1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 21 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 584       Contents:P Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?HP_announces_new_AlphaServer_systems_and?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?__e, Re: Any VMS at ITU Telecom World in Geneva?? Re: Clustering over GB Switches ! DCL script to change system time. % Re: DCL script to change system time. % Re: DCL script to change system time. % Re: DCL script to change system time. % DEC Is Dead, Long Live DEC, the book. @ Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities?P Re: HP announces new AlphaServer systems andenhancements to Tru64 =?iso-8859-1?Q? Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results  Re: Kerry Main's e-mail  Kerry Main's e-mail " memory upgrade for uVAX and Alpha?& Re: memory upgrade for uVAX and Alpha?& Re: memory upgrade for uVAX and Alpha?/ Re: OpenVMS 7.3-2 and Oracle RDB (last version) $ Re: openVMS alpha 7.3.1 on PWS600au?$ Re: openVMS alpha 7.3.1 on PWS600au?1 Re: OpenVMS BootCamp BOF - Console Management ROI 2 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive , Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., RE: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried..., Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried...3 PIPE  error "X Toolkit Warning: cannot open display 7 Re: PIPE  error "X Toolkit Warning: cannot open display 7 Re: PIPE  error "X Toolkit Warning: cannot open display  Portents of iVMS birth% Re: Problem with UCX QIOW IO$_SETMODE   Re: Product (PCSI) Info Question  Re: Product (PCSI) Info Question  Re: Product (PCSI) Info Question  Re: Product (PCSI) Info Question& Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?& Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?& Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?& Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?+ SWEP XD Ada planned to be ported to Itanium 5 Temporary VMS Consultant position in Boston, MA, area   We still need Alpha DS10 systems Re: What is ACME_SERVER? Re: What is ACME_SERVER? Re: What is ACME_SERVER?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:10:30 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) Y Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?HP_announces_new_AlphaServer_systems_and?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?__e L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2110030620280001@user-uinj44h.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <a5396d5d.0310200932.b508264@posting.google.com>,( n.rieck@sympatico.ca (Neil Rieck) wrote:    J >Yipee. According to the home page, OpenVMS-7.3-2 was also released today.  G I guess they announced it.  They used the word "introduce". (Neil, meet > V7.3-2;  V7.3-2, meet Neil.)  It sure as heck didn't ship yet.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 08:09:23 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: Any VMS at ITU Telecom World in Geneva?? 3 Message-ID: <FdzMgghV2x2E@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <3F942FEF.573F@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>, Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> writes: > Main, Kerry wrote: > D > This reminds me (and I don't believe that it is already mentioned E > here), that after the Dutch Technical Update days last month, there E > was a half page article on OpenVMS in Computable magazine. Posting  C > it here is not useful (it is in Dutch), but maybe Sue can give a  6 > summary because she's mentioned five times in it :-)  >    A link would be nice, especially if you post a translation.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 08:57:30 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) ( Subject: Re: Clustering over GB Switches= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0310210757.19951558@posting.google.com>   t dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) wrote in message news:<a3c44af1.0310200817.30d1232@posting.google.com>...x > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0310171446.4b53aa6d@posting.google.com>...@ > > Another way to approach this migration would be to leave oneG > > cross-connect cable in place temporarily while you debug the switch @ > > connection using the other Gigabit cards.  Then once the oneA > > connection via the switch is working, convert the other side.  > @ > This seems like an interesting option which had not previouslyF > occurred to me.   How can I monitor the activity on the two adaptersG > ??   In particular, if I move one to the Switch, how can I tell if it  > is active.  B While it's possible to use SCACP (in 7.3 or above, or various SDA>E SHOW LAN commands in earlier versions) to track connectivity, you may E find helpful the two DCL command procedures SHOW_PATHS_ECS.COM (which D displays connectivity between all LAN adapters in the cluster in theE form of a 2-dimensional matrix) and SHOW_SEGMENTS.COM (which produces B an "ASCII art" drawing of the connections among the LAN adapters),? both of which may be found at http://encompasserve.org/~parris/   G > My Network guru is suggesting that I set up a VLAN on the switches so F > that the SCS ports can be "Private", however the switch can still be@ > accessed by the main network for management purposes (and also" > monitored by OpenView, I guess).E > As a non-Network person, I ask the question, "Would this be an O.K. 
 > move ??"  F Yes.  Allowing access to the switch via IP on one port (for monitoringC via SNMP) is harmless, at least in theory.  Personally, I'd want to C make quite sure no IP traffic will be routed onto the SCS VLAN, and C that the SCS VLAN is not bridged out via the IP monitoring port.  I C have a horror story of how a connection between a Cisco network and B the GIGAswtich/FDDI boxes forming the inter-site links in a 2-siteF disaster-tolerant cluster, made so that they could be monitored by theC networks group, coupled with a human error which mistakenly bridged C their LAN to another vendor's DECnet network (causing duplicate MAC D under DECnet Phase IV because everyone uses 1.* addresses) corrupted@ the MAC address forwarding tables in the GIGAswitches and caused; cluster outages resulting in millions of dollars of losses.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 09:15:39 -0700' From: stacksd@zachry.com (David Stacks) * Subject: DCL script to change system time.= Message-ID: <e59331ed.0310210815.77de93f8@posting.google.com>   E Hello, was looking for some help finding a small DCL script that will E change the system time through normal batch run.  This is for vax and A alpha running openvms versions lower than 7.3.  I do not use auto > saving time change with dtss.  Thank you for your help.  David   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:18:49 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon). Subject: Re: DCL script to change system time.1 Message-ID: <03102111184966@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   G > Hello, was looking for some help finding a small DCL script that will G > change the system time through normal batch run.  This is for vax and C > alpha running openvms versions lower than 7.3.  I do not use auto @ > saving time change with dtss.  Thank you for your help.  David  L Hmmmm, must be that time of year again - did someone say Daylight Savings???  M Did you want a scipt that will adjust the time back one hour at 0200?  Or did N you want to slew the clock time to adjust the time back one hour over a 4 or 5 hour time period?          J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:30:15 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> . Subject: Re: DCL script to change system time.L Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310211028100.21116-100000@localhost.localdomain>  # On 21 Oct 2003, David Stacks wrote:   G > Hello, was looking for some help finding a small DCL script that will G > change the system time through normal batch run.  This is for vax and C > alpha running openvms versions lower than 7.3.  I do not use auto @ > saving time change with dtss.  Thank you for your help.  David  E See SYS$EXAMPLES:DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM, at least since VMS 6.2.  Also   refer to the FAQ.      --    4 Rob Brown                        mylastname@gmcl.comA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)4                                  (780)437-3367 (FAX)1                                  http://gmcl.com/    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 12:06:34 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: DCL script to change system time.3 Message-ID: <TFTI1XOGjGVt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <e59331ed.0310210815.77de93f8@posting.google.com>, stacksd@zachry.com (David Stacks) writes: G > Hello, was looking for some help finding a small DCL script that will G > change the system time through normal batch run.  This is for vax and C > alpha running openvms versions lower than 7.3.  I do not use auto @ > saving time change with dtss.  Thank you for your help.  David  C   As in many things VMS, you'll find the answer is already on your  6   system.  Checkout sys$examples:daylight_savings.