something very specific L > (not generally an APPLICATION thing) to take advantage of a feature and DO: > NOT have a fallback for when the feature does not exist. > B Most of the Itanium boxes sold so far in fact the vast majority of@ Itanium boxes sold so far are HPC systems either from HP or SGI.C Want to guess how compatible the majority of applications currently B running on Itanium are across the itanium systems platforms on the market ?   > < >>The hardware isn't either at least not from HP, Unisys and: >>SGI the 3 main vendors producting large Itanium systems. >> >  > I > You are not talking to the question, just the blah, blah, blah FUD that ! > Itanium isn't a commodity part.  >   8 You don't seem to have read your own marketing please do6 it at least will keep you quite for a bit and possibly* embarass you though who knows on that one.  5 Its called Industry Standard Computing it claims that 5 this will deliver compatible, scalable small to large 2 64bit servers based on commodity Itanium hardware.  ; Which bit of this claim do you understand to be incorrect ?   A >>Umm do you have any idea how a UNIX kernel works, ever heard of  >>dynamic kernels. >> >  > M > Sure.  But despite the 20 year old technology, most UNIXs have user build a G > kernel optimized for the platform they are on.  But still - this is a  > irrelevant side topic. >  > A Sorry this is total and utter BS. Solaris and AIX don't work this ( way for example and that is most UNIX's.  ? The same OS build for Solaris runs on 1 way UltraII servers and @ 106 way UltraIII servers. UltraII and UltraIII/IIIi are somewhat< different and the systems architectures of the platforms are< entirely different. UltraII systems for example are not NUMA= some of the UltraIII servers are but they run the same kernel 9 and if you have a NUMA system you get MPO which is a NUMA < optimisation of the VM. If you don't have a NUMA system then MPO doesn't run.  A The same AIX 5.2L kernel runs on NUMA and non NUMA Power systems. - Again the VM adapts to the different systems.   @ On the P690 AIX supports something called Memory Affinity on the- the same kernel on a non NUMA system doesn't.   ; BTW if it was an irrelevant side topic why the F**K did you ; introduce it how much of twit do you want to end up looking  like ?  J >>Ohh but it is because Itanium presents a veneer of "standards" which the6 >>individual developers ignore (because they have to). >> >  > M > Huh?  I guess this is the statement of someone who hasn't a clue about what 5 > they are talking about.  Go back to your sales job.  >  > E >>I guess it takes an idiot to appear to know one Freddy and you just  >>proved that. >> >  > N > No.  You have shown once again that you don't understand squat.  Because youH > don't really get it, your answers are complete non-sequitors.  This isN > because you are putting a thin veneer of technical competence on top of your# > inch deep marketing capabilities.  >   1 How many times have we argued in this newsgroup ? 0 How many times have you ended up descending into0 name calling (remember I responded to your idiot) name calling not the other way arround) ? 2 How many times have you ended up slinking off into the undergrowth ?   / If my capabilites are so inadequate both from a 1 technical standpoint and a "marketing standpoint" - how do you explain your poor historical track  record ?   Regards  Anrew Harrison   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:01:47 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 2 Message-ID: <vyQsb.8970$YE7.8831@news.cpqcorp.net>  E Andrew, you are clueless.  You confuse platform features with the CPU L architecture, and bring platform architecture that *might* be interesting toL specialized low-level kernel and library code - and try to turn it into FUD.H I can show you specialized IA32 core logic chipsets that require specialL low-level logic to allow an OS to operate - does that somehow invalidate theJ IA32 architecture?  If someone creates core logic to allow a AMD64 chip toC have 1024 CPU's (which the AMD64 core logic infrastructure does not J support) - does that somehow invalidate the AMD64 architecture?  Shouldn'tJ AMD be able to plug into a generic IA32 motherboard?  Cray needed to writeI special fair lock code for their Alpha based SC (and couldn't use the DEC D core logic) - and NT doesn't run on it - does that invalidate Alpha?H Because you can't run a "commodity OS" (code words for Windows) on Sparc does that invalidate Sparc?   B You branch out is so many wrong directions, that responding to youJ eventually becomes futile because you are no longer remotely talking aboutK the original question (because you have led things down spurrious paths due D to your total lack of a clue - or perhaps on purpose as part of your marketing function).   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 13:28:28 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 3 Message-ID: <q$jgIbEsKo9B@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <bp0i86$6e2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  N >> Sure.  But despite the 20 year old technology, most UNIXs have user build aH >> kernel optimized for the platform they are on.  But still - this is a >> irrelevant side topic.  >>   >>  C > Sorry this is total and utter BS. Solaris and AIX don't work this * > way for example and that is most UNIX's.  E    They certainly do.  Your own ignorance of what goes into a Solaris <    build and how it loads on different Suns is just amazing.  E    What you go on to dicuss in terms of things like how the VM adapts 0    to the system is exactly what Fred is saying.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 13:30:45 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 3 Message-ID: <p8idVuJZOub5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <vyQsb.8970$YE7.8831@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: > D > You branch out is so many wrong directions, that responding to youL > eventually becomes futile because you are no longer remotely talking aboutM > the original question (because you have led things down spurrious paths due F > to your total lack of a clue - or perhaps on purpose as part of your > marketing function). >    	Historically.     	It is spinning.    G 	Whether attempting to debate Sun's decline, Zinc Whiskers or whatever  E 	feature or factoid, you suddenly are talking about something else.   E 	Even if you are so tedious to go back and copy EXACTLY what he said  G 	and attempt him to respond to the original - doesn't matter.  Off you    	go down some other rabbit hole.  A 	Don't fret, folks that follow these threads whether interjecting C 	or watching the interchange are wise enough to know who is FUDDing A 	who.  The chief FUDmeister?  That would be our British Champion.    				Rob    N "Of the whole rabble of thieves, the fools are the worst; they rob you of both.  time and peace of mind."         --Goethe       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:18:47 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results ) Message-ID: <3FB3E725.A3C46C1C@istop.com>    jlsue wrote:L > Specific CPU issues (like EV79 vs EV7z) themselves are seen as unimportant4 > by nearly all of the customers I work with daily -  K It isn't so much the specific issue, but rather HP's behaviour. Perhaps the I overwhelming lack of visibility and marketing/actions to support VMS make N Alpha's broken promise pale in comparison when the time comes to evaluate long8 term strategy on what platform a company would build on.  