1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 03 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 548       Contents:  Alphaserver DS10 for DS10L trade Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Cable for RAID Array 310 ? Re: Cable for RAID Array 310 ?; DIFVOLMNT (%X0072832C), then bugcheck whenbooting any node.  Re: DS15 systems have arrived  Re: DS15 systems have arrived  Re: DS15 systems have arrived  ES40 Systems Extremely Cheap2 Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create?@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)3 Fixed device names for incoming Telnet connections? ; Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged? I Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army I Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army I Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army P Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army ArmyAr$ Re: Missing delta time functionality  Missing delta time functionality$ Re: Missing delta time functionality$ Re: Missing delta time functionality$ Re: Missing delta time functionalityD Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same program Pricing info on DS15 SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: Sun takes a hit ? Re: Thanks for the informative responses Re: Security Breakdown ? Re: Thanks for the informative responses Re: Security Breakdown ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL  WTH is documentation for SLS  Re: WTH is documentation for SLSP Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, MarkP Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, MarkP Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, MarkP Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Mark Re: [5] Counter Googling :-(  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:08:01 -0400& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>) Subject: Alphaserver DS10 for DS10L trade / Message-ID: <vnqpp6gafru1b2@news.supernews.com>   : We still need a large quantity of Alphaserver DS10 Systems   We offer the following trade:   2 We provide 2 x DS10L 617Mhz EV67 no memory systems, You provide 1 x DS10 466mhz or 617Mhz system  K We will consider non-working systems also, but the trade will be based on a  One for One offer.   Regards    --   David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:09:05 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures0 Message-ID: <bljec2$7v0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote: \ > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3F7C1EBE.10004@tsoft-inc.com>... > + >>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11781  >>0 >>Why Intel's Prescott will use AMD64 extensions >  > ...  > S >>So, why is this again? Simple, MS. Microsoft will not support a different 64 bit  Q >>platform, and frankly I don't blame it, it costs a lot of money to do that. MS  R >>gave Intel the choice, support AMD's instruction set, or do without Windows. MS ! >>won that battle pretty handily.  >  > G > Why this doesn't make sense to me is that Microsoft has already had a H > 64-bit version of Windows for Itanium available for quite a while, andH > only recently added a 64-bit version for AMD.  So the work for ItaniumG > appears to have been done first, and the additional work for AMD done C > more recently.  It sounds like the writer here missed the earlier & > Itanium release of Windows entirely. >   E But MS probably only wants one, having to maintain two 64bit versions 7 of Windows will cost MS more than only maintaining one.   C No one including Intel thinks that there is a mass market for 64bit A desktop Itanium systems but MS make a big chunk of their revenues A from Desktop OS's and an even bigger chunk from Office which runs  on them.  E Athlon-64 is a mass market 64 bit desktop processor and there is also C no doubt that it will be the market leader for 64bit Windows/Office > etc. It doesn't unless Prescott turns out to be 64bit have any competition from Intel.   @ So what would you do if you were MS, go with the 64bit arch that? gives you 64bit destktop bragging rights and unit volumes (AMD) < and keep Itanium as well just for old times sake with Intel. Or just support x86-64.   A MS only needs one 64bit desktop architecture it doesn't need two.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 05:39:59 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures) Message-ID: <3F7D43DF.2FC211F7@istop.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:C > MS only needs one 64bit desktop architecture it doesn't need two.   K If Intel is forced to continue development of IA64 even if it releases a 64 N bit 8086 to compete against AMD, it is likely that Intel will fund Microsoft's% continued support of Windows on IA64.   N On the other hand, once Carly is booted out of office, perhaps her replacementC will acknowledge that IA64 is to be relegated only to large servers H (essentially the same fate as Alpha) and that they will focus Windows onJ commodity 64 bit chips (aka 8086). As soon as this is said, Microsoft will: stop developping for iA64 and focus on 32 and 64 bit 8086.  2 The big motivation for intel to go 64 bit is this:  M Once Intel starts to produce 64 bit 8086s, Microsoft and others will start to M produce software that runs only on 64 bit machines. TYhis, like the Windows95 H upgrades as well as Y2K will generate a big boom in computer sales sinceJ people will need to upgrade hardware in order to get the latest version ofA Word. This will be good for Microsoft and good for AMD and Intel.   L As long as Intel continues to produce 32 bit 8086s whose performance is moreN than needed for average users, then the need to upgrade machines/hardware willI be very low. The minute Intel stops making 32 bit 8086s, everyone will be 5 forced to upgrade in order to keep up with the jones'   K The logical thing for Intel to do is to plan its 64 bit 8086 so it can have N the features such as lockstep etc required by large/serious systems. Once thatG is available on the 8086, then Intel can put Ia64 out of its misery and G everyone concentrate on the 8086 which will be what Carly and Curly had  wanted: a commodity chip.     M to Hoff and the other engineers: When Curly announced the murder of Alpha, we K were told here that the VMS engineers were as surprised as we were and that J they had had no advance warnings. Well, this time around, I think that theK writing is on the wall. As time progresses, it is less and less likely that > IA64 will survive in the face of a 64 bit commodity 8086 chip.  L If IA64 supports EFI, what does AMD's 64 bit 8086 use as console software ? P Would/will intel copy AMD's console or would Intel use EFI for its 64 bit 8086 ?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 07:08:24 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures3 Message-ID: <RHF4RrU$RD0l@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3F7C714D.5B9058E8@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > I > And considering that HP/Compaq have selected Intel, the inventor of the M > Pentium random floating point arithmetic, they really shouldn't be pointing ' > fingers at others for hardware flaws.   F    Over the years HP has had it's share of hardware problems.  I know,!    because I bought some of them.   H    The part of HP that was sincerely respected by hardware folks and ledE    them to believe HP would make reliable computers is the part Carly     got rid of.  B    In my experience HP's computer hardware has been no better than<    DEC's, and Sun's a little worse.  Your mileage WILL vary.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 07:14:44 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures3 Message-ID: <eQKT3v6PH2PF@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <bljec2$7v0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > G > But MS probably only wants one, having to maintain two 64bit versions 9 > of Windows will cost MS more than only maintaining one.   D    Considering how well MS supported Alpha, MIPS, Power, and all theH    non-86 other systems when WNT first shipped, our confidence that they@    will continue two more 64 bit Windows should not be too high.  G    MS will go one way or the other, and Intel has the inside track with H    the CIOs of the world.  When they had a choice, they bought Pentiums G    to run WNT on and it's mostly a question of Intel's inside track vs. G    AMD's price.  They won't buy both and when the dust settles MS won't     be supporting both.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 09:19:52 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0310030819.5a1e508d@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bljec2$7v0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... G > But MS probably only wants one, having to maintain two 64bit versions 9 > of Windows will cost MS more than only maintaining one.   B With that logic, Microsoft shouldn't do Office for Mac, because it. costs them something to recompile for PowerPC.  F Microsoft will provide software for each of the markets which it wants	 to serve.   E > No one including Intel thinks that there is a mass market for 64bit C > desktop Itanium systems but MS make a big chunk of their revenues C > from Desktop OS's and an even bigger chunk from Office which runs 
