1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 23 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 587       Contents: 200/mc maintenance manual  Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400  Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400  Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400  Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400  Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400  Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400 @ Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities?@ Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities?@ Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities?@ Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities?@ Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities?E Re: DNPG products also through a partner (was: DNPG - No DEC anymore) P Re: HP announces new AlphaServer systems and enhancements to Tru64 UNIX and OpenP Re: HP announces new AlphaServer systems and enhancements to Tru64 UNIX and Open2 Re: HP offers WebLogic on OpenVMS, NonStop servers2 Re: HP offers WebLogic on OpenVMS, NonStop servers? Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results ? Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results ? Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results & Re: memory upgrade for uVAX and Alpha?2 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500! Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertisment  OpenVMS Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS Roadmap  Re: OpenVMS Roadmap  Re: Product problem  Re: Product problem  RE: Product problem  Re: Product problem  SMTP Performance Problem Re: SMTP Performance Problem& Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch? Spam from Hewlett-Packard  Re: Spam from Hewlett-Packard  Re: Spam from Hewlett-Packard  Re: statistics on DEC and CPQ  Re: statistics on DEC and CPQ " TFT5600 Console with OpenVMS Alpha& Re: TFT5600 Console with OpenVMS Alpha& Re: TFT5600 Console with OpenVMS Alpha8 Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloria< Re: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloria< Re: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloria< Re: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloria) Re: We buy Alpha  - URGENT - DS10 systems ) Re: We buy Alpha  - URGENT - DS10 systems ) Re: We buy Alpha  - URGENT - DS10 systems  Re: What is ACME_SERVER?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 02:19:22 GMT 7 From: Steve <shines@**nospamplease**mail.beethoven.com> " Subject: 200/mc maintenance manual8 Message-ID: <cieepv45m84hjaehfun27it6j7umqdfb30@4ax.com>  D I'd appreciate any maintenance info on the venerable 200/mc terminalE server. I have several with power supply issues but no documentation.  Much thanks  	-Steve    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2003 12:02:06 -07004 From: bbaxter@denvernewspaperagency.com (Bob Baxter)$ Subject: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400= Message-ID: <477fb6c5.0310221102.7356d62b@posting.google.com>   F We are researching what it will take to implement a dial-out PPP on anE Alpha Server GS140e/8400 in Open VMS 7.2-1. We need to do an FTP over A the PPP connection.  FTP over the Internet is not an option.  The B business that we are connecting with has promised us the JCL (sic!6 #@$&*@!) needed to so this, but I haven't seen it yet.  B I've done some research on Google, so I have some ideas, but wouldF like to ask if anyone in a similar environment has actually done this.   I checked out this link:; http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6526/6526pro_002.html   C It looks like this link has most of the docs I need to set this up, A but since I don't have the hardware or the connection information 9 (phone #, IP address etc.) I can't try it out or test it.     
 My questions:   D 1.  It doesn't look like there is a serial port included with a baseB 8400/GS140e.  If we add a KFE72-BA, would this provide us with theB serial port we need for a dial-out modem?  Anyone have other ideas& about adding a serial port to an 8400?  ? 2.  Has anyone in a similar environment done a FTP over the PPP A without changing the other network (10/100 ethernet) connections?     3.  Any other ideas or gotcha's?      Thanks!   
 Bob Baxter Denver Newspaper Agency    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:15:22 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> ( Subject: Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400' Message-ID: <3F96D74A.3040904@MMaz.com>    Bob Baxter wrote:   G >We are researching what it will take to implement a dial-out PPP on an F >Alpha Server GS140e/8400 in Open VMS 7.2-1. We need to do an FTP overB >the PPP connection.  FTP over the Internet is not an option.  TheC >business that we are connecting with has promised us the JCL (sic! 7 >#@$&*@!) needed to so this, but I haven't seen it yet.  >    >  JCL is IBM, DCL is VMS.     C As for FTP over the Internet not being on option, that is patently  H stupid as there are many things that can be done to assure security and I data integrity not to mention that a dialup connection will be painfully  H slow and potentially unreliable for large transfers.  Being required to B do this over dialup, I'm a little surprised that DDCMP isn't also C required instead of PPP.  You should really appeal to the decision   makers here, IMHO...     Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:12:41 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>( Subject: Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400) Message-ID: <3F96D6A3.F889B4C0@istop.com>    Bob Baxter wrote:  > H > We are researching what it will take to implement a dial-out PPP on an- > Alpha Server GS140e/8400 in Open VMS 7.2-1.   J You need to specify which TCPIP stack you are running. PPP is available onD Alpha only if using the TCPIP Services from what used to be Digital.   > We need to do an FTP over > > the PPP connection.  FTP over the Internet is not an option.  I Actually, it doesn't really make a difference. Consider it as if you were  connecting to some ISP.   M Where you will have to thread carefully in the routing aspect. You'll have to G ensure that your machine knows that to connect to your peer's intranet, / packets need to flow through the PPP interface.   M Also be careful if both intranets are defined with private adress spaces that H overlap, the routing may become most interesting. (for instance, if yourM intranet is using 10.*.*.* address space and so is your peer, then it becomes I hard to tell your machine to route certain packets over the PPP interface 4 while others are routed through your local ethernet.  E > It looks like this link has most of the docs I need to set this up, C > but since I don't have the hardware or the connection information ; > (phone #, IP address etc.) I can't try it out or test it.   L You could get a normal dialup internet account from some local ISP and setupE your side of the thing with that. You'll then be comfortable with the I procedures and steps needed, and once your peer does provide you with the ? necessary information, you can then switch to those parameters.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:27:55 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>( Subject: Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/84004 Message-ID: <1031022152155.403A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ! On 22 Oct 2003, Bob Baxter wrote:   H > We are researching what it will take to implement a dial-out PPP on anG > Alpha Server GS140e/8400 in Open VMS 7.2-1. We need to do an FTP over C > the PPP connection.  FTP over the Internet is not an option.  The D > business that we are connecting with has promised us the JCL (sic!8 > #@$&*@!) needed to so this, but I haven't seen it yet. > D > I've done some research on Google, so I have some ideas, but wouldH > like to ask if anyone in a similar environment has actually done this.  = Which IP stack?  I've done it with TCPWare, but not with UCX.    > I checked out this link:= > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6526/6526pro_002.html  > E > It looks like this link has most of the docs I need to set this up, C > but since I don't have the hardware or the connection information ; > (phone #, IP address etc.) I can't try it out or test it.   ? You're looking at the UCX/TCPIP_Services docs.  If it's TCPWare # or Multinet, this won't help you...    > My questions:  > F > 1.  It doesn't look like there is a serial port included with a baseD > 8400/GS140e.  If we add a KFE72-BA, would this provide us with theD > serial port we need for a dial-out modem?  Anyone have other ideas( > about adding a serial port to an 8400?   No idea.  A > 2.  Has anyone in a similar environment done a FTP over the PPP C > without changing the other network (10/100 ethernet) connections?   A Once you get PPP up (and can ping over it), you shouldn't have to  do anything special for FTP.  F You'll probably need to define a static route over the PPP connection.A If you have other hosts on your LAN, or a more complicated setup, B and you want anything other than the Alpha to be able to talk over? the PPP link, you'll need to tell them explicitly by setting up B static routes on each host or by informing your local router aboutC the route or by enabling one of the dynamic routing protocols (RIP, B etc.)  If you only need to talk point-to-point (i.e. Alpha 8400 toC the host at the other end of the PPP line), you probably won't need  to worry about this.  " > 3.  Any other ideas or gotcha's? >    > 	 > Thanks!  >  > Bob Baxter > Denver Newspaper Agency  >  >    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:00:46 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>( Subject: Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/8400) Message-ID: <3F96E1E5.C0FAF0CC@istop.com>    "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:D > As for FTP over the Internet not being on option, that is patentlyI > stupid as there are many things that can be done to assure security and J > data integrity not to mention that a dialup connection will be painfully7 > slow and potentially unreliable for large transfers.      N If the IBM mainframe isn't connected to the internet, then it isn't a question* of making an FTP connection secure or not.  C > do this over dialup, I'm a little surprised that DDCMP isn't also D > required instead of PPP.  You should really appeal to the decision > makers here, IMHO...  " I doubt that IBM supports DDCMP...    N PPP and FTP over what would be a dedicated connection seems a fair solution toM me, certaintly better than forcing the VMS host to connect with a bysync line N and do some RJE, ensuring no punched card exceeds 80 bytes. (you need programs@ at each end to do the equivalent of MIME encoding and decoding).  