1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 27 Nov 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 657       Contents: Re: A sort of a "me too" Re: A sort of a "me too" Re: A sort of a "me too" Re: A sort of a "me too"- Re: An apology to all the groups I've trolled ! Re: AS1200 setting ethernet speed  Re: Bill Jowett Death Penalty  Re: Bill Jowett Death Penalty 8 Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE Re: Design abuse by JF Mezei Re: Erasing disks: conclusion / Re: Hobbyist license and layered products - SLS  Re: JF Mezei Death Penalty Re: JF Mezei Death Penalty JF Mezei Get Rich Quick Scheme< Melbourne Australia: VAX 6000 + HSC + SA + cables available.+ Re: Procedure to get a UDP against JF Mezei + Re: Procedure to get a UDP against JF Mezei + Re: Procedure to get a UDP against JF Mezei 	 Re: Qio ? 	 Re: Qio ?  Re: RCU utility  Re: SimH: no cluster connection  Re: SimH: no cluster connection E Re: Straw poll time: anyone clustering Alpha 6.2-1H3 and Alpha 7.3-1? 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday   Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software  Re: VMS Defragmentation Software vms to alpha Re: Who is Alan Erskine? Re: Who is Alan Erskine?  Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL  Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL  Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL  Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL  Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL  Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL  Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL  Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL Re: Wildcard searching5 Re: X Views: Plotting Capacity Date by David W. Bynon 8 Re: [INFO]Frog introduces his big dick in Mezei's bottom  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:41:10 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ! Subject: Re: A sort of a "me too" F Message-ID: <ql7xb.5308$p8C.1577@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Keith Parris wrote:  >>H >> Best of luck, Carl.  I went through a period of 11 months with only 3H >> weeks of work and thought I might well have to throw away two decadesF >> plus of VMS experience and work with Linux or (even worse) Windows.G >> But I was blessed with the chance to continue working with VMS, as I  >> hope you will be. >>G >> One good sign is that after 18-24 months of silence, I've started to F >> get calls from recruiters again.  Economy must be starting to move. >>8 >> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message( >> news:<3FB7E7C2.103BA515@istop.com>...E >>> Having said this, I think that VMS management are just like white E >>> fluffy sheep, scared shitless of people likle Stallard, Blackmore D >>> and Carly and who do not want to rock the boat for fear of being
 >>> fired. >>@ >> Carly Fiorina and Scott Stallard have been very supportive of@ >>  OpenVMS. Carly has made many public statements in support of >> OpenVMS.  In the E >> June 30 webcast announcement for Integrity Servers, Scott Stallard  >> had2 >> very strong positive words to say about OpenVMS >>L (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=scott+stallard+openvms+group:comp.os.vms&L hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=cf15391e.0306301919.37c5a7f1%40pos ting.google.com&rnum=5) D >> and even arranged for a slide promoting VMS to be inserted in theF >> webcast just at the exact point where a stock HP video talked aboutG >> Windows, HP-UX, and Linux and omitted VMS.  (I've seen a more-recent H >> version of the video that now does include VMS, but this incident and >> others like >>L http://groups.google.com/groups?q=scott+stallard+openvms+group:comp.os.vms&hL l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=cf15391e.0303100815.15c74c53%40post ing.google.com&rnum=2 E >> show how Scott Stallard has been willing to counteract and correct * >> omissions of VMS in other areas of HP.) >  > Oh, goody, goody!  > : > Now, I'll ask the same things I asked of Fred (sort of): > H > When can we expect to start seeing the ads in mainstream publications?4 > ...on TV? ...in the trade papers? ...on the radio? > E > When will HP start winning back lost ISVs? ...winning over UN*X and  > Windows ISVs?  > F > When will we see the price reductions that VMS *MUST* have to become > and remain competitive?  > F > When will we start seeing OpenVMS positions on the Job boards again?    I I seem to recollect an expression that involves the nether regions of the G earth (no, not 'Neverland') and temperatures which cause most motion to  cease.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:34:52 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: A sort of a "me too" ' Message-ID: <3FC5389C.D6296C85@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > K > I seem to recollect an expression that involves the nether regions of the I > earth (no, not 'Neverland') and temperatures which cause most motion to  > cease.  E When you said "nether regions", I thought you might make reference to  "where the sun don't shine".   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 21:04:22 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: A sort of a "me too" ' Message-ID: <3FC569B6.60B1F466@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > K > I seem to recollect an expression that involves the nether regions of the I > earth (no, not 'Neverland') and temperatures which cause most motion to  > cease.  C I'm reminded of a quote from a movie called, "My Fellow Americans": H "Let's avoid a potential embarassment and remind Vice President MatthewsH that these people are from the NetherLANDs, and not the nether regions!"   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 20:19:41 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)! Subject: Re: A sort of a "me too" = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0311262019.5342353c@posting.google.com>   j carl@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<14NOV200322522562@nospam.gerg.tamu.edu>...J > Well, it's happened to me too - today was my last day at my current job. > L > I may or may not be working with VMS at my next job (since I havn't got itL > yet, I don't know), and so I may or may not be hanging around here so much > in the future. > < > It's been fun and interesting, at least a lot of the time. > 
 > --- Carl  @ Good luck on your future endeavors. Hope you get some VMS work.    Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:24:53 -0600  From: stellar@idirect.com (Rod) 6 Subject: Re: An apology to all the groups I've trolled1 Message-ID: <_YydnT6sUMTYq1ii4p2dnA@giganews.com>   H I think that's hilarious.  I mean...it's disgusting.  Bizarre.  Gross.  D Wow.  Really gross.  But then...you know...today, what isn't?  Ever G since Liberace and Elvis died...everything has gone to Hell.  But it's  G funny too.  Amusing in a...disgusting, gross, sordid, demented sort of   way.  It made me laugh.  Sigh.  : What's the world coming to?  Hell, what am *I* coming to??  J I hate trolls so...I guess I'm obligated to hate *you*, man, but...I just G don't have it in my heart.  Maybe because...you made me laugh, and...I  3 don't read those newsgroups anyway.  So...f*ck 'em.   > It must be due to the paucity of humor online, that I laughed?  I Obviously a lil taste of da Moan-ree-al humor.  Da frog 'ha ha'.  'Ha ha  3 ha!'  It certainly is diff-eh-rant, man, for chure.   J I never trolled any newsgroup, myself.  Yet.  Maybe I should start?  What J is the big pay-off of trolling, besides jollies/rocks/whatever?  You seem B like expert.  You ever get any offers of money out of it, to stop?   Rod    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:26:48 -0700 ( From: "Jim Mehlhop" <jmehlhop@qwest.net>* Subject: Re: AS1200 setting ethernet speed1 Message-ID: <SM9xb.655$T22.41337@news.uswest.net>   < Thanks to all and I will download the documentation as well.    , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A29772.475A3F8C@SendSpamHere.ORG...@ > In article <bq1l5i$8412@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>, Karl Rohwedder- <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> writes:  > >VAXman- wrote: E > >> In article <ZDSwb.1393$sW1.51027@news.uswest.net>, "Jim Mehlhop"  <jmehlhop@qwest.net> writes: > >>K > >>>I have acquired a used as1200 and I do not have any manuals.  How do I  set @ > >>>the first ethernet adapter to run at 100MBS or Auto detect? > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi Jim, > >>! > >> At eh console prompt, enter:  > >> > >> P00>>> show e*_mode > >>C > >> This will show you the two ethernet adaptors and their current  configuration.) > >> To set it to 100bT Fast Full Duplex:  > >>  > >> P00>>> set eia0_mode FastDF > > 8 > >---------------------------^^ its fastFD of course... > J > Dyslexia... 'Tis why I try to cut-n-paste whenever I possibly can.  It's also2 > the reason I have symbols like HEPL defined too. >  > --  2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2003 03:28:06 +0100) From: George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> & Subject: Re: Bill Jowett Death Penalty; Message-ID: <f60df7cb8f80ef9dbeaf734078bae27b@mixmaster.it>   M Bill Jowett the coward <jowett@sympatico.ca> and <billjowett@hotmail.com> hid 3 behind Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> and trolled:   J >oh for gods sake would YOU shut the fuck up?  you seem to be the fucking I >pussy in this situation since you don;t have the balls to actually make  H >a post from anything beside a remailer. You're a coward, a pain in the   >ass and a fucking twit to boot.  P You mean like you, Bill Jowett?  Is that why you hid your true identity, because you're so manly and so brave?   I ROTFL!!! . . . this is the best support Mezei can get???  What a loser...    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:01:36 GMT 1 From: Marc Bissonnette <dragnet@internalysis.com> & Subject: Re: Bill Jowett Death PenaltyA Message-ID: <Xns943FE016B76F4dragnetinternalysisc@207.35.177.135>   , George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in4 news:f60df7cb8f80ef9dbeaf734078bae27b@mixmaster.it:   2 > Bill Jowett the coward <jowett@sympatico.ca> andE > <billjowett@hotmail.com> hid behind Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>  > and trolled:   > B >>oh for gods sake would YOU shut the fuck up?  you seem to be theC >>fucking pussy in this situation since you don;t have the balls to H >>actually make a post from anything beside a remailer. You're a coward,/ >>a pain in the ass and a fucking twit to boot.  > @ > You mean like you, Bill Jowett?  Is that why you hid your true1 > identity, because you're so manly and so brave?  > B > ROTFL!!! . . . this is the best support Mezei can get???  What a > loser...   > I You're spamming all sorts of unrelated newsgroups in a personal vendetta  G against Mezei, without even the pair of balls to use your own name and  J *you're* calling people a loser ? It's *real* easy to create a "vendetta" C when you're anonymous. A real man, or woman, with true strength of  > conviction, would use their own name to make the accusations.   J Anonymity is fine and well for general posting or looking for information J that you don't want others to know you're looking for, but when you stoop I to being a yellow-bellied coward by using anonymity to insult and harass  K others, you're no better than a schoolyard bully who only threatens others  ( whilst amongst a crowd of fellow thugs.      --   Marc BissonnetteB CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: http://www.internalysis.comF Something To Sell? Looking To Buy? http://www.whitewaterclassifieds.ca1 Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 14:09:31 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)A Subject: Re: DCL Enhancements: Error messages for OPEN and DEFINE = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0311261409.2c63ef99@posting.google.com>   b Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<3FC3AD26.719C170E@sture.homeip.net>... > Alan E. Feldman wrote: >  > ,snipped for brevity>  >  > > Paul Sture wroteK > > > > > I've known about it for at least 20 years, and even used it to my = > > > > > advantage on occasions (usually for DCL debugging).  > > > >  > > > > Can you tell us how? > > > J > > > OK, here's a little bit of DCL I write on any new site where I might) > > > want to do edits on multiple files.  > > > ' > > > $! EDIT.COM - edit multiple files  > > > $!$ > > > $       open /read in edit.dat > > > $loop:# > > > $       read/end=exit in data ? > > > $       version = f$parse(data,,,"VERSION","SYNTAX_ONLY")  > > > $!      show sym version# > > > $       data = data - version , > > > $       def/user sys$input sys$command/ > > > $       edit/edt 'data' /command=edit.edt  > > > $       goto loop  > > > $exit: > > > $       close in > > >  >  [...]N > > > While debugging or enhancing EDIT.INI (and it can get quite complex), atL > > > present I can ^Y out of EDIT.COM, change my EDIT.EDT, and then pick up7 > > > from where I left off, using the next input file.  > > > H > > > OK, nowadays I have a workstation where I could do that editing inM > > > another DECterm session, but when I was tied to a single VT, I found it " > > > a productive way of working. > > ? > > But how would this example break? OPEN is only called once.  > >  > E > Sorry I should have mentioned that when restricted to a single VT I E > would CTRL-Y out of the procedure, do my edits, then resume with @.  > H > Since no close is executed, the record pointers are left as they were,* > and you can carry on where you left off.  E But you can resume with CONTINUE and the OPEN command would have been F run only once and your record pointer would remain intact. (Yes, you'd@ have to spawn a subprocess to edit your edit.edt.) The suggestedA change for the OPEN command would then have no effect. (Of course D you'd be returned to your last editing session with the old edit.dat9 in effect, but do *QUIT or *EXIT and you're on your way!)    [...]    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:36:26 +0100 (CET) ) From: George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> % Subject: Re: Design abuse by JF Mezei ; Message-ID: <0e0737ac9049642a0cf75c7380dd1414@mixmaster.it>   B JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> threw a temper tantrum and hissy fit:   >Frog-Admin wrote:N >> There is currently some "design abuse" running against Frog Remailer + Frog >> Mail2newsJ >> My filters have so far intercepted 20+messages in a couple hours, and I >> zipped them here: > K >Your service should be banished from the internet. You and your friends at K >dizum.com are the source of some really serious offsences on the internet, O >including indentity theft, slander, obnoxious crossposting , and the list goes  >on an on and on.   G It is YOU who should be banished from internet as well as sympatico.ca, M bellglobal.ca, and videotron.ca for allowing you to troll uninterruptedly for M YEARS and YEARS and YEARS.  You and the ISPs who enable your trolling are the P source of some really serious offenses on the internet, including identity theftL (see list below), slander, obnoxious trolling and crossposting, and the list goes on and on and on.  H All of this is easily verifiable doing a google search on you which willH instantly return history of your trolling going far back into the 1990s.  L For those who don't know, JF Mezei is a well known usenet troll and kook who8 just recently has trolled with the following identities:  $ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>  nobody <nobody@nobody.com>& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:24:13 +0000 (UTC) ) From: "Jeff" <dirkdiggler@totalise.co.uk> & Subject: Re: Erasing disks: conclusion2 Message-ID: <bq325d$lte$1@hercules.btinternet.com>  K This guy has the right idea, seem to destroy everything (Media Player clip)   B mms://stream.techtv.com/windows/unscrewed/2003/us030918a_165_0.asf    < "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu> wrote in messageF news:EEC575D39D864C4BBAE8CD309982B0F20816EA@sphnt33.sph.uth.tmc.edu... Hi, L Thanks to the many who offered suggestions. In particular R. Klute's link toE the Data Recovery Labs and Hoff's comments and pointer to the FAQ. My K initial inclination to go the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE route was not feasible C as these are MSCP served SCSI and that command fails. Also, my good K intentions to recycle older SCSI drives seems to be less worthy if there is D little demand for these. Finally, given that the data sensitivity inF question relates to HIPPA compliance, the risk/reward factor that HoffJ mentions is very significant. So, the suggestions of physical destruction,L including the possible use of firearms, which I first passed over as amusing7 are now considered as the most reasonable alternatives.  Thanks,  Pat G.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:41:35 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 8 Subject: Re: Hobbyist license and layered products - SLS% Message-ID: <3FC53A2F.1169A8@fsi.net>    Bart Zorn wrote: > F > I am not sure if ABS is included in the hobbyist licenses (I have toF > look at my system at home), but if it is, I would recommend that you& > have a look at that in stead of SLS.  H My experience runs counter to that. If we had to switch to ABS from SLS,D we would have to go back to having operators run backups manually asD most of the automation surrounding our two STK L700E libraries would< break and be irreparable. ABS just takes away too much, IMO.  A Put it this way: if SLS is a pre-adolescent, ABS remains unborn.    H The "adult" product, TapeSys is really only its late teens and has a lotD of "growing up" to do before it's ready to play the big time without  gobs and gobs of DCL "wrappers".   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2003 01:39:57 +0100) From: George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> # Subject: Re: JF Mezei Death Penalty ; Message-ID: <58d463c37bd3361e7b81be1234f145d5@mixmaster.it>   2 JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> the agitator trolled:  L >Has anyone participated in the process of getting a UDP against a network ? > L >Where would one go first to start the process ? Is there good authoritativeM >documentation on the process ? Is this something which is next to impossible  >to accomplish ?  K Oh, are you planning to get a UDP against sympatico.ca, bellglobal.ca., and P videotron.ca for promoting your ABUSE of usenet for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS???  M Here's a list of some of your recent trolling identities for them to help you  out:  $ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>  nobody <nobody@nobody.com>& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:59:03 -0500 % From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> # Subject: Re: JF Mezei Death Penalty ; Message-ID: <D%bxb.13997$Eq1.1308667@news20.bellglobal.com>   I oh for gods sake would YOU shut the fuck up?  you seem to be the fucking  H pussy in this situation since you don;t have the balls to actually make G a post from anything beside a remailer. You're a coward, a pain in the   ass and a fucking twit to boot. I Go ahead, post some more shite to prove what a fucking man you are. Pussy    George Orwell wrote:4 > JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> the agitator trolled: >  > M >>Has anyone participated in the process of getting a UDP against a network ?  >>M >>Where would one go first to start the process ? Is there good authoritative N >>documentation on the process ? Is this something which is next to impossible >>to accomplish ?  >  > M > Oh, are you planning to get a UDP against sympatico.ca, bellglobal.ca., and R > videotron.ca for promoting your ABUSE of usenet for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS??? > O > Here's a list of some of your recent trolling identities for them to help you  > out: > & > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>+ > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>  > nobody <nobody@nobody.com>( > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>& > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>' > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>' > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> $ > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ) > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> $ > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> * > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>( > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>! > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> ' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> # > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> % > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org> " > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org> ! > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> & > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> # > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org> " > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> ' > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> & > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> ( > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>* > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> ' > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> ( > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ) > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> * > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> ' > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> & > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>$ > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>% > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> * > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>' > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> $ > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>' > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> ( > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>) > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> + > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> $ > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>* > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>. > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>- > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> , > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>* > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>) > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> , > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org>! > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  > Q <queue@continuum.net>  > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>, > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>+ > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>  >    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2003 01:56:59 +01000 From: futureworlds <nobody@mail.futureworlds.it>' Subject: JF Mezei Get Rich Quick Scheme C Message-ID: <ae2a921777bf9babc3190ab9ff0ff416@mail.futureworlds.it>   P Get a few thousand t-shirts printed up saying "JF Mezei Trolled My Newsgroup AndP All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt".  Sell them for $19.95 (get them made cheap inN some shithole like Malaysia or China or Montreal).  With as many newsgroups as/ this motherfucker trolls you'll make a fortune!   M For added appeal, print a different one of his many trolling aliases below on N each shirt, or one of his favorite sayings, like "Cars Are Evil" or "Bush Is A- Dictator" or "The USA Is A Police State" etc.   $ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>  nobody <nobody@nobody.com>& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>o' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>r% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>e$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>u( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>p" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>M& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>i) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>J' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>n" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>a* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>e Q <queue@continuum.net>n Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:06:27 +1100MC From: "Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart" <u1276a@uxnxixtxe.com.au>eE Subject: Melbourne Australia: VAX 6000 + HSC + SA + cables available.e, Message-ID: <3fc56a35_1@news.iprimus.com.au>   Greetings Gentlepeople,t  4 I've been offered a stack of potential VAX discards.&                              =========+ Permission has to be sought for some items.e2 NB. I've given contact details to a dealer friend.  3 They are located in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. 3 If not taken, they will be junked before Christmas.e   From my notes:$ - VAX 7360 (Numeric dyslexia, 7630?) - VAXEN 6610 x 3, 6520, 6310 - 3 x SAs (ESE50, RA72s, RA90s)d - Star Coupler x 5 - TZ875, TZ87s, TA79 - HSC70 x 3, HSC40
