1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 23 Sep 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 528       Contents:0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way?0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way?0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way?0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way?0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way?0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way?0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way?0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? Alpha firmware updates3 Backhoes (was Re: Creating a wide area VMS Cluster)  BEA WebLogic and VMS	 BootCamp? 
 Re: BootCamp? 
 Re: BootCamp? 
 Re: BootCamp? 
 Re: BootCamp? # Re: Booting hobbyist CD on PWS433au  dcl.OpenVMS.org  Re: dcl.OpenVMS.org  digital basics  FTP shutdown/startup on VMS V7.2! Re: License requirements for ES47 " Re: More on Microsoft, Sun and SCO non-interactive audio capture J Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu  warsJ Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu  warsJ Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu  warsJ Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu  warsE Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu wars P Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu wars warswa) Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer ) Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer ) Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer ) Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer  OpenVMS v8.0 (IPF) Re: OpenVMS v8.0 (IPF)+ Re: Oracle 8.1.7.4 on VMS 7.2-2 Performance & Re: OT: Verisign's contract with ICANN Re: PCI Device Access + Re: Possible e-mail scam allegedly from HP. D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?/ SMTP to PMDF IMAP vms mail w/attachments hosed? " Re: source for 431 pin CPU socket?0 SWEN, McAfee VIRUSSCAN (tm) and all these things. TCPIP Services: SLIP and terminal flow control. Re: TCPIP:DNS Dual interfaces and domain namesP Re: There is no Joy in Sunville -- mighty Billy has struck out [on his own] his * Re: Trying to figure out license transfers Re: vax/vms cobol job? Re: Virtul Tape Driver Re: Virtul Tape Driver Re: Virtul Tape Driver Re: Virtul Tape Driver Re: Virtul Tape Driver Re: Virtul Tape Driver Re: Virtul Tape Driver" Re: VMS mentioned in Linux article" Re: VMS mentioned in Linux article" Re: VMS mentioned in Linux article  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:14:37 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> 9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? + Message-ID: <3F6FE559.ED1E82A9@pacbell.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Don Sykes wrote:F > > bat company. The situation with MS products is more like cigaretteL > > manufactures, which HAVE been sued successfully. MS is selling a productL > > that is, ostensibly, designed to provide some level of security. I thinkI > > the argument could easily be made that they have been so negligent in E > > that area that, like cigarettes, even if their product is used as   > > intended, it can cause harm. > L > Or we could compare MS to a butcher who knowingly sells meat that has beenO > prepared in unsanitary conditions but is packaged in such flashy colours that  > it sells meat by the tonne.  > N > When people get sick, MS simply accuse them of not cooking their meat enough" > and declines any responsability. >   ( We agree! Mars must be in retrograde! :)   --     Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:45:53 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? ) Message-ID: <bko541$89a$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   U In article <3F6F2D84.C71B058F@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:  >  >   >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >>  X >> In article <3F6CABF0.BAD2DD4C@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >> >I >> >As I've been complaining about recently, I can't even get the HP SMTP J >> >service to check incoming messgaes for a valid user during the initialJ >> >connection, which IIRC could be done in the 2nd step of the connection >> >process! >> >E >> What do you mean by a valid user ? How can you check it is valid ?  > G >My SMTP service like all others listen on port 25 for mail directed to G >my domain. When I get connection request I must respond with READY (or G >something), they then say who they are and who the mail is directed to G >(MAIL FROM: RCPT TO: ). Since my server is responsible for my domain's 8 >mail it should have a list of the domain's valid users.  9 Currently any mail client can easily forge the MAIL FROM. N Forging the RCPT TO:  (as opposed to the TO line at the top of the actual mailE message) is pointless since that is what is used to deliver the mail. N In order to deliver the mail the final server MUST know all the valid users itN can deliver to. Exactly when in processing a mail message that information canL be applied to bounce the message if it is for a non-existant user depends onB the mail server software however it MUST be applied at some point.      F >While this doesn't stop invalid mails until they get to my domain, at >least I can drop them there.  > N >> Even before verisign's idiocy checking that the sender's domain existed wasR >> extremely error prone because of the large number of misconfigured mail systems >> and DNSs.L >> The other check which people used was an ident check - but again this wasM >> pretty useless - either the information was incorrect or the sender wasn't  >> running an ident daemon.  >>  J >> >This most recent onslaught of crap is just another example of what theB >> >problem REALLY is - i.e. no check points along the email path. >>  K >> You would need to totally redesign TCPIP and SMTP with security in mind. J >> To make it really work would probably involve mandatory digital signing >> of all mail.  > A >This is my point. Something drastic needs to be done because the H >situation is only going to get worse until there is a serious "handle".H >Mandatory digital signing MAY be part of the solution. It's a big issueH >and I'm not going to try to suggest all the technical details here. But- >the current protocols are not doing the job.  >  >>   >> > In the H >> >current SMTP model the only one who even has an opportunity to block. >> >spam & assc viruses is the end receipient. >>  N >> You can block viruses at the mailhub level the problem is what you then do.H >> Do you send the sender a message to let them know they are infected ?= >> Do you clean the message and deliver it to the recipient ?  >> Do you delete the message ? >>  Q >> With the latest viruses which are prolific, contain nothing of value and forge N >> the from address I'd argue the only sensible thing to do is to delete them.5 >> However that may be illegal in some jurisdictions.  > I >It can't be illegal for me to delete mail that's addressed to my domain.   I This is just hearsay. But I believe in Germany it is illegal to purposely 5 delete mail - it must either be delivered or bounced.        >I think I need to clarify :@ >There are 2 possible points of checking even using the existingI >protocols. When a user sends a mail to his outbound mail server and when D >the mail arrives at the inbound mail server. These points are whereF >checking needs to be done. The outbound mail server could insure thatF >any mail it passes on is from a valid user (i.e. anyone authorized toG >use that domain & server) and, optionally, check some (suspect, random I >or other method) emails for viruses. The receiving server needs to check H >that the recipient is a vaild user in that domain, or group of domains, >which it is serving.  >   H The fact that the outbound server checks the mail is coming from a validK machine/user would have zero effect on the sending of viruses. The infected N machine is a valid machine in the domain. The virus is running on that machine% under a valid userid on that machine.   N And unless you could apply this to ALL systems worldwide, ban ISPs from givingJ out free mail accounts on CDs, ban mail anonymizers etc those spammers whoJ didn't then use viruses to spread their spam would not be affected either.  > The receiving server must either check itself that the user isL valid or pass the mail to some other internal final destination(s) for that I determination. It should not pass any mail it receives from outside to an J external final destination since that would make the system an open-relay.       >>  M >> Spam is a worse problem. Unfortunately one persons Spam is another persons  >> important mail message. >>   >> For example >>  - >> Mailhub receives a mail message for a user  >>  # >> Message contains phrases such as  >>   >> You have won  >>   >> Million Pounds  >>   >> Please respond  >>  * >> Typical spam right ?  So you delete it. >>  N >> What you don't know is this user has been gambling on say lottery.co.uk and* >> has just won their Million pound prize. >>  P >> Are they going to be happy when they find out the mailhub deleted that mail -M >> especially if there is a time limit as to when they can claim there prize.  >>  L >> The best a central mailhub can do is either deliver the mail marked up inP >> someway to say it looks like spam or quarantine it and let the user know theyL >> can release it otherwise it will be automatically deleted after a certain
 >> period. >>  R >> The end user is the only one who can determine that any particular mail is SPAM  >> as far as they are concerned. > I >Your example demonstrates just how feeble the current methods of dealing F >with spam are. Filtering a subject line is a poor way of dealing withF >spam, regardless of where in the path you apply it, as I argue below. >   N What I'm arguing is that only the end user can know whether something is or isN not spam. Spam is a nebulous concept. Everybody knows what Spam is until they N have to sit down and rigorously define it. Then the borders get blurry betweenH what one person regards as spam and another regards as an important mailK message. Definitions along the lines of unsolicited bulk email are great in ! theory but difficult in practise.      >>   >> >This means that even if you J >> >have a "good filter" on your email reader and don't ever "see" the badH >> >emails, an enormous amount of bandwidth is taken up on the internet,I >> >because each piece of crap sent out gets the same treatment all along K >> >the way to the destination user. Only then do we get a chance to ignore K >> >it. So who's at fault? Our own industry for embracing tcpip/smtp as the K >> >holly grail in its original form - i.e. no forced checkpoints. As I see K >> >it any ISP that is authorized to hand out an IP address s/b responsible J >> >for its misuse. They should at minimum be required to check the sourceA >> >of all email to be sure it's valid and has not been spoofed.    L A number of ISPs tried this a few years ago. Any mail sent from them had to L have a from/reply-to address in their domain. They had to drop it because ofO the howls of protest. The standard way of stopping home users from being caught J by a company's anti-mail relaying rules when they are using their home ISPN is for them to use their ISPs mailhub. But they want any replies to go back toJ their mail address at their company. Hence they require the ability to set5 their from/reply-to address to that of their company.        	 >>Further F >> >each of the ISP's customers should have to register an approximateJ >> >number of emails they will be sending out in any one day. Then if theyG >> >grossly exceeded that, the initial ISP router should reject further G >> >emails and immediately inform their customer of the action. Any ISP I >> >failing to do this should have their IP addresses revoked or put on a G >> >lookaside list of all legit routers and not route emails from them.  >> >D >> >Granted this is a half-baked idea at this point, but if WE, as aJ >> >community, are ever going to stop this madness, we're going to have toJ >> >come up with a technical solution at a fundamental, routing level; notF >> >just add more and different filters for the end user to implement. >> > >>  M >> For this too work it would have to be applied to every source of smtp mail P >> worldwide - it's just not going to happen. Despite blacklists there are still5 >> tons and tons of open-relays for a spammer to use.  > E >It's going to HAVE TO happen sooner or later. Consider the bandwidth F >this crap is taking up, let alone the thousands of man hours it takes >just delete this stuff.F >The answer may be to abandon Simple Mail Transfer Protocol for SecureG >Mail Transfer Protocol. Same acronym - different methods. Part of this D >new protocol may be that you don't "relay" anything, unless it's toA >addresses in other domains that are within your area of control.  >   K I doubt you can design a really secure email system. Even my suggestion of  J mandatory digital signatures would not have any effect on viruses or spam K delivered by viruses. The solution to that is more secure computer systems   rather than billyboxes.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >--  >  >Have VMS, Will Travel >Wire paladin, San Francisco >  >(paladinATalphaseDOTcom)  >  ><snip>    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:03:09 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? 4 Message-ID: <3f700c52$0$27588$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  0 Your French is getting better all the time, Paul :-)    D. (back)   Paul Sture wrote:    > Merci beaucoup.    --  - Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros                      Tout VMS.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Sep 2003 12:54:02 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? 9 Message-ID: <bkpfp9$41rqd$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   + In article <3F6FD52F.946DF84C@pacbell.net>, * 	Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>   >>  K >> Sadly, if only one idiot responds then the return has exceeded the cost. M >> I have often wondered at the general intelligence of the SPAMers.  