1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 19 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 642       Contents:' Re: <CR><LF> Not in FTP Transfered File ' Re: <CR><LF> Not in FTP Transfered File M Re: argentic vs digital pictures technology (was: VMS 2003   bootcampsummary) M Re: argentic vs digital pictures technology (was: VMS 2003   bootcampsummary) C Re: argentic vs digital pictures technology (was: VMS 2003 bootcamp P Re: argentic vs digital pictures technology (was: VMS 2003 bootcampsummary) boot1 Re: bug or feature: SET OUTPUT_RATE forces output 1 Re: bug or feature: SET OUTPUT_RATE forces output  Crunch time for Carly 8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!! , Re: Fonts for printing from a decwindows app) Re: Hobbyist license and layered products  Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results3 Re: Installing Pathworks on a PC: no licence server 3 Re: Installing Pathworks on a PC: no licence server  lat for linux problem  Re: lat for linux problem  Re: lat for linux problem - LPD Print Jobs From an IBM to a DECserver 90M 5 Re: New maynagement software Nimbus also for OpenVMS? 4 Re: OT: Offshoring of IT Jobs Expected to Accelerate4 Re: OT: Offshoring of IT Jobs Expected to Accelerate4 Re: OT: Offshoring of IT Jobs Expected to Accelerate Re: Printer problem  Re: raid 5 OpenVMS VAX hobbyist 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday  Re: The VMS Quilt  Re: The VMS Quilt  Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary  Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary  Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary  Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary  Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary $ Re: VMS73_Driver v4.0 (ALP) Problem?# Re: [ASOVMS V7.3-2] What licenses ? @ [OT] - Downtown New Hamster (was: Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary)* Re: [OT] Mac OS X: system folder not found* Re: [OT] Mac OS X: system folder not found* Re: [OT] Mac OS X: system folder not found  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 07:38:51 -08000 From: csmithson@washoehealth.com (Chip Smithson)0 Subject: Re: <CR><LF> Not in FTP Transfered File= Message-ID: <4f4fc7d2.0311190738.6a99b2f3@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3FBAC1F5.9FAD842E@istop.com>...  > Chip Smithson wrote:E > > Nothing has changed with regards to the FTP file though. Still no + > > carriage returns. Just one long record.  > ) > a DIR/FULL on the file would be needed.  > A > Also, does FTP transfer the file in text or image/binary mode ?    JF, C here is the DIR/FULL and we have tried transfering the file in both , Text and IMage/Binary with similiar results. Thanks,  Chip$                     No version limitB Record format:      Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 2048 bytes 0 Record attributes:  None                        0 RMS attributes:     None                        0 Journaling enabled: None                        = File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None  , TEST.TXT;1            File ID:  (1685,119,0)1 Size:          790/799        Owner:    [IRKAREN] " Created:   18-NOV-2003 09:56:58.65& Revised:   18-NOV-2003 10:04:45.54 (4) Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>  Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified>  File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      OnlineE File attributes:    Allocation: 799, Extend: 50, Global buffer count:  0 9                     No version limit, Contiguous best try E Record format:      Variable length, maximum 2048 bytes, longest 1700  bytes  Record attributes:  None RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 11:36:38 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org0 Subject: Re: <CR><LF> Not in FTP Transfered File3 Message-ID: <bvc45m5796Z0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <4f4fc7d2.0311190738.6a99b2f3@posting.google.com>, csmithson@washoehealth.com (Chip Smithson) writes:. > TEST.TXT;1            File ID:  (1685,119,0)3 > Size:          790/799        Owner:    [IRKAREN] $ > Created:   18-NOV-2003 09:56:58.65( > Revised:   18-NOV-2003 10:04:45.54 (4) > Expires:   <None specified> ! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>  > Effective: <None specified>  > Recording: <None specified>   > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      OnlineG > File attributes:    Allocation: 799, Extend: 50, Global buffer count:  > 0 ; >                     No version limit, Contiguous best try G > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 2048 bytes, longest 1700  > bytes  > Record attributes:  None   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None? > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  > Access Cntrl List:  None  B I just ran a test.  An ASCII mode transfer from Multinet client to? default Solaris ftp server will behave in the way you describe. C And I'm confident that a BINARY mode transfer would behave that way  as well.  > When the VMS side source file has carriage control turned off,: no <CR><LF> pairs are inserted into the FTP data stream at VMS record boundaries.  < Compare the above $ DIR /FULL to one done on an ordinary VMSC text file.  You'll see "Record attributes: Carriage return carriage 	 control".    One easy fix is to:   " $ SET FILE TEST.TXT /ATTR=(RAT:CR)   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:27:04 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>V Subject: Re: argentic vs digital pictures technology (was: VMS 2003   bootcampsummary)4 Message-ID: <3fbb2976$0$27033$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   JF Mezei wrote:    > "Martin P.J. Zinser" wrote:  > I >>As for Digital SLRs. Yupp, I know they do exist, but either you have to H >>earn much more money than I or to be at least a semi-pro to invest the0 >>money needed to buy one of these right now ;-) >  > P > If you have already invested in good quality lenses or zooms for your analogueN > SLR, then buying a digital SLR from the same company can make a lot of sense' > since the lenses can be quite costly.   5 Yeah, but you do not address the print quality issue.   Q An "analogue" color picture on picture paper and a print of a numeric picture on  = the same paper (adapted to the printer) is awfully different.   ' Unless you use a 10'000$ color printer.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:39:49 -0500 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>V Subject: Re: argentic vs digital pictures technology (was: VMS 2003   bootcampsummary): Message-ID: <bpg6co$1p14lh$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>   Didier Morandi wrote:  >...7 > Yeah, but you do not address the print quality issue.  > = > An "analogue" color picture on picture paper and a print of 	 a numeric 7 > picture on the same paper (adapted to the printer) is  awfully  > different. > ) > Unless you use a 10'000$ color printer.   < I like using the digital camera, my wife wants prints. So we; just had 79 prints done at a cost of 27 Canadian cents each : (to avoid confusion over exchange rates, four prints would= cost less than the medium sized coffee I bought this morning) ; at the local Costco. These are real pictures on Kodak paper ; and they look great. I don't know the details but from what ; the people in the store tell me the image is projected onto 9 the paper and developed just like a print from a negative 	 would be.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 14:32:25 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) L Subject: Re: argentic vs digital pictures technology (was: VMS 2003 bootcamp! Message-ID: <z7UQhmCu4rAE@sinead>   * In article <3FBAEC48.DDED6D62@istop.com>, , JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > K >> In English, Single Lens Reflex - uses prisms to provide through-the-lens - >> view-finding prior to opening the shutter.  > I > Actually, it is mirrors. Prior to the shutter opening, the mirror lifts / > allowing light to go straight to the shutter.   L To be exact, you have a moving mirror in front of the curtain shutter and a K pentaprism (or a pentamirror in low cost gear). When you take the shot, the N moving mirror rotates up and the shutter opens. During the move of the mirror,N there is a blackout in the viewfinder. it's the same mechanism in Digital SLR,, which are generally built around a film SLR.  N Some Digital camera have an EVF (Electronic ViewFinder). There is no more needK for a mirror or a pentaprism, but you still viex through the lens. You see  K what the CCD sees. However, the CDD may be able to deliver live preview. I  , own such a beast (a Fuji 6900, a nice gear).  D For more informations on digital photo, take a look at the excellent www.dpreview.com site    Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:29:33 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: argentic vs digital pictures technology (was: VMS 2003 bootcampsummary) boot ) Message-ID: <3FBB0DA7.829D70B3@istop.com>    "Martin P.J. Zinser" wrote: I > As for Digital SLRs. Yupp, I know they do exist, but either you have to H > earn much more money than I or to be at least a semi-pro to invest the0 > money needed to buy one of these right now ;-)  N If you have already invested in good quality lenses or zooms for your analogueL SLR, then buying a digital SLR from the same company can make a lot of sense% since the lenses can be quite costly.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:58:00 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman): Subject: Re: bug or feature: SET OUTPUT_RATE forces output1 Message-ID: <YxLub.9318$Ak6.248@news.cpqcorp.net>   8 I can't say if it's "officially" a bug or a feature, but6 I kind of like it the way it is.  There are times in a7 log file when it is very useful to be able to force the  output to update.    --  (  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:19:23 -0500 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>: Subject: Re: bug or feature: SET OUTPUT_RATE forces output: Message-ID: <bpgc7f$1odsp8$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: ; > Is it a bug or feature that SET OUTPUT_RATE causes output 
 when it is> > executed?  If the new value is LESS than the old value, then this; > would make sense, but not (in my view) if it is the same.   > I have always thought of this as a feature. It was useful when< I had to help a certain programmer find his bugs a few years back.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:50:39 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Crunch time for CarlyQ Message-ID: <OFC7B28F57.7F7EA7AA-ON85256DE3.004BE33D-85256DE3.004B967C@metso.com>     Crunch time for CarlyG HP chief Fiorina has promised that the PC and server businesses will be  profitable this quarter. November 18, 2003: 4:33 PM EST- By Paul R. La Monica, CNN/Money Senior Writer     I NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Hewlett-Packard needs to prove to Wall Street that D there's more to the company than a cash-cow printer business when it4 reports its fiscal fourth-quarter results Wednesday.    H HP CEO Carly Fiorina promised investors in August -- after the company'sG third-quarter sales and earnings miss -- that its personal computer and I enterprise businesses would post operating profits in the fourth quarter.     H HP (HPQ: Research, Estimates), much to investors' chagrin, had posted anJ operating loss in these two key divisions in its fiscal third quarter. The/ stock plunged more than 10 percent on the news.     H Investors were especially disappointed by the third-quarter loss becauseI the PC unit was profitable in the fiscal second quarter and losses in the I enterprise division -- which sells servers, storage and software to large H corporate customers -- had narrowed to $7 million in the second quarter.I Many hoped that profitability for the enterprise business was just around H the corner, but the segment wound up reporting a $70 million loss in the third quarter.    A It might be tough for HP to live up to its profitability promise, J considering that PC market leader Dell pointed out last week in its fiscalJ third-quarter earnings report that price competition in the PC business isE intensifying. Dell also said it was not seeing a full-blown pickup in A corporate tech spending just yet. HP also continues to battle IBM 2 aggressively for the market share lead in servers.    G Still, Robert Cihra, an analyst with Fulcrum Global Partners, said that J increased demand for PCs should offset the impact of lower prices and thatI cost-cutting in the enterprise business could also be the catalyst needed , to finally get that division out of the red.    J But it's a crucial quarter for HP as investors are growing tired of HP notK living up to expectations. "Enterprise needs to be profitable so HP can say E it's making money in all business groups for the first time since the I Compaq merger closed," Cihra said. He does not own the stock, and Fulcrum  does no investment banking.     C Overall, analysts expect HP to report earnings of 35 cents a share, K excluding restructuring charges, up from 24 cents a year ago. HP has done a G solid job of cutting costs since completing its merger with Compaq, but J investors have been waiting for some signs of sustainable top-line growth.E To that end, the consensus sales estimate is $19 billion, up just 5.5 $ percent from $18 billion a year ago.    D By way of comparison, Dell (DELL: Research, Estimates) reported a 16I percent jump in third-quarter sales while IBM (IBM: Research, Estimates), I which reported its latest results in October, posted a 9 percent increase  in sales from a year ago.     K HP has been making some strides in its services division as outsourcing has I become a high-margin business that also offers the stability of recurring J revenue streams from multiyear contracts. Third-quarter operating earningsB in the services business increased 22 percent from a year ago, andD investors will be hoping to see further gains in the fourth quarter.    