 - SZ12 x lots] - DS2100(s), DS3100(s), VS3100se" - Spare fans, power supplies, etc. - Bulk SDI and CI cables.-  6 If I can't resist, I'm liable to hire a 3 tonne truck.  < If you reply, remove the four 'x's from the posting address.   Regards, Andy.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:21:21 +0100 (CET)D) From: George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> 4 Subject: Re: Procedure to get a UDP against JF Mezei; Message-ID: <1bcc85de28cccefc3be1fbce41f8a0a7@mixmaster.it>   O JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> the big crybaby donned his diapers and trolled forv pity:e  I >Can anyone point me to the procedures to start a UDP against 2 domains ?,$ >(dizum and the gilgamesh domains) ?  J Actually, that should be a UDP against sympatico.ca and bellglobal.com for4 allowing you to troll endlessly for years and years.  K >They are accomplices to continued slander and impersonation against me and:N >many others, their headers direct abuse complaints to some US university thatL >has nothing to do with their service and the list of bad behaviour on their >part goes on and on and on.  O Which is nothing compared to the thousands upon thousands of troll posts you'veyI made to numerous groups under your own name as well as some "interesting"y* aliases, a few of which are sampled below.   >Enough is enough.  N Indeed, enough is enough, pack up your marbles and go home, everybody is on toK you and your little temper tantrum and pity party because a group of peoplelP finally got fed up with your YEARS of TROLLING and decided to do something about it..  3 Now, please do us all a favor and FUCK OFF AND DIE!o  J Some of Mr. Mezei's trolling identities, used mostly on rec.travel.air andM sci.space.shuttle, easily verifiable by comparing headers and by checking hist& posting history on groups.google.com :  $ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>M nobody <nobody@nobody.com>& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>u Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>m" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>>' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>s' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>I% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>w Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>e! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>T# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>i  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>- Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>t! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>o  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>n& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>f& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>a' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>:( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>o' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>t( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>i& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>-) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>0' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>m" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>i* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>n* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>v Q <queue@continuum.net>t Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:34:18 -0600e From: stellar@idirect.com (Rod)o4 Subject: Re: Procedure to get a UDP against JF Mezei1 Message-ID: <jpKdnasHZNMX21iiRVn-tA@giganews.com>m  , nobody@mixmaster.it (George Orwell) wrote... >g4 >Now, please do us all a favor and FUCK OFF AND DIE!  E Maybe he's cooperating, but JF wants to die *here*.  Among friends.  s- And...all that crap is his death rattle.  lolg   RodB   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2003 04:28:10 +0100) From: George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> 4 Subject: Re: Procedure to get a UDP against JF Mezei; Message-ID: <ca1e48b55acb9f41b5797bc60b4dc298@mixmaster.it>   ; JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> feigned innocence and trolled:    >"Stephen K. Gielda" wrote:lK >> Careful with gilgamesh, that is the Frog remailer and he only runs it toeH >> be able to use it as a weapon against those who dare to criticize his >> behavior. > O >Yep. I've been his target in one newsgroup for years, but in recent months, heiN >has started to cross post his insults to many of the newsgroups I participateL >it and it has become extremely annoying.  His overdose of abuse will be his >own undoing, I am hoping.  O Oh you poor baby!  You've been trolling many newsgroups for YEARS and YEARS and P YEARS and now you're all flustered because someone is exposing you.  Poor littleI innocent you.  And you feel all puffed up and brave because you think Mr. K Stephen Gielda is helping you out of the goodness of his kind little heart.dJ Poor brainless fool, you're just a stupid pawn in his game to get at Frog.M You're nothing but roadkill to these people.  Be careful when you try to play M with the big boys, they'll eat you up alive for breakfast and shit you out by1 mid-morning.  N Just in case there's anyone left who doesn't know who this nut is, look up hisO posting history in google.  He's been trolling for a decade, so there's lots ofp sewage to wade through.w  M >By the way, if I traceroute to another obnoxious remailer, dizum.com, I haveHJ >XS4ALL as the last hop to them. And an nslookup on dizum.com's IP addressM >reveals that the IP is owned by XS4ALL, so efforts should be concentrated on L >those who provide IP connectivity since the owners of the remailers are the= >guilty party and are not acting reasonably to prevent abuse.   L Oooh, another fool who thinks he can go after Dizum!  LOL, always fun to see doofuses in action.-  L Below are just a few of the trolling aliases this netkook has used recently:  $ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>. nobody <nobody@nobody.com>& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>+" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>n' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>4" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>i' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>b' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>s% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>l Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>i  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>0 Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>o$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>y! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>n  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>l% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>>$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>m& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>s& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>t' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>i( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>r' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>o$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>o( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>c" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>t" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>n* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>a Q <queue@continuum.net>- Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>F   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 14:48:36 -0800# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)> Subject: Re: Qio ?= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0311261448.2b80d4d9@posting.google.com>r  r denis.fayaud@netspace.mc (Denis Fayaud) wrote in message news:<93820504.0311250204.1c7e6ec9@posting.google.com>... > Hi there != > I use to interface a serial line device using set host/dte.gF > This device is sending ASCII messages when a new event is happening.- > So I use a DecTerm to display the messages.e > I > I'd like to display those messages in a color box to see their severityO5 > (i.e. green message means OK, red is bad and so on)/ > @ > I know how to do the box using some extras DecWindows widgets.) > I know how to get the message with QIO.S > 2 > But I DON'T know how to manage those two loops !
 > any ideas ?a > thanx in advance; The routine that handles the modem control for set host/dted, is in SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]DTE_AT.C;1& This should give you a few pointers :) Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:35:30 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Qio ?; Message-ID: <5iexb.15425$dt2.1175188@news20.bellglobal.com>l  0 "dooley" <dooleys@snowy.net.au> wrote in message7 news:1ca82fc6.0311261448.2b80d4d9@posting.google.com...d
 ...snip...= > The routine that handles the modem control for set host/dte,. > is in SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]DTE_AT.C;1( > This should give you a few pointers :) > Phil   In the following URL: A http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html#my_demosiN you will find client/server programs in my free demo area that show how to useJ SYS$QIO to send/receive to/from a memory device known as a mail box (note:L this has nothing to do with e-mail). I've used similar code to connect to an& async port then operate a smart modem.  J Just click on the hyperlink then type Ctrl-F to search for the string $QIO  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,e Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ 8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:11:03 GMT*6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RCU utility: Message-ID: <bV6xb.616$u96.250@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>  L The SWXCR (DAC-960) utilities are included on the Alpha firmware CD.  Make aK floppy with a Windows box or run directly from CD with up to date firmware.e   -- Andy Bustamantee remove the ASCII 95s to replya2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:6.0.0.22.2.20031126095346.01f65dc0@raptor.psccos.com...E > Anybody have a source for this?  I just acquired an AS1000 that haseD > a SWXCR controller in it, and I need to be able to reconfigure it.2 > Apparently, the only way is via the RCU utility. >s > ------L > +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+L > | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |L > | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |L > | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |L > | http://www.process.com        |                                        |L > +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ >l >n   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 12:38:33 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i( Subject: Re: SimH: no cluster connection3 Message-ID: <EoPe3hjTa0hj@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  g In article <3fc4ac7c$0$1742$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>, Peter Sutter <nospam@sopac.com.au> writes: 	 > Didier,o > K > It is such a long time since I really used OpenVMS, I remember things noteI > anymore accurately. If you can access the network with tcpip and decnetyK > from the emulated OpenVMS, then the network is up and running. But wasn't@M > there something like set service enable on either the circuit or line leveloJ > under decnet, one had to enable it for remote boot and clustering on all. > nodes participating in clustering and boot?  > % > $mc ncp set circ qna-0 service ena?   C    Service enabled was only needed to enable a MOM/MOP download andiD    only on the download server.  It's only relation to clustering is@    that satellite get thier initial load via MOM/MOP before they    join the cluster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:58:39 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@free.fr>( Subject: Re: SimH: no cluster connection' Message-ID: <3FC5301E.8FCE10D1@free.fr>r   Bob Koehler a crit :l > E >    Service enabled was only needed to enable a MOM/MOP download andpF >    only on the download server.  