1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 01 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 544       Contents: Re: affordable VMS Re: affordable VMS Re: Alpha Port Re: Alpha Port Re: AMD64 sales figures 2 Description of fork(), was: Re: rsync for OpenVMS?2 Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create?@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." 7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." 7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." % Re: ITRC Download site - some answers % Re: ITRC Download site - some answers % Re: ITRC Download site - some answers % Re: ITRC Download site - some answers  Re: New round of cuts at HP  Re: Nice touch, AMD % Re: OT: Talk about bad luck (Halifax) % Re: OT: Talk about bad luck (Halifax)  Re: PCI Device Access ? Re: Postal Lottery: Turn $6 into $60,000 in 90 days, GUARANTEED D Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same program Re: rsync for OpenVMS? Re: rsync for OpenVMS? Re: rsync for OpenVMS? Re: rsync for OpenVMS? Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: symbiont housekeeping ?  Re: symbiont housekeeping ? ; Thanks for the informative responses Re: Security Breakdown ? Re: Thanks for the informative responses Re: Security Breakdown % Re: VMS graphics monitors for dummies % Re: VMS graphics monitors for dummies 2 Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)2 RE: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)2 Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)2 Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands) Re: [5] Counter Googling :-( RE: [5] Counter Googling :-(  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:32:05 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: affordable VMS + Message-ID: <ble3e6$lcm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   ^ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:3F7A2607.39D12B9B@fsi.net...   > Well, fine for DSPP members. > $ > Now: what can we do for end-users? > E > (You remember end users, right? ...the people who make DSPP members  > possible?)  E It's a bit premature to talk about end users, while a non-developer's 0 release of VMS on Itanium is still some way off.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 07:42:06 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: affordable VMS 3 Message-ID: <$GeueZsLeNrf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0309301152.2ca22f4c@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:   / > From the latest issue of the DSPP newsletter:  > H > "New and Improved Equipment Program Benefits for DSPP Members in North	 > America  > @ > The DSPP Equipment Program is pleased to announce exciting new& > discounts and offerings for members: > ... H >   o  OpenVMS I64 Itanium2 server bundle- Special pricing at under $5K"  C    Now that sounds official.  Good to hear, but is it a developer's     bundle, or just the server?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:28:09 -0400' From: "Mike Rieker" <mrieker@o3one.org>  Subject: Re: Alpha Port / Message-ID: <vnlp3sa8vska22@corp.supernews.com>   J Actually, I didn't know about them.  I suppose they're worth looking at toL build more of a Posix or classic Unix-like runtime environment.  I guess I'dK be porting a porting package.  My OS is similar enough to VMS that it might E not be that hard to do.  I could always add any missing stuff I need.   E Can I legally use that library for anything, even on a non-VMS/non-HP 6 system?  The terms presented seem to imply that I can.   Mike    2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0D877E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   Mike,   G Just curious, but are you using any of the GNV features in your porting  effort?   & http://h71000.www7.hp.com/portability/  ; http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/porting.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom + (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:51:34 GMT ) From: "P.Lj" <plj@NOSPbyron.ext.telia.se>  Subject: Re: Alpha Port @ Message-ID: <Xns9407AB82141DFplj69byronextteliase@195.67.237.53>  * "Mike Rieker" <mrieker@o3one.org> wrote in( news:vnj5m1k2hbvu1b@corp.supernews.com:   ( > It works!  OZONE is officially 64-bit!, > www.o3one.org and www.o3one.org/alpha.html > H > Haven't beat on it yet and I'm sure there's plenty of little things toH > fix, but it loads and runs the shell and I can type in commands.  Next= > I have to check out the utilities and get GCC, etc. ported.  >  > Mike >  >     * Ugly colour, it hurts my eyes, it's an OS!   /P.Lj    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:05:33 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures0 Message-ID: <bleqgb$evj$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 1 >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]  " >>Sent: September 29, 2003 4:55 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >> >>Main, Kerry wrote: >> >>>>-----Original Message-----, >>>>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 2 >>>>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]% >>>>Sent: September 26, 2003 12:11 PM  >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >>>> >>>>Greg Cagle wrote:  >>>> >>>>- >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> H >>>>>>IA64 high quality, tell that to the customers who Intel suggested @ >>>>>>should clock their 1000 GHz units at 800 MHz to avoid data >>>>> 
 >>>>integrity  >>>> >>>> >>>>>>problems.  >>>>>  >>>>> ) >>>>>1) Do you have a reference for this?  >>>>> > >>>>>2) If I were you I wouldn't be bringing up data integrity >>>>>  problems. >>>>' >>>>If I were you I wouldn't have asked  >>>>3 >>>>http://www.computerweekly.com/Article121736.htm  >>>> >>>>Regards  >>>>Andrew Harrison  >>>> >>>> >>>  >>> 2 >>>And if I were you, I'd remember the old phrase: >>>"those in glass houses ..." >>>  >>@ >>Kerry since you now work for HP ask one of your new collegues @ >>about the HP K series, or the memory controllers in the N4000. >>H >>You will find that the glass house you are in has just enlarged a bit. >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >> >  > 	 > Andrew,  > J > Hey, I'm not saying all HP HW is perfect. That's not the issue, so don't > change the subject.  > D > The references on the Sun site that I provided illustrate *recent*H > examples of Sun HW causing data corruption, so you highlighting issuesG > in IA64 is a great example of those living in glass houses should not  > throw stones.  > E I am a little supprised you pitched in at all, if the article doesn't = mention a problem with HP/itanium it refers to a problem with  IBM/Itanium.  C Is your sharp reaction because the problem did affect HP systems as  well ?   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 07:53:09 -0500 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley); Subject: Description of fork(), was: Re: rsync for OpenVMS? 3 Message-ID: <UPQ5FSiYFgdh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <ble1jl$4pb$5@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:  >  > What does fork() actually do?  >   J Information on what fork() actually does is available online. For example, see the following:  ; http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xsh/fork.html   H As you can see, VMS has no equivalent function, so porting Unix programsI that are structured to rely on this behaviour is a _real_ pain and can be  a major exercise.   M That's why people like myself keep commenting on this issue and other related  ones.    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 02:19:53 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ; Subject: Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? 3 Message-ID: <DzhdaDa8z6Nw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3F7A288E.E7067C5C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > jlsue wrote:	 >> [snip] 3 >> One of the biggest benefits of EVA, imho, [snip]  >>  > >> The impact depends on each specific environment, of course. > I > I still haven't even seen an EVA (probably won't unless I can go to the H > bootcamp in November), I've only read about them here in the group and > on-line at hp's website. > H > So far, it all seems to add a lot of questionably necessary complexityG > for very little improvement. Seems to me one can do better laying out J > RAIDsets on HSxes one's self and avoid some of the pitfalls mentioned byC > yourself and other posters. Add to that the fact the HSxes can be E > commanded in batch jobs via HSDSA or HSZPAD$SCSITERM and it seems a  > negative gain. > I > Are there any advantages to EVA that can't be realized by judicious use   > of the preceding technologies? >   B 	Advantages?  Yes.  You could carve a 36 GByte RAID1 out of an EVA9 	that easily pumps 4000 Random IO.  You would have to get ? 	crazily creative with HSx disk kit to even come close to that. = 	Who needs that kind of Random IO?  Why not load up a RamDisk < 	and pin it to Ram?   There are very hot databases out there3 	and maybe you have small hot databases.  An EVA is C 	a VERY good fit.  Bandwidth - the HSG80 doesn't have 200 MByte/sec  	ports.   C 	Secondly and arguably as important, it is a very simple interface. > 	You are carving out a pool.  Very much a set it and forget it@ 	technology.  The discussion preceding this is just fleshing out< 	of best practices.  As jlsue points out multiple pools mean? 	multiple spares.  Conversely, a 168 disk pool not only doesn't @ 	"feel" right it really is a matter of diminishing returns.  YouD 	certainly won't need 168 disks for the bandwidth (15K Seagate fibreF 	disks do 49-75 MByte/sec sustained it would take about 5 disks worst E 	case for a single LUN to saturate a 200 MByte/sec port).  Likewise,  H 	even though you could easily push 20000++ Random IO through 168 disks, H 	one wonders why or how you would have a LUN/DB that is *THAT* hot that F 	hasn't been a candidate for partitioning or shifting of globals, etc.  6 	So I disagree with the single pool / high performance> 	best practice below if for no other reason than that LUN that= 	is hammering the EVA hard enough to warrant a single pool of 9 	168 disks is most likely mythical (maybe single pool for > 	high performance if you have < 100 drives? and at that do you< 	REALLY think you have or will have a LUN that hot to hammer* 	100 drives to saturation with Random IO?)   	Best practices states this:    ] ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/whitepapers/EVA_Best_Practices_White_Paper.pdf   : Cost, Performance, and Availability Number of disk groups    Although the EVAH offers numerous levels of data protection and redundancy, a catastrophicK failure can result in loss of a disk group. This is extremely unlikely, and L requires multiple simultaneous disk failures of disks in the same redundancyI set. In spite of this very low probability, installations that demand the O ultimate in data availability might consider creating two separate disk groups. J Although two groups will result in a slightly higher cost of ownership andL potentially lower performance, the increase in availability may be the rightO decision for a very high availability application. In order for two disk groups I to prevent data loss, each disk group must contain sufficient independent N information to reconstruct the entire data set. A practical example of this isO a database that contains both data and log files. In this instance, placing the M data files in one group and duplexing the log files (a typical feature of the O database) to both the data file group and another group ensures that loss of an M entire disk group will not prevent recovering the data. If there are multiple N databases, then alternating this placement will ensure an even distribution of@ data for both capacity and performance balancing. As an example:  7 Disk Group 1: Database 1, DB 1 log files, DB2 log files 7 Disk Group 2: Database 2, DB 2 log files, DB1 log files   O In the above configuration, each database is protected, since failure of either H disk group will leave sufficient information to recover both databases1.K Additionally, the capacity is probably split fairly equally between the two ? groups, so performance should be relatively well balanced also.   