1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 04 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 549       Contents: Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: Cable for RAID Array 310 ?, Data Center Calculator - or costs in general0 Re: Data Center Calculator - or costs in general Re: DS15 systems have arrived  Re: DS15 systems have arrived 2 Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create?@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)P Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army ArmyAr$ Re: Missing delta time functionality$ Re: Missing delta time functionality NSlookup bug: flex scanner Re: NSlookup bug: flex scanner Re: NSlookup bug: flex scanner Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: shadowing the system disk 2 smtp problem: Status: 4.4.7 Unable to contact host6 Re: smtp problem: Status: 4.4.7 Unable to contact host6 Re: smtp problem: Status: 4.4.7 Unable to contact host Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: SMTP receiver logs Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: Sun takes a hit P Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Mark  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:26:05 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures' Message-ID: <3F7E21AD.2419B98B@fsi.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  > k > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<blhr8a$c5rba$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>... K > > I believe he is refering to "Technical features needed to support VMS". I > > The argument has always been (at least from my limited understanding) F > > that the x86 acrhitecture lacked modes/features needed to make VMS > > work as it is intended.  > F > VMS running on Charon-VAX on x86 would seem to be an existence proof# > that this argument must be false.   H ...with the exception that the VEL (VAX Emulation Layer) is necessary to make up for said lack.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:10:38 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ' Subject: Re: Cable for RAID Array 310 ? ' Message-ID: <3F7DD7BE.FE93B956@aaa.com>   < I *have* working cables. I just was a bit confused about why: the BN21K cables that *should* work according to the RA3102 docs didn't, and a standard wide SCSI cable did...  	 Jan-Erik.   
 Island wrote:  > 
 > Jan Erik >  > We have some cables in stock   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:15:32 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)5 Subject: Data Center Calculator - or costs in general 1 Message-ID: <03100315153233@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   : I am looking for general costs for building a Data Center.  2 I stumbled across this neat calculator on the web:B http://www.ellerbebecket.com/static/relatedresources/dctrcost.html    / However, it assumes I am building from scratch.   N Anyone have another source for such a thing?  I do not want to pester a vendorO - they will do nothing but call me back about when I am building (pipe dream at E best).  I just want something that will allow me to play the numbers.          J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:39:58 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 9 Subject: Re: Data Center Calculator - or costs in general & Message-ID: <3F7E24EE.C3DBA92@fsi.net>   John Brandon wrote:  > < > I am looking for general costs for building a Data Center. > 4 > I stumbled across this neat calculator on the web:D > http://www.ellerbebecket.com/static/relatedresources/dctrcost.html > 1 > However, it assumes I am building from scratch.  > P > Anyone have another source for such a thing?  I do not want to pester a vendorQ > - they will do nothing but call me back about when I am building (pipe dream at G > best).  I just want something that will allow me to play the numbers.   H Well, putting aside for a moment the regional variations in union wages,G costs of permits and such, that seems an awful over-simplification of a B highly-complex project. Add in the current economic variables, theF unique challenges of the building you're dealing with, etc. and you've( got rather a task laid out for yourself.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:24:21 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>& Subject: Re: DS15 systems have arrived9 Message-ID: <blkmu8$ddmid$2@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   . On 2003-10-03 01:06, "Robert Deininger" wrote:  4 > The DS15 has appeared on the alphaserver web page: > 7 > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ds15/index.html  >  > [...]  > C > The QuickSpecs, Overview, Technical Summary, and User's Guide are   > available from the above page.  E That seems to be the first "entry level legacy-free system", i.e., no C parallel port and no diskette drive (which I don't miss at all) ...    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 19:48:49 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: DS15 systems have arrived3 Message-ID: <V7ZBlA+Gj$kv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <blkmu8$ddmid$2@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:0 > On 2003-10-03 01:06, "Robert Deininger" wrote: > 5 >> The DS15 has appeared on the alphaserver web page:  >>  8 >> http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ds15/index.html >>   >> [...] >>  D >> The QuickSpecs, Overview, Technical Summary, and User's Guide are! >> available from the above page.  > G > That seems to be the first "entry level legacy-free system", i.e., no E > parallel port and no diskette drive (which I don't miss at all) ...   % It still seems to use a PS2 keyboard.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Oct 2003 08:43:23 GMT 7 From: yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) ; Subject: Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? $ Message-ID: <2003Oct1.084323@hujicc>  N > It would be kind of surprising if the EVA couldn't maintain a common reserveJ > of spares (exactly as many as it would use for one big group) and parcel9 > them out to whichever group(s) needed them as required.   