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:12:35 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>. Subject: DEC Is Dead, Long Live DEC, the book.4 Message-ID: <3f956918$0$27015$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   (from www.decalumni.com)   DEC Is Dead, Long Live DEC3 The Lasting Legacy of Digital Equipment Corporation   6 A new book by Edgar H. Schein. Read the Press Release 9 (http://www.decalumni.com/pdf/DEC_book_Press_Release.pdf)    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:54:56 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>I Subject: Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities? 2 Message-ID: <vZGdndAFtMI2pwiiU-KYuA@metrocast.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:KcXQCQBfeY$P@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <3f90715c$0$236$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi  <no@spam.com> writes:  > > I > > Wrong. I answered the survey, I remember very well the question and I  > > did ask for this feature.  > G >    Must be quite an ego breaker to learn that your one request is not ( >    enough for HP to do something.  8-(  J What part of the difference between 'no demand' and 'negligible demand' doB you find difficult to comprehend?  The former statement was simplyH incorrect; the latter would be a matter of judgement (e.g., consider theG numerous statements accompanying the Alphacide which suggested that the E customer base was by and large elated at the coming changes...) - but L nonetheless leaves the dissenters (whatever proportion of the total they mayD constitute) understanding that HP doesn't care a rat's ass for them.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:01:15 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) Y Subject: Re: HP announces new AlphaServer systems andenhancements to Tru64 =?iso-8859-1?Q L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2110030611140001@user-uinj44h.dialup.mindspring.com>  0 In article <3F942ACC.F1FB006E@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik1 =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:    >On this page :  > 9 >http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ds15/overview.html  > 
 >it says : > 7 >"The HP AlphaServer DS15 systems are available with a   > 1-GHz Alpha chip, the 21264C"  > ! >That's EV6-something, isn't it ?   0 Yes, its EV68C.  Same as DS25 and the slow ES45.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:26:25 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results2 Message-ID: <xtudnbwQ8OSW3wiiU-KYvg@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:hrUkb.7407$c_1.4392@news.cpqcorp.net...   <usual drivel snipped>  I > > If you find such honesty tiresome, why don't you try to take steps to  fix F > > the corporate problems that bring it out?  That would seem to be a pretty1 > > optimal solution from *everyone's* viewpoint.  > >  > J > I don't find honesty tiresome at all...  but I find you beyond tiresome.  K But you never seem to tire of responding (though so seldom with anything of  substance).      A K > pretty optimal solution would be for you to spend more time on things you   > actually know something about.  G Funny how vague you are, Fred.  If you have any substantive rebuttal to K offer to the rather specific statements I've made, you're certainly keeping  it well-hidden.   K VMS doesn't usually employ incompetents.  Are you the exception, or are you J simply incompetent outside your narrow specialty (and don't have the sense to know it)?   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:22:29 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>   Subject: Re: Kerry Main's e-mail/ Message-ID: <vpajpnmdhpd580@news.supernews.com>   J I would like to offer a public apology to Kerry.  I was trying to send hisI e-mail address to a coworker and somehow managed to post it to the group.     I'm truly sorry and embarrassed,  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:vp8d9ppqsm4ibe@news.supernews.com...  > Kerry's e-mail address is: >  > Kerry  Main  hp  com >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:58:33 -0000 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  Subject: Kerry Main's e-mail/ Message-ID: <vpapdps51fqc10@news.supernews.com>    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:03:27 +0200 > From: "Winfried Bergmann" <winfried.bergmannNosPAM@empuron.de>+ Subject: memory upgrade for uVAX and Alpha? 9 Message-ID: <bn2slp$s40t6$1@ID-170759.news.uni-berlin.de>    Hello,  H does anybody know the partnumber or description of a 16MB memory module,L used in MicroVAX 3100 (no model number, possibly a 10?). I'd like to upgrade" my uVAX from 8MB to at least 16MB.  J I'd also like to upgrade the memory of my DEC 3000/400 (128 MB -> 256 MB).H Does anybody know the partnumber or description of the SIMM modules (100 pin)?    thanx, Winfried  & eMail: winfried.bergmann(AT)empuron.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:26:24 -0400 0 From: "Alan Boyles" <alan.boyles@mindspring.com>/ Subject: Re: memory upgrade for uVAX and Alpha? / Message-ID: <vpa9f9j7g70if5@corp.supernews.com>    Wilfred:  K The memory part number for a MicroVax 3100 Model 40 was MS44L-BA for the 16  meg module.   # Sorry don't have the 3000/4000 SOC.    Alan    I "Winfried Bergmann" <winfried.bergmannNosPAM@empuron.de> wrote in message 3 news:bn2slp$s40t6$1@ID-170759.news.uni-berlin.de...  > Hello, > J > does anybody know the partnumber or description of a 16MB memory module,F > used in MicroVAX 3100 (no model number, possibly a 10?). I'd like to upgrade $ > my uVAX from 8MB to at least 16MB. > L > I'd also like to upgrade the memory of my DEC 3000/400 (128 MB -> 256 MB).J > Does anybody know the partnumber or description of the SIMM modules (100 > pin)?  >  > thanx,
 > Winfried > ( > eMail: winfried.bergmann(AT)empuron.de >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 07:03:31 -0700. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)/ Subject: Re: memory upgrade for uVAX and Alpha? < Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0310210603.22f503f@posting.google.com>   "Winfried Bergmann" <winfried.bergmannNosPAM@empuron.de> wrote in message news:<bn2slp$s40t6$1@ID-170759.news.uni-berlin.de>...  > Hello, > J > does anybody know the partnumber or description of a 16MB memory module,N > used in MicroVAX 3100 (no model number, possibly a 10?). I'd like to upgrade$ > my uVAX from 8MB to at least 16MB. >   > My Jan 1995 S&O says the following for MicroVAX 3100 model 40:   16MB - 1 x MS44L-BA  24MB - 2 x MS44L-BA  32MB - 3 x MS44L-BA   L > I'd also like to upgrade the memory of my DEC 3000/400 (128 MB -> 256 MB).J > Does anybody know the partnumber or description of the SIMM modules (100 > pin)?  > . My Feb 1994 S&O has information on 3000/300LX:  4 It says that you need 4 64MB MS16-DAs to make 256MB.  I MS16-BA  -  16-Mbyte module sets (2 x 8-Mbyte, 4-Mbit, 70-ns DRAM module) J MS16-DA  -  64-Mbyte module sets (2 x 32-Mbyte, 4-Mbit, 70-ns DRAM module)    HTH,     WWWebb   > thanx,
 > Winfried > ( > eMail: winfried.bergmann(AT)empuron.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:30:47 -0600 4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-2 and Oracle RDB (last version)* Message-ID: <3F953507.200D136F@oracle.com>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > B > What is the last version of Oracle RDB supported by OVMS 7.3-2 ?  A 	you'll want to contact Oracle Rdb support directly for questions A concerning Oracle Rdb and offical statements about support.  That  said... G We've been testing Rdb on OpenVMS 7.3-2 (known by the code name "opal") H for over a year and have not found any problems with it with any versionC of Rdb that supports VMS V7.3 or later.  The current version of Rdb B is 7.1.2 and is supported on VMS V7.3-2 (when it gets released).  @ For your ES40, "best" performance would be when using V7.2.1.0.1& (compiled for EV56 and later systems).  A > Whate are the benefits of upgrading to OVMS 7.3-2 in an ES-40 ? F > I am running an ES-40 with OVMS 7.3 !  We dont have much "window" to@ > upgrade, so if we do that, we dont want compatibiliy problems. > 	 > Regards  >  > FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:31:18 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>- Subject: Re: openVMS alpha 7.3.1 on PWS600au? 2 Message-ID: <3f94d2b7$0$261$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   That's good, Graham,  G Three posts since the 4th of August in here and you win Duy's "Hero of   the Day" prize.    Neat. 	 Congrats.    D.  B (Now that I had found the pictures on "how to do-it-yourself your : PWS600au", I can leave them where they finally were... :-)   netnews.comcast.net wrote:   > Graham Burley wrote: > I >> SET OS_TYPE VMS and INIT and you will see DQ devices instead of DK for E >> the IDE devices. No idea if it will help with your problem though.  >> >>	 >> Graham  >> >  > F > This is it.  After changing OS_TYPE from OPENVMS to VMS, everything J > works.  Thanks everyone for helping, especially Graham.  You're my hero  > for today. >  > -Duy >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:41:47 +0100 $ From: issinoho <issinoho@slayme.com>- Subject: Re: openVMS alpha 7.3.1 on PWS600au? 3 Message-ID: <1066729308.31740.0@damia.uk.clara.net>    netnews.comcast.net wrote: > Graham Burley wrote: > I >> SET OS_TYPE VMS and INIT and you will see DQ devices instead of DK for E >> the IDE devices. No idea if it will help with your problem though.  >> >>	 >> Graham  >> >  > F > This is it.  After changing OS_TYPE from OPENVMS to VMS, everything J > works.  Thanks everyone for helping, especially Graham.  