H Availability best practice: For critical database applications, consider4 placing data and log files in separate disk groups.    Performance    As might be J expected, performance and price are generally incompatible. The underlyingN virtualization technology of the EVA goes a long way towards masking this, butN there are still cases where higher performance comes at the cost of both priceG and availability. The following sections explore how to obtain the best K performance, albeit sometimes at the expense of both cost and availability.    Disk count    A Since most random access applications are limited by the physical G disk speeds, increasing the numbers of disks under a LUN will translate O directly to an increased performance potential. With the high transfer rates of N modern disk drives, maximum sequential performance can be attained with only aM few disks. Having additional disks does allow multiple sequential streams, or F even intermixed random and sequential streams to co-exist with minimalJ interaction, so for most applications, there will be a direct relationship6 between the number of disk drives and I/O performance.  M Performance best practice: Fill the EVA with as many disk drives as possible.    Number of disk groups   9 For typical workloads, an increased number of disk drives K under a LUN imply increased performance potential, and since a LUN can only L exist within a single disk group, it follows that having a single disk groupK maximizes the performance capability. Similarly, the larger numbers of disk G drives associated with a single disk group imply less interaction among M multiple I/O streams, as well as the ability to .share disk resources. as the ( I/O load shifts from one LUN to another.  3 Performance best practice: Use a single disk group.     K 1 A loss of the disk group with the data files will require a reload from a G backup, but in both cases, the database will be consistent and current.    ---   ; 	Note there is a performance best practice and availability  	best practice with a warning ? 	against the "extremely rare" loss of a disk group.  Given that = 	in reality you/me aren't most likely to push 168 disks maybe = 	a middle-of-the-road best practice might be to split it into 4 	4 disk groups of ~40 each making sure log files are6 	on separate disk groups.  So if there is an extremely; 	rare blow-out of a disk group, you are restoring 40 drives 2 	worth of material.  (Or concede 2 groups of 80 orB 	so drives each why bother with 4?)  I'm sure many will have their 	own take on this subject.   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 07:21:43 GMT < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <bldva7$4pb$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  J In article <bld6s7$ifu$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:Q >>Now to the case where delivery of a mail is unsuccessfull: it doesn't matter if Q >>it counts as a message. The amount of these cases is neglectable to the overall Q >>number of successfully delivered messages. On the other hand, it is technically L >>possible to do an exact billing, but I think it is not worth the overhead. >>M >As a percentage of successfully delivered mail messages that maybe so but to L >the user who sent out one mail message and is billed for a thousand it is a >different matter.  O The question is whether such scenarios will really exist. As soon as there is a H fee even for unsuccessfull connection attempts those will be immediatelyH reduced to reasonable numbers. An average user will send perhaps a dozenH messages per day. I would assume that almost all of them will go throughM immediately. From time to time there is one that has to bee resent every four H hours during three days or so. So the poor users will have to pay for 18N additionale messages. Remember, I suggest a SMALL fee, 0.05 $ or even lower. A2 fee that will only be high in case of huge counts.  N >You seem to be assuming that mail and the internet are a hierachical network.K >They aren't. SMTP is routed over a virtual connection directly between the P >sender and recipient systems (Organisations may force this to also pass through? >intermediate systems ie their central mailhubs if they wish).    H I am well aware of that. But I still don't see any contradiction with myN approach. Direct connections between small ISPs, links between companies, theyN all won't be affected and be free. As a government I would only impose the feeI on the few largest network companies, those that provide the big lines or I links. What these companies then will do is up to them. There are several K possibilities but I am sure that the billing will go along all the channels L until they reach single customers in various places of the world. It is veryM likely that contracts will look pretty the same as they do nowadays, with one K exception: the fixed or traffic bound fee will increase if originating mail M messages will exceed a certain number. This number will vary from contract to M contract and will usually not be exceeded unless something "strange" is going N on, e.g. a spammer starts working at your site or you suffer from a virus likeL SWEN, etc. . But you will double your effort to prevent such cases (it costs, money!) or take measures to stop such cases.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 07:29:02 GMT < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <bldvnu$4pb$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  J In article <bld8ks$j23$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:X >In article <vnjejme0q66c42@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:; >>"Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message 5 >>news:blbs3f$9v9oi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de...   K >>A fee based system may be out of reach but I think we can improve SMTP to " >>make it harder for the spammers. >> >> > ( >Looking at ways to improve SMTP great. P >I have grave doubts whether it would be good to have a fee based system even if& >all the problems could be sorted out. > H >comp.os.vms is linked to a mailing list (as are many other newsgroups). > P >If we already had a fee based mail system in place would similar discussions toK >this one ever take place ? Would anyone answer technical queries if it was 2 >going to cost them or their organisation money ?  > L >A fee based system might well have a bigger effect on legitimate mail users >than on the spammers.  O I suggest a SMALL fee, neglectable for "normal" usage. There is no problem with K replies to mailing lists. The one or two messages that I post per day would L cost me 0.01 $ or so. No problem. There might be a problem with listservers.O They produce a larger than average amount of traffic. The only solutions I have M here is either something like an annual subscription fee (which will keep the L list completely spam-free, even without moderation ;-)   ) or the listserverK running at a site where there is already very high traffic so that it won't  fall into account.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 07:43:00 GMT < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <ble0i4$4pb$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  J In article <blddld$khs$4@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:p >In article <blcsgr$olu$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:Y >>In article <vnje11aglv7k25@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:  >>> L >>>"Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in message- >>>news:blbctn$4jd$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de... O >>>> In article <blabbl$ivi$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:  >>> L >>>It's trivial for a person to send your web server a spoofed packet with aL >>>bogus source IP address and a source port of 25.  It's not much harder toM >>>arrange the payload so that your web server replies (to port 25) with "I'm L >>>sorry but CR.CR couldn't be found".  That packet would count against your >>>bill, right?  >>Q >>Correct. But it it would hurt me only once. It all depends on how my ISP or his M >>uplink and so on do the accounting. Let's modify my technical suggestion so M >>that we count only packets from port 25 to port 25 containing "CR.CR". I am 6 >>sure there are still ways to do some tricky things.  > O >In that case you will pick up no mail traffic at all. SMTP mail is directed at % >port 25 it never comes from port 25.   O Ok, I see. Nevertheless, it won't work in our case. Packets to port 25 may only 6 originate from our mailserver, not from the webserver.   >>But as soon as the billingO >>is implemented, there will come up "billing boxes" that do a very clever job. L >>But if you cheat billing systems, I'm sure there will be a lot more effortO >>everywhere to punish you which in turn makes it more likely that you try such  >>attempts.  >>5 >And how much overhead will all this logging create ?   < Less than the overhead currently underway in spam fighting.   O >Welcome to slownet even slower than your current internet experience coming to  >you very very slowly.  K Currently our connection is overloaded with virus- and spam-traffic. We are 4 going to buy a new system to keep up with the load.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 07:52:38 GMT < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <ble146$4pb$4@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  V In article <3F7A6054.4631F2A5@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:O >One totally different approach would be to build a database of authorized SMTP N >servers. Anyone with a fixed IP address could register, with legitimate name,N >address etc. That person would then be held responsible for all emails coming >from that IP address. > M >If that IP address starts to send spam or viruses, you then have an easy way L >to contact the person/organbisation to get an explanation. If there are too= >many complaints, that IP address is flagged in the database.  > O >Receivers would only need to check to see if the sender's IP address is listed < >in the database and accept only those which are registered. > L >The SMTP protocol itself wouldn't need to change. Just SMTP server softwareF >which would add an RBL like check very early in the SMTP negotiation.  E There is already a very cheap solution: http://www.duketown.com/pinjo ' No need to change your server software.   O But the approach is not practical. We get requests from all over the world from M sites that we don't know in advance. We would be very busy maintaining a list M of authorized sites. Assume a customer service department of a large company,  there it would be even worse.   L What we need is a "stamp" on the e-mail like the one on a written letter, anH indication that someone actually paid for the transport of the message.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 13:31:42 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 9 Message-ID: <blekvt$b7mu4$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   , In article <3F7A3A51.8010101@tsoft-inc.com>,+ 	David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: < >> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message6 >> news:blbs3f$9v9oi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de... >>  / >>>In article <3F78E20E.2010100@tsoft-inc.com>, - >>>David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>> K >>>>The real issue is that if something isn't done to stop, or at least put  >>>> >> some  >>  F >>>>limits on spam, it will totally destroy the usefulness of internet >>>>