 > on them.  D But they get higher profits on Datacenter servers and the SQL Server( and Exchange software which run on them.  B > So what would you do if you were MS, go with the 64bit arch thatA > gives you 64bit destktop bragging rights and unit volumes (AMD) > > and keep Itanium as well just for old times sake with Intel. > Or just support x86-64.   E But Microsoft is attempting to move beyond just the razor-thin-margin A desktop market and get into the higher-margin datacenter market.  E x86-64 isn't aimed at the datacenter.  And despite all the talk about D Sun dumping SPARC for x86-64, it can't (except maybe in workstationsC and low-end boxes), because Opteron supports 8-way SMP at best, and ? Sun would find it difficult to make 64-way SMP servers with it.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 09:34:20 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0310030834.23df2e5@posting.google.com>  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F7D43DF.2FC211F7@istop.com>... = > once Carly is booted out of office, perhaps her replacement   D Carly's not likely to leave anytime soon.  From what I can tell, sheA seems to be doing a pretty good job as HP's top executive, and is F certainly a very articulate speaker and an effective advocate of HP toD the world.  She also tends to get a lot of positive attention in the press.  From HP World News:   8 "Fiorina ranked most powerful woman in business -- again  B For the sixth straight year, Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina hasD been ranked the most powerful woman in business by Fortune magazine.B The magazine released its ranking of the 50 most powerful women on Monday."9 http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/29/technology/fortune_women/    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 09:45:27 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0310030845.70781477@posting.google.com>   i bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<blhr8a$c5rba$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>... I > I believe he is refering to "Technical features needed to support VMS". G > The argument has always been (at least from my limited understanding) D > that the x86 acrhitecture lacked modes/features needed to make VMS > work as it is intended.   D VMS running on Charon-VAX on x86 would seem to be an existence proof! that this argument must be false.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 12:08:58 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures3 Message-ID: <xfkWEOE6WRdT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0310030819.5a1e508d@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  > D > With that logic, Microsoft shouldn't do Office for Mac, because it0 > costs them something to recompile for PowerPC.  C    They did just drop Explorer for Mac.  hard to justify it being a A    built-in, unremoveable component of Windows if it runs on Mac.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 12:15:47 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures3 Message-ID: <s6MTfxqoB1zK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0310030845.70781477@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:   F > VMS running on Charon-VAX on x86 would seem to be an existence proof# > that this argument must be false.   D    It's almost an existence proof of Turing's machine.  Alan Turing F    said nothing about performance.  You can emulate powerfull featuresD    of a system that your hardware doesn't have if you are willing to    wait for an emulator.  D    The only reason that Charon is pratical is because it's emulatingH    such slow processors and processor speed has increased so much in the    meantime.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:16:32 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> # Subject: Cable for RAID Array 310 ? ' Message-ID: <3F7D3E70.17B4DC54@aaa.com>    Hi. 1 I'v had great problem to connect a RAID Array 310 ! (SWXRA) disk subsystem to a DS10.   / According to all knowledge, the cable should be * the "BN21K-xx" type, but I can not get any5 connection with that one (tried two BN21K-03 cables).   4 The cable that *does* work, is called "17-03916-03",6 but we have problems finding that one in longer (> 1m)3 lenghts. We aren't even sure that the "17-cable" is 5 a true diff SCSI cable. I'v tried two of these cables  and both worked, b.t.w.   9 Now, I'd like to hear from anyone using a RAID Array 310,  and what cable you use.   	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:26:50 -0400& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>' Subject: Re: Cable for RAID Array 310 ? / Message-ID: <vnqud0ofp8itaa@news.supernews.com>    Jan Erik   We have some cables in stock  B What we often do is a VHDCI-VHDCI 3-5m cable with a 68pin to VHDCI+ interconnect cable (as used with the HSZ70)     Price is $80 complete + Shipping   David     3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3F7D3E70.17B4DC54@aaa.com...  > Hi. 3 > I'v had great problem to connect a RAID Array 310 # > (SWXRA) disk subsystem to a DS10.  > 1 > According to all knowledge, the cable should be , > the "BN21K-xx" type, but I can not get any7 > connection with that one (tried two BN21K-03 cables).  > 6 > The cable that *does* work, is called "17-03916-03",8 > but we have problems finding that one in longer (> 1m)5 > lenghts. We aren't even sure that the "17-cable" is 7 > a true diff SCSI cable. I'v tried two of these cables  > and both worked, b.t.w.  > ; > Now, I'd like to hear from anyone using a RAID Array 310,  > and what cable you use.  >  > Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 04:47:26 -0700 $ From: gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen)D Subject: DIFVOLMNT (%X0072832C), then bugcheck whenbooting any node.= Message-ID: <bdc65a53.0310030347.33bd7031@posting.google.com>   F We've gotten into this situation with our cluster twice recently. (I'mB not referring to a VOLALRMNT error, which is a different numerical status.)   Configuration is:   B A single OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 system disk which is very current on patches.= System disk lives on an HSG80, reached via a SAN core switch. D Satellites do not have any shared-storage connections (i.e. no DSSI,! no FibreChannel, no shared SCSI). - 13 boot servers and 7 satellites, all Alphas. ; Running Storageworks RAID software (not sure how relevant).   E In both cases, we had recently run CLUSTER_CONFIG to add a new server = node. However, in each case, the new node had no physical LAN D connection (fiber not hooked up) and took a CLUEXIT bugcheck after a few minutes.  F Each time, shortly after the CLUEXIT, we got the node's LAN connectionF working and re-ran CLUSTER_CONFIG. Just after the new node reached the= point where it reports there's no pagefile on the system disk # (%SYSINIT-I-PAGEFILE), it reported:   : %SYSINIT-E-Error mounting system device, status = 0072832C   We checked these things:  @ * No other clusters with same cluster ID (we only have one other cluster)' * All systems have VAXCLUSTER set to 2. D * The volume label on the system disk has not been changed since the cluster was last booted.  F The only solution we've found is to reboot the cluster (not a pleasant option, of course).   F But we're just as concerned to find out what's causing this. I suspectC that the CLUEXIT during CLUSTER_CONFIG somehow is involved but have 9 only a little circumstantial evidence, as described here.   F HP software support and the maintainer of the MOUNT code have given usD a little script to periodically check the volume's SCB and report ifB its checksum changes. Beyond that, they're out of ideas right now.  E (FYI, the bad connections occur because our fiber cable plant is very F badly documented, has a lot of old labels, and some of the fibers have@ been damaged at one time or another. But this is another issue.)  # Thanks for any help or suggestions,    Galen    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 09:47:32 +0100 K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) & Subject: Re: DS15 systems have arrived! Message-ID: <aunP5SxCBICs@sinead>   M In article <rdeininger-0210031915220001@user-uinj0me.dialup.mindspring.com>,  7 rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:    4 > The DS15 has appeared on the alphaserver web page: > 7 > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ds15/index.html   K Thanks for the good news.  However, I cannot see a reference to a supported M sound card . I suppose the old Ensoniq card cannot be used on the 64 bits PCI  slots ?    Patrick            --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:08:09 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) & Subject: Re: DS15 systems have arrivedL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0310030617250001@user-105n85r.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <aunP5SxCBICs@sinead>, pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU,' CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) wrote:   N >In article <rdeininger-0210031915220001@user-uinj0me.dialup.mindspring.com>, 8 >rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > 5 >> The DS15 has appeared on the alphaserver web page:  >>  8 >> http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ds15/index.html > L >Thanks for the good news.  However, I cannot see a reference to a supportedN >sound card . I suppose the old Ensoniq card cannot be used on the 64 bits PCI	 >slots ?    I Isn't that a 5 Volt card?  The DS15 only has 3.3V PCI slots, so a 5V card  won't work.   C I think there's support for a new, 3.3V sound card in the pipeline.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 06:12:53 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)& Subject: Re: DS15 systems have arrived= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310030512.27fb9f05@posting.google.com>    rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message news:<rdeininger-0210031915220001@user-uinj0me.dialup.mindspring.com>... 4 > The DS15 has appeared on the alphaserver web page:   is there going to be a DS15L?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:04:36 -0400& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>% Subject: ES40 Systems Extremely Cheap / Message-ID: <vnqpipkl5sgi2f@news.supernews.com>    How about this     ES40 Model 2 667Mhz - 667Mhz CPU with VMS SMP License (New license) , OpenVMS Base and EIP Licenses (New licenses), 2GB Island Memory (2 x 1GB for interleaving) Dual Power Supplies  6 Slot Disk Cage 6 x 36GB 10KRPM U160 Disks$ U160 Raid Controller (VMS 7.3-1 req) ATI Radeon 7500 PCI Graphics# Quad Ethernet Controller 64 Bit PCI  New Pedestal Kit   Total US$ 18,995  B Warranty: 1 Year from Island - advanced parts replacement warranty   ES40 Model 2 667Mhz - 667Mhz CPU with VMS SMP License (New license) , OpenVMS Base and EIP Licenses (New licenses), 2GB Compaq Memory (2 x 1GB for interleaving) Dual Power Supplies  6 Slot Disk Cage 6 x 36GB 10KRPM U160 Disks$ U160 Raid Controller (VMS 7.3-1 req) ATI Radeon 7500 PCI Graphics# Quad Ethernet Controller 64 Bit PCI  New Pedestal Kit   Total US$ 19,995  = Warranty: 1 Year - guaranteed eligible for Compaq maintenance 6 (Compaq memory required for Compaq/HP On-site service)     Want the 833Mhz version ?  Add $4000 per CPU...    * These are completely refurbished by Island6 They include a brand NEW pedestal kit and new licenses  G This is one of the fastest last generation boxes for Enterprise demands % Quantity is limited so order asap !!!      Call or email us   Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 08:57:51 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ; Subject: Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? 3 Message-ID: <btNGERBaoKES@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <fhionvsomc3532kf842blov8j0k1dhk4cn@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: L > On 1 Oct 2003 02:19:53 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote: >  >  >>8 >>	So I disagree with the single pool / high performance@ >>	best practice below if for no other reason than that LUN that? >>	is hammering the EVA hard enough to warrant a single pool of ; >>	168 disks is most likely mythical (maybe single pool for @ >>	high performance if you have < 100 drives? and at that do you> >>	REALLY think you have or will have a LUN that hot to hammer, >>	100 drives to saturation with Random IO?) >> > F > Note that the performance advantage is also an aggregate performanceK > advantage - i.e., ALL your san-based systems use LUNs from the same pool. > > those 168 disk drives are serving LUNs to dozens of systems.    6 	A single LUN resides across a number of disks.  It is> 	a nice thing to point out to someone that you are hitting 168= 	disks but it certainly isn't a performance advantage (except  	whiteboard corner-cases).    ( 			Sequential IO - Covered by pre-fetch.  1 			Bandwidth Intensive - At most you need 5 disks 3 			to saturate a port (granted all 5 saturated that 7 			becomes a choke point so maybe you have a LUN across 1 			at LEAST 20 drives so you don't have this kind  			of choke point)  5 			Random IO - This is the culprit.  But where or who 3 			has a single LUN doing 10000+ Random IO?  Aren't ! 			the DBAs asleep at the swtich?     @ 	So maybe a concession is to always do 2 - 82 disk pools so yourA 	logs are in one pool and your tables are in another.  After all, A 	in that rare event of disk pool loss, it would be a very painful G 	circumstance.  Maybe more pools - less to restore.  But at that , you  G 	would say you have introduced more management.  A minor amount, a bit  C 	of charting would tell you where to create your next LUN based on   	availability/io throughput.     >  This is aM > HUGE savings in time because you don't have to manage these all separately. M > And your response time degrades MUCH, MUCH more linearly, and is alleviated H > much, much more simply (i.e., just adding more spindles to the group).    ? 	I don't see this.  You've got 2 , 3, 4 pools, where to put the > 	next LUN?  The decision overhead has to be a minor affair and> 	when 4-5 years from now when you are losing a drive every fewA 	months in your EVA, you aren't sweating as much as you could be. F 	After all, drives don't fail in the midst of a rebuild do they?  That@ 	was a rhetorical question.  Of course they have and will - rareB 	events but a number of us have seen it, me included.  HP is awareC 	of the possibility - hence an availability best practices for EVA.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:43:20 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <bljcrp$7en$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <blhd71$gh5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>Q >>>Not on VMS (which is the operating system under discussion in this newsgroup).  >>	 >>rubbish  >> >>Mozilla has an IMAP client >  > H >    Which does not prove that we are using it.  I never use IMAP or POPE >    to receive mail on my VMS systems.  I never use a web browser to F >    receive mail on my VMS systems.  There's no reason that I should. >       > No from your header its obvious that you don't but quite a few
 people do.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:45:50 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <bljd0e$7en$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Don Sykes wrote: > * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>Don Sykes wrote: >> >>>Dean Woodward wrote:  >>>  >>> J >>>>Money, money, money. Tell me, people, who gets to keep all this money? >>>  >>> J >>>In the potocol I'm proposing here, the answer is the end user recipientI >>>and some for the user's ESP. Further, there isn't necessarily all that E >>>much. Most people would allow mail from friends and assocciates to G >>>bypass Email charges and only charge for mail from unknown users. In E >>>addition, depending on the implementation, between the ESP and the J >>>recipient, they could credit back a fee if it was charged to a new user# >>>they wanted to communicate with.  >>> H >>>It also appears from comments that I need to describe the interactionG >>>between the ESP and the end recipient. While this in not part of the K >>>protocol I'm proposing, it seems the lack of implementation examples has ! >>>led to some misunderstandings.  >>>  >>E >>Why not introduce a micro-charging mechanism which is refundable if D >>the recipient accepts the email and which isn't if it the email isI >>rejected either by a SPAM filter at the recipients ISP or by recipient.  >> > E > I've considered adding a similar refund mechanism to this idea. The J > micro-charge (Digital's old millicent idea) may also work, but it soundsF > like all emails would be tagged with this charge, which isn't reallyE > necessary. I want free emails for friends, family & known customers G > without having to remember to reverse those charges. I'd also like to ( > set higher charges on some mail types. >   0 Well how about micro-charging with tariff bands.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 07:03:06 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 3 Message-ID: <yoIkIKV+ru0A@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <bljcrp$7en$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > @ > No from your header its obvious that you don't but quite a few > people do.  H    My header on this post is irrelavent.  While c.o.v is cross-posted to1    the info-vax mailing list USENET is not email.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:43:07 +0200 2 From: Wilm Boerhout <w.boerhoutOLD@PAINTplanet.nl>< Subject: Fixed device names for incoming Telnet connections?* Message-ID: <blk26u$75e$1@reader08.wxs.nl>  A Way back when, I used to think up solutions for customers on VMS  D systems. Nowadays, I seem to be back in the field. For one of these " solutions, the following question:  B Can I tweak UCX to generate fixed TNAn: device names for incoming H connections based on, say, the IP address of the originating interface? / I used to do this for incoming LAT connections.   G If Yes to the above, can I have alternae controller names, in order to  F generate TNBn: and TNCn: device names? SYSGEN CONNECT TNB0 /WHATEVER, H and of course specify the Whatever and anything else to tell the Telnet ? server that for some IP addresses, TNBn: or TNCn: is to be used   
 Wilm Boerhout    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 17:05:35 +0100 , From: Adrian Birkett <aaa@notreallyhere.com>D Subject: Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged?1 Message-ID: <3F7D9E4F.A5B2A216@notreallyhere.com>   H This can be modified to show you the files involved. It's a bit slow but	 it works. 3 p1 should be something like $1$dia0:[users...]*.*;*    Ade   
 $ set noon $ on control_y then goto ctly  $ set proc/priv=all  $ if p1 .eqs. "" $ then$ $   inquire/nopunc p1 "Enter path: " $   if p1 .eqs. "" then exit $ endif  $ 
 $ ctx1 = 0
 $ ctx2 = 1	 $ act = 0 	 $ alq = 0  $ files = 0  $  $ loop: ! $   file = f$search("''p1'",ctx1) ' $   if file .eqs. "" then goto finished 4 $   mv = f$search("''f$element(0,";",file)';0",ctx2)H $   if f$parse("''file'",,,"VERSION") .nes. f$parse("''mv'",,,"VERSION") $   then $       files = files + 1 0 $       act = act + f$file_attr("''file'","EOF")0 $       alq = alq + f$file_attr("''file'","ALQ")	 $   endif 
 $   goto loop  $  $ ctly: , $   write sys$output "Interrupted by CTRL-Y" $ finished: = $   write sys$output f$fao("Files: !UL, Used: !UL, Allocated:  !UL",files,act,alq)  $   exit     AMIT wrote:   
 > Hi guys,F > I have a disk with little freespace. would like to do a purge (purge > [...]*.*).D > But before I do that is there some way I can determine the list ofG > files and the size that will be deleted *BEFORE* I issue the command?  >  > Thanks > AS > H > P.S: Sorry, that my mailID kept bouncing all incomming INFO-VAX mails.G > I am being pounded by spammers. Got kicked out of RDB mailing list as 
 > well :-(   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 05:48:11 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) R Subject: Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army3 Message-ID: <f4++VvPbTpyH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <bliba8$cjfdu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  G > contracting.  Anybody here, other than me, think immediately of ULANA  > when they read this?  D Certainly not those of us who have no idea what ULANA stands for :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 15:24:39 GMTi, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)R Subject: Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army9 Message-ID: <blk4bm$cfocd$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>e  3 In article <f4++VvPbTpyH@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:f > In article <bliba8$cjfdu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > H >> contracting.  Anybody here, other than me, think immediately of ULANA >> when they read this?i > F > Certainly not those of us who have no idea what ULANA stands for :-)  L       TRW Named an Awardee of U.S. Air Force Information Technology Services8       Contract, Receives First Task Order Under Contract  r  H     RESTON, Va., Feb. 11 /PRNewswire/ -- The U.S. Air Force has selectedD     TRW Inc. (NYSE: TRW) as one of the awardees for the Information F     Technology Services (ITS) contract, which will provide IT servicesK     to the Air Force, Department of Defense, and civilian federal agencies.   I     The five-year contract has an estimated value of $650 million, with aPI     total potential value -- if fully used -- of $1 billion.  On Jan. 25,PK     the first task order under this contract was issued to TRW for hardwareeH     and software integration.  "We now have a highly flexible vehicle inF     place to cover the entire range of information technology servicesI     requirements.  ITS will satisfy virtually any IT services requirementeI     for our customers worldwide," said Col. Neal Fox, director of the AireG     Force's Commercial Information Technology Product Area Directorate.   G     Reston-based TRW Systems will provide networking, systems, software L     support, security, engineering, data, training, management, integration,H     and comprehensive support services.  The ITS award is a continuationB     of TRW's success with similar contracts such as ULANA I and IIH     (Unified Local Area Network Architecture), CCPL (Command and ControlF     Product Line), and MISTS (Management Information Systems Technical
     Support).e  A    "ITS represents a bellwether program for the development of ITiB     initiatives for the DoD," said Wood Parker, vice president andE     general manager, TRW Global Information Technology Division.  "WebD     will use all of our national and worldwide division competenciesB     and our broad partnering arrangements to deliver effective and6     comprehensive solutions to our federal customers."  B     TRW teammates for the ITS program include Science ApplicationsH     International Corporation (SAIC), San Diego, Calif.; NCI InformationI     Systems, Inc., McLean, Va.; ARINC Incorporated, Annapolis, Md.; CiscopK     Systems, San Jose, Calif.; Advanced Management Technology, Inc. (AMTI),rG     Arlington, Va.; Computer & Hi-Tech Management, Inc. (CHM), VirginiaeJ     Beach, Va., and DekaTron, Washington, DC.  For more information on the/     ITS program, visit http://www.TRWITS.com . S  D     TRW Systems, a unit of TRW Inc., is a global information systemsF     integrator offering a broad range of services to civil and federalE     government, commercial, defense and intelligence markets.  As onerE     of the 10 largest IT providers worldwide, TRW Systems specializescF     in creating repeatable, end-to- end solutions with a primary focusK     in the areas of hardware and software architecture, systems developmenteH     and sustainment.  TRW Inc. provides advanced technology products andC     services for the aerospace, information systems, and automotivesH     markets.  The company, which celebrated its 100th year of operations:     last year, had year-end 2001 sales of $16.4 billion.     Note the second paragraph:;     5 year contract -- $650 million -- potential $1 billionA  C It didn't run 5 years.  It never even approached $650 million, mucht@ less $1 billion.  I don't remember for sure, as that was a wholeE lifetine ago, but I don't think it was even renewed at the end of thev first year.u        bill   -- nK Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves rF bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.   University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 15:33:08 GMTo, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)R Subject: Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army9 Message-ID: <blk4rj$cfocd$3@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   / In article <vnqucu7ovfa2a9@corp.supernews.com>,e+ 	Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com> writes:t. > On 10/3/2003 5:48 AM, Larry Kilgallen wrote:g >> In article <bliba8$cjfdu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:. >> o >>  H >>>contracting.  Anybody here, other than me, think immediately of ULANA >>>when they read this?  >> e >> ,G >> Certainly not those of us who have no idea what ULANA stands for :-)d > G > Unified LAN Architecture was a ~$150M contract about 20 years ago to n' > provide networks to the US Air Force.   E Close, but no cigar.  But ~$150M might come close to what it actuallyn@ worked out to be (although even that sounds a little high).  The9 perpetrators were looking for at least 5 times that much.s   bill   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:28:55 -0500I( From: Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com>Y Subject: Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army ArmyArh/ Message-ID: <vnqucu7ovfa2a9@corp.supernews.com>b  , On 10/3/2003 5:48 AM, Larry Kilgallen wrote:f > In article <bliba8$cjfdu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >  > G >>contracting.  Anybody here, other than me, think immediately of ULANA4 >>when they read this? >  > F > Certainly not those of us who have no idea what ULANA stands for :-)  E Unified LAN Architecture was a ~$150M contract about 20 years ago to l% provide networks to the US Air Force.i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:13:49 +0200( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>- Subject: Re: Missing delta time functionalityd9 Message-ID: <blk7bc$d8pl9$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>l  1 "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com> schreef in bericht8  news:3F7D996D.31EB0B51@hp.com...I > In the technical update day in the Netherlands it was mentioned that it ( > is hard to do delta time calculations.C > In VMS V7.3-2 we added new lexical function F$DELTA_TIME. See theu > following example: >  > BLUSKY> a=f$time() > BLUSKY> b=f$time() > BLUSKY> sh sym a! >   A = " 3-OCT-2003 17:39:58.54"s > BLUSKY> sh sym b! >   B = " 3-OCT-2003 17:40:23.22"s' > BLUSKY> write sys$output f$delta(a,b)t >    0 00:00:24.68 > H > Considering F$DELTA and F$CVTIME what other functionality do you think( > is missing for delta time calcualtion?I > We are currently planning the new features for next VMS version so here & > is your chance to affect the future. >a% > Responde here or just send me mail.h >h
 > Regards, >a > Guy Peleg  > OpenVMS Engineeringn >h Guye  H at that particular meeting it was suggested that adding delta times to a "normal" time would be useful:   $ a=f$time() $ b=f$time() $ dt=f$delta(a,b)p $ ft=f$delta_add(a,dt)  K The result stored in ft could then be used to perform tasks at exact times.r   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:44:45 +0300e" From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com>) Subject: Missing delta time functionalityb& Message-ID: <3F7D996D.31EB0B51@hp.com>  G In the technical update day in the Netherlands it was mentioned that itF& is hard to do delta time calculations.A In VMS V7.3-2 we added new lexical function F$DELTA_TIME. See thep following example:   BLUSKY> a=f$time() BLUSKY> b=f$time() BLUSKY> sh sym a   A = " 3-OCT-2003 17:39:58.54"e BLUSKY> sh sym b   B = " 3-OCT-2003 17:40:23.22" % BLUSKY> write sys$output f$delta(a,b)h    0 00:00:24.68  F Considering F$DELTA and F$CVTIME what other functionality do you think& is missing for delta time calcualtion?G We are currently planning the new features for next VMS version so heree$ is your chance to affect the future.  # Responde here or just send me mail.s   Regards,  	 Guy PelegD OpenVMS Engineeringt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:24:15 +0200e$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>- Subject: Re: Missing delta time functionalityl9 Message-ID: <blk83r$d1srh$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>6  ' On 2003-10-03 17:44, "Guy Peleg" wrote:c   > [...]7 > H > Considering F$DELTA and F$CVTIME what other functionality do you think( > is missing for delta time calcualtion?I > We are currently planning the new features for next VMS version so hereW& > is your chance to affect the future.  , Not specifically related to *delta* time ...  A An addition to F$CVTIME to convert back from *comparison* time toT *absolute* time format.d   Michaelh   -- w; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.o= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)I   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:23:21 +0200 - From: Marc Van Dyck <marc.vandyck@brutele.be> - Subject: Re: Missing delta time functionality 9 Message-ID: <mesnews.1c4f7d3a.2b8d5487.70.584@brutele.be>e   "H Vlems" avait prtendu :3 > "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com> schreef in bericht1" > news:3F7D996D.31EB0B51@hp.com...J >> In the technical update day in the Netherlands it was mentioned that it) >> is hard to do delta time calculations.uD >> In VMS V7.3-2 we added new lexical function F$DELTA_TIME. See the >> following example:n >> w >> BLUSKY> a=f$time()n >> BLUSKY> b=f$time()  >> BLUSKY> sh sym ao" >>   A = " 3-OCT-2003 17:39:58.54" >> BLUSKY> sh sym bs" >>   B = " 3-OCT-2003 17:40:23.22"( >> BLUSKY> write sys$output f$delta(a,b) >>    0 00:00:24.68  >> nI >> Considering F$DELTA and F$CVTIME what other functionality do you thinke) >> is missing for delta time calcualtion? J >> We are currently planning the new features for next VMS version so here' >> is your chance to affect the future.e >>  & >> Responde here or just send me mail. >> v >> Regards,Q >> v >> Guy Peleg >> OpenVMS Engineering >> . > Guyo >aJ > at that particular meeting it was suggested that adding delta times to a  > "normal" time would be useful: >o > $ a=f$time() > $ b=f$time() > $ dt=f$delta(a,b)  > $ ft=f$delta_add(a,dt) >jM > The result stored in ft could then be used to perform tasks at exact times.o >h > Hans  ) Can't you do that with f$cvtime already ?r   Marc.e     -- e
 Marc Van Dyckn   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 17:15:31 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)- Subject: Re: Missing delta time functionalityr. Message-ID: <blkarj$29j$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  p Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> writes in article <3F7D996D.31EB0B51@hp.com> dated Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:44:45 +0300:H >In the technical update day in the Netherlands it was mentioned that it' >is hard to do delta time calculations.8B >In VMS V7.3-2 we added new lexical function F$DELTA_TIME. See the >following example:e >< >BLUSKY> a=f$time()o >BLUSKY> b=f$time()r >BLUSKY> sh sym a   >  A = " 3-OCT-2003 17:39:58.54" >BLUSKY> sh sym by  >  B = " 3-OCT-2003 17:40:23.22"& >BLUSKY> write sys$output f$delta(a,b) >   0 00:00:24.68' >oG >Considering F$DELTA and F$CVTIME what other functionality do you thinke' >is missing for delta time calcualtion?t  A That's a great addition, Guy.  But it doesn't play well with the  - current (7.3-1) implementation of f$cvtime.  n  J The output format you show for f$delta cannot be used as input to f$cvtimeG without modification -- stripping leading blanks and changing the spaceg" between the day and hour to a "-".  $ PROBE$ A = " 3-OCT-2003 17:39:58.54" PROBE$ B = "   5 00:00:24.68"28 PROBE$ write sys$output f$cvtime("''a'+''b'","ABSOLUTE")J %DCL-W-IVATIME, invalid absolute time - use DD-MMM-YYYY:HH:MM:SS.CC format*  \3-OCT-2003 17:39:58.54+   5 00:00:24.68\* PROBE$ b[4,1] := --	! change space to dash _PROBE$1 PROBE$ show sym bc   B = "   5-00:00:24.68"8 PROBE$ write sys$output f$cvtime("''a'+''b'","ABSOLUTE")J %DCL-W-IVATIME, invalid absolute time - use DD-MMM-YYYY:HH:MM:SS.CC format*  \3-OCT-2003 17:39:58.54+   5-00:00:24.68\+ PROBE$ b := 'b'		! eliminate leading spacesu PROBE$ show sym bh   B = "5-00:00:24.68" 8 PROBE$ write sys$output f$cvtime("''a'+''b'","ABSOLUTE") 8-OCT-2003 17:40:23.22  K And what happens if a>b?  I guess there's no such thing as a negative deltam* time.  I can live with that, just curious.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:43:46 +0100, From: "Neil Bush" <ericthepig@despammed.com>M Subject: Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same program * Message-ID: <7Fafb.1$%Q4.233@psinet-eu-nl>   Hein van den Heuvel wrote: > Neil Bush wrote: >  >> Tom Wade wrote:C >>>>    The easiest way would be to have the program enqueue a lockn >>>> based on the username.l >>>p7 >>> If you only want the restriction to be no more than-H >>> once on any given node, then simply include the node name as well as" >>> the username in the lock name. >>H >> Forgive my ignorance, but could anyone provide a code example for me?7 >> The more I read the manual, the more confused I get.s >g > Working example below...  % many thanks Hein, (and everyone else) " what an excellent newsgoup this is   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:23:29 -0400& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com> Subject: Pricing info on DS15 / Message-ID: <vnqqm6i0v1l506@news.supernews.com>t  G Not currently trying to sell these but thought you may be interested in  pricing of the DS15 anyway.n    L DY-75CAA-AA 1Ghz Base System OVMS EIP No Memory $7520  1 Yr Next Day On Site warrantyF 3X-MS315-EA   DS15 1GB Mem Kit;133MHz                      $3350  1 Yr Return  H These are list prices, and there are mandatory purchases on top of these prices such as disk drive,	 disk cagel  F Of course, some of the big players out there I am sure get quite hefty