You're my hero  > for today. >  > -Duy > I Really! Is there a documented difference between the 2 OS_TYPE's? I must   try this on my system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:35:30 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>: Subject: Re: OpenVMS BootCamp BOF - Console Management ROI2 Message-ID: <3f94e1c3$0$250$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  G How does your product compete with HP-Belgium "new" CockpitMgr product?  (see previous post here).    D.   Bill Johnson wrote:   4 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/tditx_bof.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:24 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 2 Message-ID: <0PycnXBHndoKoAiiU-KYhA@metrocast.net>  3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 2 news:ua58pv047c6ne5sauq8vo14mqvhnbidgdj@4ax.com...J > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:41:54 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >  > - > >2+ years ago I stated that I would be here I > >for the duration (until Alpha got resurrected or those responsible for  its J > >demise, and the lies surrounding it, were purged from the corporation). > D > Well, if neither of these has happened in 2+ years, are you reallyJ > confident that your one-man crusade will have any possibility of success  > for either of those two goals?  I Well, it's always *possible* that HP's shareholders will wake up some day C and start asking why its Enterprise division can't turn a profit...    > I > Attempts to torpedo any positive development that does come about won't 7 > accomplish either of those goals, that's for certain.   J See above.  Besides, keeping potential customers aware of the character ofJ the organization they're dealing with (and the limitations of the hardware/ it's touting) is something of a public service.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:11:56 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 2 Message-ID: <ididnaDGBNE7owiiU-KYgg@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:FhUkb.7405$K72.4307@news.cpqcorp.net... > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . > news:4qednSKfDbTAJBKiU-KYuA@metrocast.net... > > H > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message0 > > news:X2Djb.7211$v55.5586@news.cpqcorp.net... > > >  > > > Give it up Bill. > > / > >  2+ years ago I stated that I would be here  > >  for the duration  > G > As if I (or 99.7% of those who read this conference) really care what  you've  > babbled over the last 2 years.  I Funny how you keep responding to it, then.  I really wouldn't miss you if 7 you didn't, you know:  don't keep doing it just for me.   I Of course, exactly how you determined that people of like mind constitute I only 0.3% of c.o.v.'s readership is somewhat questionable (sort of like a K lot of HP's PR).  Perhaps you're Spiro Agnew reincarnated, appealing to the C great, invisible 'silent majority' - since posting percentages here G certainly don't support your figures (not that I expect a great deal of I accuracy from you in any event, but you *did* provide the number to three  decimal places).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:18:05 GMT . From: Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@nospamhp.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive2 Message-ID: <N6clb.7486$dm3.3411@news.cpqcorp.net>  E I've just installed a new baselevel on the rx2600.  It allowed me to  H turn off the SYSGEN params. that slow down performance.  If you already D have a test drive account, login to 192.233.54.183 and check it out.  C Register to get your own test drive account at www.testdrive.hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:49:58 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried... 0 Message-ID: <bn36h6$g7p$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Tom Linden wrote:  > B >>A more likely scenario is that Sun would abandon Sparc and go to& >>X86 architecture, i.e. commodity HW. >  > N > Since McNealy doesn't like Intel or Microsoft, wouldn't it be more strategic- > for Sun to jump into the Power bandwagon ?   > M > In the short term, going with AMD's 64 bit 8086 will hurt HP a lot since it N > will be one more bit of pressure to push Intel to abandon IA64 and produce a > 64 bit 8086. >   8 Sun has announced that we are porting Solaris to x86-64.  P > But once this is done and intel has standardized on the 8086, then SUN will beM > stuck in the same basket as HP, Dell and Microsoft with no differetiator to  > make Sun better than HP.   >   B Depends on how damaged Intel and HP would be by the destruction ofA IA-64. I cannot see HP's Enterprise BU surviving the cancellation = of IA-64 or for that matter surviving Intel "offering" HP the 3   "opportunity" to become the sole IA-64 developer.   @ The end of HP's enterprise division would mean that Sun would beB competing against Dell/Microsoft with Dell basically doing 1-4 wayG systems this would be fine. Dell recently abandoned a joint development G with Intel for "industry standard" 8 way systems citing lack of demand.     L > Carly and Curly and before him Palmer are very generous people, willing toN > hurt themselves for the good of Microsoft and Intel. But Sun is out there toM > compete. Its decisions aren't designed to help others, they are designed to P > make Sun better than others. And I admire Sun for being one of the few ones toM > stand up and fight the wintel monopoly, while drones such as HP are burning 3 > their own houses to keep Microsoft nice and warm.  >   H The Wintel market is a very very wierd thing. There are loads of vendorsE lots of activity but only three companies consistently make money out B of Wintel. Microsoft, Intel and Dell in that order. No other major wintel suppliers make money.  E So why do they do it ? with the exception of IBM it seems mostly fear A that drives them to invest in what is by all measures a very dumb 	 business.   C Problem is that most of the Wintel crowd don't have an alternative. D It could be Linux on the desktop, but thats a dirty word that annoysF Microsoft and with the exception of IBM none of the Wintel crowd wants to annoy MS.  < Sun does have an alternative its called JDS on Linux/x86 and Solaris/SPARC.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:53:34 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried... 0 Message-ID: <bn36nv$gbl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:X > In article <3F943791.B2E78C39@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >  >>Tom Linden wrote:  >>C >>>A more likely scenario is that Sun would abandon Sparc and go to ' >>>X86 architecture, i.e. commodity HW.  >>N >>Since McNealy doesn't like Intel or Microsoft, wouldn't it be more strategic- >>for Sun to jump into the Power bandwagon ?   >> >  > < > 	You've got a point.  Sure would make those Solaris to AIX  > 	migrations go a lot smoother. >  > M >>In the short term, going with AMD's 64 bit 8086 will hurt HP a lot since it N >>will be one more bit of pressure to push Intel to abandon IA64 and produce a >>64 bit 8086. >  > < > 	Word leaks out Solaris-x86 is faster and cheaper it couldC > 	freeze certain SPARC segments, i.e. 4 processors and under.  But = > 	probably not.  Much of the erosion in low-end SPARC is due @ > 	to Dell Windows/Linux.  Faster and cheaper.  Sun's hope is to? > 	stem the bleeding by offering a faster/cheaper x86 offering.  >    So how do you define cheaper ?  2 Commercial Linux/x86 cheaper don't make me laugh !6 Windows Server/x86 cheaper again don't make me laugh !   > K >>How IBM plays its Power architecture in the next year or two will be very M >>interesting. Will IBM want to keep its Power to itself and Apple so that it M >>retains a technological edge over competitors, or will IBM want to start to P >>make Power more popular in order to gain market share which would further helpO >>Power grow and make the 8086 look like the toy controlled it started off as ?  >  > G > 	You certainly don't see anyone lined up to migrate to Power, do you? ; > 	Power systems are a high-performing high-dollar niche.    >   1 BS check out the 2-8 way IBM power boxes they may 8 be more expensive than 2-8 way SPARC but they make IA-64@ and for that matter HP-PA based systems look grossly overpriced.  4 As always your posts are not supported by the facts.   Regards  Andrew Harrison 	 > 				Rob  >    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 06:35:34 -0700- From: djesys@earthlink.net (David J Dachtera) 5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried... = Message-ID: <66a00d01.0310210535.46a0e355@posting.google.com>   d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEMDIEAA.tom@kednos.com>... > >-----Original Message----- 5 > >From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org] ) > >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 2:50 PM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 > >Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried... > >  > > 5 > >In article <3F943791.B2E78C39@istop.com>, JF Mezei & > ><jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > >> Tom Linden wrote: > >>> F > >>> A more likely scenario is that Sun would abandon Sparc and go to* > >>> X86 architecture, i.e. commodity HW. > >>B > >> Since McNealy doesn't like Intel or Microsoft, wouldn't it be >  more strategic / > >> for Sun to jump into the Power bandwagon ?  > ? > Like?  What has like got to do with?  