1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 11 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 563       Contents: Re: Apache on VMS  Re: Apache on VMS / Convert C file descriptor to VMS channel number 3 Re: Convert C file descriptor to VMS channel number  Re: DCL improvements2 Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create?2 Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create?2 folks you are going to have to forgive my spelling? Forget the OSU job ... they are going to AIX ... sad, isn't it? / Re: HGFTP - how to troubleshoot data connection / Re: HGFTP - how to troubleshoot data connection : How to determine if an exe was generated by a given source> Re: How to determine if an exe was generated by a given source> Re: How to determine if an exe was generated by a given source> Re: How to determine if an exe was generated by a given source$ HP/COMPAQ DEGPA-TA 1000BaseT/Gigabit( Re: HP/COMPAQ DEGPA-TA 1000BaseT/Gigabit If HP had any brains ... Re: Info about HP  Re: Install Problem - It's now or perhaps never for a VMS comeback! " Re: Job Scheduler - cross platform Laptop, Reflections, delete key # Re: Laptop, Reflections, delete key  Re: Leaper Colony meeting > ppp on OpenVMS AlphaServer hardware port for remote gui access9 The VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Letter, Vol. 1 Number 1.  Re: TSM on Alpha Re: TSM on Alpha Re: TSM on Alpha) Re: Vax / VMS V5.5-2 External Drive Issue ) Re: Vax / VMS V5.5-2 External Drive Issue A Wake-up call for Carly Fiorina!  Either top IBM or sink with sun! % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?  Re: Zigi :-) Re: Zigi :-)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:27:25 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re: Apache on VMS1 Message-ID: <03101013272526@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    > Open VMS 7.3-1 > Apache Version 1.0  N That sounds low, I would upgrade to latest version.  Check out the web page to
 find that.  ? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.html   4 > The problem we are having is the images donappear. > Check out  > www.worldwidewines.com  4 Your problem is with the way you serve the pictures:  @ file://///Sbsserver/Inetpub/wwwroot/wines/images/www_newlogo.jpg  H You are attempting to serve the jpg from a file server not a web server.  I Change the file: reference to an http: reference and that will solve your 	 problems.          J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:05:41 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Apache on VMS2 Message-ID: <FaFhb.6842$qf5.2541@news.cpqcorp.net>  U In article <26Bhb.17618$Qo.16082@news2.central.cox.net>, "John" <me@hair.net> writes: B :Anyone know of a web site running on a VMS system under apache ?   )   http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/, for one.   < :We are having idiot type problems to get images to show up.  E   Details of the particular problem(s), the error(s), and the general    background, please?     E   One- or two-line questions are often impossible to answer.  I'd ask F   that you consider providing a few more details, the error message(s)C   (if any), the command(s) and/or HTML involved, and the Apache and '   related OpenVMS versions, as a start.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:39:36 -0700 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>8 Subject: Convert C file descriptor to VMS channel number' Message-ID: <3f86c4a8$1@cpns1.saic.com>   F I am in the process of making a program written for Unix available on E VMS.  As part of this, I need to write the VMS version of some IOCTL  G calls.  I'm not allowed to touch what the Unix code hands me (which is  G an Integer File Descriptor from an open call), nor would modifying the  E open call be practical since it is all the calls to IOCTL that would  + need to change, not the result of the open.   A On Unix, all IOCTL functions use a file descriptor.  On VMS, the  H functions I need to issue are QIO based and need a channel number.  How / can I find the channel associcated with the FD?   
 Mark Berryman   G P.S.  DECC$GET_SDC is not a viable answer.  That only works on sockets  F and I am working with other types of devices (e.g., CDROM, DVD, etc.).   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:00:40 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) < Subject: Re: Convert C file descriptor to VMS channel number2 Message-ID: <sSGhb.6857$kI5.1124@news.cpqcorp.net>  Z In article <3f86c4a8$1@cpns1.saic.com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:G :I am in the process of making a program written for Unix available on  F :VMS.  As part of this, I need to write the VMS version of some IOCTL H :calls.  I'm not allowed to touch what the Unix code hands me (which is H :an Integer File Descriptor from an open call), nor would modifying the F :open call be practical since it is all the calls to IOCTL that would , :need to change, not the result of the open.  C   The open call can optionally give you back the FAB and RAB, which E   is what you need here and what C utilizes to access the files -- if C   you don't modify the calling code but can jacket/#define the open C   calls into your own open calls, you can then add the acc= routine -   call which returns the RMS data structures.   B :On Unix, all IOCTL functions use a file descriptor.  On VMS, the C :functions I need to issue are QIO based and need a channel number. 4 :How can I find the channel associcated with the FD?  A   If one of the C engineers see this, they might know of a way to C   directly convert the fd to a channel -- I don't.  AFAIK, there is A   no API into this stuff -- for typical file I/O, C uses RMS, and A   leaves RMS to manage the I/O channels.  AFAIK, C itself doesn't 0   know the I/O channel involved, in other words.  B   Short of opening a parallel channel or getting the ioctl() callsB   added into what OpenVMS provides -- or using the jackets or such(   -- you are unfortunately rather stuck.