1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 24 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 652       Contents: Re: Apache logfile record desc?  Re: Apache logfile record desc?  Re: Apache logfile record desc?  Re: Apache logfile record desc?  Re: Backwards File Dump  RE: Backwards File Dump  RE: Backwards File Dump  Re: bin Laden  strikes again!  Re: bin Laden  strikes again!  Re: bin Laden  strikes again!  Re: bin Laden  strikes again!  Re: BUG IN AUTOGEN.COM!!!!!!* Re: Could this be the future itanium core? Disk Quota Management Software Disk Quota Software + FutureVAX available for remote benchmarking ) Re: Hobbyist license and layered products / Re: Hobbyist license and layered products - SLS  Re: IA64 TPC results Re: IA64 TPC results Re: lat for linux problem 5 Re: New maynagement software Nimbus also for OpenVMS? 5 Re: New maynagement software Nimbus also for OpenVMS? 5 Re: New maynagement software Nimbus also for OpenVMS?  Re: ODS2 file header4 Re: OT: Offshoring of IT Jobs Expected to Accelerate, OVMS 7.3-2/TCPIP Version V5.4 - BIND problem Re: password generation  Re: password generation  Re: php on VMS? $ Re: Routable Protocol for Clustering Re: SQLSRV V7.1-5 Problem  Re: SQLSRV V7.1-5 Problem A Straw poll time: anyone clustering Alpha 6.2-1H3 and Alpha 7.3-1? E Re: Straw poll time: anyone clustering Alpha 6.2-1H3 and Alpha 7.3-1? 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 8 Re: SYS$LIBRARY:TRACE_V74.EXE on VMS 7.3-1 causing error8 Re: SYS$LIBRARY:TRACE_V74.EXE on VMS 7.3-1 causing errorP Re: The Alpha Chip Engineering Group Revival (aka: today's HP/Intel  presentatio  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software" Xwindows accelerator key standards  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:54:57 +0100 - From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> ( Subject: Re: Apache logfile record desc?9 Message-ID: <bpsdgk$1ri3mm$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>    I wrote:= > AnaLog can autodetect quite a few standard formats (see the  > documentation),   # It's even better than I remembered:   D   Analog understands all Apache log formats, with the exception thatE   it won't parse Apache's "%...{format}t" construction for customised E   times: if you have this construction, you will have to use ordinary B   LOGFORMAT instead. (This is because "%...{format}t" is sometimes
   localised.)   3 (quoted from http://www.analog.cx/docs/logfmt.html)      cu,    Martin --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:21:52 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>( Subject: Re: Apache logfile record desc?0 Message-ID: <3FC1F7E0.74D44A10@sture.homeip.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > = > In article <3FC16275.59C58ED3@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture # > <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  > F > > My Alpha and VAX came up with the boot prompt (as intended). B andA > > <RETURN> got me up and running again. Absolutely no problems.  > & > I prefer AUTO_ACTION=BOOT or HALT=2.  ? So do I mormally, but at the time I'd just had a system at work E performing endless reboots due to a hardware problem, so I decided to 
 play it safe.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:16:10 -0000 ( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>( Subject: Re: Apache logfile record desc?: Message-ID: <bpspvg$1s0vlg$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>  L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>/ wrote in message news:bprpi8$lcm$1@online.de... = > In article <3FC16275.59C58ED3@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture # > <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  > F > > My Alpha and VAX came up with the boot prompt (as intended). B andA > > <RETURN> got me up and running again. Absolutely no problems.  > & > I prefer AUTO_ACTION=BOOT or HALT=2. > J Actually, AUTO_ACTION=RESTART is better under most possible situations. IfJ the system were to take any pathological halt the console uses AUTO_ACTIOND to determine what to do. Set to BOOT you wipe out any possibility ofG preserving any evidence. RESTART means 'go look for a restart parameter J block, restart if you find a good one, boot if no valid RPB can be found'.L If the system were to suffer a double error halt, or kernel stack not valid,J etc, I would much prefer to have a chance of finding out what happened and why, than no chance at all.      -- John Travell" Independent VMS crashdump analyst. john- at - jomatech - dot - com  +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 21/11/2003    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:56:16 +0100 ) From: Michael Unger <unger@despammed.com> ( Subject: Re: Apache logfile record desc?: Message-ID: <bpsvnh$1rm4rp$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  F On 2003-11-23 21:23, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote:   > [...]  > ? > At work, my PC (which I use not very much compared to the VMS D > workstation next to it) gets upgraded regularly.  Latest, greatestE > stuff.  Once, I crawled under the desk to rearrange the cables.  I  H > disconnected the mouse cable from the PC and, I kid you not, I had to  > reboot because of that.  >  > [...]   F Try using a USB mouse; USB devices can be connected or disconnected atG any time without problems. (Well, at least in theory; but I didn't have 5 any problem with my notebook and a USB mouse so far.)    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = My e-mail account at DECUS Munich will expire on 31-Dec-2003.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 07:29:55 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: Backwards File Dump3 Message-ID: <7$kj1CIJEmiZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3FBE70AC.16F6605F@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:O > The problem with wanting to read 01000000 as 00000001 is that you assume that N > the file you are dumping will be filled with longword aligned longwords, and6 > all text strings will be a multiple of 4 bytes long.  F    I'm perfectly happy with 00000001, 00 000001, 0000 0001, 000000 01.  O > Face it , VMS is little endian, and learn to live with it. This means getting N > used to seeing the least significant byte first and always working with thisN > in mind, and not relying on some dump utility to  mirror everyuthing to give& > the illusion that VMS is big endian.    G    Yep, VMS is little endian.  There's no reason in the world it's dump H    utility shouldn't reflect that fact and dump high address first so weH    can read the dump.  Numerically most significant is left.  "first" isC    not well defined and has lead to many faulty interface documents F    unless stricly serial protocols are in use.  A dump is not a serial
    interface.           ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 07:34:09 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: RE: Backwards File Dump3 Message-ID: <5ufUaNGnARaW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEENIIAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: L > I think you miss the point.  When, for example a an integer is loaded intoM > a register its most significant value is in position 15, 31 0r 63 depending 6 > in the size but when it is in memory it is backward.  E    No, I'm just claiming putting bit 31 on the left is the proper way B    way to diagram little-endian bit order and putting bit 0 on theF    left is the proper way to diagram big-endian bit order.  It doesn'tB    matter whether you're drawing memory or register content.  ThenA    you don't have to think in terms of the register somehow being     "different" from memory.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 08:58:08 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org  Subject: RE: Backwards File Dump3 Message-ID: <HPoZz3VfCm2t@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEENIIAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: L > I think you miss the point.  When, for example a an integer is loaded intoM > a register its most significant value is in position 15, 31 0r 63 depending N > in the size but when it is in memory it is backward.  In my previous postingK > I gave an example, to illustrate that bit strings can ONLY be stored in a  > big N > endian manner and if you hope to have those represent, for example, integersN > then on a little endian machine you will need to swap the order of the bits.   Bob Koehler had it right.   H     Registers do not generally even have an endian-ness.  In the absenceD of instructions to access individual bits or individual bytes withinE a register, there is no sense in which bits going to or coming from a & register can be said to be "reversed".  D     Hint:  In the absence of such instructions, bit numbering withinA registers is a feature of the documentation, not of the hardware. C It is tough to sustain a claim that documentation can reverse bits.   B     Hint:  In the presence of such instructions, as Bob indicated,A most architectures treat in-register values very much the same as ; in-memory values and no reversal can be said to take place.   C     For most architectures and most storage choices, bit strings do C not have a byte-level endian-ness.  You'll generally find the first C bits in the string at the first machine word in memory order.  That # has nothing to do with endian-ness.   E     For most architectures and most storage choices, bit strings have A a very obvious bit endian-ness.  For little-endian architectures, D the first bit will tend to be the low order bit in the first machineB word.  For big-endian architectures, the first bit will tend to beE the high order bit in the first machine word.  This choice means that C the choice of word size within an architecture is irrelevant to the J memory order of bit strings.  