1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 03 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 547       Contents: Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures * Re: Andrew Harrison (was: Fee Based Email) DS15 systems have arrived  Re: Excursion with decw$mwm @ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." E HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army I Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army  Re: Is the INFO-VAX still alive = Re: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems = Re: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems = Re: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems ) ITRC Patch Download FAQ for OpenVMS users 1 Re: OT: Is Linux Really More Secure Than Windows?  Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats!' Re: RMS provide API to directory files? ' Re: RMS provide API to directory files? ; Re: rx2600 OpenVMS I64 porting server (was: affordable VMS)  SHOW DEVICE/FULL DSA Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: TCPIP  Reject processing	 test news ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL 8 Re: USA - Alpha/VAX Hardware Field Engineers needed ASAP Re: Virtul Tape Driver Re: Virtul Tape Driver% Re: VMS graphics monitors for dummies  Re: VMS system on the web . Re: VMS731_DISMOU-V0100 - What are the issues?7 Re: VMS::Filespec vs. hardcoding in VMS.C in Perl 5.8.1 7 Re: VMS::Filespec vs. hardcoding in VMS.C in Perl 5.8.1 P You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Mark, Ca  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 11:20:57 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0310021020.33a68494@posting.google.com>   Z David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3F7C1EBE.10004@tsoft-inc.com>...+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11781  > 0 > Why Intel's Prescott will use AMD64 extensions ... S > So, why is this again? Simple, MS. Microsoft will not support a different 64 bit  Q > platform, and frankly I don't blame it, it costs a lot of money to do that. MS  R > gave Intel the choice, support AMD's instruction set, or do without Windows. MS ! > won that battle pretty handily.   E Why this doesn't make sense to me is that Microsoft has already had a F 64-bit version of Windows for Itanium available for quite a while, andF only recently added a 64-bit version for AMD.  So the work for ItaniumE appears to have been done first, and the additional work for AMD done A more recently.  It sounds like the writer here missed the earlier $ Itanium release of Windows entirely.  F In any case, it's far too soon to predict what the market will do withC respect to Itanium and Opteron, and Microsoft is obviously covering & both potential target market segments.   > So if the above is accurate    There's a big IF there.   L > The concept that after the IA-64 port was complete VMS would be much more O > generic and easily ported to other CPUs isn't as helpful as many would wish.  S > I've been told, by someone who will remain nameless but is in a position to give  M > an authorative opinion, that Opteron isn't any/much better than IA-32 with   > respect to a port of VMS.   E Isn't any/much better in what way?  Probability of a port?  Technical & features needed to support VMS?  What?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 18:36:59 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures9 Message-ID: <blhr8a$c5rba$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   = In article <cf15391e.0310021020.33a68494@posting.google.com>, 4 	keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:\ > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3F7C1EBE.10004@tsoft-inc.com>..., >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11781 >>  1 >> Why Intel's Prescott will use AMD64 extensions  > ... T >> So, why is this again? Simple, MS. Microsoft will not support a different 64 bit R >> platform, and frankly I don't blame it, it costs a lot of money to do that. MS S >> gave Intel the choice, support AMD's instruction set, or do without Windows. MS  " >> won that battle pretty handily. > G > Why this doesn't make sense to me is that Microsoft has already had a H > 64-bit version of Windows for Itanium available for quite a while, and1 > only recently added a 64-bit version for AMD.     E True, and now they are basicly saying, "This is it, no more different E 64bit versions".  Remember, INTEL was rumored to have had plans for a E 32/64 hybrid even after they supposedly killed Yamhill.  This basicly  tells INTEL, "Don't bother."  H >                                                So the work for ItaniumG > appears to have been done first, and the additional work for AMD done C > more recently.  It sounds like the writer here missed the earlier & > Itanium release of Windows entirely.  ) No, it's just that there will be no more.    > H > In any case, it's far too soon to predict what the market will do withE > respect to Itanium and Opteron, and Microsoft is obviously covering ( > both potential target market segments.  > Well, one can draw some pretty interesting inferences from it.   >  >> So if the above is accurate >  > There's a big IF there.  > M >> The concept that after the IA-64 port was complete VMS would be much more  P >> generic and easily ported to other CPUs isn't as helpful as many would wish. T >> I've been told, by someone who will remain nameless but is in a position to give N >> an authorative opinion, that Opteron isn't any/much better than IA-32 with  >> respect to a port of VMS. > G > Isn't any/much better in what way?  Probability of a port?  Technical ( > features needed to support VMS?  What?  G I believe he is refering to "Technical features needed to support VMS". E The argument has always been (at least from my limited understanding) B that the x86 acrhitecture lacked modes/features needed to make VMSE work as it is intended.  I don't know if anyone has officially looked . at AMD64 to see if the needed parts are there.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:41:18 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures) Message-ID: <3F7C714D.5B9058E8@istop.com>    "Main, Kerry" wrote:J > The fact is that, as the following Sun url indicates, Sun is having someG > data corruption difficulties with some of its systems as well, so Sun G > criticizing Intel for whatever HW issues it might be having is likely  > not a good thing to do.  >   G And considering that HP/Compaq have selected Intel, the inventor of the K Pentium random floating point arithmetic, they really shouldn't be pointing % fingers at others for hardware flaws.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:48:31 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 3 Subject: Re: Andrew Harrison (was: Fee Based Email) 2 Message-ID: <3q_eb.6199$zq3.5531@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <1m8u9QMIzkq5@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  :In article <blhd71$gh5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  : 
 :> rubbish : H :Sometimes there is a defining moment that causes a change in procedure.G :And sometimes it causes one to realize it is a change that should have  :been made long ago.  A   On the topic of Sun and the need for changes, here's an opinion    from Mr Cringely:   :     http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030213.html  D   This "How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems" wasB   posted way back in February, but I've only seen one or two otherD   mentions of this particular column here in the 'group -- and thereF   is certainly some additional information given recent events at Sun.     SUNY?  :-)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:06:09 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) " Subject: DS15 systems have arrivedL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0210031915220001@user-uinj0me.dialup.mindspring.com>  2 The DS15 has appeared on the alphaserver web page:  5 http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ds15/index.html   J "For businesses and service providers looking for superior performance andD reliability at a low price, the AlphaServer DS15 system demands your
 attention.  B The system's switch-based architecture takes full advantage of theI powerful 1 GHz Alpha processor, running your choice of the super-reliable E Tru64 UNIX or OpenVMS operating systems with HP's renowned clustering 
 capabilities.   G You can choose from three rack cabinets and an internal or front-access F storage cage. Put up to 13 systems in the largest cabinet, or add more# storage with Storageworks shelves."   A The QuickSpecs, Overview, Technical Summary, and User's Guide are  available from the above page.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:18:21 -0400 + From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com> $ Subject: Re: Excursion with decw$mwm) Message-ID: <3F7C4FCD.407414C9@yahoo.com>    meidan zemer wrote:  > 	 > Hi All, @ > We have a motif application which we run on PC with excursion.A > We are using the decw$mwm window manager insted of the one that H > excursion provide.Our problem is that when we run the decw$mwm, we can3 > not change the focused windows with alt-tab keys. F > When we tried to change window focus the focus is moving only from aC > none motif application, but within the motif applicaion the focus 0 > remains on the last windows that was in focus.C > I have tried to check it with the util XEV and i saw that the key @ > combination is pass to the window manager but not the event of > changing window focus.3 > Does anybody have an idea how can i make it work? 	 > Thanks,  > Meidan  C Since Alt-Tab is also used to by Windows to navigate between the MS D Windows windows that are active, that may conflict with what you are looking for with eXcursion.   F The X window Alt-Tab key sequence is configured in DECwindows MWM withF the file decw$mwm_rc.dat.  You can check to see if that file exists inF your login directory.  For Alt-Tab to work with the MWM it should have0 something like this in the key bindings section:   !               Key bindings !  Keys DefaultKeyBindings  {   ...B         Meta<Key>Tab            root|icon|window        f.next_keyB         Meta Shift<Key>Tab      root|icon|window        f.prev_key }   G If you're using eXcursion in root window or single window mode, you can B also get the same behavior as the Alt-Tab by holding Ctrl and thenF clicking on the root window.   This is done by adding the following to the button binding section:    !               Button Bindings  !  Buttons DefaultButtonBindings  {   ...:         Ctrl <Btn1Click>        root|icon|frame f.next_key:         Ctrl Shift <Btn1Click>  root|icon|frame f.prev_key }    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 12:43:11 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 3 Message-ID: <csmV8muiZ9S$@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <blh8qb$duv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  D > You have a client now that supports IMAP or whatever protocol thatD > you use to talk to your message store so you already have software* > on your system so whats the difference ?  C    Received is not the same as accepted.  And on some of my systems 7    the protocol that talks to the message store is RMS.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 12:44:41 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 3 Message-ID: <O9OqWxX+evD7@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <blhd71$gh5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  Q >> Not on VMS (which is the operating system under discussion in this newsgroup).  > 	 > rubbish  >  > Mozilla has an IMAP client  F    Which does not prove that we are using it.  I never use IMAP or POPC    to receive mail on my VMS systems.  I never use a web browser to D    receive mail on my VMS systems.  There's no reason that I should.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 15:20:15 GMT < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <blhfnf$hak$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  J In article <blh75m$t7p$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:L >So your not charging for mail at all. Your just adding an extra premium on J >traffic charges for shipping a particular type of packet - whether it is M >part of a valid transaction, lost packet - about to be dropped when it's TTL K >runs out, retransmitted packet because it didn't arrive within the timeout  >period etc etc   H But in most cases this packet will be part of a successfully transmitted e-mail.   M >You can get back maybe as far as the ISP on that basis. The ISP would have a 7 >hell of a job charging individual users on that basis. G >Individual user sent a mail message is understandable to the end user. O >Individual sent a packet - which then had to be retransmitted - so you pay for  >two mail messages isn't.  > E >So to cover itself the ISP increases it's monthly connection charge. L >The end user sees no difference - this has no effect on SPAM just increases) >connection charges up and down the line.   M This is true for a normal end-user but not for a spammer. I'm quite confident K that the ISP will charge every user that exceeds a certain mail limit. This < will happen in GB as well as in Brazil. This is what I want.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:12:42 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) ) Message-ID: <3F7C78A7.DF47F8F0@istop.com>   F If the fees for email servive (and the cost to administer the billing,U acocunting etc) exceed the cost of managing the spam, then it won't take off. period.    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:05:47 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) ) Message-ID: <bli3vb$92j$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   o In article <blhfnf$hak$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes: K >In article <blh75m$t7p$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes: M >>So your not charging for mail at all. Your just adding an extra premium on  K >>traffic charges for shipping a particular type of packet - whether it is  N >>part of a valid transaction, lost packet - about to be dropped when it's TTLL >>runs out, retransmitted packet because it didn't arrive within the timeout >>period etc etc > I >But in most cases this packet will be part of a successfully transmitted  >e-mail. > N >>You can get back maybe as far as the ISP on that basis. The ISP would have a8 >>hell of a job charging individual users on that basis.H >>Individual user sent a mail message is understandable to the end user.P >>Individual sent a packet - which then had to be retransmitted - so you pay for >>two mail messages isn't. >>F >>So to cover itself the ISP increases it's monthly connection charge.M >>The end user sees no difference - this has no effect on SPAM just increases * >>connection charges up and down the line. > N >This is true for a normal end-user but not for a spammer. I'm quite confidentL >that the ISP will charge every user that exceeds a certain mail limit. This= >will happen in GB as well as in Brazil. This is what I want.  >   I Sorry I doubt it will have any effect other than raising connection fees.