1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 14 Sep 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 509       Contents:# Re: Booting hobbyist CD on PWS433au P Re: I have a fix!!!  Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based ar Max Files Allowed & iSCSI  Re: Max Files Allowed & iSCSI 8 Re: Open Office on VMS [was: Do we need a DCL debugger?]3 Re: Porting from UNIX to OpenVMS for a real newbie.  Re: SCSI-disk replacment Re: SCSI-disk replacment< Re: Strange DCL Problem:  DCL Can't Find My GOSUB Labels.... Re: VMS and MP3s Re: VMS website updated.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2003 18:42:10 -0700$ From: n8wxs@arrl.net (Jeff Campbell), Subject: Re: Booting hobbyist CD on PWS433au= Message-ID: <1a40a0b2.0309131742.40e592d6@posting.google.com>   i issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) wrote in message news:<d0141774.0309122359.5b99cf96@posting.google.com>... D > Having finally got my PWS433au up and running, I've been trying to3 > boot the Alpha hobbyist CD with thus far no luck. F > I pulled the ATAPI CDROM from the box and installed an RRD42 which IH > know is OK as it's been doing its stuff happily in my VAXstation for aE > while now. The SCSI card is a DEC (Qlogic) KZPBA-CX and the console  > firmware is V7.2-1. H > When I do a 'boot dka400' I get the usual 'jumping to bootstrap' stuffG > then a bit of a delay, then the 'OpenVMS 7.2' banner appears, another  > delay, then... > , > 'failed to send read to dka400.4.0.1010.0', > 'error loading IO_ROUTINES.EXE, status=54' > G > Anyone know what is going on? I've tried booting an old OSF CD and it G > dies in a similar fashion. I've triple checked my SCSI connectors and % > terminations and it all looks good.  >  > Any help much appreciated.  A Despite what the SRM console claims, your base machine is a 433a.   I If you actually have a -au you wouldn't need to remove the IDE CDROM. 8-) F Your machine would have an embedded Qlogic SCSI interface, so you also wouldn't need the KZPBA. 8-)  L The KZPBA needs to be install in one of the 3 upper PCI slots, not in either> of the 2 lowest PCI slots. It needs to be behind a PCI bridge.  
 Check out:  P  <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/workstations/retired/aseries/index.html>  
 Jeff Campbell  n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2003 12:45:28 -0700$ From: svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth)Y Subject: Re: I have a fix!!!  Re: Anyone else having problems with VMS and HSG80-based ar = Message-ID: <5a85bce2.0309131145.507a2362@posting.google.com>    "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> wrote in message news:<3f62dad8$0$95043$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>... @ > I have also seen this sort of problem with out of date KGPSA's >  > --   > David McKenzie > 9 > David.Mckenzie@paradigm-shift.dot.biz  remove the "dot"  > OpenVMS IT Privacy and Law  D Do you mean firmware that it out-of-date?  I am very careful to keepE my ES40 up-to-date whenever new AlphaServer firmware is announced.  I F let the firmware update upgrade *all* of the pieces in the system that it can upgrade.   F I'll double-check the firmware version this afternoon when the ES40 is* rebooted to install the 731-MSA1000 patch.   Thanks,    -Scott   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:45:17 -0500 , From: Gary L. Ross <rossgl@parknicollet.com>" Subject: Max Files Allowed & iSCSI8 Message-ID: <rja7mvo66fkj83l78lj5q2mvnbr03sltu2@4ax.com>   Q1  E Is there a limit (size of disk and file aside) to the number of files A allowed on a disk?  I'm putting several (1500 a day) unique files D out on a 9GB drive and want to make sure I won't reach a file limit.: In other words, can I put 50,000 files into one directory?   Q2  @ Is there any support for VMS to attach to iSCSI storage?  We areC running VMS 7.2-2 on an Alpha4100 currently to 4 HSZ80 controllers.    Thanks.    Gary L. Ross rossgl_at_parknicollet_dot_com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:30:47 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> & Subject: Re: Max Files Allowed & iSCSI7 Message-ID: <rpQ8b.4307$Ak6.3426@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   7 Gary L. Ross <rossgl@parknicollet.com> wrote in message 2 news:rja7mvo66fkj83l78lj5q2mvnbr03sltu2@4ax.com... > Q1 > G > Is there a limit (size of disk and file aside) to the number of files C > allowed on a disk?  I'm putting several (1500 a day) unique files F > out on a 9GB drive and want to make sure I won't reach a file limit.< > In other words, can I put 50,000 files into one directory?  * This is set when you INITIALIZE the drive.  K Depending on the parameters that you init the drive with will determine the J size of the INDEXF.SYS file.  you can easily initialize a volume to hold a' million files or more if you so choose.     