1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 05 Sep 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 492       Contents:M Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal  Re: ANN:SMPP API under OpenVMS$ Re: Backup/Copy tree with alias file$ Re: Backup/Copy tree with alias file/ Re: Copying Licenses to a Disaster Recovery Box > Re: Difficulties with DPW 500au and StorageWorks components... Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? RE: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? RE: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? RE: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? Re: Do we need a DCL debugger?, Re: Documentation for $setenv system service HLR for CDMA under OpenVMS HP *ALMOST* Advertised VMS Re: HP *ALMOST* Advertised VMS% Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived % Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived % Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived % Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived % Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates 9 Re: pgp 2.6.3ia multi05 finally running on OpenVMS V7.3-1 9 Re: pgp 2.6.3ia multi05 finally running on OpenVMS V7.3-1 9 Re: pgp 2.6.3ia multi05 finally running on OpenVMS V7.3-1 9 Re: pgp 2.6.3ia multi05 finally running on OpenVMS V7.3-1  Re: RdB on EVA ? Re: RdB on EVA ? Re: RdB on EVA ? Re: read on socket returns zero  Re: read on socket returns zero  Re: Serial console Re: Stop swimming upstream" Re: Switch Frm DECNet+ to Phase IV> Re: Using multiple Radeon 7500 PCI cards in a DS10 running VMSB Re: VMS is being ported to Itanium - but will there be any supportP Re: VMS is being ported to Itanium - but will there be any support when it arriv- Re: VMS Technical Update (presenter's notes?) = Re: What's the practical effect of DECW$LOGINMANY being TRUE? 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250  Xerces NetAccessor$ Re: [Q] Learning to use Queues in C.$ Re: [Q] Learning to use Queues in C.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:24:27 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> V Subject: Re: ??==Delete key only backspaces w/o delete from Telnet in Mac OSX Terminal1 Message-ID: <%M26b.4112$iE.3314@news.cpqcorp.net>   I On VMS, with a PC keyboard (a non LK450/411/463) you can press (and hold) L LOCK and Fn to get Fn+10 (F1 -> F11, etc).  Lock will be flipped back to the& original state.  It's the VT500 trick.    4 "Elliott Roper" <elliott@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message, news:030920032325106457%elliott@yrl.co.uk...: > In article <bj5nr5$25q$1@news1.radix.net>, Thomas Dickey$ > <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote: > L > > XFree86 xterm (which is what Mac OSX uses) gets F13-F20 by control/F3-10L > > or control/F1-F8, depending on resource settings.  Insert, remove, etc.,I > > are also provided.  It's been a while since I've seen a Mac keyboard, G > > but it should be possible to make it work as well as a PC keyboard. I > There are a couple of X11 servers, the one you mention and Apple's own. B > Neither is perfect. I once got DECTerm working under Apple's ownE > variant of XFree86 but the redraw on window move was embarrassingly F > awful. You have to be a special form of masochist to use X11 betweenF > Mac and VMS just to get a terminal, so I gave up before the pain gotH > unbearable. I really wish that Better Telnet made it to OS X,  and I'mD > hoping that the final version of Apple's Xserver is better. In theI > meantime, if I really need to, I'm typing the esoteric escape sequences 
 > by hand.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:16:36 +0500 & From: Valentin Likoum <me@privacy.net>' Subject: Re: ANN:SMPP API under OpenVMS 9 Message-ID: <bj99p2$fnnhc$1@ID-184585.news.uni-berlin.de>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Valentin Likoum wrote: > : >>   It depends on what do you mean "efficient". You could= >>acquire GSM module, say Siemens TC35, plug it into COM port = >>on your VAX (or port on terminal server), put SIM-card into ; >>it and voi-la - your VAX is able to communicate with SMSC " >>without bothering SMS providers. >  > N > But that requires a subscription with the GSM provider, and here, they don't6 > offer special low rate  subscriptions for SMS only.  [snip]  <    Hardly SMS provider offers free SMPP connection. On this = side of the planet it costs big bucks and not acceptable for  ; person anyway, so module is definitly the way for personal  , use, business is the another game of course.   --  
 Best regards, 
   Valentin)   valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:17:10 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> - Subject: Re: Backup/Copy tree with alias file ; Message-ID: <01L0AXUXI59UAOOLBD@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   3 > > >Well, DISK:[SYSn]SYSCOMMON.DIR is an alias for K > > >DISK:[000000]VMS$COMMON.DIR.  (Actually, since both of these occur in  I > > >logicals defined as search lists, I've never understood why this is  I > > >necessary; perhaps it goes back to the very old days of VMS, before  + > > >search-list logicals were implemented?  > > J > > This is a question I've often wondered about, too -- why (technically)K > > are the SYSCOMMON.DIR aliases setup on a cluster common system disk? As H > > you point out, with the logical name SYS$SYSROOT defined as a search7 > > list, I don't see any reason why this is/was done.   > > L > > I've never found anyone who can make even a plausible response. I'd love* > > to find out from one of the HP folks.  > G > For one thing, it makes it possible/easier to redefine SYS$SYSROOT to F > add additional elements to the search path for SYS$SYSTEM, etc. I do > this on several systems.    I Having a search list does this, but how does having some elements of the   search list being aliases help?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:00:43 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: Backup/Copy tree with alias file ) Message-ID: <3F58B32A.3693698C@istop.com>    Phillip Helbig wrote: J > Having a search list does this, but how does having some elements of the! > search list being aliases help?   I You could have 2 "common" trees, and use the alias to point to one or the K other during a vms upgrade procedure, leaving the other common tree intact. N (ok, one could also use "rename" to rename the backup tree into the production tree and vice versa).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:56:28 +0100 & From: Nic Clews <spamhere@[127.0.0.1]>8 Subject: Re: Copying Licenses to a Disaster Recovery Box' Message-ID: <bj9mh5$gur$1@lore.csc.com>    Denny wrote:   ... F > This is standard practice, and I think HP will bless it, if you ask.' > They understand about DR and testing.  > B > They will have absolutely no sense of humor, however, if you are, > "duplicating" licenses, but you knew that.  -  From the principles of software licensing...   $ "Software backup on standby systems"  H "The license terms and conditions permit the execution of software on a H backup system during the temporary malfunction of the hardware on which % the license is currently designated."   G DR tests specifically are not mentioned, but in the case of a test you  G have both the live application, and the backup system running, and the  F terms do state that if both systems are simultaneously accessible and G capable of being used (not even actually being used) they both must be  ( licensed. This is the official position.  H A software loan license would perhaps be more applicable in the case of - DR testing, as its purpose is for evaluation.    --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 06:36:08 -0700  From: ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM) G Subject: Re: Difficulties with DPW 500au and StorageWorks components... < Message-ID: <9d337b47.0309050536.1c53c75@posting.google.com>   Here's how things ended:  D Following your advices, I located a Single Ended QLA1040 on eBay andC purchased it for $22 + shipping.  Looked new when I received it and E snapped it in a PCI slot of my workstation.  No sign of yellow strips F on the board this time; this is the right one.  Despite of the absenceA or DEC part number, the thing fired right up, recognizing the DEC F BA356 expansion box and all drives into it.  I could initialize all of@ them, which seems to prove the personality module and all drivesF resisted the few attempts I did to hook them up to the HVD QLA1041 you@ helped me to identify.  DEC equipment definitely is the best :-)  * Bottom line is: everything looks good now.    Thank you so much for your help!  