N One more comment: try to find out from the peer if they will be granting you aJ fixed IP address across connections or if your IP address will change fromM connection to connection. If you intend to do some scripoting to automate the + process, this may (or may not) be an issue.   K Where you may experience problems is with DNS issues. If you already have a ? DNS server that is connected to the internet, trying to resolve N "ftp.ibmhost.com" to connect to the IBM peer would resuly in the request goingH to the internet for resolution. So you'll probably have to use actual IP adresses to reach the IBM host.   J (or use TCPIP SET HOST to locally define a host name associated with an IPN address, making sure that your IBM peer notifies you of changes to IP adresses you are expected to connect to.   R If they have a DNS server at their end, you could use NSLOOKUP to manually extract	 $NSLOOKUP  >SERVER <ip address> >ftp.ibmpeer.com  M This would then make a request to the IBM peer's DNS server for resolution of 0 the name, bypassing the real DNS infrastructure.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2003 16:36:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: Dial-out PPP on GS140e/84003 Message-ID: <RpAn6$Zm+Ngv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3F96E1E5.C0FAF0CC@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > $ > I doubt that IBM supports DDCMP... >   C    Why not?  We had DDCMP on our IBM.  Implemented by a third party G    recommended by IBM.  Later we switched it to ethernet and eventually     added IP.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:21:27 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) I Subject: Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities? 2 Message-ID: <rxClb.7620$e85.3006@news.cpqcorp.net>  d In article <bmqtq5$pn8ke$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes: : 2 :"Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> schreef in bericht- :news:3f90715c$0$236$626a54ce@news.free.fr... = :> From the OpenVMS to Itanium FAQ (http://tinyurl.com/rcuc):  :>F :> "Note that mixed architecture clusters of Alpha and Itanium will beK :> supported. We will continue to support mixed VAX and Alpha environments. H :> However, because there has been no demand for it our current plans do, :> not include support for VAX and Itanium". :>H :> Wrong. I answered the survey, I remember very well the question and I :> did ask for this feature.    I :> Anyway, don't worry, a senior expert from VMS Eng who wishes to remain I :> anonymous told me that "it will work perfectly for sure", which sounds J :> logical as, if VAX - Alpha clusters is a pleasure and Alpha - Integrity9 :> a feature, VAX - Alpha - Integrity will be a treasure.     E   Writing as a non-anonymous source, I would have to be somewhat more I   conservative and more cautious in my assurances.  And as Andy Goldstein H   happened to walk into my office while I was entering this, I asked him&   the same question -- and he concurs.     ..J :this question came up during the VMS tech update days in the Netherlands.* :The answer (given by Andy Goldstein) was:F :No, we're not supporting a VAX/AXP/I64 VMScluster nor will we provideM :support for that in the future. But we do not support VMS clusters with more K :than 96 nodes either. But we will continue to support VAX/AXP VMSclusters. L :Off line the question was put differently (not to A.G.): as long as VAX/AXPI :clustering is supported for a given VMS version and AXP/I64 clusters are J :also supported for that version, wouldn't that imply that VaxAxpI64 wouldI :also work? The answer given with a "that's obvious" kind of shrug: sure.     H   It's not quite so obvious to me.  Triple-architecture clustering will G   *probably* work, but that is not certain and is not something I would H   encourage dependence on.  (I already know of some I64 stuff around theG   edges of these configurations that won't work or that won't otherwise    be available on OpenVMS VAX.)   H   The central point here is one of the return on the investment that is D   involved with the requisite testing and the support effort -- and I   particularly on what y'all want dropped downward within the engineering J   and the testing and the development schedules to give preference to thisG   particular work.  (TANSTAAFL, after all.)  For what should be obvious I   reasons, at least the initial testing and support work targets customer J   cluster configurations with Alpha systems and clusters, and particularlyH   customer folks that have upgraded to the Alpha architecture; that have&   rebuilt to (or translated to) Alpha.  G   Other alternatives are to run an emulated VAX as an application on an I   OpenVMS Alpha configuration.  (But not to cluster that, obviously.)  Or     to run two (or more) clusters.  J   I am aware of no explicit changes going into OpenVMS that would lock-outI   this (unsupported) configuration, either.  But then don't expect folks  I   here in OpenVMS Engineering to scramble should something fail or should I   something bugcheck -- and I've personally and directly seen unsupported G   cluster configurations leading to system bugchecks (as drivers and as &   other low-level code gets confused).  H   The obvious question: what is keeping the OpenVMS VAX environment fromH   moving to OpenVMS Alpha, and how much is the continued preservation ofG   that environment worth while also adding OpenVMS I64 systems into the I   same configuration?  (And -- for better or worse -- if you need support G   for configurations like this, discussions here in a newsgroup may not H   get the attention that they deserve.  Teams of engineers could make anI   entire career out of fielding requests made here in the newsgroups. :-)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:38:21 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities? ) Message-ID: <3F96F8BC.ED724D9B@istop.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: I >   It's not quite so obvious to me.  Triple-architecture clustering will I >   *probably* work, but that is not certain and is not something I would  >   encourage dependence on.    L Does the clustering code have any platform specific handling ? For instance,? does an Alpha treat a VAX any differently than another Alpha ?    N Or is the clustering code and protocol totally agnostic to a point where if anL  PowerPC or Z80 version of VMS became available tomorrow, I could include inK in a VAX or Alpha cluster with those machines simply accepting the platform A name as a string that doesn't get used in conditional execution ?   M In other words, for an Alpha to support a new platform in a cluster, must the 0 Alpha have any code specific to that platform ?   L *IF* VAX doesn't cluster well with IA64, would it be more likely because theH VAX is missing something to interface to IA64, or because IA64 forgot to7 include an IF statement to deal with VAX architecture ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:56:06 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) I Subject: Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities? 2 Message-ID: <GGFlb.7637$cg5.4453@news.cpqcorp.net>  V In article <3F96F8BC.ED724D9B@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote:J :>   It's not quite so obvious to me.  Triple-architecture clustering willJ :>   *probably* work, but that is not certain and is not something I would :>   encourage dependence on.  : M :Does the clustering code have any platform specific handling ? For instance, @ :does an Alpha treat a VAX any differently than another Alpha ?  : O :Or is the clustering code and protocol totally agnostic to a point where if an M : PowerPC or Z80 version of VMS became available tomorrow, I could include in L :in a VAX or Alpha cluster with those machines simply accepting the platformB :name as a string that doesn't get used in conditional execution ? : N :In other words, for an Alpha to support a new platform in a cluster, must the1 :Alpha have any code specific to that platform ?   : M :*IF* VAX doesn't cluster well with IA64, would it be more likely because the I :VAX is missing something to interface to IA64, or because IA64 forgot to 8 :include an IF statement to deal with VAX architecture ?  I   There is far more to a cluster than simply the SCS wire-level protocol, $   as you are undoubtedly well aware.  I   If you had tried a particular configuration and found it failed, and if I   I had stated that the configuration should or would work, would you not F   then consider citing my statement(s) and initiating a formal support   request?    G   Sign a sufficiently large purchase order for your particular desired  F   triple-architecture cluster configuration, and the requisite supportG   and testing and associated scheduling can (probably) be (re)organized I   and support can (probably) be provided, either as a generic enhancement /   or as support specific to your configuration.   I   Or you could assume some particular feature(s) will be added -- whether E   triple-architecture clustering or otherwise -- and can wait for the J   implementation of the feature(s), and you can obviously formally requestI   future (generic) support for whatever feature(s) or whatever particular E   hardware and/or software configuration(s) you might desire or might 
