1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 02 Sep 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 486       Contents:) Re: 7.3-2 SDK (was: The vmsnet hierarchy)  Re: ??==Delete key Re: ??==Delete key" Re: ??==Delete key only backspacesM Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal M Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal M Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal M Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal M Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal M Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal M Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal P Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal Te) Announcing September 9th WRUG LUG meeting  backup
 Re: backup
 Re: backup
 RE: backup
 Re: backup
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 Re: backup  Re: Cleaning up license database/ Re: DCL: Getting a counter to count from 9 to A / Re: DCL: Getting a counter to count from 9 to A / Re: DCL: Getting a counter to count from 9 to A ; dynamic volume expansion and different-sized shadow members 5 Re: HELP: Byte Record Too Large For Users Buffer.....  Re: HSZTERM  HSZTERM and HSZ22 ?  Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security OpenVMS Training comes home  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates ' Re: Running app on each node in cluster  Re: Serial console Re: Serial console Re: Serial console Re: Serial console  Re: Shadowing question: NOMASTER  Re: Shadowing question: NOMASTER  Re: Shadowing question: NOMASTER Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: The vmsnet hierarchy Re: The vmsnet hierarchy1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 10:13:05 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: 7.3-2 SDK (was: The vmsnet hierarchy)3 Message-ID: <Fvf1D1RM+lLg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <WPAitMWhYGhy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   B >    Unfortunately both the multinet and the field test groups areH >    sometimes plagued by these file dumps.  But both are also in active	 >    use.   I I have been looking in the Field Test group for an indication that anyone I has received the 7.3-2 SDK and seen nothing.  I found out Friday that the J SDKs _had_ shipped but the representative to whom I had returned to faulty3 shipment of a 7.3-1 SDK had never followed through.   6 When did people get their 7.3-2 SDK orders fulfilled ?   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:18:53 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: ??==Delete key ; Message-ID: <01L075OHJLEUAMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G > The F12 key does not send a back space to the host it send <CSI>24~.  J > The VMS terminal driver treates that as a CTRL-H.  When the new terminalJ > driver ships where CTRL-H is treated a <DEL> this will still send you to > the strart of a line.   H The F10, F11 and F12 keys, IIRC, had labels like ESC, LF and BS on some E DEC keyboards.  Is it correct that they NEVER sent the corresponding  I sequences (ASCII codes) but always sent CSI-24 or whatever, whereas some  G VMS applications (terminal driver, editors) treated these sequences as  / if they were the corresponding ASCII sequences?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 16:33:16 GMT / From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>  Subject: Re: ??==Delete key ) Message-ID: <bj2goc$gl$1@news1.radix.net>   : Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:H >> The F12 key does not send a back space to the host it send <CSI>24~. K >> The VMS terminal driver treates that as a CTRL-H.  When the new terminal K >> driver ships where CTRL-H is treated a <DEL> this will still send you to  >> the strart of a line.    J > The F10, F11 and F12 keys, IIRC, had labels like ESC, LF and BS on some G > DEC keyboards.  Is it correct that they NEVER sent the corresponding  K > sequences (ASCII codes) but always sent CSI-24 or whatever, whereas some  I > VMS applications (terminal driver, editors) treated these sequences as  1 > if they were the corresponding ASCII sequences?   I not according to the documentation (it says that in vt100/vt52 modes, the - vt220 sends ESC, LF, BS as you would expect).    --  4 Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@his.com> http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:12:03 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> + Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces ; Message-ID: <01L077F4XXUQAMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > In the beginning, there was the punchtape.  If you made a mistake, thereE > was no way to unpunch the holes - so some clever person devised the G > method of backspace and DELETE (255) which punched all 7 holes (7-bit C > ASCII) and would then be interpreted as "ignore this character".    @ A side note: In older versions of FORTRAN, spaces are completelyF ignored.  The reason for this is that a space corresponds to NO holes H punched.  If one made a mistake, one could then tape it back up, but it & would be too dangerous to re-punch it.  C > As time went on, there was a split between those who chose to use J > BACKSPACE (8) as meaning "move back a character and then rubout whateverJ > was there" and those who used DELETE (255) as meaning the same thing... J > that is "rubout".  DEC OS's, and DEC terminals from probably the VT05 onH > - used DELETE (255) as rubout (from I think the VT200 onward you couldH > select DELETE or BACKSPACE in the setup menu).  UNIX, and then DOS and) > Windows chose BACKSPACE (8) as rubout.    D Presumably, the various ASCII values had functions defined for them G before this time.  What were the original definitions of BACKSPACE and   DELETE.   + By the way, if you have FORTRAN installed,    '    $ HELP FORTRAN Character_Sets ASCII    H brings up a nice table and is even automatically formatted properly and * in the right place for a 24-line terminal.  - By the way, shouldn't DEL be 127 and not 255?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 07:49:31 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) V Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal3 Message-ID: <41xGQ5uHEhku@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <BamqLA0eLdnw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: ^ > In article <300820031658201138%elliott@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> writes:F >> In article <cCzfyGpm++oO@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Larry Kilgallen! >> <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  > K >>> Besides, I am using an Apple Keyboard (Model M0116) which does not have D >>> any F1-F<whatever> keys, only PF1-PF4, labeled <clear>, =, /, *. >>  F >> Well that's a bit of a showstopper. Too many different keyboards no >> matter where you go.  > D > More recent Apple keyboards have those useless F1-f<whatever> keysB > (you point out a substitution of F1-F4 for PF1-PF4, but they are@ > all the way at the other end of the keyboard - not right for a > touch typist.)  G    Just try finding F17 - F20.  My TPU section has a definition for F17 I    and the other three are the ones I habitually use for learn sequences.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 07:41:04 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) V Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal3 Message-ID: <l6lrJdZtb1CN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <aus-1BD7BF.21233129082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Hans Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:5 > In article <GmoYK4f4Sy8N@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? >  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  >  > ... The only optionsD >>    you have are to control it at the client side or to use an X11D >>    based terminal emulator which will allow the VMS system to use >>    xmodmap. >>   > K > But Bob - why does the delete key work in non-X11 terminal programs such  - > as VersaTerm and Kermit - without xmodmap?    C    Because when you use the delete key on those clients, the client )    sends a proper ASCII delete character.   J > We've used VersaTerm on pre-X MacOS since the beginning of Mac (almost) K > and never had to set any extra options in VMS. Unfortunately, Synergy is  " > not porting VersaTerm to MacOSX.  