1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 14 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 570       Contents:0 Re: Anyone interested in a media player for VMS?$ Re: anyone running 7.3-1 with 64 MB?$ Re: anyone running 7.3-1 with 64 MB?$ Re: anyone running 7.3-1 with 64 MB? Binary to Ascii files  Re: Binary to Ascii files  Re: Binary to Ascii files  Re: Binary to Ascii files 3 Re: Convert C file descriptor to VMS channel number % Re: ITRC Download site - some answers % Re: ITRC Download site - some answers % Re: ITRC Download site - some answers % Re: ITRC Download site - some answers 
 ITRC Reminder  Re: ODBTP on VMS ?) Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer ) Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer  PLI land is unreachable  Re: PLI land is unreachable  RE: PLI land is unreachable  Re: PMGC-B card on DEC3000/M600  Port-forwarding FTP & Re: Slow Shadow Copy with 36 GB drives& Re: Slow Shadow Copy with 36 GB drives+ Re: submitting a VMS batch job from Windows + Re: submitting a VMS batch job from Windows + Re: submitting a VMS batch job from Windows  Re: TCPIP anti-spam mechanismsE RE: RE: TCPIP anti-spam mechanisms (was: Latest VMS Critical Upgrade) - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well - Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well = Re: The VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Letter, Vol. 1 Number 1. ) Re: VMS decc FreeTDS compilation question % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? 8 Re: White paper: CHARON-VAX cluster w/ shared SCSI disks8 Re: White paper: CHARON-VAX cluster w/ shared SCSI disks= [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium A Re: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium A Re: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium A RE: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium A Re: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:59:03 GMT + From: "P.Lj" <plj@MAROONbyron.ext.telia.se> 9 Subject: Re: Anyone interested in a media player for VMS? @ Message-ID: <Xns94146FBCD2219plj69byronextteliase@195.67.237.53>  C Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote in news:3f8aa17e$1  @cpns1.saic.com:  I > I have ported mplayer (the media player for Linux systems) to VMS.  It  G > is capable of playing a wide-range of audio/video formats, including  G > acting as a DVD player.  Unfortunately, most of the optimizations in   the J > code assume a GNU C compiler and an Intel/AMD hardware platform.  There G > are only a handful of Alpha optimizations.  The result is video that  $ > plays too slowly, even on my DS10. > G > Right now I am looking at finding all of the code that was optimized   for F > MMX and writeing a version optimized for Alpha.  I was wondering if C > there was anyone out there willing to lend a hand with this.  My  I > understanding of the Alpha instruction set is sufficient to read crash  H > dumps but doesn't really extend to a knowledge of instruction latency  or  C > scheduling.  (I do have a copy of the Alpha Architecture manual).  > C > I've also discovered that Motif V1.3 includes a Direct-Rendering  I > extension.  Can anyone point me to any info on how to make use of this?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Mark Berryman  > J > P.S.  If there are any Motif for VMS maintainers reading this, it would H > be really helpful if VMS supported the Xv extension.  This appears to  be  G > how Linux on Alpha is able to get such good performance with mplayer  E > since, among other things, it eliminates the need for a YUV to RGB  
 > conversion.  >  >   % Sure, always interested in VMS-ports.     	 >>> ^P.Lj    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2003 01:25 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) - Subject: Re: anyone running 7.3-1 with 64 MB? - Message-ID: <14OCT200301255321@gerg.tamu.edu>   T helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes...H }I have an ALPHAstation 255/233 with 64 MB at 7.2-1.  I plan to upgrade I }to 7.3-1 soon, possibly this weekend.  Is anyone actually running 7.3-1  ' }with just 64 MB?  Is it even possible?   J I'm not, but anyhow... It's possible, but I expect that you won't get muchI from the improved disk caching as you don't have much memory to spare for L it. Various other things will eat up small amounts of memory here and there, making that even tighter.   C }Note that I am not just running core VMS, but also DECwindows.  In   G DECwindows is a hog (X windows in general is, and Motif doesn't make it F any smaller). Right now on this system (at 7.2-1 with 256MB of memory)I the DECW$SERVER_0, DECW$TE_C35E, DTSESSION, and DTWM are using a combined E total of around 40 MB of memory. Quite a bit, and it doesn't even add = in the memory for the actual processes for the two DECterms.    D }addition, the machine is running the OSU server, has 7 SCSI devicesE }attached, some of them shadowed (with devices on the same controller H }(there is only one on the machine) or with other disks in the cluster)  }and is in a cluster.  } I }Performance now is acceptable, though it could be better of course.  (I  @ }haven't analysed things to see where the real bottlenecks are.) } H }I understand that 7.3-1 has many performance improvements.  So, things I }might actually get better.  On the other hand, perhaps I need more than  ( }64 MB to actually take advantage of it.  F The new disk caching, at least, will probably need more memory to get  much advantages from it.  I }A related question---is there ever any reason at all not to put as much  I }memory into the machine as possible?  (I think I can put 8 128-MB SIMMs  
 }in the 255.)   ' The only thing I can think of is cost.    9 Even just another 64MB could give noticable improvements.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:29:43 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>- Subject: Re: anyone running 7.3-1 with 64 MB? 9 Message-ID: <bmh27o$mvisj$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   F On 2003-10-14 00:52, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote:  H > In article <yeBib.6920$9e1.771@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff > Hoffman) writes:   > K >> :I have an ALPHAstation 255/233 with 64 MB at 7.2-1.  I plan to upgrade  L >> :to 7.3-1 soon, possibly this weekend.  Is anyone actually running 7.3-1 * >> :with just 64 MB?  Is it even possible? >>  D >>   The SPD has the official supported minimum memory requirements. > 0 > Does anyone have a valid, direct link offhand?  F Try starting at <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/swcat/> (Software Catalog).   > [...]  > H > Plus: 2 instead of 4 files per patch (no checksum and just one format B > for the readme).  Mailing list (digest or individual) for patch 6                                             ^^^^^^^^^^   That would be news to me.   = > notifications.  Minus: 7.3 and 7.3-1 in the same directory.  >  > [...]  > K > I've spent a lot of money (for a hobbyist) on hardware recently.  I WILL  I > give a good home to fast machines which consume little power!  :-)  On  >                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^K > the other hand, most of what I do doesn't need that many resources.  I'm    > more concerned with stability.  A Has VMS been ported to the (Strong)ARM architecture recently? ;-)    > [...]  > I > I did think twice when entering an email address for signing up to the  I > patch stuff.  I remember someone mentioned on comp.os.vms a while back  J > that he started getting spam to an address he had only used for private G > correspondence with DEC/Compaq/HP.  I hope that doesn't happen to me.    It didn't happen to me by now.   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:37:36 -0700 1 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@NelsonUSA.com> - Subject: Re: anyone running 7.3-1 with 64 MB? , Message-ID: <3F8C3460.7010605@NelsonUSA.com>   Phillip Helbig--- wrote:  I > I did think twice when entering an email address for signing up to the  I > patch stuff.  I remember someone mentioned on comp.os.vms a while back  J > that he started getting spam to an address he had only used for private G > correspondence with DEC/Compaq/HP.  I hope that doesn't happen to me.   E I was also one of the spam victims.   It was all for HP PC stuff, and G in HTML -- not very readable in VMS Mail.   It was all coming from HP's  spam contractor, surecom.com.   3 All my efforts to get off the list were for naught:   , I have tried all the usual steps to stop it:  0   1. Replying with "REMOVE" in the subject line.  7   2. Using a browser to go to the HP "Profile" web site 	      and:   '      A. Unclicking all preference boxes :      B. Changing the e-mail address to a non-existant one.  %   3. Sending the spam to abuse@hp.com   :   4. Sending the spam to abuse@cw.net (surecom's upstream)  A Finally, Sue was kind enough to forward my complaint to the right A people inside HP.   It's only been a week now, so I don't know if  it has stopped.   I am hopeful.   < Now I create unique addresses whenever I do business with HP (or any other company).    Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:52:42 +0100 & From: "Phil Howes" <howesp@logica.com> Subject: Binary to Ascii files2 Message-ID: <1066143163.96678@ernani.logica.co.uk>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3926B.341986F0  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    Hi, H I've got a bit of a problem with some text files that get FTP'd to our =H site.  An external supplier sends a text file in binary form to us for =F automatic processing. The file comes back to us all on one line.  We =J used to use Ascii files, and the text was spread out over several lines, =G as we want it. However, the external server owners have made a change = J that now requires them to send Binary files.  Any idea how I can convert =G a one line text binary file into a multi line text file simply?  I've = J tried a few of the 'set file/attribute=3D(rfm:xxx) commands, but nothing =9 seems to work. Is this possible without writing a script?  Thanks,  Phil+ ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3926B.341986F0  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4916.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>J <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,<BR>I've got a bit of a problem with = some text=20J files that get FTP'd to our site.&nbsp;&nbsp;An external supplier sends=20J a&nbsp;text file in binary form to us for automatic processing. The file = comes=20G back to us all on one line.&nbsp; We used to use Ascii files, and the =  text was=20 E spread out over several lines, as we want it. However, the external = 	 server=20 D owners have made a change that now requires&nbsp;them&nbsp;to send =	 Binary=20 J files.&nbsp; Any idea how I can convert a one line text binary file into =
