1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 31 Oct 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 603       Contents:0 Re: C callable routine for sending mail via SMTP0 Re: C callable routine for sending mail via SMTP$ Re: Concurrent users from Accounting$ Re: Concurrent users from Accounting$ Re: Concurrent users from Accounting$ Re: Concurrent users from Accounting Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!  FD_CLOEXEC ...L Re: LAT ping? or, how do I run a DCPS queue to an LN17PS if LAT doesn't workL Re: LAT ping? or, how do I run a DCPS queue to an LN17PS if LAT doesn't workL Re: LAT ping? or, how do I run a DCPS queue to an LN17PS if LAT doesn't workP Re: LAT ping? or, how do I run a DCPS queue to an LN17PS if LAT doesn't work wor! Logging of outbound TCPIP calls ? ( Re: Not all RZ1DB-VWs are created equal?2 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 5002 Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 Re: Read/Inquire a define/key  RMS File Record Size Re: RMS File Record Size Re: RMS File Record Size Re: RMS File Record Size Re: RMS File Record Size Re: SHO FRU from DCL Re: SHO FRU from DCLP RE: VAX Emulator licensing was( Next VAX/VMS Mig Newsletter on         emulation* VAX/VMS Administrator Contract - Omaha, NE
 VMS questions  Re: VMS questions  Re: VMS questions  Re: VMS questions 8 [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.com< Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.com< Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.com< Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.com< Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.com# Re: [survey] Do you use CHARON-VAX?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:02:11 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG9 Subject: Re: C callable routine for sending mail via SMTP 0 Message-ID: <00A282A9.2CCB47E7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <10Snb.115$s8.2137@news.on.tac.net>, "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> writes: >Sorry about that  > ? > Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2 / >  on a AlphaServer DS25 running OpenVMS V7.3-1   @ Take a look in your documentation for: TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_FROM_FILE   --  L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:59:39 GMT 1 From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jerry.braga@rogers.com> 9 Subject: Re: C callable routine for sending mail via SMTP K Message-ID: <fmjob.118925$3f.52778@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   + thanks to every, I got it to work using the    TCPIP$SMTP_SEND_FROM_FILE   ; I created the c function to accept the envelope parameters: ; from address, from name, to address, to name, subject, body   J The function creates a temporary file from these parameters in the correct smtp format.J The temporary file get passed to the smtp_ funtion, then deletes the file.  I I my case, I then wrapped this function inside Oracle RDB to be able send & mail directly from a database session.    9 "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca> wrote in message ) news:W5Qnb.114$s8.1944@news.on.tac.net... L > Does anyone have a sample of how to call SMTP mail via applications.  This > would be similar to doing the  >  > telnet/port=25 server.com  > helo > mail form: etc.  > G > I would like to call this as a function by passing the email_address,  > subject, body  > K > The problem I seem to have is that mail$routines do not work with message  > body's > 255 chars >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 12:17:41 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Re: Concurrent users from Accounting = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0310301217.41bc61ee@posting.google.com>   f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<PckQLHF86sVv@eisner.encompasserve.org>...< > I'm trying to determine a way to find out concurrent users > 	at a certain time.    > F > 	Question:  Using accounting how to get concurrent users at 10 a.m.? > E > 	I'm lacking the insight today and don't feel like grinding it out.  >  > 	A command file like this: >  > $ !  > $ !  > $ ! , > $       acc_file = "ACCOUNTNG_SEP03.DAT;1" > $       temp_file = "acc.out" ) > $       start_date = "1-sep-2003:07:00" ' > $       end_date = "2-sep-2003:17:00"  > $ !  > $ !  > $ ! ; > $       Accounting      /Since          = 'Start_Date'  - ; >                         /Before         = 'End_Date'    - ; >                         /Type           = Process       - ; >                         /Process        = Interactive   - ; >                         /Output         = 'Temp_File'   - 4 >                         /summary        'acc_file' > B > 	Gives a number that is false in that someone may have logged in? > 	at 1 p.m. and logged out at 4 p.m. so the generated summary   > 	number is inflated. > ? > 	Likewise, someone logging in at 8 a.m. may not log out until  > 	4 p.m. or log out at 9:30.  > > > 	The not so obvious way is to do an accounting/full and lookB > 	at all end times.  If the end time is after 10 a.m. , increment > 	a counter - ugly. > 0 > 	Maybe I'm missing the obvious way, so I post! > 	 > 				Rob   
 how about   
 $ FINGER/FULL    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 13:27:26 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) - Subject: Re: Concurrent users from Accounting 3 Message-ID: <gdlqTVHcyfKP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <oi$KT+0979nj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:c > In article <RIp7VU8XaeVA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: c >> In article <FfVnb.4276$G1.20834@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: L >>> As Peter Weaver said, you can write a program that compares logon/logout