C    I've mostly used NCSA telnet for years, NCSA dropped Mac a while F    back.  Later I tried BetterTelnet, which I think is a FAT with OS XH    support.  Nowdays I'm using NiftyTelnet which has SSH built in and isJ    also built for OS X.  I have no problems with the delete key on any of     them.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 07:44:42 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) V Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal3 Message-ID: <AdZnkosCLJFW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <G2S3b.3784$r5.534@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:G > As a side note, we are adding a new set terminal command and terminal L > attribute so that the user can select BACKSPACE == DELETE.  That is, treatL > backspace (^H) as a rubout as well as delete as a rubout.  I think it's inI > V7.3-2, I know it will be in the IA64 release (dunno if it made it into K > 7.3-2 offhand).  The function key to get to the start of the current line 6 > will still work normally even when this mode is set.      Hallelujah!  At long last.     L    But which function key is that?  My LK401 labels F12 as (BS) which works G    in DCL and TPU, but not at the ANU news prompt.  Is there something  &    anunews is doing that disables F12?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 07:46:33 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) V Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal3 Message-ID: <3AxfuxTMVbzD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <aus-C6E38B.14353630082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Hans Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:  G > Fred, another thought - What code sequence does the Terminal have to  K > send in order to have the delete key work properly on the VMS host? If I  I > pass this code on to the MacTelnet or iTerm/Mac folks, perhaps someone  1 > will take pity on us and add this as an option.   A    The key needs to send an ASCII delete character.  The same bit -    pattern as decimal 127, octal 177, hex 7F.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:10:30 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> V Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal2 Message-ID: <Wh35b.3869$au4.3771@news.cpqcorp.net>  6 "Hans Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote in message< news:aus-1381C3.08261330082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de...2 > In article <G2S3b.3784$r5.534@news.cpqcorp.net>,9 >  "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  > I > > As a side note, we are adding a new set terminal command and terminal H > > attribute so that the user can select BACKSPACE == DELETE.  That is, treat K > > backspace (^H) as a rubout as well as delete as a rubout.  I think it's  inK > > V7.3-2, I know it will be in the IA64 release (dunno if it made it into H > > 7.3-2 offhand).  The function key to get to the start of the current line8 > > will still work normally even when this mode is set. >  > . > Fred, that's both interesting and good news. > 9 > Is there (or will there be) a patch for Open VMS 7.2-1?   J No.  V7.2-x is getting pretty long-in-the-tooth.  At some point we have toH focus energy on moving forward and not trying to extend functionality toG previous versions - you can't imagine how complicated the build streams I become with varients.  I highly suggest that everyone who can, use V7.3-1 D (and soon -2).  Lots of good stuff in it, including many performance
 enhancements.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:21:54 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> V Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal1 Message-ID: <Cs35b.3871$TZ3.296@news.cpqcorp.net>   L In the beginning, there was the punchtape.  If you made a mistake, there wasI no way to unpunch the holes - so some clever person devised the method of L backspace and DELETE (255) which punched all 7 holes (7-bit ASCII) and would/ then be interpreted as "ignore this character".   K As time went on, there was a split between those who chose to use BACKSPACE I (8) as meaning "move back a character and then rubout whatever was there" E and those who used DELETE (255) as meaning the same thing...  that is G "rubout".  DEC OS's, and DEC terminals from probably the VT05 on - used F DELETE (255) as rubout (from I think the VT200 onward you could selectG DELETE or BACKSPACE in the setup menu).  UNIX, and then DOS and Windows  chose BACKSPACE (8) as rubout.  I Along the way, someone looking for shortcuts decided to use ^H (8 -- i.e. I BACKSPACE) to mean "backspace to the start of the line" on VMS.  Probably # inappropriate - but that's history.   L To be a little more compatable - especially since the IPF console (EFI) usesG BACKSPACE as rubout - we will provide a way to have the terminal driver H convert the BACKSPACE (8) value into the DELETE (255) value - which willI transparently make VMS compatable with terminals and emulators which send  BACKSPACE instead of DELELE.  J F12 will still generate a BACKSPACE (8, ^H) to get to the beginning of the line.   ! The default will remain the same.   6 "Hans Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote in message< news:aus-C6E38B.14353630082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de...D > In article <aus-1381C3.08261330082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>,- >  Hans Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote:  > 4 > > In article <G2S3b.3784$r5.534@news.cpqcorp.net>,; > >  "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  > > K > > > As a side note, we are adding a new set terminal command and terminal J > > > attribute so that the user can select BACKSPACE == DELETE.  That is, treat H > > > backspace (^H) as a rubout as well as delete as a rubout.  I think it's in H > > > V7.3-2, I know it will be in the IA64 release (dunno if it made it intoJ > > > 7.3-2 offhand).  The function key to get to the start of the current line: > > > will still work normally even when this mode is set. > > F > Fred, another thought - What code sequence does the Terminal have toJ > send in order to have the delete key work properly on the VMS host? If IH > pass this code on to the MacTelnet or iTerm/Mac folks, perhaps someone1 > will take pity on us and add this as an option.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:22:56 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> V Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal2 Message-ID: <At35b.3872$wv4.3109@news.cpqcorp.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:Cs35b.3871$TZ3.296@news.cpqcorp.net...   H > backspace and DELETE (255) which punched all 7 holes (7-bit ASCII) and would   ) Ooops.  Asleep at the wheel.  127 not 255    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:46:49 GMT 1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom> Y Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal Te + Message-ID: <3F54BB3B.8D63A644@hp.com.doom>   a     The F12 key does not send a back space to the host it send <CSI>24~.  The VMS terminal driver ] treates that as a CTRL-H.  When the new terminal driver ships where CTRL-H is treated a <DEL> 1 this will still send you to the strart of a line.      Forrest    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:18:43 GMT / From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com> 2 Subject: Announcing September 9th WRUG LUG meeting- Message-ID: <3F54B4D4.EA0F1A79@ix.netcom.com>    . 0                 Announcing September 9th Meeting-                   Western Reserve Users Group .                  Local User Group of Encompass                   1               (Change in place, but regular time) 6          (Please RSVP so we can get a count for pizza)    Topic: Windows 2003   B   This presentation on  Windows 2003 will touch on such topics as:  8     * What is Microsoft's target market for Windows 2003     * new features     * reliability      * security     * terminal services 	     * IIS      * 64 bit advantages     Speaker: Adam Ryncarz, Microsoft  C   Adam Ryncarz is a senior program consultant with Microsoft.  Adam D   specializes is Active Directory and other infrastructure projects C   as well as a strong interest in security.  Adam has managed many  @   large project deployments in the Windows infrastructure area.    Topic: About HP World 2003  C   A panel of LUG members who attended HP World 2003 in Atlanta will A   relate their experiences and impressions of the meeting.  There =   will be some pointers to written material from the meeting.    Speakers: Various    Date:     Tuesday, September 9, 2003  Time:     4:00 to 7:00 PM 