   -- Olivier.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:29:33 GMT / From: "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-hXpoBdyeedj5@localhost>   5 On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 03:44:36 UTC, "David J. Dachtera"   <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Martin Hunt wrote:
 > > [snip]! > > An ElseIF would be handy, too  >  > As in: >  > $ IF	condition > $ THEN > $	statement(s) > $ ELSE	IF	condition  > $	THEN > $		statement(s) 	 > $	ENDIF 	 > $ ENDIF    Yeah but more like   $	IF condition	 $	   THEN  $	        statement(s) $  $	ELSE IF other_condition 	 $	   THEN  $	          statement(s) $  $	ELSEIF	further_condition	 $	   THEN  $	          statement(s) $	ENDIF   D ELSIF might be easier to implemement than ELSE IF. The 4 characater * DCL verb parsing rules would still apply.   F As Martin indicates in his reply, the indentations, for those that useE them, can get a bit 'heavy' and misleading when you've got 3 or more   ELSE conditions.     --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:29:34 GMT / From: "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-0KwdIH9O05wY@localhost>   F On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:55:05 UTC, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  wrote:  L > > } OTOH, I don't see the point for FOR and WHILE or UNTIL loops, that can! > > } easily be made with GOTOs,   > K > If you implement FOR, WHILE , UNTIL loops, you should also implement some J > BREAK statement that allows you to break out of the loop prematurely. Or0 > something less conventional, but more elegant: >  > JUMPOUT label  > I > This would 1- reset the "I am in a loop", 2-branch to a specific label.  > O > This would make it far more obvious what happens when you want to prematirely J > leave the loop, instead of a BREAK statement which isn't so obvious what# > exactly happens when it executes.  > A > On the other hand, with nested loops, it could get interesting.   2 It's there already JF. It's GOTO label :-) (ducks)  @ Actually you're right with point 1. It might well also help the D Parser/Interpreter get back to correct the nesting level or is that  foolproof now Guy?  F I used to have a nesting problem doing GOTO (backwards) to before the E beginning of an IF/THEN/ENDIF block. I _presumed_ DCL knew where the  D label was and loaded the relevant block and line without correcting F the nesting level, which in those days (5.n) was only reset by reading2 forwards and checking the ensuing ENDIF statements   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:32:40 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? ; Message-ID: <01L0AWCBDI3MAOOLBD@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   M > >> } OTOH, I don't see the point for FOR and WHILE or UNTIL loops, that can ! > >> } easily be made with GOTOs,  > > L > >If you implement FOR, WHILE , UNTIL loops, you should also implement someK > >BREAK statement that allows you to break out of the loop prematurely. Or 1 > >something less conventional, but more elegant:  > >  > >JUMPOUT label  > If you do this, please call it > J > LEAVE [label] (if label is not supplied it drops to the first executable > after the loop) G > so as not to superfluosly introduce yet another term into programming    What language uses LEAVE.   I Again, Fortran95 (and 90) got it right.  Model this stuff on EXIT {label}    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:29:10 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? < Message-ID: <WzZ5b.35940$Nc.8246448@news1.news.adelphia.net>  ; >>How about... Making the OpenVMS FTP server work correctly < >>with all the other OS browsers, such as Microsoft IE, and 5 >>Linux browsers (Netscape, Mozilla, Galeon, etc...).  >>C Starting with 1.5 beta, Mozilla (on all platforms) will talk to an   OpenVMS FTP server.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 05:42:28 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? 3 Message-ID: <oE3iE6kcPFqp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <584glvodb8q35msfmdjq0ekeuq8llp4h5s@4ax.com>, Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.co.nz> writes:9 > On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:44:36 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"   > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  >>Martin Hunt wrote:  I >>> Ability to easily change the default SUBMIT behaviour to /NOPRINT - I I >>> know there are workarounds, but it is frustrating to wonder where the I >>> log file has gone, then realise that it has been printed and deleted. 9 >>> Does anyone actually want their log files doing this?  >>D >>One not-so-obvious work-around for that is to not have a SYS$PRINT >>queue. > D > We don't, but SYS$PRINT is defined as a logical. At other places IF > have worked, this has not been defined for batch jobs. At my presentD > place of work, it is defined because some procedures want to print! > reports to the default printer. E > I generally leave it undefined or defined as Null or similar. But I A > sometimes submit jobs under other usernames and get caught out.   - So if you fail to remember to use the command    	DEFINE SYS$PRINT NO_SUCH_QUEUE   G why wouldn't you also fail to remember to use some _other_ command that F DCL provided (at you present place of work where other people need the default printing behavior) ?   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:21:14 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: RE: Do we need a DCL debugger? 3 Message-ID: <OOQytLJEqDkP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEIDHOAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: D > Why not port bc from unix and pipe to it?  You will end with quiteF > an interpreter.  Regina REXX is also available for VMS and you mightI > lift some useful things out of there, unfortunately it is written in C.   F    bc is a PITA when I'm on UNIX and have to use it.  For non floatingF    point DCL is trivial to use compared to learning bc.  Let's keep it    that way.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:22:10 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? 3 Message-ID: <8K4ZSRMBh9dE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3F579283.BDDFAE01@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Tom Linden wrote:  >>  - >> Why not port bc from unix and pipe to it?   > K > If you really want VMS to take off big time, port Microsoft Office to VMS P > (cough, shudder). Disable/remove all the dangerous features and all those thatO > don't abide by standards and then make it a robust trustable system. You'd be C > selling VMS workstations by the tens of thousands to enterprises.   G    If you "Disable/remove all the dangerous features and all those that 7    don't abide by standards", you won't have much left.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:23:31 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: RE: Do we need a DCL debugger? 3 Message-ID: <wmqFGXfdKSNi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <1030904152655.3498A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > F > They're not really bugs.  The problem is the FTP RFC doesn't specifyC > the format of the information returned by "DIR" command (actually A > the LIST command at the FTP protocol level.)  Most Unix systems A > implement it by spawning and "ls -l" command, but the format of ( > its output isn't well-defined, either. > C > Browsers and graphical FTP clients (i.e. WS-FTP) use a collection B > of ad hoc rules to try to parse the directory output (figure outB > what part is the file name, what part is the size, whether it is4 > in bytes of blocks, parse the various dates, etc.)  G    That IS a bug.  The RFC specifically states that the output is human D    readable, not programmatically readable.  To then have a piece of+    software that tries to read it IS a bug.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:26:20 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? 3 Message-ID: <7HgdYSaBtwnG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <WzZ5b.35940$Nc.8246448@news1.news.adelphia.net>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:  E > Starting with 1.5 beta, Mozilla (on all platforms) will talk to an   > OpenVMS FTP server.   /    "an OpenVMS FTP server"?  Which one?  (UCX?)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 06:54:28 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ' Subject: RE: Do we need a DCL debugger? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEJIHOAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- A >From: Phillip Helbig [mailto:HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com] ) >Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 1:33 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? >  > > >> >> } OTOH, I don't see the point for FOR and WHILE or UNTIL >loops, that can" >> >> } easily be made with GOTOs, >> >> >> >If you implement FOR, WHILE , UNTIL loops, you should also >implement some L >> >BREAK statement that allows you to break out of the loop prematurely. Or2 >> >something less conventional, but more elegant: >> > >> >JUMPOUT label ! >> If you do this, please call it  >>K >> LEAVE [label] (if label is not supplied it drops to the first executable  >> after the loop)H >> so as not to superfluosly introduce yet another term into programming >  >What language uses LEAVE.   PL/I.    > J >Again, Fortran95 (and 90) got it right.  Model this stuff on EXIT {label} >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:13:07 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? < Message-ID: <7K16b.36009$Nc.8317328@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:  E >>Starting with 1.5 beta, Mozilla (on all platforms) will talk to an   >>OpenVMS FTP server.  >>     >> > 0 >   "an OpenVMS FTP server"?  Which one?  (UCX?) > A I tested with TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS, TCPware, and MultiNet.    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:12:25 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? ) Message-ID: <bja94p$i2u$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   P In article <3F57A0AF.5040802@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: >John Santos wrote:  > @ >> The real cure for this is for "them" to define a standard for5 >> FTP directory listings that everyone can stick to.  >>    % They did in RFC 959. Its called NLST. 8 An FTP client uses NLST to return the list of filenames.  < The LIST command is ONLY meant to be used as display output.M It is not meant to be parsed by any program. As the RFC states about the LIST  command   G "Since the information on a file may vary widely from system to system, J this information may be hard to use automatically in a program, but may be quite useful to a human user."    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      - >> Does anyone know if this is fixed in sftp?  > J >Isn't sftp just FTP over SSL? In which case, wouldn't "they" need to fix  >the FTP RFC (959) first?  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:43:30 -0500 * From: Patrick Spinler <pspinler@yahoo.com>' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? + Message-ID: <bjab0l$65f$1@tribune.mayo.edu>   G At least this particular ucx ftp server doesn't appear to support NLST:       $ ucx show version   B      Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2;      on a AlphaServer 4100 5/600 8MB running OpenVMS V7.3-1       $ ftp localhost5    220 XXXXX.YYYY.edu FTP Server (Version 5.3) Ready.     