1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 24 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 590       Contents: Carly (tm) speaks  COM is retired!? Re: COM is retired!?, Re: CSWS v1.3 + Kerberos for HP OpenVMS v2.0/ RE: DHCP serving more than one subnet (longish) $ Dynamically expand a Files-11 volume( Re: Dynamically expand a Files-11 volume Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!! P Re: HP announces new AlphaServer systems and enhancements to Tru64 UNIX and Open) IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266? - Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266? - Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266? - Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266? - Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266? - Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266? - Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266? ? Next VAX/VMS 2  Itanium Letter issue 2 come, pls send any stuff  OpenOffice for VMS?  Re: OpenOffice for VMS?  Re: OpenOffice for VMS?  OpenVMS Freeware V6.0 Contents2 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500: Position Available: Short term project in Jacksonville Fl. Positive VMS news !! Re: Positive VMS news !! Re: Spam from Hewlett-Packard  Re: Spam from Hewlett-Packard  Time server protocole? Re: Time server protocole? Re: Time server protocole? Re: Time server protocole? Re: Time server protocole? Re: Time server protocole? Re: Time server protocole? Re: Time server protocole? Re: Time server protocole?D Re: Tru64 unix Layeredproducts won't install on my OpenVMS machines!D RE: Tru64 unix Layeredproducts won't install on my OpenVMS machines!D Re: Tru64 unix Layeredproducts won't install on my OpenVMS machines!. VAXscan now available on OpenVMS Alpha systems2 RE: VAXscan now available on OpenVMS Alpha systems Re: VMS Text Files --> Unix  Re: VMS Text Files --> Unix  Re: VMS Text Files --> Unix  RE: VMS Text Files --> Unix  Re: VMS Text Files --> Unix * [survey] why do you still use VAX systems?. RE: [survey] why do you still use VAX systems?. Re: [survey] why do you still use VAX systems?. Re: [survey] why do you still use VAX systems?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:26:18 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Carly (tm) speaksJ Message-ID: <uwbmb.23937$3f.10999@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  0 Fiorina clarifies 'Adaptive Enterprise' strategy  H At Gartner's Symposium, Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina tries to clearG up the confusion over her company's new "Adaptive Enterprise" computing 8 strategy and explains how it fits into the IT landscape.9 http://ct.com.com/click?q=eb-HlYoQkDlzXDy_PyzeafBiFIM9AvH   " Needs Windows Media or Real Player   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:40:14 +0200 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: COM is retired!? : Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONEEKFCEAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  J there is a notice on the last CAMPUS distribution , that COM on OpenVMS is retired. Does anybody know why?    TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:48:13 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: COM is retired!? 0 Message-ID: <bnasfn$fg423@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>   Rudolf Wingert schrieb:    > Hello, > L > there is a notice on the last CAMPUS distribution , that COM on OpenVMS is! > retired. Does anybody know why?  >   > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert > R See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/dcom/index.html, there is some textC about legal stuff and replacing V1.3 with T1.4 as soon as possible.    --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regards     Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de - mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:22:25 GMT , From: Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@hp.com>5 Subject: Re: CSWS v1.3 + Kerberos for HP OpenVMS v2.0 & Message-ID: <3F9951C0.76B99129@hp.com>  * "j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818" wrote: > E > Is there a mod_auth_kerb available that is already debugged to work 3 > with CSWS v1.3 AND the new Kerberos for VMS v2.0?  > C > My goal is to provide users with BASIC AUTHENTICATION that drives G > against a Kerberos KDC on another system (an IBM AIX system elsewhere  > on campus, I believe). > O > I have too many local AUTH_* modules for CSWS that have to be rewritten right 2 > now to consider switching to CSWS v2.x just yet. > O > And right now, I'm on OpenVMS v7.2-1H1, which may prevent me from bringing up L > Kerberos v2.0 also.  In that case, is there an earlier version of Kerberos4 > for OpenVMS that runs on that earlier VMS release?  L The current mod_auth_kerb only runs with CSWS V2.0.  It would be possible toO build one for V1.3, but it looks like there may be other reasons why that's not  feasible in your case.  O If you're running OpenVMS V7.2-1H1, then Kerberos V2.0 isn't supported (and the O kit won't install) on that version of OpenVMS.  V7.2-2 is the minimum supported O version for Kerberos V2.0.  There is an earlier version of Kerberos (V1.0), but I we don't recommend that you run that version due to several CERT security H advisories for Kerberos that were fixed in V2.0.  It's also a much older2 version of MIT Kerberos (1.0.5 vs. 1.2.6 in V2.0).  I It looks like your best bet would be to upgrade OpenVMS and CSWS, but you I indicate that it's not feasible for you do upgrade CSWS right now.  Is is K possible to upgrade OpenVMS?  If so, we might be able to build a version of O mod_auth_kerb for CSWS 1.3 that would work with Kerberos V2.0 on OpenVMS V7.2-2 O or higher.  If not, contact me via Email and we'll see if we can work something  out.   	Wayne Morrison  	Project Leader, 	Kerberos & CDSA 	OpenVMS Security Group  	Wayne.Morrison@hp.com   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Oct 2003 16:01:08 GMT6 From: DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis)8 Subject: RE: DHCP serving more than one subnet (longish)9 Message-ID: <bnbic4$4s$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   @ 	I probably should have including our routing information when I* described our DHCP server's configuration:  3 Type  Destination                           Gateway   7 AN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.0.1 5 AH    127.0.0.1                             127.0.0.1 7 AN    192.168.0.0/22                        192.168.0.5 7 AH    192.168.0.5                           192.168.0.5 7 AN    192.168.4.0/24                        192.168.4.5 7 AH    192.168.4.5                           192.168.4.5   G The 0.0.0.0 is our "default" route to the Internet.  Recall that WE0 is C our server's physical intrface, bound to 192.168.0.5, and WEA1 is a ' pseudo-interface, bound to 192.168.4.5.   D 	The response from John E. Malmberg brought up an interesting point.I The above routes don't seem to provide for a direct route for the pseudo- I interface (WEA1, bound to 192.168.4.5) to get to the Internet.  Might the K functionality we're looking for be obtained by running two DHCP servers (on : separate machines), each configured for a specific subnet?   Thanks,  Mike --K              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSE N   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingJ            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityJ http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:27:34 +0200 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>- Subject: Dynamically expand a Files-11 volume : Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONMEKECEAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Keith Parris wrotes:   >>> M or having the DCL commands and other support to dynamically expand a Files-11  volume on-the-fly. >>>    Where can I find this?   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert  P P.S. There a RAID sysstem, with can dynamically expand the volume size. In cas e of this the dynamically # expanding of FILES-11 is importent.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:35:00 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>1 Subject: Re: Dynamically expand a Files-11 volume 0 Message-ID: <bnarmu$fg422@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>   Rudolf Wingert schrieb:  > Hello, >  > Keith Parris wrotes: >  > O > or having the DCL commands and other support to dynamically expand a Files-11  > volume on-the-fly. >  >  > Where can I find this? >   > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert > R > P.S. There a RAID sysstem, with can dynamically expand the volume size. In cas e > of this the dynamically % > expanding of FILES-11 is importent.  > ` See the VMS V7.3-2 announcements (OpenVMS homepage) and check for 'dynamic volume expansion' and 'dissiimlar device shadowing'.   --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regards     Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de - mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:06:05 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!2 Message-ID: <bnaj41$406$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Keith Parris wrote: Z > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<bn95r9$b07$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>... > O >>They told us that about two weeks ago it was decided NOT to produce the EV79. D >>The reason they gave us is that "IBM can not produce the chip" !?! >  > D > HP has acted in good faith on what was laid out in the Roadmaps itF > inherited from Compaq.  EV7 chip development was continued, the chipG > was completed, and great systems using that chip developed, which are F > available today. The OpenVMS port to Itanium has continued and is onG > schedule. Some things the Roadmaps originally excluded have even been F > added to the Roadmaps based on customer requests, like the new DS15.  M And if I can believe the HP reps, it is a bestseller. Which only proofs that  B there is a demand for small rackmounted or tabletop Alpha systems.  