   require.  G   As I have (very carefully) stated, triple-architecture configurations I   might well work, but you must realize there is a large (and potentially D   also very expensive) difference between the words MIGHT and WILL.    	--   J   Are y'all coming down to the technical bootcamp to learn more about what2   we are really up to here in OpenVMS Engineering?    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:55:41 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> I Subject: Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities? ' Message-ID: <3F97351D.D0960ED9@fsi.net>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > [snip]H >   Sign a sufficiently large purchase order for your particular desiredH >   triple-architecture cluster configuration, and the requisite supportI >   and testing and associated scheduling can (probably) be (re)organized K >   and support can (probably) be provided, either as a generic enhancement 1 >   or as support specific to your configuration.   G That would be nice, wouldn't it? Having demand for a product or feature  before it is even developed?  B Trouble is, that darn old horse just *INSISTS* on pulling the cart instead of pushing it!  = P.O.'s come *AFTER* the marketing effort, not before. Y'know, > "marketing"? Adverts, salesmanship, promotionals and all that?  G Oh yeah, sorry - forgot. VMS folks don't know what all that is. Seems a < shame - they're such bright, intelligent people otherwise...  H Maybe they need a true leader to light their way out of that darkness...   >  > [snip] > L >   Are y'all coming down to the technical bootcamp to learn more about what4 >   we are really up to here in OpenVMS Engineering?  F Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.   Welcome to the real world, Neo.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:16:14 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Did someone ask HP for VAX to Itanium cluster possibilities? ) Message-ID: <3F9747D6.F96EB1AF@istop.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: K >   There is far more to a cluster than simply the SCS wire-level protocol, & >   as you are undoubtedly well aware.  J I was more interested in the VMS clustering architecture from the point ofI view of how it is implemented in software.  Let me rephrase the question:   K Does a node present itself over SCS as a neutral vanilla node, allowing any G architecture to present itself to a cluster without other nodes needing  knowledge of that architecure ?   L Or does each architecture need code in itself to support other architectures participating in the cluster ?  H Is there 32 vs 64 bit differences in the communications between nodes ? M Should there be a mythical implementation of VMS on the 32 bit 8086, could it M announce itself as a 32 bit architecture to the cluster and thus be included, J or would the rest of the cluster need to have code to support the specific platform of a 32 bit 8086 ?     K >   If you had tried a particular configuration and found it failed, and if K >   I had stated that the configuration should or would work, would you not H >   then consider citing my statement(s) and initiating a formal support >   request?  K Not asking if X and Y will be supported. Just wondering about the technical E implementation of clustering with regards to how/where differences in   polatforms are isolated/handled.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2003 19:33:14 -0700' From: majikas@dnpg.com (Dennis Majikas) N Subject: Re: DNPG products also through a partner (was: DNPG - No DEC anymore)= Message-ID: <f496ee6a.0310221833.41108488@posting.google.com>   F Digital Networks (aka DNPG) is alive and well. We are still designing,B shipping and supporting the DECserver products. Most of the legacyF products (MS900, GIGAswitch/FDDI, etc.) are distributed through VnetekE Communications. We are in the same building, and we still answer many : questions about the legacy DNPG products on a daily basis.   Regards,   Dennis Majikas Digital Networks 603-216-6026  1 (Your former GIGAswitch/FDDI product manager, and $ Technical Assistance Center manager)  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<AinZ7w+kClfg@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <f30679fb.0310191126.12fda345@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes: > > Do you know this ?   > > 3 > > The DEC products acquired by Digital Netwworks  % > > were migrated do another company:  > > 	 > > From:  > >  > > http://www.dnpg.com  > >  > > To:  > >  > > http://www.vnetek.com/ > . > Well, on my screen http://www.dnpg.com says: > 8 > 	Many of these Heritage products are available through* > 	our partner Vnetek Communications, LLC.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 20:15:42 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>Y Subject: Re: HP announces new AlphaServer systems and enhancements to Tru64 UNIX and Open 2 Message-ID: <OzBlb.7606$965.1856@news.cpqcorp.net>  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: D > You might think that at least the SPECint scores are significantly= > superior, until you take into account that they can only be E > generated using the HP-UX compiler (which has so far been about 20% 6 > ahead of the rest of the world in SPECint on Itanic)  C You left-out that the SPECfp_rate2000 figures for the Superdome you = provided are also from HP compilers, and that to date, the HP B compilers for SPECfp have not been as fast as the Intel compilers.  ? Also, it is not clear that the 20% delta you claim is accurate. = Perhaps it was in the past, but not today.  From a search at: A http://www.spec.org/cgi-bin/osgresults asking for SPECint2000 and F Itanium processor, on October 22nd. 2003, I find (among many results):  3 Bull NovaScale 4040 (1500MHz) 1 1107 1093 Aug-2003  E Dell Dell PowerEdge 3250 (1.5GHz/6MB, Itanium2) 1 1099 1099 Aug-2003  E HP Integrity Server rx2600 (1500 MHz, Itanium 2) 1 1322 1322 Jul-2003 E HP Integrity Server rx5670 (1500 MHz, Itanium 2) 1 1312 1312 Jul-2003 @ HP Workstation zx6000 (1500 MHz, Itanium 2) 1 1315 1315 Jul-2003: SGI SGI Altix 3000 (1500MHz, Itanium 2) 1 -- 1243 Sep-2003  D From the SGI Altix 3000 score of 1243 to the rx2600 score of 1322 isE only 6.4%, not the 20% you claim above. Now, if the data you you were F using was out of date, I could see where you might have arrived at theE "about 20% claim" given that from 1107/1093/1099 to 1322 is ~19-20%.    
 rick jones  D BTW, the "scaling" on SPECrate from 16 to 32 to 64 processors on theE Superdome is it seems rather good (as it also seems on the 1280 if my A cursory glance is accurate).  If it has been a month since you've F looked at http://www.spec.org (infering from your 20% claim) you might= not have seen those yet. They were just published this month.    --  . a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only"F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:46:36 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: HP announces new AlphaServer systems and enhancements to Tru64 UNIX and Open 2 Message-ID: <l5-dnQvf5a27wAqiU-KYvA@metrocast.net>  3 "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message , news:OzBlb.7606$965.1856@news.cpqcorp.net...+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: F > > You might think that at least the SPECint scores are significantly? > > superior, until you take into account that they can only be G > > generated using the HP-UX compiler (which has so far been about 20% 8 > > ahead of the rest of the world in SPECint on Itanic) > E > You left-out that the SPECfp_rate2000 figures for the Superdome you ? > provided are also from HP compilers, and that to date, the HP D > compilers for SPECfp have not been as fast as the Intel compilers.  L You're of course welcome to characterize any such difference if you consider& it significant (as I did for SPECint).   > A > Also, it is not clear that the 20% delta you claim is accurate.   $ Then allow me to clarify it for you.  , > Perhaps it was in the past, but not today.  J Yes, today (look at the software availability date on the single exception
 you list).     From a search at: C > http://www.spec.org/cgi-bin/osgresults asking for SPECint2000 and H > Itanium processor, on October 22nd. 2003, I find (among many results): > 4 > Bull NovaScale 4040 (1500MHz) 1 1107 1093 Aug-2003F > Dell Dell PowerEdge 3250 (1.5GHz/6MB, Itanium2) 1 1099 1099 Aug-2003G > HP Integrity Server rx2600 (1500 MHz, Itanium 2) 1 1322 1322 Jul-2003 G > HP Integrity Server rx5670 (1500 MHz, Itanium 2) 1 1312 1312 Jul-2003 B > HP Workstation zx6000 (1500 MHz, Itanium 2) 1 1315 1315 Jul-2003< > SGI SGI Altix 3000 (1500MHz, Itanium 2) 1 -- 1243 Sep-2003 > F > From the SGI Altix 3000 score of 1243 to the rx2600 score of 1322 is) > only 6.4%, not the 20% you claim above.   K Note the 'so far' in the sentence in question:  it's not December 2003 yet.     Now, if the data you you wereH > using was out of date, I could see where you might have arrived at theF > "about 20% claim" given that from 1107/1093/1099 to 1322 is ~19-20%.  I The fact that 18 months after the HP compiler started posting roughly 20% L higher SPECint scores than anyone else a new Intel compiler is finally aboutG to improve significantly is hardly a refutation of the generalization I J made - unless HP has been sitting on its hands for all that time and won'tH have any similar performance improvements of its own to release any time soon.    >  > rick jones > F > BTW, the "scaling" on SPECrate from 16 to 32 to 64 processors on theG > Superdome is it seems rather good (as it also seems on the 1280 if my C > cursory glance is accurate).  If it has been a month since you've H > looked at http://www.spec.org (infering from your 20% claim) you might? > not have seen those yet. They were just published this month.   " You are correct:  I spoke loosely.  I Superdome *itself* indeed scales quite linearly from 16 to 64 processors, G just as the 1280 does.  Its problem is in scaling from small systems (4 K processors or less) up to 16 (or more likely even just 8):  the 1280 scales J linearly in this region as well, while scaling linearity really sucks whenI moving from a 1- to 4-processor zx1 HP system to a 16-processor Superdome  system.   L The net result is that while an N-processor 1280 system gives you very closeK to N times the SPECint/fp performance of a single-processor 1280 system, an E N-processor Superdome system gives you somewhat less than N times the K SPECint performance of a single-processor HP Itanic system and a *lot* less J than N times the SPECfp performance of a single-processor HP Itanic systemL (and is even more pathetic in scaling linearity up from zx1 systems in TPC-CJ as well, though that benchmark was not part of the discussion since HP has6 elected not to release TPC-C results for EV7 systems).  L Hence my somewhat loosely-worded comment about Superdome's ability to scale.I While we'd need to see Superdome results down to 4 processors to be sure, K I'm perfectly willing to entertain the idea that Superdome scales just fine B but simply sucks across the board in making the performance of the- processors in it available for effective use.0   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2003 15:21:56 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)l; Subject: Re: HP offers WebLogic on OpenVMS, NonStop serverse= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0310221421.5fb9d022@posting.google.com>t  V "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net> wrote in message news:<3F96BB77.499A6544@nac.net>...W > Although this news is a bit dated, it is something positive to report with OpenVMS inn > the headline.t  % Thanks for pointing out that article.   D Because it provides such wide computer-industry exposure, it's great? to see quotes in Computerworld like this one from that article:a  ? "While the Alpha chip that the operating system runs on will be B consigned to history, HP has said it will offer OpenVMS on Itanium servers starting next year."