1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 17 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 575       Contents: 8 way IBM power5 picture!  Re: 8 way IBM power5 picture!  Re: 8 way IBM power5 picture! " An interesting view on outsourcing0 Re: Anyone interested in a media player for VMS?0 Re: Anyone interested in a media player for VMS?0 Re: Anyone interested in a media player for VMS? Clustering over GB Switches  Re: Clustering over GB Switches 3 Re: Convert C file descriptor to VMS channel number   Cost of process creation on Unix$ Re: Cost of process creation on Unix$ RE: Cost of process creation on Unix( Re: RE: Cost of process creation on Unix$ Re: Cost of process creation on Unix$ Re: Cost of process creation on Unix$ Re: Cost of process creation on Unix$ Re: Cost of process creation on Unix$ Re: Cost of process creation on Unix$ Re: Cost of process creation on Unix? Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results  Re: Latest VMS Critical Upgrade % Re: Long time until Username prompt ? % Re: Long time until Username prompt ?  Re: nagios plugin for vms " Need pricing ???? Call or email us2 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500! Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertisment ! Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertisment ! Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertisment ! Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertisment $ OT: Verisign sells Network Solutions Re: Port-forwarding FTP H Re: Product Install of "older" kits warns of deleting "UNDO" directoriesG Q: Product Install of "older" kits warns of deleting "UNDO" directories ( Read data from a native format zip disk?, Re: Read data from a native format zip disk? Re: SIMH- Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well 7 Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X F Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X (sorta solved)F Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X (sorta solved)F Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X (sorta solved) Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: VMS defeated by wind Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches  Re: W2K patches % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? % Re: What is the performance of iVMS ? 8 Re: White paper: CHARON-VAX cluster w/ shared SCSI disks> Re: [Plug] using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 12:59:48 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)" Subject: 8 way IBM power5 picture!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310161159.5ea96d5f@posting.google.com>    to bad it can't run OpenVMS ...     ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12145    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:25:30 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: Re: 8 way IBM power5 picture!) Message-ID: <3F8EFEAB.65F89A3D@istop.com>    Bob Ceculski wrote: + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12145   ! > to bad it can't run OpenVMS ...    **YET***  K By the time IA64 falters, perhaps the VMS group will have been spun out and P woudl then have the freedom to choose between Power, AMD's 64 bit 8086 or Sparc.    L Nevertheless, it would be very neat if IBM would to produce those chips in aM ceramic tile forma that you could use to cover floors. For those of us living M in winter areas, you'd have nice warm ceramic floors in your home :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:24:08 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>& Subject: Re: 8 way IBM power5 picture!2 Message-ID: <bmn5rm$i3p$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > + >>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12145  >  > ! >>to bad it can't run OpenVMS ...  >  > 
 > **YET*** > M > By the time IA64 falters, perhaps the VMS group will have been spun out and R > woudl then have the freedom to choose between Power, AMD's 64 bit 8086 or Sparc. >  > N > Nevertheless, it would be very neat if IBM would to produce those chips in aO > ceramic tile forma that you could use to cover floors. For those of us living O > in winter areas, you'd have nice warm ceramic floors in your home :-) :-) :-)   H Or use them in the datacenter. It gives a whole new meaning to the word  'computerfloor'.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:23:32 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: An interesting view on outsourcing K Message-ID: <UeCjb.354910$Lnr1.136409@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   L http://marketwatch-cnet.com.com/2100-1001_3-5091043.html?type=pt&part=market watch-cnet&tag=feed&subj=news   I Interesting because of who made the observation....Bob Napier, CIO of HP.   F It sort of calls into question carly(tm)'s attempts to plunge into the outsourcing business.   I "....Although not frequently in the limelight, Napier had strong opinions 2 about technology and how it should be implemented.  I Jeff Clarke, the former chief financial officer at Compaq and now head of H HP's supply chain operations, said Napier was a technology visionary who- also had a passion for serving his customers.   H "You could just feel every day how he thought about customers and how heK thought about technology," Clarke said in a telephone interview on Tuesday.  "He felt a real obligation."  I One area where Napier's opinions diverged from the HP company line was on  the topic of outsourcing.   L "I don't know too many successes out there from the 1995, 1996 glory days ofI outsourcing," he said last year. "We all learned through the process that I signing 10-year deals where you abdicated responsibility to somebody else  doesn't work."  K While acknowledging that others might disagree with that assessment, Napier K said it is better to contract out only for a particular technology task, if  at all.   J "If somebody is an expert at e-mail and you're not, and somebody can do itL better for you, go for it," Napier said. "I might consider allowing somebodyH to fly the plane for me, but I'm going to be the one who owns the flight plan."      ( Napier died of cancer earlier this week.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:33:22 GMT + From: "Jay E. Morris" <usenet@epsilon3.com> 9 Subject: Re: Anyone interested in a media player for VMS? 5 Message-ID: <6VFjb.2136$wj.769@twister.austin.rr.com>   3 In message <3f8d4528@cpns1.saic.com>, Mark Berryman # <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote:  > Dirk Munk wrote:L > > Yes, I am. But even more in a new Flash plugin for Mozilla. The old one F > > is hardly usable anymore, and since many web designers use flash.. > J > That request has come in recently from a few folks.  It would be a very K > large project but I'll take a look at doing it if there is enough demand.  >  > Mark Berryman   < Demand, demand,  demand,  demand,  demand,  demand,  demand. --  @ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:56:59 -0500 ( From: Michael Rice <marice@whiteice.com>9 Subject: Re: Anyone interested in a media player for VMS? / Message-ID: <voubullvi4q016@corp.supernews.com>   + On 10/13/2003 2:58 PM, Mark Berryman wrote: I > I have ported mplayer (the media player for Linux systems) to VMS.  It  G > is capable of playing a wide-range of audio/video formats, including  K > acting as a DVD player.  Unfortunately, most of the optimizations in the  J > code assume a GNU C compiler and an Intel/AMD hardware platform.  There G > are only a handful of Alpha optimizations.  The result is video that  $ > plays too slowly, even on my DS10. > K > Right now I am looking at finding all of the code that was optimized for  F > MMX and writeing a version optimized for Alpha.  I was wondering if C > there was anyone out there willing to lend a hand with this.  My  I > understanding of the Alpha instruction set is sufficient to read crash  K > dumps but doesn't really extend to a knowledge of instruction latency or  C > scheduling.  (I do have a copy of the Alpha Architecture manual).  > C > I've also discovered that Motif V1.3 includes a Direct-Rendering  I > extension.  Can anyone point me to any info on how to make use of this?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Mark Berryman  > J > P.S.  If there are any Motif for VMS maintainers reading this, it would K > be really helpful if VMS supported the Xv extension.  This appears to be  G > how Linux on Alpha is able to get such good performance with mplayer  E > since, among other things, it eliminates the need for a YUV to RGB  
 > conversion.  >   H What about using OpenGL to do the rendering? Are the OpenGL libs on VMS ? optimized to take advantage of the available graphics hardware?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:12:03 -0700 + From: Mark Berryman <mark@theberrymans.com> 9 Subject: Re: Anyone interested in a media player for VMS? % Message-ID: <3f8f17b7@cpns1.saic.com>    Michael Rice wrote: - > On 10/13/2003 2:58 PM, Mark Berryman wrote:  > J >> I have ported mplayer (the media player for Linux systems) to VMS.  It H >> is capable of playing a wide-range of audio/video formats, including H >> acting as a DVD player.  Unfortunately, most of the optimizations in I >> the code assume a GNU C compiler and an Intel/AMD hardware platform.   I >> There are only a handful of Alpha optimizations.  The result is video  * >> that plays too slowly, even on my DS10. >>H >> Right now I am looking at finding all of the code that was optimized H >> for MMX and writeing a version optimized for Alpha.  I was wondering G >> if there was anyone out there willing to lend a hand with this.  My  J >> understanding of the Alpha instruction set is sufficient to read crash I >> dumps but doesn't really extend to a knowledge of instruction latency  G >> or scheduling.  (I do have a copy of the Alpha Architecture manual).  >>D >> I've also discovered that Motif V1.3 includes a Direct-Rendering J >> extension.  Can anyone point me to any info on how to make use of this? >>
 >> Thanks, >> >> Mark Berryman >>E >> P.S.  If there are any Motif for VMS maintainers reading this, it  D >> would be really helpful if VMS supported the Xv extension.  This I >> appears to be how Linux on Alpha is able to get such good performance  H >> with mplayer since, among other things, it eliminates the need for a  >> YUV to RGB conversion.  >> > J > What about using OpenGL to do the rendering? Are the OpenGL libs on VMS A > optimized to take advantage of the available graphics hardware?   F An OpenGL output module comes with mplayer and, in fact, works on VMS F (although, from comments I've seen on the mplayer developers list, it I hasn't been maintained for awhile).  However, for reasons I have not yet  G dug into, it is actually slower than using X11 output.  Of course, not  F being an OpenGL programmer, I'm going to have to learn GL programming ' before I can figure out why this is so.   
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 14:59:50 -07000 From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter)$ Subject: Clustering over GB Switches= Message-ID: <a3c44af1.0310161359.2034df25@posting.google.com>   E I currently have a 2-node cluster of ES40's running OpenVMS 7.3-1.    @ They are directly connected to each other via redundant GB FibreF adapters (EW_DEGPA)using two Fibre crossover cables.     This was doneC for expediency a few months ago, and was fine as long as I only had 
 two nodes.  E      I now need to add a third node!   To facilitate this I purchased B two Cisco Catalyst 3508G-XL Gigabit switches and all the necessary GBIC's etc.   B      I now need to move my existing cluster members off the Direct! connection and onto the Switches.   E      I have not configured the new switches in anyway, (figuring that D the DEFAULT settings would probably work).   They didn't!!    When IA brought up the second node it attempted to create its own cluster B (which caused me to do an immediate "HALT" on the system to try toB forstall any partitioning issues).     This clearly indicated that@ NODE_2 could not communicate with the "up" node, NODE_1, via the switch.   D      The new switches are dedicated to the task of SCS comms and areD not network-attached.   For this reason I have not configured any IP info on the switches.   F      I am really a novice with network switches etc., so if anyone canC give me some guidelines on how the GB switch and/or ports should be ) configured, I would really appreciate it.    Dave Baxter.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:07:46 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>( Subject: Re: Clustering over GB Switches) Message-ID: <3F8F169C.C8CEF17A@istop.com>    Dave Baxter wrote:H >      I am really a novice with network switches etc., so if anyone canE > give me some guidelines on how the GB switch and/or ports should be + > configured, I would really appreciate it.     K You should look at virtual lan settings. Smart switches can create multiple N virtual ethernets on a single "backbone". You configure each port as belongingJ to one or other virtual net. Then, the switch will only pass broadcasts to. ports that belong to the same virtual network.  G Secondly, such functionality brings in a different ethernet packet, one J prefixed with a virtual lan identification. Normally seen only between twoI switches that support this. But if one port is so configured, one of your I VAXes may be seing such packets instead of the standard ethernet packets.    The goal of such function is: N If you have a payroll employtee on a different floor, you can grant him accessN to all of the payroll dept's ethernet traffic, but the people around him won'tG see such traffic because they are plugged in to "accounting" ports. But M between the payroll floor switch and the acocunting floor switch, the traffic  is in that special format.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:05:23 -0700 + From: Mark Berryman <mark@theberrymans.com> < Subject: Re: Convert C file descriptor to VMS channel number' Message-ID: <3f8f1624$1@cpns1.saic.com>    mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote:* > In article <qnFbR7sKoCMP@cpva.saic.com>," >  mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes: > ) >>In article <3f86c4a8$1@cpns1.saic.com>, 5 >> Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:  >>I >>>I am in the process of making a program written for Unix available on  H >>>VMS.  As part of this, I need to write the VMS version of some IOCTL J >>>calls.  I'm not allowed to touch what the Unix code hands me (which is J >>>an Integer File Descriptor from an open call), nor would modifying the H >>>open call be practical since it is all the calls to IOCTL that would . >>>need to change, not the result of the open. >>> D >>>On Unix, all IOCTL functions use a file descriptor.  On VMS, the K >>>functions I need to issue are QIO based and need a channel number.  How  2 >>>can I find the channel associcated with the FD? >>>  >>>Mark Berryman >>> J >>>P.S.  DECC$GET_SDC is not a viable answer.  That only works on sockets I >>>and I am working with other types of devices (e.g., CDROM, DVD, etc.).  >>>  >>> >>I haven't tested any of this but it may work for you Mark... >>D >>From the FD you can get the FAB, check out the following URL (it'sH >>wrapped so you'll have to paste the lines together) where David MurphyG >>provides an example of how to locate all the RMS blocks given a C FD.  >>" >>http://groups.google.com/groups?: >>hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=dpm.867095187%40access4 >>D >>Then, given the FAB you can check the value stored in FAB$L_STV. AJ >>successful $CREATE or a $OPEN will store the IO channel number here. So,E >>if the CRTL is using these RMS services and the values haven't been F >>disturbed you should find the channel number there. Hope this helps. >> >  > J > I was curious about this and so did a bit of testing. The fab$l_stv doesM > contain the channel; however, the fab$m_ufo bit is not set in the fab$l_fop K > field so the channel is assigned in RMS' exec mode and is unavailable for  > use by any user mode code.    B Thanks, Jim.  You've saved me some work.  For at least one of the I projects I am going to be able to modify the open call.  I'll see what I   can come up with for the rest.  