Connected to LOCALHOST.    Name (LOCALHOST:pjs11):)    331 Username pjs11 requires a Password     Password:    230 User logged in.    FTP> quote nlst6    425-Can't build data connection for 127.0.0.1,54446)    425 connect to network object rejected    -- Pat   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: R > In article <3F57A0AF.5040802@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: >  >>John Santos wrote: >> >>@ >>>The real cure for this is for "them" to define a standard for5 >>>FTP directory listings that everyone can stick to.  >>>  >  > ' > They did in RFC 959. Its called NLST. : > An FTP client uses NLST to return the list of filenames. > > > The LIST command is ONLY meant to be used as display output.O > It is not meant to be parsed by any program. As the RFC states about the LIST 	 > command  > I > "Since the information on a file may vary widely from system to system, L > this information may be hard to use automatically in a program, but may be  > quite useful to a human user." >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  >  > - >>>Does anyone know if this is fixed in sftp?  >>K >>Isn't sftp just FTP over SSL? In which case, wouldn't "they" need to fix   >>the FTP RFC (959) first? >>   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:20:23 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? ) Message-ID: <bja9jn$i2u$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>   [ In article <3F5806A4.A555F66F@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >Martin Hunt wrote: 	 >> [snip] H >> Ability to easily change the default SUBMIT behaviour to /NOPRINT - IH >> know there are workarounds, but it is frustrating to wonder where theH >> log file has gone, then realise that it has been printed and deleted.8 >> Does anyone actually want their log files doing this? > C >One not-so-obvious work-around for that is to not have a SYS$PRINT  >queue.  > F >You can also use the VERB utility to extract the definition of SUBMITH >and change the default value of the PRINT qualifier to be the name of a >non-existant queue. > & >More than one way to skin that cat... >   J How about SUBMIT/REMOTE to a queue other than sys$batch on the remote nodeK together with a /NOLOG or /NOPRINT to stop getting log files printed on the  remote node.      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  > ) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:54:58 -0400* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? 1 Message-ID: <fk26b.830$G1.5084@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   5 <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> a crit dans le message de # news:bja9jn$i2u$2@news.mdx.ac.uk... = > In article <3F5806A4.A555F66F@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: L > How about SUBMIT/REMOTE to a queue other than sys$batch on the remote nodeI > together with a /NOLOG or /NOPRINT to stop getting log files printed on  the  > remote node. >      I second that!   --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:59:31 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? ) Message-ID: <bjabt2$ir0$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   X In article <bjab0l$65f$1@tribune.mayo.edu>, Patrick Spinler <pspinler@yahoo.com> writes: > H >At least this particular ucx ftp server doesn't appear to support NLST: >  >   $ ucx show version > C >     Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2 < >     on a AlphaServer 4100 5/600 8MB running OpenVMS V7.3-1 >  >   $ ftp localhost 6 >   220 XXXXX.YYYY.edu FTP Server (Version 5.3) Ready. >   Connected to LOCALHOST.  >   Name (LOCALHOST:pjs11): * >   331 Username pjs11 requires a Password
 >   Password:  >   230 User logged in.  >   FTP> quote nlst 7 >   425-Can't build data connection for 127.0.0.1,54446 * >   425 connect to network object rejected >   D You are confusing the FTP client commands such as get, put, ls  with% the underlying FTP protocol commands. I LIST and NLST are the underlying protocol commands - EVERY FTP server and 0 CLIENT has to support those mandated by RFC 959.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >-- Pat  >   >david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:S >> In article <3F57A0AF.5040802@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:  >>   >>>John Santos wrote:  >>>  >>> A >>>>The real cure for this is for "them" to define a standard for 6 >>>>FTP directory listings that everyone can stick to. >>>> >>   >>  ( >> They did in RFC 959. Its called NLST.; >> An FTP client uses NLST to return the list of filenames.  >>  ? >> The LIST command is ONLY meant to be used as display output. P >> It is not meant to be parsed by any program. As the RFC states about the LIST
 >> command >>  J >> "Since the information on a file may vary widely from system to system,M >> this information may be hard to use automatically in a program, but may be ! >> quite useful to a human user."  >>   >>  
 >> David Webb  >> VMS and Unix team leader  >> CCSS  >> Middlesex University  >>   >>   >>   >>  . >>>>Does anyone know if this is fixed in sftp? >>> L >>>Isn't sftp just FTP over SSL? In which case, wouldn't "they" need to fix  >>>the FTP RFC (959) first?  >>>  >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 03 18:52:11 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? ) Message-ID: <G71RDVxTo4x1@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <3F5806A4.A555F66F@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Martin Hunt wrote:	 >> [snip]   >> An ElseIF would be handy, too >  > As in: >  > $ IF	condition > $ THEN > $	statement(s) > $ ELSE	IF	condition  > $	THEN > $		statement(s) 	 > $	ENDIF 	 > $ ENDIF  >  > ...? > 	 >> [snip] H >> Ability to easily change the default SUBMIT behaviour to /NOPRINT - IH >> know there are workarounds, but it is frustrating to wonder where theH >> log file has gone, then realise that it has been printed and deleted.8 >> Does anyone actually want their log files doing this? > D > One not-so-obvious work-around for that is to not have a SYS$PRINT > queue. > G > You can also use the VERB utility to extract the definition of SUBMIT I > and change the default value of the PRINT qualifier to be the name of a  > non-existant queue.  > ' > More than one way to skin that cat...  >    I typically have   $ SUBM*IT == SUBMIT/NOPRINT   B in my sylogin on my own systems, in login on other folks' systems.  , Another way is, within the batch job itself:   $ define sys$print nla0   = The latter is the only way I know of suppressing the printout  with SUBMIT/REMOTE   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 12:13:56 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: Do we need a DCL debugger? 3 Message-ID: <JfwmQ0iT5Iiq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <7K16b.36009$Nc.8317328@news1.news.adelphia.net>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: > F >>>Starting with 1.5 beta, Mozilla (on all platforms) will talk to an  >>>OpenVMS FTP server. >>>      >>>  >>1 >>   "an OpenVMS FTP server"?  Which one?  (UCX?)  >>C > I tested with TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS, TCPware, and MultiNet.   A    OK, so that's many OpenVMS FTP servers.  I don't recall having B    a problem with my Multinet server, though, with Netscape or IE.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 01:57:08 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> 5 Subject: Re: Documentation for $setenv system service < Message-ID: <howard-E14E6B.01570805092003@enews.newsguy.com>  2 In article <BB7BE7BE.B4F4%JCam90502@jcameron.com>,-  Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> wrote:   B > Can anyone provide documentation for the $setenv system service?  H You should be able to find this on the documentation site in the System D Services Reference Manual... but you can't!  Hm!  I found $GETENV() I <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4527/4527pro_055.html#index_x_573 G > but not $SETENV()  .... booting my VAX...  nothing there either.  :-(     C > I have a need to update the LCD display. Is there another method?   H From what I've been able to determine from looking at the docs (which I E did for this purpose about a year ago), the $SETENV service can only  H modify a subset of console environment variables.  That subset does NOT F include OCP_TEXT, if I remember correctly.  Even if it did, I seem to A recall that to get OCP_TEXT to take effect requires INITting the   console, which sucks.   I I mainly use OCP_TEXT for labeling the machine with its node name, but I  C can do that with label tape.  And label tape has more room.  <sigh>    --  # Today, on Paper-view: Pulp Fiction!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:52:03 +0400 < From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelelecom{dot}RU># Subject: HLR for CDMA under OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <866E0899D4235635B11D1393A572966F@nntp>    Hi All! E 	I looking for an information about of  a Home Location Registry (for D CDMA200/IS-95/IMT-MC-450)  running under OpenVMS/DECSS7. Is there so
 software ?   	TIA.    --  F + WBR, OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .................................+D Delta Telecom Inc., NMT-450i, IMT-MC-450(CDMA2000) cellular operatorE Russia,191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3 Cel: +7 (812) 116-3222 F +http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru ............. Frying on OpenVMS only +   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:22:52 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca># Subject: HP *ALMOST* Advertised VMS 9 Message-ID: <bja67t$gsjc4$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>   = This, http://h71000.www7.hp.com/usps.html, had me excited for < a few minutes, until I checked out every link on the page to> find that VMS did not appear on any of them (unless you create= a cut-out that blocks out everything except the second letter = of the first word, the first letter of the ninth word and the 2 last letter of the ninth word on the two-page ad).  9 Maybe we should all print a few million stickers that say = "Hey, they're talking about VMS here!" and hit every magazine : stand in our areas inserting the sticker in every magazine they run the ad in?    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 10:19:35 -0700 / From: kenneth.randell@verizon.net (Ken Randell) ' Subject: Re: HP *ALMOST* Advertised VMS = Message-ID: <79de9693.0309050919.2481b354@posting.google.com>   } "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<bja67t$gsjc4$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>... ? > This, http://h71000.www7.hp.com/usps.html, had me excited for > > a few minutes, until I checked out every link on the page to@ > find that VMS did not appear on any of them (unless you create? > a cut-out that blocks out everything except the second lettere? > of the first word, the first letter of the ninth word and thep4 > last letter of the ninth word on the two-page ad). > ; > Maybe we should all print a few million stickers that say ? > "Hey, they're talking about VMS here!" and hit every magazineo< > stand in our areas inserting the sticker in every magazine > they run the ad in?e  > This sentence is in the first big paragraph of the URL listed:  C HP AlphaServer systems running OpenVMS play a key role in scanning,o/ processing and distributing each piece of mail.b  : I could not find it in the ad itself.  There is mention of