K However, every broken promise and every opportunity HP takes to mention all L operating systems EXCEPT VMS just add one more nail to the coffin, making itM that much easier for anti-VMS folks in a shop to convince the bosses that VMS L isn't the way to go and that they should stop listening to the VMS loyalists0 and instead go with Unix/Linux/Windows/whatever.  L We, the loyalists, can sell VMS on its technical merits. But because of HP'sN behaviour, we cannot sell VMS as a long term platform because the vendor can't be trusted.   L Routers are a good example. Look at the number of firms who no longer botherB supporting DECNET. That is a sign that they don't expect their VMSK infrastructure to grow and VMS to go away "soon" so why bother paying extra $ for DECnet support on their network.    K Instead of trying to change the tide and change negative opinions of people ) about VMS, HP has been re-enforcing them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:26 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results ) Message-ID: <3FB3E878.70F3AA77@istop.com>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > Compilers know *nothing* about core logic chips.  Come on.  Core logic chipsL > glue memory and IO to the CPU.  Low level OS and firmware code knows aboutM > core logic chips where it is exposed and interesting.  It is transparent to  > the application.  L Based on the above, it is correct to state then that VMS itself will want to: take advantage of certain proprietary bits in HP systems ?  F It is correct to state that should some other IA64 vendor develop someI proprietary chps that are better than HP's, the VMS engineers will not berN producing a version of VMS that makes use of those different proprietary chips at the low level ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:00:19 -0500A* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultss) Message-ID: <3FB3F0DE.2A9AF0F9@istop.com>m   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > I can show you specialized IA32 core logic chipsets that require specialN > low-level logic to allow an OS to operate - does that somehow invalidate the > IA32 architecture? i    K It depends. If the vast majority of 8086s are true "industry standard" with?M just a few instances of specialized proprietary 8086 systems, then it doesn't?) invalidate the 8086 as industry standard.e  @ But if the vast majroity of IA64 systems are used in proprietaryM implementations,  then it does invalidate the "industry standard" claims fromp Carly and company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:07:00 +0800n, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com># Subject: Re: Main memory for galaxyh- Message-ID: <87u1582iln.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes:o  D > I am not sure what you want to accomplish, but the only differenceC > between a OpenVMS system that is part of a Galaxy and one that is D > not (with respect to memory, that is), is that a Galaxy member has> > shared memory. The SHOW MEMORY command will display both the# > non-shared and the shared memory.s  : But it will not show any memory owned by another instance.  ; GCU can do this I think, so you can find out all the memorye in the box using it. I think...e   -- M< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 21:46:18 -0800- From: bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede)A# Subject: Re: Main memory for galaxy-< Message-ID: <8a3b834.0311132146.40d5aac4@posting.google.com>   Hi,   2  I would like to Thank  every one for your inputs.4 I will try to look in to GCU if I can find anything.   Rgds,s Bhushant  a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87u1582iln.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...o- > Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes:  > F > > I am not sure what you want to accomplish, but the only differenceE > > between a OpenVMS system that is part of a Galaxy and one that iseF > > not (with respect to memory, that is), is that a Galaxy member has@ > > shared memory. The SHOW MEMORY command will display both the% > > non-shared and the shared memory.1 > < > But it will not show any memory owned by another instance. > = > GCU can do this I think, so you can find out all the memoryg! > in the box using it. I think...w   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 21:27:24 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) O Subject: Re: New CDRTOOLS (CDRECORD, MKISOFS (incl. UDF/DVD), CDDA2WAV, CDREAD) 3 Message-ID: <bwY7oE8okUcF@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  n In article <BRNsb.8950$yi7.4165@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:& >> dvdrecord is an illegal hack, so my2 >> DVDwrite program is the OpenVMS program for DVD >> burning(PLUS/MINUS/RAM).- > ( > Does this mean it can write DVD+R/+RW?   > Is it free (OpenSource)?  E It was not when I bought a copy, but it cost less than three tanks of 	 gasoline.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:29:46 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>U/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?)0 Message-ID: <bp0iiq$6f7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically.  So it0 > is a good place to invest your personal money. >    UMMMMM so was Enrona   Regards  Andrew Harrisons; > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagen6 > news:bp0eqp$1j1noi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de... > 2 >>In article <sDNsb.510$4B.15185@news.uswest.net>,< >>"Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes: >>I >>>This report is based on a third party, AMD's Chief Technology Officer.R >  > Notb > * >>>exactly an unbiased source, now, is it? >>> >>Well, that's not exactly true.  The Inquirer is reporting on> >>what "MICROPROCESSOR REPORT guru Peter Glaskowsky" said.  He? >>just happens to agree with what "AMD chief technology officer = >>Fred Weber" said at a conference.  He further refers to the = >>comments of an un-specified OEM engineer to further support < >>his opinion.  What it all comes down to is who to believe.= >>Of course, time will tell.  I for one will not be investing : >>any personal money in Intel as I have long believed that >>IA64  was the wrong horse. >> >>bill >> >>8 >>>"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message: >>>news:d7791aa1.0311130620.7bc0f319@posting.google.com... >>>f7 >>>>this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe sincep6 >>>>windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha that2 >>>>they should just make ev8-9 and use that as an  >>>>alternative to amds junk ... >>>> >>>>- >>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654  >>>t >>>l >>-- tL >>Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF >>bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >>University of Scranton   |@ >>Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:44:07 GMTr# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?fH Message-ID: <XhQsb.52775$HoK.45171@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:G > But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically. 6 > So it is a good place to invest your personal money.     Standard Disclaimer:6 Past performance is not a guarantee of future results.  H That, or variant thereof, is required by the SEC on all prospectuses andF research reports. Same can be said for any product in the marketplace.