N I do not have a hot spare. Instead, when a disk gets broken the EVA recomputesL the data on it, re-level the other disks, and when done you are again at theK optimaum  level (i.e. the next disk can fail...). However, you need to have / enough spare disk space in each group for this. =                                                     __Yehavi:    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 15:32:59 GMT < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <blk4rb$g6b$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  J In article <bli3vb$92j$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:O >>This is true for a normal end-user but not for a spammer. I'm quite confident M >>that the ISP will charge every user that exceeds a certain mail limit. This > >>will happen in GB as well as in Brazil. This is what I want. >>   > J >Sorry I doubt it will have any effect other than raising connection fees.  I I cannot proofe it. But what I notice at the moment is the following: the O current fee for a spammer is a fixed one. So when it sends 10,000 mails out and L he finds only one stupid person that will pay, it will send 1,000,000 out toL find at least ten people. Next, it will send 10,000,000 mails out because itL costs the same. Now with the fee, an ISP will calculate its fee on the basisN of his normal users which send about 10 messages per day. Do you think the ISPM will tolerate an excessive increase in his costs? The rates of ISPs today are L very often based on a certain amount of data (e.g. up to a limit of 5 GB perK month). With the e-mail fee the contracts will look pretty much the same: a N monthly fee that includes 500 e-mails per month and 5 GB or something similar.  N The problem is, how does one force the average ISP on earth to force people toJ such a contract? This is why I suggest a tax or similar on the few largestG companies that is based on the amount of mail that passes through them.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:32:16 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) ) Message-ID: <bll0tv$8rn$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   J In article <bli3vb$92j$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:p >In article <blhfnf$hak$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:L >>In article <blh75m$t7p$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:N >>>So your not charging for mail at all. Your just adding an extra premium on L >>>traffic charges for shipping a particular type of packet - whether it is O >>>part of a valid transaction, lost packet - about to be dropped when it's TTL M >>>runs out, retransmitted packet because it didn't arrive within the timeout  >>>period etc etc  >>J >>But in most cases this packet will be part of a successfully transmitted	 >>e-mail.  >>O >>>You can get back maybe as far as the ISP on that basis. The ISP would have a 9 >>>hell of a job charging individual users on that basis. I >>>Individual user sent a mail message is understandable to the end user. Q >>>Individual sent a packet - which then had to be retransmitted - so you pay for  >>>two mail messages isn't.  >>> G >>>So to cover itself the ISP increases it's monthly connection charge. N >>>The end user sees no difference - this has no effect on SPAM just increases+ >>>connection charges up and down the line.  >>O >>This is true for a normal end-user but not for a spammer. I'm quite confident M >>that the ISP will charge every user that exceeds a certain mail limit. This > >>will happen in GB as well as in Brazil. This is what I want. >>   > J >Sorry I doubt it will have any effect other than raising connection fees. > I Just thought of another flaw with this approach of looking for <CR>.<CR>   packets.  I Encryption. A fair number of systems are now encrypting the whole virtual M SMTP connection between their central mailhubs and any other central mailhubs K which support TLS/SSL with SMTP. Admittedly the number of systems currently 1 doing this is relatively small but it is growing. H Since the whole virtual connection is encrypted you cannot look into the( packets for a sequence such as <CR>.<CR>  J Admittedly you might be able to get around this by looking instead for theH initial setting up of the encrypted channel but this gets messy as theirK is more than one way of setting this up and you would also still need to be ) looking for normal unencrypted smtp mail.       
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >David Webb  >VMS and Unix team leader  >CCSS  >Middlesex University  >  > 
 >>Regards, >>   Christoph Gartmann  >> >>--  G >> Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452  >> ImmunbiologieK >> Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de  >> D-79011  Freiburg, Germany ; >>               http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 00:38:57 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) ) Message-ID: <bll4r1$a3n$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   o In article <blk4rb$g6b$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes: K >In article <bli3vb$92j$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: P >>>This is true for a normal end-user but not for a spammer. I'm quite confidentN >>>that the ISP will charge every user that exceeds a certain mail limit. This? >>>will happen in GB as well as in Brazil. This is what I want.  >>>  >>K >>Sorry I doubt it will have any effect other than raising connection fees.  > J >I cannot proofe it. But what I notice at the moment is the following: theP >current fee for a spammer is a fixed one. So when it sends 10,000 mails out andM >he finds only one stupid person that will pay, it will send 1,000,000 out to M >find at least ten people. Next, it will send 10,000,000 mails out because it M >costs the same. Now with the fee, an ISP will calculate its fee on the basis O >of his normal users which send about 10 messages per day. Do you think the ISP N >will tolerate an excessive increase in his costs? The rates of ISPs today areM >very often based on a certain amount of data (e.g. up to a limit of 5 GB per L >month). With the e-mail fee the contracts will look pretty much the same: aO >monthly fee that includes 500 e-mails per month and 5 GB or something similar.  >   L No spammer sends out those numbers of mail messages. They would tie up their machines for too long.N The spammer sends out a very few mail messages with large numbers of envelope J recipients and lets other systems generate all the separate mail messages.  