1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 12 Sep 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 505       Contents:+ Re: "HP breakup on the way" - Merrill Lynch + Re: "HP breakup on the way" - Merrill Lynch + Re: "HP breakup on the way" - Merrill Lynch 1 Re: Advanced Server - copying large file problem? < Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?@ Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?@ Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?@ Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?@ Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?@ Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?@ Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?@ Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?@ Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays?7 Re: Badly Need 2 header files <descrip.h> & <starlet.h>  Re: Block size in show dev?  Re: Block size in show dev?  Re: Block size in show dev? , Re: Deerfield-based Itanium 2 systems arrive, RE: Deerfield-based Itanium 2 systems arrive Re: DLT Compatibility  Re: DLT Compatibility   FA: DEC Collectable - The Cards., First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...0 Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...0 Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...0 Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...0 Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...0 Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...$ IDL on VMS. Was: Image tools for VMS6 Re: Image tools for VMS - follow up - advanced server?8 Re: Image tools for VMS - follow up - image file formats& Re: Mac OS X -> Pathworks/Mac problems& Re: Mac OS X -> Pathworks/Mac problems Mailboxes and SYS$OUTPUTP Re: OpenVMS clusters (Alpha) - standalone workstation joined to the   cluster?  M Re: OpenVMS clusters (Alpha) - standalone workstation joined to the  cluster? P Re: OpenVMS clusters (Alpha) - standalone workstation joined to the cluster? clu Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive  Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive  Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive  Re: PWS 500 question Re: PWS 500 question Re: PWS 500 question Question on running GnuPG 1.2.0  Re: VMS website updated.. Why does MAIL DIR go slow during mail receive?2 Re: Why does MAIL DIR go slow during mail receive?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 13:38:17 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 4 Subject: Re: "HP breakup on the way" - Merrill Lynch3 Message-ID: <eEtuHLz+XZSb@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <bjpt6s$m23h0$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <8xPGNFRnGJMD@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >>  E >>    They've lived with it and they can die with it, even RSX didn't ! >>    stay on the market forever.  > F > Don't let Mentec hear you say that.  It's up-to-date and still being > actively marketed and sold. 2 >             http://www.mentec-inc.com/RSXSW.html       Oops, I meant to say TOPS-20.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 13:22:54 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 4 Subject: Re: "HP breakup on the way" - Merrill Lynch3 Message-ID: <I4Gm$S+tBJ6K@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <GW08b.20197$ip5.1533944@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Ken Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com> writes: - > Re: "HP breakup on the way" - Merrill Lynch  > : > Yea, they know how to invest peoples money also...wrong. > M > Any comments on VeriSign booting Sun out of the Internic for Red Hat Linux?  > That has to hurt.  > 5 > Red Hat Providing VeriSign With Linux-Based Servers C > http://www.enterpriselinux.org/stories.php?story=03/09/10/1221561  >   
 	One view:  > 	A bitter harvest.  They are reaping what they sowed.  You can? 	imagine any Sun champion within Verisign lost any voice during  	the Zinc Whiskers fiasco:  e http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=zvpVnRu%2Bzgtl%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain   6 http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2000/1113/6613068a_3.html  G "Last November [1999] Verisign Global Registry Services, a domain name  K registry, was down for two hours after a crucial Sun box crashed. Verisign  M complained but got no explanation. Months later an executive at Verisign ran   across the Gartner bulletin."    M "I said to Sun, 'My God, you knew about this problem, and you didn't tell me? L That's unconscionable,' " he says.Verisign still uses Sun for some tasks but6 has moved important systems onto IBM Unix servers.       ---   ; 	That is one cynical view.  In reality it is just a dollars : 	and cents argument.  Certainly a bunch cheaper now matter8 	how you slice and dice it.  And that is in the article:  J In a significant cost-reduction maneuver, VeriSign is migrating over 2,000O servers, many of them boasting extremely high performance, from Unix to Red Hat  Linux running on Intel chips.   C 	Verisign booting Sun for Linux isn't unique.  I could bore you by   	dredging up similar stories.    				Rob     / P.S.  You have some cleanup in your HTML to do:   N VeriSign maintains the definitive database of over 27 million Web addresses inO .com and .net - the world's most recognizable top-level domains and responds to G over 9 billion DNS look-ups daily. This platform includes the| critical I infrastructure for| the 13 globally deployed global top level domain name L servers answering domain name system requests for all .com| and .net domainsK and the| A Root server, the hierarchical top of the| Internet's root server : system| and the most heavily| utilized domain name server.  ! 	vertical bars sneaking in there.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2003 19:17:07 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: "HP breakup on the way" - Merrill Lynch9 Message-ID: <bjqhni$l7pq2$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   3 In article <eEtuHLz+XZSb@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:j > In article <bjpt6s$m23h0$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:6 >> In article <8xPGNFRnGJMD@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >>> F >>>    They've lived with it and they can die with it, even RSX didn't" >>>    stay on the market forever. >>  G >> Don't let Mentec hear you say that.  It's up-to-date and still being  >> actively marketed and sold.3 >>             http://www.mentec-inc.com/RSXSW.html  > " >    Oops, I meant to say TOPS-20.   > Apology accepted.  :-)  Some of us still take our PDP-11s veryA seriously.  And we commiserate with the former TOPS-20 users. :-(    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:58:29 GMT 8 From: "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Advanced Server - copying large file problem?/ Message-ID: <p678b.418865$o%2.188682@sccrnsc02>   H Are you comparing an MS copy operation to an FTP file transfer?  I don'tI think that will give you a good comparison.  I would think (and from what . I've seen) FTP will be significantly faster...   Regards, Tom   < "Clay M. Denton" <denton@orison.dsserv.com> wrote in message2 news:hk5ulvsf1f9me0d8fdv4hn4j4pon4h2i6h@4ax.com... > Environment: > ) > AlphaServer GS60 6/525 6 cpu 4GB memory ) > OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1 (w lots of patches)  > Advanced Server 7.3A& > PC Running Windows 2000 Server - SP65 > 100BaseT full duplex switched network - same subnet  > TCP/IP as transport  > K > Am moving a directory structure from local PC drive to a share on the VMS 
 system.  Have E > 2 files which won't copy.  1 is more than 6GB, 1 is more than 10GB.  > 4 > On the PC - I get a somewhat useless popup error - > 5 > Cannot copy file xyzabc The parameter is incorrect.  > 4 > This occurs about 4GB of the way through the file. > K > Additional note - though unrelated - throughput on this is very slow.  It  takes about 90E > minutes to copy 6 GB of data - so I'm only getting about 11Mbit/sec  utilization ofK > the network.  FTP from the same PC to the same Alpha gets me over 88Mbit.  >  > Thoughts, anyone?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Clay   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 11:54:56 -0700$ From: svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth)E Subject: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays? = Message-ID: <5a85bce2.0309111054.6f6fdbac@posting.google.com>    Hi:   D I've got an ES40 running VMS 7.3-1 which is connected to an ESA12000 (running ACS 8.7S-2).   7 On July 2nd, we saw a few of the DGAnn: devices go into E mntverifytimeout.  I was forced to reboot the system in an attempt to D get things running again.  The OS came-up okay but when attempted toB start our IDX software (running on Cache), we found that the CacheC database files were badly corrupted.  After spending a few hours on B the phone with a support person from IDX and a support person fromF Intersytems, the decision was made to restore from tape.  That processF took pretty much all day (restoring from the last full backup and then re-playing the journal files).  E We lost an entire day's worth of production on July 2nd.  Our clinics = that use the IDX system for scheduling and other "front desk" ? patient-related activities were dead-in-the-water.  We also had B hundreds and hundreds of "back office" billing people who could do8 nothing that day because our IDX system was unavailable.  F I have an open IPMT case with "Storage Engineering".  I have sent them/ tons and tons of logs and console output files.   C We haven't received any encouraging news, patches or tips on how to - keep the ESA12000 from going "incommunicado".   D Last night, we got hit with the same problem that whacked us on JulyC 2nd.  Two DGAnn: devices went to "mntverifytimeout".  Had to reboot ; the ES40.  We got lucky and did not have to restore the IDX C environment from tape.  The odd thing that I noticed is that when I A tried a "restart this" on one of the HSG80s, the CLI hung on both E controllers.  I had to have an operator hit the buttons on the OCP on ( the front of the HSG80s to restart them.  ? AND THIS MORNING, we got hit again.  Same symptoms.  Two DGAnn: C devices went mntverifytimeout.  Had to reboot without shutting down E Cache.  Got lucky once more and the Cache data files were not corrupt F after reboot.  Tried a "restart other" on the HSG80s.  The CLI on bothF controllers hung.  Had to walk an operator through hitting the buttonsF on the front of the HSG80s to restart them.  Does anyone see a pattern here?   D Is anyone else experiencing problems like this with HSG80s connectedF to their VMS systems?  I heard that another big shop here in Milwaukee was having similar problems....   E This is just killing us.  The IDX system is one of our most important C systems.  I can't have the storage going "bye-bye" in the middle of 