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 12:51:57 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?g3 Message-ID: <F91hfQu$40EO@eisner.encompasserve.org>m   In article <bp0iiq$6f7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:O >> But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically.  So ite1 >> is a good place to invest your personal money.  >> u >  > UMMMMM so was Enront >   B 	And unfortunately many had stock in Enron for company retirement.   	Intel is no Enron.  h  - 	Looking at companies whose fortune has fadedoB 	and will probably never rebound to the glory days look at Nortel,D 	$4 bucks a share and change today - $100 a few years back.  Others?D 	Sun comes to mind - $4 bucks a share and change today, consistently: 	declining revenues over the last 2 years.   A market cap @ 	of $200 billion a few years ago - $13 billion and change today.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:02:40 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>t/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?u2 Message-ID: <kzQsb.8971$RE7.5456@news.cpqcorp.net>  L Now isn't that non-sequitor.  You are so special.  If you had invested money< in Sun in CY 2000, how much money would you have left today?      K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e; wrote in message news:bp0iiq$6f7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...v > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > > But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically.= So it=2 > > is a good place to invest your personal money. > >  >a > UMMMMM so was Enron  > 	 > Regardss > Andrew Harrisone= > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageH8 > > news:bp0eqp$1j1noi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de... > >n4 > >>In article <sDNsb.510$4B.15185@news.uswest.net>,> > >>"Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes: > >>K > >>>This report is based on a third party, AMD's Chief Technology Officer.a > >  > > Note > >p, > >>>exactly an unbiased source, now, is it? > >>@ > >>Well, that's not exactly true.  The Inquirer is reporting on@ > >>what "MICROPROCESSOR REPORT guru Peter Glaskowsky" said.  HeA > >>just happens to agree with what "AMD chief technology officery? > >>Fred Weber" said at a conference.  He further refers to them? > >>comments of an un-specified OEM engineer to further supporte> > >>his opinion.  What it all comes down to is who to believe.? > >>Of course, time will tell.  I for one will not be investingh< > >>any personal money in Intel as I have long believed that > >>IA64  was the wrong horse. > >> > >>bill > >> > >>: > >>>"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message< > >>>news:d7791aa1.0311130620.7bc0f319@posting.google.com... > >>>e9 > >>>>this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe sinceo8 > >>>>windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha that4 > >>>>they should just make ev8-9 and use that as an" > >>>>alternative to amds junk ... > >>>> > >>>>/ > >>>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654t > >>>i > >>>d > >>-- aG > >>Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threep wolvesH > >>bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > >>University of Scranton   |B > >>Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> > >t > >  > >g >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:06:30 GMTF9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>o/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?O2 Message-ID: <WCQsb.8972$kF7.3499@news.cpqcorp.net>  
 Weasle words.   G Past performance in general *is* one *predictor* of future performance.d  There are no guarantees in life.    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:XhQsb.52775$HoK.45171@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > > But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically..8 > > So it is a good place to invest your personal money. >i >v > Standard Disclaimer:8 > Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. >-J > That, or variant thereof, is required by the SEC on all prospectuses andH > research reports. Same can be said for any product in the marketplace. >r >e   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 13:19:19 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?t3 Message-ID: <JU4WRPww8958@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  h In article <d7791aa1.0311130620.7bc0f319@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:5 > this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe since-4 > windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha that0 > they should just make ev8-9 and use that as an > alternative to amds junk ...  F    Based on one anecdote on translated x86 images.  And in the face of<    links recently posted on c.o.v that claimed sales are up.  ;    Sales are always up when the new toy is done for, right?d   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 13:21:35 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?w3 Message-ID: <ByZOoRdoyDI6@eisner.encompasserve.org>z   In article <bp0iiq$6f7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:O >> But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically.  So ita1 >> is a good place to invest your personal money.  >> r >  > UMMMMM so was Enront > 	 > Regards, > Andrew Harrisont  *    Ah, we hear from the glass house again.  G    If you got into Sun when it was selling 68K workstations and got outr3    a few years ago, you could have made a tidy sum.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:34:59 GMTn9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> / Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?l2 Message-ID: <D1Rsb.8977$Jo7.1438@news.cpqcorp.net>   We are all doing non-sequitors.a  G "I'm not investing my personal money in Intel" -- over Itanium.  It's amJ silly statement if the concern is a return on your investment - perhaps itL means "I hate Intel so I won't invest in them", or "this makes me think they must be stupid".  F Historically, you'd be wrong.  Intel is hugely profitable, and holds aL virtual monopoly in the microprocessor space.  You might hate Microsoft, forK example, but it's made far more people money that it has lost money for --   as an investment.y  G Andy wants to throw stones from left field, hey - Sun stock is a stones E throw away...  they are teetering on that ledge that DEC fell off of.a  L Why not just say "I hate Intel, I will resist buying their products, I won'tK buy their stock, I will stick my fingers in my ears when they advertise, ifsH we can't have Alpha - heck will freeze over before I accept Intel as theG future for VMS, I hate Compaq, and by transference I will hate HP untilrL Carly says she is sorry and the first 4 layers of management are fired along with the BOD".  L It is a much more precise answer for not such anger/dislike/angst over IA64.    