 <snip>.......    > E > Q:  What is the status update to the AlphaServer roadmap in 2004?    > C > A:  In mid-2004, HP plans to release, as scheduled, a performance E > boost to the EV7 Alpha processor.  We originally planned to deliver H > this performance boost via a new chip, which we have been referring toA > as EV79.  As the project progressed, it became clear in working F > closely with our CPU chip supplier that the EV79 chip would not meet5 > our expectations for performance or time to market.   N I really can't make any sense from official statements like these. It is just M like the statements that were made on the EV8. What this implies is that the  Q Alpha designers are incompetent ! After all they make the design and predict the  Q performance. And here we have a official statement from Rich Marcello telling us  3 implicitely that the Alpha designers can't deliver.   P At the same time HP boasts itself saying that the Alpha engineers will make the L next generation Itanium fly, and that Intel really needed the knowledge and C skills of those engineers otherwise the Itanium would have flunked.   Q So if Rich Marcello's statement is the truth, then we have to fear that the next  O generation Itanium will be a big flop. After all the same idiots that designed  M the non-performing EV79 and EV8 are now working on the Itanium and will most  $ likely spoil that beautifull design.  " Or am I missing something Keith ??   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2003 09:48:21 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) $ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <Cih6PZOcS0Yu@sinead>   3 In article <bnaj41$406$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,    Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: [...] O > And if I can believe the HP reps, it is a bestseller. Which only proofs that  D > there is a demand for small rackmounted or tabletop Alpha systems.  2 Yes, such a beast may be called a workstation ...    Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 04:52:05 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!) Message-ID: <3F98E80D.DBB83A67@istop.com>    Dirk Munk wrote:R > So if Rich Marcello's statement is the truth, then we have to fear that the nextP > generation Itanium will be a big flop. After all the same idiots that designedN > the non-performing EV79 and EV8 are now working on the Itanium and will most& > likely spoil that beautifull design.  N 1- Rich Marcello is now just a spokesperson for Scott Stallard and Carly.  HisK job depends on his obediance to his masters. He cannot be seen to side with G customers, he must be seen to side with his bosses even if his personal  convictions don't.  K 2- Intel has infinite resources, and the few thousand IA64 sold represent a L huge volume which justifies massive developments efforts. Alpha doesn't haveJ those huge volumes and thus HP cannot justify spending money on additionalL work for Alpha. (if you didn't see a cynical tone in the above, note that it" was meant in a very cynical mode).  M One thing I find interesting though: with EV7 work having been completed over M a year ago, what have the few remaining Alpha engineers been doing since then 4 ? How much of the EV79 work has been done  already ?  H My guess is that HP is disapointed in finding out that its customers areI absolutely not interested in IA64. As a result, they will take additional L steps, such as slowing EV7 and cancelling EV79 to put additional pressure to force customers to IA64.    L Another example if HP acting in the interests of Intel and Microsoft instead8 of acting in the interest of customers and shareholders.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:10:32 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> $ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!0 Message-ID: <bnaqa8$93j$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dirk Munk wrote: > Michael Moroney wrote: > / >> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  >> >> >>: >>> "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message# >>> news:3F982773.20401@MMaz.com...  >>>  >>>> Dirk Munk wrote:  >>>> >>>>8 >>>>> Take a deep breath Bill, and 10 tablets of Valium. >>>>> I >>>>> Today we had some HP reps visiting us to teel us about Alpha, Tru64 L >>>>> Linux etc. They told us that about two weeks ago it was decided NOT to >>>>> produce the EV79. H >>>>> The reason they gave us is that "IBM can not produce the chip" !?! >> >> >>G >> The supposed reason is that EV79 would have been only a few % faster I >> than the EV7z (whatever that is), and is not worth it for such a small 
 >> increment.  >  > D > I don't get this. The EV79 was suppose to be a EV7 build with new J > manufacturing technology, meaning a smaller die etc. Normally a smaller K > die means higher clock speeds and thus more performance. Not so with the   > EV79? Why not? > K > These Alpha engineers must be so stupid and clumsy that you can only use  6 > them for very unimportant projects like the Itanium. >   > A lot of the Alpha engineers no longer work on Alpha at Intel,= some work for Sun in our Burlington development facility some 
 work for AMD.   D It would be interesting to see how many of the origional transferees still work for Intel.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:02:08 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!2 Message-ID: <uKqdnQIBwuo0mwSiRVn-vQ@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0310231848.56b59a1b@posting.google.com... + > Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message . news:<bn95r9$b07$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...K > > They told us that about two weeks ago it was decided NOT to produce the  EV79. F > > The reason they gave us is that "IBM can not produce the chip" !?! > D > HP has acted in good faith on what was laid out in the Roadmaps it > inherited from Compaq.   Bull . Fucking.  Shit.  J The promises that HP (rather than Compaq before it) broke started with EV7H itself.  In January, 2002, while well into testing (7 months after firstL silicon, and 6 months after VMS had booted on it successfully) EV7 was stillH scheduled to ship in Q3, 2002.  Unfortunately, that would have tended toF overshadow the less-than-overwhelming debut of Itanic2, so - with zero2 explanation - EV7 was delayed until January, 2003.  J And when it finally *did* appear, guess what?  It shipped at only 1.15 GHzE (and 1 GHz, for the slower version), rather than the 1.25 GHz target. K Again, no explanation - though since HP is now stating that it can actually I run at 1.3 GHz, the explanation seems rather obvious:  it would have made 2 Itanic2 look even more feeble than it already did.  K Though in December, 2002, EV79 was still scheduled to ship a year after EV7 I (i.e., January, 2004), the next month it was announced not only that EV79 H would not ship until *late* 2004, but that it would run at only 1.45 GHzK (vs. the previous 1.7 GHz target) and contain only 1.75 MB of on-chip cache K (vs. the previous 3 MB target).  While the clock rate limitation was itself K ludicrous, given that the process shrink should *easily* have supported 1.7 L GHz (after all, IBM's own products in that same process run at 1.7 - 1.8 GHzJ *today*), the reduction in cache size has not even that flimsy excuse:  itG was simply a deliberate change to the previously-planned (and promised)  roadmap.  J And now they're trying to use the artificially-hobbled performance of EV79K to justify axing it entirely and substituting a 'performance boost' that in G fact simply clocks EV7 where it should have been clocked right from the I start.  Kind of makes one suspect that all this might have been planned a L year or so ago - it does have the same slimey Shane feel to it that a lot of the Alphacide weaseling did.  L The people you work for are scum, Keith:  they lie without shame or apology.L If you choose to associate yourself with their lies and spin, that makes you
 scum as well.    ...   C > Q:  What is the status update to the AlphaServer roadmap in 2004?  > C > A:  In mid-2004, HP plans to release, as scheduled, a performance : > boost to the EV7 Alpha processor.  We originally planned  B The appropriate word is 'promised', not 'planned', Keith:  HP veryH specifically promised to *adhere to* the plan of record for Alpha, whichI very specifically provided for an enhanced, 130 nm., SOI product in 2004, I not a 'performance boost' in the *existing* EV7 product that only brought 9 its clock rate up to what it should have been originally.   H Scum, Keith.  Are you with them, or do you have at least enough personal3 integrity to refrain from supporting them actively?    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:15:39 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!2 Message-ID: <juGdneMuspRJlASiRVn-hg@metrocast.net>  D "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message" news:bn9g1u$s07$1@pcls4.std.com.... > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >  > 9 > >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message " > >news:3F982773.20401@MMaz.com... > >> Dirk Munk wrote:  > >>9 > >> > Take a deep breath Bill, and 10 tablets of Valium.  > >> >J > >> > Today we had some HP reps visiting us to teel us about Alpha, Tru64J > >> > Linux etc. They told us that about two weeks ago it was decided NOT to > >> > produce the EV79.I > >> > The reason they gave us is that "IBM can not produce the chip" !?!  > F > The supposed reason is that EV79 would have been only a few % fasterH > than the EV7z (whatever that is), and is not worth it for such a small > increment.  L Kind of reminds one of the Death of 1000 Cuts.  First, slip EV7's schedule aL bit and hobble its clock rate.  Then, slip EV79 as well and announce that itJ won't have as much cache or clock as fast as was promised (even though theJ SOI process should allow it to clock *faster* than a normal process-shrinkG would).  Finally, now that EV79 has been emasculated and EV7 held back, F announce that a faster EV7 (brought up to the speed it could have been7 running at right along) will do the job just as well...    > J > >It's just the "Alpha development was too expensive" and "Alpha couldn't haveK > >kept ahead of Itanic" and "EV8 was going to take a 1 GHz performance hit  due H > >to SMT" and "the Alpha *engineers* told us this" crap all over again: > E > Ummm, EV8 was dead and buried even before HP came into the picture.   K You appear to need a history lesson (not that it really makes a difference: L most of the liars who were active in defending the Alphacide are still right
 there at HP).   G Carly & Curly started exploring possibilities in early 2000.  They were 4 actively planning the merger well before June, 2001.  F > As to performance, haven't the INTC chips passed Alpha a while back?  G Well, when you fall a full process generation behind because your owner I isn't interested in actively competing, it does take something of a toll. H But even stuck in 180 nm. Alpha has managed to make Madison look kind ofJ mediocre in several respects (that's likely why EV79 seems to be more of aD threat than HP cares to deal with - since Itanic won't get much more. performance before Montecito appears in 2005).  ( > ("1 gigahertz? That's so Windows 98!")  K Perhaps you didn't understand what I said.  Or perhaps you're just a troll.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:07:35 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>$ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!9 Message-ID: <bnb4vt$vj246$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   ' On 2003-10-24 09:06, "Dirk Munk" wrote:    > Keith Parris wrote:  >>   >> [...] >>  F >> Q:  What is the status update to the AlphaServer roadmap in 2004?   >>  D >> A:  In mid-2004, HP plans to release, as scheduled, a performanceF >> boost to the EV7 Alpha processor.  We originally planned to deliverI >> this performance boost via a new chip, which we have been referring to B >> as EV79.  As the project progressed, it became clear in workingG >> closely with our CPU chip supplier that the EV79 chip would not meet 6 >> our expectations for performance or time to market. > P > I really can't make any sense from official statements like these. It is just O > like the statements that were made on the EV8. What this implies is that the  S > Alpha designers are incompetent ! After all they make the design and predict the  S > performance. And here we have a official statement from Rich Marcello telling us  5 > implicitely that the Alpha designers can't deliver.  > R > At the same time HP boasts itself saying that the Alpha engineers will make the N > next generation Itanium fly, and that Intel really needed the knowledge and E > skills of those engineers otherwise the Itanium would have flunked.  > S > So if Rich Marcello's statement is the truth, then we have to fear that the next  Q > generation Itanium will be a big flop. After all the same idiots that designed  O > the non-performing EV79 and EV8 are now working on the Itanium and will most  & > likely spoil that beautifull design. > $ > Or am I missing something Keith ??  ? I would expect that *engineers* are *not* *allowed* to make any G *official* statement -- and there might be differences in what "project J leaders" are told from the engineers and what they tell to the management.   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:12:45 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>$ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!9 Message-ID: <bnb4vv$vj246$2@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   & On 2003-10-24 10:52, "JF Mezei" wrote:   > [...]  > J > My guess is that HP is disapointed in finding out that its customers areK > absolutely not interested in IA64. As a result, they will take additional N > steps, such as slowing EV7 and cancelling EV79 to put additional pressure to > force customers to IA64.    C They might force "customers" into a direction that wasn't intended, ' i.e., becoming "previous customers" ...   N > Another example if HP acting in the interests of Intel and Microsoft instead: > of acting in the interest of customers and shareholders.   Agreed.    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:11:01 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> $ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!0 Message-ID: <bnb4sm$cv7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:- > "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message . > news:bn96k9$acl$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... >  >>Dirk Munk wrote: >>5 >>>Take a deep breath Bill, and 10 tablets of Valium.  >  > N > No need:  The Inquirer broke the story a few days ago - and it really didn'tN > come as a great surprise, given how much HP had gutted EV79 already (so muchJ > for its repeated promises to stick with its 'plan of record', but we all- > know what a promise from cHumPaq is worth).  >  > F >>>Today we had some HP reps visiting us to teel us about Alpha, Tru64I >>>Linux etc. They told us that about two weeks ago it was decided NOT to  >>>produce the EV79.E >>>The reason they gave us is that "IBM can not produce the chip" !?!  >>> H >>>Most likely the Sahara is covered in 10 feet of snow and ice, so thatD >>>IBM can't  dig enough sand to produce the silicon for the wafers. >  > K > Indeed.  IBM is having so much difficulty with SOI that AMD has partnered J > with it to advance this technology.  Just because it's producing POWER4+J > cores that use half the power of Itanics while clocking faster shouldn'tL > fool anyone into believing that they have a clue about what they're doing.  B IBM have apparently had problems of an unspecified nature at their> East Fishkill foundry which their most modern facility and one' of the first 90nm facilities worldwide.   K http://www.techvalleytimes.homestead.com/September-IBMFishkillStrategy.html   A That said its currently producing 970 Aka G5 processors for Apple A and in all probability any problems they may be having are likely ? to be short term rather than long term and not likely it impact  EV79.   @ They are also being sued by workers from the plant over alledged6 exposure to solvents causing cancer and birth defects.  B Whether any of this could have caused HP to cancel EV79 is anyones guess.   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:30:37 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> $ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!J Message-ID: <hIamb.23064$3f.12315@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Bill Todd wrote:@ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0310231848.56b59a1b@posting.google.com... , >> Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message0 > news:<bn95r9$b07$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...G >>> They told us that about two weeks ago it was decided NOT to produce F >>> the EV79. The reason they gave us is that "IBM can not produce the