Knowing L >> that America is famous for being a mono-lingual culture, just who do theyN >> think is going to read all that junk in Spanish, Portugese and worse still,L >> in big5!!  I am multi-lingual and even I don't have a mail program (I use< >> Pine which makes me virus safe) that can comprehend big5. >  > What's big 5?    Chinese charset    >>  A >> OK, I'm baffled.  Under what possible law could it be illegal?  > J > Breaking and entering maybe. This is no different than a thief who couldI > figure out a way to steal my electric and have me pay for it. Infecting F > a system with software that steals my CPU cycles is exactly the sameD > thing, as far as I'm concerned and s/b prosecuted in the same way.  = Most likely you would find yourself on the receiving end of a > counter suit for "running an attractive nuisance".  And in the  end, only the lawyers would win.   >  >>  L >> >                                                                     TheL >> > most immediate idea that comes to mind is a class action suit againt MS@ >> > for providing such holes. Maybe it's already being pursued. >>  L >> No lawyer worth a damn would take the case, even if it had merit.  First,J >> the Federal Govt. was unsuccessful at reigning in MS and second you areK >> back to the illegal baseball bat law (just because you can break the law 3 >> with something doesn't make the object illegal.)  > J > Not at all. Baseball bats are sold with the intention of the buyer usingI > them to play baseball. If they are misused, that's not the fault of the  > bat company.    : True, and if the computer, OS or Email system are abused??  D >              The situation with MS products is more like cigarette3 > manufactures, which HAVE been sued successfully.    G And yet, they are still ont he market and in most venues, now protected E from lawsuits because of a meaningless federal settlement that hasn't + reduced their sale or profits by even 1%.     L >                                                    MS is selling a productC > that is, ostensibly, designed to provide some level of security.    D Actually, if you read the warranty closely (and it has also not beenI struck down by any court) they guarantee nothing, certainly not security.   J >                                                                  I thinkG > the argument could easily be made that they have been so negligent in C > that area that, like cigarettes, even if their product is used as H > intended, it can cause harm. The fact that they're not actually makingH > the viruses is not significant, if they knowingly provided a bed where, > such viruses and worms are known to breed.  D So then the makers of crowbars and electric drills too, And any of aG thousand ordinary products that can be abused to commit crimes or cause ( havoc.  Sorry, it's not going to happen.   >> >> M >> >> Personally, I would like to see the INTERNET split into two parts.  One N >> >> like it is today where anything goes and another like it used to be withN >> >> extremely strong AUP's and no forgiveness.  Commercializing the INTERNETP >> >> was the worst mistake made in the computer industry.  It took an extremelyO >> >> useful tool and made it more of a "vast wasteland" than even TV.  I think C >> >> it is clear which of the two above I would choose to work on.  >> >>  >> >K >> > COUNT ME IN!!! I would even be willing to pay a little more for such a  >> > service - ISP's take note.  >>  H >> Sadly, I think it unlikely to occur.  Hmmmm....  I wonder if we couldF >> revive comp.mail.maps and bring USENET back using the INTERNET onlyF >> for the transport medium.  And then just refuse email and news fromO >> those that were not members.  Could give a whole new meaning to the UDP. :-)  >>    J Hmmmmm.......  This idea is looking more and more interesting.  InterestedL parties could link together by agreement and just not allow gateways betweenH our email and the rest of the world.  If you wanted to read all the junkH you still have INTERNET Email but for serious discussions, mailing listsE and USENET News the way it was intended to be you have a much smaller M but much more serious group.  The decreased numbers would be more than offset G by the really low signal to noise ratio.  And, without all the trash or N alt groups I could probably get away with running my own newsserver again. :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 23 Sep 2003 13:07:07 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? 9 Message-ID: <bkpghr$4f1mp$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   + In article <3F6FDB53.DCB7FA5D@pacbell.net>, * 	Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>  I >> Like I said, you can't solve social problems with technical solutions. J >> You need strong, enforced social rules to control anti-social behavior.G >> Failure to obey needs to result in being cut off from the technology  >> entirely. > 7 > And how would you do that with no technical solution?   E By having a strong AUP and enforcing it.  Break the AUP, off the net. @ Period.  No excuses.  No second chances.  Right now, there is noC penalty for an ISP that harbors SPAMers.  If supporting anti-social D behavior could result in the complete loss of your business, more ofA them might actually care.  Shunning has worked quite well for the  Amish for more than a century.   > C > Technical solutions are like laws. They do not guarantee that the F > actions they protect against won't be done anyway. What they do is :H > 1) make it clear to the citizenry, what actions are/are not acceptableF > 2) prescribe appropriate punishments to those who ignore those rules  H No, technical solutions don't do that, rules do.  And rules are a socialH solution.  But thay have to have teeth behind them.  Technical solutionsE are when you try and make the computer automatically regulate things. G The SPAMers have proven that they are willing to devote whatever effort & is needed to circumvent these actions.   > 3 > Technical solutions can and should provide this.  J > Social rules aren't much good with those folks who don't give a rats ass( > about what you, or I, say about them.   G If an ISP is going to be put out of business for supporting SPAMers, it C is much more likely to refuse to support them and actually take the E necessary security measures the thwart them.  Right now, there are no A rules and no penalties, ergo, no social rules.  There are lots of E people trying to come up with technical solutions.  None of them have ! been successful up to this point.   H >                                       In the good old days most people= > prized their reputations and avoided shame. Today you get a F > multi-million dollar book deal for wrong doing. There seems to be noC > distinction between the famous and the infamous... but I digress.   G True, and thus the need for a social solution.  Anti-social behavior on I the INTERNET needs to result in actual penalties and not make people folk F heroes.   Most sensible people will admit that society can not surviveI under a system of total anarchy, why do so many people think "cyberspace"  is somehow different?    bill    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 08:47:24 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? 3 Message-ID: <2vxpdRYbKN7p@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <bkpghr$4f1mp$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:- > In article <3F6FDB53.DCB7FA5D@pacbell.net>, , > 	Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >>   >>   >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>> J >>> Like I said, you can't solve social problems with technical solutions.K >>> You need strong, enforced social rules to control anti-social behavior. H >>> Failure to obey needs to result in being cut off from the technology
 >>> entirely.  >>  8 >> And how would you do that with no technical solution? > G > By having a strong AUP and enforcing it.  Break the AUP, off the net. B > Period.  No excuses.  No second chances.  Right now, there is noE > penalty for an ISP that harbors SPAMers.  If supporting anti-social F > behavior could result in the complete loss of your business, more ofC > them might actually care.  Shunning has worked quite well for the   > Amish for more than a century. >   A 	Well of course it works for the Amish.  Lawyers aren't involved. ? 	Start doing what you are suggesting and lawsuits start flying. @ 	Serious money starts frittering about and folks get less brave.   >>  D >> Technical solutions are like laws. They do not guarantee that theG >> actions they protect against won't be done anyway. What they do is : I >> 1) make it clear to the citizenry, what actions are/are not acceptable G >> 2) prescribe appropriate punishments to those who ignore those rules  > J > No, technical solutions don't do that, rules do.  And rules are a social7 > solution.  But thay have to have teeth behind them.     A 	That's where law comes into play.  BUT if you can't apply law... G 	(cooperation would make sure things drag out, different jurisdictions, < 	we all remember recent cases of "censorship" that really is@ 	little more than effort to keep kids at libraries from cruising> 	"naughty" pages - if you can't get cooperation there, you canB 	see how swampy other things get.  So the answer would most likely 	be technical in nature.)    > Technical solutions G > are when you try and make the computer automatically regulate things. I > The SPAMers have proven that they are willing to devote whatever effort ( > is needed to circumvent these actions.  A 	That is because they can hide.  And forensically it is (mostly)   	impossible to track them down.    >>  4 >> Technical solutions can and should provide this. K >> Social rules aren't much good with those folks who don't give a rats ass ) >> about what you, or I, say about them.   > I > If an ISP is going to be put out of business for supporting SPAMers, it E > is much more likely to refuse to support them and actually take the G > necessary security measures the thwart them.  Right now, there are no 2 > rules and no penalties, ergo, no social rules.    @ 	Yes - it is called the Internet.  Perhaps a good solution wouldE 	be for all email to go through an independent country (Switzerland?) ? 	and scanned for viruses.  A massive "offshore" clearing house.  	Sort of kidding.    > There are lots of G > people trying to come up with technical solutions.  None of them have # > been successful up to this point.   = 	Right.  Probably won't be at all.  SMTP is critically broken 4 	as one of the originating mail contributors admits:  * http://news.com.com/2100-1038-5058610.html  L "I would suggest they just write a new protocol from the beginning," SuzanneO Sluizer, a co-author of SMTP's immediate predecessor and a visiting lecturer at 3 the University of New Mexico, said in an interview.   O "In my experience in computers--which at this point, is quite extensive--trying O to fix problems in the existing thing is almost always more difficult than just J sitting down and thinking about what you want and coming up with something new," she added.    C Sluizer co-authored the 1981 Mail Transport Protocol, SMTP's direct L predecessor, while she was a technical staffer at the University of SouthernJ California's Information Sciences Institute in Marina del Rey, Calif.--theM birthplace of such fundamental Internet protocols as the Transmission Control $ Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP).     > I >>                                       In the good old days most people > >> prized their reputations and avoided shame. Today you get aG >> multi-million dollar book deal for wrong doing. There seems to be no D >> distinction between the famous and the infamous... but I digress. > I > True, and thus the need for a social solution.  Anti-social behavior on K > the INTERNET needs to result in actual penalties and not make people folk H > heroes.   Most sensible people will admit that society can not surviveK > under a system of total anarchy, why do so many people think "cyberspace"  > is somehow different?  >   < 	Because it is.  Remember its roots.  Academia and Military.? 	One of those is an anarchists breeding ground that masquerades  	as "critical thinking."   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:56:34 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? 0 Message-ID: <00A26541.73318358@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <2vxpdRYbKN7p@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: i >In article <bkpghr$4f1mp$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: . >> In article <3F6FDB53.DCB7FA5D@pacbell.net>,- >> 	Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:  >>>  >>>  >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>  K >>>> Like I said, you can't solve social problems with technical solutions. L >>>> You need strong, enforced social rules to control anti-social behavior.I >>>> Failure to obey needs to result in being cut off from the technology  >>>> entirely. >>> 9 >>> And how would you do that with no technical solution?  >>  H >> By having a strong AUP and enforcing it.  Break the AUP, off the net.C >> Period.  No excuses.  No second chances.  Right now, there is no F >> penalty for an ISP that harbors SPAMers.  If supporting anti-socialG >> behavior could result in the complete loss of your business, more of D >> them might actually care.  Shunning has worked quite well for the! >> Amish for more than a century.  >>   > B >	Well of course it works for the Amish.  Lawyers aren't involved.@ >	Start doing what you are suggesting and lawsuits start flying.A >	Serious money starts frittering about and folks get less brave.   H The answer to that problem is several 100 years old.  Read Shakespeare's