H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ByZOoRdoyDI6@eisner.encompasserve.org...mH > In article <bp0iiq$6f7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK; Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:S > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > >> But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically. So itt3 > >> is a good place to invest your personal money.h > >> > >b > > UMMMMM so was Enronk > >e > > Regardsh > > Andrew Harrisonh >t, >    Ah, we hear from the glass house again. > I >    If you got into Sun when it was selling 68K workstations and got outl5 >    a few years ago, you could have made a tidy sum.a >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:07:15 -0500s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?e) Message-ID: <3FB3E472.170E8FB1@istop.com>s   Bob Ceculski wrote:a+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654e  M Considering that a company such as AMD exists because they were able to clonehK Intel's 8086 processors, I don't understand why Intel would have to pay AMDoL for rights to develop a 64 bit 8086 that would , by pure coincidence, happen( to be compatible with AMD's 64 bit 8086.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:47:47 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?R) Message-ID: <3FB3EDEF.74DF8425@istop.com>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > N > But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically.  So it0 > is a good place to invest your personal money.  M What intel has done in the past doesn't mean it will automatically do as welll in the future.  J Lets speculate that Intel has to admit that IA64 is a very costly flop andI that it will always cost more than it generates in revenus. Lets say thateM Intel admits to having sunk 347.372 billion into IA64 and will never get that L money back. Lets say AMD's 64 bit 8086 starts to reduce Intel's market shareU in the 8086 market. Lets say that all those news come out fairly close to each other.   1 You bet that Intel's stock woulkd take a thumble.e  H Intel has been seen as an invincible monopoly. That is why it was a goodM investment. But the minute Intel's errors start to show up in accounting, andaK the minute Intel's strategic errors show up in market share, investors willA drop Intel like a hot potato.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:57:50 -0500s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip? ) Message-ID: <3FB3F049.F8058ABF@istop.com>    Rob Young wrote:6 >         Looking at companies whose fortune has fadedK >         and will probably never rebound to the glory days look at Nortel,iE >         $4 bucks a share and change today - $100 a few years back. 3  ! And less than a dollar last year.n  K Nortel, during the .com boom, was in a race against Lucent and Cisco to seeDK which one could invest the most in companies that had no future, since suchn" practice was THE ticket to riches.  H Nortel has had to scale back from those days because almost all its .comG investments failed royally and had to be written off. Its core business N (telephony) had been "abandonned" during the .com era, but that is what NortelJ had had to fallback on. (that was the "hard" assets Nortel had, wheras the  other were virtual .com assets).  L Now, look at Intel: if it is forced to announce that its IA64 is a financialC flop and all investments will have to be written off, because thosejN investments were not trivial, such a move would very nagitevly affect Intel onJ the stock market. On the heels of AMD's 64 bit 8086, if Intel has to admitG that not only was IA64 not a wise investment, but its focus on IA64 haspJ resulted in Intel not having a 64 bit 8086 to compete against AMD would be& very bad news for intel's stock price.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:02:59 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?G) Message-ID: <3FB3F17E.7FEA735F@istop.com>j   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > Past performance in general *is* one *predictor* of future performance.u" > There are no guarantees in life.  L When a company is more of less stable with the same product line it keeps onY improving, then perhaps yes, past performance is a good indication of future performance.   D But when the company is attempting to change the industry with a newM architecture, and that new architecture hasn't caught on at all, and not onlyeN that, but that focus has caused Intel to fall behind because other compatitorsL have come up with better versions of the original architecture, then I'd say all bets are off.u  K If the press starts to criticise Intel for having wasted so much money withlM IA64 and falling behind AMD, then Intel will lose its "favorite stock" status 
 very fast.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:06:18 -0500e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?o) Message-ID: <3FB3F245.F4DA4844@istop.com>L   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > Why not just say "I hate Intel, I will resist buying their products, I won'tM > buy their stock, I will stick my fingers in my ears when they advertise, if1J > we can't have Alpha - heck will freeze over before I accept Intel as theI > future for VMS, I hate Compaq, and by transference I will hate HP untillN > Carly says she is sorry and the first 4 layers of management are fired along > with the BOD".    M Yeah ! Yeah ! We've succeeded in turning Mr Kleinsorge from the bad side overt to our side :-)    :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-) :-) ;-) ;-)p  M (Although I suspect that deep down, he has always been on the right side, butsO has been forced to portray himself as the enemy in order to keep his paycheck).    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 15:51:06 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?n3 Message-ID: <YGqENpwYhNZj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3FB3F17E.7FEA735F@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > M > If the press starts to criticise Intel for having wasted so much money withWO > IA64 and falling behind AMD, then Intel will lose its "favorite stock" statusl > very fast. >h  D 	Yeah, as if the press can swing things.  We are talking money here,+ 	it isn't a Presidential election you know.   ( 	Regarding money, Intel looks like this:  $ http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=INTC  A 	Look at gross profit - 3-4 billion a quarter.  After taking intodE 	account expenses, look at Net Income, about a billion a quarter (1.6 G 	billion this last quarter) making or (clearing) $4.5 billion a year.  uG 	Look at Research and Development, a billion a quarter, IA64 is a drop eH 	in the bucket.  Look at gross margins (found elsewhere) , very healthy G 	15%.  You can wait around for Intel to slip but they just announced a n< 	new process that will be coming online - high-k , replacing 	silicon (1) to allow chips to  C 	run much cooler.  Point is, they aren't slipping nor losing their  E 	edge, that is why their stock is on the upswing.  That and the fact t4 	they are taking market share from AMD , bit by bit.   				Robt     Various snips:  D (1) http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20031105tech.htm  M Intel researchers have developed record-setting, high-performance transistorstL using a new material, called high-k, for the "gate dielectric" and new metalE materials for the transistor "gate." Transistors are the microscopic,sL silicon-based switches that process the ones and zeros of the digital world.F The gate turns the transistor on and off and the gate dielectric is anM insulator underneath it that controls the flow of electric current. Together, J the new gate and gate dielectric materials help drastically reduce currentN leakage that leads to reduced battery power and generates unwanted heat. IntelL said the new high-k material reduces leakage by more than 100 times over the0 silicon dioxide used for the past three decades.  