 the night.  F The only hunch we have about this bug in the ESA12000 is that it seems< to be related to periods of high I/O activity.  On all threeE occassions, we were hit during the time that our backups run.  We are ( also using controller-based snapshots...  D Is anyone suffering this problem?  Does  anyone have advice on how I? escalate this problem higher-up in the HP food chain?  There is = clearly something wrong with the HSG80s under our VMS system.    Thanks,    -Sleepless Scott in Milwaukee. svieth@wi.rr.nospam.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:11:37 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>I Subject: Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays? 2 Message-ID: <bjqk22$vge$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  O We are using 4 VMS ES40's and 3 Tru64 ES47's on two HSG80 cabinets (multi-site  Q clustering and VMS shadowing). The only problem we had so far was when two Tru64  P systems were set up as a cluster. They tried connecting to a HSG80, but failed. K However in the middle of the night the HSG80 had enough and went on strike.   N The HSG80 software was a bit outdated, and we wanted to upgrade to the latest P version, V8.7-1. However we were advised to update to V8.6-13, and not to go to K V8.7-1. Don't know why, maybe someone at HP was a bit suspicious about the   V8.7-1 release....   Scott Vieth wrote: > Hi:  > F > I've got an ES40 running VMS 7.3-1 which is connected to an ESA12000 > (running ACS 8.7S-2).  > 9 > On July 2nd, we saw a few of the DGAnn: devices go into G > mntverifytimeout.  I was forced to reboot the system in an attempt to F > get things running again.  The OS came-up okay but when attempted toD > start our IDX software (running on Cache), we found that the CacheE > database files were badly corrupted.  After spending a few hours on D > the phone with a support person from IDX and a support person fromH > Intersytems, the decision was made to restore from tape.  That processH > took pretty much all day (restoring from the last full backup and then  > re-playing the journal files). > G > We lost an entire day's worth of production on July 2nd.  Our clinics ? > that use the IDX system for scheduling and other "front desk" A > patient-related activities were dead-in-the-water.  We also had D > hundreds and hundreds of "back office" billing people who could do: > nothing that day because our IDX system was unavailable. > H > I have an open IPMT case with "Storage Engineering".  I have sent them1 > tons and tons of logs and console output files.  > E > We haven't received any encouraging news, patches or tips on how to / > keep the ESA12000 from going "incommunicado".  > F > Last night, we got hit with the same problem that whacked us on JulyE > 2nd.  Two DGAnn: devices went to "mntverifytimeout".  Had to reboot = > the ES40.  We got lucky and did not have to restore the IDX E > environment from tape.  The odd thing that I noticed is that when I C > tried a "restart this" on one of the HSG80s, the CLI hung on both G > controllers.  I had to have an operator hit the buttons on the OCP on * > the front of the HSG80s to restart them. > A > AND THIS MORNING, we got hit again.  Same symptoms.  Two DGAnn: E > devices went mntverifytimeout.  Had to reboot without shutting down G > Cache.  Got lucky once more and the Cache data files were not corrupt H > after reboot.  Tried a "restart other" on the HSG80s.  The CLI on bothH > controllers hung.  Had to walk an operator through hitting the buttonsH > on the front of the HSG80s to restart them.  Does anyone see a pattern > here?  > F > Is anyone else experiencing problems like this with HSG80s connectedH > to their VMS systems?  I heard that another big shop here in Milwaukee! > was having similar problems....  > G > This is just killing us.  The IDX system is one of our most important E > systems.  I can't have the storage going "bye-bye" in the middle of  > the night. > H > The only hunch we have about this bug in the ESA12000 is that it seems> > to be related to periods of high I/O activity.  On all threeG > occassions, we were hit during the time that our backups run.  We are * > also using controller-based snapshots... > F > Is anyone suffering this problem?  Does  anyone have advice on how IA > escalate this problem higher-up in the HP food chain?  There is ? > clearly something wrong with the HSG80s under our VMS system.  > 	 > Thanks,  >   > -Sleepless Scott in Milwaukee. > svieth@wi.rr.nospam.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 16:11:58 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) I Subject: Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays? 3 Message-ID: <PEbWgoyWsM7q@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <5a85bce2.0309111054.6f6fdbac@posting.google.com>, svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) writes: > Hi:  > F > I've got an ES40 running VMS 7.3-1 which is connected to an ESA12000 > (running ACS 8.7S-2).  > 9 > On July 2nd, we saw a few of the DGAnn: devices go into G > mntverifytimeout.  I was forced to reboot the system in an attempt to F > get things running again.  The OS came-up okay but when attempted toD > start our IDX software (running on Cache), we found that the CacheE > database files were badly corrupted.  After spending a few hours on D > the phone with a support person from IDX and a support person fromH > Intersytems, the decision was made to restore from tape.  That processH > took pretty much all day (restoring from the last full backup and then  > re-playing the journal files). > G > We lost an entire day's worth of production on July 2nd.  Our clinics ? > that use the IDX system for scheduling and other "front desk" A > patient-related activities were dead-in-the-water.  We also had D > hundreds and hundreds of "back office" billing people who could do: > nothing that day because our IDX system was unavailable. > H > I have an open IPMT case with "Storage Engineering".  I have sent them1 > tons and tons of logs and console output files.  > E > We haven't received any encouraging news, patches or tips on how to / > keep the ESA12000 from going "incommunicado".  > F > Last night, we got hit with the same problem that whacked us on JulyE > 2nd.  Two DGAnn: devices went to "mntverifytimeout".  Had to reboot = > the ES40.  We got lucky and did not have to restore the IDX E > environment from tape.  The odd thing that I noticed is that when I C > tried a "restart this" on one of the HSG80s, the CLI hung on both G > controllers.  I had to have an operator hit the buttons on the OCP on * > the front of the HSG80s to restart them. > A > AND THIS MORNING, we got hit again.  Same symptoms.  Two DGAnn: E > devices went mntverifytimeout.  Had to reboot without shutting down G > Cache.  Got lucky once more and the Cache data files were not corrupt H > after reboot.  Tried a "restart other" on the HSG80s.  The CLI on bothH > controllers hung.  Had to walk an operator through hitting the buttonsH > on the front of the HSG80s to restart them.  Does anyone see a pattern > here?  >    	Yes I see a pattern.     A 	Why July 2nd?  Did you upgrade firmware July 1st?  What changed?    	Tips?  A 	Googling for a dcl snippet, So you can immediately catch when a  ? 	drive goes into MntVerify stick something like this in a loop:   b http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8NOV00.19075364%40feda34.fed.ornl.gov&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain	     $ mntvfy = %x4000    $ valid  = %x0800    $ loop:      $ sts = f$getdvi(vol,"sts") E   $ if (sts .and. mntvfy) .eq. mntvfy then ... ! Disk is in MntVerify   1 		Sound an alarm, and reboot the hung controller.   L   $ if (sts .and. valid) .ne. valid then ...   ! Disk is in MntVerifyTimeout  " 		Run in circles, scream and shout     $ wait 00:01:00 