It's only relation to clustering isB >    that satellite get thier initial load via MOM/MOP before they >    join the cluster.  & There are no satellites in my cluster.8 I will try DECnet instead of LAN for inter cluster comm.   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:58:20 GMT>( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>N Subject: Re: Straw poll time: anyone clustering Alpha 6.2-1H3 and Alpha 7.3-1?A Message-ID: <Mt8xb.12861$P%1.11416042@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>'  K First, HP recognizes two levels of cluster support WARRANTED and MIGRATION. E Warranted support means HP will respond to all problems identified bygI customers with those versions in the cluster.  Migration support means HPuI has tested the mix, and will respond to problems identified by customers,i; but will in certain cases HP will request that the customeri5 upgrade/downgrade to a WARRANTED configuration.  See:g  S http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/OVMS_731_alpha_install.PDFt section 2.1m  H So 6.2-1h3 would not enjoy even migration support. So it's really in the realm of, "you're on your own."c  J That and there were some important changes made between 6.2 and 7.3-1.  IfK it is to work at all you'll want to be sure your 6.2 cluster patches are inw" place especially: ALPCLUSIO01_062.  > Would I run a production cluster in such a configuration?  NO.   Todd Maurerd OpenVMS Supporte    7 "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in messagei* news:3FC2299A.45549909@sture.homeip.net... > Nic Clews wrote: > >c > > Experiences good or bad? > >nG > > I know the docco's don't recommend it. We'll take latest patches as 	 > > read.c > >< >RE > Sorry, not with that combination. But it's perhaps worth relating ahH > problem I had about 6 years ago with a combination which fell into theG > "probably works, but don't come to us if you have problems" category.o >0F > We had a directory corruption problem (files out of order) and DEC'sG > response was "please upgrade". Fortunately ANALYZE/DISK got us out ofcC > that problem, but I have been wary of such a scenario ever since.- >- > --   > Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:48:58 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday2 Message-ID: <cvWdnVCxOOELaFmiRVn-vg@metrocast.net>  3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message02 news:mmd9sv4jqecqckoa0li8nedr3coo56v1cv@4ax.com...J > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:04:32 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> > wrote: >. > >jlsue wrote:.I > >> namely:  a) DEC/CPQ/HPQ is bad because they decided to not invest ins alphaoF > >> to allow it to keep up, and b) Sun is not bad, even though it has decided ' > >> not to invest in Sparc to keep up.I > >uH > >Compaq made a conscious decision to abandon a better product so as to helpI > >maintain good relationship with Intel even of Alpha, combined with VMS  andeH > >Tru64 generated more profit than wintel crap the deal was intented to help.s >nJ > Please be careful to separate fact from opinion.  This may be your view,B > but it certainly isn't based on anything supported by real facts
 available.  H Bullshit.  The profits generated by VMS are a matter of record, straightA from the mouth of its VP and more recently corroborated by Terry.-L Reasonable estimates of the profits of Tru64 can be made from the VMS figureJ and the overall profits of the division they shared with NSK, as specifiedL in quarterly and annual reports.  The revenues of these products were statedE publicly by Compaq multiple times.  The revenues, profits, and losses L generated by the Wintel portion of Compaq are also a matter of record, since4 those products were isolated in their own divisions.  L The development costs of Alpha were specified at the time EV8 was cancelled.J Alpha's performance leadership is, of course, also a matter of record - asI are the statements of its developers about its future potential (and veryeF specifically about its advantages over Itanic, which Compaq associated= itself with by publishing a 1999 white paper on the subject).S   > # > But by now, the decision is done.l  F Indeed.  And some of us are interested in making sure that the logicalK consequences of that decision are fully played out, rather than swept under  the rug.   >e > >oK > >HP's announcements that they won't even honour the "Plan of record" thato theyJ > >had promised to honour, combined with Carly statements admitting HP wasF > >winding down Alpha faster than had originally been planned is quite	 differentD > >from Sun handling of SPARC. >@E > You still seem to have difficulty discerning a difference between a J > commitment, and a plan.  The POR is how HP "plans" to honor commitments,J > but there are often other means, and sometimes the plans have to change.  E Then perhaps JF should just have said that HP has failed to honor itsoG *commitments*, since that word was also used in specifically reassuringsJ customers that a 130 nm., SOI EV79 product would be created to help smoothJ any near-term effects that the eventual required migration to Itanic might cause.  H Of course, since cHumPaq has proven repeatedly that it won't honor *any*I promises, commitments, 'plans of record' that it decides not to, nor evendA offer any apology for such perfidy, such hair-splitting is fairlya unnecessary.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:05:52 -0500u* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday2 Message-ID: <3YKdnUn6upoWZFmi4p2dnA@metrocast.net>  3 "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message + news:cN5xb.9754$Oj7.503@news.cpqcorp.net...u+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:dH > > Sorry - I haven't looked recently.  Has IBM submitted a p690 1.7 GHz< > > POWER4+ result other than for their 32-processor system? >yC > To my knowledge, IBM has yet to grace us with anything other thano > their 32-CPU result. >sE > > If not, comparing against Itanic 32-processor results is the onlyl  > > direct comparison available. >nE > Then you should be saying per-CPU in a 32-processor system.  SimplyWF > saying "per-CPU" invokes in at least some minds the idea you want toH > state what a _processor_ might be able to do, not what a processor canC > do in a _specific system_.  Particularly when it is prefaced with C > stuff along the lines of "we are talking about processors right."n! > (Paraphrase, not direct quote).   D If TPC-C has anything at all to say about processor performance (andK remember, Rob was the one who brought it up in supposed support of Itanic'smJ 'leadership'), then it says it *only* in the context of specific systems -# because that's what TPC-C measures.e  H It is true that some other benchmarks are far less dependent upon systemJ details outside the processor.  But to any degree that TPC-C is applicableE to this discussion at all, my observation stands:  in the only directaF comparison available (scores generated by systems with equal processor+ counts), Itanic significantly lags POWER4+.e  F And one could offer at least some foundation for slightly more generalG observations.  For example, while the comparison with Superdome is lesstK direct (the only Itanic Superdome TPC-C submission having 64 processors vs.lH NEC's and POWER4+'s 32 processors), one might at least tentatively inferH from Superdome's 64-processor score that a 32-processor Superdome systemL would also significantly lag IBM's TPC-C score.  One might even infer that aL 4-processor POWER4+ system could give the 4-processor HP zx1 Itanic system aJ good challenge, but this requires more assumptions about just how linearlyL the IBM system scales up, so one certainly couldn't infer actual superiority' at that level without solider evidence.l   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:51:07 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected MondayF Message-ID: <Lu7xb.5464$p8C.5115@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Bill Todd wrote:5 > "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 4 > news:mmd9sv4jqecqckoa0li8nedr3coo56v1cv@4ax.com.../ >> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:04:32 -0500, JF Mezeip% >> <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:- >> >>> jlsue wrote:F >>>> namely:  a) DEC/CPQ/HPQ is bad because they decided to not investA >>>> in alpha to allow it to keep up, and b) Sun is not bad, even7= >>>> though it has decided not to invest in Sparc to keep up.  >>>uF >>> Compaq made a conscious decision to abandon a better product so as@ >>> to help maintain good relationship with Intel even of Alpha,F >>> combined with VMS and Tru64 generated more profit than wintel crap" >>> the deal was intented to help. >>E >> Please be careful to separate fact from opinion.  This may be yourMC >> view, but it certainly isn't based on anything supported by realp >> facts available.o >sA > Bullshit.  The profits generated by VMS are a matter of record,rE > straight from the mouth of its VP and more recently corroborated by F > Terry. Reasonable estimates of the profits of Tru64 can be made fromD > the VMS figure and the overall profits of the division they sharedG > with NSK, as specified in quarterly and annual reports.  The revenuesuG > of these products were stated publicly by Compaq multiple times.  TheuB > revenues, profits, and losses generated by the Wintel portion of? > Compaq are also a matter of record, since those products werec" > isolated in their own divisions. >.C > The development costs of Alpha were specified at the time EV8 wasaA > cancelled. Alpha's performance leadership is, of course, also aGF > matter of record - as are the statements of its developers about itsC > future potential (and very specifically about its advantages overeB > Itanic, which Compaq associated itself with by publishing a 1999 > white paper on the subject). >t >>$ >> But by now, the decision is done. >dH > Indeed.  And some of us are interested in making sure that the logicalG > consequences of that decision are fully played out, rather than sweptt > under the rug. >s >> >>>oG >>> HP's announcements that they won't even honour the "Plan of record"yD >>> that they had promised to honour, combined with Carly statementsG >>> admitting HP was winding down Alpha faster than had originally beene: >>> planned is quite different from Sun handling of SPARC. >>F >> You still seem to have difficulty discerning a difference between a> >> commitment, and a plan.  The POR is how HP "plans" to honorB >> commitments, but there are often other means, and sometimes the >> plans have to change. >pG > Then perhaps JF should just have said that HP has failed to honor its > > *commitments*, since that word was also used in specifically@ > reassuring customers that a 130 nm., SOI EV79 product would be@ > created to help smooth any near-term effects that the eventual+ > required migration to Itanic might cause.o ><D > Of course, since cHumPaq has proven repeatedly that it won't honorD > *any* promises, commitments, 'plans of record' that it decides notF > to, nor even offer any apology for such perfidy, such hair-splitting > is fairly unnecessary.    L Hair-splitting isn't in carly's(tm) vocabulary. She has her hairdresser spinJ those away at first sight.....probably while she's jetting off to Davos to3 promote OpenVMS to world leaders and pop musicians.>   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:48:57 GMTU# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected MondayF Message-ID: <Js7xb.5444$p8C.3671@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   jlsue wrote:. > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:04:32 -0500, JF Mezei$ > <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: >t >> jlsue wrote: E >>> namely:  a) DEC/CPQ/HPQ is bad because they decided to not investlG >>> in alpha to allow it to keep up, and b) Sun is not bad, even thoughc5 >>> it has decided not to invest in Sparc to keep up.d >>E >> Compaq made a conscious decision to abandon a better product so asc? >> to help maintain good relationship with Intel even of Alpha, E >> combined with VMS and Tru64 generated more profit than wintel crapn! >> the deal was intented to help.c >nD > Please be careful to separate fact from opinion.  This may be yourB > view, but it certainly isn't based on anything supported by real > facts available.    I That you and I may not have *access* to that information - if it exists -eI should not get in the way of inferences which can be made based on publicoL facts. I'd bet $100 that JF is closer to the truth in his statement than you give him credit for.     >t# > But by now, the decision is done.- >- >>F >> HP's announcements that they won't even honour the "Plan of record"C >> that they had promised to honour, combined with Carly statements F >> admitting HP was winding down Alpha faster than had originally been9 >> planned is quite different from Sun handling of SPARC.g >pE > You still seem to have difficulty discerning a difference between am= > commitment, and a plan.  The POR is how HP "plans" to honorlG > commitments, but there are often other means, and sometimes the plansr > have to change.  >e >>H >> HP doesn't care about VMS or Tru64, its core business are printer/inkF >> cartridges, followed by wintel to help its freinds at microsoft and7 >> intel. So HP doesn't car about losing VMS custoemrs.r >P? > From some recent business reports, it appears that OpenVMS is  > experiencing some growth.o    K I'd wager $100 that the sales you are hearing about don't come close to thebJ same number of VMS 'decommissions' that took place in the same timeframe -L either on a *new* customer basis or an existing customer adding gear vs. theG number of customers who have left VMS or the number of systems retired.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:01:42 -0500a* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday2 Message-ID: <ifCdnaasv8A_m1iiRVn-gw@metrocast.net>  3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagea2 news:j4c9sv4fugbh2e2ouakd55idqa85odmoum@4ax.com...H > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:05:28 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >< > >jlsue wrote:rJ > >> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:27:19 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy3 > >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:o > >> > >e) > >The crux of the matter as I see it is:nL > >a) in June 2001 Compaq said to its customers, 'Everything we/Digital toldH > >you about Alpha is wrong. It isn't a leading cpu, it isn't capable of havingF > >any life beyond the next couple years, it does not and can't have a 25-yearyK > >life span. My god, what were we thinking? Our cpu designers aren't up toa theyK > >challenge. Intel can do anything we do better - even if they don't stealm itL > >from us. That we don't do much if anything to market Alpha has nothing to doD > >with our decision. Oh, and BTW, were going to screw our partner -	 Samsung -  > >while we're at it.' >o > That's not what I heard.  I You've already demonstrated that your hearing is significantly impaired - H and that your ability to compensate for this by paying attention to what others have heard is nil.o  L John isn't even guilty of exaggeration.  Let's examine his assertions one by one:  J 1.  "Everything we/Digital told you about Alpha is wrong."  If you want toL contest this, come up with a significant counter-example.  Try starting withG the public statements in the 1999 'commitment to Alpha' Web letter fromdK senior VPs Bill Heil and Jesse Lipcon that was posted prominently by CompaqrL until a month *after* the Alphacide, and the October 11, 1999 alpha_ia64.pdfL white paper:  not coincidentally, both documents were released soon after NTI (both 32-bit and 64-bit) on Alpha got cancelled, to reassure the customero2 base that Alpha's long-term future was rock-solid.  H 2.  "It isn't a leading CPU."  See the fawning 'white paper' released inI October, 2001 by Compaq's High Performance Server Business Unit:  it saysWK exactly that, in comparing Alpha with Intel's offerings (primarily with x86tJ processors, though it attempts to confer their slim performance leadership@ over Alpha in low-end desktop and server products onto Itanic by
 association).e  G 3.  "It isn't capable of having any life beyond the next couple years."eC That was the specific excuse for axing EV8:  that Itanic would haveBG succeeded in offering a comparable alternative by the time (less than 3 K years in the future at the time of the Alphacide) that it would appear.  WeaE now know that all Itanic will be offering at that time is next year's+ slightly sped-up Madison.e  G 4.  "It does not and can't have a 25-year life span."  Well, not if alltI development is cut off by its 12th year - but that was the *only* obvious 	 obstacle.=  K 5.  "My god, what were we thinking?"  Not even hyperbole, when you contrastdK expositions like the 1999 alpha_ia64.pdf white paper and Heil/Lipcon letterl) with the statements on and after 6/25/01.o  K 6.  "Our cpu designers aren't up to the challenge."  Clearly:  they weren't F even smart enough to choose EPIC as a base.  Though Intel seemed eagerL enough to grab them to help shore up the at-that-time extremely questionableI future of Itanic (since we can now see what we only suspected then:  thatlL aside from the transplanted Alpha team's efforts, there's nothing really new on Itanic's roadmap at all).  L 7.  "Intel can do anything we do better."  Especially after we give them allL our resources to do it:  another part of the self-fulfilling prophecy.  ThatE October, 2001 hand-job from the Server group once again serves as the / substantiation for this and the previous point.   H 8.  "That we don't do much if anything to market Alpha has nothing to doE with our decision."  If you first accept the false premise that Alpha H development was too costly given its *existing* profit levels, then this point is a direct consequence.  L 9.  "Oh, and BTW, were going to screw our partner - Samsung - while we're at. it."  This point was admittedly only implicit.  )   What I heard was that the difference intK > performance was not worth the continued investment, in the opinion of thenL > management at CPQ.  That's their job to make those decisions.  While I mayJ > not always like the outcome, and while there may always be two (or more)J > other possible paths to take, the management chose to go another way.  IH > was just as peeved about the loss of Alpha, but I've realize that it's just) > another small bump in the road of life.h  I Right - I'm sure that's just how the American Indians feel about the manyeJ broken treaties that our government made with them.  And there's certainlyI no point in rehashing any of that *now*:  it's all in the past - move on.p   >  > > I > >b) Sun continues to invest in upcoming versions of Sparc both on theire owneK > >(perhaps one can hold up the EV7 model (post-June 2001 as an analog) andr inH > >partnership with Fujitsu. They are investing in building systems withH > >another chip design (AMD) not of their own creation for some of their  > >product line (at this point). > K > But Bill's statements seemed to say that Sun's investment in SPARC wasn'toF > intended to make it a performance leader (and it isn't a performance" > leader), but just keep it alive.  L No, that's not what any competent (and honest) reader of my statements would have brought away from them.  G Of *course* Sun was trying to make its SPARC architecture a performancegG leader:  it simply failed in the attempt.  And it has been aggressively@E trying - witness its active research into OoO, SMT, asynchronous chipd components, and the like.e  D Now it's taking steps to rectify the situation - by winding down theB disappointing implementation and concentrating on an existing more< successful one (SPARC64) plus a promising new one (Niagara).  )   Certainly folks who really wanted SPARC J > (and Sun) to shine could complain just as vehemently that Sun made a bad@ > decision not to push SPARC to the limits and make it a leader.  I For someone so quick to criticize JF for supposedly suggesting motivationgJ without having the slightest clue about what *actually* went on inside theJ company, you're awfully quick to do so yourself.  Exactly what evidence doK you have that Sun made any decision not to push SPARC's performance as hardc as it could?   >y > > D > >c) What Sun has not said is that they are killing Sparc. They are spendingJ > >money on three parallel tracks ( Sparc/Sun, Sparc/Sun/Fujitsu, AMD/Sun) andeB > >seeing which way their customers and the technology steer them. > L > But judging from this discussion, it appears that they have not pursued anA > investment strategy that would make SPARC a performance leader.e  I Your judgement is, as usual, incompetent.  Please point to any portion of.J this discussion that suggests *any* investment strategy that Sun has takenL in its support of SPARC (other than the recent one to concentrate on exactlyG those SPARC variants that *do* promise better performance), let alone agE strategy that *consciously* failed to place a premium on performance.t     Opting2 > instead to just make it "good enough" to get by.  K Yet another imputation of motivation by someone utterly unqualified to makecI it.  The fact that Sun's current SPARC *does* happen to be good enough to.9 get by hardly proves that this is all Sun was aiming for.i     And apparently that@L > strategy is considered valid by some, so I'm just trying to understand the2 > logic that allows Sun's strategy, but not CPQ's.  F If you're really trying to understand, you're clearly incompetent.  IfL you're not actually having such difficulty understanding, you're a liar (and a shill as well).r   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:45:56 -0500e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday) Message-ID: <3FC51103.520D9141@istop.com>t   jlsue wrote:C > That's not what I heard.  What I heard was that the difference inmK > performance was not worth the continued investment, in the opinion of the, > management at CPQ.    J I heard that IA64 was expected to shortly overtake Alpha so it was best toL move to IA64. This in the face of all those presentations by Digits that hadA shown curves where IA64 would never catch up with Alpha. In thosefJ presentations, it was admitted that IA64 would narrow the huge gap between Merced and Alpha.s  L The "narrowing of the gap" was prior to June 25 2001, at a time where Compaq9 had made serious (or so we thought) commitments to Alpha.e    K > But Bill's statements seemed to say that Sun's investment in SPARC wasn'tFF > intended to make it a performance leader (and it isn't a performance$ > leader), but just keep it alive.    M But isn't that Sparc's history ? Sun has never been "the" performance leader,,K it just had great numbers at a great price with serious marketing and clear  wish to grow its customer base.c  N When an ISV seens a vendor who is motivated to grow its customer base, the ISVA is automatically motivated to port his software to that platform.l  M When an ISV sees a vendor who doesn't intend to grow a platform, but insteadsiL wants to control its demise over at least 5 years, then ISV has 0 motivation: to port to that platform which has 0 growth opportunities.  L Sun is the formet paragraph, HP-VMS is the later paragraph. Sun may not haveK the best CPU in town, but it has the best combination of performance, priceoS and more importantly, software availability and image of being the leader for Unix.a  K When big-blue-conservative banks who didn't have a clue about TCPIP or Unix.K got a truckload of bricks hitting their heads about the necessity to have aaL presence on the internet, who did they go with in this unchartered territoryF (for them) ? They went with Sun which was the leader for the internet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:57:05 -0500g* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday) Message-ID: <3FC5139F.A942EC88@istop.com>t   jlsue wrote:@ > CPQ did not yank anything out from under anyone in their AlphaI > announcement.  Nobody who invested in Alpha before the announcement hasoI > lost anything since.  In fact, they've still got a long future with thet