 AlphaServers.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 03:24:46 -0400D* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>. Subject: Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived) Message-ID: <3F583A31.B500FC89@istop.com>g   Bill Todd wrote:H > HP was selling its McKinley systems for the full year under discussion > (July, 2002 - June, 2003).  K But had it made some serious marketing launch for those systems ? Did thoseiH systems have names, product line nam,e etc as does the recently launched Integrity line ?  I Did any serious customers buy pre-integrety systems to run their business L (HP-UX) on, or was it almost exclusively ISVs and pilot projects to see what1 the new platform woudl be like for porting etc ? O  E Until HP launched integrity, I had seen 0 signs that HP was expecting < customers to actually adopt IA64 for production right away.     N > While those were only 2- and 4-processor systems, those systems were exactlyJ > the kind predicted (even as recently as last year) to take the commodity > world by storm h  N Intel and HP long ago admitted that IA64 wouldn't become "commodity" (industryJ definition) when they admitted that it wouldn't take the desktop. This wasM between Merced and McKinley as I recall. So for a long while now, it has beenv8 a given that IA64 wouldn't reach 8086 production levels.  L So, with IA64 restricted to "enterprise computing", it must then be comparedL to Sparc, Alpha, Power4 , PaRisc, and MIPS. Until IA64 exceeds the levels ofM Alpha, then IA64 remains even more proprietary, low volume than Alpha. And ifoK Alpha failed because of those low numbers, logically, IA64 should also failiN for same reasons. Question is : how long can IA64 remain at low volumes before7 Intel is forced to pull the plug on this costly beast ?             H > competitive with the existing RISC contenders.  It wasn't because theyJ > lacked the cachet (so to speak) of a Microsoft OS:  stable 64-bit Itanic9 > Windows releases have existed for close to 2 years now.    Are you sure about that ? O What version of Windows is available as a full 64 bit implementation for IA64 ?,    L > annually.  Recently, he may have amended that to 100K Alpha *processors* -  H Then IA64 has a long way to go. But with the potential to combine Alpha,F PaRisc and Mips numbers, IA64 should, in theory, be able to exceed the original sales of Alpha etc.  F However, since Alpha, and I assume PaRisc, systems will continue to beF available for some time, I suspect that IA64 sales will continue to beK unimpressive since customers will be reluctant to spend their own money forl  the unwanted migration to IA64.   M Of course, HP will slowly increase Alpha and PaRisc maintenance costs so thatrE customers will eventually see some financial incentive to pay for the K migration to the unwanted IA64. But those increased costs will also make HPf" less competitive with IBM and Sun.  M Alpha brought 64 bit computing and potential for much greater speed than VAX.eN IA64 brings nothing to customers who are already at 64 bits with faster alphas
 or PaRisc.  H In the case of VMS, since HP does no marketing, we can't expect many newL customers. And old customers will much prefer to add/upgrade alphas to theirJ existing fleet of servers rather than start to add a different server that* requires different versions of everything.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 02:56:40 -0700u. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon). Subject: Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived= Message-ID: <7500353b.0309050156.4509294a@posting.google.com>e  < > > In an enterprise environment, isn't 3000 a fair number ? >  > No.  >  > - bill  D I'd say thats a matter of perspective. From y2000 the power of boxesF has grown and continues to grow. So new businesses replacing big boxesF buy equivalent performance working with VMS meaning smaller boxes. VMSE as I've seen it happeing is not growing, its disappearing from largeraF systems. People have old systems and only reason they buy a new box isC to keep the system going, not to build new systems on it. This 'new % system' may be Itanium or Charon-Vax.s  C I agree with Bill that in global enterprise environment it is not a D fair number, but in VMS area it might be the future. And it may alsoE be that the larger VMS boxes targeted to 2005 onwards will never come-D if majority of customers will be content with small boxes. Of courseA there is no denial of whether there are really large systems, buttD whats the percentage of these on the market in using modern MIPS (or VUPS) ?m  , As for other amusing things : This slideshowD http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/08/29/3410320 shows thatC HP owns 80+ percentage of the Itanium market. In the perspective of C this thread this means either that 80+ means nearly 100% or that if F its 80% and those 74 boxes are 20%, meaning that the actual sales were 296 boxes :)  C One may question why Itanium sells +3000 boxes in HP and only 74 in)A other vendors. Is it because HP is much better ? This is standardmC iron, so it shouldnt be. Or is it because HP is giving them free tonD developers (figure for shipped units != units sold to customers). OrE is it because of VMS ? It would be interested to get official figurespE from HP directly, but I doubt they'll give them and for good reasons.n   Good questions, arent they ?   Mt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:06:09 GMTf  From: CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net>. Subject: Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived* Message-ID: <3F58A6AB.1020408@prodigy.net>   mist dragon wrote:  ; >>>In an enterprise environment, isn't 3000 a fair number ?r >> >>No.0 >> >>- bill >  > F > I'd say thats a matter of perspective. From y2000 the power of boxesH > has grown and continues to grow. So new businesses replacing big boxesH > buy equivalent performance working with VMS meaning smaller boxes. VMSG > as I've seen it happeing is not growing, its disappearing from largeroH > systems. People have old systems and only reason they buy a new box isE > to keep the system going, not to build new systems on it. This 'newu' > system' may be Itanium or Charon-Vax.  > E > I agree with Bill that in global enterprise environment it is not a-F > fair number, but in VMS area it might be the future. And it may alsoG > be that the larger VMS boxes targeted to 2005 onwards will never comexF > if majority of customers will be content with small boxes. Of courseC > there is no denial of whether there are really large systems, but F > whats the percentage of these on the market in using modern MIPS (or	 > VUPS) ?  > . > As for other amusing things : This slideshowF > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/08/29/3410320 shows thatE > HP owns 80+ percentage of the Itanium market. In the perspective ofiE > this thread this means either that 80+ means nearly 100% or that ifmH > its 80% and those 74 boxes are 20%, meaning that the actual sales were > 296 boxes :) > E > One may question why Itanium sells +3000 boxes in HP and only 74 ineC > other vendors. Is it because HP is much better ? This is standard  > iron, so it shouldnt be. y  @ It takes a pretty extended definition of "standard" to make that sentence work.  + >Or is it because HP is giving them free toiF > developers (figure for shipped units != units sold to customers). OrG > is it because of VMS ? It would be interested to get official figuresnG > from HP directly, but I doubt they'll give them and for good reasons.e >  > Good questions, arent they ? >  > M-   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 09:19:03 -0700i' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)i. Subject: Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived= Message-ID: <734da31c.0309050819.7853ee98@posting.google.com>e  s mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) wrote in message news:<7500353b.0309050156.4509294a@posting.google.com>...s > E > I agree with Bill that in global enterprise environment it is not ayF > fair number, but in VMS area it might be the future. And it may alsoG > be that the larger VMS boxes targeted to 2005 onwards will never comei< > if majority of customers will be content with small boxes.  E I have not seen that there will be larger "VMS boxes" produced? TheretA will be larger Itanium boxes, and they will be able to run HP-UX,iE Windows, Linux and VMS. HP also seem to promote VMS as a large systemq6 OS, look at the strong relationship with StorageWorks.  . > As for other amusing things : This slideshowF > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/08/29/3410320 shows thatE > HP owns 80+ percentage of the Itanium market. In the perspective oftE > this thread this means either that 80+ means nearly 100% or that if-H > its 80% and those 74 boxes are 20%, meaning that the actual sales were > 296 boxes :)  B I don't see how we can relate those figures to the IDC Q2 figures.  E > One may question why Itanium sells +3000 boxes in HP and only 74 inHC > other vendors. Is it because HP is much better ? This is standardtE > iron, so it shouldnt be. Or is it because HP is giving them free to	F > developers (figure for shipped units != units sold to customers). OrG > is it because of VMS ? It would be interested to get official figures G > from HP directly, but I doubt they'll give them and for good reasons.e  E HP most likely advertise Itanium more than the others, and HP's boxesp? also have better chip-sets. I think customers today buy ItaniumhE systems to run HP-UX in the first place, then Windows/Linux. There istD no big reason to buy an Itanium system today to run VMS. When VMS is* ready there will be better systems to buy.   > Good questions, arent they ?  5 Not much new really, hardly adding anything of value.    /David   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:06:45 -04000* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>. Subject: Re: New Itanium sales figures arrived) Message-ID: <3F58B494.A1368CD9@istop.com>h   mist dragon wrote:E > One may question why Itanium sells +3000 boxes in HP and only 74 inyC > other vendors. Is it because HP is much better ? This is standardb > iron, so it shouldnt be.    L HP is the only vendor who has made such an in depth commitment to IA64,  theK others are just producing token "pilot project" IA64 based systems for now.  (and probably later).   G Had Compaq survived, perhaps IA64 wouldn't be primarily a single vendor N proprietary chip with HP and Compaq competing with neither having such a largeL percentage of the IA64 market. But with Compaq gone, HP is the only one leftK so it is perfectly normal that HP be , by far, the only major vendor basingl  its business on that IA64 thing.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:29:32 GMTe/ From: "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-TXGIP2FdG7dt@localhost>E  C On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:51:47 UTC, John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> t wrote:   > "Dave Weatherall" wrote: > F > Sounds like the RSX-11M editor  EDI. On an 11/60 with only 128MW of F > RAM and more than two users, EDT felt painfully slow, so I stuck to C > EDI. And then came VAX and VMS so EDT became the norm. Now I use 1 > Anker's SEDT.T >  > John Sauter responded: > C > I'm sorry to hear that EDT was painfully slow.  We tuned it for a C > PDP-11/05 with one or two users, and I thought it was acceptable,>C > but everyone has different expectations.  Certainly it was faster 