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:21:24 +0100 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>  Subject: Re: DCL improvements < Message-ID: <AhGhb.321$IA.235@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: J > It is the case where the device does not even exist that is problematic. > B > We have a community of users agitating for the lexical to return@ > "FALSE" instead of generating an error in the case of checking! > "AVL" on a non-existent device.  > B > As a purist, I hold that the AVL bit is neither set nor reset onB > a nonexistent device.  The bit does not exist.  It has no value.> > If you ask for its value, an error status is what you should	 > expect.   ; As a pragmatist, I agree that changing the behaviour of AVL ; (and friends) now is going to cause needless harm. It's got 8 to be getting on to 15 years to late to change that now.  ; If the clamouring of the paying customers becomes too loud, 5 a new item code (isAVL) can be added with the desired 7 semantics. In fact, one for each problematic item code.   8 Perhaps have a new return status for the philosophically5 vexing case: maybe "DUNNO" (which conveniently should  turn out to evaluate to FALSE).   6 (I presume "D" still evaluates to FALSE in the Russian7 OpenVMS kit? Perhaps this could be fixed too and proper 2 "locales" could be implemented - obviously not via5 SYSGEN since constraining each user to speak the same & language seems a little Draconian ...)   Antonio    --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 13:02:01 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ; Subject: Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? 3 Message-ID: <GCC57b8McTrJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <0kndovofbt9gdq1n5lj6ne8qpsqdmqpgej@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: E > On 7 Oct 2003 08:08:49 -0700, svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) wrote:  > F >>> This is all news to me.  Our normal config would be as few LUNs asN >>> possible, with as many disk spindles in the group as possible.  Regardless >>> of the OS. >>D >>This is not the "best" way to do things.  Other OSes have built-inH >>throttling mechanisms which regulate the number of pending IO requestsA >>per LUN.  For example, Windows or Tru64 have a "queue depth" of 4 >>something like 32.  Don't quote me on that number. >>C >>If you have one LUN (on an EVA) served to a Windows box, and that E >>Windows box has 32 pending IO request to that LUN, it will wait for F >>one of the IOs to complete before it issues the next IO to that LUN. > M > You're assuming a queue will be backed up.  With 168 spindles servicing the M > requests, this is rarely an issue.  And, if you're monitoring approirately, K > you'll be aware of the possibility in enough time to obtain more spindles / > to add to the group to alleviate the problem.  >   A 	I was turned around the other day and Bill helped.  So hopefully  	I'm closer this time...  @ 	You can create queues on purpose or accidently.  If you were toC 	dispatch 25000 random IO requests to 168 drives in the space of 1  G 	second, there will be pending or outstanding IO requests as a standard B 	15K drive will service 120 or so Random IOs without queue lengths 	(pending IO).  > 	Likewise, with a tool you can create queue lengths or pending 	IO on purpose.  For instance:    O I/O Request Queue Length                   CUR        AVE        MIN        MAX   O $1$DGA002:    (NODE1)  SITE_META1         0.00       0.00       0.00       0.00 O $1$DGA006:    (NODE1)  SITE_META2         4.00       4.00       4.00       4.00 O $1$DGA110:    (NODE1)  SITE_META1         0.33       0.06       0.00       0.33 O $1$DGA112:    (NODE1)  UNUSED             0.00       0.00       0.00       0.00 O $1$DGA1016:   (NODE1)  ALPHASYS           0.00       0.00       0.00       0.00   H 	In that interval above, I ran a tool, started a monitor and you can see) 	average , min and max queue length is 4.     	IO measurement looks like this:  G $  iot /count=6000 /pattern=random/queue=4/size=2 $1$dga006:/show=histo   N _$1$DGA006: (DGX00 DG)  6000 xfer,    24.110 sec,248.9 xfer/sec,    249 Kb/sec8   0 min,  70 max,  10 median,  10 mode, 11 Mean, 10.3 SD0    0:  1860 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX?   10:  2607 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX    20:   984 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX    30:   377 XXXXXXXX   40:   126 XXX 
   50:    29 X 
   60:    13 X 
   70:     4 X     @ 	Here is IO measurement with a queue length of 1 (one sustained  	pending or outstanding IO):  N _$1$DGA006: (DGX00 DG)  6000 xfer,    65.770 sec, 91.2 xfer/sec,     91 Kb/sec6   0 min, 110 max,  10 median,   0 mode, 5 Mean, 5.8 SD?    0:  2960 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX =   10:  2840 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX    20:   188 XXXX
   30:    11 X    40:     0    50:     0    60:     0    70:     0    80:     0    90:     0   100:     0 