 >>> chip" !?!  >>E >> HP has acted in good faith on what was laid out in the Roadmaps it  >> inherited from Compaq.  >  > Bull . Fucking.  Shit. > C > The promises that HP (rather than Compaq before it) broke started G > with EV7 itself.  In January, 2002, while well into testing (7 months > > after first silicon, and 6 months after VMS had booted on it< > successfully) EV7 was still scheduled to ship in Q3, 2002.9 > Unfortunately, that would have tended to overshadow the G > less-than-overwhelming debut of Itanic2, so - with zero explanation - & > EV7 was delayed until January, 2003. > C > And when it finally *did* appear, guess what?  It shipped at only D > 1.15 GHz (and 1 GHz, for the slower version), rather than the 1.25D > GHz target. Again, no explanation - though since HP is now statingC > that it can actually run at 1.3 GHz, the explanation seems rather D > obvious:  it would have made Itanic2 look even more feeble than it > already did. > C > Though in December, 2002, EV79 was still scheduled to ship a year F > after EV7 (i.e., January, 2004), the next month it was announced notD > only that EV79 would not ship until *late* 2004, but that it wouldD > run at only 1.45 GHz (vs. the previous 1.7 GHz target) and containF > only 1.75 MB of on-chip cache (vs. the previous 3 MB target).  While@ > the clock rate limitation was itself ludicrous, given that theC > process shrink should *easily* have supported 1.7 GHz (after all, > > IBM's own products in that same process run at 1.7 - 1.8 GHz@ > *today*), the reduction in cache size has not even that flimsyF > excuse:  it was simply a deliberate change to the previously-planned > (and promised) roadmap.  > G > And now they're trying to use the artificially-hobbled performance of C > EV79 to justify axing it entirely and substituting a 'performance A > boost' that in fact simply clocks EV7 where it should have been C > clocked right from the start.  Kind of makes one suspect that all G > this might have been planned a year or so ago - it does have the same D > slimey Shane feel to it that a lot of the Alphacide weaseling did. > E > The people you work for are scum, Keith:  they lie without shame or B > apology. If you choose to associate yourself with their lies and$ > spin, that makes you scum as well. >  > ...  > D >> Q:  What is the status update to the AlphaServer roadmap in 2004? >>D >> A:  In mid-2004, HP plans to release, as scheduled, a performance; >> boost to the EV7 Alpha processor.  We originally planned  > D > The appropriate word is 'promised', not 'planned', Keith:  HP veryD > specifically promised to *adhere to* the plan of record for Alpha,@ > which very specifically provided for an enhanced, 130 nm., SOIB > product in 2004, not a 'performance boost' in the *existing* EV7D > product that only brought its clock rate up to what it should have > been originally.     Bill,   H Reading between the lines of your last paragraph......are you suggestingF that Alpha customers who bought systems since the 'plan of record' wasF announced and based on the 'plan of record' promises band together and1 launch a class action breach-of-contract lawsuit?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:27:01 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!2 Message-ID: <JY6dnbtdFOVSzwSiRVn-tw@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:hIamb.23064$3f.12315@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > Bill Todd wrote:B > > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message; > > news:cf15391e.0310231848.56b59a1b@posting.google.com...a   ...l  F > >> Q:  What is the status update to the AlphaServer roadmap in 2004? > >>F > >> A:  In mid-2004, HP plans to release, as scheduled, a performance= > >> boost to the EV7 Alpha processor.  We originally plannedC > >EF > > The appropriate word is 'promised', not 'planned', Keith:  HP veryF > > specifically promised to *adhere to* the plan of record for Alpha,B > > which very specifically provided for an enhanced, 130 nm., SOID > > product in 2004, not a 'performance boost' in the *existing* EV7F > > product that only brought its clock rate up to what it should have > > been originally. >2 >  > Bill,  >kJ > Reading between the lines of your last paragraph......are you suggestingH > that Alpha customers who bought systems since the 'plan of record' wasH > announced and based on the 'plan of record' promises band together and3 > launch a class action breach-of-contract lawsuit?f  J I'm not all that much more fond of lawyers than I am of cHumPaq managementE (which says a lot), nor at all familiar with the ins and outs of suchlK proceedings.  But if those who *do* understand them feel that HP's behavior0H is actionable, I'll be more than happy to stand alongside them and cheerL (and be of any help I can in digging up specific statements reassuring AlphaG customers that they would carry through on the existing Compaq 'plan of I record' - though anyone proficient with Google could likely do the same).o  E But given that these transgressions pale in magnitude (even if not inAF brazenness) beside the Alphacide itself (and the 'commitment to Alpha'L public Web letter that remained posted until well after everything in it hadJ been exposed as a sham - though more evidence of exactly how early Alpha'sK demise had been plotted did surface after that point as well), I'm not sureiL why a class action suit would be any more appropriate now than it would have: been 2+ years ago (unless it's a 'last straw' phenomenon).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:28:12 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: HP announces new AlphaServer systems and enhancements to Tru64 UNIX and Opene2 Message-ID: <ZcWdnWT-euZbkQSiRVn-hQ@metrocast.net>  3 "Rick Jones" <foo@bar.baz.invalid> wrote in message>, news:jTXlb.7722$8i6.5146@news.cpqcorp.net...+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:UK > >> It would have been good for you to say what you meant by "today" as itl9 > >> could mean published, or it could mean shipping etc.y >mH > > While I was aware of the new (not yet released) Intel V8 result whenG > > I wrote the sentence, I didn't feel that it materially affected the0H > > observation I made, for the reasons noted.  The HP-UX compiler's 20%D > > (or more - IIRC it was more like 30% ahead of the Intel compilerH > > back around the McKinley launch date, but only about 20% ahead of MS > > VC back then)  >l: > Which data are you using for that? I cannot find data atE > http://www.spec.org/ that holds the system constant and changes thed > compiler.   G It was near the back (IIRC a chart, with footnotes) of one of the whitey3 papers that HP released along with McKinley launch.    ...-  F > > a) it clearly stated that SPECint_rate scores were "somewhat less"H > > than linear (your factor of 3.82 above can be contrasted with a 3.96B > > scaling factor for EV7 over the same range, but I specificallyE > > referred to scaling up from *single*-processor systems, where theeB > > EV7 scaling factor to 16 processors is 15.84 and the SuperdomeH > > scaling factor is 14.97 - noticeably, though not dramatically, worse" > > than the comparison you made); >dB > And again, we have no single-CPU Superdome numbers with which toH > play... and no numbers from the EV7 where the processor frequency held > constant and the CEC changed.s  @ I'm beginning to wonder whether you *are* engaging in deliberateI misdirection here.  While such a comment would have been relevant several.H posts back, I (two posts ago now) clearly acknowledged my willingness toH consider Superdome's *own* scaling to be acceptable (though still not asJ linear as Marvel's) and instead criticize its poor scaling relative to the= zx1 chipset (a failing which of course Marvel does not have).t   >lE > > the reason your comparison below makes Superdome's scaling appeardH > > more linear when compared with zx1 is because you compared it with aC > > 4-processor zx1 score, and the zx1 chipset itself scales ratheruG > > poorly between 1 and 4 processors - but that was different from theCD > > single-processor comparison to which you were responding (I hopeG > > inadvertently, since so far you have seemed happy to discuss issues D > > on their merits rather than stoop to that kind of misdirection). >rF > It was a coin-toss in my head as single and quad CPU stuff was under
 > discussion.   K It was no coin toss at all in the material to which you were responding:  IoJ specifically compared *single*-processor systems with N-processor systems.   >nK > > But a hell of a lot better than the 1-processor-to-16-processor scaling7J > > ratio of 8.78 (I'm being kind:  if you use the rx2600 score, the ratio isL > > only 8.74) that you would have been using had you been responding to theH > > statement I actually made (ah - now we've gotten to it, just below). >I" > Again that coin-toss in my head.  E And I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that it was ansJ inadvertent mistake on your part rather than a deliberate attempt to steer= the discussion in a direction less uncomplimentary to Itanic.o   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:53:09 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>2 Subject: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266?2 Message-ID: <3f98da6a$0$237$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  8 It is possible to use an IDE disk drive in an Alpha box?K Or should I purchase an SCSI one? In that case, which one will suit? (fit?)l   Thanks,r   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2003 10:40:02 +0200C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)w6 Subject: Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266?- Message-ID: <3f98e562$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>n  A In article <3f98da6a$0$237$636a55ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandis <no@spam.com> writes:h9 >It is possible to use an IDE disk drive in an Alpha box? E >Or should I purchase an SCSI one? In that case, which one will suit?- >(fit?)- >- >Thanks, >  >D.t >0 >6  J IDE drives are not build for running all around the clock. If you know andJ accept this risk buy a SCSI-IDE-converter (www.acard.com) then you can use IDE drives on a SCSI-bus.u  J I'm very happy with this solution to burn DVDs under OpenVMS with machinesI without an IDE-controller. There is no cheap SCSI-DVD burner available on  the market.a So I have to go this way.    Eberhard   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2003 05:20:59 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 6 Subject: Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266?3 Message-ID: <EadH5fbgSaUM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <3f98e562$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:e  < > IDE drives are not build for running all around the clock.  8 Which would make them unsuitable even for my Macintosh !   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2003 13:35:07 +0200C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)f6 Subject: Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266?- Message-ID: <3f990e6b$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>h  I In article <EadH5fbgSaUM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.netr (Larry Kilgallen) writes: . >In article <3f98e562$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>,F >vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes: >a= >> IDE drives are not build for running all around the clock.p >m9 >Which would make them unsuitable even for my Macintosh !  >   H I principle yes if you use your Mac as a Server that must run 365 days / year.|   eberhard   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:08:40 +02000" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>6 Subject: Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266?2 Message-ID: <3f99164d$0$234$636a55ce@news.free.fr>   Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote:  K > In article <EadH5fbgSaUM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.nett > (Larry Kilgallen) writes:1 > / >>In article <3f98e562$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>,?G >>vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:  >>= >>>IDE drives are not build for running all around the clock.l >>: >>Which would make them unsuitable even for my Macintosh ! >>J > I principle yes if you use your Mac as a Server that must run 365 days / > year.o  ( is there such word in English: pleonasm?   :-)p   D.H (busy reading the "ultimate OpenVMS TCP/IP bible" to configure his mail G server now that he has his brand new didiermorandi.fr domain name with h MX forwarding...)n   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2003 09:17:14 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 6 Subject: Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266?3 Message-ID: <6llsWl6GGIUv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <3f990e6b$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>, vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:n > K > In article <EadH5fbgSaUM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.neta > (Larry Kilgallen) writes:d/ >>In article <3f98e562$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>,dG >>vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) writes:n >>> >>> IDE drives are not build for running all around the clock. >>: >>Which would make them unsuitable even for my Macintosh ! >> > J > I principle yes if you use your Mac as a Server that must run 365 days / > year.R  < No, it is not a Server, but it runs 24x7 doing client tasks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:57:18 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>6 Subject: Re: IDE disk drive in AlphaStation 250 4/266?8 Message-ID: <bemipvkr8flbukqgfcc3mepqqsfldpqtjh@4ax.com>  G On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:08:40 +0200, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote:a  ) >is there such word in English: pleonasm?e  I Yes, although I had never heard of it(!). Here is a link to a definition:h  2 	http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pleonasmI -------------------------------------------------------------------------hI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comlI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)iI -------------------------------------------------------------------------h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:16:18 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>H Subject: Next VAX/VMS 2  Itanium Letter issue 2 come, pls send any stuff2 Message-ID: <3f992627$0$255$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  M I'm working on the next issue of the VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Newsletter d2 (www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdf).  