G Still, the printer business is the tail that wags the dog. Printing and H imaging, which accounted for 30 percent of the company's total sales andE nearly 80 percent of its operating profits in the third quarter, will F probably continue to show strength. The company unveiled more than 150I printing products, most geared towards consumers, in August. And Tuesday, H it announced that it was planning on entering the copier market as well.    C But that's been little consolation for investors. Shares of the Dow G component fell 1.7 percent Tuesday and are still trading slightly lower E than where they were before the company's disappointing third-quarter I report in August. Meanwhile, Dell's stock has gained more than 5 percent, > and shares of IBM are up 8 percent during the same time frame.   Find this article at: 7 http://money.cnn.com/2003/11/18/technology/hp/index.htm    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:00:12 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE 4 Message-ID: <3fbb2329$0$27020$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   jlsue wrote:  L > As long as the change is properly documented in the release notes, I thinkK > making it a warning message to use open on a "logical" already associated ) > with an open file makes loads of sense.  > M > The argument that it may break some code isn't always valid, imho, when the M > current action is uninformative and should cause an error to be more clear.  > I > When DCL command procedures began requiring "$" at the beginning of the I > line, it broke some programs as well.  However it was still seen as the G > correct thing to do because that is the proper way for it to operate.  > F > Making it a default that is incorrect just to maintain compatibilityI > doesn't make sense imho.  Those with less experience in OpenVMS and DCL K > won't know about this historical incorrect action and will constantly get E > bitten by it.  I'd much rather take the lumps needed to correct the @ > behavior to be more consistent with what people should expect.  Q Well, you point is good as it shows that the issue is different from what I have   always thought.   N In a "regular" program, an OPEN on an already opened channel is a programming $ error and should generate a warning.  Q In DCL, what we actually do is not an "OPEN on an already opened channel" but an  I OPEN, and a logical name assignment. BUT, if the logical name is already  6 assigned to an opened file, you have two consequences:   1. the OPEN is not performed, 2. the assignment is not changed (obviously)  M What is, to me (and to you) not correct is that we are not aware of the fact   that the OPEN is not done.   Look:   % DTL02> open/read ch login.com     !ok 2 DTL02> open/read ch login.old     !nothing happensO DTL02> dir login.old              !but file did not exist and OPEN did not trap ! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found  DTL02>  I So, in conclusion, may I suggest to our friend Guy Peleg to consider the   following enhancements:    either DTL02> open/read ch login.com  DTL02> open/read ch login.old D %DCL-E-NOTOPEN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]LOGIN.OLD; as inputE -DCL-E-ASSIGNED, logical name already assigned to another opened file    or DTL02> open/read ch login.com  DTL02> open/read ch login.old B %DCL-W-NOTSUPERSEDED, previous value of CH has not been superseded  * and the HELP/MESS NOTSUPERSEDED could read  J   NOTSUPERSEDED,  previous value of 'logical-name' has not been superseded  8    Facility:     CLI, Command Language Interpreter (DCL)  L    Explanation:  During a DCL OPEN statement, the specified logical name wasK                  not redefined because it was already created by a previous >                  DCL OPEN statement. File has not been opened.  G    User Action:  Change logical name or close file before issuing a new 1                  OPEN statement on the same file.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:03:25 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE 4 Message-ID: <3fbb23ea$0$27024$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:    > $../.. > $ close/nolog in_file  > $ open/read in_file my_file  > $../.. > $ close in_file  > E > This is what experience of *many* thousand of DCL coding taught me.  > <<<  > M > Sorry about my stupid question: will this not produce an error messsage (or - > warning) if the the file is already closed?   & Rudolf, there are no stupid questions.  2 The /nolog disable the warning message on purpose.   Look:    DTL02> close ch C %DCL-W-UNDFIL, file has not been opened by DCL - check logical name  DTL02> close/nolog ch  DTL02>   See?   D.# Chairman of the French VPCNS board.  vpcns@didiermorandi.fr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:31:31 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE - Message-ID: <87ad6sembw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ( jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:  L > As long as the change is properly documented in the release notes, I thinkK > making it a warning message to use open on a "logical" already associated ) > with an open file makes loads of sense.   ; %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of FOO has been superseded   : seems to fit the bill, does it not? I think any `fix' must% be compatable with current behaviour.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:33:54 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE - Message-ID: <8765hgem7x.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:    > JF Mezei wrote:    >> "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:    >> > $ OPEN FOO FILE.TMP >> > $ OPEN FOO OTHER.TMP   A >> > I'd like to see an error message for this saying that FOO is " >> > already pointing to FILE.TMP.  A >> This might break existing procedures though. (unless the error F >> message is a success message which means that no "ON ERROR/WARNING" >> would be triggered.)   D >> Another option would be to add some qualifier for OPEN to request0 >> such a message if the file is already opened.   > How 'bout:   > $ OPEN/NOREOPEN FOO filespec  E > ...where /REOPEN is the default, and the qualifier is negatable? In E > such case (/NOREOPEN), I would expect /ERROR to be activated if FOO  > is already open.  C But you are NOT reopening the file! You are superceding the logical B from the first open, but that is just a coincedence, it could well be any logical.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:01:32 +0100 1 From: Franz-Josef Fornefeld <jo.fornefeld@gmx.de> A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE ( Message-ID: <bpfiid.3i4.1@jo.dyndns.org>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:    > Didier Morandi wrotes: >  >> $ close/nolog in_file > M > Sorry about my stupid question: will this not produce an error messsage (or - > warning) if the the file is already closed?    Try that on the command line.    Try that without "/nolog".   regards    Jo   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:25:37 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE 4 Message-ID: <3fbb615f$0$27046$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Paul Repacholi wrote:   * > jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: >  > L >>As long as the change is properly documented in the release notes, I thinkK >>making it a warning message to use open on a "logical" already associated ) >>with an open file makes loads of sense.  >  > = > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of FOO has been superseded  > < > seems to fit the bill, does it not? I think any `fix' must' > be compatable with current behaviour.  >   A No Paul. As I wrote, it does *not* change the logical name value.    D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:57:34 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE 8 Message-ID: <a61nrv4pljl4hphl18ukuce6vukuh0bvhp@4ax.com>  J On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:31:31 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  ) >jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:  > M >> As long as the change is properly documented in the release notes, I think L >> making it a warning message to use open on a "logical" already associated* >> with an open file makes loads of sense. > < >%DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of FOO has been superseded > ; >seems to fit the bill, does it not? I think any `fix' must & >be compatable with current behaviour.  G While I fully understand the compatibility issues one must consider, it J still seems bad to have something that is really an error (e.g., it is notK predictable what the run-time outcome will be to the programmer) not return 	 an error.   H Or, at the very least, a warning.  Informational just doesn't work imho.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:21:17 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE 0 Message-ID: <3FBB887E.A4AD1465@blueyonder.co.uk>   jlsue wrote: > L > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:31:31 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> > wrote: > + > >jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:  > > O > >> As long as the change is properly documented in the release notes, I think N > >> making it a warning message to use open on a "logical" already associated, > >> with an open file makes loads of sense. > > > > >%DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of FOO has been superseded > > = > >seems to fit the bill, does it not? I think any `fix' must ( > >be compatable with current behaviour. > I > While I fully understand the compatibility issues one must consider, it L > still seems bad to have something that is really an error (e.g., it is notM > predictable what the run-time outcome will be to the programmer) not return  > an error.  > J > Or, at the very least, a warning.  Informational just doesn't work imho.  D A solution I have seen suggested before is to have the old behaviourM as default and turn on the new behviour with a command or logical definition. P Backwards compatibility is preserved for those bravestupid enough to upgrade VMS? without the onboard VMS talent to fix any compatability issues.    --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:15:09 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE 0 Message-ID: <3FBBC13D.5BD7E62D@sture.homeip.net>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > jlsue wrote: > > N > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:31:31 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>
 > > wrote: > > - > > >jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:  > > > Q > > >> As long as the change is properly documented in the release notes, I think P > > >> making it a warning message to use open on a "logical" already associated. > > >> with an open file makes loads of sense. > > > @ > > >%DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of FOO has been superseded > > > ? > > >seems to fit the bill, does it not? I think any `fix' must * > > >be compatable with current behaviour. > > K > > While I fully understand the compatibility issues one must consider, it N > > still seems bad to have something that is really an error (e.g., it is notO > > predictable what the run-time outcome will be to the programmer) not return 
 > > an error.  > > L > > Or, at the very least, a warning.  Informational just doesn't work imho. > F > A solution I have seen suggested before is to have the old behaviourO > as default and turn on the new behviour with a command or logical definition. R > Backwards compatibility is preserved for those bravestupid enough to upgrade VMSA > without the onboard VMS talent to fix any compatability issues.  >   F I agree 100%. It has been the behaviour for so long that to change the8 default could create havoc. See also my reply to Paul R. --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:24:24 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE 0 Message-ID: <3FBBC368.56DCE762@sture.homeip.net>   Paul Repacholi wrote:  > * > jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: > N > > As long as the change is properly documented in the release notes, I thinkM > > making it a warning message to use open on a "logical" already associated + > > with an open file makes loads of sense.  > = > %DCL-I-SUPERSEDE, previous value of FOO has been superseded  > < > seems to fit the bill, does it not? I think any `fix' must' > be compatable with current behaviour.  >   6 It _has_ to be compatible with current behaviour IMHO.   Let's look at HELP OPEN/ERROR   #      If the /ERROR qualifier is not 9      specified, the current ON condition action is taken.   H Oh dear, currently working procedures could suddenly do a silent jump inF the code if the default were changed. There's simply too much code out there...   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:12:40 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>$ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!8 Message-ID: <hitmrv4qeuqvrbfqjh0fvpl32m72804408@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:58:37 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   > 4 >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message3 >news:gebkrvcl9ic1cj8uico1c0jrujbb519272@4ax.com... H >> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:35:50 GMT, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' >> LANGSTOEGER) wrote:   >>L >> And yet, the picture must still be grossly incomplete.  It is in ignoringL >> the incompleteness that one must wonder how really good that analysis is. > ' >You really are full of shit, you know.   H I'm sure we all are.  But, as Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his