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:02:43 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Cost of process creation on Unix ) Message-ID: <3F8EEB4A.AC3E14FA@istop.com>   L Am about to start an argument with the owner of my ISP service. He is of theF opinion that breaking the 10 minute minimum timeout for POP servers isM beneficial (he set his to 15 seconds) because it means that processes go away M really fast, freeing resources, reducing paging/swapping, memory use etc etc.    Of course, this is Unix based.  J I know these issues in terms of VMS. So I have a few question to those who know both VMS and Unix:   N does unix have the equivalent of shareable images where you only have one copyM in memory shared by all similar processes ? (eg: does the creation of another N POP server process using the same image as an existing one really take up that much more memory ?)   J I realise that process creation is a lot faster on unix than VMS. However,M does a process hanging around waiting for input (possibly being paged out due N to inactivity) cost more then process deletion followed a while later by a newA process creation when the remote user attempts to connect again ?   L I know that in all mighty microvax II terms, letting the process hang aroundH is heaps cheaper than killing it have having it recreated again a minuteL later. And I know that for most cases, only POP sessions that have some kind2 of problem would extend to the 10 minute timeout.   I In my case, I had to tweak my software that picks up emails to issue NOOP M commands as timed ASTs between the time the message has been received and the L time the message has been processed. With large messages, it would sometimesJ take longer to process the message and issue the next commadn than the ISPM would allow. Result: I'd never get to usse the DELE command and the next time I my software tried to reconnect, it would download the same message again,  time-out agian etc etc.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:23:34 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: Re: Cost of process creation on Unix K Message-ID: <WeCjb.354911$Lnr1.247084@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    JF Mezei wrote: G > Am about to start an argument with the owner of my ISP service. He is D > of the opinion that breaking the 10 minute minimum timeout for POPC > servers is beneficial (he set his to 15 seconds) because it means A > that processes go away really fast, freeing resources, reducing & > paging/swapping, memory use etc etc. >   > Of course, this is Unix based. > B > I know these issues in terms of VMS. So I have a few question to# > those who know both VMS and Unix:  > G > does unix have the equivalent of shareable images where you only have D > one copy in memory shared by all similar processes ? (eg: does theC > creation of another POP server process using the same image as an 6 > existing one really take up that much more memory ?) > C > I realise that process creation is a lot faster on unix than VMS. D > However, does a process hanging around waiting for input (possiblyD > being paged out due to inactivity) cost more then process deletionG > followed a while later by a new process creation when the remote user  > attempts to connect again ?  > G > I know that in all mighty microvax II terms, letting the process hang B > around is heaps cheaper than killing it have having it recreated@ > again a minute later. And I know that for most cases, only POPG > sessions that have some kind of problem would extend to the 10 minute 
 > timeout. > F > In my case, I had to tweak my software that picks up emails to issueC > NOOP commands as timed ASTs between the time the message has been B > received and the time the message has been processed. With largeE > messages, it would sometimes take longer to process the message and D > issue the next commadn than the ISP would allow. Result: I'd neverE > get to usse the DELE command and the next time my software tried to E > reconnect, it would download the same message again, time-out agian 
 > etc etc.  K Sounds like your time would be better spent finding a new ISP than engaging + in a pissing contest with your current ISP.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:42:53 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> - Subject: RE: Cost of process creation on Unix 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEFBIEAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- ) >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] * >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:24 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >Subject: Re: Cost of process creation on Unix >  >  >JF Mezei wrote:H >> Am about to start an argument with the owner of my ISP service. He isE >> of the opinion that breaking the 10 minute minimum timeout for POP D >> servers is beneficial (he set his to 15 seconds) because it meansB >> that processes go away really fast, freeing resources, reducing' >> paging/swapping, memory use etc etc.  >>! >> Of course, this is Unix based.  >>C >> I know these issues in terms of VMS. So I have a few question to $ >> those who know both VMS and Unix: >>H >> does unix have the equivalent of shareable images where you only haveE >> one copy in memory shared by all similar processes ? (eg: does the D >> creation of another POP server process using the same image as an7 >> existing one really take up that much more memory ?)  >>D >> I realise that process creation is a lot faster on unix than VMS.E >> However, does a process hanging around waiting for input (possibly E >> being paged out due to inactivity) cost more then process deletion H >> followed a while later by a new process creation when the remote user >> attempts to connect again ? >>H >> I know that in all mighty microvax II terms, letting the process hangC >> around is heaps cheaper than killing it have having it recreated A >> again a minute later. And I know that for most cases, only POP H >> sessions that have some kind of problem would extend to the 10 minute >> timeout.  >>G >> In my case, I had to tweak my software that picks up emails to issue D >> NOOP commands as timed ASTs between the time the message has beenC >> received and the time the message has been processed. With large F >> messages, it would sometimes take longer to process the message andE >> issue the next commadn than the ISP would allow. Result: I'd never F >> get to usse the DELE command and the next time my software tried toF >> reconnect, it would download the same message again, time-out agian >> etc etc.  > L >Sounds like your time would be better spent finding a new ISP than engaging, >in a pissing contest with your current ISP.  I Why do you need an ISP?  All that is needed is a pipe to the internet and  you  everything you need on VMS   >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date: 10/6/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date: 10/6/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:07:33 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>1 Subject: Re: RE: Cost of process creation on Unix / Message-ID: <00A27788.123E69BC.5@tachysoft.com>    >>M >>Sounds like your time would be better spent finding a new ISP than engaging - >>in a pissing contest with your current ISP.  > J >Why do you need an ISP?  All that is needed is a pipe to the internet and >you >everything you need on VMS  >     N That's what I do.  My isp is nothing but a basic transport.  I don't use *any*L of their servers, just their routers.  All servers for my domain (web, mail,# even dns) run on vms machines here. O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== H Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:19:32 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: Cost of process creation on Unix ) Message-ID: <3F8EFD45.D046509E@istop.com>    John Smith wrote: M > Sounds like your time would be better spent finding a new ISP than engaging - > in a pissing contest with your current ISP.   G The ISP is fine, and offers fied IP and no blocked ports at residential L prices. But the owner is "colourful" (read: highly opiniated and not affraidI to insult people) The rest of the employees are normal. I want to be rock % solid in my response to his response.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:34:42 -0400 $ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>- Subject: Re: Cost of process creation on Unix . Message-ID: <3F8F3922.508376CC@eps.zk.dec.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   O > beneficial (he set his to 15 seconds) because it means that processes go away O > really fast, freeing resources, reducing paging/swapping, memory use etc etc.   I I expect that the cost of killing one connection too quickly, requiring a 
 re-connectL moments later to be 10x times the the cost of 'maintaining' an idle process.  K On a system with say less than 90% memory used the cost to maintain an idle  process Q is just minuscule bit more time in the scheduler I would guess making the cost of C getting it wrong 1000x more expensive ten just having it sit there.   P > does unix have the equivalent of shareable images where you only have one copyO > in memory shared by all similar processes ? (eg: does the creation of another P > POP server process using the same image as an existing one really take up that > much more memory ?)   M Unix tends to be better/cheaper than VMS in this area. VMS only shares  pages K explicitly marked shared. Unix does (or at least most of them) COW sharing, O copy on write. Everything is assumed shareable untill proven otherwise. So even 8 local data pages will be shared untill truly written to.   > L > I realise that process creation is a lot faster on unix than VMS. However,O > does a process hanging around waiting for input (possibly being paged out due P > to inactivity) cost more then process deletion followed a while later by a newC > process creation when the remote user attempts to connect again ?    that would be my guess. 7 But is it not rather easy for your ISP to measure this? K Can they not somehow keep track of  average and say 95 percentile idle time  (limited by timeout)R If the timout is too short, can they not detect re-connect and determine reconnect time curve?   K > In my case, I had to tweak my software that picks up emails to issue NOOP O > commands as timed ASTs between the time the message has been received and the N > time the message has been processed. With large messages, it would sometimesL > take longer to process the message and issue the next commadn than the ISPO > would allow. Result: I'd never get to usse the DELE command and the next time K > my software tried to reconnect, it would download the same message again,  > time-out agian etc etc.   R It would seems to me that it would take only a few 'clever' users like you keeping  J the line artificially busy, and just one 'dumb' user that re-tries all day unknowingly.  N It sounds just like then 'idle process killers'. Surely those only benefit the
 folks selling O them, not the folks using them. We would like leave a terminal in TPU. The 'you 	 are about Q to be shot' broadcast would be trapped and displayed and that was enough activity  toN no longer be considered idle. Now if you have a limited resource like physical modem lines,M then I can understant idle process killers, but to save a little memory? nah.    Cheers,  Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:13:35 -0500 5 From: "Martin P.J. Zinser" <zinser@zinser.no-ip.info> - Subject: Re: Cost of process creation on Unix 9 Message-ID: <bmnmp0$npcet$1@ID-209632.news.uni-berlin.de>    Wayne Sewell wrote: N >>>Sounds like your time would be better spent finding a new ISP than engaging. >>>in a pissing contest with your current ISP. >>K >>Why do you need an ISP?  All that is needed is a pipe to the internet and  >>you  >>everything you need on VMS >> >  >  > P > That's what I do.  My isp is nothing but a basic transport.  I don't use *any*N > of their servers, just their routers.  All servers for my domain (web, mail,% > even dns) run on vms machines here. Q > =============================================================================== P > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com= > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    Q > =============================================================================== J > Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."3 >    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!" F Same over here, Comcast just delivers the bits and an IP address, the H rest is handled via a small router and my VMS system. And having a look H at the various logs I think trying to defend a Windows system in such a H setup would be more a less a full time job (and most probably futile in  the end ;-)    Greetings, Martin    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:04:46 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> - Subject: Re: Cost of process creation on Unix > Message-ID: <yTJjb.109904$qj6.5344960@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Martin P.J. Zinser wrote:  > H > Same over here, Comcast just delivers the bits and an IP address, the J > rest is handled via a small router and my VMS system. And having a look J > at the various logs I think trying to defend a Windows system in such a J > setup would be more a less a full time job (and most probably futile in 
 > the end ;-)   H And both comcast.net and sympatico.ca have submitted the addresses that A you and JF Mezei are using to be blocked as dynamically supplied  F addresses to any mail server or blocking list operators that ask them.  8 http://informatie.easynet.nl/error/errors.html#dynablock  E The easynet.nl page references the AUP for both networks that states  3 that no mail servers are allowed on either network.   5 Comcast has an exception for specific rDNS addresses.   G To look up your I.P. address in the dynablock list and others, you can  H use the moensted.dk link.  Read the disclaimer.  Some of the lists will D list an entire subnet on the first sign of spam and never remove it.  - So being in some lists is almost meaningless.       http://www.moensted.dk/spam  E If you are running your own mail server and you are in the dynablock  I list, it means that your ISP is saying that your I.P. address is subject  J to change with out notice and/or you are not allowed to run a mail server.  F If that is incorrect, then you should contact your ISP to get them to D stop listing your IP as a dynamic one and get the dynablock listing 
 corrected.  I My broadband ISP in their internal newsgroups says that they are getting  G the dhcp ranges from the other consumer ISPs and putting them in their  G local blocking lists, and that they are providing their DHCP ranges to  I them in return.  The information in the dynablock.easynet.nl is probably  > a good indication of what your ISP is providing to other ISPs.  I Note that the dynablock.easynet.nl list is not a list of I.P.s that sent  I spam, it is a list of IPs that your ISP has identified as not to ever be B0 sending e-mail and are OK to preemptively block.  H Easynet.nl states that they are willing to remove any I.P. address that . should not be in it when your ISP requests it.     -Johnr wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlye   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:20:04 -0400l* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: Cost of process creation on Unixr) Message-ID: <3F8F5FBA.621802C9@istop.com>    "Martin P.J. Zinser" wrote:rG > Same over here, Comcast just delivers the bits and an IP address, thetI > rest is handled via a small router and my VMS system. And having a looktI > at the various logs I think trying to defend a Windows system in such atI > setup would be more a less a full time job (and most probably futile inn