   $ goto loop      ---   9 	Second, raise your MVTIMEOUT to give yourself more time. G 	Otherwise you are timing out - HANGING THE DRIVE(s) - and then forced  J         to reboot the node.  (Here is what I have, you may want to bounce ( 	this and any advice off HP by the way):   $ mcr sysgen show mvH Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  Dynamic H --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  ------- N MVTIMEOUT                   36000       3600         1      64000 Seconds    D    > 	3600 seconds is far too short in my opinion.  You may want to- 	adjust shad timeouts if shadowing is in use:    $ mcr sysgen show shadow_mbrH Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  Dynamic H --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  ------- N SHADOW_MBR_TMO              18000        120         1      65535 Seconds    D    E 	This way, things will hang on shadowsets also until you intervene.   9 	But why the corruption?  That's an interseting question.   F > Is anyone else experiencing problems like this with HSG80s connectedH > to their VMS systems?  I heard that another big shop here in Milwaukee! > was having similar problems....  > G > This is just killing us.  The IDX system is one of our most important E > systems.  I can't have the storage going "bye-bye" in the middle of  > the night. > H > The only hunch we have about this bug in the ESA12000 is that it seems> > to be related to periods of high I/O activity.  On all threeG > occassions, we were hit during the time that our backups run.  We are * > also using controller-based snapshots... >   ; 	Oh - skip the shadowing advice above.  But at your version C 	of VMS and *if* you had shadowing, and only ONE of the two shadow  E 	members were in MntVerify (maybe one on one controller pair another  D 	on another controller pair that isn't flaking out at the time) you @ 	could kick out the naughty member (maybe you want to bring down@ 	both controller pairs or are forced to - therefore need to kick1 	the members out on the flakey controllers(s)  ):   " 	$ dismount/force_removal  badboy:  C 	that is one advantage of having a long MVTIMEOUT , SHADOW_MBR_TMO,  	and using shadowing.   % > Is anyone suffering this problem?      	Not here.  Different kit.    O         Seems like the heavy IO from concurrent operations, controller copies,  E 	backups and night jobs is stretching the HSG80s to a breaking point.    				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 14:25:30 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) I Subject: Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays? = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0309111325.141d63e6@posting.google.com>   i svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) wrote in message news:<5a85bce2.0309111054.6f6fdbac@posting.google.com>... 9 > On July 2nd, we saw a few of the DGAnn: devices go into  > mntverifytimeout.   A Before drives enter Mount Verify Timeout state, they sit in Mount = Verify state for a length of time determined by the MVTIMEOUT B parameter.  Default value for this parameter is 3600 seconds, or 1C hour.  You could raise this parameter, which would delay the drives @ going into Timeout state.  But that doesn't solve the underlying problem, of course.   4 > I was forced to reboot the system in an attempt to > get things running again.   D Disks in this state can also be dismounted with DISMOUNT/ABORT.  Any7 outstanding I/Os will be returned with an error status.   H > I have an open IPMT case with "Storage Engineering".  I have sent them1 > tons and tons of logs and console output files.  > E > We haven't received any encouraging news, patches or tips on how to / > keep the ESA12000 from going "incommunicado".   D Problems, particularly intermittent ones, can take a lot of time andB effort to diagnose.  Not having heard anything doesn't necessarily< mean there isn't a lot of effort going on in the background.  C Call back and request an update on the status of the IPMT case, and 1 Engineering is obligated to provide you with one.   G > This is just killing us.  The IDX system is one of our most important E > systems.  I can't have the storage going "bye-bye" in the middle of  > the night.  C Do you have host-based Volume Shadowing set up to shadow across two F different controller pairs?  Seems like such a mission-critical system might warrant that.   H > The only hunch we have about this bug in the ESA12000 is that it seems> > to be related to periods of high I/O activity.  On all three? > occassions, we were hit during the time that our backups run.   D You might try lowering the quotas for the Backup process so it can'tC drive the I/O subsystem quite as heavily, as a temporary mitigating  measure.  " > Does anyone have advice on how I7 > escalate this problem higher-up in the HP food chain?   B Start by calling the CSC back, asking for the Manager On Duty, and- expressing your concerns about the situation.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 14:22:57 -0700. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)I Subject: Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays? = Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0309111322.4a54edcc@posting.google.com>   C We have never had a problem other than a RAID set LUN issue several A years ago (caused by the factory assigning duplicate HSG80 serial 	 numbers).    We have never lost data.    $ Our ESA12000 has been rock steady!!!   Are you using XFC or VIOC?    > We decided to stay with VIOC 'cuz we suspect it's more stable.   WWWebb  i svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) wrote in message news:<5a85bce2.0309111054.6f6fdbac@posting.google.com>...  > Hi:  > F > I've got an ES40 running VMS 7.3-1 which is connected to an ESA12000 > (running ACS 8.7S-2).  > 9 > On July 2nd, we saw a few of the DGAnn: devices go into G > mntverifytimeout.  I was forced to reboot the system in an attempt to F > get things running again.  The OS came-up okay but when attempted toD > start our IDX software (running on Cache), we found that the CacheE > database files were badly corrupted.  After spending a few hours on D > the phone with a support person from IDX and a support person fromH > Intersytems, the decision was made to restore from tape.  That processH > took pretty much all day (restoring from the last full backup and then  > re-playing the journal files). > G > We lost an entire day's worth of production on July 2nd.  Our clinics ? > that use the IDX system for scheduling and other "front desk" A > patient-related activities were dead-in-the-water.  We also had D > hundreds and hundreds of "back office" billing people who could do: > nothing that day because our IDX system was unavailable. > H > I have an open IPMT case with "Storage Engineering".  I have sent them1 > tons and tons of logs and console output files.  > E > We haven't received any encouraging news, patches or tips on how to / > keep the ESA12000 from going "incommunicado".  > F > Last night, we got hit with the same problem that whacked us on JulyE > 2nd.  Two DGAnn: devices went to "mntverifytimeout".  Had to reboot = > the ES40.  We got lucky and did not have to restore the IDX E > environment from tape.  The odd thing that I noticed is that when I C > tried a "restart this" on one of the HSG80s, the CLI hung on both G > controllers.  I had to have an operator hit the buttons on the OCP on * > the front of the HSG80s to restart them. > A > AND THIS MORNING, we got hit again.  Same symptoms.  Two DGAnn: E > devices went mntverifytimeout.  Had to reboot without shutting down G > Cache.  Got lucky once more and the Cache data files were not corrupt H > after reboot.  Tried a "restart other" on the HSG80s.  The CLI on bothH > controllers hung.  Had to walk an operator through hitting the buttonsH > on the front of the HSG80s to restart them.  Does anyone see a pattern > here?  > F > Is anyone else experiencing problems like this with HSG80s connectedH > to their VMS systems?  I heard that another big shop here in Milwaukee! > was having similar problems....  > G > This is just killing us.  The IDX system is one of our most important E > systems.  I can't have the storage going "bye-bye" in the middle of  > the night. > H > The only hunch we have about this bug in the ESA12000 is that it seems> > to be related to periods of high I/O activity.  On all threeG > occassions, we were hit during the time that our backups run.  We are * > also using controller-based snapshots... > F > Is anyone suffering this problem?  Does  anyone have advice on how IA > escalate this problem higher-up in the HP food chain?  There is ? > clearly something wrong with the HSG80s under our VMS system.  > 	 > Thanks,  >   > -Sleepless Scott in Milwaukee. > svieth@wi.rr.nospam.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 14:55:06 -0700+ From: spamdump@mccready.com (Gary McCready) I Subject: Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays? = Message-ID: <ffd79a6c.0309111355.7313ffe7@posting.google.com>   i svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) wrote in message news:<5a85bce2.0309111054.6f6fdbac@posting.google.com>...  > Hi:  > F > I've got an ES40 running VMS 7.3-1 which is connected to an ESA12000 > (running ACS 8.7S-2).  >  <snip>. >  The odd thing that I noticed is that when IC > tried a "restart this" on one of the HSG80s, the CLI hung on both G > controllers.  I had to have an operator hit the buttons on the OCP on * > the front of the HSG80s to restart them. > B Yeah - with some of the problems we have had, IMHO the only way toA return the HSG's to a stable state is to restart both at the same  time.    <Snip>   F > Is anyone suffering this problem?  Does  anyone have advice on how IA > escalate this problem higher-up in the HP food chain?  There is ? > clearly something wrong with the HSG80s under our VMS system.  > @ Not this problem, but we have had others. In regard to yours, itC should be obvious to HP by now it is serious, and if you are paying F for support, Scott, the only variable should be how fast they escalate it.   C  With the problems that we have had to deal with, you just learn to D lean on them to get the problem addressed to your satisfaction. FeelC free to email me at Gary _at_ McCready -dot- com, and perhaps I can ; give you some hints based upon what you have not tried yet.   