 > on the VAX.s > @ > I was the project leader for EDT version 3, and the person who@ > enticed me to move to New Hampshire, Alton Ryder, was involved > with the PDP-11/60.f' >     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)l   Hi JohniA                  well I did say 'felt' :-) and I have to say the  E machine was also being used for our main analysis work. There were a tD lot of I/O inefficiencies in the way that worked that didn't become B wholly apparent until we started to improve the VMS version after F 'porting' from Macro-11, through Macro-32/VEST to DEC-Fortran! BetweenD the two things, the pdp11/60 was often working very hard indeed. In F addition, some 4KW, or more, was given over as Shared Global areas so F IIRC we actually only had about 112Kw of  'normal' memory. But that's  20 years ago now...   F I seem to remember reducing EDT's priority from 50 to 49 to ensure it @ didn't punt the tool out of memory. RMD was a very good tool to E observe the behaviour. Somebody mentioned rececently how they missed o RMD when they went to VMS.   -- t Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:54:20 GMT2' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net>r$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates8 Message-ID: <sjqglvouget4qaegfu6obd6ir3c4dbk4dm@4ax.com>   "Dave Weatherall"  wrote:<   Hi John3A                  well I did say 'felt' :-) and I have to say the .E machine was also being used for our main analysis work. There were a aD lot of I/O inefficiencies in the way that worked that didn't become B wholly apparent until we started to improve the VMS version after F 'porting' from Macro-11, through Macro-32/VEST to DEC-Fortran! BetweenD the two things, the pdp11/60 was often working very hard indeed. In F addition, some 4KW, or more, was given over as Shared Global areas so F IIRC we actually only had about 112Kw of  'normal' memory. But that's  20 years ago now...e  F I seem to remember reducing EDT's priority from 50 to 49 to ensure it @ didn't punt the tool out of memory. RMD was a very good tool to E observe the behaviour. Somebody mentioned rececently how they missed e RMD when they went to VMS.   John Sauter responded:  A Humph!  The nerve!  Reducing EDT's priority is not what we had injA mind.  You should have increased EDT's priority, since editing is + obviously more important than analysis.  :)R%     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)a   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:45:23 -0000(4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>B Subject: Re: pgp 2.6.3ia multi05 finally running on OpenVMS V7.3-15 Message-ID: <20030905074523.8635.qmail@gacracker.org>r  8 On 4 Sep 2003, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:6 >Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message$ >news:<bhg2a4$4aa$1@lore.csc.com>... >> "Doc.Cypher" wrote: >> > kE >> > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:r >> > >Nic Clews wrote: >>  H >> > >The object libraries linked OK on [Alpha] 7.2-2 as well (I did notL >> > >attempt a build). It provides support for up to 8192 bit key length as3 >> > >well as an impressive array of compatibility.d >> > oN >> > Disastry reported a problem verifying signatures on keys when he built it2 >> > here, I don't know if that was ever resolved. >> -G >> If someone can reproduce the problem or knows more about the issues,.+ >> I'll give it a shot with this version...: > > >I would like to compile this under c 6.0 on alpha 7.1-1h2 ... >will this work?  	 Probably.F  K Grab a copy from http://vmsbox.cjb.net/pgp/, unzip and look for the command  file.w  E It'll give a slew of warnings but you should get a usable executable.u  L I'll happily host a more friendly build if someone has one they've worked onJ and are happy to share.  It'll go nicely with something I rescued with the9 WayBack machine - http://vmsbox.cjb.net/HowPGPWorks.html.s     Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.IK [New PGP Key - Get via finger]                        http://vmsbox.cjb.nett   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:05:20 +0100-& From: Nic Clews <spamhere@[127.0.0.1]>B Subject: Re: pgp 2.6.3ia multi05 finally running on OpenVMS V7.3-1' Message-ID: <bj9n1o$h1n$1@lore.csc.com>e   Doc.Cypher wrote:N  : > On 4 Sep 2003, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: > 7 >>Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message % >>news:<bhg2a4$4aa$1@lore.csc.com>...e >> >>>"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >>> D >>>>On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Nic Clews wrote:  >>>c >>>  >>> G >>>>>The object libraries linked OK on [Alpha] 7.2-2 as well (I did nothK >>>>>attempt a build). It provides support for up to 8192 bit key length asa2 >>>>>well as an impressive array of compatibility. >>>>M >>>>Disastry reported a problem verifying signatures on keys when he built ite1 >>>>here, I don't know if that was ever resolved.  >>>tG >>>If someone can reproduce the problem or knows more about the issues,C+ >>>I'll give it a shot with this version...   @ There is a problem with the keys. I've not had time to properly H investigate it, despite claiming 8192, when trying to use the multi5 to E work with an existing keyring (and check the keys) or generate a new a4 key, it complains as you describe. This is at 7.2-2.  > Bob, if you have any luck or similar experiences, let me know.   -- g? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences, nclews at csc dot comb   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 13:43:49 -0000o4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>B Subject: Re: pgp 2.6.3ia multi05 finally running on OpenVMS V7.3-16 Message-ID: <20030905134349.15338.qmail@gacracker.org>  8 On 5 Sep 2003, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:@ >Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message2 >news:<20030905074523.8635.qmail@gacracker.org>...   <snip>  N >> Grab a copy from http://vmsbox.cjb.net/pgp/, unzip and look for the command >> file. >> IH >> It'll give a slew of warnings but you should get a usable executable. >>  O >> I'll happily host a more friendly build if someone has one they've worked on M >> and are happy to share.  It'll go nicely with something I rescued with the,< >> WayBack machine - http://vmsbox.cjb.net/HowPGPWorks.html. >>   >> o >> Doc.t > > >that sounds dandy, but unfortunately the links you gave don't >work ... :)  J The disk went into MountVerify (happens once every 2-3 months).  Give them another go shortly.      Doc. -- pK OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.iK [New PGP Key - Get via finger]                        http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 05:37:40 -0700u( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)B Subject: Re: pgp 2.6.3ia multi05 finally running on OpenVMS V7.3-1= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0309050437.4803e7bd@posting.google.com>   q Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20030905074523.8635.qmail@gacracker.org>.../: > On 4 Sep 2003, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:8 > >Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message& > >news:<bhg2a4$4aa$1@lore.csc.com>... > >> "Doc.Cypher" wrote: > >> > sG > >> > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:9 > >> > >Nic Clews wrote: >  .J > >> > >The object libraries linked OK on [Alpha] 7.2-2 as well (I did notN > >> > >attempt a build). It provides support for up to 8192 bit key length as5 > >> > >well as an impressive array of compatibility.C > >> > iP > >> > Disastry reported a problem verifying signatures on keys when he built it4 > >> > here, I don't know if that was ever resolved. > >> mI > >> If someone can reproduce the problem or knows more about the issues,$- > >> I'll give it a shot with this version...8 > >r@ > >I would like to compile this under c 6.0 on alpha 7.1-1h2 ... > >will this work? >  > Probably.s > M > Grab a copy from http://vmsbox.cjb.net/pgp/, unzip and look for the commandt > file.  > G > It'll give a slew of warnings but you should get a usable executable.t > N > I'll happily host a more friendly build if someone has one they've worked onL > and are happy to share.  It'll go nicely with something I rescued with the; > WayBack machine - http://vmsbox.cjb.net/HowPGPWorks.html.r >  >  > Doc.  = that sounds dandy, but unfortunately the links you gave don'tl work ... :)m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:40:57 GMTx& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: RdB on EVA ? 8 Message-ID: <n18hlv0bna4n180uhnlhd00i9f1sc482g6@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:40:01 +0200, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:r   >>  Q >In general it is recommended to put files with mainly random access on one disk  E >group, and mainly sequentially accessed files on another disk group.u >r- >Within the disk groups you define your luns.   H I do not believe that this is true (at least, not anymore, not sure when you learned this).  F There is a balance between flexibility, manageability, and performanceI here.  I really doubt you'd be able to measure much significant gain frompG the effort to split these into two groups.  If you've got 100 spindles,nJ splitting into 50 for sequential and 50 for random access will not provide9 much benefit from just leaving all 100 in the same group.F   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:45:28 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: RdB on EVA ?18 Message-ID: <c68hlv81t1b7tsmtdgnfptmg0dth21bcbm@4ax.com>  K On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:33:17 +0200, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:   ; >The minimum requirement must be that a *single* disk crashrG >must *not* crash *both* your primaly data file(s) *and* the AIJ files.  >y3 >No matter *what* disk/storage subsystem is in use.s >N  D That "minimum requirement" can be covered in a single group by usingK sparing levels in the group configuration, as well as VRAID levels for eachaA individual LUN.  The thing I'm wondering, though, is whether thisiH "requirement", as defined, assumes 5-6 drive RAID sets.  Certainly thoseG smaller sets shouldn't incur multiple outages simultaneously.  However, K when you get 200+ disks in a group, it becomes statistically more likely to 7 occur for the 'group' (though not necessarily the LUN).o  J So you want to determine your risk based on potential outages in:  HBA, FC@ ports, controller, controller pair, shelf, group, lun.  And plan1 accordingly based on the risk, value, and budget.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:27:16 +0200R From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: RdB on EVA ?e2 Message-ID: <bjah6e$i7p$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   jlsue wrote:E > On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:40:01 +0200, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote:n >  > R >>In general it is recommended to put files with mainly random access on one disk F >>group, and mainly sequentially accessed files on another disk group. >>. >>Within the disk groups you define your luns. >  > J > I do not believe that this is true (at least, not anymore, not sure when > you learned this).  Q HPQ storage engineers gave me this advice several times over the past years, the yP last time during a hands-on session at HP world 2003 in Atlanta a few weeks ago.  