 > the end ;-)   N The advantage of using the ISP's mailbox is that they have very agressive spamN protection. So I can use that email address while participating on newsgroups,N but use my own address when corresponding to people not related to newsgroups.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:18:30 -0400M* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: Cost of process creation on Unixm) Message-ID: <3F8F6D68.C6F72E35@istop.com>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote: I > And both comcast.net and sympatico.ca have submitted the addresses thatoB > you and JF Mezei are using to be blocked as dynamically suppliedH > addresses to any mail server or blocking list operators that ask them.  N Actually, the NNTP posting host you are seing from my post isn't my IP address ;-) :-)   Q My ISP has a proxy server onto another ISP's network to access their nntp server.M   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:26:35 GMTc9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>cH Subject: Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results2 Message-ID: <%9Djb.7213$gg5.3765@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:HfmdnXE3xPhzsROiU-KYuQ@metrocast.net... >b@ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message8 > news:cf15391e.0310141031.edc022d@posting.google.com...E > > Some here have contended that HP would never tout Alpha benchmarke > > results. >eL > They have?  Could you provide specific citations for these contentions?  IA > don't remember seeing them, but of course I'm hardly omniscient   L Really?  I think you pretty much want to present yourself as our all-seeing," all-knowing guardian of the light.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:27:58 +0100 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>i( Subject: Re: Latest VMS Critical Upgrade? Message-ID: <d4a27a424c.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>e  ( In message <03101322513008@antinode.org>!           sms@antinode.org wrote:-  ! > From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>- > F > > > [... add a hook to TCPIP to allow manager/user configured e-mail > > > message rejection ...] > > > - > > >    Easy?  Hard?  Troublesome?  Useless?1 > > : > > Easy. It's already available, and it's called DELIVER. > 5 >    Not exactly.  As the DELIVER documentation says:- > L >     (1)  DELIVER changes the "From:" address of any message it delivers orL >          forwards  to  the address of the owner of the MAIL.DELIVERY file.L >          The original "From:" address is not lost entirely -- it is merged7 >          into the subject line of the message.  [...]M > I > I'd like to keep the From address intact, for obvious reasons (REPLY).   > H >    DELIVER is handy for automating some stuff, but, unless I'm missingG > the obvious (again), it seems to do too much damage to a mail messageu > for convenient, normal use.  > I >    Also, I notice that DELIVER_STARTUP.COM always uses INSTALL REPLACE, G > which causes warnings if the image is not already installed.  This is I > easy to fix by testing f$file_attributes( image, "KNOWN") and using ADD0' > or REPLACE as appropriate, of course.j > J >    Also, DELIVER_STARTUP.COM seems to re-install SYS$SYSTEM:MAIL.EXE andJ > SYS$SYSTEM:MAIL_SERVER.EXE with more priileges than VMS normally does, IF > assume with no reason nowadays (V7.3-1 Alpha).  Or is my kit old and > out-of-date?  / And this is something to be VERY careful about.r  F Many years ago we got fed up with our site-wide notifications bouncingK because some users had changed the protection of MAIL.MAI to exclude SYSTEMbG (Typically S,G,O:WRED,W). We changed the install of MAIL.EXE to includea BYPASS (It already had SYSPRV).r  L The result allowed any user to copy any file on the system, by mailing it toJ his/herself. Mail apparently turned off its expected privs while trying toF attach a file, and did not turn off BYPASS because it wasn't expected.   Maybe it has changed now.      > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.orgt >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-25474   Alan   -- p
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 13:26:09 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley). Subject: Re: Long time until Username prompt ?3 Message-ID: <jmUNLiieZepW@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  c In article <3F8DC2AA.5490107C@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:d > Hi.P6 > For some unknown reason, on a specific box, it takes7 > over 1 minute from the "connect" in an PC VT emulatore: > until the Username: prompt. After that all seems to have7 > "normal" respons times. FTP's run at about 10 Mbit/s.a >   ( Stack and version in use on the server ?  G If it's UCX 5.3, there is a known problem with the Telnet server takingeJ about a minute to time out if there are problems doing the reverse lookup.  ) Applying ECO 2 cured this problem for me.o   Simon.   -- uB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:44:26 +0200s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>a. Subject: Re: Long time until Username prompt ?' Message-ID: <3F8F032A.C0EF4504@aaa.com>'   Simon Clubley wrote:* > Stack and version in use on the server ? > I > If it's UCX 5.3, there is a known problem with the Telnet server takinggL > about a minute to time out if there are problems doing the reverse lookup. > + > Applying ECO 2 cured this problem for me.  >        $ tcpip sh ver  7   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3u8   on a AlphaServer DS10 466 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3       $g  + I'll check the pathes. Thanks for the tip !   B Anyway, the problem was solved by making sure the DNS settings was correct in the first place...k  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 20:22:11 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) " Subject: Re: nagios plugin for vms= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0310161922.547524bb@posting.google.com>   o "zakaria Yassine" <zakaria@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<9X2jb.7084$cT6.303658@news20.bellglobal.com>...y > Hello, > G > Instead of plugin, why don't you just use nrpe agent on OpenVMS. I've L > rewriten the agent from nagios.org and it's working fine on our systems. II > can send you the source files (in C) or the image if you don't have a C 0 > compiler. (just let me know your version/arch) > 
 > Zakaria,5 why don't you get one of the maintainers to put it ony2 http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/nagios/nrpe/0 or send it to nagios-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:28:27 -0400t% From: "DAVID TURNER" <DAVID@HPAQ.NET>e+ Subject: Need pricing ???? Call or email usg/ Message-ID: <voudntrdtrkr9a@news.supernews.com>i    No obligation quotes from island   sales@hpaq.net  # Need list prices??? - no problem... ; In an HP World where salespeople seem to be non-existent... ( Aren't you glad we are here ??!?!?!!?!??   www.hpaq.net Tel: 912 447 6622i   We ship worldwide !!!c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:19:03 GMTA9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>l; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500A2 Message-ID: <X2Djb.7211$v55.5586@news.cpqcorp.net>  H Give it up Bill.  No good news for the vast majority of us here, is goodG news to you.  Good news to you would be an ISV announcing they were not I porting - because it help to shore up your desire for IA64 and OpenVMS toxH fail.  Like clockwork, you will spin anything positive (and I think 500+I ISV's committing to port to OpenVMS I64 *is* positive) into some negativeV' pot shot at HP, Intel, VMS, Carly, etc.     5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea, news:C0idnd_y6-AqhxOiXTWJhg@metrocast.net... >e@ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0310141019.442e7ac4@posting.google.com... E > > "HP OpenVMS: ISV commitment and enthusiasm grow for HP OpenVMS ons > > Integrity serverst > >dD > > With more than 500 ISV applications now committed to port to theH > > OpenVMS operating system on HP Integrity servers, ISV commitment andD > > enthusiasm continue to grow. "The momentum continues!" says Mark
 > > Gorham >eH > Someone should tell Mark that momentum *always* 'continues': it is, in fact,8G > a conserved quantity in the absence of external forces (the Alphacider beingnG > the largest such force in recent memory, but of course the 'affinity'vF > program deserves recognition as well; unfortunately, no compensatingL > examples of momentum-*increasing* forces in the past decade spring readily > to mind).l >oF > Since the momentum associated with VMS these days tends to be of theK > minuscule variety, having it 'continue' is something of a mixed blessing. J > Now, if HP actually took some action that would significantly *increase*K > VMS's momentum, *that* would be news (this being, after all, a newsgroup,o% > rather than an extension of HP PR).i >  > - bill >r >n >g   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:55:59 GMTd# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>f* Subject: Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertismentK Message-ID: <3RBjb.354895$Lnr1.174431@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>e   Robert Trawinski wrote:s > Sue Skonetski wrote:	 >> Folks,  >>H >> There is now an HP add with VMS in it for Integrity Servers.  It is aE >> 3M file.  At this point it is not on a web site, but if you need aa3 >> copy please send me mail at my hp email address.i >> >> Warm Regards, >> Sue > G > The same advertisment was published in August in Computerworld Polskao > (Poland). And... no VMS.    L Ah, so the ad which appeared in the 'New Scientist' was  a misprint then. ItG was clearly an earlier version of the ad before it was proof-read by HPi management.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:14:32 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> * Subject: Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertisment2 Message-ID: <I_Cjb.7209$Ud5.3666@news.cpqcorp.net>  B You know, leave it to you and JF.  You guys are just unbelievable.    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE news:3RBjb.354895$Lnr1.174431@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...g > Robert Trawinski wrote:r > > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >> Folks,  > >>J > >> There is now an HP add with VMS in it for Integrity Servers.  It is aG > >> 3M file.  At this point it is not on a web site, but if you need ah5 > >> copy please send me mail at my hp email address.o > >> > >> Warm Regards, > >> Sue > >lI > > The same advertisment was published in August in Computerworld Polskae > > (Poland). And... no VMS. >  >pK > Ah, so the ad which appeared in the 'New Scientist' was  a misprint then.i ItI > was clearly an earlier version of the ad before it was proof-read by HPI
 > management.d >t >d   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 15:48:07 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e* Subject: Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertisment3 Message-ID: <oPe6BXG5JY8y@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  i In article <bmmgs3$c67$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>, Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> writes:w > Sue Skonetski wrote:	 >> Folks,! >> hH >> There is now an HP add with VMS in it for Integrity Servers.  It is aE >> 3M file.  At this point it is not on a web site, but if you need as3 >> copy please send me mail at my hp email address.a >> h >> Warm Regards, >> Sue > H > The same advertisment was published in August in Computerworld Polska  > (Poland). And... no VMS.  H That data point proves progress is being made in the hearts and minds...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:21:40 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertismentK Message-ID: <UREjb.355155$Lnr1.235559@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>B   Fred,   L If HP spent 1/2 an iota of time (that's currently defined by ISO as 1/2 of aK femtosecond) advertising VMS specifically and spending a some real dough onsH the advertising (if carly(tm) could forego only one hair appointment) onC some decent print ads for it, you may find that all of a sudden VMS I Engineering would be hiring more people to help out and add more featuresf' faster due to increased customer sales.   9 And you might get a raise too. And I hope you do get one.     H Serious question Fred - do you and your engineering colleagues in NashuaL ever wonder why HP does not do VMS-specific advertising? If so, what reasonsL have you been told by your management as to the lack of VMS advertising? YouF clearly have an excellent product and a great story to tell to tens ofL thousands of corporations and governments worldwide - especially in this dayL and age of worms, virii, and so-called focus on security and reliability. SoE why pray tell is there no VMS advertising to tell all these potentialo5 customers that HP has a great solution to their woes?e  I Do you thing that the soft-sell ads of mouse pointers snatching criminalssF off the streets or astronauts ambling down the expressway at rush hourJ actually sells VMS product, especially when somebody who sees one of thoseI ads calls HP and asks for help? Most lekely the HP person who answers thel- phone will try to sell them an ink cartridge.a  K Remember the movie 'Network' from the late 1970's? ...the newscaster HowardmK Beale who told everybody to stand up and shout "I'm mad as hell and I'm not H going to take it anymore!!"?? What HP needs to to is take something likeL that and turn it into a TV commercial for VMS - corporate execs and IT headsG complaining about the crap they're being fed by the Microsoft and LinuxvK communities and turn it into an ad with the calm voice of reason explainingfI that a certain o/s (VMS...ever heard of it?) offers relief from the lies,eL downtime, data corruption, worms, etc... for businesses ranging in size fromL one computer through thousands of monster servers (comparative photos - FromJ this - one small Alpha under a desk to this - a pic of Los Alamos's server room).  B Or something a bit more subtle like two IT guys sitting at a tableH discussing their woes. Maybe they are some clearly identifiable militaryJ officer types in uniform, maybe they are just civillians. They have drinksK of some sort on the table - opaque ones. One guy is bitching away about hisSK issues and asks the other how he manages to handle these same problems. TheIG second guy begins to stir something into his drink (I don't recall much L chemistry at the moment to say what he stirs in - call it 'sweetener' on theI package) and as his 'drink' goes transparent he says "We don't experienceoJ those problems" while the camera focuses on the stirred drink and the wordL 'OpenVMS' becomes visible on a box behind the drink, magnified by refractionK through the glass. The voiceover says something like "OpenVMS - the clearlysL superior operating system for secure computing.  Only from HP.' or a million other messages you can deliver.i  H If you want to answer but would prefer to do so under a pseudonym from aJ non-HP monitored network I'll understand completely - it's getting awfullyI close to Halloween and the time when witch hunts are all the rage and thed! Grim Reaper makes her appearance._           Fred Kleinsorge wrote:D > You know, leave it to you and JF.  You guys are just unbelievable. >a >l0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageG > news:3RBjb.354895$Lnr1.174431@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...e >> Robert Trawinski wrote: >>> Sue Skonetski wrote: >>>> Folks,  >>>>E >>>> There is now an HP add with VMS in it for Integrity Servers.  ItaE >>>> is a 3M file.  At this point it is not on a web site, but if you3< >>>> need a copy please send me mail at my hp email address. >>>> >>>> Warm Regards, >>>> Sue >>> B >>> The same advertisment was published in August in Computerworld# >>> Polska (Poland). And... no VMS.r >> >>F >> Ah, so the ad which appeared in the 'New Scientist' was  a misprintB >> then. It was clearly an earlier version of the ad before it was >> proof-read by HP management.