N Feel free to send material and/or publications if you wish it to be published 	 (free :-)   Q You may also send advertising, pictures of your favourite pet or the VMS joke of u the day.  4 Thanks for helping the rebirth of the VMS Community.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:28:29 +0200e" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> Subject: OpenOffice for VMS?2 Message-ID: <3f98d4a1$0$222$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  . Hmmm... is there a VMS/OOo project in the air?   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:16:13 +0200t) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>t  Subject: Re: OpenOffice for VMS?6 Message-ID: <3f98dfce$0$58697$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>  - Have a look at http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org/    Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    Didier Morandi wrote: 0 > Hmmm... is there a VMS/OOo project in the air? >  > D. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:12:23 -0500w* From: Patrick Spinler <pspinler@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: OpenOffice for VMS?+ Message-ID: <bnbc2h$vdl$1@tribune.mayo.edu>m  < Pulled from the openoffice.org porting mailing list archive:  J <http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?msgId=842253&listName=dev>  ( Sounds like they could use help, though.   -- Pat   Didier Morandi wrote:l0 > Hmmm... is there a VMS/OOo project in the air? >  > D. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:57:01 GMTh# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)w' Subject: OpenVMS Freeware V6.0 Contentse2 Message-ID: <xRcmb.7770$YM6.7507@news.cpqcorp.net>  I   Attached below my sig file is the abstract for all submissions that areeG   likely present on the OpenVMS Freeware V6.0 distribution, the release=5   that is expected to ship with OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2.=  G   Please do not send along any email requests for early copies of these H   packages, as I am not in a particular position to provide that serviceI   while continuing my engineering work.  (The Freeware invariably results I   in more work than I can reasonably predict, and serving up early copies A   of the submission files is beyond what I can reasonably offer.)\  I   Within a month or so after the OpenVMS Alpha release submission, copiesiI   of the Freeware will be made available via the OpenVMS Freeware website=   and within the V7.3-2 kits:-  *     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware/    3   -- Some general notes on OpenVMS Freeware V6.0...s  H   Resulting from the storage constraints on the Freeware CD media, most F   everything on the kit has been zipped -- I received rather more thanE   the two-disk 2,400,000 block limit for the shipment.  Packages thatlG   have included installation kits will see those -- and where I noticedrF   the kits, of course -- included both within and outside the zip kit,F   for ease of installation and use.  (My apologies to those folks that2   provided testing or demo or example procedures.)  D   I have edited the first line of various of the Freeware_Readme.TxtE   files to resolve problems detected by the packaging tools -- if youoF   are interested in the tools, look in the [FREEWARE] directory -- andG   I've created simple files for those packages that did not include thes   Freeware_Readme.Txt file.   I   And thanks to all the folks that have submitted Freeware kits, and thatoF   have helped with the kits -- and my apologies to all the folks that E   have submitted new or updated packages after I kitted the Freeware,tF   and my apologies to anyone here that did not see their submission(s)
   included.  n  F   What is probably just a partial list of the folks that have directlyI   and/or indirectly contributed to the Freeware can be found in the file:h  '     [FREEWARE]FREEWARE_CONTRIBUTORS.TXTs  E   If you are unfamiliar with the organization of the Freeware, pleasei   first review the file:  !     [FREEWARE]FREEWARE_README.TXT   G   The [FREEWARE] and the [000TOOLS] tools and utilities directories aretH   replicated on both volumes of the Freeware, as is usual practice.  TheI   FAQ is the October 2003 issue, one that I haven't yet distributed here.3    '   -- The next OpenVMS Freeware release?a  G   My best and most current *guess* for the next Freeware collection and!7   distribution will be with the OpenVMS V8.2 release.     D   If you have or know of any packages that would be appropriate for H   inclusion on a potential, future and as-yet unscheduled release of theH   OpenVMS Freeware :-), please submit the package (or a pointer to same)!   using the details available at:>  *     http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware/    	   Thanks!     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqrN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comb      =   -- The Likely Contents of the OpenVMS Freeware V6.0 Release        OpenVMS Freeware V6.0 Abstractse  t   & Abstracts for Volume DISK$FREEWARE60_1  pN [000TOOLS]              Various Useful Tools                                  N [BARCODE]               Barcode Software for OpenVMS                          / [BLISS.MEM]             BLISS for C Programmers N [BLISS]                 BLISS Implementation Language                         N [CDACVTLIB022]          CDA DDIF file (document) format converters            N [CDRECORD]              CD-R Recording Software                               N [CDRTOOLS]              CD-R/RW Recording Tools for OpenVMS                   N [CGI_SCRIPTS]           WASD CGI scripts ported to other server environments  N [creMBX]                create mailbox from DCL                               N [cURL]                  command-line URL-based file transfer tool             N [DCC]                   Disciplined C Checker                                 N [DCLHolidays]           Calculation of holidays                               N [DCL_CHECK]             Charlie Hammond's unsupported DCL checker             N [DCL_DIET]              Charlie Hammond's unsupported DCL dieter              N [DECxterm]              xterm key remapping (for use on UNIX Systems)         N [DFU]                   High Performance disk/file utility.                   N [DIA_ANA_FILES]         SDL for Compiler ANA and DIA Files                    N [DISKBLOCK]             Editor and performance tests for ODS2 ODS5 and ForeignN [DIX]                   A program to read/modify records in any RMS (seq/relatN [DQDRIVER]              ATA/ATAPI (IDE) Disk Driver for OpenVMS Alpha         N [DSRplus]               DIGITAL Standard Runoff Plus                          N [DVDARCHREST]           Multi-Volume CD and DVD Archives and Restores         N [DVDRTOOLS]             DVD-R/RW Recording Tools for OpenVMS                  N [DWREMTERM]             Start X-Window displays on remote machines            N [Emacs]                 The Emacs 21.2 Text Editor                            N [FIND]                  SEARCH with Replacement Capabilities                  N [FIXUP_IMAGE]           Fix an image's shareable image information            N [FREEWARE]              The Master OpenVMS Freeware README File               N [FSHELP]                A full screen help utility with lots of extra's       N [GD]                    Library to create graphs from programs                N [GHOSTSCRIPT]           Postscript and PDF interpreter for OpenVMS            N [GNM]                   Common-sources tool for messages and documentation    N [GZIP]                  GNU Zip - compress and decompress files               N [HTDIG]                 WWW indexing and searching system                     N [HTTPD_WASD]            VMS HTTP Server and CGI applications                  N [IDEZR]                 Remote Virtual Disk                                   N [IMAGEMAGICK]           Package for display/manipulation of images            N [INDENT]                Indent C Source Code                                  N [INFO-ZIP]              Zip V2.3 and UnZip V5.5 for OpenVMS                   N [JEDIT]                 XML Modes for Macro32 and Bliss                       N [JPEG]                  Library supporting the JPEG format                    N [JUMP]                  JUMP 4.2 Login as a different user without a password N [KP_CLUSTERTOOLS]       VMS & Cluster system management tools                 N [KP_LOCKTOOLS]          Tools for monitoring and controlling the VMS Lock ManaN [LD731]                 OpenVMS VAX and Alpha Virtual Disk Driver             N [LIBBZ2]                Data Compression Library                              N [LYNX]                  Text Web Browser                                      N [INTOUCH]               High-performance 4GL for OpenVMS VAX/AXP systems      N [VMSFAQ]                The OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)            c  h& Abstracts for Volume DISK$FREEWARE60_2   N [000TOOLS]              Various Useful Tools                                  N [DECWRITE_RTF]          Read and write RTF with DECwrite                      N [FREEWARE]              The Master OpenVMS Freeware README File               N [MIME_NETSCAPE]         Translate MAIL Extractions into MIME                  N [MOZPLUGGER]            plugin handler for Mozilla on VMS                     N [MPG123]                Plays MP3 files from local files or URLs              N [MXRN]                  DECwindows Motif News Reader                          N [MySQL]                 MySQL Database                                        N [MySQL_4_1_1]           MySQL 4.1.1 for OpenVMS                               N [NCS_convert]           charset conversion using NCS + conversion library     N [NETPERF]               Network Performance Benchmark                         N [NOTES]                 Notes Conferencing Software                           N [NOTIFY]                Notifies you when an already-submitted batch job is doN [NPCDCL]                DCL routines for clock calendar VT keyboards etc.     N [OMI]                   A feature rich menu development tool                  N [Perl]                  Powerful scripting language                           N [PMFD]                  Poor Man's File Defragger (IO$_MOVE on one file)      N [PSPLOT]                Fortran library for creating PostScript files         N [Python]                Python V2.3 Programming Language                      N [REGEDIT]               A program to look at or modify the registry database  N [RMS_LOCKS]             Shows all and/or blocked locks for RMS files and recorN [SD]                    Another SD SET DEFAULT tool: rich-featured powerful anN [SDL]                   Data Structure/Interface Definition Language          N [SDLXSD]                XSD generator for SDL VAX/Alpha.                      N [SHUTDOWN]              Hobbyist cluster shutdown for non-privilged users     N [SIMH302-VMS]           simh with ethernet support for OpenVMS                N [Smiley]                Print and explain smileys :-)                         N [Syltrem]               Determine Global Pages and Sections Requirements      N [TBO]                   Tool to drift system time                             N [TCPDUMP-3_7_2]         TCPDUMP and PCAP for OpenVMS                          N [TELL]                  Executes DCL Commands on Remote Nodes via DECnet      N [TIDY]                  Tidy Fortran Source Code                              N [TO]                    SET DEFAULT program - saves typing                    N [TSM]                   Terminal Server Manager                               N [INTOUCH]               High-performance 4GL for OpenVMS VAX/AXP systems      N [VILE]                  VI-LIKE-EMACS text editor                             N [VIM]                   (Vi IMproved) Vi compatible text editor.              N [VMSFAQ]                The OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)          N [VMSTAR]                Tape Archiving Package for OpenVMS                    N [WINFX]                 Windows File Exchange Utility                         N [WIZARD]                OpenVMS Info from Ask The Wizard                      N [WOLF3D]                Wolfenstein 3D for OpenVMS                            N [X10_MONITOR]           Monitor and Control X-10 and Serial Interface Devices N [Xpdf202]               Display/process Adobe PDF files                       N [XPDF202PL1]            X-Windows based viewer for PDF files                  N [XStar]                 N-body gravity simulation                             N [Ydecoder]              Yenc decoder for VMS                                  N [ZLIB]                  Compression and Decompression Library                   w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:33:01 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>d; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 0 Message-ID: <bnarke$9h1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:eJ > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.co=@ m> wrote in message news:<bn931p$lef$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >=20% >>OpenVMS's presence in the market ise? >>currently so tiny that if it were to double it would still be' >>almost invisible.u >=20 >=20C > A common misconception.  OpenVMS doesn't get as much hype as some. > things, that's all.o >=20B > Take Linux, for example.  HP is proudly Number 1 in Linux marketF > share, and earlier this year surpassed US$2 Billion in Linux-relatedF > revenues.  In contrast, HP has between $2.5 Billion and $3.0 Billion@ > in OpenVMS revenues annually, and does so with $500 Million in< > profits. (I suspect the Linux profits were a bit slimmer). >=20  . How much of the OpenVMS revenues are systems ?  5 A number of posters have stated that a very big chunk - of the OpenVMS revenues are annuity services.e   Regardsh Andrew Harrisonr  7 P.S when the Enterprise Business makes an annual profit 3 (which will not be this year) then get feel free tos4 FUD Sun if we are still making a loss. Otherwise you8 just look like another glass house owning stone thrower.H > And while we're on the subject of market presence, Sun's sure looks toH > be shrinking.  Another very bad week last week for Sun, judging by the > headlines at Yahoo Finance:.2 > =95 Sun Microsystems Stuck in Downward Spiral=20/ > Wed, Oct 15 - 3:45pm ET - Associated Press=20i8 > =95 Bad news flows like red ink at Sun Microsystems=200 > Wed, Oct 15 - 10:12pm ET - Associated Press=204 > =95 Sun Micro sees Q1 loss soar to $286 million=201 > Thu, Oct 16 - 6:14pm ET - at CBS MarketWatch=20t2 > =95 Sun Microsystems Loss Widens, Sales Slide=20# > Thu, Oct 16 - 9:21pm ET - Reuters  > =95 Just Avoid Sun=20e* > Fri, Oct 17 - 2:56pm ET - at Motley Fool3 > =95 S&P may cut Sun Microsystems 'BBB' ratings=20 & > Fri, Oct 17 - 5:01pm ET - Reuters=20 >=20C > But no need to worry, Andrew.  (At least not this quarter.)  