1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 05 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 552       Contents: %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE Re: affordable VMS RE: AMD64 sales figures  RE: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures 3 Re: Another huge bug: DECwindows MAIL: include file 3 Re: Another huge bug: DECwindows MAIL: include file 3 Re: Another huge bug: DECwindows MAIL: include file 3 Re: Another huge bug: DECwindows MAIL: include file  Re: Cable for RAID Array 310 ?< Re: HP lures Solaris users with Linux (was: Sun takes a hit)% Re: Info on Known VMS Exploits/Cracks  Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: Read this and weap, twats! Re: SHOW DEVICE/FULL DSA Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: Sun takes a hit ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL ) Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL  Re: VMS system on the web J worries about files opened by audit server and security server on shutdownN Re: worries about files opened by audit server and security server on shutdownN Re: worries about files opened by audit server and security server on shutdownP Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, MarkP Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Mark  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:27:03 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE $ Message-ID: <blov67$2qu$1@online.de>  4 Further adventures of a hobbyist cluster, continued.  B Experimenting with a VAX 4000 100A, I have a BA350 hooked up.  It C appears to have some sort of DSSI-to-SCSI adapter attached, and is  H attached to the big multi-function connector on the back of the machine.  / The system disk on this machine is a DSSI disk.   F I stuck in a couple of RZ28-VA disks, powered up the BA350, and did a  SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE ALL.   H SHOW DEVICE now reports a different controller name than for the system F disk (i.e. the "node name" in parentheses after the device name).  It F also has an allocation class which is the same as another node in the  cluster.  E I still have archived somewhere the information on how to change the  1 allocation class and name of the DSSI controller.   F At the moment, the DSSI controller with the system disk on it has the I same allocation class as the VAX itself (i.e. for those disks which show  @ up on the SCSI controller on the VAX, such as the CD-ROM drive).  H Would it make sense to give this new DSSI controller (I assume there areH two separate controllers, rather than the connector on the back being anF extension of the internal DSSI bus---otherwise the node names would beH different, right?) the same allocation class which is in use on the rest= of the machine (for the machine itself and for the other DSSI 
 controller)?    F The disks show up as $1$DIA10: etc in the BA350, so there would be no A naming conflict with the internal disk ($5$DIA3:---of course the  G allocation classes would be the same if I change the 1 to 5 on the new  $ controller connected to the BA 350).  I The two SCSI disks seem to be OK otherwise (i.e. when connected directly  H to a SCSI controller, they appear to work).  MOUNT on the VAX now gives:  I    %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE, inconsistent number of blocks reported, some data      may not be accessible  F What causes this message?  Should I worry about it?  What can I do to  prevent it?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:07:15 +0200( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> Subject: Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE 9 Message-ID: <blp55l$eia5c$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>1 schreef in bericht news:blov67$2qu$1@online.de... 6 > Further adventures of a hobbyist cluster, continued. > C > Experimenting with a VAX 4000 100A, I have a BA350 hooked up.  It D > appears to have some sort of DSSI-to-SCSI adapter attached, and isJ > attached to the big multi-function connector on the back of the machine.   Is it a DWZZA-nn perhaps?  > 1 > The system disk on this machine is a DSSI disk.  > G > I stuck in a couple of RZ28-VA disks, powered up the BA350, and did a  > SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE ALL.  > I > SHOW DEVICE now reports a different controller name than for the system G > disk (i.e. the "node name" in parentheses after the device name).  It G > also has an allocation class which is the same as another node in the 