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:57:03 -0400c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: OT: Verisign sells Network Solutions ) Message-ID: <3F8F141A.63F7FE11@istop.com>o  I On the heels of the wildcard DNS debacle, Verisign is selling its Network  Solutions division.lF http://www.verisign.com/corporate/news/2003/pr_20031016.html?sl=070805    K The twist is that Verisign is keeping the root DNS business and selling theyG domain registration service.Obviously an attempt to separate the domain H registration from root dns servers. However, the wildcarding to point toI Verisign,s SIte Finder would still put Verisign in a conflict of interesthB since it would benefit from its operation of the DNS root servers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:15:53 +0200t From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>  Subject: Re: Port-forwarding FTP2 Message-ID: <bmn5c7$fuc$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Michael T. Davis wrote: '   The FTP client would be configured towI >>>establish passive transfer with the server and the SSH client would bet$ >>>invoked with something like this: >>>o= >>>                      ssh -L 21:<server-IP>:21 <server-IP>i >> >>? >>The command is a bit wrong. It should be something like this:t >>% >>ssh -L2222:localhost:21 <server-IP>e >>N >>Localhost is IP number 127.0.0.1 as you will know, and 2222 is 'just' a port >>number you can choose. >  > H >         If your concern is over the intervening space between "-L" andN > "21:...", it has not proved to be a problem (at least under CYGWIN).  What'sL > more, there's no reason for me to use a different local port number, sinceL > the client side doesn't have a FTP server and I'm running under an accountK > with administrative access.  Finally, localhost doesn't typically work astO > the target of the "-L" option when you're trying to port-forward passive FTP;r? > you have to use the remote system's IP address or host name. c  L I don't understand this. The -L command should tell the local SSH client to P listen to port 2222 (in my example), then connect to the remote SSH server, and H tell this remote server to deliver the data to port 21 on its localhost.    Z > (At least, that was necessary under TCP/IP Services v5.1.)  Regardless, no specificationM > of "localhost", remote server IP (or host name), or even client IP (or host # > name) seems to help matters, now.t >  > ? >>From the client you have to start your ftp session like this:  >> >>ftp localhost 2222 >  > 0 >         ...Or, in my case, "ftp localhost 21." > J >         It seems that the engineers have addressed a security concern inJ > TCP/IP Services for VMS v5.3 that was left open under v5.1.  I have seenI > reference to this problem under other operating systems and FTP serversaL > as I was researching this issue via Google.  In some cases, the FTP serverH > can be coerced to override the source check on the data stream, but as@ > far as I can tell, the FTP server under TCP/IP Services can't. >  > B >>By the way, TCP/IP  V5.4 will have SSH as a standard part of the >>distribution.e- >>I'm trying the file test version right now.  >  > M >         That sounds interesting.  Does it support SSH levels 1 (1.5) and 2?dI > (As you may know, Dave Jones' server only support level 1 [1.5].)  Doest > it include a SSH client?  N It is a SSH V2 server & client, based on the 'real' SSH from a Finish company.   >  > J >>>Now, the command connection still manages to connect, but my FTP clientO >>>(WS_FTP) now reports the following problem after I connect, in response to a $ >>>directory listing (LIST) request: >>>-7 >>>425 Disallowing data connection for <client-IP>,4523b >>> N >>>(4523 is the randomly assigned client-side data port.)  A direct connection >> >>to >>6 >>>our FTP server is completely successful, as always.  M Perhaps you have to look at the -R command, and make the connection from the e
 server side ?      >>>DG >>>	Researching port-forwarding FTP in general, I discovered that newereL >>>FTP servers may not allow the above scenario to work.  In particular, theM >>>FTP server checks to see what the source of the control connection is, andaD >>>if it's different from the address specified as the client's data >>
 >>connection,f >>O >>>the server denies the request.  This would seem to describe the behavior I'm L >>>seeing.  In particular, since the control connection is forwarded via theO >>>server's IP address ("<server-IP>"), this is the address that the FTP serverwN >>>sees as the control connection source address, not "<client-IP>".  As such,K >>>the FTP server denies the data request.  If this is what's happening, iskI >>>there any way to work around this restriction, apart from using eitherm >>>"direct FTP" or SCP/SFTP?  P SCP and SFTP do only binary transfers. The SHH kit in TCP/IP V5.4 can only read K and write Stream_LF files (not the tradional 512 byte block binary files). tO Furthermore SCP and SFTP do not run the login command file, which is a problem  M in my view. It contradicts VMS standards (FTP in Unix does not execute login  P command files either, but VMS does), and for me it makes it impossible to setup O the proper logicals for the destination of the data. In a future release their  < may be an option to change this behaviour we have been told.  Q So I'm going to try the FTP tunneling. I hope to be able to report back sometime n next week about my progress.     >>>[...] >  > 
 > Regards, > Mike > --M >              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSEoP >   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingL >            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityL > http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:12:49 GMTa% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>tQ Subject: Re: Product Install of "older" kits warns of deleting "UNDO" directoriest9 Message-ID: <5uGjb.51200$832.14749@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   7 Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com> wrote in messageS% news:bmn5mg$5i4$1@news01.intel.com...eB > I've got a hobbiest VMS system with VMS 7.3-1 installed and mostF > of the recent VMS731_xxxx patches, including VMS731_UPDATE-V0100 and > VMS731_PCSI-V0100. > E > I also have a variety of layered products I'm installing, including F > compilers (e.g., Fortran V7.6).  The kits for these layered products< > were created (apparently) prior to the PCSI-V0100 release. >2E > When I do an, e.g., PROD INSTALL FORTRAN /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA (I mayaA > have the qualifier name wrong...I'm away form the system at thes@ > moment), or even without the /SAVE qualifier, it warns me thatF > (a) there are 6 "undo" directories and (b) that they will be deleted > if I continue. >  > QUESTIONS: >C; >    o Is there any way to retain the UNDO directories when9$ >      installing an older PCSI kit?  G Install the older kits first.  Part of the PCSI docs states that if youa install ANY layered products.eI (Fortran, DFS, C, MQ series... Etc) you will not be able to save the undo  directories prior to that.   >    o Is there a work-around?  ) Install them first.  Then the OS patches.t  + >    o Should I even worry about it???  :-} C Not unless you really think that you will need to undo the patches.    >nE > (I suppose I could identify all the pre-PSCI-V0100 kits and install=+ >   them first, but what have others done?)    Not worried about it.n  
 > Thanks, Ken  > --8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... >  > Ken Fairfield=# > D1C Automation VMS System Support=$ > who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield > where: intel dot com >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:22:08 -0700a, From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com>P Subject: Q: Product Install of "older" kits warns of deleting "UNDO" directories+ Message-ID: <bmn5mg$5i4$1@news01.intel.com>s  @ I've got a hobbiest VMS system with VMS 7.3-1 installed and mostD of the recent VMS731_xxxx patches, including VMS731_UPDATE-V0100 and VMS731_PCSI-V0100.  C I also have a variety of layered products I'm installing, includingnD compilers (e.g., Fortran V7.6).  The kits for these layered products: were created (apparently) prior to the PCSI-V0100 release.  C When I do an, e.g., PROD INSTALL FORTRAN /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA (I mayt? have the qualifier name wrong...I'm away form the system at the-> moment), or even without the /SAVE qualifier, it warns me thatD (a) there are 6 "undo" directories and (b) that they will be deleted if I continue.  
 QUESTIONS:  9    o Is there any way to retain the UNDO directories wheni"      installing an older PCSI kit?    o Is there a work-around?)    o Should I even worry about it???  :-}e  C (I suppose I could identify all the pre-PSCI-V0100 kits and installo)   them first, but what have others done?)r   	Thanks, Ken -- o6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield.! D1C Automation VMS System Support9" who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:55:42 -0400t+ From: "Kenneth E Bartlett" <bartee@cox.net>e1 Subject: Read data from a native format zip disk?e4 Message-ID: <pan.2003.10.16.23.55.40.121917@cox.net>  H I would like to be able to read data from a zip disk that was written toD on a Windoze machine. It is in the format the disk comes in from theI factory. I am relatively new to VMS and have tried PCDisk without success/E so far. PCDisk expects the disk to have a FAT table on it. I used thee8 command 'use d: dkb500: to try to mount it under PCDisk.  H BTW, the disk drive is a SCSI drive in a removeable drive chassis. It isH installed at the slot allocated to SCSI ID 5 since I saw on the web thatJ they supposedly only work at ID 5 or 6 on the SCSI bus and my chassis only supports up to 5.h  I I believe the drive is a Zip100, if that matters. Also I am getting drivetF activity when I run the above command in PCDisk and it ejects the diskJ when I get the 'no file allocation table found' failure. I do not have the? exact failure wording at the moment, I am away from the system.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:16:43 -0400 + From: "Kenneth E Bartlett" <bartee@cox.net>u5 Subject: Re: Read data from a native format zip disk?r4 Message-ID: <pan.2003.10.17.00.16.41.466065@cox.net>  = On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:55:42 -0400, Kenneth E Bartlett wrote:s  J > I would like to be able to read data from a zip disk that was written toF > on a Windoze machine. It is in the format the disk comes in from theC > factory. I am relatively new to VMS and have tried PCDisk withoutnF > success so far. PCDisk expects the disk to have a FAT table on it. IC > used the command 'use d: dkb500: to try to mount it under PCDisk.a > J > BTW, the disk drive is a SCSI drive in a removeable drive chassis. It isJ > installed at the slot allocated to SCSI ID 5 since I saw on the web thatG > they supposedly only work at ID 5 or 6 on the SCSI bus and my chassisl > only supports up to 5. > E > I believe the drive is a Zip100, if that matters. Also I am getting I > drive activity when I run the above command in PCDisk and it ejects the'H > disk when I get the 'no file allocation table found' failure. I do notJ > have the exact failure wording at the moment, I am away from the system.  H I forgot to mention I am running OpenVMS 7.2. I was looking at old postsI that seem to mention that the OS implemented support of zip/jaz drives in I OVMS 7.1. I am sure no one at work has tried to use one since we upgradedrG a couple of years ago to 7.1 and now to 7.2 by just simply mounting thefB stupid thing. Maybe I am trying to do things the hard way based onH everyone telling me the things do not work. I will try it in the morning and see what I get.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:20:22 GMT.4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: SIMHr0 Message-ID: <3F8EE008.75878999@blueyonder.co.uk>   Didier Morandi wrote:a > . > I ran the exec I found in the download area.G > What should I do to "build" it? Learn Windows app dev? You are in ther4 > wrong forum and talking to the wrong person... ;-) >   ; You don't really need to do much more than install the Migw=? unix environment on your PC (highly automated, www.mingw.org), t@ install the lipcap packet capture emulation library, unpack the  Simh kit and type make install.l  > You do need the lipcap library installed on W98 at leat, maybeE later Windows versions have it by default. It was a bit tricky to getw? all the files in the right place at first. Typical unix/windowsa> voodoo stuff, but if you follow the instructions and invoke a 4 degree of lateral intuition it is not too difficult.   Its progress, apparently.a     > D. >  > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > B > > Did you build it yourself on your machine or use a precompiled > > version? > >bI > > I went thru setting up Mingw and compiling on my w98se box earlier in-% > > the year, its not that difficult.1   -- 0 tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:36:57 +0100UO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>J6 Subject: Re: The Uptimes Project -- VMS does very well0 Message-ID: <bmml0a$92o$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:t > In article <bmgsu0$6pq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:< > :Quite how the owner of the offending Linux box managed to8 > :sneek in an upgrade from their older version of Linux; > :to 2.4.20 without a reboot is a question that the owners : > :of the uptime list would do well to address since it is< > :impossible to upgrade a Linux box without rebooting. This > :is also true for OpenVMS. > N >   OpenVMS has supported continuously-available configurations for well over M >   a decade now, and we can perform upgrades and can apply ECOs and maintaineM >   and can serve access to the data and the applications.  More recently, weyL >   have also provided the ability to upgrade or to ECO OpenVMS by rebootingF >   a subset of the Alpha box, and rolling the processors as required. >   ; This would be a domain or the equivalent on GS320/GS1280's.a  < The only way that OpenVMS can provide continuously available< configurations is for it to either be running on a number of2 separate but clustered nodes or clustered domains.  < This is also perfectly possible on a number of other cluster< technologies or applications architectures depending on what9 you are interested in providing. A continuously available 9 platform service or a continuoulsy available application.e  = Indevidual OpenVMS instances still have to be rebooted if youy want to patch or upgrade them.   Regardsh Andrew Harrisona  M >   While we do not currently offer hot/no-reboot-upgrades or ECOs within theiL >   same running host or within the same host instance (an approach that youM >   have specifically refered to here), we can and do achieve this particular.O >   goal using cluster membership and (if needed) multi-instance OpenVMS GalaxypM >   configurations (approaches you neglected to mention, or were unaware of).n > N >   Upgrading within the same and the running operating system context clearlyK >   requires exceedingly fine-grained locking and coordination and control sK >   and the ability to stall or restart activities -- hot software upgrades-L >   are very, very, far from a trivial task for anything other than the mostM >   trivial or most isolated operating system components.  Upgrading within agK >   cluster or among instances within a Galaxy is itself non-trivial, as weo/ >   must maintain the communications protocols.P >    th > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.coms >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:46:01 GMTn4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>@ Subject: Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X0 Message-ID: <3F8EE60C.9CFE7CCC@blueyonder.co.uk>   Wayne Sewell wrote:p > Q > Is anybody successfully doing this?  I have a 23-inch Cinema Display on my mac,.Q > which is running OS X 10.2.8, and I would like to route windows from all my vmsaO > systems onto it, as I am currently doing with a vrc21.  I downloaded X11 fromoO > the mac website, (X11 beta 3 - Xfree86 4.2.1), and have it running, but can'tr > connect from the vms system. > - > $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=fatty/TRANS=TCPIPiE > $ CREATE/TERMINAL=DECTERM/little_font/detached/APPLICATION_KEYPAD -I  >         /LINE_EDITING/insert -) >         /WINDOW=(TITLE="HARPO::WAYNE",- - >                  ICON_NAME="HARPO::WAYNE",-F  >                  INIT=WINDOW,-' >                  background="green",-t> >                  X_POSITION = 10 , Y_POSITION = 80 ,ROWS=24)- > %DECW-E-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open displayo