 >>> times.J >>> I have a program that does reporting from the accounting file. ReadingL >>> through this file is not easy from DCL (fields in a record do not have aL >>> fixed length) so if you'd like the program I can send it to you. You can> >>> start from there and keep just the bits that handle dates.L >>> My program is in DEC-Basic and the accounting file's structure is in the >>> starlet library. >>>  >>  > >> 	By the time I wrote it and debugged it I'd have it done in >> 	DCL - ugly as it would be. >>  K >> Accounting/full /since=start_time/before=end_time/type=process/out=a.out  >>   >> 		read each line 5 >> 		When "Process Termination" is reached, read two   >> 		throw away lines + >> 		read next line into variable next_line  >>  ! >> SUBPROCESS Process Termination ! >> ------------------------------ R >> Username:          USER11            UIC:               [AAAA,USER11]          R >> Account:           AAAA              Finish time:       29-OCT-2003 15:39:18.00R >> Process ID:        208C5988          Start time:        29-OCT-2003 08:29:37.29 >>   >> 	Peel Finish time:  >>  / >> $ finish_time = f$edit(next_line,"COMPRESS") / >> $ finish_time = f$element(5," ",finish_time)  >> $ show symbol finish_time! >>   FINISH_TIME = "15:39:18.00"	  >>  G >> 	Compare finish_time to target_time if finish_time .gts. target time  >> 	increment counter. >>  E >> 	I mean it is straight forward and ugly , just wondering if anyone 9 >> 	had something canned, but it doesn't appear that way.  > 5 > Right concept.  But you're sampling the wrong time.  > F > You want to do accounting /FULL /SINCE=TARGET_TIME /BEFORE=right-now > I > That's because accounting records are written when processes terminate,  > not when they start. > C > For every process that has terminated since your target time, you E > want to know if that process had started prior to that target time. $ > If so, you count it.  If not, not. >     C 	Thanks.  That was the insight I needed.  In the following , notice ? 	I am looking for "2003 0".  By looking for 10 a.m., the search E 	"2003 0" matches 04:34 a.m. starts, 09:59 a.m. starts, 00:01 starts  F 	and miss a pathological case.  I also assume they log off by 23:00 - > 	arbitrary, but again catching all but the pathological cases.    	Yes, narrow but suits my needs.   				Rob    $ !  $ ! 3 $       acc_file = "ACCOUNTNG_NODE1_SEP03.DAT," + - .                    "ACCOUNTNG_NODE2_SEP03.DAT"% $       temp_file = "acc.tmp_scratch"  $ !   $ !  Skip Labor Day and weekends $ ! 2 $       days_to_loop_over = "2,3,4,5,8,9,10,11,12" $       element = 0  $ NEXT_LOOP:9 $       daynum = f$element(element,",",days_to_loop_over) % $       if daynum .eqs. "," then exit 0 $       target_time = "''daynum'-sep-2003:10:00"- $       end_time = "''daynum'-sep-2003:23:00" + $       day_mon_year = "''daynum'-sep-2003"  $ !  $ !  $ ! : $       Accounting      /Since          = 'Target_Time'  -9                         /Before         = 'End_Time'    - 9                         /Type           = Process       - 9                         /Process        = Interactive   - 9                         /Output         = 'Temp_File'   - .                         /FULL       'acc_file' $ ! 7 $       assign/user search_stats.tmp_scratch sys$output N $       search acc.tmp_scratch /match=and/out=nla0: "2003 0","Start time"/statI $       pipe                                                            - I         search search_stats.tmp_scratch "Records matched:"              - I         | ( read sys$input a ; define/job tmp_log_tmp &a )      ;       - I         search_results == f$trnlnm("tmp_log_tmp")               ;       -           deassign/job tmp_log_tmp $ ! / $       tmp = f$edit(search_results,"COMPRESS") / $       concurrent_users = f$element(2," ",tmp) ` $       write sys$output "On ''day_mon_year' there were ''concurrent_users' users on at 10 a.m.". $       delete/nolog/noconfirm *.tmp_scratch;* $       element = element + 1  $       goto next_loop   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:27:18 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: Concurrent users from Accounting ) Message-ID: <3FA18221.70CA4B0C@istop.com>   J Since the accounting file layout is documented, write a small program that scans the accounting file.  L For every record where start time is less than the selected time and the endA time is more than the selected time, then increment counter by 1.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 15:51:59 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) - Subject: Re: Concurrent users from Accounting 3 Message-ID: <8$dQ24AiRKiC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <d7791aa1.0310301217.41bc61ee@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:   >  > how about  >  > $ FINGER/FULL   1 	And hopping in the Time Machine once again . . .    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:35:52 -0500 % From: Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net> $ Subject: Re: EV79 CANCELED !!!!!!!!!< Message-ID: <howard-334972.23355230102003@enews.newsguy.com>   In article  = <Hdbob.67533$7B1.23544@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, %  "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   K > Seems to me that when IBM plays Russian Roulette they use a revolver with C > one bullet. When HP plays, they use an automatic with one bullet.   I Well put.  I'd sooner believe IBM anyway.  They're more cluefull, over a   very long period of time.    --  D You are what you eat, therefore, I'm a vegetable!  Cows and chickens and Pop Tarts are too.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 21:04:42 -0800- From: bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede)  Subject: FD_CLOEXEC ... < Message-ID: <8a3b834.0310302104.4bde124f@posting.google.com>   Hi,   5    I am looking for the implementation of following : -   int fcntl(int fildes, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC); !   int fcntl(int fildes, F_GETFD);   ; This has been implemented with  ECO NUMBER:	 ALPACRT09_071.   F But what I wanted know was how to achieved this for systems lower than this ECO number.    I was aprecate any help on this.   Rgds,  Bhushan    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:56:04 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")U Subject: Re: LAT ping? or, how do I run a DCPS queue to an LN17PS if LAT doesn't work 6 Message-ID: <00A28297.8D0366BA@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <301020031043300550%paul.anderson@hp.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:F >In article <00A281B9.C2DEB103@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Alan Winston -= >SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:  > N >> I redid the queue with IP_RawTCP and get the same errors.  _However_, if weM >> pull the network cable out of the printer, we don't get those errors; the  O >> print job stays in "starting" mode, and the queue remains busy, at least for # >> the couple of minutes we try it.  >  >Try either: > G > - setting the LN17 language mode to PostScript (it's probably now set  >   to Auto or PCL)   , Will try this when I can get to the printer.  B > - define the following logical name and stop and start the queue9 >      $ DEFINE /SYSTEM /EXEC DCPS$queuename_NO_SYNC TRUE    This was in place already.   Thanks!    -- Alan    --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:53:47 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")U Subject: Re: LAT ping? or, how do I run a DCPS queue to an LN17PS if LAT doesn't work 6 Message-ID: <00A28297.3B98AFF6@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  o In article <bnqhm3$936$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:  >In article <00A281B9.C2DEB103@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: >>F >>I've done some more work with this and discovered something odd.  ByN >>"can't print to it", I meant that I was getting "Printer Not Ready" messages2 >>from DCPS, which I took to mean "can't connect." >>! >>That was an error on my part.    >>M >>I redid the queue with IP_RawTCP and get the same errors.  _However_, if we L >>pull the network cable out of the printer, we don't get those errors; the N >>print job stays in "starting" mode, and the queue remains busy, at least for" >>the couple of minutes we try it. >>L >>So now I think there isn't a LAT problem or a connection problem, and the N >>built-in print server in the LN17PS is declining to print for my VMS system,* >>while printing fine for Windows systems. >>% >>Does this ring a bell with anybody?  > O >Still too many possibilities. Print a config sheet of the printer, compare the P >settings with your LAT setup. In addition you could move your second printer toN >the place where the problem printer is and connect this second printer. If it& >works you are sure about the network.  K Thanks for this suggestion.  Investigation reveals that our Windows support L group, unable to get the printer working otherwise some months ago, had the O network interface replaced with a newer version which may not have gotten fully   configured.  The saga continues.   > I >By the way: to telnet to such a printer you need to telnet to port 2048.   L I was able to telnet to the network interface on port 23; the Remote ConsoleI Facility port is 2048, but you can apparently get log in okay on port 23.    -- Alan  --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 02:00:44 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")U Subject: Re: LAT ping? or, how do I run a DCPS queue to an LN17PS if LAT doesn't work 6 Message-ID: <00A28298.33A3BFBA@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  V In article <3FA14221.F386AB23@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:   Thanks for these suggestions.    >A couple of ideas:  > K >Is it possible that there might be a smart switch between the host and the @ >"faulty" printer and that they are defined in different VLANs ?   Network people swear not.  >  > 3 >2- TO test connectivity, you can do the following:  > 7 >STOP/QUEUE/RESET queuename		(to release the LTAdevice)  >  >SET HOST/DTE LTAxxx: V >(set host/lat expects a service name, and printers don't broadcast LAT service names)  F $set host/dte $ln131u    ! $ln131u is the logical pointing at the port  % %REM-I-TOQUIT, connection established   - Press Ctrl/\ to quit, Ctrl/@ for command mode       $ %REM-E-PORTRXERR, port receive error" -SYSTEM-F-HANGUP, data set hang-up9 (That was when I tried to type in or cut-and-paste stuff)     6 That would seem like connectivity, though not success.   -- Alan  --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:14:11 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: LAT ping? or, how do I run a DCPS queue to an LN17PS if LAT doesn't work wor ) Message-ID: <3FA1D359.2DA8FBC0@istop.com>   * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:H > $set host/dte $ln131u    ! $ln131u is the logical pointing at the port > ' > %REM-I-TOQUIT, connection established  > / > Press Ctrl/\ to quit, Ctrl/@ for command mode  > & > %REM-E-PORTRXERR, port receive error$ > -SYSTEM-F-HANGUP, data set hang-up  K I get the above if my printer is turned off. There is a fair amount of time * between the connected and hangup messages.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:57:55 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>* Subject: Logging of outbound TCPIP calls ?) Message-ID: <3FA15F28.3D4540C5@istop.com>   D Is it possible to have some usable log of any and all outgoing TCPIPD connections showing which username (or process) generated the call ?  K If one has a machine with inbound telnet access for some users, it would be M useful to be able to log things if a users starts to use my machine to do bad , things onto another machine on the internet.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 16:55:20 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)1 Subject: Re: Not all RZ1DB-VWs are created equal? 3 Message-ID: <1mpios+BUOtA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   : So is there some SCSI page doodly that needs to be set to  make them co-exist?   X In article <vq0b1o6l9js88c@news.supernews.com>, "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes: > Sounds about right > ! > -CA is an Atlas drive (Quantum)  > -CS is a Barracuda (Seagate) >  > DT >  > C > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org> wrote in message / > news:aWtbtw2Xq7QI@eisner.encompasserve.org... C >> I have, what I thought were identical, RZ1DB-VW disks in a BA356 A >> shelf.  The labels on the exterior of the drives are the same, @ >> but when I started seeing errors on all the drives on the bus? >> right after replacing an SBB, I found that all RZ1DB-VWs may  >> _not_ be the same.  >>C >> Seems that the "odd" drive, when stressed by backup, would cause B >> SCSI bus resets, which in turn would cause all the other drivesC >> on the bus to drop into, and quickly out of, mount verify.  Push D >> enough I/Os to the odd drive and eventually all the devices would* >> fall into "mount verify mounted" state. >>A >> When I took at look at the drive info via sys$etc:scsi_info, I , >> found that the odd drive returned this... >>3 >> $!      Product Identification: RZ1DB-CA (C) DEC ' >> $!      