1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 02 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 546       Contents: RE: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Analyze system crash 7.3-1 Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1* Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 - more info* Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 - more info* Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 - more info& Andrew Harrison (was: Fee Based Email) Re: Anonymous FTP configuration  Re: Anonymous FTP configuration 2 Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create?2 Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create?@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) Re: Graphics card for AS1000A 6 RE: How can I tell my Tomcat 2.1 upgrade did anything?7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." 7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." 7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." 7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." 7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." 7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."  Is the INFO-VAX still alive 9 ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems = Re: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems  Re: Joining Encompass 4 Re: map port 21 from XP gateway to VMS intranet box? mgftp 	 Re: mgftp  Re: mgftp - fixed with hgftp1 Re: OT: Is Linux Really More Secure Than Windows? 7 Re: Preserving decwindows session through disconnection D Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programD Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programD Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programD Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programD Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ? rack mounting an alpha 4100  Re: rack mounting an alpha 4100  Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats!# RMS provide API to directory files? ' Re: RMS provide API to directory files? ; Re: rx2600 OpenVMS I64 porting server (was: affordable VMS) ; Re: rx2600 OpenVMS I64 porting server (was: affordable VMS)  Re: shadowing the system disk  Re: shadowing the system disk  Re: shadowing the system disk  Re: shadowing the system disk  sys$qiow Re: sys$qiow Re: sys$qiow Re: sys$qiow Re: sys$qiow% Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL  Re: Virtul Tape Driver Re: VMS system on the web 2 Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands) want to buy GS80 or any ..% Re: [ZIP V2.3] Bad error/return codes   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:02:31 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>   Subject: RE: AMD64 sales figuresR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0D8819@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=203 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=20   > Sent: October 1, 2003 11:06 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >>-----Original Message-----. > >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=202 > >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]$ > >>Sent: September 29, 2003 4:55 AM > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > >> > >>Main, Kerry wrote: > >>  > >>>>-----Original Message-----0 > >>>>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=204 > >>>>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]' > >>>>Sent: September 26, 2003 12:11 PM  > >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > >>>> > >>>>Greg Cagle wrote:  > >>>> > >>>>/ > >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  > >>>>>  > >>>>>  > >>>>>  > >>>>> B > >>>>>>IA64 high quality, tell that to the customers who Intel=20 > suggested=20B > >>>>>>should clock their 1000 GHz units at 800 MHz to avoid data > >>>>>  > >>>>integrity  > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>problems.  > >>>>>  > >>>>> + > >>>>>1) Do you have a reference for this?  > >>>>> @ > >>>>>2) If I were you I wouldn't be bringing up data integrity > >>>>>  problems. > >>>>) > >>>>If I were you I wouldn't have asked  > >>>>5 > >>>>http://www.computerweekly.com/Article121736.htm  > >>>>
 > >>>>Regards  > >>>>Andrew Harrison  > >>>> > >>>> > >>>  > >>> 4 > >>>And if I were you, I'd remember the old phrase:  > >>>"those in glass houses ..." > >>>  > >>J > >>Kerry since you now work for HP ask one of your new collegues about=20< > >>the HP K series, or the memory controllers in the N4000. > >>= > >>You will find that the glass house you are in has just=20  > enlarged a bit.  > >> > >>Regards  > >>Andrew Harrison  > >> > >=20 > >=20 > > Andrew,  > >=20I > > Hey, I'm not saying all HP HW is perfect. That's not the issue, so=20  > > don't change the subject.  > >=20I > > The references on the Sun site that I provided illustrate *recent*=20 9 > > examples of Sun HW causing data corruption, so you=20  > highlighting issues=20A > > in IA64 is a great example of those living in glass houses=20  > should not=20  > > throw stones.  > > B > I am a little supprised you pitched in at all, if the article=20= > doesn't mention a problem with HP/itanium it refers to a=20  > problem with IBM/Itanium.  >=20= > Is your sharp reaction because the problem did affect HP=20  > systems as well ?  >=20	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >=20  / [re-post as I had strange email return on this]   ( Hey - quit trying to change the subject.  D I pointed out that those in glass houses should not throw stones - IH really have no idea whether it does or does not apply to HP or IBM Intel based platforms.=20   H The fact is that, as the following Sun url indicates, Sun is having someE data corruption difficulties with some of its systems as well, so Sun E criticizing Intel for whatever HW issues it might be having is likely  not a good thing to do.   A http://sunsolve.sun.com/pub-cgi/retrieve.pl?doc=3Dfsalert%2F55081  Sun Alert ID: 55081 H Synopsis: How to Detect Very Rare (1:83,000) UltraSPARC III FPU Failures Category: Data Loss / Product: CPU, UltraSPARC III, UltraSPARC III CU  BugIDs: 4709936, 4803413 Avoidance: Upgrade State: Resolved E Date Released: 19-May-2003, 06-Aug-2003 Date Closed: 19-May-2003 Date " Modified: 24-Jun-2003, 06-Aug-2003   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:49:02 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures* Message-ID: <3F7C1EBE.10004@tsoft-inc.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   >  >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 1 >>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]    >>Sent: October 1, 2003 11:06 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >> >>Main, Kerry wrote: >> >>>>-----Original Message-----, >>>>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 2 >>>>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]$ >>>>Sent: September 29, 2003 4:55 AM >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >>>> >>>>Main, Kerry wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>>>>-----Original Message-----. >>>>>>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 4 >>>>>>[mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]' >>>>>>Sent: September 26, 2003 12:11 PM  >>>>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >>>>>> >>>>>>Greg Cagle wrote:  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>/ >>>>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >>>>>>>  >>>>>>>  >>>>>>>  >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> @ >>>>>>>>IA64 high quality, tell that to the customers who Intel  >>>>>>>> >>suggested  >>B >>>>>>>>should clock their 1000 GHz units at 800 MHz to avoid data >>>>>>>> >>>>>>integrity  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>problems.  >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> + >>>>>>>1) Do you have a reference for this?  >>>>>>> @ >>>>>>>2) If I were you I wouldn't be bringing up data integrity >>>>>>> problems.  >>>>>>> ) >>>>>>If I were you I wouldn't have asked  >>>>>>5 >>>>>>http://www.computerweekly.com/Article121736.htm  >>>>>>
 >>>>>>Regards  >>>>>>Andrew Harrison  >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> 4 >>>>>And if I were you, I'd remember the old phrase:  >>>>>"those in glass houses ..." >>>>>  >>>>> H >>>>Kerry since you now work for HP ask one of your new collegues about < >>>>the HP K series, or the memory controllers in the N4000. >>>>; >>>>You will find that the glass house you are in has just   >>>> >>enlarged a bit.  >> >>>>Regards  >>>>Andrew Harrison  >>>> >>>> >>> 
 >>>Andrew, >>> F >>>Hey, I'm not saying all HP HW is perfect. That's not the issue, so  >>>don't change the subject. >>> F >>>The references on the Sun site that I provided illustrate *recent* 6 >>>examples of Sun HW causing data corruption, so you  >>>  >>highlighting issues  >>> >>>in IA64 is a great example of those living in glass houses  >>> 
 >>should not   >> >>>throw stones. >>>  >>> @ >>I am a little supprised you pitched in at all, if the article ; >>doesn't mention a problem with HP/itanium it refers to a   >>problem with IBM/Itanium.  >>; >>Is your sharp reaction because the problem did affect HP   >>systems as well ?  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >> >> > 1 > [re-post as I had strange email return on this]  > * > Hey - quit trying to change the subject. > F > I pointed out that those in glass houses should not throw stones - IJ > really have no idea whether it does or does not apply to HP or IBM Intel > based platforms.   > J > The fact is that, as the following Sun url indicates, Sun is having someG > data corruption difficulties with some of its systems as well, so Sun G > criticizing Intel for whatever HW issues it might be having is likely  > not a good thing to do.  > A > http://sunsolve.sun.com/pub-cgi/retrieve.pl?doc=fsalert%2F55081  > Sun Alert ID: 55081 J > Synopsis: How to Detect Very Rare (1:83,000) UltraSPARC III FPU Failures > Category: Data Loss 1 > Product: CPU, UltraSPARC III, UltraSPARC III CU  > BugIDs: 4709936, 4803413 > Avoidance: Upgrade > State: Resolved G > Date Released: 19-May-2003, 06-Aug-2003 Date Closed: 19-May-2003 Date $ > Modified: 24-Jun-2003, 06-Aug-2003 > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . > (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)  >  >  >    Nice pissing contest.   H However, it really doesn't matter.  What has been forecast by some, and 9 downplayed by others, appears to now be becoming reality.    ------------------------------- ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11781   . Why Intel's Prescott will use AMD64 extensions  P ONE OF THE the biggest stories out of the AMD launch comes not from AMD itself, P but from Intel, or at least about Intel. Since we told you about Prescott being M 64 bit last week (see here), the burning question in everyone's mind is what  L instruction set will they use? Would it be Itanic, AMD64, something new and Q different, or one changed just enough to be incompatible like SSE and 3DNow were.   Q If you think Intel would eat its own shoes before it adopted AMD64, guess again,  P it will be compatible with AMD64. If you doubt this, think about one thing, why Q this is happening. It is not Intel's doing, not by a long shot. While it may use  Q a different name, like the old x86-64, or even Extended x86, it will run all the  / software that AMD does. Mmmmm, shoes are tasty.   Q So, why is this again? Simple, MS. Microsoft will not support a different 64 bit  O platform, and frankly I don't blame it, it costs a lot of money to do that. MS  P gave Intel the choice, support AMD's instruction set, or do without Windows. MS  won that battle pretty handily. ! ---------------------------------   P So if the above is accurate then I'm still asking, who besides HP will be using O IA-64?  Dell?  No way, they sell windoz boxes.  Think they'll sell 2 different   64 bit architechtures?  N Taking windoz boxes out of the picture, what's left for IA-64?  Not much, and D definitely no volume.  Can you say low volume, high cost, niche CPU?  Q As for those Alpha designers hired by Intel, when the competition with AMD heats  N up, guess which architecture will get priority?  Sure won't be the low volume 3 already spent billions on not used by anyone IA-64.   P All the arguments for killing Alpha, except for one, once again are nothing but O BS.  The one valid argument, which Compaq would never admit, is that they just  & didn't want to be in the CPU business.  J The concept that after the IA-64 port was complete VMS would be much more M generic and easily ported to other CPUs isn't as helpful as many would wish.  Q I've been told, by someone who will remain nameless but is in a position to give  K an authorative opinion, that Opteron isn't any/much better than IA-32 with   respect to a port of VMS.   O Wonder how long EV7 can be kept competitive?  Wonder which customers will stay  L committed to a declared dead product?  Wonder how the Robs of the world who , bought into the IA-64 BS will spin this one?   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:10:15 +0200; From: "bernard schluep" <bernard.schluep_nospam@azisoft.ch> # Subject: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 * Message-ID: <blh86l$1e8$1@rex.ip-plus.net>   Hi, ' It is probably a basic question, but... 5 How can I analyze a system crash with OpenVMS 7.3-1 ?  What is the tool ?1 I knew analyze/crash, but it is no more possible. 5 I think it is now DECevent, but I think I need a pak.  Thanks for your help Bernard    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:37:27 GMT ) From: "P.Lj" <plj@NOSPbyron.ext.telia.se> ' Subject: Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 @ Message-ID: <Xns94089EF047C4Bplj69byronextteliase@195.67.237.51>  ? "bernard schluep" <bernard.schluep_nospam@azisoft.ch> wrote in  " news:blh86l$1e8$1@rex.ip-plus.net:   > Hi, ) > It is probably a basic question, but... 7 > How can I analyze a system crash with OpenVMS 7.3-1 ?  > What is the tool ?3 > I knew analyze/crash, but it is no more possible. 7 > I think it is now DECevent, but I think I need a pak.  > Thanks for your help	 > Bernard  >  >  >  >  >    You should be able to do a  $ $ analy/crash sys$system:sysdump.dmp on a VMS 7.3-1 system.   But if you get a: %  $ analy/crash sys$system:sysdump.dmp E %SDA-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]SYSDUMP.DMP; as input  -RMS-E-FNF, file not found    G If there's a DUMP_DEV set at console level (SRM) you should be able to   get  it by:' $ write sys$output f$getenv("DUMP_DEV")  scsi 0 0 0 6 600 ef00 10201077  ( and read that backwards i.e DKA600 here.  ? and then get the right systemroot if it's a clustered system...   - $ analy/crash dka600:[sys0.sysexe]sysdump.dmp   ' OpenVMS (TM) Alpha system dump analyzer 2 ...analyzing a compressed selective memory dump...     Crashdump Summary Information:  -----------------------------* Crash Time:        17-NOV-2002 00:01:01.01; Bugcheck Type:     INVEXCEPTN, Exception while above ASTDEL $ Node:              xxxxxx  (Cluster)) CPU Type:          AlphaServer 8400 5/625  VMS Version:       V7.3-1    Current Process:   ECP_POLL G Current Image:     $2$DKA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]ECP$COLLECT.EXE;3 8 Failing PC:        FFFFFFFF.E9D283C8    ECP$DRIVER+083C8$ Failing PS:        1C000000.00000800> Module:            ECP$DRIVER    (Link Date/Time: 15-NOV-2002  16:53:45.82) Offset:            000083C8   * Boot Time:         16-NOV-2002 00:06:24.00* System Uptime:               0 23:54:37.01 Crash/Primary CPU: 06/00 System/CPU Type:   0C05  Saved Processes:   75 ' Pagesize:          8 KByte (8192 bytes) @ Physical Memory:   10240 MByte (1310720 PFNs, contiguous memory)   Press RETURN for more.   etc....      >>>^P.Lj   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:00:15 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> ' Subject: Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 2 Message-ID: <b0t8P1wJbGwyBg+Zu2wbN=J42ZW4@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:10:15 +0200, "bernard schluep"* <bernard.schluep_nospam@azisoft.ch> wrote:   >Hi,( >It is probably a basic question, but...6 >How can I analyze a system crash with OpenVMS 7.3-1 ? >What is the tool ? 2 >I knew analyze/crash, but it is no more possible.6 >I think it is now DECevent, but I think I need a pak. >Thanks for your help  >Bernard >   1 ANALYZE/CRASH is still the tool to analyze system  crashes.   David R. Beatty    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:20:11 +0200; From: "bernard schluep" <bernard.schluep_nospam@azisoft.ch> 3 Subject: Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 - more info * Message-ID: <blhc9q$23i$1@rex.ip-plus.net>  4 "P.Lj" <plj@NOSPbyron.ext.telia.se> wrote in message: news:Xns94089EF047C4Bplj69byronextteliase@195.67.237.51...@ > "bernard schluep" <bernard.schluep_nospam@azisoft.ch> wrote in$ > news:blh86l$1e8$1@rex.ip-plus.net: >  > > Hi, + > > It is probably a basic question, but... 9 > > How can I analyze a system crash with OpenVMS 7.3-1 ?  > > What is the tool ?5 > > I knew analyze/crash, but it is no more possible. 9 > > I think it is now DECevent, but I think I need a pak.  > > Thanks for your help > > Bernard  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  > You should be able to do a& > $ analy/crash sys$system:sysdump.dmp > on a VMS 7.3-1 system. >  > But if you get a: ' >  $ analy/crash sys$system:sysdump.dmp G > %SDA-F-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]SYSDUMP.DMP; as input  > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found >  > H > If there's a DUMP_DEV set at console level (SRM) you should be able to > get  > it by:) > $ write sys$output f$getenv("DUMP_DEV")   > scsi 0 0 0 6 600 ef00 10201077 > * > and read that backwards i.e DKA600 here. > A > and then get the right systemroot if it's a clustered system...  > / > $ analy/crash dka600:[sys0.sysexe]sysdump.dmp  > ) > OpenVMS (TM) Alpha system dump analyzer 4 > ...analyzing a compressed selective memory dump... >  >   > Crashdump Summary Information:  > ------------------------------, > Crash Time:        17-NOV-2002 00:01:01.01= > Bugcheck Type:     INVEXCEPTN, Exception while above ASTDEL & > Node:              xxxxxx  (Cluster)+ > CPU Type:          AlphaServer 8400 5/625  > VMS Version:       V7.3-1  > Current Process:   ECP_POLL I > Current Image:     $2$DKA100:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]ECP$COLLECT.EXE;3 : > Failing PC:        FFFFFFFF.E9D283C8    ECP$DRIVER+083C8& > Failing PS:        1C000000.00000800? > Module:            ECP$DRIVER    (Link Date/Time: 15-NOV-2002  > 16:53:45.82) > Offset:            000083C8  > , > Boot Time:         16-NOV-2002 00:06:24.00, > System Uptime:               0 23:54:37.01 > Crash/Primary CPU: 06/00 > System/CPU Type:   0C05  > Saved Processes:   75 ) > Pagesize:          8 KByte (8192 bytes) B > Physical Memory:   10240 MByte (1310720 PFNs, contiguous memory) >  > Press RETURN for more. > 	 > etc....  >  > 