  110:     1 X     = 	With queue length of 1 (and other traffic) I'm doing 91 IOPS ? 	above.  We should see 110 or so and have data on that same LUN ; 	when very light activity (system and storage system wide).   F $ iot /count=4000 /pattern=random/queue=1/size=2 $1$dga006:/show=histoN _$1$DGA006: (DGX00 DG)  4000 xfer,    35.940 sec,111.3 xfer/sec,    111 Kb/sec6   0 min, 130 max,   0 median,   0 mode, 3 Mean, 6.0 SD?    0:  2905 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     10:  1085 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  : 	BTW, queue depth of 1 is the default.  Send an IO out and> 	wait for it to come back.  Send 4 IOs out, and and as soon as> 	1 comes back, send another so there is always 4 IOs out there 	waiting to come back.  ; 	I'd expect that raising and lowering queue (within reason, 9 	say 4, 16, 32, 64) lengths on EVA would result in higher @ 	throughput with average response time staying very good.  Would( 	be cool to see when things flatten out.   > L > I'd still like to see some empirical measurements of one LUN vs many LUNs. > : > But the idea is still to have as few groups as possible. >    	Any takers on testing an EVA?   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:17:03 GMT 3 From: Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> ; Subject: Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? 8 Message-ID: <ed4eovcl011lfe4v6v3s905kfb6i1t3c92@4ax.com>  D On 10 Oct 2003 13:02:01 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:    < >	I'd expect that raising and lowering queue (within reason,: >	say 4, 16, 32, 64) lengths on EVA would result in higherA >	throughput with average response time staying very good.  Would ) >	be cool to see when things flatten out.  :  >  >	Any takers on testing an EVA?    Good work.    ) As a starting point, you might look here: f http://www.storageperformance.org/Results/SPC-1/HP-EVA2C12D_2002-12-06/hp_EVA2C12D_FDR_2002-12-06A.pdf  H It is a little old (the benchmark was done over a year ago), but it will* give you an idea of the performance curve.     Robert Klute Cupertino Solution Center  Hewlett-Packard Company  ----- 6 The opinions are those of the poster, not the company.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 10:54:27 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) ; Subject: folks you are going to have to forgive my spelling = Message-ID: <857e9e41.0310100954.4334acfd@posting.google.com>   C some people are good at it, some people are bad at it.  I am bad at F it.  Mark Twain once said that he did not give a damn for a person who1 could spell the same word twice.  My kind of guy.    sue    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 21:25:31 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)H Subject: Forget the OSU job ... they are going to AIX ... sad, isn't it?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310102025.58af619f@posting.google.com>   5 this is a response I got from OSU when asking them on 5 their plans for VMS ... sad when you replace the best  with a mess ...   	 > Robert,  > F > Thank you for your interest in this position and I apologize for notI having gotten back to you sooner as I have been out ill a good portion of L this week.  With respect to the future of VMS in our environment, long term,# we will likely migrate to other pla I > tforms, with AIX being the most likely.  We have actually already moved D one system (Kronos - our timekeeping system) from VMS to the iSeriesL (AS/400) platform.  As I am sure you are aware, the reality is that with DEC$ having changed hands twice in recentE > years, support is not up to the standard it once was.  Perhaps this K contributed to the bigger issue, which is that many application vendors are G moving away from offering their products on VMS - this was the issue we  faced with Kronos. > K > Hopefully, this answers your question.  I do foresee VMS continuing as an K integral part in our environment for at least the next several years, and I J will agree that, if nothing else, it is the most resilient OS we have.  If you remain interested in this A > position, please reply back with a copy of your current resume.  > 
 > Regards, >  > Scott  >  > 
 > Scott Rubin * > The Ohio State University Medical Center# > Department of Information Systems ' > Sr. Systems Manager, Midrange Systems  > Rubin-1@MedCtr.Ohio-State.edu    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:52:18 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>8 Subject: Re: HGFTP - how to troubleshoot data connection) Message-ID: <CKGhb.1732$Pe5.331@edtnps84>    Andy Bustamante wrote::   L > I would venture that NAT on the outgoing data connection is not preservingI > port 20. If this is for a home network I'd recommend on of the internet M > gateways (SMC, Netgear, Linksys, 3Comm . . .).  Or you can download a patch N > for your system from www.redhat.com.  I run Linux on an older AMD for my DSL
 > gateway.  I I found that clients CAN connect to my HGFTP server, but only if they're  G using Active mode and don't have a firewall on their end.  I'd like to  H support Passive mode connections, but I don't see anything in the HGFTP F docs that would suggest it supports Passive mode.  I also checked the F docs for the FTP server in TCPIP Services for OpenVMS and didn't find  anything in there either.   F Does anyone know if either of these servers DOES support Passive mode " connections, and how to enable it?   Regards,   Alder    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:10:45 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk8 Subject: Re: HGFTP - how to troubleshoot data connection) Message-ID: <bm7hq4$it4$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   T In article <CKGhb.1732$Pe5.331@edtnps84>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes: >Andy Bustamante wrote:: > M >> I would venture that NAT on the outgoing data connection is not preserving J >> port 20. If this is for a home network I'd recommend on of the internetN >> gateways (SMC, Netgear, Linksys, 3Comm . . .).  Or you can download a patchO >> for your system from www.redhat.com.  I run Linux on an older AMD for my DSL  >> gateway.  > J >I found that clients CAN connect to my HGFTP server, but only if they're H >using Active mode and don't have a firewall on their end.  I'd like to I >support Passive mode connections, but I don't see anything in the HGFTP  G >docs that would suggest it supports Passive mode.  I also checked the  G >docs for the FTP server in TCPIP Services for OpenVMS and didn't find   >anything in there either. > G >Does anyone know if either of these servers DOES support Passive mode  # >connections, and how to enable it?  >   F Don't need to do anything special to the DEC TPIP services ftp server.. The client just needs to request passive mode.     Alpha2:tcpip show ver   ?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2 4   on a AlphaServer 2100 5/300 running OpenVMS V7.3-1     Alpha2:ftp alpha2 8 220 alpha2.AXP.MDX.AC.UK FTP Server (Version 5.3) Ready. Connected to alpha2. Name (alpha2:david20):( 331 Username david20 requires a Password	 Password:  230 User logged in.  FTP> passive _ON|OFF|AUTO|ALL: on Passive is ON.  " (you can also use the "VMS syntax"   SET PASSIVE ON   )   ) HELP in FTP describes the various options    FTP  FTP> help set passive    SET   	   PASSIVE   ?        Controls whether the FTP client or server initiates data         connections.           DCL Format             SET PASSIVE  keyword           UNIX Format            passive  keyword         %     Additional information available:        Parameters Example   SET PASSIVE Subtopic? par    SET   	   PASSIVE        Parameters      