 Location: )    (across the street from regular place) 4    Park Center Plaza II                   <-- change    Lower Level conference room4    6150 Oak Tree Blvd.                    <-- change    Independence, OH 44131 ;    (Call Rich's cell phone at 412-999-6427 if you get lost)  Map:   http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&ed=fHlg.Op_0Tp8cAk9FEnXFaJqwLrgHNEVHj2ZCgpRheC5zhYBRpY17CQ9e.8MEG4Q_RbNxpVrgvTpiJ6tD1A.32U6&csz=Independence,+OH+44131-6927&country=us&cs=9&name=&desc=&poititle=&poi=&uz=44131&ds=n&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=9&ne Directions: C    From the area of the interchange of I-480 and I-77, go south and !    take the Rockside Road exit.    >    At the bottom of the ramp, turn right (west) on Rockside.   L    Go west two blocks (second light); turn left (south) on Oak Tree Blvd.     See the LUG's web page at   %    http://eisner.decus.org/lugs/wrug/       Future meetings:    November 11, 2003    January 13, 2004     March 9, 2004    May 11, 2004    Joe H. Gallagher WRUG LUG Chair0 dtrwiz at ix dot netcom dot com                   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 06:15:27 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: backup 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOECDHOAA.tom@kednos.com>   < In backing up disks, if I put in a new tape in response to a> request to mount a particular tape, typically get a message as  $ Request 81, from user SYSTEM on ODIND %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 1 on _ODIN$MKA500 was not mounted because+  its label does not match the one requested 2  specify option (QUIT, NEW tape or OVERWRITE tape)  F The only way to satisfy this request is to use OVERWRITE.  Why doesn't	 NEW work?  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:50:15 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: backup ' Message-ID: <3F54A017.A30FAA6D@aaa.com>    Check HELP  /MESS MOUNTERR :  
  User Action: =   At this point, the Backup utility allows you to either quit @   the operation, overwrite the volume label and continue, or put=   a new volume in the drive and continue processing. To abort >   the operation, enter the QUIT command at the BACKUP> prompt.<   To overwrite information in the volume header and continue@   processing, enter the OVERWRITE command at the BACKUP> prompt.;   To restart the operation with a new volume, enter the NEW >   command at the BACKUP> prompt. If the QUIT or NEW command is@   chosen, the Backup utility automatically dismounts the volume.    $ So, in what way doesn't "NEW" work ?   Best Regards	 Jan-Erik.      Tom Linden wrote:  > > > In backing up disks, if I put in a new tape in response to a@ > request to mount a particular tape, typically get a message as > & > Request 81, from user SYSTEM on ODINF > %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 1 on _ODIN$MKA500 was not mounted because- >  its label does not match the one requested 4 >  specify option (QUIT, NEW tape or OVERWRITE tape) > H > The only way to satisfy this request is to use OVERWRITE.  Why doesn't > NEW work?  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:13:19 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: backup - Message-ID: <3F546D3F.8084.DF99FD6@localhost>   & > Request 81, from user SYSTEM on ODINF > %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 1 on _ODIN$MKA500 was not mounted because- >  its label does not match the one requested 4 >  specify option (QUIT, NEW tape or OVERWRITE tape) > H > The only way to satisfy this request is to use OVERWRITE.  Why doesn't > NEW work?   E Instead of "NEW", the developers should have used "ANOTHER".  That's  F what you're being offered -- a chance to take that tape back out, and  use a different one.  ? If you select OVERWRITE, it will init the tape first, which is   usually what you want...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 07:13:35 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: backup 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECIHOAA.tom@kednos.com>   @ The way the original message is written you would think that NEWB was different than QUIT, but as your citation points out, they areC synonyms.  If NEW dismounts the volume, then it is not very useful.    >-----Original Message----- . >From: Jan-Erik Sderholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]* >Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 6:50 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: backup >  >  >Check HELP  /MESS MOUNTERR :  >  > User Action:> >  At this point, the Backup utility allows you to either quitA >  the operation, overwrite the volume label and continue, or put > >  a new volume in the drive and continue processing. To abort? >  the operation, enter the QUIT command at the BACKUP> prompt. = >  To overwrite information in the volume header and continue A >  processing, enter the OVERWRITE command at the BACKUP> prompt. < >  To restart the operation with a new volume, enter the NEW? >  command at the BACKUP> prompt. If the QUIT or NEW command is A >  chosen, the Backup utility automatically dismounts the volume.  >  > % >So, in what way doesn't "NEW" work ?  > 
 >Best Regards 
 >Jan-Erik. >  >  >Tom Linden wrote: >>? >> In backing up disks, if I put in a new tape in response to a A >> request to mount a particular tape, typically get a message as  >>' >> Request 81, from user SYSTEM on ODIN G >> %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 1 on _ODIN$MKA500 was not mounted because . >>  its label does not match the one requested5 >>  specify option (QUIT, NEW tape or OVERWRITE tape)  >>I >> The only way to satisfy this request is to use OVERWRITE.  Why doesn't  >> NEW work? >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >> Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:42:10 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: backup + Message-ID: <bj2a83$kc2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   b "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECIHOAA.tom@kednos.com...B > The way the original message is written you would think that NEWD > was different than QUIT, but as your citation points out, they are > synonyms. 
 They are not.   : > If NEW dismounts the volume, then it is not very useful.  = It depends what you mean by useful. Operator initiated mounts 8 are something of something of an anachronism these days.< It makes much more sense if you assume that you have a shift@ of tape operators toiling away at some location remote from you.  8 So, you issue the backup command specifying a label. The< incorrect tape is mounted; the operator sees this, gives you8 a REPLY/NEW, finds the correct tape, loads it and you're away.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:16:57 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: backup 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEECMHOAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 0 >From: Richard Brodie [mailto:R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk]* >Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:42 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: backup >  >  > 0 >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECIHOAA.tom@kednos.com...C >> The way the original message is written you would think that NEW E >> was different than QUIT, but as your citation points out, they are  >> synonyms. >They are not. > ; >> If NEW dismounts the volume, then it is not very useful.  > > >It depends what you mean by useful. Operator initiated mounts9 >are something of something of an anachronism these days. = >It makes much more sense if you assume that you have a shift A >of tape operators toiling away at some location remote from you.  > 9 >So, you issue the backup command specifying a label. The = >incorrect tape is mounted; the operator sees this, gives you 9 >a REPLY/NEW, finds the correct tape, loads it and you're  >away.  