M Intel has successfully shrunk the silicon dioxide gate dielectric to sizes asaN small as 1.2 nanometers (nm) thick, which is equal to only five atomic layers.N As the silicon dioxide material gets thinner, electric current leakage throughO the gate dielectric increases and leads to wasted current and unnecessary heat.uO To keep electrons flowing in the proper location and solve this critical issue,tM Intel plans to replace the current material with a thicker high-k material inf= the gate dielectric, significantly reducing current leakage. p  L Transistors with these new materials are an option targeted to be integratedM into future Intel processors as early as 2007, as part of the company's 45-nm  manufacturing process.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:54:14 +0100t From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?g2 Message-ID: <bp12ag$d5b$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Bob Ceculski wrote:r5 > this says Intel itanium is done for ... maybe since 4 > windows 2000 has already been ported to alpha that0 > they should just make ev8-9 and use that as an > alternative to amds junk ... >   P Please don't forget that many of the designers of the AMD64 came form the Alpha O team. There are many similarities between the AMD64 and the Alpha EV7. Not the eO instruction set of course, but look at the embedded memory controller, and the yD all the stuff for fast inter-processor communication. And downwards  compatibility ...h   > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12654n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:06:07 +0100a From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?t2 Message-ID: <bp130m$gmr$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > But you'd be making a large profit had you bet on Intel historically.  So it0 > is a good place to invest your personal money. > ? Well Fred, you of all people should know how little that means.q  P Digital once was the nr. 2 in the world, the nr. 1 in networks, and look at the  sad remains now .....a  L And since Intel stuff is throw-away material, you will not find 15 year old ' Intel boxes faithfully doing their job.w  @ If Intel goes bankrupt today, they will be forgotten quite soon.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 17:56:25 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip?o= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0311131756.3a160df2@posting.google.com>   s "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<D1Rsb.8977$Jo7.1438@news.cpqcorp.net>...u! > We are all doing non-sequitors.p > I > "I'm not investing my personal money in Intel" -- over Itanium.  It's a L > silly statement if the concern is a return on your investment - perhaps itN > means "I hate Intel so I won't invest in them", or "this makes me think they > must be stupid". > H > Historically, you'd be wrong.  Intel is hugely profitable, and holds aN > virtual monopoly in the microprocessor space.  You might hate Microsoft, forM > example, but it's made far more people money that it has lost money for -- h > as an investment.f  C How do you figure this? I was advised in Mar 2000 to buy MSFT (thenhD about $55) and in only 2 months it nose-dived to $31. (Fortunately IF didn't buy any, but I bet many did!) And MSFT is now at about $26, not; much above its 5-yr. low of about $21.72 (based on graph atrA Fideltiy.com). And for most of this 5 years it has been above itsnE current price. I suppose some lucky investors got to buy low and selleB high, but in the long term it doesn't look that good. Sure, $26 isA more than $22, but you would have to have been very lucky to havee3 bought it for much under $26 over the last 5 years.g  D How do you know how many people made and lost money on it? Is this aA published statistic? I suppose you could say it has made far moregC money for *some* than many other stocks. But half of all people whodA ever held MSFT shares made money on them? How do you figure that?   
 Just asking. u   [...]w   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmand   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:37:02 -0500s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: Only hope for Intel is alpha chip? ) Message-ID: <3FB43FB9.1C372F82@istop.com>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:E > How do you figure this? I was advised in Mar 2000 to buy MSFT (thennF > about $55) and in only 2 months it nose-dived to $31. (Fortunately IH > didn't buy any, but I bet many did!) And MSFT is now at about $26, not= > much above its 5-yr. low of about $21.72 (based on graph att > Fideltiy.com).    L I despise Microsoft, but in fairness, they did have a stock split (2 for 1).F So a $26 share today is similar to a $52 share before the stock split.  J Microsoft has had to start issuing dividends in order to make shareholdersL feel they were getting a return on investment. And a $0.10 dividend is twice= the return on investment when the stock is at $25 versus $50.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:14:30 +0100n* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>* Subject: Re: OT: an example of a modern OS0 Message-ID: <3FB41E66.318050FC@sture.homeip.net>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 9 > "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in messagea, > news:3FB3BE8D.1C8AEDEF@sture.homeip.net... > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > >sM > > > Yes.  You need Motif V1.3 (on V7.3-1) or V1.3-1 (which comes on V7.3-2)A > > >rN > > > Warning for all - V7.3-2 does not give you the option of using any Motif  > > > version older than V1.3-1. > > >  > >uK > > Can you please clarify? Do you mean it is mandatory to upgrade Motif asoK > > part of a V7.3-2 upgrade, or simply that no previous versions to V1.3-1d$ > > are shipped on the V7.3-2 CD(s)? > >h > 3 > Manditory upgrade.  Yeah, I know that this sucks.r > L > The changes made required incompatable changes to the transport layer, andJ > the way that the X11/Motif bits are split up between the OS and Motif LP/ > made it very hard to not require the upgrade.l > I > The V1.3 kit was provided for V7.3-1 to allow people to move to the new M > version and make sure all is well.  For the most part, the change should be L > transparent.  Just more up to date XLIB/XT bits, some new extensions, etc. > M > One of the major changes was that the client libraries had been being built L > on a VAX using cross compiler tools and libraries that predate Version 1.0K > of Alpha (I kid you not).  They just *had* to be able to start using CRTLsM > features (for example) that had been available for a half dozen years - andt- > a C compiler that didn't start with T1.xxx.s  - Thanks for the update Fred. Much appreciated.t   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 13:05:50 -0800- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)k@ Subject: Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' "= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0311131305.595344d3@posting.google.com>b  ? How could I put bold characters in request command, like this :   7 Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' "t   Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 16:04:22 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)rD Subject: Re: Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' "3 Message-ID: <3vFFBoUQw5N$@eisner.encompasserve.org>9  m In article <ddf392ea.0311131305.595344d3@posting.google.com>, contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) writes:iA > How could I put bold characters in request command, like this :c > 9 > Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' "  >  > Thanks in advance.  