1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 09 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 560       Contents: Advertising in HP , Re: Authorize suggestion: sys$system default, Re: Authorize suggestion: sys$system default, Re: Authorize suggestion: sys$system default Automated POP Client?  Re: Automated POP Client?  Re: Automated POP Client?  Re: Automated POP Client? 8 Do/did you use Rockwell drivers to pilot CNC from a VAX?< Re: Do/did you use Rockwell drivers to pilot CNC from a VAX? Fw: how to start DECevent  Re: Group members in VMS Re: Group members in VMS/ Re: HGFTP - how to troubleshoot data connection  Re: how to start DECevent  Re: how to start DECevent  Re: how to start DECevent / Re: http_server / quotas / decnet task creation / Re: http_server / quotas / decnet task creation ! Re: Idle Telnet Sessions Dropping " Re: Job Scheduler - cross platform" Re: Job Scheduler - cross platform	 News Test  Re: ODBTP on VMS ? Re: OT: Another microsoft virus   Re: Problem with SWCC_CONFIG.com  Re: Problem with SWCC_CONFIG.com  Re: Problem with SWCC_CONFIG.com' Re: Simple question : foum DCL -> ici ? # SKHPC's view on the port to Itanium  Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: Sun takes a hit  Re: Sun takes a hit ( Re: SUN to release a new chip technology Re: swxcrmgr RE: swxcrmgr Re: swxcrmgr TSM on Alpha Re: TSM on Alpha Re: TSM on Alpha Re: TSM on Alpha Re: TSM on Alpha% Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:53:14 -0400& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com> Subject: Advertising in HP/ Message-ID: <voammsea80vs4d@news.supernews.com>   H In "People" Ragazine yesterday (I don't read it honestly) there is a  20$ page Ad for HP Printers and Cameras.  ' I repeat 20 page Ad, yes, a 20 page Ad.   8 Yep... shows where HP's concentrating don't you think???  . It must have cost tens of millions of dollars.E I think HP is more worried about losing printer business to DELL than  pushing their REAL systems.      DT   --   David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 06:30:54 GMT 0 From: HARANGOZO CSABA   <spameater@spam.invalid>5 Subject: Re: Authorize suggestion: sys$system default 7 Message-ID: <yg7hb.5572$d6.233117@nasal.pacific.net.au>   + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  > C > It is very annoying to have to CD SYS$SYSTEM before MC AUTHORIZE.   > 	Another solution ( which I use ) is to download an UDK ( User8 	Defined Key ) sequence into your keyboard. I just press@ 	Shift/F6 ( or CTRL/F6 on some systems, depending on keyboards )C 	and it executes for me a "SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM" and "MCR AUTHORIZE".   @ 	Any key you can define, and more than one ( I start NCP, etc. )@ 	this way. Or other frequently used commands which then can then@ 	be activated with just pressing buttons. Command files could be 	started, and so on... 	VMS... beautiful... 							Cheers,  Csaba   J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:   #  Rhode's Corollary to Hoare's Law : A   Inside every complex and unworkable program is a useful routine  	   struggling to be free.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 02:45:24 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>5 Subject: Re: Authorize suggestion: sys$system default 4 Message-ID: <1031009023423.403A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  % On 8 Oct 2003, Larry Kilgallen wrote:   s > In article <BuRpofbkYOBE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > H > >    I always assumed it was heritage from the days when AUTHORIZE wasE > >    written without the benefit of RMS.  I recall having to decide J > >    whether RMS should be installed, sharable, when setting up VMS 2.x.G > >    Someone once told me AUTHORIZE was written prior to RMS; I guess E > >    someone in VMS Engineering wanted to log into 0.x to test RMS.  > E > VMS V1 had Authorize, but not Indexed Files.  One prominent (to VMS F > Developers) Field Test site was an academic site (lots of usernames)G > run by Doug WILSON.  He was quite clear that sequential scan when one H > logged in to find the username in alphabetic order was not acceptable.  I IIRC, it was worse than that.  I think all the user names were "F"+number G for students in the fall term and "S"+number for students in the spring B term.  At the end of each semester, they had to delete all the oldD accounts and create new ones for all the students.  So even when theC UAF became in indexed file (V2.0?), it still had to search enormous F split bucket chains.  Also, ISTR that the old RMS-11 RMSCNV and RMSIFLD utilities couldn't handle SYSUAF.DAT for some reason, and the nativeF mode CONVERT utility didn't exist yet, so they couldn't easily rebuild the UAF after loading it.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 01:01:08 -0700 % From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) 5 Subject: Re: Authorize suggestion: sys$system default = Message-ID: <a98cd882.0310082306.3c6eab70@posting.google.com>   A Although I agree with Hoff, I really would like to make one small 1 change to Hoff's example. I would like to change:   9 $       If F$TrnLnm("SYSUAF","LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE") .eqs. ""    in:   3 $       If F$TrnLnm("SYSUAF","LNM$SYSTEM") .eqs. ""   8 This will allow for a cluster wide definition of SYSUAF.   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn     ] hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<4w_gb.6641$n%2.2428@news.cpqcorp.net>... U > In article <00A27121.FBE99285@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: Y > :In article <3F8437DF.9C21107C@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: Q > :>Is there a reason that AUTHORIZE doesn't default to SYS$SYSTEM when it triues  > :>to open SYSUAF.DAT ? > G >   AUTHORIZE typically expects system disks will have the core logical E >   names, and when these are present then AUTHORIZE works just fine.  > H >   If the current behaviour bugs you, you can define the core logicals E >   (SYSUAF, RIGHTSLIST, NETPROXY, NET$PROXY) to point to the default E >   file locations and AUTHORIZE will then work just fine -- for some E >   systems I have these defined system-wide, and for others I define E >   these in the LOGIN.COM.   I then also set up a UAF :== $AUTHORIZE  >   symbol.  > C >   Here's some LOGIN.COM code that handles more than you probably   >   cared about: > 2 > $       DEFLOG := Define/Table=LNM$PROCESS/NoLog; > $       If F$TrnLnm("SYSUAF","LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE") .eqs. ""  > $       Then? > $         DEFLOG        SYSUAF          Sys$System:SYSUAF.DAT ? > $         DEFLOG        NETUAF          Sys$System:NETUAF.DAT A > $         DEFLOG        NETPROXY        Sys$System:NETPROXY.DAT B > $         DEFLOG        NET$PROXY       Sys$System:NET$PROXY.DATC > $         DEFLOG        RIGHTSLIST      Sys$System:RIGHTSLIST.DAT  > $       EndIf  > ..  > $       UAF     :== $AUTHORIZE > ? >   Accordingly, I haven't even considered this issue in years.  > G >   I'm not certain we could particularly change this current behaviour E >   of AUTHORIZE without breaking layered products, ISV applications,  >   and/or customer code.  >  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:04:44 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> Subject: Automated POP Client?2 Message-ID: <bm31ag$jvm$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>  I I need an automated/programmable POP client to retrieve my Internet mail  9 on my Alpha and do some pre-processing before reading it.   	 Any idea?  Thanks,    D. --  - Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros                      Tout VMS.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 08:17:13 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")" Subject: Re: Automated POP Client?6 Message-ID: <00A2718B.88D41D6E@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  W In article <bm31ag$jvm$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: J >I need an automated/programmable POP client to retrieve my Internet mail : >on my Alpha and do some pre-processing before reading it. > 