 a multi=20A line&nbsp;text file simply?&nbsp; I've tried a few of the 'set=20 I file/attribute=3D(rfm:xxx) commands, but nothing seems to work. Is this =  possible=20 1 without writing a script?<BR>Thanks,</FONT></DIV> @ <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Phil</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3926B.341986F0--    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:10:02 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>" Subject: Re: Binary to Ascii files, Message-ID: <bmh3kb$12m6@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  [ >Any idea how I can convert a one line text binary file into a multi line text file simply? ] > I've tried a few of  the 'set file/attribute=(rfm:xxx) commands, but nothing seems to work. , > Is this possible without writing a script?  S Without knowing what the line delimiters are in the original file it's hard to say. V rfm:stmlf is often what you need (from e.g. Unix). If that doesn't work try using DUMPB on the file to see how the line endings look on the source system.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:57:45 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)" Subject: Re: Binary to Ascii files. Message-ID: <bmh9u9$lci$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Phil Howes" <howesp@logica.com> writes in article <1066143163.96678@ernani.logica.co.uk> dated Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:52:42 +0100:- >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ) Yuck!  Reformatted in plaintext-only now.   I >I've got a bit of a problem with some text files that get FTP'd to our = I >site.  An external supplier sends a text file in binary form to us for = G >automatic processing. The file comes back to us all on one line.  We = K >used to use Ascii files, and the text was spread out over several lines, = H >as we want it. However, the external server owners have made a change =K >that now requires them to send Binary files.  Any idea how I can convert = H >a one line text binary file into a multi line text file simply?  I've =K >tried a few of the 'set file/attribute=3D(rfm:xxx) commands, but nothing = : >seems to work. Is this possible without writing a script?  F Using the SunOS 5.8 ftp client and the Compaq tcp/ip 5.3 ftp server, II transferred a text file in binary mode, and it came out in the TPU editor 9 all on one line as you said.  Then I executed the command   *     $ set file filename.ext /att=rfm=stmlf  L And TPU read it just fine.  What kind of app are you using to read the file?F Did you try stmlf?  If you still need help, please specify what OS andL version the file is coming from, and what tcp/ip stack (and version) you are using on the VMS side.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:44:48 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> " Subject: Re: Binary to Ascii files' Message-ID: <3F8C2800.BA608D0E@aaa.com>   / DUMP a few blocks of the file. That should show  you how the file is organized.  9 Q: Is the file a "text file" at all at the sending side ? / Q: What platform are the sending side running ?   6 There must be *something* in the file to point out the, end of a line, if not it's going to be hard.  : I'v most of time solved this kind of "problems" by talking6 to the "other side"... The DUMP output could also help/ you sugesting changes to the file organization.   	 Jan-Erik.       > Phil Howes wrote:  >  > Hi, H > I've got a bit of a problem with some text files that get FTP'd to ourH > site.  An external supplier sends a text file in binary form to us forF > automatic processing. The file comes back to us all on one line.  WeC > used to use Ascii files, and the text was spread out over several G > lines, as we want it. However, the external server owners have made a E > change that now requires them to send Binary files.  Any idea how I E > can convert a one line text binary file into a multi line text file @ > simply?  I've tried a few of the 'set file/attribute=(rfm:xxx)G > commands, but nothing seems to work. Is this possible without writing  > a script? 	 > Thanks,  > Phil   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 03 10:42:30 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com < Subject: Re: Convert C file descriptor to VMS channel number( Message-ID: <qnFbR7sKoCMP@cpva.saic.com>  ' In article <3f86c4a8$1@cpns1.saic.com>, 3  Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes: H > I am in the process of making a program written for Unix available on G > VMS.  As part of this, I need to write the VMS version of some IOCTL  I > calls.  I'm not allowed to touch what the Unix code hands me (which is  I > an Integer File Descriptor from an open call), nor would modifying the  G > open call be practical since it is all the calls to IOCTL that would  - > need to change, not the result of the open.  > C > On Unix, all IOCTL functions use a file descriptor.  On VMS, the  J > functions I need to issue are QIO based and need a channel number.  How 1 > can I find the channel associcated with the FD?  >  > Mark Berryman  > I > P.S.  DECC$GET_SDC is not a viable answer.  That only works on sockets  H > and I am working with other types of devices (e.g., CDROM, DVD, etc.). >   < I haven't tested any of this but it may work for you Mark...  B From the FD you can get the FAB, check out the following URL (it'sF wrapped so you'll have to paste the lines together) where David MurphyE provides an example of how to locate all the RMS blocks given a C FD.     http://groups.google.com/groups?8 hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=dpm.867095187%40access4  B Then, given the FAB you can check the value stored in FAB$L_STV. AH successful $CREATE or a $OPEN will store the IO channel number here. So,C if the CRTL is using these RMS services and the values haven't been D disturbed you should find the channel number there. Hope this helps.   --   - Jim    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:17:59 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com. Subject: Re: ITRC Download site - some answersQ Message-ID: <OF02A360C6.EDF985A8-ON85256DBF.004888CE-85256DBF.0048B3E7@metso.com>   J Well, I got this this morning, so the old site is not completely disabled.  Can we expect only modificationsH to be sent, or will newly released kit notifications occur, albeit a bit' later than at the new site, every time?   I [Is this a miracle cure, a resurrection, or are we dealing with vampirism  ;-)  ?]    -Norm   A From:  system PRIVILEGED account <root@stage1.cxo.cpqcorp.net> on         10/14/2003 06:30 AM  ( Please respond to ECO-Queries@compaq.com  E To:    "OpenVMS Patch Mailing List" <openvms@list.support.compaq.com>  cc:   F Subject:    OpenVMS VMS73_MEM_CHAN-V0200 Alpha V7.3 Memory Channel ECO        Summary    O *******************************************************************************    *  * < *                  This is an update to an existing patch... *  *  *  *  Online links can be found at  *  * c http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_mem_chan-v0200--4.README   O *******************************************************************************       I TITLE: OpenVMS VMS73_MEM_CHAN-V0200 Alpha V7.3 Memory Channel ECO Summary      New Kit Date:       22-SEP-2003  Modification Date:  14-OCT-2003 G Modification Type:  Kit released with corrected dependency information.   F Copyright (c) Hewlett-Packard Company 2002,2003.  All rights reserved.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:45:54 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com. Subject: Re: ITRC Download site - some answersQ Message-ID: <OF6E0833E5.7DBDE6AE-ON85256DBF.004FA376-85256DBF.0050C07C@metso.com>    Yes, they should read:  9 AXP_DNVOSIECO02V0703-1.PCI-DXC_AXPEXE  10/10/2003 08:37am 9 AXP_DNVOSIECO02V0703-1.txt             10/10/2003 08:37am 9 AXP_DNVOSIECO02V0703.PCI-DXC_AXPEXE    10/10/2003 08:37am 9 AXP_DVNOSIECO02V0703.txt               10/10/2003 08:37am    Which begs the question:  C If this is an OpenVMS Alpha patch Digest, and those are [DECnet V5] - Alpha ECO's should not they be in the Digest?     