 limitations."      >>L >> The change from EV79 to EV7z is nothing, really - the commitment was to aL >> performance boost to provide a platform to our customers that can be used >> for a long while  > G >No, it was not.  The commitment was very specifically to a 130 nm. SOI K >product with a target clock rate of 1.7 GHz and a 3 MB on-chip cache.  The L >resulting performance boost would have been 50% rather than the now-plannedL >15%, the chip would have run cooler than EV7, and the production cost would6 >have been lower (at least after the process matured).  I So what?  The commitment was for a performance boost, and the plan was to H go to a 130nm SOI.  Unfortunately, sometimes things happen and the plansK must change, but honoring the commitments for the customers' business needs H can still be accomplished.  This happens thousands of times every day inI business:  A commitment for someting 'x' can not be specifically honored, J but the business substitutes another thing 'y' which it *can* deliver, andB which should still fit within the business needs of the customers.  E I know of absolutely no - that's ZERO - customers who's business will G suffer due to the switch from EV79's planned architecture, and the EV7z I architecture.  I'm not saying that there aren't any, but it's pretty safe K to say that those will be a very, very small number, if they even do exist.   I And evaluating a course of action which will actually allow HP to deliver K promised increases in a reasonable timeframe to *most* (if not all) of it's J customers, vs. a course that is struggling in a difficult business climateJ with doubtful additional return for HP or it's customers; it may make good) business sense to take the former course.t  A Those kind of decisions - sometimes difficult ones - are what the   executives of HP get paid to do.   >l4 >, and that's what they're getting.  Dwelling on theJ >> specific chip design is only something that technical folks care about. > J >What's being 'dwelled upon' is the pattern of making firm commitments andI >then breaking them (accompanied by lies about the reasons for doing so).s? >That's not a minor technical issue:  it's a major ethical one.s >s  I Hogwash.  HP is still delivering on the commitments for CPU upgrades.  ItEI just takes a different form than they originally planned, and the supportmD commitments for AlphaServers well into the future is still the same.  F Is this all some kind of big anti-Alpha conspiracy?  I guess it reallyJ doesn't matter as long as HP continues to honor the commitments for system5 availability and support that customers signed on to.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:42:20 GMTn9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>!5 Subject: Re: Fonts for printing from a decwindows app 2 Message-ID: <0YNub.9332$4K6.8731@news.cpqcorp.net>  L "Roland Mainz" <roland.mainz@informatik.med.uni-giessen.de> wrote in message7 news:3FBAA90D.BB7CEFDC@informatik.med.uni-giessen.de...g > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > > > > Yep.  And it is about to get worse with the Alpha version getting an > > upgrade, > > > > but not the VAX one. > > >oA > > > Uhm... why ? Forcing user to switch over to Alpha or what ?e > > L > > JF just likes to spout off.  The Alpha X11 bits (Xlib/Xt/transport) wereD > > brought up to X11R6.6 and things like kerberos were added to the
 transport.I > > Why?  New things like JAVA and eBusiness needed some of the features.  >dB > Does the upgrade include the libXp.so (X print extension) shared > library, too ? >    I don't think it is.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:22:18 +0100x" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>2 Subject: Re: Hobbyist license and layered products4 Message-ID: <3fbb2857$0$27031$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   sms@antinode.org wrote:u  H >    If you know how a hobbyist can access the download function without3 > paying a non-hobbyist fee, I could use a pointer.   * http://www1.aclabs.com/splregistration.htm   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Nov 2003 07:51:24 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultsM5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-wHdObzdZejHI@localhost>   E On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:36:13 UTC, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> t wrote:   > Rob Young wrote: > n > > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-QQYHsOorgdRu@localhost>, "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes:   <snip>  @ > > 	That's your small world.  In my small world, the datacenter   <snip> > > B > > 	Oh... and it really isn't spinning.  Sun has been sliding offA > > 	to irrelevance for over 2 years and their revenues and shareM* > > 	price reflect that.  Facts, not spin. > >  > > 				Rob5 >  > M > In your haste to pick on Sun I think you miss what Dave is saying from the tS > perspective of VMS.  You mention AIX and VMS.  What's the mix between those two?  Q >   What's the likelyhood that most new purchases will be AIX?  To a VMS person,  O > whether the loss is to Sun or IBM, it's still a loss.  While Sun may have an sG > issue with performance, at least for those who place a high value on hQ > performance, IBM still retains leading edge performance, and their service has nP > always been good to exceptional, and when they say something they are trusted  > and listened to. > P > So at one site Sun is replacing VMS because of applications.  At another site R > AIX is replacing VMS for whatever their reasons are.  What I don't see is sites V > replacing whatever with VMS.  Hell, I'd be happy with sites just remaining with VMS.    	 Exactly !K  F Here there's more chance of Sun getting a sale now than HP. It may be E peanuts, in my small world,  but ISTR that Sun started by picking up  A DEC's peanuts. And what happens here has (albeit small) knock-on o, effects at a few other sites around Europe.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:32:57 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultsiH Message-ID: <tFHub.113660$HoK.6406@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:  H > JL is indeed an HP employee, AFAIK. Unfortunately, he suffers the sameC > "PollyAnna" syndrome we see from HP'ers all to frequently here in-? > c.o.v.: Rosy outlook with no foundation in tangible evidence.a >rD > I wish one - JUST *ONE* - HP'er would have the balls + backbone toH > explain the bullshit (why one thing is said and another done), instead$ > of just spouting more of the same.   David,   Possible reasons are that :e   a) They simply don't know. b) It's NDA material.  c) 'Not my department'. L d) There is no logical reason behind the 'bullshit' and they'd be embarassed trying to explain it.(& e) It would be a career limiting move.  I Same reasons why there is no response from any HP employee in c.o.v. when<F the question is asked - "Why isn't there VMS advertising and marketingG beyond booths at tradeshows devoted to VMS?" or "Are there still reallyr- 411,000 VMS systems out there in active use?"n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:22:35 GMTm# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results I Message-ID: <%nIub.113946$HoK.79846@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > Chris Casey wrote: >>6 >> "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message5 >> news:apdkrvof0qrqc0v2gn51hvq917fel8ub7h@4ax.com... 0 >>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:00:40 -0500, JF Mezei& >>> <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: >>>B >>>> jlsue wrote: B >>> Now you're bordering on a complete lie.  #1, the promises of aG >>> future bump in performance, with EV79 as the target, is not broken.TG >>> It's just in a different form than originally expected.  It's still 5 >>> delivering on the promise of a performance boost." >>C >> This is absolute garbage. To say that what is being delivered isiD >> simply the same but different is as near the truth as you seem to- >> get i.e. it is the truth, just repackaged.0 >>C >> I know I haven't posted on here for a long time but just who arenF >> you? You sound like you speak for HP so are you here in an officialD >> capacity? You appear to be speak like a relation of a certain SunA >> salesman who posts here frequently but from the other side and,- >> without the courtesy of an official title.  >aH > JL is indeed an HP employee, AFAIK. Unfortunately, he suffers the sameC > "PollyAnna" syndrome we see from HP'ers all to frequently here inl? > c.o.v.: Rosy outlook with no foundation in tangible evidence.  >LD > I wish one - JUST *ONE* - HP'er would have the balls + backbone toH > explain the bullshit (why one thing is said and another done), instead$ > of just spouting more of the same.    L Without advertising & marketing, you can change the names to HP and OpenVMS.  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1208&e=9&u=/ap/20031118/ap_* on_bi_ge/ibm_swedish_job_cuts&sid=95573649$ IBM Lays Off 150 Employees in Sweden Tue Nov 18, 1:30 PM ET  L STOCKHOLM, Sweden - The Swedish unit of IBM Corp. said Tuesday it will closeH an information technology support unit and lay off the 157 workers there/ because of a drop in demand for their services.l  I Company spokesman Andris Zvejnieks said the unit in Oestersund, 343 milesiH northwest of Stockholm, was not believed to be profitable in the future.  F IBM acquired the unit from wireless (news - web sites) equipment maker$ Ericsson (news - web sites) in July.  F The Armonk, N.Y.-based company employs about 320,000 people worldwide, including 4,000 in Sweden.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:16:09 GMTv& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultse8 Message-ID: <nmumrv0nvc1ee6libsk0p9cfooidsjj7nq@4ax.com>  1 On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:26:47 -0000, "Chris Casey" ' <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote:    >r4 >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message3 >news:apdkrvof0qrqc0v2gn51hvq917fel8ub7h@4ax.com... K >> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:00:40 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>e	 >> wrote:  >> >> >jlsue wrote:M >> Now you're bordering on a complete lie.  #1, the promises of a future bump9J >> in performance, with EV79 as the target, is not broken.  It's just in aI >> different form than originally expected.  It's still delivering on theo" >> promise of a performance boost. >DL >This is absolute garbage. To say that what is being delivered is simply theJ >same but different is as near the truth as you seem to get i.e. it is the >truth, just repackaged.  I Hogwash.  This isn't what I've said.  I've only offered that the originaleA planned architecture perhaps wasn't worthwhile when compared to atC reasonable substitute that maintained the commitments that customere' businesses need for their applications.i   >rJ >I know I haven't posted on here for a long time but just who are you? YouI >sound like you speak for HP so are you here in an official capacity? YoutL >appear to be speak like a relation of a certain Sun salesman who posts hereK >frequently but from the other side and without the courtesy of an official  >title.f >   E I have not spoken in ANY official capacity.  In fact, I am a complete  outsider in all of this.  E However, there is more than one way to view the news and I'm tired ofeH hearing all the cynical, anti-CPQ/HPQ malarky that keeps getting posted.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:20:19 GMTt& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultsc8 Message-ID: <euumrv45265vnjc5bv3qcdmoj63fs516j4@4ax.com>  7 On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:42:37 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:)   >> uL >> Being nimble and flexible is how you survive in this world.  Sometimes it4 >> means making decisions that are not very popular. > F >...and to date, we have yet to see a lucid explanation of how "makingC >decisions that are not very popular" with one's customer base does C >anything to promote new business, repeat business or even on-goingiB >business. Is that not the definition of how best to destroy one'sH >customer base? Is that not exactly what the evidence says is happening?  K In this case of EV79 vs EV7z, I would have to answer "NO", from my point ofjE view.  What business manager really cares which of these CPUs gets topD market as long as the server does what they bought it to do, and the support continues as planned?D  I >Jeff, I'm sorry - I fully understand your enthusiasm, even if I can only F >imagine (but not comprehend) from whence it springs. The fact remainsE >that such a position, without evidence to back up claims, is totallyi >indefensible.  K So what you're saying is that the CEO and BOD of your organization actuallyc& care whether it's an EV79 or and EV7z?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:27:07 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC resultsJI Message-ID: <fZLub.114451$HoK.99707@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>A   jlsue wrote:9 > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:42:37 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"a  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  >> jlsue wrote:  >d >>>i? >>> Being nimble and flexible is how you survive in this world.eB >>> Sometimes it means making decisions that are not very popular. >>H >> ...and to date, we have yet to see a lucid explanation of how "makingE >> decisions that are not very popular" with one's customer base doesiE >> anything to promote new business, repeat business or even on-goingyD >> business. Is that not the definition of how best to destroy one's? >> customer base? Is that not exactly what the evidence says is 