 >Any idea?  : Use Perl.  You can use, eg, MAIL::POP3Client, described at  ; http://search.cpan.org/~sdowd/POP3Client-2.13/POP3Client.pm   M (This takes care of all the POP3 business; then you write your pre-processing ' stuff in Perl, and you're in business.)    -- Alan  --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:18:44 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>" Subject: Re: Automated POP Client?2 Message-ID: <bm395p$g19$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>  
 Excellent./ But... did someone write the same stuff in DCL?  :-)    D.  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  Y > In article <bm31ag$jvm$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:  > K >>I need an automated/programmable POP client to retrieve my Internet mail  ; >>on my Alpha and do some pre-processing before reading it.  >> >>Any idea?  >  > < > Use Perl.  You can use, eg, MAIL::POP3Client, described at > = > http://search.cpan.org/~sdowd/POP3Client-2.13/POP3Client.pm  > O > (This takes care of all the POP3 business; then you write your pre-processing ) > stuff in Perl, and you're in business.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 17:40:35 +0800 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> " Subject: Re: Automated POP Client?* Message-ID: <3F852D13.4090003@bigpond.com>   Didier Morandi wrote: K > I need an automated/programmable POP client to retrieve my Internet mail  ; > on my Alpha and do some pre-processing before reading it.  >  > Any idea? 	 > Thanks,  >  > D.  ? There is a Kermit script (on the Kermit site) that can download ; your mail for you - I have used it and it worked very well.    Regards, Dave.  --  I David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.com I Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 13:06:33 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>A Subject: Do/did you use Rockwell drivers to pilot CNC from a VAX? 2 Message-ID: <bm3fft$bju$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>   Hello there happy tax payers,   B Congrats to the Californian US citizens who have won a Terminator!  > I'm writing (as some of you know) the last lines of a monthly F newslettrer on the VAX/VMS to Itanium migration issue to be published E today or tomorrow (see http://www.didiermorandi.com/index_us.htm for  + more), and I just discovered a new problem.   G Looks like there are a bunch of you who are still driving Rockwell CNC  C machines from VAX systems via Rockwell specific software (actually  C Allen-Bradley SW) such like the Interchange(TM) product (we have a  E Customer here in France who has more than a hundred VAX running that   software over here...).   F I heard that Interchange (last version is 6.2 for OpenVMS 7.1 VAX and 7 Alpha, June 1999) will not be ported to VMS on Itanium.    So, my usual questions:   1 Are there any VAX/VMS/Rockwell users around here? # If YES, did you address this issue? # If YES, what were your conclusions?   + If you wish to email your answer, click <a  ' mailto:didier.morandi@free.fr>here</a>.   E I will close the VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Letter this evening at  	 0:0.0 CET   + Thank you for supporting the VAX Community.    D. --  - Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros +       Business Partner ~ Revendeur agr HP .   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:07:58 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>E Subject: Re: Do/did you use Rockwell drivers to pilot CNC from a VAX? 2 Message-ID: <bm3mji$nao$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>   Didier Morandi wrote:   H > I heard that Interchange (last version is 6.2 for OpenVMS 7.1 VAX and 9 > Alpha, June 1999) will not be ported to VMS on Itanium.   ( Just found that: http://tinyurl.com/qb3u  4 Other HP OpenVMS Products Not Moving to OpenVMS IA64  ' Product/Platform/Comment or Alternative ' ======= ======== ====================== G Allen-Bradley Data Highway (DAS)/VAX, Alpha/The replacement product is   BASEstar Open DAS.D Allen-Bradley INTERCHANGE DAS/VAX, Alpha/The replacement product is  BASEstar Open DAS.   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:01:10 -0500( From: "Jenny Butler" <jbutler@utmem.edu>" Subject: Fw: how to start DECevent3 Message-ID: <006d01c38e7e$8ee32460$1806c084@JennyB>   1  Bob,  Ftp into ftp.support.compaq.com and cd to:   ,     /private/svctools/deceventV34/ovms-alpha  8  I just checked and the savesets are there - A through D  and named DIAA034A.EXE, etc.                   Jenny > ----- Original Message -----  8 > From: "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD> > To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> * > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:34 AM$ > Subject: Re: how to start DECevent >  > L > > Now that they've scrambled the FTP site, can someone point me to where I > can J > > FTP DECevent 3.4 Alpha VMS directly to my VMS system? It used to be atH > > ftp.support.compaq.com/svctools but that directory no longer exists. > >  > > 4 > > Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"( > > >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< > > Kaplow Klips & Baffle:6 > http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfA > >     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org 
 > www.nar.org  > > & > >  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!, > http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html > >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 07:21:20 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org! Subject: Re: Group members in VMS 3 Message-ID: <pRp1a0nMuY7e@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <8a3b834.0310082120.6114c9c3@posting.google.com>, bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede) writes:* > Thank you guys for your instant replies.F > I forgot to mention that I would like to programatically find it out > i.e., through a 'C' code.   F There are only 2 supported interfaces into the authorization database:> The AUTHORIZE utility and the $GETUAI/$SETUAI system services.  E $GETUAI and $SETUAI do not support wildcards.  The latent support for E wildcards was removed back in VMS 4.4/4.5 with the mandatory security D patch if I recall correctly.  I think support for access mode checksG on RMS file activity has since been strengthened so that the underlying E security issue no longer applies, but I don't recall wildcard support F ever having been re-enabled.  (It's been a long time and I'm no longer9 clear on whether it was full wildcard support or merely a B keep-the-file-open performance optimization.  I don't think it was ever documented well).  - There is also an unsupported interface:  RMS.   D The SYSUAF.DAT file is an ordinary RMS indexed file.  And it has UICD as a secondary key.  So, given a record definition and access rightsA to the file, it is fairly straightforward to write a C program to ? read the file and access all records in a particular UIC group.   C Be careful of your file sharing.  You don't want to lock people out * of the system while you're reading SYSUAF.  E Record definitions should be in SYS$LIBRARY:LIB.MLB as module UAFDEF. ? You can determine the key structure by, if nothing else, making 7 a copy of SYSUAF.DAT and doing ANALYZE/RMS on the copy.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 07:52:50 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org! Subject: Re: Group members in VMS 3 Message-ID: <qmmetm6ZhM2W@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <pRp1a0nMuY7e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:n > In article <8a3b834.0310082120.6114c9c3@posting.google.com>, bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede) writes:+ >> Thank you guys for your instant replies. G >> I forgot to mention that I would like to programatically find it out  >> i.e., through a 'C' code. > H > There are only 2 supported interfaces into the authorization database:@ > The AUTHORIZE utility and the $GETUAI/$SETUAI system services.  D Ooops.  Forgot to count LOGINOUT and $ SET PASSWORD.  And if we lump> in the RIGHTSLIST.DAT along with SYSUAF.DAT, you need to countA $ASCTOID and $IDTOASC.  That last could actually solve the stated D problem -- if you're willing to live with a sequential scan of 65535? possible UICs and the possibility that RIGHTSLIST.DAT might not  match SYSUAF.DAT perfectly.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:36:13 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>8 Subject: Re: HGFTP - how to troubleshoot data connection< Message-ID: <18ghb.9019$o_5.5257@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>  J I would venture that NAT on the outgoing data connection is not preservingG port 20. If this is for a home network I'd recommend on of the internet K gateways (SMC, Netgear, Linksys, 3Comm . . .).  Or you can download a patch L for your system from www.redhat.com.  I run Linux on an older AMD for my DSL gateway.     -- Andy Bustamante  remove the ASCII 95s to reply     5 "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> wrote in message $ news:q4Kgb.6619$Sg4.4524@edtnps84... > [Hobbyist alert!]  >   > This should be simple, but ... > H > Since reinstalling Win2K on my internet gateway system I can't seem toE > get a data connection to the FTP server from outside my LAN.  I can G > connect and login just fine, get STAT and SYST results, but directory 