It is a business issue,  > and Mcnealy is a businessman.   F Well, it is said that VMS and other folks are holding back for fear ofE reprisals from Micro$lop. One could say the same in that case: "Fear? D What has fear got to do with it? This is business, and (mumble) is a business person..."   ! >  I am sure Microsoft is pleased   A Pleased? What has pleased got to do with it? This is business and - (insert borg of choice) is a business person.    > to seeF > HP going down the Itanium lane (1) it was a costly adventure and (2)E > it ensures that they will never be able to compete on price.  It is F > odd that HP has never taken inventory of what their real assets are,F > namely SW. Now they will be squeezed on one side by Microsoft and on@ > the other by Dell and on a third front by IBM.  What a pickle. > [snip]   -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:43:46 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 5 Subject: RE: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried... 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEMOIEAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys@earthlink.net] ( >Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:36 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6 >Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried... >  > / >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 6 >news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEMDIEAA.tom@kednos.com>... >> >-----Original Message-----6 >> >From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]* >> >Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 2:50 PM >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 >> >Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried...  >> > >> >6 >> >In article <3F943791.B2E78C39@istop.com>, JF Mezei' >> ><jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  >> >> Tom Linden wrote:  >> >>>G >> >>> A more likely scenario is that Sun would abandon Sparc and go to + >> >>> X86 architecture, i.e. commodity HW.  >> >> C >> >> Since McNealy doesn't like Intel or Microsoft, wouldn't it be  >>  more strategic0 >> >> for Sun to jump into the Power bandwagon ? >>@ >> Like?  What has like got to do with?  It is a business issue,  >> and Mcnealy is a businessman. > G >Well, it is said that VMS and other folks are holding back for fear of F >reprisals from Micro$lop. One could say the same in that case: "Fear?E >What has fear got to do with it? This is business, and (mumble) is a  >business person..." > " >>  I am sure Microsoft is pleased > B >Pleased? What has pleased got to do with it? This is business and. >(insert borg of choice) is a business person.  G I think you missed the point, or perhaps I din't make it clear.  To not K conduct business with someone because you don't like them, is naive.  To be  pleased L that you have endplayed a competitor is another matter altogether.  In fact, maybe L it would be giving too much credit, but suppose Microsoft lured Digital into thinkingI that they were really going to support NT on Alpha for the long term, and 
 then wham.1 They got a platform to work out the 64bit issues.   K Who is to say that MS's commitment to Itanium isn't equally strong and they  are L pursuing the same strategy again.  Consider all the money going into Itanium development * while MS (and Intel) are raking it on X86.     > 	 >> to see G >> HP going down the Itanium lane (1) it was a costly adventure and (2) F >> it ensures that they will never be able to compete on price.  It isG >> odd that HP has never taken inventory of what their real assets are,TG >> namely SW. Now they will be squeezed on one side by Microsoft and on1A >> the other by Dell and on a third front by IBM.  What a pickle.e	 >> [snip]t >U >--c >David J Dachtera? >dba DJE Systems >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).hA >Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date: 10/6/2003D >, --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 - Release Date: 10/6/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:50:40 -0700e/ From: Greg Cagle <news@removethisgregcagle.com>u5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried... / Message-ID: <vpalercg8ih939@corp.supernews.com>?  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > B > The end of HP's enterprise division would mean that Sun would beD > competing against Dell/Microsoft with Dell basically doing 1-4 wayI > systems this would be fine. Dell recently abandoned a joint developmentoI > with Intel for "industry standard" 8 way systems citing lack of demand.c  = You seem to have forgotten about a little company called IBM.e   -- e
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 10:57:06 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)c5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried... 3 Message-ID: <dC$EWa68vOTE@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  V In article <3F944FEB.D6846509@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:O >>         You certainly don't see anyone lined up to migrate to Power, do you? A >>         Power systems are a high-performing high-dollar niche.o > N > Since apple is using IBM Power chips now (instead of Motorola PowerPC as wasT > the case before), I don't think that they could be considered "high-dollar niche". > P > And apple is going for the desktop. IA64 doesn't even dare touch the desktop. ? > So if Sun had to choose between those two, it would be Power.i >   > 	But Sun isn't going for the desktop.  The PowerPC is woefullyC 	underpowered compared to latest P4s.  Sun has lost the workstation 9 	market.  So you are looking at 2-4 processor servers and > 	up for Sun as a marketplace.  That would be a Power chip, not	 	PowerPC.   M > At this point in time, Power probably has a big edge over the 8086 since it-9 > allows more complex systems to be built for enterprise.-  G 	But Itanium currently leads in most performance categories (TPC, SAP, nG 	SPECfp).   How would you define "more complex systems to be built for w
 	enterprise?"s   > L > Or Intel could bite the bullet and produce a killer 64 bit 8086 that couldP > really go from desktop to datacentre with both desktop and enterprise featuresA > (perhaps in different versions of the chip but with same core).d > N > If Intel chooses to preserve the expensive IA64, then AMD only needs to jumpP > into the fray and produce a 64 bit enterprise ready 8086 with all the features > needed for large systems.    	Here is a crackup.-  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12236-  O "Whatever Intel offered Dell to persuade it from supporting the AMD64 platform,yL it must have been irresistible. The sad fact for Dell's customers though wasN that it yielded to the Intel dollar. Dell's choice to stick with Intel was not a customer-centric decision."m    A 	Like I mentioned before.  This Xeon list prices certainly aren'ts? 	what Dell pays.  Dell and others would lose money cutting overtB 	to Opteron as the margins wouldn't be as great.  Sad that Dell's > 	customer's will suffer?  I don't think so.  Opteron is great C 	competition.  It will ensure HP and Dell keep their server prices  A 	down.  Dell's prices match up to IBM's Opteron's prices and thatnA 	probably isn't a coincidence.  Besides, Dell is in business and -: 	Opteron isn't a good business decision.  The author above 	states:  F 	"The sad fact for Dell's customers though was that it yielded to the  	Intel dollar."D  < 	Ha-ha.  Dell has been Intel only for quite sometime and theC 	"sad fact" is Dell is kicking everyone's backside.  It's business.1? 	Maybe Sun has some glorious vision but their busness is headedo 	down the tubes.  C 	Is it an accident that IBM offers a 2-way Opteron ONLY?  Wouldn't mE 	be much of a stretch to assume IBM would lose a steep Xeon discount  D 	if they shipped a 4-way Opteron, would it?  Why no 4-way Opteron's  	from IBM? c   				Robt   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 11:11:42 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried...r3 Message-ID: <PfiDlLqtA1Sh@eisner.encompasserve.org>c   In article <bn36nv$gbl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:   >> u >> AH >> 	You certainly don't see anyone lined up to migrate to Power, do you?< >> 	Power systems are a high-performing high-dollar niche.   >> d > 3 > BS check out the 2-8 way IBM power boxes they mayv: > be more expensive than 2-8 way SPARC but they make IA-64B > and for that matter HP-PA based systems look grossly overpriced. > 6 > As always your posts are not supported by the facts. >   9 	No.  In your valiant efforts to gain one upmanship, you s> 	always pick and choose your criteria.  Redefining on the fly.  7 	POWER SYSTEMS ARE A HIGH-PERFORMING HIGH-DOLLAR NICHE.v  E 	Now the question you might care to ask yourself, what am I comparing A 	them to, what is the niche?  If you would like to continue this N 	debate , feel free.  6 > As always your posts are not supported by the facts.  > 	As always, your posts gently twist and turn most anything andE 	at the end of the day, your posts smack of desperation.  Kinda/sortaa 	like your employer.   				