 >> e-mail. >>  	 >> [snip]  >>   >>  M >>>But it will never be implemented because there are and will remain to many L >>>machines without the ability to play that game.  Sendmail, as we know it, >>>is not going away.  > " > Fine, tell me what won't happen.  A What won't happen is the global implementation of any system that A involves per message payment.  Neither will Sendmail disappear as " the primary public Email MTA.  :-(   > P > Tell me what you're going to do when you have to work overtime to get through & > all the e-mail you recieve each day?  G I already do it.  I filter large numbers of mesages either to /dev/null G (pretty much anything with Microsoft or MS in the headers) or to (very)  low priority folders.    > P > What are you going to do when your connection to the internet, no matter what O > type you have, is dedicating 90% of it's bandwidth to spam and such, and you  ( > cannot move the data you need to move? > Q > The problem with filters at the receiving end is that the transfer takes place  * > before you make any filtering decisions.  / True, but that's the system we live with today.    > ; > So, you've told me what won't happen.  Got any solutions?   E Well, I included one in the message you copied the above out of.  :-)    >  > How're the cables working?  C Great, It's really noce not to have to steal a cable from a running 4 system anytime I need to use a CDROM on another box.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:10:09 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) / Message-ID: <vnlo22duetfpe1@news.supernews.com>   I "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in message * news:bldvnu$4pb$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de...L > In article <bld8ks$j23$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:A > >In article <vnjejme0q66c42@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero"  <John@mvpsi.com> writes:= > >>"Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message 7 > >>news:blbs3f$9v9oi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de...  > J > >>A fee based system may be out of reach but I think we can improve SMTP to$ > >>make it harder for the spammers. > >> > >> > > ) > >Looking at ways to improve SMTP great. J > >I have grave doubts whether it would be good to have a fee based system even if ( > >all the problems could be sorted out. > > J > >comp.os.vms is linked to a mailing list (as are many other newsgroups). > > C > >If we already had a fee based mail system in place would similar  discussions toI > >this one ever take place ? Would anyone answer technical queries if it  was 3 > >going to cost them or their organisation money ?  > > H > >A fee based system might well have a bigger effect on legitimate mail users  > >than on the spammers. > L > I suggest a SMALL fee, neglectable for "normal" usage. There is no problem withG > replies to mailing lists. The one or two messages that I post per day  would A > cost me 0.01 $ or so. No problem. There might be a problem with  listservers.L > They produce a larger than average amount of traffic. The only solutions I haveK > here is either something like an annual subscription fee (which will keep  the C > list completely spam-free, even without moderation ;-)   ) or the 
 listserverG > running at a site where there is already very high traffic so that it  won't  > fall into account. >   I Come on, do the math!  $0.01 is cheap for a persons normal e-mail but, it I would kill Info-VAX.  If there are 10,000 subscribers, who's going to pay / the $100.00 every time someone posts a message?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:35:39 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) ( Message-ID: <3F7AF44B.3090705@rdrop.com>  F Money, money, money. Tell me, people, who gets to keep all this money?   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 11:24:14 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 3 Message-ID: <eL75HAaczLUH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <3F7AF44B.3090705@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:H > Money, money, money. Tell me, people, who gets to keep all this money?  @ The receiving ISP, presumably offseting their cost of bandwidth.C Supposedly a free market for ISP customers keeps them from propping 1 prices artificially high (just as it does today).    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:01:43 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> @ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."0 Message-ID: <bleq95$evj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Simon Clubley wrote: > In article <00A26A0C.3A02A3B5@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  > z >>In article <UEUioLumg82f@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >>M >>>Isn't it just possible that Sun has done it's Open Source work, not out of L >>>the goodness of it's heart, but because it's trying hard to find a way toN >>>appear relevant in a world that considers Linux, and not Solaris/Sun, to be >>>the cool fashionable thing ?  >>O >>It's unlikely, given that Sun has invented and released intellectual property P >>(like NFS, for example) since before either Linux or Open Source (tm, I think)P >>was invented.  (Not before freeware and shareware exchange was invented; DECUS0 >>was doing that stuff before Sun was invented.) >>L >>That might be a motivation to _continue_ Open Source development, freeware= >>contributions, etc, but it can't be the reason Sun started.  >> >  > I > I agree. I was aware that Sun was releasing code and specifications for0K > general use for different reasons (IIRC, developing Java was Sun's way oflK > creating a technology that could compete with Microsoft when that was thesM > major rival) before the current Open Source movement developed but I didn'te > make it clear enough.e > L > The other thing to bear in mind when reading my comments about Sun is thatM > I am suspicious of any company that would directly or indirectly assist SCOp > in it's current actions. > H So far no one has shown that Sun is assisting SCO directly or indirectlyH in its current actions so I am not sure who your suspicions are directed at.s   But lets take a step back.  G SCO have made some allegations which may or may not be true. Apart from E a lot of angry braying from the Linux folks no one has suggested thatoA SCO definitively does not have a case (IBM, RedHat etc excepted).I  E So what happens if SCO's case does turn out to have substance and IBMcF did missuse SCO's IP. Well oddly you will find that all the people whoF actually work for HP will be sitting on their hands not saying a thingF because HP knows as well as anyone that companies and indeviduals have/ to be allowed to protect their IP from missuse.   E I have an open mind SCO may have a case they may not, however if theyyF do then the conspiracy theorists close to HP who currently think Sun'sC fair game because of our ties with SCO will be the first to have to C eat their words because HP is as keen on protecting their IP as any? technology company.    Regardsa Andrew Harrisonu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:27:34 +0100uO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>R@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."0 Message-ID: <blerpl$fcq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Simon Clubley wrote: > In article <00A26A0C.3A02A3B5@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  > z >>In article <UEUioLumg82f@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >>M >>>Isn't it just possible that Sun has done it's Open Source work, not out of-L >>>the goodness of it's heart, but because it's trying hard to find a way toN >>>appear relevant in a world that considers Linux, and not Solaris/Sun, to be >>>the cool fashionable thing ?J >>O >>It's unlikely, given that Sun has invented and released intellectual property.P >>(like NFS, for example) since before either Linux or Open Source (tm, I think)P >>was invented.  (Not before freeware and shareware exchange was invented; DECUS0 >>was doing that stuff before Sun was invented.) >>L >>That might be a motivation to _continue_ Open Source development, freeware= >>contributions, etc, but it can't be the reason Sun started.  >> >  > I > I agree. I was aware that Sun was releasing code and specifications for K > general use for different reasons (IIRC, developing Java was Sun's way of5K > creating a technology that could compete with Microsoft when that was theeM > major rival) before the current Open Source movement developed but I didn't  > make it clear enough.n > L > The other thing to bear in mind when reading my comments about Sun is thatM > I am suspicious of any company that would directly or indirectly assist SCOb > in it's current actions. >   C Now if I was a conspiracy theorist which I am not I would be askingo% HP a few searching questions as well.   2 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33143.html   Regards- Andrew Harrison  > Simon. >    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 12:02:11 -0500jB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."3 Message-ID: <Wd3y9O0e$Mkv@eisner.encompasserve.org>-   In article <blerpl$fcq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Simon Clubley wrote: >> nM >> The other thing to bear in mind when reading my comments about Sun is thatnN >> I am suspicious of any company that would directly or indirectly assist SCO >> in it's current actions.m >> p > E > Now if I was a conspiracy theorist which I am not I would be asking9' > HP a few searching questions as well.t > 4 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33143.html >   4 When I said any company Andrew, I meant any company.  J If HP were funding SCO behind the scenes with new agreements after statingH a pro-Linux/anti-SCO position in public, then they would deserve as muchI criticism as Sun is getting. (In fact, probably stronger because of theirn now anti-SCO public position.)  L However, until I see solid evidence that they are doing this, I will believeL that HP is indeed breaking it's connections to SCO, and I for one am pleased to see them do that.   Simon.   -- 7B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 06:07:08 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>. Subject: Re: ITRC Download site - some answers) Message-ID: <3F7AA739.974AF8F4@istop.com>    Another bug in the ITRC site.d  I After you have registered, an email is sent to the mailbox you specified.L8 That email is encoded with text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1  K However, Jean-Franois Mezei, which is what I had entered on the web, comeso out as:a  N Jean-François Mezei  ( A tilde, with the paragraph sign (looks like an S with an oval in the middle))e    M I assume that somewhere it git transformed into unicode stuff but they forgot * to revert it back to latin1 for the email.