 > platform.  c    N Think again. The Government of Qubec had just signed a couple months before aL MAJOR contract to port all their mainframe stuff to Tru64 Unix on Alphas.  II don't know the specifics, but if I had been in their shoes, on June 25, ICG would have sued Compaq to force them to not only take the equipment andoC software back for a full refund, but also pay the costs of softwarebM development that had already been undertaken. Especially by September when itt+ had been made official that Tru64 was dead.o  > >The death of the long-term future of Alpha does not magically* > cause the existing systems to go *poof*.  M Consider customers who had just begun projects to convert TO Alpha. Not thosee long standing customers.    J > doomsday announcement.  And these customers' businesses will continue toF > have significant room for growth in the medium-term future for those > workloads.  L Out of cusiosity, are the newly announced *systems* the last *systems* to beN developped, or does HP intend to produce one more batch of new boxes once EV7x becomes available ?u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:45:31 -0500n* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday2 Message-ID: <_ZKdnWvwpOx7jViiRVn-jA@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:w03xb.53251$Fv8.1664@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > jlsue wrote:   ...g  E > > That's not what I heard.  What I heard was that the difference in>I > > performance was not worth the continued investment, in the opinion ofoE > > the management at CPQ.  That's their job to make those decisions.rG > > While I may not always like the outcome, and while there may always>G > > be two (or more) other possible paths to take, the management choseoI > > to go another way.  I was just as peeved about the loss of Alpha, butsG > > I've realize that it's just another small bump in the road of life.  >C >r > Perhaps this is the case...    You're far too kind:  it's not.y  1 but that situation arose solely due to managementa4 > imposed delays in getting EV7 pushed out the door.  C Incorrect.  Even with the delays it had incurred at the time of the<I Alphacide, EV68 remained a leadership small-server product and at least aEJ respectable large-server product, EV7 promised to retain such small-serverD leadership and dramatically improve large-server leadership, and EV8F promised another dramatic across-the-board leadership increase shortlyI thereafter.  Hell, even after the additional delays *after* the Alphacide F EV7 was a leadership product at introduction and remains so today:  itJ matched the then-new McKinley in single-CPU commercial performance, I just= noted elsewhere that even today it leads the fastest, newest,nL next-process-generation (Madison) Itanic products in large-system 2-tier SAPH SD performance, and since that benchmark has a strong database componentI there's reason to suspect that it would lead them as well in large-system.K TPC-C performance - if HP were willing to allow that comparison to be made.o  L EV7 may have a 1998-era heart, but it has 2006-era system muscles.  At leastJ that's the earliest that Itanic will get anything similar to them - and itH wouldn't have them even then without the donation of the Alpha team that Compaq so generously gave them.4    Had Compaq managment notnJ > slowed down on EV7 prior to June 2001, EV7 would have been in the marketK > long befor it eventually arrived, and would have been at the leading edge  of > performance.  K While it's clear that EV7 could have been easily released earlier than lastrL January, you may be over-stating exactly how much earlier.  For example, theK initially-scheduled release date of December, 2000 was almost certainly too  aggressive.   I My own guess is that EV7 could have been released in very early 2002, had K Compaq wished to do so (say, if Pfeiffer had remained in charge).  FollowedoJ by EV8 in mid-2003:  its December, 2001 initial release date was even more aggressive than EV7's.  J Nonetheless, as noted above EV7 was still a leadership product even with a January, 2003 introduction.s   > Ditto for EV79  H EV79 didn't exist before the Alphacide:  it was created to try to sootheG customers who had just lost the prospect of EV8 in the same time-frame.e  
 > and EV8.  K As noted above, even with a 2004 introduction date EV8 would have enjoyed aQG very *significant* performance lead over its server competition even ino; small systems (though Opteron would have offered attractive3J price/performance in that area).  And in large systems, it would have beenK completely unassailable.  It would have made next year's Madison II a joke.]  (  Recall that we aren't talking about theJ > 2003-4 IA-64 vs. a 2003-4 Alpha, we're actually talking about the 2003-4J > Alpha being delivered in 2000-1 vs the 2003-4 IA-64 - basically a 2-year; > lead on performance had there been management commitment.v  I As I noted above,  1) I suspect that EV7 and EV8 could have been releasedwI only about a year earlier without the 1999 - 2001 Capellas-era delays andtG 2) even *with* those delays they would still have been very competitiveh6 products with, respectively, 2003 and 2004 ship dates.  F But being a year earlier would certainly have been better.  If EV7 hadD appeared before McKinley, it would have made McKinley even more of aK non-event than it actually was.  Ditto if EV8 had appeared at the same time  as the current Madison..   > K > That they didn't ,  based on Marcello's statements that Alpha funding wasg aoJ > paltry $150MM annually, shows that IA64 was on the management discussionK > table at Compaq years before 2001 despite all the engineering evidence ofm8 > Alpha superiority in its various upcoming superiority.  L Well, yuh.  The evidence trail stretches all the way back to the decision to: scrap NT (especially, 64-bit NT) on Alpha in August, 1999.  G But even just $150 million was sufficient for the Alpha team to perform K wonders.  Quality counts for a great deal more than quantity in such areas,iC and they had quality in spades.  I tend to doubt that major funding-D increases would have had all that much impact (perhaps shortened theE schedule by a few months) - but the disruptions that occurred insteadr certainly did.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:04:36 -0500s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday) Message-ID: <3FC5236E.46738A19@istop.com>-   Bill Todd wrote:M > While it's clear that EV7 could have been easily released earlier than last:N > January, you may be over-stating exactly how much earlier.  For example, theM > initially-scheduled release date of December, 2000 was almost certainly tooe
 > aggressive.t > K > My own guess is that EV7 could have been released in very early 2002, had. > Compaq wished to do so o  K Lets not forget that on June 25 2001, a whole bunch of Alpha engineers wereoI donated as slaves to Intel. I doubt that the EV7 team stayed intact aftereK that. If you know you'll be losing your job soon, you accept any good offer' that come your way.   K Remember that IA64 had the reputation of being years late and very slow. BynJ making Alpha even more late than IA64, it reduced the image of IA64 alwaysL being late. And by killing EV79, HP ensures that IA64 overtakes Alpha soonerD rather than later, because the longer it takes for IA64 with all theL development money it gets to overtake Alpha (with no development money), the$ more egg Carly will get on her face.  N HP can't control delays and performance of Power, AMD'd 64 bit 8086 and Sparc.L But it can control Alpha and PaRisc. So, HP artificially slows down Alpha soL that it will (hopefully sooner rather than later) be able to claim that IA64! is faster that at least one chip.i  N Remember that EV7 was started under Digital. Remember that the official launch0 of Widlfires had also been delayed under Compaq.  L And lets not forget that Palmer had announced Tru64 would be ported to IA64,2 but not VMS. That is before Compaq bought Digital.  O So the demise of Alpha may in fact had been begun before Compaq bought Digital.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 21:29:13 GMTM( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation SoftwareuA Message-ID: <JW8xb.12868$P%1.11419942@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>1  I > >Anyone that is running big iron with VMS care to comment?  Is ODS diskcK > >fragmentation really a non-issue?  I really find that hard to believe...p  H Ahh, you want the big iron people to weigh in.  :)  Those people perhapsH attempting to use 16-32 CPUs per VMS instance for example. :)  There yesE fragmentation can hurt.  Why?  Anything that may use a spinlock or be ? funneled through a single CPU can be a concern.  So I rephrase,iE fragmentation itself isn't such a big problem, but split I/Os can be.N  L Also I'll agree with some things already said.  Fragmented free space can beA an issue.  Already mentioned are directory file expansion issues.uI Creation/Expansion of dumpfiles, pagefiles, swapfiles, INDEXF.SYS and the 9 like that must have only one file header can be impacted.r  D Also I'll point out that a RAID controller breaking a large I/O intoL multiple I/Os across multiple spindles can be a performance *enhancement* ifK disk throughput is an issue.  IMHO a large single VMS I/O is more likely to K be scattered to multiple spindles, than the two or more split I/O VMS mighteK issue in the case of fragmentation.  In the latter case both I/Os could maptI to the same spindle making one wait for the other, rather than process ina	 parallel.t  F I've been to sites where fragmentation was identified as a performanceF issue.  The poor system manager spent the whole weekend backing-up andK restoring the disks.  On Monday morning performance was the same because offK one of two factors. 1) While the customer's disk were badly fragmented, theAK fragmented files weren't being used. Solution: Based the likely performanceaH impact of defragmentation on split I/Os.  2) While split I/Os might haveI been identified, but the files that are fragmented are created on the flyeK and extended on the fly and an hour into Monday morning then are fragmentedd all over again!c  G So yes, I believe split I/Os impact systems, if not from the additionalw7 seeks, then from CPU load, particularly on SMP systems.@  B Oh and I believe the best defragmentation software is software andL configuration issues that avoid fragmentation to begin with.  Allocate filesD at the size their likely to grow to.  If files on a scratch disk areG typically 180 blocks or less, a disk cluster 180 will avoid much of then4 fragmentation at the expense of *wasted* disk space.  K BTW an interesting use of purposefully fragmented file would be to use RAID J to create a small disk volume and a large disk volume.  Mount/Bind the twoI together.  Shadow the small volume to a DECram disk in memory. Then use a F .FDL to purposefully place the index areas of an RMS file on the smallJ volume and the data area on the large volume. Fragmented file? yes.  Split0 I/Os? no.  Indexes guaranteed in memory? yes. :)   Todd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:23:10 -0500r$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Softwareo. Message-ID: <3FC543EE.1A574241@eps.zk.dec.com>   konabear wrote:e  G > fragmentation can hurt.  Why?  Anything that may use a spinlock or be A > funneled through a single CPU can be a concern.  So I rephrase, G > fragmentation itself isn't such a big problem, but split I/Os can be.  > N > Also I'll agree with some things already said.  Fragmented free space can beC > an issue.  Already mentioned are directory file expansion issues.   M Serendipity perhaps... This morning I happened to answer an internal questioncK in similar space. That question was about 'defragmenting EVA vritual disk'.d@ (DTL: In the the good old VMSnotes, volume 12, topic 7000+  :-).! It echos much of what Todd wrote.h  O [Todd: Yes I have also played with multivolume indexed files. The beauty of thel scheme is thatN you can just have that relatively small fast disk sit there as a second volume to a large disk,M knowing that the xqp by default will only take space from that large disk fore 'load balancing'. P Of course if you allow to extend a file automatically it will extent on the disk that holds the last header]n  ' Anyway here is what I answerred there;.       D Defragmentation is a virtual block to logical block mapping process,C for existing files and freespace. It is entirely independend of the C logical block to physical block mapping done by the controller/disko subsystems such as EVAs.  D Personally I prefer PREVENTIVE medicine such as file pre-allocation,C usage pattern based placement and large extentsizes over CORRECTIVE 1 defrag work. Just do it right in the first place!c  D I can sympathize with the question: If the EVA perform 'random' disk@ block mapping behind our back, then why bother sorting them out?C Well, if you saw benefits from defrag before EVA's you may see moreq@ (relative) benefits with EVA. With EVA's supposedly the seek andF transfer are very fast, aided and masked by the cache, and by avoidingE hot-disks. But the fact to go get the data, from QIO, through driver, A over the wire/fibre and back again costs cpu and elapsed time. By1C having defragged file you make sure you minimize 'split IOs', whereRD a single virtual IO needs to be broken up (by the XQP) into multipleD logical IOs to glue the fragments together. This will reduce context! switches, cpu time, elapsed time.b  D Defrag on the file systems is relevant for the mini stuff, a clusterD here, a cluster there. The EVA behind it all may slap an other layerE of fragmentation over that, but it is at the hundreds of blocks leveleC and it is truly behind your back away from the critical performancerC path (or so we hope). Small IOs (several file system clusters) havenD a good chance of entirely fitting in an EVA chunk. Large IOs (1Mb ?)C may benefit from the EVA being able to gather and scatter chunks inSD parallel to multiple disks. It has the power to deal with that. YourC primary CPU might not. (compare with our optional VMS disk stripingp