Robb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:48:20 +0100tO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>c5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried...n0 Message-ID: <bn3o0k$op2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:X > In article <3F944FEB.D6846509@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>O >>>        You certainly don't see anyone lined up to migrate to Power, do you? A >>>        Power systems are a high-performing high-dollar niche.t >>N >>Since apple is using IBM Power chips now (instead of Motorola PowerPC as wasT >>the case before), I don't think that they could be considered "high-dollar niche". >>P >>And apple is going for the desktop. IA64 doesn't even dare touch the desktop. ? >>So if Sun had to choose between those two, it would be Power.  >> >  > @ > 	But Sun isn't going for the desktop.  The PowerPC is woefullyE > 	underpowered compared to latest P4s.  Sun has lost the workstation ; > 	market.  So you are looking at 2-4 processor servers and @ > 	up for Sun as a marketplace.  That would be a Power chip, not > 	PowerPC.-  8 Sorry Rob but yet again you are completely missinformed.  ; Sun has announced JDS its a direct desktop play against MS.p  @ http://wwws.sun.com/software/learnabout/desktopsystem/index.html  A Initially its available for x86 boxes, but its also scheduled forrE Solaris desktops as well. JDS is pretty much what Sun runs internallysC on all our Solaris desktops. Evolution, Mozilla, StarOffice, Gnome.   E So then you will have a choice of desktops from Sun, x86, traditionalp+ SPARC, and ultrathin SunRay/WanRay clients.a  E http://www.linuxbusinessweek.com/story/32659.htm has a pretty typicali setup.  E One reason for MS's desktop domination is their clever use of desktopm0 apps leveraging server side apps and vice versa.  C Sun aims to do the same thing with JDS-JES. JES has the messaging, tD calendaring, web services etc with hooks into the client so that theC client can make use of group calendars etc. Most of the reasons whyw people use Outlook for example.:  G Its also exceptionally cheap, JES and JDS is $150 per user much cheaper23 than say Office/XP Pro plus say WebSphere/WebLogic.   C It also gets you out of the desktop platform churn that is the realg* life experience of most Windows customers.   regardse Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 12:22:42 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried...e3 Message-ID: <FagdKuRGpWdv@eisner.encompasserve.org>M   In article <bn3oma$ouu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >> In article <bn36nv$gbl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  >>   >>   >>>>I >>>>	You certainly don't see anyone lined up to migrate to Power, do you?0= >>>>	Power systems are a high-performing high-dollar niche.    >>>> >>>r4 >>>BS check out the 2-8 way IBM power boxes they may; >>>be more expensive than 2-8 way SPARC but they make IA-64cC >>>and for that matter HP-PA based systems look grossly overpriced.c >>>a7 >>>As always your posts are not supported by the facts.f >>>g >> a >> L< >> 	No.  In your valiant efforts to gain one upmanship, you A >> 	always pick and choose your criteria.  Redefining on the fly.w >> a: >> 	POWER SYSTEMS ARE A HIGH-PERFORMING HIGH-DOLLAR NICHE. >> k > E > Do you have any idea what a Power based 2 CPU server costs. Clearlye( > not. How about 11K for a 2 CPU system. >   B 	Clearly higher (much in some cases) than competing 2 CPU systems.  < > Care to revise your BS and remove the HIGH DOLLAR rubbish.  < 	No.  11K is a starting place.  Things scream up from there. 	Power is a high-priced niche.   				Robe   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:59:54 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>h5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried...k0 Message-ID: <bn3oma$ouu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <bn36nv$gbl$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >  >>>iH >>>	You certainly don't see anyone lined up to migrate to Power, do you?< >>>	Power systems are a high-performing high-dollar niche.   >>>X >>3 >>BS check out the 2-8 way IBM power boxes they may0: >>be more expensive than 2-8 way SPARC but they make IA-64B >>and for that matter HP-PA based systems look grossly overpriced. >>6 >>As always your posts are not supported by the facts. >> >  > ; > 	No.  In your valiant efforts to gain one upmanship, you  @ > 	always pick and choose your criteria.  Redefining on the fly. > 9 > 	POWER SYSTEMS ARE A HIGH-PERFORMING HIGH-DOLLAR NICHE.  >   C Do you have any idea what a Power based 2 CPU server costs. Clearlyt& not. How about 11K for a 2 CPU system.  : Care to revise your BS and remove the HIGH DOLLAR rubbish.  G > 	Now the question you might care to ask yourself, what am I comparingtC > 	them to, what is the niche?  If you would like to continue this e > 	debate , feel free.  ; I do and as you know only too well from previous experiencer= this isn't at all good news for you unless you buck an almost  unbroken trend of failure.   regards  Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:02:43 +0100rO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>05 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried...a0 Message-ID: <bn3orj$ouu$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Greg Cagle wrote:m >  > * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>C >> The end of HP's enterprise division would mean that Sun would be E >> competing against Dell/Microsoft with Dell basically doing 1-4 way J >> systems this would be fine. Dell recently abandoned a joint developmentJ >> with Intel for "industry standard" 8 way systems citing lack of demand. >  > ? > You seem to have forgotten about a little company called IBM.. >   A No if you read my posting I included a little company called IBM.s  D When HP's enterprise business implodes after Intel cancel IA-64 then= there will be more business arround than Sun or IBM will knowh what to do with.   regardsr Andrew Harrisonl   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 12:15:34 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)r5 Subject: Re: OT: Why Scott McNeally is not worried...a3 Message-ID: <0mKcU6eZm6D6@eisner.encompasserve.org>p   In article <bn3o0k$op2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:Y >> In article <3F944FEB.D6846509@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:n >> e >>>Rob Young wrote:  >>>uP >>>>        You certainly don't see anyone lined up to migrate to Power, do you?B >>>>        Power systems are a high-performing high-dollar niche. >>>yO >>>Since apple is using IBM Power chips now (instead of Motorola PowerPC as waseU >>>the case before), I don't think that they could be considered "high-dollar niche".l >>>nQ >>>And apple is going for the desktop. IA64 doesn't even dare touch the desktop.  @ >>>So if Sun had to choose between those two, it would be Power. >>>i >>   >> jA >> 	But Sun isn't going for the desktop.  The PowerPC is woefullyrF >> 	underpowered compared to latest P4s.  Sun has lost the workstation< >> 	market.  So you are looking at 2-4 processor servers andA >> 	up for Sun as a marketplace.  That would be a Power chip, not  >> 	PowerPC. > : > Sorry Rob but yet again you are completely missinformed. > = > Sun has announced JDS its a direct desktop play against MS.h > B > http://wwws.sun.com/software/learnabout/desktopsystem/index.html > C > Initially its available for x86 boxes, but its also scheduled foryG > Solaris desktops as well. JDS is pretty much what Sun runs internally-E > on all our Solaris desktops. Evolution, Mozilla, StarOffice, Gnome.m > G > So then you will have a choice of desktops from Sun, x86, traditionalp- > SPARC, and ultrathin SunRay/WanRay clients.$ >tG > One reason for MS's desktop domination is their clever use of desktopt2 > apps leveraging server side apps and vice versa.    = 	That and the fact that almost all desktops are Windows basedgA 	would probably have a bit to do with it.  But that is a circulare= 	argument.  Maybe because their products fill a need and mosty9 	of us go for it and we can use the same thing at home as0 	we do at work, etc.?f   > E > Sun aims to do the same thing with JDS-JES. JES has the messaging, -F > calendaring, web services etc with hooks into the client so that theE > client can make use of group calendars etc. Most of the reasons why ! > people use Outlook for example.s > I > Its also exceptionally cheap, JES and JDS is $150 per user much cheaper45 > than say Office/XP Pro plus say WebSphere/WebLogic.  > E > It also gets you out of the desktop platform churn that is the realn, > life experience of most Windows customers. >   B 	Sounds like a plan.  Maybe it helps keep down or lower Microsoft  	prices.   				Robo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:57:31 -0500u( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)< Subject: PIPE  error "X Toolkit Warning: cannot open display1 Message-ID: <03102111573158@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   C I ran into an error using PIPE and RSH that I am a bit confused on:    This fails:   3 $ pipe rsh rmnode "directory dls$dir:dls2.com;" | -.B                   ( read sys$pipe x ; define /JOB /NOLOG xyz & x )& X Toolkit Warning: cannot open display       Whereas this does not:  3 $ pipe rsh rmnode "directory dls$dir:dls2.com;" | -d6                   search sys$pipe "%DIRECT-W-NOFILES,"! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files foundn    F I find this odd since the search works and the read fails.  Any ideas?         