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:43:54 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton). Subject: Re: ITRC Download site - some answers> Message-ID: <Kdyeb.383181$2x.123536@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  o In article <Sxqeb.505$qj6.466734@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "george pagliarulo" <georgepag@adelphia.net> writes:A !Hi, !rJ !    I work with the VMS ECO release process.  Customer messages have goneM !out about the new ITRC ECO site and the changes that are coming but there iskD !still a lot of confusion about how the site will work, what will beM !available, what doesn't work etc.  Hopefully this will clear some things up.  !  !Patch Digests !-------------- M !Digests are the way you get notified of new kits.   You need to register forwI !them but registration is open and does *NOT* require a contact number asi. !someone alluded to (see contract note below).M !There is a known problem with the digests in that they pick up all or almostrJ !all the ECO's that are released rather than just the ECO's released sinceM !the last digest was issued (weekly).  The problem is fixed but unfortunatelynL !the fix can't be implemented until there is a release of the ITRC software.M !That will happen in October.  When it does you should not see more than 5 towK !8 ECOs in a VMS digest, probably a lot less most of the time.  If no ECO'sd; !have been released for the week, no digest will be issued.   E Thank you, George - this is precisely the response I was looking for!t   !snip!  K !If you are not getting an adequate response from mail sent to the ITRC let J !me know.  I can either answer your questions or get a hold of someone whoJ !can.  I can also let the ITRC know that they have a response problem.  IfJ !you just want to bitch send me that too... I won't guarantee an answer toF !that but I want to hear what is frustrating VMS users about the ITRC.M !People are listening to what you are saying and a lot of work is going on torH !make the ITRC site as VMS friendly as possible.   A lot of issues arose  J I am one of those who have complained, and I am glad that my concerns (andF those of others) are being heard.  I had a couple of e-mail queries goK unanswered in late August/early September, but subsequent events (including I this post) have rendered answers moot.  It's good to know that there is a J "court of last resort" if we get no response through traditional channels.   !snip! !George Pagliarulo !george.pagliarulo@hp.comc  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own"aK bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:10:48 +0200y$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>. Subject: Re: ITRC Download site - some answers9 Message-ID: <blel1i$bi8d7$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   / On 2003-10-01 03:59, "george pagliarulo" wrote::   > Hi,t > K >     I work with the VMS ECO release process.  Customer messages have gonesN > out about the new ITRC ECO site and the changes that are coming but there isE > still a lot of confusion about how the site will work, what will beiN > available, what doesn't work etc.  Hopefully this will clear some things up.   Thanks for posting, George!    > Patch Digestsv > --------------N > Digests are the way you get notified of new kits.   You need to register forJ > them but registration is open and does *NOT* require a contact number as/ > someone alluded to (see contract note below).   H A "digest" is acceptable for notification of "standard patches", but ...  N > There is a known problem with the digests in that they pick up all or almostK > all the ECO's that are released rather than just the ECO's released sinceoN > the last digest was issued (weekly).  The problem is fixed but unfortunatelyM > the fix can't be implemented until there is a release of the ITRC software.   G ... be prepared of some mail bounces due to mailbox size limitations if ' the "digest" exceeds a few MBs, and ...a   > [...]mJ > Someone mentioned that weekly notification was completely inadequate forI > security related issues.  That's absolutely correct.  But, if we have aoN > security related issue, typically, we issue a Customer Advisory that detailsJ > the problem and what the corrective action is - usually a pointer to theL > applicable kit.  The CAs go out through a completely different process andN > have no time restrictions.  This same process would apply anytime we need to* > get a critical message out to customers.  F ... do those subscribed to the "digest mailing list" automatically getE the "customer advisories" too -- despite of the "completely differentn	 process"?1   > [...]l >  > Searching  > ----------N > Right now if you search for, say, V7.3-1 ECO kits, they come up in no order.J > In the future, search results will be ordered by installation rating andM > then by issue date.  You will also be able to search by installation rating0L > keywords, issue dates and kit name keywords (which does not work that wellG > right now).   These changes will not make the afore-mentioned OctoberDN > release of the ITRC.  They will happen in the December release but there areL > workarounds.  I don't have the specifics in front of me right now but I'll > post them later.  H What about "cross dependencies" of patches? Example, taken from a recent
 notification:s  > | TITLE: OpenVMS VMS731_LAN-V0700 Alpha V7.3-1 LAN ECO Summary!                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^h |  | [...]v |  |      Kit Dependencies: |h? |        The following remedial kit(s) must be installed BEFOREo" |        installation of this kit: |r |          VMS731_PCSI-V0100            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |r? |        In order to receive all the corrections listed in this C |        kit, the following remedial kits should also be installed:E |  |          Nonee  E When requesting the VMS731_LAN-V0700 patch there should be a questiontG "Do you want to get the VMS731_PCSI-V0100 patch which is a prerequisitei? too?" If the response is "yes" then the PCSI patch will also beeG downloaded. If there is another patch depending on the very same (i.e., F PCSI) patch as a prerequisite the question shouldn't be asked again of course.    > [...]oN > People are listening to what you are saying and a lot of work is going on to   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   That's good news!a  9 > make the ITRC site as VMS friendly as possible.   [...]t   Michaele   -- w; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.n@ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.s= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)f   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 11:50:57 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>. Subject: Re: ITRC Download site - some answers9 Message-ID: <blet54$b9e3l$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>e   george pagliarulo wrote: >...> > probably a lot less most of the time.  If no ECO's have been released; > for the week, no digest will be issued. Someone mentioned1 that weeklyB >...  > I would feel a lot better getting an e-mail that said "Nothing> this week" rather than having to think "Was there nothing this> week, or did something important get lost in that SWEN flood?"   -- o Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.y Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXa www.weaverconsulting.cau   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:11:35 GMTi" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG$ Subject: Re: New round of cuts at HP0 Message-ID: <00A26B73.BB9E0823@SendSpamHere.ORG>  J In article <bld7m7$iq2$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes: {...snip...} >lD >This dropping of support for earlier versions really p*ssed me off.I >We have some systems which for application reasons are stuck at VMS 6.2. P >Due to various factors we needed to multihome these systems. We found that withN >UCX 4.2 the routing would not work correctly - we needed both a default route< >to the rest of the world and a route to a 10.x.x.x network.M >This surprised us since it worked fine on DEC TCPIP services 5.x systems butu6 >checking with Compaq showed this was a known problem.K >To solve the problem we were forced to buy TCPWARE for these systems whichi >is compatible back to VMS 5.5.   I On the otherhand, I have UCX V4.2 ECO 1 still running because it seems tosG handle the multiple interfaces whereas TCP/IP V5.x does not.  I haven'tcG tried to get it working with the latest TCP/IP version.  Maybe I shoulde" set aside some time and try again.  b --  L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            s5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:52:59 +0100nO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>i Subject: Re: Nice touch, AMD0 Message-ID: <blet9a$fvp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:,R > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > D >>It doesn't however the only OE refered to in the document is HP-UXC >>10.xx and there is no errata or other information suggesting that ; >>while the K Series supports 8GB of RAM HP-UX 10 does not.  >  > G > Clearly an oversite when editing the document over its lifetime.  The D > 10.20 release notes at docs.hp.com include the 10.10 release notesG > (page 3-9, or just search for "3.75" at docs.hp.com) when maximum RAM G > suport was increased from 2GB to 3.75 GB (the other .25 GB of addresso% > space being reserved for IO space).e >  > rick jones > F > BTW, your mention of 32-bit 2.5 and 2.6 and AIX kernels supporting >H > 4GB of RAM made me curious about "history" - if you could send me some- > URLs discussing that I would appreciate it.  >   ? Well you have an answer from the coal face so to speak, someone 3 actually using 2.5.1/2.6 with more than 4GB of RAM.e  B http://www.sunhelp.org/pipermail/sunhelp/2001-February/008754.html  B Here is some documentation for the E6000/4000/3000 which documents this.3  I http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hardware/docs/pdf/802-5032-15.pdf    Regards: Andrew Harrison(   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:42:28 GMT.$ From: Ken.Moreau@hp.com (Ken Moreau). Subject: Re: OT: Talk about bad luck (Halifax)- Message-ID: <3f7abc0c.1675256551@news.hp.com>o  F It was the Miami Herald, about 3-4 months after Andrew (Aug 24, 1992). I don't have a URL, sorry.   JF Mezei wrote:h  ( >> Who inspected it during construction. >mK >I find it interesting that folks in hurricane prone areas would think thatlC >saving a few bucks by not building to code would be a good thing. o  F Let me be clear: it wasn't the end-users who thought that.  It was theD builders who were trying to keep up with the overwhelming tidal wave> of humanity that wants to live in Florida, both from the NorthC (retirees from frozen climes of the US) and from the South (Cubans,tE Haitians, Bermudans, etc).  A lot of them were/are honest vendors whoA> are trying to build a good product, but a lot of them are realC sleazeballs who slap a house together and hope that it doesn't fall F apart before the people move in.  The honest inspectors like the first< group and catch the second group, while the less than honest0 inspectors *really* like the second group... :^)  D Most of the houses are CBS, but the inspectors "missed" (sic) thingsD like whether the roof trusses were actually attached to the concreteA block, or whether a significant fraction of the nails in the roof 0 sheathing actually came near any of the trusses.  