Look at HELP INIT for more info.   > Q2 > B > Is there any support for VMS to attach to iSCSI storage?  We areE > running VMS 7.2-2 on an Alpha4100 currently to 4 HSZ80 controllers.  > 	 > Thanks.  >  > Gary L. Ross  > rossgl_at_parknicollet_dot_com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 03:17:19 +0200 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>A Subject: Re: Open Office on VMS [was: Do we need a DCL debugger?] 7 Message-ID: <3F63C19F.2E73@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>    Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > , > On 8 Sep 2003 at 9:08, John Travell wrote:H > > > Have you tried using OpenOffice from OpenOffice.Org?  it reads andD > > > writes MSOffice files without the bugs in MSOffice... Runs on F > > > Windows, Linux and MAC OS X.  I have used it for a while and it  > > > works great. > > ( > > Has anyone tried porting OO to VMS ? > G > There is a group of volunteers in Europe working on that as we speak. ? > If you'd like to contribute some time, I can get you an email 
 > address.  7 They have a website at : http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org/    --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:24:01 +0100 0 From: "Dr. David Kirkby" <drkirkby@ntlworld.com>< Subject: Re: Porting from UNIX to OpenVMS for a real newbie., Message-ID: <3F63C331.504FF4B4@ntlworld.com>   David Jones wrote: > ? > In message <bbdc5d83.0309121705.4282adf3@posting.google.com>, 5 >    drkirkby@ntlworld.com (Dr. David Kirkby) writes: C > >The problem is the application uses the normal (in UNIX circles) C > >autoconf/automake. What effort is likely to be needed to port to @ > >OpenVMS? There are probably about 12000 lines of C and has 15 > >binaries. > , > >Are there any quick ways of porting this? > J > No.  Have you ever counted the number lines in the configure script that > autoconf generates?   H I just did and it was 9025. However, I have probably gone a bit over the3 top in testing for things like math.h and stdio.h.    A Part of the code, which is certainly not essential, tries to find D information about the hardware of a system. This I realise is highly@ unportable and for this reason there are numerous checks to findH information such as the amount of ram on Suns, IBM's, HP, a Cray ... etcF etc. So there is a lot of baggage that would not be needed is a simple port.   F I'll describe briefly what the package consists of, and what parts are9 essential and those that are not essential to be ported.    F The function of the package is to numerically determine the electricalC properties (mainly impedance) of electrical transmission lines, for E geometries where there are no analytical equations available. It does 3 this using a technique called 'finite difference'.    G The package does 6 things. 1 and 3 are absolutely essential, the others  less so.  A 1) A set of about 8 programs which automatically generates simple H bitmaps (.bmp) files. By simple, I mean a rectangle inside another, or aH circle inside another etc. The programs read the sizes, colours etc fromG a number of command line arguments. These sort of images are produced.    + http://atlc.sourceforge.net/generators.html   > The bitmaps are used to represent conductors and insulators on electrical transmission lines.    G I would have thought that quite simple. I'm sure these could be done on  any computer.   E The only possible hitch is that there needs to be some way of reading H command line options. Currently I have my own routines like the getopt()F function, but I dug out the source from somewhere to making porting to5 Windows possible. So I have a line of code like this:   < while((q=get_options(argc,argv,"Cr:vsSc:d:p:i:t:w:")) != -1)  G Are argc, and argv okay on OpenVMS ??  I guess that is just standard C, % so assume there is no problem there.    F 2) Some of the binaries in (1) can optionally compute some theoreticalH values for some of the electrical transmission lines. These need the GNU@ Scientific library (gsl) to be present. However, computing these0 theoretical values is not essential for a port.   > 3) A single executable called 'altc' that opens a bitmap file,@ interprets the different colours as conductors or insulators andD performs a CPU intensive finite difference simulation. I don't think+ there is anything very complex about this.  G The code then writes some text to stdout and creates a number of bitmap / files with pretty pictures in them, like these:   ) http://atlc.sourceforge.net/examples.html   F 4) Highly desirable is a set of test routines. Currently these use theD autoconf/automake test method so they are executed when I type 'make	 check'.     D Essentially the MD5 checksums of the bitmaps created are compared toH those expected. Any differences are a test failure. I have my own binary: to compute the md5 checksum, so don't require it present.   ? 