See:e= > =95 Sun Micro CFO: Not Planning Work Force Reductions In 2Q 3 > Thu, Oct 16 - 7:00pm ET - Dow Jones Business News'   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:39:30 +0100-O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>U; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500c0 Message-ID: <bnas0i$9ik$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:6 >>>Nobody here, aside from Andrew, is negative on VMS.B >>>Everyone here, aside from Andrew, wants VMS to thrive and grow. >>? >>I have no views either way, OpenVMS's presence in the market e@ >>is currently so tiny that if it were to double it would still  >>be almost invisible. >>' >>OpenVMS inspired BS is another thing.e >>	 >>regardsa >>Andrew Harrisond >> >  >  > ROTFL ...e >  > Andrew, Andrew ... > A > Hey, like anyone, you are certainly free to participate here ini > comp.os.vms, but - > C > If OpenVMS worries Sun and you so little, if, as recent newsgroupLE > posting analysis by a few readers here is correct, why do you spend J > approx 80%+ of your online posting time in comp.os.vms and not somewhereF > that would be much more to your liking i.e. in Solaris, UNIX or even > architecture newsgroups? >   : Because with the exception of some of the more rabid Linux= newsgroups comp.os.vms contains one of the biggest collectiont= of BS merchants and as you also know you figure pretty highlyJ in that collection.u    @ > I'll bet you do not see many AIX or OpenVMS posters on SolarisI > newsgroups playing moderator to "correct" the Solaris fud and marketingt* > that would inevitablely come up there... >   F No but thats mainly because people on the Solaris/AIX newsgroups don'tG spend most of their time as you Rob, Keith, Fred etc do fudding another G vendor in an apparent attempt to hide the obvious deficiencies of theiry platform/vendor.   Regardsn Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:38:24 +0100b* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500e' Message-ID: <bnavcv$e4j$1@lore.csc.com>t  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > Main, Kerry wrote:  B > > I'll bet you do not see many AIX or OpenVMS posters on SolarisK > > newsgroups playing moderator to "correct" the Solaris fud and marketinga, > > that would inevitablely come up there... > >t > H > No but thats mainly because people on the Solaris/AIX newsgroups don'tI > spend most of their time as you Rob, Keith, Fred etc do fudding another:I > vendor in an apparent attempt to hide the obvious deficiencies of theirc > platform/vendor.  F Actually I think the posters in those newsgroups do an adequate job ofG pointing out the deficiencies of their systems without the help of FUD.a  F I recall a thread a while ago (I forget now) which was being discussedC here, and in the respective newsgroup. It wasn't the same newsgroup>E thread obviously, but more damning evidence was presented there, than " was offered or even defended here.   -- F? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesf nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:06:09 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500e8 Message-ID: <r6igpvcl3livu622b40u9vfs6ts9glv8ka@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:24 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >n4 >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message3 >news:ua58pv047c6ne5sauq8vo14mqvhnbidgdj@4ax.com...hK >> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:41:54 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>h	 >> wrote:H >> >>. >> >2+ years ago I stated that I would be hereJ >> >for the duration (until Alpha got resurrected or those responsible for >itsK >> >demise, and the lies surrounding it, were purged from the corporation).  >>E >> Well, if neither of these has happened in 2+ years, are you reallyaK >> confident that your one-man crusade will have any possibility of success ! >> for either of those two goals?  >tJ >Well, it's always *possible* that HP's shareholders will wake up some dayD >and start asking why its Enterprise division can't turn a profit...  : Yeah, I'm sure posting in c.o.v will really help that one.   >c >>J >> Attempts to torpedo any positive development that does come about won't8 >> accomplish either of those goals, that's for certain. >1K >See above.  Besides, keeping potential customers aware of the character ofyK >the organization they're dealing with (and the limitations of the hardwarea0 >it's touting) is something of a public service.  F Except that some of your comments border on defamation (not to mentionG FUD).  While you certainly have offered your analysis of the Alpha etc.pH history, it has little to no bearing on what we are doing now.  And yourE constant rehashing of history in relation to what we are doing now isy meaningless.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:12:50 +0100cO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>o; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500w0 Message-ID: <bnb8gj$e3p$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nic Clews wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>Main, Kerry wrote: >  > A >>>I'll bet you do not see many AIX or OpenVMS posters on SolariseJ >>>newsgroups playing moderator to "correct" the Solaris fud and marketing+ >>>that would inevitablely come up there...K >>>  >>H >>No but thats mainly because people on the Solaris/AIX newsgroups don'tI >>spend most of their time as you Rob, Keith, Fred etc do fudding anothercI >>vendor in an apparent attempt to hide the obvious deficiencies of theiro >>platform/vendor. >  > H > Actually I think the posters in those newsgroups do an adequate job ofI > pointing out the deficiencies of their systems without the help of FUD.o >   A People on this newsgroup also point out technical deficiencies ine# OpenVMS as you know perfectly well.n  > However what people in the other newsgroups don't do is try to? hide these behind a FUD smokescreen directed at another vendor.7  @ Remember I started posting to this group in response to a streamA of BS from Rob about Sun's apparent failures at eBay all of whichc turned out to be total C**P.  ? Check my past posts I have also never suggested that OpenVMS isl= crap, rubbish, terrible, slow, insecure etc all words used byP? members of the choir describe Solaris, Linux, UNIX. Mostly usedc> by people who have absolutely no experience of the system that they are describing.  @ I am carefull not describe OpenVMS in these terms because I have: no current experience of OpenVMS, I used VMS when I was at; univercity and later when I used to install DECNET on SunOS = at Digital/Sun sites. Its a great pity that the vast majorityi< of Solaris slaggers off who fall directly into this category' as well don't follow the same strategy.e  ; It never ceases to ammuse me that members of the choir suchn? as Kerry/Fred/Keith seem so entirely unable to manage that tinyc@ bit of self analysis which would help them realise that they are what they accuse me of being.l   regardse Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:15:41 -0400s* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500s2 Message-ID: <acqdnfj6UM-7zQSiRVn-uA@metrocast.net>  3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 2 news:r6igpvcl3livu622b40u9vfs6ts9glv8ka@4ax.com...J > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:24 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >e > >*6 > >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message5 > >news:ua58pv047c6ne5sauq8vo14mqvhnbidgdj@4ax.com...d4 > >> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:41:54 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > >> wrote:r > >> > >>0 > >> >2+ years ago I stated that I would be hereL > >> >for the duration (until Alpha got resurrected or those responsible for > >its? > >> >demise, and the lies surrounding it, were purged from theA
 corporation).e > >>G > >> Well, if neither of these has happened in 2+ years, are you reallytE > >> confident that your one-man crusade will have any possibility of  successt# > >> for either of those two goals?r > >pL > >Well, it's always *possible* that HP's shareholders will wake up some dayF > >and start asking why its Enterprise division can't turn a profit... >l< > Yeah, I'm sure posting in c.o.v will really help that one.  K I'd certainly like to think so.  After all, if everyone had just gone along8L with Compaq's spin about the Alphacide and figured everything was just fine,J VMS system revenues might not have dropped in half (to $2 billion annuallyI as of the following December, as stated in the 'response to Gartner' thatnI Compaq management apparently never followed up on as some here had statediK they would...).  According to recent statements (which Keith just repeated,uE IIRC) they haven't really recovered all that much since then, either: L  $2.5 - $3 billion with $500 million in annual profit, vs. the $4 billion inI revenue and $800 million in profit prior to the Alphacide - and given howiJ much of that reflects service revenues (since people don't just throw awayK hardware with useful life left in it, no matter how pissed off they may be)hK rather than new sales, the prospects for the future don't look very good...%  H It did take a while for word to get around about Compaq's disinformationK campaign, but with diligence and attention to spotlighting the details wordnC seems to have gotton out eventually - and, as I said above, perhapsiL *someday* HP's shareholders will wake up and want to know why its EnterpriseE division's performance isn't more like that of Compaq and HP prior to A mid-2001.  And it also changed the general tone here from initialnK befuddlement and tentative acceptance to something a lot more wary.  So alluK in all, I'm fairly happy with the results of my efforts (and those of a few L similarly-minded individuals), though I'm still waiting for those results toG achieve the desired end-effect upon those in a position to pick up HP'seJ management by the heels and shake it vigorously until the weasels fall out- and slink away under a log where they belong.    >m > >f > >>L > >> Attempts to torpedo any positive development that does come about won't: > >> accomplish either of those goals, that's for certain. > > J > >See above.  Besides, keeping potential customers aware of the character ofD > >the organization they're dealing with (and the limitations of the hardware2 > >it's touting) is something of a public service. > H > Except that some of your comments border on defamation (not to mention > FUD).   L Defamation where defamation is due - that's my motto.  And a *lot* of it is,K oh-so-richly, due.  But never FUD:  Compaq took care of that all by itself,  by its own actions.1  B   While you certainly have offered your analysis of the Alpha etc.J > history, it has little to no bearing on what we are doing now.  And yourG > constant rehashing of history in relation to what we are doing now ish > meaningless.  K Really?  Remember your Santayana:  "Those who do not learn from history areiK doomed to repeat it."  And by George (so to speak), we seem to be repeating  it this very day.-  G But if you still feel it's meaningless, you're absolutely, 100% free tot ignore it, with my blessing.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:47:21 GMTs& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500-8 Message-ID: <vflipvg2uj7vq4bvai83q0p9ef87g3i827@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:03:33 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:   >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: J >> In fact, if 3-4 posters would dissapear - 95% of the true negative spinL >> would be gone... leaving those who - while not always happy - want VMS to >> succeed.f >eE >If 3-4 posters were to be censored, then only positive HP spin by HPdO >apologists would be published, painting a rosy picture of the VMS environment, L >painting IA64 as the next best thing since sliced bread, connvincing peopleK >that advertising is not necessary for VMS, convincing everyone that VMS is N >alive and doing well and hiding any negative stories about VMS (such as large >customers jumping ship).I  I Note that he did NOT say anything about censoring, that's merely your owne little paranoia setting in.l  F The fact is that most of this negativity from those 3-4 posters is allG OPINION, and almost always harkening back to things like: a) yeah, theyrI said blah, but they didn't say anything about blah, blah, blah; b) but if-6 they hadn't killed alpha, we be blah, blah, blah; etc.  I In other words, most of the negative posts have little to do with what is  going on today.o  J And if someone from HP provides some information that someone else in hereI has had bad experience with, nobody is saying that they shouldn't be able6I to post.  That's the kind of discussion that we normally expect in cov...aJ not this endless blathering about what amounts to political axes to grind.   > [snip the rest...]   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:55:59 +0000 (UTC)n From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 ) Message-ID: <bnbliv$s51$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>-  a In article <r6igpvcl3livu622b40u9vfs6ts9glv8ka@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:KI >On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:24 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- >wrote:5 >S >>5 >>"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagew4 >>news:ua58pv047c6ne5sauq8vo14mqvhnbidgdj@4ax.com...L >>> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:41:54 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>
 >>> wrote: >>>l >>> / >>> >2+ years ago I stated that I would be herecK >>> >for the duration (until Alpha got resurrected or those responsible for0 >>its L >>> >demise, and the lies surrounding it, were purged from the corporation). >>>sF >>> Well, if neither of these has happened in 2+ years, are you reallyL >>> confident that your one-man crusade will have any possibility of success" >>> for either of those two goals? >>K >>Well, it's always *possible* that HP's shareholders will wake up some daytE >>and start asking why its Enterprise division can't turn a profit...l >o; >Yeah, I'm sure posting in c.o.v will really help that one.u >i >> >>>nK >>> Attempts to torpedo any positive development that does come about won'th9 >>> accomplish either of those goals, that's for certain.- >>L >>See above.  Besides, keeping potential customers aware of the character ofL >>the organization they're dealing with (and the limitations of the hardware1 >>it's touting) is something of a public service.a >HG >Except that some of your comments border on defamation (not to mentionrH >FUD).  While you certainly have offered your analysis of the Alpha etc.I >history, it has little to no bearing on what we are doing now.  And your F >constant rehashing of history in relation to what we are doing now is
 >meaningless.u >t  : The performance of IA64 against Alpha isn't relevent now ?L The performance of IA64 against what Alpha would have been with even minimalD support - ie keeping to the published roadmap - isn't relevent now ?K The performance of IA64 against other still being developed platforms isn'th relevent now ?  . I doubt many customers see this as irrelevent.  L As to Bill's interpretation of history it seems much closer to the reality II remember than some of the attempts to rewrite history others have posted.     O As always seems to be the case with IA64 only the future will tell whether IA64nM will be successful. It seems to always be the chip which will win big at somecN point in the future. Maybe as with the commercial adoption of Unix in the late? eighties next year will be the year of IA64 but then maybe not.         