8 bytes, 4 words, 2 longwords or 1 quadword.D You still get the same bits in the same place in memory.  (Hence the choice).  G     This does mean that if you have a bit string externally represented D as '01000000...000' (64 bits) with an intended reading order of left? to right and if you place this bit string in memory on a 64 bit @ little-endian machine and if you then interpret that memory cell: as a 64 bit integer, you will get a value that displays as  '0000...10' (64 bits) in base 2.  F     The bit reversal, if there is one, is in the display routines, not in the memory architecture.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 05:17:58 -0800# From: david_r98@hotmail.com (david) & Subject: Re: bin Laden  strikes again!= Message-ID: <522ba99d.0311240517.59645ea4@posting.google.com>    > >  > >mrtravel wrote:P > >> > When your country's president is regarded and named as the MOST DANGEROUSR > >> > MAN IN THE WORLD by 73% of the world's nations . . . then we have a problem, > >> > that demands our immediate attention. > >>  0 > >> Really... Where did you get this statistic? > > M > >This survey was well publicized outside of the USA. USA media chose not to N > >discuss this. I think the actual survey put Bush as more dangerous to world+ > >peace than Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.  > G > You know, I'm not a Bush supporter to put it mildly, and I do tend to H > think he's a major threat, but nobody seems to be able to come up with< > a web cite to this alleged survey, so it doesn't have much > credibility. A pity, really.  $ You will find the survey reported at5 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2994924.stm   C Note that about 60 per cent of those questioned had an unfavourable E view of Bush, and a majority believed that the USA was more dangerous  than Syria.   D What I find bizarre is that a majority of people in Indonesia (amongF other countries) regard the USA as being more dangerous than Al-Qaeda.C  Surely Indonesia suffered enough from the Bali bombing, and no-one A has suggested that it was planned in Washington!  Or am I missing 
 something?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:38:07 GMT % From: Dick Locke <dlocke@spamcop.net> & Subject: Re: bin Laden  strikes again!8 Message-ID: <e894sv0room9lmr6nm01es2cosre96r9pf@4ax.com>  C On 24 Nov 2003 05:17:58 -0800, david_r98@hotmail.com (david) wrote:    >> > >> >mrtravel wrote: Q >> >> > When your country's president is regarded and named as the MOST DANGEROUS S >> >> > MAN IN THE WORLD by 73% of the world's nations . . . then we have a problem - >> >> > that demands our immediate attention.  >> >> 1 >> >> Really... Where did you get this statistic?  >> >N >> >This survey was well publicized outside of the USA. USA media chose not toO >> >discuss this. I think the actual survey put Bush as more dangerous to world , >> >peace than Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. >>  H >> You know, I'm not a Bush supporter to put it mildly, and I do tend toI >> think he's a major threat, but nobody seems to be able to come up with = >> a web cite to this alleged survey, so it doesn't have much  >> credibility. A pity, really.  > % >You will find the survey reported at 6 >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2994924.stm > D >Note that about 60 per cent of those questioned had an unfavourableF >view of Bush, and a majority believed that the USA was more dangerous >than Syria. > E >What I find bizarre is that a majority of people in Indonesia (among G >other countries) regard the USA as being more dangerous than Al-Qaeda. D > Surely Indonesia suffered enough from the Bali bombing, and no-oneB >has suggested that it was planned in Washington!  Or am I missing >something?     C Interesting survey but not one that states that "73% of the world's F nations think George Bush is the MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN THE WORLD." For@ one thing, it only surveyed 11 countries. For another, it wasn't; personalized toward GWB but aimed toward the US as a whole.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:13:38 GMT  From: mrtravel <mrt@mrtxm.com>& Subject: Re: bin Laden  strikes again!= Message-ID: <S6qwb.46088$nq3.1104@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>    david wrote: > & > You will find the survey reported at7 > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2994924.stm  > E > Note that about 60 per cent of those questioned had an unfavourable G > view of Bush, and a majority believed that the USA was more dangerous 
 > than Syria.     G "unfavorable view" is not equivalent to "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN THE  5 WORLD" as the person who mentioned the survey stated.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:29:43 -0000 - From: Peter Harding <harding@herald.ox.ac.uk> & Subject: Re: bin Laden  strikes again!; Message-ID: <MPG.1a2c2b2d59cfde639896a1@zing.ctsu.ox.ac.uk>   G In article <522ba99d.0311240517.59645ea4@posting.google.com>, david_r98  @hotmail.com says...D > Surely Indonesia suffered enough from the Bali bombing, and no-one2 > has suggested that it was planned in Washington!  	 Ssssssh!!    --  , ICQ 40628243 Tel 07092057581 Fax 07092308800   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:45:17 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>% Subject: Re: BUG IN AUTOGEN.COM!!!!!! 8 Message-ID: <aa64svca952391b4sc57ubv3k6vn1sitb9@4ax.com>  I On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:59:48 +0000 (UTC), helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de 1 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:     I >Now, it's rather obvious what this is supposed to do.  In particular, it H >is trying to ignore SYSMANI.  One new thing I DID introduce recently isA >SYS$LOGIN:SYSMANINI.INI in the account from which I was invoking I >AUTOGEN.  I DO NOT HAVE A SYSMANINI LOGICAL DEFINED.  In this case, the  @ >documented behaviour is to look for SYSMANINI.INI in SYS$LOGIN. > I >In SYSMANINI.INI, I have SET ENVIRONMENT/CLUSTER.  This is the cause of  J >the problem: a) SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE doesn't make sense on VAX and b) = >presumably should be executed only on the local node anyway.  > 
 >[snip...]   Ouch! I While I have always, just out of habit, used a subdirectory [.ini] off of G my sys$sylogin and used logicals to point applications there, I can see 1 where this unexpected issue would cause problems.   4 I think making SYSMAN a DCL command with a qualifierI "/[NO]INITIALIZATION_FILE" (so AUTOGEN could use /noinit) would be a good  idea.    --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:30:03 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 3 Subject: Re: Could this be the future itanium core? 0 Message-ID: <bpstkb$r6o$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: 5 > found this on the inquirer ... is this what itanium  > will end up looking like?  > D > "My layman's hope would be to try something: look at the Alpha EV8H > diagram - a beautiful 8-way superscalar CPU made to sustain that rate.G > With Intel's top semicon technology, and the ability to pack zillions E > of transistors with ultrawide internal buses, imagine that a 32-bit G > single instruction slot on the EV-8 diagram is replaced by a 128-bit, H > 3 instruction bundle. Why this? Well, the compilers could take care of> > intra-bundle instruction scheduling, as well as a portion ofB > inter-bundle scheduling. But the final out-of-order inter-bundleF > scheduling would be done at runtime within a (very complex, I guess)G > out-of-order unit in such CPU. So, you'd be out-of-order processing 8 E > bundles per clock instead of 8 32-bit instructions per clockl Then, H > add the EV9 vector unit and its 16 PC1200 Rambus channels, and you got > a winner."   No   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 10:01:28 -0800* From: johnsonlogan@hotmail.com (Johnson L)' Subject: Disk Quota Management Software = Message-ID: <d77b9b01.0311241001.41128fae@posting.google.com>   D Has anyone used SpaceGuard SRM disk quota management software from a! company called Advanced Toolware?   0 http://www.advtoolware.com/t4e/spg/diskquota.htm   http://www.advtoolware.com    E I ran my 30 day eval and it works, but I would like to know if anyone @ else was able to due disk quotas with this disk quota management	 software.    Thanks,    Logan    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 09:50:16 -0800* From: johnsonlogan@hotmail.com (Johnson L) Subject: Disk Quota Software< Message-ID: <d77b9b01.0311240950.6d66037@posting.google.com>  D Has anyone used SpaceGuard SRM disk quota management software from a! company called Advanced Toolware?    http://www.advtoolware.com  0 http://www.advtoolware.com/t4e/spg/diskquota.htm  E I ran my 30 day eval and it works, but I would like to know if anyone @ else was able to due disk quotas with this disk quota management	 software.    Thanks,    Logan    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:04:33 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>4 Subject: FutureVAX available for remote benchmarking4 Message-ID: <3fc2020c$0$28630$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  	 Hi there,   L Since today, a touch&do_not_cry FutureVAX system is freely available on the N Internet to test one of your *really big* applications running on VAX/VMS (or - any DCL procedure using heavy CPU resources).   ; Send me mail to get your user/pwd and the Telnet address at + firstnamelastname a t n e r i m d o t n e t    Cheers,    D. --  N     Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration News  | mirrors   | downloadsJ   www.openvms.org/dmorandi/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf   en USA        n/aI www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf   en Europe    2640 I www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311fr.pdf   fr Europe     528 I www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200310en.pdf   en Europe     377 I www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200310fr.pdf   fr Europe     139   ;                   Discover the FutureVAX: www.futurevax.com ;                   (number of visits, en : 1952 - fr : 2112)   I    didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HP E        Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ Programmation I    Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287 F      SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:09:29 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>2 Subject: Re: Hobbyist license and layered products4 Message-ID: <3fc2113d$0$28627$636a55ce@news.free.fr>   Andreas Davour wrote:   = > ue191@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca (T.L. (Terry) Branscombe) writes:  >  >  >>sms, >>K >>Did you get any response from HP after registering on the page suggested   >>by Didier Morandi? >>L >>I tried filling out the two required fields, but have not heard back from  >>HP now in 4 days.  >  >  > It's the same for me.    Dear SPL E-mail subscriber,   3 The new quarter's Software Products Library for the 3 Operating System you registered for, OpenVMS Alpha, > is now available on the SPL web site:  http://www1.aclabs.com.A See: "Downloads - Step by Step" for specifics on how to download.   5 The login data from the last quarter's "Cover Letter" 7 can be used for access. That login data will not expire 6 until you receive this quarter's "Cover Letter", which- provides an overlap period into next quarter.    Regards, The SPL Team  P ***** Kindly DO NOT REPLY to this email, unless to unsubscribe from this e-mail  list.   N If you have any questions relating to the SPL, refer to the SPL email account:          ODLCDROM@hp.com              Thank you. *****    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 10:15:37 -0800& From: denny_rich@ameritech.net (Denny)8 Subject: Re: Hobbyist license and layered products - SLS= Message-ID: <2a9d9498.0311241015.608f15cb@posting.google.com>   d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<IDELIOKNLCICKNEPNOFAMEGDCKAA.tom@kednos.com>...B > You also need the license for the layered products.  Please noteE > that PL/I is not on the Hobbyist distribution, but you can download   
 [  S N I P  ]   > > Montagar CD? Specifically I'm interested in COBOL and Notes. > 2 > Any help for this newbie is greatly appreciated! > slaX0r  F Is there an Alpha hobbyist license for SLS (Storage Library System)?  Q I've got the CD, but I didn't see a license in the email that came from Montagar.    TIA, Denny    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:27:56 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 0 Message-ID: <bpstgc$r5v$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <bp3cbh$665$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>q >>>In article <vyQsb.8970$YE7.8831@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:  >>>  >>> F >>>>You branch out is so many wrong directions, that responding to youN >>>>eventually becomes futile because you are no longer remotely talking aboutO >>>>the original question (because you have led things down spurrious paths due H >>>>to your total lack of a clue - or perhaps on purpose as part of your >>>>marketing function). >>>> >>>  >>>  >>>	Historically.    >>>  >>>	It is spinning.    >>> J >>>	Whether attempting to debate Sun's decline, Zinc Whiskers or whatever H >>>	feature or factoid, you suddenly are talking about something else.  H >>>	Even if you are so tedious to go back and copy EXACTLY what he said J >>>	and attempt him to respond to the original - doesn't matter.  Off you # >>>	go down some other rabbit hole.  >>>  >> >>7 >>Rob please remember your place in the order of things 4 >>you don't score at all well on any of the criteria$ >>you appear to want to judge me on. >>5 >>You know this, I know this, and its well documented 1 >>so why peddle a fiction that you yourself can't 
 >>support. >> >  > : > 	No Andrew.  In fact, this is so easy to support all youA > 	or anyone else has to do is go to groups.google.com and search 	 > 	for:    > 	   3 Rob as you know perfectly well I started posting to 3 this group because of your attempts to FUD Sun over  eBays reliability issues.   4 This is a matter of record and I doubt that even you would try to dispute this.  4 What is also a matter of record is that eBays issues; were not caused by SPARC ecache problems but by bugs in two  3rd party software products.  9 In fact it was only when this became apparent to you that ' you tried to extend your FUD to ecache.   > So I have to thank you because in this little set of exchanges: you have proved my point far more effectively than I could ever have managed.  9 Remember my first paragraph where I said "you don't score < at all well on any of the criteria that you want to judge me on"   ? Now recall that you have just accused me of being a spinmeister D Now recall that that basis of your evidence for this is a discussion about Sun's ecache problems.? Now recall that I started posting to this group because of your ' eBay FUD (which wasn't ecache related).   > I hope I don't need to point out that you have just exhibitted" an almost classic display of spin.  ? Thanks, as always just when it seems impossible for you to find D another limb to shoot you manage to magic another up as a sacrifice.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:51:14 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 TPC results 0 Message-ID: <bpt9di$242$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Chris Casey wrote:5 > "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 4 > news:apdkrvof0qrqc0v2gn51hvq917fel8ub7h@4ax.com... > J >>On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:00:40 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> >>wrote: >> >> >>>jlsue wrote:  >>L >>Now you're bordering on a complete lie.  #1, the promises of a future bumpI >>in performance, with EV79 as the target, is not broken.  It's just in a H >>different form than originally expected.  It's still delivering on the! >>promise of a performance boost.  >  > M > This is absolute garbage. To say that what is being delivered is simply the K > same but different is as near the truth as you seem to get i.e. it is the  > truth, just repackaged.  > K > I know I haven't posted on here for a long time but just who are you? You J > sound like you speak for HP so are you here in an official capacity? YouM > appear to be speak like a relation of a certain Sun salesman who posts here L > frequently but from the other side and without the courtesy of an official > title. >   : Minor quibble, I am not a sales person and never have been" either officially of unofficially.  9 However my real name is Andrew Harrison and I do work for ( Sun and have never attempted to hide it.  8 I have always been a bit suprised by Jeffs choice of not8 to use an offical HP username/job title etc. Kerry Maine9 who mines a similar vein of marketing BS thinly disguised 8 as technical advice for HP at least seems happy to admit& to working for HP whats Jeffs problem.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 07:44:35 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: lat for linux problem3 Message-ID: <xnuXO178iSAp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <bpltj3$1psc02$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:  > John,  > I > glad that helped. But there is a connection between DECnet and terminal K > servers. The older units, the DS100/200/300 use a derivative of DECnet to M > download their operating system. But they also may be managed thru NCP (the N > CONNECT NODE command) and that's where the DECnet address check was probably	 > needed.   A    Nope.  The terminal servers used MOM/MOP, which is a different 0    protocol from DECnet, and different from LAT.  3    This is common confusion, probably arizing from: B       a) use of the DECnet data base to track the load info (since          changed) J       b) MOM/MOP an LAT are ethernet (therefor network) protocols from DECL       c) third party DECnet providers often include MOM/MOP and LAT in their       	 packages   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:31:37 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> > Subject: Re: New maynagement software Nimbus also for OpenVMS?0 Message-ID: <bpstn9$r6o$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:  > Hello, > Q > today I red, that HP will produce a new management software called Nimbus. This N > software should function on Windows, Linux und HP-UX. I did not red anythingP > about OpenVMS. But the mention should be: one managment software, one look and" > feel for it on all OS platforms. >   < You have to admire a company that names a management product. after a broomstick used by a fictional wizard.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:17:18 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>> Subject: Re: New maynagement software Nimbus also for OpenVMS?8 Message-ID: <2p44sv4e5rs6anfa4uq6tl1tjsenropom9@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:31:37 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >Rudolf Wingert wrote:	 >> Hello,  >>  R >> today I red, that HP will produce a new management software called Nimbus. ThisO >> software should function on Windows, Linux und HP-UX. I did not red anything Q >> about OpenVMS. But the mention should be: one managment software, one look and # >> feel for it on all OS platforms.  >>   > = >You have to admire a company that names a management product / >after a broomstick used by a fictional wizard.  >   B Hey Andrew, try a google search of Nimbus.  You might get a little