 > listings > J > To eliminate other possible causes I shut down the ZoneAlarm firewall onC > the gateway system, but the results were the same.  It also seems J > unlikely that it's the fact I'm using Internet Connection Sharing on theH > W2K box, since connections to my other VMS servers like HTTP and HTTPS > are working just fine. > I > The HGFTP log files aren't too revealing (to me).  Here's an example of F > me connecting (telnet to remote VMS host, then FTP back from there),H > running the STAT and SYST commands, then trying a GET of a known file.5 > The client merely "locks" and eventually times out:  > B >   7-OCT-2003 18:40:20.49 Connection accepted for server 00000009G >   7-OCT-2003 18:40:21.13 Server 00000009 (142.32.2.124) [FTP: Session + > begins. User=<USERID>, Host=<RemoteHost>] F >   7-OCT-2003 18:40:42.77 Server 00000009 (142.32.2.124) [FTP: STAT ]F >   7-OCT-2003 18:40:53.30 Server 00000009 (142.32.2.124) [FTP: SYST ]@ >   7-OCT-2003 18:43:18.77 Connection closed for server 00000009B >   7-OCT-2003 18:43:18.85 Connection accepted for server 0000000AG >   7-OCT-2003 18:43:19.39 Server 0000000A (142.32.2.124) [FTP: Session + > begins. User=<USERID>, Host=<RemoteHost>]  > A > Any suggestions on troubleshooting this would be appreciated...  > 
 > GREATLY! >  > Thanks for reading,  >  > Alder  >    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 09:34:06 -0500 4 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)" Subject: Re: how to start DECevent3 Message-ID: <B$xGGCXqCSCR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   L Now that they've scrambled the FTP site, can someone point me to where I canF FTP DECevent 3.4 Alpha VMS directly to my VMS system? It used to be atD ftp.support.compaq.com/svctools but that directory no longer exists.    1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:17:16 GMT , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>" Subject: Re: how to start DECevent2 Message-ID: <0_ehb.6695$xY3.2256@news.cpqcorp.net>  L I don't kow what happened to the FTP location.. but the HTTP locations still work.   H go to http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/svctools/decevent/index.html#vms   -warren     A "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote in message - news:B$xGGCXqCSCR@eisner.encompasserve.org... J > Now that they've scrambled the FTP site, can someone point me to where I can H > FTP DECevent 3.4 Alpha VMS directly to my VMS system? It used to be atF > ftp.support.compaq.com/svctools but that directory no longer exists. >  > 2 > Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"& > >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< > Kaplow Klips & Baffle:4 http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf? >     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org  www.nar.org  > $ >  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!* http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:20:17 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>" Subject: Re: how to start DECevent8 Message-ID: <05vaov873bcgsf7mau4f4d83ri0dbufi8e@4ax.com>  L On 9 Oct 2003 09:34:06 -0500, kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:  M >Now that they've scrambled the FTP site, can someone point me to where I can G >FTP DECevent 3.4 Alpha VMS directly to my VMS system? It used to be at E >ftp.support.compaq.com/svctools but that directory no longer exists.  >  > 2 >	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"' >		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< L >Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfM >    www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  > P > Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html  4 This appears to be the main DECevent page right now:  ? 	http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/svctools/decevent/index.html I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:52:23 GMT - From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1> 8 Subject: Re: http_server / quotas / decnet task creation2 Message-ID: <rdahb.6672$dI3.1771@news.cpqcorp.net>  = "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message . news:bm1c0g$e35$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > ? > Our "www server 80" process keeps getting into a MUTEX state. 7 > Bytlm showed as just under 9914 (limit), 192 (avail).  > It appears to be started by:) > $ open net 0"http_server"::"0=www_init"  > 7 > http_server had a bytlm of 64k - I doubled it to 128k 3 > The system pql figures are mbytlm 1k, dbytlm 64k.  > F > Having rebooted, the "www server 80" process now has bytlm of 87-89kJ > (fluctuates) - there's an http_server_1 subprocess which may account for > the fluctuation I suppose. >  > The questions are:9 > 1) What determines the quotas of a decnet task object ? L A simple way is, before starting it, bump the pql, start it, restore the pql$ You will be sure it uses high quotas  " > 2) What quotas are appropriate ?G > alphaserver 2100A, 1Gb memory, VMS 7.3, doing nothing but webserving.   F > 3) Is there a less drastic solution than rebooting when it MUTEXes ?J Yes Amds/Availability Manager allows you to bump quotas, and there used to" be a .exe bumping Bytlm available.2 But it is safer to use Amds/ Availability Manager.   regards    Grard   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 03 05:32:29 PST  From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com 8 Subject: Re: http_server / quotas / decnet task creation( Message-ID: <xZLin0MhJZQL@cpva.saic.com>  4 In article <bm1c0g$e35$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,3  Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:  > ? > Our "www server 80" process keeps getting into a MUTEX state. 7 > Bytlm showed as just under 9914 (limit), 192 (avail).  > It appears to be started by:) > $ open net 0"http_server"::"0=www_init"  > 7 > http_server had a bytlm of 64k - I doubled it to 128k 3 > The system pql figures are mbytlm 1k, dbytlm 64k.  > G > Having rebooted, the "www server 80" process now has bytlm of 87-89k  K > (fluctuates) - there's an http_server_1 subprocess which may account for   > the fluctuation I suppose. >  > The questions are:9 > 1) What determines the quotas of a decnet task object ? " > 2) What quotas are appropriate ?G > alphaserver 2100A, 1Gb memory, VMS 7.3, doing nothing but webserving. F > 3) Is there a less drastic solution than rebooting when it MUTEXes ? > 	 > Thanks,  > Chris  >   	 1) SYSUAF G 2) short answer - whatever it takes, it's only a limit and doesn't mean +    that the process will actually use it up H 3) supported method is AMDS - I typically don't have AMDS available whenB    I encounter a bytlm depletion and so I use the attached code toI    increase it on the fly (usual disclaimers apply; use at your own risk, 1    may crash your system, yadda, yadda, yadda...)  --   - Jim   / -----------------------------------------------  ; BUMP_BYTLM ; G ; This routine bumps up the value of selected (at assembly time) quotas I ; in a process (described by its PID) to perhaps free a MUTEX wait state.  ;  ; H ; Much code shamelessly borrowed from an original program of J Wren Hunt0 ; that flipped the process' DELETE/NODELETE bit. ;  ; Build: ;       $ macro disk_usage ;       $! LINK on VAX# ;       $   link/notrace bump_bytlm  ;       $! LINK on AXP4 ;       $   link/notrace/sysexe=selective bump_bytlm   ; 4 ; define ALPHA if R22 is a register and not a symbol ; <         .ntype  ...IS_IT_ALPHA,R22      ;Get the type of R222         ...IS_IT_ALPHA = <...IS_IT_ALPHA@-4&^XF>-5'         .iif eq,...IS_IT_ALPHA, ALPHA=1      	.macro	error_check ?l