K From:  Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com>@domain.omitted on 10/14/2003         03:00 AM   # Sent by:    RECHTMAN@domain.omitted      To:    norm.raphael@metso.com  cc:   1 Subject:    Re: ITRC Download site - some answers      norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > 6 > Digest Name:  weekly Open VMS Alpha 7.X patch digest, >     Created:  Sun Oct 12  9:06:17 EDT 2003 >  > Table of Contents: >  > Document ID      Title > ---------------  -----------< > VMS73_F11X-V0200  F11X Facility Kit For OpenVMS Alpha V7.3= > VMS731_TTDRVR-V0100  TTDRVR Facility Kit for OpenVMS V7.3-1 D > VMS731_SYSLOA-V0100  CLUSTER Facility Patch Kit for OpenVMS V7.3-1? > VMS722_F11X-V0200  F11X Facility Kit for OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 > > VMS73_ACRTL-V0600  ACRTL Facility kit for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3H > VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0400  Fibre Channel / SCSI Facility Kit for OpenVMS > Alpha V7.3-1C > VMS731_F11X-V0200  F11X Facility ECO kit for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 A > VMS731_DCL-V0400  DCL Facility ECO kit for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1  > 0 > Does not list these which are on the FTP site. > 9 > AXP_DOSIECO02V0703-1.PCI-DXC_AXPEXE  10/10/2003 08:37am 9 > AXP_DOSIECO02V0703-1.txt             10/10/2003 08:37am 9 > AXP_DOSIECO02V0703.PCI-DXC_AXPEXE    10/10/2003 08:37am 9 > AXP_DOSIECO02V0703.txt               10/10/2003 08:37am    Yes, they should read:  9 AXP_DNVOSIECO02V0703-1.PCI-DXC_AXPEXE  10/10/2003 08:37am 9 AXP_DNVOSIECO02V0703-1.txt             10/10/2003 08:37am 9 AXP_DNVOSIECO02V0703.PCI-DXC_AXPEXE    10/10/2003 08:37am 9 AXP_DVNOSIECO02V0703.txt               10/10/2003 08:37am    Which begs the question:  C If this is an OpenVMS Alpha patch Digest, and those are [DECnet V5] - Alpha ECO's should not they be in the Digest?    > & > Does the merit concern or attention?   - + Are you sure thats not AXP_DNVOSIECO0x... ? @ whch are DECnet V ECOs.  I did'nt see anything starting AXP_DOS.0 (or maybe there was a naming error on the site.)   Mike - E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* D Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:48:45 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>. Subject: Re: ITRC Download site - some answers2 Message-ID: <bmh2db$209$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: L > Well, I got this this morning, so the old site is not completely disabled." > Can we expect only modificationsJ > to be sent, or will newly released kit notifications occur, albeit a bit) > later than at the new site, every time?  > K > [Is this a miracle cure, a resurrection, or are we dealing with vampirism 	 > ;-)  ?]   P No, I received the answer that the patches are still added, but with a delay of 
 several days.      >  > -Norm  > C > From:  system PRIVILEGED account <root@stage1.cxo.cpqcorp.net> on  >        10/14/2003 06:30 AM > * > Please respond to ECO-Queries@compaq.com > G > To:    "OpenVMS Patch Mailing List" <openvms@list.support.compaq.com>  > cc:  > H > Subject:    OpenVMS VMS73_MEM_CHAN-V0200 Alpha V7.3 Memory Channel ECO >        Summary >  > Q > *******************************************************************************  >  > *  > * > > *                  This is an update to an existing patch... > *  > *  > * ! > *  Online links can be found at  > *  > * e > http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_mem_chan-v0200--4.README  > Q > *******************************************************************************  >  >  > K > TITLE: OpenVMS VMS73_MEM_CHAN-V0200 Alpha V7.3 Memory Channel ECO Summary  >  > ! > New Kit Date:       22-SEP-2003 ! > Modification Date:  14-OCT-2003 I > Modification Type:  Kit released with corrected dependency information.  > H > Copyright (c) Hewlett-Packard Company 2002,2003.  All rights reserved. >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:25:19 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com. Subject: Re: ITRC Download site - some answersQ Message-ID: <OF0BD747A4.90E47381-ON85256DBF.0059DB12-85256DBF.0059DA91@metso.com>   K Yes, but the surprise was that the email notifications resumed, since I did  not get any for the fiveJ ECO's that were new for V7.3-1 in this weekend's digest email from the new site.  Maybe they will+ be along as well, with a delay, as you say. K Also I read that 10/31/2003 is the cutoff for the old site, which will then  be redirected to the ITRC G site, so I guess this is a reprieve of sorts, but progress will have to  wait a bit.   6 From:  Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> on 10/14/2003 10:48 AM  * Please respond to Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   1 Subject:    Re: ITRC Download site - some answers      norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: B > Well, I got this this morning, so the old site is not completely	 disabled. " > Can we expect only modificationsJ > to be sent, or will newly released kit notifications occur, albeit a bit) > later than at the new site, every time?  > K > [Is this a miracle cure, a resurrection, or are we dealing with vampirism 	 > ;-)  ?]   F No, I received the answer that the patches are still added, but with a delay of
 several days.      >  > -Norm  > C > From:  system PRIVILEGED account <root@stage1.cxo.cpqcorp.net> on  >        10/14/2003 06:30 AM > * > Please respond to ECO-Queries@compaq.com > G > To:    "OpenVMS Patch Mailing List" <openvms@list.support.compaq.com>  > cc:  > H > Subject:    OpenVMS VMS73_MEM_CHAN-V0200 Alpha V7.3 Memory Channel ECO >        Summary >  >  > O *******************************************************************************    >  > *  > * > > *                  This is an update to an existing patch... > *  > *  > * ! > *  Online links can be found at  > *  > *  > c http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_mem_chan-v0200--4.README    >  > O *******************************************************************************    >  >  > K > TITLE: OpenVMS VMS73_MEM_CHAN-V0200 Alpha V7.3 Memory Channel ECO Summary  >  > ! > New Kit Date:       22-SEP-2003 ! > Modification Date:  14-OCT-2003 I > Modification Type:  Kit released with corrected dependency information.  > H > Copyright (c) Hewlett-Packard Company 2002,2003.  All rights reserved. >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:29:52 GMT 2 From: "George Pagliarulo" <georgepag@adelphia.net> Subject: ITRC Reminder2 Message-ID: <QDUib.6990$0t2.6014@news.cpqcorp.net>  K I want  to remind everyone that they should be pulling patches from the new I (for VMS)  ITRC patch download site.  URLs are :   http://www.itrc.hp.com B                             ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/  L The old site will remain active and continue to be updated until October 31,K 2003.  After that, users that go to the old site will be re-directed to the J new site.   If you haven't already familiarized yourself with the new ITRCJ site, I suggest you do it soon.  Referring to the ITRC FAQ that was posted- earlier in this conference will help greatly.    George Pagliarulo  ECO Release Process  OpenVMS Sustaining Engineering george.pagliarulo@hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2003 01:36:16 -0700. From: dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (Dieter  Ro?bach) Subject: Re: ODBTP on VMS ? = Message-ID: <e1d40caf.0310140036.6a507e6d@posting.google.com>   
 Thank you,  C I downloaded it, there are VMS build procedures (they need a little C work: SAY i not defined) and C 6.5 is required if you don't want to C chance a lot of compile statements, but that is all. build is easy, E and it runs out of the box. I can see that CSWS_PHP and unixODBC will 1 do, but this requires another weekend of testing.      Regards    Dieter   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2003 06:59:34 -0700, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)2 Subject: Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0310140559.5673ad1e@posting.google.com>   . "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> wroteA > I am wondering if it is now ok to covert ODS-2 volumes to ODS-5   F If you have an Oracle database, Oracle only supports ODS-5 with Oracle RDBMS version 9.2 or higher.= All previous Oracle RDBMS Server versions only support ODS-2.    Jim Strehlow, Data911 ! OpenVMS and Oracle Systems Admin.  Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:46:57 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>2 Subject: Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer2 Message-ID: <bmh29v$1p7$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Jim Strehlow wrote: 0 > "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> wrote > A >>I am wondering if it is now ok to covert ODS-2 volumes to ODS-5  >  > H > If you have an Oracle database, Oracle only supports ODS-5 with Oracle > RDBMS version 9.2 or higher.? > All previous Oracle RDBMS Server versions only support ODS-2.   F I suppose that means that these Oracle versions don't support the new N functionality of ODS-5. With that restriction in mind, I don't see any reason 2 why Oracle should have problems with a ODS-5 disk.     >  > Jim Strehlow, Data911 # > OpenVMS and Oracle Systems Admin.  > Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:24:16 +0200 " From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com>  Subject: PLI land is unreachable& Message-ID: <3F8C0710.32CD2C48@hp.com>  F Have anyone else encountered problems sending mail to tom@kednos.com ?( Every message I send keep bouncing back.   