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 02:08:26 GMTM# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r; Subject: Re: HP offers WebLogic on OpenVMS, NonStop serversnJ Message-ID: <uKGlb.245746$ko%.131591@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Keith Parris wrote:e4 > "Wayne W. Scott" <wscott@nac.net> wrote in message% > news:<3F96BB77.499A6544@nac.net>...nA >> Although this news is a bit dated, it is something positive to ' >> report with OpenVMS in the headline.  >r' > Thanks for pointing out that article.n >oF > Because it provides such wide computer-industry exposure, it's greatA > to see quotes in Computerworld like this one from that article:n > A > "While the Alpha chip that the operating system runs on will berD > consigned to history, HP has said it will offer OpenVMS on Itanium > servers starting next year."  J Sure it's a good sign, but as long as the press writes stuff that *sounds*J as though HP is having second thoughts, as in " HP has said" as opposed to= 'HP *will* offer', people will think that HP isn't committed.   K Funnily enough, that's where advertising comes it. It allows companies thataA place the ads the opportunity to say exactly what *they* mean andAJ communicate with their current and prospective customers. And also funnilyL enough, when companies increase the sales of their products, they often make more money.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:03:21 GMTE9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>mH Subject: Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results2 Message-ID: <JDzlb.7595$%Q4.6170@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageM, news:xtudnbwQ8OSW3wiiU-KYvg@metrocast.net... >hI > VMS doesn't usually employ incompetents.  Are you the exception, or aree you7L > simply incompetent outside your narrow specialty (and don't have the sense > to know it)? >e  , Funny comment from a digruntled ex-employee.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:27:09 -0400-. From: Steve DiPirro <steve.dipirro@oracle.com>H Subject: Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results* Message-ID: <3F96DA0D.374C1420@oracle.com>  N Well, you might be disgruntled too, Fred, if you had two first names like thisP guy...although I could be wrong. I know I STILL wouldn't be too disgruntled (canJ you tell I like that word?), driving around in a fancy car, top down, windP blowing through what's left of my hair, smokin' a Cuban, laughing all the way to2 the bank and back...even if I had two first names.   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . > news:xtudnbwQ8OSW3wiiU-KYvg@metrocast.net... > > K > > VMS doesn't usually employ incompetents.  Are you the exception, or are2 > you N > > simply incompetent outside your narrow specialty (and don't have the sense > > to know it)? > >w > . > Funny comment from a digruntled ex-employee.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:15:34 -0400e* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Itanium/Integrity & EV7/Marvel leadership benchmark results2 Message-ID: <i6ucnRc_a7BCyAqiU-KYvQ@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:JDzlb.7595$%Q4.6170@news.cpqcorp.net... >e7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageh. > news:xtudnbwQ8OSW3wiiU-KYvg@metrocast.net... > >'K > > VMS doesn't usually employ incompetents.  Are you the exception, or are- > you-H > > simply incompetent outside your narrow specialty (and don't have the senseh > > to know it)? > >R >D. > Funny comment from a digruntled ex-employee.  I Your logic escapes me, Fred.  But then logic never was one of your strongl points.i  K Still not offering even a suggestion of substance, though:  at least you're ! consistent - sort of like Andrew.n   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:02:44 -0500i/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> / Subject: Re: memory upgrade for uVAX and Alpha? 3 Message-ID: <3F96E264.502C0720@applied-synergy.com>    John Laird wrote:g > J > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:09:24 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> > wrote: >  > >Chris Scheers wrote:yM > >> Then it gets weird.  The two memory boards are different.  They stack onl9 > >> top of each other and your combinations are limited.t > >>0 > >> 0 or 1 from MS42-KA (8MB) or MS42-CA (16MB)0 > >> 0 or 1 from MS42-AB (4MB) or MS42-BA (12MB) > >eQ > >What happens if you stick 2 MS42-CA boards ? Do you get 32 megs with the 4 meg P > >that is onboard disabled ? (on the all mighty Microvax II, the on-board 1 meg8 > >gets disabled when you put in 16meg of external ram). > N > You can't stack them.  The 8Mb and 16Mb boards are physically different fromI > the 4Mb and 12Mb options.  You can only stack dislike boards.  Possible., > options are (the first 4Mb being onboard): >  > 4 + 4 = 8e > 4 + 8 = 12
 > 4 + 12 = 16i
 > 4 + 16 = 20o > 4 + 4 + 8 = 16 > 4 + 4 + 16 = 24c > 4 + 12 + 8 = 24a > 4 + 12 + 16 = 32 > > > Two ways of making 16Mb and 24Mb, and no way of making 28Mb.    ? FWIW: I think there was a third party 24MB board. (Clearpoint?)l  D This allowed you to upgrade from 8MB to 32MB without having to throwF away the MS42-AB board.  This board with the base 4MB would give you a 28MB configuration.t  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------u$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com e   Fax: 817-237-3074r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:02:20 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500a2 Message-ID: <MCzlb.7594$UU4.2203@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagea, news:ididnaDGBNE7owiiU-KYgg@metrocast.net... >lK > Of course, exactly how you determined that people of like mind constituteaK > only 0.3% of c.o.v.'s readership is somewhat questionable (sort of like ao > lot of HP's PR). >t  K Frankly, it's because I get a stream of complaints via email about you, and L a stream of emails agreeing with me.  None of the writers hacve any interest9 in writing in this forum to be cut up by your poison pen.s  G In fact, if 3-4 posters would dissapear - 95% of the true negative spin I would be gone... leaving those who - while not always happy - want VMS to  succeed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:03:33 -0400-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500D) Message-ID: <3F96D47F.24CD83C2@istop.com>3   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > In fact, if 3-4 posters would dissapear - 95% of the true negative spinaK > would be gone... leaving those who - while not always happy - want VMS toi
 > succeed.  D If 3-4 posters were to be censored, then only positive HP spin by HPN apologists would be published, painting a rosy picture of the VMS environment,K painting IA64 as the next best thing since sliced bread, connvincing people.J that advertising is not necessary for VMS, convincing everyone that VMS isM alive and doing well and hiding any negative stories about VMS (such as largec customers jumping ship).  M You can have all the positive spin you want on the HP web site (or as much aswK HP allows you to put publicly), but on a newsgroup, seing both sides of thea coin is very important.   M I don't expect you or any other HP employee to ever publicly acknowledge thattL lack of marketing is a big problem, or that VMS is in fact losing customers,K or that killing Alpha (at least so early) was a big mistake that is costingoK customers. I realise where your paycheck comes from and don't expect you to  jeoperdize it.  M You may not be allowed to publish negative stories, but non HP employees are.iM You may not be allowed to disagree with your current regime for fear as being I accused of being unpatriotic, but folks from other countries are able to.   J You want to call naysayers "unpatriotic towards VMS". Fine. In the end, it reflects poorly on you.   E A little dose of reality is necessary. Listening and believing to theaN propaganda coming from one side only is VERY bad.  American citizens refuse toN believe all the stories of human right violations that have occured in the USAN since Ashcroft/Rumsfeld took power. The media didn't have the guts to questionE some of the statements and actions made by your regime to justify the L treatment of ctizens, immigrtants and visitors. Your media didn't dare pointF out that Amnisty International had put its own people to monotor civilE liberties/human right abuses in the USA, something they used to do inhL dictatorships or totalitarian regimes such as USSR. And because of that, theH citizens were lead to believe that those statement were true and actionsI totally justified. Heck, even the official oopposition had been forced toh6 support it for fear of having been labeld unpatriotic.  L One day, americans will wake to what had happened and feel very ashamed thatM they didn't do anything to stop it while it was happening and wonder how come9L they had been so gullible and why they decided to insult the allies that hadM consistently warned them of the mistakes the USA regime was making instead ofiM heeding their warnings and preventing all those big mistakes from being made.h  J I can't help but see the same analogy with VMS here. You want to blast theK naysayers who point to the mistakes HP is making ? You should kiss them andtN send them chocolates because they are giving those who can act the informationK needed to fix the problems. If you insist on closing your eyes on problems,s they will never get fixed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:31:04 -0700o/ From: Greg Cagle <news@removethisgregcagle.com>a; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500y. Message-ID: <vpdmnqio1uo27@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:n   > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > I >>In fact, if 3-4 posters would dissapear - 95% of the true negative spineK >>would be gone... leaving those who - while not always happy - want VMS tot
 >>succeed. >  > F > If 3-4 posters were to be censored, then only positive HP spin by HPP > apologists would be published, painting a rosy picture of the VMS environment,M > painting IA64 as the next best thing since sliced bread, connvincing people L > that advertising is not necessary for VMS, convincing everyone that VMS isO > alive and doing well and hiding any negative stories about VMS (such as largee > customers jumping ship).  G The thing you're missing here is the silent majority. I've seen this inyC other similar situations. The majority of traffic in this newsgroupCH (and many others) is taken up with the radicals arguing with each other.H There isn't a whole lot of actual technical discussion. My guess is that@ the vast majority have reached their own conclusions and are nowA tuning the radicals (both positive and negative) out. People willRE only put up with a certain amount of yelling and screaming, no matter E what side it's on. Let's face it, most of the people in this businesse> have a job to do and don't have the time or the inclination to% get involved in tilting at windmills.h   -- n