 -- Ken Moreaug   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:05:03 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> . Subject: Re: OT: Talk about bad luck (Halifax)G Message-ID: <jaBeb.22894$lKj.5146@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>I  " Searching the Herald archives withJ 'building inspection AND date(08/24/1992 to 02/24/1993)' found a number of	 articles.w  L Thanks for the lead. We don't have the same issue with hurricanes here (justL the rare tornado) but the articles will be well worth posting at the site ofH my new cottage for both the trades and local building inspectors to see.           Ken Moreau wrote:oH > It was the Miami Herald, about 3-4 months after Andrew (Aug 24, 1992). > I don't have a URL, sorry. >t > JF Mezei wrote:t >f) >>> Who inspected it during construction.o >>B >> I find it interesting that folks in hurricane prone areas wouldC >> think that saving a few bucks by not building to code would be an >> good thing. >aH > Let me be clear: it wasn't the end-users who thought that.  It was theF > builders who were trying to keep up with the overwhelming tidal wave@ > of humanity that wants to live in Florida, both from the NorthE > (retirees from frozen climes of the US) and from the South (Cubans,tG > Haitians, Bermudans, etc).  A lot of them were/are honest vendors whof@ > are trying to build a good product, but a lot of them are realE > sleazeballs who slap a house together and hope that it doesn't fallgH > apart before the people move in.  The honest inspectors like the first> > group and catch the second group, while the less than honest2 > inspectors *really* like the second group... :^) >oF > Most of the houses are CBS, but the inspectors "missed" (sic) thingsF > like whether the roof trusses were actually attached to the concreteC > block, or whether a significant fraction of the nails in the roofo2 > sheathing actually came near any of the trusses. >n > -- Ken Moreauf   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:28:32 GMT.9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>i Subject: Re: PCI Device Access2 Message-ID: <QgDeb.6088$b02.5580@news.cpqcorp.net>  
 Good luck.  C Dunno which "Powerstorm" card you have, but there is pretty much nov documentation on any of them.a  L In any case, your best bet for the actual access to the HW is to look in theH DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG file.  If you are lucky, you will find somethingF that says something like "CSR PFN" which is what you need to "map" the2 hardware from user mode.  You'll need PFNMAP priv.  K You might try finding an old ELSA card.  I believe that it uses power saveri mode for screen blanking.c    D "Joe Headrick" <william.j.headrick@lmco.nospam.com> wrote in message; news:vB4cb.2919$ai7.696@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...  > Hi, F >     Well, I really do want to do it from user space (just because it
 > "should" be K > so easy reading and writing one word :-) ). However, I think I follow your on > theeI > PCI issue (drat). We actually have two machines and two video cards. Ang > Alphaa? > 1000 with a TGA card, and a Alpha 800 with a Powerstorm card.mI >    The real problem is these machines are on 24/7 and have LCD monitors  > which aresL > VERY expensive to repair (yup - have to use them). If we could disable the > Sync,oI > they would probably last 3 times longer (ok, maybe only 2 times). Silly- > bulbs are5 > pricey to replace.H >    If you (or anyone) has any ideas, they are appreciated. Otherwise I will > put it on H > the back burner until I can get the book, and write a pseudo driver of some
 > sort (ifK > that is even possible). Sad thing is, it would probably be a short job to. > add it to thehJ > two video drivers if I had source :-( (BIG assumption on my part I know) >a >    Joe Headrick  >e4 > "Roger Ivie" <rivie@ridgenet.net> wrote in message/ > news:slrnbmv2vt.c66.rivie@Stench.no.domain...wK > > In article <xmLbb.64890$NM1.8457@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Joei > > Headrick wrote:o > > [[[ snip ]]] > > > Anyway, I need > > > to bewF > > > able to turn off the horiz and vert sync on a couple of types of
 > graphics > > > cards, andL > > > figured writing the IO registers would be the best bet (no source, and > > > apparently nor > > > DPMI in 6.2-1H3).m > > [[[ snip ]]]E > > >   If anyone has a IO example that they can share... It would bey > appreciated. > >fJ > > What, precisely, do you mean? I don't have IO examples to share, but IB > > have written several PCI device drivers and done some register3 > > mutilation from user-level code (ahhh, PFNMAP).u > > L > > If you are talking about doing it from a device driver, there are kernelL > > services to help; IOC$READ_IO and IOC$WRITE_IO being, probably, the most
 > > relevant.  > > I > > If you're talking about doing it from user-level code, you'll need tonG > > know A LOT about the system you're trying to use. You'll be arguingeB > > with the CPU to PCI bridge. I've done code dealing with APECS,I > > CIA/PYXIS, and TSUNAMI/TYPHOON, but even then I had to have help fromeC > > the device driver (and in the case of TSUNAMI/TYPHOON make some  > > simplifying assumptions).y > > -- > > Roger Ivie > > rivie@ridgenet.net > > <input type crash> >s >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:54:05 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>H Subject: Re: Postal Lottery: Turn $6 into $60,000 in 90 days, GUARANTEED2 Message-ID: <yfucnQ0UmckQd-eiXTWJkA@mpowercom.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3F7A5616.43316F29@istop.com...a > Louis wrote: > >t? > > Postal Lottery: Turn $6 into $60,000 in 90 days, GUARANTEED  >n > Does it run on VMS ? >rH That's the version put out by VMS Marketing, except they show you how to) turn $60,000 into $6, and in only 9 days.r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:59:35 +01003 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie> M Subject: Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same program * Message-ID: <blellp$1dc$1@kermit.esat.net>  I >    The easiest way would be to have the program enqueue a lock based ono >    the username.  I Note also that since the lock manager is cluster wide, this would preventmK the user from running the program a second time on any node in the cluster.sK If you only want the restriction to be no more than once on any given node,pK then simply include the node name as well as the username in the lock name.z  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------o< Tom Wade             | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie? EuroKom              | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;n/ Unit A2              |        a=eirmail400;c=ied/ Nutgrove Office Park | Tel:   +353 (1) 296-9696 / Rathfarnham          | Fax:   +353 (1) 296-9697s< Dublin 14            | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimerC Ireland              | Tip:   "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"p   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 08:00:53 GMTs< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Re: rsync for OpenVMS?c0 Message-ID: <ble1jl$4pb$5@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  j In article <j4seb.531$qj6.500560@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: >Christoph Gartmann wrote:	 >> Hello,  >> rR >> I know this has been asked in November 2002 already. But now it would be usefulN >> for me to have it. Is there any progress? I need only the part that accepts >> connections.o > 4 >I have made no progress lately due to lack of time. >yG >The current rsync() code assmes the presence of a UNIX shell, the RSH r+ >command, and support for a working fork().    [...]e  ) >The challenges for rsync on OpenVMS are:  >e >1. Overcome the fork() issue.   What does fork() actually do?y  I >2. A test server is needed to validate an implementation.  Initially it  G >would need to be one of the platforms that rsync supports in order to -% >make sure that it will interoperate.   # I think I could help with that one.o  G >3. Add support for converting text files from stream-LF to the format m0 >that the OpenVMS text editors support and back.   Shouldn't be that difficult.  I >4. Add support for all OpenVMS file types in a way that the files could F! >be stored on a non OpenVMS host.P  N Currently I could live with stream-LF files. Having fixed-512 as well would be# nice but this should be sufficient.o   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannt   -- cE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452s  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de.  D-79011  Freiburg, GermanyD9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmle   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:08:00 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>a Subject: Re: rsync for OpenVMS?e: Message-ID: <Aszeb.586$qj6.605621@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Christoph Gartmann wrote: < > In article <j4seb.531$qj6.500560@news1.news.adelphia.net>,1   "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:n >  >>Christoph Gartmann wrote:  >> i > * >>The challenges for rsync on OpenVMS are: >> >>1. Overcome the fork() issue.n >  > What does fork() actually do?p  G On the client, it does two things.  