 	blbs	r0,l 	$exit_s	r0  l: 	.endm   	.library	\sys$library:lib.mlb\ . 	.link		\sys$system:sys.stb\ /selective_search  # 	$dscdef			; descriptor definitions . 	$jibdef			; job information block definitions. 	$pcbdef			; process control block definitions' 	$phddef			; process header definitions   	$ssdef			; system service codes   	.psect $data$ noexe,rd,wrt,4  begin_lock: 3 				; Start locking working set pages here (we want / 				; to ensure we don't page fault above IPL 2 , 				; when we go to fetch this piece of data cmkrnl_args:# 	.long	1		; 1 argument to be passed   	.address pid		;  and this is it  9 pid:	.blkl	1		; user specified PID of process to undelete 	 end_lock:   * pid_desc:			; descriptor for lib$get_input 	.word	8 	.byte	dsc$k_dtype_t 	.byte	dsc$k_class_s
 	.address .+4  	.blkb	8   prompt:	.ascid	/pid> /   user_data_to_lock: 	.address begin_lock 	.address end_lock   kernel_lock: 	.address kernel_begin 	.address kernel_end     	.psect $code$  exe,rd,nowrt,4 	.entry bump_bytlm, ^m<>   ; get PID in ascii format  	pushal	pid_desc 	pushal	prompt 	pushal	pid_desc 	calls	#3,g^lib$get_input  	error_check  # ; convert it from ascii to longword  	pushal	pid  	pushal	pid_desc 	calls	#2,g^ots$cvt_tz_l 	error_check  O ; since we're raising IPL to IPL$_ASTDEL (because we don't want the possibility N ; of our being deleted while we're messing with the system data structures) weB ; must also lock down our code since we can't page at elevated IPL; 	$lkwset_s inadr=user_data_to_lock	; lock data in user mode  	error_check  + ; jump into kernel mode to do the real work + 	$cmkrnl_s routin=zap_it,arglst=cmkrnl_args  	error_check   	ret					; back to DCL    % ; kernel mode to alter process quotas          .if defined, ALPHA=         .call_entry max_args=2,home_args=true,label=zap_it, - .                     output=r0,preserve=<r2,r5>         .iff 	.entry	zap_it, ^m<r2,r5> 
         .endc   J ; lock down memory so that we don't fault above IPL$_ASTDEL... page faults8 ; are allowed in kernel mode - just not at elevated IPL. 	$lkwset_s inadr=kernel_lock 	blbs	r0,10$			; ok  	ret  B ; $CMKRNL argument list specifies 1 argument; the user entered PID& 10$:	movl	@4(ap),r0		; move EPID to r0  F ; convert external PID to internal PID using EXE$EPID_TO_IPID... input# ; is in r0 and output will be in r0          .if defined, ALPHA 	jsb	g^exe$cvt_epid_to_ipid          .iff 	jsb	g^exe$epid_to_ipid 
         .endc   O ; obtain the SCHED spinlock so that we can raise IPL on a multiprocessor system 
 kernel_begin: D 	lock	lockname=SCHED,preserve=YES ; synch with scheduler db, save r01 	movl	g^sch$gl_pcbvec,r2	; get base of PCB vector ( 	movzwl	r0,r0			; just use low order PID! 	movl	(r2)[r0],r0		; grab his PCB 0 	cmpl	pcb$l_epid(r0),@4(ap)	; is he still there? 	bneq	20$			; if not... 8 	bbc	#pcb$v_phdres,pcb$l_sts(r0),20$ ; PHD not resident?' 	movl	pcb$l_jib(r0),r5	; locate the JIB   E ;;; ++ alter these cells to select the process quota at assembly time  ;;; @ 	addl	#^x8000,jib$l_bytcnt(r5) ; bump up the byte count by 32768? 	addl	#^x8000,jib$l_bytlm(r5)	; bump up the byte limit by 32768  ;;; E ;;; -- alter these cells to select the process quota at assembly time   9 	unlock	lockname=SCHED,newipl=#0 ; give up SCHED spinlock & 	movl	#ss$_normal,r0		; signal success 	ret				; exit kernel mode 20$:9 	unlock	lockname=SCHED,newipl=#0 ; give up SCHED spinlock 3 	movl	#ss$_nonexpr,r0		; signal nonexistant process  	ret				; exit kernel mode kernel_end:    	.end	bump_bytlm   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 08:31:57 -0700 * From: tommynoble@hotmail.com (Tommy Noble)* Subject: Re: Idle Telnet Sessions Dropping= Message-ID: <494eba13.0310090731.391dfa4a@posting.google.com>   " I'll start with installing ECO2.    A The described behavior is consistent between two almost identical F systems which were upgraded using the same exact procedures and to theD same exact revs, but about 6 weeks apart.  We had not attributed theC problems with the first system to the upgrade until we saw the same D behavior on the second system; now we're pretty sure it's related to TCP/IP or its configuration.  D I've also seen the same behavior on other systems on other networks,2 and it seems now as if it may be the same problem.  A Hardware between the alpha and the systems where the problems are E being observed has not changed since before the upgrades.  That seems B to support the above suspicions.  Emulators on the remote networksF vary, but on my system it has not changed since before the upgrades on the host side.  
 To reiterate:   D * Connections are not dropped on the local network; only connections  from other networks are dropped.  @ * Connections from an alpha on a remote network are not dropped.  F What kind of detail do I need to provide (and where should I go to get it) to get more specific.   C Do keepalives or receive/send quotas that need to be adjusted?  Are F these things documented in detail in the HP documentation (if so, I'veE missed it) or do I need to look for more generic TCP/IP documentation B for the details on what settings are available and how to consider adjusting them?    Thanks again...    Tommy     7 > Tommy Noble <tommynoble@hotmail.com> wrote in message 9 > news:494eba13.0310081228.61d78072@posting.google.com... G > > After upgrading from OpenVMS 7.1-2 and an ancient release of TCP/IPNH > > Services for OpenVMS (4.something), to 7.3-1 and 5.3 (ECO 1), telnetF > > sessions originating on far networks, and which are idle for 15-30J > > minutes will become frozen and eventually either fall off the host, orD > > will become disembodied processes which have to be stopped.  The> > > Virtual Terminal driver does not detect the disconnection. > >rG > > Whether or not the old behavior was a bug, or the new behavior is aCI > > feature (or in fact a bug), the old way is the way I need it to work.r > >eI > > Funnier still, a telnet session from another alpha does not drop whensI > > idle for hours at a time, but between a PC running Reflection or some 0 > > other emulation solution, the sessions drop.I > > Do I have to change some settings on the telnet service?  What shouldp > > I be looking for?  > >s > > Thanks in advance! > >  > > Tommy Noble    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:28:40 +0100e* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>+ Subject: Re: Job Scheduler - cross platformm' Message-ID: <bm3656$8us$1@lore.csc.com>    John Brandon wrote:o > L > I am looking around for a Job Scheduler for VMS, UNIX, Tru-64, Win/xx, and > LINUX. > 5 > Does anyone have such (or similiar) implementation?   ! http://www.mvpsi.com/openvms.htmln  A JAMS. I trialled this on VAX a long time ago, but went to RobomontE instead as it was just a VMS shop, but this is multi platform, and is & getting (has been?) ported to Itanium.   -- -? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:39:21 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e+ Subject: Re: Job Scheduler - cross platforms/ Message-ID: <voasoq9o5qog01@news.supernews.com>   7 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message,! news:bm3656$8us$1@lore.csc.com...s > John Brandon wrote:n > >'J > > I am looking around for a Job Scheduler for VMS, UNIX, Tru-64, Win/xx, ando