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:06:58 -0400s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500t) Message-ID: <3F995C30.A989F64F@istop.com>r  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:H > No but thats mainly because people on the Solaris/AIX newsgroups don'tI > spend most of their time as you Rob, Keith, Fred etc do fudding another I > vendor in an apparent attempt to hide the obvious deficiencies of theirR > platform/vendor.    J Mr Andrew, do you ever find yourself criticizing Sun ? One doesn't bit theM hand that feeds it. These people don't have the freedom to express themselves P and have to defend their employer, no matter how badly their employer screws up.  H These people are not stupid. They have seen how VMS had made Digital theL second largest computer company in the world and is now relegated to a smallJ niche market with the need to constantly fight the image that it is dead. N They have seen all the missed opportunities bith Digital, Compaq and HP had to& push VMS with a big marketing splash.   G Olsen and Palmer could have killed the PC with vaxstations, clustering,-L Xwindows applications that were, at the time, far better than what microsoftL had to offer for word processing email etc. And had Digital pushed this ontoM desktops at competitive prices, the volumes would have enabled Digital to putx: more resources into developping the desktop applications.   C Palmer also screwed up Alpha. Great potential which was prevented. a  B Compaq could have pushed VMS desktops just before Linux took hold.L Corporations would have much prefered a supported solution as al alternative
 to Microsoft.a  K There is a long list of "could have done".  And those apologists know that.-D They see the marketing done by VMS competitors. They see the lack ofJ advertising. They see that the only efforts HP takes are to reach existingB customers with no attempt to "market" outside existing customers.   J And while we can applaud their technical prowess and serious knowledge andC expertise, there is only so much they can do to improve VMS and itscE applicatiosn when they are dedicated to teh port to another platform..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:15:47 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500-) Message-ID: <3F995E41.9DD55FE5@istop.com>2  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:4 > I am carefull not describe OpenVMS in these terms     S Mr Andrew, if you had a true interest in VMS, you wouldn't be calling it "openVMS".r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:31:56 -0400s8 From: "Tom Simpson" <tom.simpson@osioutsourcing.bad.com>C Subject: Position Available: Short term project in Jacksonville Fl.e* Message-ID: <bnb9mm$1i4m$1@news.wplus.net>  F We are in immediate need of an experienced DCL programmer to assist inJ automating our night time processing.  VMS BASIC experience would be a big9 plus as would experience programming the MRU for Backups.   I All of our night time processing is currently done by operators executing ? DCL command procedures that run BACKUP and various custom BASICe
 applications.   I Our production environment consists of a 2-node ES40 cluster and one testyE system running off a fiber channel connected Storageworks array.  TheaJ production systems run VMS 7.2-1 (soon to be 7.3-1).  The test system runs
 VMS 7.3-1.  H This is a short-term project, not a permanent position.  We would preferL that the individual would be able to work on-site (at least initially).  The% estimated time required is one month.n  F To Reply, remove the .bad term from the posted internet reply address.   Regards, Tom Simpsonb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:21:48 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Positive VMS news !!o& Message-ID: <3F990B4C.3000700@home.nl>  I In the Netherlands we have two weekly ICT newspapers, Computable and "De tO Automatiseringsgids". The first one already wrote a nice article about the VMS 4Q Technical Update Seminar in Ede last month, and now "De Automatiseringsgids" has kO    almost entirely devoted the opening page of the second gathering of today's hP publication on OpenVMS ! Interviews with Andy Goldstein and Terry Shannon, news O about the porting of Open Office to VMS etc. The article also mentions reasons  Q why people want to stay with VMS, or return to VMS after some expensive mistakes e
 with Unix.  L I would like to provide a link to the article, but I'm afraid it is only in 9 Dutch and you need a username/password to get to the URL.e  A However, a full newspaper page with positive news. Cheers Sue !!!    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:23:11 GMT,# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t! Subject: Re: Positive VMS news !!lJ Message-ID: <jBamb.22926$3f.20142@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Dirk Munk wrote:F > In the Netherlands we have two weekly ICT newspapers, Computable andF > "De Automatiseringsgids". The first one already wrote a nice articleG > about the VMS Technical Update Seminar in Ede last month, and now "DeiF >    Automatiseringsgids" has almost entirely devoted the opening page= > of the second gathering of today's publication on OpenVMS !iB > Interviews with Andy Goldstein and Terry Shannon, news about theF > porting of Open Office to VMS etc. The article also mentions reasons? > why people want to stay with VMS, or return to VMS after someA > expensive mistakes with Unix.t > E > I would like to provide a link to the article, but I'm afraid it islC > only in Dutch and you need a username/password to get to the URL.l >tC > However, a full newspaper page with positive news. Cheers Sue !!!     K Call/write the editors/publisher and ask if you can have permission to post  a translation to c.o.v.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:30:11 +0100hO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>/& Subject: Re: Spam from Hewlett-Packard0 Message-ID: <bnauvj$amu$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith A. Lewis wrote:- > Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes in article <3F985283.5050902@Flying-Disk.com> dated Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:23 -0700:i > A >>He said that Dan Swartwood called him again today, still tryingV >>to drag them into this.    >  > L > And you posted here again, still trying to drag comp.os.vms (HP's clients)- > into it.  Maybe he's playing "tit for tat"?o >   	 How adultE   Regardsp Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:09:25 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> & Subject: Re: Spam from Hewlett-Packard, Message-ID: <3F994EB5.50506@Flying-Disk.com>   Mark Buda wrote:  M > I would suggest contacting his boss and letting them know what is going on.m  > How does one do that?   He claimed to be a "level 3" employee.  9 Mark, please e-mail me.   I tried the obvious de-mungings 0 of your e-mail address, but Yahoo rejected them.  & Alan          Remove "REMOVE" to reply   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:14:30 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> Subject: Time server protocole? 2 Message-ID: <3f98d15b$0$238$636a55ce@news.free.fr>   Helli Everybodo,  > Where could I find a description of the Time Server protocole?F I would like to synch my VMS box, which is slowly going to production ? land (today: WASD mirror, tomorrow: OpenOffice mirror, then...)u   Thanks,    D. --  ;           Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Newse?        English: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdfa@        French: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310fr.pdf  F didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPC      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationOD    5 avenue Albert Durand 31700 Blagnac France Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287D    SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:38:10 +0200 - From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> # Subject: Re: Time server protocole? 8 Message-ID: <bnavek$t72ee$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>   Didier Morandi wrote: @ > Where could I find a description of the Time Server protocole?G > I would like to synch my VMS box, which is slowly going to productionmA > land (today: WASD mirror, tomorrow: OpenOffice mirror, then...)x  < If you'd like to pick NTP for time sync: http://www.ntp.org/   cu,t   Martin -- aF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:50:22 +0200 * From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il># Subject: Re: Time server protocole?S* Message-ID: <3F9903EE.6020406@tzora.co.il>   Martin Vorlaender wrote: > Didier Morandi wrote:I > @ >>Where could I find a description of the Time Server protocole?G >>I would like to synch my VMS box, which is slowly going to production A >>land (today: WASD mirror, tomorrow: OpenOffice mirror, then...)t >  > > > If you'd like to pick NTP for time sync: http://www.ntp.org/ >  > cu, 
 >   Martin  K Didier: What stack are you using? Setting up NTP on a TCPIP V5.3 is fairly  Q immediate - enable and start in TCPIP$CONFIG, copy a template file to *.CONF and  P edit -  if you have connectivity to a NTP server (i.e. is your firewall open on 
 port 123?)   --  J New to Usenet? read http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE ---------------------------------------------------------------------]E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. D Mike Rechtman                                 *rechtman@tzora.co.il*C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"iE ---------------------------------------------------------------------t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:46:45 +0200a From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl># Subject: Re: Time server protocole?o2 Message-ID: <bnb01q$425$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Didier Morandi wrote:o > Helli Everybodo, > @ > Where could I find a description of the Time Server protocole?H > I would like to synch my VMS box, which is slowly going to production A > land (today: WASD mirror, tomorrow: OpenOffice mirror, then...)  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > D.E If you want to sync your VMS box, then there are three ways to do so.   Q 1. connect a supported time receiver to a serial port of your system. This radio  N receiver will use a precise time signal from a powerfull transmitter and your J VAX can sync its clock on that signal. (DCF77 is a well known German time O provider with a transmitter in Frankfurt. But there is also a French station).  K If you do this your system can also act as a timeprovider for NTP and DTSS.   O 2. Use NTP from the TCPIP stack to sync your system with a timeprovider on the   Internet (or intranet).   H 3. Use DTSS, but that will only work in a DECnet Phase V network with a  timeprovider as described in 1.+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:02:18 +0200m* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il># Subject: Re: Time server protocole? * Message-ID: <3F9922DA.3060401@tzora.co.il>   Didier Morandi wrote:  > Mike Rechtman wrote: > G >> Didier: What stack are you using? Setting up NTP on a TCPIP V5.3 is oH >> fairly immediate - enable and start in TCPIP$CONFIG, copy a template G >> file to *.CONF and edit -  if you have connectivity to a NTP server  , >> (i.e. is your firewall open on port 123?) >  > D > I tell you, one post, three answers, two pages of RTFM, a few DCL D > commands and you know the first name of my uncle. VMS, I love you. > 