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:51:24 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500oC Message-ID: <0dBlb.27$3f.0@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>y   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageB. > news:ididnaDGBNE7owiiU-KYgg@metrocast.net... >>A >> Of course, exactly how you determined that people of like mindcG >> constitute only 0.3% of c.o.v.'s readership is somewhat questionableD# >> (sort of like a lot of HP's PR).c >> >pD > Frankly, it's because I get a stream of complaints via email aboutD > you, and a stream of emails agreeing with me.  None of the writersB > hacve any interest in writing in this forum to be cut up by your
 > poison pen.c > D > In fact, if 3-4 posters would dissapear - 95% of the true negativeD > spin would be gone... leaving those who - while not always happy - > want VMS to succeed.    * So who is on your 'Hit List', Mr. Soprano?  3 Nobody here, aside from Andrew, is negative on VMS.>? Everyone here, aside from Andrew, wants VMS to thrive and grow.nJ Most everyone here believes that HP is not doing what it should to promoteJ the growth of VMS in the marketplace - such lack of action makes it harderG and harder with each passing day to keep our managements convinced thate/ keeping VMS in use in our shops is a good idea.wH That's why the opinions expressed, which you seem to have great distaste for, are in fact expressed.-  I With HP managment's heads shoved so far up their butts they can't see the G light of day, we hope that those from HP who do frequent this forum canoH carry the message to your management because they have show a surprisingF lack of responsiveness to most reasoned and rational arguements placedK before them. And before you say it's no wonder they don't respond given the C 'tone' of opinions expressed in c.o.v., I would say to you that younJ obviously have not seen the letters and comments I and others have writtenL to the Board of Directors, carly(tm), Marcell, Gorham, and others to know ofH the tone and reasoned, cogent, and thoughtful issues and ideas discussed therein.    L BTW - If you were a government official and 'wished' for certain individualsE to 'disappear', you might be guily of a felony for even expressing anu opinion like that.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:37:54 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: OpenVMS in an HP advertismentC Message-ID: <m0Blb.21$3f.2@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>p   John Santos wrote:( > On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, John Smith wrote: >  >> Nic Clews wrote:n >>> Sue Skonetski wrote: >>>> >>>> OpenVMS AdvertismenteD >>>> Post in comp.os.vms To folks that say that they support OpenVMS >>>> 34 responsesn >>>> aprox 6 postive responses >>>> rest are complaints >>>tH >>> This ad is also full page in this weeks (21/10) "Computer Weekly" in >>> the UK.  >> >>D >> So give that there's only a 5 hour time difference between the UKB >> and US Eastern Time, we should expect to see a flood of OpenVMS >> advertisements in the USA:  >>6 >> a) 5 hours after the UK ones appear (GMT - 5 hours)0 >> b) 5 days after the UK ones (air mail delays)0 >> c) 5 weeks after the UK ones (shipped by sea)F >> d) 5 months after the UK ones (how long it takes for HP USA to clue& >> in) e) 5 millenia after the UK ones >>> >> Choose carefully. Only one of the above choices is correct. >aD > I hope it's "e".  If VMS is still around in 7003 (with a mere 3000C > years to go before the YYYY date overflows and the mythic "futureo3 > version" has to be released), I'll be happy.  ;-)h    6 You'd be the only customer left standing at that time.  L Just imagine what your support/maintenance fees will be for current versions8 then. Or will you still be running v7.2 on EV68 Alpha's?   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2003 13:02:08 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips)t Subject: OpenVMS Roadmap= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0310221202.312334d2@posting.google.com>b  C Can anyone actually read the roadmap? Or is there some magic buttoniD I'm missing that will make this pos readable? Or do I really need toD download the thing to read it? I have a 17" monitor but I doubt that= even a 60" would be enough. Or, is the roadmap posted legiblyn someplace other than:f  > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm  ' This page is a waste of good electrons.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:17:16 -0400e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Roadmap) Message-ID: <3F96E5C1.922C6ED4@istop.com>o   DL Phillips wrote: > ( > Can anyone actually read the roadmap?  > @ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm    M The page abuses frames and some of the frames are not visible unless you have 6 a screen size that is the same as the web designer's.   3 I did find a link to a PDF format for the contents:sV http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files//OPENVMS_ROADMAPS.PDF  H "View source" is a good friend when visiting such poorly designed pages.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:00:33 -0400a+ From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS RoadmapB Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031022170020.04ad2148@mail.patmedia.net>  * At 04:02 PM 10/22/2003, DL Phillips wrote:D >Can anyone actually read the roadmap? Or is there some magic buttonE >I'm missing that will make this pos readable? Or do I really need torE >download the thing to read it? I have a 17" monitor but I doubt that > >even a 60" would be enough. Or, is the roadmap posted legibly >someplace other than: >i? >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htmw  L You can click on the different formats "PPT" "PDF" or "PS" on the line at=20G the bottom of the page that reads "Download the Presentation Source:=20i/ =BB  (PPT 2.6MB)   =BB  (PDF)   =BB  (ZIP PS) "    PPT is Powerpointt  < And see them either in your browser or on you local desktop.   Ken =20d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:15:45 -0400,  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Roadmap4 Message-ID: <1031022221234.403G-100000@Ives.egh.com>  " On 22 Oct 2003, DL Phillips wrote:  E > Can anyone actually read the roadmap? Or is there some magic buttonoF > I'm missing that will make this pos readable? Or do I really need toF > download the thing to read it? I have a 17" monitor but I doubt that? > even a 60" would be enough. Or, is the roadmap posted legiblys > someplace other than:c > @ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm > ) > This page is a waste of good electrons.A  F Opera lets you scale the page you're viewing.  I haven't tried it with5 the roadmap, but will when I get home, if I remember.h  ) It's unreadable on a 19" monitor as well.e   -- a John Santoso Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:20:11 -0400e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Roadmap) Message-ID: <3F9748C4.163CEBCF@istop.com>u   John Santos wrote:H > Opera lets you scale the page you're viewing.  I haven't tried it with7 > the roadmap, but will when I get home, if I remember.i    N One can scale frames when the HTML does not specifically prohibit it. But manyL HTML editors put code to explicitely remove scroll bars and thus implicitelyQ prevent scaling of frames (since you have nowhere to click on to resize a frame).f  J This is the same with all the bloody javascipt code that opens new windows with all menu optiosn disabled.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:01:44 +0000a- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Roadmap* Message-ID: <3F9760B8.8050007@bigpond.com>   JF Mezei espoused: > John Santos wrote: > H >>Opera lets you scale the page you're viewing.  I haven't tried it with7 >>the roadmap, but will when I get home, if I remember.r >  >  > P > One can scale frames when the HTML does not specifically prohibit it. But manyN > HTML editors put code to explicitely remove scroll bars and thus implicitelyS > prevent scaling of frames (since you have nowhere to click on to resize a frame).o > L > This is the same with all the bloody javascipt code that opens new windows! > with all menu optiosn disabled.v >   A Using Mozilla 1.4 and using the "about:config" menu you can forcei. the frame borders (and menus) to always be on.   Regards, Dave.i -- rI David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.comsI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/oI DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmoI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennone   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:53:21 +0200-( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Roadmap: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONOEJDCEAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  P with the original WEBsite I do have problems to read the roadmap. But there is aK PDF version at the bottem site. This is readable also on a small monitor, I3	 think so.0   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:33:11 GMTo> From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> Subject: Re: Product problem8 Message-ID: <rbzlb.128$Jb7.7@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>   Hank Vander Waal wrote:r  K > I have a Alpha/VMS 7.1-1h2 system and I am trying to do product remove of 
 > decnetV.K > I started out by just trying to do a product show product * and I got the  > erroraN > error opening sys$common:[sysexe]dec-axpvms-decnet_osi-v0701.pcsi$database;1
 > as input > directory not foundd > no such file > > > But if I do a directory of sys$common:[sysexe] it is there !M > I am doing all this from the sys$system directory and under a fully priv'ed 	 > accountp > / > If I try to do a product remove of decnet_ositN > it say the file sys$common:[sysexe]pcsi$processor.pcsi$database is not found > !! >  >  >     ( boot the 7.1 CD and "tailor off" DECNET.   Michael Austin.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Oct 2003 13:04:27 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s Subject: Re: Product problem3 Message-ID: <sAQSE6w7Qqf$@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  q In article <PBEDIAGOKEDCKCLPJKAFMEMNCDAA.hvanderw@comcast.net>, "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net> writes:o > > > But if I do a directory of sys$common:[sysexe] it is there !  1    directory/full to make sure it's really there.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:16:50 -0400d/ From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net>- Subject: RE: Product problem? Message-ID: <PBEDIAGOKEDCKCLPJKAFAENNCDAA.hvanderw@comcast.net>j   Yes the files are really there  L I booted off a 7.1 cd and tried to remove Decnet V and it came back and saidK that dra0 is NOT a system disk...  Tried to show the installed products andS