 Henry VI.  ;)    --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 23 Sep 03 18:47:00 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? ) Message-ID: <KATSCWdRHB$g@elias.decus.ch>   Y In article <3f700c52$0$27588$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: 2 > Your French is getting better all the time, Paul > :-)  >    LOL.    > D. > (back) >  > Paul Sture wrote:  >  >> Merci beaucoup. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:19:33 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>  Subject: Alpha firmware updates = Message-ID: <9wZbb.3059$Bp7.28034108@news-text.cableinet.net>   0 A suggestion for the Alpha firmware update team.  J Please put the entire current and 'old systems archive' CDs on the web forJ download. A zip file or similar would be good. That way we could then burnI our own CDs and do firmware updates a lot more simply than having to drag E individual files from the web. Of course, it depends on having a high H bandwidth link to do this in a sensible manner. There might also be someI issues around how to make the resulting CD bootable on an Alpha. Maybe it K could be done as a CD image file suitable for use with CDRECORD, or perhaps  NERO?    --     Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk L Systems Archaeologist - Investigation & troubleshooting of older systems and	 networks.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:13:41 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) < Subject: Backhoes (was Re: Creating a wide area VMS Cluster)= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0309230813.7b9d0271@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F6F6458.DCDF20F4@istop.com>... M > Imagine a fleet of backhoes in manhattan, digging through a large number of $ > cables all at the same time... :-)  ; And that differs from the situation today in what way?  :-)   ( > Do backhoes have any legitimate uses ?  C Yes.  A tractor with a front-end loader and backhoe attachment is a ? useful tool.  I've used mine to clear trees for my driveway and C building site, level the ground for a storage barn, dig ditches for D water drainage, repair erosion damage, carry firewood around, and so= forth.  But I'm nowhere near any underground cables or pipes.   F Working with a backhoe can be satisfying and stress-relieving.  But my1 wife does tease me about my Tim Taylor Tonka Toy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:18:39 -0500 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: BEA WebLogic and VMS 1 Message-ID: <03092309183904@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   > Anyone out there running BEA WebLogic on VMS V7.2?  (or V7.3?)  G Looking for some blood and guts information on BEA WebLogic besides the  posted sales pitch.    TIA        J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:56:29 +0200h" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> Subject: BootCamp?4 Message-ID: <3f700ac2$0$27588$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Sue,  A Can you share with us how many registrations do you have for the s" November VMS bootcamp as of today?   Thanks,f   D. -- o- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurosa                     Tout VMS.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:55:38 GMTn" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: BootCamp?0 Message-ID: <00A26528.2C59F8A2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <3f700ac2$0$27588$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:  >Sue,b >aB >Can you share with us how many registrations do you have for the # >November VMS bootcamp as of today?  >s >Thanks,  @ If Sue responds, I'd like to know when the charges will be taken@ from my AmEx card.  I signed up a week ago and there has been no@ correspondence (electronic or otherwise) and my AmEx account hasA no record of a charge for the bootcamp.  I am awaiting a confirm-aA ation to book my lodging and air travel.  C'mon, let get with it.-   --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            O5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" s   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 07:06:46 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i Subject: Re: BootCamp?3 Message-ID: <BWxypJ9sISzW@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  U In article <00A26528.2C59F8A2@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:e  B > If Sue responds, I'd like to know when the charges will be takenB > from my AmEx card.  I signed up a week ago and there has been noB > correspondence (electronic or otherwise) and my AmEx account hasC > no record of a charge for the bootcamp.  I am awaiting a confirm-?C > ation to book my lodging and air travel.  C'mon, let get with it.?  C I tried to pay with American Express Private Payments, which cannot B be distinguished from a regular American Express card, except thatF the "card" number is only good for a single purchase (to avoid fraud).  F But those numbers "expire" the same month they are issued, and HP toldD me they could not accept a credit card expiring in September because4 they will not charge until the end of the Symposium.  G That seems quite fair to me, even though my original plan did not work.t  J I ended up sending email to Sue to get confirmation that I was registered,L since the institutional confirmation mechanism is incompatible with VMSmail.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:46:48 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)- Subject: Re: BootCamp?< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0309230846.7e74112@posting.google.com>  ^ Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<3f700ac2$0$27588$626a54ce@news.free.fr>...C > Can you share with us how many registrations do you have for the  $ > November VMS bootcamp as of today?  E Sue sent out a message to the VMS SIG on Sept. 12 indicating that thec? Bootcamp was already 50% booked at that point, so anyone who isi: planning to attend would be well advised to sign up soon. & http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/bootcamp/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:58:40 +0200t( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> Subject: Re: BootCamp?9 Message-ID: <bkpu7e$4dsb8$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>n  1 "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> schreef in berichty. news:3f700ac2$0$27588$626a54ce@news.free.fr... > Sue, > B > Can you share with us how many registrations do you have for the$ > November VMS bootcamp as of today? >uD Sue is on her way to the Netherlands for a dutch VMS symposium, nextL Thursday and Friday. Sue is scheduled for a presentation on Thursday moring,+ which gives me the opportunity to meet her!-   Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 03:17:28 -0700$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho), Subject: Re: Booting hobbyist CD on PWS433au= Message-ID: <d0141774.0309230217.1b946f9f@posting.google.com>4  ? Nope, this setting doesn't exist on the PWS, but thanks anyway.   ~ "Winfried Bergmann" <winfried.bergmannNosPAM@empuron.de> wrote in message news:<bkc835$1uae$1@ID-170759.news.uni-berlin.de>...L > I have a RRD42 running in my DEC3000 and also had problems at first. But IL > got better results after increasing "SCSI_RESET" from 4 to 6 in SRM. AfterN > that, I was able to install VMS from the Montager CD but still have problemsM > with some burned CDs (get some media errors on some CDs, but not for all!).c >  > 9 > "issinoho" <issinoho@slayme.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragr9 > news:d0141774.0309151228.1a624059@posting.google.com...oE > > My friend, you are a genius! It was indeed the RRD42 misbehaving.oG > > I swapped in a generic NEC SCSI CDROM and. although I was initiallyeB > > assaulted with moans about 512 byte block size being wrong, it > > installed nevertheless.r > > D > > Fantastic! A *very* big thanks to all who took the time to help. > >T= > > al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb) wrote in message < >  news:<d5ce4b06.0309150633.6d68189b@posting.google.com>...- > > > Random thoughts on your CD-ROM problem:l > > > 9 > > > It's probably not a termination issue; you wouldn'th0 > > > get as far as you did in the boot process. > > >a< > > > I suspect that the RRD42 just might be too old to work: > > > right on your system;  You can't assume that it will> > > > work with your PW433 just because it worked fine on your > > > VAXstation.m > > >n> > > > I'm fairly certain that RRD42s have been known to have a? > > > hard time reading "burned" CDs, and the Alpha Hobbyist CDe > > > is probably exactly that.a > > >b8 > > > It reads just enough to boot, but when it tries to, > > > read more off of the CD-ROM, it fails. > > >g, > > > What other SCSI devices are you using?- > > > (Do a SHOW DEV D at the console prompt)  > > >i= > > > I've personally used wide and narrow on the same chain,r > > >u@ > > > I understand that Ultra and narrow are somewhat less happy& > > > together, your mileage may vary. > > >wB > > > As you suggested, I'd try disconnecting everything else from@ > > > the SCSI controller and using a 50-pin cable to connect to > > > the RRD42. > > >l, > > > Try booting then and see what happens. > > > 
 > > > HTH, > > >  > > > WWWebb > > >g > > > 5 > > > Issinoho <issinoho@slayme.com> wrote in messagey4 >  news:<1063616605.53372.0@despina.uk.clara.net>... > > > > Other thoughts...g > > > >oF > > > > The card has a 50pin connector as well as the used 68pin, if I >  connected; > > > > the CD directly to it would that make a difference?l > > > > ! > > > > I also found the KZPBA-CY> > > > >aN > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2753611776&category=3996 > 9>M > > > > on ebay however it does not ship to the UK. If indeed this card wouldtF > > > > solve my problems would anyone over the pond be kind enough to >  purchaseiB > > > > and ship it for me. The item has a $15 'Buy it now' price. > > > >h > > > >i > > > > Tom Linden wrote:u > > > >g? > > > > > Try googling a bit I just did and found the followings	 > > > > >t	 > > > > >wN > > > > >>I've tried to install 5.1A on a AS2100 with a KZPBA-CX (UW-SE SCSI), >  butK > > > > >>even if SRM sees the disks, the OS doesn't, so the install fails.v
 > > > > >>> > > > > >>KZPBA-CA is supported, and the specs are identical..	 > > > > >bM > > > > > it really is the same device. KZPBA-CA is the selling code, -CX theh >  oneI > > > > > that field services uses. This has been confirmed by a local HPdN > > > > > maintenance man. The reason why the install fails is probably due to >  old> > > > > > firmware on the card, or SCSI-terminations (sigh..). > > > > > t 	 > > > > >t	 > > > > >iJ > > > > > You will have to find someone who knows more about it than I.  I >  would > > > > > googleN > > > > > on that part number.  I know I had to remove the resistors to run on >  a > > > > > shared* > > > > > scsi bus.  sorry can't help more	 > > > > >o	 > > > > >i$ > > > > >>-----Original Message-----5 > > > > >>From: Issinoho [mailto:issinoho@slayme.com]v2 > > > > >>Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 5:37 PM# > > > > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn6 > > > > >>Subject: Re: Booting hobbyist CD on PWS433au
 > > > > >>
 > > > > >>L > > > > >>Bingo! sounds good. But I'm not sure what you're advising. I think >  we'veN > > > > >>established that it's not an 'au' system; rather an 'a' and there is >  nos# > > > > >>on-board SCSI controller.eM > > > > >>What do I do with the resistors? Can you explain in layman's terms,s
 >  please.N > > > > >>What's really bugging me is why I'm having to fight like hell to get >  VMSK > > > > >>on this box. What's the fundamental issues here? Is there a basic K > > > > >>hardware incompatiblity which means I'm banging my head against an >  wall?
 > > > > >>4 > > > > >>All help and input greatfully appreciated.
 > > > > >> > > > > >>Tom Linden wrote:t
 > > > > >>& > > > > >>>>-----Original Message-----9 > > > > >>>>From: John Travell [mailto:john@jomatech.com]n4 > > > > >>>>Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 2:20 PM% > > > > >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp8 > > > > >>>>Subject: Re: Booting hobbyist CD on PWS433au > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>: > > > > >>>>"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message? > > > > >>>>news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEJAHPAA.tom@kednos.com...o > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>J > > > > >>>>>Try copying CD to a drive using dd and then booting from that >  drive
 > > > > >>>>>e
 > > > > >>>>> 
 > > > > >>>>> ( > > > > >>>>>>-----Original Message-----9 > > > > >>>>>>From: issinoho [mailto:issinoho@slayme.com]o9 > > > > >>>>>>Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 12:59 AMi' > > > > >>>>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt6 > > > > >>>>>>Subject: Booting hobbyist CD on PWS433au > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>M > > > > >>>>>>Having finally got my PWS433au up and running, I've been tryingx >  toe? > > > > >>>>>>boot the Alpha hobbyist CD with thus far no luck. J > > > > >>>>>>I pulled the ATAPI CDROM from the box and installed an RRD42
 >  which IN > > > > >>>>>>know is OK as it's been doing its stuff happily in my VAXstation >  for aI > > > > >>>>>>while now. The SCSI card is a DEC (Qlogic) KZPBA-CX and thec
 >  console! > > > > >>>>>>firmware is V7.2-1. N > > > > >>>>>>When I do a 'boot dka400' I get the usual 'jumping to bootstrap' >  stuffK > > > > >>>>>>then a bit of a delay, then the 'OpenVMS 7.2' banner appears,f
 >  another > > > > >>>>>>delay, then... > > > > >>>>>>8 > > > > >>>>>>'failed to send read to dka400.4.0.1010.0'8 > > > > >>>>>>'error loading IO_ROUTINES.EXE, status=54' > > > > >>>>>>L > > > > >>>>>>Anyone know what is going on? I've tried booting an old OSF CD	 >  and itnD > > > > >>>>>>dies in a similar fashion. I've triple checked my SCSI >  connectors and 1 > > > > >>>>>>terminations and it all looks good.  > > > > >>>>>>( > > > > >>>>>>Any help much appreciated. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>: > > > > >>>>Did nobody think of checking the status code ? > > > > >>>>$ exit %x54A5 > > > > >>>>%SYSTEM-F-CTRLERR, fatal controller error  > > > > >>>  > > > > >>>lI > > > > >>>Bingo!  The KZPBA-CX is the differntial SCSI controller.  Nearr
 > > > > >> > > > > >>the external
 > > > > >>I > > > > >>>connector there should be a bank of 8 (yellow) resistor packs.m >  These areM > > > > >>>pulled when deployed on a share SCSI bus.  Not sure how to use the  >  boardJ > > > > >>>otherwise.  Maybe the resistors have to be in.  The KZPBA-CY is
 > > > > >> > > > > >>what you may
 > > > > >>J > > > > >>>want.  Another thought, does the riser board have a 68 pin SCSI
 > > > > >> > > > > >>connector?