Product Revision Level: LYJ0  >>) >> while the good drives returned this...  >>3 >> $!      Product Identification: RZ1DB-CS (C) DEC ' >> $!      Product Revision Level: 0307  >>D >> There were a number of other differences starting with the amountC >> of data returned from the original INQUIRY QIOW.  Unfortunately, > >> I don't know enough about the information the various pagesA >> return to know if something is misconfigured on the odd drive. 2 >> (The info output is about 900 lines per drive.) >>C >> I tried it with a number of -CS and -CA drives and found that it A >> seems that the -CS drives play nice, and the -CA drives don't. A >> So there is something I'm missing, but I'm not sure just what. ) >> Any illumination would be appreciated.  >>D >> P.S. This is on a DS10L running V7.3 with all the latest patches. >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:03:50 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 J Message-ID: <G8eob.126799$h61.126381@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   jlsue wrote:H > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:23:59 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >  >> jlsue wrote: C >>> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:14:53 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 
 >>> wrote: >>>  >>>  >  >>> >> Not to pick on any HP employee, there have been some simpleC >> questions asked in c.o.v. about what your immediate managers say E >> about the lack of promotion of VMS in the marketplace. Surely this @ >> subject come up around the water cooler and in the cafeteria,E >> however the silence here from HP employees is deafening. But I can E >> understand that...after all this is a public forum, and management ' >> might be watching - and probably is.  >> > B > You may be assuming too much about the information flow.  In theF > consulting organization, we have no contact with this information...A > we are total outsiders.  Also, speaking for myself, there is no ? > cafeteria or water cooler around which to talk.  I'm a remote < > employee who spends most time at either customer sites, or > telecommuting from home. > F > Again, I understand how and why there are such interpretations beingG > made about HP and OpenVMS, being on the outside myself.  However some > > of the criticism seems, to me, to be jumping to conclusions.    I I suppose that if I were the CEO/CTO/etc... of a major bank that used VMS J extensively and carly(tm) came to my office and gave us a firm committmentK (with significant financial penalties payable by HP) that VMS is VMS is VMS J && that IA-64 would be more than ready for prime-time when we needed it toE be in 18 months time, I could accept that. And to a large degree that  appears to be HP's plan.  H But as that same CEO/CTO/etc... I would also be looking at what my other$ costs associated with using VMS are.  J Unless I was prepared to offshore outsource my development efforts (one ofK the things that is occuring in the marketplace) for applications that could I provide my bank a competitive advantage, I'd be looking at my graying VMS H workforce and seeing no/little young blood coming out of universities to take their places.  E I'd be looking at steep learning curve costs, and a shrinking pool of I available and qualified talent to choose from. And I'd come back to carly J and say "Why aren't you growing your market for this product? We depend onK having a deep pool of talent to choose from that knows VMS. What steps will G HP be taking this year to ensure that more companies use VMS, that more K developers know VMS, and that we have a larger talent pool to raid when our K existing team of experts retire?"  Unless I got a real good answer to those  questions........   K I have a sneaking feeling that HP is advertising VMS heavily in India right L now to help create a pool of dirt cheap talent. But that alone won't do much% for hardware and VMS sales over here.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:37:34 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 8 Message-ID: <rup2qv89k88i8g207cd2jc18sna8h9i7eb@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:23:59 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote: I >> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:14:53 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >> >>   > L >Not to pick on any HP employee, there have been some simple questions askedM >in c.o.v. about what your immediate managers say about the lack of promotion H >of VMS in the marketplace. Surely this subject come up around the waterK >cooler and in the cafeteria, however the silence here from HP employees is M >deafening. But I can understand that...after all this is a public forum, and 0 >management might be watching - and probably is. >   K You may be assuming too much about the information flow.  In the consulting F organization, we have no contact with this information... we are totalE outsiders.  Also, speaking for myself, there is no cafeteria or water K cooler around which to talk.  I'm a remote employee who spends most time at 2 either customer sites, or telecommuting from home.  I Again, I understand how and why there are such interpretations being made G about HP and OpenVMS, being on the outside myself.  However some of the 5 criticism seems, to me, to be jumping to conclusions.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:17:27 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 ) Message-ID: <3FA171C6.5E62EFDB@istop.com>    John Smith wrote: K > I suppose that if I were the CEO/CTO/etc... of a major bank that used VMS L > extensively and carly(tm) came to my office and gave us a firm committmentM > (with significant financial penalties payable by HP) that VMS is VMS is VMS L > && that IA-64 would be more than ready for prime-time when we needed it toG > be in 18 months time, I could accept that. And to a large degree that  > appears to be HP's plan.  K I would not accept that. I would demand that HP continue to shrink Alpha at H full speeds until IA64 is actually ready for prime time.  In the plan ofM record by Compaq, they made certain assumptions that IA64 would surpass Alpha " by the time EV79 ran out of steam.  