5) The finite difference program 'atlc' mentioned in (3) can be F configured to uses POSIX threads and hence support multiple CPUs. This% is not critical to a successful port.   A 6) The last part (which is just implemented as a test under 'make E check') runs a benchmark, timing how long something takes, to see the E effect of compiler flags and how well multiple CPUs are being used if D present. A number of people sent me their run times, so I added some? code to determine their CPU type, number of CPUs, ram etc. That F information is not essential and I suspect would be highly unportable.E Most desirable, if POSIX threads existed, would be a way to determine G the number of CPUs present. If there is no support for threads, there's F no point in even knowing how many CPUs there are, since only one would	 be used.    H So you see there is a mixture of essential bits, some non essential bitsD requiring the GNU Scientific library, a set of highly desirable testD routines, optionally support for multiple CPUs via POSIX threads and> perhaps some code to find out a bit of basic hardware details.    C > >Can I assume (unlike on UNIX systems) that VMS and OpenVMS has a  > >common set of header files? > M > There is a common set of header files, but they have differences based upon N > the compiler version (as they've gradually made the run-time more compatible
 > with UNIX).   G I suspect the only one reallly essential are math.h, stdio.h, stdlib.h, " string.h. Perhaps sys/sys_types.h   H The code makes not assumptions about the sizeof integers or whatever. ItH will happily built on a Cray Y-MP, where sizeof(short)=8, sizeof(int)=8, sizeof(long)=8.     D I might try to build a minimal system under UNIX by including a fileH config.h. I think that configure.h could probably just consist of half a dozen lines in it.     --  A "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably  > the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge.   Dr. David Kirkby,  Senior Research Fellow,  Department of Medical Physics, University College London," 11-20 Capper St, London, WC1E 6JA., Website: http://www.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/~davek- Author of 'atlc' http://atlc.sourceforge.net/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:51:33 GMT 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: SCSI-disk replacment L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1309031400020001@user-uinj0hs.dialup.mindspring.com>  P In article <bjv255$hh5$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:   >Hi, > J >OpenVMS 7.3-1: I would like to replace a SCSI-disk that is currently in aH >storage works carrier. The carrier is in one of these "pizza boxes" andJ >connected to an Alphastation. I dismount the disk and remove the carrier.K >No problem so far. Now what about the new disk? The SCSI-bus is fast-wide. I >The new disk is LVD but has a jumper to set it to "single-ended". When I M >install the new disk a "SHOW DEVICE/FULL" still shows the old drive. I tried J >"MC SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE/SELECT=DKB*" but this didn't change anything.6 >Will a reboot help? Or is the disk just not suitable?  J I don't think VMS will notice the new drive properties until you MOUNT it.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:59:19 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> ! Subject: Re: SCSI-disk replacment 7 Message-ID: <bQQ8b.4421$Ak6.1679@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   > Christoph Gartmann <gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de> wrote in message* news:bjv255$hh5$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de... > Hi,  > K > OpenVMS 7.3-1: I would like to replace a SCSI-disk that is currently in a I > storage works carrier. The carrier is in one of these "pizza boxes" and K > connected to an Alphastation. I dismount the disk and remove the carrier. L > No problem so far. Now what about the new disk? The SCSI-bus is fast-wide.J > The new disk is LVD but has a jumper to set it to "single-ended". When IH > install the new disk a "SHOW DEVICE/FULL" still shows the old drive. I tried K > "MC SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE/SELECT=DKB*" but this didn't change anything. 7 > Will a reboot help? Or is the disk just not suitable?    IO AUTO looks for new devices.J IO SCSI_PATH_VERIFY  (IO SCSI)  Verify's the paths of existing devices and3 allows you to change the devices without a re-boot. I   Since this is a replacement of an existing device, I would try IO SCSI,  and then IO AUTO /LOG   D Note: re-booting wouldn't hurt if you have the option of re-booting.   > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann  >  > --G >  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452  >  ImmunbiologieC >  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de  >  D-79011  Freiburg, Germany ; >                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2003 15:13:44 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) E Subject: Re: Strange DCL Problem:  DCL Can't Find My GOSUB Labels.... 