 > BUT !... > 5 > DTL02> ty SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP_RUN.LOGR( > 24 Oct 14:39:55  ntpd version = 3-5.91J > 24 Oct 14:39:55  tickadj = 97, tick = 976, tvu_maxslew = 99231, est. hz  > = 1024' > 24 Oct 14:39:55  precision = 976 usec H > 24 Oct 14:39:55  drift file 'SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP.DRIFT'  > does not e! > xist: no such file or directoryt4 > 24 Oct 14:39:55  will attempt to create drift file( > 24 Oct 14:39:55  read drift of 0 from ) > SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP.DRIFTu< > 24 Oct 14:44:48  synchronized to 145.238.110.68, stratum=22 > 24 Oct 14:44:49  time reset (slew) 90.183853 sec' > 24 Oct 14:44:49  synchronization lostnM > 24 Oct 14:44:51  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.008198 secnM > 24 Oct 14:44:52  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003611 sec M > 24 Oct 14:44:53  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003513 sec M > 24 Oct 14:44:54  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003318 secs > ../..a > (many lines ommited) >  > Where is the HOWTO???????  >  > D. >  See:; http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6526/6526pro_023.html    -- EJ New to Usenet? read http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmE --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. D Mike Rechtman                                 *rechtman@tzora.co.il*C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" E ---------------------------------------------------------------------s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:52:01 +0200S" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com># Subject: Re: Time server protocole?t2 Message-ID: <3f99207b$0$255$636a55ce@news.free.fr>   Mike Rechtman wrote:  F > Didier: What stack are you using? Setting up NTP on a TCPIP V5.3 is G > fairly immediate - enable and start in TCPIP$CONFIG, copy a template  F > file to *.CONF and edit -  if you have connectivity to a NTP server + > (i.e. is your firewall open on port 123?)   O I tell you, one post, three answers, two pages of RTFM, a few DCL commands and  5 you know the first name of my uncle. VMS, I love you.    BUT !...  3 DTL02> ty SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP_RUN.LOGV& 24 Oct 14:39:55  ntpd version = 3-5.91N 24 Oct 14:39:55  tickadj = 97, tick = 976, tvu_maxslew = 99231, est. hz = 1024% 24 Oct 14:39:55  precision = 976 usecaP 24 Oct 14:39:55  drift file 'SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP.DRIFT' does not e xist: no such file or directorym2 24 Oct 14:39:55  will attempt to create drift fileM 24 Oct 14:39:55  read drift of 0 from SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP.DRIFTw: 24 Oct 14:44:48  synchronized to 145.238.110.68, stratum=20 24 Oct 14:44:49  time reset (slew) 90.183853 sec% 24 Oct 14:44:49  synchronization lost K 24 Oct 14:44:51  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.008198 secwK 24 Oct 14:44:52  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003611 secnK 24 Oct 14:44:53  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003513 secaK 24 Oct 14:44:54  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003318 sect ../..r (many lines ommited)   Where is the HOWTO???????L   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:23:25 +0200i" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com># Subject: Re: Time server protocole?r2 Message-ID: <3f9927d2$0$232$636a55ce@news.free.fr>   Mike Rechtman wrote:   > See:= > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6526/6526pro_023.htmlh   :-(r   (where is my RTFM HOWTO ? :-)n   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:37:27 +0200s( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl># Subject: Re: Time server protocole? 9 Message-ID: <bnbkkh$vorqf$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>y  1 "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> schreef in berichth, news:3f99207b$0$255$636a55ce@news.free.fr... > Mike Rechtman wrote: >oG > > Didier: What stack are you using? Setting up NTP on a TCPIP V5.3 is H > > fairly immediate - enable and start in TCPIP$CONFIG, copy a templateG > > file to *.CONF and edit -  if you have connectivity to a NTP server - > > (i.e. is your firewall open on port 123?)= > L > I tell you, one post, three answers, two pages of RTFM, a few DCL commands and 7 > you know the first name of my uncle. VMS, I love you.r >W
 > BUT !... > 5 > DTL02> ty SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP_RUN.LOGt( > 24 Oct 14:39:55  ntpd version = 3-5.91K > 24 Oct 14:39:55  tickadj = 97, tick = 976, tvu_maxslew = 99231, est. hz =  1024' > 24 Oct 14:39:55  precision = 976 usec L > 24 Oct 14:39:55  drift file 'SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP.DRIFT' does not er! > xist: no such file or directoryN4 > 24 Oct 14:39:55  will attempt to create drift file' > 24 Oct 14:39:55  read drift of 0 from ' SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP.DRIFT < > 24 Oct 14:44:48  synchronized to 145.238.110.68, stratum=22 > 24 Oct 14:44:49  time reset (slew) 90.183853 sec' > 24 Oct 14:44:49  synchronization lostnI > 24 Oct 14:44:51  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.008198a seceI > 24 Oct 14:44:52  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003611y seceI > 24 Oct 14:44:53  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003513  secrI > 24 Oct 14:44:54  Previous time adjustment incomplete; residual 0.003318  sect > ../..i > (many lines ommited) >  > Where is the HOWTO???????p >d > D. >oK The log seems quite alright. Last week I started to use NTP too and got the G same kind of log file. But the systems stay in sync with the configured D servers. One NTP server is in the Netherlands (near by) the other in Slovenia (it runs on an Alpha).nE BTW if you search for Alpha on the stratum 1 servers you'll find thatd> Microsoft runs its own NTP server. On an Alpha under Tru64 :-)   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:19:38 +0200 ( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl># Subject: Re: Time server protocole?o9 Message-ID: <bnbn3k$vblfn$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   - "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> schreef in berichtn, news:bnb01q$425$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > Helli Everybodo, > >a >AL > 1. connect a supported time receiver to a serial port of your system. This radioaJ > receiver will use a precise time signal from a powerfull transmitter and yourK > VAX can sync its clock on that signal. (DCF77 is a well known German time F > provider with a transmitter in Frankfurt. But there is also a French	 station).tG > If you do this your system can also act as a timeprovider for NTP anda DTSS.n >w Dirk,o  I could you elaborate on this option? What kind of equipment do you need tob run your own stratum 1 server?   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:31 GMTg. From: Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@nospamhp.com>M Subject: Re: Tru64 unix Layeredproducts won't install on my OpenVMS machines! 2 Message-ID: <nf9mb.7746$zF6.5549@news.cpqcorp.net>  E I'm checking with DSPP on this issue.  On the surface, it looks like  G they shipped the UNIX Q4 kit to the wrong list.  The OpenVMS Q4 update i isn't due yet.   Sorry for the inconvenience.   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:23:56 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>dM Subject: RE: Tru64 unix Layeredproducts won't install on my OpenVMS machines!e9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMECDIFAA.tom@kednos.com>g  G I should get both VMS and Tru64 updates, but I only got one.  Does thatl% mean I will get one more of the same?i   When is 7.3-2 schedule to ship?n   >-----Original Message-----a6 >From: Mark Schafer [mailto:mark.schafer@nospamhp.com]' >Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 5:52 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD >Subject: Re: Tru64 unix Layeredproducts won't install on my OpenVMS
 >machines! >e >aF >I'm checking with DSPP on this issue.  On the surface, it looks like H >they shipped the UNIX Q4 kit to the wrong list.  The OpenVMS Q4 update  >isn't due yet.i >i >Sorry for the inconvenience.- >  >Markc >i >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.O; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 >w ---8& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2003 12:13:33 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)M Subject: Re: Tru64 unix Layeredproducts won't install on my OpenVMS machines!e3 Message-ID: <7DgeYt1QkEUV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <nf9mb.7746$zF6.5549@news.cpqcorp.net>, Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@nospamhp.com> writes:oG > I'm checking with DSPP on this issue.  On the surface, it looks like aI > they shipped the UNIX Q4 kit to the wrong list.  The OpenVMS Q4 update p > isn't due yet. >  > Sorry for the inconvenience. >  > Mark >   > I checked with my DSPP rep and she said that that is the case,? the Tru64 kit went to the wrong list.  The VMS kit will be out   in November (IIRC).  a  ; Also, the old DSPP (ISV/ASAP/ETC) 800 number now goes to a t> "call our hot talk line" message.  I didn't call the suggested? 800 number they mentioned in the message, but might it be a newv= way to get developers interest?  "oooooh, VMS developers are ( soooo HOT, baby!")  2 The new (to me anyway) 800 number is 800-249-3294.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:33:30 +0200o" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>7 Subject: VAXscan now available on OpenVMS Alpha systemsl2 Message-ID: <3f99383f$0$251$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  / (from http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/scan.html)   . VAXscan now available on OpenVMS Alpha systems  L VAXscan is a block-structured programming language that runs in the OpenVMS Q Alpha and OpenVMS VAX environments to build tools to manipulate text strings and U text files.   ? The primary applications for VAXscan are filters, translators, eN extractors/analyzers, and preprocessors. It is a versatile tool that includes O string operators for searching, comparing, extracting, and assigning character K strings.  M A significant strength of VAXscan is in the pattern-matching constructs that nJ permit matching of one or more complex patterns of text in the input data.  P It is used by many companies that process large amounts of text data or utilize 4 complex procedures to manipulate input data streams.  Q Previously available for OpenVMS VAX systems, VAXscan has now migrated to the HP tP OpenVMS Alpha platform, allowing users of VAXscan to expand their capabilities. H It is available from Emulators International, a company specializing in 1 migration and migrated tools for OpenVMS systems.t  & Product information is to be found at:  '  http://www.emulatorsinternational.comi   D  -- g;           Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration Newsr?        English: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdf @        French: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310fr.pdf  F didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPC      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationhD    5 avenue Albert Durand 31700 Blagnac France Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287D    SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:05:53 -0700d# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>o; Subject: RE: VAXscan now available on OpenVMS Alpha systemst9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICECKIFAA.tom@kednos.com>t  A FREJA> HELP/LIBRARY=SYS$HELP:DBG$HELP DEBUG Language_Support SCANa   DEBUGm     Language_Support       SCAN  I          (VAX only) The following subtopics describe debugger support forf          SCAN.  G For production, the emulator should be perfectly OK, but if you need to  change* the code, you will need to back to the VAX   >-----Original Message----- * >From: Didier Morandi [mailto:no@spam.com]' >Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:34 AMS >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8 >Subject: VAXscan now available on OpenVMS Alpha systems >e > 0 >(from http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/scan.html) > / >VAXscan now available on OpenVMS Alpha systems. > @ >VAXscan is a block-structured programming language that runs in >the OpenVMS@ >Alpha and OpenVMS VAX environments to build tools to manipulate >text strings andv >text files. >m? >The primary applications for VAXscan are filters, translators,"@ >extractors/analyzers, and preprocessors. It is a versatile tool >that includes; >string operators for searching, comparing, extracting, and  >assigning character	 >strings.s >s= >A significant strength of VAXscan is in the pattern-matchingr >constructs thatK >permit matching of one or more complex patterns of text in the input data.r >a@ >It is used by many companies that process large amounts of text >data or utilize5 >complex procedures to manipulate input data streams.p > > >Previously available for OpenVMS VAX systems, VAXscan has now >migrated to the HPaB >OpenVMS Alpha platform, allowing users of VAXscan to expand their >capabilities.H >It is available from Emulators International, a company specializing in2 >migration and migrated tools for OpenVMS systems. >C' >Product information is to be found at:r >e( > http://www.emulatorsinternational.com >  >D >-- < >          Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration News@ >       English: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdfA >       French: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310fr.pdfi >hG >didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPuD >     Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationE >   5 avenue Albert Durand 31700 Blagnac France Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287iE >   SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.comn >i >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.s; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).fB >Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 >a ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:30:50 +0200 % From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>d$ Subject: Re: VMS Text Files --> Unix. Message-ID: <bnak0n$gfi$1@info.service.rug.nl>  3 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message = 3 news:bn98m6$ucaf1$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de...e" > On 2003-10-23 20:30, "JJ" wrote: >=20I > > I have about 25 gig worth of data that I need to put on a tape from =y atE > > vms system that is readable and useable on an unix system. I havevH > > tried vmstar and it doesn't write to the tape. The version of VMSTARF > > is 3-4.1. VMSTAR will let me however make a huge tar ball on the = disk. G > > Once I have all the files in a large tarball on the disk, how can IaD > > transfer it to a dlt device, so that it can be read on an unix = system?v > >=20$ > > Any help is greatly appreciated. >=20E > What about BACKUP /INTERCHANGE to write "standard" records to tape?B >=20	 > Michaelo  F But then the problem remains how to read this backup tape on an unix = system.iA BACKUP /INTERCHANGE is meant for interchange between VMS systems.hG It does not add information in the backup saveset that is irrelevant onoI other VMS systems (like ACLs) but it does not change the file format of =e text files.