O A good example would be to put Oracle redo files on a 'sequential' disk group, t0 and the database files on a 'random' disk group.     > H > There is a balance between flexibility, manageability, and performanceK > here.  I really doubt you'd be able to measure much significant gain fromnI > the effort to split these into two groups.  If you've got 100 spindles,aL > splitting into 50 for sequential and 50 for random access will not provide; > much benefit from just leaving all 100 in the same group.-  M I can imagine that the automatic tuning algorithm of the EVA can distinguish lN between sequential and random access, thus optimizing disk groups accordingly.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 04:31:21 -0700- From: bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede)s( Subject: Re: read on socket returns zero< Message-ID: <8a3b834.0309050331.6de2cba3@posting.google.com>  K I am receving following error after read , I have following code for read :t  9 I am not sure if its blocking but i have following code :l   // Function_One () ...  7 int socke = ::socket(PF_INET,SOCK_STREAM, IPPROTO_TCP);  .... .... if(!blockingconnect)#    ONE_Socket::setNonBlocking(...);n ....  # int conne = ::connect(socke, ....);s ....   if (conne ==0) {     if (blockingconnect)-&       ONE_Socket::setNonBlocking(...);    ....(    return ONE_OK;@ }h else {. .... }c ....          for (int i = 0; ; i++)s     { 2 	// Read the bytes that are waiting on the socket:  ; 	int n = ONE_Socket::read(_socket, buffer, sizeof(buffer));w   	if (n > 0)  	{ 	  Print "size of data", time.	         }p         else	         { >           if ( (n == - 1 && ONE_Socket::would_block() || n==0)           {r)            Print "data size", error, time4            close_connection();           } 	         }h     }    //End of Function_One ...e  C The first READ in the loops reads 16 Bytes (which is correct size.)SL Second read continues for 30 seconds, and fails with zero bytes and errno 9.? Which is "#define EBADF            9     /* Bad file  number */a' and is due to a close from server side.   A The message displayed on server side is "CONN(Accept) timedout)".l   int ONE_Socket::read(.....)  {    int retu = 0;i     do o     { ) 	retu = ::read(socket, (char*)ptr, size);p     } )     while (retu == -1 && errno == EINTR);s     return retu;   d }d   Rgds,5 Bhushani   "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net> wrote in message news:<mmR5b.35835$Nc.8123598@news1.news.adelphia.net>...5< > "Bhushan Narkhede" <bhushann@hotmail.com> wrote in message8 > news:8a3b834.0309040529.7d6c345d@posting.google.com...H > > Thing is the Accept on server timesout(on Windows) and the socket is
 >  closed.I > > Due to which the read is receiving zero and the connection is closed.a > L > You didn't set the socket nonblocking, did you?  This would be the typical > return if no data is present.o > J > The return of zero indicates the read failed for some reason.  What's in > errno? >  > -Johnh >  >  > >m/ > > The Client with the read call (on VMS) is :a > >y > > UCX> sh vers > >sD > >   Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 58 > >   on a AlphaStation 255/233 running OpenVMS V7.1-1H1 > >  > >DC > > Is there an issue with this particular release/path of VMS/UCX.e > > / > > Another machine with following works fine :  > > UCX> sho verst > >>D > >   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 19 > >   on a AlphaServer 800 5/333 running OpenVMS V7.1-1H2- > >-	 > > Rgds,- > > Bhushane > >e > >1   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:58:06 GMTD; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>e( Subject: Re: read on socket returns zero< Message-ID: <2w16b.36001$Nc.8313891@news1.news.adelphia.net>  : "Bhushan Narkhede" <bhushann@hotmail.com> wrote in message6 news:8a3b834.0309050331.6de2cba3@posting.google.com...K > I am receving following error after read , I have following code for readI :  > ; > I am not sure if its blocking but i have following code :g >h > // Function_One () ... > 9 > int socke = ::socket(PF_INET,SOCK_STREAM, IPPROTO_TCP);t > .... > .... > if(!blockingconnect)% >    ONE_Socket::setNonBlocking(...);  > .... > % > int conne = ::connect(socke, ....);t > .... >l > if (conne ==0) > {n >    if (blockingconnect)d( >       ONE_Socket::setNonBlocking(...);	 >    ....  >    return ONE_OK;V > }t > else > {a > .... > }t > .... >I >  >n >h >  for (int i = 0; ; i++)h >     {u3 > // Read the bytes that are waiting on the socket:  > < > int n = ONE_Socket::read(_socket, buffer, sizeof(buffer)); >  > if (n > 0) > {I >   Print "size of data", time.  >         }i >         else >         {m@ >           if ( (n == - 1 && ONE_Socket::would_block() || n==0)
 >           { + >            Print "data size", error, timei  >            close_connection();
 >           }- >         }- >     }  >e > //End of Function_One ...  >mE > The first READ in the loops reads 16 Bytes (which is correct size.)DK > Second read continues for 30 seconds, and fails with zero bytes and errnog 9.A > Which is "#define EBADF            9     /* Bad file  number */n) > and is due to a close from server side.  >hC > The message displayed on server side is "CONN(Accept) timedout)".  >l > int ONE_Socket::read(.....)r > {  >   int retu = 0;  >     do >     {P* > retu = ::read(socket, (char*)ptr, size); >     }C+ >     while (retu == -1 && errno == EINTR);N >     return retu; > }m >  > Rgds,T	 > Bhushan   G So your program does a connect(), then reads data that the server sendsN down?   K The snippet looks really disorganized in that I can't really get a sense of0 what's happeningH with the "blockingconnect" value unknown as well as the arguments to the
 block and theg connect arguments as well.  L Note that if you leave the socket non-blocking inadvertently your reads will return zero bytesa* if there is no data present on the socket.  K Your message on the server is not right in that accept does not "time out".  It either acceptscJ or fails (in nonblocking mode), or accepts or waits to accept (in blocking mode).  H If your "second read" is terminating with zero after waiting 30 seconds, then your server isuE apparently closing the socket (as you said), but did it actually send  anything down?  YouuK got 16 bytes (nice round number) -- does the server send any more or expectt a response?r   -Johng   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:27:49 GMTN9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>t Subject: Re: Serial console 1 Message-ID: <9Q26b.4114$fG.2827@news.cpqcorp.net>v  J My guess is that the ISA bridge is enumerated before the slot you have theJ card in.  I didn't realize that a disabled ISA card would still be seen inG the enumeration... but it makes sense.  That way, your devices will notn+ change controller letters if you enable it.   D "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message" news:bj5ogh$24h$1@pcls4.std.com...= > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:R >  >jJ > >The controller letter depends on the bus order.  Apparently the ISA busL > >devices are enumerated first.  The device still shows up because you haveK > >not removed the ISA entry (if it's an EISA bus, the EISA config utility.  IfF > >it's ISA, normally the ISACFG console command, or the hardwired ISA > >configuration file).. >.J > Yes it's still in the ISACFG console command, just with enable=no.  LeftB > it that way in case I wanted to reinstall it, which I never did. > C > Didn't realize ISA devices were enabled first nor that a disabled+2 > device would have its controller letter skipped. >2 >  > -- > -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:56:47 +0200A& From: Bob Marcan <bob.marcan@aster.si># Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstream.1 Message-ID: <x5Z5b.2146$2B6.494636@news.siol.net>h   Mike Naime wrote: 1 > So, use aVMS keyboard for all of your PC stuff.p > J > I have a console switch for accessing all of my PC's at home.  And guess1 > what.  I have an LK-461-A2 keyboard on it.  :-)e >   H I'm too using LK461 to connect thru CPQ KVM to Tru64, VMS, Linux and M$ E Windows. On Linux with Xmodmap and xterm fixup (*vt100.translations: eI #override\) makes me happy. VMS and Tru64 just works. On Windows i don't tI need this bl.... internet keys. And i have 2 or 3 LK461 spare keyboards, e0 so i hope it'll last to end of my life (i'm 53).  
 Just for fun.v< It's an awfull translation, but i hope you'll understand :-)  & I send this mail to one of my friends: ... : http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/09/03/HNmsmice_1.html>  ! The next thing will be joystick ?M ...A Reply: ... 	 Oh, no...DI If i understand this thing properly, it is a wheel which you can move to v) left and right (like a some kind of ball)   , Do you still remeber how the mouse was born?D At the beginning it was tracking ball (a ball which can you move to  either direction ...)uE Then someone tought it will be better to turn the tracking ball head  ; down and driving it on the table. And the mouse was born...t  H What i see now is the M$ is putting some kind of tracking ball on mouse.= Hm. Logical step ahead is a little mouse mounted on mouse ...n   lp,  Ench ...p   Best regards, Bob    -- lA   Bob Marcan                             mailto:bob.marcan@snt.sinA   Aster^H^H...HermesPlus^H^H^H...S&T   mailto:bob.marcan@aster.sisA   Nade Ovcakove 1                       tel:    +386 (1) 5894-329sA   1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia                      http://www.snt.sip   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 05:46:21 -0500s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Switch Frm DECNet+ to Phase IV 3 Message-ID: <4ve15I+92zM+@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  ] In article <jdadnUp4QbaEZMqiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>, Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> writes:j  H > When Phase V was being (pre?)-introduced we attended several seminars I > about it, and the fact that a dedicated routing box would be mandatory hG > (because the systems themselves would not do it) was clearly stated. mK > Glad DEC changed their minds (not surprised though, since I'm sure a lot eG > of companies echoed mine in being quite unhappy with that situation).i  I They were probably won over by the customer response "You mean the job isnI so tough that even your new _Alpha_ processor cannot handle it ?".  As ite/ ended up, the fix was architecture-independent.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:41:05 GMTx9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>iG Subject: Re: Using multiple Radeon 7500 PCI cards in a DS10 running VMS 1 Message-ID: <B036b.4118$eI.3258@news.cpqcorp.net>   H Just as a note.  I've never seen a "freeze for up to a minute" doing anyI type of graphics operation on this card.  And we've sent lots and lots ofiA stuff "quickly" to it.  This sounds more to me like something notwK responding, or being dropped - and then a timeout of some sort.  If it werebH in the graphics code and took that long, I would expect to see a message about a timeout.  H But.  Here (until it expires probably in a day or so) is the latest code( that will be in the next release of VMS.   FTP xfer.americas.digital.comi  ; login as anonymous with your email address as the password.    FTP> cd to_customer  FTP> bin FTP> get decw$server_ddx_p3.exei FTP> get sys$gfdriver.exei FTP> ^Zo  I Note that this is a blind account, so you can't ls.  