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    	 >Regards,  >   Christoph Gartmann >  >-- F > Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 > Immunbiologie J > Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de > D-79011  Freiburg, Germany: >               http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:08:01 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) / Message-ID: <vnp8e3i3sp3o39@news.supernews.com>   7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3F7A6054.4631F2A5@istop.com...  > David Froble wrote: L > > The problem with filters at the receiving end is that the transfer takes place , > > before you make any filtering decisions. > J > Prior to the DATA phase when content is transfered, the SMTP negitiation > provides the received with: J > 1- authoritative address of the sender's IP address (from the receiver's	 IP stack) B > 2- a host/domain name from the HELO command. (non authoritative)D > 3- a return path email address from MAIL FROM: (non authoritative)J > 4- destination emails from RCPT TO: (only those destined for this host). > J > At the each RCPT TO:, the receiver has the option to refuse it and issue an* > error message. If the error is signaled.K > When the sender issues the DATA command, the receiver can issue a "sorry,  I & > don't want it" and close connection. > J > You cannot scan the contents for a virus without receiving that content. > K > You want the sender to give you a summary of the attachement ? He'll give  you L > a nice summary you are happy with, and when the recipient gives you the goK > ahead, you then send contents which totally differ and contain the virus.  >   B Yes, a hacker could do that with an bogus MTA but, a virus that is( replicating via e-mail couldn't do that.  K > One totally different approach would be to build a database of authorized  SMTPI > servers. Anyone with a fixed IP address could register, with legitimate  name, H > address etc. That person would then be held responsible for all emails coming > from that IP address.  >   H The two phase approach already does that.  Phase one says "You have mailK from HP.COM".  If you retrieve it and you don't like what you received, you L can contact the Adinistrative contact at HP.COM to complain.  In theory, youF must provide valid contact information when registering a domain name.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:14:15 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) / Message-ID: <vnp8po956sie4a@news.supernews.com>   I "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in message * news:blevq1$i6q$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de...@ > In article <vnlo22duetfpe1@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:L > >Come on, do the math!  $0.01 is cheap for a persons normal e-mail but, itL > >would kill Info-VAX.  If there are 10,000 subscribers, who's going to pay2 > >the $100.00 every time someone posts a message? > H > This is a problem specific to newsgroups mirrored as mailing lists and withI > most "subscribers" using newsreaders and a small amount using e-mail. A  listC > with 10,000 subscribers could receive 10,000 $ a month from every 
 subscriberL > (or better 12 $ per year and subscriber) which would be pretty sufficient. WithL > a fee of 0.01 $ this would equal to 33,333 messages per day. I will reduce the  > subscription price...   L If you start charging $12 per year to join a mailing list you will kill most mailing lists.  G Even if the 10,000 people paid their $12 and you had a budget of 33,000 I messages per day, that means that the list can only afford 3 messages per < day because it's going to send the message to 10,000 people.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 12:46:30 -0500 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."3 Message-ID: <ZgepS+uxpo6a@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <blhc8t$g8h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Simon Clubley wrote: >>  E >> Andrew, as I said before, I am not going to get involved in a long M >> pointless debate with you, so I will just point out I don't convict on the L >> basis of innuendo, but facts, and that HP didn't get listed in SCO's lastB >> 10-Q as providing a major source of income to SCO, but Sun did. >>   > C > Unless you can prove that there is a link between Sun's licensing D > deal with SCO and SCO's court case with IBM then all you have left > is innuendo !  >  > What else do you have ?  >   N I don't believe that I need anything else. I believe the information available1 to date is evidence. You do not think that it is.   G We are just not going to agree on this evidence, so we will have to see J if further evidence emerges when either (a) the trial starts or (b) if SCOG collapses (in either case _everything_ is going to get discussed in the I smallest detail). Sun could also do something in the meantime (either pro G or against SCO) that will make their position _very_ clear to everyone.   J As I said above, I am not going to get involved in a long pointless debateE with you rehashing the same evidence over and over again. You know my  position, and I know yours.    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:05:40 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)N Subject: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army1 Message-ID: <03100217054084@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    Watch the WRAP!    www.computerworld.com E /governmenttopics/government/story/0,10801,85632,00.html?nas=PM-85632          J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 23:11:04 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)R Subject: Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army9 Message-ID: <bliba8$cjfdu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   1 In article <03100217054084@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, + 	brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:  > Watch the WRAP!  >  > www.computerworld.com G > /governmenttopics/government/story/0,10801,85632,00.html?nas=PM-85632  >   G Makes a good read, but everything you read in the paper does not always E turn out the way it looks, especially when you are talking government E contracting.  Anybody here, other than me, think immediately of ULANA  when they read this?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:38:22 -0700 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>( Subject: Re: Is the INFO-VAX still alive% Message-ID: <3f7c466f@cpns1.saic.com>    Rudolf Wingert wrote:  > Hello, > P > since two days I don't get any Email from the INFO-VAX. So my question ist: is > it still alive?  >   > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert >   I There is nothing wrong with Info-VAX.  There is a problem with your mail  & server.  Here is a partial transcript:  3 15:32:02: Trying to connect to MAILGATE.FOM.FGAN.DE C 15:32:03: 220 orion.fw.fom.fgan.de ESMTP Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:32:03  2 +0200. Everything you do is logged, don't spam us. 15:32:03: HELO MVB.SAIC.COM F 15:32:03: 250 orion.fw.fom.fgan.de Hello mvb.saic.com [198.151.12.104]' 15:32:03: Processing message #: 5398319 3 15:32:03: MAIL FROM:<Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com> F 15:32:03: 250 <Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com> is syntactically correctF 15:32:03: RCPT TO:<xyz@FOM.FGAN.DE.spam>  <- I have edited your email  address - 15:32:03: 250 <xyz@FOM.FGAN.DE.spam> verified  15:32:03: DATA@ 15:32:04: 354 Enter message, ending with "." on a line by itself; 15:32:04: 421 Unexpected failure, please try later <- NOTE.  15:32:04: RSET 15:32:04: 250 Reset OK  I Every message I try to send you is being rejected this way.  You need to     get your email server fixed.  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:26:26 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> F Subject: Re: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems3 Message-ID: <3F7C6DD2.11A3942B@applied-synergy.com>    Nic Clews wrote: > E > The terminal server port is set up for remote access, hardware flow J > (CTS) 115200 fixed speed ordinary LAT (I'm not using IP on this server).F > I've experimented with 8 bit, 7 bit, 1,2 and dynamic stop bit (but IH > left it on 8, no parity 2 stop bit). I have also tried another port onH > the same server, and switching off the modem/hardware control signals.   FWIW:   7 The only time I have seen 2 stop bits used is 110 baud.   F These days, the vast majority of asynchronous communication is 1 startF bit, eight data bits, one stop bit.  The eight data bits can be either= eight bits, no parity, or seven bits and parity of some sort.   G Does the ISDN TA provide an asynchronous serial interface?  if it has a F synchronous interface, I don't know whether or not it will work with a DECserver 700.  ? Are you testing communications from a terminal connected to the D DECserver or are you testing from the host through a LAT connection?  F If from the host, make sure that the port's flow control is set /MODEMD or /COMSYNC and /PASTHRU.  I have seen weird things when the host is; using XON/XOFF and the port is using hardware flow control.   G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:59:33 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>F Subject: Re: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems) Message-ID: <3F7C7593.2DE64121@istop.com>    Nic Clews wrote:J > When using a VT520 terminal directly to the Terminal adapter, I can dial9 > out and make a 64k connection and get the login prompts   G > Now, if I connect up the ISDN TA to the DS700, I can't get a response J > from the TA. I have a RS232 mini tester which is showing all the correct > signals, yet, nothing*.   M I realise that at 115k baud, it might be hard, but when you send stuff to the + TA, can you see the SD/RD lights flashing ?   N When your VT520 is connected to the TA, at what speed does it talk to the TA ?  L And where do you monitor the RS232 signals ? In the RJ45 side or in the DB25 side ?J Consider the case where the terminal server may not see the right signals,M even though your probe, near the TA might see them. The Terminal server would N then be in the moral equivalent of an XOFF state and not send stuff to the TA.  E > * Not exactly nothing. I get the lowercase y with two dots, hex FD,  > occasionally.   H Does the TA have some sort of autobaud capability ? For instance, normalN "hayes" modems require that you send the characters AT so that it can adapt toK your RS232 communications characteristics. VMS requires that the very first H character you send be a CR so it can adapt to your characteristics. SendQ anything else as first character, and VMS chooses essentially a random speed etc.   M Is it possible your terminal server might be sending some "connected" message N to the TA when you remotely connect to that service/port, which would screw up its autobauding logic ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:07:03 +0100   From: nic <spamthis@[127.0.0.1]>F Subject: Re: ISDN terminal adapter on DECserver communication problems4 Message-ID: <bliaso$4p3$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Nic Clews wrote: ...   L This is a reply to all that did reply, H, Chris and JF provided good advice.  I The problem actually turned out to be that there is a separate RX ground  H and TX ground, and I was missing the RX ground. I connected that to the H TX ground (pin 7 on the DB25) and it worked, and I got a 64k connection.  H I created an ordinary LTA port, and I didn't need to use passall, but I G assume that when the PPP connection takes over that is what happens. I  H can't show terminal as it says it's a network device, same as the modem  did on a TX port.   3 I'll put it back to dynamic stop bits... Or even 1.   I The TA does do Synch to asych conversion, and the "synch" light does not   come on.  H And I did miss that off, yes the TA does have autobaud, however I fixed F it, one setting does force a fixed rate. It made no difference, then, I not sure why, I just got hold of the pin I'd not connected and kluged it  @ into the pin 7 hole along with the TX ground, and it all worked.  D I'm not sure why the ordinary modem worked, unless the I/O shares a I common ground. Obviously the TA does not, and connecting it is important.   F What I noticed was the mini tester lights "brightened". The DTR light D was quite dim, until I connected the RX and TX ground. It is a DB25 E tester, I am using one of those RJ45 do-it-yourself flying pin plugs.     Thanks again, it is appreciated.   Nic % nclews at csc dot com (from 64k home)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:52:25 GMT 2 From: "George Pagliarulo" <georgepag@adelphia.net>2 Subject: ITRC Patch Download FAQ for OpenVMS users2 Message-ID: <Jt_eb.6200$Gx3.5516@news.cpqcorp.net>  J    I've compiled the questions and comments I've received from users aboutK the new ITRC patch download site into an FAQ.  Hopefully this will help the D transition to the new site go smoother and answer a lot of lingering
 questions.   George Pagliarulo  Hewlett-Packard Company  george.pagliarulo@hp.com    E                             ITRC Patch Download FAQ for OpenVMS Users     * 1.0 Access to the ITRC Patch Download Site. ----------------------------------------------  3 1.1  Why is the old patch download site going away?   D As a result of the HP - Compaq merger the various patch distributionK processes used in the two companies were evaluated with the goal to move to G a single, unified solution. That evaluation showed that the existing HP L patch distribution process (IT Resource Center or ITRC) included many usefulK features lacking in the Compaq OpenVMS patch distribution process and could L be modified to provide additional features that VMS users required. Based onE that, the decision was made to migrate the OpenVMS patch distribution  process to the ITRC.  ( 1.2 When will the old site be shut down?  J The old patch distribution site (http://www.support.compaq.com/patches/ orJ ftp://ftp.support.compaq.com/public/) is scheduled to be shut down OctoberK 31, 2003. Customers who attempt to access the old site after it is shutdownPD will be redirected to the new patch download site at www.itrc.hp.com  4 1.3 What is the URL for the new patch download site?  L The URL for the new ITRC site is http://www.itrc.hp.com. Users should updateH their bookmarks to point to this web site for patch retrieval of OpenVMSK patches. Users are encouraged to begin familiarizing themselves with the HPiD ITRC patch web site before the existing patch server is shutdown, to2 minimize any disruption to online patch retrieval.  2 1.4 Can I still use FTP to access OpenVMS patches?  L Yes, FTP access is NOT going away when the old site is discontinued. You canE still access kits via anonymous FTP on the ITRC site by connecting towE ftp.itrc.hp.com  or to ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com  from your browser. ITRCeL registration is not required to use FTP access. Internal users behind the HPJ firewall may need to set PASSIVE mode ON when using FTP to access the ITRC FTP directories.  8 1.5 Do I have to use a PC to access the ITRC patch site?  J No, there are two ways to access the ITRC via your OpenVMS system. You can; use FTP ftp.itrc.hp.com or you can use the Mozilla browser.p  L 1.6 Where can I get a browser to use on my VMS system to access the ITRC web site?   0 You can download any of the browsers for VMS at:  8      http://h71000.www7.hp.com/ebusiness/technology.html   Browsers are also available at:f       http://www.mozilla.org/d  . 