M Because those assumptions now appear to have been wrong, instead of inceasing M Alpha's steam/lifetime to extend the bridge until IA64 can catch up, they are M purposefully slowing down Alpha to make IA64 appear a better solution sooner. M But that means that other platforms are also more competitive and when forced G to migrate, one sees more appealing platforms with more application and & better/cleaer commitments from vendor.  N And if HP must pay customers to get IA64, how the hell is HP going to make any	 profits ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:40:48 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 I Message-ID: <kHeob.127182$h61.62040@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > G > And if HP must pay customers to get IA64, how the hell is HP going to  > make any profits ?    I That's what Annual General Meetings are for - to fire the CEO's who screw  up.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:30:06 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 I Message-ID: <ypfob.127463$h61.14178@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > G > And if HP must pay customers to get IA64, how the hell is HP going to  > make any profits ?  K It's axiomatic that Wall Street is usually one of the early adopters of new L technology at the highest prices going. It's also arguable that Bloomberg isL perhaps the dominant force in information services and trading interfaces toJ the investment community worldwide (Thomson and Reuters are huge too), andJ that these organizations place software in the hands of their clients that@ reflect the purchasing and power-hungry habits of their traders.  K So go to see what platforms Bloomberg supports as clients - Windoze on x86,  and Solaris on Sparc.    No IA-64 in sight for any o/s.  L I guess if HP felt that IA-64 was going to be a rocket, they'd be slobberingJ all over the developers at Bloomberg, Reuters, and Thomson, to ensure thatF they had IA-64/VMS versions of their software available when IA-64/VMSE launches. But my contacts at those companies say to me, "What's VMS?"  (Reuters datacenter excepted).    4 http://about.bloomberg.com/blpsupport/sysreqwin.html0 Preferred  Pentium 4 1.7 GHz Processor or faster      Windows 2000 SP2       256 MB RAM       Internal CD-ROM DriveK      Minimum 100 MB of free hard disk space for the BLOOMBERG PROFESSIONAL  software suite'      Excel 2000 / Office 2000 or better A      SoundBlaster 16-bit or compatible audio card with OEM driver *      Graphics adapter with SXGA resolution*      17-inch monitor for better visibility      Internet Explorer 6.      Available USB slot to support BSAT device1      Network adapter with TCP/IP services enabled G      Free PCI slot for the Matrox G200 dual VGA Adapter (for Flat Panel  setups) 1      HP PCL 5 printer language compatible printer       5 http://about.bloomberg.com/blpsupport/sysrequnix.html  System Requirements for Unix   Supported Unix PlatformsI 1. The SUN Solaris workstation is the required UNIX platform on which the E Bloomberg PROFESSIONAL may be executed. The following are the minimum A hardware and software requirements for the Bloomberg PROFESSIONAL    Supported Sun WorkstationsI 1. All UltraSparc workstations (e.g., Ultrasparc 1, 2, 4, 10, Blade1000).   ' Supported Sun Solaris Operating Systems I 1. Solaris 2.6, patch version 105591-12 or later (e.g., 105591-13, etc.). I 2. Solaris 2.7, patch version 106327-11 or later (e.g., 106327-12, etc.). I 3. Solaris 2.8, patch version 108434-04 or later (e.g., 108434-05, etc.). I 4. Solaris 2.9, patch version 108434-04 or later (e.g., 108434-05, etc.).    Recommended Window Managers  1. CDE and Motif.        begin 666 red_dotted_arrow.gif= M1TE&.#EA#0`,`( ``/___YD``"'Y! ``````+ `````-``P```(/A(^IR^T/  +`C1R5G97GCP5`#L`  `  end    begin 666 registered.gif= M1TE&.#EA"P`-`( ``````/___R'Y! ``````+ `````+``T```(8C(^IRQT`  4@9*'&AEO?=IBJ'7B1B*1Y1P%`#L`  `  end    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:33:22 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ; Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 ISV application count now over 500 ' Message-ID: <3FA1C9F2.7347BEC4@fsi.net>    jlsue wrote: > K > Again, I understand how and why there are such interpretations being made I > about HP and OpenVMS, being on the outside myself.  However some of the 7 > criticism seems, to me, to be jumping to conclusions.    "jumping to conclusions".   F "jumping to conclusions"???!!! How many more decades of VMS stagnationE (we've seen two already), broken promises, outright lies, ... must we @ endure before we are responding to prevailing conditions and not "jumping"???!!!   G I feel myself about to do a Bill Todd at this point, so I'd damned well 1 better shutup before I say something I'll regret.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:37:28 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: Read/Inquire a define/key' Message-ID: <3FA1CAE8.D701D7E4@fsi.net>   
 DXP wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3FA06D54.7E27D6BC@fsi.net>... > > DXP wrote: > > >  > > > Greetings Gurus  > > > B > > > I'm having a spot of bother with the following bit of DCL... > > I > > It's been that way for as long I can remember. It's a security thing, I > > mostly. Captive accounts cannot use INQUIRE because they can't access L > > command level, and INQUIRE grants access that conflicts with the idea of > > Captive accounts.o > @ > Okay, I understand the security thing with INQUIRE and captiveG > accounts but if I'm trying to use the above code under a fully priv'd H > account, how does this affect me? And also, as READ is the recommendedH > alternative to INQUIRE so shouldn't the code work with READ as opposed