 discounts.  J If you want to back order from us, then we can offer reasonable discounts, plus we can provide non-CompaqE parts to keep the price down (such as memory,disks tapes and options),  I On the other hand, you can buy 5 x Alphaserver DS10L 617Mhz EV67 all with ! VMS Base license for $8500 total\c# Systems include 256MB and 30GB Diskb Nice cluster setup ?   DT     -- ) David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation" 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404e Tel: 912 447 6622h Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.netA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 05:04:46 -0400-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: SMTP receiver logsr) Message-ID: <3F7D3BA1.2C27C6AF@istop.com>   K On my machine (VAX, 7.2, TCPIP Services 5.3), each time a remote SMTP agenteL connects to my port 25, a new process is created and a new log file created.M This log file contains tons of copyright text and perhaps one or two lines of0 actual SMTP logging.  N Is this the only possible behaviour for the receiver (one image activation per
 connection) ?m8 Is this the only possible behaviour for the log files ?   L If one gets a lot of traffic, this would result in an unmanageable number ofE log files, each containing much more copyright text than actual logs.   0 Is there a way to make the receiver persistent ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:32:59 +0200v9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logsl' Message-ID: <3F7D424B.7437858B@aaa.com>e  , The logs are purged by the startup COM file./ Normaly : TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM. % In there you'll find a PURGE command.u  9 If you don't want new logs to be created, just create one  dummy log as :  ? $ create sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;32768F  = (that can be empty) and no further log files will be created.-  	 Jan-Erik..     JF Mezei wrote:o > M > On my machine (VAX, 7.2, TCPIP Services 5.3), each time a remote SMTP agenttN > connects to my port 25, a new process is created and a new log file created.O > This log file contains tons of copyright text and perhaps one or two lines ofs > actual SMTP logging. > P > Is this the only possible behaviour for the receiver (one image activation per > connection) ?t9 > Is this the only possible behaviour for the log files ?d > N > If one gets a lot of traffic, this would result in an unmanageable number ofG > log files, each containing much more copyright text than actual logs.C > 2 > Is there a way to make the receiver persistent ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:00:43 -0400)* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logsr) Message-ID: <3F7D56DB.37570475@istop.com>i   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:R; > If you don't want new logs to be created, just create oner > dummy log as : > A > $ create sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;32768S > ? > (that can be empty) and no further log files will be created.d  M No ! I want A log of received messages, especially spam rejection logs. But IrP would want one log file containing all connections, not one file per connection.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:29:45 -0400n# From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>t Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logsn* Message-ID: <3F7D95E9.3CD051B@adldata.com>   JF Mezei wrote:s >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:e= > > If you don't want new logs to be created, just create onen > > dummy log as : > >lC > > $ create sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;32768n > > A > > (that can be empty) and no further log files will be created.  > O > No ! I want A log of received messages, especially spam rejection logs. But IaR > would want one log file containing all connections, not one file per connection.  + You could set a maximum number of versions:aL 	$SET FILE/version_limit=20 sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG? But if you delete all the log files, you will have to reset it. Y When you hit version 32768, you will have to delete/reset it if you stiil want log files.a  L My copy of TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM purges the log files keeping, a number of items based on the cluster size. 	$       ! Purge log files
 	$       !+ 	$       SAVE=5+2*f$getsyi("CLUSTER_NODES") 4 	$       PURGE/KEEP='save' SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP], This makes the first item above unnecessary.  K Each incoming email is a separate job with its own login and processing of  M SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM files leaving information in the log files. You can L use the value of F$MODE() to determine the type of job (INTERACTIVE NETWORK  BATCH OTHER).   E You could determine the name of the current procedure being executed =J (f$environment("PROCEDURE")) together with F$PARSE, to extract the running dcl file name and directory. )  E This information can be used with "IF" statements to bypass the code R not needed for smtp processing.|   Sol Gongola  ADL Data Systems Inc Dobbs Ferry, NY    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:49:43 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logsw) Message-ID: <03100310494356@antinode.org>w  * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  C > No ! I want A log of received messages, especially spam rejection-I > logs. But I would want one log file containing all connections, not onei > file per connection.  @    I can't help you with the log files, but you can get the spam8 rejections into the accounting log with the following in' "SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]SMTP.CONFIG":n   SPAM-Action: ACCOUNTINGP  G    After that, "ACCOUNTING /TYPE = USER /USER = TCPIP$SMTP [...]" seemseH to extract the data, although there usually seems to be some junk at the end of the "user message" text:n  D 41425F50  544D532D  572D5049  50435425   %TCPIP-W-SMTP_BA   00000000D 3C3A4D4F  5246204C  49414D20  2C464D44   DMF, MAIL FROM:<   00000010D 617A625F  61696C61  7469617A  726F663C   <forzaitalia_bza   00000020D 65686374  616D203E  3E74692E  6E697440   @tin.it>> matche   00000030D 7246206C  69614D20  7463656A  65522064   d Reject Mail Fr   00000040D 4F4D4D4F  43535953  2E747369  6C206D6F   om list.SYSCOMMO   00000050  D 41425F50  544D532D  572D5049  50435425   %TCPIP-W-SMTP_BA   00000000D 3C3A4D4F  5246204C  49414D20  2C464D44   DMF, MAIL FROM:<   00000010D 72656269  6C40396F  63766661  75703C20    <puafvco9@liber   00000020D 52206465  68637461  6D203E3E  74692E6F   o.it>> matched R   00000030D 206D6F72  46206C69  614D2074  63656A65   eject Mail From    00000040D 4F4D4D4F  43535953  2E305359  7473696C   listYS0.SYSCOMMO   00000050  F    Is someone not keeping his buffer tidy?  (And I would have wasted a? byte on a period after "list", as it is the end of a sentence.)0  :    Notes to the developers: The 500 character limit on theF "Reject-Mail-From" rule reduces its utility a lot.  I could also use aH few more rules, such as "Reject-Mail-Subject" or "Reject-Mail-Data".  AsG a general guide, consider which features would be required to block theGE recent Microsoft worm message storm.  Other than blocking most of thetC two-letter domains in the world, I did not see much of value in the-8 current feature set, although it is better than nothing.   ALP $ tcpip show version  ?