 > cluster.H The DSSI/SCSI bus converter behaves similar to an HSC50 in a CI cluster.L Where a DSSI disk has its own built-in controller that lets you set ALLCLASSI etc., SCSI disks do not have that feature of course. The DWZZA does that. F IIRC it also allows you to assign device names to the disks, so if youD prefer DUA names instead of DIA then the DWZZA will do that as well. > F > I still have archived somewhere the information on how to change the3 > allocation class and name of the DSSI controller.  >  $ help set host /dup  G > At the moment, the DSSI controller with the system disk on it has the J > same allocation class as the VAX itself (i.e. for those disks which showB > up on the SCSI controller on the VAX, such as the CD-ROM drive). > J > Would it make sense to give this new DSSI controller (I assume there areJ > two separate controllers, rather than the connector on the back being anH > extension of the internal DSSI bus---otherwise the node names would beJ > different, right?) the same allocation class which is in use on the rest? > of the machine (for the machine itself and for the other DSSI  > controller)? >   K As long as you do not add another DSSI VAX on that bus you can use the same 
 ALLOCLASS.  G > The disks show up as $1$DIA10: etc in the BA350, so there would be no B > naming conflict with the internal disk ($5$DIA3:---of course theH > allocation classes would be the same if I change the 1 to 5 on the new& > controller connected to the BA 350). >   L It is one reason why you'd want a different ALLOCLASS value for the disks inK the BA35x cabinet. As long as the device names are not identical to already ! present disks there's no problem.   J > The two SCSI disks seem to be OK otherwise (i.e. when connected directlyJ > to a SCSI controller, they appear to work).  MOUNT on the VAX now gives: > J >    %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE, inconsistent number of blocks reported, some data >    may not be accessible > G > What causes this message?  Should I worry about it?  What can I do to 
 > prevent it?  > K Perhaps the size? I can no longer remember the size of the largest RF disk, H was it 2 GB? So if you put in a 4 GB RZ29 then the DIdriver probably gotI somewhat suprised. If you do have a DWZZA then you might work around that - problem by telling it to use DU device names.    Hans   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:08:30 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE $ Message-ID: <blp8ku$d8h$1@online.de>  C In article <blp55l$eia5c$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "H Vlems" ! <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:    E > > Experimenting with a VAX 4000 100A, I have a BA350 hooked up.  It F > > appears to have some sort of DSSI-to-SCSI adapter attached, and isL > > attached to the big multi-function connector on the back of the machine. >  > Is it a DWZZA-nn perhaps?   G Not sure.  Two DSSI connections, two what I think are QBUS connectors,  G something which looks like a small SCSI connector (but probably isn't)  0 and, underneath, a CENTRONICS-50 SCSI connector.  M > As long as you do not add another DSSI VAX on that bus you can use the same  > ALLOCLASS.  I OK.  I only have one DSSI machine, so I doubt I'll be adding any anytime   soon.   M > Perhaps the size? I can no longer remember the size of the largest RF disk, J > was it 2 GB? So if you put in a 4 GB RZ29 then the DIdriver probably gotK > somewhat suprised. If you do have a DWZZA then you might work around that / > problem by telling it to use DU device names.   I The SCSI drives are RZ28, i.e. 2 GB.  I'm pretty sure that, in the past,  > this cabinet had such drives in it and was used with this VAX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:51:03 -0500 " From: MikeWJ <mjenkins//mfire.com> Subject: Re: affordable VMS 8 Message-ID: <qd80ovcgh6sini6l0h9fjqrdf5fjffj683@4ax.com>  ; Hey Guys:  Listen up!  NO MARKET.  Period.  It ain't there.   M So why convince a CIO that it's cheaper/better/more efficient to use VMS when E all he sees is the dollar sign and the fact that it don't do windows?   N Even though he can't justify replacing his alphaserver with a ton of NT boxes.  M I still get strange looks when I ask for a replacement system that will allow A 2000-2500 concurrent users with 2000-2500 concurrent processes...    Mike Jenkins
 Consultant  $ "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   >David J. Dachtera wrote:  >> Bob Koehler wrote:  >>> A >>> In article <cf15391e.0309301152.2ca22f4c@posting.google.com>, 7 >>> keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  >>> 2 >>>> From the latest issue of the DSPP newsletter: >>>>E >>>> "New and Improved Equipment Program Benefits for DSPP Members in  >>>> North America >>>>C >>>> The DSPP Equipment Program is pleased to announce exciting new ) >>>> discounts and offerings for members:  >>>> ...F >>>>   o  OpenVMS I64 Itanium2 server bundle- Special pricing at under	 >>>> $5K"  >>> G >>>    Now that sounds official.  Good to hear, but is it a developer's " >>>    bundle, or just the server? >>= >> ...and will comparable pricing be available for end-users?  >># >> Remember: no market, no product.  >  >  > I >No quite......all they can build will wind up in a landfill someplace if  >they don't create a market. > 
 >Advertising. 
 >Advertising. 