J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n. VMS Systems Administratory* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:18:19 -04001< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>@ Subject: Re: PIPE  error "X Toolkit Warning: cannot open display9 Message-ID: <bn3pov$t48qn$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>3   John Brandon wrote:l >...5 > $ pipe rsh rmnode "directory dls$dir:dls2.com;" | -5> >                   ( read sys$pipe x ; define /JOB /NOLOG xyz & x )o( > X Toolkit Warning: cannot open display >...  = Is that really a space between the & and the x? If it is then ; x is probably a symbol that is trying to run a program thatt wants to write to a X display.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:33:59 -0500-( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)@ Subject: Re: PIPE  error "X Toolkit Warning: cannot open display1 Message-ID: <03102112335904@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>e   Peter Weaver wrote:9? > Is that really a space between the & and the x? If it is then = > x is probably a symbol that is trying to run a program thatu  > wants to write to a X display.  * I do not think that that is the problem -   < In a different test not using RSH I have some oddities also:  J Here I perform the same exact command on a non-existent file and it works: $ pipe directory file.txt; | -J ( read sys$pipe x ; define /JOB /NOLOG xyz &x ) ; eqvnam = f$trnlnm("xyz")   $ show symbol eqvnam,   EQVNAM = "%DIRECT-NOFILES, no files found"    G Here I perform the same exact command on an existent file and it fails:s $ pipe directory file.wrk; | -J ( read sys$pipe x ; define /JOB /NOLOG xyz &x ) ; eqvnam = f$trnlnm("xyz")> %DCL-NULFIL, missing or invalid file specification - respecify       $ dirs file.*;   Directory mydevice:[mydir]  P FILE.WRK;1                                     1/18      21-OCT-2003 12:28:46.59   Total of 1 file, 1/18 blocks.c $0       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*ni VMS Systems Administratoru* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 01:31:47 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) Subject: Portents of iVMS birth = Message-ID: <7500353b.0310210031.3baea7f9@posting.google.com>a  ? Last Alphas have been released, EV79 is rumoured to been cut inc? features and vendors are shutting down the investments on Alphae> because growth path is gone and without it, very little can beC expected from the sales. Of course if you start with small box, yousC can scale up to 64 CPU's, but if iVMS is not able to perform beyondaD that, difficult times may be ahead. Of course the days we see 64 CPUA itaniums running VMS, are far off and that is to be seen and very 1 small amount of companies actually need 64 CPU's.   C The practical impacts are more important of course. Now we will see D whether the major plan will be a success or flop. Is Alpha > itaniumE migration such a good idea after all, will the market buy the move tonF itanium or run off to other platforms ? Will OpenVms be the driver forE itanium that allows it to make it or break it where other os's failedtB ? Needless to say, itanium is now on cutting edge to vms users and5 many go's no-go's are decided in the following weeks.a  E Imho the most difficult for HP is now to really retain trust when PHB = comes to ask where shall the company move from Alpha and good C reasoning has to be available, which basically goes on the lines of2F 'just wait, I can get you an answer in next summer, lets just stick to@ this what we have until we get the new systems to our hands', so. obviously honesty does not cut the cake now :)  B 500 ISV's have signed up which is sounds good at first, but not asE good when you think of it - if one platform is killed and other born,kB then do you really have other pratical choices if you want to keepF yourself on the market. Of course one may ask of how many are there onB Alpha/VAX and what the ISV support actually means ? Surely not allE applications and all versions they have, but lets not worry of this -V? if itanium is a huge success, surely more will be ported to it.K   We live in interesting times.f   Mx   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:00:40 +0200@, From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>. Subject: Re: Problem with UCX QIOW IO$_SETMODE8 Message-ID: <1066741241.411130@mozart.adv.magwien.gv.at>   Valentin Likoum wrote:; > Hmm.. I have been using this option since UCX 4.2 and nowd= > on TCPIP 5.1, but it seems never happens to work. Option isa> > definitly set accordinly to UCX SHOW DEVICE/FULL output. But: > I always get SS$_DUPLNAM after server restart if I don't4 > disconnect all the clients before server shutdown.  C The trick is that, with the QIO interface, you must not specify alllE parameters in one call because it seems that they are processed in antI unsuitable sequence. The BG: driver processes them starting with p1, next L p2, p3 and so on, whatever was not passed as zero. This means that parameterL p3 which is used to bind the socket to a specific port is processed _before_H parameter p5 which is used to set socket options. Therefore, because theJ UCX$_REUSEADDR option isn't yet set at the time parameter p3 is processed,# the binding fails with SS$_DUPLNAM.2I Like shown in the examples in SYS$EXAMPLES:[.UCX] (Thanks to Carl PerkinsjK for his suggestion), I have splitted now the QIO call into three calls: theDI first only uses P1 to set the socket creation parameters, the second useso  only P5 to set the socket optionH UCX$_REUSEADDR, and the third specifies P3 to bind the socket to a localJ address and P4 to specify a queue length for incomming connection requestsL Although the manual says that you can specify all parameters in a single qioA call, this isn't the case here. Anyway, now it works as epxected.i  J May be that you can specify p1 and p5 together in a single QIO call and p3 and p4 in a second.    Greetings, Ferry ---o Ing. Ferry Bolhar-Nordenkampfa% Municipality of Vienna, Department 14t A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIA  E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.att: "Wenn hier einer schuld ist, dann immer nur der Computer."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:43:35 +0100 3 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie>o) Subject: Re: Product (PCSI) Info Questions* Message-ID: <bn355h$5ef$1@kermit.esat.net>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:0wl2rTwT4kqn@eisner.encompasserve.org...g6 > In article <3F945A0B.780BD8E1@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:  E > As for IVP, PCSI has properly recognized that IVPs must be separateeD > from installation since there is no guarantee at installation time' > that the product has been configured.S  L But an *Installation* Verification Procedure should be able to verify that aC product has been installed correctly, irrespective of whether it iseC configured.  Granted, for products that require a great tweaking ofSL configurations, the IVP may do little more than check that all the files are@ in the right place, but for simpler things like a compiler, IVPsI traditionally compiled a small test program, and checked its output.  Can- PCSI do that ?  F Isn't it strange that every time someone says "how can PCSI do <insertF VMSINSTAL feature>" the answer invariably is "PCSI doesn't believe you should be doing that" ?d  ? ---------------------------------------------------------------w< Tom Wade             | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie? EuroKom              | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;c/ Unit A2              |        a=eirmail400;c=iee/ Nutgrove Office Park | Tel:   +353 (1) 296-9696c/ Rathfarnham          | Fax:   +353 (1) 296-9697 < Dublin 14            | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimerC Ireland              | Tip:   "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"l   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 07:51:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)u) Subject: Re: Product (PCSI) Info Questionz3 Message-ID: <shlGAfeBKcN1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <bn355h$5ef$1@kermit.esat.net>, "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie> writes: > < > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:0wl2rTwT4kqn@eisner.encompasserve.org...e7 >> In article <3F945A0B.780BD8E1@uiowa.edu>, Rick Dysone  > <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes: > F >> As for IVP, PCSI has properly recognized that IVPs must be separateE >> from installation since there is no guarantee at installation time ( >> that the product has been configured. > N > But an *Installation* Verification Procedure should be able to verify that aE > product has been installed correctly, irrespective of whether it islE > configured.  Granted, for products that require a great tweaking ofeN > configurations, the IVP may do little more than check that all the files are > in the right place,e  I Has anyone ever seen a case where PCSI put the files in the wrong place ?A  . > but for simpler things like a compiler, IVPsK > traditionally compiled a small test program, and checked its output.  Can  > PCSI do that ?  A Of course not, because VMSINSTAL could not either (even though itrB pretended it could).  There is no guarantee that the customer even@ has a license for the size machine being used to do the Install,@ particularly in the case of installations done onto system disks for shipment elsewhere.y  E DEC listened to those of us who complained for years about "bad kits"iE whose authors did not have a clue that kits can be installed on other  than the running system disk.i  H > Isn't it strange that every time someone says "how can PCSI do <insertH > VMSINSTAL feature>" the answer invariably is "PCSI doesn't believe you > should be doing that" ?n  B Not strange at all.  VMSINSTAL is a DCL hack that grew like Topsy,B but PCSI was actually designed.  When there is a problem with PCSI? it is possible for the VMS Developers to respond with something @ better than "don't let your customers use feature X if you build kits using feature Y".   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:55:10 +0100e* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>) Subject: Re: Product (PCSI) Info QuestionF' Message-ID: <bn3dpq$lj1$1@lore.csc.com>:   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > b > In article <bn355h$5ef$1@kermit.esat.net>, "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie> writes: > >t  P > > But an *Installation* Verification Procedure should be able to verify that aG > > product has been installed correctly, irrespective of whether it isuG > > configured.  Granted, for products that require a great tweaking ofaP > > configurations, the IVP may do little more than check that all the files are > > in the right place,i > K > Has anyone ever seen a case where PCSI put the files in the wrong place ?b  