 it errors outr  L Can the PCSI files become corrupt?  If so is there any way to fix them?  Can' one remove them and have them rebuilt??n     -----Original Message-----B From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]) Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 3:04 PMd To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu Subject: Re: Product problem    L In article <PBEDIAGOKEDCKCLPJKAFMEMNCDAA.hvanderw@comcast.net>, "Hank Vander$ Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net> writes: >o> > But if I do a directory of sys$common:[sysexe] it is there !  1    directory/full to make sure it's really there.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:42:21 -0400t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Product problem) Message-ID: <3F96EBA0.357E9D88@istop.com>f   Hank Vander Waal wrote:oN > I booted off a 7.1 cd and tried to remove Decnet V and it came back and said% > that dra0 is NOT a system disk...     K PCSI really wants to play only on system disks. YOu probably need to definek: some logicals to ensure that it points to the right files.  K Another thing you may wish to do is SET WATCH FILE/CLASS=ALL and then issueuL the proper PRODUCT command to see exactly which file/directory it looks for.S The one prior to the error message should normally be the one it has problems with.-  N There are logicals one can set to help steer PRODUCT to the right files, but I don't have a list handy.  M The PRODUCT developper's guide could help you better understand what it triesDM to do. Last time I downloaded it, it was named OVMS_73_PCSI_GD.pdf. It offersN> some insights on logcal names and how kits are structured etc.   Sorry, lost the URL.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:57:01 -0600t8 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam>! Subject: SMTP Performance Problem 1 Message-ID: <iiBlb.681$G_1.53881@news.uswest.net>l  D Is there anyway to have the SMTP server send more than one email perK session?  When we get a lot of emails, it takes forever to clear the queue.n   Thanks,)
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:10:10 -0400e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Re: SMTP Performance Problem>) Message-ID: <3F96E418.3C8FB574@istop.com>w   "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > F > Is there anyway to have the SMTP server send more than one email perM > session?  When we get a lot of emails, it takes forever to clear the queue.   N Unfortunatly not. Each queue entry represents a message that could potentiallyM be adressed to many people at different hosts. So while processing a message,hF the SMTP server will send one copy to all recipients on one host, thenN disconnectt, then send one copy to all recipients on a different host until itG has delivered to all recipients. Then, it moves on to the next message.s  L They would have to ditch the VMS batch queues architecture and go with theirK own indexed file structure where messages would be indexed with a secondaryhM key of domain name. This way, the sender could connect to one domain and sendtJ all messages with recipients destined for that domain in one session, thenL move on to the next domain. However, sorted by domain, your message wouldn't( really have delivery order you'd expect.  K I guess the one improvement they could make is to hold on to a session withtJ server X after it has finished processing a message and then continue withK that session if the next message is destined to same server, otherwise dropt3 the session and re-establish with the other server. K (and in case it was the last message in a queue, disconnect session after Xr seconds of inactivity).    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:41:54 -04001* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: SMTP server behind an ADSL Switch?t) Message-ID: <3F96C161.B6CED1C0@istop.com>1   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:SO > If on the other hand they really do refer to a NAT default host as a DMZ then1 > they are misusing that term.   Thanks, that is what I thought.H  K I hear widnows weenies saying things like "I put my machine in the DMZ". ByeG this, they simply configured their router to send all calls to that one , machine. It didn't mean any phsical changes.  J Also, home routers don't provide a "zone". By your description, a real DMZN offers an ethernet segment that could have multiple machines. But for domesticI routers, the "DMZ" is a single host on the same ethernet segment as otherh hosts in your intranet.   L This gets muddled a bit when you have only one wintel machine behind the natM router. At that point, I guess it becomes possible to turn your intranet into  a DMZ.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:38:04 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>e" Subject: Spam from Hewlett-Packard* Message-ID: <3F9706CC.109@Flying-Disk.com>  : Some time ago, someone signed me up for a bunch of mailing> lists.   Fortunately, most of them were true confirmed opt-in,7 so when I didn't reply to the confirmation requests, myn> address was dropped from the list.   Not so with HP, so I have# been getting their spam ever since.K  = To make matters worse it was all in HTML, which is a bit hard 9 to read on a VAX with VMS Mail.   Plus, it was all for PCi: stuff which I am not about to buy from HP, especially now.  = To make it even worse, none of the opt-out mechanisms worked,r< including complaints to abuse@hp.com and abuse@cw.net (their< upstream).   Ironically, the head of CW's security and abuse= department is Bill Hancock, an old-time DECUS personality and  true spam-hater.  @ I just got off the phone with two of Hewlett-Packard's "Privacy"? department managers regarding their spam list.   Finally, I had @ been able to get an HP employee to forward my complaint to theirC internal help address, which forwarded it several times, eventuallyr" reaching their Privacy Department.  ? They eventually promised to listwash all my domains after first C only agreeing to listwash the specific addresses I first complaineds about.  @ However, my big complaint was that they are entirely opt-out and; have no intention of using confirmed opt-in (they called it @ "double opt-in", the mark of a true spammer).   They say that no9 large company does, so it would put them at a competitived
 disadvantage.s  ? I explained to them how their signup web site was being used as & an abuse tool, but they were unswayed.  = I also noted that California law requires "ADV:" as the firstM< four characters of the subject line, but they said that they8 don't have to.   Interesting, since both HP and I are in California.0  > They are both familiar with MAPS, but say they will not follow? MAPS's "Basic Mailing List Management Guidelines for Preventingx* Abuse", and have no intention of doing so.  @ Perhaps someone with greater persuasive powers than I have could- educate them.   The people I talked with are:m      Debbie Thomsonw    PSG Customer Privacy Managern    Houston, TX  CCA4 - 4307e    phone:  281.514.4276i    fax:  281.927.4525%!    email:   debbie.thomson@hp.com0  
 and her boss,-      Dan Swartwood    HP Privacy OfficerP    Houston, TX    phone:  281.518.9564i    fax:  281.927.4525n     email:   dan.swartwood@hp.com  ? Dan appears to be a pretty bright guy and knows exactly what hef> is doing, so this is not casual ignorance.   He says that theyB opt-out over 50 people a day, so he is not unaware of the problem.= I hope that someone can convince them to change away from thej
 dark side.  ' Alan           Remove "REMOVE" to reply2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:46:08 -0400e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>& Subject: Re: Spam from Hewlett-Packard, Message-ID: <3F9732E0.9070202@tsoft-inc.com>   Alan Frisbie wrote:l  < > Some time ago, someone signed me up for a bunch of mailing@ > lists.   Fortunately, most of them were true confirmed opt-in,9 > so when I didn't reply to the confirmation requests, mys@ > address was dropped from the list.   Not so with HP, so I have% > been getting their spam ever since.t > ? > To make matters worse it was all in HTML, which is a bit hards; > to read on a VAX with VMS Mail.   Plus, it was all for PCo< > stuff which I am not about to buy from HP, especially now. > ? > To make it even worse, none of the opt-out mechanisms worked,2> > including complaints to abuse@hp.com and abuse@cw.net (their> > upstream).   Ironically, the head of CW's security and abuse? > department is Bill Hancock, an old-time DECUS personality andf > true spam-hater. > B > I just got off the phone with two of Hewlett-Packard's "Privacy"A > department managers regarding their spam list.   Finally, I had B > been able to get an HP employee to forward my complaint to theirE > internal help address, which forwarded it several times, eventuallyc$ > reaching their Privacy Department. > A > They eventually promised to listwash all my domains after firsteE > only agreeing to listwash the specific addresses I first complained4 > about. > B > However, my big complaint was that they are entirely opt-out and= > have no intention of using confirmed opt-in (they called itnB > "double opt-in", the mark of a true spammer).   They say that no; > large company does, so it would put them at a competitiveO > disadvantage.- > A > I explained to them how their signup web site was being used asH( > an abuse tool, but they were unswayed. > ? > I also noted that California law requires "ADV:" as the first > > four characters of the subject line, but they said that they: > don't have to.   Interesting, since both HP and I are in