 >> happening?P >rD > In this case of EV79 vs EV7z, I would have to answer "NO", from myC > point of view.  What business manager really cares which of theseIG > CPUs gets to market as long as the server does what they bought it tow+ > do, and the support continues as planned?P >RF >> Jeff, I'm sorry - I fully understand your enthusiasm, even if I canE >> only imagine (but not comprehend) from whence it springs. The factiG >> remains that such a position, without evidence to back up claims, isu >> totally indefensible. >eD > So what you're saying is that the CEO and BOD of your organization1 > actually care whether it's an EV79 or and EV7z?f    E I believe that what is being expressed (not meaning to put words into G anyone's mouth) is that if the 'roadmap' and 'commitment' was for a 50%uG performance improvement and what winds up being delivered is only a 15%.F improvement, then yes, the CEO and BOD would have a problem with that,0 irrespective of the name attached to the device.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:17:45 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>< Subject: Re: Installing Pathworks on a PC: no licence server4 Message-ID: <3fbb2747$0$27031$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Chris Moore wrote:  G > If you are using server-based licensing, then the license needs to be.N > registered on the license server via LMF (which may, but does not NEED to beC > the file/print server, but needs at least the PWRK license servernK > installed), then execute $ ADMIN/LICENSE on that box, which is a somewhat L > difficult to navigate Pathworks license management utility, to add the newJ > license into its database.  Generally, new licenses will be added to theL > 'Default' group by default (now, there's a concept), which is what your PCK > is going to look for by (wait for it...) default.  We have found that youeL > should run the license config program on your PC to set up the name of theF > license server that will be queried; seems to get around most searchJ > failures.  Type in the license server name in the appropriate box and itD > will get 'modified' somewhat by the license requestor, but will beJ > recognizable ("nodename" ==> "PWRK$LMnodename" or somesuch as I recall). > L > The config routine and license requestor and a couple of other executablesJ > get dropped into the %systemroot%SYSTEM32 folder on WINNT and W2000, notN > sure about XP.  Don't have my work machine here, but I think they are calledJ > PNLCFG.exe (the configurator) and PNLR32.exe (the license requestor), or > some reasonable facsimile. >  > K > If you are using client-based licensing ............ignore all the above.i  I Thanks Chris, but... there are 5435 files in the PW archive. None of the rQ readme.txt deal with installation so, before I start browsing all the PDF, maybe i6 you could share some light on the following questions:  N 1. I did a standard install, i.e. a VMS Engineering one: default value to all F questions, so I do not know if I did a client or server based install.   2. how can I know this   3. how can I change this  ! 4. which choice is better and whyf  M 5. I do not have an ADMIN verb, so I understand that I have to perform a VMS kO installation but the kit does not contain any .PCSI or .A savesets. Is there a r VMS kit *and* a PC kit?s   Thanks,    D. Pathworks newbie VPCNS badge number 1 vpcns@didiermorandi.fr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:02:50 -0500 & From: "Chris Moore" <just@my.twocents>< Subject: Re: Installing Pathworks on a PC: no licence server; Message-ID: <fRJub.10336$ZF1.1108338@news20.bellglobal.com>r   D,H Short answer is "Yes, there is a VMS install to be done".  To set up the' file/print server, license server, etc.rJ Pathworks (or Advanced Server if serving from Alpha) needs to be installedI (a VMSINSTAL from the software CD-ROMs) and configured before anything isrJ going to work for you on the PC-side.  That's where you'll get the 'ADMIN'L verb, and can then finish this.  Decide whether and how you want the VMS boxJ to participate in a Windows domain, you need to choose the role (PDC, BDC,3 member) after the VMSINSTAL, during the setup phasecG (@sys$update:PWRK$CONFIG)  The VMSINSTAL will ask if you want a licensenF server installed, which gets you client-based, and the overly-detailedJ post-installation PC and VMS stuff I already bored you with.  I don't haveD experience with server-based, so don't really know, but I presume itE involves an LMF-style license for the server rather than the clients.pK Decision was based entirely on $$$ as I recall.  (we had relatively limited 6 number of clients, but half a dozen potential servers)  I Quite a bit of work if all you really want is to share a few files from 1aG VMS system to 1 PC.  Maybe you should have a search for another simplery$ alternative. (Samba? straight FTP? )   Anyway good luck with it.   / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in messagei. news:3fbb2747$0$27031$626a54ce@news.free.fr... > Chris Moore wrote: >h     > J > Thanks Chris, but... there are 5435 files in the PW archive. None of theL > readme.txt deal with installation so, before I start browsing all the PDF, maybe-8 > you could share some light on the following questions: >MK > 1. I did a standard install, i.e. a VMS Engineering one: default value toa allFH > questions, so I do not know if I did a client or server based install. >  > 2. how can I know this >o > 3. how can I change this > # > 4. which choice is better and why  >sJ > 5. I do not have an ADMIN verb, so I understand that I have to perform a VMSdH > installation but the kit does not contain any .PCSI or .A savesets. Is there ah > VMS kit *and* a PC kit?i >i	 > Thanks,t >  > D. > Pathworks newbie > VPCNS badge number 1 > vpcns@didiermorandi.fr >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:45:51 +0000 (UTC)e. From: John Forkosh <john@SeeSigForAddress.com> Subject: lat for linux problem, Message-ID: <bpg37f$md8$1@reader2.panix.com>  H Not sure if this is the right group, but anybody here use Lat for Linux,6           http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/lat.html= I have a small 10base2 lan with some Linux PC's, some genuine @ VMS VAXstations, and a DECserver 90L+.  The wires are okay since@ I can ping/telnet/ftp between the VS's and PC's, and can connect to the VS's from the 90L+.  C I also found out about the MAC address problem with the 90L+, i.e.,w@ it barfs on packets from non-Digital addresses, and have applied
 the linux fixp-           ifconfig hw ether AA:00:04:00:0A:03d> so the PC looks like a Digital address.  And I'm also applying  the extra lat-for-linux commands           latcp -j$           latcp -x 100 -s -a psistarB (where psistar is the name of the PC), though I'm not sure whether either is helpful in any way.s  B And all this kind of works -- I can sometimes  c psistar  from the< 90L+ and log on to the PC.  Works fine when it works at all.  : Problem is it always takes a _long_ time (90L+ prints lots? of ...'s before I ever get a prompt) before connecting, and then9 90L+ frequently just gives up with "service unavailable". ? But if I do manage to connect and then later logout/exit, I can 6 always establish a new PC connection almost instantly.) The VS's always connect almost instantly.w  ; What might be wrong, and what can I do to fix it or tune itT or whatever?  Thanks,. --  > John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:11:35 +0100 ) From: Roland Barmettler <itsme@127.0.0.1>0" Subject: Re: lat for linux problem5 Message-ID: <20031119171135.70d50ce7.itsme@127.0.0.1>d  
 Hello John  < John Forkosh wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:45:51 +0000 (UTC): >lC > Not sure if this is the right group, but anybody here use Lat for 6 > Linux,  http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/lat.html  
 Yes, I do :-)s  E > I also found out about the MAC address problem with the 90L+, i.e.,bB > it barfs on packets from non-Digital addresses, and have applied > the linux fixl/ >           ifconfig hw ether AA:00:04:00:0A:03 @ > so the PC looks like a Digital address.  And I'm also applying" > the extra lat-for-linux commands >           latcp -j& >           latcp -x 100 -s -a psistarD > (where psistar is the name of the PC), though I'm not sure whether > either is helpful in any way.o  F Strange... neither of my DECservers (100,200,300 and 700) are showing & that behaviour with the MAC addresses.  < > Problem is it always takes a _long_ time (90L+ prints lotsA > of ...'s before I ever get a prompt) before connecting, and thea; > 90L+ frequently just gives up with "service unavailable".uA > But if I do manage to connect and then later logout/exit, I cann8 > always establish a new PC connection almost instantly.+ > The VS's always connect almost instantly.t > = > What might be wrong, and what can I do to fix it or tune itW > or whatever?  Thanks,n  E I start latd (version 1.18) only with "-c 80" and let it use defaultseE for the rest. It works fine and I've never had any problems so far...    Greetings, Roland-   -- 3rd Law of Computing:o         Anything that can go wrl  Segmentation fault (core dumped)   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:03:59 +0000 (UTC) . From: John Forkosh <john@SeeSigForAddress.com>" Subject: Re: lat for linux problem, Message-ID: <bpg7pv$o77$1@reader2.panix.com>  * Roland Barmettler <itsme@127.0.0.1> wrote:> : John Forkosh wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:45:51 +0000 (UTC):E : > Not sure if this is the right group, but anybody here use Lat forv8 : > Linux,  http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/lat.html <<snip>>G : > I also found out about the MAC address problem with the 90L+, i.e., D : > it barfs on packets from non-Digital addresses, and have applied : > the linux fix 1 : >           ifconfig hw ether AA:00:04:00:0A:03 B : > so the PC looks like a Digital address.  And I'm also applying$ : > the extra lat-for-linux commands : >           latcp -j( : >           latcp -x 100 -s -a psistarF : > (where psistar is the name of the PC), though I'm not sure whether! : > either is helpful in any way.0  H : Strange... neither of my DECservers (100,200,300 and 700) are showing ( : that behaviour with the MAC addresses.  7 It's apparently a problem affecting "small" DECservers;J: after messing around, trying to figure out what was wrong,; I finally "googled groups" the following message (note thatE= one of the authors - Caulfield - wrote the linux lat code)...o   <<begin quote>>s   FROM: Jozef Hitzingera DATE: 09/10/2002 06:29:24.B SUBJECT: RE: [Linux-decnet-user] LATD: problem with DECServer 90L+  - On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Patrick Caulfield wrote:h >nM > Normally, because I run DECnet, I have all my machines with AA:00:04... MAC 8 > addresses, so I've never had a problem with the DS90L+ >tH > I just changed the MAC address on one of my systems to the MAC addressA > you gave me for your box and...guess what...it doesn't connect.a >?' > # ifconfig hw ether AA:00:04:00:0A:04p  H I had to setup another server to test this (can't do such experiments onF main server in the middle of day), so it took a bit longer. Obviously,H unchanged latd 1.15 package from debian unstable works like a charm with this MAC address:    ifconfig eth0 down( ifconfig eth0 hw ether AA:00:04:00:0A:04 ifcongig eth0 up /etc/init.d/latd restart  > It must've been strange thinking at DEC which brought us this.? Thanks a lot for help, and for writing the code too, of course.s jozefl  
 <<end quote>>h  7 That advice solved my first problem that I couldn't getb9 the 90L+ to connect at all.  Then, after solving that ...0  > : > Problem is it always takes a _long_ time (90L+ prints lotsC : > of ...'s before I ever get a prompt) before connecting, and theN= : > 90L+ frequently just gives up with "service unavailable".wC : > But if I do manage to connect and then later logout/exit, I can : : > always establish a new PC connection almost instantly.- : > The VS's always connect almost instantly.i : > ? : > What might be wrong, and what can I do to fix it or tune itt : > or whatever?  Thanks,o  G : I start latd (version 1.18) only with "-c 80" and let it use defaults G : for the rest. It works fine and I've never had any problems so far...r  : Isn't "-c 80" the default?  Anyway, here's the output from8 my  latcp -d  with all defaults except for the -j and -x mentioned above ...a  ? Node Name:  PSISTAR             LAT Protocol Version:       5.2t@ Node State: On                  LATD Version:               1.18 Node Ident: LATD for Linux   Service Responder : Enabledn Interfaces        : eth0    = Circuit Timer (msec):     80    Keepalive Timer (sec):     20r Retransmit Limit:         20 Multicast Timer (sec):    60   User Groups:     0 Service Groups:  0  . Service Name   Status   Rating  Identification  PSISTAR        Enabled   100      N Port                    Service         Node            Remote Port     Queued    < How does this compare with what you're doing?  Thanks again, -- :> John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 04:37:26 -0800 From: sdavidson@uss.com.6 Subject: LPD Print Jobs From an IBM to a DECserver 90M= Message-ID: <caf27c79.0311190437.150fa658@posting.google.com>   B I am trying to receive a LPD print job from a remote IBM mainframeE (software version unknown) to a DECserver 90M running SW V2.2 for 90MsC BL29-52 ROM 4.1.  The terminal server port is set to RAW and we caneB print to the server port without any problems from an Alpha V7.2-1A using LPD.  The error message that IBM is receiving is: "EDRAINEDsF TCPIP ERR=ERROR TEXT FROM REMOTE HOST".  The IBM support has set theirC side to RAW and have sent test to "PORT_4" the actual port name and   "RAW4" and 2004 with no success.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:38:23 +0100i* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>> Subject: Re: New maynagement software Nimbus also for OpenVMS?/ Message-ID: <3FBBC6AF.7ABF1B0@sture.homeip.net>y   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > l > "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message news:<MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONKEOECFAA.win@fom.fgan.de>...