 > to INQUIRE?E  F Actually, it's been discussed here and is an item on my DCL wish list.  " Where is our resident DCL guru...?   -- g David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:04:58 -0700 8 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> Subject: RMS File Record Sizee1 Message-ID: <eWfob.423$Tn6.30218@news.uswest.net>e  L In an indexed RMS file, is there any performance benefit of using a power ofK 2 (128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.) record size?  Our system is Alpha OpenVMS 7.3    Thanks,  Mike.l   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 16:27:01 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i! Subject: Re: RMS File Record Size 3 Message-ID: <dfc2JoEhwIDM@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  l In article <eWfob.423$Tn6.30218@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes:N > In an indexed RMS file, is there any performance benefit of using a power ofM > 2 (128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.) record size?  Our system is Alpha OpenVMS 7.3n  H Depending on your bucket size, wasted space might be avoided by choosing7 certain record sizes for your fixed length record file.U  H Presumably if you meant variable length records, you would have used the term "maximum record size"..   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:57:48 -0500s* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: RMS File Record Size-2 Message-ID: <QZ-dnVnM3ModODyiRVn-sg@metrocast.net>  C "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in messagel+ news:eWfob.423$Tn6.30218@news.uswest.net...-K > In an indexed RMS file, is there any performance benefit of using a powers ofI > 2 (128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.) record size?  Our system is Alpha OpenVMSa 7.3    The short answer is 'no'.r  K A longer answer would explain that while RMS buckets are always an integralVK number of (512-byte) disk blocks, they contain overhead - hence some number H *other than* a power of 2 will usually result in optimal bucket-filling.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 21:18:17 -08005 From: hein_news@eps.zko.dec.com (Hein van den Heuvel)0! Subject: Re: RMS File Record Size = Message-ID: <e02b550f.0310302118.781c54f4@posting.google.com>n  q "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-.@.-alum-mit-edu-nospam> wrote in message news:<eWfob.423$Tn6.30218@news.uswest.net>...tN > In an indexed RMS file, is there any performance benefit of using a power ofM > 2 (128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.) record size?  Our system is Alpha OpenVMS 7.3  > 	 > Thanks,e > Mike.,  A NO. For optimal performance you should simply make the records as ? short as you can without requiring 'extention' records. If youreF applications deals with object of indetermined length, that need to beF stored an indexed file, then you should select a large 'chunk' size to( minimize the records count / per object.2 The VAX(DEC)notes application uses such technique.@ The VAXmail application opted for external files to hold messageE objects larger then a given size (1500 byte, which is too small these  days).  F 'nice' record sizes like you mention are only useful in 'binary buddy'D storage systems. RMS just packs records tightly in a bucket, with 15F bytes overhead/bucket and 9 - 13 bytes overhead per record. So if yourF bucket is 2 blocks (1024 bytes), and you picked a 512 byte records youD just made sure you could never store 2 records and always waste just$ about a whole record worth of space.  C Furthermore... the default setting in RMS is to use Record data andoB key compression, so your 512 bytes record may become 20 bytes (allC spaces with 255 byte key) or 525 bytes (no repeating characters: nog8 compression) and will typically take up about 300 bytes.  F An other reason folks pick 'nice' numbers for object sizes is if thereF is a hierarchy of objects that will divide nicer. For example VM pagesE are mapped by a page table entries. If a page table entry is 4 bytes, C then a (8192 byte) page of pagetable entries will hold 2048. So you E might be tempted to select 2048 pages, not 2050 which would require a C second pagetable page and possibly an additional level in the tree. 2 Avoiding that level would be good, but that's all.F If you need 2050, you need 2050, no ifs or buts. While if you know youD need only 2000, yeah specifying 2048 would not hurt, but it will not really help either.   B Anyway, RMS has no structure like that either, no bitmap of recordF chunks or whatever, no hash stride, only the 256 byte compression scanB has a magic number embedded, but I don't see how you could exploid that.   C If you need futher advise in this matter, then please explain to uss how comeF you are at freedom to choose a record size in the first place!? If youF need to set an arbetrary limit... don't!.. or at least try to avoid itD best you can using a maximum bucketsize (63) and unspecified maximum record size: MRS=0.e   Hope this helps, Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:43:46 -0500b* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>! Subject: Re: RMS File Record Size3) Message-ID: <3FA1F65D.9B67838A@istop.com>r   Hein van den Heuvel wrote:B > The VAXmail application opted for external files to hold messageG > objects larger then a given size (1500 byte, which is too small these  > days).  N How feasable would it be to increase that size in an upcoming version of VMS ?B Woudl it require a convert/fdl of all mail.mai files on a system ?  F > storage systems. RMS just packs records tightly in a bucket, with 15= > bytes overhead/bucket and 9 - 13 bytes overhead per record.a  K If one uses EDIT/FDL to create an indexed file, do the scripts take care of H selecting the right buffer sizes that include any overhead on top of the specified record sizes ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:36:52 GMTY, From: Mark Jilson <jilly@clarityconnect.com> Subject: Re: SHO FRU from DCLy@ Message-ID: <90d1096dae0856c9d7033349fd7ec172@news.teranews.com>   John Brandon wrote:r  K > I recall a number of threads about retrieving boot defaults and such from  > DCL using a LEXICAL. > 3 > Was there one for retrieving the FRU information?= >   I Since you are runing V7.3-1 IIRC, you can use SDA>CLUE FRU and the SystemTG Event Analyzer (have to have it installed though) to get the FRU table.t   $ ANA/SYSTEM CLUE FRU EXIT, $ WSEA X FRU CLUE$FRU.SYS OUTTEXT {file.ext}     --- C Jilly - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY H       - jilly@clarityconnect.com                      - Brett Bodine fanH       - Mark.Jilson@hp.com                            - since 1975 or soH       - http://www.jilly.baka.com           - http://www.brettbodine.com   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 12:14:11 -0800= From: robert.fairfield@verizonwireless.com (Robert Fairfield)l Subject: Re: SHO FRU from DCL=< Message-ID: <4b4254e.0310301214.3a80ccff@posting.google.com>   John,h   Try:  , $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETENVIRONMENT("value")  = where "value" has at least 16 vatiables such as boot_osflags,y boot_file, auto_action, etc.  