C Well as Stan pointed out, NEW doesn't mean NEW, it means ANOTHER or 	 ANEW :-)   >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:13:58 +0000 (UTC). From: "Insomnee" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: backup 2 Message-ID: <bj2j4m$gv1$1@hercules.btinternet.com>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEECMHOAA.tom@kednos.com...  >  >  > >-----Original Message----- 2 > >From: Richard Brodie [mailto:R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk], > >Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:42 AM > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >Subject: Re: backup > >  > >  > > 1 > >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 6 > >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECIHOAA.tom@kednos.com...E > >> The way the original message is written you would think that NEW G > >> was different than QUIT, but as your citation points out, they are  > >> synonyms. > >They are not. > > = > >> If NEW dismounts the volume, then it is not very useful.  > > @ > >It depends what you mean by useful. Operator initiated mounts; > >are something of something of an anachronism these days. ? > >It makes much more sense if you assume that you have a shift C > >of tape operators toiling away at some location remote from you.  > > ; > >So, you issue the backup command specifying a label. The ? > >incorrect tape is mounted; the operator sees this, gives you ; > >a REPLY/NEW, finds the correct tape, loads it and you're  > >away. > E > Well as Stan pointed out, NEW doesn't mean NEW, it means ANOTHER or 
 > ANEW :-) > >   I I think a Unix man was in the room when they were choosing the wording...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 06:41:02 GMT * From: "Mark Buda" <buda_NO@SPAM.yahoo.com>) Subject: Re: Cleaning up license database < Message-ID: <2YW4b.34906$Nc.7307665@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Hello,  . I will add this to a WISH LIST for the future.   --    
 Sincerely,	 Mark Buda    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:41:06 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 8 Subject: Re: DCL: Getting a counter to count from 9 to A1 Message-ID: <mS25b.3865$Nn4.817@news.cpqcorp.net>   > In article <a45e317a.0308290753.5d5bdf32@posting.google.com>, / composvms@wr.clara.net (The Architrave) writes:   ? >We have a number of entities called entity1, entity2, etc. ... E >...The entity number is stored/used as a single character elsewhere  ' >in the system so entity10 is a no-go.    H Well, it would seem that storing the entity number as a single characterF was a design error.  Just maybe you should bite the bullet and correct this now.     / However, you might also consider the following:   - $ x = "01234567879ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ"  $ entity_id = 0 + $ write sys$output f$extract(entity_id,1,x)  0  $ entity_id = 9 + $ write sys$output f$extract(entity_id,1,x)  0  $ entity_id = 10+ $ write sys$output f$extract(entity_id,1,x)  A  $ entity_id = 35+ $ write sys$output f$extract(entity_id,1,x)   @ You might even be able to extend this beyond 36 entries by using? upper and lower case, and/or special characters.  However, long = before you reach that point you should convert to storign the . entity number as more than a single character.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:45:08 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 8 Subject: Re: DCL: Getting a counter to count from 9 to A2 Message-ID: <8W25b.3866$Nn4.2256@news.cpqcorp.net>   Follow up on my prior reply --  & If you need to conver the other way...  , $ x = "0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" $ entity_number = "0" , $ write SYS$OUTPUT f$locate(entity_number,x) 0  $ entity_number = "9" , $ write SYS$OUTPUT f$locate(entity_number,x) 9  $ entity_number = "A, $ write SYS$OUTPUT f$locate(entity_number,x) A  $ entity_number = "Z" , $ write SYS$OUTPUT f$locate(entity_number,x) Z    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 12:16:15 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org8 Subject: Re: DCL: Getting a counter to count from 9 to A3 Message-ID: <J8W9+8zCkawG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <8W25b.3866$Nn4.2256@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:  > Follow up on my prior reply -- > ( > If you need to conver the other way... > . > $ x = "0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" > $ entity_number = "0" . > $ write SYS$OUTPUT f$locate(entity_number,x) > 0  > $ entity_number = "9" . > $ write SYS$OUTPUT f$locate(entity_number,x) > 9  > $ entity_number = "A. > $ write SYS$OUTPUT f$locate(entity_number,x) > A    ^^   10   Fudge alert!   > $ entity_number = "Z" . > $ write SYS$OUTPUT f$locate(entity_number,x) > Z    ^^   35   Fudge alert!  C (Dang.  Almost fudged myself.  I was all set to post the above with ? a 36 instead of the correct 35.  Then I actually ran the code).    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:02:21 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> D Subject: dynamic volume expansion and different-sized shadow members; Message-ID: <01L0774ZGBQKAMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   C I understand that in 7.3-2 it will be possible to have two disks of F different sizes in a shadow set.  I think this will be a really usefulF feature!  Presumably, the shadow set will have the size of the smallerD disk.  (Would an option to make it appear even smaller be useful forG anything?)  Can I then shadow BIG_DISK and LITTLE_DISK to make a shadowgE set the size of LITTLE_DISK, then break the shadow set and rebuild it E with two disks the size of BIG_DISK and have the SHADOW SET have this  size as well?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:17:34 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t> Subject: Re: HELP: Byte Record Too Large For Users Buffer.....3 Message-ID: <709wt2cddba7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <c4bfc78e.0308291221.a46414d@posting.google.com>, byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) writes:3 > So my question is there any settings I can change 2 > to get rid of this or am I hosed because OpenVMS# > can't handle large command lines.   E    You're not hosed, but this is a problem you'll have to workaround.yE    There are several things you can do to make command lines shorter.i@    I'll assume you're using GNU compiler's UNIX-like syntax, but3    you can do the following for VMS utilities, too:l      For all utilities:  cD       review the options on the command line and remove those which !       	 match the default setting H       remove unecessary expansion of file names when default directories       	 will doMB       replace lengthy paths in file names with short logical names      For the C compiler:  C       replace long lists of -Dname with a single .C file containingv?       	 them as #define name, then use the + list format to add(@       	 this before the input source name, make sure you control       	 the output file namespB       replace long lists of -Ipath with a single -Ipath who's path5       	 is a logical name that contains a search list+D       remove any options for the loader (ld) when doing compile-only           For the linker/loader:e>       remove any options for the compiler when doing load-onlyB       replace long lists of -Lpath with a single -Lpath who's path5       	 is a logical name that contains a search listG  C    I find that generally all I have to do is deal with the -D flags 8    for the C comiler and then everything is short enough   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 03 19:46:09 +0200n) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture), Subject: Re: HSZTERM) Message-ID: <IshTfro$X18D@elias.decus.ch>o  c In article <3F528A11.24C84C76@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:r > Very kind.9 > Is that the same (only ?) kit as David posted an URL toM5 > in another post ? If so I can just as well download  > from his site.  B From the version number probably so. The files in the savesets are; dated 24/26-Jul-1995 here. - written by username PARRIS :-)N  ' I do have the cover letter etc as well.5  = Beware, IIRC it won't let you execute commands from a commandu/ file - you need HSDSA_ALPHA.EXE (sp?) for that.I   >  > Thanks to both anyway !f >  > Jan-Erik.  >  >  >  > Paul Sture wrote:E >> ke >> In article <3F5263B4.6985AB2@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:c >> > >> o	 >> <snip>/ >> s1 >> > I'm not asking for HSZTERM for no reason. :)- >> > >> -I >> Please send me a valid email address, and I will see what I can do ;-)8   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:51:06 +020059 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: HSZTERM and HSZ22 ?' Message-ID: <3F54A04A.E19602F5@aaa.com>r   Hi. D Anyone been using HSZTERM together with a RA3000 (HSZ22 controler) ?  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:02:28 -0500t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a Subject: Re: OpenVMS Securityo3 Message-ID: <QvWpr60$MOQj@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  U In article <3F500535.40209@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:n  B > Andrew constantly tries to lump denial of service with security.  H    I think a great many of use disagree with you on this one.  CertainlyD    when my PC or Sun box gets crippled by DOS attacks, I consider it    a security issue.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:20:40 GMTu& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS SecurityM8 Message-ID: <nj99lvkmuo5ukhr0v3r1mg43dqab1vgo7s@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:29:03 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >Mark Berryman wrote: I >> Wrong again, Andrew.  No IP stack was bundled with VMS at the time in  G >> question.  It had to be ordered separately and there were (and are) y >> serveral to choose from.. >> e >o; >If true where would an administrator using Digital/Compaqs 2 >stack go to discover that they were vunerable ??? >3A >The fact that it may or may not have been a separately orderablec= >product does not absolve Compaq from their responsibility to 2 >accurately report vunerabilities to that product.  G Clearly, in stating that "there were (and are) serveral [sic] to choosed- from.", the notion of "it" seems a bit vague.t  C If they purchased a stack from a 3rd-party vendor, they'd check forh, vulnerabilities from their vendor of choice.   > ? >You could argue that because Compaq had the gall to charge forHA >something that in almost every other OS was a standard componentt> >then the very least they could have done was get the security >reporting sorted out.  E The Digital way was to sell platforms a la carte.  You may not chargeCK separately for your TCP/IP stack, but it's cost of support is factored intoFD the overall cost.  DEC didn't assume that everyone would want TCP/IPK initially, and they could order DECnet instead.  The comparison you attempt-C to make is very specific to Sun's legacy, but doesn't make sense in ! DEC/CPQ/HPQ's for the OpenVMS OS.j   >R> >I hate to say this but arguing that the IP stack isn't really; >part of OpenVMS and therefore doesn't need to be secure ish) >abouts as crass a point as you can make.a  J Only if you want to ignore that dec/cpq/hpq would not be the place to look5 if there were a vulnerability in Multinet or TCPWare.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:29:07 GMTt& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Securityp8 Message-ID: <3v99lv0mkjmvjthf5q1bj7r7302dbaob7m@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:59:42 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >oE >There are apparently 400,000 installed VMS/OpenVMS systems worldwide E >Including mobile phones supporting IP there are probably 200 million  >plus devices that support IP. > C >What ever you may think about the technical merits of IP it is theh@ >defacto network standard and to suggest as you go on to do that< >DECnet would at this point be a better option is laughable.  F And yet, HP has customers who don't want/nedd IP and opt, instead, for DECnet.  go figure.    >i4 >Almost all customers have standardised on IP mainly= >because for the last decade all the systems they have boughts< >with the possible exception of OpenVMS have included IP and< >it doesn't make any sense to force the vast majority to pay: >to be able to talk to a tiny minory (OpenVMS) of systems.  D But your point of view isn't the only valid one here.  If a customerK doesn't want IP, they shouldn't have to pay for it.  In the OpenVMS OS, theeH networking protocol has historically been a chooseable option (actually,J many, many systems were sold with NAS package - not Net Attached Storage -I which was a collection of licenses that included TCP/IP).  So what?  This = entire line of discussion is meaningless if you're discussing- vulnerabilities.  I If the customer purchased a 3rd-party product, they would expect to go tosJ those 3rd-party support organizations to get fixes for any vulnerabilities that their products may have.c  I I think the original point about these other products is that they do notmH all have the vulnerabilities you're trying to assert.  This demonstratesJ that the OpenVMS OS does not have the vulnerabilities, but is dependent onJ the TCP/IP stack in use.  Those who don't use the DEC/CPQ/HPQ product will9 have a different outlook on this than those who do, imho.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:44:32 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security 8 Message-ID: <ura9lv81icq25krkcd0hufasei3b07rda2@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:18:56 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >Mark Berryman wrote:i   >dD >UCX was Digitals IP stack for OpenVMS. UCX was vunerable to variousA >CERT exploits, so where would you expect OpenVMS admins managing B >systems using UCX go to get reliable responses to CERT advisories >for UCX on OpenVMS ?d  I Who knows now?  I don't recall ever having a problem I didn't get supportgG for.  Now, considering that well less than 1/4 of the customers (at one I time) were using Digital's IP stack, most of which were not vulnerable to F ping-of-death (for example), how many of these would expect this to be/ submitted as a vulnerability in the OpenVMS OS?     E > Take Ping of Death, Digital did post a response for UCX on OpenVMS.u  F So the CERT advisory for p-o-d was listed as an OpenVMS vulnerability?G Really?  Or was it listed as a UCX vulnerability on the only only OS oni
 which it ran?w  K And if listed as an OpenVMS OS vulnerability, what would all those MultinetgH and TCPWare customers install to patch their non-existent vulnerability?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 17:46:10 +0100I* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Securityh' Message-ID: <bj2hd7$170$1@lore.csc.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > Nic Clews wrote:, > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >v ...hL > > Please understand that the (anyones) IP stack to OpenVMS with regards toF > > the operating system, has a different position to that to say UNIXL > > (anybodies) as an operating system. A very fundamental difference. We're, > > talking operating system internals here. > > J > > While you see "not" packaging some IP stack or other with OpenVMS as aJ > > failure, the way OpenVMS grew up without one in the first place, meansG > > that whatever IP stack doesn't have the same dangerous, potentiallyeL > > damaging little "hooks" into the kernel. As an add-on it has to obey theD > > protection laws as laid down by the operating system architects. > >6 > ? > Ohh so if this is the case why do the vunerabilites exist for- > the OpenVMS IP stack ??   H There is part of the misunderstanding. You cannot apply the word "stack"G to OpenVMS networking protocols, entirely different relationship to ther= way certain other operating system networking protocols whichsG understandably receive the description of a stack. This has been statedlG in this thread. You've not even got a starting point for what is not inn proportion.e  G There is a glimmer of hope that you've made the distinction between thek! "stack" and the operating system.n  @ > > As you say, ignorance of facts can lead to wrong assertions. > >A > @ > As you can see wrong assumptions can lead to you being at odds) > with the facts as you are in this case.a  ' We've not even got as far as the facts.e   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comv   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 07:08:54 -0700n1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) $ Subject: OpenVMS Training comes home= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0309020608.27deb050@posting.google.com>e  ) http://education.hp.com/email/openvms.htmt  $  if you need a pdf just let me know.  