 > > LINUX. > >l7 > > Does anyone have such (or similiar) implementation?s >e# > http://www.mvpsi.com/openvms.html  >aC > JAMS. I trialled this on VAX a long time ago, but went to RobomonGG > instead as it was just a VMS shop, but this is multi platform, and ist( > getting (has been?) ported to Itanium. >-  B Already ported to Itanium.  JAMS was the second product to port to= OpenVMS/Itanium, Consoleworks from TECsys was the first.  Seeod http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/openvms/partners.html for the announcements.   John Vottero JAMS Developer   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:03:37 +0000 (UTC) From: angelina@erotismo.es Subject: News Test0 Message-ID: <bm3mb9$758$1@localhost.localdomain>   Testeo of the News --   Angelina Mi Photo Gallery http://erotismo.dnsq.org   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 00:15:58 -0700 . From: dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (Dieter  Ro?bach) Subject: Re: ODBTP on VMS ?.= Message-ID: <e1d40caf.0310082315.195fccd7@posting.google.com>i  $ I have two questions about unixODBC:  H 1. is there a "official" port for OpenVMS, or do I have to do it myself?C 2. has anybody tried it together with the ODBC support of CSWS_PHP?-$    That would be a need combination!   Regardsi   Dieter   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 08:21:18 -0700-& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)( Subject: Re: OT: Another microsoft virus= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0310090721.24b86a77@posting.google.com>n  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F829F4D.1201D6C7@istop.com>...- > Here is just a sample:O > >66.68.252.154 - - [04/Oct/2003:12:20:19 +0000] "GET /scripts/root.exe?/c+dirj >  HTTP/1.0" 404 60 "" ""o6 > >66.68.252.154 - - [04/Oct/2003:12:20:33 +0000] "GETJ >  /scripts/..%255c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 404 60 "" ""  D Not new.  My site has been getting this (along with occasional NIMDAC hits _STILL_) every other day or so and has since I opened it up ins> January.  I think its some scriptkiddy looking for the typical0 vulnerable IIS server on unpatched wintel boxes.   Rich Jordanr   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 00:11:11 -0700S% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)e) Subject: Re: Problem with SWCC_CONFIG.com = Message-ID: <a98cd882.0310082311.13ec8630@posting.google.com>   < You can put the long string in a DCL symbol and then use the+ WRITE/SYMBOL command. See HELP WRITE/SYMBOLi   HTH(  	 Bart Zorna  u dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) wrote in message news:<a3c44af1.0310080938.787d284f@posting.google.com>...bA > Can anyone help me here.    I have a two node cluster of ES40'stG > running OVMS 7.3-1, connected via a SAN setup to two pairs of HSG80'snG > with 42 drives attached to each controller pair.   Each of the ES40'stB > has two HBA's, and is dualpathed to the storage via two separate; > fabrics, i.e. Each Host (ES40) has 4 paths to each drive.iF >      The CC Lun's on the two pairs of HSG's are set to 9000 and 9001F > and they appear on the hosts as devices $1$gga9000: and $1$gga9001:. > G > When I try to run SWCC_CONFIG and add a sub-system (option 8), I give  > it;  >  > Subsystem Name: HSG9000h > Device Name:    $1$gga9000:  > Monitoring interval: 5 secs  > 
 > I then get;6 > C > Adding subsystem: hsg9000, access device: $1$GGA9000:, monitoring1
 > interval: 5mH > %DCL-W-BUFOVF, command buffer overflow - shorten expression or command > line > $l > 7 > If I "set verify" and run it again this is what I getc > > $write cfile "hsg9000|$1$GGA9000:|5|18|81D11B00PATHBIAS:0017PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1992PRIMARY,CURRENT|81D17AC0PATHBIAS:0016PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1991|81D123C0|81D123C0PATHBIAS:0002PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1994|81D182C0PATHBIAS:0006PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1993|81D11B00PATHBIAS:0017PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1992PRIMARY,CURRENT|81D17AC0PATHBIAS:0016PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1991|81D182C0|81D12 C%> PATHBIAS:0002PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1994|81D182C0PATHBIAS:0006PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1993|81D172C0PATHBIAS:0005PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C13|81D11300|81D11300PATHBIAS:0005PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C14|81D18AC0PATHBIAS:0015PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C11|81D172C0PATHBIAS:0005PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C13|81D18AC0|81D11300PATHBIAS:0005PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C14|81D18AC0PATHBIAS:0015PATH:PGB0. 0e > 0-1FE1-0012-1C11|"H > %DCL-W-BUFOVF, command buffer overflow - shorten expression or command > line > $exit: > " > Does anyone have any suggestions > 	 > Thanks T > 
 > Dave Baxtero   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 03:28:23 -0700r) From: oliver.steeples@compaq.com (Oliver)e) Subject: Re: Problem with SWCC_CONFIG.comI= Message-ID: <e5029990.0310090228.16726c79@posting.google.com>F   This is a known issue.    > The SWCC polling of the storage comes back with a string > 255" characters which vms can't handle.  B Contact your local HP office and they should be able to supply the" latest 2.5 agent which fixes this.   Regards,	    Oliver   4 PS: SWCC should only be run on 1 node in the cluster    e "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<005hb.27370$832.8932@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...Y= > Dave Baxter <dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com> wrote in message$9 > news:a3c44af1.0310080938.787d284f@posting.google.com... C > > Can anyone help me here.    I have a two node cluster of ES40's.I > > running OVMS 7.3-1, connected via a SAN setup to two pairs of HSG80'ssI > > with 42 drives attached to each controller pair.   Each of the ES40's D > > has two HBA's, and is dualpathed to the storage via two separate= > > fabrics, i.e. Each Host (ES40) has 4 paths to each drive. H > >      The CC Lun's on the two pairs of HSG's are set to 9000 and 9001H > > and they appear on the hosts as devices $1$gga9000: and $1$gga9001:. > >/I > > When I try to run SWCC_CONFIG and add a sub-system (option 8), I give- > > it;- > >- > > Subsystem Name: HSG9000H > > Device Name:    $1$gga9000:f > > Monitoring interval: 5 secs- > >- > > I then get;h > > E > > Adding subsystem: hsg9000, access device: $1$GGA9000:, monitoringA > > interval: 5nJ > > %DCL-W-BUFOVF, command buffer overflow - shorten expression or command > > line > > $P > >n9 > > If I "set verify" and run it again this is what I getr > >c > > $write cfileN > "hsg9000|$1$GGA9000:|5|18|81D11B00PATHBIAS:0017PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1992N > PRIMARY,CURRENT|81D17AC0PATHBIAS:0016PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1991|81D123C0|N > 81D123C0PATHBIAS:0002PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1994|81D182C0PATHBIAS:0006PATHN > :PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1993|81D11B00PATHBIAS:0017PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1992N > PRIMARY,CURRENT|81D17AC0PATHBIAS:0016PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1991|81D182C0|	 > 81D123CA > >iN > PATHBIAS:0002PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1994|81D182C0PATHBIAS:0006PATH:PGB0.50N > 00-1FE1-0012-1993|81D172C0PATHBIAS:0005PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C13|81D1130N > 0|81D11300PATHBIAS:0005PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C14|81D18AC0PATHBIAS:0015PAN > TH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C11|81D172C0PATHBIAS:0005PATH:PGB0.5000-1FE1-0012-1CN > 13|81D18AC0|81D11300PATHBIAS:0005PATH:PGA0.5000-1FE1-0012-1C14|81D18AC0PATHB > IAS:0015PATH:PGB0.50 > > 0-1FE1-0012-1C11|"J > > %DCL-W-BUFOVF, command buffer overflow - shorten expression or command > > line
 > > $exit: > >t$ > > Does anyone have any suggestions > L > Yes, scrap the SWCC GUI stuff and use the CLI interface to monitor/programN > your HSG's.  You can connect the console ports of the Alphaservers and HSG'sH > to a Decserver700, or some such similar device, and access it remotelyN > through the Telnet Listener service.  Something like ConsoleWorks allows youL > to have remote access, share the access, as well as scanning/alerting  for8 > problems/errors on the systems.  Ours runs on a DS10L. >  > 