Also, the account isgC purged periodically so you need to get it within the next few days.   H Put the files in the usual places (sys$library, sys$loadable_images) and reboot.o  L This code removes any PIO, and does a fairly well optimized DMA-only output.G It will appear in V7.3-2 and some unscheduled future "update" patch forl V7.3-1.    _Fredi  / "Mike Mouat" <mouat@triumf.ca> wrote in messagen7 news:995241af.0309041528.50454c4c@posting.google.com...-F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message. news:<Nso5b.3965$tM5.3614@news.cpqcorp.net>...3 > > "Mike Mouat" <mouat@triumf.ca> wrote in message ; > > news:995241af.0309021645.4650b4a5@posting.google.com...l >oE > >>We have used multiple 3DLabs VX1 graphics cards in a DS10 runningoH > >>VMS. Unfortunately we appear to see a bug (graphics freeze for up toE > >>a minute) when X windows graphics are sent quickly to one or morelH > >>screens (this hangup does not happen when the same graphics are sent, > >>to a VXT2000 or to a PC running XWin32). > = > >First I've heard of this.  Do you have a support contract?o > G > We have support for VMS and DMQ but I don't think we have support for4< > Motif (the person with the contracts is away for a month). >A > >Please file a bug report. >oA > In the old days I would sent off an SPR. I am not sure what thes > equivalentF > is these days (without a contract for support) but I am willingly toH > document what we see and send the information on. If the 3DLabs VX1 isC > nearing end-of-life then the effort to chase a potential bug, notfG > previously seen before, may not be warranted by HP. If you would like E > me to report this issue, please let me know the appropriate channelo! > and I will be happy to proceed.f >r > >Do you have a reproducer? >.F > It can not be reproduced at will so I cannot provide a piece of code > thatG > "immediately" demostrates the problem. The problem can be demostratedtE > within a finite time (wait a few seconds up to a minute or two). Ife
 > desired,= > I can speak with some of our programmers about stubbing oute > specialized codeE > and trying to produce a configuration that someone else can run andd	 > see the @ > problem. Our X window display application is part of a package
 > (several3 > shared images, PCI hardware you won't have, etc).s >s > >What version of VMS?m >a > VMS 7.3-1o >h > >Version of Motif? >h > DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-6s >n( > >Is it normal multi-head or Panaramix? >MD > I think it must be a normal multi-head, just 2 or 3 VX1s in a DS10	 > runningeH > standalone (This problem also happens with just one head).I don't know > what Panaramix is. > A > >Is there anything unusual in the DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG file?s >u > No.t >h! > >>We bought a Radeon 7500 board G > >>and installed it and the new driver. With one card in the system itsE > >>runs well and the freeze-ups are gone. If we put a second card inwF > >>the DS10, the console recognizes both cards (GHA0 and GHB0) and atE > >>system  boot the system sees both devices but neither screen goesiF > >>into graphics mode when the boot is complete. One screen goes into> > >>serial mode. The console has its "console" variable set to > "graphics"F > >>and is running firmware version 6.5. Are multiple Radeon 7500s not > >>supported? > C > >Correct.  The primary requirement for the initial kit was single( > headed AGP > >graphics on EV7 systems.u >mD > >> If they are not currently supported will they be in the future? > >> >p< > >In about 3-4 weeks.  We are in final qual for multi-head. >a > Good news. >e$ > Thank you very much for your help, >- > Mike   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:33:20 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>K Subject: Re: VMS is being ported to Itanium - but will there be any supportr/ Message-ID: <00A25708.71C81E82.3@tachysoft.com>0   >>H >> That perspective neglects to take into account that many of us formerD >> DEC employees are still in the business of supporting VMS systems= >> and are gearing up to support Alpha to Itanium migrations.e >> >o& >True, but we are a distributed bunch.E >Do we need an 'umbrella' organisation to grab the public attention ? F >We could all contract our services to that entity and act as local orG >specialist support resources to satisfy the customer demand. If we alltL >contributed to the pot, a major publicity campaign could become affordable. >h  N Those of us who are not former dec employees, but vms specialists nonetheless,' could also cooperate in such a venture. O ===============================================================================rN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   hO ===============================================================================sN Butler:"Gentlemen!"  Curly(as he and other Stooges look around):"Who came in?"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:57:42 +0100( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>Y Subject: Re: VMS is being ported to Itanium - but will there be any support when it arrivs9 Message-ID: <bj9q9h$g8qeq$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>)  9 "Rob Lyons" <rob.lyons@resilientsys.com> wrote in messagea% news:bj8ob6$2ji$1@bob.news.rcn.net...b >uF > Duncan Macdonald <duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message; news:memo.20030904212235.1004A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk... " > > If a reference in the Inquirer. (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11369) isK > > correct then HP is laying off so many of its tech support staff that byV theIL > > time OpenVMS Itanium is a full commercial grade product, there may be no demand? > > for it as the required support level will not be available.h > > H > > (This is not a dig at OpenVMS engineering who seem to be doing their usualrI > > superb job but a reflection on the fact that you need a good customerr tech7 > > support staff if you want people to buy the system)o >eG > That perspective neglects to take into account that many of us former<C > DEC employees are still in the business of supporting VMS systemsi< > and are gearing up to support Alpha to Itanium migrations. >r  % True, but we are a distributed bunch.fD Do we need an 'umbrella' organisation to grab the public attention ?E We could all contract our services to that entity and act as local orwF specialist support resources to satisfy the customer demand. If we allK contributed to the pot, a major publicity campaign could become affordable.n     -- John Travell" Independent VMS crashdump analyst. john- at - jomatech - dot - coma +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:35:38 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>6 Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update (presenter's notes?)9 Message-ID: <bja6vr$gt88u$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>n   Neil Rieck wrote:a7 > I attended the two day OpenVMS Strategy & Directions"d	 technicalb; > seminar in Ottawa (June 25/26). The live presentation wash "very"; > worthwhile but the second day was a little rushed. That's( when the >...  = I really wanted to go, but since my daughter decided to enter?: the world earlier than planned I am very glad I decided to stay home instead.  < What was the mood like there? (i.e. Were customers generally> happy with VMS or was there a lot of talk of moving away?) Did> you notice any companies/organizations that you were surprised* to see? How many people actually attended?   -- . Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.t Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.cae   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 02:07:10 -0700w. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)F Subject: Re: What's the practical effect of DECW$LOGINMANY being TRUE?< Message-ID: <224291b.0309050107.50a28084@posting.google.com>  $ DECW$LOGINMANY does two main things:  L 1.  It removes the code that causes the login window to always be forced on      top of other windows.0  K 2.  It removes a check that causes the creation of the login window to fail?=     if there are other windows already present on the screen.n  M (2) is also suppressed if the no restart flag is set, as happens with logins  	 from VXT.o   ++  K I think the purpose of it is primarily if you want to set-up login windows qK to multiple clients from a single server. Another use might be if you want hK to have some application displaying even when logged out and don't want to o use a custom logo for that.o   Martin Kirby DECwindows Engineering   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:04:59 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32508 Message-ID: <rm5hlvkdp7a9b9c33nv3ngb9qt49vpphua@4ax.com>  E On 3 Sep 2003 15:14:26 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:t  9 >In article <olvblvogj342fjkr59ibh291eqk9pcst4q@4ax.com>,<* >	jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: >>>aL >>>So what you are saying is the same thing that many of the nay-sayers hereK >>>have been saying since Alpha was killed.  VMS is not going to run on anytM >>>"Industry Standard" (tm) hardware.  It is only going to run (with support)eN >>>on a very small subset of selected and very expensive HP hardware. (becauseL >>>of qualification costs and lack of volume sales)  So, tell us once again 7 >>>exactly what the advantage of Itanium over Alpha is?e >>>a >> .J >> You don't think, just by virtue of the fact that the Itanium is used byK >> many more vendors, that the volume of the chip will be much greater thanA+ >> Alpha and thereby reduce costs per unit?0 >>   > E >I fear you missed the point.  I am sure that DELL who will sell lots D >(relatively) of Itanium systems will be able to get the prices downE >to something close to acceptable.  But people here are concerned for D >the most part with boxes that will run VMS.  If that is going to beD >a very small subset of available Itanium systems and available fromD >only one vendor, the cost will never come down and VMS is once moreC >relegated to special, rare, expensive hardware. How long can it berB >expected that IT shops will be willing to continue to pay a stiffH >penalty for the priviledge of running VMS?  Especially as less and less >of them even know what VMS is.   J Exactly how much more would an Itanium chip destined for VMS use cost thanK one that doesn't?  Or are you just saying that HP will not charge the lowery. price for systems with that chip as Dell will?  K It would seem that the cost per chip of IA64-based systems would be able to0K be somewhat lower just due to the fact that it's used in many more systems.1K Exactly how are you defining your trademarked industry standard?  Would you I say that a Proliant IA32 box today is "'Industry Standard' hardware"?  IffK not, then what is your definition for that term?  If yes, then how will thea' IA64 servers be different in your mind?e  E If you're just concerned for what 'premium' price will be charged fornI OpenVMS licenses on the same hardware, well it's just fud until we get tot" see the real world implementation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:08:39 GMT.& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32508 Message-ID: <n36hlvs8jg1mro9ntklv0h8st3ghd4qlts@4ax.com>  J On 3 Sep 2003 11:57:37 -0500, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:p  b >In article <olvblvogj342fjkr59ibh291eqk9pcst4q@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: >> tJ >> You don't think, just by virtue of the fact that the Itanium is used byK >> many more vendors, that the volume of the chip will be much greater thanY+ >> Alpha and thereby reduce costs per unit?e >iB >   That was DEC's plan for the Alpha, and they did get some otherB >   vendors to use some.  