 > >>>^P.Lj >   E My system stop during a REXEC and I need Halt it and reboot it again. A Perhaps the first question is how to produce a dump in this case.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:52:58 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>3 Subject: Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 - more info + Message-ID: <blhe4a$idu@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   F "bernard schluep" <bernard.schluep_nospam@azisoft.ch> wrote in message$ news:blhc9q$23i$1@rex.ip-plus.net...  G > My system stop during a REXEC and I need Halt it and reboot it again. C > Perhaps the first question is how to produce a dump in this case.   C Most Alphas support CRASH  as a console command. As it is a console : firmware rather than a VMS command, there is some variety.  7 See the system manager's manual and the hardware guide: F http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/72final/6017/6017pro_011.html#perf_crash   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:52:16 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>3 Subject: Re: Analyze system crash 7.3-1 - more info 8 Message-ID: <iulonvo9c2legv6plk1foshsd5im1971a3@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:20:11 +0200, "bernard schluep"* <bernard.schluep_nospam@azisoft.ch> wrote:     >> > F >My system stop during a REXEC and I need Halt it and reboot it again.B >Perhaps the first question is how to produce a dump in this case. >   - If it's an alpha, when you halt it, you type     >> CRASH<cr>  3 This should take a crash dump to your defined dump.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 10:26:45 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) / Subject: Andrew Harrison (was: Fee Based Email) 3 Message-ID: <1m8u9QMIzkq5@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <blhd71$gh5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  	 > rubbish   G Sometimes there is a defining moment that causes a change in procedure. F And sometimes it causes one to realize it is a change that should have been made long ago.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 14:59:35 GMT 6 From: DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis)( Subject: Re: Anonymous FTP configuration: Message-ID: <blhegn$br0$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  N In article <M%peb.6054$vE1.176@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman  writes:  ; >In article <bjsruq$9e9$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, : > DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) writes: >:A >:  Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3 5 >:  on a AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.2-1  >:F >:	Should TCPIP$FTP_ANONYMOUS_DIRECTORY be defined as a search list or >:a comma-separated string?  > 7 >  $ define/system/exec TCPIP$FTP_ANONYMOUS_DIRECTORY - + >      top:[000000...], bottom:[spin...], - 1 >      charmed:[boson...], strange:[000000...], - 
 >      ... > E >  You can access the [anonymous] directory regardless of the setting E >  of the logical name.  (If you don't want that, you'll want to take # >  steps to protect the directory.)  > D >  Various of the processing and logical names are documented in theE >  Anonymous section of the TCP/IP Services Management manual chapter  >  on the FTP Server.  > J >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6526/6526pro_028.html#anon_ftp_sect  @ 	In general, everything works great from a bona fide FTP client.J A lot of functionality is broken through most common Web browsers, though.L IE completely screws up the file/folder list, and Netscape broswers all seemK to have some problem browsing folder paths.  (Netscape v4.x browsers are OK F with the [ANONYMOUS...] tree, but can't access content provided by theG TCPIP$FTP_ANONYMOUS_DIRECTORY logical name.  Netscape 7.1 can't seem to K handle any path which doesn't include a specific file.)  I would guess that I this is all due to browser-specific behavior.  Is there any chance that a E mechanism for generating *NIX-style file/folder listings from the FTP  server might be added?   >  > O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >    For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- F >        Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com >    Regards, Mike --K              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSE N   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingJ            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityJ http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 18:17:45 +0200 ' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) ( Subject: Re: Anonymous FTP configuration+ Message-ID: <fXCYmPEH8iLt@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   s In article <blhegn$br0$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) writes:     K > this is all due to browser-specific behavior.  Is there any chance that a G > mechanism for generating *NIX-style file/folder listings from the FTP  > server might be added?   , The people porting Mozilla did a great job:     Mozilla 1.5rc2 * handles FTP directory listings correctly !    --  >    Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Muenchen   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:51:48 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>; Subject: Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? 8 Message-ID: <b4ionvobsmi9ojuoerhpmdmk2mhrtk3743@4ax.com>  7 On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:06:22 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote: 	 >> [snip] 3 >> One of the biggest benefits of EVA, imho, [snip]  >>  > >> The impact depends on each specific environment, of course. > H >I still haven't even seen an EVA (probably won't unless I can go to theG >bootcamp in November), I've only read about them here in the group and  >on-line at hp's website.  > G >So far, it all seems to add a lot of questionably necessary complexity F >for very little improvement. Seems to me one can do better laying outI >RAIDsets on HSxes one's self and avoid some of the pitfalls mentioned by  >yourself and other posters.    B Actually, in general it's quite the opposite.  The EVA manages theH complexity for you, and all you need to do is serve out LUNs of whateverI size you need.  It virtually eliminates the manual performance management J and movement of data for applications/databases.  All I/O is automaticallyI spread among the spindles in the group, and the EVA manages it all behind A the scenes (including eliminating any hotspots that may appear) -  throughput is fantastic.  & >Add to that the fact the HSxes can beD >commanded in batch jobs via HSDSA or HSZPAD$SCSITERM and it seems a >negative gain.   E EVAs can also be commanded via batch jobs.  There's Business Copy EVA G licensed by #TB you want to snapshot/snapclone.  And there's $500 media 1 price for CDs that cover all supported platforms.   C There's also SSSU which is a commandline interface to the managment D appliance to manage the EVA storage configuration.  I've written VMSF scripts using this to create snapshots (didn't I send you the zip file previously on this?)   > H >Are there any advantages to EVA that can't be realized by judicious use >of the preceding technologies?   > Depends.  The EVA significantly reduces costs for managing andJ administering storage.  SCSI-based storage can have at maximum 6 drives inD the RAID-5 set (12 in RAID-1) and you have to be very careful of anyF sparing that's done to prevent multiple spindles in the same SCSI bus.K Additionally, in the SCSI arrays, if you have a performance bottleneck on a G lun, you have to manually create new RAIDsets and present the LUNs, and K then move data.  With the EVA, you merely throw new spindles into the array > and add them to the group (1 minute of work), and away you go.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:54:53 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>; Subject: Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? 8 Message-ID: <fhionvsomc3532kf842blov8j0k1dhk4cn@4ax.com>  J On 1 Oct 2003 02:19:53 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:     > 7 >	So I disagree with the single pool / high performance ? >	best practice below if for no other reason than that LUN that > >	is hammering the EVA hard enough to warrant a single pool of: >	168 disks is most likely mythical (maybe single pool for? >	high performance if you have < 100 drives? and at that do you = >	REALLY think you have or will have a LUN that hot to hammer + >	100 drives to saturation with Random IO?)  >   D Note that the performance advantage is also an aggregate performanceI advantage - i.e., ALL your san-based systems use LUNs from the same pool. G those 168 disk drives are serving LUNs to dozens of systems.  This is a K HUGE savings in time because you don't have to manage these all separately. K And your response time degrades MUCH, MUCH more linearly, and is alleviated F much, much more simply (i.e., just adding more spindles to the group).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:43:02 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <blgoen$7ug$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Don Sykes wrote: >  > Dean Woodward wrote: > H >>Money, money, money. Tell me, people, who gets to keep all this money? >  > I > In the potocol I'm proposing here, the answer is the end user recipient H > and some for the user's ESP. Further, there isn't necessarily all thatD > much. Most people would allow mail from friends and assocciates toF > bypass Email charges and only charge for mail from unknown users. InD > addition, depending on the implementation, between the ESP and theI > recipient, they could credit back a fee if it was charged to a new user " > they wanted to communicate with. > G > It also appears from comments that I need to describe the interaction F > between the ESP and the end recipient. While this in not part of theJ > protocol I'm proposing, it seems the lack of implementation examples has  > led to some misunderstandings. >     C Why not introduce a micro-charging mechanism which is refundable if B the recipient accepts the email and which isn't if it the email isG rejected either by a SPAM filter at the recipients ISP or by recipient.   @ Since the charge would be payable by the senders ISP there would: be no incentive on the recipient to mark non SPAM as SPAM.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 07:30:51 GMT < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <blgk7b$5o4$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  b In article <20031001100929.58f66406.mathog@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: >On 30 Sep 2003 21:27:55 GMT> >gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) wrote: >  > M >> But if you cheat billing systems, I'm sure there will be a lot more effort P >> everywhere to punish you which in turn makes it more likely that you try such >> attempts. > P >Which brings us back to the megamailserver concept.  Imagine that ICANN blessesM >several top level mail services.  These charge epostage (probably somebody's I >trademark, sorry) to accept email.  Something other than SMTP is used to N >deliver mail to these machines, but they send it out to its final destinationM >via SMTP.  (Or you could read it there too, and just be done with SMTP once  K >and for all.)  On your local server you allow incoming SMTP mail only from + >your local machines and these megaservers.   M While I appreciate the concept, I see a problem implementing it. If we assume N someone builds the megaserver and I decide I'll allow unknown e-mail only fromM the megaserver, will all the others then use this megaserver to send me mail? H If you think this is likely, then we should immediately start a business building up the megaserver.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de3  D-79011  Freiburg, Germany79                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmla   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 07:35:09 GMTe< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)f0 Message-ID: <blgkfd$5o4$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  V In article <3F7B2289.6F6635B6@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >Christoph Gartmann wrote:N >> replies to mailing lists. The one or two messages that I post per day would$ >> cost me 0.01 $ or so. No problem. >rL >If you have your own SMTP server, it isn't just the 2 messages you send per) >day, but also the 2 you receive per day.r  N No, I pay onle for the stuff I send. The things that I receive are paid by the sender.p  H >and you'll need the whole billing infrastructure to handle this, and inI >countries where there is a GST/VAT, you'll need to figure out if the taxe= >applies (GST/VAT applies to domestic sales, not to exports).a  M No, I this is all done locally. There is no billing scheme between the sender O and the recipient of a mail. It is more like a written letter. In order to haverJ it routed the sender buys a stamp and doesn't have to bother how US postalO service exchanges money with Deutsche Post (don't even know if they really do).g   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    -- "E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452v  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot deu  D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlo   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 08:21:28 GMT < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)i0 Message-ID: <blgn68$5o4$4@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  V In article <3F7B44C9.9A9557D1@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:K >If you start charging for mail that goes through port 25, then people willi7 >develop an alternative to mail, using some other port.e  K Of course you are free to send e-mail via VPNs or whatever. No problem with J that. All these cases require a mutual consent, so no chance for spammers.O Even if many people who don't like to be billed will start a new mail protocol,sH the question is, whether the majority will follow. If you have to chooseM betweem the traditional SMTP and new-MTP, the first one almost spam-free, the / latter in a condition like today, no problem...n   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanne   -- tE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany!9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 08:15:35 GMTf< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)s0 Message-ID: <blgmr7$5o4$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  J In article <blfafd$acd$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:B >I think you are misunderstanding when I say it's not hierachical.P >As I understand it your system requires monitoring by the "top level" companies >for packets containing  >e ><CR>.