 > > > > >>L > > > > >>>600au had an onboard controller, in which case pul the one on the
 >  PCI bus > > > > >>>and use that one. > > > > >>>  > > > > >>>>N > > > > >>>>This suggests either that the SCSI controller is faulty, or is not: > > > > >>>>configured correctly, or not supported by VMS.* > > > > >>>>What does the console command: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>>>>show device > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>return ? Alson > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>>>>show config > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>-- > > > > >>>>John Travell. > > > > >>>>Independent VMS crashdump analyst.+ > > > > >>>>john- at - jomatech - dot - com, > > > > >>>>+44-(0)23-92552229$ > > > > >>>>http://www.jomatech.com/ > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>---o2 > > > > >>>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.F > > > > >>>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).M > > > > >>>>Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003  > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>--- 2 > > > > >>>>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.F > > > > >>>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).L > > > > >>>>Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003 > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>  > > > > >>>---1 > > > > >>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.iE > > > > >>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).cK > > > > >>>Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003  > > > > >>>i
 > > > > >>
 > > > > >>---s0 > > > > >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.D > > > > >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).J > > > > >>Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003
 > > > > >>	 > > > > > 
 > > > > > ---r0 > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.D > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).J > > > > > Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003	 > > > > >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:14:19 GMT-2 From: "Ken Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com> Subject: dcl.OpenVMS.org; Message-ID: <vOWbb.11214$vq1.6221@twister.southeast.rr.com>t  & Anyone finding dcl.OpenVMS.org useful?  G The site needs more submissions.  If you get a chance please post a few ' procedures to share with the community.u  ( Any suggestions or comments are welcome.   -- Kenneth Farmer  <><l SpyderByte.com    EnterpriseUnix.org  |  Tru64.org OpenVMS.org  |  dcl.OpenVMS.orga$ EnterpriseLinux.org  |  LinuxHPC.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:05:45 GMTC- From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: dcl.OpenVMS.org1 Message-ID: <djZbb.5412$M7.2009@news.cpqcorp.net>h   Hellou  = "Ken Farmer" <KFarmer@NOSPAM.SpyderByte.com> wrote in message-5 news:vOWbb.11214$vq1.6221@twister.southeast.rr.com...n( > Anyone finding dcl.OpenVMS.org useful?$ Yes, and I was unaware of this site.   >:I > The site needs more submissions.  If you get a chance please post a few ) > procedures to share with the community.o/ I have submitted an old procedure, test_socket.eI We were exchanging files with a batch night job with an Ibm using XCOM IPo
 (from CA).I Written when I got tired of the Ibm guys saying "the file transfer failedhG because the Vms node was unreachable", when they had forgotten to start  the XCOM after a reboot...L This procedure allowed me to say "Xcom was unavailable on the Ibm from 03:00 to 08:35 this morning"...e   Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:32:22 -0400d/ From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net>f Subject: digital basicsa? Message-ID: <PBEDIAGOKEDCKCLPJKAFIEGPCBAA.hvanderw@comcast.net>   L Does anyone know what happened to this company??   Used to be a DEC resellerG in Minnesota. Also sold brand "X" drives and raid boxes.  I have one ofo9 their raid boxes and am trying to find out more about it.u   TIA"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:38:44 -0500i( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)) Subject: FTP shutdown/startup on VMS V7.2 1 Message-ID: <03092312384469@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   I Is it possible to shutdown and startup FTP without having to shutdown andl startup TCPIP services?    TCP/IP V5.0A - ECO 3 VMS V7.2  < I know it can be done with V5.1 - anyone have a work around?       J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*nn VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:35:35 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>* Subject: Re: License requirements for ES478 Message-ID: <g1q0nv0g7c14d38df1ido512hc3dna90rg@4ax.com>  D On 22 Sep 2003 08:02:44 -0700, gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen) wrote:  E >Can someone tell me how many license units are needed by an ES47 forpF >license types A, H, and I? I have heard (unauthoritatively) that they3 >are the same values as for the 4100-class systems.   % I found a chart at the following URL:l  0 	http://licensing.hp.com/swl/view.slm?page=alphaI ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comoI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)uI -------------------------------------------------------------------------u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:29:25 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>l+ Subject: Re: More on Microsoft, Sun and SCO 0 Message-ID: <bkpebf$h7k$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  9 Ever heard of one vendor licensing anothers technology ??   8 Ohh dear another conspiracy theory from HPQ engineering.  ; Stick to your day job Keith what ever it may be because youa' are pretty bad at your current calling.h   Regards  Andrew Harrisont     Keith Parris wrote:fH > A recent 10-Q filing sheds some interesting light on funding of SCO byJ > Microsoft and Sun.  http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1102542/0001=  10465903020700/a03-3388_110q.htm >=20E > "During the three months ended July 31, 2003, Microsoft CorporationhG > ("Microsoft") accounted for approximately 25 percent of total revenuesE > and Sun Microsystems, Inc. (=91Sun") accounted for approximately 12h > percent of total revenue." >=20E > Total revenue for this 3-month period was $20.055 million, so Sun'svB > contribution for the 3 months ending July 31 would be about $2.4. > million, and Microsoft's about $5.0 million. >=20F > "During the nine months ended July 31, 2003, Microsoft accounted forA > approximately 16 percent of total revenue and Sun accounted forH. > approximately 12 percent, of total revenue." >=20E > Total revenue for this 9-month period was $54.964 million, so Sun'smB > contribution for the 9 months ending July 31 would be about $6.6. > million, and Microsoft's about $8.8 million. >=20C > Sun contributed 12% for the last 3 months, and 12% for the last 9nC > months.  One wonders if that was 12% every quarter for 3 quartersjE > (meaning Sun started contributing earlier than was admitted before)fA > or, more likely, that Sun instead contributed a full 24% of SCO ( > revenues for the 1st 3 months of 2003. >=20E > SCO expects more revenue from Microsoft as well: "On July 31, 2003,hH > Microsoft exercised an option to acquire expanded licensing rights.=20E > Upon delivery, we expect to recognize additional revenue related to  > this option."d >=20H > And although the 10-Q doesn't name Sun, it notes the 210K option grantF > reported in other news stories to have been given to Sun, as well asB > an additional new 12,500-share grant in the most-recent quarter: >=20H > "During the quarter ended April 30, 2003, the Company issued a warrantF > to a SCOsource licensee.  The warrant allows the licensee to acquireF > 210,000 shares of the Company's common stock at an exercise price ofE > $1.83 per share for a term of five years from the date of grant.=20fF > Because the warrant was issued for no consideration to the SCOsourceE > licensee, the Company has recorded the fair value of the warrant oflH > $500,000, as determined using the Black-Scholes option-pricing model." > ...cF > "During the quarter ended July 31, 2003, the Company issued a secondF > warrant to the above mentioned SCOsource licensee in connection withB > payment of amounts owed to the Company under the initial licenseF > agreement.  The warrant allows the licensee to acquire 12,500 sharesG > of the Company's common stock at an exercise price of $1.83 per shareeG > for a term of five years from the date of the agreement.  Because thesH > warrant was issued in connection with the advance payment, the CompanyG > has recorded the fair value of the warrant of $150,000, as determinedw0 > using the Black-Scholes option-pricing model." >=20G > So Sun not only effectively helped bankroll the IBM suit, SCO appearsnB > to be paying Sun back with low-strike-price stock option grants.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:30:56 +0000 (UTC)i, From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)& Subject: non-interactive audio capture. Message-ID: <bkq00g$fh5$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  F Is there a tool which will capture audio on OpenVMS/Alpha without userG interaction?  I want to record my favorite radio program every day, and G convert to MP3, probably in 15-minute chunks.  There are a few programs I which will do the MP3 part but I'm having trouble finding anything except  for DECSOUND which will record.r  H Can I do full-duplex sound, i.e. play one thing while recording another?C (DECSOUND seems to require an exclusive lock on the output device.)   E My hardware is a PWS 500au with built-in sound, but I'd spring for anp! Ensoniq card if it would do more.e  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgh> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 03:17:45 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)S Subject: Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu  warse= Message-ID: <7500353b.0309230217.53f3eb01@posting.google.com>e  P > You're forgetting that HP-UX customers are also forced to migrate to IA64, andP > that probably represents a far greater number of active/alive systems comparedO > to VMS where a large proprotion of those 400k systems is either disconnected,e: > or running without any changes and any plans to upgrade. > D Well, that option has existed for so long time now (with HP-UX 11i),D that it looks that everyone that wanted to switch, have already doneF it. Afaik there is no EOL for PA-RISC, so this concerns VMS only where% users have no other way to turn to :)s   Ml   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:55:07 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>vS Subject: Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu  wars G Message-ID: <LoXbb.99655$DZ.45799@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>u   JF Mezei wrote:A >oG > Now, if Intel really wanted to take the world by storm, it would haverD > the ex Digital Alpha engineers to covertly restart Alpha, and whenB > ready with what would be a revamped EV8, Intel can then announce2 > Alpha chips scalable from laptop to data centre.  L They always have been...it's just that the cooling requirements for a laptop Alpha are a bit daunting.s  J Now if they advertised an Alpha laptop as a computerized coffee cup warmer maybe they'd get somewhere. ;-)a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:23:02 GMTh" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGS Subject: Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu  warsP0 Message-ID: <00A2653C.C3AEB6F7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <LoXbb.99655$DZ.45799@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:f >JF Mezei wrote: >>H >> Now, if Intel really wanted to take the world by storm, it would haveE >> the ex Digital Alpha engineers to covertly restart Alpha, and when C >> ready with what would be a revamped EV8, Intel can then announcet3 >> Alpha chips scalable from laptop to data centre.a >oM >They always have been...it's just that the cooling requirements for a laptopa >Alpha are a bit daunting. > K >Now if they advertised an Alpha laptop as a computerized coffee cup warmer   >maybe they'd get somewhere. ;-)  J ...and with the power requirements and dissipation of IPF???  A coffee cup plasma generator perhaps?c   --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            h5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 07:34:47 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)fS Subject: Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu  warsr= Message-ID: <734da31c.0309230634.45a7f686@posting.google.com>t  s mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) wrote in message news:<7500353b.0309230217.53f3eb01@posting.google.com>...rR > > You're forgetting that HP-UX customers are also forced to migrate to IA64, andR > > that probably represents a far greater number of active/alive systems comparedQ > > to VMS where a large proprotion of those 400k systems is either disconnected,e< > > or running without any changes and any plans to upgrade. > > F > Well, that option has existed for so long time now (with HP-UX 11i),F > that it looks that everyone that wanted to switch, have already doneH > it. Afaik there is no EOL for PA-RISC, so this concerns VMS only where' > users have no other way to turn to :)   B PA-RISC is just as EOL as Alpha (if you don't know that, then yourD credibility on these issues seem scarce). The major switch on all ofA HP's PA-RISC and Alpha platforms to Itanium will most likely take D place in 2005-2008. Before the Madison release PA-RISC and Alpha wasF the first choice, this will change gradually and I guess Montecito andF Tanglewood will be switch CPU's. Those who buy Itaniums today buy them( for new systems, not to replace systems.   /David   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2003 23:01:04 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon)N Subject: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu wars< Message-ID: <7500353b.0309222201.c7c590d@posting.google.com>  ; Just in May I posted the mail to you creating some fruitfulmB discussion. The last note I got was something in the lines that we@ will see :) and now we see, although I'd say even if it would beE written in big, bold letters on the sky, not all would be able to seer :)  @ Big news today is that AMD64 is released. Pricing is available -@ Athlon 64 3200+ $439.00 and Athlon 64 FX-51 $799.00. Not bad. OfC course the next thing I hear is that it wont sell, but that's to beiA seen too - at least mobo makers are exited and that cant be a badnA sign. AMD Opteron has been reported to sell on around +5000 unitse since its debut in April.r  E On the meanwhile, Itanium has had its last quarterly sales figures of E +3100 units from which HP took majority, others selling just total of B 79 systems. Intel is obviously relying on VMS user base (figure ofC 400.000 given by HP) on the success of Itanium, because if even 10%lC would convert, it would increase the sales more than ten-fold. Theyo; need to fund Dual-core Itanium - Montecito with its billioni transistors!  ? Of course one might ask what actually is a vms license - havingeE licenses does not tell which kind of computer do they run on or is it.> actively used. I've seen most of Vaxes and Alphas lying on theF computer rooms, doing nothing or just experiments as other capacity isE on production use. Charon-Vax license figures are not released eithereF so we dont know if the majority of vms licenses is actually already onF emulation because charon-vax still needs vms license, so the potentialF movers to itanium could be far less than 400.000. Of course, one could move off from ch-v also :)  C HP has been able to get support for vms from oem's, although not to F the extent alpha had. This is natural as the software is often createdF for a platform and then kept alive and keeping it alive when customersD are paying for it is much cheaper than creating new software. In theD process of new ports, old products that are no longer sales hits areC dropped and only the ones that sell on current market are ported toD new.  F However, I have not seen any new products and I'd call that a bad signC - developers are obviously taking the stance of wait-and-see beforesB risking and that is creating hen and egg situation where market isE waiting for products developed and product developers are waiting forlD market. The longer the the situation is held, the more vms user base- erodes and goers are not likely to come back.   D According IBM, itanium is touch to sell as it is expensive and slow.E Does this mean that VMS is fast and overrides these restrictions. NowiF that iVMS is online and people can access it, how is the performance ?B Yes, I know, its debug code, not finished etc other reasons so youF cant expect it to work as fast as the current models - but otoh, if itC would be phenomenical, it would create some news here, wouldnt it ?>  D Aside of of vms, it is of course interesting to see whether A64 willD take world by the storm. Just a while ago Intel infamously announcedD that no-one will need more than 32 bits for many years - this soundsE like bill gates telling that no-one will ever need more than 640kb ofbC memory or that internet is just a whim or ibm telling that everyonea@ will take microchannel because its ibm that makes the sales, not
 common hw.  @ I indeed believe that people will buy 64 bits if it is cheap and@ common because its sounds cooler than 32 bits and not basing theC purchases on technical needs. Besides, it overcomes the problems on A tech calculations and more importantly - games. After all, it was > games market that raised Windows to its status, not technoloy.  B Of course if AMD64 will come the hit on x86 world and Itanium willC erode on the market,  will HP reconsider the market positioning and E re-port to AMD64 ? It would loose a face, but if no-one wants itaniumeF boxes, then it has to face the consequences. If intel would officiallyF drop the processor, it would then be easiest for HP to blame them, butA I doubt intel would do that because it would then face some nasty B legal issues. So HP would either need to keep going on the path of? doom or to revert to new path and both are bad choices for themeF because they have poured ernomous amounts of money on this. Otoh, doomE will not lead anywhere and would be expenseive, while reverting wouldw only be expensive.  A So what would HP do ? It could re-port to AMD64, return to alpha,o@ start supporting charon-vax or cut the product line. My guess isC charon-vax or a simulator like it because re-port would only extendoD more funding with longer wait before benefits, return to alpha wouldB be impossible as engineers are re-located to intel and cutting the8 product line would cause legal problems from customerss.  A And again, lets see what happends and return to subject after fewt	 months :)l   Mt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:31:46 -0400a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>Y Subject: Re: Obi Van VMS, you are our only hope, says princess Itanium on cpu wars warswa ) Message-ID: <3F6FE8A6.902CA6D5@istop.com>7   mist dragon wrote:D > 79 systems. Intel is obviously relying on VMS user base (figure ofE > 400.000 given by HP) on the success of Itanium, because if even 10%a@ > would convert, it would increase the sales more than ten-fold.  N You're forgetting that HP-UX customers are also forced to migrate to IA64, andN that probably represents a far greater number of active/alive systems comparedM to VMS where a large proprotion of those 400k systems is either disconnected, 8 or running without any changes and any plans to upgrade.    G Nevertheless, it is, and has long been apparant that IA64 would be HP'sr/ proprietary chip developped and built by Intel.r  D > Of course if AMD64 will come the hit on x86 world and Itanium willE > erode on the market,  will HP reconsider the market positioning anda > re-port to AMD64 ?  M When HP abandons IA64, it will be to go to Intel's 64 bit 8086. It is a givennH that Intel needs to develop a 64 bit 8086 before it can even think about abandonning the IA64 loser.l  L Now, if Intel really wanted to take the world by storm, it would have the exK Digital Alpha engineers to covertly restart Alpha, and when ready with whattJ would be a revamped EV8, Intel can then announce Alpha chips scalable from laptop to data centre. e  L That would leave AMD in the dust. If/when intel releases its 64 bit 8086, it leaves AMD in the race.m  K On the other hand, having multiple suppliers of an architecture helps keeps8J the prices low. So a 64 bit 8086 has greater chance of market penetration,: especially if existing 32 bit 8086 software can run on it.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2003 23:57:08 -0700A From: dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dieter__Ro=DFbach?=) 2 Subject: Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer= Message-ID: <e1d40caf.0309222257.565e2420@posting.google.com>   ? I converted all disks, including the system disks, on all of my B systems to ODS-5 with hard links, when upgrading to VMS 7.3-1 some month ago, no problems so far.; I run APACHE (CSWS), TOMCAT, PATHWORKS or Samba, the latesta; Rdb-Version, Mysql und Oracle 9.x on these systems. It is am( developing/light production environment.  @ In general I use to test every new feature of VMS at once (since% Version 2.2), I'm just to curious ...S   Dieter   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:44:01 -0400i. From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>2 Subject: Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer. Message-ID: <PeXbb.37$s8.1225@news.on.tac.net>   what to hard links do ?   : "Dieter Robach" <dieter.rossbach@gmx.de> wrote in message7 news:e1d40caf.0309222257.565e2420@posting.google.com...kA > I converted all disks, including the system disks, on all of myiD > systems to ODS-5 with hard links, when upgrading to VMS 7.3-1 some  > month ago, no problems so far.= > I run APACHE (CSWS), TOMCAT, PATHWORKS or Samba, the latesto= > Rdb-Version, Mysql und Oracle 9.x on these systems. It is a * > developing/light production environment. >,B > In general I use to test every new feature of VMS at once (since' > Version 2.2), I'm just to curious ...  >r > Dieter   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:32:26 -0600c6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam>2 Subject: Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer/ Message-ID: <LXXbb.5$GY2.20728@news.uswest.net>.  J No hard links.  Unix geeks love hard links, but they are a foreign concept4 to VMS and Windows, which is what I have to support.   Mike.E  9 "Ken Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com> wrote in messagea# news:3F6F7883.9FC60F18@intel.com...  > "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > >mD > > We run ODS-5 on all our disks, including system disks.  You haveB > > to convert the system disk from the console or during a VMS OS > > upgrade, however.  >hC >     Quick question: did you enable hard links on the system disk?t > > >     Reason I ask is that I went ahead and bit the bullet and? > let the VMS 7.3-1 installation procedure make my hobbiest VMSoA > system disk ODS-5.  But I was, ahem, hesitant to go all the way3? > and allow hard inks to be enabled since I could find precioust@ > little documentation telling me what impact this would have on0 > the system root structure and VMS$COMMON, etc. >s >     Comments?  >s > -Ken > --8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... >u > Ken Fairfieldr# > D1C Automation VMS System Supportb$ > who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield > where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:48:21 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)w2 Subject: Re: ODS-5 or not ODS-5 What is the answer0 Message-ID: <FaYbb.5406$KU7.91@news.cpqcorp.net>  / In article <PeXbb.37$s8.1225@news.on.tac.net>, t- "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca asks:j   >what to hard links do ?  @ "Hard Links" are essentailly the same as "Aliases" for file and = directory names.  The major difference has to do with DELETE:a  ? Will aliases if you DELETE a file the file is gone; attempts tor1 reference it by one of its other names will fail.o  ; With hard links, if you delete a file that has other names,rA the delete operates similarly to a SET FILE /REMOVE command; the  G file remains and can still be referenced by any of its remaining names. > The file is only truely gone when you delete all of its names.  C See the OpenVMS Alpha Version V7.3-1 New Features and Documentation: Overview for more information.  F Hard links can be established by the /VOLUME_CHARACTERISTICS qualifierB on the ININTIALIZE command.   They can be turned on and off by the< /VOLUME_CHARACTERISTICS qualifier on the SET VOLUME command.  @ N.B. Changing Hard Links with SET VOLUME can take a long time --D up to an hour or more depending on the device type and the directory
 structure.   -- sJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:18:23 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: OpenVMS v8.0 (IPF),0 Message-ID: <00A2652B.5A9BF5E7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  J Apparently one can purchase a CD of this?  God forbid it be easily located' on the HP web site if this is the case.t  J If anyone has a copy, does it have documentation in readable format?  Like PS?  e   --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            b5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 1   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 07:08:10 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t Subject: Re: OpenVMS v8.0 (IPF)e3 Message-ID: <u7ZqVfagBBTT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A2652B.5A9BF5E7@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:u+ > Apparently one can purchase a CD of this?o  I No, that would be 8.1.  As of 10 months about it was going to be possible & for 8.0, but that changed (obviously).  I Considering the comments here about Unwind-Goto, that is probably for thei best.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:56:16 +0200t From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>4 Subject: Re: Oracle 8.1.7.4 on VMS 7.2-2 Performance2 Message-ID: <bkoniu$8uu$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Vinit Adya wrote:lD > We have noticed that a query like "select * from dual;" takes muchC > longer on OpenVMS than on Windows based PC. (Did the opetation 1MmG > times and compared the results...) It takes twice as long and it usessA > 100% of one on the cpu on alpha. on intel it is 3 times faster.h > ? > Any ideas what might be wrong (with VMS or this test itself?)R > 
 > Regards, > VinitoO Older versions of Oracle were better adapted to run on VMS, but Oracle removed g. much of the VMS specific speed improving code.  M Having said that, please take a look at the mailbox size Oracle is using and t maybe at the biolim settings.   Q Oracle uses mailboxes to transfer data to and from user programs to the database  Q engine. Using big mailboxes will improve the speed quite a bit. For that purpose fP there are some special Oracle logicals you can set, you can find them somewhere = in the Oracle VMS manuals (I don't have them here right now).e  $ Increasing the BIOLIM may also help.  N What kind of disk subsystem are you using ? Todays PCs can be quite fast with L just IDE disks. The conventional Qlogic SCSI controllers of a Alpha are not  really that fast..   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:22:36 GMTj& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>/ Subject: Re: OT: Verisign's contract with ICANN 1 Message-ID: <wj%bb.5428$qp.4780@news.cpqcorp.net>b  + JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:SE > Just skimming though it, I found plenty of areas where ICANN, it itpD > had gonads, could have pounced on Verisign the day they put in the7 > redirection of non existant sites on a verisign site.h  D Is there an entity waiting in the wings that could take-over running, the .com and .net registries in short-order?  