5    It depends on what kind of terminal it's going to.y   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:45:58 GMTt6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)D Subject: Re: Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' "1 Message-ID: <GQTsb.39484$W7.31519@news.chello.at>a  m In article <ddf392ea.0311131305.595344d3@posting.google.com>, contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) writes:m@ >How could I put bold characters in request command, like this : >o8 >Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' "  G Not at all. For security reasons, OPCOM removes nonprintable characterss and replaces them by a dot.n  L You want a user to switch your oper terminal in a permanent self test loop ?   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialisty E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:35:28 +0000 (UTC)j, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)D Subject: Re: Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' ". Message-ID: <bp180g$570$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes in article <3vFFBoUQw5N$@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 13 Nov 2003 16:04:22 -0600:ln >In article <ddf392ea.0311131305.595344d3@posting.google.com>, contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) writes:B >> How could I put bold characters in request command, like this : >> u: >> Request " ''BOLD' Error in process BDUGKSH  ''NORMAL' "  6 >   It depends on what kind of terminal it's going to.  D I'd be surprised if the OS let through any unprintable characters.  D Especially a command intended to send a message from an unprivilegedC user to a privileged one.  It would open the door to deception and   more.t  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 13:15:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o< Subject: Re: Traceback information for EXEs linked with /DSF3 Message-ID: <FfxXdtabZFlP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <00A28D41.9D6493BC.8@tachysoft.com>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes: > L > Debug is simply a flag in the image header.  You can easily turn it off byI > clearing the bit.  I have posted a program that does this in the past. -( > Somebody else had a command procedure.  F    True for VAX and Alpha image headers, but we've been warned that it     won't be that simple for I64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:42:55 -0500n* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: Re: Using DELIVER over DECNet) Message-ID: <3FB3ECCB.726E27B2@istop.com>o   Peter Weaver wrote:l; > then DELIVER works great. If we send mail from one of thea > other 28 boxes we geto; >     %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport DELIVERS  K This generally means that VMSmail  failed to find the shareable image. This?K generally means that a logical name is missing when decnet mail is invoked,rF OR, in some cases, that mail attempts to activate the transport on theO sender's node instead of recipient's node (I have seen a few examples of this).   J On the target node, you may wish to look at the log files generated by the MAIL$SERVER account.     [sys0.mail$server]netserver.log>  N Also, I believe that there are logicals to get MAIL to log more information toL that file. Can't remember them, but if you google this newsgroul, you should find it.  J This may sound stupid, but does the MAIL$SERVER account have access to the7 shareable images ? Are the shareable images installed ?e  J Do you have the MAIL$PROTOCOL_DELIVER logical defined in executive mode to1 contain part of the name of the shareable image ?   M for instance, for MR% , MAIL$PROTOCOL_MR points to MRFROMVMS which is used too find SYS$LIBRARY:MRFROMVMS.EXE   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:59:03 -0700l+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>-) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Software3' Message-ID: <3FB40CB7.9000009@MMaz.com>r   Keith A. Lewis wrote:j   >Nathan Hartley <nathan@removethis.ilothlorien.com> writes in article <vr7ef11drh320f@corp.supernews.com> dated Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:05:51 -0500: >  y >wC >>Anyone have an opinion on VMS open-file defragmentation software?m >>K >>I am currently looking at Raxco's Performance Suite and Executive's Disk s	 >>Keeper.a >>     >> >hM >Is that the same thing as "Perfectdisk"?  The software works well, but theirdM >key authentication system was such a pain... When I rebuilt my system disk IsJ >had to call them and beg/buy a new key.  After a couple rounds of this, IL >ended up buying HP's DFO, which works about as well and uses the normal PAK >scheme. >n >  , >6I I've never had a problem obtaining new keys from them.  Did you not have  ; a maintenance contract or, at a minimum, proof of purchase?h   BarryG   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:40:47 GMT-6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Softwareo1 Message-ID: <PLTsb.39370$W7.25240@news.chello.at>a  j In article <vr7ef11drh320f@corp.supernews.com>, Nathan Hartley <nathan@removethis.ilothlorien.com> writes:B >Anyone have an opinion on VMS open-file defragmentation software?  K Yes, I use DEC's DFO/DFG/DEFRAG tool for many years now (running it daily).rF It still has some bugs, but I haven't had a data corruption so far ;-)> And it is also part of the OpenVMS hobbyist license program !!  J >I am currently looking at Raxco's Performance Suite and Executive's Disk  >Keeper.  F I tend to prefer products of the same company as the underlying opsys.F Especially when said software is non-usermode (or using an internal or undocumented API)...   -- b Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:19:34 +0000 (UTC)@, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Softwaree. Message-ID: <bp1aj6$ah0$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  z "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes in article <3FB40CB7.9000009@MMaz.com> dated Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:59:03 -0700:J >I've never had a problem obtaining new keys from them.  Did you not have < >a maintenance contract or, at a minimum, proof of purchase?  J I certainly did do the paperwork for the purchase, Raxco was paid, I triedK to set up maintenance but that failed, somehow (possibly in the bureaucracyiK at my end).  Their issue was that  I had "upgraded" my system (by replacingeH EV4 CPU boards with EV5) and therefore I owed them an "upgrade fee".  OfG course the software didn't detect the upgrade until months later when IS7 reformatted the system disk, which broke the old key.     L My issue now is I should not even have to call somebody when I reconfigure aL system.  Software should come with everything required to run it, except theG hardware of course.  So when you compare HP software to Raxco, keep the> paperwork effect in mind.@  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:32:37 -0700n+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>n) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation SoftwareG% Message-ID: <3FB468F5.10708@MMaz.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  k >In article <vr7ef11drh320f@corp.supernews.com>, Nathan Hartley <nathan@removethis.ilothlorien.com> writes:n >  r > C >>Anyone have an opinion on VMS open-file defragmentation software?  >>     >> >cL >Yes, I use DEC's DFO/DFG/DEFRAG tool for many years now (running it daily).G >It still has some bugs, but I haven't had a data corruption so far ;-) ? >And it is also part of the OpenVMS hobbyist license program !!m >a >  > >wK >>I am currently looking at Raxco's Performance Suite and Executive's Disk e	 >>Keeper.s >>     >> >aG >I tend to prefer products of the same company as the underlying opsys.h >  o > F Yes, if expect that if you recall, Digital years back would state how E dangerous on-line defraging was, so their only 'approved' method was >G backup/restore.  I have to believe that DFO was only developed because eF the likes of Raxco proved otherwise and enabled 24/7 shops to stay up  and running...   Barry    -- n  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        f   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:36:30 -0700s+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>t) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Softwared' Message-ID: <3FB469DE.9000109@MMaz.com>    Keith A. Lewis wrote:   { >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes in article <3FB40CB7.9000009@MMaz.com> dated Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:59:03 -0700:e >  s >qK >>I've never had a problem obtaining new keys from them.  Did you not have f= >>a maintenance contract or, at a minimum, proof of purchase?- >>     >> >3? >Their issue was that  I had "upgraded" my system (by replacinguG >EV4 CPU boards with EV5) and therefore I owed them an "upgrade fee".  f >  E >iG You're being silly.  If you had upgraded your hardware that required a mE change in license pak but you chose not up upgrade your licenses and .I then complained to HP that your software now doesn't work and they don't iC want to issue a key because the license is now invalid, that is no nF different.  Bottom line is that you were in violation of your license G and perhaps Raxco's licensing is light-weight enough to not detect the i< hardware except at installation time, but that is not their 3 responsibility but yours to remain in compliance...s   BarryN   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        f   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 14:26:54 -0600' From: jim@info2.uah.edu (Jim McCullars) $ Subject: Re: VMS Perl Question re LF( Message-ID: <bp0pee$7jj$1@info2.uah.edu>  5 Craig A. Berry (craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler) wrote:-  J : Sure, lots of it.  Start by getting a recent version of Perl.  5.8.2 is J : current.  Anything older than 5.6 is really only of historical interest + : and not recommended for production use.     G    Well, I did find another Compaq "free software" CD that had 5.005 so  I'm getting there :-)6  J : When reading an indexed file containing binary data, the implicit reads I : done by the <> operator are a poor choice.  I'd suggest installing and o7 : using the VMS::IndexedFile extension (available from M  M    That's two replies suggesting basically the same thing.  I think it's timewA for me to check that out.  Thank you (and Brad) for the feedback.8   Jimn   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 14:20:36 -0800% From: jasonbarath@hotmail.com (Jason)-) Subject: VMS- submit queue only runs oncei= Message-ID: <38d332b4.0311131420.64fb6f66@posting.google.com>c  D I have added submit /after="+:5" DKA0:[directory]filename.com to theD end of filename.com.  If I run filename.com the job is submitted theC first time only.  When the job runs it doesnt submit itself again.  C What am I missing here?  I would like this job to sumbit itself and  run every five minutes.o  D Filename.com runs on its own just fine and takes about 10 seconds to complete, with no errors.r   Thanks,    JB   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:24:45 -0600t( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)- Subject: Re: VMS- submit queue only runs oncel1 Message-ID: <03111316244573@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   F > I have added submit /after="+:5" DKA0:[directory]filename.com to theF > end of filename.com.  If I run filename.com the job is submitted theE > first time only.  When the job runs it doesnt submit itself again. iE > What am I missing here?  I would like this job to sumbit itself andt > run every five minutes.    I use two files:   filename.com and  filename_submit.com;     For example:   filename_submit.com; $! $!J $ submit filename_submit.com; /after="+:5" /restart /log /noprint /que=myq $! $!' $ if (f$mode() .nes. "BATCH") then exit  $! $!6 $ submit filename.com; /restart /log /noprint /que=myq $! $!    
 filename.com;n $! your code       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*ns VMS Systems Administratorg* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:29:45 -0500t< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>- Subject: Re: VMS- submit queue only runs oncep: Message-ID: <bp10kq$1icrha$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>   Jason wrote:" > I have added submit /after="+:5"# DKA0:[directory]filename.com to the 8 > end of filename.com.  If I run filename.com the job is
 submitted the0= > first time only.  When the job runs it doesnt submit itself  again. >...  9 What error do you see in the .LOG? Guesses would include; >     - You have a logical SYS$BATCH that is not defined for the	 batch jobD<     - You have a symbol for SUBMIT that is different for the	 batch job <     - The batch job is aborting before you get to the submit0     - Your account does not have access to batch  > Try changing the SUBMIT to SUBMIT/NOPRINT/KEEP and take a look; at the .LOG to see what the error is. (BTW: putting DKA0 ine= the SUBMIT command is bad form, you should try using logicalsO whenever you can.)   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.a Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX7 www.weaverconsulting.ca9   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:31 -0500y* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: VMS- submit queue only runs onceh) Message-ID: <3FB40DB9.E84307BD@istop.com>s   Jason wrote: > F > I have added submit /after="+:5" DKA0:[directory]filename.com to the > end of filename.com. f  I Move it to the top of filename.com. Also, before it, all a SET NOON, thiseL makes your command procedure continue to execute after an error has occured.  K Also, if you stop/id or delete/entry the executing job, chances are that ite. will have already submitted itself to execute.  K You can also look at HELP SYNCHRONIZE wich could be used to ensure that the K second job waits until the first one has finished executing (in cases whereu= system is extremely slow, you advance clock by one hour etc).K  L Another way is to try to set the process name to some fixed name. If the SETK PROC/NAME fails, then you wait a couple of minutes and try again. (it means 8 another job is executing and has set that process name).   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Nov 2003 21:36:25 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: VMS- submit queue only runs onced3 Message-ID: <0GxP+$tZ33Yc@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  e In article <38d332b4.0311131420.64fb6f66@posting.google.com>, jasonbarath@hotmail.com (Jason) writes:RF > I have added submit /after="+:5" DKA0:[directory]filename.com to theF > end of filename.com.  