<CR> directed to port 25 >A > J >This won't work because ALL packets in a virtual connection will not passI >through one route across the internet. The top level comapany - call it eQ >international net company A - sees this packet. If you looked through it's logs ]F >you might easily find that it has never seen any of the other packetsO >associated with this virtual connection. All the other packets could have goneKM >through international net company B. This final packet has instead gone this7N >route because in the last second the routers have dynamically determined that >that is the better route. >wM >International net company A has no context for this packet. Only the sending]N >and receiving systems have full knowledge of the current state of the virtual >connection.  L International net company A doesn't need to have the context (if we use thisL technical approach to do the accouting). Internation net company A does knowH where the packet entered their network and will bill the company at that interface, link or line.  P >A million packets like this one could be injected into the network at any pointN >and would dutifully make their way to the destination system. The destinationH >system would then reject them because it hadn't set up any such virtualI >connection - hell it might not even be running a mail server on port 25.>  J No problem, the packet had entered the net at a point and this point is toJ charge. Note, this is in case of International net company A in most casesL not the originator of the packet, it is some other network company. But thisK company will then bill the site where the packet entered its network and so>3 forth until the original originator is billed, too.u   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann.   -- >E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452c  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de>  D-79011  Freiburg, Germany>9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmls   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 07:42:18 -0500r; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)eI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)e3 Message-ID: <JW4Orw8jGzRn@eisner.encompasserve.org>t   In article <blgoen$7ug$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > E > Why not introduce a micro-charging mechanism which is refundable if D > the recipient accepts the email and which isn't if it the email isI > rejected either by a SPAM filter at the recipients ISP or by recipient.g  F    Because I won't let you put software on my system to detect whether    I accepted the email.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:22:19 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)l0 Message-ID: <blh8qb$duv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <blgoen$7ug$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > E >>Why not introduce a micro-charging mechanism which is refundable ifeD >>the recipient accepts the email and which isn't if it the email isI >>rejected either by a SPAM filter at the recipients ISP or by recipient.  >  > H >    Because I won't let you put software on my system to detect whether >    I accepted the email. > B You have a client now that supports IMAP or whatever protocol thatB you use to talk to your message store so you already have software( on your system so whats the difference ?   Regards0 Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 09:26:52 -0500r- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)aI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)e3 Message-ID: <saj9GusWqS4s@eisner.encompasserve.org>-   In article <blh8qb$duv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  D > You have a client now that supports IMAP or whatever protocol thatD > you use to talk to your message store so you already have software* > on your system so whats the difference ?  N Not on VMS (which is the operating system under discussion in this newsgroup).   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:54:19 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)n) Message-ID: <blh75m$t7p$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>t  o In article <blgmr7$5o4$3@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:nK >In article <blfafd$acd$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:MC >>I think you are misunderstanding when I say it's not hierachical.iQ >>As I understand it your system requires monitoring by the "top level" companiesn >>for packets containing . >> >><CR>.<CR> directed to port 250 >> >>K >>This won't work because ALL packets in a virtual connection will not pass>J >>through one route across the internet. The top level comapany - call it R >>international net company A - sees this packet. If you looked through it's logs G >>you might easily find that it has never seen any of the other packetskP >>associated with this virtual connection. All the other packets could have goneN >>through international net company B. This final packet has instead gone thisO >>route because in the last second the routers have dynamically determined thatu >>that is the better route.b >>N >>International net company A has no context for this packet. Only the sendingO >>and receiving systems have full knowledge of the current state of the virtualr
 >>connection.  >>M >International net company A doesn't need to have the context (if we use this"M >technical approach to do the accouting). Internation net company A does know I >where the packet entered their network and will bill the company at thatn >interface, link or line.> >>Q >>A million packets like this one could be injected into the network at any point O >>and would dutifully make their way to the destination system. The destinationHI >>system would then reject them because it hadn't set up any such virtualtJ >>connection - hell it might not even be running a mail server on port 25. >lK >No problem, the packet had entered the net at a point and this point is to>K >charge. Note, this is in case of International net company A in most cases M >not the originator of the packet, it is some other network company. But thismL >company will then bill the site where the packet entered its network and so4 >forth until the original originator is billed, too. >hK So your not charging for mail at all. Your just adding an extra premium on PI traffic charges for shipping a particular type of packet - whether it is  L part of a valid transaction, lost packet - about to be dropped when it's TTLJ runs out, retransmitted packet because it didn't arrive within the timeout period etc etcL You can get back maybe as far as the ISP on that basis. The ISP would have a6 hell of a job charging individual users on that basis.F Individual user sent a mail message is understandable to the end user.N Individual sent a packet - which then had to be retransmitted - so you pay for two mail messages isn't.  D So to cover itself the ISP increases it's monthly connection charge.K The end user sees no difference - this has no effect on SPAM just increasess( connection charges up and down the line.  P  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University        	 >Regards,C >   Christoph Gartmann >, >-- F > Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 > ImmunbiologieaJ > Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de > D-79011  Freiburg, Germany: >               http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:37:21 +0100OO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>iI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)b0 Message-ID: <blhd71$gh5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article <blh8qb$duv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  > D >>You have a client now that supports IMAP or whatever protocol thatD >>you use to talk to your message store so you already have software* >>on your system so whats the difference ? >  > P > Not on VMS (which is the operating system under discussion in this newsgroup).       rubbishr   Mozilla has an IMAP client   Regardso Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 12:25:24 GMTr< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)I0 Message-ID: <blh5fk$ch5$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   In article <blgoen$7ug$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:D >Why not introduce a micro-charging mechanism which is refundable ifC >the recipient accepts the email and which isn't if it the email is H >rejected either by a SPAM filter at the recipients ISP or by recipient.  L While the principle is good it is extremely difficult to implement. Here youJ will need a huge central clearing facility that does business with all the countries in the world :-(  A >Since the charge would be payable by the senders ISP there wouldh; >be no incentive on the recipient to mark non SPAM as SPAM.i  I This is the case with every principle that charges the sender and not theeB recipient. With my approach the sender will be charged indirectly.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannd   -- eE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452w  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot deo  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyt9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:06:56 GMTt' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>UI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)b+ Message-ID: <3F7C5BC7.8F591E88@pacbell.net>h   JF Mezei wrote:l >  > Don Sykes wrote:K > > In the potocol I'm proposing here, the answer is the end user recipientt  > > and some for the user's ESP. > L > The next get rick scam: subscribe to as many  mailing lists as you can and > then get tons of money.e > M > As a result of such a policy, do you think HP would agree to send emails todO > notify of new patches to anyone but those who have paid expensive contracts ?pH > Multiply this for every lartge corporation that has seen the values of > communicating to its users.e  F As I've tried to explain before a fee is NOT REQUIRED. It is optional,F depending on whatever factors you want to implement. If I'm interestedG in getting mail from HP, I just modify my profile with my ESP to say no  fee for *@hp.com.b   -- s   Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Franciscos   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:17:39 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>pI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) + Message-ID: <3F7C5E49.79BBC2C6@pacbell.net>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > Don Sykes wrote: > >- > > Dean Woodward wrote: > >cJ > >>Money, money, money. Tell me, people, who gets to keep all this money? > >a > >sK > > In the potocol I'm proposing here, the answer is the end user recipient2J > > and some for the user's ESP. Further, there isn't necessarily all thatF > > much. Most people would allow mail from friends and assocciates toH > > bypass Email charges and only charge for mail from unknown users. InF > > addition, depending on the implementation, between the ESP and theK > > recipient, they could credit back a fee if it was charged to a new usery$ > > they wanted to communicate with. > > I > > It also appears from comments that I need to describe the interactionSH > > between the ESP and the end recipient. While this in not part of theL > > protocol I'm proposing, it seems the lack of implementation examples has" > > led to some misunderstandings. > >a > E > Why not introduce a micro-charging mechanism which is refundable if D > the recipient accepts the email and which isn't if it the email isI > rejected either by a SPAM filter at the recipients ISP or by recipient.s > C I've considered adding a similar refund mechanism to this idea. ThexH micro-charge (Digital's old millicent idea) may also work, but it soundsD like all emails would be tagged with this charge, which isn't reallyC necessary. I want free emails for friends, family & known customers:E without having to remember to reverse those charges. I'd also like to & set higher charges on some mail types.   --     Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco.   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:42:45 -0400& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>& Subject: Re: Graphics card for AS1000A/ Message-ID: <vno7eacknbev77@news.supernews.com>D   OK theni    " THE IC-PBXGK-BC WILL WORK with VMS
 No problem  7 I didn't see a "may work" any where in my response  ;0)2   DT    , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A26ADD.9C24A0B8@SendSpamHere.ORG...: > In article <vnje7t7ali6o8c@news.supernews.com>, "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:M! > >Try a permedia 2 graphics cardr > >   > >Our PN: IC-PBXGK-BC $149 each > >  > >DTj > >- > >- > >--  > >David B Turnera >  > Hi David,0 >1I > I'd actually like a card that will *work* in an AS1200/Digital Ultimatej > Workstation. >s > -- s2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >36 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:10:07 +0930: From: "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au>? Subject: RE: How can I tell my Tomcat 2.1 upgrade did anything?lP Message-ID: <07103702F27FD411ACA30000F8085452044FF760@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au>   Hi Alan,  D When I installed it, the http://node:8080/ link showed Tomcat 4.1.24 documentation.   Cheers,- Chris-   > -----Original Message------ > From: "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"b) > [mailto:winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]:& > Sent: Thursday, 2 October 2003 12:15 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$= > Subject: How can I tell my Tomcat 2.1 upgrade did anything?  >  >  > OpenVMS 7.3-1E
 > CSWS 1.3 > Tomcat 2.1 > = > Okay, so I backed up my [.jakarta] tree, then followed the s > installation@ > instructions in the release notes and used @apache$jakarta to  > remove mod_jk24 > from my CSWS config, did PRODUCT REMOVE CSWS_JAVA,< > left my ANT and WEBAPP directories intact and did PRODUCT  > INSTALL CSWS_JAVAo8 > (from a directory that only had 2.1 in it), then used  > apache$jakarta to  > add mod_jk2 back in. > > > Tomcat started, CSWS started, everything seems good - but I  > can't tell whetherH > I actually have a new Tomcat here.  File dates on .jars all seem to be= > 11-jun-2002; the examples page says Tomcat 4.0.4 while the , > product is supposedO= > to be 4.1.  (But this may just be a result of the examples   > jsp not having beenD