 rick jones -- lG oxymoron n, commuter in a gas-guzzling luxury SUV with an American flagSF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:54:25 GMTt% From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net>  Subject: Re: PCI Device Access3 Message-ID: <slrnbmv2vt.c66.rivie@Stench.no.domain>   H In article <xmLbb.64890$NM1.8457@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Joe  Headrick wrote:  [[[ snip ]]] > Anyway, I need > to be3K > able to turn off the horiz and vert sync on a couple of types of graphicsg > cards, andH > figured writing the IO registers would be the best bet (no source, and > apparently no' > DPMI in 6.2-1H3).  [[[ snip ]]]N >   If anyone has a IO example that they can share... It would be appreciated.  F What, precisely, do you mean? I don't have IO examples to share, but I> have written several PCI device drivers and done some register/ mutilation from user-level code (ahhh, PFNMAP).t  H If you are talking about doing it from a device driver, there are kernelH services to help; IOC$READ_IO and IOC$WRITE_IO being, probably, the most	 relevant.   E If you're talking about doing it from user-level code, you'll need toiC know A LOT about the system you're trying to use. You'll be arguingt> with the CPU to PCI bridge. I've done code dealing with APECS,E CIA/PYXIS, and TSUNAMI/TYPHOON, but even then I had to have help fromd? the device driver (and in the case of TSUNAMI/TYPHOON make some. simplifying assumptions).R -- o
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net <input type crash>   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 07:25:23 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org4 Subject: Re: Possible e-mail scam allegedly from HP.3 Message-ID: <mcAesV9Pf3Q+@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  V In article <3F6F7220.F3EB0A1A@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:K >> Received: by xsgbrg2.sgp.hp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59)n2 >>  id <TJYQYDPP>; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:10:06 +0800 > F > 5.5.2656.59 is not a valid IP address to begin with. (2656 is a deadY > giveaway). Secondly, 5.5.*.* is not an assigned IP address/network and is not routable.>  F It's not supposed to be an IP address.  It's a software version numberD for the Internet Mail Service software -- the SMTP gateway component of Microsoft Exchange.  B That Received: header is entirely plausible.  Of course, that does> not mean that it wasn't forged.  If you're going to forge mail/ headers, making them plausible is a nice touch.S  ? Here's a header from an e-mail from my sister.  This particular>@ one was inserted by the Exchange IMS as it gatewayed the message from Exchange into SMTP.  H Received: by EXCHANGE6.csmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59)/ 	id <J16P6L7B>; Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:30:11 -0700>   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 06:09:45 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>EM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?e+ Message-ID: <3F6FE435.177A5C96@pacbell.net>    Mike Bartman wrote:i > H > On 22 Sep 2003 21:41:57 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > wrote: > g > >In article <bkoakf$42ov5$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:>7 > >> In article <ZuednaI5fOd9O_KiXTWJiw@metrocast.net>,o6 > >>      "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >>>fO > >>> I'd vote for that $.01 per email fee that was proposed:  I think it wouldCO > >>> stop most spammers in their tracks, at least to the degree of making them R > >>> select for people who at least *might* be interested in their product rather > >>> than just spam the world.e > >>K > >> And how is it proposed to do this?  How do you know how many emails my> > >> machine sends out?s > >s@ > >Receiving ISPs charge the backbone for each message received.B > >Backbones charge each other (and sending ISPs) for each message > >received. > @ > How do any of these know that a given packet is part of a mail> > message?  The port number used?  What about those who run onB > non-standard ports, or over other protocols for part of the trip > (web-mail for instance)?  E Yes. Charge by headers directed to port 25. Others simply wouldn't berD part of the solution and could continue to use any port they wished.   > $ > What if the sender isn't an ISP?  H The sender doesn't have to be an ISP. But the ISP that gave provided youE with your IP address would be responsible for assesing those charges.   " > I run my own mailserver...my ISPD > isn't involved except in moving packets at the TCP/IP level.  Am I > supposed to bill myself?  G You mean you don't point to any mail, or default, gateway IP?? How does D your mail know where the next hop is? I run my own server too, but IE have to declare at least the address of my router and my router has at) default gateway address, which is my ISP.    > D > What will be your reaction when you find that your home system gotA > infected by a virus that sent a commercial e-mail to 27 milliongH > addresses while you were at the beach over the weekend?  Will you just. > pay the $270,000.00 bill your ISP sends you? >   H Of course you would have simple safegards, like decaring a maximum numer8 of outbound emails per day without further confirmation.  A > There may be a solution to the spam problem, but that isn't it./ >   # I wouldn't be so sure. Money talks..   -- i   Have VMS, Will Travels Wire paladin, San Francisco>   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Sep 2003 08:25:45 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann).M Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ? 0 Message-ID: <bkp029$40o$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  _ In article <ZuednaI5fOd9O_KiXTWJiw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:tJ >I'd vote for that $.01 per email fee that was proposed:  I think it wouldJ >stop most spammers in their tracks, at least to the degree of making themM >select for people who at least *might* be interested in their product ratherdJ >than just spam the world.  And it would give infected sites a far greater, >incentive to clean themselves up *quickly*.  L I had a similar idea: force only the few largest network companies in EuropeH to pay a minimal fee (0.01 or 0.005 $) for each e-mail they pass throughJ their network. Call it tax or security fee or whatever you like. What willO happen: the company will pass on the fee to the smaller network companies that  N are connected to them. This will continue until the local internet provider inN Nigeria will charge his customers. This is a lot more effective than anti-spamJ laws. Unfortunately here is the answers I got from the European Comission:  A "your proposal to impose a per-message fee would seem to be quite@O interventionist in terms of our liberalised electronic communications markets."I         < Feel free to try the same at the other side of the Atlantic.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    -- cE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452,  ImmunbiologieA  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.deC  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyh9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmli   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Sep 2003 08:35:49 GMT= From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sense (Christoph Gartmann)mM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?e0 Message-ID: <bkp0l5$4oh$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  d In article <bkoakf$42ov5$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:3 >In article <ZuednaI5fOd9O_KiXTWJiw@metrocast.net>,A. >	"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> w >> aL >> I'd vote for that $.01 per email fee that was proposed:  I think it wouldL >> stop most spammers in their tracks, at least to the degree of making themO >> select for people who at least *might* be interested in their product rather  >> than just spam the world. i >rG >And how is it proposed to do this?  How do you know how many emails myVF >machine sends out?  Especially when I hide the originating machine inI >the first place.  Hint:  There is no central place on the INTERNET where . >the FBI or NSA is monitoring all the traffic.  O No problem. If our ISP would charge us on a per mail basis, I had no problem at*% all logging the relevant information.   M A Telco does the same and it doesn't matter if you have twenty phones at home  or only one.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanni   -- tE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452g  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot dea  D-79011  Freiburg, Germany:9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlb   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Sep 2003 13:14:55 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)M Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?t9 Message-ID: <bkph0f$4f1mp$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>-  + In article <3F6FE435.177A5C96@pacbell.net>,-* 	Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >  >  > I > You mean you don't point to any mail, or default, gateway IP?? How doesn( > your mail know where the next hop is?   F You are obviously confusing Mail with TCPIP.  Mail doesn't "hop".  TheH originator can contact the destination directly and deliver the message.D Many places run outgoing mail servers but few of them actually block/ outgoing traffic on port 25 for other machines.C  F >                                       I run my own server too, but IG > have to declare at least the address of my router and my router has ah+ > default gateway address, which is my ISP.a  . Which has absolutely nothing to do with Email.   >  >> aE >> What will be your reaction when you find that your home system gotsB >> infected by a virus that sent a commercial e-mail to 27 millionI >> addresses while you were at the beach over the weekend?  Will you justa/ >> pay the $270,000.00 bill your ISP sends you?  >>   > J > Of course you would have simple safegards, like decaring a maximum numer: > of outbound emails per day without further confirmation.  $ Where do you do that in MS Outhouse?   bill   -- fJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:49:54 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.ukM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?e) Message-ID: <bkpj22$mcv$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>p  U In article <3F6FE435.177A5C96@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:d >  >u >Mike Bartman wrote: >> oI >> On 22 Sep 2003 21:41:57 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h	 >> wrote:f >> eh >> >In article <bkoakf$42ov5$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:8 >> >> In article <ZuednaI5fOd9O_KiXTWJiw@metrocast.net>,7 >> >>      "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  >> >>>P >> >>> I'd vote for that $.01 per email fee that was proposed:  I think it wouldP >> >>> stop most spammers in their tracks, at least to the degree of making themS >> >>> select for people who at least *might* be interested in their product ratherd  >> >>> than just spam the world. >> >>uL >> >> And how is it proposed to do this?  How do you know how many emails my >> >> machine sends out? >> >A >> >Receiving ISPs charge the backbone for each message received.hC >> >Backbones charge each other (and sending ISPs) for each message0
 >> >received.  >> dA >> How do any of these know that a given packet is part of a mailn? >> message?  The port number used?  What about those who run on C >> non-standard ports, or over other protocols for part of the trip  >> (web-mail for instance)?a > F >Yes. Charge by headers directed to port 25. Others simply wouldn't beE >part of the solution and could continue to use any port they wished.0 >s   >> i% >> What if the sender isn't an ISP?  iI >The sender doesn't have to be an ISP. But the ISP that gave provided youiF >with your IP address would be responsible for assesing those charges. >e# >> I run my own mailserver...my ISP E >> isn't involved except in moving packets at the TCP/IP level.  Am Io >> supposed to bill myself?, > H >You mean you don't point to any mail, or default, gateway IP?? How doesE >your mail know where the next hop is? I run my own server too, but IaF >have to declare at least the address of my router and my router has a* >default gateway address, which is my ISP. >e   >> tE >> What will be your reaction when you find that your home system gotmB >> infected by a virus that sent a commercial e-mail to 27 millionI >> addresses while you were at the beach over the weekend?  Will you justi/ >> pay the $270,000.00 bill your ISP sends you?a >> u >2I >Of course you would have simple safegards, like decaring a maximum numeri9 >of outbound emails per day without further confirmation.q >$B >> There may be a solution to the spam problem, but that isn't it. >>   >n$ >I wouldn't be so sure. Money talks. >a  H How will you enforce this. To work it has to be applied worldwide to allL "ISPs" (or at least a majority - since I suppose you would refuse to receive# mail from those who don't sign up).tI However until a majority have signed up it pays for an ISP NOT TO charge.dK They will get more customers if they don't charge and their competitor down  the road does charge.u  L Also until all systems are charging you will be causing chaos since you will= have destroyed any hope of consistent reliable mail delivery.   K I think Money will talk - it'll say "this is madness - this "cure" is worse  than the disease".  J The only people who could think this is a good idea are non-technical bean	 counters.b    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 08:02:03 -07001 From: usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer)nM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ? = Message-ID: <477e0934.0309230702.2874cf3b@posting.google.com>d  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F6FDA1B.359A6B91@istop.com>...gO > Another issue is that of viruses. It would be best to simply educate everyone P > to simply avoid anything microsoft. But if that won't happen, there isn't muchD > to be done to prevent viri since microsoft is such an easy target.    A Not a solution.  Most OS'es have holes.  The virus writers target F whatever the mainstream OS is because that is how they get the highestC infection rate.  If we all switched over to Apple instead, then the > virus writers would target MacOS and poke holes all over that.   This isn't MSFT's fault.   -joshb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:30:25 +0100l( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>M Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?n9 Message-ID: <bkpovi$4hrnn$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>   > "Joshua Lehrer" <usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com> wrote in message7 news:477e0934.0309230702.2874cf3b@posting.google.com...e7 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagee% news:<3F6FDA1B.359A6B91@istop.com>...tH > > Another issue is that of viruses. It would be best to simply educate everyoneG > > to simply avoid anything microsoft. But if that won't happen, therep