If I run filename.com the job is submitted theE > first time only.  When the job runs it doesnt submit itself again. mE > What am I missing here?  I would like this job to sumbit itself andI > run every five minutes.s > F > Filename.com runs on its own just fine and takes about 10 seconds to > complete, with no errors.e  N Use an executable image and the REPTIM argument to the $SCHDWK system service.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:38:05 -0600t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>y- Subject: Re: VMS- submit queue only runs onceu' Message-ID: <3FB45C2D.BC8833FB@fsi.net>    Jason wrote: > F > I have added submit /after="+:5" DKA0:[directory]filename.com to theF > end of filename.com.  If I run filename.com the job is submitted theD > first time only.  When the job runs it doesnt submit itself again.E > What am I missing here?  I would like this job to sumbit itself ande > run every five minutes.e > F > Filename.com runs on its own just fine and takes about 10 seconds to > complete, with no errors.h  H Sounds like you're accustomed to UN*X and you're expecting SUBMIT to actG like "crontab" instead of "at". SUBMIT is like "at" - one time only. IfgB you want a job to reSUBMIT itself, you'll need to include a SUBMIT command in the job itself.   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Nov 03 14:27:37 -0800/ From: "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>m% Subject: Re: Your mother is so fat...n4 Message-ID: <1487.447T1855T8675496@kltpzyxm.invalid>  B In article <xhHsb.11337$6c3.1982@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>$ zzzzzz@xxx.yyy (Alan Connor) writes:  @ >On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:43:02 GMT, faeychild <nykysle@ph> wrote: > D >>>> For Willy the envelope's rural, to me it's cheap, whereas aboveH >>>> you it's rejecting strange.  To be worthwhile or sad will recollectH >>>> younger floors to regularly arrive.  Almost no rude cars cover Ben,F >>>> and they subtly mould Abdel too.  He may cook the bizarre hen andH >>>> taste it near its barn.  Marian, over games sour and open, measuresE >>>> alongside it, caring cruelly.  It's very bitter today, I'll opentG >>>> smartly or Allahdad will excuse the clouds.  If the easy cases cancB >>>> depart believably, the inner orange may scold more monoliths. >>8 >> Is this twaddle generated by some type of AI program.  1 No, just an attempt to get past the spam filters.c  < >Artificial Intelligence: When the real thing just won't do.  : We might not have artificial intelligence, but we're doing# a good job on artificial stupidity.b  G >As for *simulating* intelligence with a computer, you can do that on a  >286.   < Racter ran on a Z-80 and produced more coherent results thanC the twaddle above.  See "The Policeman's Beard is Half Constructed"a (ISBN 0-446-38051-2).y   --, /~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)= \ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.g@  X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.F / \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:29:02 GMTa" From: Alan Connor <zzzzzz@xxx.yyy>% Subject: Re: Your mother is so fat...aC Message-ID: <2tUsb.11953$6c3.1235@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>e  K On 13 Nov 03 14:27:37 -0800, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:  >  >  > = >>Artificial Intelligence: When the real thing just won't do.r > < > We might not have artificial intelligence, but we're doing% > a good job on artificial stupidity.  >   
 Sad but true.e    H >>As for *simulating* intelligence with a computer, you can do that on a >>286. > > > Racter ran on a Z-80 and produced more coherent results thanE > the twaddle above.  See "The Policeman's Beard is Half Constructed"  > (ISBN 0-446-38051-2).  >  > --. > /~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)? > \ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.rB >  X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.H > / \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign! >   M HTML is for websites. Keep it there. Mime is for people who can't talk. Leavek it to them.a  " And that goes for my mailbox, too.  J PGP signatures belong in the headers, not cluttering up the body of a postG when only one Usenet user in 10,000 can even tell if it is anything but  a fake.l     --  " Alan C    this post ends with    w"                                  q   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:05:21 GMTI6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)0 Subject: [OpenVMS VAX V7.3] OPC$LOGFILE_ENABLE ?1 Message-ID: <R6Usb.39883$W7.23044@news.chello.at>c  J I wanted to check the operator.log of my VAX and did see, that I have noneB for more than 2 years now. Shudder. Ok, hobbyist. No big issue ;-)  D So, I then enabled it by hand, entered the obviously missing logical? OPC$LOGFILE_ENABLE in the SYLOGICALS.COM (and forgot it again).-  H But this week I had a power outage and my VAX rebooted. And now I saw, I$ have again no operator.log. Strange.  K So, I looked for typos and browsed through the startup and found that thereFL is no code for honoring the OPC$LOGFILE_ENABLE logical on a VAX. There seemsD to be no code to enable an operator.log at all. Very strange indeed.  G I then checked the online System Manager Manual (from 2002) and checkedeG if it is applicable (which is not, because it is for OpenVMS VAX V7.3-1nN and I only have V7.3 ;-) and then checked if the OPC$ logicals are Alpha-only.I But no, all seems as expected. Except the no longer created operator.log.a   So, my questions arise: " *) where is the bug ? Am I blind ?I *) my VAX obviously had an operator.log some years ago, did I start it bytG 	hand or was there code for REPLY/LOG in at this time (removed later) ?sK *) iff the problem is in OpenVMS, am I the only one needing an operator.logl? 	or is everybody using the REPLY command in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM ?    TIAf   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER-% Network and OpenVMS system specialist0 E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:19:05 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: [OpenVMS VAX V7.3] OPC$LOGFILE_ENABLE ?0 Message-ID: <JjUsb.40124$W7.5038@news.chello.at>  j In article <R6Usb.39883$W7.23044@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: >[OPERATOR.LOG on VAX] >So, my questions arise:# >*) where is the bug ? Am I blind ?   F I found one. The OPC$ logicals are also (or sometimes only) honored byM the OPCOM.EXE. But documentation states that logfiles are enabled by default, L except for workstations in clusters (which is not the case for my standalone1 VAX) and I did explicitely define the logicals...o   -- y Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERd% Network and OpenVMS system specialist- E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:24:57 -0500Z* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>4 Subject: Re: [OpenVMS VAX V7.3] OPC$LOGFILE_ENABLE ?) Message-ID: <3FB43CE5.402004D9@istop.com>a    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:L > I wanted to check the operator.log of my VAX and did see, that I have noneD > for more than 2 years now. Shudder. Ok, hobbyist. No big issue ;-)  J Is that node a workstation ? Is it in a cluster ? If you answered "yes" toN both question, then you win the jackpot: messages are sent to another node and
 logged there.=   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.631 ************************