K That's the other problem with your idea. International net company A has no K idea of the context of the packet it is seeing hence it has no idea whether N this packet is part of a mail message destined for one user at the destinationL system or a 1000 users at the destination system. Most modern mailhubs don't@ split a message to multiple recipients until they are forced to.E If mailhub A has received a message for 100 people  - 50 of whom are  = of the form user@company-x.com and 50 of whom are of the form K user@company-y.com it will generate two mail messages with the appropriate  D envelope recipient addresses and forward them onto the mailhubs for   company-x.com and company-y.com.M Only when they arrive at these company's mailhubs will further splitting into " multiple mail messages take place.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    O >The problem is, how does one force the average ISP on earth to force people to K >such a contract? This is why I suggest a tax or similar on the few largest H >companies that is based on the amount of mail that passes through them. > 	 >Regards,  >   Christoph Gartmann >  >-- F > Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 > Immunbiologie J > Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de > D-79011  Freiburg, Germany: >               http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:39:15 -0500 ( From: Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com>Y Subject: Re: HP, three other vendors, sign $500M right-to-sell deal with U.S. Army ArmyAr . Message-ID: <vns968i47uu3b@corp.supernews.com>  - On 10/3/2003 10:33 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote: 1 > In article <vnqucu7ovfa2a9@corp.supernews.com>, - > 	Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com> writes:  > . >>On 10/3/2003 5:48 AM, Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>g >>>In article <bliba8$cjfdu$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>>  >>>  >>> I >>>>contracting.  Anybody here, other than me, think immediately of ULANA  >>>>when they read this? >>>  >>> G >>>Certainly not those of us who have no idea what ULANA stands for :-)  >>G >>Unified LAN Architecture was a ~$150M contract about 20 years ago to  ' >>provide networks to the US Air Force.  >  > G > Close, but no cigar.  But ~$150M might come close to what it actually B > worked out to be (although even that sounds a little high).  The; > perpetrators were looking for at least 5 times that much.  >  > bill >   B I was referring to ULANA I, which I think was ~150M.  I think the I ceiling for ULANA II was ~600M.  However, I could be wrong since ULANA I  F was waaaaay before my time and I'm simply regurgitating a reference I  saw a while back.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 12:48:08 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: Missing delta time functionality 3 Message-ID: <ig+D5Fx08Lgq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   K In article <3F7D996D.31EB0B51@hp.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> writes:  > H > Considering F$DELTA and F$CVTIME what other functionality do you think( > is missing for delta time calcualtion?I > We are currently planning the new features for next VMS version so here & > is your chance to affect the future. >   E    These aren't all delta times, but since your working in that area:       $ a = "WEDNESDAY 10:00"    $ b = "THURSDAY 13:00"     $ c = f$delta(a,b)     $ show symbol c       1 03:00:00.000  9    $ write f$cvtime("3-oct-2003",,"DOY")	  !(day of year)     276  .    $ write f$cvtime("3-oct-2003",,"LEAP_YEAR")    False  8    $ write f$cvtime("3-oct-2003 18:33:30",,"JULIAN_DAY")    2452916.27326  H       (reference http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.html, must"        be corrected for time zone)  G    The following is cute, but does not have to be officially supported; /    also note the algorithm I have may be wrong.   7    $ write f$cvtime("3-oct-2003 13:37:09",,"STAR_DATE") 
    37895.7658    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:19:38 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>- Subject: Re: Missing delta time functionality 9 Message-ID: <blkmu7$ddmid$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   , On 2003-10-03 19:15, "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:   > [...]  > M > And what happens if a>b?  I guess there's no such thing as a negative delta , > time.  I can live with that, just curious.  D The "runtime" of your (batch) job will be "17-NOV-1858 12:34:56" for example ...    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:14:45 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com># Subject: NSlookup bug: flex scanner ) Message-ID: <3F7DCAA3.44B0AC45@istop.com>   & VAX VMS 7.2,  TCPIP services 5.3 ECO 2  J Sue, can you make sure nobody in the TCPIP group is allowed to go surfing,I lounge by the poolside or play golf this weekend ?  They need to do their  homework first...     
 $ nslookup# Default Server:  BIKE.chocolate.com  Address:  10.0.0.10    > www.digital.com  Server:  BIKE.chocolate.com  Address:  10.0.0.10    Non-authoritative answer:  Name:    www.hpgtm.speedera.net ' Addresses:  192.151.52.187, 192.6.234.9 1 Aliases:  www.digital.com, whp-jump.extweb.hp.com    > + [Interrupt Process]  <---- I press <ctrl-c>    > 9   fatal flex scanner internal error--end of buffer missed ( %NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 00000002 $    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 15:41:52 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ' Subject: Re: NSlookup bug: flex scanner 3 Message-ID: <33m+593Giv3C@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3F7DCAA3.44B0AC45@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:( > VAX VMS 7.2,  TCPIP services 5.3 ECO 2 > L > Sue, can you make sure nobody in the TCPIP group is allowed to go surfing,K > lounge by the poolside or play golf this weekend ?  They need to do their  > homework first...  >  >  > $ nslookup% > Default Server:  BIKE.chocolate.com  > Address:  10.0.0.10  >  >> www.digital.com > Server:  BIKE.chocolate.com  > Address:  10.0.0.10  >  > Non-authoritative answer: ! > Name:    www.hpgtm.speedera.net ) > Addresses:  192.151.52.187, 192.6.234.9 3 > Aliases:  www.digital.com, whp-jump.extweb.hp.com  >  >>- > [Interrupt Process]  <---- I press <ctrl-c>  >  >>; >   fatal flex scanner internal error--end of buffer missed * > %NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 00000002 > $   A 	Ah, so you too have discovered they are using the best?  FLEX is 