1.7 Why do I have to register for ITRC access?  I Registering for an HP ITRC login is required to find and retrieve patches J via the HP ITRC web interface. This ensures that we can contact anyone whoL may have downloaded a patch for which a serious problem is later discovered.3 Registration is unrestricted and open to all users.   H 1.8 Why doesn't my Americas ITRC registration work for the European ITRC site?h  I The Americas ITRC site assigns and expects user IDs that start with "CA", L the European site assigns and expects user IDs that start with "BR". The twoI ITRC logins are not transferable between the Americas and European sites.oI Customers who want to access both sites need to register at each site and-' receive the unique CA and BR login IDs.:  * 1.9 Why isn't my contract number accepted?  E When you register for the ITRC you will see an option to link Support1K Contracts with your HP ITRC login. This does NOT work for pre-merger CompaqoK contract numbers. The way this is being handled is that as Compaq contractsnK expire and are re-issued with HP contracts, those new contract numbers willoK be accepted by ITRC registration. You can access all patch content and mostiK other HP ITRC services without a linked support contract. Support Contracts K are only necessary for a few HP ITRC services related to some pre-merger HPt products only.   2.0 Locating Kitsh ------------------  ? 2.1 Why are the old and new FTP directory structures different?l  J The ITRC FTP site has general version directories such as V7.3x and V7.2x.L This structure matches that used for other HP operating systems. However, itK does not accommodate VMS users' needs. This structure is changing and theseeL directories will be replaced by specific OpenVMS V7.3-1, V7.3, V7.2-1H1 etc.L directories. The Alpha V6.2x directory will not be changed since the kits inJ this directory apply to all V6.2 variants. These changes will occur beforeB the old server is shutdown. Note that the advanced patch searchingL features - patch dependency relationships and multiple patch downloads - are( not available from the HP ITRC FTP site.   2.2 Where are the UPDATE kits?  L When you access the new site via FTP you will not see the UPDATE kits in theH various version directories. Instead, the UPDATE kits are located in theJ patch_bundles/openvms directory structure. This is changing and the UPDATEI kits will be moved to the specific VMS version directories, e.g., V7.3-1,aC V7.3. This change is scheduled to be done in the October timeframe.-  J 2.3 I only want to see the most recent, installation rating 1 patches. How can I search for only those?R  E To search by date you can use wildcard characters with the "Search byrK Keyword" option. Use a question mark (?) to match any single character, andkD an asterisk (*) to match multiple characters. Using wildcards, it isK possible to search for all patches posted within a given month by including>G a date string in the keyword field. Since the patch post date is always I recorded in yyyymmdd format, entering "200308*" in the keyword field willi) return all patches posted in August 2003.   J Currently there is no reliable way to search by rating. New patches issuedL have INSTALL_1, INSTALL_2, INSTALL_3 keywords in the documentation but olderL patches do not have those keywords. We will soon be adding those keywords toK the patch documents for all the patches listed. When that happens, you willwF be able to search using those rating as keywords in the keyword field.H Keywords can also be combined using the Boolean search criteria for moreC advanced searches. For example, entering "INSTALL_1 AND (200308* ORoI 200309*)" will return all patches posted during the past 2 months with and install rating of 1.  H In a future release of the ITRC GUI, the post date of each patch will beJ displayed in the notes area for each patch, and the search results will beH sorted by Installation rating and post date from newest to oldest. These1 changes are expected in the January ITRC release.n   2.4 Can I search by patch ID?h  L The "Search by Patch IDs" option was designed to quickly search for specificL patches when the patch IDs are already known. Wildcard characters ("*", "?")A are not recognized with the "Search by Patch IDs" option, and areeK interpreted literally. More than one patch ID can be entered in the "SearchtK by Patch IDs" field (separated by spaces or commas) to search for more than I one patch at a time. Although it is possible to only enter a portion of aeI patch ID in the "Search by Patch IDs" field (e.g. LINKER), only the firsteB matching patch will be returned for each "word" entered. Since theB corresponding patch ID is included in each patch document, you canK workaround this by using the "Search by Keyword" option to find all patches J by product or facility. The ability to return multiple search results whenF searching by patch ID is under investigation, and may be included in a future ITRC release.  J 2.5 Why do the search results display multiple columns with the same patch IDs?  K When you browse or do a keyword search for patches, the search results listIJ two patch ID columns - "Recommended" and "Most Recent". If you do a searchJ by Patch ID, three columns are returned - "Recommended", "Most Recent" andK ""Specified". These columns have meaning for other HP operating systems butiH are not relevant to the way OpenVMS distributes patches. The ITRC GUI isL being updated to reflect the needs of OpenVMS patch searches. In the future,L a search for OpenVMS patches by keyword or browsing patches will return onlyI the "Most Recent" column of results. A search by Patch ID will return the8I "Specified" and Most Recent" columns. The Patch ID search will return twoSH columns because users may enter superseded patch IDs. Note that only theD "Most Recent" patch will be able to be downloaded. These changes are% expected in the January ITRC release.   4 2.7 Where are the patches for older versions of VMS?  I The ITRC site will have two sides. An "active" side that contains patches E for supported versions of VMS and an "archive" side that will contain K patches for older versions of VMS. The Active part of the site is currently0K up. The Archive side of the site is not yet available. It will be availableaE before the October shutdown of the old site and will have a directorypC structure similar to the old FTP site. Note that the advanced patchgE searching features, patch dependency relationships and multiple patch@6 downloads are not available from the HP ITRC FTP site.  + 2.8 Why aren't all kits on the active site?s  J The old patch download site allowed multiple binary files to be listed forH one kit, e.g. multiple VMSINSTAL savesets. The ITRC site only allows oneJ binary file per kit. This meant that any kit with multiple binaries had toL be repackaged into a single binary file. In addition, because of differencesK in the naming convention used for VMS kit documents and the requirements oneK the ITRC site, the text file for each kit that was moved to the active sidenE of the ITRC site had to be re-processed. It was decided to not expendtI valuable resources to do this work for older, unsupported versions of thec operating system.    3.0 Downloading Patches- --------------------------  F 3.1 Why does the download page require me to select a download format?  K You only need to select a download format if you have multiple kits in yourrL shopping cart and want to download them with one operation. The kits need toI be repackaged into one downloadable file, so, under the heading "download L items in one operation", you are asked to select the format desired. For VMSK kits, the format selected should be ZIP. Note that if you download multiple-I kits in a package, you will need to expand that package on your system toeB get the individual kits. Since kits on the ITRC site are stored asI self-extracting executables (as they were on the old site), you will thenuI need to expand each of those self-extracting files to arrive at the finals installable kit file.tL If you are downloading a single kit there is no need to select a format. YouL can simply elect an HTTP or FTP download under the section heading "download items individually".  6 3.2 How do I know what the dependencies are for a kit?  K VMS patches have two types of dependencies, required dependencies which are L kits that must be installed first, before the target kit gets installed, andL optional dependencies, kits that should be installed with the target kit butK are at the discretion of the user. For new kits being issued, both types of-D dependencies will be listed at the top of the kit document, in a kitK information header, as well as the usual spots in the body of the document.DJ When you select a kit for download, if it has required dependencies, thoseK kits will also be added to your "shopping cart". The user has the option togG remove them from the cart (e.g. if the dependent kits have already been.I downloaded). Optional dependencies will not automatically be added to thes1 shopping cart. The user will have to select them.c  * 3.3 How can I download the kit .TXT files?  L The .TXT files are included in the self-extracting binary file. Once the kitJ is expanded, the document (called the Release Notes) can be extracted fromI the binary file or will be placed in the system help directory during kit I installation. FTP can also be used to download the .TXT file from the FTP  directories.   3.0 Patch Notificationss ------------------------  F 3.1 How can I get notified of new patches when the old site goes away?  J Digests are the way you get notified of new kits. You need to register forL them but registration is open and does NOT require a contact number. DigestsI are issued weekly. There is a known problem with the digests in that they J pick up all or almost all the ECO's that are released rather than just theI ECO's released since the last digest was issued. The problem is fixed butsL unfortunately the fix can not be implemented until there is a new release ofK the ITRC GUI. That will happen in October. When it does, you should not seedL more than 5 to 8 ECOs in a VMS digest, probably a lot less most of the time.F If no ECO's have been released for the week, no digest will be issued.  ; 3.2 Why aren't digests available for versions besides V7.x?   F Earlier versions are not fully supported and will not have any future,- generally available kits issued against them.n  F 3.3 How can I get immediate notice of critical patches for issues like security problems?  K If there is a critical patch that customers need to know about immediately,-C a Customer Advisory is issued that details the problem and what theoL corrective action is - usually a pointer to the applicable kit. The CustomerJ Advisories go out through a completely different process than the ITRC andH have no time restrictions. They will go to customers as soon as they are	 released.t  1 3.3 Why aren't checksums listed on the ITRC site?   J The VMS kitting process never issued checksums. Those were added as a postI processing step by the process that loaded the kits onto the distributionyI site, once the kits were released by VMS. To make up for the loss of that D function when the old process does go away, VMS kits now include theL checksum in the documentation. The .TXT files for new kits now have a headerK at the top that lists critical information like installation rating, reboot:D requirement, kit size, and the checksum value. This has already been implemented.L We are looking at how to get the checksums moved over for the older kits butJ that may not be possible. At most, efforts will be concentrated on gettingJ checksums added to the documentation for the most recent OpenVMS versions.   4.0 Getting Help -----------------t  I 4.1 Why don't ITRC help pages and other documentation talk about OpenVMS?h  G The ITRC patch site is a pre-merger application. As part of the work tovJ update this site to handle OpenVMS needs, all online help documentation isI being reviewed to identify updates necessary to make the documentation be-L more inclusive of OpenVMS. Although OpenVMS is not specifically mentioned inL the ITRC documentation pertaining to patches, the patch information is still applicable to OpenVMS   B 4.2 Who do I contact for help or to report problems with the ITRC?  H Select the "contact hp" link in the upper left corner of any HP ITRC webH page and select "ask a question about using the IT resource center" link4 under the "e-mail hp" heading on the following page.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:48:18 -0400h* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>: Subject: Re: OT: Is Linux Really More Secure Than Windows?) Message-ID: <3F7C72F1.560B0205@istop.com>b  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:E > Mozilla and Evolution support attachements that can be executables,w > we use both in Sun.a  H > difference. BLAST exploited a bug, Sobig a standard feature of OutlookE > and while you could I think turn that standard feature off it would @ > not protect you from a user clicking on the attachment itself.  L Why the 4-letter-word would any one configure a mail client to execute files. of a certain type received as an attachement ?  I Good old netscape on a MAC doesn't seem to have the ability to execute anhM attachement of APPL type. (not that I know of at least). Its table has a list H of mime types and either a plug in or helper application. In the case ofL helper applications, the attachement is saved and the application is spawned! with the file name as "argument".   I I really do not see any reason for any mail client to have the ability to54 actually execute an attachement. It is plain stupid.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:37:05 -0500 $ From: chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!-8 Message-ID: <rsronv077pg05hvq3tugqokm3djnjb1iq9@4ax.com>  B On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:22:27 -0500, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:  F >On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> >wrote:f >e >>I >>I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing c >x >*plonk*  D Note to the troll.  I  didn't read  your response, because you're anD idiot and I knew it was you because I don't make it a habit to replyE to my own messages.  This applies to any other responses you may haveo made to me recently, as well.   E P.S. You're a total loser.  Pull your pants up, turn your hat around,n and get a job.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 12:23:24 -0700 + From: sandra@bluebirds-mad.co.uk (deadl!nk)d' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!u= Message-ID: <dac6f860.0310021123.73ff0e29@posting.google.com>u  K > Let me tell you about a totally superior OS, VMS.  VMS is without doubt,  I > the most intuative, helpful OS that has ever existed.  The help system  I > is the best ever, and will tell you exactly what you want to know, and tG > how to execute a command properly.  VMS is by far the most stable OS pG > going, requiring no periodical pathes, only an upgrade (if you want) eJ > every 2 or 3 years.  It doesn't get viruses of any sort whatsoever, and K > does not suffer from denial of service attacks that both Linucks (or any sK > usix) and Winshite does.  