Guy    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:26:28 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>$ Subject: Re: PLI land is unreachable4 Message-ID: <3f8c0799$0$20153$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  7 I got a reply from him with this address two hours ago. A Maybe he is experimenting a deny of service from his Customers...  LOL    D.   Guy Peleg wrote:  H > Have anyone else encountered problems sending mail to tom@kednos.com ?* > Every message I send keep bouncing back.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:44:45 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: RE: PLI land is unreachable9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEPHIDAA.tom@kednos.com>   G Sorry Guy, I guess my spam filters I was playing with were a little too  aggressive.  Try now.    Tom    >-----Original Message----- * >From: Guy Peleg [mailto:guy.peleg@hp.com]( >Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 7:24 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: PLI land is unreachable  >  > G >Have anyone else encountered problems sending mail to tom@kednos.com ? ) >Every message I send keep bouncing back.  >  >Guy >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:59:49 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: PMGC-B card on DEC3000/M6002 Message-ID: <9YVib.6998$oz2.5578@news.cpqcorp.net>  B "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote in messageF news:rdeininger-1310032108260001@user-uinj0g2.dialup.mindspring.com...> > In article <d28306e.0310121621.3226d511@posting.google.com>,- > denny.rich@swagelok.com (Denny Rich) wrote:  > 	 > >Hello, D > >I have a Sandpiper (DEC3000/M600) with a PMAGC-B Turbochannel I/OH > >card, and a VRT19-HA monitor.  The card is running firmware V1.2, and% > >the Sandpiper is running VMS7.3-1.  > 5 > That is the latest version of FW for the card, BTW.  > A > As Bart pointed out, the Open3D kit contains the device driver.  > H > On my V7.3 system, I also have a version of SYS$GVADRIVER.EXE that wasF > clearly (from the date and the image ident) built and/or kitted withK > OpenVMS V7.3.  I can't tell at the moment whether the Open3D installation I > procedure linked the driver, or it's lurking somewhere in the V7.3 kit.   E There was always a issue of where the driver was built.  Some devices K shipped with a 2D version with the OS (like the SFB) plus a 3D version with?J Open3D.  Some built the drivers on VMS, but delivered the DDX with Open3D. It was a mess.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2003 16:41:21 GMT6 From: DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) Subject: Port-forwarding FTP: Message-ID: <bmh8vh$dqd$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   	We are now running...  ?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2e3   on a AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.2-2   I We only recently upgraded from TCPIP v5.1 and OpenVMS 7.2-1.  We are alson  running David Jones' SSH server.  A 	Until the upgrade, I had been establishing FTP sessions with ournG server that had the control channel port-forwarded via SSH and the datalK channel was left to pass packets in the clear via a passive connection.  On L the remote (client) side, I've been using CYGWIN's SSH implementation, whichF is basically a port of OpenSSH.  The FTP client would be configured toF establish passive transfer with the server and the SSH client would be! invoked with something like this:j  :                       ssh -L 21:<server-IP>:21 <server-IP>  G Now, the command connection still manages to connect, but my FTP clienteL (WS_FTP) now reports the following problem after I connect, in response to a! directory listing (LIST) request:d  4 425 Disallowing data connection for <client-IP>,4523  N (4523 is the randomly assigned client-side data port.)  A direct connection to3 our FTP server is completely successful, as always.d  D 	Researching port-forwarding FTP in general, I discovered that newerI FTP servers may not allow the above scenario to work.  In particular, theaJ FTP server checks to see what the source of the control connection is, andM if it's different from the address specified as the client's data connection,NL the server denies the request.  This would seem to describe the behavior I'mI seeing.  In particular, since the control connection is forwarded via thebL server's IP address ("<server-IP>"), this is the address that the FTP serverK sees as the control connection source address, not "<client-IP>".  As such, H the FTP server denies the data request.  If this is what's happening, isF there any way to work around this restriction, apart from using either "direct FTP" or SCP/SFTP?:   Thanks,e Mike --K              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSE9N   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingJ            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityJ http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2003 07:11:56 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)/ Subject: Re: Slow Shadow Copy with 36 GB drivesp= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310140611.4cffe7ff@posting.google.com>   Z "Jim" <jim.gould@uwmf.wisc.edu> wrote in message news:<blkfd7$1hh$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>...L > I have HP support stumped on this one so I thought someone here could help > me.o > M > We recently upgraded a pair of HSJ40 controllers to firmware version V37J-1eN > so that we could replace our aging 2GB and 4GB drives with new 36 GB drives.H > We are running VMS 6.2 and applied the latest shadowing patch (ALPSHAD	 > 14_62.)o > M > Note:  We can't upgrade to a new version of VMS without paying our software) > vendor huge $$$. > H > Everything works fine except that shadow copies take about 24 hours toN > complete.  Other drives, such as 9 GB drives take about 2 hours to complete. > L > Is this an inherent problem with VMS 6.2 and large drives or is there some! > tweak that we missed somewhere?V > L > Help would be appreciated since we need to keep this ancient monster alive > for another year :  )r >  > Sincerely, >  > Jim Gouldg  C must be your controllers ... we have a 36 gb shadow set running on  7 an alphaserver 800 w/o controller and it runs great ...>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:37:20 -0500 % From: "Jim" <jim.gould@uwmf.wisc.edu> / Subject: Re: Slow Shadow Copy with 36 GB drives - Message-ID: <bmhc8r$e5e$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>   L Thanks for the tips.  I got an answer from HP support.  Under VMS 6.2 if youA have two members of a shadowset with preferred paths on differentnJ controllers the shadow copy will always do a full copy not a differential.J Once I switched the shadow members to the same controller my shadow copiesI went from 24 hours to 2 hours.  The humorous part of this is that we have K had some of our smaller drives setup incorrectly for years. Always wonderedh* why some of them took so long to copy.....    5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0310140611.4cffe7ff@posting.google.com...E2 > "Jim" <jim.gould@uwmf.wisc.edu> wrote in message) news:<blkfd7$1hh$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>... I > > I have HP support stumped on this one so I thought someone here couldC help > > me.  > >TH > > We recently upgraded a pair of HSJ40 controllers to firmware version V37J-1H > > so that we could replace our aging 2GB and 4GB drives with new 36 GB drives.aJ > > We are running VMS 6.2 and applied the latest shadowing patch (ALPSHAD > > 14_62.)e > >dF > > Note:  We can't upgrade to a new version of VMS without paying our software > > vendor huge $$$. > >uJ > > Everything works fine except that shadow copies take about 24 hours toF > > complete.  Other drives, such as 9 GB drives take about 2 hours to	 complete.b > >nI > > Is this an inherent problem with VMS 6.2 and large drives or is there  some# > > tweak that we missed somewhere?O > > H > > Help would be appreciated since we need to keep this ancient monster alive  > > for another year :  )l > >  > > Sincerely, > >r
 > > Jim Gould  >uD > must be your controllers ... we have a 36 gb shadow set running on9 > an alphaserver 800 w/o controller and it runs great ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:44:00 +0200t: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>4 Subject: Re: submitting a VMS batch job from Windows+ Message-ID: <bmg2f2$hs4@doiweb4.wob.vw.vwg>   