       keyword   G          The FTP client program starts with the value AUTO. All keyword J          comparisons are done without regard for typographical case (case-          blind).            o  ALL                Does nothing.             o  AUTO  I             The FTP client uses the version of network protocol in use on J             the control connection to determine how the data connection isJ             initiated. If the network protocol is IPv4, FTP client behavesH             as though SET PASSIVE OFF had been specified. If the networkI             protocol is IPv6, FTP client behaves as though SET PASSIVE ON              had been specified.             o  OFF   9             The FTP server initiates the data connection.             o  ON  G             The FTP client initiates the data connection. This is often I             useful when a network firewall exists on the path between the I             client and the server and prevents the FTP server from making !             outbound connections.       
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University          	 >Regards,  >  >Alder >    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 11:43:58 -07002 From: hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com (Cheryl Hoefelmeyer)C Subject: How to determine if an exe was generated by a given source = Message-ID: <72a72e76.0310101043.4ca78160@posting.google.com>    Hi, all,C Is there any simple way to determine if an executable was generated  from a given source code?    Thanks,  Cheryl   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:21:10 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)G Subject: Re: How to determine if an exe was generated by a given source . Message-ID: <bm74bm$21p$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com (Cheryl Hoefelmeyer) writes in article <72a72e76.0310101043.4ca78160@posting.google.com> dated 10 Oct 2003 11:43:58 -0700:D >Is there any simple way to determine if an executable was generated >from a given source code?  K It's damn hard.  You can compile it a second time, and use ANALYZE/IMAGE on E the old and new .EXE files, but you can pick up differences caused by E differing versions of compilers and libraries even when the source is 
 identical.  F If it was compiled and linked with /DEBUG info, the image contains theD filename (including the version number).  But version numbers can be changed.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:34:38 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) G Subject: Re: How to determine if an exe was generated by a given source 2 Message-ID: <yJEhb.6837$qf5.6137@news.cpqcorp.net>  r In article <72a72e76.0310101043.4ca78160@posting.google.com>, hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com (Cheryl Hoefelmeyer) writes:  D :Is there any simple way to determine if an executable was generated :from a given source code?  C   Nope -- well assuming you didn't already maintain that elsewhere, C   either by maintaining the image link date and time or maintaining %   the resulting images for the build.   C   It's certainly often possible to make a reasonable guess, but (in F   cases of non-trivial source) it's usually not a simple determinationC   -- the closer you can get to rebuilding the image using the exact F   environment, the closer you can get to determining the actual sourceC   code used.  And if you know of a particularly volatile routine in F   the source pool, for instance, you can look for its resulting object   code within the image.  F   OpenVMS generally recommends keeping source listings and maps aroundG   for each released build and archiving kits, and for just this sort of F   reasoning.  We also archive the compilers and the tools used for theE   build, since these too can obviously effect the resulting images -- G   and this allows us a way to rebuild and to ECO our existing releases. G   (Having the listings and maps also allows a traceback to be decoded.)   C   You can also use techniques to help you support the code when you C   build the images, such as the build baselevels you see reflected  D   throughout OpenVMS.  The OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 build used the buildE   identification X9E9, so a careful examination will show that string !   attached within various images.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:58:35 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> G Subject: Re: How to determine if an exe was generated by a given source 3 Message-ID: <3F8755BB.C07ADD9A@applied-synergy.com>    Cheryl Hoefelmeyer wrote:  > 
 > Hi, all,E > Is there any simple way to determine if an executable was generated  > from a given source code?   E Sure, compile and link it again using the same environment (compiler, 4 linker, VMS) and see if you get the same executable.  D Since the link time is stored in the executable, the header will notC match.  However, CHECKSUM/IMAGE can be used to get checksums of the E important bits (which do not include the link time) and can provide a - good idea of whether or not you have a match.   