 Bob Fairfielda    a brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote in message news:<03103009272609@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>...uO > I recall a number of threads about retrieving boot defaults and such from DCL  > using a LEXICAL. > 3 > Was there one for retrieving the FRU information?  >  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:03:28 -0800a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> Y Subject: RE: VAX Emulator licensing was( Next VAX/VMS Mig Newsletter on         emulation 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEMMIFAA.tom@kednos.com>0  A This is a more restrictive interpretation than Didier's, which ifo@ reaffirmed implies his survey can be reduced to one emulator.  ID suppose this narrow interpretation would apply to Hobbyists as well.  E I think it is somewhat out of date with the times,  Think of how many B PC's are out there and they all run the same software from a largeD variety of manufacturers.  Not sure why HP would want to limit theirC market opportunities, but then it isn't the first time.  The phrase H "restraint of Trade"  comes to mind, but then that probably only appliesI to someone with significant market share.  Of course, in this market they  are the only game.   >-----Original Message----- : >From: Wilm Boerhout [mailto:w.boerhoutOLD@PAINTplanet.nl]) >Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:58 AMT >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComH >Subject: Re: VAX Emulator licensing was( Next VAX/VMS Mig Newsletter on> >emulation: call for papers) call for papers) call for papers) >  > H >Hmmm... if the original answer from HP is backed by their lawyers, read >again, and read carefully.  >FI >As mentioned before, a license has to do with granting rights to use thesB >software under certain circumstances. The exact circumstances areF >described in the license documents by the owner of the software. If aB >license is granted to run VMS on CHARON-VAX on HP hardware, it isH >exactly that. Read the fine print in various (OpenVMS) SPDs. If you runG >VMS on CHARON-VAX on a Dell, you are in violation of the terms of HP'smI >transfer license and the original VMS license. Why? Because they say so.  > G >Software support on these platforms is a related, but separate matter.=F >If you have a license to run, you are elegible for voluntary software; >support contracts. If you don't have a license, see above.e >n >Wilm Boerhout >VX Company, >The Netherlands >l) >(not a lawyer, but suspicious by nature)- >- >Didier Morandi wrote: >> Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote:1 >>L >>>> 2  You can only run this license on an HP produced computer, you can't,F >>>>   for eaxmple, run it on a Dell that you might have lying around. >>>> >>>>L >>> Limited in it's correctness.  If you wish to retain software support, it9 >>> must be a HP computer, otherwise you are on your own.e >> >>H >> Man, this is true. First of all, you CAN run it on any WINTEL system,< >> but you also MAY do so. What will drop is the HP support. >> >> Thanks, Barry.r >> >> D.@ >> >s >--. >Wilm Boerhout >u >w.boerhoutOLD@PAINTplanet.nlm) >   (remove OLD PAINT from reply address)n >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.3; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).CB >Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003 >i --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 10/22/2003j   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 11:44:04 -0800) From: chrissisaac@yahoo.com (Chris Isaac)H3 Subject: VAX/VMS Administrator Contract - Omaha, NE.= Message-ID: <b3a275f0.0310301144.4c818ba1@posting.google.com>   E Hall Kinion is seeking a VAX/VMS System Administrator for a contract,l' contract-to-hire position in Omaha, NE.wF CCPDSR (Command Center Processing and Display System Replacement,PDSN,4 or,STRATCOM Unique System experience is a huge plus.@ Must have 3-5+ years experience with VAX/VMS OS, preferably as a Systems Administrator.  7 Must be able to obtain a Top Secret Security Clearance.2   Please forward your resume to  Hall Kinion & Associates cisaac@hallkinion.comE  
 Sincerely, Chris Isaac8
 Sr. Recruiterb Hall Kiniong   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 12:30:36 -0800) From: chrissisaac@yahoo.com (Chris Isaac)F Subject: VMS questions= Message-ID: <b3a275f0.0310301230.2d8f58c3@posting.google.com>   P Any good websites to source individuals with VAX/VMS administration backgrounds?& I'm a recruiter looking for some help. Thanks,e Chris Isaact   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 14:48:14 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)S Subject: Re: VMS questions3 Message-ID: <EkmqaE$+zLLE@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  i In article <b3a275f0.0310301230.2d8f58c3@posting.google.com>, chrissisaac@yahoo.com (Chris Isaac) writes:SR > Any good websites to source individuals with VAX/VMS administration backgrounds?( > I'm a recruiter looking for some help.  	 	Resumes:2  * http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?f=3   	Job Listings:  * http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?f=2   				Robr   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:20:11 GMT 2 From: "Ken Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com> Subject: Re: VMS questions> Message-ID: <%Uhob.33741$fl1.1520802@twister.southeast.rr.com>  ! Thanks Rob.  Appreciate that.  :)n   Ken    -- Kenneth Farmer  <><  OpenVMS.org  |  dcl.OpenVMS.org       8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:EkmqaE$+zLLE@eisner.encompasserve.org....? > In article <b3a275f0.0310301230.2d8f58c3@posting.google.com>,q+ chrissisaac@yahoo.com (Chris Isaac) writes:eG > > Any good websites to source individuals with VAX/VMS administration  backgrounds?* > > I'm a recruiter looking for some help. >=
 > Resumes: >=, > http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?f=3 >T > Job Listings:l >e, > http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?f=2 >o > Rob0 >6   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:49:40 -0600C1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>= Subject: Re: VMS questions& Message-ID: <3FA1CDC4.7BAB914@fsi.net>   Chris Isaac wrote: > R > Any good websites to source individuals with VAX/VMS administration backgrounds?( > I'm a recruiter looking for some help.	 > Thanks,u