3 Message-ID: <z4XZboc3X4wd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   : On 12 Sep 2003 14:53:29 -0700, 	 (Robert Alan Byer) wrote:   G >I have a rather large DCL script I've been working on for the past few  >months   ...G >today when I added a big subroutine and now I get the following error.  > ? >%DCL-W-USGOSUB, target of GOSUB not found - check spelling and  >presence of label  F Did you try analyzing it with Charlie Hammond's freeware DCL checker ?  4 (Google this newsgroup for acquisition information.)  H If that does not detect the problem, please provide feedback to Charlie.H Regardless of whether or not he has time to work on in, he should be the@ repository of feature requests (and fixes you may devise to it).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:46:51 -0400 0 From: "Jeff Morgan" <vmswiz@geonospamcities.com> Subject: Re: VMS and MP3s - Message-ID: <bk039h$dknt$1@news3.infoave.net>   J I used dbPowerAmp music converter on a pc. Does a great job of ripping theJ mp3s, grabs the song names from the internet databases, and constructs theL file name based on artist and song. Makes it easy to organize mp3s by artist on the Pathworks share.   H Use an ODS-5 disk for the share. Huge file names with lots of spaces andJ special characters. Have to truncate some of the file names when I re-burnJ them to DVD-R (on the pc). I shrunk my music CD collection from 450+ disksL down to 8 DVDs for backup. The $49 APEX dvd player also works great with DVD MP3 disks on my stereo.   I Do you really need streaming? If the network is fast enough, why not just ( download the whole mp3 and then play it.  H I just use the Pathworks share and map a network drive for Media Player.G This really works out to be the same as streaming... reading across the I network as it plays. I've never noticed any gaps or stutters on a 10 mbit  connection.   J Now, if your intention is to listen to your home music collection from theK office, then streaming might be useful. OSU serves mp3s just fine, just not L in a streaming mode. Another possibility is in windows XP you could define aE "favorite network places" as an ftp site pointing to your VMS server.   I (IT old-timers know how to problem solve even when we don't know what the  problem is... ; - )   6                                                   Jeff  A "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:wf5yHbu5AkrR@eisner.encompasserve.org... = > In article <bjrc9p$avo0$1@news3.infoave.net>, "Jeff Morgan" $ <vmswiz@geonospamcities.com> writes:L > > And then, of course I've ripped all my music CDs to MP3s (YES, legally!) and G > > every pc in the house can play them off a pathworks fileshare using  Windows  > > Media Player.  > 4 > Did you rip your CD's on the VMS box?  If so, how? > ? > Does anyone know of a handy mp3 streamer for VMS web servers?  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:11:07 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: VMS website updated. 2 Message-ID: <SVWdnYiCaLqDL_6iXTWJjA@metrocast.net>  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:$y6ed0HVjEqj@elias.decus.ch... C > In article <3F60F4D1.53B8969F@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell  <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> writes: > > John Travell wrote: F > >> I am well aware how this group are not representative of the vast
 ma[jo]rity of H > >> internet users, but I had not fully appreciated just how much a few vocal : > >> members seem to have theirs heads buried in the sand. > > L > > OK, that is such an outrageous statement you have brought me out of lurk mode. L > > For the record, I might run some up-to-date browser on my VMS systems if I G > > really felt like it.  But most of the time I browse on Windows WITH 
 JAVASCRIPTI > > TURNED OFF.  I rarely use NS or IE because it is so difficult to turn 	 scripting E > > back on again when some braying jackass forces me into it just to  navigate their > > obnoxious website.  J I actually don't find it particularly onerous to require prompts for js inL IE.  I usually answer 'no', but as much to avoid screen clutter that I'm notI interested in as for security purposes (my wife has it turned on, and has * yet to be bitten by any malware problems).  >   So usually I use Opera, where the Quick Preferences pulldown6 > > menu allows me easily to turn scripting on or off. > >  >  > <snip> > > > Well, this discussion prompted me to do a bit of Googling...  5 And it caused me to do at least minimal verification.    > ) > http://www.stremler.net/javascript.html  >  > Not much in itself,   L And its 'eviljs' example failed to crash even my insecure old Win98SE system4 (though it caused IE to hang and I had to abort it).    