 > edited.) > ? > Do I really have Tomcat 4.1?  PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY is sure I r > have CSWS_JAVA > 2.1.  How can I tell?i > 	 > Thanks,0 > 	 > -- Alan  > -- e@ > ============================================================== > =================l2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU; >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   a > Phone:  650/926-3056@ >  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo  > Park CA   94025-@ > ============================================================== > =================p >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:26:18 +0100(O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>-@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."0 Message-ID: <blguga$a82$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:F > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bleq95$evj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > J >>So far no one has shown that Sun is assisting SCO directly or indirectly >>in its current actions >  > G > I'd call a financial contribution from Sun to SCO to the tune of $6.6:H > million, or 12% of SCO's total revenues, over the past 9 months, as atF > least "indirectly" helping SCO in its current actions.  Others might" > well call it "directly" helping. >  > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=more+on+sun+and+sco+group:comp.os.vms&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.os.vms&selm=cf15391e.0309221021.6deaf10%40posting.google.com&rnum=1     % So we have a licensing deal with SCO.h  , HP is contributing marketing dollars to SCO.  2 Linux users out there are buying SCO United Linux.  1 According to your test we are all responsible fort the SCO action.   4 Reposting a link to your previous allegation doesn't5 make it any more convincing, worrying in fact for you 5 because this is a tactic that Rob Young has tended tod6 use in the past and you don't want to go there do you.  9 So why are HP continuing to fund joint marketing programs 5 with SCO without wanting to appear to be doing so ???t  9 According to the Register article HP are giving SCO moneyt" and getting nothing in return, odd  = Are HP contributing to SCO's case, I don't know but given theh" basis of your innuendo do I care ?   regards- Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:32:27 +0100:O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>i@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."0 Message-ID: <blgurs$adt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Simon Clubley wrote: > In article <blerpl$fcq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Simon Clubley wrote: >>M >>>The other thing to bear in mind when reading my comments about Sun is thateN >>>I am suspicious of any company that would directly or indirectly assist SCO >>>in it's current actions.L >>>K >>E >>Now if I was a conspiracy theorist which I am not I would be asking1' >>HP a few searching questions as well.  >>4 >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33143.html >> >  > 6 > When I said any company Andrew, I meant any company. > L > If HP were funding SCO behind the scenes with new agreements after statingJ > a pro-Linux/anti-SCO position in public, then they would deserve as muchK > criticism as Sun is getting. (In fact, probably stronger because of theirc  > now anti-SCO public position.) > N > However, until I see solid evidence that they are doing this, I will believeN > that HP is indeed breaking it's connections to SCO, and I for one am pleased > to see them do that. >   C So you are prepared to convict Sun in your own eyes on the basis of$C innuendo despite Sun's infinitely better record of actually support F OpenSource initiatives with usefull donations and not just VP blather.  F At the same time you withhold judgement in HP's case despite a similarE level of quality of evidence and an almost unblemished record on HP'seF part of not doing anything usefull to support the OpenSource communityC with anything other than VP blather. Breaking connections BTW wouldnB be HP getting SCO to refund the money for the joint marketing that never happened.c  > Excellent, it nice to know where you stand on this even if the: reasons why are rather less easy to explain or understand.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 06:30:31 -0500aB From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."3 Message-ID: <jRJa8UHf84RZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>_   In article <blgurs$adt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > E > So you are prepared to convict Sun in your own eyes on the basis ofaE > innuendo despite Sun's infinitely better record of actually supportsH > OpenSource initiatives with usefull donations and not just VP blather. > H > At the same time you withhold judgement in HP's case despite a similarG > level of quality of evidence and an almost unblemished record on HP'slH > part of not doing anything usefull to support the OpenSource communityE > with anything other than VP blather. Breaking connections BTW wouldlD > be HP getting SCO to refund the money for the joint marketing that > never happened.- >   B Andrew, as I said before, I am not going to get involved in a longJ pointless debate with you, so I will just point out I don't convict on theI basis of innuendo, but facts, and that HP didn't get listed in SCO's lastf? 10-Q as providing a major source of income to SCO, but Sun did.   @ > Excellent, it nice to know where you stand on this even if the< > reasons why are rather less easy to explain or understand. >   J I think that my reasons are clear enough. However, I do recognise that you, and I are not going to agree on this matter.   Simon.   -- iB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 07:57:25 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."3 Message-ID: <FcBabHaRWaTj@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <bkupkb$o2c$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > 9 > My comiserations, not being able to tell the differencej; > between a technology licensing agreement and a conspiracye( > theory must be very difficult for you.  D    It is in fact difficult to see a "technology licensing agreement"@    when it isn't clear to the lawyers that SCO actually owns anyL    technology.  It _is_ quite clear the SCO doesn't know what, if anything, E    they got when they purchased "UNIX", or whatever it was called on SG    their receipt.  It _is_ also quite clear that only Microsoft and SCOtC    are willing to go along with the notion that SCO should get someV
    money.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:29:02 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>o@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."0 Message-ID: <blh96u$e0s$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <bkupkb$o2c$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > 9 >>My comiserations, not being able to tell the differencen; >>between a technology licensing agreement and a conspiracyo( >>theory must be very difficult for you. >  > F >    It is in fact difficult to see a "technology licensing agreement"B >    when it isn't clear to the lawyers that SCO actually owns anyN >    technology.  It _is_ quite clear the SCO doesn't know what, if anything, G >    they got when they purchased "UNIX", or whatever it was called on nI >    their receipt.  It _is_ also quite clear that only Microsoft and SCOiE >    are willing to go along with the notion that SCO should get somev >    money.  >     9 SCO's case relates to IP they they did/didn't aquire fromc Novell.v  8 Sun allready owns that IP base we aquired it from Novell; for a one off fee before the Novell/SCO deal(one reason whyc' you are unlikely to see SCO suing Sun).r  : SCO however have a wealth of code for x86 platfrom drivers8 etc which is theirs it wasn't part of the IP from Novell7 and it isn't part of the current suit against IBM whichs= seems to have extended at least from a withdrawl of licencing  standpoint to SGI as well.   Regardst Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:21:16 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>s@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."0 Message-ID: <blhc8t$g8h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Simon Clubley wrote: > In article <blgurs$adt$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > E >>So you are prepared to convict Sun in your own eyes on the basis of E >>innuendo despite Sun's infinitely better record of actually supporthH >>OpenSource initiatives with usefull donations and not just VP blather. >>H >>At the same time you withhold judgement in HP's case despite a similarG >>level of quality of evidence and an almost unblemished record on HP'seH >>part of not doing anything usefull to support the OpenSource communityE >>with anything other than VP blather. Breaking connections BTW would D >>be HP getting SCO to refund the money for the joint marketing that >>never happened.n >> >  > D > Andrew, as I said before, I am not going to get involved in a longL > pointless debate with you, so I will just point out I don't convict on theK > basis of innuendo, but facts, and that HP didn't get listed in SCO's lastiA > 10-Q as providing a major source of income to SCO, but Sun did.  >   A Unless you can prove that there is a link between Sun's licensingsB deal with SCO and SCO's court case with IBM then all you have left
 is innuendo !N   What else do you have ?s   Regardsd Andrew Harrison  > @ >>Excellent, it nice to know where you stand on this even if the< >>reasons why are rather less easy to explain or understand. >> >  > L > I think that my reasons are clear enough. However, I do recognise that you. > and I are not going to agree on this matter. >  > Simon. >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:41:09 +0200( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>$ Subject: Is the INFO-VAX still alive: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONAEGLCDAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  N since two days I don't get any Email from the INFO-VAX. So my question ist: is it still alive?,   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:38:38 +0100,* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>B Subject: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems' Message-ID: <blgv4p$kt9$1@lore.csc.com>o  H I know this is more a datacomms issue, but maybe someone can help or has* some advice... It is also my hobby system.  ( I have ISDN, and the service works fine.  B What I'm trying to do, is take advantage of the 64k rate on my VAXH system. I have a DS700-16 and I've built a hardware flow control RJ45 toD DB25 connector for the terminal adapter (TA), which is a US RoboticsA Courier-I. It is configured for V120. I have set it at fixed rateI' 115200, and synch to asynch conversion.e  H When using a VT520 terminal directly to the Terminal adapter, I can dialF out and make a 64k connection and get the login prompts, even set up aB PPP session (I just drop the line there). I can do all the regular% configuration settings and inquiries.P  E I've set up a service on the server that I can either connect to fromPD the host system, or from another port on the server. This works fine (with an ordinary modem).i  E Now, if I connect up the ISDN TA to the DS700, I can't get a response H from the TA. I have a RS232 mini tester which is showing all the correctA signals, yet, nothing*. If I swap that with a standard modem (USRs9 Courier V Everything) I can talk to the modem no problem.<  C * Not exactly nothing. I get the lowercase y with two dots, hex FD,c
 occasionally.   C The terminal server port is set up for remote access, hardware flowtH (CTS) 115200 fixed speed ordinary LAT (I'm not using IP on this server).D I've experimented with 8 bit, 7 bit, 1,2 and dynamic stop bit (but IF left it on 8, no parity 2 stop bit). I have also tried another port onF the same server, and switching off the modem/hardware control signals.  F So that is the problem, the Terminal Adapter just doesn't want to talkG through a port on the server, even though a regular modem will. I guessiC I must be missing something, and any advice would be welcome. It isiH loading from a flash card, so I don't know if this is a current or older version of the load software.d   -- l? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:59:41 +0200( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>F Subject: Re: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems9 Message-ID: <blhllb$cbib6$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   9 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> schreef in berichtm! news:blgv4p$kt9$1@lore.csc.com...gJ > I know this is more a datacomms issue, but maybe someone can help or has, > some advice... It is also my hobby system. > * > I have ISDN, and the service works fine. > D > What I'm trying to do, is take advantage of the 64k rate on my VAXJ > system. I have a DS700-16 and I've built a hardware flow control RJ45 toF > DB25 connector for the terminal adapter (TA), which is a US RoboticsC > Courier-I. It is configured for V120. I have set it at fixed rate:) > 115200, and synch to asynch conversion.e >lJ > When using a VT520 terminal directly to the Terminal adapter, I can dialH > out and make a 64k connection and get the login prompts, even set up aD > PPP session (I just drop the line there). I can do all the regular' > configuration settings and inquiries.d >>G > I've set up a service on the server that I can either connect to from,F > the host system, or from another port on the server. This works fine > (with an ordinary modem).n >fG > Now, if I connect up the ISDN TA to the DS700, I can't get a response J > from the TA. I have a RS232 mini tester which is showing all the correctC > signals, yet, nothing*. If I swap that with a standard modem (USR ; > Courier V Everything) I can talk to the modem no problem.o >)E > * Not exactly nothing. I get the lowercase y with two dots, hex FD,n > occasionally.  > E > The terminal server port is set up for remote access, hardware flowrJ > (CTS) 115200 fixed speed ordinary LAT (I'm not using IP on this server).F > I've experimented with 8 bit, 7 bit, 1,2 and dynamic stop bit (but IH > left it on 8, no parity 2 stop bit). I have also tried another port onH > the same server, and switching off the modem/hardware control signals. >cH > So that is the problem, the Terminal Adapter just doesn't want to talkI > through a port on the server, even though a regular modem will. I guesseE > I must be missing something, and any advice would be welcome. It isMJ > loading from a flash card, so I don't know if this is a current or older > version of the load software.e >s > -- eA > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences> > nclews at csc dot com9  L If the ISDN line is connected directly to a seral DS700 port (that is what II understood from your description, but that may be wrong) then the control F characters in the ISDN dataflow may confuse the DS700. IIRC there is a2 PASALL port attribute on the DS700, that may help.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:52:27 -0400.& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: Joining Encompass8 Message-ID: <vslonvo95856n125s3s79oi65ah7ttufe3@4ax.com>  K On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:28:08 -0400, Joe Hodge <jhodge@biglizard.net> wrote:   A >I am wondering how long it takes to join Encompass (DECUS) as anlA >associate member?  I filled out the online form and recieved thetD >confirmation mail on September 4th, and have not heard back.  AfterF >what I thought was a decent wait, I repeated the process on SeptemberG >26th, and still have heard nothing.  If I go to the site and key in mygC >email address to look up my password, the site returns a not found A >error which leads me to believe that my application has not beeno >processed.   N I filled in the form on 2002-12-13 and received my email with associate member number on 2002-12-20 (7 days).I -------------------------------------------------------------------------aI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comiI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)"I -------------------------------------------------------------------------A   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:56:03 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>= Subject: Re: map port 21 from XP gateway to VMS intranet box?t2 Message-ID: <blhapn$i8q$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>  I I did. Just installed an ADSL router instead of the ADSL "modem" and now p I have no probs.   Thanks,    D.   Bob Koehler wrote:  Y > In article <blc6nl$a29$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:n > J >>Did anyone succeed to map the incoming FTP port 21 of a XP Pro box with : >>a public IP address to a VMS box located in an intranet? >> >  > C >    I think I'd look for that feature in a router, not in Windows.i >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:52:45 +0100.0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: mgftp+ Message-ID: <3F7BF56D.4020407@sorry.nospam>a  D my ftp api, which has been working happily for years now, has begun  falling over regularly.i  G We rebooted the other day, and installed the vm73-update-2, along with   the pcsi upgrade and sys-6.t   Since then, it's been givingI %FTP-W-REMOTE_ERROR, Requested Action aborted: local error in processing.    several dozen times a day.  > This is for a binary get, issued from VMS to fetch a Mac file.   Any ideas anyone ?5 Please help - it's causing a great deal of pain here!t   Thanks,d Christ   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:02:07 +0100i0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: Re: mgftp4 Message-ID: <blh7kg$2cu$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Chris Sharman wrote:F > my ftp api, which has been working happily for years now, has begun  > falling over regularly.e > I > We rebooted the other day, and installed the vm73-update-2, along with : > the pcsi upgrade and sys-6.  >  > Since then, it's been givingK > %FTP-W-REMOTE_ERROR, Requested Action aborted: local error in processing.e  ! I've managed to get some logging:u  1 <451 Transfer aborted; data connection timed out.