In fact it is superior to all OSs in every way.   & You have got to be fucking kidding me!? VMS is an obsolete steaming pile of shit! It only worked on onesE hardware platform, and had plenty of problems of it's own. Windows ishD a steaming pile of shit too, but at least it's not VMS. I think evenD the fucking Wintrolls should be fucking flaming you on that one, you poor old pathetic VMtroll.   > I > I will continue to lurk in your groups for a laugh, but remember this:-w > J > Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people who  > are stupid to begin with.e >    oohh, I'm scared. 2 what are you going to do throw your VMS box at me? Fuckwite       >  >  > The Genius.....   8 Yeah, when it comes to being a VMfagot, you're the best.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 12:25:55 -0700h+ From: sandra@bluebirds-mad.co.uk (deadl!nk)n' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!G= Message-ID: <dac6f860.0310021125.52404044@posting.google.com>t  o "Diogenes" <diogenes@Laertius.gr> wrote in message news:<414316d7399be876fde9227181b16899@news.teranews.com>...  > Sinister Midget wrote: > > Read that, Windozer. > 6 > Read what?  It must be true: linux makes you stupid.  ) And anything else makes you a fucknugget.@ Get a life Winsucker.s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:53:24 +01004 From: "Peter Khlmann" <Peter.Koehlmann@t-online.de>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!m, Message-ID: <bli384.2js.1@in_cog_ni_to_.com>  % chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote: = >> I knew it was you because I don't make it a habit to replyo >> to my own messages.   Clissy,    I new it vas him two.r   <who is he?>  @ Hef you ficurd out wat ve most do to clash zer OE ploglams yezt?  G You cally on mit dat und, /I/ /VIL/ /ARSK/ /ZE/ /QVESTIONS/ /UND/ /ZEY/d /VIL/ /ANSSER/ /ZEM/!!   Jawohl, mein Schatz? --	 Peter xxxo   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Oct 2003 20:34:56 GMT2 From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@squeeeez.no-ip.com>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!e1 Message-ID: <slrnbnp2vg.1oj.thierry@VENUS.Family>   B In article <bli384.2js.1@in_cog_ni_to_.com>, Peter Khlmann wrote:   [...]r  B > Hef you ficurd out wat ve most do to clash zer OE ploglams yezt? > C > You cally on mit dat und, /I/ /VIL/ /ARSK/ /ZE/ /QVESTIONS/ /UND/a > /ZEY/ /VIL/ /ANSSER/ /ZEM/!!  . Should one feel bad if one is able to read it?   Thierryt   --  ? I will tell you if you solemnly promise to tell everybody else.   --Oscar Wilde   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:13:28 GMT 1 From: "hastur@lakehali" <cfzeitler@sbcglobal.net>d' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!r: Message-ID: <pan.2003.10.02.20.13.18.861214@sbcglobal.net>  5 On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius wrote:h   > I > I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing hF > at the trolls from both sides, having a go at each others OS, and I H > can't help feeeling that the lot of you are complete loosers.  Let me  > break it down as follows:- >  > Linucks Lusers:i > K > Linfux (or any unix in general) is the biggest piece of shit going. it's aK > had its day in the seventies, and just doesn't know when its time is up. -B >   The man pages were written by geeks for geeks, and is totally H > unintuitive, and is about as much help as turd that wont flush.  Only E > complete morons, with very long hair and smelly beards (ie richard n! > stallman) uses unix these days.  >  >  > Windozers: > K > What a completly fucked up OS that is.   Based upon a superior OS (VMS), tG > but bastardised into a complete piece of shit, with so many security fA > holes, its a wonder the whole planet is not sueing the butt of rH > Microshite.  Can someone answer a simple question?  Why the fuck does J > windoze servers require a GUI to work.  It doesn't need it!!!  Its just C > a file, print and possiblly a database server.  No GUI required! sK > Everything can be done from the command line.  Does microshite know that e+ > is products will be used to total morons?r >  >  > K > Let me tell you about a totally superior OS, VMS.  VMS is without doubt,  I > the most intuative, helpful OS that has ever existed.  The help system hI > is the best ever, and will tell you exactly what you want to know, and aG > how to execute a command properly.  VMS is by far the most stable OS oG > going, requiring no periodical pathes, only an upgrade (if you want) tJ > every 2 or 3 years.  It doesn't get viruses of any sort whatsoever, and K > does not suffer from denial of service attacks that both Linucks (or any aK > usix) and Winshite does.  In fact it is superior to all OSs in every way.h > I > I will continue to lurk in your groups for a laugh, but remember this:-  > J > Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people who  > are stupid to begin with.m >  >  >  > The Genius.....t  
 I give up. What makes you so smart?  % Hastur --between the spaces, you know    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:25:10 GMT 1 From: "hastur@lakehali" <cfzeitler@sbcglobal.net>o' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!n: Message-ID: <pan.2003.10.02.20.25.11.422382@sbcglobal.net>   BTW,  5 We have; linux does not require you to have a 133 IQ,  a College education,  or conformation to a dress code.  & Hastur --between the spaces, you know    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:28:57 GMT ' From: "Diogenes" <diogenes@Laertius.gr> ' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!I@ Message-ID: <21d45360676d8573ebff1e6c59cfa5a2@news.teranews.com>   deadl!nk wrote: 4 > "Diogenes" <diogenes@Laertius.gr> wrote in message? > news:<414316d7399be876fde9227181b16899@news.teranews.com>... a >> Sinister Midget wrote:f >>> Read that, Windozer. >>  7 >> Read what?  It must be true: linux makes you stupid.d > + > And anything else makes you a fucknugget.m > Get a life Winsucker.t    3 Do you usually jump in and make a fool of yourself?o   --   Diogenes Laertiusa   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:12:47 +0100t' From: The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> ' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! ( Message-ID: <3F7C94CF.9040203@bigIQ.com>   Patrick van Loon wrote:t > Just one question. > " > What OS are you running at home? >  > 6 > "The Genius" <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> wrote in message" > news:3F7B66B4.50404@bigIQ.com... > H >>I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughingE >>at the trolls from both sides, having a go at each others OS, and I0G >>can't help feeeling that the lot of you are complete loosers.  Let me. >>break it down as follows:- >> >>Linucks Lusers:2 >>J >>Linfux (or any unix in general) is the biggest piece of shit going. it'sJ >>had its day in the seventies, and just doesn't know when its time is up.A >>  The man pages were written by geeks for geeks, and is totallylG >>unintuitive, and is about as much help as turd that wont flush.  OnlyeD >>complete morons, with very long hair and smelly beards (ie richard! >>stallman) uses unix these days.7 >> >> >>Windozers: >>J >>What a completly fucked up OS that is.   Based upon a superior OS (VMS),F >>but bastardised into a complete piece of shit, with so many security@ >>holes, its a wonder the whole planet is not sueing the butt ofG >>Microshite.  Can someone answer a simple question?  Why the fuck doescI >>windoze servers require a GUI to work.  It doesn't need it!!!  Its justhB >>a file, print and possiblly a database server.  No GUI required!J >>Everything can be done from the command line.  Does microshite know that+ >>is products will be used to total morons?  >> >> >>J >>Let me tell you about a totally superior OS, VMS.  VMS is without doubt,H >>the most intuative, helpful OS that has ever existed.  The help systemH >>is the best ever, and will tell you exactly what you want to know, andF >>how to execute a command properly.  VMS is by far the most stable OSF >>going, requiring no periodical pathes, only an upgrade (if you want)I >>every 2 or 3 years.  It doesn't get viruses of any sort whatsoever, and J >>does not suffer from denial of service attacks that both Linucks (or anyK >>usix) and Winshite does.  In fact it is superior to all OSs in every way.  >>I >>I will continue to lurk in your groups for a laugh, but remember this:-  >>I >>Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people whoE >>are stupid to begin with.o >> >> >> >>The Genius.....B >> >> >  >  >  > : >  Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services< > ----------------------------------------------------------9 >     ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **eD > ----------------------------------------------------------        ' >                 http://www.usenet.comm  I Erm, depends on what I feel like on any particular day.  I run Slackware AG 9, Windows XP, OpenBSD.  I just swap the disks out  when I feel like a :B change.  This week its Windows 2003, thanks to a freebie timebomb ' version I get from a microsoft seminar.g    ( The Genius (or split personality.com)...  G By the way, my post(s) last night was done under the influance of many -' pints of beer with the lads after work.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:53:20 +0200 F From: Peter =?ISO-8859-15?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <Peter.Koehlmann@t-online.de>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!n/ Message-ID: <bli363$rsm$07$1@news.t-online.com>l   Peter Khlmann wrote:r  ' > chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:2> >>> I knew it was you because I don't make it a habit to reply >>> to my own messages.8 > 	 > Clissy,2 >  > I new it vas him two.  >  > <who is he?> > B > Hef you ficurd out wat ve most do to clash zer OE ploglams yezt? > I > You cally on mit dat und, /I/ /VIL/ /ARSK/ /ZE/ /QVESTIONS/ /UND/ /ZEY/m > /VIL/ /ANSSER/ /ZEM/!! >  > Jawohl, mein Schatz? > -- > Peter xxxr  ? Feeling /real/ clever to impersonate someone else, dimmest wit?  -- t* If you had any brains, you'd be dangerous.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:31:13 -0700' From: "Doug" <DeliverSpam@Landfill.Cum>n' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!f8 Message-ID: <3f7c98e9$0$98046$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>   Peter Khlmann wrote:t > Peter Khlmann wrote:  >m( >> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:? >>>> I knew it was you because I don't make it a habit to reply  >>>> to my own messages. >>
 >> Clissy, >> >> I new it vas him two. >> >> <who is he?>  >>C >> Hef you ficurd out wat ve most do to clash zer OE ploglams yezt?h >>D >> You cally on mit dat und, /I/ /VIL/ /ARSK/ /ZE/ /QVESTIONS/ /UND/ >> /ZEY/ /VIL/ /ANSSER/ /ZEM/!!c >> >> Jawohl, mein Schatz?  >> --: >> Peter xxx > A > Feeling /real/ clever to impersonate someone else, dimmest wit?     ? He's real (look at his mastery of German), you're the imposter.0   -- r I'm a Typical Linuxfuckm$ Linux Users (lusers) are gay like me "Linux made me stupid"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:57:40 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!i) Message-ID: <3F7C913A.8CD8C656@istop.com>    "deadl!nk" wrote: A > VMS is an obsolete steaming pile of shit! It only worked on oneo< > hardware platform, and had plenty of problems of it's own.  J Just for the record, VMS works on VAX, Alpha, and through emulators, 32bitH Intel 8086 systems. It is being ported to the unwanted IA64 thing due toV politics and hopefully will be ported to a real chip once HP admits IA64 is a mistake.  J VMS is state of the art in terms of clustering, disaster tolerance. It hasJ both a character cell and X gui interface. It has TCPIP stack, web serversN etc. It has solid security. So the word "obsolete" doesn't really apply to it.M Both Unix and Windows are struggling to catch up to VMS for system stability,dM clustering etc. (and in the case of windows, Digital had even donated much oftM VMS intellectual property to Microsoft but the later failed to implement it).d  B The problem with VMS isn't technical, it is its lack of marketing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:42:38 +0100r' From: The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>i' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!n( Message-ID: <3F7C9BCE.5060306@bigIQ.com>   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > A >> Could this be the start of the OpenVMS marketing campaign thatn: >> everyone has been hoping HP will launch sometime soon ? >> >> Lets hope not.o >>J > Actually, the originator of the posting, cross-posted to Linux, VMS and H > Windows lists, so it would seem he is attempting to create an OS feud I > between lists...  Spin it into action by spewing is nonsense, and then - > sit back and laugh...0 >  > Barryo >   H Yes you are absolutely right, in a way.  Basically, under the influence A of lots of beer yesterday, I decided to concoct a piece of total oF bullshit.  Why? I hear you ask.  Because I've been watching the Linux F and Windows crowd flame and troll each other for ages now, and I have G even responded to some of the posts that are sent.  It all seem rather  G pointless somehow.  But both groups fell for it hook, line and sinker. cF It says allot about the VMS users that they did not fall for the bait.  G BTW, as it happens, I am very fond of OpenVMS.  And even though I have lB not used it for some years now, it will always be my favourite OS.  H BTW (again), HP are not to be trusted.  They are attempting to kill off G True64 (or OSF/1 in my day) and they are even more desperate to do the  C same to OpenVMS. Please don't let this happen. Diversity in the OS o. market place is what I.T. should be all about.   Cheers   The Not so Genious....   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:48:28 +0100t' From: The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>s' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! ( Message-ID: <3F7C9D2C.1010006@bigIQ.com>   Diogenes wrote:w > deadl!nk wrote:l > 4 >>"Diogenes" <diogenes@Laertius.gr> wrote in message? >>news:<414316d7399be876fde9227181b16899@news.teranews.com>... g >> >>>Sinister Midget wrote:l >>>i >>>>Read that, Windozer. >>> 7 >>>Read what?  It must be true: linux makes you stupid.4 >>+ >>And anything else makes you a fucknugget.e >>Get a life Winsucker.2 >  >  > 5 > Do you usually jump in and make a fool of yourself?: >   3 Yes, sometimes.  Generally when I'm stupidly drunk!_   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:52:30 +0100m' From: The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> ' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! & Message-ID: <3F7C9E1E.70004@bigIQ.com>  
 chrisv wrote:e' > chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:g > H >>>On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>	 >>>wrote:  >>>  >>> J >>>>I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing >>>h