 Warm Regards,p Suei3 ___________________________________________________p  HP OpenVMS Training  ? HP OpenVMS couples unparalleled functionality with the enhanced D performance and reliability your applications demand. HP OpenVMS hasF been a mainstay for over 25 years in environments that require robust,A resilient computing, serving the 10 million users who rely on its-A great scalability, ease of management, proven disaster tolerance,b/ extreme availability and extensive performance.l  B HP is committed to providing a comprehensive training solution forD today's IT business environment. As part of this ongoing initiative,C HP is pleased to announce that HP OpenVMS training is now delivered F through HP's dedicated training organization - education services. TheD courses have been redesigned and their content rewritten and refined= to create a job-role-focused curriculum for HP OpenVMS SystemnD Managers. This new suite of training solutions will provide a stableE environment to learn exactly what you want, exactly when you want it.e  C Courses cover a wide range of competencies, so there is one to suitsA everyone. Courses range from basic core information and essential E skills for people new to the system to a highly technical examinationiA of the features of HP OpenVMS v7.3 and how they impact the system 7 manager's daily operations and monitoring capabilities.s  o     t      The Importance of Training8  ? Training continues to have a huge impact on today's IT businesstE environment, and HP's education services can play a significant role.eA Quality IT training provides employees with the necessary skills,eC information and resources to empower them in their chosen position.t  @ Building staff skills is one of the most effective ways to boostC productivity, manage change and build employee confidence, enabling.D them to make better decisions which, in turn, boost the return on IT investment.n       e  s       7 The future of HP OpenVMS - the Intel Itanium platformH  E HP has maintained its commitment to continually improve and evolve HPpF OpenVMS. One such evolution was the transition, 10 years ago, from VAXF to Alpha. We are now in the process of moving HP OpenVMS from Alpha toB the cost-effective, industry-standard Itanium architecture. And inE fact we have already booted it on Itanium architecture-based systems.n  @ When the port to the Intel Itanium architecture is completed, HPD OpenVMS customers will have a choice of staying with the AlphaServer? platform for many more years or moving to the industry-standard F Itanium platform. HP is working closely with industry leading softwareB vendors like Oracle, BEA, BMC Software and Computer Associates, to@ name just a few, to port HP OpenVMS environments and applicationD portfolios to Itanium-based enterprise systems. The vast majority of< HP OpenVMS ISV partners have already committed to port their7 applications to HP OpenVMS on the Itanium architecture.n         .  c            Why choose HP? y  A HP offers an industry-leading IT training portfolio with flexibleeC scheduling, over 200 different instructor-led courses and more than6@ 3,000 online courses, so you choose the desired level of detail,@ timelines and local languages. Now the HP OpenVMS system managerD curriculum has been redesigned and rewritten to be job-role-focused,E HP's education services experts can easily customize standard coursesu; based on exactly what knowledge and skill you need to gain.   C Our blended approach to learning through a combination of classroomnF and online courses provides the maximum effectiveness and flexibility.> HP's education services can be tailored to your exact trainingA requirements. We can bring in an HP OpenVMS expert to help you tonE determine exactly what you need either on your premises or at one our  dedicated training centers.l  = There are more than 120 training centers worldwide as well as.? e-learning on the award-winning IT Resource Centre, a 'learning F community' with extensive ondemand resources that can be accessed 24x7F wherever there is an internet connection. With this in place, HP is inA the ideal position to provide HP OpenVMS training to thousands ofr employees all over the world.m  B Whether you need a half-day refresher course or a 10-day intensiveC technical course, with over 25 years of experience and over 200,000iE people trained every year, we have the breadth, depth and flexibilityeA to ensure you get the right HP OpenVMS training solution for your  business   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 02 Sep 03 08:54:05 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates+ Message-ID: <bj1pq6$o64$1@bob.news.rcn.net>e  1 In article <bivjs5$kt6$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>,a,    peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:H >In article <biv50n$9th$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:3 >>In article <biurbd$4hi$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>, . >>   peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:J >>>In article <binfv1$1vf$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:6 >>>>In article <bilgka$2uhp$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>,0 >>>>   peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:< >>>>>EDLIN should be able to do that. It's a TECO lookalike. >nB >>>>BARF!  No way.  Not if it's the EDLIN I tried to wrestle with. >T' >>>I said "lookalike", not "workalike".e >y/ >>TECO is a character editor not a line editor.X >r >Your point? >i2 Therefore, EDLIN and TECO don't look alike at all.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:06:25 -0500t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: Running app on each node in cluster3 Message-ID: <A14jL$pbxJeW@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  k In article <f7a73cb1.0308290950.7d2bd9f0@posting.google.com>, c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) writes: B > How would I start a process on each node in the cluster. LayeredD > product is installed on cluster system disk, and is running on oneE > node, but will not start on second node, any ideas how to get it toe > start?  C   Follow the detailed instructions in the product's install manual.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:37:51 +0200h$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> Subject: Re: Serial consolei9 Message-ID: <bj1vhb$e7gdf$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>e  - On 2003-09-02 00:22, "Michael Moroney" wrote:d  @ > And I still managed to confuse it.  I put in a PCI modem in myL > alphastation and *it* showed up as TTA0: (the other ports TTB0: and TTC0:,J > don't know which was which)  Even now with the PCI modem removed and itsH > entry still present but disabled, the other ports are TTB0: and TTC0:, > no TTA0: at all. >  > [...]n  @ What type of a PCI modem adapter? Any URL for technical details?  ? Is that "usable" for VMS, not asking for "supported" of course?b   Michaelt   -- d; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.i@ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:49:26 GMTt1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom>d Subject: Re: Serial console + Message-ID: <3F54BBD9.6C351658@hp.com.doom>-  N     That will confuse it because the PCI bus devices get enumerated before the XBUS devices.  WeBN knew it was not perfect.  What we wanted to avoid is having COM1 and COM2 flip