One is it spawns it self, and then  C it spawns a receiving process.  So you have one process exchanging vC checksums, and determining what to send next, and another actually l moving the data.  ? The client mode will actuall work peer to peer, and can try to y8 addtionally use RSH to start up the remote rsync server.  4 The server forks a receiving thread like the client.  H Client and server are also blurred, because basically you have the file E source and the receiver.  And I think that you can push or pull with m either the client or  server.    > J >>2. A test server is needed to validate an implementation.  Initially it H >>would need to be one of the platforms that rsync supports in order to & >>make sure that it will interoperate.  % > I think I could help with that one.y   That would be good.    > H >>3. Add support for converting text files from stream-LF to the format 1 >>that the OpenVMS text editors support and back.o >    > Shouldn't be that difficult.  G Actually based on the way that rsync() and the CRTL work, it is not as l easy as it could be.   > J >>4. Add support for all OpenVMS file types in a way that the files could " >>be stored on a non OpenVMS host.  P > Currently I could live with stream-LF files. Having fixed-512 as well would be% > nice but this should be sufficient.-  E For non-text files, it could be a matter of adding a file attributes nD file to the archive that could be tied to the original file by some + convention.  There are other possibilities.e  D If something is found, GZIP, (VMS)TAR, and (VMS)SAMBA could also be & modified to adopt the same convention.   -John. wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlys   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:17:14 GMTv- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>o Subject: Re: rsync for OpenVMS?>: Message-ID: <eBzeb.587$qj6.608301@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Esa Laitinen wrote:@= > On 2003-10-01, John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:y > J >>2. A test server is needed to validate an implementation.  Initially it H >>would need to be one of the platforms that rsync supports in order to & >>make sure that it will interoperate. > G > Tried to e-mail you, but you didn't provide a working e-mail address.r  D The e-mail address from the real top level domain works.  The small I modifications keeps the various worms away, and also wastes space in the l spammers databases.i  I Be warned that QSL.NET runs very aggressive spam DNSbls.  It is rare for r them to reject a real e-mail.o  F Last January they added a content filter.  It misses sometimes, so if H you get a bounce from your ISP with "SPAM+SPAM+SPAM+SPAM" it means that & the content filter has glitched again.  E But if you post here, If I do not see it, there are plenty here that g& know my other public e-mail addresses.  I > Anyway, I can help you with this, if you're willing and able to do the o
 > work ;-)  E Willing is one thing.  Time is another.  I hope to get back to doing   rsync soon.s   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:30:20 -0400, From: "Richard Whalen" <WhalenR@process.com> Subject: Re: rsync for OpenVMS? + Message-ID: <blehd0$qmk$1@news.process.com>'  H A port of rsync should be able to use SSH (as well as RSH) as many sites5 require the use of SSH for authentication these days.f  8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message4 news:Aszeb.586$qj6.605621@news1.news.adelphia.net... > Christoph Gartmann wrote: > > > In article <j4seb.531$qj6.500560@news1.news.adelphia.net>,3 >   "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:e > >P :i >a@ > The client mode will actuall work peer to peer, and can try to: > addtionally use RSH to start up the remote rsync server. >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:09:42 +0100rO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>R Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit0 Message-ID: <bleqo4$evj$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Greg Cagle wrote:p > : >>Andrew! What's happening to Sun stock? What's this about1 >>a $1B charge for LAST quarter? Can you explain?o >  > 
 > MUST he? >   < No anyone who cant tell the difference between a paper write. down and a loss doen't deserve an explanation.   Regardsc Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:19:42 -0500, From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit/ Message-ID: <vnls4f11mu9ac9@corp.supernews.com>:  G I doubt if Andrew is privy to the real answer.  No insult intended.  MevL thinks the Sun is setting.  Reminds me of what happend to DEC when they tookF their collective eye off the ball.  Doesn't happen over night, but the symptoms look similar.    < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3F7A2D5D.F9ADE3D5@fsi.net...c > Greg Cagle wrote:o > >b< > > Andrew! What's happening to Sun stock? What's this about3 > > a $1B charge for LAST quarter? Can you explain?f >'
 > MUST he? >c > -- ' > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >i* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:53:02 -0700t1 From: Greg Cagle <news@*removethis*gregcagle.com>i Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit/ Message-ID: <vnm1jhjded3gc3@corp.supernews.com>r  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  >> Greg Cagle wrote: >>< >>> Andrew! What's happening to Sun stock? What's this about3 >>> a $1B charge for LAST quarter? Can you explain?n >> >> >> >> MUST he?  >> > > > No anyone who cant tell the difference between a paper write0 > down and a loss doen't deserve an explanation.  ; I didn't say LOSS; I said CHARGE. Anyone who can't tell thed- difference doesn't deserve to be listened to.a   -- a
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:01:59 GMTn9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>t Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit2 Message-ID: <bMDeb.6096$D92.1266@news.cpqcorp.net>  F I suppose a CPA can understand what "increased valuation allowance forJ deferred tax assets" means.  What exactly the "paper writedown" is I don'tK know.  Did they screw something up and this is a correction (i.e. they lostmE more money than they thought)?  Some change in accounting?  They justf overlooked it?  Dunno.  E The easier thing to understand is a 7 to 10 cent loss per share _not_cA including the 1b charge, and 32 cents/share including the charge.o    K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:bleqo4$evj$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...t > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Greg Cagle wrote:k > >a< > >>Andrew! What's happening to Sun stock? What's this about3 > >>a $1B charge for LAST quarter? Can you explain?  > >m > >C > > MUST he? > >h >m> > No anyone who cant tell the difference between a paper write0 > down and a loss doen't deserve an explanation. >f	 > Regardsi > Andrew Harrisonf >t   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 12:54:50 -0500i; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit3 Message-ID: <uwMo+SijbVVW@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  ^ In article <vnls4f11mu9ac9@corp.supernews.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> writes:I > I doubt if Andrew is privy to the real answer.  No insult intended.  Me-N > thinks the Sun is setting.  Reminds me of what happend to DEC when they tookH > their collective eye off the ball.  Doesn't happen over night, but the > symptoms look similar.  2    You guys have been reading Terry Shannon again?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:39:55 GMT:- From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1>n$ Subject: Re: symbiont housekeeping ?2 Message-ID: <Lhxeb.6061$ER1.2987@news.cpqcorp.net>  = "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in messagei. news:blbgee$5oo$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > Martin Hunt wrote:D > > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:00:10 +0200, labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr>
 > > wrote: > >. > >l > >>Chris Sharman wrote:   > Is this issue fixed there ?r   Hello   / I read in the releases notes of Tcpip 5.1 Eco 5h  
 ECO 4 updatesw  
 -------------S   ECO F 16-OCT-2001 Alpha and VAX    Images:d   TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE V5.1-15F   TCPIP$BIND_SERVER.EXE V5.1-15B  # TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_XFER.EXE V5.1-15Be   TCPIP$SMTP_MAILSHR.EXE V5.1-15Is   Problem:  C SMTP symbiont dies with log showing SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV error trying toi  A access CF control file. This is followed by ACCVIO's. Occurs onlya  ; with heavy SMTP load. Diagnosed as memory leak in V5.1 BINDe  ! Resolver which SMTP uses heavily.   