 You asked.  : The link is longer than three double decker busses, so useB groups.google.com and on May 2nd 2003, look for "PRODUCT behaviour' warning" thread, posted by yours truly.o   -- w? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences. nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 09:48:12 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)x) Subject: Re: Product (PCSI) Info Question 3 Message-ID: <5NYKIbZlzKd7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <bn3dpq$lj1$1@lore.csc.com>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> Pc >> In article <bn355h$5ef$1@kermit.esat.net>, "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie> writes:n >> > > Q >> > But an *Installation* Verification Procedure should be able to verify that aeH >> > product has been installed correctly, irrespective of whether it isH >> > configured.  Granted, for products that require a great tweaking ofQ >> > configurations, the IVP may do little more than check that all the files are  >> > in the right place, >> ML >> Has anyone ever seen a case where PCSI put the files in the wrong place ? >  > You asked. > < > The link is longer than three double decker busses, so useD > groups.google.com and on May 2nd 2003, look for "PRODUCT behaviour) > warning" thread, posted by yours truly.-   Thanks.a  B Did you file a formal report ?   I see several bugs in that event.  F But back to the original topic, I do not see that any product-specificE IVP could find that problem, since the product appears to be properly<D installed on a valid system disk, just not the one Nic wanted.  (TheD business about the wrong PCSI database being used is well beyond the0 ability of a product-specific IVP to determine.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:32:15 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>/ Subject: Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?92 Message-ID: <3f94e101$0$250$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Many thanks to all.n  G Now I reformulate my question(s) because I have no knowledge at all on S that stuff.o   What is DMZ? MX?u How do you "add an MX record"? Where? What is "No-ip"?.k Who is my best RTFM friend :-)  $ In five words: Where is my HOW To???  
 Thanks a lot.o   D.   Martin P.J. Zinser wrote:     J > This being VMS I declared my VMS system to be the DMZ host in my router,D > i.e. all ports are forwarded to my system. Adding an MX record is J > required as others have mentioned already. I use No-ip for both DNS and J > MX and that works fine for me. Other dynamic DNS providers might support > MX records too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 01:17:09 -0700d6 From: "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>/ Subject: Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?d6 Message-ID: <200310210817.h9L8H9dj028922@www.aarg.net>  8 On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote: >Many thanks to all. >tH >Now I reformulate my question(s) because I have no knowledge at all on  >that stuff. > 
 >What is DMZ?    De-Militarized Zone.  : It basically means putting a machine outside the firewall.   >MX?   Mail eXchange (?)    >How do you "add an MX record"?-  C An MX record is an entry in DNS that states a machine handles mail.m   >Where?e  H Wherever your DNS records are held.  Possibly on your provider's server.   >What is "No-ip"?.  1 No-ip is one of the dynamic redirection services.n   >Who is my best RTFM friend :-)c >r% >In five words: Where is my HOW To???:  B Ask whoever manages your DNS records to set up MX records for you.     Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.eK [PGP Key via finger]     http://openvms-rocks.com     http://vmsbox.cjb.net-   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:19:54 +0000 (UTC)> From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk/ Subject: Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?j) Message-ID: <bn34oq$1gi$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>i  o In article <200310210817.h9L8H9dj028922@www.aarg.net>, "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:  >>9 >On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote:i >>Many thanks to all.n >>I >>Now I reformulate my question(s) because I have no knowledge at all on >
 >>that stuff.  >> >>What is DMZ? >i >De-Militarized Zone.  >>; >It basically means putting a machine outside the firewall.g >?M Slight correction. The DMZ is an area between two firewalls or on many modernM8 firewalls hanging off a third interface on the firewall.   So you havea   1)                outside world                    |                firewall 1a                    |                   DMZ                     |                firewall 2s                    |               protected network    or   2)                outside world                    |"                firewall ----  DMZ                     |               protected networkr    H 2) is almost equivalent to 1)  since the firewall has separate rules for) traffic between the different interfaces.e  I 1) gives you slightly greater protection since firewall 2 is not directlyc" attackable from the outside world.    J The rules between the DMZ and the outside world are less severe than those! protecting the protected network.fL Typically web servers and other public systems are placed in the DMZ whereasM your crown jewels - database servers etc are placed in the protected network.a    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >>MX?n >I >Mail eXchange (?) >h  >>How do you "add an MX record"? >8D >An MX record is an entry in DNS that states a machine handles mail. >s >>Where? > I >Wherever your DNS records are held.  Possibly on your provider's server.I >s >>What is "No-ip"?.n >r2 >No-ip is one of the dynamic redirection services. >m  >>Who is my best RTFM friend :-) >>& >>In five words: Where is my HOW To??? >bC >Ask whoever manages your DNS records to set up MX records for you.  >c >D >Doc.D >-- L >OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.L >[PGP Key via finger]     http://openvms-rocks.com     http://vmsbox.cjb.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:21:47 -0400c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?0) Message-ID: <3F956B29.84D24775@istop.com>1   Didier Morandi wrote:- > What is DMZ?  L In a NAT router, you specify to which host in your intranet a call to port XK gets directed. The "DMZ" (is that just a consumer buzzword, or is that used-L for serious routers as well ?) is essentially the specification of a default+ host to which all other calls get directed.s  J If you don't have a default host, then calls coming in to a port which youL haven't specified in your router are stopped at the router (since the routerH doesn't know to which host in your intranet to send the connect request)  K If you specify a default host, then that host can receive calls to any portaE (except those specifically directed to other hosts in your intranet).-  G Consider FTP where the remote server initiates a call to your host on aoL "Random" port for the data transfer. The "DMZ" will allow this to happen (asL long as your are doing the FTP from the host in the DMZ). Otherwise you needN to do your FTPs in passive mode since there si no way for the remote server to& connect to your host on a random port.   > MX?y  M There are a few types of DNS definitions. the "A" record provides equivalencee< between a host name ( www.chocolate.com ) and an IP address.  T The MX record provides an equivalence between an email domain name and an host name.  N For instance, if you run your smtp server on www.chocolate.com, you would have an MX record> that points emails for "chocolate.com" to "www.chocolate.com".  M so, if you send an email to chef@chocolate.com , the sending SMTP server willtJ do an MX lookup for chocolate.com , find out that the smtp server for thisI domain is "www.chocolate.com". It will then do an A record translation ofrM www.chocolate.com to find its IP address and then connect to that IP address'C port 25 to send the message.  N MX records can be a bit more complex with a list of possible SMTP servers, but$ in your case, it doesn't need to be.    > How do you "add an MX record"? > Where?  L In most consumer DNS schemes, you don't add it, they add it for you when you register your domain.t    > Who is my best RTFM friend :-)   For DNS issues:p< http://www.goldencode.com/atlos2/notes/dns/dns.html#resource  K For SMTP, you can take a good look at the TCPIP Services Management manual.rF Note that to setup yur DNS zone files (if you are running your own DNSJ servers), the above resources are needed since the VMS documentation lacks: proper documentation on the format/contents of zone files.2 (those are the .DB files in TCPIP$BIND directory.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:36:27 +0200e" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>4 Subject: SWEP XD Ada planned to be ported to Itanium4 Message-ID: <3f951a3c$0$27022$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  ; Pls find below a mail I got today from SWEP, XD Ada editor:t   Good morning  7 I am writing in response to your Migration news letter.T  G I thought it might be of interest to let you know that XD Ada is still oG very much alive and widely used and that we are planning to migrate to r the OpenVMS Itanium platform.e  E Time scales on this have not been finalised as the dependency is the   Itanium port to OpenVMS.  F As a group we are the remanent of SD and have a number of products on B VAX, Alpha (AXP) and the CHARON-VAX emulator with whom we have an D agreement with. We are also involved with HP and are still actively C working on some of the aspects on the OpenVMS Migration to Itanium.t (...)y  H I will not go into to much detail here but our Website www.swep-eds.com    will give you more info.  F I hope this will help and I would ask if possible that you let people A know of us as we are firm supporters of our products and OpenVMS.u   Best Regards   Gary  
 Gary J Knights	 E SWEP-UKt% Delivery Lead Manager/Account Managert( Software Engineering and Products (SWEP)! EDS UK South East Solution Centrew   EDS-SWEP
 Hartley Housen 15 Bartley Wood Business Parkc Bartley Way  Hook, Hampshire, RG27 9XA, UK- Phone: +44 (0)1256 741121: Fax: +44 (0)1256 741132n E-Mail: gknight@eds.comg# www.swep-eds.com <www.swep-eds.com>l   FYI. D. -- .;           Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration NewsnH         English: http://www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdf   H         French: http://www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310fr.pdf  F Didier Morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPC      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationSD    5 avenue Albert Durand 31700 Blagnac France Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287D    SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 11:10:21 -04007 From: "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu>f> Subject: Temporary VMS Consultant position in Boston, MA, area. Message-ID: <3f954c5d@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>  E The Minor Planet Center is looking for a VMS consultant to undertake,i@ on a temporary basis, some VMS and cluster-related tasks we need doing.   Details are at:k  1 http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/VMSConsultant.htmlw     -- pH ------------------------------------------------------------------------H Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.+ Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet CentereH gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html7 OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systems C ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ----------------------M: For a quality mail server, try SurgeMail, easy to install,@ fast, efficient and reliable.  Run a million users on a standardA PC running NT or Unix without running out of power, use the best!>C ----  See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_surgemail.htm  ----    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:10:21 -0400r& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>) Subject: We still need Alpha DS10 systemsf/ Message-ID: <vpa8m0gtdfma64@news.supernews.com>o  
 Any conditione      9 Swapping 1 x DS10 466 or 617 for 2 x DS10L 617Mhz systemsi+ No CDROM or floppy is included in the DS10Lu These are available for $189  + We will also do a swap for Alphaserver ES40w  " You  provide  3 x DS10 (any speed) You gete   1 x Alphaserver ES40 Model 1 500Mhz CPU with 4MB Cached CDROM Floppy
 No license Pedestal Kit or Rackmount Kit.  + No memory or disk is included in this offern9 2 x DS10 memory kits can be used as 1 memory kit for ES40c& Maximum memory in ES40 Model 1 is 16GB  * Call email or fax us if ready to move !!!!     -- n David B Turner Island Computers US Corporationp 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180a Savannah GA 31404o Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402i Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.netr   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 08:14:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c! Subject: Re: What is ACME_SERVER? 3 Message-ID: <kXt6XUfB0Xeg@eisner.encompasserve.org>R  V In article <3F943CCF.8911B5B7@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > K > Since ACM is not supported on VAX, as long as VMS continues to be able toiL > cluster with Alphas, wouldn't it be logical to state that non-ACM LOGINOUTD > will be supported at least until HP stops development on VAX VMS ?7           ^^^^^^^                           ^^^^^^^^^^^s  I    More like non-ACM LOGINOUT will be _supported_ at least until HP stopshJ    _support_ on VAX VMS.  Which is likely to be quite some time after theyF    stop development on VAX VMS.  Which is not even on the horizon yet.  F    But it's quite likely that little in the ACM realies on 64 bits, soH    it might end up cheaper for HP to support one code base for that part
    of VMS.  H    IMHO HP should spend some money on merging some parts of the VAX code@    base with the Alpha/IA64 code base as that is likely to bringA    support costs down.  Let the engineers figure out which parts.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:09:09 -0400d From: norm.raphael@metso.com! Subject: Re: What is ACME_SERVER?.Q Message-ID: <OF5A88B612.8BE3E7BE-ON85256DC6.004DAB2B-85256DC6.004D63D4@metso.com>>  K Ah, the voice of the customer.  May I lend you a megaphone, a bullhorn,  ant amplifier, oh, never mind.  J From:  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) on 10/21/2003        10:14 AMa  G Please respond to koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)    To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:o  $ Subject:    Re: What is ACME_SERVER?    2 In article <3F943CCF.8911B5B7@istop.com>, JF Mezei# <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:A >lK > Since ACM is not supported on VAX, as long as VMS continues to be able toIC > cluster with Alphas, wouldn't it be logical to state that non-ACMn LOGINOUTD > will be supported at least until HP stops development on VAX VMS ?7           ^^^^^^^                           ^^^^^^^^^^^v  I    More like non-ACM LOGINOUT will be _supported_ at least until HP stops1J    _support_ on VAX VMS.  Which is likely to be quite some time after theyF    stop development on VAX VMS.  Which is not even on the horizon yet.  F    But it's quite likely that little in the ACM realies on 64 bits, soH    it might end up cheaper for HP to support one code base for that part
    of VMS.  H    IMHO HP should spend some money on merging some parts of the VAX code@    base with the Alpha/IA64 code base as that is likely to bringA    support costs down.  Let the engineers figure out which parts.n   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Oct 2003 08:59:01 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n! Subject: Re: What is ACME_SERVER?u3 Message-ID: <608ACFAjGS+x@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <kXt6XUfB0Xeg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: X > In article <3F943CCF.8911B5B7@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >> CL >> Since ACM is not supported on VAX, as long as VMS continues to be able toM >> cluster with Alphas, wouldn't it be logical to state that non-ACM LOGINOUT E >> will be supported at least until HP stops development on VAX VMS ?w9 >           ^^^^^^^                           ^^^^^^^^^^^  > K >    More like non-ACM LOGINOUT will be _supported_ at least until HP stops L >    _support_ on VAX VMS.  Which is likely to be quite some time after theyH >    stop development on VAX VMS.  Which is not even on the horizon yet.  H But if non-ACM LOGINOUT is supported on VAX, that does not mean it would" be supported on Alpha and Itanium.  J >    IMHO HP should spend some money on merging some parts of the VAX codeB >    base with the Alpha/IA64 code base as that is likely to bringC >    support costs down.  Let the engineers figure out which parts.l  B SYS$ACM is certainly a feature that could readily be ported to VAXC (no hardware dependency, etc.) but in the past the feeling was that A since the original design was to support the Alpha-only MicrosoftOD compatibility code (SSPI, Advanced Server, Registry, etc.) there was& no customer demand for SYS$ACM on VAX.  E If support for Radius, S/Key and other features really needed SYS$ACMd4 on VAX, that should be expressed to VMS Development.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.584 ************************