 > > Hello, > >nS > > today I red, that HP will produce a new management software called Nimbus. This P > > software should function on Windows, Linux und HP-UX. I did not red anythingR > > about OpenVMS. But the mention should be: one managment software, one look and$ > > feel for it on all OS platforms. > >i > > Best regards Rudolf Wingerts > E > A few days ago I posted this subject " OpenVMS and HP Nimbus" and I I > didnt receive a good answer about it ! Aynobody in HP could answer whatm > Nimbues means for OpenVMS ?r >  Read about it at:h  C http://www.hp-interex.org/site/cms/newsarticleview.asp?article=2000    Note the last paragraph :e  E "Nimbus recently entered beta testing at a limited number of customernH sites. While it will take as much as two years to fully implement NimbusH and a complete Adaptive Enterprise environment, SKHPC expects HP to make9 an initial Nimbus announcement in the very near future. "d     -- r
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 05:48:05 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)= Subject: Re: OT: Offshoring of IT Jobs Expected to Acceleratet= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0311190548.79155965@posting.google.com>o  X "pbc" <pbc@informchaos.com> wrote in message news:<bpe2uf$g4l$1@alpha2.radio-msu.net>... > > >S > ><I > > Some good points, Rob. Business and economics in general are about as L > > predictable as winning lottery numbers. What seems like the current tide8 > > today has an odd way of changing direction tomorrow. > > L > > John's point about more IT jobs leaving US is of valid concern, however.I > > Foremost, because it effects me personally;) and of course many otherhG > > COV'ers. Second problem is the impact on the overall economy on all J > > these good paying jobs leaving. There are a lot of us whose income hasK > > been significantly reduced over the past few years, in part, because ofuH > > this offshore flow. One way to fight back of course is to lower yourC > > expectations and charge fees that can compete with the offshoreeH > > companies. I know that's a big drop, but I think a programmer can beG > > competitive with anyone at say ~$20/hr... or I guess we could driveaJ > > taxis and code on our laptops, while we're waiting for our next fare;) > >e > >r > ? > I'm afraid your estimate at ~$20/hr is far away from reality.aL > How do you compete with a programmer who lives under the palm tree, eats aN > couple of bananas a day, has one t-shirt, wears sandals all year long? Looks# > like it's closer to ~$20 a month.e >  > Peter         < With the Free Trade Area in Americas, USA should think about "offshoring"= to Mexico, Brazil, Argentina ! We receive low salaries too !  < I am a System Manager with about 15 years of job experience:@ Different of some graduates I had career -> tp operator/computer	 op/system- manager, etc...   F My annual salary goes about US$ 15.000,00 per year  (including taxes).F The gov takes me 25% of my gross salary ! The company pays more 60% of< my salary to the gov too (social security/insurance,etc...)!) So my salary goes about US$ 8,00 / hour. i  < But I can have a confortable  life in Brazil - not married !& Of course I would like to earn more !      Regard   FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:22:19 GMTi' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>n= Subject: Re: OT: Offshoring of IT Jobs Expected to Acceleratev+ Message-ID: <3FBBA796.8C13FA51@pacbell.net>    Fabio Cardoso wrote: > Z > "pbc" <pbc@informchaos.com> wrote in message news:<bpe2uf$g4l$1@alpha2.radio-msu.net>... > > > >i > > >eK > > > Some good points, Rob. Business and economics in general are about asaN > > > predictable as winning lottery numbers. What seems like the current tide: > > > today has an odd way of changing direction tomorrow. > > > N > > > John's point about more IT jobs leaving US is of valid concern, however.K > > > Foremost, because it effects me personally;) and of course many otheroI > > > COV'ers. Second problem is the impact on the overall economy on allEL > > > these good paying jobs leaving. There are a lot of us whose income hasM > > > been significantly reduced over the past few years, in part, because of J > > > this offshore flow. One way to fight back of course is to lower yourE > > > expectations and charge fees that can compete with the offshore:J > > > companies. I know that's a big drop, but I think a programmer can beI > > > competitive with anyone at say ~$20/hr... or I guess we could driveiL > > > taxis and code on our laptops, while we're waiting for our next fare;) > > >  > > >a > >rA > > I'm afraid your estimate at ~$20/hr is far away from reality.aN > > How do you compete with a programmer who lives under the palm tree, eats aP > > couple of bananas a day, has one t-shirt, wears sandals all year long? Looks% > > like it's closer to ~$20 a month.t > >b	 > > Peterf > > > With the Free Trade Area in Americas, USA should think about > "offshoring"> > to Mexico, Brazil, Argentina ! We receive low salaries too !   :):):)  > > I am a System Manager with about 15 years of job experience:B > Different of some graduates I had career -> tp operator/computer > op/systeme > manager, etc...u > H > My annual salary goes about US$ 15.000,00 per year  (including taxes).H > The gov takes me 25% of my gross salary ! The company pays more 60% of> > my salary to the gov too (social security/insurance,etc...)!* > So my salary goes about US$ 8,00 / hour.  H Just curious. What benefits do you get from the 25% taxes + the 60% your employer pays?    ...n   -- e   Have VMS, Will Travele Wire paladin, San Franciscol   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:58:59 -0500s< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>= Subject: Re: OT: Offshoring of IT Jobs Expected to Accelerate : Message-ID: <bpgb15$1ogj66$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>  4 "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message' news:<3FBAB602.27FAF232@pacbell.net>...y >...< > Actually, that's about what the legitimate Indian software	 firms arev; > advertizing - $15-20 per hour for development work. Thesee are seriouss= > corporations with talented people, offices, insurance, etc.f I wouldu= > never say anyone could compete with an unincorporated, frees lancee* > Indian. That would be more like $3-5/hr. >...  8 Here is the March 2002 Issue of the Society of Technical> Communication Salary Survey. I think a Technical Communication* job is the same as a Documentation Writer.  1 At today's rates 1 Canadian $ = 34 Indian Rupees.e  5 http://www.stc-india.org/indus/archives/March2002.pdfh   -- n Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.l Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXk www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:24:37 GMTs* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> Subject: Re: Printer problem5 Message-ID: <191120031124389636%paul.anderson@hp.com>   9 In article <bpe5jt$330$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, Insomneeg$ <robert.heyes@btinternet.com> wrote:  G > One however has started wanting the Go button to be pressed before it D > will print anything. Example: It says load paper in tray 1, but ifE > you press Go it overrides and takes from the bulk paper casette. IsvF > there a way to stop it from happening and take directly from Tray 3.D > I did add a /separate=(reset=reset)) on a set queue command but itF > didnt work. I am sending it a PCL statement through a device libraryC > / form type and dont really want to mess about with that as otherpD > printers are using the same module and working OK. We can print OK > from Word and Windows etc...  B HP printers can be set to use tray 1 first or as a normal cassetteA tray.  It can also be set to require manual feed which would meanoD pressing the Go button.  I'd review my printer settings to make sureA they are what you want.  Also review the settings for media type.   D It is also possible that your OpenVMS print job is requesting manual feed from tray 1.    Paul   -- n  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineeringe   Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 07:32:25 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)( Subject: Re: raid 5 OpenVMS VAX hobbyist3 Message-ID: <5m9ODYhmroN3@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  q In article <ec25d2bf.0311180431.16681df9@posting.google.com>, matthew.finbow@btinternet.com (Matt Finbow) writes:d > Hi,e > C > Which license is this covered under? I don't see a *RAID* licenseoC > (can't remember exactly what it needs), is this covered under thei > 'OPENVMS-HOBBYIST' license?y  B The software RAID shows up as SW-RAID5 when I do a $ SHOW LICENSE.  H BTW, we gave up on this software when HSJ hardware RAID became availableK many years ago. There were some holes in this software that could result in I data corruption months after an incident if you ran short of resources atT the wrong time...3  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD":& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfnL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:49:10 -0500e* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday2 Message-ID: <sYSdnaUwDrD5jyaiRVn-tA@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ii3JhXdjhYsG@eisner.encompasserve.org...l@ > In article <l_ednfRUupHCMSeiRVn-hg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:z3apknEht+h+@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > >> In article <OYqdneghAMvtqCeiRVn-hA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"s$ > > <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >> >L > >> > With both Sun and IBM legitimizing AMD64, Itanic looks an awfully lot > > lessG > >> > invincible than many would have one believe, and IBM's and Sun's  > > *existing*@ > >> > proprietary platforms continue to look like mature viable alternativesF > >> > rather than 'legacy' hardware.  Why would Sun instead choose to become > > justJ > >> > another me-too Itanic vendor struggling to overcome HP's sweetheart > >> > relationship with Intel?h > >> > > >>2 > >> But Intel has some recent surprises in store. > >sJ > > Still forced to tout future prospects instead of present capabilities, eh > > Rob? > >. > ? > Actually, no.  As we both know , Itanium is doing pretty good  > from a sales standpoint@  I I certainly don't know, or even suspect, that, Rob.  Please provide sales.H figures so we can compare them against the competition.  The only figureF I've seen recently is that sales are up 63% from the first half of theL year - and a 63% increase of an extremely small number is still an extremely
 small number.k  , > - certainly from a performance standpoint.  L AFAICT, Itanic2's performance has been standing still since Madison appearedF and will continue to do so until MadisonII appears some time next yearL (without much of a boost even then:  a 10% increase in clock rate plus a 50%H increase in cache is all I've heard about).  It'll be 2 years before anyJ substantive performance increase occurs (if it does even then:  Intel willJ first have to tame its 90 nm. process to make Montecito consume less powerF per core than Madison does at the same clock rate before Montecito canI significantly out-perform Madison even with one of its cores turned off).b  E By contrast, at 2.2 GHz Opteron is already pulling ahead of Madison's K performance in multiple areas (I just noted SPECweb99_SSL and SPECint), andaI Opteron is scheduled to continue increasing that lead in 130 nm. (hittingu
 2.4 GHz inJ a few months) and then in 90 nm. (at least 2.6 GHz by the end of next yearD and 2.8 GHz in early 2005).  Even when Montecito appears, it will be# hard-pressed to take back the lead.t   >t= > Speaking of futures, it is interesting how you consistentlym@ > downplay IA64 and you have a bigger problem with your futures.  H I have no problem with futures, Rob:  I just use Intel's own statements.   >o > L http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=waKdnQ_9Y69V9bqjXTWcog%40metrocast.net&