 Good luck,   	 > Thanks,  >   > -Sleepless Scott in Milwaukee. > svieth@wi.rr.nospam.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:48:00 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>I Subject: Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays? ( Message-ID: <3F6117C0.59BA3BEF@mist.com>   Keith Parris wrote:  >    Off topic here, Keith.  ; Do you have a website on VMS buffer overflows and Denial of 
 Service info? 9 I need to look into this further.  Sure wish I could have  attended some of your seminars.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:36:19 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> I Subject: Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays? 4 Message-ID: <Dia8b.145$Ak6.26@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  / Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com> wrote in message 7 news:5a85bce2.0309111054.6f6fdbac@posting.google.com...  > Hi:  > F > I've got an ES40 running VMS 7.3-1 which is connected to an ESA12000 > (running ACS 8.7S-2).  >   J I have 36 HSG's all with the F version of firmware code.  Some are at 7-x,I others still at 8.6-8.  I have not seen anything like this issue in the F K version.  Back in VMS7.2-1H1, there was a problem with SYS$CLUSTER.EXE that G would cause the drives to go immediately into MVTIMEOUT when a path was L lost.  That was killing us.  That was fixed back in 2001 I believe.  It tookE several months, and running a debug version of someVMS OS code before ' engineering could identify the problem.   9 > On July 2nd, we saw a few of the DGAnn: devices go into G > mntverifytimeout.  I was forced to reboot the system in an attempt to F > get things running again.  The OS came-up okay but when attempted toD > start our IDX software (running on Cache), we found that the CacheE > database files were badly corrupted.  After spending a few hours on D > the phone with a support person from IDX and a support person fromH > Intersytems, the decision was made to restore from tape.  That processH > took pretty much all day (restoring from the last full backup and then  > re-playing the journal files). >   G I guess I do not understand the IDX software and what you mean about it  "running on Cache".   J Next time force a crash.  This will give engineering something to look at.   {On your system console} CTRL-P	 >>> CRASH L {system will bugcheck and write a crash dump file.  This is what engineering will need to look at.}  G > We lost an entire day's worth of production on July 2nd.  Our clinics ? > that use the IDX system for scheduling and other "front desk" A > patient-related activities were dead-in-the-water.  We also had D > hundreds and hundreds of "back office" billing people who could do: > nothing that day because our IDX system was unavailable. > H > I have an open IPMT case with "Storage Engineering".  I have sent them1 > tons and tons of logs and console output files.   H It took us several months and several outages before the SYS$CLUSTER.EXEI problem was identified in VMS 7.2.  Drives where not really in MVTIMEOUT, # but the state was reported as such.   J Are you monitoring all of your HSG80 controllers?  We have Decserver 700'sL and Consoleworks monitoring and recording our HSG console port output.  ThisL may be key to giving engineering the data that they need to fix the problem.  E > We haven't received any encouraging news, patches or tips on how to / > keep the ESA12000 from going "incommunicado".  >oF > Last night, we got hit with the same problem that whacked us on JulyE > 2nd.  Two DGAnn: devices went to "mntverifytimeout".  Had to reboots= > the ES40.  We got lucky and did not have to restore the IDXbE > environment from tape.  The odd thing that I noticed is that when IaC > tried a "restart this" on one of the HSG80s, the CLI hung on bothyG > controllers.  I had to have an operator hit the buttons on the OCP on * > the front of the HSG80s to restart them. >bA > AND THIS MORNING, we got hit again.  Same symptoms.  Two DGAnn:sE > devices went mntverifytimeout.  Had to reboot without shutting downrG > Cache.  Got lucky once more and the Cache data files were not corrupt H > after reboot.  Tried a "restart other" on the HSG80s.  The CLI on bothH > controllers hung.  Had to walk an operator through hitting the buttonsH > on the front of the HSG80s to restart them.  Does anyone see a pattern > here?l >aF > Is anyone else experiencing problems like this with HSG80s connectedH > to their VMS systems?  I heard that another big shop here in Milwaukee! > was having similar problems....  >fG > This is just killing us.  The IDX system is one of our most important.E > systems.  I can't have the storage going "bye-bye" in the middle ofI > the night. >SH > The only hunch we have about this bug in the ESA12000 is that it seems> > to be related to periods of high I/O activity.  On all threeG > occassions, we were hit during the time that our backups run.  We areY* > also using controller-based snapshots... >lF > Is anyone suffering this problem?  Does  anyone have advice on how IA > escalate this problem higher-up in the HP food chain?  There iss? > clearly something wrong with the HSG80s under our VMS system.  > 	 > Thanks,  >0  > -Sleepless Scott in Milwaukee. > svieth@wi.rr.nospam.com6   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Sep 2003 00:00:17 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young).I Subject: Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based arrays??3 Message-ID: <zTeWHnkQew9S@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <Dia8b.145$Ak6.26@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> writes: >  > I > I guess I do not understand the IDX software and what you mean about it: > "running on Cache".  >    	Manufactured by:s   http://www.intersystems.com/  C 	It's the leading database in HealthCare (according to IntersystemsnB 	web page and other accounts) and a number of vendors use it as a ( 	backend.  IDX, Epic as another example.   http://www.idx.com/m http://www.epicsystems.com/e  ; 	IDX is great stuff.  Epic is great stuff.  Epic got a plumw
 	recently:    + http://www.wistechnology.com/kaiserepic.php   , Kaiser On Schedule With Epic's Epic Project    By Jeff Moad, IDGb  L Kaiser Permanente's closely watched, six-month-old electronic medical recordO project has already expanded significantly beyond its original scope, officials O said this week. Still the $1.8-billion, three-year project is on schedule, withuH the initial software configuration phase due to wrap up in three weeks.   O Kaiser surprised many when, in February, the country's largest HMO announced iteL would discontinue a multi-year effort with IBM to develop its own electronicN medical record system -- called the Clinical Information System -- and insteadL purchase packaged EMR software from Epic Systems, a relatively small private4 software developer (click here for more information)  . 	This is the referenced URL in the click here:  L http://www.computerworld.com/databasetopics/data/story/0,10801,78384,00.html  M "Carl Dvorak, Epic's chief operating officer, said the company's software caniO store 45,000 data elements that cover all aspects of patient care. Dvorak addedsK that Kaiser's system will manage all end-user interactions through Cache, amN multidimensional database developed by InterSystems Corp. in Cambridge, Mass.,0 for use in transaction-processing applications."  > 	So while Cerner is great stuff running on Oracle, a number of# 	the other major players use Cache.h   				Robn   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 13:52:08 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)S@ Subject: Re: Badly Need 2 header files <descrip.h> & <starlet.h>3 Message-ID: <Kr3L3qxZPFV9@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  j In article <c236534f.0309110540.287ea5fa@posting.google.com>, roshan_tech@yahoo.co.in (Roshan Pai) writes: > E > c:\sign128\openssl\ssl_task.c(120) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open 6 > include file: 'descrip.h': No such file or directoryG > c:\sign128\crypto\bio\bss_rtcp.c(72) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open 6 > include file: 'starlet.h': No such file or directory >   C    I don't know what sign128 does, but both descrip.h and starlet.hnH    or VMS specific.  Having them on Windows will not allow you to create    a working program.   G    descrip.h defines VMS descriptors.  You'll find these as such thingsTD    as $DESCRTIPTOR macro calls or struct dsc$descriptor structures. :    They'll mostly be used for calling VMS system routines.  G    starlet.h provides prototypes for VMS system routines, look for SYS$a    as the prefix of the name.|  D    You won't find the SYS$ routines on a Windows box, you'll have toM    rewrite the code using either ASCII C library or Microsoft WIN32 routines.   E    Or, if you have bucks to spend, you can look for Sector7 or BostoneC    Business Computing for products which will emulate VMS APIs on as    Windows box.a   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2003 20:05:40 GMT) From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold@man.ac.uk>c$ Subject: Re: Block size in show dev?9 Message-ID: <3f60d593$0$261$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>b  ) John Brandon <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote: ( > winfried.bergmann(AT)empuron.de wrote:G > > > If you assume that 1-GB is 1,024 mega-bytes then you are correct.e > > >n+ > > >      17,773,524 * 512 = 9,100,044,288e/ > > >      9,100,044,288 / 1,024,000,000 = 8.88w > > >           -or-( > > >      17,773,524 / 2,000,000 = 8.88 > >  > > Close, but:a > > P > > if 1 GB == 1024 MB and if 1 MB == 1024 Kb and if 1 Kb == 1024 Byte, you have > > to divide by > > & > > 1024 * 1024 * 1024 = 1,073,741,824  D And if you divide the above number by 512, you get 2097152, which is@ the number of blocks in a gigabyte, which is where your original approximate figure came from!   & Whew! I'm glad we got that sorted out!   Tony.g -- eF Tony Arnold, Deputy to the Head of COS Division, Manchester Computing,: University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL.F T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039E E-mail: tony.arnold@man.ac.uk, Home: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnoldn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:30:15 -0500d( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)$ Subject: Re: Block size in show dev?1 Message-ID: <03091116301528@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>p   Tony Arnold wrote:F > And if you divide the above number by 512, you get 2097152, which isB > the number of blocks in a gigabyte, which is where your original > approximate figure came from!n > ( > Whew! I'm glad we got that sorted out! >  > Tony.   D This is getting scary.... What was the original question anyway? ;-)     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administratori* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:36:43 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>$ Subject: Re: Block size in show dev?2 Message-ID: <bjqlh2$5mo$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Tom Adams wrote:- > SHOW DEV DKA0 shows 17,773,524 total blockse > : > are these 512 byte blocks?  What is the block size here?  $ They are as you will know by now :-)  J Most operating systems use 512 byte blocks, but some use 1024 byte blocks.  I Disk manufacturers always specify the capacity of a disk in true decimal  6 figures, so 50 Gigabyte is truly 50.000.000.000 bytes.  