 software).       Does that help any?m	     Hein.l           >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 20:59:40 -0600r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>f) Subject: Re: VMS Defragmentation Softwarec' Message-ID: <3FC5689C.AADE1054@fsi.net>    Hein wrote:u >  > konabear wrote:u > I > > fragmentation can hurt.  Why?  Anything that may use a spinlock or becC > > funneled through a single CPU can be a concern.  So I rephrase,aI > > fragmentation itself isn't such a big problem, but split I/Os can be.  > >rP > > Also I'll agree with some things already said.  Fragmented free space can beE > > an issue.  Already mentioned are directory file expansion issues.s > O > Serendipity perhaps... This morning I happened to answer an internal question+M > in similar space. That question was about 'defragmenting EVA vritual disk'.bB > (DTL: In the the good old VMSnotes, volume 12, topic 7000+  :-).# > It echos much of what Todd wrote.  > Q > [Todd: Yes I have also played with multivolume indexed files. The beauty of theh > scheme is thatP > you can just have that relatively small fast disk sit there as a second volume > to a large disk,O > knowing that the xqp by default will only take space from that large disk for  > 'load balancing'. R > Of course if you allow to extend a file automatically it will extent on the disk > that holds the last header]   E Let me try this question, if for no other reason than to be something * besides the kiddies and their trollery....  C How goofy would this be: intentionally map an indexed file in three19 areas on three separate volumes of a shadowed volume-set?:  H That is: given DSA10 = RVN 1, DSA11 = RVN 2 and DSA12 = RVN 3, could youE intentionally build an indexed file with, for example, index areas on F volumes 1 and 2, and data area on volume 3? (Volume sizes are separate issue, of course.)   -- a David J. Dachtera, dba DJE Systems4 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/D   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:59:39 GMTl From: tutor@nospam.cfl.rr.com  Subject: vms to alphao8 Message-ID: <441bsvk4314u400unes1nnd9q2eisqpnhi@4ax.com>   where, other than hp/compaq E will i find a migration plan to move from vms to alpha - with speciale emphasis on cobol?   j1076366@yahoo.com    @ On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:10:20 +0100, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote:  ! >October stats for download were:s >e >English version: 332c >French version: 21  > 9 >As of yesterday, stats for November (.pdf and .doc) are:  >p >English October version: 26 >French October version: 66p >English November version: 1166t >French November version: 250  > ! >OpenVMS.org mirror not included.oJ >The www.didiermorandi.com/vms/ directory is open for browsing (archives). >dN >Please send stuff for the next one. Looks like it may be interesting to some.O >Focus of next letter is: "Obsolete VAX/VMS software and/or not ported to i64".e >o) >Thanks for helping the VAX/VMS Communityl >i >D. , >firstnamelastname a t n e r i m d o t n e t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:52:22 GMTh1 From: Marc Bissonnette <dragnet@internalysis.com>n! Subject: Re: Who is Alan Erskine?AA Message-ID: <Xns943F82F885DA7dragnetinternalysisc@207.35.177.134>o  , George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it> wrote in4 news:89f795d6ea7e49e3636c8464d713f256@mixmaster.it:   , > bearbehindau2001@hotmail.com (Bear) wrote: > E >>Is he the troll?  He's the one making all the comments about Mezei.w >>Yours, >> >>Bear.9   [snip]  J Sigh. Twits like this using anonymous remailers to spoof and harass other L people, whether on not it is justified - in their mind or in the real world I - only speed up the process that will eventually see anonymous remailers h completely nuked.o  I It's all a matter of time before these twits, through their abuse of the >K trust of the Usenet community, either piss off the wrong people, or simply tJ piss off enough people to achieve an end result of losing the ability for L IP traffic to enter major segments of the network at all, if they're coming  from an anonymailer.       -- e Marc BissonnetteB CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: http://www.internalysis.comF Something To Sell? Looking To Buy? http://www.whitewaterclassifieds.ca1 Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.coms   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:56:00 -0500a2 From: "James Anatidae" <parshallNOSPAM@citcom.net>! Subject: Re: Who is Alan Erskine? , Message-ID: <bq477u$9bd$1@news3.infoave.net>  / The above message as been forwarded to Spamcop.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:23:32 -0500 . From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com>) Subject: Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL + Message-ID: <bq2ql9$o4i$1@bob.news.rcn.net>s  % TECO was popular from pdp10 land too.r= Why not have perl, teco, dcl, gawk, lbl tools, and Lord knows = how much else? Telling someone what tools to use for analysisiB is like telling someone which tie to wear.  Let a thousand flowers bloom or some such thing...-  A If anyone happens not to like the style of someone else's choice, 1 gentlemen should be too polite to point this out.    Glenn Everhart   Bob Koehler wrote:[ > In article <3fc45d93$0$17092$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:: > S >>I find here and there more and more examples of VMS output processing written in tM >>PERL (see http://tinyurl.com/wlvo). We have DCL. What does PERL add to DCL?n >> >  > F >    PERL is popular from eunichs-land where the shells are so poor atD >    handling strings that the programmers think PERL is good at it. >    aJ >    That said, lots of things like CGI scripts tend to be written in PERLK >    and if you have some or you have a programmer who's used to PERL then gE >    you might want to use them instead of translating them to DCL orp= >    waiting for reality to sink into said programmer's head.s >    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 12:34:33 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a) Subject: Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCLe3 Message-ID: <9qTob+3raWvW@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  k In article <3FC4C73B.EB473F5B@eps.zko.dec.com>, Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> writes:c  = > Regular expressions, printf, sort and multi platform usage.   @    Oh no!  printf isn't a feature, it's a weakness.  And you canA    certainly access sort from DCL.  DCL is a little weak on multieC    platform support though, I've only seen it on VMS on VAX, Alpha,lC    and IA64, on RSX-11M(+) on PDP-11, on MS-DOS, Windows, Solaris, p#    HP-UX, ULTRIX, digital UNIX, ...   E    I know of no DCL implementation for Max OS X.  Maybe it just isn't 2    advertised well enough to come over my horizon.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 12:27:31 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s) Subject: Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCLy3 Message-ID: <jFKy00q22yvO@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  i In article <bq2dht$1t7d34$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:e5 > In article <2kK4xgScAN1k@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1@ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:\ >> In article <3fc45d93$0$17092$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:U >>> I find here and there more and more examples of VMS output processing written in eO >>> PERL (see http://tinyurl.com/wlvo). We have DCL. What does PERL add to DCL?  >>>  >> 2G >>    PERL is popular from eunichs-land where the shells are so poor atuE >>    handling strings that the programmers think PERL is good at it.g > K > The Unix shells weren't designed to handle strings, there are other tools>J > in the Unix toolkit for that.  DCL won't control my home heating system,/ > but I don't see that as a shortcoming of DCL.o  @    I don't see that as a shortcoming of DCL either.  I've had toC    manipulate strings often enough in ksh to know how (and to avoidrD    csh).  Basically:  you don't; you use awk, grep, sed, ... instead6    to do things with strings that DCL or PERL will do.  F    The observation that UNIX shells weren't designed to handle stringsF    simply observes one of many shortcomings in thier design.  The needA    to manipulate strings in the context of shells is real enough.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 12:47:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCLf3 Message-ID: <3EnkW+$emSC5@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  U In article <3FC4C3AE.5060303@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:r  H > Funny, this is the same hypocritical group that complains that office K > productivity software isn't 'sanctioned' unless it runs on VMS.  A major  J > double standard here... No doubt there is at least one person who wants F > to use VMS to control their X10 appliances and perhaps even control J > their home heating, and automatic spa warming for their daily 6pm after H > work soak and brew?  They just might argue and fight you on the issue K > that VMS should be able to do all that, and more, regardless of the fact c@ > that there are most likely cheaper and easier ways to do it...  J The predominent implementation uses Bliss, for which the compiler is free:  > 	http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3064/SDIR.HTML   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:36:54 -0700a+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>e) Subject: Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCL ' Message-ID: <3FC500D6.8020805@MMaz.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:  V >In article <3FC4C3AE.5060303@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: >i >  t >yH >>Funny, this is the same hypocritical group that complains that office K >>productivity software isn't 'sanctioned' unless it runs on VMS.  A major rJ >>double standard here... No doubt there is at least one person who wants F >>to use VMS to control their X10 appliances and perhaps even control J >>their home heating, and automatic spa warming for their daily 6pm after H >>work soak and brew?  They just might argue and fight you on the issue K >>that VMS should be able to do all that, and more, regardless of the fact e@ >>that there are most likely cheaper and easier ways to do it... >>     >> > K >The predominent implementation uses Bliss, for which the compiler is free:s >.? >	http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3064/SDIR.HTMLu >h >  s >eG Touche, but as part of the heating system, will that include a VAX 9000 
 to run it :-)    Barryc   -- d  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 11:44:12 -0800( From: finnjj@telefonica.net (Jerry Finn)) Subject: Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCLb= Message-ID: <31a78418.0311261144.2fe9f8f5@posting.google.com>e   > H > 1.  Useful scripts written in Perl may be ported from other platforms. > ? > 2.  When OpenVMS dies through lack of marketing by HP, I havei= > marketable experience with a commonly used langauge/script.r  = I started using perl when I was porting some VMS applicationst< to Unix. I used the same scripts on Windows and was grateful! I didn't have to write it twice.    = I don't think a VMS version was around then but I'd certainlyg> use it for scripts I had to repeat across platforms. Otherwise stick with DCL.   