 isn't muchF > > to be done to prevent viri since microsoft is such an easy target. >p >wC > Not a solution.  Most OS'es have holes.  The virus writers target<H > whatever the mainstream OS is because that is how they get the highestE > infection rate.  If we all switched over to Apple instead, then the @ > virus writers would target MacOS and poke holes all over that. >l > This isn't MSFT's fault.   I disagree.dE If MS had built their OS's to be properly secure from day1 then virusuE writers would have had a much harder and less productive time gettinglL started, and would most likely have moved onto some other form of vandalism.J Sad though it is, if they had made MS stuff secure, we would probably haveL even fewer VMS systems remaining. Fortunately there are some people with the) savvy to look behind the glossy wrapping.?     -- John Travell" Independent VMS crashdump analyst. john- at - jomatech - dot - comd +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/         --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/2003:   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:25:27 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: SMTP to PMDF IMAP vms mail w/attachments hosed?< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0309230825.a99d0c2@posting.google.com>  : we are moving our vms mail to PMDF and after BACKUP a user8 directory and then restoring on the new mail server box,< we cannot view any mail that had attachments or HTML format!9 Process can't understand it and the only way it will worke8 is using PMDFs MIGRATE utility, but it is slow and their9 are some mail accounts with thousands of messages ... hash9 anyone ever ran into this problem w/PMDF and is there any, way to the MIGRATE migrane?n   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 07:48:30 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n+ Subject: Re: source for 431 pin CPU socket? 3 Message-ID: <LlK3pA$PcmKW@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  [ In article <3F6F9F4C.B52034CD@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:f  G > Do you have a desoldering tool? Spring-loaded sucker - heat the jointsI > until the solder flows then suck it away. Let it cool and break teh pinlI > loose with a small screw driver or something else. Do that on each pin,yD > being careful to cool the board so it doesn't heat the surrounding# > components. Kinda tedious, but...-  E    Spent a few hours doing that.  Then I got some solder wick (copper(G    braid) and removed some more solder with that.  Many of the pins areI    still quite well anchored.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:14:40 +0200e" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>9 Subject: SWEN, McAfee VIRUSSCAN (tm) and all these thingss4 Message-ID: <3f700f06$0$27585$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  . I know, this is not the right place etc etc...  H I tried yesterday to help a friend who has been infected, well, his PC, I by SWENchit. I ran the SWENstinger (forgot its real name) from SYMANTEC. 6% It found it and fixed it (I hope so).e  B After reboot, no more "this PC will reboot because the RPC server  terminated unexpectedly".x  A But, the VIRUSSCAN install displayed suddenly an error dialogbox sH containing only a red cross and a click to continue button. The install C terminated "successfully", but then the update session failed with r> "unable to perform the virus definition update" message (free  translation from French).l  D I did not succeed to have it updated in any way, so the PC is *not* D protected. This message is displayed when the internet connexion is H broken (I tried), but here I have a permanent ADSL link, so it may be a  consequence of the virus.t  & Did someone experiment that situation? Thanks,v   D. -- -- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurosc                     Tout VMS.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 04:07:14 -0400s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>7 Subject: TCPIP Services: SLIP and terminal flow controli) Message-ID: <3F6FFEFE.B821F2F6@istop.com>n  = VAX VMS 7.2, TCPIP Services 5.1  (Slip crashes VMS with 5.3).h  B Serial port set with /COMMSYNC which enables RTS/CTS flow control.  H When the PDA logs in interactively to the serial port (TX device), I canK verify the proper flow control with a RS232 analyser. The PDA will drop RTSrG and the VAX immediatly stops sending. And on the slow display, the filerN scrolls without any loss of data (with the right text file with columnar data,' any loss of data becomes very obvious).   K However, when I enable the line as a SLIP line with TCPIP SET INTERFACE SL1 H /SERIAL=TXC0: and then attemp to send data to the PDA, I can see the PDAK dropping  RTS but the vax continuing to send data. After when this happens,rL the PDA decides the line has failed and drops the connections from its side.  G Unfortunatly, when I do the TCPIP SET INTERFACE, the terminal becomes alK network communications device and I can no longer SHOW TERMINAL to see whatnL sort of settings it would have. Are there any tools to extract a TX's deviceB characteristics even when it has been hijacked by TCPIP$INET_ACP ?  J Would there be any to force the /COMMSYNC back onto the terminal after the+ TCPIP$INET_ACP has hijacked the TX device ?r  F Is there a documentation to find out if the TCPIP$INET_ACP changes theL characteristics of a device ? Is it possible that it has its own full set ofD bits that it imposes on the device, instead of getting 6the device's7 characteristics and setting only the bits that matter ?t  M Has anyone had any experience with regards to flow control on a SLIP device ?d Any hints ?0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:16:36 +0200a( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>7 Subject: Re: TCPIP:DNS Dual interfaces and domain namest9 Message-ID: <bkpv8n$4fq9k$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>u  9 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> schreef in berichte# news:3F6F5CFC.22985D3D@istop.com...r > H Vlems wrote:L > > I'd think that the problem with traceroute is an indication of a routing$ > > problem rather than a DNS error. >sJ > If I can ping the PDA from any machine on my lan, and if my PDA can ping any K > machine on my lan, doesn't this mean that the routing is properly setup ?e   Yes. >DF > On VMS, I can manually set routes so that BIKE knows that to send to	 PSION, iteJ > must route through VELO. But on the old MAC, I don't have the ability to setupe > static routes. >e? So the MAC relies on the routing tables of its default gateway.e  -     MAC --------- (1)BIKE(2) --------- ROUTERe  J The MAC should have the IP address of VELO(1) set for its default gateway.  I > So the way I did it is tell the mac it is in a 10.0.*.* subnet and sendsK > anything else to the router. (default gateway field).  And on the router,  IlL > defined a static route to 10.1.*.* that goes via VELO. It works, but is an
 > extra step.  >rH That is the part I don't get: there shouldn't be an "extra" step, right?  E > Just wondering what is needed to get VELO to broadcast the route tot 10.1.*.*B > so that I would not have to hardcode that route as static routes
 everywhereH > else, and so that hopefully, the mac would see the route broadcast and know > how to send to 10.1.*.*   H The MAC will never know because it has no routing functionality, that isK what I think you wrote a little earlier. But if the ASCII art picture aboveFJ is right then BIKE ought to have RIP running and thus knows how to deliver the packet.    >e >IK > > Routed (or RIP version 1) should handle this quite well. OTOH you use atI > > class A network, probably with a 24 bit mask so your LAN may be a lotf larger% > > thanis obvious from your post :-)  >IE > No, it only has 5 nodes and a router. But Since I am allowed to usel	 10.*.*.*,nG > it was much easier to take big chunks to define my subnets instead ofi splitingI >  10.0.0.* into two subnets and dealing with ugly bit masks and lat bytetD > numbering limits (eg: from 0-31 is one subnet, 32 to 255 another). >t= Would this be reasonably accurate description of the network?s                  MAC                    |                    |1hG               BIKE              VELO      FIETS    FAHRRAD   BICYCLETTE J                   | 2                     |              |               | | B           --------------------------------------------------------"                                 |1                            ROUTER"                                 |2"                         <internet>  H interface           IP address      default gateway        default route RIPl0 MAC              10.0.1.11             10.0.1.10 BIKE 1           10.0.1.100 BIKE 2           10.0.0.10              10.0.0.6 Yesa1 VELO             10.0.0.2                10.0.0.6e3 FIETS             10.0.0.3                 10.0.0.6 - FAHRRAD     10.0.0.4                 10.0.0.6e4 Bicyclette         10.0.0.5                 10.0.0.6/ ROUTER 1     10.0.0.6                  10.0.0.6s Yesn( ROUTER 2      88.77.66.33       your ISP          4 > x--   100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com> > x--   3,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups1 > x--   Access to over 800 Gigs/Day - $8.95/Month5 > x--   UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:21:52 +0100DO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>cY Subject: Re: There is no Joy in Sunville -- mighty Billy has struck out [on his own] his w0 Message-ID: <bkpdta$h5f$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote:s > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bkmlif$gse$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...i > ? >>What you probably also didn't notice is that the whole marketw> >>dipped by ~5% on Sept 9-10. 3% below the market would hardly@ >>prove your point in fact it just illustrates that you are just >>grasping at straws.0 >  > G > No, the "whole market" didn't dip ~5% on Sept. 9-10.  One can readily-C > see that the S&P 500 and Dow Jones Industrial average didn't drop " > much, judging from Yahoo's data:M > http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=3m&s=SUNW&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=&c=%5ESPX&c=%5EDJI5 >   = ohh dear ohh dear. What market is Sun's shares quoted on ????e   NASAQi  > The whole of the market in which SUNW is quoted NASDAQ dropped by ~5% between on the 9th/10th.g    F > And even a drop of 3% of your market cap. in a single day would sillE > seem to indicate the market felt the news was significant, and bad.  >  > B >>You still havn't explained someone as dilligent as you failed to, >>notice that Bill is going for over a week. >  > E > I have a job as a engineer at HP.  I don't spend full-time watching-E > Sun, and I don't read (and, even more significantly, I don't spreadrG > FUD in) comp.unix.solaris or any of the other Sun-related newsgroups; H > I typically only notice a news item about Sun when someone else within > HP points it out.     4 Ahh more pejorative use of FUD when in fact you mean" facts that make you uncomfortable.  8 You also seem to spend rather a lot of time trotting out@ stuff about Sun that ends up being wrong on closer analysis ....   For an engineer.  < Perhaps you should leave it to marketeers at least when they2 get caught they can just claim its only marketing.   Regardsn Andrew Harrisonp   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 05:01:04 -0700% From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams)I3 Subject: Re: Trying to figure out license transferse= Message-ID: <ea44f5a1.0309230401.2705a384@posting.google.com>    rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message news:<rdeininger-2209032038590001@user-uinj5tu.dialup.mindspring.com>...? > In article <ea44f5a1.0309220602.6aaae26a@posting.google.com>, ( > tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) wrote: > @ > >rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in messageK >  news:<rdeininger-1909032104470001@user-105n86e.dialup.mindspring.com>...eB > >> In article <ea44f5a1.0309191008.3d911fcb@posting.google.com>,+ > >> tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) wrote:e > >> 25 > >> >Can you still get DS10/466 systems new from HP?. > >> >E > >> >So far, the only quote that I have is for a refurbished system.s > >> >9 > >> >I thought I saw a new system listed on the HP site.7 > >> 5O > >> This question has come up several times lately.  I just (re)checked the HPh7 > >> Alphaserver web page, and the DS10 is still shown.s > >> e+ > >> http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/  > >> nM > >> Are you able to talk to an above-room-temperature person at HP and get ae( > >> direct answer to the DS10 question? > >rH > >A while back, I got an unsolicted email from a guy at HP that said weG > >should consider him our HP point of contact.  He was the first guy IeE > >send a request for quotation to.  He never acknowledged my email. m> > >Meanwhile, I have been in touch with some resellers.  Had a# > >conversation with an Island rep.  > K > I think it would be fair to post his name.  Something might have happenedn: > beyond his control, or he might have just blown you off.  B Someone from HP did get back to me by phone shortly after I postedD about getting no response to my emal.  They are working on the quote. and they answered my questions about licenses.  F I can transfer the concurrent user and the volume shadowing and TCPIP.  B I need to buy the base and an add-on to get Motif and DECnet.  The0 add-on is called Enterprise Integration Package.  O > >> Did you fill out the "buy online" form on the Alpha web page?  Did you gets# > >> any response?  Was it helpful?e > >eI > >Have not tried that.  I may contact my "point of contact" by phone andMF > >see if he will send a quote.  I would like to have 3 quotes for the > >purchasing process. > F > I filled in the form late Friday, and have heard nothing so far.  OfK > course, my email box has been filled up for most of that time.  We'll seenE > if HP will expend effort to sell an upgrade to my DEC 3000 systems.   = Here is my HP point of contact, but he may only cover Federalm- goverment and suppliers to the Feds, like us:s  