 > California.i    K Possibly the California Attorney General would be a bit interested in such u@ scofflaws?  It would at least get a bit more of their attention.    @ > They are both familiar with MAPS, but say they will not followA > MAPS's "Basic Mailing List Management Guidelines for Preventinge, > Abuse", and have no intention of doing so.     Isn't turnabout fair play?    B > Perhaps someone with greater persuasive powers than I have could/ > educate them.   The people I talked with are:J >  >   Debbie Thomson  >   PSG Customer Privacy Manager >   Houston, TX  CCA4 - 4307 >   phone:  281.514.4276 >   fax:  281.927.4525" >   email:   debbie.thomson@hp.com >  > and her boss,W >  >   Dan Swartwoodn >   HP Privacy Officer >   Houston, TX7 >   phone:  281.518.9564 >   fax:  281.927.4525! >   email:   dan.swartwood@hp.come > A > Dan appears to be a pretty bright guy and knows exactly what hen@ > is doing, so this is not casual ignorance.   He says that theyD > opt-out over 50 people a day, so he is not unaware of the problem.? > I hope that someone can convince them to change away from thee > dark side. > ) > Alan           Remove "REMOVE" to replyP >   ) 50 is suppost to be some real big number?v  Q If they have removed you from all their lists, then you're Ok and have no reason uO to contact them again.  However, if they don't, then I wonder what it would be  N considered if you sent them repeated messages to please remove you from their + lists.  Say, 50K or so messages each night?i  Q I really hate spammers, but rather than "get back", or "get even", I prefer "get * ahead".A   Dave   -- i4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roada Vanderbilt, PA  15486:   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:55:31 -0700j3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>n& Subject: Re: Spam from Hewlett-Packard. Message-ID: <3F974323.2040808@Flying-Disk.com>   David Froble wrote:e > Alan Frisbie wrote:n  @ >> I also noted that California law requires "ADV:" as the first? >> four characters of the subject line, but they said that theyc; >> don't have to.   Interesting, since both HP and I are inn >> California.  H > Possibly the California Attorney General would be a bit interested in G > such scofflaws?  It would at least get a bit more of their attention.r  : Indeed, I will be filing a complaint with the AG's office.@ If Dan Swartwood had assured me that HP would change their ways,= I would not bother.   But it looks like HP needs a whack with 
 a clue stick.f   > [50 opt-outs per day].+ > 50 is suppost to be some real big number?l  7 Yes, since it should be zero, and would be if they usedd confirmed opt-in.f  I > If they have removed you from all their lists, then you're Ok and have uJ > no reason to contact them again.  However, if they don't, then I wonder K > what it would be considered if you sent them repeated messages to please eC > remove you from their lists.  Say, 50K or so messages each night?   A No, I will not fight abuse in that manner.   Now, raising a stink . at the stockholders meeting is another matter.  G > I really hate spammers, but rather than "get back", or "get even", I   > prefer "get ahead".g  B Indeed.   My goal is to return e-mail to its formerly-useful stateD for all users.   Some people volunteer their time to clean up parks,C beaches, and the like.   I'm working to clean up the Internet.   IfsB it means exposing a company's dirty practices to the light of day,	 so be it.m  * Alan              Remove "REMOVE" to reply   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:48:33 -0400d* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>& Subject: Re: statistics on DEC and CPQ) Message-ID: <3F96C2F1.46B1E9B5@istop.com>e   Didier Morandi wrote:t > 2 > How many people at DEC and CPQ before the merge?* > Roughly, I would say 60,000 and 6,000... > " > And when Ken Olsen left? 90,000?  G Prior to Palmer's mass downsizing, Digital had over 120,000 employees.  J Towards the end of his massacre, it was down to about 45,000 if I rememberH correctly (or Palmer had stated intentions to shrink it to that number).   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:54:42 GMT,% From: "Bob Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com>i& Subject: Re: statistics on DEC and CPQ2 Message-ID: <C0Dlb.7626$x%4.6250@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageL# news:3F96C2F1.46B1E9B5@istop.com...0 > Didier Morandi wrote:i > >e4 > > How many people at DEC and CPQ before the merge?, > > Roughly, I would say 60,000 and 6,000... > >b$ > > And when Ken Olsen left? 90,000? >>H > Prior to Palmer's mass downsizing, Digital had over 120,000 employees.L > Towards the end of his massacre, it was down to about 45,000 if I rememberJ > correctly (or Palmer had stated intentions to shrink it to that number).  H   As I remember it the max Digital got to was over 128,000 or so and wasF down to around 63,000 when Compaq bought us. I don't remember how manyF employees Compaq had when they purchased Digital. It was way less than2 Digital but I don't think is was less than 10,000.     \Bob Laill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:16:31 -0400a) From: "Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> + Subject: TFT5600 Console with OpenVMS Alpha 9 Message-ID: <wJzlb.2537$VQ3.333248@news20.bellglobal.com>   
 Hello all:  2 Has anyone tried this combination?  The QuickSpecs; for the ES47 indicate that this integrated keyboard/monitorn3 is available for rack-mount configurations, but thew= technical-edit guys at my distributor say that the integratedh* keyboard/monitor is unsupported on Alphas.   TIAt Scott-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:48:24 GMTi% From: "Bob Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com>c/ Subject: Re: TFT5600 Console with OpenVMS Alphad2 Message-ID: <IWClb.7625$p65.1632@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 "Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> wrote in message3 news:wJzlb.2537$VQ3.333248@news20.bellglobal.com...d > Hello all: >:4 > Has anyone tried this combination?  The QuickSpecs= > for the ES47 indicate that this integrated keyboard/monitord5 > is available for rack-mount configurations, but then? > technical-edit guys at my distributor say that the integratedy, > keyboard/monitor is unsupported on Alphas. >a > TIAy > Scottc >v >   
      Scott  L      The tech-edit guys at your distributor are incorrect. Point them to the+ Supported Options Web page for the ES47 at:l    T http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/options/ases47/ases47_All_options.html#Monitor  <     About two thirds of the way down the monitor list is the0 TFT5600.Supported on both OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX  
     \Bob Laili     --   Robert G. Lail Senior Solution Architectn Corporate Accounts Hewlett-Packard Company- Voice: 603.424.6272- Email: RobertDOTLail@hpDOTcom3 (replace the DOT with ".")   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:01:30 GMTn# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)9/ Subject: Re: TFT5600 Console with OpenVMS Alphat2 Message-ID: <uTElb.7634$cg5.5461@news.cpqcorp.net>  e In article <wJzlb.2537$VQ3.333248@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> writes:   3 :Has anyone tried this combination?  The QuickSpecso< :for the ES47 indicate that this integrated keyboard/monitor4 :is available for rack-mount configurations, but the> :technical-edit guys at my distributor say that the integrated+ :keyboard/monitor is unsupported on Alphas.M  K   If the configuration is not listed in the supported options matrix at theeJ   website, the graphics controller and the hardware platform team probablyK   didn't test this configuration.  (AFAIK, the QuickSpecs would not usually K   include the complete list of the supported options, that hardware supporteA   matrix is usually only referenced via the AlphaServer website.)e  I   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for the usual details on mixing and matching K   graphics controllers and (CRT and LCD and even plasma display) monitors,  G   including how to check for compatibility, what to watch out for, whatmJ   not to do, etc.   (It's usually pretty easy to check for compatibility.)  H   That said, if you are using OpenVMS, you'll probably want the LK463 orG   other OpenVMS keyboard, simply because the PC layout is somewhat moreiG   difficult to use.  (Details on various of the LK-series keyboards andtF   compatibility are also included in the OpenVMS FAQ.)  The rack-mountI   keyboard is likely going to use one of the typical PC keyboard layouts,bH   which -- within the limits discussed in the FAQ -- will generally workI   fine with OpenVMS, save for the typical user-level confusion around theh?   particulars of the function keypad keys and other such keys.)h  G   Here are the two most obvious (relevent) sections of the OpenVMS FAQ:s  > 14.20  Can I reuse old keyboards, mice and monitors with a PC?@ 14.21  Which video monitor works with which graphics controller?  I   If there is confusion after reading these sections, please let me know.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqtN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:14:32 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>oA Subject: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloriag. Message-ID: <3F970148.8040804@Flying-Disk.com>  9 I just (sort of) resolved a nagging video problem with myr1 AlphaStation 200, and have a couple of questions.s  7 It came with a PBXGA-BA/BN (ZLXp-E2) video card.   If I 5 used an absolutely top-quality (e.g. expensive) videou< cable, I got an acceptable 1280x1024 display on my ViewSonic0 PS790 monitor, going through the BNC connectors.  6 If, however, I used a lesser-quality cable or tried to7 route it through my Raritan MX48 KVM switch, I saw lotsi6 of video "ringing".   That is, every vertical line had7 "echos" or "ghosts" to the right of it.   I did not see3  this on any of my other systems.  9 Since I did not see this problem on another Alpha with anV8 ATI video card, I tried switching to an ATI Mach64 video4 card and the problem went away completely!   Just to9 complete the test, I also tried an Elsa Gloria Synergy IIp5 card and it also worked perfectly.   No ringing, even.3 with a cheap cable or going through the KVM switch.S  8 What is it about the PBXGA/ZLXp-E2 card that causes this6 ringing, that is not present with the other two cards?  4 On a related note, what video cards will work in the7 AlphaStation 200?   I have heard that some of the latere8 ones will not work with the EV4 CPUs.   A matrix showing< cards, systems, and relative performance would be wonderful. Does such a thing exist?   Thanks,o4 Alan           Remove "REMOVE" from address to reply   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:20:29 GMTh# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) E Subject: Re: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloriai2 Message-ID: <x1Glb.7638$cg5.7601@news.cpqcorp.net>  d In article <3F970148.8040804@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:5 :On a related note, what video cards will work in thei8 :AlphaStation 200?   I have heard that some of the later9 :ones will not work with the EV4 CPUs.   