 education.   --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:28:04 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> > Subject: Re: New maynagement software Nimbus also for OpenVMS?/ Message-ID: <bpt4hl$b5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>    jlsue wrote:G > On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:31:37 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >>Rudolf Wingert wrote:  >>	 >>>Hello,  >>> R >>>today I red, that HP will produce a new management software called Nimbus. ThisO >>>software should function on Windows, Linux und HP-UX. I did not red anything Q >>>about OpenVMS. But the mention should be: one managment software, one look and # >>>feel for it on all OS platforms.  >>>  >>> >>You have to admire a company that names a management product0 >>after a broomstick used by a fictional wizard. >> >  > D > Hey Andrew, try a google search of Nimbus.  You might get a little > education. >   ! Hey Jeff try reading Harry Potter    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 10:57:54 -0800& From: denny_rich@ameritech.net (Denny) Subject: Re: ODS2 file header = Message-ID: <2a9d9498.0311241057.2b259718@posting.google.com>   n denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich) wrote in message news:<d28306e.0311191237.4bd4791e@posting.google.com>...G > I am writing a C program to manipulate files. I found the following 3 B > modules missing from the C library, and had to extract them from+ > LIB.MLB. Am I looking in the right place?  > * > FH2DEF.H;2    7  19-NOV-2003 15:17:35.29* > FI2DEF.H;2    2  19-NOV-2003 15:15:39.28* > HM2DEF.H;2    6  19-NOV-2003 15:19:17.16 > C > And I did not find offsets defined for the "allocated blocks" andeF > "used blocks" values in the ODS2 file header.  Is this an oversight?( > or am I not looking in the right area? >  > Thanks >  > Dennys   Hi, " First, thanks to those who posted.   What am I doing?    ? In 1986, i got a copy of Mark Oakley's (Battelle Inst.) Macro32nB program that surveys a disk for files larger than 'n', or owned byF '[uic]'.  I have used this to provide a "hog list" function everywhereE I've worked since 1986. Neat program.  He scans the index file bitmap @ for set bits, then retrieves the indicated header block. He then< traverses the back-links to come up with the directory spec.  C The original program uses these three values (in Macro32 format); Is made C-like definitions:   #define fh2$t_fname     0x50 #define fh2$l_alloc     0x18 #define fh2$l_used      0x1c  / Oakley comments that these are "not defined".     C Both he and I also noted that while the FI2, FH2, and HM2 files are F available in LIB.MLB, and can be easily converted to C-format, they doC not seem to be available in the provided C .tlb library.  Not a bigs5 deal....i was just curious if i had missed something.u  C Anyway. The program works as of this weekend (I plan to give Thanks  for that this week).  @ I changed it from directly searching the  backlinks to using theE LIB$FID_TO_FILE (i think) call to just fetch the path. I take the FIDiE short-array out of the header and just make the call. Probably not as F efficient as tracing it myself, but I wanted to get this thing workingF before I die. Also, I think using the LIB$ call makes it proof against! any subtle future changes to ODS.u  D Now, the program uses callable Sort to format the output. In the oldD version, I used a BASIC main program to call Oakley's macro program.E From that, I called a FORTRAN function to format each line, from thateE I called out to DCL to run DCL-Sort to fix up the output, and finallycF printed the whole mess (Hey, I was really into inter-language argument passing in those days, OK?)p  C Hoff Hoffman asked about version:  OpenVMS Alpha. Currently V7.3-1,aA but I'm shooting for something that will run or at most require a- relink on future versions.  > The C compiler is the current version; maybe V6.5 of Compaq C?  
 Pat and Hein:eE yes, I finally figured out the wrong-way short values that need to beeE swapped. I wrote a macro called SWABS  (guess where I grew up!) to do D the job. The DECWindows version of the debugger was very pleasant to work with in this quest.  
 Thanks again.o   Dennym   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 05:52:52 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>= Subject: Re: OT: Offshoring of IT Jobs Expected to Accelerate-( Message-ID: <3FC1E2C4.CB778A1@istop.com>  L Update: BBC news reported this morning that Dell Computer has announced thatD following complaints from its business customers, it has stopped theK outsourcing of enterprise support to India and will repatriate those to itsa9 own premises. Something to do with language difficulties.a  S However, Dell will continue to move some of its consumer support services to India.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:08:48 +0300t: From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelecom{dot}RU>5 Subject: OVMS 7.3-2/TCPIP Version V5.4 - BIND problem,3 Message-ID: <C7A7F45C068FF311D245DD1000A40642@nntp>o  
 Hello All!  
 $ ucx sho vera  4    HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.45    on a AlphaServer 2100 4/275 running OpenVMS V7.3-2o 	,C 	BIND stop servineg request after some time, I see in the log file:e 	t   TCPIP$BIND_RUN.LOG:e ...b Sun 23 11:11:21 ERROR: o? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101:   unexpected error: D Sun 23 11:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 11:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of a memory Sun 23 11:11:27 ERROR: |I BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error: I Sun 23 11:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out p	 of memory  Sun 23 12:11:21 ERROR: /? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101: d unexpected error:aD Sun 23 12:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 12:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of t memory Sun 23 12:11:27 ERROR:  I BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error:oI Sun 23 12:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out r	 of memoryi Sun 23 12:27:29 ERROR: tK BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]SOCKET.C;1:1819: unexpected error::H Sun 23 12:27:29 ERROR: internal_accept: accept() failed: not enough core Sun 23 13:11:21 ERROR: -? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101:   unexpected error:nD Sun 23 13:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 13:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of e memory Sun 23 13:11:27 ERROR:  I BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error:eI Sun 23 13:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out d	 of memory  Sun 23 14:11:21 ERROR:  ? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101: s unexpected error:tD Sun 23 14:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 14:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of e memory Sun 23 14:11:27 ERROR:  I BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error: I Sun 23 14:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out s	 of memoryt Sun 23 15:11:21 ERROR: e? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101: t unexpected error:,D Sun 23 15:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 15:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of e memory Sun 23 15:11:27 ERROR: yI BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error: I Sun 23 15:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out -	 of memory- Sun 23 16:11:21 ERROR: 0? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101: : unexpected error:nD Sun 23 16:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 16:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of I memory Sun 23 16:11:27 ERROR: eI BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error: I Sun 23 16:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out  	 of memoryI Sun 23 17:11:21 ERROR: S? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101: r unexpected error:aD Sun 23 17:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 17:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of   memory Sun 23 17:11:27 ERROR: gI BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error: I Sun 23 17:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out r	 of memorys Sun 23 18:11:21 ERROR: R? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101: . unexpected error:rD Sun 23 18:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 18:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of > memory Sun 23 18:11:27 ERROR: lI BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error:tI Sun 23 18:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out  	 of memory  Sun 23 19:11:21 ERROR: >? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101: l unexpected error: D Sun 23 19:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 19:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of r memory Sun 23 19:11:27 ERROR:  I BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error:hI Sun 23 19:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out e	 of memoryc Sun 23 20:11:21 ERROR: l? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101: o unexpected error:T ...a Sun 23 19:11:27 ERROR: pI BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error:oI Sun 23 19:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out h	 of memoryt Sun 23 20:11:21 ERROR:  ? BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]IFITER_IOCTL.C;1:101:   unexpected error:nD Sun 23 20:11:21 ERROR: making interface scan socket: not enough coreI Sun 23 20:11:27 WARNING: cache cleaner could not create iterator: out of t memory Sun 23 20:11:27 ERROR: yI BUILD8$:[TCPIP_V54_BL15.SRC.BIND9_SERVER]CACHE.C;1:596: unexpected error:fI Sun 23 20:11:27 ERROR: cache cleaner: dns_dbiterator_first() failed: out g	 of memoryeC Sun 23 20:43:09 WARNING: client 127.0.0.1#49280: no more recursive s clients: out of memoryC Sun 23 20:43:15 WARNING: client 127.0.0.1#49283: no more recursive a clients: out of memoryC Sun 23 20:43:27 WARNING: client 127.0.0.1#49284: no more recursive i clients: out of memory   	Any ECOs ?      -- t Cheers, Ruslan.iD +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+C   RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.starlet.spb.ru/radiusvms/ @   TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:42:11 +0000 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>  Subject: Re: password generation4 Message-ID: <bpsjpj$mjm$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:si > In article <bplkqe$9m0$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:  > :ic > :http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/srh_examples/decus_undoc_clinic/sys$forge_word.txtt > : J > :is what I need, but it's a bit cryptic - how are the arguments passed ? > :What are the flags ?i > 0 >   fp_v_dictionary = 0    do a dictionary check1 >   fp_v_exceptions = 1    do an exceptions checkd5 >   fp_v_fileparse  = 2    check for a legal filename  > # > :What are mindata & retdata for ?  > - >   How much you want, and where you want it.H  A I must be missing something here - mindata's an integer by value -< (documented as decibits), retdata's an integer by reference.  D I really don't see how to use these arguments, or, for that matter, ? where filenames come into it (fp_v_fileparse), or what kind of  ! exceptions might be checked for ?p  E I've tried it (passing in 48 in mindata, because that's what a Basic rG example I found did), and getting back plausible looking passwords and m" values around 200-300 in retdata ?  I So I've got something usable, thanks - but I'd like to better understand sF it so I've got a little more confidence in the generated passwords ...   Thanks,u Chrisa   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:35:41 +0100t- From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>t  Subject: Re: password generation9 Message-ID: <bpstuv$1p8q21$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>u   Chris Sharman wrote: > Hoff Hoffman wrote:k6 >> Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: $ >>> What are mindata & retdata for ? >> t. >>   How much you want, and where you want it. > B > I must be missing something here - mindata's an integer by value> > (documented as decibits), retdata's an integer by reference.  @ Probably not "where you want it" (as that describes outstr), but "how much you get".   D I'd wager a guess that it's the amount of "randomicity". Via mindataE you tell the service how much you want, retdata tells something about/@ how much you get. If I go to 1000..2000 for mindata, I often get> %SYSTEM-E-RETRY, so it seems to be the higher, the more random- (not easy while maintaining pronouncability).r  eD If I'm informed right, the algorithm is based on digraphs (i.e. two-C letter combinations). The thingie I suggested is based on trigraphssC (BTW, the URL is http://www.multicians.org/thvv/tvvtools.html#gpw).-1 See also http://www.pdv-systeme.de/scripts/gpw.pla   cu,<   Martin -- @F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.decF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:58:55 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)s Subject: Re: php on VMS?/ Message-ID: <vs4alvlhd5s11e@news.supernews.com>/  % no@spam.com (Didier Morandi) wrote inr) <3fbdcbe1$0$9322$626a54ce@news.free.fr>: i  H >I would like to install OSCommerce on my VMS box. I'm supposed to "run"> >the install.php procedure, but I do not know what php is, and >) >DTL02> sea vmsfaq.txt php( >%SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched >  >Where should I start from ? >Thanks, >d >D./ >   A For general information on PHP, you can visit http://www.php.net/    ws   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:42:32 +0000 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>- Subject: Re: Routable Protocol for Clustering ' Message-ID: <bpsg8l$pju$1@lore.csc.com>e   > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:u > G > We keep getting pressure from our networking group to consolidate our F > multi-site VMS cluster.  They want this consolidation so they do not= > have to worry about network configurations that support theMH > non-routable LAVC protocol.  Are there any plans to make LAVC routable > or tunnel LAVC in IP?m  F Yet another case of the networking folks proving that they just do not have a clue.  F When I say "notworking department" am I being cynical or speaking from experience?-  F And the truth of the matter is, most of the issues around firewalling,H security, VPN and tunnelling are due to insecure operating systemns thatE have been allowed to proliferate and put in the hands of people that,  frankly, should know better.  G Your reply ought to be "VMS is not your problem, stop trying to make itr one."   D I'd take Mark up on his offer, and I'd like to be a fly on the wall.   -- a? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesf nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 00:02:12 -08003 From: paul.j.whapshott@lineone.net (Paul Whapshott)>" Subject: Re: SQLSRV V7.1-5 Problem= Message-ID: <51f54c31.0311240002.614c2de5@posting.google.com>   4 The reuse is set to transaction. See settings below;   Service SQS_SERVICE_AP%     State:                    RUNNINGe*     Owner:                    SQLSRV$DEFLT-     Owner Password:           <not specified>n*     Protocol:                 SQL/Services-     Default Connect Username: <not specified>o-     Default Connect Password: <not specified>-!     SQL version:              7.1,!     Autostart:                off -     Process init:             <not specified>r2     Attach:                   ATTACH 'FILENAME DB'-     Schema:                   <not specified>-)     Reuse:                    TRANSACTION .     Database Authorization:   CONNECT USERNAME-     dbsrc file:               <not specified>e-     SQL init file:            <not specified> (     Appl Transaction Usage:   CONCURRENT$     Idle User Timeout:        <none>(     Idle Exec Timeout:        60 seconds      Min Executors:            35      Max Executors:            35      Running Executors:        35     Clients Per Executor:     5b     Active Clients:           0o  D Under the previous version of SQL this was the same with only errorsB going to the logfile. Now it appears as is all activity is logged.  E The previous version had to be removed before installing this versionc@ by running the procedure sys$manager:SQLSRV$DEINSTALL_DELETE.COM     Paul   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 00:02:12 -08003 From: paul.j.whapshott@lineone.net (Paul Whapshott) " Subject: Re: SQLSRV V7.1-5 Problem= Message-ID: <51f54c31.0311240002.5e2c4db3@posting.google.com>2  4 The reuse is set to transaction. See settings below;   Service SQS_SERVICE_AP%     State:                    RUNNINGo*     Owner:                    SQLSRV$DEFLT-     Owner Password:           <not specified> *     Protocol:                 SQL/Services-     Default Connect Username: <not specified>e-     Default Connect Password: <not specified>i!     SQL version:              7.1e!     Autostart:                offr-     Process init:             <not specified>k2     Attach:                   ATTACH 'FILENAME DB'-     Schema:                   <not specified>a)     Reuse:                    TRANSACTION .     Database Authorization:   CONNECT USERNAME-     dbsrc file:               <not specified>c-     SQL init file:            <not specified>a(     Appl Transaction Usage:   CONCURRENT$     Idle User Timeout:        <none>(     Idle Exec Timeout:        60 seconds      Min Executors:            35      Max Executors:            35      Running Executors:        35     Clients Per Executor:     5u     Active Clients:           0n  D Under the previous version of SQL this was the same with only errorsB going to the logfile. Now it appears as is all activity is logged.  E The previous version had to be removed before installing this versionp@ by running the procedure sys$manager:SQLSRV$DEINSTALL_DELETE.COM     Paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:10:15 +0000S* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>J Subject: Straw poll time: anyone clustering Alpha 6.2-1H3 and Alpha 7.3-1?' Message-ID: <bpt3f2$2ua$1@lore.csc.com>e   Experiences good or bad?  C I know the docco's don't recommend it. We'll take latest patches as  read.d   TIA  --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Scienceso nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:54:02 +0100d* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>N Subject: Re: Straw poll time: anyone clustering Alpha 6.2-1H3 and Alpha 7.3-1?0 Message-ID: <3FC2299A.45549909@sture.homeip.net>   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Experiences good or bad? > E > I know the docco's don't recommend it. We'll take latest patches asy > read.e >   C Sorry, not with that combination. But it's perhaps worth relating aoF problem I had about 6 years ago with a combination which fell into theE "probably works, but don't come to us if you have problems" category.-  D We had a directory corruption problem (files out of order) and DEC'sE response was "please upgrade". Fortunately ANALYZE/DISK got us out ofsA that problem, but I have been wary of such a scenario ever since.    -- g