 >Advertising.  >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Oct 2003 03:04 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)   Subject: RE: AMD64 sales figures, Message-ID: <5OCT200303044868@gerg.tamu.edu>  . "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes...) }On 4 Oct 2003 at 8:13, Tom Linden wrote: ; }> Stan, what is the equivalent Alpha to a 4.3 GHz Pentium?  }> (Running VMS, of course)  } A }I don't have any data at the moment.  Once I know, I'll let you   }know... }  }--Stan Quayle  ? There is one vital bit of information that gives you the answer > directly: there isn't a 4.3 GHz Pentium. Therefore there is no equivalent.   C The fastest Pentium is the Pentium 4EE (EE = Extreme Edition) which D is actually not quite out yet - a few samples were released early toF reviewers to spoil the Athlon64 release. The P4EE is clocked at 3.2GHzD just like the fastest non EE verion, but the EE is faster because itE is really a slightly modified Xeon with "P4" stamped on it instead of F "Xeon" - the main difference with the regular P4 being that is has 2MBE of L3 cache on chip, the difference between it and the normal Xeon is B that they upped the frontside bus to 200MHz (QDR, for an effectiveA 800MHz data rate - the fastest real Xeon frontside bus is at 533) D and they disabled a lot of the internal ECC in the chip (which couldC be a bad thing, although probably no worse than a normal P4) to get  it to run so fast.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:48:32 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: AMD64 sales figures9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEAMIDAA.tom@kednos.com>   @ Carl, you missed the point.  Take the speed as hypothetical then as the question.   >-----Original Message----- / >From: Carl Perkins [mailto:carl@gerg.tamu.edu] ' >Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 1:04 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: RE: AMD64 sales figures  >  > / >"Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes... * >}On 4 Oct 2003 at 8:13, Tom Linden wrote:< >}> Stan, what is the equivalent Alpha to a 4.3 GHz Pentium? >}> (Running VMS, of course) >}  B >}I don't have any data at the moment.  Once I know, I'll let you 	 >}know...  >}   >}--Stan Quayle  > @ >There is one vital bit of information that gives you the answer? >directly: there isn't a 4.3 GHz Pentium. Therefore there is no 
 >equivalent.   > D >The fastest Pentium is the Pentium 4EE (EE = Extreme Edition) whichE >is actually not quite out yet - a few samples were released early to G >reviewers to spoil the Athlon64 release. The P4EE is clocked at 3.2GHz E >just like the fastest non EE verion, but the EE is faster because it F >is really a slightly modified Xeon with "P4" stamped on it instead ofG >"Xeon" - the main difference with the regular P4 being that is has 2MB F >of L3 cache on chip, the difference between it and the normal Xeon isC >that they upped the frontside bus to 200MHz (QDR, for an effective B >800MHz data rate - the fastest real Xeon frontside bus is at 533)E >and they disabled a lot of the internal ECC in the chip (which could D >be a bad thing, although probably no worse than a normal P4) to get >it to run so fast.  > 	 >--- Carl  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:19:53 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>  Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures. Message-ID: <3F7FF049.26315.DEC6D08@localhost>  + On 4 Oct 2003 at 22:13, Lord Isildur wrote: E > Digital UNIX (OSF1) and FreeBSD do not run on VAX. Ultrix was DEC's C > unix for VAX, and NetBSD and OpenBSD run on VAX, but not FreeBSD.   @ I stand corrected.  The point is that CHARON-VAX will run these  operating systems as well.  B I've also run Linux/VAX on CHARON-VAX, although it's been quite a  while since I've tried it.  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 02:14:19 -0500% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> < Subject: Re: Another huge bug: DECwindows MAIL: include file6 Message-ID: <VsPfb.7999$%C5.695@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  3 David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3F7F98BB.4030701@tsoft-inc.com... > Mike Naime wrote:  >    SNIP...    >  >  > Opps, pot and kettle!   G Hey, I never "claimed" to be a VMS expert, or asked for Engineers to be J flogged (Smileys or not)   I'm still learning.  And I will admit that I amK still learning.  I've learned more about VMS in the last three years than I I did in the first 10.  I'm primarily a hardware guy.  OS Internals are not H one of my strong points, and probably never will be.  I can at least seeL that a BUG is not a BUG if it's part of how the operating system is supposed) to function.  We both agree on that part.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:15:41 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>< Subject: Re: Another huge bug: DECwindows MAIL: include file0 Message-ID: <3F7FFD5D.5F8DB7EF@sture.homeip.