O Operating systems however always use magnitudes of 1024, so this disk shows up h+ with a capacity of 46.57 GB on your screen.l- (46.57 * 1024 * 1024 * 1024 = 50.000.000.000)B   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 03:28:27 GMTe  From: CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net>5 Subject: Re: Deerfield-based Itanium 2 systems arriveo( Message-ID: <3F613DAF.30202@prodigy.net>   Keith Parris wrote:   T > CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:<3F5E84B0.1030907@prodigy.net>... >  >>Looking at the specs:  >  > ...a > = >>I'm curious what the "KW" ratings on the audio inputs mean.g >  >  > Certainly now KiloWatts! > D > My best guess is that this refers to the A/D or D/A sample rate inH > Kilo-Words.  By the Nyquist sampling theorem, you need to sample at atE > least twice the highest frequency of interest.  10 kilo-samples persF > second would be good up to 5 Khz frequencies, or voice-quality audioF > (telephones have 4 Khz bandwidth, for example).  47 kilo-samples perD > second would be more than good enough for 20 Khz CD-quality audio.  A That might work if they hadn't also specified frequency responsesd! which conflict with the analysis.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:49:36 -0700c# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>f5 Subject: RE: Deerfield-based Itanium 2 systems arriven9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEFOHPAA.tom@kednos.com>u   >-----Original Message-----a( >From: CJT [mailto:cheljuba@prodigy.net]+ >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 8:28 PMf >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6 >Subject: Re: Deerfield-based Itanium 2 systems arrive >  >v >Keith Parris wrote: >n. >> CJT <cheljuba@prodigy.net> wrote in message' >news:<3F5E84B0.1030907@prodigy.net>...l >> >>>Looking at the specs: >> >> ... >>> >>>I'm curious what the "KW" ratings on the audio inputs mean. >> >> >> Certainly now KiloWatts!g >>E >> My best guess is that this refers to the A/D or D/A sample rate innI >> Kilo-Words.  By the Nyquist sampling theorem, you need to sample at atuF >> least twice the highest frequency of interest.  10 kilo-samples perG >> second would be good up to 5 Khz frequencies, or voice-quality audiotG >> (telephones have 4 Khz bandwidth, for example).  47 kilo-samples per E >> second would be more than good enough for 20 Khz CD-quality audio.. > L Unless it has changed, voice channels are 3.3 KHz.  As for sampling, NyquistF assumes and infinitely steep filter, in practice,  the roll-off is notH quite so steep :-)  The necessary sampling rate is related to the filterL roll-off and the acceptable level of aliasing.  In audio, 3.5 is pretty good for most cut-off filters.h  B >That might work if they hadn't also specified frequency responses" >which conflict with the analysis. >y >  >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.n; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).hA >Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003k >i ---.& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:28:29 -0500a( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re: DLT Compatibility1 Message-ID: <03091114282903@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>n  N > Can a TZ87 or TZ88 DLT drive read cartridges from a TF85 tape drive?  I needL > to move data from a VAX 6000 that has no network connections, no SCSI, andN > no other tape drive, onto an Alpha.  Ebay has some TZ87/88 drives cheap, and& > the Alpha has the SCSI ports for it. >    Jack Peacock-   Check this out.   @ http://www.fujifilmmediasource.com/specs/new/dlt/DLTmediaold.pdf     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*nl VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:23:15 +0200S From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: DLT Compatibility2 Message-ID: <bjqlpr$frv$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Jack Peacock wrote:sN > Can a TZ87 or TZ88 DLT drive read cartridges from a TF85 tape drive?  I needL > to move data from a VAX 6000 that has no network connections, no SCSI, andN > no other tape drive, onto an Alpha.  Ebay has some TZ87/88 drives cheap, and& > the Alpha has the SCSI ports for it. >    Jack Peacockt >  > O Yes, it can ! Just make sure you have a cleaning tape for your new drive, that  + may help a lot. You can also use a TZ89....i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:51:10 -040000 From: "Homer Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com>) Subject: FA: DEC Collectable - The Cards. 4 Message-ID: <AL88b.257$vi3.7@bignews4.bellsouth.net>  L I found these while going through my basement in preparation for moving, and8 thought it might be of great interest to DEC collectors.  J http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=208&item=3626709619  # A little background on these cards:p  J The Compaq "merger" was the biggest shock in my Digital life.  I was on myK way to the local DEC office, when one of my customers called me on the cellrF phone and said "How does it feel to work for Compaq?  "Of course he isL kidding," I thought.  "How could the small fish swallow the big one?"  ThereF had been no hint of a merger.  Sure we were struggling a bit in recentI years, as KO bowed out and Bob Palmer took ther reigns, but I had no ideaaF that the whole company was on the block.  After a minute of talking, IH realized he wasn't kidding.  When I arrived at the office, the rumor was! confirmed.  We were all in shock.a  H I imagine that scenario was pretty common with about 89,998 other peopleK around the world.  Maybe some of you were in that count.  The Digital prideEJ was still alive, although being muffled by the Compaq way of doing things.G Digital letterhead and envelopes were the first to get tossed.  Nothing"E Digital could remain.  Somehow, though, the Digital Press was able tooI produce these playing cards before being shut down.  Someone remaining innK upper management had the inspiration to distribute these to the "pre-mergerIH Digital" employees.  I think it must have been a labor of love that wentL into producing these momentos for DEC employees to commemorate the greatness8 of their 40-year history.  This was the last hurrah. . .   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:52:24 GMTh" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...a0 Message-ID: <00A25BF4.66C66906@SendSpamHere.ORG>   DELTA!  7 %SYSTEM-F-NOCMEXEC, operation requires CMEXEC privilegeo   :(   --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:32:35 GMTk" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG9 Subject: Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...f0 Message-ID: <00A25C0A.C6B4D74B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <17h0WgSSn6a0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:nV >In article <00A25BF4.66C66906@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:	 >> DELTA!c >> o: >> %SYSTEM-F-NOCMEXEC, operation requires CMEXEC privilege > ( >What makes you feel that is not a bug ?  A I don't know if it's a bug or feature.  Just reporting the facts.n  - Sure makes it difficult to debug code though.H  C Now if they'd just put the manuals in IPF$DOCS in a readable formateD like PostScript, I'd be on my way.  Of specific interest this momentB is the Calling Standard docs.  If VMS manuals are still done using. DOCUMENT, producing PS should be a no brainer.     --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            r5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" o   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 15:13:12 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice... 3 Message-ID: <17h0WgSSn6a0@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  U In article <00A25BF4.66C66906@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:r > DELTA! > 9 > %SYSTEM-F-NOCMEXEC, operation requires CMEXEC privilegea  ' What makes you feel that is not a bug ?u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:15:15 -0500s/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>s9 Subject: Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...o2 Message-ID: <3F611013.252BEA6@applied-synergy.com>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  >oE > Now if they'd just put the manuals in IPF$DOCS in a readable format F > like PostScript, I'd be on my way.  Of specific interest this momentD > is the Calling Standard docs.  If VMS manuals are still done using0 > DOCUMENT, producing PS should be a no brainer.  T http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/download/callingstandard.pdf  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com n   Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 20:33:19 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)g9 Subject: Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...h3 Message-ID: <v7NhNVDasWOM@eisner.encompasserve.org>G  d In article <3F611013.252BEA6@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:# > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:t >>F >> Now if they'd just put the manuals in IPF$DOCS in a readable formatG >> like PostScript, I'd be on my way.  Of specific interest this momentvE >> is the Calling Standard docs.  If VMS manuals are still done using 1 >> DOCUMENT, producing PS should be a no brainer.t > V > http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/download/callingstandard.pdf  A That's nice.  Do you know of a web page where one can find more ?l2 My interests are ELF and DWARF extensions for VMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 20:58:27 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: First VMS IPF difference... not very nice...s3 Message-ID: <1LqO03WeX4GU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <v7NhNVDasWOM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   C > That's nice.  Do you know of a web page where one can find more ?i   I found it:i  N http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/openvms/resources.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:12:50 -0400a- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>i- Subject: IDL on VMS. Was: Image tools for VMSt0 Message-ID: <3F60E552.5F670EEC@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Keith Cayemberg wrote:= > Let it not be said that there are no graphics imaging tools  > for OpenVMS...   [snip]   > RSIu > http://www.rsinc.com/s  K This doubtlessly refers to the excellent IDL product, numerous licenses forIO which I have purchased over the years starting in 1985 when it ran quite nicelyRL on a VAX 11/750.  The only trouble is that Kodak acquired RSI and (if memoryO serves) in less than a month dropped support for IDL on Alpha/VMS.  Support fornM IDL on VAX/VMS was dropped years before that.  Support continues for "Compaq"i Tru64 to this day.  L The following note was penned late last night by Jim Kelley, the RSI productI manager for IDL and OK'd by him for posting here.  Please sit down beforeD reading.    - JB 7                 _______________________________________   K RSI dropped support for VMS several years after DEC had dropped support foreL that operating system.  The decision by RSI was driven primarily by a numberE of various factors that essentially converged at about the same time. I First, when DEC announced they were dropping support for VMS it triggered E customers initiated their own plans to migrate to different operatingyK systems.  Also as a result of DEC dropping VMS support,  a number of  third L party vendors that has libraries or code used by IDL began phasing out theirL support as well.  