 Martin wrote:0L > Hi.  We've begun implementation of Windows based client applications but aN > lot of our batch processes remain on VMS.  I need a way to submit batch jobsK > on VMS from the new clients.  My initial thought was to create a VMS .comcL > file on the client containing the submit details, ftp that to a secure VMSL > user account whose login.com implememted a wait for X seconds to allow ftpL > to complete then used the generated .com file to submit the batch job with: > the specified parameters passed from the Windows client. > & > Is there a better method that this ? >  > Tiay > Martin >  > T We have done it nearly the same way: create the Com-file using a pathworks share and` then starting with an RSH/REXEC call. Perhaps you should consider a scheduling product like e.g.2 JAMS (http://jams.argent-software.com/index.html).   --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regards     Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de - mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.dea   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2003 07:14:05 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org4 Subject: Re: submitting a VMS batch job from Windows3 Message-ID: <jzpqZivKYxHV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3f8b2057$0$65594$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>, "Martin" <w_orbit@hotmail.com> writes:L > Hi.  We've begun implementation of Windows based client applications but aN > lot of our batch processes remain on VMS.  I need a way to submit batch jobsK > on VMS from the new clients.  My initial thought was to create a VMS .comrL > file on the client containing the submit details, ftp that to a secure VMSL > user account whose login.com implememted a wait for X seconds to allow ftpL > to complete then used the generated .com file to submit the batch job with: > the specified parameters passed from the Windows client.  : You could use RSH.  RSH client comes bundled with Windows.  ? If you're running Multinet, a scripted ftp can do the job also:@   ftp> put my_batch_file.com- ftp> quote site spawn @my_batch_file p1 p2 p3c	 ftp> exit7   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:12:54 +0200 4 From: "Christian J. Bauer" <c.bauer@mc-lindinger.de>4 Subject: Re: submitting a VMS batch job from Windows- Message-ID: <03101415125403.00679@transpluto>i  3 Am Dienstag, 14. Oktober 2003 00:00 schrieb Martin:i  J > Hi.  We've begun implementation of Windows based client applications bu= t a I > lot of our batch processes remain on VMS.  I need a way to submit batchaJ > jobs on VMS from the new clients.  My initial thought was to create a V= MSJ > .com file on the client containing the submit details, ftp that to a se= cureJ > VMS user account whose login.com implememted a wait for X seconds to al= lowwJ > ftp to complete then used the generated .com file to submit the batch j= ob? > with the specified parameters passed from the Windows client.o  I we did that in the past, but due to obvious reasons (what happens if 2=20cJ Clients will submit commands, error handling ...) we changed that to a di= rect=20tI telnet connection to the host with an ActiveX control. So no "special"=20sJ handling on the VMS host was neccessary. One note: this *COULD* be a secu= rity=20pF hole ... But i'll assume you will not connect to a privileged account.    " Freundliche Gr=FC=DFe/Kind regards Christian J. BauerJ -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --J MC Lindinger GmbH =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=  =A0 http://www.mc-lindinger.deB   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:10:22 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>' Subject: Re: TCPIP anti-spam mechanisms30 Message-ID: <00A275BB.76252291.13@tachysoft.com>  K >Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM (198.151.12.104) by moe.tachysoft.com (MX V5.3t5 >          AnHm) with SMTP for <wayne@tachysoft.com>;r* >          Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:50:25 -0500$ >From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsO >Subject: RE: RE: TCPIP anti-spam mechanisms (was: Latest VMS Critical Upgrade) : >Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEPDIDAA.tom@kednos.com>& >Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 05:39:59 -0700. >Organization: Info-VAX<==>comp.os.vms Gateway$ >X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List >Lines: 103   >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit/ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"i >MIME-Version: 1.0( >Reply-To: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> >X-Gateway-From: mvb.saic.comt >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > J >You indicated you are filtering based on content-type, but what do you do >with the likes of >t8 >From: "Security Center" <edchekykv@confidence.msdn.com>A >To: "Commercial Customer" <customer_xrlcsni@confidence.msdn.com>T >Subject: Latest Upgrade >MIME-Version: 1.0< >Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="xrcpqzoupnegtlwzq"    M True, the text/html gag only works if the message is entirely html.  The scan - for text/html in the body has to trap that.  t  O But that last bullshit billy virus, which the above appears to be, is very easyb7 to filter because there are all kinds of trigger words.a         --- 
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 Rule ID: 1792t     Header: To: *@*.msdn.com*u4     Added: 21-SEP-2003 19:20:00.20, never referenced ---i     Wayne?O ===============================================================================fN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O ===============================================================================aH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 05:39:59 -0700d# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>iN Subject: RE: RE: TCPIP anti-spam mechanisms (was: Latest VMS Critical Upgrade)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEPDIDAA.tom@kednos.com>3  I You indicated you are filtering based on content-type, but what do you do  with the likes of   7 From: "Security Center" <edchekykv@confidence.msdn.com> @ To: "Commercial Customer" <customer_xrlcsni@confidence.msdn.com> Subject: Latest Upgradeh MIME-Version: 1.0"; Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="xrcpqzoupnegtlwzq"i   >-----Original Message-----t0 >From: Wayne Sewell [mailto:wayne@tachysoft.com]' >Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 5:00 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >Subject: Re: RE: TCPIP anti-spam mechanisms (was: Latest VMS Critical	 >Upgrade)  >p >o% >>From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a >>X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms L >>Subject: RE: TCPIP anti-spam mechanisms (was: Latest VMS Critical Upgrade); >>Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENPIDAA.tom@kednos.com>d' >>Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:40:11 -0700 / >>Organization: Info-VAX<==>comp.os.vms Gatewayl% >>X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List  >>Lines: 74e! >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>MIME-Version: 1.0 ) >>Reply-To: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>i >>X-Gateway-From: mvb.saic.com >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi >>L >>The problem with that rule, at least for me, is that I get legitimate mail6 >>in html format (including from HP pertaining to VMS) >> >I >hJ >Not a problem.  I can still get mail from hp even with the rule in place. >- >--- >Rule ID: 1707 >    Sender: *@HP.COMP/ >    Accept messages with these characteristicsCA >    Added:  4-SEP-2003 22:04:06.65, Ref count: 8, Last ref date:s >23-SEP-2003 >13:58:48.91 >--- >f >The command to do this is:M >  >add rej/accept=as_is *@hp.com >m >r >s@ >In MX, all address-based rules override all header-based rules, >because if the.B >address is rejected (or accepted in this case), the header is not >seen by the >server at all.u >w > J >I have very few legitmate correspondents with text/html in the header (asJ >opposed to the body).  It's trivial to make an accept rule for each.  TheG >unwashed of the internet, i.e. the spammers, continue to be blocked if G >text/html appears in the headers, while valid users cruise on through., >e >  >u >>>n >>>Rule ID: 1146& >>>    Header: Content-Type: text/htmlE >>>    Added: 13-MAR-2003 17:57:54.12, Ref count: 262, Last ref date:B >>>11-OCT-2003 >>>01:40:24.22 >>>--- >>>i >>>Rule ID: 1196' >>>    Header: Content-Type: text/html*iE >>>    Added: 29-MAR-2003 19:07:32.15, Ref count: 162, Last ref date:' >>>12-OCT-2003 >>>00:57:51.61 >>>--- >>>MD >===================================================================
 >============ 9 >Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738p >wayne@tachysoft.com9 >http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.htmlpD >===================================================================
 >============4I >Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."c2 >   Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!" >b >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003- >- ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:08:51 +0200i- From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>s6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well8 Message-ID: <bmg7e4$m7dpf$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>   Alan Frisbie wrote: = > If you have not checked out The Uptimes Project lately, youo > might like to: > 3 >      http://uptimes.wonko.com/stats.php?op=activeL  C Please note that this URL can go away anytime. The new bookmarkable & URL is http://uptimes.hostingwired.com   cu,    Martin  C P.S.: Sorry to spoil the average with my three systems. There was a B planned power outage of 90 minutes that the UPS's couldn't handle. --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:11:21 +0100*O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well0 Message-ID: <bmgejp$1n8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   John Vottero wrote:D7 > "Alan Frisbie" <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> wrote in message ( > news:3F8AF21F.8010104@NelsonUSA.com... > = >>If you have not checked out The Uptimes Project lately, you  >>might like to: >>3 >>     http://uptimes.wonko.com/stats.php?op=active  >>: >>VMS currently holds three of the top five positions, and; >>five of the top 20.   (OK, I'm simply proud of being ableF >>to keep it up 672 days.   :-)  >>: >>If anyone knows the project manager or engineers for the: >>AlphaServer 1000A, please tell them that all five of the0 >>top VMS systems are AlphaServer 1000A systems. >>8 >>It is also amusing to note that the average uptime for2 >>Windows systems is just slightly over four days. >  > H > And that includes the obvious hacks.  There's a Windows XP system thatN > claims it's been up for over 11,000 days.  