 	the best!  H http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/modern/c/software/flex/flex.html#SEC3    1 http://www-scf.usc.edu/~csci410/handouts/flex.pdf   9 	FLEX is more powerful, features FLEX has that lex lacks:   3 http://dinosaur.compilertools.net/flex/flex_20.html    C++ scanners %option  start condition scopes start condition stacks$ interactive/non-interactive scanners yy_scan_string() and friends
 yyterminate()  yy_set_interactive() yy_set_bol() YY_AT_BOL()  <<EOF>>  <*>  YY_DECL  YY_START YY_USER_ACTION YY_USER_INIT #line directives %{}'s around actions multiple actions on a line    C 	Fixing-up and trapping that ctrl-c is not a hard thing to do.  One : 	of the cooler things is <<EOF>>, when all the scanning isF 	done - do what is under <<EOF>>, i.e. post-processing without leaving
 	the scanner.    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 04:58:19 GMT ; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net> ' Subject: Re: NSlookup bug: flex scanner < Message-ID: <Lrsfb.1787$qj6.1395649@news1.news.adelphia.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3F7DCAA3.44B0AC45@istop.com... ( > VAX VMS 7.2,  TCPIP services 5.3 ECO 2 > L > Sue, can you make sure nobody in the TCPIP group is allowed to go surfing,K > lounge by the poolside or play golf this weekend ?  They need to do their  > homework first...  >  >  > $ nslookup% > Default Server:  BIKE.chocolate.com  > Address:  10.0.0.10  >  > > www.digital.com  > Server:  BIKE.chocolate.com  > Address:  10.0.0.10  >  > Non-authoritative answer: ! > Name:    www.hpgtm.speedera.net ) > Addresses:  192.151.52.187, 192.6.234.9 3 > Aliases:  www.digital.com, whp-jump.extweb.hp.com  >  > > - > [Interrupt Process]  <---- I press <ctrl-c>  >  > > ; >   fatal flex scanner internal error--end of buffer missed * > %NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 00000002 > $    JF-   L I tried to reproduce this problem but I don't have a machine with a scanner.L I also checked the cabinet and it doesn't appear that any of our buffers are missing; they are all accounted for.    -John   C P.S. The pool is closed for the season and it's 40F here right now.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 17:39:38 -0700 ! From: sqr_luser@yahoo.co.uk (sqr) ' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! = Message-ID: <a5a4b9f6.0310031639.43ce0955@posting.google.com>   G I barely able to think but of this guy is ass with a new purple shorts.    --   sqr  -- ftp://sqr.myftp.biz     y "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net> wrote in message news:<cQ5BkasPfIKK1CE0A7AFJhlWNH3oILWE@mail.ats-computers.com>... 5 > "Wayne Throop" <throopw@sheol.org> wrote in message  > news:1065066981@sheol.org...' > > : The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com>   > > : Read this and weap, twats! > > L > > "Weap".  "Genius".  A self-contradictory juxtaposition if ever there was > > one. > < > A bit like "Wayne". "Throop". "Signs of intelligent life".   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 17:43:13 -0700 ! From: sqr_luser@yahoo.co.uk (sqr) ' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! = Message-ID: <a5a4b9f6.0310031643.2ee1fa7f@posting.google.com>   D Hay...of this guy is mocking fun of both goups......Lets bet him....  ) <punch kock suck: from the windoze group> * <laugh point mock: from the Linucks group>   --   sqr  -- ftp://sqr.myftp.biz     W The Genius <heavybrain@bigIQ.com> wrote in message news:<3F7B7776.2080904@bigIQ.com>... 
 > Rick wrote: 9 > > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:43:48 +0100, The Genius wrote:  > > (snip)   > >  > >>The Genius.....  > >  > > ... is an idiot. > ' > A repeat from a previous thread......  >  >  > I > You are jealous because you mind does not encompass the grand scale of  B > things.  To you, people you consider are idiots, have much more 4 > intellect, and wit than you could possibly imagine >  > Remember this:-  > J > Linucks is for Lusers, and makes you stupid.  Windoze is for people who  > are stupid to begin with.  >  >  > The Genius.....  > ' > So now youv'e get it twice air brain.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:35:38 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! ( Message-ID: <3F7E400A.6518BF5A@mist.com>   "deadl!nk" wrote:  > Z > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A26C9A.6A2BC1DB@SendSpamHere.ORG>...o > > In article <dac6f860.0310021123.73ff0e29@posting.google.com>, sandra@bluebirds-mad.co.uk (deadl!nk) writes:  > > {...snip...}+ > > >You have got to be fucking kidding me!  > > E > > Grow up.  This stupid thread was started by some troll looking to 4 > > evoke the virulent rhetoric of the likes of you. > 
 > probibli; > but that doesn't stop him, or you from being cock suckers  >  > >  > > D > > >VMS is an obsolete steaming pile of shit! It only worked on oneJ > > >hardware platform, and had plenty of problems of it's own. Windows isI > > >a steaming pile of shit too, but at least it's not VMS. I think even I > > >the fucking Wintrolls should be fucking flaming you on that one, you  > > >poor old pathetic VMtroll.  > > C > > Your allusive "facts" about VMS are wrong.  VMS runs on several B > > platforms -- not just on VAX as you would have others believe. > 9 > get a life. this is not the place to be advocating vMs.    Which place is that??   < I happen to like VMS very much.  At least you'll never see a% freeze up due to the o/s or software.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 22:26:17 GMT  From: Beach Runner@nospam.com & Subject: Re: shadowing the system disk* Message-ID: <3F7DF789.68954AED@cfl.rr.com>   shadow_sys_disk 1  shadowing 2  and a shadow license  U the shadow_sys_unit is which device it shows up as.  Such as dsa0 s shadow_sys_unit=0    allocation class can not be 0    Keith is right.        