 output=gplain, > , > From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms " > Subject: Montecito slips to 2005' > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 21:21:45 -0500T > + > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-980898.htmlg >lK > This article is as good an example of spin as I've ever seen.  Instead of J > questioning what caused Intel to slip Montecito (the Itanic shrink to 90 nm,d > with 12 MB of on-chip cache)  J That having been Intel's description of Montecito up until that time.  AndL Intel made no mention of changing it (save for doubling up the core) when it announced the slip to 2005.u  0  from 2004 to 2005, it paints the new roadmap as4 > a significant march stolen on Intel's competition. >eE > But the facts , if one examines them, tell a very different  story.o	 DeferringrD > the shrink for a year has a major negative impact on yield,  power consumption,J > cache size, and performance for that year.  Adding a new Madison variant (stillE > in 130 nm) with an additional 3 MB of on-chip cache to fill the gape	 increases H > the negative impact on yield and power consumption (especially if it's clockedcI > faster, as claimed), and the 50% added cache may or may not be all that= helpfuldJ > (they claim it will clock faster than Madison I, but that only drives up powerO > consumption even more).   : Every statement in the above paragraph remains true today.   >BL > Bottom line:  Itanic performance won't be improving at the rate previously
 > anticipated7  H Also still true today.  Intel's earlier roadmap had scheduled the 90 nm.K Montecito product (with 12 MB of on-chip cache) for 2004, which should have H allowed a significant increase in clock rate over Madison.  Instead, allL you'll get in 2004 is MadisonII, with a minimal boost in clock rate and only 9 MB of on-chip cache.  >  (and, incidentally, this also implies that there won't be any. > EV7-style on-chip glue until at least 2006).   Still true today.    >e >e > Let's examine those "facts"!  B Actually, I just did.  But I'll humor you by doing so again below.  +   Your "facts" have us believe Montecito is@F > little more than a shrink to 90 nm , 12 MByte cache , with less than" > stellar performance improvement.  J No, what I described was the product that Intel had planned for 2004.  The: details that Intel had made public are a matter of record.  $   And yet, 10 months later we learn: >p> > http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/11/14/HNmontecito_1.html >nK > Itanium's first multicore processor, code named Montecito, will also have E > multithreading when it is released in 2005, said Ajay Malhotra, theh director of I > enterprise marketing and planning for Intel's Enterprise Systems group.. The G > chip will also have 24M bytes of on-chip cache, much more than the 9Mt bytesm2 > available in Intel's current Madison processors. > H > "Not only is Montecito dual-core, it has massive amounts of cache and, quite * > significantly, multithreading," he said. >rC > Multithreading allows a single processor to operate like multiples processors,tC > so with multithreading, a dual-core Montecito would appear to the 	 operatings* > system to have at least four processors. >a > ---i >b@ > So you have a chuckle on my "futures", and yet when we go back@ > and examine your "factual" futures [Ed: a fact can be verified< > and readily acknowledged as true] it is the real chuckler.  H No, Rob:  you just don't understand what you read very well.  None of myL statements which you quoted above said *anything* about what Montecito wouldJ bring in 2005:  they all referred to the changed situation through the end of 2004.  H But on the subject of Montecito as it's being described today, I'm stillH waiting for more details about its 'multi-threading' capabilities before? accepting them as significant (e.g., it's rather clear that the6H 'hyperthreading' supported by P4 is more a novelty than a major feature,F unlike SMT in EV8).  And even the 24 MB cache size figure sounds a bitE suspect:  it'll push the chip area over 500 mm^2 (far larger than anybI previous Intel processor has been) unless Intel has significantly slimmedn down the cell size.o     Yeah, ? > that Itanic moniker is getting thinner and thinner, isn't it?a  - No, Rob:  you'd just like people to think so.o     Buto> > if you phrase it with conviction and sprinkle it with enough0 > technical jargon, the masses nod in agreement.  D It also helps to have a record of knowing what you're talking about.     Well , mostly   B^)s > ( > Here Bill, here are some more futures: > > > http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/11/14/HNmontecito_1.html >m >gG > Intel's follow up to Montecito, the 8-core Tanglewood processor beingr	 developedt> > by a team of former Alpha processor developers, will also be multithreaded, butI > it may take a different approach to the problem, Malhotra said. It willo haveI > seven times the performance of current Madison Itanium 2 processors, antC > improvement that will primarily be driven by how Intel implementsoG > multithreading and how the company manages to link Tanglewood's coresw	 together, 
 > he said.  K Gee, Rob:  I've been saying since the summer of 2001 that 2006 would be theMK earliest that the Alpha team would be getting a new Itanic core out, so I'ds, say that prediction was precisely on target.   >.@ > "(Chip) frequency will play a role, but it will be eclipsed by improvements in ) > multicore and multithreading," he said.: >  > ---s >w> > Seven times the performance of Madison.  7 times the integerA > performance, or 7 times floating point?  Or maybe 7 times tpmC?e >t> > I suppose Opteron is slated to double in performance in that# > timeframe, or maybe triple?  LOL.s  H It's seldom wise to speak from complete ignorance, Rob.  Opteron will beI dual-core itself in 2006 (if not earlier:  I'm not sure that has yet been K clarified), in the same 65 nm. process that Tanglewood should be in, with aaK clock rate around 4 GHz and additional on-chip cache.  That translates to aoK 4x performance improvement right there, leaving aside whatever enhancementsbC the K9 core brings to the table.  So on a per-core basis it'll blowsE Tanglewood (and any left-over Montecitos) completely away (Tanglewood E offering a bit less per-core performance than Madison, from the aboverB description), though Tanglewood may have some advantage in heavilyF multi-threaded throughput depending (as noted) on exactly how major an advance the K9 core is.m   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:14:45 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday- Message-ID: <87ekw4en3u.fsf@prep.synonet.com>u  ( Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> writes:  C > Do you think that Sun's to-that-point-loyal SPARC customers wouldeF >then react favorably to the demise of SPARC and their being forced to	 >migrate?h  E Why do you think Sun would be so mindnumbinly stupid as to dump their-F customers into the same crack that gave them a pile of ex Alpha users?  E Next stpe may be an AMD-Fujitsu cross licencing deal, with Sun in thee cut.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:29:08 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday, Message-ID: <3FBB0DB4.7060401@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:u   > jlsue wrote: > . >>On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:06:25 -0500, JF Mezei$ >><jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: >> >>G >>>The difference being that they will wait for AMD 64 bit 8086 to havebF >>>proven itself before killing Sparc. They will wait for AMD to start@ >>>adding enterprise system features to their 64 bit 8086 beforeD >>>killing off Sparc. And they will wait for the 64 bit 8086 to have? >>>some performance leadership over Sparc before killing Sparc.h >>>f; >>>HP/Compaq killed their own chips before IA64 was viable.a >>> G >>Viable has more than one meaning - two examples: a technical one, andt >>a business one.     ; You're on the right track, but will lose it rather quickly.N    D >>I trust that the hardware engineers can determine whether a CPU isG >>technical viable to provide the power in the systems that the companys >>would want to market.l >>G >>The business managers can estimate how many of systems based on thoseNG >>CPUs they will sell (based on things like current platform sales) andnC >>work with the vendor to determine whether that's enough market touF >>sustain the chip. And then factor in all the other estimated savingsG >>they expect from purchasing the chips as opposed to making their own,e3 >>and decide whether it's a viable business option.c >>: >>All this can be done before the chip makes it to market.    L Keeping with the business perspective, can you tell me the justification of O losing so many Alpha sales due to loss of confidence and trust?  I'd really be  I interested in the reasoning.  The fact is, based upon sales prior to the  M announcement of dropping Alpha, that sales dropped off drastically after the 0N announcement.  The loss in profits from these lost sales would have more than J supported Alpha until IA-64 became a better choice, if it ever would have P achieved that status.  I could even see where an announcement of porting VMS to N IA-64 would have helped Alpha sales, since customers would see that as Compaq  believing in VMS.f    $ > The bottom line with Alpha was/is: > M > Had Digital/Compaq done serious marketing of the operating systems that ran H > on top of Alpha, then there would have been sufficient sales volume to1 > justify further funding & development of Alpha.     O VMS profits at that time were more than enough to support the reported cost of   Alpha development.    N > On a technical basis alone, the fact that the 'guts' of EV79 & EV8 are goingM > to be incorporated in whole or in part into forthcoming generations of IA64eK > variants is sufficient proof that Alpha was more than technically viable.d    % Just not wanted by Compaq management.e    I > The 'failure' of Alpha is strictly a failure in marketing & advertisingsN > caused by a failure of executive decision making. And those same advertisingN > & marketing failures of the Digital/Compaq era continue to be evident in theI > HP regieme, also caused by the same root problem - failure of executiveaI > decision making. However this time around it probably won't be the chip 3 > which is killed....it'll be the operating system.)    T You're real encouraging.  It's my fear also.  Just didn't need my nose rubbed in it.     Dave     -- a4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roads Vanderbilt, PA  15486-   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 08:36:42 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)nB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday3 Message-ID: <5qXmWRWqACW9@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  _ In article <sYSdnaUwDrD5jyaiRVn-tA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:d: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message   > - >   Your "facts" have us believe Montecito istG >> little more than a shrink to 90 nm , 12 MByte cache , with less thani# >> stellar performance improvement.e > L > No, what I described was the product that Intel had planned for 2004.  The< > details that Intel had made public are a matter of record. >   ; 	No - just your view.  In February Intel execs were statingx< 	18 MByte L3 for Montecito.  You are sourcing, I am sourcing: 	and my point is futures change as these vendors play the   	actual specs close to the vest.   >>) >> Here Bill, here are some more futures:b >>? >> http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/11/14/HNmontecito_1.htmlD >> >>H >> Intel's follow up to Montecito, the 8-core Tanglewood processor being > developedc? >> by a team of former Alpha processor developers, will also bet > multithreaded, butJ >> it may take a different approach to the problem, Malhotra said. It will > haveJ >> seven times the performance of current Madison Itanium 2 processors, anD >> improvement that will primarily be driven by how Intel implementsH >> multithreading and how the company manages to link Tanglewood's cores > together,p >> he said.  > M > Gee, Rob:  I've been saying since the summer of 2001 that 2006 would be the M > earliest that the Alpha team would be getting a new Itanic core out, so I'd . > say that prediction was precisely on target. >   @ 	Well, you would be wrong about Montecito then.  It is obviouslyE 	a new core, right?  