 >>>*plonk* >> > 	 > *PLANK*- >  >  >  >  *PLINK*-   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 07:44:20 +1000y, From: "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!s4 Message-ID: <8GxT4yQSaDBzB0005265KWS6LflPWwji@5.net>   The Genius wrote:   H > By the way, my post(s) last night was done under the influance of many) > pints of beer with the lads after work.   H You have what is known as Synapse Syndrome syndrome. Seek urgent medical) attention. I recommend Dr Jack Kevorkian.i   -- t@ Kadaitcha Man: Kicking fuckwits in the head on Usenet since 19891                http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/o%                Linux makes you stupidl   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 23:59:16 +0200:, From: "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!dC Message-ID: <GqvKNO1eVxKmE98C736Fxytyu6Sf96S1@sun.d2dlogistics.com>h   JF Mezei wrote:  > "deadl!nk" wrote: B >> VMS is an obsolete steaming pile of shit! It only worked on one= >> hardware platform, and had plenty of problems of it's own.  > F > Just for the record, VMS works on VAX, Alpha, and through emulators, > 32bitpG > Intel 8086 systems. It is being ported to the unwanted IA64 thing duee > toE > politics and hopefully will be ported to a real chip once HP admits  > IA64 is a mistake. > E > VMS is state of the art in terms of clustering, disaster tolerance.a > It hasD > both a character cell and X gui interface. It has TCPIP stack, web	 > serversaC > etc. It has solid security. So the word "obsolete" doesn't reallyn > apply to it.D > Both Unix and Windows are struggling to catch up to VMS for systemE > stability, clustering etc. (and in the case of windows, Digital hadT > even donated much of@ > VMS intellectual property to Microsoft but the later failed to > implement it). >TD > The problem with VMS isn't technical, it is its lack of marketing.  B I agree with your poast. You forgot lots of other innovations likeK journaling, versioning et al. You especially forgot its role in the originsr
 of Usenet.  H I'll never forget the day I took my first MicroVax home, around 1989. ItI wasn't much bigger than one quarter the size of a full tower PC today, or0L half the size of the old lugable PCs. Fucking heavy, but small. A cluster ofI those little fuckers would run rings around anything we have on our deskss these days.r  5 NFT>COPY THISPOST.NWS P4SRV"BOOT"::[BOOT.PST]POST.NWS   
 Sob! Sniffle!    --  @ Kadaitcha Man: Kicking fuckwits in the head on Usenet since 19891                http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/s%                Linux makes you stupide   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:00:37 +0200rF From: Peter =?ISO-8859-15?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <Peter.Koehlmann@t-online.de>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!C/ Message-ID: <bli749$7tg$06$1@news.t-online.com>I   Doug wrote:i   > Peter Khlmann wrote:n >> Peter Khlmann wrote: >>) >>> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:r@ >>>>> I knew it was you because I don't make it a habit to reply >>>>> to my own messages.  >>>g >>> Clissy,. >>>  >>> I new it vas him two.c >>>? >>> <who is he?> >>>oD >>> Hef you ficurd out wat ve most do to clash zer OE ploglams yezt? >>>IE >>> You cally on mit dat und, /I/ /VIL/ /ARSK/ /ZE/ /QVESTIONS/ /UND/   >>> /ZEY/ /VIL/ /ANSSER/ /ZEM/!! >>>s >>> Jawohl, mein Schatz? >>> --
 >>> Peter xxx  >>B >> Feeling /real/ clever to impersonate someone else, dimmest wit? >  > A > He's real (look at his mastery of German), you're the imposter.s >   K Klar ist er das. Da er so viel besser Deutsch sprechen kann als ich muss erw der "Echte" sein. Klar doch.D Diese Argumentation hat jedoch einen grossen Haken. Bei deiner nichtH vorhandenen Intelligenz wirst du sicher auch nicht sagen knnen, welchen   IdiotT -- P. A fool-proof method for sculpting an elephant:0 first, get a huge block of marble; then you chip3 away everything that doesn't look like an elephant.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:20:48 +0100r' From: The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>V' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!T( Message-ID: <3F7CA4C0.1020008@bigIQ.com>  
 sqr wrote:C > Hay...this guy is making fun of both groups......Lets get him....  > , > <punch kick stomp: from the windoze group>7 > <slap scratch name calling : from the Linfucks group>c >   H Which one are you.  Think you are the real sqr (but could be wrong), as  you make sense..   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:21:00 GMTw" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! 0 Message-ID: <00A26C9A.6A2BC1DB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  k In article <dac6f860.0310021123.73ff0e29@posting.google.com>, sandra@bluebirds-mad.co.uk (deadl!nk) writes:o {...snip...}' >You have got to be fucking kidding me!   A Grow up.  This stupid thread was started by some troll looking to 0 evoke the virulent rhetoric of the likes of you.    @ >VMS is an obsolete steaming pile of shit! It only worked on oneF >hardware platform, and had plenty of problems of it's own. Windows isE >a steaming pile of shit too, but at least it's not VMS. I think evenhE >the fucking Wintrolls should be fucking flaming you on that one, yous >poor old pathetic VMtroll.n  @ Your allusive "facts" about VMS are wrong.  VMS runs on several > platforms -- not just on VAX as you would have others believe.   -- kL VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            i5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" I   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:29:18 +0000 (UTC)2 From: "Dr Halonfire$ \(L'Girl\)" <URAPnut@msn.com>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! 0 Message-ID: <bli8ru$ib9$1@sparta.btinternet.com>   The Genius wrote:  >> chrisv wrote:) >>> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:s >>> 4 >>>>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius# >>>>> <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> wrote:  >>>>>  >>>>> D >>>>>> I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, >>>>>> laughing  >>>>> 
 >>>>> *plonk*g >>>>   >>>  >>> *PLANK*s >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> 
 >> *PLINK* *PLINK*h *FIZZ* Angkor-Seltzer...........?!  -- a  % To see an evolving website; visit. :-  http://tinyurl.com/fks4t Or if you're into Halloween. :-o4 http://tinyurl.com/okjn  (This 1 is graphics heavy.)# Fuckwits and Linuxfucks go here. :-c. http://www.twogirl69.btinternet.co.uk/Raff.htm   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 15:30:57 -0700e( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310021430.5e1750cb@posting.google.com>n   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<blgpij$86k$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...t > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > >  > > The Genius wrote:e > >  > >>L > >> I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing I > >> at the trolls from both sides, having a go at each others OS, and I  K > >> can't help feeeling that the lot of you are complete loosers.  Let me " > >> break it down as follows:-  > >>
 > > [snip] > > I > >> Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people  " > >> who are stupid to begin with. > >  > > K > > Only an insecure twit would make such a profane posting, anonymously.  uI > > You have no credentials, no credibility, and nothing constructive to  5 > > say, so climb back under your rock and go away...  > >  > > 	 > > Barrye > >  > >  > > @ > Could this be the start of the OpenVMS marketing campaign that9 > everyone has been hoping HP will launch sometime soon ?n >  > Lets hope not. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisono  A no, it is just someone who has a brain and has seen the truth ...e? by reading some off the other posts, I think that validates hise& point about linux/windoze users ... :)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:26:48 -0700' From: "Doug" <DeliverSpam@Landfill.Cum>r' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!m8 Message-ID: <3f7ca5ee$0$98020$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>   Peter Khlmann wrote:d
 > Doug wrote:e >a >> Peter Khlmann wrote: >>> Peter Khlmann wrote:w >>>e* >>>> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:A >>>>>> I knew it was you because I don't make it a habit to reply  >>>>>> to my own messages. >>>> >>>> Clissy, >>>> >>>> I new it vas him two. >>>> >>>> <who is he?>o >>>>E >>>> Hef you ficurd out wat ve most do to clash zer OE ploglams yezt?  >>>>F >>>> You cally on mit dat und, /I/ /VIL/ /ARSK/ /ZE/ /QVESTIONS/ /UND/! >>>> /ZEY/ /VIL/ /ANSSER/ /ZEM/!!  >>>> >>>> Jawohl, mein Schatz?u >>>> --t >>>> Peter xxx >>>hC >>> Feeling /real/ clever to impersonate someone else, dimmest wit?e >> >>B >> He's real (look at his mastery of German), you're the imposter. >> >aE > Klar ist er das. Da er so viel besser Deutsch sprechen kann als ich & > muss er der "Echte" sein. Klar doch.F > Diese Argumentation hat jedoch einen grossen Haken. Bei deiner nichtB > vorhandenen Intelligenz wirst du sicher auch nicht sagen knnen,	 > welcheni    : Yes imposter, that's what I said: look at _his_ mastery...   > --   > Idiota   Interesting.   -- y I'm a Typical Linuxfucks$ Linux Users (lusers) are gay like me "Linux made me stupid"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:53:27 -0600  From: ray <pdqxyz@zianet.com>d' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!e( Message-ID: <3f7caad6$1@news.zianet.com>   The Genius wrote:  > I > I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing dF > at the trolls from both sides, having a go at each others OS, and I H > can't help feeeling that the lot of you are complete loosers.  Let me  > break it down as follows:- >  > Linucks Lusers:p > K > Linfux (or any unix in general) is the biggest piece of shit going. it's cK > had its day in the seventies, and just doesn't know when its time is up. oA >  The man pages were written by geeks for geeks, and is totally  H > unintuitive, and is about as much help as turd that wont flush.  Only E > complete morons, with very long hair and smelly beards (ie richard t! > stallman) uses unix these days.n >  >  > Windozers: > K > What a completly fucked up OS that is.   Based upon a superior OS (VMS),  G > but bastardised into a complete piece of shit, with so many security aA > holes, its a wonder the whole planet is not sueing the butt of lH > Microshite.  Can someone answer a simple question?  Why the fuck does J > windoze servers require a GUI to work.  It doesn't need it!!!  Its just C > a file, print and possiblly a database server.  No GUI required!  K > Everything can be done from the command line.  Does microshite know that u+ > is products will be used to total morons?g >  >  > K > Let me tell you about a totally superior OS, VMS.  VMS is without doubt, kI > the most intuative, helpful OS that has ever existed.  The help system tI > is the best ever, and will tell you exactly what you want to know, and kG > how to execute a command properly.  VMS is by far the most stable OS uG > going, requiring no periodical pathes, only an upgrade (if you want) eJ > every 2 or 3 years.  It doesn't get viruses of any sort whatsoever, and K > does not suffer from denial of service attacks that both Linucks (or any yK > usix) and Winshite does.  In fact it is superior to all OSs in every way.  > I > I will continue to lurk in your groups for a laugh, but remember this:-o > J > Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people who  > are stupid to begin with.p >  >  >  > The Genius.....  >  >   E Linux is definitely a screwed up mess. Unfortunately, it is the best s% screwed up mess we have to work with.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:57:49 +0100r' From: The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>-' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!i( Message-ID: <3F7CAD6D.9050404@bigIQ.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:h > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<blgpij$86k$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >> >>>The Genius wrote: >>>  >>>tK >>>>I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing tH >>>>at the trolls from both sides, having a go at each others OS, and I J >>>>can't help feeeling that the lot of you are complete loosers.  Let me  >>>>break it down as follows:- >>>> >>>c	 >>>[snip]  >>>e >>>uH >>>>Linucks is for lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze if for people ! >>>>who are stupid to begin with.a >>>e >>>eJ >>>Only an insecure twit would make such a profane posting, anonymously.  H >>>You have no credentials, no credibility, and nothing constructive to 4 >>>say, so climb back under your rock and go away... >>>i >>>  >>>Barry >>>  >>>  >>>a >>@ >>Could this be the start of the OpenVMS marketing campaign that9 >>everyone has been hoping HP will launch sometime soon ?e >> >>Lets hope not. >>	 >>Regardst >>Andrew Harrisons >  > C > no, it is just someone who has a brain and has seen the truth ...pA > by reading some off the other posts, I think that validates hisg( > point about linux/windoze users ... :)  I You see the truth in it.  I was going to also involve the Amiga advocacy y@ groups as well, but decided they would probably get too violent.  I I have nothing against both OSs, and use both on a regular basis, but at  F the end of the day, they are just computer operating systems, and not  worth getting so uptite about.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:12:44 GMTl+ From: "127.0.0.1" <unavailable@spam-me.not>t' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!XC Message-ID: <g24fb.13549$f11.4201@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>l  4 "The Genius" <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> wrote in message  news:3F7C9E1E.70004@bigIQ.com... >. >i > chrisv wrote:n) > > chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:t > >cJ > >>>On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> > >>>wrote:l > >>>n > >>>eL > >>>>I,ve been lurking in both your usenet groups for a while now, laughing > >>>n > >>>*plonk* > >> > >- > > *PLANK*- > >  > >h > >' > >C	 > *PLINK*      install netscape...a   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 22:48:59 -0700.+ From: sandra@bluebirds-mad.co.uk (deadl!nk) ' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats!u= Message-ID: <dac6f860.0310022148.4aed92b8@posting.google.com>a  X VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A26C9A.6A2BC1DB@SendSpamHere.ORG>...m > In article <dac6f860.0310021123.73ff0e29@posting.google.com>, sandra@bluebirds-mad.co.uk (deadl!nk) writes:  > {...snip...}) > >You have got to be fucking kidding me!h > C > Grow up.  This stupid thread was started by some troll looking toy2 > evoke the virulent rhetoric of the likes of you.   probibli9 but that doesn't stop him, or you from being cock suckerse   >  > B > >VMS is an obsolete steaming pile of shit! It only worked on oneH > >hardware platform, and had plenty of problems of it's own. Windows isG > >a steaming pile of shit too, but at least it's not VMS. I think even2G > >the fucking Wintrolls should be fucking flaming you on that one, you  > >poor old pathetic VMtroll.t > B > Your allusive "facts" about VMS are wrong.  VMS runs on several @ > platforms -- not just on VAX as you would have others believe.  7 get a life. this is not the place to be advocating vMs.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Oct 2003 12:58:10 -0500h; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e0 Subject: Re: RMS provide API to directory files?3 Message-ID: <ql+2XbtfDUqX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <139d5a58.0310020632.41e554d0@posting.google.com>, cgilley@bravewc.com (Charles Gilley) writes:H > I want to be able to do a dir/total via code.  