RSI realized that our ability to continue releasing IDL onF VMS would end as soon as these third party dependencies in IDL were noJ longer available for VMS.  We announced our intention to drop VMS about 12I months prior to the last release, in hopes of giving as much lead-time aso possible to our customers.  J Having dropped the VMS platform many releases ago, it would a huge task toG try to resurrect IDL on VMS today.  But, in addition to the engineeringrJ challenge that would certainly not be cost effective,  we really could notK replicate IDL 6.0 today on VMS because of the many 3rd party components andnI libraries that also no longer offer support for the VMS operating system.e  J RSI does not drop support for hardware all that often, we typically retainG support for certain systems long past the point that it is economically K advantageous for the company.  But at some point we are faced with choosing G between moving the software forward to the benefit of many users at thee) expense of having to drop older systems.    K The  fact of the matter is that DEC built really great hardware,  and whilenL many of their systems in the field are really old by today's standards, some5 of these systems will like be running years from now.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:07:41 GMTgL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")? Subject: Re: Image tools for VMS - follow up - advanced server? 6 Message-ID: <00A25C07.4ADCE413@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  d In article <bjq8au$lvj3e$2@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes:< >"Jeff Morgan" <vmswiz@geonospamcities.com> wrote in message( >news:bjq5er$a7e7$1@news3.infoave.net... >> Jack: >>I >>    It is very easy to set up a file share on Pathworks Advanced server  >thateM >> can be served to the web via the OSU web server. In a theoretical customermC >> service invoice retrieval application, here are the basic steps:i >>M >>    - map a drive letter to a Pathworks file share, for example Z: could bedK >> mapped to a file share called "\\pwserver\documents" If possible, use anbH >> ODS-5 formatted disk for the share. That way your filenames can be as >largeI >> as necessary to hold all the retrieval data. It is a poor man's way toML >> create an indexed database using the VMS file system, but it works. UsersI >> don't need access to this file share, only the scanning station. Users  >willd( >> retrieve them through the web server. >>@ >>    - scan your documents by any PC scanning method you choose >>H >>    - save them as jpeg files directly to the VMS file share from yourK >> scanning station. TIF and BMP are enormous. Be sure to use a format thatvH >> compresses the image data and is handled directly by any web browser. >gM >You might be better using PNG, which is supported by all current (graphical)IE >browsers and most older versions released in the past 5 years or so. M >The problem with JPG is that it is a lossy format. PNG isn't, and it doesn'tm# >have the copyright baggage of GIF.y  N I don't know about copyright baggage, but we no longer have to worry about the4 patent baggage that spurred the development of PNG.    -- Alanl -- uO ===============================================================================o0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056rM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025aO ===============================================================================s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:50:10 -0400 0 From: "Jeff Morgan" <vmswiz@geonospamcities.com>A Subject: Re: Image tools for VMS - follow up - image file formatst- Message-ID: <bjrc9p$avo0$1@news3.infoave.net>a  F Last time I looked, IMAGEMAGIK and XV didn't support PNG. Of course, IG haven't felt a need to upgrade these tools for years since they've beenl working just fine.  F I use IMAGEMAGIK to auto-create thumbnails in batch and XV to do colorL editing and touchups for all my family photo albums. XV has an awesome colorL editor. It will take the yellow out of scanned antique photos and can turn aI dark picture into full daylight. You can increase the saturation on fadedoK photos and actually bring the colors back out. You can even use it to erase'G scratches but it is a crude pixel editor. Considering its age, it is ant astounding tool.  L Scan and save from the pc to a pathworks file share, then index and organizeL on vms. Serve them up via OSU. Every now and then I copy the whole PathworksK file share to my PC and burn a dvd full of high resolution family pictures. I Most of my family have bought $49 Apex DVD players that play JPG files on H the TV so we share photos this way. I'm up to over 35,000 photos so far.  L And then, of course I've ripped all my music CDs to MP3s (YES, legally!) andK every pc in the house can play them off a pathworks fileshare using Windowss
 Media Player.r  I I'm sure Ruth Goldberg and gang never expected VMS to do stuff like this.t   : - Dt  I Sure you can do the same thing with a P-ieceof-C-rap, but the last time IbC booted the home Alphaserver it had been up since we moved into thistJ house...about 195 days. I only did it because I had to replace the UPS and the 4mm tape drive.g  J Over the past two months, I think my Windows XP systems have had to reboot> at least once a week just to install security patches. Sheesh!  0                                             Jeff   ----- Original Message -----  ( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms + Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:36 PMp? Subject: Re: Image tools for VMS - follow up - advanced server?e  B > You might be better using PNG, which is supported by all current (graphical)nF > browsers and most older versions released in the past 5 years or so.F > The problem with JPG is that it is a lossy format. PNG isn't, and it doesn'to$ > have the copyright baggage of GIF. >D >  > -- > John Travell$ > Independent VMS crashdump analyst.! > john- at - jomatech - dot - com" > +44-(0)23-92552229 > http://www.jomatech.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 13:35:54 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)R/ Subject: Re: Mac OS X -> Pathworks/Mac problemsn3 Message-ID: <YTxuuqbeEGa6@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  b In article <110920031000118776%paul.anderson@hp.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:A > In article <0tAV0socjL0P@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Koehler 2 > <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: > B >> You can open a "server" via FTP or NFS using the Go->Connect toC >> Server menu entry in Finder.  VMS FTP servers I've tried haven'trH >> worked to well, I'm assuming mine would work better if I set MultinetH >> to UNIX-emulation mode as I expect its the machine trying to read theA >> LIST output again instead of being satisfied with NLST output.  > C > I got my OpenVMS directory "mounted" via FTP by specifying ftp://iJ > followed by the name of the system in the Connect to Server dialog box. G > That's it, though.  No files were displayed and there was no activity.A > on the OpenVMS system indicating it was working on displaying ab > directory listing. > ( > So this is Apple's fault in this case?  I    If you're server has a log like Multinet's FTP_SERVER.LOG, you can seesC    Mac OS X is trying several different things to get a LIST it canaG    read.  It is Apples fault in that they are abusing the LIST command, C    and the RFC's fault in not providing a command that can be used.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2003 23:30:15 GMT From: healyzh@NOaracnetSPAM.com / Subject: Re: Mac OS X -> Pathworks/Mac problemse+ Message-ID: <bjr0i70ofp@enews1.newsguy.com>-  + Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> wrote:eC > I got my OpenVMS directory "mounted" via FTP by specifying ftp://cJ > followed by the name of the system in the Connect to Server dialog box. G > That's it, though.  No files were displayed and there was no activity7A > on the OpenVMS system indicating it was working on displaying a  > directory listing.  H I actually happened to be playing with just this feat this morning afterL reading a Macworld article.  It worked OK to a Unix system, however, I endedK up with the same results with OpenVMS.  I'm using OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 and TCPIPa 5.3 with Mac OS X 10.2.6.    		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:33:42 -0600r6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam>! Subject: Mailboxes and SYS$OUTPUTt0 Message-ID: <ae38b.41$K_3.22054@news.uswest.net>  F Does anyone have sample code that creates a temporary mailbox and thenA redirects the SYS$OUTPUT of a spawned subprogram to that mailbox?y   Thanks,s
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:54:30 +0300t* From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters (Alpha) - standalone workstation joined to the   cluster?   * Message-ID: <3F613566.8030405@tzora.co.il>   Jeffrey Green wrote:A > The message I saw when I booted up said that it could not load oI > Net-app-sup-200 (during boot but I don't remember the exact wording on t  E Check possible:  Insufficient units, Termination date (should not be -I there unless its some kind of demo license) Release date too early (does .: NAS license have an applicable release date?) or whatever.  ; To get the number of units needed do a $SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE   D To get the sysuaf seen by the satellites check that you've got MSCP . turned on on on a node the disks are local to.  H > the message) and when I went into single user mode it said that I did  > not have a cluster license.  > I > Unfortunately the room these machines are in (basically a storage room  J > without a door) is nowhwere near a PC with internet access.  I will try G > to grab the errors out of operator.log and post them.  I was unaware dJ > that the satellites needed a cluster license, and I did try a mod_units J > on the net-app-sup-200 on the cluster master from 1050 to 4200 just for  > grins and no change. >  > Jeffrey Green wrote: >  ... OP snipped ... >> >        -- 3  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htm@ Other useful links at http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/E ---------------------------------------------------------------------hE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* E Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"eE ---------------------------------------------------------------------r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:56:13 GMTa2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)V Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters (Alpha) - standalone workstation joined to the  cluster?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1109032004390001@user-uinj469.dialup.mindspring.com>  4 In article <3F605FCC.650E3FB5@hp.com>, Mike Rechtman  <michael.rechtman@hp.com> wrote:     >e2 >Check SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL_LMFGROUPS.COM;1 >IIRC NAS-200 should include a VAXCLUSTER licensef >s    J Alpha systems need VMSCLUSTER, not VAXCLUSTER.  But NAS-200 does appear to include the VMSCLUSTER license.