 > $ exit 1 > 9 > This command procedure works with exceed on a billybox.@ > P > I assume the problem is authorization.  With decwindows, you have to authorizeK > specific nodes and/or users in the session manager before they can createe
 > windows.  L I seem to remember that user level granularity is only available with decnet& connection? Or maybe its a unix thing.   > Q > However, I cannot see how to do this with with X11 as implemented on OS X.  TheeO > preferences Security panel speaks of Xauthority access-control keys, but doesnO > not tell you how to set them up, or how to authorize specific nodes.  I can'tc< > find anything in the motif documentation about xauthority. > K > I found a xauth man page, which appears to be how the .xauthority file is7L > created, but it talks about setting up server nodes with magic cookies and< > says nothing about how the client nodes connect with them. >   K This is documented somewhere for VMS (TCP/IP Services manuals?) as I set upc0 xauth and xaccess on my VMS system a while back.  + Try xauth + on the mac to enable all hosts.e  I > I thought it might be a kerebros thing, but couldn't see anything about  > x-windows there. > P > I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about the raw unix x-windowsP > implementation, but there must be something I can do from the vms side to make > these connections work.  >   Q The XServers I have encountered (not on Mac, though) can be started with securitytR disabled. Usually its something like Xserver -ac. Obviously, you need to decide ifN you are prepared to run with security disabled but it can be a good first step at debugging such problems.m  N My experience (PC not Mac) is that demo versions of commercial Xerver packagesN can also help debug such problems, they tend to be easier to configure and may: include more meaningful messages or troubleshooting tools.  X Good luck. X is great when its working but it was designed b a bunch of unix freaks :-).   D"  W -- n tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:40:56 -0500a( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>O Subject: Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X (sorta solved)a/ Message-ID: <00A27784.5A9CEB47.1@tachysoft.com>d  N >Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM (198.151.12.104) by laurel.tachysoft.com (MX V5.35 >          AnHm) with SMTP for <wayne@tachysoft.com>;n* >          Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:10:30 -05001 >Message-ID: <3F8EE60C.9CFE7CCC@blueyonder.co.uk>S5 >From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>l) >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en-gb] (Win98; I)h >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsA >Subject: Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS Xy+ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiY  >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 >Lines: 69$ >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:46:01 GMT( >X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.ukL >X-Trace: news-text.cableinet.net 1066329961 82.32.114.195 (Thu, 16 Oct 2003 >         19:46:01 BST)k1 >NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:46:01 BSTMD >Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder)9 >Reply-To: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>- >X-Gateway-From: mvb.saic.com0 >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET >h >P >i >Wayne Sewell wrote: >> LR >> Is anybody successfully doing this?  I have a 23-inch Cinema Display on my mac,R >> which is running OS X 10.2.8, and I would like to route windows from all my vmsP >> systems onto it, as I am currently doing with a vrc21.  I downloaded X11 fromP >> the mac website, (X11 beta 3 - Xfree86 4.2.1), and have it running, but can't >> connect from the vms system.t >> e. >> $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=fatty/TRANS=TCPIPF >> $ CREATE/TERMINAL=DECTERM/little_font/detached/APPLICATION_KEYPAD -! >>         /LINE_EDITING/insert -h* >>         /WINDOW=(TITLE="HARPO::WAYNE",-. >>                  ICON_NAME="HARPO::WAYNE",-! >>                  INIT=WINDOW,-t( >>                  background="green",-? >>                  X_POSITION = 10 , Y_POSITION = 80 ,ROWS=24) . >> %DECW-E-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open display >> $ exit 1  >> k: >> This command procedure works with exceed on a billybox. >> cQ >> I assume the problem is authorization.  With decwindows, you have to authorize L >> specific nodes and/or users in the session manager before they can create >> windows.  >oM >I seem to remember that user level granularity is only available with decnet ' >connection? Or maybe its a unix thing.l >  >> rR >> However, I cannot see how to do this with with X11 as implemented on OS X.  TheP >> preferences Security panel speaks of Xauthority access-control keys, but doesP >> not tell you how to set them up, or how to authorize specific nodes.  I can't= >> find anything in the motif documentation about xauthority.. >> kL >> I found a xauth man page, which appears to be how the .xauthority file isM >> created, but it talks about setting up server nodes with magic cookies and-= >> says nothing about how the client nodes connect with them.w >> . >(L >This is documented somewhere for VMS (TCP/IP Services manuals?) as I set up1 >xauth and xaccess on my VMS system a while back.  >k, >Try xauth + on the mac to enable all hosts. >0J >> I thought it might be a kerebros thing, but couldn't see anything about >> x-windows there.s >> eQ >> I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about the raw unix x-windowseQ >> implementation, but there must be something I can do from the vms side to maket >> these connections work. >>   >kR >The XServers I have encountered (not on Mac, though) can be started with securityS >disabled. Usually its something like Xserver -ac. Obviously, you need to decide ifdO >you are prepared to run with security disabled but it can be a good first step1 >at debugging such problems. > O >My experience (PC not Mac) is that demo versions of commercial Xerver packageseO >can also help debug such problems, they tend to be easier to configure and mayd; >include more meaningful messages or troubleshooting tools.n > Y >Good luck. X is great when its working but it was designed b a bunch of unix freaks :-).!      J I want to thank everybody for the help.  The xhost command was part of theO solution.  I still couldn't connect after adding the other nodes or turning offeN authorization completely, but I have determined that the OS X builtin firewallL is the real problem.  It apparently enables only ports it knows about, whichJ doesn't include the x server, and turns off the others.  If I turn off theO firewall, I can create decterms from the vms machines on the mac.  If I turn ita back on, I can't.e  N Obviously this is not the final solution because I can't leave the mac open toL endless assaults from the billyworld.  So I have downloaded a couple of moreN sophisticated firewalls, brickhouse and firewalk, and I will give those a try.  L That would be better anyway, because both of these can filter by ip address,L unlike the simple builtin firewall.  This means that I can have unrestrictedO access to all ports and protocols within my subnet, while still blocking accessp by the internet at large.n   WaynegO ===============================================================================aN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   oO =============================================================================== H Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:18:51 -0400e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>O Subject: Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X (sorta solved)c) Message-ID: <3F8F0B29.4FF6B809@istop.com>m   Wayne Sewell wrote: N > That would be better anyway, because both of these can filter by ip address,N > unlike the simple builtin firewall.  This means that I can have unrestrictedQ > access to all ports and protocols within my subnet, while still blocking accessd > by the internet at large.l  N What is wrong with using your home router to filter traffic from the internet,N allowing more functionality inside your intranet and not having to worry about> firewall simulators working on each machine in your intranet ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:52:01 -0500l( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>O Subject: Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X (sorta solved)t/ Message-ID: <00A27796.AA3505B0.1@tachysoft.com>   N >Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM (198.151.12.104) by laurel.tachysoft.com (MX V5.35 >          AnHm) with SMTP for <wayne@tachysoft.com>;e* >          Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:44:09 -0500* >Message-ID: <3F8F0B29.4FF6B809@istop.com>+ >From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>p+ >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC)  >X-Accept-Language: en >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsP >Subject: Re: using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X (sorta solved)+ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii-  >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit# >X-Forwarded: by - (DeleGate/8.5.4)e	 >Lines: 9-& >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:18:51 -0400$ >X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.caJ >X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1066339085 64.230.46.146 (Thu, 16 Oct 2003 >         17:18:05 EDT)41 >NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:18:05 EDTm >Organization: Bell Sympaticor/ >Reply-To: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  >X-Gateway-From: mvb.saic.comV >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET >s >Wayne Sewell wrote:O >> That would be better anyway, because both of these can filter by ip address,sO >> unlike the simple builtin firewall.  This means that I can have unrestrictedsR >> access to all ports and protocols within my subnet, while still blocking access >> by the internet at large. >NO >What is wrong with using your home router to filter traffic from the internet, O >allowing more functionality inside your intranet and not having to worry about-? >firewall simulators working on each machine in your intranet ?p    N I don't have control of the router.  It's part of the satellite package and isK a black box.  I have readonly access to it, and can check the status of the.5 link to the satellite, but I can't change anything.  aO ===============================================================================HN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   sO ===============================================================================aH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:31:53 -0400-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by wind ) Message-ID: <3F8EE413.8F55727D@istop.com>    On a somewhat related topic:  L There has been a "message" that serial ports are now considered "legacy" forM some time. And there has been a message that the builder fo hardware on whichg/ VMS runs wants to build "legacy-free" hardware.o  M What is the future like with regards to a data interface between a UPS systemeN and a host ? Will UPS continue to use serial ports to communicate with a host,H or are they already switching to USB or eithernet/TCPIP or some other  ?   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 12:13:33 -0700  From: wmr282@hotmail.com (w m r)! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windi= Message-ID: <398c9ca7.0310161113.7cbfe019@posting.google.com>S  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F8E4DF1.1DF32707@istop.com>...k  
 > Shirley VMSn  $ Is that a new port like "Alpha VMS"?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:24:59 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windsK Message-ID: <fgCjb.354912$Lnr1.237673@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > On a somewhat related topic: >tA > There has been a "message" that serial ports are now consideredoG > "legacy" for some time. And there has been a message that the buildertF > fo hardware on which VMS runs wants to build "legacy-free" hardware. >tD > What is the future like with regards to a data interface between aB > UPS system and a host ? Will UPS continue to use serial ports toB > communicate with a host, or are they already switching to USB or" > eithernet/TCPIP or some other  ?  L Most consumer grade UPS now have USB connectivity, and no RS-232 serial port
 interface.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:29:43 GMTh9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>c! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windh2 Message-ID: <XcDjb.7214$ng5.6764@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Message from whom?  I think you are mistaken.  I think legacy "COM0" typefI ports might disappear someday, but that will not have anything to do withe* the availability of a console serial port.  I And yes, USB and TCPIP are the way to go with intellegent power supplies.  It just makes much more sense.    7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messages# news:3F8EE413.8F55727D@istop.com...i > On a somewhat related topic: >yJ > There has been a "message" that serial ports are now considered "legacy" foraI > some time. And there has been a message that the builder fo hardware ony whichr1 > VMS runs wants to build "legacy-free" hardware.g >iH > What is the future like with regards to a data interface between a UPS systemJ > and a host ? Will UPS continue to use serial ports to communicate with a host, J > or are they already switching to USB or eithernet/TCPIP or some other  ?   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 15:46:04 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by wind 3 Message-ID: <M3xIj12fZDqY@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  W In article <3F8EC544.4090105@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:"  & > Sure, blame VMS for everything.  :-)  8 Any sailor knows that the cause of the wind is the Sun !   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 15:46:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windm3 Message-ID: <33Q7nVPpceU5@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  ` In article <398c9ca7.0310161113.7cbfe019@posting.google.com>, wmr282@hotmail.com (w m r) writes:] > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F8E4DF1.1DF32707@istop.com>...a >  >> Shirley VMS > & > Is that a new port like "Alpha VMS"?  D Where are the revisionist historians to make it be OpenVMS Shirley ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:51:37 -0400e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windi4 Message-ID: <1031016182430.403A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  $ On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, JF Mezei wrote:   > On a somewhat related topic: > N > There has been a "message" that serial ports are now considered "legacy" forO > some time. And there has been a message that the builder fo hardware on which 1 > VMS runs wants to build "legacy-free" hardware.   H No.  "Legacy" in this context refers to traditional PC hardware.  It hasF nothing to do with VMS except that most middle-vintage Alpha's used PCH hardware for things like serial and parallel ports (because they can getB them cheap and supplies are unlimited) and PC-style floppy disks.   D "Legacy" includes ISA and EISA buses, PC-style serial (9-pin) ports,F PC-style parallel ports, serial and PS2 mice and keyboards, etc.  The H replacements are PCI buses, USB serial and parallel ports, USB printers,E modems, scanners, etc. (the things that used to connect to serial andoD parallel ports), USB keyboards, USB mice, and USB, Firewire and SCSI; external storage (tapes, external DVD writers, disks, etc.)g  6 I'm not sure if IDE/ATA is considered "legacy" or not.  I The advantages of these for PC manufacturers are huge.  Since USB devicestB can identify themselves, autoconfiguration (plug-and-play) is muchG easier and more reliable.  