Keith Parris wrote:    > "Antony Wardle" <remove_clothes_antony.wardle@_remove_clothers_optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:<3f7b497a$0$9828$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...  > > shadowing                = 2 > > shadow_max_copy  =1 ' > > shad_sys_unit          = 0   (dsa0)  > 1 > I don't see the need to modify SHADOW_MAX_COPY.  > F > You'll also need to set the SYSGEN parameter ALLOCLASS to a non-zero > value. > G > I agree with the other poster that you need SHADOW_SYS_DISK set to 1.  > H > The last one is spelled SHADOW_SYS_UNIT.  AUTOGEN typically won't flag > mis-spellings as an error. > , > > I am assuming that a nas250 licence will > > let me do shadowing? > 7 > According to an archived Systems & Options Catalog at H > http://h18002.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/SOC/QBQ25CPF.PDF, NAS250 > includes: 2 > o  DECforms for OpenVMS VAX Run-Time Only System% > o  DECwindows Motif for OpenVMS VAX 1 > o  DECprint Supervisor (DCPS) for OpenVMS, Base 1 > o  DECprint Supervisor (DCPS) for OpenVMS, Plus 1 > o  DEC Distributed Queuing Services for OpenVMS 8 > o  Reliable Transaction Router for OpenVMS VAX, Client+ > o  DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS VAX End System  > o  DECnet-VAX End Node$ > o  DEC TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS( > o  VAXcluster Software for OpenVMS VAXH > and notes "(DCE Runtime Services are licensed with OpenVMS and shipped > as a separate kit)"  > 0 > but I don't see Volume Shadowing in that list.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:35:29 -0400 ) From: sol gongola <solNOSPAM@adldata.com> ; Subject: smtp problem: Status: 4.4.7 Unable to contact host + Message-ID: <3F7DC171.B8593EAA@adldata.com>   ?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3 4   on a AlphaServer 2100 4/275 running OpenVMS V7.2-1  J So far 3 people have been 'reproducibly' unable to email us. 2 are coming H from comcast, 1 from worldnet.att.net. No one else from these sites has G been trying to send us email so i don't know for sure if the sender is  D the problem . The bounced messages all have the same status message:  ) 	Final-Recipient: rfc822; SOL@ADLDATA.COM  	Action: failed 1 	Status: 4.4.7 Unable to contact host for 1 days, K 	Diagnostic-Code: smtp; Persistent Transient Failure: Delivery time expired - 	Last-Attempt-Date: 1 Oct 2003 21:02:13 +0000   A I am using smtp.config but I don't think anything I can put into  % smtp.config could have caused this.     > We are not having any problems receiving messages from others., Does anyone know what could be causing this.  	 thank you  sol gongola  adl data systems inc dobbs ferry, ny    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:22:58 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>? Subject: Re: smtp problem: Status: 4.4.7 Unable to contact host ) Message-ID: <3F7DCC8F.38848BE3@istop.com>    sol gongola wrote:K > So far 3 people have been 'reproducibly' unable to email us. 2 are coming I > from comcast, 1 from worldnet.att.net. No one else from these sites has H > been trying to send us email so i don't know for sure if the sender isF > the problem . The bounced messages all have the same status message: > 2 >         Final-Recipient: rfc822; SOL@ADLDATA.COM  N Just tried to telnet to your SMTP server. First time, it took a VERY long timeM for any welcome banner to appear, and I suspect most mailers would have timed 7 out. Second time, the welcome banner came very quickly.   J On my system, SPAM rejections are sent to OPCOM, so perhaps if you look in, your operator.log, you MIGHT find something.  J Is it possible that your network, or your host have blocked incoming calls from those ISPs ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:05:15 -0400 + From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com> ? Subject: Re: smtp problem: Status: 4.4.7 Unable to contact host ( Message-ID: <3F7D9E3B.41EDD5E@yahoo.com>   sol gongola wrote: > A >   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3 6 >   on a AlphaServer 2100 4/275 running OpenVMS V7.2-1 > K > So far 3 people have been 'reproducibly' unable to email us. 2 are coming I > from comcast, 1 from worldnet.att.net. No one else from these sites has H > been trying to send us email so i don't know for sure if the sender isF > the problem . The bounced messages all have the same status message: > 2 >         Final-Recipient: rfc822; SOL@ADLDATA.COM >         Action: failed: >         Status: 4.4.7 Unable to contact host for 1 days,T >         Diagnostic-Code: smtp; Persistent Transient Failure: Delivery time expired6 >         Last-Attempt-Date: 1 Oct 2003 21:02:13 +0000 > B > I am using smtp.config but I don't think anything I can put into% > smtp.config could have caused this.  > @ > We are not having any problems receiving messages from others.. > Does anyone know what could be causing this. >  > thank you 
 > sol gongola  > adl data systems inc > dobbs ferry, ny   D I just tried a telnet to port 25 of mail.adldata.com and there was aE pause of about one minute before I saw the 220 announcement from your H mail server.  That would correspond to the timeout for the IP address toB name lookup that your server would be doing.  I was coming from anG address that should resolve back to a name but after my HELO test, your D machine's 250 response had "Hello unknown.hostname" in it.  It looksE like your system's DNS resolver isn't working.  If all of your recent D incoming mail has "unknown.hostname" in the received headers, then I think that would confirm it.  A If your Comcast and ATT mail is coming from their servers and not B directly from one of their users, it looks like they've got poorlyG configured servers that have a initial timeout of less than one minute. H At each attempt, their systems are probably giving up before your systemE puts out its 220 announcement.  Any system that has a timeout of more:% than a minute will still get through.