 Jerry Finn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:03:25 -0600t6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>) Subject: Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCLsT Message-ID: <craigberry-8DD217.15032526112003@dsl081-159-101.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net>  / In article <3FC4D19C.3B0557DF@eps.zko.dec.com>, ;  Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote:a  O > It would not surprise me if Didier topic was in part caused / triggered by mes2 > posting a perl script to post-process DFU ouput.O > That script was posted in a cluster size topic yesterday, I'll attach it herey > again.  F Nice, but why not just open a pipe to DFU and read the results on the 3 fly.  I suggest the following patch to your script:   5 --- cluster_size.pl;-0       Wed Nov 26 14:26:48 2003t0 +++ cluster_size.pl     Wed Nov 26 14:41:30 2003 @@ -1,11 +1,15 @@t: -# This perl script will process an DFU search output fileB -# to analyze the effect of cluster size on wasted allocaed space.F -# use a PIPE or: defi/user sys$output dfu.tmp, and DFU SEARCH disk00:9 +# This perl script will execute a DFU search and analyze 8 +# the effect of cluster size on wasted allocated space.  #6  # system$disk00:[directory]filename,ext;vers      1/9  #Primary headers : 6168,  #Files found : 6168, Size : 2918870/3293460
 -while (<>) {l +sI +die "Usage: perl cluster_size.pl <device_name>" unless defined $ARGV[0];t +a, +open(DFUPIPE, "MCR DFU SEARCH $ARGV[0] |"); +m +while (<DFUPIPE>) {    if (/(\d+)\/(\d+)$/) {h
      $end=$1;n
      $all=$2;d @@ -20,6 +24,8 @@m(    $headers = $1 if (/headers : (\d+)/);    }   +close DFUPIPE;  + .  #foreach $end (sort {$a <=> $b} keys %file) {+  #  printf ("%6d %d\n", $file{$end}, $end);t  #  }i [END of patch]    N > And also like someone else wrote, if I had to script a nice backup job, or aJ > job  with some submits and queue management I may well go for DCL again.  G That's a reasonable choice.  On the other hand, there are already Perl eF extensions that provide access to $getjpi, $getsyi, $getspi, $getqui, H and several others, so there are good examples to follow if you want to D create extensions that provides access to $sndjbc or the backup API.  H > btw... I know how to use 'associative arrays' in dcl... but the 'keys'? > operator in perl is mightly powerfull and not present in dcl.t  A Not to mention Perl has tied hashes, anonymous hashes, arrays of yG hashes, hashes of arrays, hashes of references to other hashes, hashes e$ of subroutine references, and so on.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:03:49 -0500s$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>) Subject: Re: Why PERL on VMS? We have DCLa- Message-ID: <3FC53F65.C7C4FA5@eps.zk.dec.com>M   "Craig A. Berry" wrote:c  = >  Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote:u >nQ > > That script was posted in a cluster size topic yesterday, I'll attach it heret
 > > again. >mG > Nice, but why not just open a pipe to DFU and read the results on thee5 > fly.  I suggest the following patch to your script:h  0 >   +open(DFUPIPE, "MCR DFU SEARCH $ARGV[0] |");  * Oh yeah, that's what I do in general.  Or:; $dev = shift @ARGV || die "Must provide a device name"; ...a  P But... I'm an incorrigable performance guy, optimizing stuff even if it takes me longer :-).rQ [Yes, I take an empty cartons back out of the thrash at home to fold it an put itb back, and stack otheraQ folks empty coffe cups at times if I can do that while throwing away my cup. :-).s  I I knew I was going to give my script several go arounds while developing. Q So I captured DFU search output once, removed the middle 1500 lines from 1681 andd tested< with that. That's why I needed it to come in from sys$input.O Plus, for me it was a throw-away script anyway. Because that's what you do withr	 perl :-).n  0 >  #foreach $end (sort {$a <=> $b} keys %file) {- >  #  printf ("%6d %d\n", $file{$end}, $end);l >  #  })  S That little bit of commented perl I left in that is IMHO actually a neat display ofe the power of perl.M It prints the a list of the number for files for a given size sorted by size.pJ I used it in debug phase to make sure I 'saw' all files & sizes correctly.( How many lines of DCL would that be huh?    H > That's a reasonable choice.  On the other hand, there are already PerlG > extensions that provide access to $getjpi, $getsyi, $getspi, $getqui,   F Right, and that's powerful. Yet, for me that's  where I draw the line.C As I move from system to system I can't 'waste' time setting up thesA perfect environment. I try to rely on stuff that is always there.nH So for doign indexed file stuff beyond sequential read (say playing withG mail.mai, sysuaf.dat) I'd sooner grab DCL then figure out how to enrichmN perl with the rms index file support library. Crazy perhaps, but that's how it
 works for me.aP I programmed tools in MACRO for the longest time also, just because of universalL availability on VMS. By now C became available on pretty much every VMS box.   Cheers,  Hein.s   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Nov 2003 15:07:36 -0800# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)e Subject: Re: Wildcard searchingn= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0311261507.16e143ee@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3FC3FC39.2FCEF1C9@istop.com>...t" > I have a buffer containing text. > J > I'd like to provide a function to do wildcard searches which returns the > position inside that buffer. > J > STR$MATCH_WILD has the widlcard support, but returns essentially true orU > false, and I would have to add * to both the start and end of the pattern to match.  > P > (eg, if looking for choco*te , I would have to give STR$MATCH_WILD  *choco*ta*P > in which case, it would return the first byte since the whole 2000 line buffer > would match. > 0 > Is there a magical routine that handles this ? >  > (programming language is C).
 Will this do?i? STR$FIND_FIRST_SUBSTRING takes as input a string to be searched < and an unspecified number of substrings for which to search.@ It searches the specified string and returns the position of the/ substring that is found earliest in the string.e Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:38:04 GMTj# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o> Subject: Re: X Views: Plotting Capacity Date by David W. BynonF Message-ID: <wi7xb.5253$p8C.3207@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Denny wrote:F > In the December 1990 issue of VAX Professional, page 31, there is an8 > article by DWBynon, "X Views: Plotting Capacity Data". > D > The article references a set of programs (CAPACITY.DOC is the selfE > extracting kit) to be found on the ARIS/BB (right!). These programsa@ > accept input from the MONITOR program, and produce graphs in a > dECWindow. > H > Does anyone know what became of the ARIS/BB stuff?  Is it available on > any web site?n >tH > I looked for VAX Professional, sold to Cardinal Publishing. Cardinal'sC > phone has been disconnected. Bynon doesn't get any useful hits ine	 > Google.e >m4 > I would very much like to see his program listing.    L Try google for Carl B. Marbach - he was the publisher before Cardinal bought it from him/his company.  I May also want to try www.kgb.com (no, not *that* KGB) and ask Kevin if he " knows where this stuff may reside.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:21:24 +0100 (CET) ) From: George Orwell <nobody@mixmaster.it>eA Subject: Re: [INFO]Frog introduces his big dick in Mezei's bottomh; Message-ID: <b15ff1fedffbe89554d8118ccb39dae0@mixmaster.it>p  - JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> trolled:f  6 >Frog-Admin cross posted to many unrelated newsgroups: >-B >> 1) The basic principle of remailers is to remove *ALL* incoming >> identification markss$ >> to replace them by the remailer's >oI >How come your servive, as well as Dizum allow the sender to specific anyc >"from:" then ?   N Because they can run their service however they see fit, Mr. Nazi.  What's theL matter, you want to be able to troll like you have for the past 10 years butP don't want anybody else to?  Want the whole territory all to yourself, TROLLBOY, with no competition???  / >> MY SERVICE IS NOT FOR STALKING or HARASSING,t@ >> IT IS OPEN FOR LEGITIMATE PURPOSES AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH ONLY >kM >Yeah. If that were the case, you would have taken steps a LONG LONG time ago I >to prevent misused of your service. As it stands, you foster and protect I >trolls who misuse your service. You are an accomplice to their crime andeK >should be criminally held responsible for aiding those criminals who steal H >indetities, harass, slander and cause harm to many innocent bystanders.  L And you should be held criminally responsible for your abuse of usenet for a= decade, as well as the Canadian ISP who allowed you to do so.h  K >> There are few things more REPULSIVE than a free service being abused fora >> means it was not  >>intended for.t >e >nK >Which is why you and dizum should be shut down permanently because you arei" >UNWILLING to prevent that misuse.  M Same reason sympatico.ca, bellglobal.ca, and videotron.ca should be shut down = permanently because they are UNWILLING to prevent your abuse.p  N >> Within 24 hours, all posts/mails emerging from Frog will bear a disclaimer:D >> "This free remailing service is not meant for stalking/harassment? >>  If you find the content of this post to be grossly abusive,dL >>   it *probably* originated from a client of Stephen K. Gielda (COTSE) for >>   $5.95 a month >>  see http://....e >  >rM >This is slander. One more reason to shut you down. If you really cared abouteJ >your service not being abused, you would include a disclaimer in the textN >stating that this is sent thourgh your anonymous remailer, to send complaintsH >of abuse to YOU, and more imprtantly, you would NEVER allow a sender toH >specify a FROM: address and would always use a standard userid. I mightK >tolerate that the sender could specify a personal name, but never an emailE	 >address.  >eM >And also, all your posts should include the X-No-Archive: Yes in the body ofn
 >the message.e  L What's the matter TROLLBOY, afraid that the truth about you will be archivedH forever???  You should have thought about that before you spent a DECADE> trolling usenet, just recently under the following identities:  $ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>n nobody <nobody@nobody.com>& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>o Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>e" Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>r' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>n" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>A' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>e( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>t' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>n Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>t! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>3  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>u Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>e$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>a! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>t  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>s% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>d$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>s& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>b% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>n& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>e' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>i% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>l$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>a" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>t& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>t) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>h' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>t" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>m Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>g   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.657 ************************d. > Compaq wished to do so o  K Lets not forget that on June 25 2001, a whole bunch of Alpha engineers wereoI donated as slaves to I