 around if you@( swtiched from serial to graphic console.   Forrestt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:05:01 +0200+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>e Subject: Re: Serial consoleC9 Message-ID: <bj2f3k$e8cra$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   @ "Forrest Kenney" <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom> schreef in bericht% news:3F53874B.7420F3CD@hp.com.doom...d > % >     A couple of items covered here.c >eI > 1) For the serial console VMS does not pay any attention to the consoler > environment variables.I >     You can set any way you want and VMS will do what it wants with thee > line.n >gH > 2) On most but not all the Alpha work stations the port labled COM1 is > either OPA0: or TTB0:.J >     The port is OPA0 if the system has a serial console and TTB0 if not. > The port COM2 is alwaysxI >     TTA0.  The platform support code goes to great pain to make it thate way. >d > G Perhaps the Digital Server 5305 differs there from its AlphaServer 1200 I cousin. TTA0 does shift from COM1 to COM2 depending on the setting of thehJ SRM variable "console". Now I know that a 5305 is not supported to run VMS! so my observation may be ignored.2   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:21:30 +0000 (UTC)' From: Michael Moroney <moroney@std.com>i Subject: Re: Serial consoles( Message-ID: <bj2jiq$bo3$1@pcls4.std.com>  & Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:  . >On 2003-09-02 00:22, "Michael Moroney" wrote:  A >> And I still managed to confuse it.  I put in a PCI modem in myeM >> alphastation and *it* showed up as TTA0: (the other ports TTB0: and TTC0:, K >> don't know which was which)  Even now with the PCI modem removed and itsiI >> entry still present but disabled, the other ports are TTB0: and TTC0:,- >> no TTA0: at all.u >>   >> [...]  A >What type of a PCI modem adapter? Any URL for technical details?o  : Sorry, I misremembered.  It was an ISA 56K modem, not PCI.< It was whatever model was available at the PC show that day.  @ >Is that "usable" for VMS, not asking for "supported" of course?  G It worked fine for PPP connections once I figured everything out (which C wasn't easy), although it didn't work with all ISPs (VMS PPP didn't-J support CHAP or PAP logins or somesuch)  Worked fine for SET HOST/DTE as aH simple dialout, too.  I think it was rate limited to 38400 bps since theG VMS TT driver didn't support higher speeds. Haven't used this for years. since I got a DSL line.o   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:44:56 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e) Subject: Re: Shadowing question: NOMASTERb; Message-ID: <01L06U11BW0IAOOLBD@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  A > >I want to be able to boot the servers in either order and onlybG > >one at a time, and still have access to the shadow set, even it it'sL- > >created with only one member at boot time.a > >uF > >When I boot server 2 (while server 1 is down), I get what I expect:D > >a 1-member shadow with just the member that it sees when server 1 > >is down.I > >uD > >When I boot server 1 (while server 2 is down), I get the NOMASTERE > >error on the Mount/Cluster/Shadow command and all the files on thehD > >shadow are inaccessible, including the UAF, disabling all logins. > H > As others have posted this is nothing to do with what files are on theH > disk. And from your additional posting it is clear it is nothing to do  > with shadow merges or copying. > B > From what I can determine from the description you cannot safely > achieve what you want to do. > C > For Volume Shadowing to work seemlessly the individual shadow seteG > volumes need to be available to both Servers. This is usually done byo= > connecting HS Type Storage Controllers to multiple Servers.g > A > In your case the Disk is effectively locally attached. When you8C > shutdown Server 1 you are dissolving the Shadow Set. Server 2 can F > continue to update the now single volume Shadow Set. This is now theH > Master Volume. If you shutdown Server 2 and then boot Server 1 it onlyH > has access to the older volume. Volume Shadowing knows this volume wasF > dismounted from the Shadow Set. It knows the data is possibly out of > date.e > G > You can force it to mount the new shadow set, but any updates done byn, > Server 2 to the other member will be lost.  I To clarify: it is possible to have a shadow set with the members locally eE attached to only one node (and MSCP served to others).  One can then oE boot just one node with one member of the shadow set.  However, this fF won't work if a node is shut down before a copy or merge is complete, 9 and won't work if more than one node is down at one time.a   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 09:39:37 -0700e1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) ) Subject: Re: Shadowing question: NOMASTERa= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0309020839.3e3c974b@posting.google.com>o  X Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message news:<vl6f7b9mdlsl8c@corp.supernews.com>...> > There are two servers in the cluster. The shadow set is made? > up of two members: let's call them 1 and 2.  The disks in theo* > shadow reside in a disk array enclosure. > E > Server 1 can only see member 1 of the shadow when server 2 is down.> > E > Server 2 can only see member 2 of the shadow when server 1 is down.m  E OK.  This is something that can be handled.  This closely matches themB situation in a 2-site disaster-tolerant cluster (where there is no> inter-site Fibre Channel link), and the disks at each site areB MSCP-served to the other site.  Lots of sites are doing that.  TheA shadow set with the UAF, Rightslist, Queue File, etc. is commonlyn7 called the "cluster-common" disk, or something similar.y  F There's a lot of info on handling cross-site MSCP-served shadowsets inF the class notes for my 1-day seminar on VMS disaster-tolerant clusters< at http://www2.openvms.org/kparris/f2003_vms_dt_clusters.ppt  @ > I want to be able to boot the servers in either order and onlyF > one at a time, and still have access to the shadow set, even it it's, > created with only one member at boot time. > E > When I boot server 2 (while server 1 is down), I get what I expect:rC > a 1-member shadow with just the member that it sees when server 1e
 > is down. > C > When I boot server 1 (while server 2 is down), I get the NOMASTERgD > error on the Mount/Cluster/Shadow command and all the files on theC > shadow are inaccessible, including the UAF, disabling all logins.d  9 First of all, to make things easier on yourself as you dotF troubleshooting, or if something goes wrong, put a copy of the licenseB PAKs for: Open VMS Base, OpenVMS Users, Clusters, Volume ShadowingD and, for ease of access, your choice of networking protocols (DECnetF and/or TCP/IP), into the license database on each system disk, and putE a skeletal SYSUAF.DAT and RIGHTSLIST.DAT there as well.  Once you get A the cluster-common shadowset mounted, you'll redefine the SYSUAF,?E RIGHTSLIST, and LMF$LICENSE logical names to point to the copy on theaE cluster-common disk, but having a valid UAF and LDB before that pointd can make things a lot easier.-  9 I'd put the code to mount the cluster-common shadowset inh SYLOGICALS.COM..  E This code will need some intelligence.  Ideally, it should look (withaD F$CSID) to see what nodes are in the cluster, and/or (with F$GETDVI)E which of the two shadowset members are present.  If the opposite node@A is already up and running, (and thus presumably has the shadowsetiE already mounted with a single member, its own local member), a simpleh= "$MOUNT DSAnnn: label" with no other arguments will mount theo< shadowset with the existing member, or a $MOUNT command withE /SHADOW=(disk1,disk2) will mount it and also start a shadow full-copyiE operation to update the local member.  If the opposite node is not up B yet, then you should be able to $MOUNT the shadowset with only the! local member in the /SHADOW list.e  D Because it can be tricky to handle all possible cases automatically,D some sites use a reserved-to-customers SYSGEN parameter (like USERD1E or USERD2) as a flag (set manually in SYSBOOT during a conversational1B boot) to inform the startup procedures what to do about cross-site? shadowsets, where different parameter values are chosen to meand different things:<A o  Mount both members (normal case -- both sites OK; or, 2nd siterB coming up, and it's OK to start a full-copy operation to the local member from the remote member)/ o  Mount only local member (other site is down)c> o  Mount only remote member (other site survived; this site isB re-entering the cluster, but we're deferring the shadow copy until later)  $ Hopefully this will get you started.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:26:38 +0200 (MET)f9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t) Subject: Re: Shadowing question: NOMASTERt; Message-ID: <01L07842VUL8AMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  * > This code will need some intelligence.   > J > $MOUNT command with /SHADOW=(disk1,disk2) will mount it and also start aI > shadow full-copy operation to update the local member.  If the opposite J > node is not up yet, then you should be able to $MOUNT the shadowset with- > only the local member in the /SHADOW list. V  4 With the command above, or with a different command?