How else to explain the multi-threading featuresu? 	and that Intel states it will appear as 4 CPUs to the OS?  Buto4 	yet, you would have us believe (your futures) that:  J "This article is as good an example of spin as I've ever seen.  Instead ofL questioning what caused Intel to slip Montecito (the Itanic shrink to 90 nm,0 with 12 MB of on-chip cache) from 2004 to 2005,"  C 	Now obviously your sourcing isn't very good.  But you aren't alone-@ 	as Montecito is more than "a shrink to 90nm with 12 MB on-chip > 	cache."  But Intel certainly wasn't/isn't going to let you in@ 	on the details and like many in the industry play cat and mouse? 	with the competition.  We still remember how great a performer * 	P6 was when it came out, surprising many.  = 	Any predictions on Montecito performance?  SpecInt?  SpecFP?g 	tpmC? 	t >>A >> "(Chip) frequency will play a role, but it will be eclipsed bym > improvements in.* >> multicore and multithreading," he said. >> >> --- >>? >> Seven times the performance of Madison.  7 times the integer:B >> performance, or 7 times floating point?  Or maybe 7 times tpmC? >>? >> I suppose Opteron is slated to double in performance in that $ >> timeframe, or maybe triple?  LOL. > J > It's seldom wise to speak from complete ignorance, Rob.  Opteron will beK > dual-core itself in 2006 (if not earlier:  I'm not sure that has yet beenaM > clarified), in the same 65 nm. process that Tanglewood should be in, with a M > clock rate around 4 GHz and additional on-chip cache.  That translates to aoM > 4x performance improvement right there, leaving aside whatever enhancements E > the K9 core brings to the table.  So on a per-core basis it'll blowxG > Tanglewood (and any left-over Montecitos) completely away (TanglewoodhG > offering a bit less per-core performance than Madison, from the abovewD > description), though Tanglewood may have some advantage in heavilyH > multi-threaded throughput depending (as noted) on exactly how major an > advance the K9 core is.e    A 	Opteron blow Tanglewood away?  We don't have substantial details B 	yet.  We know now that Montecito is considerably more substantial@ 	than it appeared at the beginning of the year.  Here's a guess.B 	I'd guess that the 7 times performance improvement would apply to> 	database/tpmC numbers.  After all, that is a heavily threaded> 	environment.  If tpmC and friends jump a factor of 7, that isA 	a sweet niche for IA64.  Personally, focusing on databases makes 9 	the most sense as that is where most of the money is at.y 	r? 	Recent speculation has Tanglewood with SMT.  If they pull thataA 	off, the game is over in my opinion.  8 cores with SMT?  Unreal.m   				Rob0   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:45:35 GMTa& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <hh0nrv0gh8pbv9p4hu0kh850jvtsi7iq1a@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:29:08 -0500, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   >John Smith wrote: >  >> jlsue wrote:C >> o >  > U >You're real encouraging.  It's my fear also.  Just didn't need my nose rubbed in it.e >r  J I hope you noticed who wrote what in this stream and don't attribute those negative comments to me.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:09:49 GMTe& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday2 Message-ID: <NlOub.9336$6O6.2590@news.cpqcorp.net>  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:/E > Of course not.  OTOH, Sun would have a legitimate excuse for havingSC > taken this action (their actual inability to compete with SPARC -oA > this still being the hypothetical situation which you posited),.  D So you don't think there would be SPARCophiles asserting that if SunC had only put the resources into making/keeping SPARC competitive itsF would have been able to rule the roost?  Their favorite processor, oneB they had stuck with for knuth knows how many years would be gone -@ they are all going to simply accept it as a rational and logical course of events?,  
 rick jones -- oB firebug n, the idiot who tosses a lit cigarette out his car windowF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...a   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 12:24:26 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)gB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday3 Message-ID: <Q+cRO12fRb3Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>+  [ In article <NlOub.9336$6O6.2590@news.cpqcorp.net>, Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> writes:i+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:vF >> Of course not.  OTOH, Sun would have a legitimate excuse for havingD >> taken this action (their actual inability to compete with SPARC -B >> this still being the hypothetical situation which you posited), > F > So you don't think there would be SPARCophiles asserting that if SunE > had only put the resources into making/keeping SPARC competitive ittH > would have been able to rule the roost?  Their favorite processor, oneD > they had stuck with for knuth knows how many years would be gone -B > they are all going to simply accept it as a rational and logical > course of events?u >   ! 	Twisty little passage, isn't it?x  ? 	What is the rational for offering 2-way and 4-way Opterons and @ 	later higher CPU counts?  'Cause SPARC is going away.  If SPARCA 	really was price and performance superior (or to return there inLA 	a year or so), it would make little sense to devote resources to = 	Opteron.  Who would want an Opteron when Solaris on next-gen  	SPARC is so fantastic.   B 	So really, where is the bad management in all this?  SPARC wasn'tF 	properly nourished and fell substantially behind Power in performance* 	and of course we see the results of that.  @ 	For anyone to suggest Sun has a good plan or has been on courseB 	for the last 2 years, would have a tough time substantiating thatE 	claim as Sun has been nothing but beat up.  Revenues down, declining-F 	market share, Johnny Shoemaker - gone.  Ed Zander - gone.  Bill Joy - 	gone.  etc. etc.D   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:50:15 +0100o) From: Michael Unger <unger@despammed.com>e Subject: Re: The VMS Quilt: Message-ID: <bpfl46$1oqviq$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  , On 2003-11-18 21:49, "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:   > Michael Unger <unger@despammed.com> writes in article <bpdn6q$1mv1rg$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de> dated Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:05:56 +0100:s' >>On 2003-11-18 15:50, "VAXman-" wrote: = >>> I put a few on my site.  http://www.tmesis.com/pix/quilt/t >>F >>Does anybody know of a URL for the "OpenVMS shark" (top right on the5 >>quilt)? A high-resolution JPG version is preferred.- > K > GIF is better than JPG for this kind of graphics.  And that's all I have.sD > http://members.cox.net/thundre/vms-shark-large.gif 155x154 pixels.  F That's even a bit smaller than what I'd found on the web some time ago+ -- don't remember where. But thanks anyway.g   Michaele   -- s; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = My e-mail account at DECUS Munich will expire on 31-Dec-2003.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:22 +0100e) From: Michael Unger <unger@despammed.com>e Subject: Re: The VMS Quilt: Message-ID: <bpfl48$1oqviq$2@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  0 On 2003-11-19 05:27, "Martin P.J. Zinser" wrote:  & > This and other stuff may be found at > 1 > http://zinser.no-ip.info/vms/fun/pictures.htmlx   G Nice cartoons! But the VMS logos are low-resolution ones and apparentlyeE the very same as those available from the hobbyist site ("artwork" orm similar). Thanks anyway.   Michaele   -- l; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.o@ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.r= My e-mail account at DECUS Munich will expire on 31-Dec-2003.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:23:30 +0100:" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>& Subject: Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary4 Message-ID: <3fbb1a8f$0$27027$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   John Reagan wrote:   > VAXman- wrote: > H >> The week was fun and full of info.  I would have appreciated that the> >> "Advanced Itanium sessions" be more advanced to my levels.  >  > H > Can you give an example of something that you'd like to see?  Perhaps 5 > Sue can arrange for something at the next bootcamp.n  
 in Europe?   D.* (frustrated for not having met Sue yet :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:34:05 +0100t" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>& Subject: Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary4 Message-ID: <3fbb1d0a$0$27027$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   David J. Dachtera wrote:  C > Please make sure the symposium seminar/session planners see theseoB > comments. They are convinced that newbie sessions are valueless.  M DECUS is dead, long life to VPCNS, the VMS Powered Computers Newbies Society.    D.&   (self-elected VPCNS France Chairman)& To join (free): vpcns@didiermorandi.fr -- h;           Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration NewsiF   www.openvms.org/dmorandi/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf (en USA mirror)A www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf (en Europe)rA www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311fr.pdf (fr Europe)e7               Discover the FutureVAX: www.futurevax.coms  F didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPC      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ Programmation F Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287D     SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.fr   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:11:38 GMT/# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> & Subject: Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summaryI Message-ID: <ulHub.113459$HoK.39920@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > Brad McCusker wrote: >>C >> "Alan Frisbie" <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in message0+ >> news:3FBAC38C.5070103@Flying-Disk.com...i >>G >>>    o  Since the event is called "bootcamp", perhaps you should havea+ >>>       a track dedicated to VMS newbies.  >>D >> This is an interesting point.  I had one or two VMS-newbies in myE >> hands-on Open Source Porting seminar each of the three days it waseG >> offered.  I wonder how many newbies there actually was?   To provide G >> a newbie track that included hands-on might be a big draw, if we ared2 >> sure to mention it in the program descriptions. >>C >> (The really good news is, the "newbies" were actually UNIX/LinuxaB >> people and they were impressed with BASH on VMS.  Had plenty ofF >> suggestions and requests for missing utilities, but, impressed none