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > K > Ok, I seem to be finding bugs in VMS at a faster rate that people produce  > viruses for Microsoft :-)  > I > VAX VMS 7.2. In DECwindows MAIL, while composing a message, if I try to P > include a VMS file (FILE ->INCLUDE FILE),  I am not allowed to include a fullyA > readable log file from an executing job because it is locked...  > M > So I must open a decterm windown, type the log file, then cut and paste the - > contents into the decwindows mail edit box.  > P > Why would decwindows mail try to open the file with exclusive access (probably$ > write) just to read its contents ? >    Why not do TYPE/OUT=filename?    Or EDIT/TPU for that matter.     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:18:31 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>< Subject: Re: Another huge bug: DECwindows MAIL: include file0 Message-ID: <3F7FFE07.4F3C52FC@sture.homeip.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  >    <snip>  M > my complaint still stands: DECW$MAIL should open files for include with the 0 > right flags to enable it to include log files.  , In that case, can we also have that for EDT?   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:50:25 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> < Subject: Re: Another huge bug: DECwindows MAIL: include file/ Message-ID: <vnvqb125ko702d@corp.supernews.com>   + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote: M : So I must open a decterm windown, type the log file, then cut and paste the - : contents into the decwindows mail edit box.   = Or you may be able to $ BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK file newfile.    And then include newfile.   ; Not a perfect solution, but much better than cut and paste.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 09:08:36 +0200B From: " INFORMENTOR AB" <informentor.se-nd-sp-am-he-re@swipnet.se>' Subject: Re: Cable for RAID Array 310 ? 4 Message-ID: <MrPfb.4021$d1.2221@nntpserver.swip.net>   "Jan-Erik Sderholm" wrote:  > INFORMENTOR AB wrote:  > > H > > I suppose it's the KZPBA-CB diff SCSI-adapter? [KZPBA-CA (CX) is SE] >   > It sounds like that card, yes.- There are other older adapters too (KZPSA...)  > , > > IIRC KZPBA is software terminated ?? ok?- > In what software ? from the console (>>>) ?   @ Yes... run AlphaBios &  configdiskette setting the eeprom flags.J However, I think (don't have the manuals) that the factory settings should, be, by default, set in autotermination mode.  C > > Correct termination in both ends?  Check HSZ20 jumper settings?  > 9 IIRC it has an additional diff & SE selection jumper to..   0 > I belive all shold be OK with the terminators. > Just "out of the box".   > Jan-Erik.    Regards  Bo HermansonA PS. Om du vill testa kan jag skicka dig en uppsttning Y-kablar & F terminatorer. Maila mig isfall din address s skall jag ordna det. DS   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Oct 2003 09:07:08 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) E Subject: Re: HP lures Solaris users with Linux (was: Sun takes a hit) 3 Message-ID: <tFNB7K4WI3nG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3F7FF321.64F09CCE@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:   B >> Friday morning, Hewlett Packard announced that it would pay Sun? >> customers $25,000 to switch to HP computers running Linux OS 
 >> freeware."  > B > But this is something I don't get. Why is HP pushing Linux as anH > alternative to Solaris rather than HP-UX, or even, heaven forbid, VMS? > A > Why not give those away and go for the software maintenance and  > consulting revenue?   _ http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=74&ncid=738&e=9&u=/cmp/20031004/tc_cmp/15201274   7 	Jamie Gruener at the Yankee Group thinks the payout is 5 	an aggressive move by HP to convert more Sun Solaris 4 	customers to Linux. For many vendors, Gruener says,8 	Linux is becoming neutral territory in which to attract< 	new customers. "Customers must decide if Solaris is still a7 	better platform for their needs," Gruener says. "Linux 8 	doesn't yet do all that Solaris can, but some customers, 	don't need all Solaris' features, either."    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 04:00:20 -07006 From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>. Subject: Re: Info on Known VMS Exploits/Cracks6 Message-ID: <200310051100.h95B0Kri025490@www.aarg.net>  8 On 29 Sep 2003, jnez367@yahoo.com (Jerry Nezlick) wrote:6 >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message& >news:<3F7633EB.710A4078@istop.com>... >> Andy Bustamante wrote:  >> >  I >> > Do you have more than one network card?  If so check that no one has  >> > enabledM >> > IP forwarding, allowing your system to act as a router between different  >> > LAN >> > segments. >>  M >> If that were the case, would a "netstat" or a "tcpip show dev" provide any O >> indication of connections that are being routed by that VMS node but did not ) >> originate nor terminate on that node ?  > F >Most of the outgoing connections are to addresses in Asia.  Found twoD >more today.  I know client ports are usually ramdomly assigned, butC >the client port is usually 51225 for my server.  I have scanned my F >server with a port scanner, but I do not find anything unusual open. E >It seems like something is poping these connections open and closing  >them. > F >We use Multinet.  