I know I can use systemF > to execute dir/total.  Is there an API call to do this? How does theF > DCL dir/total command execute so quickly?  lib$find_file is just too > slow.f  D    directory.exe was written long before lib$find_file was supplied.B    RMS contains all the tools you need to do this stuff "by hand".  C    I've been down the same path.  Any data produceable by DIR comes B    from the FAB, RAB, NAM, or an XAB.  To get at it in a hurry youB    must use RMS asynchronously, start multiple RMS calls then haveB    an AST process the data and restart the call for the next file.>    Since VMS ASTs are serialized, you only need to supply one.  E    By simply keeping 3 RMS calls outstanding I was able to solve thisgJ    kind of performance problem for another group years ago.  I was lucky, >    they had already written the code to use RMS synchronously.  I    You will need to use $SEARCH, $OPEN, and $CLOSE.  It's the $OPEN that yE    takes time, so keep multiple asynchronous $OPENs going.  Setup thee=    FABs and whatever other RMS blocks you need ahead of time.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:35:18 GMTm9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> 0 Subject: Re: RMS provide API to directory files?/ Message-ID: <3F7C6F61.454C3DEB@eps.zko.dec.com>t  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------93F4BBE4D01C6B0E26F05B23* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitn       Charles Gilley wrote:y  H > I want to be able to do a dir/total via code.  I know I can use systemF > to execute dir/total.  Is there an API call to do this? How does theF > DCL dir/total command execute so quickly?  lib$find_file is just too > slow.   @ Lib$find_file is not too slow. The subsequent SYS$OPEN might be,@ specially if you just use the returned name, making RMS walk the directories again.  D you can 'cheat' and look in the CONTEXT variable from lib$find_file.G You'll find it pointing to a FAB with attached and filled in NAM block.,I This allows for  an OPEN BY FILE_ID, you may want to hookup up an XABFHC.iI Now I'm pretty sure that this FAB even had ALQ filled in, so you'd be alld done.kJ However, the (BASIC!) test program below shows this is not (no longer) the case.uF Still, it show how you can get to the FAB. From C this is even easier.  7 Directory uses LIB$FILE_SCAN (through succes routines).lH It then uses RMS for network file and direct XQP calls throgh the public APIs.gG Check the OpenVMS I/O Users's Reference manual for deatils (hey, that's. twicee= in one day I refer to this book, and also twice this decade!)-C  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6136/6136pro.html#file_infoaH Unlike RMS, the ACP interface allows one to bypass locking: FIB$V_NOLOCKH Also, it only reads the header, no file data (RMS will read prologue for
 REL and IDX).nJ I'll also include an (untested) QIO example (Thanks Stuart, hope you don't mind!)   Enjoy.   1       OPTION TYPE = EXPLICITA         EXTERNAL LONG FUNCTION  LIB$GET_FOREIGN, LIB$FIND_FILE, &yD                                 LIB$FIND_FILE_END, LIB$TRIM_FILESPEC  3         DECLARE STRING  FILE_SPEC, RESULT_SPEC, TMPh7         DECLARE LONG    CONTEXT, I, J, STAT, FILE_COUNTe6         EXTERNAL LONG   CONSTANT RMS$_NORMAL, RMS$_NMFB         STAT = LIB$GET_FOREIGN (FILE_SPEC, "File specification: ")!         GO TO 2 IF FILE_SPEC = ""I         CONTEXT = 0%         I = 0%>         STAT = LIB$FIND_FILE (FILE_SPEC, RESULT_SPEC, CONTEXT)*         WHILE  (STAT AND 1%) AND (I < 15%)F             CALL Process_one_more_file (CONTEXT BY VALUE, RESULT_SPEC)B             STAT = LIB$FIND_FILE (FILE_SPEC, RESULT_SPEC, CONTEXT)         NEXT         FILE_COUNT = I=         CALL SYS$EXIT(STAT BY VALUE) UNLESS (STAT = RMS$_NMF) (         CALL LIB$FIND_FILE_END (CONTEXT) 2       ENDy  A 3       SUB Process_one_more_file(fake_FAB FAB, STRING file_name)g         RECORD fake_FABe)            long START, FOP, STS, STV, ALQs         END RECORD!         PRINT FAB::ALQ, file_name          END SUBd    P ================================================================================  2 Note 1900.5                    help with file size 5 of 7;                                171 lines   5-SEP-1991 07:59 =                    -< FILE_SIZE.C  uses ACP $QIO interface >-lP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   /*  = I have included a short main to show the use of this routine.l  E It uses the ACP $QIO interface with an attributes block pointing to a0C statistics block to get the number of blocks allocated to a file...1    Stuarti   */       #include fibdef  #include atrdefo #include sbkdeff #include iodef #include rms #include descrip  ? unsigned int file_size(char *filename, unsigned int *filesize);e   main() {e    unsigned int status;l+    char filename[] = "SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM";-    unsigned int filesize;   6    if ( (status = file_size(filename,&filesize)) == 1)D       printf("File %s has %d blocks allocated\n",filename,filesize);    elsen       LIB$SIGNAL(status,0);a }a    > unsigned int file_size(char *filename, unsigned int *filesize) {d    8    struct FAB    fab;           /* File attributes block */-    struct NAM    nam;           /* Name block( */9    struct fibdef fib;           /* File information blockd */     struct FIB_DESCl                 {hE                    int length;          /* Length of file informationm	 block  */ F                    struct fibdef *fib;  /* Address of file information block */                 }                  fib_desc =                 {t                   FIB$C_LENGTH,z                   &fib                 };  7    struct sbkdef sbk;                /* File statisticsa block               */  7    struct atrdef  atr[2] =           /* File attributesD block               */                   {l=                      {ATR$S_STATBLK, ATR$C_STATBLK, &sbk}, /*  Statistics    */D                      {0,0,0}                               /* End of	 atr    */r                   };  =    char full_name[NAM$C_MAXRSS]; /* Full filename returned byn RMS           */8    char nam_esa[NAM$C_MAXRSS];   /* Needed by search and parse              */,7    $DESCRIPTOR(fullname_desc, full_name);  /* Needed byw $ASSIGN             */  '    /* Used by $QIO system service... */h+    unsigned long iosb[2], status, function;     unsigned short channel;      "    /* Initialise the fab block  */    fab = cc$rms_fab;    fab.fab$l_nam = &nam;    fab.fab$l_fop = FAB$M_NAM;o    fab.fab$l_fna = filename;$    fab.fab$b_fns = strlen(filename);  !    /* Initialise the nam block */.    nam = cc$rms_nam;H    nam.nam$l_rsa = &full_name;   /* Full filename wanted at this address */A    nam.nam$b_rss = NAM$C_MAXRSS; /* maximum size of full filenamek */;    nam.nam$l_esa = &nam_esa;     /* Expanded string address2 */I    nam.nam$b_ess = NAM$C_MAXRSS; /* maximum size of expanded filename strR */      J    /* Use RMS to find the file and fill in the NAM and FAB blocks       */  0    if ( ((status=sys$parse(&fab,0,0)) & 1) == 1)%        status = sys$search(&fab,0,0);r  (    if ((status & 1) == 0) return status;    "    /* Initialise the fib block  */    memset(&fib,0,FIB$C_LENGTH);h  =    /* Copy the File ID from the nam block to the fib block */.F     memcpy( &fib.fib$r_fid_overlay.fib$w_fid , &nam.nam$w_fid[0], 6 );  D    /* Set the fib to allow file access even if the file is locked */6    fib.fib$r_acctl_overlay.fib$l_acctl = FIB$M_NOLOCK;  =    /* Fill in the length of the filename in the descriptor */ .    fullname_desc.dsc$w_length = nam.nam$b_rsl;  =    /* Assign a channel to the file so it can be opened     */n       status = SYS$ASSIGN(E                         &fullname_desc, /* Device Name             */m@                         &channel,  /* Returned Channel number */E                         0,              /* Access Mode             */hE                         0               /* Mailbox Name            */s                        );0  (    if ((status & 1) == 0) return status;    J /*************************************************************************  C     * We must now issue an ACCESS QIO to open the file.  We need toi	 specify * @     * a file attributes block and a statistics block in order to obtain     *"     * the allocation count for the* file                                     *  J *************************************************************************/  '    function = IO$_ACCESS | IO$M_ACCESS;     status = SYS$QIOW(nA            0,                     /* Event Flag Number         */nA            channel,               /* I/O channel               */ A            function,              /* I/O function code         */uA            iosb,                  /* I/O status block address  */>A            0,                     /* AST Address               */ A            0,                     /* AST Parameter             */tA            &fib_desc,             /* P1, fib descriptor        */,A            0,                     /* P2, not used              */uA            0,                     /* P3, not used              */ A            0,                     /* P4, not used              */uA            atr,                   /* P5, Attributes block      */ A            0);                    /* P6, not used              */   (    if ((status & 1) == 0) return status;*    if ((iosb[0] & 1) == 0) return iosb[0];    :    /* Get the file allocation from the statistics block */?    *filesize = sbk.sbk$w_filesizl + (sbk.sbk$w_filesizh << 16);u  !    /* Now close the file again */u      function = IO$_DEACCESS;e    status = SYS$QIOW(bA            0,                     /* Event Flag Number         */oA            channel,               /* I/O channel               */ A            function,              /* I/O function code         */nA            iosb,                  /* I/O status block address  */oA            0,                     /* AST Address               */oA            0,                     /* AST Parameter             */iA            &fib_desc,             /* P1, fib descriptor        */ A            0,                     /* P2, not used              */rA            0,                     /* P3, not used              */tA            0,                     /* P4, not used              */ A            0,                     /* P5, Attributes block      */-A            0);                    /* P6, not used              */S  (    if ((status & 1) == 0) return status;*    if ((iosb[0] & 1) == 0) return iosb[0];      return 1; }-        & --------------93F4BBE4D01C6B0E26F05B23+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;n  name="alq.bas"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit, Content-Disposition: inline;  filename="alq.bas"i   1       OPTION TYPE = EXPLICITA         EXTERNAL LONG FUNCTION  LIB$GET_FOREIGN, LIB$FIND_FILE, &oD                                 LIB$FIND_FILE_END, LIB$TRIM_FILESPEC  3         DECLARE STRING  FILE_SPEC, RESULT_SPEC, TMPe7         DECLARE LONG    CONTEXT, I, J, STAT, FILE_COUNT-6         EXTERNAL LONG   CONSTANT RMS$_NORMAL, RMS$_NMFB         STAT = LIB$GET_FOREIGN (FILE_SPEC, "File specification: ")!         GO TO 2 IF FILE_SPEC = ""a         CONTEXT = 0%         I = 0%>         STAT = LIB$FIND_FILE (FILE_SPEC, RESULT_SPEC, CONTEXT)*         WHILE  (STAT AND 1%) AND (I < 15%)F             CALL Process_one_more_file (CONTEXT BY VALUE, RESULT_SPEC)B             STAT = LIB$FIND_FILE (FILE_SPEC, RESULT_SPEC, CONTEXT)         NEXT         FILE_COUNT = I=         CALL SYS$EXIT(STAT BY VALUE) UNLESS (STAT = RMS$_NMF)l(         CALL LIB$FIND_FILE_END (CONTEXT) 2       ENDD  ; 3	SUB Process_one_more_file(fake_FAB FAB, STRING file_name)          RECORD fake_FABl)            long START, FOP, STS, STV, ALQs         END RECORD!         PRINT FAB::ALQ, file_name          END SUB-  & --------------93F4BBE4D01C6B0E26F05B23+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;e  name="file_size.c"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt Content-Disposition: inline;  filename="file_size.c"a  P ================================================================================P Note 1900.5                    help with file size                        5 of 7; 							                        171 lines   5-SEP-1991 07:59w=                    -< FILE_SIZE.C  uses ACP $QIO interface >-uP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /*  = I have included a short main to show the use of this routine.M  E It uses the ACP $QIO interface with an attributes block pointing to arC statistics block to get the number of blocks allocated to a file...    	Stuarts   */       #include fibdefh #include atrdef- #include sbkdef  #include iodef #include rms #include descrip  ? unsigned int file_size(char *filename, unsigned int *filesize);    main() {0    unsigned int status; +    char filename[] = "SYS$LOGIN:LOGIN.COM";:    unsigned int filesize;a  6    if ( (status = file_size(filename,&filesize)) == 1)D       printf("File %s has %d blocks allocated\n",filename,filesize);    elseo       LIB$SIGNAL(status,0);d }e    > unsigned int file_size(char *filename, unsigned int *filesize) {A    M    struct FAB    fab;           /* File attributes block                   */nM    struct NAM    nam;           /* Name block                              */oM    struct fibdef fib;           /* File information block                  */i     struct FIB_DESCe                 {aO                    int length;          /* Length of file information block  */iO                    struct fibdef *fib;  /* Address of file information block */d                 }t                 fib_desc =                 {e                   FIB$C_LENGTH,d                   &fib                 };  N    struct sbkdef sbk;                /* File statistics block               */  N    struct atrdef  atr[2] =           /* File attributes block               */                   {eN                      {ATR$S_STATBLK, ATR$C_STATBLK, &sbk}, /* Statistics    */N                      {0,0,0}                               /* End of atr    */                   };  N    char full_name[NAM$C_MAXRSS]; /* Full filename returned by RMS           */N    char nam_esa[NAM$C_MAXRSS];   /* Needed by search and parse              */N    $DESCRIPTOR(fullname_desc, full_name);  /* Needed by $ASSIGN             */  '    /* Used by $QIO system service... */ +    unsigned long iosb[2], status, function;e    unsigned short channel;      "    /* Initialise the fab block  */    fab = cc$rms_fab;    fab.fab$l_nam = &nam;    fab.fab$l_fop = FAB$M_NAM;     fab.fab$l_fna = filename;$    fab.fab$b_fns = strlen(filename);  !    /* Initialise the nam block */d    nam = cc$rms_nam;L    nam.nam$l_rsa = &full_name;   /* Full filename wanted at this address  */L    nam.nam$b_rss = NAM$C_MAXRSS; /* maximum size of full filename         */L    nam.nam$l_esa = &nam_esa;     /* Expanded string address               */L    nam.nam$b_ess = NAM$C_MAXRSS; /* maximum size of expanded filename str */      J    /* Use RMS to find the file and fill in the NAM and FAB blocks       */0    if ( ((status=sys$parse(&fab,0,0)) & 1) == 1)%        status = sys$search(&fab,0,0);n  (    if ((status & 1) == 0) return status;    "    /* Initialise the fib block  */    memset(&fib,0,FIB$C_LENGTH);r  =    /* Copy the File ID from the nam block to the fib block */tF     memcpy( &fib.fib$r_fid_overlay.fib$w_fid , &nam.nam$w_fid[0], 6 );  D    /* Set the fib to allow file access even if the file is locked */6    fib.fib$r_acctl_overlay.fib$l_acctl = FIB$M_NOLOCK;  =    /* Fill in the length of the filename in the descriptor */b.    fullname_desc.dsc$w_length = nam.nam$b_rsl;  =    /* Assign a channel to the file so it can be opened     */w       status = SYS$ASSIGN(E                         &fullname_desc, /* Device Name             */b@                         &channel,  /* Returned Channel number */E                         0,              /* Access Mode             */tE                         0               /* Mailbox Name            */                         );W  (    if ((status & 1) == 0) return status;  M    /*************************************************************************pM     * We must now issue an ACCESS QIO to open the file.  We need to specify *3M     * a file attributes block and a statistics block in order to obtain     *wM     * the allocation count for the file                                     *vN     *************************************************************************/  '    function = IO$_ACCESS | IO$M_ACCESS;     status = SYS$QIOW(eA            0,                     /* Event Flag Number         */hA            channel,               /* I/O channel               */-A            function,              /* I/O function code         */ A            iosb,                  /* I/O status block address  */wA            0,                     /* AST Address               */ A            0,                     /* AST Parameter             */eA            &fib_desc,             /* P1, fib descriptor        */oA            0,                     /* P2, not used              */rA            0,                     /* P3, not used              */aA            0,                     /* P4, not used              */ A            atr,                   /* P5, Attributes block      */xA            0);                    /* P6, not used              */   (    if ((status & 1) == 0) return status;*    if ((iosb[0] & 1) == 0) return iosb[0];    :    /* Get the file allocation from the statistics block */?    *filesize = sbk.sbk$w_filesizl + (sbk.sbk$w_filesizh << 16);e  !    /* Now close the file again */l      function = IO$_DEACCESS;e    status = SYS$QIOW( A            0,                     /* Event Flag Number         */,A            channel,               /* I/O channel               */ A            function,              /* I/O function code         */ A            iosb,                  /* I/O status block address  */aA            0,                     /* AST Address               */sA            0,                     /* AST Parameter             */cA            &fib_desc,             /* P1, fib descriptor        */.A            0,                     /* P2, not used              */pA            0,                     /* P3, not used              */MA            0,                     /* P4, not used              */oA            0,                     /* P5, Attributes block      */tA            0);                    /* P6, not used              */   (    if ((status & 1) == 0) return status;*    if ((iosb[0] & 1) == 0) return iosb[0];      return 1; }o      ( --------------93F4BBE4D01C6B0E26F05B23--   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:22:20 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> D Subject: Re: rx2600 OpenVMS I64 porting server (was: affordable VMS)K Message-ID: <0j3fb.196477$Lnr1.128420@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u   jlsue wrote:G > On 1 Oct 2003 14:30:08 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)g > wrote: >u@ >> In article <cf15391e.0310011005.2907f0dc@posting.google.com>,6 >> keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:< >>> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message3 >>> news:<$m2MhdUJRCeq@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  >>>> So what machine is that ? >>>- >>> It's described as: >>>e% >>> rx2600 OpenVMS I64 porting serverm >>>eC >>> rx2600 1.3GHz CPU server, 1GB DDR memory quad, 36GB 15K Hotplug:G >>> Ultra320 LP Disk Drive, DVD-ROM Slimline Drive, tower bezel upgradei >>E >> Thanks Keith.  That looks good.  Even if I don't know what a towert >> bezel does :-)< >> >nB > The bezel is a special part that increases throughput by 1000%!! >  >aL ;-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-); -);-);-);-);-);-)>    > Then I guess Intel doesn't need to process-shrink Itanic.  ;-)  L Actually this bezel just the computing equivalent of 'flame' stickers on the sides of automobiles.D   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:09:31 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: SHOW DEVICE/FULL DSAt$ Message-ID: <bli0lr$m8r$1@online.de>  G What determines whether SHOW DEVICE/FULL DSA shows "generic SCSI disk"  * or the actual model of (one of) the disks?  D Usually, I see "generic SCSI disk", but I have two shadow sets (bothD members connected to a node running 7.2-1 ALPHA; two different nodesH show this behaviour)  where the model number of one of disks is shown (IF think it is NOT the one specified as BOOTDEF_DEV in the case where theC model numbers are different.)  From VAX, I always see "generic SCSI F disk", even for one of the both-members-connected-to-ALPHA shadow setsD mentioned above which is also mounted on a VAX in the same cluster.   H I have another shadow set which shows up as "generic SCSI disk" from VAX@ and ALPHA; one member is connected to a VAX and one to an ALPHA    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:07:12 -0500, From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit/ Message-ID: <vnppv12drd8vef@corp.supernews.com>   K Permit me to rephrase.  I certainly don't know, but it appears that the sunj is starting to set.d    H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:uwMo+SijbVVW@eisner.encompasserve.org...oA > In article <vnls4f11mu9ac9@corp.supernews.com>, "Dave Gudewicz"Y <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> writes:K > > I doubt if Andrew is privy to the real answer.  No insult intended.  Me K > > thinks the Sun is setting.  Reminds me of what happend to DEC when theya tookJ > > their collective eye off the ball.  Doesn't happen over night, but the > > symptoms look similar. > 4 >    You guys have been reading Terry Shannon again? >I   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 19:32:45 -0400o+ From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>r% Subject: Re: TCPIP  Reject processing ) Message-ID: <3F7C7D5D.6C3847CE@yahoo.com>    Michael Austin wrote:o > ? > Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2k7 >    on a AlphaServer 2100 4/200 running OpenVMS V7.3-1s >  > ... could use some changes:  >  > In STMP.CONFIG:-= > Reject-Mail-From: *Microsoft*Services*,*Microsoft*Support*, * > *Microsoft*System*,*Microsoft*Security*,. > *Microsoft*Bulletin*,*Microsoft*Assistance*,) > *MS*Security*,*MS*Support*,*MS*System*,e- > *MS*Service*,*MS*Bulletin*,*MS*Assistance*, 1 > *Microsoft*Customer*Assistance*,*Email*Service*> > 5 > This seems to only work if the string is in the < >h< > This latest round of SPAM has the following in the headers > B > FROM: "Microsoft Email Storage Service" <removed@to-protect.com> > G > NOTE this may be a good address but the "name" contains what I really>7 > need to be looking for ...not just within the < >....  >  >  > CORRECT BEHAVIOR > $telnet 0/port=25t( > %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 127.0.0.18 > %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host localhost, port 25J > 220 mysys.mydomain.com V5.3-18E, OpenVMS V7.3-1 Alpha ready at Sun, 21 S > helo= > 250 mysys.mydomain.com Hello LOCALHOST, pleased to meet you0@ > MAIL FROM: "Microsoft Services" <MicrosoftServices@nowhre.com>: > 550 "You have been infected with a virus. Call support." >  > WRONG BEHAVIOR > $telnet 0/port=25 ( > %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 127.0.0.18 > %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host localhost, port 25J > 220 mysys.mydomain.com V5.3-18E, OpenVMS V7.3-1 Alpha ready at Sun, 21 S > helo= > 250 mysys.mydomain.com Hello LOCALHOST, pleased to meet youn? > MAIL FROM: "Microsoft Services" <somepoorschmuck@nowhere.com>h  B I think the return-path address in the MAIL FROM isn't supposed toG contain a quoted string so the string is being ignored.  It isn't beingnG looked at for the Reject-Mail-From comparison.  Only the address withina the < > is tested.    
 > RCPT TO: me 0 > 250 <somepoorschmuck@nowhere.com>... Sender OK > 250 < me>... Recipient OKl > DATA. > 354 Start mail input; end with <CRLF>.<CRLF> > this is a testC > . << this line changed from single .(period) so email would work.a > 250 OK > quit= > 221 mysys.mydomain.com Service closing transmission channelo/ > %TELNET-S-REMCLOSED, Remote connection closedm8 > -TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host localhost, port 252 > New mail from SMTP%"somepoorschmuck@nowhere.com"   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:39:54 +0000 (UTC) From: chelito@eromaker.esf Subject: test news0 Message-ID: <blhnta$4du$1@localhost.localdomain>   darnier test news- perdn por las molestias --   Chelito, Fotos Eroticas% http://www.personal.able.es/ensorianoa   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:04:13 -0400e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL) Message-ID: <3F7C76AB.6E7CDF98@istop.com>>   Didier Morandi wrote:oI >> So, I have a 1024/128 in my office and a 512/128 at home. What you arebH > saying is that I've better download from home to my office that upload > from home, right?   N Nop. In both cases, the bottleneck is the portion that sends from the computerN to the internet because in both cases it is limited to 128.  once it is on theN internet, it travels at very high speed on fibre optic/whatever, and then, for8 the last hop to the destination PC, it travels at 1024.   N Fact remains that the initial step is limted to 128 and it doesn't matter what: the remaining speeds are, that first link is the slow one.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:46:32 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>e2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL' Message-ID: <3F7C8EA8.3080503@MMaz.com>s   JF Mezei wrote:g   >Didier Morandi wrote: >    >oI >>>So, I have a 1024/128 in my office and a 512/128 at home. What you aren	 >>>        >>>yH >>saying is that I've better download from home to my office that upload >>from home, right?- >>     >> >-O >Nop. In both cases, the bottleneck is the portion that sends from the computermO >to the internet because in both cases it is limited to 128.  once it is on the.O >internet, it travels at very high speed on fibre optic/whatever, and then, forr9 >the last hop to the destination PC, it travels at 1024. h >nO >Fact remains that the initial step is limted to 128 and it doesn't matter whato; >the remaining speeds are, that first link is the slow one.  >u >  u >sG Perhaps one side is not negotiating MTU properly...  Do you experience iB packet loss or major latency in the slower direction that isn't a   proplem in the faster direction?   Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:35:30 -0400u' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>iA Subject: Re: USA - Alpha/VAX Hardware Field Engineers needed ASAP,0 Message-ID: <i8gilb.2ct.ln@dadsys2.fuller.local>   Jack Peacock wrote:   E > "Tracey Virtue" <recruits@solutions-worldwide.com> wrote in messagev9 > news:1f95c8ba.0309250711.48c8f7fc@posting.google.com... C >> Can anyone recommend people for multiple Hardware Field Engineer G >> positions I'm trying to fill? Top priority are positions in Chicago,h? >> IL (second Omaha, NE) - then other locations across the USA.  >>L > Isn't HP in the middle of another round of large scale layoffs for supportJ > people as more work is shifted to Indian companies?  Sounds like someoneH > is doing a CYA by setting up their own support staff in case the phoneK > center in India can't keep their multi-mega-dollar clusters running 24/7.,  H Maybe it's a 3rd party service outfit?  Maybe it's the local HP service F organization?  Support may be outsourced to India, but you still need  people in the field. -- s  -         Stu, one of those people in the fieldx   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:47:13 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Driveru0 Message-ID: <3F7C7187.DB909353@blueyonder.co.uk>   Kevin Handy wrote: >  > Murray Styman wrote:P > > Our developers are constantly using the tape units as part of the applicaionK > > they are developing and keep dismounting the tapes which means that our-M > > operators have to reload.  Part of there job, but a pain in the arse when M > > you have to do it every 5 minutes.  They also seem to get there processesgN > > into varying states which lock up the tape unit and often the only way out > > is a reboot!.d > >oD > > I work in a very security contious environment and giving access9 > > un-necessaryily to the tape units is not a good idea.  > >eN > > I thought that a virtual tape unit would be a good solution.  No where forO > > the test data to go, reduced access to the real tape units, faster responseo3 > > and if they lock it up jut create a new device.t > >o > > 9 > > "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in message . > > news:00A264AA.BE2B36BF.10@tachysoft.com... > >r > D > Why not set up a simh/Charon/TS10/??? VAX to do development on (as< > long as you can program for VAX and do not require Alpha).4 > Gives you virtual tapes, as well as virtual CPU's. >   = Presumably commercial use will require purchase of additionaly; licenses for OpenVMS VAX and any layered products required.>  B > They will essentialy have their own virtual machines, which they? > can crash and reboot at will, without disturbing anyone else.c  F Developers SHOULD have there own machine(s), separate from production.    --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 19:42:59 -0400t. From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Drivere+ Message-ID: <blidgj$71t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>v   Kevin Handy wrote: > Murray Styman wrote: > E >> Our developers are constantly using the tape units as part of the S
 >> applicaion J >> they are developing and keep dismounting the tapes which means that ourL >> operators have to reload.  Part of there job, but a pain in the arse whenL >> you have to do it every 5 minutes.  They also seem to get there processesJ >> into varying states which lock up the tape unit and often the only way  >> out >> is a reboot!. >>C >> I work in a very security contious environment and giving accesst8 >> un-necessaryily to the tape units is not a good idea. >>J >> I thought that a virtual tape unit would be a good solution.  No where  >> forF >> the test data to go, reduced access to the real tape units, faster  >> response 2 >> and if they lock it up jut create a new device. >> >>8 >> "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in message- >> news:00A264AA.BE2B36BF.10@tachysoft.com...n >> > D > Why not set up a simh/Charon/TS10/??? VAX to do development on (as< > long as you can program for VAX and do not require Alpha).4 > Gives you virtual tapes, as well as virtual CPU's. > B > They will essentialy have their own virtual machines, which they? > can crash and reboot at will, without disturbing anyone else.. >  >  > B Alternatively if people are driving your operators nuts with mountD requests, grab a copy of Branches off the S2003 sigtape stuff or theB Acorn site and get a tape jukebox. Branches supports lots of types