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 14:48:10 -0400C+ From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>S Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logs5) Message-ID: <3F7D8C2A.29987DE3@yahoo.com>o   sms@antinode.org wrote:t > , > From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> > E > > No ! I want A log of received messages, especially spam rejectioniK > > logs. But I would want one log file containing all connections, not onee > > file per connection. > B >    I can't help you with the log files, but you can get the spam: > rejections into the accounting log with the following in) > "SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]SMTP.CONFIG":  >  > SPAM-Action: ACCOUNTING  > I >    After that, "ACCOUNTING /TYPE = USER /USER = TCPIP$SMTP [...]" seemseJ > to extract the data, although there usually seems to be some junk at the! > end of the "user message" text:t > F > 41425F50  544D532D  572D5049  50435425   %TCPIP-W-SMTP_BA   00000000F > 3C3A4D4F  5246204C  49414D20  2C464D44   DMF, MAIL FROM:<   00000010F > 617A625F  61696C61  7469617A  726F663C   <forzaitalia_bza   00000020F > 65686374  616D203E  3E74692E  6E697440   @tin.it>> matche   00000030F > 7246206C  69614D20  7463656A  65522064   d Reject Mail Fr   00000040F > 4F4D4D4F  43535953  2E747369  6C206D6F   om list.SYSCOMMO   00000050 > F > 41425F50  544D532D  572D5049  50435425   %TCPIP-W-SMTP_BA   00000000F > 3C3A4D4F  5246204C  49414D20  2C464D44   DMF, MAIL FROM:<   00000010F > 72656269  6C40396F  63766661  75703C20    <puafvco9@liber   00000020F > 52206465  68637461  6D203E3E  74692E6F   o.it>> matched R   00000030F > 206D6F72  46206C69  614D2074  63656A65   eject Mail From    00000040F > 4F4D4D4F  43535953  2E305359  7473696C   listYS0.SYSCOMMO   00000050 > H >    Is someone not keeping his buffer tidy?  (And I would have wasted aA > byte on a period after "list", as it is the end of a sentence.)d > < >    Notes to the developers: The 500 character limit on the4 > "Reject-Mail-From" rule reduces its utility a lot.  D Having multiple (possibly unlimited?) occurrences of the field names% works around the 500 character limit:    Reject-Mail-From: *@badguy! Reject-Mail-From: *@anotherbadguyi$ Reject-Mail-From: *@yetanotherbadguy    .    .    .   >  I could also use a-J > few more rules, such as "Reject-Mail-Subject" or "Reject-Mail-Data".  AsI > a general guide, consider which features would be required to block therG > recent Microsoft worm message storm.  Other than blocking most of thecE > two-letter domains in the world, I did not see much of value in thel: > current feature set, although it is better than nothing.  G Although the HP SMTP isn't completely RFC 821 or 2821 compliant anyway, H blocking with Reject-Mail-Subject or Reject-Mail-Data in the same way asH Reject-Mail-From or Bad-Clients would really conflict with the RFCs.  ItF would interrupt the SMTP transaction while it's in a state where thereF is no provision for the receiver to return a status that says "Go awayD now and there's no point in coming back".  This would guarantee thatG legitimate messages that were blocked would get stuck in their outbound.H mail queues and retry until they timed out.  I do agree that it would beC quite effective in catching mail but you'd have to accept the whole > message and then just drop it or tag it for your user to be in accordance with the RFCs.u  ( I'll throw in my request here again for:  E Reject-Rcpt-To: no-longer-valid-address-thats-now-overrun-by-spammers   E This would block huge amounts of spam and avoid the enormous waste of-H trying to send no-such-user bounces to the spammer's invalid return-pathG addresses.  There has got to be millions of spam messages sent each dayiG with invalid Yahoo return-path addresses that Yahoo has to send bounces D for.  I know we send them about 20 a day and we're not that big of a company.  : And on the subject of improvements, revising the syntax ofI Reject-Mail-From to allow a match on an asterisk would be real nice too. u@ There are spammers that have been using "*@domain-part" as their9 Return-Path and there's no way presently to match that inhG Reject-Mail-From.  It would be real helpful since if you see an addressa& like that, it's guaranteed to be spam.   >  > ALP $ tcpip show version > A >   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2 6 >   on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1 > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,orgr >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:30:10 -0400n* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logs-) Message-ID: <3F7DCE3F.36F75D01@istop.com>0   John Johnstone wrote:uI > Although the HP SMTP isn't completely RFC 821 or 2821 compliant anyway,$J > blocking with Reject-Mail-Subject or Reject-Mail-Data in the same way asJ > Reject-Mail-From or Bad-Clients would really conflict with the RFCs.  ItH > would interrupt the SMTP transaction while it's in a state where thereH > is no provision for the receiver to return a status that says "Go away, > now and there's no point in coming back".   N Not quite. You can block the message at the end of the DATA phase where you doJ have the opporunity to signal that the message was NOT received/processed.M (consider disk full error messages possible under the RFC). Yes, it does meaniN that once you are in the DATA phase, you are essentially comitted to receivingG all the data, but as soon as you've decided the RFC822 header justifies1L dumping the rest of the contents, you can just receive the data and not even bother writing it to disk).o  L My current ISP has implemented a filter for SWEN which loooks for any stringN in the contents. So he looks for a string that represents the fist line of theM bas64 encoded executable.  If found, the message is toast, and that action is0> logged (I get a nighly summary of the messages my ISP blocks).   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 16:46:36 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logse) Message-ID: <03100316463683@antinode.org>   + From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>s  > > >    Notes to the developers: The 500 character limit on the6 > > "Reject-Mail-From" rule reduces its utility a lot.  F > Having multiple (possibly unlimited?) occurrences of the field names' > works around the 500 character limit:3  H    Hmmm.  Seems to work.  Thanks for the useful info.  Was this clear in the documentation?  A    And speaking of the documentation, does anyone actually have a>D "SMTP_CONFIG.TEMPLATE" file, as advertised therein?  I seem not to.   