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2e4   on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,org6    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 13:02:49 -0400t) From: sol gongola <solNOSPAM@adldata.com>a Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logs-+ Message-ID: <3F7DABB9.E02B5B30@adldata.com>    sms@antinode.org wrote:  > , > From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> > E > > No ! I want A log of received messages, especially spam rejectionaK > > logs. But I would want one log file containing all connections, not onet > > file per connection. > B >    I can't help you with the log files, but you can get the spam: > rejections into the accounting log with the following in) > "SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]SMTP.CONFIG":0 >  > SPAM-Action: ACCOUNTING2 > I >    After that, "ACCOUNTING /TYPE = USER /USER = TCPIP$SMTP [...]" seems-J > to extract the data, although there usually seems to be some junk at the! > end of the "user message" text:A > F > 41425F50  544D532D  572D5049  50435425   %TCPIP-W-SMTP_BA   00000000F > 3C3A4D4F  5246204C  49414D20  2C464D44   DMF, MAIL FROM:<   00000010F > 617A625F  61696C61  7469617A  726F663C   <forzaitalia_bza   00000020F > 65686374  616D203E  3E74692E  6E697440   @tin.it>> matche   00000030F > 7246206C  69614D20  7463656A  65522064   d Reject Mail Fr   00000040F > 4F4D4D4F  43535953  2E747369  6C206D6F   om list.SYSCOMMO   00000050 > F > 41425F50  544D532D  572D5049  50435425   %TCPIP-W-SMTP_BA   00000000F > 3C3A4D4F  5246204C  49414D20  2C464D44   DMF, MAIL FROM:<   00000010F > 72656269  6C40396F  63766661  75703C20    <puafvco9@liber   00000020F > 52206465  68637461  6D203E3E  74692E6F   o.it>> matched R   00000030F > 206D6F72  46206C69  614D2074  63656A65   eject Mail From    00000040F > 4F4D4D4F  43535953  2E305359  7473696C   listYS0.SYSCOMMO   00000050 > H >    Is someone not keeping his buffer tidy?  (And I would have wasted aA > byte on a period after "list", as it is the end of a sentence.)o > < >    Notes to the developers: The 500 character limit on theH > "Reject-Mail-From" rule reduces its utility a lot.  I could also use aJ > few more rules, such as "Reject-Mail-Subject" or "Reject-Mail-Data".  AsI > a general guide, consider which features would be required to block the G > recent Microsoft worm message storm.  Other than blocking most of the0E > two-letter domains in the world, I did not see much of value in theO: > current feature set, although it is better than nothing. >  > ALP $ tcpip show version > A >   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2 6 >   on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1 > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,orgw >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    hear! hear!m  ( I didn't know they were taking requests:H Can we implement some of the RFC1893 status codes, such as the codes for X.3.1 Mail System Full. x.2.1 Mailbox disabled, not accepting messsage x.2.2 Mailbox full1 x.2.3 Message length exceeds administrative limitU  X.3.4 Message too big for system etc.   sol gongola  ADL Data Systems Inc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 13:42:08 -0400 + From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>e Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logs ) Message-ID: <3F7D7CB0.643BB212@yahoo.com>o   sol gongola wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:u > >, > > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: ? > > > If you don't want new logs to be created, just create onee > > > dummy log as : > > >rE > > > $ create sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;32768  > > >oC > > > (that can be empty) and no further log files will be created.e > >nQ > > No ! I want A log of received messages, especially spam rejection logs. But I-T > > would want one log file containing all connections, not one file per connection.  G Although there are lots of bugs and inadequacies with the HP SMTP code,RG the arrangement of having a new process for each SMTP connection solvesnB many of the design issues that would have been harder to do with aE single process.  Since you get a new process with each connection, ifs? that process crashes, you don't have to worry about having some D mechanism in place to restart it to avoid a DoS situation.  Have youG seen operator.log showing the receiver dying with an access violation?  G I get at least a few every few months.  I've haven't been able to track B down why they happen but I'm pretty sure that they're due to buggyD senders sending malformed SMTP commands such as ones with mismatchesF <LF> and/or <CR> sequences instead of a <CR><LF> pair.  I know there'sA definitely a bug that bombs the SMTP symbiont's ability to send a-E message when there are line delimiters of <CR><CR><LF> in the body ofrH the mail message.  The receiver accepts the message and places it in theI queue with no problem but the control file that it creates is defective. -G Luckily, it doesn't crash the symbiont or that would certainly be a DoSw problem.  E Since smtp.config has been added, you can edit it on the fly and haveoD the receiver use each new version as it becomes available is one newD benefit.  Of course there are some downsides to the multiple process0 approach and performance is certainly a big one.  G The default SPAM-Action puts the spam rejection messages to OPCOM or as.B Steven Schweda mentioned, to the accounting file.  That can be the$ single file to track the rejections.  F If you can tolerate the disk space usage, using a TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVELF of 3 gives a pretty good history of your mail in the symbiont log fileD TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG.  Including the size of each message in thereF would be a big help but that's just one of the too many "todo" items IF guess, like including Message-ID and the message delivery status reply( that's provided by the receiving system.   > - > You could set a maximum number of versions:dU >         $SET FILE/version_limit=20 sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOGwA > But if you delete all the log files, you will have to reset it. [ > When you hit version 32768, you will have to delete/reset it if you stiil want log files.p > N > My copy of TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM purges the log files keeping. > a number of items based on the cluster size.# >         $       ! Purge log filese >         $       !t4 >         $       SAVE=5+2*f$getsyi("CLUSTER_NODES")= >         $       PURGE/KEEP='save' SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]   G It would be nice if this purge was actually just for log files but it'seH conspicuously missing a "*.log" in it.  If you keep multiple versions ofC other files, like smtp.config files or distribution lists, they get-B wacked by the purge also.  I've changed this and then forgotten toD re-change it again after an upgrade.  It would be nice if either theB file was changed to really purge just log files or the comment was6 revised to match the consequence of the purge command.  . > This makes the first item above unnecessary. > L > Each incoming email is a separate job with its own login and processing ofO > SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM files leaving information in the log files. You canoM > use the value of F$MODE() to determine the type of job (INTERACTIVE NETWORKl > BATCH OTHER).s > F > You could determine the name of the current procedure being executedL > (f$environment("PROCEDURE")) together with F$PARSE, to extract the running > dcl file name and directory. > F > This information can be used with "IF" statements to bypass the code! > not needed for smtp processing.  > 
 > Sol Gongola  > ADL Data Systems Inc > Dobbs Ferry, NY    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 11:08:46 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit3 Message-ID: <POztxxIPltF8@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  ^ In article <vnppv12drd8vef@corp.supernews.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> writes:M > Permit me to rephrase.  I certainly don't know, but it appears that the sun  > is starting to set.     ? 	It isn't starting to set, it has been setting.  What cracks mel> 	up is the recent downgrades.  As if there was a big surprise.  E 	I've been saying for a few years - the only place they are going is 0A 	down.  It is a Dell/Windows and Linux effect.  Sparc/Solaris is .? 	proprietary and moribound.  The VAX/VMS of the 21st century.  eC 	They'll breath life into it by ditching SPARC and the overhead of cH 	maintaining that infrastructure.  It's staring Scotty in the face, but " 	it is hard to abandon your baby.      				Rob.   ------------------------------   Date: 03 Oct 2003 07:20:47 GMT- From: robrpm2222@aol.comInternet (RobRPM2222) H Subject: Re: Thanks for the informative responses Re: Security Breakdown: Message-ID: <20031003032047.10554.00000185@mb-m14.aol.com>  L >No need for alpha (or VAX) hardware to have a hobbyist system. The Simh VAX: >emulator runs on Intel processors under Linux or Windows. >"	 >regards     wow!  O that is an interesting emulator... whoever thought it up should give themselvese a pat on the back.  