-I %FTP-W-REMOTE_ERROR, Requested Action aborted: local error in processing.n  C Investigation shows that mgftp performance is terrible - lumpy and PI around 1k/s, whereas tcpip 5.1-3 native ftp does 200-500k/s for the same a	 transfer.t  B Is there some logical to affect performance, or a quota issue, or  something like that ?w   Thanks,n Chrisp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:38:25 +0100i0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>% Subject: Re: mgftp - fixed with hgftps4 Message-ID: <blhgpg$ep5$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Chris Sharman wrote: > Chris Sharman wrote: > G >> my ftp api, which has been working happily for years now, has begun   >> falling over regularly. >>J >> We rebooted the other day, and installed the vm73-update-2, along with  >> the pcsi upgrade and sys-6. >> >> Since then, it's been givingdL >> %FTP-W-REMOTE_ERROR, Requested Action aborted: local error in processing. >  > # > I've managed to get some logging:: > 3 > <451 Transfer aborted; data connection timed out.eK > %FTP-W-REMOTE_ERROR, Requested Action aborted: local error in processing.  > E > Investigation shows that mgftp performance is terrible - lumpy and  K > around 1k/s, whereas tcpip 5.1-3 native ftp does 200-500k/s for the same t > transfer.a > D > Is there some logical to affect performance, or a quota issue, or  > something like that ?w  * 3.1 seems to have fixed it - thanks Hunter   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:08:37 +0100hO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>y: Subject: Re: OT: Is Linux Really More Secure Than Windows?0 Message-ID: <blgtf6$9sk$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:r > John Smith quoted an article:r > J >>Religious evangelists on both sides of the Windows vs. Linux aisle wouldF >>argue to the death that their operating system is inherently safer.  >  > N > I find it very hard to believe that any Window weenie would claim that theirN > OS is more secure. Even their God, Mr Gates admitted Windows needed a lot of1 > work to bring it to acceptable security levels.o >  > L >>a well-documented, wide-spread virus, you go after the Microsoft operatingK >>system. That doesn't mean that Linux can't be exposed to viruses. It justnF >>means it's not a real target at this point. But that could change.'' >  > O > If you send an executable to a linux platform, what are the odds that it will:N > actually be able to execute on Linux (consider the number of platforms LinuxM > runs on as a starter, and wheter there is any Linux email software that cand- > execute them from within the email client).l >   C Mozilla and Evolution support attachements that can be executables,n we use both in Sun.n  = But there is more variation on the Linux client side that may < restrict the spread of the virus once inside your perimiter.  G Most vacines work on a herd immunity principle, you don't actually needsG to vacinate everyone because if enough of the population are immune the> virus doesn't spread.s  @ The problem on the desktop is that the common herd (Windows) areH vunerable and the fact that there may be small quantities of MAC's/LinuxB desktops doesn't inhibit the spread of any portscanning/email type windows based virus.  F In Sun we have herd immunity because the vast majority of our desktopsD don't run Windows so Windows virii do spread but at a much lower and much more managable rate.d  G If Linux and Linux from one supplier lets assume its RedHat becomes thebB defacto standard for desktop systems then you will be swapping oneC vunerable herd for another. The question then will be how vunerablecB will RedHat be to the same kinds of attacks that currently hit the Windows systems.  D I hope it will be less vunerable, one thing that Linux has going forB it is that OpenSource based systems have code that is open to peer= review. This should result in earlier reporting and fixing oft@ vunerabilites and less use of core technology that is built from the ground up to be vunerable.  C Scott once described Windows as like whipped cream on a road apple,yC a road apple is apparently horse S**T. This neatly desribes Windowsd security as well.   M > Does Linux, by default, provide the users with privileges to deposit/change2M > system files, such as adding a new process that can start behind the scenessH > during system boot ? Do most linux users create their own unprivileged7 > account, or do they give themselves root privileges ?t >  > J >>Sundermeier points out that Central Command has documented more than 200= >>viruses specifically targeting the Linux operating system. i >  > I > I'd be very interested in finding out what tactics Linux viruses use to $ > 1-install themselves, 2-propagate. >  > L >>But as Linux goes more and more corporate, Woolley thinks all bets will be >>off. >  > N > If Linux is well designed, you won't have the gaping holes needed to installI > and propagate viruses. And people will learn that less "fancy" softwareeM > without bells and whistles is actually just as good to get the job done andrO > has the bonus that because it doesn't leave doors opened to vurises, you saved > a tremendous amount of time. >  > H >>''Is Linux inherently safer than windows?'' asks Richardson. ''No, notJ >>inherently. A simpler design typically means fewer vulnerabilities but I, >>wouldn't go so far as to say it's safer.'' >  > N > Does Linux come with all gaping holes installed/preconfigured ? If microsoftM > were to properly configure the defaults in its OS and software, it would behN > the target of far fewer easy/succesful attacks because there wouldn't be the; > widespread number of machines that are easily infectable.  >   F The current crop of vunerabilites BLAST/Sobig.F etc would suggest that> hardening the OS defaults in the case of Windows would make noF difference. BLAST exploited a bug, Sobig a standard feature of OutlookC and while you could I think turn that standard feature off it woulds> not protect you from a user clicking on the attachment itself.  E Nor is it reasonable to suggest to customers as MS did that they wereo6 at fault in the case of BLAST for not patching for it.  = With a time between hole discovery and virii in the wild thatwH exploits that hole as low as 26 days MS customers with 10's of thousands1 of systems are in an almost impossible situation.   * http://news.com.com/2100-1002-5085251.html   Regardst Andrew Harrisony   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 13:40:15 GMTo4 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@frank.harvard.invalid>@ Subject: Re: Preserving decwindows session through disconnection/ Message-ID: <blh9rv$f1j$1@news.fas.harvard.edu>e   xsm?  8 Fred Kleinsorge <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote: > VNC?  9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messages% > news:3F6DE9EA.C9AD1A1D@istop.com... L >> Lets say I have a decwindows (vax vms) session established to a X windows > server/display.a >>M >> If I turn off the X windows display (or quit the x emulation software), myi > VMSeL >> session is killed and I must login again and reopen, place etc windows to > geta >> to where I was before.a >>L >> Is there a way to preserve an x windows session such that if the X server > goesB >> away, when it comes back, I could get all the previously opened> >> applications/windows to redisplay the exact way they were ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:02:44 +0100, From: "Neil Bush" <ericthepig@despammed.com>M Subject: Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same program * Message-ID: <HtUeb.1$G13.331@psinet-eu-nl>   Tom Wade wrote:.G >>    The easiest way would be to have the program enqueue a lock basedC >>    on the username. > C > Note also that since the lock manager is cluster wide, this wouldwE > prevent the user from running the program a second time on any nodeuE > in the cluster. If you only want the restriction to be no more than:F > once on any given node, then simply include the node name as well as  > the username in the lock name. >M  E Forgive my ignorance, but could anyone provide a code example for me?l4 The more I read the manual, the more confused I get.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:57:21 GMTe4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>M Subject: Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programe0 Message-ID: <3F7C2D9C.39066A27@blueyonder.co.uk>   Neil Bush wrote: >  > Tom Wade wrote:yI > >>    The easiest way would be to have the program enqueue a lock based  > >>    on the username. > >cE > > Note also that since the lock manager is cluster wide, this wouldyG > > prevent the user from running the program a second time on any nodecG > > in the cluster. If you only want the restriction to be no more thanIH > > once on any given node, then simply include the node name as well as" > > the username in the lock name. > >H > G > Forgive my ignorance, but could anyone provide a code example for me?s6 > The more I read the manual, the more confused I get.   What language are you using?  . Could you provide a purchase order in return?    regards7 -- M tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:25:02 -0400A( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>M Subject: Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programr, Message-ID: <3F7C272E.1060909@tsoft-inc.com>   Neil Bush wrote:   > Tom Wade wrote:h > G >>>   The easiest way would be to have the program enqueue a lock basedh >>>   on the username. >>>eC >>Note also that since the lock manager is cluster wide, this wouldeE >>prevent the user from running the program a second time on any node E >>in the cluster. If you only want the restriction to be no more thanrF >>once on any given node, then simply include the node name as well as  >>the username in the lock name. >> >> > G > Forgive my ignorance, but could anyone provide a code example for me?c6 > The more I read the manual, the more confused I get. >  >  >   % First example I found is in MACRO-32:e  ( You need a quadword for the lock status:  7 IOSB:                                   ; IOSB quadworde> LKSB:                                   ; Lock status quadword? STAT:   .WORD   0                       ; IOSB/LKSB status wordm> COUNT:  .WORD   0                       ; IOSB/LKSB count word? ID:     .LONG   0                       ; IOSB/LKSB id longwordr  0 You need some string for the lock resource name:  @ LKNAME: .ASCID  /DECLRCVR/              ; Resource name for lock   Queue the lock:    ;i. ; Obtain exclusive access for adding receivers ;l@          $ENQW_S LKMODE=#LCK$K_EXMODE,-  ; Create exclusive lock*                  LKSB=LKSB,-             ;*                  RESNAM=LKNAME           ;>          BLBS    R0,020$                 ; No errors, continue:          MOVL    R0,ERR                  ; Save error code/          BRW     900$                    ; ExitD ;o  ! Don't forget to release the lock:    ;e ; Release the lock ;:1 800$:   $DEQ_S  LKID=ID                 ; Dump itu=          BLBS    R0,900$                 ; No error, continue7:          PUSHL   R0                      ; Push error code9          CALLS   #1,G^LIB$STOP           ; Abort on error   @ Is there a particular language you'd like to see an example for?   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin RoadI Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:10:50 GMT 9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>gM Subject: Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programn/ Message-ID: <3F7C3F74.209DF75F@eps.zko.dec.com>    Neil Bush wrote:   > Tom Wade wrote:sI > >>    The easiest way would be to have the program enqueue a lock based7 > on the username. > :h7 > > If you only want the restriction to be no more thanwH > > once on any given node, then simply include the node name as well as" > > the username in the lock name. >0G > Forgive my ignorance, but could anyone provide a code example for me?/6 > The more I read the manual, the more confused I get.  F Working example below... The NOTVALID and lock_value stuff is in thereJ in case you want to use a similar technique but exchange data, like th PID ofD the locker, or a lock count, or a lock time, or a 'next order id' or whatever...    Hein.d   #include <descrip> #include <stdlib>E #include <string>c #include <lckdef>  #include <stdio>   main() {e int sys$enqw(), sys$hiber(); int s, fake_descriptor[2];( char *username, *nodename, lockname[32];  H struct { short stat, reserved; int lock_id, lock_value_block[4]; } lksb;  $ globalref const int SS$_VALNOTVALID;   username = getenv ("USER");L nodename = getenv ("SYS$NODE");   E fake_descriptor[0] = sprintf (lockname, "%s_%s", username, nodename); $ fake_descriptor[1] = (int) lockname;   printf ("%s\n", lockname);   s = sys$enqw (@ 0,LCK$K_EXMODE,&lksb,LCK$M_NOQUEUE,fake_descriptor,0,0,0,0,0,0); if (s & 1)  s=sys$hiber();	 exit (s);e }a   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:35:45 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.ukM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?m) Message-ID: <blh630$srm$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   U In article <3F7B8754.3623EC0F@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:= >= >=  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> =X >> In article <3F79CE46.5E40D800@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >> > >> ># >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:S >> >> P >> >> In article <blag7c$kfg$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:\ >> >> >In article <3F789087.7B990DE0@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >> >> >> >> >> >>' >> >> >>david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: 	 >> >> >>>0^ >> >> >>> In article <3F74CF7F.9D265CA@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >> >> >>> >  >> >> >>> >H* >> >> >>> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >> >>> >>d >> >> >>> >> In article <vn5s22g2nrds0e@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:9 >> >> >>> >> ><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagen1 >> >> >>> >> >news:bkuhsq$dk3$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...>E >> >> >>> >> >> In article <3F71D664.D92AAC37@pacbell.net>, Don Sykesy- >> >> >>> >> ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:a >> >> >>> >> >> >t0 >> >> >>> >> >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>H >> >> >>> >> >> >> In article <3F70934A.3C36DD45@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes- >> >> >>> >> ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:e >> >> >>> >> >> >> > >> >> >>> >> >> >p	 >> >> >>>o >> cQ >> The receiver is in compete control. If it doesn't like something it sends backv, >> a 5xx response and closes the connection. >g@ >The receiver can set aside accepting an email until a time more? >convenient to them. They're not required to accept mail at the H >convinience of the sender. This allows options that are impossible in aH >one phase protocol, like retrieving large or low priority emails duringD >slow times and sending a pre-email notification to the user - e.g. C >	I have a request from smutpeddler@legitdomain.com, do you want tonC >accept a 2MB avi file? do you want to charge him? If so, how much?u? >that sort of thing. A one phase protocol requires a continuoust4 >interaction until the mail is rejected or accepted. >P  J You are at least one level away from the sender or receiver at the centralI mailhub level. Your default policy is you are going to delay all mail not " explicitly requested by the user ?O My mail users complain that mail is not instantaneous. They expect it to all bemM instantaneous. Adding extra delays is not acceptable. Even if a simple methoduM is supplied for them to update what they want to delay on the central mailhubgI they won't immediately update it after they get off the phone to that newrM contact who is going to mail them - that is if they remember to get his emaila, address rather than just telling him theirs.K Anyone running a central mailhub will immediately turn off any such delays.e       >> u >> tP >> >> At the moment there does exist a small possiblity of spoofing however your> >> >> system is exactly as vulnerable as the current standards >> >L >> >I don't agree, because in phase 2 the receiver initiates the connection.L >> >So unless the spoofer can control the DNS I don't see how they will ever  >> >get their message delivered.K >> >And if they can control the DNS, they can jolly well force all of us toe2 >> >a smut site when we try to http to Google.com. >> oL >> Yes as I say a small chance of spoofing which is exactly the same for the@ >> current protocol since it can do exactly the same DNS lookup.P >> Since this is at the central mailhub rather than the desktop sender level theQ >> chances of anyone wanting to spoof this are pretty remote anyway. Any spoofing D >> would be done between the desktop system and the central mailhub. >SF >Give me an example of what you mean. I don't see it. When the desktopI >user goes to retrieve his mail he logs onto a POP or IMAP server, passesaH >his userid & password and downloads the mails that are waiting for him.  >Where would the spoofing occur? >   L I'm talking about in sending the mail from the desktop to the central server  in order to avoid being charged.     >> rO >> As to controlling the DNS and redirecting to smut sites - yes it happens allnN >> the time. Though the preference is usually to redirect to their own versionH >> of a companies site so they can gather credit card and other details. >> n >> > >> >> - this can be improvedM >> >> in the future by use of server certificates and SSL/TSL to provide more-( >> >> trustworthy mutual authentication. >> >>eQ >> >> The problems of identity are to do with tracking within organisations, witheK >> >> non-compliant and badly configured mail systems and with open relays.aN >> >> These are NOT protocol issues.  Nobody should be running an open-relay -8 >> >> there is even an RFC which states this - RFC 2505. >> >L >> >I don't run an open relay and I can't stop the 100's of spams per day orC >> >force anyone to pay if I deliver a spam message to an end user.r >> > >> oQ >> But apart from the fee paying idea which won't work unless you really know who O >> to charge the fee to your protocol doesn't provide anything extra which will  >> control spammers. >b0 >Apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?! >The fee IS the pertenient point.r >c >> iK >> >I agree that identity problems WITHIN an organisation are not solved by H >> >this, but that' by design. IMO all those problems are implementationH >> >issues, ones, I might add, that are just as likely to cause problems >> >using any protocol.e >> > >> oR >> What I am saying is your protocol is irrelevent. Communications between centralO >> mailhubs are already adequately controlled. It is the injection of spam intonL >> the sending central mailhubs and direct sending of mail bypassing central# >> mailhubs which need controlling.a >r6 >How can you bypass the receiving ESP? Example please.  I I'm talking abiout the current setup. Not everybody has central mailhubs, O not everybody has firewall rules blocking direct sending from desktop machines.e   >eM >> Unfortunately even after solving those problems we will still be left withlQ >> open-relays and misconfigured or non-compliant systems. The systems which were3M >> being put in place to handle those - blacklists - have been hounded out of L >> existence by court proceedings and latterly by targeted denial of service >> attacks.@ >> rM >> >> I note in passing that your protocol is actually pretty weak on this :-  >> >>nO >> >> "The receiving ESP has no obligation to relay messages outside of its owns
 >> >> domain"e >> >H >> >The point of this statement is to clarify that this protocol doesn'tH >> >deal with issues of routing beyond the receiver ESP. If they want to5 >> >route beyond their domain, that's their business.  >> > >> i8 >> NO system should ever be configured as an open-relay. >> l >> >>tU >> >> The only features of your protocol different from current ESMTP implementationsa >> >> are :- >> >>eN >> >> 1) Two separate connections  - As stated above this is pretty pointless. >> >J >> >Not at all pointless as I mentioned. Control of the mail receipt is in >> >the hands of the receiver. >> -N >> Control in the current protocol is in the hands of the receiver without any  >> need for a second connection. >nC >Partial control in the current protocol. Full control in a 2 phaset
 >protocol. >e  I I get the impression that your model is the telephone system and dialbacktG modems. IP has always had a super charged version of caller-id display.nH It knows what number called it and can do a lookup in it's equivalent of= yellow pages - the DNS - to confirm validity of that address.yM Dialback gains you nothing - Many companies still use it but the major reason.< nowadays is so that the Company is paying for the phonecall.     >> g >> >R >> >> 2) The provision of attachment numbers, sizes and mime types up front before# >> >>    the actual data is passed.s+ >> >>    I'm not sure of the point of this.h >> >G >> >The point is to allow the receiver ESP to use this info in decidingIK >> >whether to accept this message. Maybe a policy is not to accept msword,aH >> >due to the infection possibilities. Or maybe an organization doesn't >> >want avi or other video. >> >, >> >>   Virus writers and Microsoft products/ >> >>    either lie or ignore this information.  >> >J >> >Yes, they can, but if you try to launch an msword attachment as an exeD >> >it's not going to work. Mail readers use the MIME info to decideL >> >whether, and how, to launch it. So lying isn't going to get you what you	 >> >want.e >> >G >> Microsoft products ignore the MIME type they use the file extension.aN >> This is why most mailhubs have a large - ever growing - list of banned file >> extensions. >-H >That's Microsoft's problem. Maybe they'll be more MIME compliant in the2 >future if they see it's better for them to do so. >m  I No it's your (and everybody elses) problem. Why should Microsoft change ?-O People have been complaining about Microsoft's attitude to standards for years.lF But so long as they have a dominent desktop position and can use theirN tweaking/ignoring of standards to allow them to leverage that for dominence in' other areas they aren't likely to stop. G Microsoft are standards compliant - it's just it's their version of the>	 standard.i     >> s( >> >> Mime is also not the only encodingT >> >>    mechanism used in mail messages - eg uuencoded mail, pgp encrypted mail etcR >> >>    Also since this is at the central mailhub level only organisational level. >> >>    checks and blocks can be done anyway. >> >K >> >That depends completely on your implementation. For businesses like HP,lL >> >they probably would use organizational-wide parameters. AOL on the otherL >> >hand will defininately not. They will allow each user to specify all the, >> >options for themselves, including price. >> >R >> How ? Your protocol is central mailhub to central mailhub it says nothing about5 >> any mechanism for a user to request these options.d > H >Of course it doesn't. Why should it? SMTP doesn't tell you to do an RBL; >lookup, or to go check a user list when you get a RCPT_TO: A >anybody@abc.com. That's up to whoever is implemting the receiverNG >service. E.G. HP's TCPIP SMTP Service doesn't even give you the optionn >to check a user's list. >sA SMTP never touted these as advantages to it's protocol - you are.l9 Hence you need to provide something more than handwaving.r  L To get people  to buy into your new protocol you need to prove it is better N than the existing protocols. People have spent a lot of money on systems usingG the existing protocols - they will need a bl**dy good reason to move touF something else. So far I don't see anything which improves on existing
 protocols.           >> e, >> >> I cannot see any reason for wanting toA >> >>    specify individual size blocks for different Mime types.n >> >L >> >Options. Just because you can't see it now, doesn't mean you won't see aI >> >reason for it in the future. The "cost" to provide it is zero, so why  >> >not give the option. >> >U >> >>    ESMTP can already apply blocks up front for actual size of messages, numbers  >> >>    of recipients etc >> >>c' >> >> 3) The provision of fee charging.  >> >>yT >> >>    Assuming that 100% identification could be achieved which is a prerequisite! >> >>    for any charging system.XS >> >>    Firstly the costs per MB or whatever should be up front before any sendingeT >> >>    of from or recipient addresses. THis could be achieved with ESMP with costsJ >> >>    being relayed back to the sender in response to the EHLO command.T >> >>    Rather than providing a new protocol the additional commands required for aT >> >>    feebased system could be added to ESMTP - thats the whole point of ESMTP it >> >>    is extensible.  >> >I >> >Unless ESMTP provides that 2nd phase, it's not going to be effective.  >> > >> tP >> As I have said time and time again your second connection provides absolutely >> nothing.e >T >See previous responses. >n >> o >> >> N >> >>    In short I don't see that this protocol provides anything not alreadyR >> >>    available in the existing protocols (or which could not be added - in theQ >> >>    case of charging). In particular it does not provide any additional helpk6 >> >>    in identifying the sender of a piece of mail. >> >>l >> >F >> >That's the beauty, I don't have to care who the sender is if I can# >> >collect a fee for receiving it!e >> > >> SP >> Good luck in trying to collect that fee. The lawyers will make a lot of money >> I doubt you will. >1F >I'm not trying to make a lot of money on this. If there is continuingC >trouble collecting fees from an ESP they will be marked as such bye
 >eosawki.org.  >t  I Sorry I didn't mean you personally. Just saying that any fee based systemtN which doesn't provide full end to end accountability will be open to all sorts of legal challenges.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >c >, >--  >' >Have VMS, Will Travel >Wire paladin, San Francisco >  >(paladinATalphaseDOTcom),   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 07:24:56 -0700s+ From: pzxkys@atd.gmeds.com (Martin Meadows) $ Subject: rack mounting an alpha 4100< Message-ID: <551735b.0310020624.3a855de7@posting.google.com>  C Does anyone know what it would take to rack mount an alpha 4100? IslD there a web site that has specific info about a rack that would work with this box?   Thanks,i Martin Meadows   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:37:27 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)( Subject: Re: rack mounting an alpha 4100. Message-ID: <blhk87$rbl$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   pzxkys@atd.gmeds.com (Martin Meadows) writes in article <551735b.0310020624.3a855de7@posting.google.com> dated 2 Oct 2003 07:24:56 -0700:eD >Does anyone know what it would take to rack mount an alpha 4100? IsE >there a web site that has specific info about a rack that would workn >with this box?   K You will need a rackmount kit for the "system drawer" and one for each diskrJ shelf you have.  The ones for the system drawer come in two flavors -- oneL which will pull out all the way from the front and the other which will pullN out halfway to the front and halfway to the back (not at the same time :^) ). H The kits are very HP-specific, so you need to get them from a HP vendor. I used cpuoptions.com.  H Don't put the system drawer too high -- most maintenance on it has to be done from the top.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgh> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:40:51 GMT . From: Eregreat The Spanker <spam@someone.else>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!e@ Message-ID: <5b3673fa6342c709d9427fe951078e93@news.teranews.com>  E On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>  wrote:  J >Let me tell you about a totally superior OS, VMS.  VMS is without doubt, 7 >the most intuative, helpful OS that has ever existed. e  G You are as boring and as retarded as that piece of shit, GreyCloud, are ! you sure that you are not him/it?m  G VMS is stupid and ugly, now fuck off shitbrick, and before you do that,AD get a spell checker, since your so called "superior OS" doesn't have one, douche bag.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:02:10 +0100eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>n' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!e0 Message-ID: <blgpij$86k$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >  > The Genius wrote:  >  >>J >> I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing G >> at the trolls from both sides, having a go at each others OS, and I oI >> can't help feeeling that the lot of you are complete loosers.  Let me   >> break it down as follows:-7 >> > [snip] > G >> Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people 0  >> who are stupid to begin with. >  > I > Only an insecure twit would make such a profane posting, anonymously.  tG > You have no credentials, no credibility, and nothing constructive to i3 > say, so climb back under your rock and go away...a >  >  > Barryp >  >  > > Could this be the start of the OpenVMS marketing campaign that7 everyone has been hoping HP will launch sometime soon ?    Lets hope not.   Regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:32:08 GMTr From: "sqr" <sqr@sqr.sqr>s' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!k@ Message-ID: <5625be39ca5b65831e6838cff12f3092@news.teranews.com>  A Hay...this guy is making fun of both groups......Lets get him....i  * <punch kick stomp: from the windoze group>5 <slap scratch name calling : from the Linfucks group>a   -- - sqr- -- ftp://sqr.myftp.biz-      4 "The Genius" <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> wrote in message" news:3F7B7776.2080904@bigIQ.com... >5 > 
 > Rick wrote:o9 > > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius wrote:w
 > > (snip) > >- > >>The Genius.....- > >- > > ... is an idiot. >-' > A repeat from a previous thread......- >- >- > H > You are jealous because you mind does not encompass the grand scale ofA > things.  To you, people you consider are idiots, have much moree4 > intellect, and wit than you could possibly imagine >. > Remember this:-A > I > Linucks is for Lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze is for people who  > are stupid to begin with.  >n >t > The Genius.....n >-' > So now youv'e get it twice air brain.p >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:48:22 +0100 - From: "Humble.Life" <Humble.Life@Lycos.co.uk>S' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! / Message-ID: <blh2u2$ub9$2@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>r  J > Let me tell you about a totally superior OS, VMS.  VMS is without doubt,H > the most intuative, helpful OS that has ever existed.  The help systemH > is the best ever, and will tell you exactly what you want to know, andF > how to execute a command properly.  VMS is by far the most stable OSF > going, requiring no periodical pathes, only an upgrade (if you want)I > every 2 or 3 years.  It doesn't get viruses of any sort whatsoever, andgJ > does not suffer from denial of service attacks that both Linucks (or anyK > usix) and Winshite does.  In fact it is superior to all OSs in every way.o > I > I will continue to lurk in your groups for a laugh, but remember this:-a > I > Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people who  > are stupid to begin with.0 >  >  >  > The Genius.....s  % Beos is better, why did they drop it?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:44:54 +02008 From: "Patrick van Loon" <Patrick.van.Loon@Gielissen.NL>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!y# Message-ID: <3f7c1dd0_1@Usenet.com>a   Just one question.    What OS are you running at home?    4 "The Genius" <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> wrote in message  news:3F7B66B4.50404@bigIQ.com... > H > I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughingE > at the trolls from both sides, having a go at each others OS, and IRG > can't help feeeling that the lot of you are complete loosers.  Let meo > break it down as follows:- >  > Linucks Lusers:d > J > Linfux (or any unix in general) is the biggest piece of shit going. it'sJ > had its day in the seventies, and just doesn't know when its time is up.A >   The man pages were written by geeks for geeks, and is totally-G > unintuitive, and is about as much help as turd that wont flush.  OnlyrD > complete morons, with very long hair and smelly beards (ie richard! > stallman) uses unix these days.e >n >. > Windozers: >hJ > What a completly fucked up OS that is.   Based upon a superior OS (VMS),F > but bastardised into a complete piece of shit, with so many security@ > holes, its a wonder the whole planet is not sueing the butt ofG > Microshite.  Can someone answer a simple question?  Why the fuck doeseI > windoze servers require a GUI to work.  It doesn't need it!!!  Its justnB > a file, print and possiblly a database server.  