 > > Thanks > >3 > > Dave Baxter    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 03:29:44 -0700?) From: oliver.steeples@compaq.com (Oliver)n) Subject: Re: Problem with SWCC_CONFIG.comw; Message-ID: <e5029990.0310090229.a72f89@posting.google.com>R  C This is a known issue with SWCC's polling coming back with a stringa' >255 characters which vms can't handle.t  E Contact your local HP office who should be able to provide the latestt 2.5 agent which fixes this.n   Regards,	    Oliverg   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:15:41 +0200. From: "Nicol@s" <ne_me_repondez_pas_par_email>0 Subject: Re: Simple question : foum DCL -> ici ?B Message-ID: <3f853553$0$21869$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>   mercie byee Nicol@s   ? "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> a crit dans le message de news:-' blr52m$9b7$2@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr...  > Jean-Luc wrote:  >n > > Essayes  fr.com.os.vms > " > Essaie plutt fr.comp.os.vms :-) >s > D. > --/ > Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurose >                     Tout VMS0 >   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France0 >   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500( >           http://www.didiermorandi.com& >             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851 >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:55:24 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>, Subject: SKHPC's view on the port to Itanium2 Message-ID: <bm3pch$i77$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>   From:.F http://www.hp-interex.org/site/cms/contentviewarticle.asp?article=1852  
 ---[start]---e Any Port(s) in a Storm  E "For those interested in VAX/Alpha/IPF mixed-mode clusters, or those eD concerned that their ancient VAX code wont run on Itanium systems, F theres good news: it seems that it will be possible to most VAX code F directly to Integrity (the new name for IPF-based systems.). Also, it G will it be possible to translate native VAX code to IPF either with or oE without an intermediate step through SRIs CHARON-VAX. As of current  I plans, customers can translate their aging VAX apps and code from VAX to tG Alpha using the old VEST/ DECmigrate tool, and they can then translate  G their translated code to Itanium using the Alpha to Itanium translator iG which SRI has developed for us. SRI has considered developing a direct tB VAX to Itanium translator tool, but that would be under their own I funding. So under current plans, HP will have tools that allow customers MH to translate code from VAX to Itanium. This will be a two-step process, H but HP opted for this technique to ensure that translated code on Alpha C today could then be translated to Itanium, thus reassuring the VAX lC community that they have not been forgotten or cast aside by HP or   OpenVMS Engineering".e   Terry Shannon, SKHPC ---[end]---o  4 Terry, I love the "by HP or OpenVMS Engineering" :-)   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:37:55 +0100fO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit0 Message-ID: <bm3a9j$kbb$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Tim Shoppa wrote:c > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bm11d7$q6c$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...8 > A >>>It gives the shop full and absolute control over its code base B >>>and chosen (not dictated) hardware.  This is of enormous value. >>: >>No it doesn't because for a lot of terribly good reasons9 >>community Linux is not an option for most commercial IT  >>shops except on the desktop. >>> >>If for example you are an Oracle customer you are restricted@ >>to running commercial Linux (Red Hat or SuSE) for any mid tier> >>of backend DBMS oracle products. Only the client side Oracle( >>apps are supported on community Linux. >  > D > I agree, mixing Oracle and "rolled in your own shop" Linux doesn'tE > work.  I don't hold that against Linux, I hold that against Oracle.  >   : Not really, put yourself in Oracles possition, if you make9 a change to a kernel structure for example the filesystem/6 which Oracle uses directly or to a library that Oracle: requires then their ability to diagnose your problem could5 well be hampered or completely negated by the changest1 that you have made. Plus you may break their app.g  = Oracle qualify and test against Red Hat/SuSE and support them ; because they can back off the working out what on earth wase/ done to the device drive/lib/fs to Red Hat etc.a  B Without that they would in essence be trying to support a possiblyC unlimited number of similar but slightly different OS's all looselyoE called Linux without access to the changes that make that OS slightly  different from the rest.  B In the circumstances Oracles possition is entirely understandable.   Regards' Andrew HarrisonF   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:39:16 +0100aO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>o Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit0 Message-ID: <bm3ac4$kbb$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <blurcu$403$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  > 8 >>The only thing is cost or rather apparent cost savings8 >>and if they turn out to be apparent rather than actual >>then you have nothing. >  > D >    Doens't matter.  All of us here on c.o.v can trot out the whiteG >    papers which claim to show VMS has the lowest TCO.  The boss still: >    wants cheap PCs.  e > H >    You'ld never let us get away with the TCO argument for VMS, so why ( >    should we listen to one from you?   > L >    Today I know I can put together a Linux/Pentium solution for less cost I >    on delivery than a UNIX, VMS, MVS, ... solution for any problem thattF >    Linux can handle.  I just gotta remember to get the boss a WintelH >    box in the deal so he can run all those Office virus processors and >    keep his MCSE on staff. > E >    Fortunately for my sanity I like working on problems that Linux,d$ >    UNIX, and Windows can't handle. >     F I am not talking about TCO I am talking about TCA which for commercial? Linux/x86 combos is deomonstrably higher than the alternatives.s   regardsu Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 07:47:48 -0700r+ From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)i Subject: Re: Sun takes a hit: Message-ID: <bec993c8.0310090647.c73a4@posting.google.com>   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bm3a9j$kbb$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... D > In the circumstances Oracles possition is entirely understandable.  E Not really.  They're losing lots of sales because they want the worldfD to adapt to them.  Sure, there are customers who are clueless enough? to just bend to Oracle's whims and build their whole enterprisef) computing system around what Oracle says.   F But the rest of us realize there are alternatives which do not involve% strapping ourselves to Oracle's mast.L   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:44:01 GMTk9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>y1 Subject: Re: SUN to release a new chip technology-2 Message-ID: <lfghb.6706$q34.1955@news.cpqcorp.net>  A Cool.  Can't wait to see a 1ft square, single layer Sparc CPU ;-)m    / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in messageR, news:bm0b65$i2n$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr.../ > (translated from French with systransoft.com)3 >8F > Ivan Sutherland, Robert Drost and Robert Hopkins, researchers of theB > company Sun Microsystems, presented last Thursday, during CustomE > Integrated Circuits Conference in San Jose (California), of work on,J > integrated circuits which could revolutionize data-processing  industry. >oG > The microprocessors of the computers consist of thousands of circuitsmI > integrated or microchips.  Traditional method of manufacture consist inwH > forming, starting from purified silicon, a wafer stacking (wafer) veryB > low thickness on which one engraves million electronic circuits.B > Each chip is connected to its neighbors by tiny electric wire ofF > some micrometers of diameter, welded on the surface of wafer.  ThereI > cut wire and that of wafer constitutes factors limiting to accumulationcK > of the chips and thus with the capacity of calculation of  the processor.  >jF > However the American researchers succeeded in working out integrated@ > circuits laid out coast at coast, passing in addition to wire. >TA > These experimental loops can thus make circulate data with 21,6sA > Gigabits a second.  By comparison, Pentium 4 of INTEL posts one(G > capacity of 50 Gigabits a second;  but fathers of the news technologyoG > estimate that this one should make it possible to reach  speeds aboutaJ > thousand Gigabits a second, finalized once (the question of  the rise inC > the temperature related to this kind of configuration  remains in.	 suspense)8 >.H > Sun Microsystems quickly hopes to place this new product on the marketJ > and thus to make up for its lost time on its principal competitors  like > Microsoft and INTEL. >r  > Source:  Science et Techniques >o > (Original en franais)C > Ivan Sutherland, Robert Drost et Robert Hopkins, chercheurs de laiF > socit Sun Microsystems, ont prsent jeudi dernier, au cours de laD > Custom Integrated Circuits Conference  San Jose (Californie), des@ > travaux sur les circuits intgrs qui pourraient rvolutionner > l'industrie informatique.o >tE > Les microprocesseurs des ordinateurs sont constitus de milliers de C > circuits intgrs ou puces lectroniques. La mthode classique depA > fabrication consiste  former,  partir de silicium purifi, unrH > empilement de galettes (wafer) de trs faible paisseur sur lesquelles2 > on grave des millions de circuits lectroniques.J > Chaque puce est relie  ses voisines par de minuscules fils lectriquesI > de quelques micromtres de diamtre, souds  la surface de la galette. D > La taille des fils et celle de la galette constituent des facteursI > limitants  l'accumulation des puces et donc  la capacit de calcul du:
 > processeur.  >0J > Or les chercheurs amricains ont russi  laborer des circuits intgrs/ > disposs cte  cte, passant outre les fils.5 >nG > Ces circuits exprimentaux peuvent ainsi faire circuler des donnes 0J > 21,6 Gigabits par seconde. Par comparaison, le Pentium 4 d'Intel afficheI > une capacit de 50 Gigabits par seconde ; mais les pres de la nouvelle.E > technologie estiment que celle-ci devrait permettre d'atteindre des-G > vitesses de l'ordre de mille Gigabits par seconde, une fois finaliselB > (la question de l'lvation de la temprature lie  ce genre de! > configuration reste en suspens)C >iE > Sun Microsystems espre rapidement placer ce nouveau produit sur lenE > march et ainsi rattraper son retard sur ses principaux concurrentso > comme Microsoft et Intel.  >   > Source : Science et Techniques >h > D. > --/ > Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros  >                     Tout VMS0 >   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France0 >   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500( >           http://www.didiermorandi.com& >             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851 >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:54:59 GMToA From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>  Subject: Re: swxcrmgrm= Message-ID: <n0chb.1981$1r3.18108454@news-text.cableinet.net>t  I As Nic says: Go there. Do it locally. Update the firmware while you're ato it.t  @ Been there. Being remote for this stuff isn't a good experience.   -- t   Hope this helps, Colin./) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk L Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.x   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:23:33 -0400/ From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net>  Subject: RE: swxcrmgrV? Message-ID: <PBEDIAGOKEDCKCLPJKAFGEKKCCAA.hvanderw@comcast.net>p   Thanks all !!!  2 its a nice day for a 7.5 hr drive to western IL :)     -----Original Message-----F From: Colin Butcher [mailto:colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk]( Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 7:55 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn Subject: Re: swxcrmgr_    I As Nic says: Go there. Do it locally. Update the firmware while you're at  it.   @ Been there. Being remote for this stuff isn't a good experience.   --   Hope this helps, Colin.3) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uktL Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:51:49 GMTo6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: swxcrmgr < Message-ID: <Fmghb.9022$vg6.3807@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>  J Also available on the Alpha Firmware CD.  You can run direct from the CD's? as I had a bright field service engineer demonstrate one night.#   -- Andy Bustamante  remove the ASCII 95s to replyv* <mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com> wrote in message" news:Pa5DJ66bC4yp@cpva.saic.com...A > In article <PBEDIAGOKEDCKCLPJKAFMEIOCCAA.hvanderw@comcast.net>,-4 >  "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net> writes:G > > does anyone know if there is a Charter cell version of this programa anywhere > > ??J > > I have a customer that has had to replace several drives in his system and Id > > need to reformat9 > > that drive from my office - his is many miles away :(-1 > > I can telnet into his system but that is all.  > >i3 > > This or any other ideas would be most helpful !  > >i
 > > Thanks > > Hank > >e > >y > L > The character cell version of swxcrmgr is srlmgr.exe. However it has to beE > run in console mode and not from VMS so you won't be able to use it  directlyF > via telnet. You might be able to front-end the alpha server's serial consolet2 > with a terminal server and telnet to it however. >cE > If you can't locate a copy of srlmgr.exe (I think it was on the RCUg	 diskettes1J > as was also available on the DEC/Compaq/HP firmware in the past) I might beK > able to locate a copy (email to user mckinneyj at the domain saic.com) if( you)
 > want it. > -- > - Jimt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:12:33 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>h Subject: TSM on Alphae: Message-ID: <n1ehb.12261$oO4.907029@news20.bellglobal.com>  L I've got a problem. I've installed the Alpha version of TSM (Terminal ServerK Manager) on my AS-DS20E. DECnet Phase IV identifies my network interface as * EIA-0 but TSM will not allow me to use it.H %TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n, ISA-n, KFE-n, MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expectedl  L So I moved TSM to my old AS-4100 (built in 1996) where DECnet identifies theI network interface as EWA-0. I received the same error on this platform as  well.h  
 Any thoughts?c  L p.s. (TSM seems to expect VAX interfaces. Could it be that the Alpha version  of TSM was bot built correctly?)      
 Neil Rieck   www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieckt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:09:45 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: TSM on Alpha Q Message-ID: <OF76EB39E1.1A05D094-ON85256DBA.0052851E-85256DBA.0052E0B1@metso.com>r  . You did not say what version you have running.F I use the following, and from the release notes, you should be able to
 handle it.E (I have EWA-x on this AS1200 so I did not need to go the logical namen definition.X   $ SHOW SYSTEM/NOPROCESS H OpenVMS V7.3-1  on node NODEA   9-OCT-2003 11:00:38.69  Uptime  84 05:0= 3:58 $ TSMh Terminal Server Manager V2.1-07 H Copyright =A9 Digital Equipment Corporation. 1994, 1995 All Rights Rese= rved.a Usage is DIRECTORY TSM>  5               Terminal Server Manager Version V2.1-07h               Release Notest   9.2  New LAN Circuit Support  H               Support has been added for additional LAN circuits, resul= tingH               in the following list of supported circuits: (DECnet Phas= eW IV)uE               UNA-x, MNA-x, ISA-x, KFE-x, MFA-x, FZA-x, MXE-x, QNA-x,  SVA-x,D               BNA-x, ERA-x, EWA-x, FAA-x, FEA-x, FWA-x; (DECnet/OSI) CSMACD-MH               x, FDDI-x. When you specify a service circuit for a termi= nalrF               server, the circuit identifier is validated against this list.lH               If you do not specify a circuit, TSM automatically select= sa thehH               default service circuit by determining which of these cir= cuitH               types are present on the system, and using the one appear= ingh!               latest in the list..  H               In addition, a new logical name, TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS, al= lowsH               this list to be extended with user-defined circuit names.=   ThisH               may be used to inform TSM of additional circuit types. Th= e H               logical name is defined with a translation list of additi= onalF               circuit definitions, each of the form "ddd/ccccccccccc", whereiH               ddd is the corresponding VMS device prefix (up to 3 chara= c-H               ters), and ccccccccccc is the DECnet circuit name prefix = (up H               to 11 characters). Exceeding the character length limits = forTH               either of these fields will result in the error condition= sA TSM-B               F-USER_DEV_BAD or TSM-F-USER_CIRC_BAD, respectively.