PCI deals with interrupts and DMA infinitely:C better than the retarded ISA bus, and is many times faster.  (Don'tn@ know if it is as clever a design as the Unibus or Qbus, though.)  H They only need to put a USB interface chip on the motherboard to replaceC all the random things in an old-style PC, and then the customer can C configure the system as he desires.  (Ever try to put 2 PS2 mice ons> a PC?)  Everything else is just a small matter of programming.  < Getting rid of all the PC crap hardware is a *GOOD* *THING*.  O > What is the future like with regards to a data interface between a UPS system P > and a host ? Will UPS continue to use serial ports to communicate with a host,J > or are they already switching to USB or eithernet/TCPIP or some other  ?  @ If you need serial ports, just get a USB serial port hub.  Or anC ethernet terminal server...  (DZ11's were obsolete years before anye1 VMS-capable system used any PC-derived hardware.)y  C Our job here is to beat on HP to let Fred and friends implement the C necessary port drivers for VMS to use all these things on Alpha andhC IA64.  From posts over the last year or so, it sounds like at leastiA some of this work has been done.  We just need to encourage this.o   --   John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:47:21 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by wind : Message-ID: <JSHjb.859$0T1.636@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>  K Were the power lines and poles genuine DEC (HP/Compaq) parts or third partyi substitutes?   -- Andy Bustamanten remove the ASCII 95s to replys    7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message1# news:3F8E4DF1.1DF32707@istop.com...nJ > Tonight,  VMS , the supposedly unstoppable operating system was defeated by& > wind. It took 8 hours to boot again. > L > Shirley VMS should be able to widthstand a 20cm diameter twig falling on a0 > power line and bringing down 3 poles with it ? >sI > I think that the VMS engineers have overlooked something in their code.t VMSe; > is too important to be defeated by a mere twig... :-) :-)S   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 19:27:37 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)e! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windn= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0310161827.22fd64f1@posting.google.com>i  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3F8EC544.4090105@tsoft-inc.com>... > JF Mezei wrote:  > O > > Tonight,  VMS , the supposedly unstoppable operating system was defeated byr( > > wind. It took 8 hours to boot again. > > N > > Shirley VMS should be able to widthstand a 20cm diameter twig falling on a2 > > power line and bringing down 3 poles with it ?  I I would call a bit of wood with 20cm diameter a branch rather than a twig  > > P > > I think that the VMS engineers have overlooked something in their code.  VMS= > > is too important to be defeated by a mere twig... :-) :-)  > >  >   & Even power companies use vms you know!4 And we know enough to have a four node cluster with:B two separate 3 phase external feeds and a standby diesel generator9 two separate ups systems each powering two computer roomss9 the rooms are connected by fddi ring in separete conduitst; each computer room has two alphas - one powered by each upsl% each alpha has two network interfacese? the shared disk array in each room is powered by both ups feedsi  (and has its own battery backup)2 the disk arrays in each computer room are shadowedP > Well, I'd contend that it's not a VMS problem.  If the power company had used S > more robust poles and wire the 'twig' would have been less successful.  Building >8 > a shelter over the lines would also have been prudent. > P > However, a more farsighted power company would have buried lines with backhoe ' > stopping reinforced concrete linings.n  H no! no! can you imagine how many times they would dig up the fibre optic/ cable while putting the power lines undergroundk Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:56:37 -04002% From: Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net>r! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by wind < Message-ID: <howard-FF77FB.21563716102003@enews.newsguy.com>  ) In article <3F8E4DF1.1DF32707@istop.com>,l,  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  N > I think that the VMS engineers have overlooked something in their code.  VMS; > is too important to be defeated by a mere twig... :-) :-)t  G I have to agree.  Such a small twig should NOT be able to stop VMS.  I u: blame the management for not providing an appropriate UPS.  . OTOH, if that twig fell on the system itself,  maaaaaaaaaaaaayybeeeeeee....   -- MD You are what you eat, therefore, I'm a vegetable!  Cows and chickens and Pop Tarts are too.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:57:39 -0400M% From: Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net>t! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windo< Message-ID: <howard-A8F9DC.21573916102003@enews.newsguy.com>  3 In article <i9FnFuluZp11@eisner.encompasserve.org>,:/  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:t  F > But probably nobody has sufficient power companies available to themE > for this to be a justification for adding floating point to DCL :-)   I <giggle>  Deregulation, man.  You've got to have provision for the power @ company going bankrupt.'   -- aD You are what you eat, therefore, I'm a vegetable!  Cows and chickens and Pop Tarts are too.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:59:22 -0400 % From: Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net>i! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windF< Message-ID: <howard-D3420B.21592216102003@enews.newsguy.com>  ) In article <3F8EE413.8F55727D@istop.com>,e,  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  C > Will UPS continue to use serial ports to communicate with a host,'J > or are they already switching to USB or eithernet/TCPIP or some other  ?   The latter.    --  D You are what you eat, therefore, I'm a vegetable!  Cows and chickens and Pop Tarts are too.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 19:45:41 -0700# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)S! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by windr= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0310161845.2700aa42@posting.google.com>e  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3F8E8608.3DF012C2@aaa.com>...  > Nic Clews wrote: > > I > > Which begs the question, will VMS have a DCL command to switch on/offtH > > and select power supplies, based on the (different) power companies'( > > current rate for the electricity ;-) > @ > And the rates should of course be automaticly fetched from theA > power companies web sites and the switching beeing automated...o >  > :-)b >  > Jan-Erik.n not a problem in .auI http://www.nemmco.com.au/mms/GRAPHS/GRAPH_30NSW1.CSV (30 minute interval) H http://www.nemmco.com.au/mms/GRAPHS/GRAPH_5NSW1.CSV  (5 minute interval) Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:07:37 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>! Subject: Re: VMS defeated by wind ) Message-ID: <3F8F5CD0.84E78F42@istop.com>l  
 dooley wrote:cJ > no! no! can you imagine how many times they would dig up the fibre optic1 > cable while putting the power lines undergrounde > Phil  L Yep. In my case, the place where the branch fell is right next to a mainlineL railway that has lots of fibre underneath that links montreal to toronto andM western canada. So if the hydro company were to dig up in that area, they maye- end up cutting into lots of glass strands :-(I  M We are only 250 subscribers on that circuit, the rest of the neighbourhood isrL on a  differently routed power supply that doesn't go under all those trees.L Problem is that the weak link in our circuit is actually in a different townM and serves 0 customers of that town, so that town has 0 motivation to pay the   hydro company to bury the cable.  N Similarly, our phone lines also get mighty near to those tracks. Back in 1992,L one train derailed and took out the concentrator for the whole neighbourhoodH that was next to the tracks. The phone company was surprisingly quick to4 rebuild it but it is still right next to the tracks.  N Unfortunatly, when folks choose a location, they rarely get the opportunity toL study power and telco cable routings. The one that I haven't figured out yetM is the coax cable routing to the nearest fibre optic point. But that is of notI consequence anymore since I no longer do business with the cable company.D   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:20:06 +0000 (UTC)a From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: W2K patches) Message-ID: <bmmngm$oag$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>m  a In article <bnSk4y4K9inw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:cK >In article <bmmi2d$mc7$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:ob >> In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEEJIEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J >>>I saw a news story this morning that MS had announced 5 new patches andM >>>they further stated that in the future they were going to post new patchesy2 >>>on the first Tuesday or Wednesday of each month >>>i >> tP >> Yes, Microsoft's great idea. People are complaining about how frequently theyO >> have to patch Microsoft systems. So Microsoft decide they will only release . >> patches once a month. a >>   >> See t >> mN >> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security >> /bulletin/revsbwp.asp >>  A >> They claim this is in response to extensive customer feedback.aK >> I don't know who the hell they talked to but I'd much rather know about @H >> vulnerabilities, workarounds and patches at the earliest opportunity. >>   >o9 >	Overheard a conversation that runs along these lines...r >e< >	"I'm sick of it, I'm recommending we don't put anything on >	Windows."e > I >	"You mean to tell me we should cluster everything , twice the licenses,s >	twice the patches?   >e: >	"We cluster so we can failover?  That's how you maintain= >	application availability?  That's your idea of Enterprise?"s >r >--- >SG >	I know folks that have had to reboot servers after patching twice in l6 >	the last two weeks and now will have to do it again. >pA >	So yes, I bet it is customer feedback driven - very much so.  InB >	know some very angry folks.  Can't speak for them but I'd assume: >	(at this point) they'd much rather have it all melt down6 >	totally instead of *wasting* their lives (literally): >	in a never-ending patch/boot/patch/boot/patch/boot cycle? >	on many servers.  Ask around, it is the same thing with a lotm7 >	of Weendoze folks.  It wasn't ever funny - now it is 7 >	disgusting (patch/boot). >   K Yes but Microsoft is taking away the organisations choice of when to patch.SN I'd rather get the patches as soon as possible. Apply them on our test systems9 and then schedule when to apply them on the live systems.   M With patches only appearing once a month you have a greater number of patcheseJ to test, with probably a greater urgency since the worm writers have knownK about the vulnerabilities longer. You can't just put all the patches on the2O test systems since if it causes problems you then don't know which patch caused  the problem.    J The organisation will still have to apply multiple patches to fix the sameM (or extremely closely related) vulnerability (like the RPC/ Blaster patches) wM since until Microsoft release the first patch the security testing companies )+ won't have seen what Microsoft have missed.   A This once a month approach just makes the patch/boot cycle worse.,      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    D >	Problem is the window is open wide.  All the virus writers have toG >	do is turn around in less than a month and suddenly you have a patch  C >	cycle that doesn't line up.  I'll bet that the once a month thingeE >	gets tossed out the window the first time the viri folks do a quicknG >	turnaround on a nice wormy and the patch cycle isn't due for 10 days.c >. >				Rob >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:51:19 GMTu4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: W2K patches0 Message-ID: <3F8EE74A.A432BAC9@blueyonder.co.uk>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:t  o > M > Yes but Microsoft is taking away the organisations choice of when to patch.-P > I'd rather get the patches as soon as possible. Apply them on our test systems; > and then schedule when to apply them on the live systems.R > O > With patches only appearing once a month you have a greater number of patches.L > to test, with probably a greater urgency since the worm writers have knownM > about the vulnerabilities longer. You can't just put all the patches on the>Q > test systems since if it causes problems you then don't know which patch caused  > the problem. > L > The organisation will still have to apply multiple patches to fix the sameN > (or extremely closely related) vulnerability (like the RPC/ Blaster patches)N > since until Microsoft release the first patch the security testing companies- > won't have seen what Microsoft have missed.a > C > This once a month approach just makes the patch/boot cycle worse.m >   eQ Surely doing all this stuff at least vaguely sensibly and methodically is causingp[ M$ TCO to skyrocket? Even without the colander-as-ship approach to security and reliabilityM8 people with power surely must notice this at some point.   -- o tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:52:28 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a Subject: Re: W2K patchesI Message-ID: <MNBjb.354892$Lnr1.9715@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:o5 > In article <bnSk4y4K9inw@eisner.encompasserve.org>,o/ > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: E >> In article <bmmi2d$mc7$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uko