I wonder which is harder, keeping9 > Windows up for that long or getting it to boot in 1972!: >  >  >    There are other anomaliestB Linux 2.4.20 running for 650 days, 2.4.20 was released 24 Nov 2002   Regards  Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2003 12:29:41 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well9 Message-ID: <bmgq7k$mpif6$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>-  0 In article <bmgejp$1n8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,R 	Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > John Vottero wrote:U >> FI >> And that includes the obvious hacks.  There's a Windows XP system thattO >> claims it's been up for over 11,000 days.  I wonder which is harder, keepingl: >> Windows up for that long or getting it to boot in 1972! >  > There are other anomalies7D > Linux 2.4.20 running for 650 days, 2.4.20 was released 24 Nov 2002  ? Which is why I place no value whatsoever on the concept.  I can.= think of people here who are not above fudging the numbers in C order to sell their point of view.  Like the mythical Irish RailwayID VAX that supposedly ran for 15 years without any change of hardware,D software or even maintenance that required it to power down.  I loveI the VAX, but even it's hardware (disks in particular) is not that robust.7   bill   -- PJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:43:12 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>c6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well' Message-ID: <3F8BEF60.87DC02EC@aaa.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ! > Like the mythical Irish RailwayaF > VAX that supposedly ran for 15 years without any change of hardware,> > software or even maintenance that required it to power down.  E I understod that they stayed in service, *even with* hardware changes B (incl VAX->Alpha), OS upgrades and any other required maintenance.: It's the service level to the *users* that counts, right ?  	 Jan-Erik.t   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2003 13:17:09 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well9 Message-ID: <bmgt0l$mog1o$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>5  ' In article <3F8BEF60.87DC02EC@aaa.com>, ) 	Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> writes:- > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>  " >> Like the mythical Irish RailwayG >> VAX that supposedly ran for 15 years without any change of hardware,e? >> software or even maintenance that required it to power down.p > G > I understod that they stayed in service, *even with* hardware changesoD > (incl VAX->Alpha), OS upgrades and any other required maintenance.< > It's the service level to the *users* that counts, right ? >   F No, that was discussed here and the contention always was "The machineI stayed up that long." It turned out, in fact, to be more than one machineeH of which one was always up.  Using that criteria, I have "a unix system"I that has been up for over a decade.  Unix can do "rolling upgrades" too. tE And even Windows Server (running "high availability clusters") can beeH made to keep one system up all the time, if you have enough systems. :-)  E The simple point is that the information is easily faked.  And, to be L honest, it is also meaningless.  As you said, "service level to the *users*"D is all that really counts and like it or not, VMS is not the only OSC that provides that.  Oh yeah, and I was fairly certain there was notC VAX->Alpha migration.  I was led to believe that they were not onlyuF still running VAXen but also a very old (and thus very stable) version0 of VMS [note the deliberate lack of "Open". :-)]   bill   -- *J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:15:43 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well0 Message-ID: <bmgsu0$6pq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote:R > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >=20! >>Like the mythical Irish Railway3F >>VAX that supposedly ran for 15 years without any change of hardware,> >>software or even maintenance that required it to power down. >=20 >=20G > I understod that they stayed in service, *even with* hardware changes D > (incl VAX->Alpha), OS upgrades and any other required maintenance.< > It's the service level to the *users* that counts, right ? >=20 > Jan-Erik.i    3 Well it depends what you mean by stayed in service.i  9 Most people consider uptime to be the time since the lastb reboot or failure.  9 Quite how the owner of the offending Linux box managed tot5 sneek in an upgrade from their older version of LinuxC8 to 2.4.20 without a reboot is a question that the owners7 of the uptime list would do well to address since it ish9 impossible to upgrade a Linux box without rebooting. Thisd is also true for OpenVMS.d   Regards  Andrew Harrisonw   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2003 09:32:10 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well3 Message-ID: <UpxCWVcFxDxV@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <3F8BEF60.87DC02EC@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:e > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> e" >> Like the mythical Irish RailwayG >> VAX that supposedly ran for 15 years without any change of hardware,o? >> software or even maintenance that required it to power down.m > G > I understod that they stayed in service, *even with* hardware changesCD > (incl VAX->Alpha), OS upgrades and any other required maintenance.< > It's the service level to the *users* that counts, right ?  I No, it was reportedly a VAX 11-750 that never shut down (running VMS V3). H While many disks fail, not _all_ disks fail.  Those with large shops whoJ encounter regular disk failures do not even claim that _every_ disk fails,< just that _too_many_ fail (independent of operating system).   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2003 09:33:05 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well3 Message-ID: <0vK8V6M9eGdn@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  d In article <bmgt0l$mog1o$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:) > In article <3F8BEF60.87DC02EC@aaa.com>, + > 	Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> writes:- >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:c >>> # >>> Like the mythical Irish RailwayuH >>> VAX that supposedly ran for 15 years without any change of hardware,@ >>> software or even maintenance that required it to power down. >> sH >> I understod that they stayed in service, *even with* hardware changesE >> (incl VAX->Alpha), OS upgrades and any other required maintenance.t= >> It's the service level to the *users* that counts, right ?n >> v > H > No, that was discussed here and the contention always was "The machineK > stayed up that long." It turned out, in fact, to be more than one machiner > of which one was always up.   K I would like to see the citation for that post, so I can better understand.a   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2003 15:26:00 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well9 Message-ID: <bmh4i8$n3cts$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>7  3 In article <UpxCWVcFxDxV@eisner.encompasserve.org>,j0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:e > In article <3F8BEF60.87DC02EC@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>> # >>> Like the mythical Irish Railway H >>> VAX that supposedly ran for 15 years without any change of hardware,@ >>> software or even maintenance that required it to power down. >>  H >> I understod that they stayed in service, *even with* hardware changesE >> (incl VAX->Alpha), OS upgrades and any other required maintenance. = >> It's the service level to the *users* that counts, right ?u > K > No, it was reportedly a VAX 11-750 that never shut down (running VMS V3).9J > While many disks fail, not _all_ disks fail.  Those with large shops whoL > encounter regular disk failures do not even claim that _every_ disk fails,> > just that _too_many_ fail (independent of operating system).  C As I said, it started out as a single machine that never shut down.rN    "The '18 years without a reboot' story from the Irish National Railway is a     good one,".         [From: Bill Todd (billtodd@foo.mv.com)$          Subject: Re: Fun VMS Facts?           Newsgroups: comp.os.vms          Date: 2000/06/13 ]-  1 It was later shown to be something else entirely:.L    "The VMS community loves to tell the tale of the Irish National Railway's.     VMScluster and its 17-year uptime record."A     [Shannon Knows Compaq, February 12, 2001, Volume 8, Number 5]a  N And, we find out it was "application availability" that was actually measured:F     "their OpenVMS based application had been running continuously for      "only" 17 years."2         [From: Main, Kerry (Kerry.Main@Compaq.com)0          Subject: RE: Try this on Linux or NT/ME           Newsgroups: comp.os.vms(          Date: 2001-02-01 06:58:38 PST ]  % But lived on in it's original format:nH     "Reliability is another big plus for VMS, the Irish National Railway@      apparently hold the record with a machine up for 15 years!"F         [From: Doc.Cypher (Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1])F          Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will-                   kill VMS if merger suceeds)dF          Newsgroups: comp.os.vms, comp.sys.dec, comp.os.linux.advocacy(          Date: 2001-12-30 08:39:03 PST ]   And the myth still goes on:j=    "IIRC, the Irish Railways machine was an old VAX 11/750.."