No GUI required!J > Everything can be done from the command line.  Does microshite know that+ > is products will be used to total morons?i >  >  > J > Let me tell you about a totally superior OS, VMS.  VMS is without doubt,H > the most intuative, helpful OS that has ever existed.  The help systemH > is the best ever, and will tell you exactly what you want to know, andF > how to execute a command properly.  VMS is by far the most stable OSF > going, requiring no periodical pathes, only an upgrade (if you want)I > every 2 or 3 years.  It doesn't get viruses of any sort whatsoever, andoJ > does not suffer from denial of service attacks that both Linucks (or anyK > usix) and Winshite does.  In fact it is superior to all OSs in every way.w >eI > I will continue to lurk in your groups for a laugh, but remember this:-i > I > Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people whot > are stupid to begin with.r >  >  >  > The Genius.....r >o >l      8  Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services: ----------------------------------------------------------7     ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **oB ----------------------------------------------------------        %                 http://www.usenet.comn   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 22:50:19 +1000s, From: "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!e@ Message-ID: <0B75P0GlX6kdCA771310HfLyI7WJIOBa@mail.bizbucks.com>   Patrick van Loon wrote:n > Just one question. >e" > What OS are you running at home?  3 Can't you fucking well read headers, you duff fuck?t  E User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.2; en-GB; rv:1.0.1)n Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0n   --  @ Kadaitcha Man: Kicking fuckwits in the head on Usenet since 19891                http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/t%                Linux makes you stupidu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:22:27 -0500c$ From: chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!n8 Message-ID: <2k9onv8cunjeppunekh7lal6qdhbeahu9n@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>r wrote:   >lH >I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing    *plonk*m   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:58:48 +0100& From: "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!a, Message-ID: <blhef9.15o.1@in_cog_ni_to_.com>  % chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:lH >> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>	 >> wrote:l >> >>>iJ >>> I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing >>
 >> *plonk*   *PLANK*e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:14:41 -0700l+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>g' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!t' Message-ID: <3F7C4EF1.8000702@MMaz.com>w  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  @ > Could this be the start of the OpenVMS marketing campaign that9 > everyone has been hoping HP will launch sometime soon ?s >b > Lets hope not. >iH Actually, the originator of the posting, cross-posted to Linux, VMS and F Windows lists, so it would seem he is attempting to create an OS feud G between lists...  Spin it into action by spewing is nonsense, and then u sit back and laugh...e   Barrya   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        d   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 07:32:56 -0700s* From: cgilley@bravewc.com (Charles Gilley), Subject: RMS provide API to directory files?= Message-ID: <139d5a58.0310020632.41e554d0@posting.google.com>x  F I want to be able to do a dir/total via code.  I know I can use systemD to execute dir/total.  Is there an API call to do this? How does theD DCL dir/total command execute so quickly?  lib$find_file is just too slow.c  ( And, yes, I did check the FAQ... really.   chgl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:18:48 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)0 Subject: Re: RMS provide API to directory files?2 Message-ID: <Y5Zeb.6186$Bm3.4793@news.cpqcorp.net>  j In article <139d5a58.0310020632.41e554d0@posting.google.com>, cgilley@bravewc.com (Charles Gilley) writes: > G >I want to be able to do a dir/total via code.  I know I can use systemfE >to execute dir/total.  Is there an API call to do this? How does thetE >DCL dir/total command execute so quickly?  lib$find_file is just tooc >slow.  E I believe DCL calls the XQP directly, and I don't think the interfacetE is documented for public use.  It does the equivalent of a find_file, E except that it can get the list directly from the directory file.  Itk? then fetches the file attributes: you should be able to get the . equivalent of this using the SYS$DISPLAY call.   -- a(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have aw5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.s   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 11:43:42 -0500s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) D Subject: Re: rx2600 OpenVMS I64 porting server (was: affordable VMS)3 Message-ID: <h$Bc$8LI1GIW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <vskonvo4rskbmn7mr4j0ifuikt9megcufl@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:w  B > The bezel is a special part that increases throughput by 1000%!! > _ > ;-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-)   8 Not very good if I am getting paid by the hour...    :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:33:53 GMTs& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>D Subject: Re: rx2600 OpenVMS I64 porting server (was: affordable VMS)8 Message-ID: <vskonvo4rskbmn7mr4j0ifuikt9megcufl@4ax.com>  E On 1 Oct 2003 14:30:08 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  wrote:  r >In article <cf15391e.0310011005.2907f0dc@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:k >> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<$m2MhdUJRCeq@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  >>> So what machine is that ?- >> - >> It's described as:2 >> 3$ >> rx2600 OpenVMS I64 porting server >> @B >> rx2600 1.3GHz CPU server, 1GB DDR memory quad, 36GB 15K HotplugF >> Ultra320 LP Disk Drive, DVD-ROM Slimline Drive, tower bezel upgrade >oC >Thanks Keith.  That looks good.  Even if I don't know what a towerq >bezel does :-)C >>  @ The bezel is a special part that increases throughput by 1000%!!  ] ;-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-)u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:01:32 +0100 , From: Adrian Birkett <aaa@notreallyhere.com>& Subject: Re: shadowing the system disk1 Message-ID: <3F7C4BDC.5D4125AB@notreallyhere.com>o  ' ... and make sure ALLOCLASS is not zero    Adee  	 md wrote:a   > "Antony Wardle" <remove_clothes_antony.wardle@_remove_clothers_optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3f7b497a$0$9828$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...4 > > Haven't been able to figure out what I have done! > > wrong, or what I have missed.- > >3' > > Trying to shadow a vax system disk.l > >   > > shadowing                = 2 > > shadow_max_copy  =1l' > > shad_sys_unit          = 0   (dsa0)a > >  > > and I have run an autogen. > >o, > > I am assuming that a nas250 licence will4 > > let me do shadowing? I get a shadow config error3 > > on startup, no licence problems mentioned, thenu9 > > it will continue starting up as normal, but no shadow = > > system disk. I think I have missed something, but I can'ts% > > figure out what. Any suggestions?n > > 5 > > Vax4000-96 2Gb system disk, VaxVMS 7.3, 48Mb ram.i > >c > >x > > --- * > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).E > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 29/09/2003e >d > Tony,  >-T > Try setting SHADOW_SYS_DISK to 1.  This will enable shadowing for the system disk. >e
 > Example: >n > $ MCR SYSGEN > SYSGEN> USE CURRENTr > SYSGEN> SET SHADOW_SYS_DISK 1s > SYSGEN> WRITE CURRENT  > SYSGEN> EXIT >s > md   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:06:05 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)& Subject: Re: shadowing the system disk. Message-ID: <blhidd$nhl$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Antony Wardle" <remove_clothes_antony.wardle@_remove_clothers_optusnet.com.au> writes in article <3f7b497a$0$9828$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> dated Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:39:04 +1000:n1 >Haven't been able to figure out what I have doner >wrong, or what I have missed. > $ >Trying to shadow a vax system disk. >p >shadowing                = 2  >shadow_max_copy  =1$ >shad_sys_unit          = 0   (dsa0) >  >and I have run an autogen.s  < As others have said, you also need to set SHADOW_SYS_DISK.  + 1 means shadow it, 4097 enables mini-merge.q  # You also need a non-zero ALLOCLASS.   ) >I am assuming that a nas250 licence willR >let me do shadowing?   J I thought you had to have VOLSHAD or VOLSHAD-DISK to do shadowing, but I'm3 not familiar with everything that comes in NAS-250.   J You can test by mounting a non-system disk as a single-member shadow set.  For example,  (    $ MOUNT DSA3/SHADOW=$1$DKA400 VOLNAME  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orge> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:23:19 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> & Subject: Re: shadowing the system disk6 Message-ID: <XhYeb.20021$mg.4909@twister.nyroc.rr.com>  H We have VOLSHAD licenses on all our systems that use the NET-APP-SUP-250	 licenses.o  K SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL_LMFGROUPS.COM seems to indicate the VOLSHAD license isD
 not included.   L A very faint memory I have makes me think that the system disk will mount as' a DSA device regardless of the license.    -Jeff;  9 "Keith A. Lewis" <lewis@mazda.mitre.org> wrote in messageA( news:blhidd$nhl$1@newslocal.mitre.org... > "Antony Wardle"oI <remove_clothes_antony.wardle@_remove_clothers_optusnet.com.au> writes inlH article <3f7b497a$0$9828$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> dated Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:39:04 +1000:+ > >I am assuming that a nas250 licence willm > >let me do shadowing?A >5L > I thought you had to have VOLSHAD or VOLSHAD-DISK to do shadowing, but I'm5 > not familiar with everything that comes in NAS-250.c   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 09:33:29 -0700e1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)z& Subject: Re: shadowing the system disk= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0310020833.54c8afba@posting.google.com>o   "Antony Wardle" <remove_clothes_antony.wardle@_remove_clothers_optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3f7b497a$0$9828$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>... > shadowing                = 2 > shadow_max_copy  =1o% > shad_sys_unit          = 0   (dsa0)u  / I don't see the need to modify SHADOW_MAX_COPY.h  D You'll also need to set the SYSGEN parameter ALLOCLASS to a non-zero value.  E I agree with the other poster that you need SHADOW_SYS_DISK set to 1.i  F The last one is spelled SHADOW_SYS_UNIT.  AUTOGEN typically won't flag mis-spellings as an error.  * > I am assuming that a nas250 licence will > let me do shadowing? u  5 According to an archived Systems & Options Catalog atcF http://h18002.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QBQ25CPF.PDF, NAS250	 includes:;0 o  DECforms for OpenVMS VAX Run-Time Only System# o  DECwindows Motif for OpenVMS VAXd/ o  DECprint Supervisor (DCPS) for OpenVMS, Base / o  DECprint Supervisor (DCPS) for OpenVMS, Plus)/ o  DEC Distributed Queuing Services for OpenVMSr6 o  Reliable Transaction Router for OpenVMS VAX, Client) o  DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS VAX End System  o  DECnet-VAX End Node" o  DEC TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS& o  VAXcluster Software for OpenVMS VAXF and notes "(DCE Runtime Services are licensed with OpenVMS and shipped as a separate kit)"   . but I don't see Volume Shadowing in that list.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 00:39:42 -0700 . From: norbert.hanowski@dillinger.biz (Norbert) Subject: sys$qiowm= Message-ID: <77ba41db.0310012339.7b32053c@posting.google.com>y  	 Hi Leute,s  E I wrote a small server with Fortran under VMS. I answer to the client> by the following sys$qiow.  pC         status = sys$qiow( %VAL( efn ),                ! Event flag>B      &                     %VAL( channel_1 ),            ! Channel numberA      &                     %VAL( IO$_WRITEVBLK ),  ! I/O function E      &                     %REF( iosb ),           ! I/O status blockeD      &                     ,                       ! AST rtn addressB      &                     ,                       ! AST parameter@      &                     %REF( buf ),            ! p1 : buffer addressd@      &                     %VAL( buflen ),         ! p2 : buffer length7      &                     ,                       ! p3s7      &                     ,                       ! p4w7      &                     ,                       ! p5x7      &                     )                       ! p6@  = It works fine but one of my clients need as terminator of therB Buffer-String (buf) a "carriage return line feed". Unfortunatly my% program sends only the nacked string. C What can i do to terminate the buffer-string with a carriage return 
 line feed?  	 Thank youl   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 03:15 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: sys$qiowl, Message-ID: <2OCT200303154760@gerg.tamu.edu>  2 norbert.hanowski@dillinger.biz (Norbert) writes...F }I wrote a small server with Fortran under VMS. I answer to the client }by the following sys$qiow.l } D }        status = sys$qiow( %VAL( efn ),                ! Event flagC }     &                     %VAL( channel_1 ),            ! Channele }numberiB }     &                     %VAL( IO$_WRITEVBLK ),  ! I/O functionF }     &                     %REF( iosb ),           ! I/O status blockE }     &                     ,                       ! AST rtn addressuC }     &                     ,                       ! AST parameteriA }     &                     %REF( buf ),            ! p1 : buffert }addressA }     &                     %VAL( buflen ),         ! p2 : buffere }lengthe8 }     &                     ,                       ! p38 }     &                     ,                       ! p48 }     &                     ,                       ! p58 }     &                     )                       ! p6 } > }It works fine but one of my clients need as terminator of theC }Buffer-String (buf) a "carriage return line feed". Unfortunatly myr& }program sends only the nacked string.D }What can i do to terminate the buffer-string with a carriage return }line feed?s } 
 }Thank you  3 You could just whack them onto the end of the data.b  E Assuming "buf" is big enough to hold two more characters that it doest when it is loaded:  D         buf(buflen+1:buflen+1) = char(13)  ! ASCII character 13 = CRD         buf(buflen+2:buflen+2) = char(10)  ! ASCII character 10 = LF         buflen = buflen + 2r  @ Alternatively, if the buffer can't hold two more characters, you? could follow the above QIO with another QIO that sends just thee CR LF pair.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 04:06:15 -0400h* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: sys$qiown) Message-ID: <3F7BDC40.60F02960@istop.com>r   Norbert wrote:E > What can i do to terminate the buffer-string with a carriage returna > line feed?  M You add the two characters (CR dec 13, LF is 10) to the end of the buffer and * tell QIO that yor buffer has 2 more bytes.  I You have not mentioned what sort of connection is established. If it is a F TCPIP , DECNET, MAILBOX or asynchronous terminal. (or any other type).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:57:19 -0400e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: sys$qiown, Message-ID: <3F7C20AF.1000203@tsoft-inc.com>   Carl Perkins wrote:   4 > norbert.hanowski@dillinger.biz (Norbert) writes...H > }I wrote a small server with Fortran under VMS. I answer to the client > }by the following sys$qiow.s > } F > }        status = sys$qiow( %VAL( efn ),                ! Event flagE > }     &                     %VAL( channel_1 ),            ! Channeld	 > }number D > }     &                     %VAL( IO$_WRITEVBLK ),  ! I/O functionH > }     &                     %REF( iosb ),           ! I/O status blockG > }     &                     ,                       ! AST rtn addressyE > }     &                     ,                       ! AST parameternC > }     &                     %REF( buf ),            ! p1 : buffers