 >> writes:B >>> In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEEJIEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom$ >>> Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:@ >>>> I saw a news story this morning that MS had announced 5 newG >>>> patches and they further stated that in the future they were going H >>>> to post new patches on the first Tuesday or Wednesday of each month >>>> >>> A >>> Yes, Microsoft's great idea. People are complaining about howr >>> frequently theyiG >>> have to patch Microsoft systems. So Microsoft decide they will only  >>> releases >>> patches once a month.t >>>t >>> Seee >>>a >>>oK http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/securitye >>> /bulletin/revsbwp.aspc >>>gB >>> They claim this is in response to extensive customer feedback.E >>> I don't know who the hell they talked to but I'd much rather knowr	 >>> abouty< >>> vulnerabilities, workarounds and patches at the earliest >>> opportunity. >>>t >>: >> Overheard a conversation that runs along these lines... >>= >> "I'm sick of it, I'm recommending we don't put anything on  >> Windows." >>@ >> "You mean to tell me we should cluster everything , twice the >> licenses, twice the patches?- >>; >> "We cluster so we can failover?  That's how you maintainO> >> application availability?  That's your idea of Enterprise?" >> >> --- >>G >> I know folks that have had to reboot servers after patching twice inm7 >> the last two weeks and now will have to do it again.- >>B >> So yes, I bet it is customer feedback driven - very much so.  IC >> know some very angry folks.  Can't speak for them but I'd assumen; >> (at this point) they'd much rather have it all melt down07 >> totally instead of *wasting* their lives (literally) ; >> in a never-ending patch/boot/patch/boot/patch/boot cyclea@ >> on many servers.  Ask around, it is the same thing with a lot7 >> of Weendoze folks.  It wasn't ever funny - now it is, >> disgusting (patch/boot).  >> >.F > Yes but Microsoft is taking away the organisations choice of when to > patch.C > I'd rather get the patches as soon as possible. Apply them on our  > test systems; > and then schedule when to apply them on the live systems.n >eG > With patches only appearing once a month you have a greater number of 	 > patchesTF > to test, with probably a greater urgency since the worm writers have > known F > about the vulnerabilities longer. You can't just put all the patches > on theD > test systems since if it causes problems you then don't know which > patch caused > the problem. > G > The organisation will still have to apply multiple patches to fix thesB > same (or extremely closely related) vulnerability (like the RPC/ > Blaster patches)D > since until Microsoft release the first patch the security testing > companiese- > won't have seen what Microsoft have missed.n >aC > This once a month approach just makes the patch/boot cycle worse.  >e >, >c > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >r >eE >> Problem is the window is open wide.  All the virus writers have to G >> do is turn around in less than a month and suddenly you have a patchaD >> cycle that doesn't line up.  I'll bet that the once a month thingF >> gets tossed out the window the first time the viri folks do a quickH >> turnaround on a nice wormy and the patch cycle isn't due for 10 days. >> >> Rob  K Of course Microsoft's policy makes sense. Now everyone will have at least auK guaranteed 3-day weekend each month - the workers with get an extra day offaE and the IT guys will be pulling a 3-day all-nighter at the same time.e  J Won't do much for organizations that need to close their books on a timely* basis and run their accounting on Windows.  L Sorry, we have to take your heart-lung bypass machine off-line to apply some6 patches. You may experience some temporary discomfort.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:55:39 GMTv4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: W2K patches0 Message-ID: <3F8EE84E.96F25286@blueyonder.co.uk>   John Smith wrote:o  r > N > Sorry, we have to take your heart-lung bypass machine off-line to apply some8 > patches. You may experience some temporary discomfort.  C Sorry, we have to take your aircraft carrier off-line to apply someo6 patches. You may experience some permament discomfort.   -- e tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:42:39 -0400d* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: W2K patches) Message-ID: <3F8EE697.8D337ABE@istop.com>    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:0C > This once a month approach just makes the patch/boot cycle worse.w  F Nop. Instead of scheduling 5 hours per day of downtime to test/installL patches, you will schedule 2 days per month of downtime to test the patches.M And it is then more likely that Microsoft will release a single monthly patcha1 that contains all the fixes. (if they are smart).0  L My worry about this is when a new virus spreads, will customers have to wait( up to one month before getting a patch ?  L My feeling is that customers who purchase some sort of support contract fromM Microsoft will get the patches right away, but those without any support willd have to wait one month.n  K If that is the case, then one should be worried. It could mean that virusesnL will wreak havok on the internet and essentially result in denial of serviceJ due to overloaded servers. (that is the case witght now to SMTP servers at
 Bell Canada).   N Of course, on the upside, perhaps ISPs will start denying service to customersV who run any Microsoft software since they are much more likely to be causing problems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:34:38 -0600-8 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> Subject: Re: W2K patches1 Message-ID: <zhDjb.739$oP4.13808@news.uswest.net>e  E I read the entire posting at Microsoft, and buried in the middle is adA statement that "emergency" patches will be released out of cycle. E Basically, there's no change to how MS is releasing critical securitycI patches.  However, the monthly patches will probably supercede any out ofcH cycle patches that were made, similar to how Windows 2000 Service Pack 4@ removed almost all the critical updates that came out before it.  E In other words, status quo on the security patches, but mini-securityI* rollups each month for those who can wait.   Mike.H    7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3F8EE697.8D337ABE@istop.com... ! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:OE > > This once a month approach just makes the patch/boot cycle worse.  >$H > Nop. Instead of scheduling 5 hours per day of downtime to test/installE > patches, you will schedule 2 days per month of downtime to test the  patches.I > And it is then more likely that Microsoft will release a single monthly  patcha3 > that contains all the fixes. (if they are smart).e > I > My worry about this is when a new virus spreads, will customers have tox wait* > up to one month before getting a patch ? >oI > My feeling is that customers who purchase some sort of support contracta fromJ > Microsoft will get the patches right away, but those without any support will > have to wait one month.c >cE > If that is the case, then one should be worried. It could mean thatt viruses F > will wreak havok on the internet and essentially result in denial of servicesL > due to overloaded servers. (that is the case witght now to SMTP servers at > Bell Canada).n >bF > Of course, on the upside, perhaps ISPs will start denying service to	 customersrF > who run any Microsoft software since they are much more likely to be causing problems.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:30:44 -0700t* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> Subject: Re: W2K patches2 Message-ID: <CMqdnZP8xOpoYhOiU-KYvg@mpowercom.net>  A "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in messageo* news:3F8EE84E.96F25286@blueyonder.co.uk...E > Sorry, we have to take your aircraft carrier off-line to apply somev8 > patches. You may experience some permament discomfort. >tE I believe that's exactly what the U.S. Navy does.  Out of the ten (?)yI carrier battle groups a portion are allocated for repair and refit.  IIRCuJ from recent news about the time the USS Reagan was made active the defenseC dept is trying to keep available carriers around 7 or 8 for wartimee operations.e  L Yes Windows is a sorry excuse for an OS, yes the patches are ridiculous, butI then no one ever had 100 million plus users for an OS before.  I'm not ateK all convinced VMS wouldn't have similar problems if it had to meet the same L hardware and services criteria as Microsoft.  If VMS Engineering expanded toJ 500 times it's current size could they guarantee the same quality level asG now?  We'll never know, because we aren't going to see VMS and "expand" ) occur in the same line in any news story.l  F It's easy to take the cheap shot while sitting in the ivory tower, butE remember Windows customers are not concerned that their investment incH Windows hardware and software will vanish in the near term.  Or worryingA about finding a job because their skills are considered obsolete.t  K The cost of moving Windows programs to AMD64 is a tiny fraction of the costoH to move from Alpha to Itanium.  That alone made us decide to end our VMSL development.  It helped that VMS inquiries also went to just about zero (one* in the last six months, and it was a dud).    Jack Peacocki   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:00:12 -0500h( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> Subject: Re: W2K patches/ Message-ID: <00A27787.0BCC031F.1@tachysoft.com>=   >=K >Won't do much for organizations that need to close their books on a timelyt+ >basis and run their accounting on Windows.p >wM >Sorry, we have to take your heart-lung bypass machine off-line to apply some=7 >patches. You may experience some temporary discomfort.a >l  N If they're stupid enough to put critical operations on billyboxes in the first4 place, they won't be in business much longer anyway.O ===============================================================================eN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   cO ===============================================================================eH Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"o   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 15:55:38 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)h Subject: Re: W2K patches3 Message-ID: <aaE1eSCapY9H@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  J In article <bmmngm$oag$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:c > In article <bnSk4y4K9inw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: L >>In article <bmmi2d$mc7$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes:c >>> In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEEJIEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:tK >>>>I saw a news story this morning that MS had announced 5 new patches andhN >>>>they further stated that in the future they were going to post new patches3 >>>>on the first Tuesday or Wednesday of each month< >>>> >>> Q >>> Yes, Microsoft's great idea. People are complaining about how frequently they4P >>> have to patch Microsoft systems. So Microsoft decide they will only release  >>> patches once a month.  >>>  >>> See  >>> O >>> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/securityt >>> /bulletin/revsbwp.aspe >>> B >>> They claim this is in response to extensive customer feedback.L >>> I don't know who the hell they talked to but I'd much rather know about I >>> vulnerabilities, workarounds and patches at the earliest opportunity.  >>>  >>: >>	Overheard a conversation that runs along these lines... >>= >>	"I'm sick of it, I'm recommending we don't put anything onn >>	Windows." >>J >>	"You mean to tell me we should cluster everything , twice the licenses, >>	twice the patches?  S >>; >>	"We cluster so we can failover?  That's how you maintains> >>	application availability?  That's your idea of Enterprise?" >> >>---m >>H >>	I know folks that have had to reboot servers after patching twice in 7 >>	the last two weeks and now will have to do it again.n >>B >>	So yes, I bet it is customer feedback driven - very much so.  IC >>	know some very angry folks.  Can't speak for them but I'd assumei; >>	(at this point) they'd much rather have it all melt downw7 >>	totally instead of *wasting* their lives (literally)a; >>	in a never-ending patch/boot/patch/boot/patch/boot cycle @ >>	on many servers.  Ask around, it is the same thing with a lot8 >>	of Weendoze folks.  It wasn't ever funny - now it is  >>	disgusting (patch/boot).= >> > M > Yes but Microsoft is taking away the organisations choice of when to patch.hP > I'd rather get the patches as soon as possible. Apply them on our test systems; > and then schedule when to apply them on the live systems.= >   ) 	That is you.  I'm assuming a few things.=  > 		1) You don't have hundreds of severs and 4 support personnelG                 2) Because of 1) you aren't performing many patches and E                    reboots in your spare time (dozens/hundreds of man-
 			hours).  = 	If Microsoft goes to a monthly model, when/if things go verynE 	bad the support personnel can say:  "We haven't received that patch" = 	and it will be the truth.  As it stands now (and what I havecC 	personally seen) is the patch becomes available , you schedule thetB 	patch for a weekend and a worm comes in and wrecks havoc.  SeniorG 	management says:  "Why wasn't the patch applied?"  "Exhaustion" is an eD 	inadequate answer.  Now you must patch CRITICAL as soon as you can., 	So if a monthly cycle comes along, not only< 	can you plan for it but you can also quit becoming a Zombie8 	(work during the day, patch at night) in many cases andB 	maybe miss a patch cycle or two.  In other words, from a support 0 	standpoint it is a very good thing.  BUT as youA 	point out it is a very bad thing as it stretches your timelines.w  B 	Anyhow, if the patch is of a CRITICAL nature it will get released? 	immediately.  Hopefully, the only thing this new release cycle-4         does do is get management calmed down a bit.                        o 	cO > With patches only appearing once a month you have a greater number of patcheseL > to test, with probably a greater urgency since the worm writers have knownM > about the vulnerabilities longer. You can't just put all the patches on theeQ > test systems since if it causes problems you then don't know which patch causedh > the problem.    8 	But the issue is exhaustion.  Ask around.  I know folksA 	that are exhausted.  Sure you are stretching timelines with your < 	testing cycle on top of monthly releases of patches, but it8 	is a resource issue.  Patch Mules.  I saw a Dice Ad for 	a Patch Mule (just kidding).  m   	A crazy issue, eh?u   > L > The organisation will still have to apply multiple patches to fix the sameO > (or extremely closely related) vulnerability (like the RPC/ Blaster patches)  O > since until Microsoft release the first patch the security testing companies h- > won't have seen what Microsoft have missed.. > C > This once a month approach just makes the patch/boot cycle worse.M >                                ? 	Worse?  Absolutely.  But at least your staff won't be quittingyA 	because they have had enough and want a life.  So when Microsoft @ 	says customer demand, I suspect they mostly interviewed/queriedA 	support personnel THAT DESPERATLEY NEEDS THE PATCH TIMELINES TO	eI         LENGTHEN OR BECOME PREDICTABLE INSTEAD OF AD HOC.  Certainly not h 	management's wishes."  : 	A closing ... these are my observations, I'm not patchingB 	but have had conversations.  I've been wrong in the past, I couldA         be off the mark on this subject too.  But this is USENET.h   				Robu   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 15:57:13 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)r Subject: Re: W2K patches3 Message-ID: <DtKaXNLlDitQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  V In article <3F8EE697.8D337ABE@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:eD >> This once a month approach just makes the patch/boot cycle worse. > H > Nop. Instead of scheduling 5 hours per day of downtime to test/installN > patches, you will schedule 2 days per month of downtime to test the patches.O > And it is then more likely that Microsoft will release a single monthly patch-3 > that contains all the fixes. (if they are smart).4 > N > My worry about this is when a new virus spreads, will customers have to wait* > up to one month before getting a patch ? >   > 	No - from what I understand that will be a critical patch and         released immediately.c   				Robw   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:33:39 GMTE# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>S Subject: Re: W2K patchesK Message-ID: <71Fjb.355195$Lnr1.190762@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>i   Tim Llewellyn wrote:! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  >e >>G >> Yes but Microsoft is taking away the organisations choice of when to:G >> patch. I'd rather get the patches as soon as possible. Apply them ongD >> our test systems and then schedule when to apply them on the live >> systems.  >>E >> With patches only appearing once a month you have a greater number"E >> of patches to test, with probably a greater urgency since the wormdF >> writers have known about the vulnerabilities longer. You can't justF >> put all the patches on the test systems since if it causes problems6 >> you then don't know which patch caused the problem. >>D >> The organisation will still have to apply multiple patches to fixG >> the same (or extremely closely related) vulnerability (like the RPC/yE >> Blaster patches) since until Microsoft release the first patch thenA >> security testing companies won't have seen what Microsoft haves
 >> missed. >>D >> This once a month approach just makes the patch/boot cycle worse. >> >s; > Surely doing all this stuff at least vaguely sensibly andn > methodically is causingyD > M$ TCO to skyrocket? Even without the colander-as-ship approach toG > security and reliability people with power surely must notice this ate