 thanks again.$   -- tL Rob Meyer                            |  "There are only so many ways to hurt> Goshinbudo Jujitsu (MMA)      |  the human body, and everyone M                                             |  invented them." - Dan Inosanto,            ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:31:23 GMTa4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>H Subject: Re: Thanks for the informative responses Re: Security Breakdown0 Message-ID: <3F7DA2E5.BACD61D7@blueyonder.co.uk>   RobRPM2222 wrote:* > N > >No need for alpha (or VAX) hardware to have a hobbyist system. The Simh VAX< > >emulator runs on Intel processors under Linux or Windows. > >e
 > >regards >  > wow! > Q > that is an interesting emulator... whoever thought it up should give themselves: > a pat on the back. >   H yup, of course  its only as reliable and secure as the platform on which> it is running, but a great way to get a hobbyist system going.  L Now, anyone working on that Alpha emulator? If it will run VMS 7.3-2 I don't' care how slow it is (within reason:-)).h    ) -- e tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:16:41 +0200e" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL2 Message-ID: <bljsrv$gl0$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>  G well, my download runs since two days and WSFTP sez "average rate: 16".o   D.   Keith A. Lewis wrote:a  v > huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) writes in article <bkQF7OjVk1VK@vms.mppmu.mpg.de> dated 2 Oct 2003 15:58:12 +0200: > O >>So Your 17 KBytes/s is probably the maximum You can get from a 128 kbs line. f >  > L > Actually 128 kbps = 16 kB/s.  If he's getting 17 while paying for 16, he'd > better not complain!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:25:42 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL2 Message-ID: <bljtct$1bt$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>  H Hmmmm... I use XP and I have no f* idea how to measure the "packet loss  or major latency" :-)    I tried:   cmdT' Microsoft Windows XP [version 5.1.2600]n' (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.   1 C:\Documents and Settings\Didier Morandi>ipconfiga   Configuration IP de Windowsc  ) Carte Ethernet Rseau local via Ethernet:s  ,          Suffixe DNS propre  la connexion :8          Adresse IP. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2:          Masque de sous-rseau . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0:          Passerelle par dfaut . . . . . . : 192.168.0.250  ) C:\Documents and Settings\Didier Morandi> < C:\Documents and Settings\Didier Morandi>ncp sh cou kno line  . Known Line Counters as of  3-OCT-2003 15:17:49   Line = EWA-0  (        >65534  Seconds since last zeroed#        576246  Data blocks receivedr(        567022  Multicast blocks received             0  Receive failure      31128201  Bytes receivedl'      26441361  Multicast bytes receivedc             0  Data overrunT         26077  Data blocks sentg$         18415  Multicast blocks sent/            22  Blocks sent, multiple collisionsn,            13  Blocks sent, single collision.           497  Blocks sent, initially deferred       1646759  Bytes sento#        755632  Multicast bytes sentU             0  Send failureh-             0  Collision detect check failurec-             0  Unrecognized frame destinatione(             0  System buffer unavailable&             0  User buffer unavailable    ' but this is not really talking to me...,   D.   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:   >>I > Perhaps one side is not negotiating MTU properly...  Do you experience  D > packet loss or major latency in the slower direction that isn't a " > proplem in the faster direction?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 07:54:03 -0700l" From: thick_guy_9@yahoo.com (AMIT)% Subject: WTH is documentation for SLSc= Message-ID: <7e127df6.0310030654.63152f86@posting.google.com>;   guys,rD I am trying to find on-line documentation for SLS - COmpaq (ok HP's), tape library product? Any pointers please...( I'd typically have to do HELP STORAGE... thanks in advanceV AS   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:50:07 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>n) Subject: Re: WTH is documentation for SLSI6 Message-ID: <PUgfb.10601$LI.5774@twister.nyroc.rr.com>   It's downloadable from here:  & http://www.support.compaq.com/sms/sls/   -Jeffv  / "AMIT" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:7e127df6.0310030654.63152f86@posting.google.com...  > guys,eF > I am trying to find on-line documentation for SLS - COmpaq (ok HP's). > tape library product? Any pointers please...* > I'd typically have to do HELP STORAGE... > thanks in advancen > AS   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 07:38:40 -0700d- From: djesys@earthlink.net (David J Dachtera)yY Subject: Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Markt= Message-ID: <66a00d01.0310030638.75acf3e9@posting.google.com>   r "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<N35fb.75599$3r1.6739@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... > [snip]J > "This complaint misses the point. The problems caused by viruses are theF > result of criminal acts by people who write viruses," said MicrosoftM > spokeswoman Stacy Drake, adding that Microsoft was working with authorities - > to bring malicious code writers to justice.h  / The words "criminal negligence" come to mind...e   -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsi   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 15:27:26 GMTd, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Y Subject: Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Markj9 Message-ID: <blk4gu$cfocd$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>d  = In article <66a00d01.0310030638.75acf3e9@posting.google.com>,i0 	djesys@earthlink.net (David J Dachtera) writes:t > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<N35fb.75599$3r1.6739@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...	 >> [snip]aK >> "This complaint misses the point. The problems caused by viruses are therG >> result of criminal acts by people who write viruses," said MicrosoftmN >> spokeswoman Stacy Drake, adding that Microsoft was working with authorities. >> to bring malicious code writers to justice. > 1 > The words "criminal negligence" come to mind...t   Also "attractive nuisance".v   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   G   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:36:34 +1000: From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>Y Subject: Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, MarkeC Message-ID: <3f7d9784$0$95044$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>0  ? The tort of negligence, a civil action bye the way requires theRL establishment of a duty of care, a breach of that duty, damages arising from, that breach, and policy deeming it relevant.   Damn good case as I see it   --   David McKenzie  7 David.Mckenzie@paradigm-shift.dot.biz  remove the "dot"> OpenVMS IT Privacy and Law   http://www.paradigm-shift.biza: "David J Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net> wrote in message7 news:66a00d01.0310030638.75acf3e9@posting.google.com...s0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:<N35fb.75599$3r1.6739@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... 
 > > [snip]L > > "This complaint misses the point. The problems caused by viruses are theH > > result of criminal acts by people who write viruses," said MicrosoftC > > spokeswoman Stacy Drake, adding that Microsoft was working withl authorities./ > > to bring malicious code writers to justice.. >>1 > The words "criminal negligence" come to mind.... >  > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systemsn   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 12:23:37 -0500.; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Markh3 Message-ID: <UJPS95jmDu7L@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <66a00d01.0310030638.75acf3e9@posting.google.com>, djesys@earthlink.net (David J Dachtera) writes: t > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<N35fb.75599$3r1.6739@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...	 >> [snip]tK >> "This complaint misses the point. The problems caused by viruses are thetG >> result of criminal acts by people who write viruses," said MicrosofteN >> spokeswoman Stacy Drake, adding that Microsoft was working with authorities. >> to bring malicious code writers to justice. > 1 > The words "criminal negligence" come to mind...   H    Unknowledgable folks have compared the virus problem for MS to havingG    graffiti written on your building, not the builder's fault thet say.-  G    A friend of mine says it's more like someone sprays graffiti on yourm5    building, and the building falls down as a result.t    uC    I say placing your trust in Microsoft is like putting money in acD    bank, which then stores it on the sidewalk.  If someone passes byG    and takes the money they are in fact guilty of theft, but I wouldn't C    use that bank in the first place.  Microsoft's attitude has beenSF    they're only responsible to make sure it's a good looking sidewalk.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:50:42 GMTf3 From: wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace) % Subject: Re: [5] Counter Googling :-(o0 Message-ID: <3f7d5464.172393783@news.eircom.net>  , On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 01:33:15 -0400, JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  N >Ethically, when someone uses telephone books to find my address and telephoneM >number to contact me, it si proper use of that information. But when someonerO >does the same and posts that information in newsgroups along with all sorts of:0 >fabulated stories, that is invasion of privacy.  E That is invasion of privacy, I completely agree with you on that one.    -- w "Sore wa himitsu desu."  To reply by email, removeV the small snack from address.o! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacet   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.548 ************************