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:56 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>hB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday0 Message-ID: <bpsmop$ok5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > Just waiting for the shoe to drop.  I expect that once they have a 64-bitmK > Solaris, they will announce plans to build enterprise scale AMD64 servers 9 > and the end of Sparc (they will give Sparc to Fujitsu).t > #r   Wonderfull spin.  ) HP are the company who should be worried.k  B Sun and IBM now support Opteron all AMD need to do is get a designB win at Dell and the whole IA64 experiment is under serious threat.  E Lets hope that Dell stand firm and stay with IA32 at the low end. :-)3  C I for one would be very uncomfortable to be placed in the situationRD where the sucess/failure of the business unit I worked for was beingB dictated by the decisions made by execs working for a company that5 the unit I work for don't even compete with directly.   N > Actually it's what I said I would do if I were in their position.  Is it tooN > little too late (I expect that a hardware transition like that will take 2-3? > years)?  Time will tell, but it does make things interesting.L >   ? It would if Sun was doing Opteron across the range but we arn't > we are just doing 2-4 way boxes and its hardly a major change.  ? Solaris x86 currently runs on Opteron as do all the Solaris x86- apps.-  > If you take Oracle Solaris x86 currently has 20x the supported? Oracle applications tools and components when compared with thee> 4 or is it 5 Oracle products supported on HP-UX/Linux on IA64.  @ In Oracles case most of these products with the exception of theC DBMS don't really benefit from 64bit support so the only desirable <7 porting excercise would be a 64bit version of the DBMS.a  = Because of this we won't have the whole ISV capture excerciset4 that HP is currently doing rather poorly at on IA64.   Regardsd Andrew Harrisonb   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:27:19 +0000uO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>mB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday0 Message-ID: <bpt80n$1iq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:J > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 02:34:38 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >  >  > N >>Nope.  It's because while SPARC performance satisfies a goodly percentage ofM >>Sun's customers (and SPARC64 will satisfy even more), it does not offer the A >>leading-edge performance that *some* Sun customers may require.  >  > G > I'm curious, why was it OKAY for Sun to allow SPARC to drop behind inmJ > performance because it "satisfies a goodly percentage of" customers, but: > somehow it's not valid for HP to do the same with Alpha? >   6 Well assuming the first part of your statement is true$ Namely that SPARC has dropped behind; You still need to show that Sun has allowed that to happen.o  > Since you can't show that, the whole basis if your argument isB somewhat flawed, but then you must be bright enough to know that !    G > Alpha may have been in a leadership position, but that really doesn'trG > negate that the same business principles can apply to the decision to # > forego more long-term investment.  >   ? Again you need to show that this statement is correct. In order F to do so you need to very carefully limit the scope of your leadershipH position statement to "single CPU performance as measured by SPECint andG SPECfp" because again as you know there is no data to support any otherv claims.b   > D > One problem, though, is that to date there are no mid- to high-endM > AMD-based systems.  There is no track record for these systems to determineaK > how they perform in the real world.  There's nothing to really compare toa; > except workstation and hypothetical server-class systems.  >   8 So explain how AMD differs from Itanium in this respect.  J > And, to date, it's not clear how well Opteron will be able to perform inJ > the multi-processor space that competes with other server class systems.J > I'm not saying that it will fail, but there's no way to discuss relativeJ > capabilities because they don't much exist today.  They may have to makeI > trade-offs in the system design that inhibit it's competing well in the>: > over-4-processor market.  We just really don't know yet. >   8 So explain how AMD differs from Itanium in this respect.   Regardsi Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:44:48 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>iB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday0 Message-ID: <bpt91g$1u3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:a > In article <OYqdneghAMvtqCeiRVn-hA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:h > L >>With both Sun and IBM legitimizing AMD64, Itanic looks an awfully lot lessM >>invincible than many would have one believe, and IBM's and Sun's *existing* H >>proprietary platforms continue to look like mature viable alternativesM >>rather than 'legacy' hardware.  Why would Sun instead choose to become justfE >>another me-too Itanic vendor struggling to overcome HP's sweethearti >>relationship with Intel? >> >  > B > 	But Intel has some recent surprises in store.  Industry chatter? > 	has been about high-k over the years.  Intel surprised folksuA > 	and announced their high-k research is complete after 5 years c > 	of development. > F > http://www.intel.com/labs/features/si11031.htm?iid=labs+si11031.htm& > H > The entire semiconductor industry is struggling with the heat of chipsO > increasing exponentially as the number of transistors increase exponentially.3Q > Moving to new high-k materials that control leakage is one step of many towards,O > making transistors run cooler. Because high-k gate dielectrics can be severalaJ > times thicker, they reduce gate leakage by over 100 times, and thereforeQ > devices run cooler. At the same time, Intel has engineered and is demonstratingmL > metal gate electrodes - which sit on top of the gate dielectric - that are& > compatible with high-k dielectrics.  >    Depends on where you sit.-  < If you are Intel with a processor that currently pushes 130+7 watts with plans that will result in this getting worse-9 rather than better in the medium term then you are really<4 struggling. With 2007 looking increasingly far away.  : If you are Sun/IBM or AMD with under half the power budget> and at least in the case of Sun plans that will result in this@ improving not getting worse, then life is less of a struggle and? you don't necessarely need to hope that an entirely new processo@ which may arrive sometime in the latter half of this decade will	 save you.t   regards  Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:19:42 +0000nO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>oB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday0 Message-ID: <bpt7ie$1e6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote: + > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  > K >>2.  SPARC would not have a well-defined future product well on the way to"I >>completion that offered even greater performance leadership; Alpha did.  >  > = > So long before SPARC was terminated, Sun would have stoppede+ > development of future SPARC CPUs/systems?e >    Well thats OK then isn't it.    Niagara is still being developed US IV is still being developed US V is still being developedv  Gemini is still being developed.  / Looks like SPARC still has plenty of time left.a   Regards  Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:33:34 +0000nO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday0 Message-ID: <bpt8ce$1oj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:v > Bill Todd wrote: > H >>But, unlike Compaq, it would not be a move made because they wanted toL >>(despite having a superior existing proprietary platform) but because they8 >>had to (because SPARC just couldn't cut the mustard) - >  >  > M > Not quite. If Sun moves to AMD, it won't be to help a struggling AMD at itsuL > own expense, it would be because AMD's products would allow Sun to be evenP > more competitive, especially in light of HP being "stuck" on that bloated IA64* > monster. It will be a business decision. >   G Anything that accelerates the arrival of Prescott with 64bit support ori? Yamhill if they are actually different projects is a good thinglB regardless of impact it has in the long run to AMD though no doubt they will benefit.  F The mercy killing of HP's Enterprise Systems business is motive enoughA which is what will happen if x86-64 support surfaces in any Intelf product.  G Sun and IBM will then have a productive time picking over the bones and  HP will have a new board.-   Regards- Andrew Harrison2   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:24:33 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>5B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected MondayI Message-ID: <l9rwb.19326$X2W1.14096@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    Dave Weatherall wrote:H > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:45:35 UTC, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >> >> Dave Weatherall wrote:tF >>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:45:35 UTC, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>