 Good luck!  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:54:53 +0100  From: Alan <alan@nospam.com>- Subject: HP/COMPAQ DEGPA-TA 1000BaseT/Gigabit 4 Message-ID: <bm76b2$gr7$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   This is a long shot...  ; Is there anyway to get a DEGPA-TA 1000BaseT/Gigabit network  card working with a:-   ; DIGITAL Server 3000 Model 3300 6400A running OpenVMS V7.2-1   : I know it's a white-box but it does have a 64-bit PCI slot> and I've upgraded the SRM to 5.8 (latest for AlphaServer 800).  < The SRM console doesn't see it, so anything else I try to do< doesn't work. The SYS$EW1000A DEGPA driver is on the system  but I can't get it to work.    Is this hopeless?    Alan     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:09:14 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 1 Subject: Re: HP/COMPAQ DEGPA-TA 1000BaseT/Gigabit 2 Message-ID: <e6Ghb.6849$zD5.2563@news.cpqcorp.net>  S In article <bm76b2$gr7$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, Alan <alan@nospam.com> writes:  : < :Is there anyway to get a DEGPA-TA 1000BaseT/Gigabit networkB :card working with... DIGITAL Server 3000 Model 3300 6400A runningA :OpenVMS V7.2-1 ... and I've upgraded the SRM to 5.8 (latest for   :AlphaServer 800). : " :The SRM console doesn't see it...  F   Per the posted AlphaServer 800 options list, there is no support forF   the DEGPA gigabit Ethernet (GbE) on that series under OpenVMS Alpha.  . http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/options/N http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/options/as800/as800_%20%20-degpa-ta.html  H   Given you have the most current SRM firmware loaded and cannot see theH   DEGPA from the console, I think you already know the answer -- I will G   also assume that you already know that the DIGITAL Server 3000 series ?   and the "whiteboxes" in general are not supported by OpenVMS.   G   Where the SRM console reports the DEGPA device as available up to the F   host, then OpenVMS V7.2-1 and ECOs should be the minimum version for   the controller.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 21:40:18 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)! Subject: If HP had any brains ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310102040.4a84b939@posting.google.com>   < now that VMS has coe functionality, they would save a ton of; money by forgetting the tur64 to hp unix port and just port = everything to OpenVMS itanium ... like I said if they had any 
 brains ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:36:43 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Info about HP' Message-ID: <3F875EAB.229A02A9@fsi.net>    Dave Gudewicz wrote: > M > Sounds like they doing all they can to please Wall Street while at the same K > time not pleasing an important part of their customer base..  Also sounds G > like their long range planning = about 3 months.  Welcome to the 21st 
 > century? > C > Perhaps its no surprise their fiscal year ends on Halloween.  ;-)   H Hhmmm... Lots of room cracks about vampires, bats, the living dead, evil
 magic, ...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:39:04 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Install Problem' Message-ID: <3F875F38.4253E47B@fsi.net>    Barry in Indy wrote: > A > Has any one run into a problem using INSTALL? We did an INSTALL A > REPLACE for a module, and when we tried to bring up the system, ? > we got an "image not found" message, even though the previous = > version of the executable showed up in a directory listing. @ > Running INSTALL REPLACE with the LOG option gave us no output. > A > We finally tried doing an INSTALL DELETE followed by an INSTALL  > ADD, and that worked!  >  > Any ideas?   First guess time:   E The image may be located via a logical name that's not defined at the 0 time you're trying to INSTALL it in SYSTARTUP_*.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 21:02:16 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: It's now or perhaps never for a VMS comeback!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310102002.175154eb@posting.google.com>   0 is Carly smart enough to take advantage of this?- It is now or perhaps never for a final chance . for the best os in the world to reclaim number one ...     ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12033     1 p.s. Andrew, read the middle of the article about  current cert counts ... :)  ' here it is in case you can find it ...    C "These enhancements will also be of interest to many Unix and Linux D sites which would like to move to the famed reliability and securityF of OpenVMS. The Secunia web site that reports security vulnerabilities@ lists four for OpenVMS v7 thus far this year versus nine for theE latest version of AIX, about 35 for the latest Solaris and the latest F HP-UX and at least 56 for the latest Redhat Linux. These are the kindsF of figures that CIOs cannot easily ignore now that security has become so important."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:29:37 +0200 - From: Marc Van Dyck <marc.vandyck@brutele.be> + Subject: Re: Job Scheduler - cross platform 9 Message-ID: <mesnews.54cd7d3a.5276930e.88.584@brutele.be>   & "John Brandon" a formul ce mercredi :M > I am looking around for a Job Scheduler for VMS, UNIX, Tru-64, Win/xx, and   > LINUX. > 5 > Does anyone have such (or similiar) implementation?  >  >  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com  ) There is also Dollar Universe, by Orsyp : 5 see http://www.orsyp.com/software_dollar_universe.asp . Their page mentions 27 supported platforms ...   Marc.      --  
 Marc Van Dyck    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:19:49 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG( Subject: Laptop, Reflections, delete key0 Message-ID: <00A272FC.BA36DA2C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  D Argh!  I have to use a CRAPTOP and it has Reflections.  I can TELNETC to my systems but I can't seem to figure out how to make the delete ) key send a delete instead of a backspace.   D I've looked at the keymap stuff and I think I have it setup to map aB PeeCee delete to the VT keyboard delete but it still doesn't work.  