The question is whether Intel will sell , >   the IA64 better than DEC sold the Alpha.  K Fair enough.  We won't know this until real systems begin selling.  There'srK no way we can accurately guess the market size for these servers until fullg( support and distribution gets ramped up.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:12:37 GMTa& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32508 Message-ID: <kd6hlv4hfmkvvankuil7a21cas3so3ghod@4ax.com>  G On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:13:23 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:w   >I >d >>-----Original Message-----/ >>From: jlsue [mailto:jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net] - >>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 7:47 AMi >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr< >>Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 >> >> >>I >>You don't think, just by virtue of the fact that the Itanium is used bydJ >>many more vendors, that the volume of the chip will be much greater than* >>Alpha and thereby reduce costs per unit? >eJ >The only way to increase the volume is for Microsoft to fully support it,K >and why should they.  Apple certainly won't they have a far superior chip.i >w  J What?  You saying that Microsoft won't fully support IA64-based systems?  K It would seem that 64-bit Exchange and SQLserver would be a big benefit for  them.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 17:17:19 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32509 Message-ID: <bjageu$f6o5m$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>y  8 In article <rm5hlvkdp7a9b9c33nv3ngb9qt49vpphua@4ax.com>,) 	jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:aG > On 3 Sep 2003 15:14:26 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:1 > : >>In article <olvblvogj342fjkr59ibh291eqk9pcst4q@4ax.com>,+ >>	jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:m >>>>M >>>>So what you are saying is the same thing that many of the nay-sayers here:L >>>>have been saying since Alpha was killed.  VMS is not going to run on anyN >>>>"Industry Standard" (tm) hardware.  It is only going to run (with support)O >>>>on a very small subset of selected and very expensive HP hardware. (because>M >>>>of qualification costs and lack of volume sales)  So, tell us once again  8 >>>>exactly what the advantage of Itanium over Alpha is? >>>> >>> K >>> You don't think, just by virtue of the fact that the Itanium is used by>L >>> many more vendors, that the volume of the chip will be much greater than, >>> Alpha and thereby reduce costs per unit? >>>  >>F >>I fear you missed the point.  I am sure that DELL who will sell lotsE >>(relatively) of Itanium systems will be able to get the prices downwF >>to something close to acceptable.  But people here are concerned forE >>the most part with boxes that will run VMS.  If that is going to beeE >>a very small subset of available Itanium systems and available fromuE >>only one vendor, the cost will never come down and VMS is once morepD >>relegated to special, rare, expensive hardware. How long can it beC >>expected that IT shops will be willing to continue to pay a stiff-I >>penalty for the priviledge of running VMS?  Especially as less and lessu  >>of them even know what VMS is. > L > Exactly how much more would an Itanium chip destined for VMS use cost thanM > one that doesn't?  Or are you just saying that HP will not charge the lower 0 > price for systems with that chip as Dell will?  I Chips don't run OSes.  Systems do.  And, it has been very recently statedoK that VMS will only be supported on certified systems.  Those do not include H DELL.  Certified VMS systems will cost more.  I didn't say that, variousG people from HP said right here in the last few weeks.  The question wasrI asked here back at the time the port to IA64 was beginning if it could berH expected that VMS would run on any industry standard system.  The answerK was "engineering is doing nothing to make VMS rely on special HP hardware."oJ I think most people took this to mean that VMS would be capable of runningI on any "industry standard" (whatever that means) Itanium system you couldtI buy.  It was recently stated that VMS would be suported only on certified F systems and that certification was a time-consuming and costly action.H Thus, it must be expected that rather than competing VMS will once again become an expensive outsider.0   > M > It would seem that the cost per chip of IA64-based systems would be able tolM > be somewhat lower just due to the fact that it's used in many more systems..M > Exactly how are you defining your trademarked industry standard?  Would you K > say that a Proliant IA32 box today is "'Industry Standard' hardware"?  IfaM > not, then what is your definition for that term?  If yes, then how will the ) > IA64 servers be different in your mind?c > G > If you're just concerned for what 'premium' price will be charged forlK > OpenVMS licenses on the same hardware, well it's just fud until we get to>$ > see the real world implementation.  H No, I have no doubt that VMS licenses will continue to be expensive.  MyK concern was for the fact that on top of this VMS users will be saddled withmI continuing exorbitantly priced hardware as well.  Many bean-counters willuB see this as yet another attempt to gouge and may not be willing toB approve purchases for the more costly hardware thus making VMS theG bastard step-child yet again.  And, we're right back where we were withn
 the Alpha.   bill  l   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 5 Sep 2003 07:35:04 -0700e, From: michael_hart@dofasco.ca (Michael Hart) Subject: Xerces NetAccessor = Message-ID: <e62b60e0.0309050635.1fbfaa15@posting.google.com>.  B I'm using Xerces in a multi-platform project to load and parse XMLB documents from an HTTP URL. Xerces 2.3.0 supports this natively onF Windows and most Unixes. However, HP's supported version of Xerces forD OpenVMS (see http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/xml/) isE derived from Xerces 2.2.0, and does not support loading XML documents:% from anything other than local files.e  - It looks like I have very few (ugly) choices:fA 1. Implement the NetAccessor class myself (or use the Unix one toq= start with). As best as I can tell, this involves recompilinghB Xerces... there doesn't seem to be any build scripts included with
 HP's version.tC 2. Write my own code to download the XML file, parse it to find thee@ schema, download the schema, and then use Xerces to validate and continue parsing. Yuck.o   So...mC 1. Has anyone successfully compiled Xerces with a valid NetAccessor.( enabled? Any suggestions where to start?= 2. Does anyone know if/when HP plans to release Xerces 2.3.0?e 3. Any other suggestions?a   thanks mike   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 09:56:50 +0200< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>- Subject: Re: [Q] Learning to use Queues in C.b8 Message-ID: <bj9fka$g2veq$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>   Matt Muggeridge wrote:G > Your queueitem contains the record structure which is not quadword insG > size. Since you have this in an array, only the first element will benC > quad aligned.  The remaining array items will appear at long-wordn > offsets.    A But I still get %SYSTEM-F-ROPRAND if I surround the queueitem and A queueheader definitions with "#pragma nomemberalignment quadword"f2 (so that each array member shold be quad aligned).   cu,    Martin -- iF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deuF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:43:25 GMT ; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net> - Subject: Re: [Q] Learning to use Queues in C. < Message-ID: <hi16b.35997$Nc.8309792@news1.news.adelphia.net>  B "Hiroyuki Tanaka" <Hiroyuki_Tanaka4@excite.co.jp> wrote in message7 news:68cfa44d.0309041840.67290022@posting.google.com...b > Dear Readers,. >bJ > I am trying to learn how to use VMS self relative queues under VMS in C.H > I am planning to setup a list of free buffers and remove these buffersI > from the free queue as I need them and insert them into a in-use queue.l >aH > I am attempting to convert my program from FORTRAN to C, but I keep onH > getting a SYSTEM-F-ROPRAND which seems pretty terminal for my process. >n > Inserting item: 0  > Inserting item: 1 G > %SYSTEM-F-ROPRAND, reserved operand fault at PC=80458268, PS=0000001Be1 > %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsHL >  Image Name   Module Name     Routine Name    Line Number  rel PC      abs PCD >                                                         0 80458268 80458268D >  QDEMO        QDEMO           main                   5848 00000144 00020144D >  QDEMO        QDEMO           __main                    0 0000006C 0002006CD >                                                         0 82E04170 82E04170 >l& > Here is the code I am trying to use. >d > #include <libdef.h>i > #include <ssdef.h> > #include <stsdef.h>i > #include <stdio.h> > #include <stdlib.h>n > #include <lib$routines.h>l >i" > void main(int argc, char **argv) > {   >     unsigned long int retstat; >     int i; >g >     struct record  >     {- >        int data; >     }; >e >     struct queueitem >     {s# >         unsigned long int *flink; # >         unsigned long int *blink;e >         struct record record;3 >     }; >s >     struct queueheader >     {o# >         unsigned long int *flink;l# >         unsigned long int *blink;r >     }; >k: >     struct queueheader _align(QUADWORD) header  = {0,0}; >n6 >     struct queueitem   _align(QUADWORD) freelist[5]; >     struct queueitem remove; >  >     for ( i = 0; i < 5; i++ )n >     {   >         freelist[i].flink = 0;  >         freelist[i].blink = 0;& >         freelist[i].record.data = i;C >         printf( "Inserting item: %d\n", freelist[i].record.data);.> >         retstat = LIB$INSQTI(&freelist[i].flink,  &header ); >     }; > }  >  >t3 > Could it be explained what I am doing wrong in C.e( > I am using VMS 6.2 and C 6.5 on Alpha.A > Are there any demo programs that show the usage of VMS internal  > self-relative queues.( >= > Thanks >o > Tanaka  I Why are you using the interlocked instructions?   If you need to access a I queue from multiple CPUs at once (without other forms of synchronization)fH then these instructions are perfect.  If you are accessing the data from? within the same process/processor (or are using another form of K synchronization, such as a semaphore) then you can use the absolute queues. I The absolute queues can be modified from any place in the queue, not justi the header.r    In my C code I use the builtins:           #include <builtin.h>           _INSQUE(entry, pred);o         _REMQUE(entry, &ptr);,  J The builtins also give return values so that you can tell if the queue wasJ empty, is now empty, or if this is the only element now in the queue.  ForJ portability you can whip up macros for the equivalent builtins so that theH code reads nicely.  Remember that initializing an absolute queue is done+ differently, not just setting them to zero.p   -Johno   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.492 ************************