 Reference:  - PTR 70-5-1855 / CFS.87060 / Req Id: SE_G02252b  - PTR 70-5-1983 / CFS.90062 / Req Id: FI_G03305   - PTR 70-5-2010 / CFS.90875 / Req Id: GB_G03588n          H So I would be inclined to think the fix is in the Eco 4 and the Eco 5 of
 Tcpip 5.1.   Regardsi   Grard      & La haie aurait besoin d 'etre taillee.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:11:57 +0100e0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>$ Subject: Re: symbiont housekeeping ?4 Message-ID: <ble99d$j22$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   labadie wrote:? > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message(0 > news:blbgee$5oo$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... >  >>Martin Hunt wrote: >>C >>>On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:00:10 +0200, labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr><	 >>>wrote:1 >>>u >>>. >>>n >>>>Chris Sharman wrote: >  >  >>Is this issue fixed there ?o  9 My issue is lpd, not smtp, so I guess no, it isn't fixed.o   Thanks,t Chrisi  1 > I read in the releases notes of Tcpip 5.1 Eco 5> >  > ECO 4 updatesn >  > -------------d > ! > ECO F 16-OCT-2001 Alpha and VAX  > 	 > Images:t >  > TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE V5.1-15F >   > TCPIP$BIND_SERVER.EXE V5.1-15B > % > TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_XFER.EXE V5.1-15Bt > ! > TCPIP$SMTP_MAILSHR.EXE V5.1-15Ii > 
 > Problem: > E > SMTP symbiont dies with log showing SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV error trying to. > C > access CF control file. This is followed by ACCVIO's. Occurs onlya > = > with heavy SMTP load. Diagnosed as memory leak in V5.1 BINDr > # > Resolver which SMTP uses heavily.( >  > Reference: > / > PTR 70-5-1855 / CFS.87060 / Req Id: SE_G02252i > / > PTR 70-5-1983 / CFS.90062 / Req Id: FI_G03305  > / > PTR 70-5-2010 / CFS.90875 / Req Id: GB_G03588a >  >  >  >  > J > So I would be inclined to think the fix is in the Eco 4 and the Eco 5 of > Tcpip 5.1. > 	 > Regards_ >  > Grard >  >  > ( > La haie aurait besoin d 'etre taillee. >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 01 Oct 2003 08:20:22 GMT- From: robrpm2222@aol.comInternet (RobRPM2222) D Subject: Thanks for the informative responses Re: Security Breakdown: Message-ID: <20031001042022.17268.00000096@mb-m16.aol.com>  N I appreciate the informative responses y'all gave me on the Security Breakdown thread.e  O after reading these well thought out responses (with no flaming, kudos) I think M I will experiment with a OpenVMS hobbyist package after I get my mini-network C up and running and get some cash for an Alpha machine to play with.(  
 thanks again.i   -- oL Rob Meyer                            |  "There are only so many ways to hurt> Goshinbudo Jujitsu (MMA)      |  the human body, and everyone M                                             |  invented them." - Dan Inosanto             ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:34:09 GMTs4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>H Subject: Re: Thanks for the informative responses Re: Security Breakdown0 Message-ID: <3F7B00DD.C721D697@blueyonder.co.uk>   RobRPM2222 wrote:  > P > I appreciate the informative responses y'all gave me on the Security Breakdown	 > thread.t > Q > after reading these well thought out responses (with no flaming, kudos) I thinkfO > I will experiment with a OpenVMS hobbyist package after I get my mini-networktE > up and running and get some cash for an Alpha machine to play with.- >   K No need for alpha (or VAX) hardware to have a hobbyist system. The Simh VAXs9 emulator runs on Intel processors under Linux or Windows.u   regards   u -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 05:42:38 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply). Subject: Re: VMS graphics monitors for dummies$ Message-ID: <bldpge$g7c$1@online.de>  G In article <oumeb.6037$2p1.5774@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoffs Hoffman) writes: l  H > :There seem to be 3 types of connections on the machines: 3 rather big > :holes with pins inside them,  > 3 >   That one, I've seen on TURBOchannel hardware...   G Yes, I have it on a couple of DEC 3000 machines (earliest ALPHAs).  Butc" also on VAXstation 4000 machines.   F >   As for the interfaces, newer stuff uses VGA-compatible connectionsG >   with either the 15-pin D connector or with the five BNC connection.a  5 I guess this would be 15 pins in three rows, not two.   A >   If you want to pursue this, we'll need to know the particularm7 >   graphics controllers involved in this discussion...   F Probably the standard "came from the factory" in the various machines.$ I'll try to collect the information.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:08:45 +0200> From: "Winfried Bergmann" <winfried.bergmannNosPAM@empuron.de>. Subject: Re: VMS graphics monitors for dummies9 Message-ID: <ble1vj$ar7g1$1@ID-170759.news.uni-berlin.de>e  L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>5 schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:bldpge$g7c$1@online.de...oI > In article <oumeb.6037$2p1.5774@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoffh > Hoffman) writes: > J > > :There seem to be 3 types of connections on the machines: 3 rather big! > > :holes with pins inside them,_ > >_5 > >   That one, I've seen on TURBOchannel hardware...  >AI > Yes, I have it on a couple of DEC 3000 machines (earliest ALPHAs).  But # > also on VAXstation 4000 machines.     I VGA monitors with three BNC connectors for RGB usually will work (sync oneK green). You'll need a 3W3 to 3 BNC cable to do this. I don't know, if therejK is also the possibility to connect from 3W3 to 15-pin SubD. Never seen such2 a cable.     >iH > >   As for the interfaces, newer stuff uses VGA-compatible connectionsI > >   with either the 15-pin D connector or with the five BNC connection.s > 7 > I guess this would be 15 pins in three rows, not two.c >nC > >   If you want to pursue this, we'll need to know the particularr9 > >   graphics controllers involved in this discussion...f >yH > Probably the standard "came from the factory" in the various machines.& > I'll try to collect the information.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:47:34 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>*; Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)oH Message-ID: <Gwweb.57607$3r1.38178@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----w >> From: Simon Clubley8 >> [mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]# >> Sent: September 30, 2003 1:18 PMe >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>3 >> In article <3F78B16A.6030603@home.nl>, Dirk Munky >> <munk@home.nl> writes:e >>>uF >>> Brad McCusker gave us a great presentation about the Unix shell in< >>> VMS. In a couple of years time, VMS will have a complete >> Unix shell,F >>> and can then be used as any true Unix (without the security bugs I; >>> hope). At the same time it will remain VMS, and we willh >> still have ourr> >>> trusted VMS DCL commands. (I only hope all the ported Unix= >> stuff we now have will also get a true VMS CLI interface).t8 >>> This presentation was also greeted with enthousiasm. >>>b >>@ >> I, for one, am looking forward to this. The idea of been able >> to compile andc9 >> run the latest Linux application on VMS with few or no  >> changes is a very >> nice one. >>	 >> Simon.t >> >> --i> >> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP@ >> SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most >> disliked companies  >> >n > Simon, >- > Re: UNIX portability kits .. >s > Why wait?O >t > :-)  >e > Check out:D > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/porting.html and .. >g( > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/portability/E > "While the OpenVMS UNIX Portability Initiative eases the porting of G > UNIX applications to OpenVMS, it also facilitates the porting of manyhB > other types of applications to OpenVMS. Linux applications, JavaG > applications, and most Open Source applications benefit from the UNIXd > Portability initiative.i >iE > To accomplish its goals, the UNIX Portability Initiative provides asF > set of UNIX (POSIX) interfaces and tools within OpenVMS in a native,C > integrated fashion. This eliminates performance issues associated A > with a layered emulator solution and enhances interoperability.n >c	 > *Goals*  > - > Native OpenVMS behavior remains the defaultl >BE > OpenVMS can be like any other "flavor" of UNIX (for example, HP-UX,V > Tru64, Solaris, AIX, Linux)^ > H > Cost of porting from UNIX to OpenVMS is equal or comparable to portingE > one "flavor" of UNIX to another (for example,from Solaris to HP-UX)      Kerry,   Why wait indeed!!   I This is the sort of statement that needs to be made to the hordes of unixh+ weenies in unix/Linux-centric publications.s  B Imagine a 1-page ad  in some of the unix/linux developer magazines= (Gasp - what? An ad for VMS even if it's in a backhanded way?aF Relax - it's ok - VMS is only mentioned in conjunction with competeing@ products like AIX, Solaris, and Linux) that goes something like:   ----------------------------  * Looking for new markets for your products?  J Porting Unix/Linux applications to OpenVMS is easier than you ever thought	 possible.   < The OpenVMS UNIX Portability Initiative eases the porting ofF UNIX applications to OpenVMS, and also facilitates the porting of many@ other types of applications to OpenVMS. Linux applications, JavaE applications, and most Open Source applications benefit from the UNIX- Portability initiative.-  * The UNIX Portability Initiative provides aD set of UNIX (POSIX) interfaces and tools within OpenVMS in a native,A integrated fashion. This eliminates performance issues associated1? with a layered emulator solution and enhances interoperability.r  ,  Native OpenVMS behavior remains the default  D  OpenVMS can be like any other "flavor" of UNIX (for example, HP-UX,  Tru64, Solaris, AIX, Linux)  G  Cost of porting from UNIX to OpenVMS is equal or comparable to portingeE  one "flavor" of UNIX to another (for example, from Solaris to HP-UX)m  C See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/porting.html ande>       http://h71000.www7.hp.com/portability/ for more details.   --------------------------------  L Either added to one of the links above or as an additional link in the ad isF a 'before and after' porting example, ie. some reasonable high-qualityI representative application(s) that shows the unix/linux variant and a VMS>* variant, with the differences highlighted.  5 Other useful links are to the VMS docset and the FAQ.r   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 07:11:03 -0500sB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley); Subject: RE: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)g3 Message-ID: <LkWOOmZc7OhB@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0D877D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >  > Simon, >  > Re: UNIX portability kits .. >  > Why wait?r >  > :-)  >    [snip]  K Thanks for the pointers Kerry, but I have looked at these kits in the past, J and although these kits help in a number of areas, they don't address, forI example, the issues like the lack of a fork() for VMS, or a select() that. only works on TCP/IP sockets.o  H That's why I am really looking forward to the upcoming changes to VMS to! support these and other features.   M To give you an idea of the kind of thing that I think that you should be able L to do on VMS in order to call it Unix compatible, you should be able to takeN the current GNU Emacs source kit, run configure on VMS, and then build the kit, also on VMS without any source code changes.  J As a close second, I would consider the goal of Unix compatibility to haveK been achieved if you have to make some minor changes to the source kit, but_: nothing that would involve significant code restructuring.   Simon.   -- rB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:45:40 +0200v From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>; Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands) 2 Message-ID: <blf0mf$blr$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Simon Clubley wrote:~ > In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0D877D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >  >>Simon, >> >>Re: UNIX portability kits .. >> >>Why wait?p >> >>:-)  >> >  >  > [snip] > M > Thanks for the pointers Kerry, but I have looked at these kits in the past,pL > and although these kits help in a number of areas, they don't address, forK > example, the issues like the lack of a fork() for VMS, or a select() thatn > only works on TCP/IP sockets.e  Q These matters are being addressed as I understand the present situation. However n3 it may still take a while before the work is done !/   > J > That's why I am really looking forward to the upcoming changes to VMS to# > support these and other features.  > O > To give you an idea of the kind of thing that I think that you should be able N > to do on VMS in order to call it Unix compatible, you should be able to takeP > the current GNU Emacs source kit, run configure on VMS, and then build the kit. > also on VMS without any source code changes. > L > As a close second, I would consider the goal of Unix compatibility to haveM > been achieved if you have to make some minor changes to the source kit, butg< > nothing that would involve significant code restructuring.  Q That may also depend on the quality of the source as I see it. The VMS compilers iO are quite strict, and not so 'forgiving' as other compilers. So it may well be eP that you will get a lot of warnings, informationals and even errors when you're  compiling certain Unix sources.n     >  > Simon. >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:37:40 +0200( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>; Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)s9 Message-ID: <blf3gh$blhoj$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>h   Sue,  G keep me on the mailing list and I'll be there next year. I changed jobsoI previous year and my current employer does not run a VMS shop (yet). So IrK got a phonecall of a somewhat surprised HP salesperson who tried to link my K current employer with VMS and the fact that I was only reachable at my homea* address. They kept me on the list. So far!J It was a thoroughly enjoyable event and reminded me of Decus Europe eventsD during the 80-ies. Guy Peleg's presentation on Thursday with all theK interruptions from the audience was a good example: an interactive audiencem+ which I hadn't experienced for a long time.i   See you next year!  
 Hans Vlems  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht6 news:857e9e41.0309300414.a4facf6@posting.google.com... > Dear Hans, >aG > Thanks for your very positive feedback, we really apreciate it and itt9 > helps with justification for the project for next year.e > H > I showed the Fraport video in NL but the Bank Austria video in Canada,H > both are excellent testimonials.  The reason I chose the Fraport videoB > for NL is that there are a number of comments in the video aboutE > Oracle 9i and there were a few customers interested in seeing that.t  > Both are available on the web. >g > Warm Regards,  > Sueg > 5 > "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote in messagew5 news:<bl9jbh$9p0m0$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>...g: > > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> schreef in bericht6 > > news:gpEdb.1114$ab5.42609@news20.bellglobal.com... > > > 9 > > > "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote in message 9 > > > news:bl3tjh$7o071$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de...  > > >  > > > [snip] > > > J > > > > happened but handled it very well. It does prove that VMS is still very	 > >  much L > > > > alive, at least in this country. It also proved without a doubt that HP > >  istI > > > > backing VMS and that the OS does have a future. I've got to admit  that
 > >  sinceJ > > > > the dark days of Bob Palmer, let alone Compaq, I did not have much hope	 > >  that L > > > > VMS would ever live to be 30 years old but this symposium absolutely > >  removedL > > > > that doubt. VMS engineering is improving parts of the OS that hadn't	 > >  been # > > > > touched in the last decade.n > > >f > > > [snip] > > >-E > > > I came away with the exact same feeling after attending the VMSs	 Technicala' > > > Update seminar in Ottawa, Canada.: > > >vF > > > p.s. Did they talk about the good stuff happening at the Bank of Austria? > > >cD > > No, but it may have been mentioned on Friday. Can you elaborate?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:33:34 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>% Subject: Re: [5] Counter Googling :-(k4 Message-ID: <1031001012758.403A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Russell Wallace wrote:  . > On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:43:59 -0400, JF Mezei$ > <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: > P > >Just like serious corporations fairly quickly learned that they couldn't SPAMQ > >newsgroups or email, I think that serious corporations will quickly learn that@M > >they can't google their customers. If I checked into a hotel and it becameoM > >obvious that they had done their research about me, I would feel extremelytM > >ucomfortable. Why did they want to know so much about me ? I'd say that ita* > >would be a form of invasion of privacy. > G > I disagree that it's an invasion of privacy. Google isn't like hiringrA > a detective - it can only find _public_ information. If there'snG > information about you that you regard as private, why did you make ite > publicly available online?  G JF didn't.  Other people did.  (Most of it was obviously false.  I havelC no idea if addresses, telephone numbers, names and addresses of hiso? family, etc. are or were correct or if they were invented too.)   E That of course is another huge problem with this.  There is no way ofu% knowing which information is correct.i   -- p John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:28:58 -04005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>i% Subject: RE: [5] Counter Googling :-(eQ Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D50199C07C@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>.  G It is implied by posting that what you say could theoretically be saved J forever. What gets me is that there is little proof of authenticity that II said what was attributed to me, either through the use of mail spoofs, or  mis-quoting.   -----Original Message-----2 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com] ) Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:33 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come% Subject: Re: [5] Counter Googling :-(b     Russell Wallace wrote:H > I disagree that it's an invasion of privacy. Google isn't like hiring B > a detective - it can only find _public_ information. If there's H > information about you that you regard as private, why did you make it  > publicly available online?  F When I post in newsgroups, I don't specifically agree that my posts beF archived forever. When I posted prior to the formation of google (dejaC news), I had no idea that my posts would be archived in the future.n  C Ethically, when someone uses telephone books to find my address and I telephone number to contact me, it si proper use of that information. ButII when someone does the same and posts that information in newsgroups alongiJ with all sorts of fabulated stories, that is invasion of privacy. It isn'tG so much the information, it so why you seek it and what you do with it.t  J The problem is that inexperienced people will do a search an see all sortsG of posts and not really ask to see full headers to try to see if it wasP legitimate or not.  K google is like a credit agency that lets anyone add any information to yourwD file, except you have no control over it and it is archived forever.  ) -----------------------------------------i The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of  the original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions.m   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.544 ************************