I have looked at the open sockets and the processes= >that own them.  I do not see anything that I cannot explain.    Two areas to look at...    Do you use SSH?   N Do you have anonymous FTP enabled, or any other guest-type accounts that might be used for forwarding?      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [PGP Key via finger]     http://openvms-rocks.com     http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 08:40:06 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! 0 Message-ID: <3F7FD8E6.5A45E4F6@sture.homeip.net>   deadl!nk wrote:  > Z > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A26C9A.6A2BC1DB@SendSpamHere.ORG>...o > > In article <dac6f860.0310021123.73ff0e29@posting.google.com>, sandra@bluebirds-mad.co.uk (deadl!nk) writes:  > > {...snip...}+ > > >You have got to be fucking kidding me!  > > E > > Grow up.  This stupid thread was started by some troll looking to 4 > > evoke the virulent rhetoric of the likes of you. > 
 > probibli; > but that doesn't stop him, or you from being cock suckers  >    Grow up and get a life.    > >  > > D > > >VMS is an obsolete steaming pile of shit! It only worked on oneJ > > >hardware platform, and had plenty of problems of it's own. Windows isI > > >a steaming pile of shit too, but at least it's not VMS. I think even I > > >the fucking Wintrolls should be fucking flaming you on that one, you  > > >poor old pathetic VMtroll.  > > C > > Your allusive "facts" about VMS are wrong.  VMS runs on several B > > platforms -- not just on VAX as you would have others believe. > 9 > get a life. this is not the place to be advocating vMs.   3 Look at your headers and see where you are posting,   F But thanks anyway. Any time in the future that I wish to bid against aF Linux competitor, I will take great joy in quoting your post, with the
 punchline:  B "Can your company afford to be reliant on a foul mouth like this?"  
 Merci vielmal    __   Achmed L-L-Langstrasse dry ice foonf    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Oct 2003 17:42:47 +1000 , From: "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam@rainx.cjb.net>' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! A Message-ID: <NLAg4WLhPncpF4016E79oy8dByV1631B@ns.1streporter.com>    Paul Sture wrote:  > deadl!nk wrote:   : >> get a life. this is not the place to be advocating vMs. > 5 > Look at your headers and see where you are posting,  > H > But thanks anyway. Any time in the future that I wish to bid against aH > Linux competitor, I will take great joy in quoting your post, with the > punchline: > D > "Can your company afford to be reliant on a foul mouth like this?"  	 Try this:   I "Can your company afford to be reliant on a foul mouthed, illiterate oaf,  like that one?"    --  @ Kadaitcha Man: Kicking fuckwits in the head on Usenet since 19891                http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/ %                Linux makes you stupid    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Oct 2003 03:25:31 -0700 ! From: d2003xx@yahoo.com (d2003xx) ' Subject: Re: Read this and weap, twats! = Message-ID: <7250bd38.0310050225.6a13cb5f@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F7C913A.8CD8C656@istop.com>...  > "deadl!nk" wrote: C > > VMS is an obsolete steaming pile of shit! It only worked on one > > > hardware platform, and had plenty of problems of it's own. > L > Just for the record, VMS works on VAX, Alpha, and through emulators, 32bitJ > Intel 8086 systems. It is being ported to the unwanted IA64 thing due toX > politics and hopefully will be ported to a real chip once HP admits IA64 is a mistake. > L > VMS is state of the art in terms of clustering, disaster tolerance. It hasL > both a character cell and X gui interface. It has TCPIP stack, web serversP > etc. It has solid security. So the word "obsolete" doesn't really apply to it.O > Both Unix and Windows are struggling to catch up to VMS for system stability, O > clustering etc. (and in the case of windows, Digital had even donated much of O > VMS intellectual property to Microsoft but the later failed to implement it).  > D > The problem with VMS isn't technical, it is its lack of marketing.  3 So... It will still die out soon, just like OS/2 :D    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:20:01 +0200( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>! Subject: Re: SHOW DEVICE/FULL DSA 9 Message-ID: <blp5tj$emk3k$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   F "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> schreef in bericht" news:blnhhd$pba$1@pcls4.std.com..., > "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes: > L > >shadow sets must (still) contain identical devices so AFAIK the DS deviceF > >can inherit the device type from its members. This is what I see on AXP/VMS  > >7.3 (no patches): > E > No, the requirement for identical drives was dropped long ago.  The D > current requirement is that device MAXBLOCKS must be the same, but" > even this will change real soon. > L > I believe if you create a shadowset of dissimilar members the DSAx: deviceG > type will be of one of the members (either the 'first' or at random).  >  > --   > -Mike  On AXP/VMS 7.3:    $ ini/sys dka100 user8$ $ mou/sys dsa2:/shad=$8$dka100 user8) %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, USER8 mounted on _DSA2: K %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMFAIL, _$8$DKA100: (ERBIUM) failed as a member of the shadow  set 3 -SYSTEM-F-INCSHAMEM, incompatible shadow set member C %MOUNT-I-ISAMBR, _$8$DKA400: (ERBIUM) is a member of the shadow set  $ 5 $ pipe sho dev ds/full | sear sys$pipe "total blocks" 9     Total blocks            17774160    Sectors per track  329     Total blocks             4110480    Sectors per track  869     Total blocks             2055035    Sectors per track  108  $ L The devices listed in the PIPE command are DSA0, DSA1 and DSA2. $8$DKA100 is a 9 GB disk.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 10:32:01 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit0 Message-ID: <3F7FF321.64F09CCE@sture.homeip.net>   Keith Parris wrote:  > h > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<POztxxIPltF8@eisner.encompasserve.org>...8 > >       It isn't starting to set, it has been setting. > = > TheStreet.com says It's been a very, very bad week for Sun. > > http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/tech/kcswanson/10117341.html > 2 > Motley Fool says it's been Sun's Nightmare Week.n > http://www.fool.com/news/mft/2003/mft03100317.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y&bounce=y&bounce2=y > A > "On Monday, the computer maker issued an earnings warning while G > tacking on a $1.05 billion charge to last quarter. Yesterday, Merrill B > Lynch analyst Steve Milunovich sent a hostile open letter to theB > company's board stating that 'Sun faces a crisis.' And now this:A > Friday morning, Hewlett Packard announced that it would pay Sun > > customers $25,000 to switch to HP computers running Linux OS > freeware."  @ But this is something I don't get. Why is HP pushing Linux as anF alternative to Solaris rather than HP-UX, or even, heaven forbid, VMS?  ? Why not give those away and go for the software maintenance and  consulting revenue?    ????????  2 It all sounds like dot com boom economics to me...  G Come on Keith, we know you aren't daft. Please explain the economics of 	 this one.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Oct 2003 06:59:06 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit3 Message-ID: <nrOR18YxqDeJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3F7FF321.64F09CCE@sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:   4 > It all sounds like dot com boom economics to me... > I > Come on Keith, we know you aren't daft. Please explain the economics of  > this one.   D On non-technical posts, I am under the impression that Keith is justD making us aware of material from others that he learns about.  KeithD can speak authoritatively about technical details of VMS, but on the> economics questions you ask he is not operating those circles.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:07:53 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL/ Message-ID: <3F7FDF68.96D5593@sture.homeip.net>    Joseph Huber wrote:  > Y > In article <blh1bv$s79$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: J > > So, I have a 1024/128 in my office and a 512/128 at home. What you areJ > > saying is that I've better download from home to my office that upload > > from home, right? # > > Hence the following speed flow: J > > iMac -- 100 Mbit/s -- Modem ADSL -- 128 Kbit/s -- ISP1 -- the internetG > > -- ?? MB/s -- ISP2 -- 1024 Kbit/s -- Modem ADSL -- 100 Mbit/s -- PC  > J > Since the sending speed on both sides is 128Kbs, it doesn't matter whichM > side is FTP client or server. It would matter if e.g. the office side would ( > have a high speed internet connection.N > So Your 17 KBytes/s is probably the maximum You can get from a 128 kbs line. >   G I agree. When I was using ISDN (rated at 64Kb per connection), the most D I remember getting was about 7 KB on a single line, and 14 KB with 2 lines.     --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:12:28 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>2 Subject: Re: Transfer speed over Ethernet and ADSL0 Message-ID: <3F7FE07C.565269D0@sture.homeip.net>   Didier Morandi wrote:  > I > well, my download runs since two days and WSFTP sez "average rate: 16".  >  > D. >  > Keith A. Lewis wrote:  > x > > huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) writes in article <bkQF7OjVk1VK@vms.mppmu.mpg.de> dated 2 Oct 2003 15:58:12 +0200: > > P > >>So Your 17 KBytes/s is probably the maximum You can get from a 128 kbs line. > >  > > N > > Actually 128 kbps = 16 kB/s.  If he's getting 17 while paying for 16, he'd > > better not complain!  ( Want me to burn some CDs for you Didier?7 Or have an account on my system, with better bandwidth?   - (Offer restricted to Didier, 'cos I know him)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 03:34:20 -07006 From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>" Subject: Re: VMS system on the web6 Message-ID: <200310051034.h95AYKaw023185@www.aarg.net>  H On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, "Ken Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com> wrote:  >Deathrow Public OpenVMS Cluster >http://deathrow.vistech.net/   H Accessing Deathrow and getting your own account is as simple as making aM telnet connection and providing an email address for your password to be sent J to.  There's a wide range of compilers available, all we're missing is CMSM which I'd expect to be a prerequisite for teaching people about developing in M a "real" environment.  You can expect that after the upgrade to 7.3.  There's L also an active Notes community where you can ask for help from a fair numberB of experienced VMS people.  We even have some old games, including0 multi-player stuff available on the VAX, MANSON.  M Over 5000 accounts have been issued for the system although many of these are N lapsed and a cleanup with a limit of activity in the last 120 days has reduced& the number of accounts to around 1000.  H We already have several students who've used the system to see somethingM different.  Yes, they're in the 2-3% Bill Gunshannon mentions as having IT as L a hobby as well as a planned career. Many of them would happily pester theirI educational institutions to run part of the course on VMS, if there was a  workable programme.   N I've seen some of the material relating to the new .edu programme mentioned byJ John Smith, but I've not heard anything about any uptake on this - despiteM free/loan hardware being offered.  If, as Bill suggests, they'd just simplify N things and add an appropriate clause to the Hobbyist license I'm sure we couldM expect to see a few more schools running VMS clusters.  Many of them probably6> have some of the hardware lying in a storeroom gathering dust.     Doc. -- tK OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.sK [PGP Key via finger]     http://openvms-rocks.com     http://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:09:41 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)S Subject: worries about files opened by audit server and security server on shutdownL$ Message-ID: <blpc7l$h28$1@online.de>  H Since moving cluster-common files to a non-system disk, I encounter the I following problem when trying to remove a node from the cluster: 6 files nH are open on this disk.  Two are opened by the SMISERVER, and I can just G kill this process.  However, the others are opened by the audit server u9 and security server, and these objects cannot be deleted.o  H Of course, it is possible to shutdown the system, but this doesn't seem  a very clean way to do it.  D On a related note, I could avoid a shadow merge when booting a node I hosting a member of the shadow set if I dismount the whole shadow set on uA all nodes first.  However, that can't be done due to the problem v described above.  E I have put the cluster-common files on DISK$USER, since a) that is a  E shadow set hosted by 2 nodes and thus almost always available and b) oF DISK$USER in some sense provides the "identity" of the cluster, so it G seems logical to put these files there.  However, if the above problem sF means I always have to have a shadow merge when rebooting a node, and I can't even avoid it by dismounting DISK$USER on all nodes (actually, not uI something I want to do, since even without the cluster-common files this E@ should be available as much as possible), is the Thing To Do to B relocated these cluster-common files on another disk, ideally one F holding just these files (to keep the unavoidable shadow merge quick)?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:35:52 GMTo" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGW Subject: Re: worries about files opened by audit server and security server on shutdown 0 Message-ID: <00A26EBD.508E9EAB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <blpc7l$h28$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: I >Since moving cluster-common files to a non-system disk, I encounter the  J >following problem when trying to remove a node from the cluster: 6 files I >are open on this disk.  Two are opened by the SMISERVER, and I can just rH >kill this process.  However, the others are opened by the audit server : >and security server, and these objects cannot be deleted.   Will these help?   $ SET AUDIT/SERVER=EXITe $ SET SERVER SECURITY/EXIT     --  L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            u5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" t   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Oct 2003 12:26:20 -0500o- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)SW Subject: Re: worries about files opened by audit server and security server on shutdownZ3 Message-ID: <C0M3HNDEQqWg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <blpc7l$h28$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:-  J > Since moving cluster-common files to a non-system disk, I encounter the K > following problem when trying to remove a node from the cluster: 6 files bJ > are open on this disk.  Two are opened by the SMISERVER, and I can just I > kill this process.  However, the others are opened by the audit server l; > and security server, and these objects cannot be deleted.c   $ HELP SET AUDIT/SERVERx $ HELP SET SERVER/EXIT  J > Of course, it is possible to shutdown the system, but this doesn't seem  > a very clean way to do it.  C The audit server and security server are pretty good about flushinga updated information to disk.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:56:56 +0200c* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>Y Subject: Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, Markn/ Message-ID: <3F7FEAE8.4349DC9@sture.homeip.net>.   John Smith wrote:   