 AdditionalH               blanks and tabs are permitted for spacing. For example, t= heE               definition for the DEQNA adapter would be "XQ/QNA" on ai DECnetH               Phase IV system, or "XQ/CSMACD" on a DECnet/OSI system, s= inceH               devices on this type of adapter are identified as XQxx an= dsB               DECnet circuits are identified as QNA-x or CSMACD-x.  H               As a more complete example, the full system-wide definiti= on ofH               TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS to add circuit types XYZ-x (device t= ypeg:               PQxx) and ABC-x (device type RSxx) would be:  F               $ DEFINE/SYSTEM TSM$SERVICE_CIRCUITS - ! Add new adapter supporti?                   "PQ/XYZ", -    ! High-speed DEXYZ LAN adapterd>                   "RS/ABC"    ! Twisted-pair DEABC LAN adapter  H               Note that if a user-defined circuit definition duplicates=  oneH               of the known device identifiers (using a different circui= tdH               identifier), TSM will accept both circuit names, but will=  useH               the user-defined name for the circuit if it is selected a= se thecH               default service circuit. This may be used to override the=   cir-@               cuit identifier for one of the known device types. Conversely,(H               if a user-defined circuit definition duplicates one of th= esH               known circuit identifiers (using a different device ident= i-H               fier), TSM will use that circuit identifier when devices = ofF               either type are selected as the default service circuit.    A From:  "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> on 10/09/2003 10:12 AMt  5 Please respond to "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>o   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:    Subject:    TSM on Alpha    E I've got a problem. I've installed the Alpha version of TSM (Terminalr ServerH Manager) on my AS-DS20E. DECnet Phase IV identifies my network interfac= e as* EIA-0 but TSM will not allow me to use it.H %TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n, ISA-n, KFE-n= ,i MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expected;  H So I moved TSM to my old AS-4100 (built in 1996) where DECnet identifie= sD the:H network interface as EWA-0. I received the same error on this platform = as well.E  
 Any thoughts?i  D p.s. (TSM seems to expect VAX interfaces. Could it be that the Alpha versione  of TSM was bot built correctly?)      
 Neil Rieck   www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieckb               =i   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Oct 2003 17:01:30 +0200g' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)  Subject: Re: TSM on Alphav+ Message-ID: <ENYQRtgSaATt@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>P  f In article <n1ehb.12261$oO4.907029@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:N > I've got a problem. I've installed the Alpha version of TSM (Terminal ServerM > Manager) on my AS-DS20E. DECnet Phase IV identifies my network interface as , > EIA-0 but TSM will not allow me to use it.J > %TSM-E-INVALID_CIRCUIT, UNA-n, QNA-n, BNA-n, SVA-n, MNA-n, ISA-n, KFE-n,! > MFA-n, FZA-n, or MXE-n expected0N > So I moved TSM to my old AS-4100 (built in 1996) where DECnet identifies theK > network interface as EWA-0. I received the same error on this platform asn > well.; > Any thoughts?iN > p.s. (TSM seems to expect VAX interfaces. Could it be that the Alpha version" > of TSM was bot built correctly?)  N Maybe the TSM source has to be updated to accept newer interfaces, I think the! freeware one is with sources (?).d9 Worst case You have to change from decnet-IV to decnet-V:  On my alphas, it looks like:   Terminal Server Manager V2.1E Copyright  Digital Equipment Corporation. 1994. All Rights Reserved.  Usage is DIRECTORY TSM> show server tskelec< Server:         TSKELE             Circuit(s):      CSMACD-0    ? And it always works, because the circuits are always  CSMACD-n,e# independent of hardware interfaces.u   --  >    Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Muenchen   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:21:52 GMTtA From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>  Subject: Re: TSM on Alphao= Message-ID: <AWfhb.2198$Rp5.19786802@news-text.cableinet.net>m  9 Looks like you need the TSM V2.1 ECO06 or ECO07 kit. Try:m  Q http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/digital_networks_archive/servers/tsm/index.htmln   -- v   Hope this helps, Colin.f) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uktL Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:04:14 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: TSM on AlphacQ Message-ID: <OF6488D50A.5124BB98-ON85256DBA.005DAC57-85256DBA.005D5BF6@metso.com>m   "That's what I said."  ;-)   Thanks, Colin for the link.     E From:  "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> onk        10/09/2003 12:21 PM  ! Please respond to "Colin Butcher" 2        <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:I   Subject:    Re: TSM on Alpha    9 Looks like you need the TSM V2.1 ECO06 or ECO07 kit. Try:l  Q http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/digital_networks_archive/servers/tsm/index.html      --   Hope this helps, Colin.e) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT ukdH Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems andi	 networks.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:30:42 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>h. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?2 Message-ID: <S2ghb.6701$f24.4649@news.cpqcorp.net>  F To use this system you agree NOT to use it for, or publish performanceK information.  The software is preliminary, and almost *no* performance work I has been done.  The OS has most debugging information (like system check)oF turned on.  Most things have been compiled with optimization OFF.  TheK compiler back end is generating code optimized for Itanium-1 and not 2.  Wed; do not yet have feedback based optimizers.  And on, and on.r  F An EV7 built with those restrictions would likely perform like an EV5.  ; "mist dragon" <mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com> wrote in message 7 news:7500353b.0310072214.7122eaaf@posting.google.com... E > iVMS has been available on HP site. Although it is still beta, does09 > anyone have any information how it performs vs. Alpha ?1 >  > Mc   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:31:54 GMTc9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>o. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?2 Message-ID: <_3ghb.6702$n14.1707@news.cpqcorp.net>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:ZBRpR6Tk1opv@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > In article <bm0spq$hjnhi$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "H Vlems"l  <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes: >eJ > > Sure I read the welcome text. As we all (ought to) know, these systems runpE > > V8.0 which is basically a pre-production version of the operating-
 system. SoF > > V8.1 may be better in terms of performance and V8.2 surely will be faster.: >b  > You also might try the command >-- > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("SYSTEM_CHECK")c >e2 > to see if that particular slowdown is in effect.  L It is.  And there are even more tracing things for IPF for the new code like SWIS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:39:38 GMTl9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> . Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?2 Message-ID: <ebghb.6704$E04.4489@news.cpqcorp.net>  H We are torn about trying to the the "right" thing.  We want people to beJ able to try things, port things, check it out - as soon as we can get themD stuff that works.  But we don't want it used to club us bloody aboutK performance - which we EXPLICITLY have NOT addressed.  The release is builtvD mostly unoptimized.  Debug stuff like SYSTEM_CHECK are enabled.  The5 compiler back-end generates Itanium-1 optimized code.-  G Drawing conclusions about V8.0 performance to the production release inoL 2004, would be like using Alpha V1.0 Beta as a characterization of Alpha VMS performance.      . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:SeUgb.143438$3r1.40430@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...0 >5K > On the one hand the fact that a test system of any sort is 'available' isP a 
 > good thing.- > K > On the other hand, having a test system publicly available which performsoH > more poorly than the current 'state of the art' IA64 system does HP noI > service whatsoever. Early opinions and judgements will be formed on theSE > basis of the lesser system. HP should be ensuring that the very 1st  machine-J > of each iteration is available for public test drives to ensure that theJ > opportunity exists to put its best foot forward at the earliest possible > time.. >0J > Many managements will take the test result you garner from this slowpokeH > system and say 'That's what the numbers say - the numbers don't lie. I haveL > to justify our future direction based on facts not HP promises.' It may be5 > short-sighted, it may be wrong, but it does happen.- >4 >t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.560 ************************