 of jukebox...lH It implements an operator in a box and gives you a way to automate a lot6 of the fiddling. To the rest of VMS it is transparent.   Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 21:20:20 +0200w& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de>. Subject: Re: VMS graphics monitors for dummies$ Message-ID: <3F7C7A74.794B@c-lab.de>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:c >   G > There seem to be 3 types of connections on the machines: 3 rather biga > holes with pins inside them, n  H 3W3, just for RGB. There used to be cables with BNC at the other end, soG it is probably easiest to use BNC couplers (or even Cheapernet/ 10Base2 ; T-plugs for testing) with a common VGA HD15 to 5xBNC cable.1# something that looks like a monitor.H > connector on a PC (maybe it is the same thing), and a 15-pin connectorG > (which looks like the one used for a keyboard/mouse combination thingcF > where each plugs into a block on a cord and the cord plugs in to the# > 15-pin connector on the machine).t  > DB15, like the one at the rear of a VAXStation 3100 or the AUIE connectors? There is page seomwhere that has the pinning, but I think  it's just RGB.    "   On the monitor side, I have someI > cables with 3 BNC connectors (or one if it's mono) and possibly another_G > type with the PC-like connector for the machine on the other end (notf, > sure; I don't have it in front of me now). > J > Can I assume that any combination will work if I have the correct cable?I > (Provided that such a cable exists, i.e. not one specially made just soR > it will fit!)e > G > Will a "standard PC monitor" work with any VAX or ALPHA I might have?e  H Define 'standard'... I'd say that most 'premium' monitors since 96 or so? should be able to cope with the usual H/V deflection rates, andp> hopefully able to use the sync-on-green that the older 3W3 and9 DB15-equipped framebuffer/graphics adapters only provide.l   > D > Can I damage anything by trying out combinations which won't work?  F I tended to say No, but recently it seems that messing around with oldG Mac ECL B/W graphic cards seem to have damaged the H and V input of the-C second HD15 connector of my office monitor... But that was possiblyr@ through the ECL signals, and I haven't checked in detail so far.   > D > Are there any other differences besides the obvious physical ones?  D Signal level and polarity seems to be same in all cases (or might beE compensated by the monitor), there is *only* the question of separatecD vs. composite sync vs. sync-on-green. To have support for the latterE might be difficult with a commodity PC monitor, even more with a LCD.m   -- e* Michael Joosten, SBS C-LAB, joost@c-lab.de* Fuerstenallee 11, 33094 Paderborn, Germany, Phone: +49 5251 606127, Fax: +49 5251 6060658 C-LAB is a cooperation of University Paderborn & SIEMENS   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 02:28:34 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: VMS system on the webH Message-ID: <m95fb.75634$3r1.54229@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   jlsue wrote:H > On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:14:44 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >  >> jlsue wrote:oG >>> On 28 Sep 2003 17:58:38 GMT, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 
 >>> wrote: >, >>>(F >>> CS courses in universities should be focused on learning from whatF >>> is available, as well as searching for improvements and innovationD >>> where possible.  I see no valid argument for not considering anyD >>> unique architecture or platform, and particularly not one that'sG >>> played such an important part in computing history in this country.  >> >>E >> Those profsjust have to be aware that it existed once upon a time,/$ >> and that it currently does exist. >>F >> Many of the current CS faculty at many schools are under the age ofD >> 35. They would have grown-up using unix and MS products, not VMS.@ >> They may not know of VMS at all in either historic or current >> contexts. >>D >> Funny thing...that's where marketing and advertising kicks in. It> >> creates awareness, which begets curiosity, which begets newH >> sales....something HP blissfully seems to ignore with respect to VMS. >> >IE > Back when I was at an institution of higher learning, marketing had G > little to do with what we studied.  We were CS students and the profs G > often used known technologies as a basis for study.  They didn't have,9 > to be actual products, merely a technological solution.I     Ahhh....'known'. I see.   J In a recent poll conducted by Fiorina, Marcello, We Don't Care & Co, 9 outI of 10 academics surveyed prefer prefer unix/linux/Windows and didn't knowi diddley about VMS.*   I *Results accurate 19 times out of 20, with a margin of error of +/- 4.5%.X9 YMMV. Not available is stores. Operators are standing by.E   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:08:52 -0700D0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>7 Subject: Re: VMS731_DISMOU-V0100 - What are the issues?O' Message-ID: <3f7c3f85$1@cpns1.saic.com>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:D >  > H > If one patches to get the retro behavior, what would happen at V7.3-2? > F > But more to the point, why would one want one or the other behavior? >  > -Norm  > ------------= > TITLE: OpenVMS VMS731_DISMOU-V0100 Alpha V7.3-1 ECO SummaryP > + >      System/Cluster Reboot Necessary:  Nou > ' >      Installation Rating: INSTALL_3 :-? >        To be installed by customers experiencing the problems 3 >                                        corrected.  >   > PROBLEMS ADDRESSED IN THIS KIT > 7 > New problems addressed in the VMS731_DISMOU-V0100 kits > ! >      o  VMS731_DISMOU-V0100.RNOc > I >                A change made for OpenVMS V7.3-1 to delete write bitmaps G >                when a virtual unit is dismounted.  The purpose of thenJ >                change was to return memory to the system.  However, someI >                customers depend on the master bitmap remaining, even ifs/ >                the virtual unit is dimounted.z > I >                Since customers who wish to have the bitmaps deleted canfH >                manually delete them, this change removes the code thatD >                deletes the bitmap and reverts functionality to theE >                pre-V7.3-1 state.  Customers that want to delete any F >                unwanted bitmaps can do so via SHOW BITMAP and DELETEC >                BITMAP commands.  These commands have been part ofh& >                OpenVMS since V7.2-2. > 6 >                Images Affected:[SYSLIB]DISMNTSHR.EXE >   G If the bitmap survives the removal of the virtual unit then it becomes  D possible to dismount shadow sets on one member of a cluster that is B contributing members to the shadow sets, reboot that member, then F remount the shadow sets on that member using a minicopy rather than a H full copy.  If the bitmap is deleted as soon as the virtual unit (DSAn) H is dismounted, then that cluster member must do full shadow copies when ( it reboots and remounts the shadow sets.  . I was one of the customers who asked for this.  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:19:39 -0700;+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS::Filespec vs. hardcoding in VMS.C in Perl 5.8.1' Message-ID: <3F7C885B.5030201@MMaz.com>m   Craig Berry wrote:   >Thanks for your efforts to get CPAN working.  You'll want to have a look at Chuck Lane's VMS::FileUtils module that creates ODS-2 safe names, among other things: >nM >http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/C/CL/CLANE/VMS-FileUtils_0.014.tar.gzf >  b >f. Thanks, I'll take a look at it this afternoon.   >IIRC, part of the problem with CPAN may be that external utilities also need additional tweaking.  For example, you may need a version of gunzip that does command-line redirection without help from the pipe command.   >    >lI I could be mistaken, but what I'm observing appears to be a problem with 2H CPAN just obtaining the index files and having it bomb when it attempts B to transfer them to a VMS system which croaks when the unexpected B periods arrive (ie. .tar.gz).  I'm not sure, I believe it is just F attempting to get the files, prior to any external unzipping efforts,  correct?   Barry;   --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:48:49 -0700l+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS::Filespec vs. hardcoding in VMS.C in Perl 5.8.1' Message-ID: <3F7C8F31.4070405@MMaz.com>   * Sorry folks, I posted to the wrong 'list'.   Barry    Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:   > Craig Berry wrote: > G >> Thanks for your efforts to get CPAN working.  You'll want to have a  F >> look at Chuck Lane's VMS::FileUtils module that creates ODS-2 safe  >> names, among other things:  >>P >> http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/C/CL/CLANE/VMS-FileUtils_0.014.tar.gz  >> >>   >>0 > Thanks, I'll take a look at it this afternoon. >;F >> IIRC, part of the problem with CPAN may be that external utilities G >> also need additional tweaking.  For example, you may need a version eF >> of gunzip that does command-line redirection without help from the  >> pipe command.     >>F > I could be mistaken, but what I'm observing appears to be a problem F > with CPAN just obtaining the index files and having it bomb when it B > attempts to transfer them to a VMS system which croaks when the G > unexpected periods arrive (ie. .tar.gz).  I'm not sure, I believe it  G > is just attempting to get the files, prior to any external unzipping * > efforts, correct?o >  > Barry  >*   -- n  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 02:22:37 GMT,# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>*Y Subject: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Mark, Ca G Message-ID: <N35fb.75599$3r1.6739@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20031$ 003/tc_nm/tech_microsoft_security_dc  / Microsoft Faces Class Action Over Virus Crashesu  $ By Kevin Krolicki and Reed Stevenson  @ LOS ANGELES/SEATTLE (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp. faces a proposed> class-action lawsuit in California based on the claim that itsG market-dominant software is vulnerable to viruses capable of triggeringE: "massive, cascading failures" in global computer networks.  H The lawsuit, filed on Tuesday in Los Angeles Superior Court, also claimsJ that Microsoft's security warnings are too complex to be understood by theK general public and serve instead to tip off "fast-moving" hackers on how toc& exploit flaws in its operating system.  I The lawsuit claims unfair competition and the violation of two California G consumer rights laws, one of which took effect earlier this year and is,C intended to protect the privacy of personal information in computern
 databases.  I Microsoft, which received and reviewed the complaint, said it would fight*5 the attempt to certify the lawsuit as a class action.   H "This complaint misses the point. The problems caused by viruses are theD result of criminal acts by people who write viruses," said MicrosoftK spokeswoman Stacy Drake, adding that Microsoft was working with authoritiesr+ to bring malicious code writers to justice.-  L Nevertheless, the lawsuit would reignite a simmering debate over whether theK computer software industry should be held to the same standard of liabilityiL as other companies, such as automakers. The result could be to make computerK software more secure -- and more expensive, computer security experts said.      BEARS RESPONSIBILITYK "It's obvious Microsoft does not bear 100 percent of the responsibility for L these problems, but it's just as obvious that they don't bear zero percent,"E said Bruce Schneier, chief technology officer at Counterpane InternetS	 Security.s  K The lawsuit is the first proposed class-action against Microsoft for lapses L in security and to test its practices against a new state law requiring thatL users be notified whenever their private information has been compromised by4 computer attacks, the lawyer for the plaintiff said.  I Attorney Dana Taschner of Newport Beach, California, filed the lawsuit onCL behalf of Marcy Levitas Hamilton, a film editor and "garden variety" PC userC who had her social security number and bank details stolen over then	 Internet.(  J "Something fundamental has to change to protect consumers and businesses," Taschner said.  E The lawsuit, which could include millions of plaintiffs if allowed to H proceed as a class action, seeks unspecified damages and legal costs, asF well as an injunction against Microsoft barring it from alleged unfair business practices.s  F Many of the arguments in the lawsuit and some of its language echoed aJ report issued by computer security experts in late September, which warnedK that the ubiquitous reach of Microsoft's software on desktops worldwide had 0 made computer networks a national security risk.  C That report distributed by the Computer and Communications Industry-D Association, a trade group representing Microsoft's rivals, said theE complexity of Microsoft's software made it particularly vulnerable tou
 cyber-attack.O     'GLOBAL SECURITY RISK'I "Microsoft's eclipsing dominance in desktop software has created a globaltG security risk," the lawsuit said. "As a result of Microsoft's concertedeE effort to strengthen and expand its monopolies by tightly integrating L applications with its operating system ... the world's computer networks are/ now susceptible to massive, cascading failure.""  J With some $49 billion in cash and more than 90 percent of the market in PCI operating systems, Microsoft has long been seen as a potential target fore massive liability lawsuits.e  J But the company, which has been moving to settle anti-trust claims that itL abused its monopoly on PC software, has been seen as shielded from liabilityH claims by disclaimers contained in the licenses that users must agree to/ when installing software, according to experts.s  E Taschner said Microsoft's "terms of use" constituted a "fundamentallyiL unfair" condition barred by California law given the market dominance of the world's largest software maker.o  L Making that argument stick in court will not be a "slam dunk" but could haveE far-reaching implications, said Mark Rasch, a former head of the U.S. A Department of Justice computer crime unit, now with security firmb Solutionary.  H "This represents the first salvo for consumers to say to software makersJ 'Wait a second, if you are going to put out software that needs be patched= three times a week, take responsibility for it,"' Rasch said.{  K The lawsuit comes in the wake of two major viruses that have recently taken{) advantage of flaws in Microsoft software.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.547 ************************turned by RMS           */N    char nam_esa[NAM$C_MAXRSS];   /* Needed by search and parse              */N    $DESCRIPTOR(fullname_desc, full_name)zgJ'ډ ܗa~@SV=[&4i!$@t'Z
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