F    Also speaking of the documentation, "spam" is not an acronym, so anE all-caps rendering, as in "SMTP AntiSPAM Field Names" is not strictlydG correct, but see "http://www.spam.com/ci/ci_in.htm" for a more detailed  exposition from the experts.   > >  I could also use a H > > few more rules, such as "Reject-Mail-Subject" or "Reject-Mail-Data".	 > > [...]e  I > Although the HP SMTP isn't completely RFC 821 or 2821 compliant anyway, J > blocking with Reject-Mail-Subject or Reject-Mail-Data in the same way asG > Reject-Mail-From or Bad-Clients would really conflict with the RFCs. m > [...].  5    I'd be happy to settle for "Discard-Mail-Subject",lC "Discard-Mail-Data", and so on, if that would be easier and/or more6E compliant with the applicable RFC(s).  Release a couple of weeks back ( wou;d have been helpful, too, of course.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,orgi    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 20:13:57 -0400i+ From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>t Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logsg) Message-ID: <3F7DD885.3D4B153F@yahoo.com>d   sms@antinode.org wrote:0 > - > From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>h > @ > > >    Notes to the developers: The 500 character limit on the8 > > > "Reject-Mail-From" rule reduces its utility a lot. > H > > Having multiple (possibly unlimited?) occurrences of the field names) > > works around the 500 character limit:p > J >    Hmmm.  Seems to work.  Thanks for the useful info.  Was this clear in > the documentation?  ; It's in there at 17.6.1 but I did miss it initially though.o  C >    And speaking of the documentation, does anyone actually have aoE > "SMTP_CONFIG.TEMPLATE" file, as advertised therein?  I seem not to.o  G Running tcpip$config to enable the SMTP service should extract the filee2 from sys$library:tcpip$templates.tlb and put it inD sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp].  You could do that manually.  The file in the TLB is smtp_config.e   > H >    Also speaking of the documentation, "spam" is not an acronym, so anG > all-caps rendering, as in "SMTP AntiSPAM Field Names" is not strictly-I > correct, but see "http://www.spam.com/ci/ci_in.htm" for a more detailedu > exposition from the experts. >  > > >  I could also use a J > > > few more rules, such as "Reject-Mail-Subject" or "Reject-Mail-Data". > > > [...]  > K > > Although the HP SMTP isn't completely RFC 821 or 2821 compliant anyway,:L > > blocking with Reject-Mail-Subject or Reject-Mail-Data in the same way asH > > Reject-Mail-From or Bad-Clients would really conflict with the RFCs.	 > > [...]h > 7 >    I'd be happy to settle for "Discard-Mail-Subject",iE > "Discard-Mail-Data", and so on, if that would be easier and/or more:G > compliant with the applicable RFC(s).  Release a couple of weeks backi* > wou;d have been helpful, too, of course. > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,org  >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547p   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:03:13 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logsi) Message-ID: <bll68h$ahm$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>a  W In article <3F7D8C2A.29987DE3@yahoo.com>, John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com> writes:i >sms@antinode.org wrote: >> I- >> From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>d >> t >hH >Although the HP SMTP isn't completely RFC 821 or 2821 compliant anyway,I >blocking with Reject-Mail-Subject or Reject-Mail-Data in the same way asiI >Reject-Mail-From or Bad-Clients would really conflict with the RFCs.  IteG >would interrupt the SMTP transaction while it's in a state where thereoG >is no provision for the receiver to return a status that says "Go awayrE >now and there's no point in coming back".  This would guarantee thateH >legitimate messages that were blocked would get stuck in their outboundI >mail queues and retry until they timed out.  I do agree that it would belD >quite effective in catching mail but you'd have to accept the whole? >message and then just drop it or tag it for your user to be ina >accordance with the RFCs. >m  F I'm not sure about this. There is at least one widely used MTA - EXIM K - which can be set to receive the data and pass it whilst still in the SMTP/7 dialogue to an external program for  virus scanning etc 7 The MTA can then either send a success or failure code.c  5 http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.20/doc/html/spec.htmlo  
 chapter 38  $ Adding a local scan function to Exim      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    ) >I'll throw in my request here again for:e >uF >Reject-Rcpt-To: no-longer-valid-address-thats-now-overrun-by-spammers > F >This would block huge amounts of spam and avoid the enormous waste ofI >trying to send no-such-user bounces to the spammer's invalid return-path H >addresses.  There has got to be millions of spam messages sent each dayH >with invalid Yahoo return-path addresses that Yahoo has to send bouncesE >for.  I know we send them about 20 a day and we're not that big of al	 >company.s >c; >And on the subject of improvements, revising the syntax oftJ >Reject-Mail-From to allow a match on an asterisk would be real nice too. A >There are spammers that have been using "*@domain-part" as theira: >Return-Path and there's no way presently to match that inH >Reject-Mail-From.  It would be real helpful since if you see an address' >like that, it's guaranteed to be spam.m >a >>   >> ALP $ tcpip show versionn >> uB >>   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 27 >>   on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1d >> 0K >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------  >> m7 >>    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818r6 >>    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,org  >>    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:42:33 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org Subject: Re: SMTP receiver logsB) Message-ID: <03100320423315@antinode.org>w  + From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com>   J > > > Having multiple (possibly unlimited?) occurrences of the field names+ > > > works around the 500 character limit:  > > L > >    Hmmm.  