but links to the following: > < > http://www.clock.org/~fair/opinion/javascript-is-evil.html6 > http://www.clock.org/~fair/opinion/system-crash.html  J Full of generalities that apply to virtually any software.  In a nutshell,L the author doesn't trust JVM implementors to have created a secure product -F and since virtually no product is *provably* secure he's likely right.J However, since virtually no product is provably secure, virtually everyoneI runs insecure code all the time - even if they never come within shouting  distance of js.   L It's true that js greatly increases the number of instances where people runL potentially malicious code in that potentially insecure environment, but theK proof of the pudding is in actual exploits - which are conspicuously absent I in that exposition.  Since I don't particularly like the *idea* of random H code running on my system (even in a sandbox), and since I usually don'tJ find that js adds to my surfing experience, I usually keep it at bay - butI that's a personal choice and a far cry from demanding that it be expunged  from the cosmos.   > A > But the next link moves off the subject of Javascript and is so > > hilarious (and truly sad too), that I am posting it in full: > $ > http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html >  > original at: > 2 > http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/17.44.html#subj11 > L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - + > FOCUS Magazine Interview with Bill Gates: 9 > Microsoft Code Has No Bugs (that Microsoft cares about)  > J > In this interview, Big Bill gets distracted and reveals his contempt for > you, his loyal customer. >  > Slashdotters: yes, it's real.  > G > Note: this page is also available in Italiano, Espaol, and Japanese.  > K > In an interview for German weekly magazine FOCUS (nr.43, October 23,1995, K > pages 206-212), Microsoft`s Mr. Bill Gates has made some statements about H > software quality of MS products. [See executive summary, below.] AfterJ > lengthy inquiries about how PCs should and could be used (including someK > angry comments on some questions which Mr. Gates evidently did not like), L > the interviewer comes to storage requirements of MS products; it ends with > the following dispute: >  >  > L > FOCUS:  Every new release of a software which has less bugs than the older3 > one is also more complex and has more features...  > + > Gates:  No, only if that is what'll sell!  >  > FOCUS:  But... > L > Gates:  Only if that is what'll sell! We've never done a piece of softwareJ > unless we thought it would sell. That's why everything we do in softwareJ > ... it's really amazing: We do it because we think that's what customers$ > want. That's why we do what we do. > J > FOCUS:  But on the other hand - you would say: Okay, folks, if you don'tH > like these new features, stay with the old version, and keep the bugs? > J > Gates:  No! We have lots and lots of competitors. The new version - it'sD > not there to fix bugs. That's not the reason we come up with a new version. > J > FOCUS:  But there are bugs an any version which people would really like to
 > have fixed.  > I > Gates:  No! There are no significant bugs in our released software that  any ) > significant number of users want fixed.  > I > FOCUS:  Oh, my God. I always get mad at my computer if MS Word swallows  the H > page numbers of a document which I printed a couple of times with pageH > numbers. If I complain to anybody they say "Well, upgrade from version 5.11
 > to 6.0". > H > Gates:  No! If you really think there's a bug you should report a bug.D > Maybe you're not using it properly. Have you ever considered that? >  > FOCUS:  Yeah, I did... > K > Gates:  It turns out Luddites don't know how to use software properly, so J > you should look into that. -- The reason we come up with new versions isJ > not to fix bugs. It's absolutely not. It's the stupidest reason to buy aJ > new version I ever heard. When we do a new version we put in lots of newH > things that people are asking for. And so, in no sense, is stability a7 > reason to move to a new version. It's never a reason.  > G > FOCUS:  How come I keep being told by computer vendors "Well, we know  about H > this bug, wait till the next version is there, it'll be fixed"? I hear thisL > all the time. How come? If you're telling me there are no significant bugs9 > in software and there is no reason to do a new version?  > J > Gates:  No. I'm saying: We don't do a new version to fix bugs. We don't.E > Not enough people would buy it. You can take a hundred people using K > Microsoft Word. Call them up and say "Would you buy a new version because I > of bugs?" You won't get a single person to say they'd buy a new version F > because of bugs. We'd never be able to sell a release on that basis. > K > FOCUS:  Probably you have other contacts to your software developers. But J > if Mister Anybody, like me, calls up a store or a support line and says,I > "Hey listen, there's a bug" ... 