 Any pointers?   E FWIW, this exercise only goes to enforce my disdain for these loathe- E some piece of shit toys.  I have diddled about with this cybertoy and E its playwarez for hours and still can't do a simple character delete.     --  L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:46:31 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> , Subject: Re: Laptop, Reflections, delete key' Message-ID: <3F8760F7.92951D0C@fsi.net>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > F > Argh!  I have to use a CRAPTOP and it has Reflections.  I can TELNETE > to my systems but I can't seem to figure out how to make the delete + > key send a delete instead of a backspace.t > F > I've looked at the keymap stuff and I think I have it setup to map aD > PeeCee delete to the VT keyboard delete but it still doesn't work. >  > Any pointers?s > G > FWIW, this exercise only goes to enforce my disdain for these loathe-aG > some piece of shit toys.  I have diddled about with this cybertoy andeG > its playwarez for hours and still can't do a simple character delete.j  G Depending what version of WRQ Reflection (singular), Setup -> Terminal,eG click the Keyboard tab, select the radio button that says "VT Backspace H sends" (*)Delete. Then, click <OK> and save your settings (File -> Save) at some appropriate point.   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:20:50 GMTG" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG" Subject: Re: Leaper Colony meeting0 Message-ID: <00A272D2.EFF8D3CF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <857e9e41.0310100924.50183344@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:pD >Looks like we have a quorum for a leaper colony meeting at the bootD >camp.  If any of you are interested here is an older picture of theD >leaper colony on VAXman's web site .http://www.tmesis.com/pix/ lookG >for DECUS Geeks.  Folks, Steve S. is going to be there as well (new to  >the colony in Atlanta).  = I have just added a directory to http://www.tmesis.com/pix/  r  2 It is http://www.tmesis.com/pix/GAGGLE_OF_GEEKS/    F You'll find pix several people.  Many of the names you will recognize E from here in comp.os.vms.  Some of these pix are of usual and unusualo members of the "Leper Colony".   Enjoy...  E If you're going to be at the Bootcamp, be forewarned!  You too may bei- added to my "Gaggle of Geeks" pix collection.a -- vL VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            s5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" s   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 21:42:05 -0700, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)G Subject: ppp on OpenVMS AlphaServer hardware port for remote gui access = Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0310102042.379fef70@posting.google.com>b   Problem:F We need help in configuring a PPP TCP/IP connection so that developers can runeD a Windows-based database GUI browser through a modem connection to a TTA0:a' or TTB0: port on an OpenVMS AlphaServer-/ if it is possible and you have already done it.2     Background:m. When a database is on a remote Windows server:?  - developers currently can use Microsoft DialUp Networking (no  endorsement)'  to connect to the Windows server, thent  F  - run Quest Software's Toad (unintentional plug) gui database browser software8  to make a connection to the remote database on Windows.    % When a database is on an AlphaServer:t<  - developers only have a modem connection to an AlphaServer TTA0:/TTB0: port    for interactive loginsr=  - developers are limited to the SQL*Plus command line promptsC  - developers want to use a GUI database browser such as Quest Toadd    	 Strategy:oA We have software running on an OpenVMS AlphaServer acting as hostt usinghE Compaq TCP/IP Services (UCX) for OpenVMS Alpha v5.1 and v5.3 ECO 2 on- OpenVMS.  8 The Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Management manual/ section 3.2.1.3 Setting Up an Asynchronous PortcC specifically suggests   SET TERMINAL TTA0:   as part of a solution;n  D but we have not yet been able to get an end-to-end solution to work.E The manual intermixes sections for OpenVMS hosts with OpenVMS clients C and does not supply explicit modem AT commands (if any are needed.)M    1 From an earlier posting on this forum we learned: C   - if we want to run PPP through a terminal server, then we shouldh install       a PPP-aware terminal server.  F   - if we use a PPP-aware terminal server, then the dialup can be made:     to look just like any Windows dialup networking setup.  D We have some sites that do not need (nor want footprint space for) aE terminal server. For such sites we would like to establish direct PPPtB dialin without having to purchase an additional PPP-aware terminal@ server.  We would like to be able to use one of the direct Alpha2 hardware ports  TTA0: or TTB0: - for PPP dialins.  F Is that possible without having to add additional hardware? After all,@ Windows servers support dialup networking out of the box without= having to add any hardware beyond possibly an external modem.t  A We are asking the OpenVMS forum for any guidance that members can- offer.> Even if you feel that you can provide only a partial solution,: your contribution could be very helpful to get us started.  A In particular, the following would be helpful from OpenVMS system>F managers who have established successful PPP connections to an OpenVMS host using TTA0/TTB0 ports:   E  * specific modem models and matching AT commands for those models to . store into the modem's NVRAM for the PPP line.  C  * specific "one time" or background OpenVMS and UCX/TCPIP commandsh! used to set up the PPP machinery.e@    That should support the possibility of just using the OpenVMSC system essentially as a dialup router to make TCP/IP connections to , other hosts on the OpenVMS Server's network.  E  * does the port have to be dedicated to PPP purposes only, or can ita beE    converted into a PPP session after logging onto the AlphaServer as  a normal    interactive user?  @  * commands that would be typed into the initial DCL interactive3 session to convert it into a PPP TCP/IP connection.R  C  * sample Windows scripts that could be used to automate the dialinp1 for Windows users unfamilair with OpenVMS or DCL.Q  D  * we have some developers who are familiar only with Windows DialupF Networking and not with OpenVMS or DCL.  The ideal PPP dialin would beD configurable such that, to an end Windows user, the PPP dialin wouldF just appear as just as an additional Dialup Networking Windows entry. A We would provide supporting scripts to facilitate based upon yours help.s    C (Please try to only copy the section "problem" from this posting ini; your response so that most of your posting will contain newn information. Thank you.)   Thank you in advance.    JimStrehlow@Data911.coma Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:46:58 +0200-" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>B Subject: The VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Letter, Vol. 1 Number 1.4 Message-ID: <3f87530c$0$27025$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  6 http://www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdf (English, 8 pages)  0 Feedback welcome: mailto:didiermorandi@nerim.net Danke schn:	 Thank you  Merci.   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:05:03 GMTD# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)v Subject: Re: TSM on Alpham2 Message-ID: <zpDhb.6825$qf5.5666@news.cpqcorp.net>  p In article <OF76EB39E1.1A05D094-ON85256DBA.0052851E-85256DBA.0052E0B1@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:     re:E  6 :              Terminal Server Manager Version V2.1-07    D   The OpenVMS Freeware V6.0 kit will the three most current updates B   for the unsupported TSM package that I am aware of, which (IIRC)   includes updates 7, 8, and 9.   E   This Freeware V6.0 kit will ship with OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 and will C   be available on the Freeware website around the same time as thatdA   release ships -- shipment is scheduled for sometime during thistD   current quarter.  (And no, I'm not presently in a position where IE   cam offer to provide or to serve early copies of this kit.  Sorry.)e  F   Depending on the particular DECserver or terminal server, the ownersF   of the DECserver product line, Digital Network Products Group (DNPG;H   www.dnpg.com) may (will?) have a newer (and probably also a supported)F   terminal server management interface.  (As I am quite sure folks are?   aware, TSM itself is retired and is not a supported product.)s    lN  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq-N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comp   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:27:51 +0100 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>r Subject: Re: TSM on Alphaa< Message-ID: <DnGhb.323$IA.247@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   Joseph Huber wrote: A > And it always works, because the circuits are always  CSMACD-n,i% > independent of hardware interfaces.t  @ Not entirely independent, since my recollection is that the FDDI; ones are FDDI-n (quite reasonable really, since FDDI is not  Collision Sense ... etc.).  B Similarly, the various synch adapters had different default names C (DSV-0, DSW-0 etc.) and you could MOP load stuff over some of them eH (although quite *why* you would choose to do that is a different issue).  : I never saw a Token Ring adapter under DECnet Phase V so I( have no idea what those might be called.   Antonio    --   ---------------n- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:57:56 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>. Subject: Re: TSM on Alphan: Message-ID: <UPGhb.13152$fP6.415346@news20.bellglobal.com>  ) <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message K news:OF76EB39E1.1A05D094-ON85256DBA.0052851E-85256DBA.0052E0B1@metso.com...r  / >You did not say what version you have running. G >I use the following, and from the release notes, you should be able tomD >handle it. (I have EWA-x on this AS1200 so I did not need to go the >logical name definition.I  L Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I thought I was using versionI 2.1-07 but I was only using version 2.1. It turns out that the "07" patchaI installation was being "rolled back" when one of the installation optionsu failed.t  	 * * * * *h  : * Do you want to run the IVP after the installation [YES]?F * Does this product have an authorization key registered and loaded? yD * Do you want service enabled in the installation procedure [YES]? y   Enabling SERVICE on FWA-0...6 %NCP-W-INVIDE, Invalid identification format , Circuit' %SYSTEM-F-IVDEVNAM, invalid device name C %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of TSMECO07 V2.1 has failed.U  	 * * * * *    Going back and answering no to:D * Do you want service enabled in the installation procedure [YES]? n  J allows the installation to complete which gives me the new manual with theH logical name you mentioned. This is a real catch-22 situation. I guess II should have first used VMSINSTAL to just install the patch documentation,=7 read it, defined the logical, then installed the patch.x  K p.s. I should have known that OpenVMS engineering would not have released a  shoddy software to the public.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/X   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:33:02 +0100 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> 2 Subject: Re: Vax / VMS V5.5-2 External Drive Issue; Message-ID: <usGhb.328$IA.17@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>    GWDVMS::MOELLER wrote:  4 > Trouble with the ROM patches (these plus those to 5 > allow for boot disks > 1 GB) is, that there are so  3 > many ROM versions around ... it'd be much simplerX2 > to just distribute some known working ROM image. > 2 > In the past, I refrained from "publishing" ROMs ' > due to DEC's copyright. Any opinions?   