 > some point.   I No. Most, but not all, executives are stupider than you think, especiallyi. about matters outside their area of expertise.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:22:39 -0400p0 From: "Homer Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> Subject: Re: W2K patches8 Message-ID: <5SEjb.4565$h47.4224@bignews4.bellsouth.net>  L Look at the bright side.  More employment opportunities for job seekers!  WeJ have at least 2 more departments that had to be formed to keep up with theL patches and viruses.  Battening down the hatches is now a high priority.  WeK learned the hard way that reacting to worms and viruses is much more costlytE than proactive work, which is also expensive.  Also, we are investinghD heavily in migrating off the MS platform because Windows patching isH becoming unaffordable!  Unfortunately, however, VMS is not in the cards.   Linux-bound   :(    5 "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in message ) news:00A27787.0BCC031F.1@tachysoft.com...U > >rF > >Won't do much for organizations that need to close their books on a timely- > >basis and run their accounting on Windows.v > >rJ > >Sorry, we have to take your heart-lung bypass machine off-line to apply some9 > >patches. You may experience some temporary discomfort.l > >n > J > If they're stupid enough to put critical operations on billyboxes in the firstw6 > place, they won't be in business much longer anyway. > L ============================================================================ ===-: > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738 wayne@tachysoft.com : > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html >nL ============================================================================ ===nJ > Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."3 >    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:41:16 GMTF9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>u. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?2 Message-ID: <MnDjb.7217$ag5.6672@news.cpqcorp.net>  E THIS ISN'T A BETA.  THIS ISN'T EVEN AN ALPHA.  THIS IS A PRE-RELEASE,eL UNTUNED, KICK-THE-TIRES, "HEY COOL LOOK - IT'S JUST VMS AFTER ALL" - PEEK AT OPENVMS I64.  J IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THIS WAS ON A NITROGEN COOLED OVERCLOCKED 8GHz, 128GBH CACHE MONSTER -- IT WOULD STILL BE SLOW COMPARED TO ANY OTHER OS ON THAT0 HARDWARE, OR TO VMS ON CURRENT ALPHA TECHNOLOGY.  I This applies a great deal *even* to the V8.1 Evaluation release.  We willfJ *not* be turning our attention to performance until the production releaseL next year.  Correctness and completness is our _only_ concern right now.  We@ don't even BOOT on the "fastest" hardware (read: Superdome) yet.  D Would you prefer we simply limit access only to ISV's signing a NDA?    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:tMkhb.158976$3r1.5152@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...K > I, and we here all understand that. But when the PHB (pointy-haired boss) K > asks 'How'd your test on that IA64 thing go?' and you answer 'It was sloweK > but that's to be expected at this stage of the VMS port and on the box it 5 > was running on.', the PHB only hears "It was slow".o >nJ > No offense to you Fred, but it's a myriad of things that HP collectivelyK > needs to do to portray VMS as positively as possible, and having the betamI > versios of the VMS port running on the fastest hardware is a step alonga thatL > road. VMS can't afford to lose ANY customers, for any reason. How freakin'J > hard is it to get the fastest box installed? And I hope to hell that youD > aren't going to say that it needs to go through the Priorities and PlanningK > Committee that meets once per quarter on Tuesdays but only if the moon ism > full.u > J > Please ask to have the beta/in-progress 'test drive' always available on thei > currently fastest machine. >w	 > Thanks.a >b >  >d >. > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > > We are torn about trying to the the "right" thing.  We want people toiH > > be able to try things, port things, check it out - as soon as we canD > > get them stuff that works.  But we don't want it used to club usF > > bloody about performance - which we EXPLICITLY have NOT addressed.> > > The release is built mostly unoptimized.  Debug stuff likeH > > SYSTEM_CHECK are enabled.  The compiler back-end generates Itanium-1 > > optimized code.  > >tH > > Drawing conclusions about V8.0 performance to the production releaseI > > in 2004, would be like using Alpha V1.0 Beta as a characterization ofh > > Alpha VMS performance. > >t > >e > >a2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageG > > news:SeUgb.143438$3r1.40430@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...e > >>? > >> On the one hand the fact that a test system of any sort ist! > >> 'available' is a good thing.y > >>E > >> On the other hand, having a test system publicly available which I > >> performs more poorly than the current 'state of the art' IA64 systemaI > >> does HP no service whatsoever. Early opinions and judgements will betI > >> formed on the basis of the lesser system. HP should be ensuring that2H > >> the very 1st machine of each iteration is available for public testF > >> drives to ensure that the opportunity exists to put its best foot+ > >> forward at the earliest possible time.b > >>D > >> Many managements will take the test result you garner from thisG > >> slowpoke system and say 'That's what the numbers say - the numberstI > >> don't lie. I have to justify our future direction based on facts notrH > >> HP promises.' It may be short-sighted, it may be wrong, but it does > >> happen. >- >-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:45:54 GMTu9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>h. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?2 Message-ID: <6sDjb.7219$mh5.6511@news.cpqcorp.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:tMkhb.158976$3r1.5152@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...K > I, and we here all understand that. But when the PHB (pointy-haired boss)a? > asks 'How'd your test on that IA64 thing go?' and you answer:   L Your answer should be:  Compiled it, Linked it, Ran it.  No real problems toJ speak of, a few minor edits - VMS is VMS is VMS.  We're in good shape, andK will be ready to go on IPF as soon as VMS finishes their production releasetK next year.  We'll pick up the SDK kit when it comes out, and do any cleanupFI we may need to our common code pool.  Until then, we have enough headroomqG with our Alpha systems (man those GS1280's kick butt) that we can slidew9 those IA64 systems into our cluster over time seamlessly.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:31:25 -0400b% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> . Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?/ Message-ID: <vou3hegg1tvub6@news.supernews.com>r  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:6sDjb.7219$mh5.6511@news.cpqcorp.net... >A0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD > news:tMkhb.158976$3r1.5152@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...G > > I, and we here all understand that. But when the PHB (pointy-haired  boss) A > > asks 'How'd your test on that IA64 thing go?' and you answer:o >oK > Your answer should be:  Compiled it, Linked it, Ran it.  No real problemsh toH > speak of, a few minor edits - VMS is VMS is VMS.  We're in good shape, and...  C Which was exactly our experience when we ported our product (JAMS).bI Compiled, linked, ran.  Had a few minor problems.  Overall, VMS is VMS is  VMS.  
 Great job!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:16:45 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?) Message-ID: <3F8F0AAB.5AB111F9@istop.com>n   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > G > THIS ISN'T A BETA.  THIS ISN'T EVEN AN ALPHA.  THIS IS A PRE-RELEASE,oN > UNTUNED, KICK-THE-TIRES, "HEY COOL LOOK - IT'S JUST VMS AFTER ALL" - PEEK AT > OPENVMS I64.  N Sorry, from my point of view, based on comments I read here,  it is still very
 much beta:@ 	-more important to keep box up than to showcase its performance6 	-still a pressing need to have the debugging code on.! 	-not yet commercially available.   J You may call it differently internally, but to the outside world, I really. don't see how would could call it differently.  M It is not an insult or derogatory statement. "beta" is a normal step prior todN making a product commercially available. And everyone undestands that even VMS$ has to go through a debugging phase.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:29:43 -0400-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?) Message-ID: <3F8F0DB4.4432D4DB@istop.com>$   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > Your answer should be:  Compiled it, Linked it, Ran it.  No real problems to3 > speak of, a few minor edits - VMS is VMS is VMS. .  L How come PPP isn't available on VAX ? How come ACM services aren't available0 on VAX ? How come ODS5 isn't available on VAX ?   N Granted, the information given so far leads one to believe that if there is toH be a common code base between Alpha and IA64, one could expect far fewerK differences between Alpha and IA64 than between VAX and Alpha.  But so far,YL the experience between VAx and Alpha has shown that VMS isn't quite the sameN on different platforms when the owner decides to abandon one of the platforms.  G Will my ALL-IN-1 scripts run on IA64 ? Nop, because Carly/Curly are not.G porting it to IA64. (so much for that promise of porting all software).b  M Also, since you guys have abandonned display postscript at 7.3, it is fair to F state that display postscript, available on vax and alpha, will not be available on IA64. i  K While I understand that a great effort is being made to end up with similar H software on both, previous decisions, not related directly to the actualE porting project will rtesult on IA64 being different from Alpha beingo different from VAX.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:46:38 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>. Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?2 Message-ID: <idFjb.7235$ie5.5393@news.cpqcorp.net>  + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:t > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> o; >> THIS ISN'T A BETA.  THIS ISN'T EVEN AN ALPHA.  THIS IS A C >> PRE-RELEASE, UNTUNED, KICK-THE-TIRES, "HEY COOL LOOK - IT'S JUSTa( >> VMS AFTER ALL" - PEEK AT OPENVMS I64.  D > Sorry, from my point of view, based on comments I read here, it is > still very much beta:*  @ I may be wrong, but I get the impression that Fred was trying toE convey that the software was even more preliminary than beta, or evenwD alpha.  Perhaps there is a disagreement in what each of you consider* the meaning/implications of "pre-release?"  
 rick jones -- wG oxymoron n, commuter in a gas-guzzling luxury SUV with an American flagsF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:26:50 GMTbL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"). Subject: Re: What is the performance of iVMS ?6 Message-ID: <00A2778A.C3E38B1C@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  V In article <3F8F0DB4.4432D4DB@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: O >> Your answer should be:  Compiled it, Linked it, Ran it.  No real problems to 4 >> speak of, a few minor edits - VMS is VMS is VMS.  > M >How come PPP isn't available on VAX ? How come ACM services aren't available 1 >on VAX ? How come ODS5 isn't available on VAX ? o >cO >Granted, the information given so far leads one to believe that if there is toiI >be a common code base between Alpha and IA64, one could expect far feweroL >differences between Alpha and IA64 than between VAX and Alpha.  But so far,M >the experience between VAx and Alpha has shown that VMS isn't quite the sameeO >on different platforms when the owner decides to abandon one of the platforms.e >rH >Will my ALL-IN-1 scripts run on IA64 ? Nop, because Carly/Curly are notH >porting it to IA64. (so much for that promise of porting all software).  K I missed where they promised to do that.  They said it would be easy, but I-0 don't remember their saying that they'd do that.   >hN >Also, since you guys have abandonned display postscript at 7.3, it is fair toG >state that display postscript, available on vax and alpha, will not bes >available on IA64.   E You misspelled "Since Adobe refuses to let you use Display PostScripts anymore..."h   >hL >While I understand that a great effort is being made to end up with similarI >software on both, previous decisions, not related directly to the actualuF >porting project will rtesult on IA64 being different from Alpha being >different from VAX.   Yeah.u   -- Alans   -- eO ===============================================================================l0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================j   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Oct 2003 12:51:32 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) A Subject: Re: White paper: CHARON-VAX cluster w/ shared SCSI diskss3 Message-ID: <LnD1StVyF00r@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  ` In article <bmmj9m$nto2l$2@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes: > E > "VMS on IA-32" isn't the problem, but "Charon-VAX on *Windows*" ...c >   E    So if you're going to run Charon-VAX commerically, get the versionoF    that runs on OpenVMS Alpha.  Then you can run your VAX applications.    and still be bullet proof all the way down.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:43:53 GMT$6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>G Subject: Re: [Plug] using x-windows to display vms decterms on Mac OS X : Message-ID: <tPHjb.858$DR1.351@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>  J There's a some good information running DecWindows on an alternate displayJ platform in:  Linux and OpenVMS interoperability, Tricks for Old Dogs, NewH Dogs and Hot Dogs with Open Systems by John Robert Wisniewski.  My Linux3 Linux box now does the video from one of my Alphas.e     -- Andy Bustamantea remove the ASCII 95s to replys      5 "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in messagem) news:00A27762.2041E906.1@tachysoft.com...w >mL > Is anybody successfully doing this?  I have a 23-inch Cinema Display on my mac,J > which is running OS X 10.2.8, and I would like to route windows from all my vmsJ > systems onto it, as I am currently doing with a vrc21.  I downloaded X11 fromI > the mac website, (X11 beta 3 - Xfree86 4.2.1), and have it running, butn can't> > connect from the vms system. > - > $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=fatty/TRANS=TCPIPkE > $ CREATE/TERMINAL=DECTERM/little_font/detached/APPLICATION_KEYPAD -> > /LINE_EDITING/insert -) >         /WINDOW=(TITLE="HARPO::WAYNE",-c- >                  ICON_NAME="HARPO::WAYNE",-s > INIT=WINDOW,-?' >                  background="green",-n- > X_POSITION = 10 , Y_POSITION = 80 ,ROWS=24)"- > %DECW-E-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open display 
 > $ exit 1 >r >f9 > This command procedure works with exceed on a billybox.h >  >dF > I assume the problem is authorization.  With decwindows, you have to	 authorizeIK > specific nodes and/or users in the session manager before they can createt
 > windows. >eL > However, I cannot see how to do this with with X11 as implemented on OS X. The J > preferences Security panel speaks of Xauthority access-control keys, but doesI > not tell you how to set them up, or how to authorize specific nodes.  If can'tI< > find anything in the motif documentation about xauthority. >>K > I found a xauth man page, which appears to be how the .xauthority file is L > created, but it talks about setting up server nodes with magic cookies and< > says nothing about how the client nodes connect with them. >iI > I thought it might be a kerebros thing, but couldn't see anything abouta > x-windows there. >eF > I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about the raw unix	 x-windows K > implementation, but there must be something I can do from the vms side ton make > these connections work.c >e > Waynes >uL ============================================================================ === : > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738 wayne@tachysoft.coml: > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html > L ============================================================================ === J > Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."3 >    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.575 ************************