 >> the less!)o >>E >> Any of the other attendees have a sense for how many newbies theree >> were? >cC > Please make sure the symposium seminar/session planners see theserB > comments. They are convinced that newbie sessions are valueless.    K Newbie sessions *are* just a money-sucking valueless exercise to HP when HPa9 doesn't go out of its way to sell VMS to *new* customers.   I On the other hand, isn't newbie training a part of the business of Global L Knowledge or whatever the old Digital training division used to be called? IC recall that in the early/mid-90's one could signup with Digital for I unlimited training sessions for *one* person in a year for a single price H tag - about $5,000 USD (not including transortation/lodging, etc..). TheC single price included instructor-led sessions and/or CBT self-pacedrH instruction in any combination/permutation for any topics - programming,+ system management, internals, you name it..a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:39 GMTiF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)& Subject: Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary1 Message-ID: <LKLub.9319$Ak6.877@news.cpqcorp.net>!  Y In article <3fbb1a8f$0$27027$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:bI >> Can you give an example of something that you'd like to see?  Perhaps p6 >> Sue can arrange for something at the next bootcamp. >a >in Europe?   9 There are technical updates and similar events in Europe.e  9 Doing the "Bootcamp" anywhere but Nashua or very close bys; is a serious problem, due to the cost of having to have theo; Engineers travel.  There is both the cost of the travel andb: housing itself, and the cost of having them away from work9 for extended periods of time.  Having the event literallyp5 "next door" means being able to get a lot more of the-9 technical people to the event.  The attendees pretty much81 have to travel no matter where the event is held.e  : I expect there will still be technical updates and similar7 things held around the U.S. and elsewhere in the world,48 but it's getting very difficult to send large numbers of8 engineers away from work for a long period of time, even3 elsewhere in the U.S., due to the costs and relatedi factors.   -- a(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.e   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Nov 2003 10:23:25 -0800. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)& Subject: Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0311191023.572963bc@posting.google.com>p  t "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<ulHub.113459$HoK.39920@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Brad McCusker wrote: > >>E > >> "Alan Frisbie" <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote in messaged- > >> news:3FBAC38C.5070103@Flying-Disk.com...t > >>I > >>>    o  Since the event is called "bootcamp", perhaps you should have<- > >>>       a track dedicated to VMS newbies.  > >>F > >> This is an interesting point.  I had one or two VMS-newbies in myG > >> hands-on Open Source Porting seminar each of the three days it wasyI > >> offered.  I wonder how many newbies there actually was?   To providetI > >> a newbie track that included hands-on might be a big draw, if we aree4 > >> sure to mention it in the program descriptions. > >>E > >> (The really good news is, the "newbies" were actually UNIX/LinuxtD > >> people and they were impressed with BASH on VMS.  Had plenty ofH > >> suggestions and requests for missing utilities, but, impressed none > >> the less!)a > >>G > >> Any of the other attendees have a sense for how many newbies therey
 > >> were? > >nE > > Please make sure the symposium seminar/session planners see thesewD > > comments. They are convinced that newbie sessions are valueless. >  > M > Newbie sessions *are* just a money-sucking valueless exercise to HP when HP ; > doesn't go out of its way to sell VMS to *new* customers.l > K > On the other hand, isn't newbie training a part of the business of GlobaleN > Knowledge or whatever the old Digital training division used to be called? IE > recall that in the early/mid-90's one could signup with Digital forjK > unlimited training sessions for *one* person in a year for a single priceaJ > tag - about $5,000 USD (not including transortation/lodging, etc..). TheE > single price included instructor-led sessions and/or CBT self-pacedhJ > instruction in any combination/permutation for any topics - programming,- > system management, internals, you name it..   D It was my understanding that at some point during the Compaq dynasty= the Global Knowledge d|i|g|i|t|a|l bits were purchased by Lout  Bernstein of MindIQ Corporation.   I highly recommend them, BTW.o ========================! William W. Webb- EMS Operations,   OpenVMS Systems Support % USPS DSSC Annex - 4730 Hargrove Road s( Raleigh, NC 27616-2874 919.325.7500x4186E * * * -      email is first initial last name at email stop usps stopT gov!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:27 GMT4- From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com> - Subject: Re: VMS73_Driver v4.0 (ALP) Problem? & Message-ID: <3FBB7432.3E93EAAF@hp.com>   Rick Dyson wrote:o > J > I just installed this ECO and found that my systems all now report theirE > OpenVMS version to be "OpenVMS X90V-K5L" instead of "OpenVMS V7.3".t > Q > Has anyone else noticed this?  Or NOT have the above result after applying thiseN > very recent ECO?  I have logged a call to CSC, but so far they have not seen+ > or heard of this behavior being reported.n > H > I don't see anything not working (at this time) but the systems I have5 > installed on are not heavily loaded with apps, etc.a > 
 > Regards, > Rick    Apparently fixed in new ECO - V5     -- rE ---------------------------------------------------------------------lE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.h? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------e -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----o Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------s   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Nov 2003 08:11:11 GMT) From: Hans Bachner <Hans@Bachner.priv.at>,, Subject: Re: [ASOVMS V7.3-2] What licenses ?, Message-ID: <Xns94385D686A147hbchp@10.0.0.3>   Hallo Peter,  I I posted this reply already on Sunday evening, but it seems to have been v' ignored by the server I posted it to...m  7 Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:t  H > While playing around with LMF$DISPLAY_OPCOM_MESSAGE, I saw today a lot8 > of OPCOMs. Some are (at least for me) surprising like: > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  16-NOV-2003 09:48:36.62  %%%%%%%%%%%" > Message from user SYSTEM on LUNAJ > %LICENSE-E-NOAUTH, DEC PWLMXXXCA08.00 use is not authorized on this nodeF > -LICENSE-F-NOLICENSE, no license is active for this software product3 > -LICENSE-I-SYSMGR, please see your system managere >  <snip> aH > I'm running ASOMVMS V7.3-A2 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 and have a license& > PAK named PWLMXXXCA07.03 loaded, so:  F Hmmm... how are these licenses configured? Do you use server-based or J client-based licensing? From your observations, I'll assume your licenses D are all in the "server-based" group for the rest of this discussion.  I Do you have PWRK$LR_DISABLE_CLIENT_PING defined to anything other than 0?oJ If not, the license server first tries to find a client-based license for G this client before it assigns a server-based license. And it does this 1 search by...   F > 1) it seems, that ASOVMS does a good job for scanning also for newerF > PAK versions than the current product requires (you might know, thatD > a newer license includes the right to run the older version of theF > product, but it would not work if the product doesn't accept the PAK > then)   I ...scanning not only for a license with the requested version number but  K also for up to four more major and three more minor version numbers as the eG requested license specifies. These ranges are also configurable with a BK logical name (PWRK$LICENSE_VERSION_LIMIT). All the gory details are buried nE in the "Guide to Managing Advanced Server Licenses", particularly in t section 3.3.  /D > 2) it seems, that ASOVMS scans for all license versions regardless2 > whether it already found a valid license or not.  ? No, it doesn't - at least, if my assumption about your license  J configuration is correct. It first searches for all possible client-based 5 licenses before it checks for a server-based license.f   Hope this helps, Hans.l -- p2 ------------ speaking only for myself ------------2 Hans Bachner           E-Mail: Hans.Bachner@hp.com& HP Services / Consulting & Integration2 Hewlett-Packard Ges.m.b.H.          Linz / Austria   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:24:10 GMTa4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)I Subject: [OT] - Downtown New Hamster (was: Re: VMS 2003 bootcamp summary)a/ Message-ID: <upIub.186536$275.624350@attbi_s53>o  [ In article <3FBAED7E.8C6FFC11@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:i !Tom Linden wrote: !> lA !> Martha's Express downtown New Hampshire has outstanding stout.o !e !%RQP-E-RQSTCHK, Request checkH !-ELTRAN-E-SCOPINCONS, scope of statement element is not consistent with !scope of statementr ! > !"downtown" indicates an area of a city / town / village / ... !BE !"New Hampshire" is a state, albeit small, consisting of many cities,v !towns, villages, etc. !l  K I must admit, I got a chuckle from that statement, although Nashua does nottJ look much different from other Boston suburbs (Framingham comes quickly toL mind).  Sothern New Hampshire has a definite, ex-urban feel, but Northern NH= aligns more closely with the "downtown New Hampshire" vision.n    !--  !David J. Dachtera !dba DJE Systems !http://www.djesys.com/  !r) !Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:t  !http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own"bK bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:34:59 +0100T" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>3 Subject: Re: [OT] Mac OS X: system folder not foundt4 Message-ID: <3fbb2b51$0$27017$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Elliott Roper wrote:  1 > Wow Didier, are you in the wrong group or what?a  L Yes, because my French Mac Buddies did not find the answer (fr.comp.sys.mac)O and I need a solution quickly as this Mac is a prod system and I do not have a eO printer anymore :-( and I did not succeed to have the Apache WEB server up and cQ running because I do not understand anything on UNIX commands (you may guess :-) sL so I have to FTP from home the files I need to print to my office. Not that  convenient.   B > "System Folder" is the name given to the Classic run time systemI > directory. It should have a file called 'system' inside, among zillionstG > of others. Check this by trying to start Classic. If it fails, we aret) > on the right track to solving this one.   < Classic works fine. It's the OS X installer which complains.  A > How did you do your upgrade to 10.2.8? 'Archive and Install' oreF > 'Upgrade'. If it were Archive and Install, you might find the systemC > folder in the archive of your old 10.2.6 system. Or you might try D > reinstalling OS 9 from your original disks - don't panic, it won'tG > overwrite the OS X stuff. In fact it won't even let your machine bootr? > into OS 9 unless you installed the OS 9 disk drivers when you E > intialised the disk. However it should let you run Classic and thatuG > might be what the printer and the iPod software you are installing isi > looking for.  / I did nothing. I have automatic update enabled.e  G > 10.2.3 *is* worth the money. If only for Preview for reading your PDFaC > VMS manuals ;-) It is about 100 times faster and has an excellent 	 > search.a  P 10.3 you mean. I'll consider the investment if I do not solve my problem by the  end of this week.e   Many thanks,   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:34:41 +0100 ) From: Roland Barmettler <itsme@127.0.0.1> 3 Subject: Re: [OT] Mac OS X: system folder not foundn5 Message-ID: <20031119103441.34f534a5.itsme@127.0.0.1>i  
 Hello Guys  E > > 10.2.3 *is* worth the money. If only for Preview for reading your ? > > PDF VMS manuals ;-) It is about 100 times faster and has ane > > excellent search.f > B > 10.3 you mean. I'll consider the investment if I do not solve my" > problem by the end of this week.  H Also a noticeable improvement is that the terminal emulator now supports< keymappings, so you can map yourself a "Do" key and more ;-)   Cheers, Roland   -- 3rd Law of Computing:t         Anything that can go wre  Segmentation fault (core dumped)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:29:58 +0100t* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>3 Subject: Re: [OT] Mac OS X: system folder not foundr0 Message-ID: <3FBBC4B6.225A90F3@sture.homeip.net>   Roland Barmettler wrote: >  > Hello Guys > G > > > 10.2.3 *is* worth the money. If only for Preview for reading your A > > > PDF VMS manuals ;-) It is about 100 times faster and has ane > > > excellent search.  > >lD > > 10.3 you mean. I'll consider the investment if I do not solve my$ > > problem by the end of this week. > J > Also a noticeable improvement is that the terminal emulator now supports> > keymappings, so you can map yourself a "Do" key and more ;-) >  > Cheers, Roland >   4 Hi Roland, can you tell me where you got it, please?  2 I haven't managed to locate a copy here in CH yet.   mfgt -- w
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.642 ************************