 <big snip>  L > But the company, which has been moving to settle anti-trust claims that itN > abused its monopoly on PC software, has been seen as shielded from liabilityJ > claims by disclaimers contained in the licenses that users must agree to1 > when installing software, according to experts.o  E This was the paragraph that struck me most. During the onslaught that E was SWEN, I got 100MB+ of junk within the first 48 hours, and similarsF levels for the next few days. It didn't cost me in tangible terms suchG as a phone bill, but I could have spent my time far better, and chargeda0 for it, so in real terms it _did_ cost me money.  A On a VMS system. No Windows style license disclaimers applicable.   F But on that subject, I really have to wonder about the legality of theC Win98 license agreement I came across a few years ago. This was the F German version. Loads of legalese in German, but followed by some veryG nasty crap, all in English and block capitals to boot. I gladly skippedcC across that, thinking that if it really came to the crunch, a localrG court would have to accept that English ain't an official language hereaG (4 languages, yes, but English is not one of them, even though many areaF perfectly competent in it). OK, I have English, but I found it totallyH out of order that, say, the couple who live next door should be expectedB to accept a load of legalese in a language they do not understand.  F Living in a bilingual country yourself, you undoubtedly understand the
 problem well.u   -- h
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:35:54 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>iY Subject: Re: You'd think that HP would let people know about VMS. How about it Rich, MarkeK Message-ID: <KeUfb.230924$Lnr1.199182@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>C   Paul Sture wrote:K > John Smith wrote:  >n > <big snip> > E >> But the company, which has been moving to settle anti-trust claims:? >> that it abused its monopoly on PC software, has been seen asrA >> shielded from liability claims by disclaimers contained in them> >> licenses that users must agree to when installing software, >> according to experts. > G > This was the paragraph that struck me most. During the onslaught that G > was SWEN, I got 100MB+ of junk within the first 48 hours, and similareH > levels for the next few days. It didn't cost me in tangible terms suchA > as a phone bill, but I could have spent my time far better, and-: > charged for it, so in real terms it _did_ cost me money. >bC > On a VMS system. No Windows style license disclaimers applicable.) >uH > But on that subject, I really have to wonder about the legality of theE > Win98 license agreement I came across a few years ago. This was thelH > German version. Loads of legalese in German, but followed by some veryA > nasty crap, all in English and block capitals to boot. I gladlySG > skipped across that, thinking that if it really came to the crunch, anA > local court would have to accept that English ain't an officialaG > language here (4 languages, yes, but English is not one of them, eventG > though many are perfectly competent in it). OK, I have English, but IsC > found it totally out of order that, say, the couple who live next D > door should be expected to accept a load of legalese in a language > they do not understand.  >eH > Living in a bilingual country yourself, you undoubtedly understand the > problem well.      Interesting point.  K Defacto global currency is USD, but in each country the de jure currency ishE another matter. In some countries people and businesses accept USD asZL settlement payment for debts and transactions as a matter of personal choice= and courtesy but they are under no legal obligation to do so.   D You may be bound by the Berne Convention on copyright  to not breachL copyright but on the matter of whether you would be in breach of any licenceJ agreement, I suspect that you are correct - local court would probably not5 allow MS to strong-arm you should you be 'in breach'.o    H Here's where I come back to the subject line ofthe original post in this@ thread - with cr*p like Microsoft's propensity to virus and wormJ vulnerability it behooves HP to begin to aggressively advertise and marketG VMS (not that they shouldn't have done this long ago) . A good startingNJ place would be to their own Proliant/Netserver customer base - "Pssst. HeyI Buddy! Fed up with all the time and money you're spending on dealing withsI all the Microsoft fixes you install each day...... Have we got a solution  for you - VMS."e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.552 ************************