Seems to work.  Thanks for the useful info.  Was this clear in > > the documentation? > = > It's in there at 17.6.1 but I did miss it initially though.u  #    If you say so, but all I see is:a  E       Or specify each value as a separate instance of same field. Fort       example: S  /       Field1: Item1 Field1: Item2 Field1: Item3           An alternative format is:   !       Field1: Item1, Item2, Item3e  G and neither of those suggests multiple lines of "Feild1" values to me. 0 (I'm looking athK "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6526/6526pro_031.html#index_x_716".)   E > >    And speaking of the documentation, does anyone actually have aeG > > "SMTP_CONFIG.TEMPLATE" file, as advertised therein?  I seem not to.i > I > Running tcpip$config to enable the SMTP service should extract the files4 > from sys$library:tcpip$templates.tlb and put it in > sys$specific:[tcpip$smtp].  G    Ah.  As I upgraded from TCPIP V5.1, and the SMTP service was alreadyeB "Enabled  Started", I saw no reason to run TCPIP$CONFIG.COM again.  , >   You could do that manually.  The file in > the TLB is smtp_config.n       Right you are.  Thanks again.  >    And one more complaint, while I'm in the mood.  Starting atH "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/index.html", I'd've thought that a searchC through "hp OpenVMS systems" for "smtp.config" would've done better  than:s  "                     search results  .                     from openvms systems sites  :                     No results were found for your search.  ? I can't remember the last time I did a search there which foundt	 anything.e  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode,org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Oct 2003 16:28:37 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)r Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0310031528.148b5f12@posting.google.com>8  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<POztxxIPltF8@eisner.encompasserve.org>...1 > 	It isn't starting to set, it has been setting.   ; TheStreet.com says It's been a very, very bad week for Sun.-< http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/kcswanson/10117341.html  1 Motley Fool says it's been Sun's Nightmare Week. tl http://www.fool.com/news/mft/2003/mft03100317.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y&bounce=y&bounce2=y  ? "On Monday, the computer maker issued an earnings warning whileaE tacking on a $1.05 billion charge to last quarter. Yesterday, Merrillh@ Lynch analyst Steve Milunovich sent a hostile open letter to the@ company's board stating that 'Sun faces a crisis.' And now this:? Friday morning, Hewlett Packard announced that it would pay Sun>< customers $25,000 to switch to HP computers running Linux OS
 freeware."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:48:09 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>- Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit/ Message-ID: <vns669rbaa7k2c@news.supernews.com>   > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0310031528.148b5f12@posting.google.com... 8 > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message/ news:<POztxxIPltF8@eisner.encompasserve.org>...a2 > > It isn't starting to set, it has been setting. >n= > TheStreet.com says It's been a very, very bad week for Sun.o> > http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/kcswanson/10117341.html >a2 > Motley Fool says it's been Sun's Nightmare Week. > l http://www.fool.com/news/mft/2003/mft03100317.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y&bounce=y&bounce2=y >hA > "On Monday, the computer maker issued an earnings warning whilesG > tacking on a $1.05 billion charge to last quarter. Yesterday, MerrillsB > Lynch analyst Steve Milunovich sent a hostile open letter to theB > company's board stating that 'Sun faces a crisis.' And now this:A > Friday morning, Hewlett Packard announced that it would pay Suna> > customers $25,000 to switch to HP computers running Linux OS > freeware."  D That's great but will they also pay Sun customers $25,000 to move to OpenVMS?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:55:34 -0700% From: "Scott Stark" <starkh@saic.com>lY Subject: Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, MarkY' Message-ID: <3f7d71c9$1@cpns1.saic.com>e  K From the article, "Dana Taschner, a Newport Beach, Calif., lawyer who filed0D the lawsuit on behalf of a single plaintiff and a potential class ofB millions of Microsoft customers, couldn't be reached for comment."  J I'd like to know who has the huevos to call Microsoft on this one. In thisE day of electronic information/misinformation, I'm fascinated that the L plaintiff's name isn't given...We know it's Kobe and his accuser. Somebody's9 good at keeping things hush, hush... Maybe it's Carly? ;)3  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:UJPS95jmDu7L@eisner.encompasserve.org...@? > In article <66a00d01.0310030638.75acf3e9@posting.google.com>,L/ djesys@earthlink.net (David J Dachtera) writes:i2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:<N35fb.75599$3r1.6739@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...  > >> [snip]hI > >> "This complaint misses the point. The problems caused by viruses are  thenI > >> result of criminal acts by people who write viruses," said MicrosoftdD > >> spokeswoman Stacy Drake, adding that Microsoft was working with authorities 0 > >> to bring malicious code writers to justice. > >o3 > > The words "criminal negligence" come to mind...- >-J >    Unknowledgable folks have compared the virus problem for MS to havingI >    graffiti written on your building, not the builder's fault thet say.3 >CI >    A friend of mine says it's more like someone sprays graffiti on yourc7 >    building, and the building falls down as a result.g >uE >    I say placing your trust in Microsoft is like putting money in aoF >    bank, which then stores it on the sidewalk.  If someone passes byI >    and takes the money they are in fact guilty of theft, but I wouldn'tcE >    use that bank in the first place.  Microsoft's attitude has been H >    they're only responsible to make sure it's a good looking sidewalk. >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.549 ************************