 Ronald Beier a Outbound Sales Representative  Public Sector  HP - Email: Ronald.Beier@hp.com 0 1-877-480-4433 ext 15560   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:36:54 GMTg' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>o Subject: Re: vax/vms cobol job?F+ Message-ID: <3F6FDC81.12301E67@pacbell.net>r   tutor@nospam.cfl.rr.com wrote: > H > 20 years vax vms cobol. would like to continue the streak. anyone know% > of an installation using the beast?t  G I know of one, but it's top secret and their converting to a shiney newt Unix system by years' end.  F If you finish up after I do, be sure to turn the lights out before you leave :)   --     Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Franciscon   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:28:23 GMTe" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Drivero0 Message-ID: <00A26524.5E27EA28@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <bko3ob$bra$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, "Murray Styman" <murray.nospam.styman@btintrnet.com> writes:oM >Our developers are constantly using the tape units as part of the applicaionwH >they are developing and keep dismounting the tapes which means that ourJ >operators have to reload.  Part of there job, but a pain in the arse whenJ >you have to do it every 5 minutes.  They also seem to get there processesK >into varying states which lock up the tape unit and often the only way out  >is a reboot!. >eA >I work in a very security contious environment and giving accessi6 >un-necessaryily to the tape units is not a good idea. > K >I thought that a virtual tape unit would be a good solution.  No where foraL >the test data to go, reduced access to the real tape units, faster response0 >and if they lock it up jut create a new device.  H Do your developers need to read tape or just write?  A simple (modified)H NLDRIVER (one handling mount/dismount and sordid other details) might be your answer.   --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            i5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" g   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 07:44:02 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Drivert3 Message-ID: <$gMMmi4$vJLQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  U In article <00A264B9.050C740C@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:vq > In article <bknl6e$hhd$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, "Murray Styman" <murray.nospam.styman@btintrnet.com> writes:s< >>Does anyone have or know of a virtual tape driver for vms? >>& >>Preferably freeware and with source. >> > B > So that you can perform virtual backups and virtual restores? ;) > $ > What are you trying to accomplish?  G    Obviously his VMS system is overloading NLA0: and he needs someplace2#    else to use up kernel mode time.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:59:56 GMTs" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Driver.0 Message-ID: <00A26539.8A500B1C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <$gMMmi4$vJLQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:eV >In article <00A264B9.050C740C@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:r >> In article <bknl6e$hhd$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, "Murray Styman" <murray.nospam.styman@btintrnet.com> writes:= >>>Does anyone have or know of a virtual tape driver for vms?n >>>o' >>>Preferably freeware and with source.e >>>t >> vC >> So that you can perform virtual backups and virtual restores? ;)l >> c% >> What are you trying to accomplish?i >aH >   Obviously his VMS system is overloading NLA0: and he needs someplace$ >   else to use up kernel mode time. >yB Except that many of the I/O functions that are used on a real tape. device will not perform successfully on NLA0:.   $ ALLOCATE NLA0:< %SYSTEM-W-DEVALLOC, device already allocated to another user  6 $ MOUNT NLA0: XYZZY NOT_READY_FOR_PRIME_TIME_TAPEDRIVE9 %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, device already allocated to another userd= %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, device _NLA0: is not available for mounting.n8 %MOUNT-I-NOOPR, no operator available to service request   --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            g5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:44:56 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Drivero/ Message-ID: <00A2653F.CF640377.3@tachysoft.com>t   >>I >>   Obviously his VMS system is overloading NLA0: and he needs someplace:% >>   else to use up kernel mode time.l >>C >Except that many of the I/O functions that are used on a real tape*/ >device will not perform successfully on NLA0:.o >o >$ ALLOCATE NLA0:t= >%SYSTEM-W-DEVALLOC, device already allocated to another user  > 7 >$ MOUNT NLA0: XYZZY NOT_READY_FOR_PRIME_TIME_TAPEDRIVEm: >%MOUNT-I-OPRQST, device already allocated to another user> >%MOUNT-I-OPRQST, device _NLA0: is not available for mounting.9 >%MOUNT-I-NOOPR, no operator available to service requesth >p    M TS11 can of course do all this stuff, as shown in the log below.  Again, it'spF not currently a product, but it could be made into one with sufficientM interest.  So far only one person has expressed a need, which doesn't exactly  constitute a market.  :-)           3 LARRY> ts11 init/system/enable_mt3/online virt_drivs= %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 2340020F: LARRY> sho dev/ful virt_driv  N Magtape SDA15:, device type TLZ07, is online, file-oriented device, controllerI     supports compaction (compaction  disabled), device supports fastskip.B  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                  1iO     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                       [WAYNE]eO     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPLXO     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                2048 O     Density                     DDS1    Format                        Normal-11o  4   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, odd parity.  - LARRY> ts11 load/online/ring VIRT_DRIV vir006pP VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-LOADED, HARDY_DISK6:[SP32_PRODUCT_TEST.TS11_TEST_COMMON]VIR00 6.TS11;1 loaded on VIRT_DRIV8 VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-ONLINE, drive VIRT_DRIV turned online$ LARRY> mount virt_driv vir006  bogus+ %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, VIR006 mounted on _SDA15:  LARRY> sho dev/ful virt_driv  P Magtape SDA15:, device type TLZ07, is online, allocated, deallocate on dismount,N     mounted, file-oriented device, controller supports compaction (compaction (     disabled), device supports fastskip.  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                 13mO     Owner process       "wayne@RTA1"    Owner UIC                       [WAYNE]oO     Owner process ID        234001B4    Dev Prot    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPL O     Reference count                2    Default buffer size                2048   O     Volume label            "VIR006"    Relative volume no.                   1sO     Record size                    0    Transaction count                     1cO     Mount status             Process    Mount count                           1o$     ACP process name     "SDA15AACP"O     Density                  default    Format                        Normal-11o  P   Volume status:  beginning-of-tape, end-of-file, subject to mount verification,  odd parity.   LARRY> ts11 status virt_drivP %TS11-I-TAPEFILE, file loaded: HARDY_DISK6:[SP32_PRODUCT_TEST.TS11_TEST_COMMON]V IR006.TS11;1' -TS11-I-TAPEWRT, drive is write enabledo' -TS11-I-TAPEONL, drive is turned onlinea+ -TS11-I-TAPENOENDLESS, drive is not endless 7 -TS11-I-TAPEUSED, 0 bytes used out of 5120000 (0% full)cI -TS11-I-PANELCLR, the front panel for device VIRT_DRIV is currently blankt+ %TS11-I-DENSITY, current density is defaultt5 -TS11-I-NOCOMPRESS, compression is currently disabledb3 -TS11-I-MT3, drive is currently in MT3 density modey2 -TS11-I-DEVTYPE, current tape device type is tlz07I -TS11-I-NOFAST_SKIP, drive currently does not have fast skip mode enabled-" LARRY> dismount/nounload virt_drivP VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-PANELCLR, the front panel for device VIRT_DRIV is currently b lankA LARRY> backup/log/lab=vir006 home:login.com virt_driv:my_save.bakp+ %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, VIR006 mounted on _SDA15:e8 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]LOGIN.COM;2 LARRY> sho dev/ful virt_driv  P Magtape SDA15:, device type TLZ07, is online, allocated, deallocate on dismount,M     mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-oriented device, controller I     supports compaction (compaction  disabled), device supports fastskip.u  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                 67lO     Owner process       "wayne@RTA1"    Owner UIC                       [WAYNE]nO     Owner process ID        234001B4    Dev Prot    S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPLlO     Reference count                2    Default buffer size                8192k  O     Volume label            "VIR006"    Relative volume no.                   0nO     Record size                    0    Transaction count                     1oO     Mount status             Process    Mount count                           1t$     ACP process name              ""O     Density                  default    Format                        Normal-11s  *   Volume status:  end-of-file, odd parity.   LARRY> ts11 status virt_drivP %TS11-I-TAPEFILE, file loaded: HARDY_DISK6:[SP32_PRODUCT_TEST.TS11_TEST_COMMON]V IR006.TS11;1' -TS11-I-TAPEWRT, drive is write enabledr' -TS11-I-TAPEONL, drive is turned online + -TS11-I-TAPENOENDLESS, drive is not endless ; -TS11-I-TAPEUSED, 16820 bytes used out of 5120000 (0% full)mI -TS11-I-PANELCLR, the front panel for device VIRT_DRIV is currently blankw+ %TS11-I-DENSITY, current density is default-5 -TS11-I-NOCOMPRESS, compression is currently disabledT3 -TS11-I-MT3, drive is currently in MT3 density mode 2 -TS11-I-DEVTYPE, current tape device type is tlz07I -TS11-I-NOFAST_SKIP, drive currently does not have fast skip mode enabled-P LARRY> backup/log/lab=vir006/den=dds1/media=compact/ign=inter home:netserver.log  virt_driv:other_save.bakw? %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]NETSERVER.LOG;1084B? %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]NETSERVER.LOG;1083t? %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]NETSERVER.LOG;1082d? %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied LAUREL_DISK2:[WAYNE]NETSERVER.LOG;1081f" LARRY> dismount/nounload virt_drivP VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-PANELCLR, the front panel for device VIRT_DRIV is currently b lank# LARRY> mount virt_driv vir006 bogus + %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, VIR006 mounted on _SDA15:m LARRY> dir bogus:[]p   Directory BOGUS:[]  ( MY_SAVE.BAK;1       OTHER_SAVE.BAK;1       Total of 2 files.e" LARRY> dismount/nounload virt_drivP VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-PANELCLR, the front panel for device VIRT_DRIV is currently b lank7 LARRY> backup/list /lab=vir006 virt_driv:OTHER_SAVE.BAKh Listing of save set(s)  + %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, VIR006 mounted on _SDA15: ! Save set:          OTHER_SAVE.BAK  Written by:        WAYNE       s" UIC:               [000051,000001]* Date:              23-SEP-2003 09:20:44.43P Command:           BACKUP/LOG/LAB=VIR006/DEN=DDS1/MEDIA=COMPACT/IGN=INTER HOME:N% ETSERVER.LOG VIRT_DRIV:OTHER_SAVE.BAKi- Operating system:  OpenVMS Alpha version V7.3b BACKUP version:    AXP73-1 CPU ID register:   80000000- Node name:         _LARRY::: Written on:        _SDA15: Block size:        8192j Group size:        10i Buffer count:      128  P [WAYNE]NETSERVER.LOG;1084                                  27   8-SEP-2003 15:32 :10 P [WAYNE]NETSERVER.LOG;1083                                  15   8-SEP-2003 15:13 :28:P [WAYNE]NETSERVER.LOG;1082                                   0  25-JUN-2003 08:41 :28nP [WAYNE]NETSERVER.LOG;1081                                   0  25-JUN-2003 08:40 :54I   Total of 4 files, 42 blocksr End of save seta   LARRY> dismount virt_drivnP VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-PANELCLR, the front panel for device VIRT_DRIV is currently b lank: VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-OFFLINE, drive VIRT_DRIV turned offlineP VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-UNLOADED, HARDY_DISK6:[SP32_PRODUCT_TEST.TS11_TEST_COMMON]VIR" 006.TS11;1 unloaded from VIRT_DRIV LARRY> ts11 term VIRT_DRIV e LARRY> e: VIRT_DRIV: %TS11-I-TERMINATED, device VIRT_DRIV terminated
 LARRY> log4   WAYNE        logged out at 23-SEP-2003 09:22:34.32O ===============================================================================cN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   nO ===============================================================================mN Butler:"Gentlemen!"  Curly(as he and other Stooges look around):"Who came in?"   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 10:25:58 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Driver|3 Message-ID: <SULKaA$UWNEL@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  U In article <00A26539.8A500B1C@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:-   > $ ALLOCATE NLA0:> > %SYSTEM-W-DEVALLOC, device already allocated to another user > 8 > $ MOUNT NLA0: XYZZY NOT_READY_FOR_PRIME_TIME_TAPEDRIVE; > %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, device already allocated to another user$? > %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, device _NLA0: is not available for mounting.e: > %MOUNT-I-NOOPR, no operator available to service request   Fire your lazy operator !    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:33:01 GMTw4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Drivers0 Message-ID: <3F7074A6.CD3A8B58@blueyonder.co.uk>   Murray Styman wrote: > N > Our developers are constantly using the tape units as part of the applicaionI > they are developing and keep dismounting the tapes which means that ouruK > operators have to reload.  Part of there job, but a pain in the arse whennK > you have to do it every 5 minutes.  They also seem to get there processespL > into varying states which lock up the tape unit and often the only way out > is a reboot!.i > B > I work in a very security contious environment and giving access7 > un-necessaryily to the tape units is not a good idea.e > L > I thought that a virtual tape unit would be a good solution.  No where forM > the test data to go, reduced access to the real tape units, faster responsea1 > and if they lock it up jut create a new device.o  R Are your management aware of the dangers of mixing your development and production( enviroments as it appears you are doing?   -- r tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:43:48 +0000 (UTC) : From: "Murray Styman" <murray.nospam.styman@btintrnet.com> Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Drivera/ Message-ID: <bkq0ok$kq1$1@titan.btinternet.com>o  * Unfortunately they need to Read and Write.    , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A26524.5E27EA28@SendSpamHere.ORG...D > In article <bko3ob$bra$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, "Murray Styman", <murray.nospam.styman@btintrnet.com> writes:D > >Our developers are constantly using the tape units as part of the
 applicaionJ > >they are developing and keep dismounting the tapes which means that ourL > >operators have to reload.  Part of there job, but a pain in the arse whenL > >you have to do it every 5 minutes.  They also seem to get there processesI > >into varying states which lock up the tape unit and often the only waye outw > >is a reboot!. > >aC > >I work in a very security contious environment and giving accessr8 > >un-necessaryily to the tape units is not a good idea. > >fI > >I thought that a virtual tape unit would be a good solution.  No where  foreE > >the test data to go, reduced access to the real tape units, fasteru response2 > >and if they lock it up jut create a new device. > J > Do your developers need to read tape or just write?  A simple (modified)J > NLDRIVER (one handling mount/dismount and sordid other details) might be > your answer. >s > --2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >T6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:38:15 +0200s> From: "Winfried Bergmann" <winfried.bergmannNosPAM@empuron.de>+ Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in Linux articlem9 Message-ID: <bkot6f$3ufn5$1@ID-170759.news.uni-berlin.de>   B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag! news:3F6FA2D3.9A089E0F@fsi.net...i > JF Mezei wrote:a > >n# > > Isn't Linux just another Unix ?  >xI > Yes and no. Linus did his best to emulate the UN*X kernel. Linux is not  > UN*X and UN*X is not Linux.7  & According to this: OSF/1 is not UNIX !   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2003 07:42:47 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c+ Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in Linux article.3 Message-ID: <dE5BGPthbrRO@eisner.encompasserve.org>9  h In article <bko67h$4018j$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > I > A pile of dog poop looks like expensive french pate'.  You want that on E > toast or a cracker?  An similarity between Linux and Unix is purely 
 > accidental.       Except that:l"       1) it was done intentionallyA       2) the resemblance is due to sharing all the worst features    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:21:20 -0700 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>e+ Subject: Re: VMS mentioned in Linux article ( Message-ID: <3F707300.8030008@rdrop.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:m! >>Isn't Linux just another Unix ?> > I > Yes and no. Linus did his best to emulate the UN*X kernel. Linux is notn > UN*X and UN*X is not Linux.D  H And the free versions of BSD, then, which did (as I understand it) spin ' off from the pedigreed BSD source code?7   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.528 ************************