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:29:44 -0500-; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r# Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstream 3 Message-ID: <vJ7wrVN1eYi+@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  c In article <ybbfBgtWICo3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:i  B > Isn't the whole reason for a USB hub that one needs more power ? > B > Having an extra power cord to the keyboard would defeat the goal > of reducing complexity.i > D > A daisy-chain connector like the ADB keyboard on which I am typingD > this would be nice, but I am under the impression that is contrary" > to the electrical design of USB.  G    Like the Mac keyboards with ADB, Mac keyboard now come with a couplenD    of USB connections so you can plug your mouse into your keyboard,C    and the mouse cords aren't too long.  If you don't draw too mucheB    power from them, you can chain lots of stuff.  My kid's iMac DV@    has a mouse and an HP printer plugged into the keyboard.  TheF    keyboard is plugged into one of the system's USB ports and a floppyD    drive that draw its power from the USB is plugged into the other.D    The floppy drive draws too much power to be chained with anything&    else unless a powered hub is added.  B    Apple has also added USB ports to the back of their flat screenG    monitors.  I find it handier to plug my mouse in there, and leave myoE    keyboard more readily moveable.  What I'm curious about is whether =    that power cord to the monitor is also powering a USB hub.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:57:33 GMTK9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> # Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreamn2 Message-ID: <N535b.3868$Yq4.1333@news.cpqcorp.net>  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in messageg3 news:biq5qb$c4p5b$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de...8   >nF > Does the LK463 keyboard come with an integrated USB hub? It would beH > convenient to connect the mouse to the keyboard instead of directly toI > the system if the keyboard is located away (within the USB limitations)a > from the system. >l   Nope.a   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 23:38:42 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk! Subject: Re: The vmsnet hierarchye) Message-ID: <bj0la2$902$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>3  [ In article <3F53AB41.EF70C0C2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:e >Javier Henderson wrote: >> r. >> Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk> writes: >> yT >> > If they are not being used for their intended purpose, there is little point inS >> > having them, IMHO. IS there a way to remove them all together, i.e., from news 
 >> > servers?a >> i> >> [snip] so I'll at least start by not propagating the vmsnet
 >> groups. >yF >Any chance you can filter the multinet group out and ignore the rest? >e- >The multinet group is still somewhat active.l >s  L Many of them are still in use. Some such as vmsnet.mail.pmdf have a lot more- traffic than vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet.l  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/7 >Z) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:n  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Sep 2003 08:37:39 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e! Subject: Re: The vmsnet hierarchy 3 Message-ID: <WPAitMWhYGhy@eisner.encompasserve.org>=  X In article <86llt9cyzq.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>, Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM> writes:D > Is anyone using vmsnet groups for anything other than filesharing? > J > I'm about to remove this hierarchy from my server, it seems that there'sL > precious little valid traffic there. I know that some active mailing listsK > are gatewayed into vmsnet groups (info-multinet, for example), but that's-% > about the only legit traffic there.e  @    Unfortunately both the multinet and the field test groups areF    sometimes plagued by these file dumps.  But both are also in active    use.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:03:36 GMTI& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32508 Message-ID: <lm89lvc7ftvio8ov693p8fatqi3n7srkrl@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:03:34 -0400, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:  >b   >> r > Q >You have a problem.  It's your customers.  Unfortunately, they are the few with cP >an attention span greater than that of a gnat.  Unfortunate for you.  It seems N >that they remember the claims made by Compaq when they announced the move to N >IA-64 and the death of Alpha.  You see, they just couldn't imagine customers Q >(actually, all they understood was sales, not customers) with an attention span  % >such as that common among VMS users.y  L >Now, I know that you're not stupid enough to have believed all those silly N >statements.  However, you're stuck with them.  Don't redicule customers when H >they remember all the reasons IA-64 would be so much better than Alpha.  J I guess I'm confused.  #1, I don't recall ridiculing any customers.  #2, IK don't recall any promises of running on Dell... which is what I thought wasd the topic of discussion here.   I I apologize if I've got those two items wrong, as far as I can tell, thiseK discussion was whether we could (or should) allow non HP systems to run theaI OpenVMS OS.  I'm merely putting in my $.02 (USD) on what issues I've seen ) if you're not careful with your approach.k   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:14:14 GMTs& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32508 Message-ID: <3v89lvoesej6nfk9u2o35nda8ugo08rgvm@4ax.com>  K On 28 Aug 2003 07:56:01 -0500, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:t  6 >In article <3F4D9B36.6090705@tsoft-inc.com>,  writes: >> jlsue wrote:  >> e >p >>> O >>> So you really believe that a Dell IA64 system is EXACTLY like an HP system?tI >>> Is this true of the IA32 systems today?  I think not.  For 90% of ther> >>> applications the differences probably won't be noticeable. >>> M >>> However, VMScluster systems tend to push the envelope on internal designs M >>> of systems.  Systems not designed with this under consideration may work,<N >>> but there's no way to be sure.  So, is it worth the risk in your business' >>> environment? >>>    >tA >	I'm not too worried about reasonably priced IA64 boxes from HP.p? >	What I am a bit concerned about is the NSK and VMS IA64 boxesmD >	will cost more than W2K or .NET or whatever they will call Windows >	Enterprise in a few years.   Agreed.e  C >	I don't agree with jlsue's argument.  That was then, this is now.C  F What are you saying my argument is?  This comment makes no sense to meH because you don't seem to refer to anything in my argument.  My point ofH discussion is that enterprise customers, generally, don't want somethingG that works "most" of the time.  And those who will try cheaper hardwarecH will also try to get support, even though it's explicitly stated that HP doesn't support it.   @ >	W2K Enterprise scales to 32 or more CPUs and there are missionA >	critical apps running on Windows by the way, Windows Enterprise1E >	has its own qualification program (for what it is worth).  Meaning:m: >	IA64 Windows hardware must be robust (or reasonably so).  G If rebooting just to reboot means robust, than I can see your point....SF 'cause that's what I see many "enterprise" apps doing today.  But that< doesn't have anything to do with my side of this discussion.   >eC >	What it may come down to is savvy VMS endusers buying HP W2K IA64QB >	servers and throwing away the licenses and sticking VMS on them > >	(with legally transferred licenses of course) and save money> >	on the hardware.  Why?  I can't imagine W2K hardware costing@ >	the SAME as hardware that runs VMS (Dell Effect, etc.)  I alsoC >	think they can't or won't do a firmware cripple job to keep thoseI' >	HP W2K IA64 servers from running VMS.- >-  ? Personally, I'd love to see HP institute some kind of 3rd-partymE qualification program.  I don't know what that involves, however.  ItsD appears to me that qualification is not trivial, however, and if youF include clusters, it becomes exponentially more complex to get all the
 combinations.n  F Also, just to reiterate my main point:  Claiming that something is notH supported when customers go off to get some other hardware won't get youK very good customer satisfaction.  It's not that HP can't try that, but when>G you've got a customer with silver/gold/platinum/whatever-its-called-nowaG support, some manager in such company will demand support.  Been there,  done that, got the t-shirt.t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.486 ************************