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:55:43 GMTO3 From: Jeffrey Green <pleasereply@thisnewsgroup.com>iY Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters (Alpha) - standalone workstation joined to the cluster? clu 0 Message-ID: <3F6127CB.8010707@thisnewsgroup.com>  ? The message I saw when I booted up said that it could not load aG Net-app-sup-200 (during boot but I don't remember the exact wording on eF the message) and when I went into single user mode it said that I did  not have a cluster license.t  G Unfortunately the room these machines are in (basically a storage room eH without a door) is nowhwere near a PC with internet access.  I will try E to grab the errors out of operator.log and post them.  I was unaware eH that the satellites needed a cluster license, and I did try a mod_units H on the net-app-sup-200 on the cluster master from 1050 to 4200 just for  grins and no change.   Jeffrey Green wrote: > Hello there, > D > I'm clearing the cobwebs from my VMS cluster knowledge and have a K > question I hope someone can help with.   Ages ago (Vax 4000 server, 3100 iK >  workstations clustered) we had a requirement for couple of workstations  K > that had to be standalone but tied to the cluster.  I.e. They don't boot t@ > from the cluster and there is no boot root for them, yet they K > participate in the cluster and use the same authorize files.   Back when  J > I was the admin for that system we had a DEC contractor come in and set  > it up for us.h > D > Needless to say that was almost 10 years ago and I can't find any I > documentation on how they did it, which brings me to my point.  I have  G > group at my work that wants to stand up a very small (4 alphastation  I > workstations will grow to 10) VMS OpenVMS Alpha cluster, but they want  A > all the workstations to act the same as I previosly discussed. hC > Standalone with the OS and page/swap local but still tied to the  J > cluster.  I've been searching the Web and every VMS FAQ that I can find K > and I haven't seen anything that looks like the answer.  I've pleaded to eH > set it up booting off the server, something I still know fairly well, ! > but the answer was a firm "no".  > J > I know it can be done because that DEC contractor did it, although I do ! > realize that was VMS/Vax (5.2).  > F > Anyone have a reference or a link to a favorite page with an answer? > I > Thanks in advance, I'm really struggling with this one, and I'm off to g' > do some more search engine yahtzee =). >  > Jeffrey Greenh >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 13:47:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive3 Message-ID: <NNpcycn4gl30@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  U In article <00A25BF2.C7374A86@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:a > L > 'Twould have been nice if the compilers had been ready for the test drive. >       Yeah, but why wait?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:39:52 +0200e+ From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>-( Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive9 Message-ID: <bjqq39$mfnmg$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>R  : "Ryan Moore" <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org> schreef in bericht0 news:Pine.LNX.4.56.0309110931040.18502@jaipur...( > On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Hans Vlems wrote:8 > > In my case it took 10 minutes to enable the account. > > Gripe: no compilers....t >dK > Yeah, it took a couple minutes for me to get going, but it worked for me.  > L > I'm not sure what you mean by no compilers.  The e-mail clearly states you6 > log onto 192.233.54.184 and compile your code there. >nJ > The Test Drive cluster contains all of the other VMS test drive machinesL > as well... the Galaxy's and the E7.3-2 box.  You get all kinds of machines > to play with.f >  > The IA64 tools available are:p >wD >         Bliss-32        T1.00-038                      10-JUN-2003D >         Bliss-64        T1.00-038                      10-JUN-2003D >         XCC             X6.6-245-50D6A                 10-JUN-2003D >         IMacro          T1.0-64-50D6A                  16-JUN-2003D >         Message         T01-06 (X617-IXT-0000)         17-JUN-2003D >         CDU             T01-16 (X617-IXT-0000)         17-JUN-2003D >         ANALYZEOBJ      T01-26 (X617-IXT-0000)         17-JUN-2003D >         IAS             v7.0U Version 7.00.3168        13-JUN-2003D >         IDIS            v5.0U Version 1.00.2275        27-SEP-2002D >         LINKer          T01-44 (X617-IXT-0000)         20-JUN-2003D >         CrfShr          CRF A1.102-2 (X617-IXT-0000)   17-JUN-2003D >         Librarian       T01-12 (X617-IXT-0000)         17-JUN-2003D >         LbrShr          T01-12 (X617-IXT-0000)         17-JUN-2003D >         CheckSum        T01-01 (X617-IXT-0000)         17-JUN-2003D >         XF90 (Fortran)  T1.0-3397                      16-JUN-2003 >t@ >         LIB and STARLET are supplied from the X9UF result disk1 >         which was built on Friday, 20-JUN-2003.a >oJ Yup, that's what I discovered today. No Pascal however. I have no Bliss to test and very little C.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 15:43:54 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r( Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive3 Message-ID: <+5ab22vLR8io@eisner.encompasserve.org>8  \ In article <XV%7b.4456$7Z.4363@news.cpqcorp.net>, Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@hp.com> writes: > register at testdrive.hp.com >       Way cool.  G    Now I've logged onto OpenVMS I64 and seen that mostly it's still VMS.G    is VMS.  To bad I'll be tied up tonight and can't start messing with:    some more realistic code.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2003 22:35:50 GMT From: healyzh@NOaracnetSPAM.comy Subject: Re: PWS 500 questiont, Message-ID: <bjqtc6012cm@enews2.newsguy.com>  % issinoho <issinoho@slayme.com> wrote:r
 > Success!G > I pulled the SCSI and graphics card, then the MLB from the case. TooknH > out the CMOS battery, checked voltage, it was OK. Reassembled and BANG > up came the BIOS.m  	 Terrific!r  G > As for a permanent hard drive replacement, are there any restrictionsSB > or will any ebay SCSI drive do (I believe the limit may be 4Gb?)  J I've got a 9Gb SCA drive in mine (I'm using an 80-68pin adapter), and haveL been toying with the idea of replacing it with a 36GB I was recently given. I ISTR, hearing of people with 72Gb drives in their PWS's, as far as I know * there is no SCSI limit with these systesm.   			Zaner   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Sep 2003 22:38:07 GMT From: healyzh@NOaracnetSPAM.comB Subject: Re: PWS 500 questionw, Message-ID: <bjqtgf112cm@enews2.newsguy.com>  - Keith A. Lewis <lewis@mazda.mitre.org> wrote:1K > For bulk storage, ATA disks work too, but again they are unsupported, andRK > also slow -- I get throughput somewhere around 2 MB/s.  I would never usep! > one as a system or paging disk.a  L Not all DEC PWS systems have an EIDE controller supported by VMS.  I believeJ a couple people have gotten EIDE to SCSI adapters to work, I've not gotten) around to purchasing one so I can try it.    			Zane2   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Sep 2003 18:09:28 -0700$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) Subject: Re: PWS 500 question2< Message-ID: <d0141774.0309111709.3832d8f@posting.google.com>  k brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote in message news:<Cm_7b.316621$Oz4.106670@rwcrnsc54>...yf > In article <d0141774.0309110302.21504d4a@posting.google.com>, issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) writes: > !snip! > !Success!hH > !I pulled the SCSI and graphics card, then the MLB from the case. TookI > !out the CMOS battery, checked voltage, it was OK. Reassembled and BANGr > !up came the BIOS. > !1A > !Neither the hard drive nor the tape drive on the SCSI bus were7I > !detected so I began to suspect the Qlogic card, however I pulled the 2AH > !devices and attached a spare RZ24. It detected it immediately. Great. > !0> > !Tonight I'm swinging it over to the SRM and installing VMS. > ! F > !Would I be right in saying that this memory would work correctly in > !the PWS?:M > !http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/PartSpecs.asp?imodule=CT32M72S4R8E&cat=RAM  > N > I use crucial in my PWS433au, and have never had a problem (over three yearsO > now); however, I think you really want this part, instead: (warning - wrapped  > URL!)c > B > http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=1 > Digital%2BPersonal+Workstation&mfr=Digital&cat=a0 > RAM&model=Personal+Workstation+500au&submit=Go >   # Appreciate your input. Many thanks.4   > !snip! > L > __________________________________________________________________________C > Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own"DM > bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' h2 >                                          with @"   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2003 04:07:08 GMT From: healyzh@NOaracnetSPAM.comu( Subject: Question on running GnuPG 1.2.0, Message-ID: <bjrgpc02agj@enews4.newsguy.com>  J I got the GnuPG 1.2.0 kit from HP and have finally gotten it running afterM rebuilding it from the source.  That is it will run from the SYSTEM account. lC What privileges are needed for a user account to be able to run it?-   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:18:57 -0400>- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>s! Subject: Re: VMS website updated.00 Message-ID: <3F60F4D1.53B8969F@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   John Travell wrote:oQ > I am well aware how this group are not representative of the vast ma[jo]rity of K > internet users, but I had not fully appreciated just how much a few vocalg7 > members seem to have theirs heads buried in the sand.   O OK, that is such an outrageous statement you have brought me out of lurk mode.  J For the record, I might run some up-to-date browser on my VMS systems if IN really felt like it.  But most of the time I browse on Windows WITH JAVASCRIPTO TURNED OFF.  I rarely use NS or IE because it is so difficult to turn scripting P back on again when some braying jackass forces me into it just to navigate theirP obnoxious website.  So usually I use Opera, where the Quick Preferences pulldown2 menu allows me easily to turn scripting on or off.  P Here are the facts which you have not acknowledged.  In addition to the securityN risk and risk to privacy, some of us find the typical uses of javascript to beL so annoying, we turn it off for that reason alone.  What do you use it for? M Maybe a mouse-over is not so bad, though I have seen people try to mouse over P the text made visible by this event, only to find the text disappear.  Not good.  N Also, pop-up animated-GIF banner ads, or worse still pop-under banner ads, areN widely loathed by all.  You tell even clueless newbies that they can eliminateI these obnoxious things by turning off javascript, and off it goes withouts7 further ado and will probably never get turned back on.e  P And then there was the form popup window that I couldn't dismiss without fillingI in a valid email address...  The morons who programmed that behavior werehM permanently blacklisted, nor did they get any email address from me because ItO used the task manager to kill my brain-dead browser (which was IE as I recall).,  F Or how about taking away my status/URL text in favor of some scrollingO nonsense?  Ha!  Does anybody really care to see something scrolling there where K their status line should be?  I don't think so.  Or the drop-down menu thatrM launches something (you know not what) because scripting selects whatever yousN were on without the use of a submit button.  