 > Chris Isaact  E In the U.S., you might want to consider (in addition to openvms.org):C   MonsterD ComputerJobs Dice   -- 6 David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/R   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:22:47 +0100r" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>A Subject: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.comt2 Message-ID: <3fa18f3c$0$229$636a55ce@news.free.fr>  ? Looking for info, I just went to my favourite OpenVMS pages on  L http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms when a window suddenly popped up on my M$ J screen and a chat session started, powered by LivePerson. Here is the log:   ---e. Please wait for an HP Sales Expert to respond.9 Welcome to HP! My name is Gene. How can I help you today.a> you: Hello Gene. Are you an OPS5 program or a real person? :-)2 Gene: I'm real, although I've been called. . . lol Gene: yes, I'm realp  Gene: just making a little funny Gene: how can I help youQ you: Good. So I leave you. I'm busy and you will be too. This game is nice. Have h! a good day. Cheers from Toulouse.s you: Didieri6 Gene: Thank you for visiting hp.com. Have a Great Day!5 Chat session has been terminated by the Sales Expert.s ---    Experimented that before?t   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:38:14 -0500 + From: Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>iE Subject: Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.comg+ Message-ID: <3FA192BC.354D7518@anatomy.org>a   Didier Morandi wrote:e@ > Looking for info, I just went to my favourite OpenVMS pages onM > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms when a window suddenly popped up on my M$iL > screen and a chat session started, powered by LivePerson. Here is the log:  ; Did you request this, or was this totally forced onto you ?,   > ---c0 > Please wait for an HP Sales Expert to respond.; > Welcome to HP! My name is Gene. How can I help you today.=  G Since you came from France, they should have answered to you in french.D  7 You should have asked where he was physically located. L  M In the dying days of Ansett (airline in australia) I recall getting a similar L "live person", but I had pressed the button to get it. It was a reservationsG agent that was very knowledgeable with the items Anset was selling (air,	 travel). 3  F I have to wonder how these HP sales agent are knowledgeable about HP's products such as Alpha and VMS.L  G Was this a JAVA applet, or some proprietary microsoft messaging thing ?e   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 17:05:20 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)pE Subject: Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.com 3 Message-ID: <$HQ0YJYh9wA9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3fa18f3c$0$229$636a55ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:eA > Looking for info, I just went to my favourite OpenVMS pages on nN > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms when a window suddenly popped up on my M$  > screen   > Experimented that before?x  & No, windows only appear on my command.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Oct 2003 17:07:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)hE Subject: Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.comt3 Message-ID: <ZkJCXPEPzWyr@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  Y In article <3FA192BC.354D7518@anatomy.org>, Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> writes:t > Didier Morandi wrote:hA >> Looking for info, I just went to my favourite OpenVMS pages on-N >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms when a window suddenly popped up on my M$M >> screen and a chat session started, powered by LivePerson. Here is the log:l > = > Did you request this, or was this totally forced onto you ?   G I believe he _permitted_ it by enabling JavaScript or some other mobile= code vector.  H > I have to wonder how these HP sales agent are knowledgeable about HP's! > products such as Alpha and VMS.c  H It would not hurt for those of you with JavaScript enabled to train them: (except on matters of security and privacy, of course :-).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:34:40 -0500W) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>tE Subject: Re: [OT/FUN] HP live chat popped up when browsing www.hp.com 9 Message-ID: <lehob.8292$Tf.1001781@news20.bellglobal.com>\  / "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> wrote in messageR, news:3fa18f3c$0$229$636a55ce@news.free.fr...@ > Looking for info, I just went to my favourite OpenVMS pages onM > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms when a window suddenly popped up on my M$ L > screen and a chat session started, powered by LivePerson. Here is the log: >F > ---<0 > Please wait for an HP Sales Expert to respond.; > Welcome to HP! My name is Gene. How can I help you today.m@ > you: Hello Gene. Are you an OPS5 program or a real person? :-)4 > Gene: I'm real, although I've been called. . . lol > Gene: yes, I'm real?" > Gene: just making a little funny > Gene: how can I help youM > you: Good. So I leave you. I'm busy and you will be too. This game is nice.a Have# > a good day. Cheers from Toulouse.n
 > you: Didiere8 > Gene: Thank you for visiting hp.com. Have a Great Day!7 > Chat session has been terminated by the Sales Expert.a > ---r >  > Experimented that before?s >e > D. >eE I've experienced this at the Bell Canada web site. Perhaps it's a newh marketing tool?e  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,o Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:24:54 -0800e3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>a, Subject: Re: [survey] Do you use CHARON-VAX?. Message-ID: <3FA17396.3030701@Flying-Disk.com>   Didier Morandi wrote:eK > Last "tour de table" before the closing of the next issue of the VAX/VMS o1 > to Itanium Migration News letter, on emulation.e > L > Q1. Do/did you use CHARON-VAX (any version, on Alpha or PC) in production?  9 No.   I was interested in it as a solution for a client'sS= problem, but lost interest when I couldn't find a price list. @ If a price list were on the web site, I would take another look.E The next thing I would look for would be down-loadable documentation.    Alan   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.603 ************************