 >>> wrote: >>>v5 >>>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:29:08 -0500, David Frobleo! >>>> <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:k >>>> >>>>> John Smith wrote:m >>>>>g >>>>>> jlsue wrote:a >>>>>> >>>>>e >>>>>aG >>>>> You're real encouraging.  It's my fear also.  Just didn't need my, >>>>> nose rubbed in it. >>>>>a >>>>? >>>> I hope you noticed who wrote what in this stream and don'te- >>>> attribute those negative comments to me.h >>>rE >>> It's the fact that it came from "John" that makes it depressing!!p >> >>B >> I don't know whether to thank you for that remark or apologize. >n) > There's certainly no need to apologise.  >wG >> I know that I continue to dwell on advertising/marketing issues, andSG >> from where I sit I just don't see the takeup of VMS systems with newaD >> customers occuring  in numbers sufficient to even just offset theF >> decline in the number of VMS systems being used by customers. So toG >> use a swimming analog, one can be swimming ahead, treading water, or G >> drowning with respect to system sales. Without hard accurate numbers:< >> at my disposal I can only comment anecdotally based on myD >> observations within the VMS customer base I know about, and I see >> only drowning.  >2F > That's what frightening. We know you like/appreciate VMS and (would)E > like to offer/use it in your projects. When one gets the impressioneH > that you don't trust the situation enough to take your customers alongA > that road, well depression starts to set in. Especially since IsA > suspect that your area of work is not dissimilar to Rob's 'realeF > world'. i.e. the commercial/finance one that VMS needs for its 'big'	 > income.S    " It's a lot of things actually.....  @ I can design/build apps for any platform. If I propose a turnkeyI implementation based on VMS I have a real selling job on my hands. Why is  that, you may ask?  ; The answer consists of many parts (in no particular order):o  J 1) Lack of awareness of VMS at the BOD level of the customers I deal with.B Q. Aren't BOD types not supposed to care about this sort of thing?L A, Some do, some don't. Those organizations where technology is perceived toJ be 'the business' take a more activist role in understanding the merits of one o/s vs. another.  ( Q. Isn't that a good thing for VMS then?F A. Yes, if there was any general awareness of VMS. Last time I saw anyF advertising for VMS was 1999. Last time I heard of a Compaq/HP accountF manager go to a non-HP customer and pitch VMS where VMS wasn't alreadyJ installed and there wasn't a turnkey VMS app being presented was years and
 years ago.      $ 2) IT resistance to bringing VMS in.$ Q. Why is IT resistant to using VMS?) A. In my experience the issues range froms     - it's deadGH     - we already use unix and microsoft and we don't need something else      - we have no skills with VMS"     - there are no VMS people left)     - none of the people we hire know VMS-F     - we don't want to be held hostage to high-priced consultants (see previous points)     - unix is modern, VMS isn't-?     - unix is just fine; we don't need to pay a premium for VMSr.     - our Microsoft-provided kneepads fit fine       3) Internal Battles/7 Q. Well what if you went to the users and by-passed IT?pL A. With my apps that's what we often try to do. In fact that's our preferredK approach. But many times it's IT that comes back and says if it isn't unix,eL it isn't going to be bought. Then a pitched battle ensues with threats by ITI to jack-up the internal chargebacks so high if VMS is brought in that the $ end users cave-in and say no to VMS.  K Q. But isn't what you are describing exactly what happened in the 80's wheneL Mac's were broup in guerrilla-style under the cover of darkness and the same& thing when Sun was first starting out?L A. Yes - but that's when things were less 'corporate' and there seemed to beI more tolerance of 'experimentation'. Departmental and workgroup computingn- was newer then and things were less up-tight.0       4) Security & Reliability0C Q. So why don't you sell based on VMS securability and reliability?5H A. We do. But the customer would rather hear that from HP - we're just aI small organization and while we have traction with the user-base, we have J less traction with the auditors, IT security, and other interested partiesK than HP would have. But HP doesn't do anything to 'prime the pump' and makeaJ potential VMS customers aware of VMS security & reliability. Maybe they doK if you specifically ask them for a $1B account, but they won't give you the H time of day for a company that has $20mm annual sales which might be theC purchaser of an ES-class system or two with a bunch of raid arrays.h       5) No education 2 Q. Well why don't you just educate them about VMS?L A. We try but it costs money and time. My end of the bargain is to sell appsK that run on that hw/os and pitch the app (though we do a fair bit of the osIJ education too). And we encounter resistance to learning by the customers -H they're too busy trying to do more with the less that they have to learnD about ways to do it better (a lot of times doing more isn't doing it better).  I Advertising is the great equalizer in that case - the $1B company CFO and F the $20MM company CEO both read the same pages in the WSJ, and Forbes,F etc.... and that would go a long way in broadening the market for VMS,G whether for turnkey apps or internal development at your garden varietyh $100MM-$5B enterprises.l  L Here's where I get to ask a question..... isn't educating the customer aboutG the os what the hw/os vendor is supposed to do? HP isn't doing that, ats least not for new customers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:13:59 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>kB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday0 Message-ID: <bptao7$2k3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:a > In article <sYSdnaUwDrD5jyaiRVn-tA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > : >>"Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ >>news:ii3JhXdjhYsG@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >  >  > @ >>>Actually, no.  As we both know , Itanium is doing pretty good >>>from a sales standpoint >>K >>I certainly don't know, or even suspect, that, Rob.  Please provide sales,J >>figures so we can compare them against the competition.  The only figureH >>I've seen recently is that sales are up 63% from the first half of theN >>year - and a 63% increase of an extremely small number is still an extremely >>small number.  >> >  > > > 	Little teasers about.  As we can see from realworldtech.com > 	Paul brings this forth: > C > http://www.fortune.com/fortune/fastforward/0,15704,545432,00.htmlo > 4 > "At Intel, spokesman Howard High says that Itanium4 > is actually doing better than most people realize.2 > The company will announce at its analyst meeting1 > later this week that analysts' estimates of itsI. > sales "are off by an order of magnitude," he2 > says. "This year and next are very big years for6 > Itanium," says High, "because people will see it has- > strong interest and that real companies are-! > implementing it for real work."  >  > H > 	Again, as we both know Itanium is doing good from a sales standpoint.3 > 	The Itanic moniker is getting funnier every day.g >   ; How on earth did you work this little miracle of spin out ?s   Regardsa Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 07:39:58 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)aA Subject: Re: SYS$LIBRARY:TRACE_V74.EXE on VMS 7.3-1 causing errorh3 Message-ID: <LLU81hHpRM12@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  a In article <8Vsvb.21958$86.419993@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes: L > Thanks for your repsonse.  After I posted, I did a few more searches and I$ > found that SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM calls= > SYS$STARTUP:DEBUG$STARTUP_V74 and passes a parameter "V74".D > I > Debug$startup_v74.com calls sys$startup:debugsetup.com where TRACE gets 
 > defined. > K > The programmers are saying that defining a system logical name "TRACE" isBM > bad judgement and that should be changed, not their application module that$( > gets used and called from many places. >   G    While I think this is just an ego battle, and the programmers shouldtF    live with the reality that this is not going to change soon, I alsoD    agree that the convention of including $ in the name generated byD    debugsetup.com should have been followed so as to avoid conflict.  C    On the other hand I've run into lots of programmers who wouldn't A    honor the other side of that handshake.  $ reserved to DEC, err    Compaq, that is, um, HP.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:11:41 -0000d* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>A Subject: Re: SYS$LIBRARY:TRACE_V74.EXE on VMS 7.3-1 causing errorc+ Message-ID: <bpt3iu$jck@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>e  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:LLU81hHpRM12@eisner.encompasserve.org...   I >    While I think this is just an ego battle, and the programmers should3H >    live with the reality that this is not going to change soon, I alsoF >    agree that the convention of including $ in the name generated byF >    debugsetup.com should have been followed so as to avoid conflict.  ? The decision to call the shared library TRACE was no doubt madeuA in some ancient version of VMS. At some level, I think one has to 5 accept that the mere existance of SYS$SHARE:TRACE.EXE ? effectively reserves the logical name TRACE, $ notwithstanding.P   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:59:00 +00001O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>3Y Subject: Re: The Alpha Chip Engineering Group Revival (aka: today's HP/Intel  presentatioe0 Message-ID: <bpskp4$nkt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Greg Cagle wrote:e > Bob Koehler wrote: > F >>    Putting HP-UX 10.0 on our workstations led to a lot of breakage,+ >>    mostly in the CDE customization area.1 >>* >>    Can you say "not upward compatable"? >  > D > HP-UX 10 changed a LOT of things to draw HP-UX more into line withC > other Unixes and System V. On the other hand, I have seen a large.= > CAD application run "as is" on 11i - and it was compiled in36 > 1992. Including dynamically loaded shared libraries. > C > The interesting thing is that Sun eventually adopted CDE as well, C > which was largely a warmed over HP-VUE (although you'll never getR > Sun to admit that).1 >    Sort of.    @ The UI was warmed over VUE however a big chunk of the tools came& from Sun as did the integration piece.   Regards0 Andrew HarrisonV   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:04:50 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation SoftwareA8 Message-ID: <pb34svcg6h4lv5podjngacjsr8t2quovcn@4ax.com>  I On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:07:59 -0700, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>C wrote:   >n