90 percent of the time I get the answer L > "Oh, well, yeah, that's not too bad, wait to the next version and it'll be& > fixed". That's how the system works. > < > Gates:  Guess how much we spend on phone calls every year. > * > FOCUS:  Hm, a couple of million dollars? > L > Gates:  500 million dollars a year. We take every one of these phone callsL > and classify them. That's the input we use to do the next version. So it'sK > like the worlds biggest feedback loop. People call in - we decide what to K > do on it. Do you want to know what percentage of those phonecalls relates 1 > to bugs in the software? Less than one percent.  > I > FOCUS:  So people call in to say "Hey listen, I would love to have this  and  > that feature"? > G > Gates:  Actually, that's about five percent. Most of them call to get K > advice on how to do a certain thing with the software. That's the primary I > thing. We could have you sit and listen to these phone calls. There are K > millions and millions of them. It really isn't statistically significant. I > Sit in and listen to Win 95 calls, sit in and listen to Word calls, and K > wait, just wait for weeks and weeks for someone to call in and say "Oh, I ! > found a bug in this thing". ...  > I > FOCUS:  So where does this common feeling of frustration come from that H > unites all the PC users? Everybody experiences it every day that these, > things simply don't work like they should. > I > Gates:  Because it's cool. It's like, "Yeah, been there done that - oh, L > yeah, I know that bug." - I can understand that phenomenon sociologically, > not technically. >  >  >  > Executive Summary: >  > So...  > A > Bug reports are statistically, therefore actually, unimportant;   F You won't find the word 'unimportant' in that quote above, with eitherI 'statistically' or 'actually'.  That's because Gates never said that:  he I said that most *users* did not find them significant - and had the 'phone  statistics to back it up.      If you< > want a bug fixed, you are (by definition) in the minority;  J Not 'by definition' but by actual count - at least in terms of what peopleI request from MS.  Of course, the fact that MS offers bug-fixes/updates on I line free of charge would tend to decrease the pressure to create special H bug-fix-only releases, so those people most interested in fixes probablyE just obtain them via that route and never contact MS with any kind of  request for it.      Microsoft K > doesn't care about bugs because bug fixes are not a significant source of 
 > revenue;  I Once again, you won't find *any* comment from Gates to the effect that MS G "doesn't care about bugs":  he just stated that they weren't the reason B people bought new releases, and that's almost certainly true.  TheI significant effort MS puts into its 'Windows Update' and on-line FAQ/help D facilities is sufficient indication that they take support seriouslyG (perhaps more seriously than they used to take initial quality - though = whether that actually changed recently has yet to be proved).   ;   If you think you found a bug, it really only means you're  > incompetent;  K Wrong yet again.  What he said was that if you think you've found a bug you J should report it, and then raised the *possibility* that some such beliefsJ might be incorrect.  My guess is that he had by then caught a strong whiff0 of the reporter's bias and had had enough of it.  ?   Anyway, people only complain about bugs to show how cool they 0 > are, not because bugs cause any real problems.  C Zero for five:  if you want incompetence, look no farther than this J reporting.  Gates offered a sociological basis for *most*, but hardly all,J of the common complaints about bugs, and never said that they didn't causeG *any* real problems, just that they did not create major problems for a L significant number (I'd read that as 'percentage', because even a very smallH percentage of MS users would be a rather significant 'number' IMO) of MS users.   > " > Straight from the horse's mouth.  K Just to make it clear to those who didn't bother to follow Paul's link, all L the above quoted words below the dashed line are the article's not his - and@ I hope he's a careful enough reader to have noted the fallacies.  I I don't like MS software quality, and I don't like MS business practices. H But I also don't like sloppy analysis, especially when it knocks someone8 (whether I like them or not) for things they never said.   - bill   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.509 ************************                                                                                  /ciHQ>@Ɠ5K-S4N#2!KfY1K#W7'|$3/RLu-2`Gx>P&䌝Tʼ:/Z.mIJA	j
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