H Try submitting all the patches and the corresponding patched latest ROM E images to Hoff for inclusion on the Freeware CD (obviously declaring eE exactly what you are doing). This way people who want to retain theirlC existing image can use your patch and those who want to jump to the - "latest-and-greatest" image can just upgrade.h  0 Either they get published or they don't and your question is answered!1   Antonio    --   ---------------n- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgX   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:25:15 GMTX# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 2 Subject: Re: Vax / VMS V5.5-2 External Drive Issue2 Message-ID: <vdHhb.6860$kI5.3550@news.cpqcorp.net>  g In article <usGhb.328$IA.17@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>, Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> writes:d :GWDVMS::MOELLER wrote:e :n5 :> Trouble with the ROM patches (these plus those to h6 :> allow for boot disks > 1 GB) is, that there are so 4 :> many ROM versions around ... it'd be much simpler3 :> to just distribute some known working ROM image.a :> e3 :> In the past, I refrained from "publishing" ROMs t( :> due to DEC's copyright. Any opinions? : I :Try submitting all the patches and the corresponding patched latest ROM -F :images to Hoff for inclusion on the Freeware CD (obviously declaring F :exactly what you are doing). This way people who want to retain theirD :existing image can use your patch and those who want to jump to the. :"latest-and-greatest" image can just upgrade. :sG :Either they get published or they don't and your question is answered!q  G   I'll answer the question right here, at least from my own perspectivei+   as the Collector of the OpenVMS Freeware.   H   I can put Wolfgang Moeller in contact with one of the folks within theJ   appropriate hardware management team (via email, of course), but I'm notJ   in a position to offer any help in this area (due to the other tasks andJ   other work pending), I can't commit the time of the VAX management folksI   to this effort, and I obviously cannot unilaterally clear this or other I   similarly-encumbered submissions for release onto the OpenVMS Freeware.a  I   This case involves both the product management team with responsibility.H   for the old VAX ROM code-base, and the services folks -- as there is aF   small but non-zero risk these ROM images might cause service-relatedE   problems, and might lead to service calls or confusion or problems.4      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com@   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 21:29:30 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)J Subject: Wake-up call for Carly Fiorina!  Either top IBM or sink with sun!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310102029.79630d51@posting.google.com>   : now or never Carly ... it is either number one over IBM or6 down and done along with sun ... which one will it be?    ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12033   	 > Robert,a >bF > Thank you for your interest in this position and I apologize for notI having gotten back to you sooner as I have been out ill a good portion of L this week.  With respect to the future of VMS in our environment, long term,# we will likely migrate to other plasI > tforms, with AIX being the most likely.  We have actually already movedeD one system (Kronos - our timekeeping system) from VMS to the iSeriesL (AS/400) platform.  As I am sure you are aware, the reality is that with DEC$ having changed hands twice in recentE > years, support is not up to the standard it once was.  Perhaps thiscK contributed to the bigger issue, which is that many application vendors are G moving away from offering their products on VMS - this was the issue we  faced with Kronos. >aK > Hopefully, this answers your question.  I do foresee VMS continuing as aniK integral part in our environment for at least the next several years, and IiJ will agree that, if nothing else, it is the most resilient OS we have.  If you remain interested in thisuA > position, please reply back with a copy of your current resume.n >m
 > Regards, >  > Scottt >  >a
 > Scott Rubiny* > The Ohio State University Medical Center# > Department of Information Systemse' > Sr. Systems Manager, Midrange Systemsl > Rubin-1@MedCtr.Ohio-State.edu    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2003 15:32:39 -0700% From: a.greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)B. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?= Message-ID: <af3b9b31.0310101432.111c3432@posting.google.com>I  s "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<ebghb.6704$E04.4489@news.cpqcorp.net>...u  I > Drawing conclusions about V8.0 performance to the production release innN > 2004, would be like using Alpha V1.0 Beta as a characterization of Alpha VMS > performance.  , Which was actuallly pretty good as I recall. ---a
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:43 -0400e) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>u Subject: Re: Zigi :-)v: Message-ID: <Q4Ghb.13076$fP6.413847@news20.bellglobal.com>   Oops! Sorry about this. L Oktoberfest begins today in Kitchener/Waterloo and this message was meant toJ go to an email buddy!. I must have sent it using the Outlook Express "news reader".  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/a  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message4 news:ssvhb.12808$fP6.376037@news20.bellglobal.com... > Zigi Zagi  > Zigi Zagie
 > Hoy Hoy Hoy5 >1 > :-)8 > Neil >PN > p.s. it's the time of year for all square heads to come alive. I wonder what" > that Harry Himburg guy is up to? >e >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:50:10 +1000n From: bah@bit.bucket (BAH) Subject: Re: Zigi :-)n0 Message-ID: <slrnboehdh.60.bah@plague.bogus.com>  M On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:07:43 -0400, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> Wrote :  >Oops! Sorry about this.M >Oktoberfest begins today in Kitchener/Waterloo and this message was meant tovK >go to an email buddy!. I must have sent it using the Outlook Express "newse	 >reader".c  B I thought it was some sort of odd reference to Telstra (in Oz)....> http://www.telstra.com.au/newsroom/photo.htm?tR=2at#switkowski     -- v  
 BAH Humbug   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.563 ************************