 >jlsue wrote:  >uF >>>I've never heard of this!  How can you make such a claim when most J >>>external RAID arrays are file system neutral?  If the RAID array knows 9 >>>nothing of the file system, it cannot defrag a file...: >>>  >>>    k >>>n >>L >>I apologize.  I meant to say that RAID-type configurations "fragment" yourM >>files at the hardware level anyway.  Even with proof-reading I didn't catchP >>that mistake.D >> >> >>   >>H >Even by todays standards, I still have to believe that if you have hot E >files with a moderate to an extreme number of fragments, that still 8J >means that VMS must issue multiple I/O's for each extent, which is still G >generating unnecessary I/O for the disk subsystem, no matter how well  7 >structured or organized the raw data is on the array. t  F Please note that I'm not saying that fragmentation is never a problem.K Only that it's not the kind of problem that people have perceived it to be.cE There is a point at which fragmentation can cause performance issues.1  E Internal file fragmentation - i.e., fragmented records - could impact;H performance if there's a lot of that going on.  Fragmented files - i.e.,F where the internal records aren't fragmented so much, but the file hasJ multiple extents - aren't that big of a performance issue.  Again, up to a point.  J That point, in my experience, comes sometime around when the fragmentation  causes file *header* extensions.  F The reasons for this, in my experience, are that the files are alreadyE fragmented at the hardware level (implicit in RAID), so  there is not.H additional hardware overhead in moving to another file extent.  Or, moreF precisely perhaps, the overhead is small enough that it doesn't impact' measurable performance so much anymore.m  J Recall that OpenVMS engineers didn't even concede that fragmentation was aH problem on OpenVMS ODS2 file systems until someone decided that it was aJ pretty big market and money could be made - at least, that's the opinion II formed back then when I was a customer, and going to DECUS meetings where8 these issues were discussed.  G Again, that's not saying that fragmentation is "never" a problem.  OnlyrC that it's not the same kind of problem that you see on PC operatingA@ systems; and it's not as big a problem given the nature of RAID.   >oH >Anyone that is running big iron with VMS care to comment?  Is ODS disk I >fragmentation really a non-issue?  I really find that hard to believe...  >e  F I think every workload can have a different answer to this issue, it'sK important to know the environment in which the applications in question are G running.  That said, I'd love to hear other experiences as well.  I canKI only go by what I've seen, and I'm willing to accept that this experience- may not apply everywhere.    --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Nov 03 11:53:10 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)i) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Softwaree! Message-ID: <aGkfmohB3IhM@wvnvms>n  a In article <pb34svcg6h4lv5podjngacjsr8t2quovcn@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:dK > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:07:59 -0700, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>c > wrote: >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >>G >>>>I've never heard of this!  How can you make such a claim when most  K >>>>external RAID arrays are file system neutral?  If the RAID array knows e: >>>>nothing of the file system, it cannot defrag a file... >>>> >>>>     >>>> >>> M >>>I apologize.  I meant to say that RAID-type configurations "fragment" yoursN >>>files at the hardware level anyway.  Even with proof-reading I didn't catch >>>that mistake. >>>  >>>k >>>    >>>eI >>Even by todays standards, I still have to believe that if you have hot bF >>files with a moderate to an extreme number of fragments, that still K >>means that VMS must issue multiple I/O's for each extent, which is still  H >>generating unnecessary I/O for the disk subsystem, no matter how well 8 >>structured or organized the raw data is on the array.  > H > Please note that I'm not saying that fragmentation is never a problem.M > Only that it's not the kind of problem that people have perceived it to be.cG > There is a point at which fragmentation can cause performance issues.i > G > Internal file fragmentation - i.e., fragmented records - could impactnJ > performance if there's a lot of that going on.  Fragmented files - i.e.,H > where the internal records aren't fragmented so much, but the file hasL > multiple extents - aren't that big of a performance issue.  Again, up to a > point. > L > That point, in my experience, comes sometime around when the fragmentation" > causes file *header* extensions. > H > The reasons for this, in my experience, are that the files are alreadyG > fragmented at the hardware level (implicit in RAID), so  there is notuJ > additional hardware overhead in moving to another file extent.  Or, moreH > precisely perhaps, the overhead is small enough that it doesn't impact) > measurable performance so much anymore.i > L > Recall that OpenVMS engineers didn't even concede that fragmentation was aJ > problem on OpenVMS ODS2 file systems until someone decided that it was aL > pretty big market and money could be made - at least, that's the opinion IK > formed back then when I was a customer, and going to DECUS meetings where  > these issues were discussed. > I > Again, that's not saying that fragmentation is "never" a problem.  OnlytE > that it's not the same kind of problem that you see on PC operatingeB > systems; and it's not as big a problem given the nature of RAID. >  >>I >>Anyone that is running big iron with VMS care to comment?  Is ODS disk  J >>fragmentation really a non-issue?  I really find that hard to believe... >> > H > I think every workload can have a different answer to this issue, it'sM > important to know the environment in which the applications in question are I > running.  That said, I'd love to hear other experiences as well.  I can K > only go by what I've seen, and I'm willing to accept that this experiencel > may not apply everywhere.d >   F Badly fragmented free space can be a major problem.  Before we startedL running defragmentation software, directory (directories must be contiguous)E expansion failures were show stoppers often requiring downtime.  EvenlB today, the most common way we find that a drive is no longer beingC defragmented is when it starts having directory expansion failures.e     George cook@wvnet.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Nov 2003 10:25:39 -0800/ From: prosullivan@aol.com (prosullivan@aol.com)t) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Software = Message-ID: <a14b767a.0311241025.3b92a49b@posting.google.com>e  I > Anyone that is running big iron with VMS care to comment?  Is ODS disk jJ > fragmentation really a non-issue?  I really find that hard to believe...  D Well, 7.3-1 helps hugely with Xtended File Caching. Whether an extraB layer of defrag software gets in the way or not on top of XFC is aD moot point. You have to remember that file defragmenatation softwareB was conceived when disks were really slow (20ms + seek) and memoryF expensive. Since then, for VMS, you could be using XFC software cache,= controller physical cache, and disk physical cache in a givenlE environment. I used to use DFO etc when we had run out of options (orCF some-one set /HIGHWATER and /WINDOWS settings of $INIT wrong (again)).  F But in these days of Fiber disk transfer sizes, 3.9ms disk seek times,0 and controller-based mirroring, the argument forE DFO/PerfectCache/Rabbit is not economic. Have their days gone? If so,oD why make it so expensive? Look st DECDocument if you want an example* of amazingly old (and expensive) software.  A As someone who also used Polycenter (and paid dearly for it), youw? wonder if software maker have only a feeble grasp of reality...    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:59:26 -0500a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Xwindows accelerator key standards:) Message-ID: <3FC1C836.95F11892@istop.com>    X-No-Archive: True  @ There was a set of key binding standards for accelerator keys inI xwindows/motif menus, as documented in the old Digital Decwindows books. OJ However, these days, there doesn't seem to be much of a standard with someH applications using windows style bindings (for instance, CTRL-V ->paste,M CTRL-C for copy, CTRL-X for cut). Also, some applications tend to use the VMS P standard CTRL-Z as an accelerator to exit the application , but some use CTRL-E.  J What is the current thinking with regards to what accelerator key bindingsK should be used for xwindows applications on VMS ?  I have been issuing somenG cancel messages to reduce the amount of nefarious  posts, sorry if someaL messages are issued with a confusing name. Should one stick to the old motifP style guide or should one adopt the more widespread windows/apple key bindings ?  L And more importantly, should one use CTRL-E or CTRL-Z for application exit ?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.652 ************************V V7.1-5 Problem= Message-ID: <51f54c31.0311240002.5e2c4db3@posting.google.com>2  4 The reuse is set to transaction. See settings below;   Service SQS_SERVICE_AP%     State:                    RUNNINGo*     Owner:                    SQLSRV$DEFLT-     Owner Password:           <not specified> *     Protocol:     