$3        [From: Jeff York (jeff@jakfield.xu-netx.com) B         Subject: Re: OT - Suffer, all you Linux fans out there ;-)&         Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1'         Date: 2003-03-05 08:54:21 PST ]e  @ I am not saying VMS isn't a really good OS, but things should beC kept in the proper perspective.  And measuring "pure" uptime reallya is meaningless.0   bill   -- 0J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:06:31 GMTh, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well2 Message-ID: <baVib.6994$ru2.4368@news.cpqcorp.net>  K OpenVMS V7.3  on node VMS001  14-OCT-2003 12:02:05.69  Uptime  304 18:42:51aF   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts PagesdF 00000101 SWAPPER         HIB     16        0   0 00:05:55.51         0 0i      F OpenVMS web server http://h71000.www7.hp.com has been up for 304 days.   -- rK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------:7 Warren Sander                   WW E-Marketing (HP.COM) B Hewlett-Packard Company         Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comK 200 Forest Street MR01-3/K8     Personal: sander.ma.ultranet@remove.rcn.com:. Marlboro, MA 01752              (508) 467-48755    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself<*          Read http://www.hp.com/go/openvmsK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------        begin 666 s.gif0= K1TE&.#EA`0`!`(#_`/___P```"'Y! $`````+ `````!``$```("1 $`.P``  `n endc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:01:15 +0200G" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>F Subject: Re: The VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Letter, Vol. 1 Number 1.4 Message-ID: <3f8b9f3d$0$20163$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   John Smith wrote:c   > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > H >>  PL/1 is a Kednos product, and questions on PL/I status and plans and% >>  support should be directed there.I >>M > My understanding of the status of the PL/1 compiler is that HP would prefer N > to see customers translate their PL/1 code to C or C++, and that HP plans toL > offer zero porting assistance to Kednos with any issues related to the GEM > compiler.   G My antennas reported me the same information. Let's start a new thread a on this issue.  G For those of you who would be pleased to know what a "GEM compiler" is:vB http://research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ808/DTJ808SC.TXT   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Oct 2003 10:52:25 GMT) From: rankin@pactechdata.com (Pat Rankin))2 Subject: Re: VMS decc FreeTDS compilation question/ Message-ID: <14OCT200303522562@pactechdata.com>   ) In article <3F8B05DE.8050700@yahoo.com>,\r/  Patrick Spinler <pspinler@yahoo.com> writes...a [...]8C > Can anyone suggest how I can work around this and other, similar PH > compilation issues with the definitions CS_PASSWORD, CS_HOSTNAME, and 7 > the apparently non-existing CS_SERVERNAME constants ?o  C      You need to get rid of `/Standard=VAXC' and compile it in ANSIHD mode instead.  Then that construct will work as the author intended.  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@pactechdata.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:13:31 GMTe& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?0 Message-ID: <%8Wib.6999$OC2.39@news.cpqcorp.net>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Alan Greig wrote:: > u >>"Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<ebghb.6704$E04.4489@news.cpqcorp.net>...s >> >>J >>>Drawing conclusions about V8.0 performance to the production release inO >>>2004, would be like using Alpha V1.0 Beta as a characterization of Alpha VMSr >>>performance.c >>. >>Which was actuallly pretty good as I recall. >  > 4 > That was hardware engineered to run VMS, remember. >     G Huh?  What hardware feature of Alpha is there to support OpenVMS?  The lE only hardware features I know of are the RC and RS instructions that  A were added to allow VEST to do correct VAX to Alpha translations.i  H The rest is all PALcode.  Now you can certainly argue that the creation I of the concept of PALcode was a benefit to OpenVMS's design at the time, i" but it benefited Tru64 and others.   -- c John Reaganr' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadere Hewlett-Packard Companye   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:42:49 +0200"5 From: Wilm Boerhout <wboerhoutOLD@PAINTvxcompany.com>aA Subject: Re: White paper: CHARON-VAX cluster w/ shared SCSI disksr* Message-ID: <bmh9bk$det$1@reader08.wxs.nl>   > F > What the CI did was allow direct access to storage by each system.  K > Systems without such an interconnect were forced to serve all disks from g% > the system they were/are connected.r >   F This is exactly what our SCSI solution gives us: direct access to the E storage by each system. No need to MSCP serve. Mind you, these Intel sH systems often have their own internal SCSI drives as well, on the local B SCSI bus. Our system does. These devices *are* MSCP served to the 7 cluster, as are any local virtual disk container files.a   > K > I'm with you on wondering about 2 masters on the SCSI bus.  I don't know  K > much about differential SCSI, well, SCSI in general, and therefore don't m6 > know if the differential SCSI hardware handles such. >   H There are *no* two masters on the bus. As explained in the white paper, H each VAX only sees the SCSI drives, not the other VAX host, and Windows I does "little or nothing" on that SCSI bus. I plan to run more heave load aI tests, but based on what I saw already, it's more than interesting. It's   production class.o   -- w
 Wilm Boerhouth VX Company, The Netherlandsr   wboerhoutOLD@PAINTvxcompany.coma'   (remove OLD PAINT from reply address)d  ' *** my opinions are strictly my own ***r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:49:51 +0200i5 From: Wilm Boerhout <wboerhoutOLD@PAINTvxcompany.com>VA Subject: Re: White paper: CHARON-VAX cluster w/ shared SCSI diskst* Message-ID: <bmh9oq$fei$1@reader08.wxs.nl>   H Vlems wrote:  ' >  Whatever way you may want to put it,.L > for VMS system managers the Charon setup is a straight forward NI cluster.: > Which incidentally may also be achieved if you run simh.    D You may have seen by now that it is not an NI-(LAVC)-cluster at all.  H As for comparing it to simh, that's not fair at all. simh (I've used it G and the public domain / open source predecessors for a long time. Used H= to load RSTS/E on the PDP-11 simulator just to run Adventure)e  I simh is perfectly suitable for the hobbyist and educational environment.  / I bet it can win over some new VMS enthusiasts.e  F CHARON-VAX on the other hand is production class software. One of our I customers runs it with 800 users logged in and heavy batches at night on  H a single soon to be clustererd Compaq Proliant DL360 / DL380, replacing  a VAX 7000-620.l  F The cluster that led to writing the white paper delivers 100 VUPS! Be ( careful, children, this is not a toy :-)   --
 Wilm Boerhout  VX Company, The Netherlandsu   wboerhoutOLD@PAINTvxcompany.comh'   (remove OLD PAINT from reply address)   ' *** my opinions are strictly my own ***m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:30:33 +0200H" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>F Subject: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium4 Message-ID: <3f8ba61b$0$20152$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  H So, it seems that "we have a problem" here. Consequently, if you reader G are involved in this issue, could you please post here your answers to  I the following few questions and add a comment as an answer to question 5?   H Those of you (who are numerous) who do not wish to post for any reason, < you may send your answers to mailto:didiermorandi@nerim.net. Thanks.i  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Q1. Are/were you using PL/1 ?b On VAX  : YES / NO On Alpha: YES / NO  . Q2. Does your Company plan to move to Itanium? YES / NO  C Q3. If YES will you have to port your PL/1 applications to Itanium?. YES / NO  C Q4. If YES, did you adress the non availability of the KEDNOS PL/1 t compiler on IA64 issue?- YES / NO  6 Q5. If YES, what did you do and what were the results?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------; Please find below the thread which started this discussion.@    >>-----Original Message-----o+  >>From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]n)  >>Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 7:08 PM   >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI  >>Subject: Re: The VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Letter, Vol. 1 Number 1.   >>i  >>Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >>>I  >>> PL/1 is a Kednos product, and questions on PL/I status and plans and &  >>> support should be directed there.  >>>  >>tH  >> My understanding of the status of the PL/1 compiler is that HP wouldF  >> prefer to see customers translate their PL/1 code to C or C++, andE  >> that HP plans to offer zero porting assistance to Kednos with any?'  >> issues related to the GEM compiler.o  >> C  >> We know that those organizations that use PL/1 tend to be large =  >> corporate customers (Ford, National Semi) and other smalleH  >> organizations like the NSA and defense agencies in other nations, asD  >> well as telecom and other serious organizations (Allstate, State'  >> Farm, Zurich, Northwestern Mutual).r  >>1I  >> Some VMS - PL/1 users have made their feelings known on the matter aseA  >> the following makes clear (attribution removed to protect thea  >> innocent):  >>-I  >> "I got a call from Sun a couple of weeks ago concerning HP's mythicaleD  >> announcement that OpenVMS had been EOL'd. By now, I suspect mostF  >> remaining OpenVMS customers are on to this re-occurring deception.D  >> Unfortunately, it will be Digital/Compaq/HP's pathetic treatmentB  >> of the PL/1 compiler that will eventually drive our company to  >> another vendor.fG  >> (No,we're not converting it to C++ so we can run on IPF. If we have G  >> to perform a large-scale conversion, it'll be away from the companyrF  >> that forced us into the conversion). Based on what other divisionsH  >> are doing in this company, there's a good chance that vendor will be	  >> Sun."   >>cE  >> Now HP may think that pissing off several hundred large corporate F  >> customers that use PL/1 is a good idea, but for most if not all ofI  >> these customers, translating robust PL/1 code that is most likely thenI  >> core processing logic of their businesses into buffer overrun prone C>$  >> and C++ simply is a non-starter.  >> I  >> These same customer collectively run what probably amounts to several1H  >> thousand Alpha/VMS systems. So not only does HP piss these customersG  >> off, but they also wind up with a proposition that there is no PL/1 C  >> complier available for any proposed IA64 system from HP. Presto0C  >> chango - bye bye sales revenue for several thousand replacementbI  >> systems; bye bye service and maintenance revenue for several thousandV  >> systems.  >>oD  >> Can HP really afford to piss away this much revenue? I guess so.  >> H  >> According to Kednos, what HP needs to do is to provide access to theC  >> latest GEM, allocate some resources to maybe do a few things toeE  >> ensure that the debugger, for example, will continue to work with D  >> PL/I.  This may not be entirely within HP's purview since it may  >> involve Intel.  >>   >> So, to make it simpletH  >> Step 1.  Get access to the latest GEM (Base level 43 or thereabouts)I  >> Step 2.  Integrate with PL/I front-end on Alpha, run regression tests2*  >> step 3.  Update debugger, if required.-  >> step 4.  Do same on Itanium (HW required)   >>MH  >> What's all this going to cost HP? A few hundred thousand bucks? LessF  >> than a tank of gas for the HP corporate jet. Less than the cost ofH  >> one 10cm x 10cm logo on the helmet of Juan Montoya for one Formula 1G  >> race. Kednos will be in for many times that for their efforts. As IGG  >> understand it, Kednos is more than willing to port to IA64/VMS, but/E  >> needs HP to do some lifting at its end so Kendos can do its part.   >>0B  >> As far as I know, requests from Kendos to HP have been brushed%  >> aside without much consideration.s  >>D  >> John Smith   Tom Linden (KEDNOS) wrote:  G  > Thank you for the supportive arguments.  Ironically it was licensing H  > PL/I to Digital in 1978 that gave them a boost of legitimacy into theI  > world of corporate computing in the first place. In fact, I believe it:F  > was Ford that was the catalyst IIRC.  We had helped Prime get majorH  > business there at the expense of Digital because there was no PL/I on  > the VAX.t  >I  > After PL/I was ported to the VAX that situation changed to the benefitw  > of Digital.  >I  > We have had the discussion before in this group about moving PL/I codeeG  > to C or C++ and I think the consensus is that this is unworkable and:
  > stupid.  >G  > I have written the only PL/I to C translator that works and that wasmI  > to use a code generator based on a C abstract machine.  We know how tooC  > use it (On Tru64) but you would not want to use it as a tool forfH  > porting, nor would we even entertain that notion.  On Tru64 we had to  > write our own debugger.  >I  > We have a portable code generator that is probably as good as GEM, butuF  > it would take some effort to provide the hardware grammar and test,I  > but most importantly, it would not be integrated into the VMS languageuB  > tools set (I hope that is not an oxymoron)  and that is a pity.D  > Starlet and SDL are really great concepts, but it appears that HP  > doesn't get it.  >E  > I have to confess that I was never a big fan of Alpha, nor am I ofeG  > Itanium, I have seen too many flash in the pans in the last 40 yearsaE  > and there is nothing extraordinary with either.  VAX OTOH was well:  > designed.  >G  > Summa summarum,  without GEM we will not port PL/I to Itanium.  ThiseG  > Itanium adventure could well put HP out of business if pursued along I  > the present lines.  What is the imperative for a corporate customer to +  > buy it?  Retain Trust is just snake oil.-  >  > Tom  G The VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Letter, Vol. 1 Number 1a is available 12 at www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdf   D. -- 2- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros0+       Business Partner ~ Revendeur agr HPd.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:37:25 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)J Subject: Re: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium. Message-ID: <bmgu6l$ro0$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  ~ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes in article <3f8ba61b$0$20152$626a54ce@news.free.fr> dated Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:30:33 +0200: >Q1. Are/were you using PL/1 ? >On VAX  : YES / NOd >On Alpha: YES / NO6  H We run a large PL1/C/C++ application on the Alpha/VMS platform.  We haveK been integrating it with Java and Unix/C/C++, and there's also an effort too# do a complete rewrite in pure Java.:  / >Q2. Does your Company plan to move to Itanium?c	 >YES / NO   I Undecided as yet.  I was hoping the VMS software would remain competative4/ long enough to justify an itanium experiment.  c  D >Q3. If YES will you have to port your PL/1 applications to Itanium?	 >YES / NO:   Yes.    D >Q4. If YES, did you adress the non availability of the KEDNOS PL/1  >compiler on IA64 issue?	 >YES / NOd  ? Without PL/1 we will not consider the Itanium platform, period.   L Hoff, is this final?  I haven't told management yet.  When I do it will meanI an accelleration of the port to Java, which we run mostly on Sun and Dell1 boxes.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:34:33 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>J Subject: Re: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium4 Message-ID: <3f8c097e$0$20182$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Keith A. Lewis wrote:e  D > Hoff, is this final?  I haven't told management yet.  When I do itE > will mean an accelleration of the port to Java, which we run mostly= > on Sun and Dell boxes.  E I'm not Hoff, but my antennas told me that "HP had some success with cF PL/1 to C translations.  HP decided not to spend resources on KEDNOS, 4 instead focus on a move to a more current compiler".  9 The "success with PL/1 to C translations" can be found ate/ http://www.softresint.com/pub/SPD/01-04-008.pdf-  G The question is now to know if the installed base will "translate with N# success" or move to another vendor.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:05:05 -0700t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>rJ Subject: RE: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEPIIDAA.tom@kednos.com>r   >-----Original Message-----p* >From: Didier Morandi [mailto:no@spam.com]( >Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 7:35 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComC >Subject: Re: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to. >Itanium >b >t >Keith A. Lewis wrote: >eE >> Hoff, is this final?  I haven't told management yet.  When I do itnF >> will mean an accelleration of the port to Java, which we run mostly >> on Sun and Dell boxes.s >aF >I'm not Hoff, but my antennas told me that "HP had some success with G >PL/1 to C translations.  HP decided not to spend resources on KEDNOS, n5 >instead focus on a move to a more current compiler".I >:: >The "success with PL/1 to C translations" can be found at0 >http://www.softresint.com/pub/SPD/01-04-008.pdf >"H >The question is now to know if the installed base will "translate with $ >success" or move to another vendor.  B By providing a PL/I compiler on Itanium you are moving ONE programC not hundreds at each customer site.  Moreover, notwithstanding HP'stE claims to the contrary PL/I in general is very difficult to translatehI to C or C++ and generally requires a rewrite.  This spin is disingenuous..     >  >D.c >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.d; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).-A >Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003  >d ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:44:04 +0000 (UTC)t, From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)J Subject: Re: [survey] Should the KEDNOS PL/1 compiler be ported to Itanium. Message-ID: <bmh94k$lci$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  ~ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes in article <3f8c097e$0$20182$626a54ce@news.free.fr> dated Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:34:33 +0200:: >The "success with PL/1 to C translations" can be found at0 >http://www.softresint.com/pub/SPD/01-04-008.pdf  H Thanks for the pointer, Didier, but I read that when it was first postedJ here.  I suspect that the engineer behind it is a former co-worker here atH Mitre who led an effort to translate our PL/I app to C++ here.  The code@ generally worked after it was cleaned up, but end product wasn't% human-readable (i.e. maintainable).  e  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.570 ************************