 > }addressC > }     &                     %VAL( buflen ),         ! p2 : buffer 	 > }lengthR: > }     &                     ,                       ! p3: > }     &                     ,                       ! p4: > }     &                     ,                       ! p5: > }     &                     )                       ! p6 > } @ > }It works fine but one of my clients need as terminator of the    M The first question I'd have is what will the <CR><LF> do to the clients that aO work fine without it?  When it comes to protocols, everyone needs to be on the  
 same page.   Dave   -- i4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:07:42 GMTe9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>e Subject: Re: sys$qiowe/ Message-ID: <3F7C30A8.B864608E@eps.zko.dec.com>i  Q As David wrote, you'd clearly need to tell those client that need the added CR-LFeB apart from teh rest. But you should nNOT need to munge the buffer.( VMS has the buildins to deal twith this.Q Check out the Terminal Driver chapter in the OpenVMS I/O User's Reference Manual.k0 Specifically  "Write Function Carriage Control":J http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6136/6136pro_019.html#term_carriageO Looks like you could pass a P4 with byte #0 having value 1 for 1 cr-lf postfix.w  M You may also want to check "Set Mode" to make this a more (or less) permanento attribute for this terminal:K http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6136/6136pro_019.html#term_setmode )    Hein.    David Froble wrote:c   > Carl Perkins wrote:k > 6 > > norbert.hanowski@dillinger.biz (Norbert) writes...J > > }I wrote a small server with Fortran under VMS. I answer to the client > > }by the following sys$qiow.f > > }tH > > }        status = sys$qiow( %VAL( efn ),                ! Event flagG > > }     &                     %VAL( channel_1 ),            ! Channels > > }numberiF > > }     &                     %VAL( IO$_WRITEVBLK ),  ! I/O functionJ > > }     &                     %REF( iosb ),           ! I/O status blockI > > }     &                     ,                       ! AST rtn address G > > }     &                     ,                       ! AST parameter E > > }     &                     %REF( buf ),            ! p1 : bufferc > > }addressE > > }     &                     %VAL( buflen ),         ! p2 : buffero > > }lengthe< > > }     &                     ,                       ! p3< > > }     &                     ,                       ! p4< > > }     &                     ,                       ! p5< > > }     &                     )                       ! p6 > > }-B > > }It works fine but one of my clients need as terminator of the >sN > The first question I'd have is what will the <CR><LF> do to the clients thatP > work fine without it?  When it comes to protocols, everyone needs to be on the > same page. >  > Dave >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:53:13 +0200o" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>. Subject: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL2 Message-ID: <blgi0u$5ae$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>   A game for you.t  ; Given a PC and an iMac connected via the following network:   B iMac at home (OS X) -- Ethernet card 100 Mb -- ADSL 512 Kb -- the E Internet -- ADSL 1024 Kb -- Ethernet card 100 Mb -- PC in office (XP)n  G A *big* file transfer (quicktime movie) downloads from the iMac to the dG PC at 17 Kb/s. The same transfer between the same iMac and the same PC  2 via my hub at home runs at 1850 Kb/s (WSFTP data).   Why ?    D. -- i- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros                      Tout VMS.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 09:26:00 +0200h' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)t2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL+ Message-ID: <GLYT21ThrAEb@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>t  W In article <blgi0u$5ae$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: D > iMac at home (OS X) -- Ethernet card 100 Mb -- ADSL 512 Kb -- the G > Internet -- ADSL 1024 Kb -- Ethernet card 100 Mb -- PC in office (XP)iI > A *big* file transfer (quicktime movie) downloads from the iMac to the  I > PC at 17 Kb/s. The same transfer between the same iMac and the same PC c4 > via my hub at home runs at 1850 Kb/s (WSFTP data).  $ Are You sure not mixing magnitudes ?/ The line speeds are Kb, i.e. K bits per second.m= The FTP programs probably report KB, i.e. K Bytes per second. Q This means, the ADSL FTP throuput is about 1/3 of the nominal speed, not too bad.hE And ADSL means Asymmetric DSL, i.e. the sending side gets less speed.    -- n>    Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Muenchen   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 03:43:45 -0400t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL) Message-ID: <3F7BD6FC.E8DB01BC@istop.com>g   Joseph Huber wrote:yS > This means, the ADSL FTP throuput is about 1/3 of the nominal speed, not too bad. G > And ADSL means Asymmetric DSL, i.e. the sending side gets less speed.   # My ADSL service is supposed to be :e:    Actual Negotiated Downstream Baud Rate:     1728000 bps:     Actual Negotiated Upstream Baud Rate:       384000 bps   So 1.72 meg   internet-->mep   and 0.38 meg me ---> internett  1 You need to check what your ISP is providing you.s  I Also, another aspect is latency. Over the internet, it takes longer for aoL packet to transit, versus a lan. And this means that it takes longer for theJ acks to come back. If the windows size isn't large enough, this could alsoM make a big difference in throughput if the sender has to leave the line iddlep while waiting for an ack.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:15:07 +0200." From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL2 Message-ID: <blh1bv$s79$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>   JF Mezei wrote:r   > Joseph Huber wrote:s > S >>This means, the ADSL FTP throuput is about 1/3 of the nominal speed, not too bad.0G >>And ADSL means Asymmetric DSL, i.e. the sending side gets less speed.a >  > % > My ADSL service is supposed to be :s< >    Actual Negotiated Downstream Baud Rate:     1728000 bps< >     Actual Negotiated Upstream Baud Rate:       384000 bps >  > So 1.72 meg   internet-->meg! >   and 0.38 meg me ---> interneto > 3 > You need to check what your ISP is providing you.a > K > Also, another aspect is latency. Over the internet, it takes longer for auN > packet to transit, versus a lan. And this means that it takes longer for theL > acks to come back. If the windows size isn't large enough, this could alsoO > make a big difference in throughput if the sender has to leave the line iddlep > while waiting for an ack.g  G So, I have a 1024/128 in my office and a 512/128 at home. What you are 'G saying is that I've better download from home to my office that upload e from home, right?o   Hence the following speed flow:   G iMac -- 100 Mbit/s -- Modem ADSL -- 128 Kbit/s -- ISP1 -- the internet  C -- ?? MB/s -- ISP2 -- 1024 Kbit/s -- Modem ADSL -- 100 Mbit/s -- PCi  	 Correct ?>   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:31:21 GMT># From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>>2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSLJ Message-ID: <JMVeb.190652$Lnr1.52237@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Didier Morandi wrote:y > JF Mezei wrote:i >o >> Joseph Huber wrote: >>A >>> This means, the ADSL FTP throuput is about 1/3 of the nominal G >>> speed, not too bad. And ADSL means Asymmetric DSL, i.e. the sendings >>> side gets less speed.d >> >>& >> My ADSL service is supposed to be := >>    Actual Negotiated Downstream Baud Rate:     1728000 bpsa= >>     Actual Negotiated Upstream Baud Rate:       384000 bps  >> >> So 1.72 meg   internet-->me" >>   and 0.38 meg me ---> internet >>4 >> You need to check what your ISP is providing you. >>F >> Also, another aspect is latency. Over the internet, it takes longerF >> for a packet to transit, versus a lan. And this means that it takesD >> longer for the acks to come back. If the windows size isn't largeE >> enough, this could also make a big difference in throughput if thek? >> sender has to leave the line iddle while waiting for an ack.- >-H > So, I have a 1024/128 in my office and a 512/128 at home. What you areH > saying is that I've better download from home to my office that upload > from home, right?D >b! > Hence the following speed flow:  >kH > iMac -- 100 Mbit/s -- Modem ADSL -- 128 Kbit/s -- ISP1 -- the internetE > -- ?? MB/s -- ISP2 -- 1024 Kbit/s -- Modem ADSL -- 100 Mbit/s -- PCo    G Correct. But since the data is only being 'supplied' to the internet at E 128Kbits/s by the Mac, it can only be received by the PC at a max. of + 128Kbits/s (less latency and other issues).e  K The TP/IP stack in each machine may be tuned/optimized differently. Are theeI modems identical (same manufacturer/model/firmware)? What about transientt. line quality issues with the telecom provider.  J JF may also be onto something with the discussion of 'window size'. RecallL that in the old days when Kermit was widely used on dialup lines window sizeF made a difference in throughput. As I recall, it was possible to boostL Kermit throughput on the same connections by 30% or more by adjusting window sizes.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 15:58:12 +0200-' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)02 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL+ Message-ID: <bkQF7OjVk1VK@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>,  W In article <blh1bv$s79$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:tI > So, I have a 1024/128 in my office and a 512/128 at home. What you are  I > saying is that I've better download from home to my office that upload s > from home, right?O! > Hence the following speed flow:rI > iMac -- 100 Mbit/s -- Modem ADSL -- 128 Kbit/s -- ISP1 -- the internet eE > -- ?? MB/s -- ISP2 -- 1024 Kbit/s -- Modem ADSL -- 100 Mbit/s -- PCb  H Since the sending speed on both sides is 128Kbs, it doesn't matter whichK side is FTP client or server. It would matter if e.g. the office side would & have a high speed internet connection.M So Your 17 KBytes/s is probably the maximum You can get from a 128 kbs line. m    -- c>    Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Muenchen   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:18:37 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL. Message-ID: <blhj4t$nhl$2@newslocal.mitre.org>  t huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) writes in article <bkQF7OjVk1VK@vms.mppmu.mpg.de> dated 2 Oct 2003 15:58:12 +0200:N >So Your 17 KBytes/s is probably the maximum You can get from a 128 kbs line.   J Actually 128 kbps = 16 kB/s.  If he's getting 17 while paying for 16, he'd better not complain!  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgi> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:35:31 -0600l From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>S Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Drivere) Message-ID: <1065109928.274717@rh9cache2>o   Murray Styman wrote:N > Our developers are constantly using the tape units as part of the applicaionI > they are developing and keep dismounting the tapes which means that ouraK > operators have to reload.  Part of there job, but a pain in the arse when.K > you have to do it every 5 minutes.  They also seem to get there processes L > into varying states which lock up the tape unit and often the only way out > is a reboot!.p > B > I work in a very security contious environment and giving access7 > un-necessaryily to the tape units is not a good idea.I > L > I thought that a virtual tape unit would be a good solution.  No where forM > the test data to go, reduced access to the real tape units, faster response 1 > and if they lock it up jut create a new device.- >  > 7 > "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in messager, > news:00A264AA.BE2B36BF.10@tachysoft.com... >   B Why not set up a simh/Charon/TS10/??? VAX to do development on (as: long as you can program for VAX and do not require Alpha).2 Gives you virtual tapes, as well as virtual CPU's.  @ They will essentialy have their own virtual machines, which they= can crash and reboot at will, without disturbing anyone else.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:03:24 GMT.& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>" Subject: Re: VMS system on the web8 Message-ID: <6gfonvs5m680kvsnnu1bf669vlgbe8dl3j@4ax.com>  F On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:14:44 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote: F >> On 28 Sep 2003 17:58:38 GMT, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)	 >> wrote:l   >>H >> CS courses in universities should be focused on learning from what isH >> available, as well as searching for improvements and innovation whereD >> possible.  I see no valid argument for not considering any uniqueH >> architecture or platform, and particularly not one that's played such: >> an important part in computing history in this country. >e > L >Those profsjust have to be aware that it existed once upon a time, and that >it currently does exist.h >uM >Many of the current CS faculty at many schools are under the age of 35. They K >would have grown-up using unix and MS products, not VMS. They may not know.6 >of VMS at all in either historic or current contexts. >-J >Funny thing...that's where marketing and advertising kicks in. It createsJ >awareness, which begets curiosity, which begets new sales....something HP0 >blissfully seems to ignore with respect to VMS. >o  J Back when I was at an institution of higher learning, marketing had littleI to do with what we studied.  We were CS students and the profs often usedbG known technologies as a basis for study.  They didn't have to be actuale* products, merely a technological solution.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:38:13 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>o; Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)n9 Message-ID: <qeTeb.9716$ab5.431055@news20.bellglobal.com>a  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageu# news:3F774F17.DB8C4CE5@istop.com...  > Neil Rieck wrote:i% > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ < > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >wM > In your star trek page, the "home" at bottom of page points to an index.htma9 > page which doesn't exist (it is index.html which does).p  B Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what happened but every so oftenJ MS-FrontPage-2003 develops a mind of it's own and makes changes like this.4 I've used the global find/replace tool to fix it up.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,h Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:07:52 +0000 (UTC)+ From: "ROBG" <rgreaves_nospamm@hotmail.com>s# Subject: want to buy GS80 or any ..s0 Message-ID: <blhf08$odu$1@sparta.btinternet.com>   Hi allG We are looking to buy used GS80 machines. Or any used high end servers. 	 Any area.dA Please post or reply to rgreavesNONEOFTHISSPAM@virtualvillage.comh  ' P.S. my apologies if this is off topic.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:55:34 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>. Subject: Re: [ZIP V2.3] Bad error/return codes8 Message-ID: <naionvsmsd26h3jkfumsg5vm6g7i5ccitd@4ax.com>  P On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:06:39 +0200, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote:  ' >The code is in [.vms]vms.c:vms_exit():e > H >   (e == ZE_OK) ? 1 :                     /*   success               */H >   (0x7FFF0000 | (e << 4) | severity)     /*   warning, error, fatal */ >t5 >with e being the ZIP exit code, defined in ziperr.h:s >. 	...J >#define ZE_OPEN     18      /* could not open a specified file to read */ >-K >And "0x7FFF0000 was chosen (by experimentation) to be outside the range of*4 >VMS FACILITYs that have dedicated message numbers." >-E >So it's really just the severity that is sensible on VMS. Apart fromeC >that, ZIP error codes have nothing to do with VMS condition codes.   I There is a discussion of this in the [.VMS-BINARIES]ZIP_CLI.HLP file thataK provides the list. Look for 2 Exit_Codes in this file to find this section..I -------------------------------------------------------------------------oI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)eI -------------------------------------------------------------------------h   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.546 ************************