A matrix showingd= :cards, systems, and relative performance would be wonderful.  :Does such a thing exist?h  G   The PBXGB-AA PowerStorm 3D30 (TGA2) is probably the nicest controller G   with formal support, IIRC.  Even if the PowerStorm 3D30 is supported,-?   it is probably overkill for this AlphaStation 200 series box."     For hardware support details:e  *     http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/  I     http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/workstations/retired/index.htmlK  G   The AlphaStation 200 box is sufficiently old and slow that I'm not at I   all certain the graphics board would be my first target for an upgrade.oI   Y'all are simply not going to get performance from an ancient EV4-basedv4   system, no matter the graphics controller chosen.   J   The 3DLabs Oxygen VX1 device drivers will not function with an EV4-classD   Alpha microprocessor, such as that found on your AlphaStation 200.  F   The PowerStorm 3D10T ELSA GLoria Synergy is probably the newest cardC   that has a shot of working, though I do not know if that would bel$   supported in this configuration.    H   Various of the older AlphaStation systems either lacked the byte-word G   instructions (systems prior to EV56) or the platform-specific PCI busoE   I/O addressing that can be required by more recent device drivers; fG   adding support for newer graphics onto older systems is not somethingh   that is normally expected.  J   Have you tried other resolutions with the TGA (ZLXp-E2) card, on the offK   chance the problem is a disagreement between the monitor and the graphicscF   controller and (when present) the KVM?  The switch settings for the G   ZLXp-E* series controllers are posted at Ask The Wizard topic (6965). I   This would certainly not be the first time that a controller, a KVM andtI   a monitor had signal integrity problems.  Try a less aggressive settingt   as a test, obviously.h  G   The OpenVMS FAQ has an introduction to matching up video display and e   controller settings, as well.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqoN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:42:08 -0700i3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>eE Subject: Re: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloriao. Message-ID: <3F974000.3000305@Flying-Disk.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:.  I >   The AlphaStation 200 box is sufficiently old and slow that I'm not atrK >   all certain the graphics board would be my first target for an upgrade.tK >   Y'all are simply not going to get performance from an ancient EV4-basedn6 >   system, no matter the graphics controller chosen.   ? I agree.   I simply wanted to get rid of the blasted "ringing".e2 Since I had the other cards on hand, I tried them.  = I would like to upgrade to a higher-performance system like arA DS10 or XP1000, but David Turner keeps buying them up and keeping . the price high.   :-)    (Just kidding, David)A And yes, I will buy the HP version of the video card for whatever5@ new system I get.   I want to keep those VMS engineers employed.  L >   The 3DLabs Oxygen VX1 device drivers will not function with an EV4-classF >   Alpha microprocessor, such as that found on your AlphaStation 200.  / As I suspected.    Thanks for the confirmation.h  H >   The PowerStorm 3D10T ELSA GLoria Synergy is probably the newest cardE >   that has a shot of working, though I do not know if that would beC& >   supported in this configuration.    > Supported or not, it has been working nicely all afternoon and? I am very happy with it.   If it fails to work at some point, Ie+ will just fall back to the ATI Mach64 card.s  A I did determine that the ATI Rage XL will *NOT* work, at least inr my configuration.h  L >   Have you tried other resolutions with the TGA (ZLXp-E2) card, on the offM >   chance the problem is a disagreement between the monitor and the graphics-H >   controller and (when present) the KVM?  The switch settings for the I >   ZLXp-E* series controllers are posted at Ask The Wizard topic (6965).0K >   This would certainly not be the first time that a controller, a KVM and K >   a monitor had signal integrity problems.  Try a less aggressive setting  >   as a test, obviously.n  < Thank you for an excellent suggestion.   I was running it atA switch setting 13, which is the most agressive 1280x1024 setting:o@ 135 MHz pixel clock, 75 Hz vertical rate.   The next time I haveH a reason to power-down I will put it back in and try the other settings.B This might explain why one user e-mailed me to say that he was not4 having any ringing problems with long, cheap cables.  > Thanks for the excellent information.   I'm looking forward to1 seeing you again at the VMS symposium next month.t  ) Alan             Remove "REMOVE" to reply/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 03:50:52 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)yE Subject: Re: Video "ringing" with PBXGA but not Mach64 or Elsa Gloriai2 Message-ID: <weIlb.7645$fo5.1215@news.cpqcorp.net>  d In article <3F974000.3000305@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes: ..> :I would like to upgrade to a higher-performance system like a :DS10 or XP1000...  E   As OpenVMS I64 releases continue to roll out, remember that anothernD   hardware upgrade option that is becoming more readily available toG   OpenVMS users includes new or used members of the HP Integrity seriesLG   systems.  (Look at the web prices for various of the Integrity boxes,    for example.)m  I :>   The PowerStorm 3D10T ELSA GLoria Synergy is probably the newest card F :>   that has a shot of working, though I do not know if that would be' :>   supported in this configuration.  t :l? :Supported or not, it has been working nicely all afternoon ande :I am very happy with it.     B   The PowerStorm 3D10T is a comparatively slow controller.  (WhichC   might well suit your AlphaStation 200 box, but I digress. :-)  OnnC   various of the faster AlphaStation series systems, the relatively C   limited performance of the PowerStorm 3D10T can be disconcerting.   A   The PowerStorm 3D30 (and PowerStorm 4D20) offer *very* fast 2D, @   and I would almost always choose a PowerStorm 3D30 controller A   over a PowerStorm 3D10T -- and I'd probably also choose it over06   many other 2D graphics controllers, for that matter.   ..B :I did determine that the ATI Rage XL will *NOT* work, at least in :my configuration.  B   The drivers for the ATI Radeon 7500 graphics controller are not B   expected to operate within this AlphaStation 200 series or other@   similar-vintage configurations.  The microprocessor is too far:   back, and the I/O bus interface requires byte-swizzling.  A   The cut-off for new graphic controller support is generally EV6 A   and later, though a few and very specific EV56 boxes might also @   be supported.  The key here is byte-word addressing within theB   Alpha microprocessor and a non-swizzled I/O space bus interface.B   (If your driver's call into IOC$NODE_FUNCTION returns a zero forB   the swizzle shift count, you're good to go.  If the call returnsA   non-zero, you can make calls to IOC$READ_IO and IOC$WRITE_IO --gA   which handle swizzled and non-swizzled references for you -- or C   you are soon to learn about swizzling...  Various of the graphicshC   device drivers have substantial knowledge of I/O space and of thelC   processor and can and do go directly at the I/O device.)  Whoops,TC   that's probably _way_ more detail than you cared to know about...i      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqoN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:37:22 -0400n& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>2 Subject: Re: We buy Alpha  - URGENT - DS10 systems/ Message-ID: <vpdg7cad8rrg46@news.supernews.com>a   Geez I known  D But I am buying not selling, so hopefully people won't mind too much  3 Sorry Everyone - (Slapping himself on the keyboard)T   DT    / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in messageh. news:3f96a147$0$10434$626a54ce@news.free.fr...0 > Hey Dave, you are slowly moving to SPAMland... >  > D. >s > Island wrote: ( > > We are in need of Alpha DS10 Systems > >nF > > Swapping or paying top dollar for these (with or without licenses) > >h > > We swap as follows:  > >o > > K > > You provide 1 x DS10 (any speed), we provide 2 x DS10L 617 EV67 with noi > > memory or CDROMV. > > The DS10 must have CDROM and Floppy cages. > >d > > Or > >i > > You providet > >w7 > > 3 x DS10 and we can swap for an ES40 Model 1 Systemt0 > > (2 x DS10 memory kits = 1 x ES40 memory kit) > > System includes: > > 500Mhz CPU > > CDROM Floppy > > Dual Serialo > > USB- > > Rackmount or Pedestal Kita > >h > > Call fax or email us >-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:03:24 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>2 Subject: Re: We buy Alpha  - URGENT - DS10 systems0 Message-ID: <3F96CBF7.91A70BE9@blueyonder.co.uk>  
 Island wrote:b > 
 > Geez I know  > F > But I am buying not selling, so hopefully people won't mind too much > 5 > Sorry Everyone - (Slapping himself on the keyboard)1 >  > DT  J If the systems are to deploy or expand existing VMS solutions then this is good news for all VMS users.      b   -- 7 tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:03:30 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r2 Subject: Re: We buy Alpha  - URGENT - DS10 systems' Message-ID: <3F9736F2.64596355@fsi.net>n   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Island wrote:7 > >s > > Geez I knows > >tH > > But I am buying not selling, so hopefully people won't mind too much > >c7 > > Sorry Everyone - (Slapping himself on the keyboard)t > >s > > DT > L > If the systems are to deploy or expand existing VMS solutions then this is > good news for all VMS users.  F Then again, sometimes the glass *IS* half-empty. I can't help thinkingD that if a reseller has to go begging on the open market for product,? vendor support may be, well, let's not get TOO negative here...3   -- - David J. Dachtera@ dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:45:18 -0400>* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>! Subject: Re: What is ACME_SERVER?t) Message-ID: <3F96C22E.A37B56D1@istop.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:A >    In the meantime HP is working on 8.2 for VAXen, which is thea& >    opposite of stopping development.  K Correct on paper. However, what percentage of new features are making it toe VAX ?D  F isn't the "VAX development" more and more restrictted to just ensuring interoperability ?  I In fairness though, VMS has been much better than Apple at supporting itsh older platform.s   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.587 ************************