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 22:43:00 +1000o: From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>$ Subject: Re: VMS Text Files --> UnixC Message-ID: <3f991e76$0$95050$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>h  K what about copy, which produces an ANSII tape and then using dd on the UNIXw side?a   -- g David McKenzie  7 David.Mckenzie@paradigm-shift.dot.biz  remove the "dot"o OpenVMS IT Privacy and Law   http://www.paradigm-shift.bize+ <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:PUdoyB3TvTp4@eisner.encompasserve.org...s> > In article <8c7decf3.0310231030.d57989d@posting.google.com>, jjnojack@yahoo.com (JJ) writes:- > > Hi All,- > >-I > > I have about 25 gig worth of data that I need to put on a tape from aaE > > vms system that is readable and useable on an unix system. I haveeH > > tried vmstar and it doesn't write to the tape. The version of VMSTARJ > > is 3-4.1. VMSTAR will let me however make a huge tar ball on the disk.G > > Once I have all the files in a large tarball on the disk, how can I J > > transfer it to a dlt device, so that it can be read on an unix system? >pB > Your tarball on disk should be a file with fixed length 512 byte# > records with no carriage control.d >aD > I believe a Unix tar tape defaults to a blocking factor of 20 to 1B > with 10240 bytes per block on tape.  So an appropriate technique > is:c > 7 > $ MOUNT /FOREIGN tape-drive: /BLOCK=10240 /RECORD=512n# > $ CONVERT tarball.tar tape-drive:d >i@ > It's been a long time since I've had to copy data to a foreign? > mounted tape. My recollection is that you need to use CONVERTbA > when copying data _to_ tape in order to get the records blockedl* > appropriately.  $ COPY won't do the job. >o@ > If all else fails, use dd to copy data from tarball on tape to@ > tarball on Unix disk and blocking factor on tape should become
 > irrelevant.  >h
 > John Briggs)   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2003 08:19:06 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t$ Subject: Re: VMS Text Files --> Unix3 Message-ID: <er1sOKhLdM41@eisner.encompasserve.org>n   In article <3f991e76$0$95050$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>, "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> writes:M > what about copy, which produces an ANSII tape and then using dd on the UNIXn > side?i >   B    Many UNIX now have ltf, which has a tar-like command syntax but)    reads/writes single volume ANSI tapes.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:20:36 -0700i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>D$ Subject: RE: VMS Text Files --> Unix9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECDIFAA.tom@kednos.com>e   >-----Original Message-----tC >From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]o' >Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:19 AMj >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >Subject: Re: VMS Text Files --> Unixu >o >q >In article A ><3f991e76$0$95050$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>, "David d6 >McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> writes:C >> what about copy, which produces an ANSII tape and then using dd a >on the UNIX >> side? >> p >iC >   Many UNIX now have ltf, which has a tar-like command syntax bute* >   reads/writes single volume ANSI tapes.  G It's a while back, but I think used 'dd' to read ANSI tapes at one timeh   >u >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.s; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).aB >Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 >t ---s& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003o   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Oct 2003 06:35:22 -0700- From: djesys@earthlink.net (David J Dachtera) $ Subject: Re: VMS Text Files --> Unix= Message-ID: <66a00d01.0310240535.76de326c@posting.google.com>a  a jjnojack@yahoo.com (JJ) wrote in message news:<8c7decf3.0310231030.d57989d@posting.google.com>...H	 > Hi All,h > G > I have about 25 gig worth of data that I need to put on a tape from a C > vms system that is readable and useable on an unix system. I have F > tried vmstar and it doesn't write to the tape. The version of VMSTARH > is 3-4.1. VMSTAR will let me however make a huge tar ball on the disk.E > Once I have all the files in a large tarball on the disk, how can I?H > transfer it to a dlt device, so that it can be read on an unix system? > " > Any help is greatly appreciated. >  > JJ   What you'll want to do is this:r  @ $ MOUNT/FOREIGN ddcu:   ! "ddcu:" is the device name of the tape drive. $ COPY tarball_filespec ddcu:s $ DISMOUNT ddcu:  E When you go to read this on your UN*X system, you may need to use thetE -b option and specify a blocking factor of 1. The man page for tar oneB Solaris 8 indicates that tar should automatically detect the input= block size. Remember to tell tar to read from the raw device.s   -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 15:47:05 +0200x" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>3 Subject: [survey] why do you still use VAX systems?a2 Message-ID: <3f992d5f$0$240$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  * A few more questions for the next VV2IMNL:> (private answers may be sent to mailto:didier.morandi@free.fr)  # 1. why are you still using VAX/VMS?V  Q 2. what do you plan to do in ten years, when they are no more maintained under a r HW contract from HP?  C 3. if you would *have* to migrate (no more spare parts, management a. decision,...), what would be your best choice?      a) go Alpha    b) go Itanium0    c) go CHARON-VAX or other emulation solutions    d) go to another vendor    e) ... (please fill in)   Thanks,    D.   --  >        Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration NewsLetter?        English: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdft@        French: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310fr.pdf  F didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPC      Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationwD    5 avenue Albert Durand 31700 Blagnac France Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287D    SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:12:58 -0700a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>c7 Subject: RE: [survey] why do you still use VAX systems?w9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOECFIFAA.tom@kednos.com>   6 Got this from one of our PL/I users a short while back  ( >>We are not moving to Alpha because the3 >>processor is not in production for the long term.d/ >>We would assume that like the VAX the support 8 >>for Alpha hardware and its associated operating system8 >>will only diminish with time.  The level of effort and8 >>cost to go from VAX to Alpha cannot be justified under >>those circumstances.  2 >>>Have you thought about the CHARON VAX emulator? >>G >>Yes that was considered but the Sales group did not think we would besG >>happy with the performance compared with our 7840. I think this wouldeE >>be the best approach given the current industry picture.  I'm stilleI >>interested in what the future picture for the OpenVMS PL/I compiler is.eA >>What would you guess the cost would be to port to intel or sun?s     >-----Original Message-----i* >From: Didier Morandi [mailto:no@spam.com]' >Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:47 AMt >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4 >Subject: [survey] why do you still use VAX systems? >2 >c+ >A few more questions for the next VV2IMNL:e? >(private answers may be sent to mailto:didier.morandi@free.fr)u >n$ >1. why are you still using VAX/VMS? >F> >2. what do you plan to do in ten years, when they are no more >maintained under ai >HW contract from HP?m > C >3. if you would *have* to migrate (no more spare parts, managementl/ >decision,...), what would be your best choice?- >  >   a) go Alphac >   b) go Itanium01 >   c) go CHARON-VAX or other emulation solutions. >   d) go to another vendorv >   e) ... (please fill in)n >c >Thanks, >e >D.s >- >--b? >       Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration NewsLetterp@ >       English: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310.pdfA >       French: www.didiermorandi.com/vaxvms2itanium_200310fr.pdfi >eG >didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HP D >     Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ ProgrammationE >   5 avenue Albert Durand 31700 Blagnac France Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287vE >   SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.comg >f >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).hB >Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 >e ---n& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:31:13 -0700o3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> 7 Subject: Re: [survey] why do you still use VAX systems? . Message-ID: <3F9953D1.3080706@Flying-Disk.com>   Didier Morandi wrote:   % > 1. why are you still using VAX/VMS?   7 Applications that cannot be VESTed and which would cost 8 more to rewrite for Alpha than to keep a VAX running for8 many years.   We have the source code, but it is written; in a combination of Macro-32 and VAX C, and makes extensiveg7 use of the layout of the VAX stack.   None of the VAX Cn: modules will compile under DEC C without errors.   Yes, it7 could be ported, but the estimated cost is prohibitive.a  ? > 2. what do you plan to do in ten years, when they are no morer*  > maintained under a HW contract from HP?  @ The same as we have for years: keep enough spare machines on the# shelf for double the expected need.   E > 3. if you would *have* to migrate (no more spare parts, management a0 > decision,...), what would be your best choice?   Easy choice:  Use an emulator.  ) Alan             Remove "REMOVE" to replyh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:06:01 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>c7 Subject: Re: [survey] why do you still use VAX systems?s' Message-ID: <3F995BF9.8070006@MMaz.com>t   Didier Morandi wrote:e  , > A few more questions for the next VV2IMNL:@ > (private answers may be sent to mailto:didier.morandi@free.fr) >n% > 1. why are you still using VAX/VMS?a  B Compliments to Oracle (products that DEC sold them); the costs to A migrate VAX to Alpha licenses have been, and remain to this day, e@ prohibitive for a company our size.  At one point, a negotiated I compromise was obtained but then they reneged when it came to putting it VG on paper and executing it.  I, for one, will never do anything to line  " Ellison's pockets in the future...     >l@ > 2. what do you plan to do in ten years, when they are no more ) > maintained under a HW contract from HP?,  H Not a problem, no more Digital/Compaq/HP VAX hardware or subsystems are  in use, see Question #3.     >oE > 3. if you would *have* to migrate (no more spare parts, management -0 > decision,...), what would be your best choice? >  >   a) go Alphar >   b) go Itaniumo1 >   c) go CHARON-VAX or other emulation solutions   D We've already migrated to Charon-VAX and the ability to run the VAX I dependent software is only limited but Charon's ability to run on future FF Intel/AMD Windows based system.  Because of Question #1, this was our D best choice because the next step to a replacement system will most H likely be without VMS - the apps are not there for a company our size...     >   d) go to another vendors >   e) ... (please fill in)m >H Regards,     Barryi   -- b  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        R   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.590 ************************