Then you try the back button onlyN to find that you can't go back due to some damnable meta refresh tag with zero0 wait.  These things make steam come out my ears.  J But my "favorite" scripting blunder is the website that requires scriptingP enabled to navigate beyond the front page.  But when you enable it, your browserF crashes!  Don't you love it when that happens?  (It has happened to meM repeatedly with various versions of NS4.)  Can you recover the customers lostgO when their browser crashed because of your crufty js?  Can you *guarantee* that I your command of scripting is so immaculate that it won't crash somebody'srP browser?  Of course not; you already admitted that you don't use older browsers,P so how could you know?  Just because YOU want to go with the bleeding edge, waitN impatiently for 6.0.1.01.005C and download it instantly at 3AM when it becomesJ available, along with the patch du jour for gross security flaws triggeredM sometimes simply by reading your email...  Just because you are that way doesiO NOT mean that anybody else feels the same intensity about the technology.  TheysN don't.  To many of us, it is just a tool.  And millions stick with the browserP that they first got with their Internet service, never bothering to upgrade even once.e  I Bottom line: You should not script nor mark up your web documents for anyRH particular user agent, configured in any specific way, because that willJ alienate some fraction of your customers who will go elsewhere rather thanL struggle to give you their business.  What fraction of your prospects do youN want to alienate?  5%?  10%?  How many will find that your script doesn't workL for them, or does something they didn't expect or don't want?  Do you reallyD have any idea how many customers you are alienating?  No you do not.    - JBr   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:48:17 +0000 (UTC)-* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)7 Subject: Why does MAIL DIR go slow during mail receive?g0 Message-ID: <bjqn2h$f68$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  I I have a question about an observed slowness in VMS MAIL.  I think I know J why, but want confirmation of my theory, or how to investigate it further,G as well as suggestions for a fix.  First, my configuration: I'm runningI= OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2, TCPIP V5.1 ECO 4 on my Alpha workstation.n  F Observation: Once in a while, a user who is in MAIL does a DIR (withinI MAIL) or similar operation and his terminal session gets held for quite arG while, nearly a minute, before MAIL responds.  Ordinarily MAIL respondsm7 immediately (within a second or two) to such a command.t  H During this period he can log onto another terminal session and do a DCLE DIR and other commands; they all respond immediately, so this isn't aPG general system slowdown because of a user running a high priority job.  ) Besides, we don't have any such users :-)e  A This problem doesn't occur for each mail message, and is observeds& infrequently, but enough to bother us.  K By noting the time carefully and checking the accounting file, I've noticeddF that an email message came in at that approximate time.  I checked theG TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG files, and there's one that corresponds to that.J time.  The incoming email message was not destined for this user, however,A but some other user.  Still, it might be related, and here's how.t  J I checked this other user's mail file and noticed a message in the NEWMAILK folder that corresponds to the time of the freeze.  A DIR/FULL showed me itIH had 45 records and was stored in an external file.  This user's MAIL.DIR file size is about 1800 blocks.o  K Fact: For "large" mail messages, VMS MAIL stores the message in an externalaH file and stores a pointer to that file.  Also, when creating a file in aK directory that has many files, sometimes VMS needs to reshuffle the entriesS in the .DIR file.n  J Theory: We often get a large message, which is stored externally.  Once inI a while there is not enough room for a new entry in the .DIR file, so VMSmH has to reorganize the .DIR file's contents, moving them up a block.  TheI name of the external .MAI file is almost random, so there's no telling if-I it would be inserted near the start or end of the .DIR file.  Thus, it is A fairly random how much time the system needs to do the file enter.K operation.  Finally, and here's the long shot, VMS reshuffling the MAIL.DIRtI of any user can cause a freeze or slowdown of MAIL operations by any userK on that system.     E This theory would explain the intermittent nature of the problem, theeK randomness of the time interval for which MAIL is frozen, and why only MAILX3 is affected while the rest of the system is usable.b  H What the theory does not explain is why users other than the user who isK receiving the message and whose MAIL.DIR file is being reshuffled should bee	 affected.   D As a test, I tried copying individual small files into a user's mailH directory while a different user sat in MAIL doing the DIR command.  ForE the first 6 files things proceeded normally, with each COPY operation K taking about 1 sec.  The 7th COPY operation it took well over a minute, anddJ the other user's MAIL DIR command took a similar period.  During this timeG there was a high i/o rate on the user disk.  Just as the COPY operationr= was about to complete the other user's DIR operation started.t  D So, does it sound that the theory is correct?  If it is, what is theF missing part: why does it affect other users?  Is there some lock MAILH takes out?  Or is this just a cpu or i/o intensive operation that causesG the other user to be scheduled much later? (that's stretching it, imho)o  ' And,is there a way to fix this problem?-  E I know of one way: force each user to segment his mail file into manypJ different mail files, each in a separate directory, thus reducing the sizeJ of each .DIR file.  This is unlikely to happen, since it requires a change1 in users' behavior, and not a simple one at that.m  H Is there another way to fix this problem, or reduce its impact?  Thanks.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.eduU   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 02:49:20 GMT/% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>l; Subject: Re: Why does MAIL DIR go slow during mail receive?-5 Message-ID: <Qua8b.147$Ak6.114@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>S  F You did not give anymore information on the Alphaserver config, or the storage setup.  ' Do you have more than one storage disk?-$ Are your mail files all on one disk?  L I believe that the inbound mail message has a higher priority over any otherL MAIL activity since the system cannot tell exactly how many people this mailH file may need to be distributed to.  Therefore, it is freezing all other5 activity until it processes the inbound mail message.d  5 Lawrence Bleau <bleau@umtof.umd.edu> wrote in messagea* news:bjqn2h$f68$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...K > I have a question about an observed slowness in VMS MAIL.  I think I knowhL > why, but want confirmation of my theory, or how to investigate it further,I > as well as suggestions for a fix.  First, my configuration: I'm runningl? > OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2, TCPIP V5.1 ECO 4 on my Alpha workstation.c > H > Observation: Once in a while, a user who is in MAIL does a DIR (withinK > MAIL) or similar operation and his terminal session gets held for quite aSI > while, nearly a minute, before MAIL responds.  Ordinarily MAIL respondsj9 > immediately (within a second or two) to such a command.s >-J > During this period he can log onto another terminal session and do a DCLG > DIR and other commands; they all respond immediately, so this isn't a H > general system slowdown because of a user running a high priority job.+ > Besides, we don't have any such users :-)v >tC > This problem doesn't occur for each mail message, and is observed-( > infrequently, but enough to bother us. >0E > By noting the time carefully and checking the accounting file, I'veM noticedmH > that an email message came in at that approximate time.  I checked theI > TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG files, and there's one that corresponds to thatnL > time.  The incoming email message was not destined for this user, however,C > but some other user.  Still, it might be related, and here's how.  >IL > I checked this other user's mail file and noticed a message in the NEWMAILJ > folder that corresponds to the time of the freeze.  A DIR/FULL showed me itJ > had 45 records and was stored in an external file.  This user's MAIL.DIR! > file size is about 1800 blocks.d >aD > Fact: For "large" mail messages, VMS MAIL stores the message in an externalJ > file and stores a pointer to that file.  Also, when creating a file in aE > directory that has many files, sometimes VMS needs to reshuffle thee entries  > in the .DIR file.  >_L > Theory: We often get a large message, which is stored externally.  Once inK > a while there is not enough room for a new entry in the .DIR file, so VMSnJ > has to reorganize the .DIR file's contents, moving them up a block.  TheK > name of the external .MAI file is almost random, so there's no telling ifpK > it would be inserted near the start or end of the .DIR file.  Thus, it isgC > fairly random how much time the system needs to do the file enteriD > operation.  Finally, and here's the long shot, VMS reshuffling the MAIL.DIRK > of any user can cause a freeze or slowdown of MAIL operations by any userb > on that system.e >sG > This theory would explain the intermittent nature of the problem, theLH > randomness of the time interval for which MAIL is frozen, and why only MAIL5 > is affected while the rest of the system is usable.i >aJ > What the theory does not explain is why users other than the user who isJ > receiving the message and whose MAIL.DIR file is being reshuffled should be > affected.i >dF > As a test, I tried copying individual small files into a user's mailJ > directory while a different user sat in MAIL doing the DIR command.  ForG > the first 6 files things proceeded normally, with each COPY operationpI > taking about 1 sec.  The 7th COPY operation it took well over a minute,e andtL > the other user's MAIL DIR command took a similar period.  During this timeI > there was a high i/o rate on the user disk.  Just as the COPY operationt? > was about to complete the other user's DIR operation started.  >tF > So, does it sound that the theory is correct?  If it is, what is theH > missing part: why does it affect other users?  Is there some lock MAILJ > takes out?  Or is this just a cpu or i/o intensive operation that causesI > the other user to be scheduled much later? (that's stretching it, imho)- >-) > And,is there a way to fix this problem?  >3G > I know of one way: force each user to segment his mail file into manyLL > different mail files, each in a separate directory, thus reducing the sizeL > of each .DIR file.  This is unlikely to happen, since it requires a change3 > in users' behavior, and not a simple one at that.r >lJ > Is there another way to fix this problem, or reduce its impact?  Thanks.   Get a bigger box!   :-)5 Or faster storage.   >e > Lawrence Bleau > University of Maryland$ > Physics Dept., Space Physics Group > 301-405-6223 > bleau@umtof.umd.edut   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.505 ************************