1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 27 Sep 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 535       Contents:0 Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way?@ Re: All systems are go, except the magical disappearing licenses> Re: Alternatives to SETCIM on (VAX) VMS for PLC Communication?> RE: Alternatives to SETCIM on (VAX) VMS for PLC Communication? Re: AMD64 sales figures  RE: AMD64 sales figures  Re: AMD64 sales figures  Re: BEA WebLogic and VMS3 Re: DecServer 900TM Ethernet wiring characteristics 3 Re: DecServer 900TM Ethernet wiring characteristics # Re: DHCP & Advanced Server question , Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi0 Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi0 Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi0 Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi0 Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) hobbyist lic Re: hobbyist lic Re: hobbyist lic Re: hobbyist lic7 How to get a list of files and size that can be purged? ; Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged? ; RE: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged? ; Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged? ; Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged?  Re: How to uninstall?  Re: How to uninstall?  Re: HP is top chip buyer Re: HP to drop hpux?6 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead. I've got your back."( Re: Linux is the favourite hacker target( Re: Linux is the favourite hacker target Re: New round of cuts at HP  Re: Nice touch, AMD D Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programD Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programD Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ? Re: Quorum DIsk Question& Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows* RE: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows* Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows* Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows* Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows* Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows* Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows8 Re: TCP/IP development (was Re: New round of cuts at HP)8 Re: TCP/IP development (was Re: New round of cuts at HP)2 Re: VMS "is" affordable for small/medium business!< Re: VMS Cracked! [was: Linux is the favourite hacker target]< Re: VMS Cracked! [was: Linux is the favourite hacker target]. VMS JVM implementation of sub-process deletion Re: VMS system on the web ? When does the VMS advertising campaign start around this topic? ' [CSWS_JAVA V2.1] Installation problem ? ! [ZIP V2.3] Bad error/return codes % Re: [ZIP V2.3] Bad error/return codes   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:52:04 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> 9 Subject: Re: A flood of spams - another virus on the way? + Message-ID: <3F74D1E3.8BB8F946@pacbell.net>    goolu wrote: > \ > Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3F6F7D04.AE8599B0@pacbell.net>... > > Dean Woodward wrote: > > >  > > > Don Sykes wrote: > > > J > > > > Even at .01 / email I'm sure it wouldn't be worth it. I can't evenM > > > > figure how spam senders make any money as it is. Who responds to this  > > > > stuff? > > > N > > > It's possible you're looking at it from the wrong angle. The money isn't= > > > in selling things via spam, it's in selling spam tools.  > > E > > Sort of like MLM heh? You don't really make any money selling the > > > product, but rather by selling someone ELSE on selling the > > product....UGH!  > > K > > I think I'll just cash in on part of that $28M of Nigerian money I keep  > > hearing about:):)  > C > My yahoo mail & lycos mail account continuously receives email of " > below titles since few days ago: > A > 1. "Newest Microsoft Critical Patch", "Current Network Critical H > Update", "Net Update", "Newest Network Pack", "Newest Security Patch",' > etc - with virus embedded attachment. ? > 2. "Error Report", "undelivered message: returned to mailer", C > "Returned Mail", etc telling me I have sent undelivered e-mail to 0 > address which I haven't sent e-mail to at all. > H > Both yahoo & lycos couldn't mark those mail as spam or junk. Now I canE > only delete them as I see them but there are tens of them injecting B > into my mail box everyday. The filtering tools available are notA > enough to block them all because the spams come in with so much 1 > variations of sender, receiver, subject values.  > E > How long will I & other victims have to wait (FOREVER?) before such F > bombardment ends. What are the ISPs & mail service provider doing to- > stop such flooding continue. Anyone knows ?   8 I and others in this NG are trying to do something - see' http://alphase.com/vms/FBEProtocol.html    --     Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2003 11:45:12 -0700. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)I Subject: Re: All systems are go, except the magical disappearing licenses < Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0309261045.f2821a5@posting.google.com>  k Jeffrey Green <pleasereply@thisnewsgroup.com> wrote in message news:<3F739858.6000508@thisnewsgroup.com>...  > Hello all, > F > Well after a lot of help from many of you I have my mini-cluster (3 K > workstations and one server) running with independent system disks, MSCP  K >   served "server" disk mounted on each client and sylogicals pointing in  J > all the right places, UCX up and functioning, and the HP printer almost 
 > configured.  > D > I have found a "new" problem that I cannot explain though.  After H > booting the cluster server and the 3 workstations everything is fine. J > If I have to reboot one of the workstations though, it gets crazy.  The I > workstation comes back up but says that the license limit was exceeded  G > (thus Decnet, Xwindows Motif and UCX fail to start, and I cannot log  K > in).    This happens on all of the workstations when I reboot them.  The  K > only way to get back to "normal" is to reboot the entire cluster, server   > first. > J > The only "key" thing I did have to do to make the licensing work in the K > beginning was a mod_units on the cluster master.  Until I get the actual  D > license (or try loading the client licenses on the master) I have I > mod_units the net-app-sup-200 and set it to only include the 4 systems  K > in the cluster.  I boosted it from 1050 (requirement for single) to 6000  I > units. I tried 4 X 1050 but for some reason the 4th would exhibit this  2 > "missing license" problem right from the get-go. >  > Each system is licensed for:$ > OpenVMS                   12 units% > Openvms additional user   200 units & > Net-App-supp-200          1050 units > C > Any ideas as to where my licenses are going?  Is it counting the  + > workstation a second time after a reboot?  > K > I'm going to load the licenses from the workstations onto to the cluster  F > master to see if that helps as a crutch until I can get the correct   > licenses to run on the server. > . > Thanks in advance for any imparted wisdom =) >  > Jeffrey Green    That's interesting.   @ Do you *always* boot the server first and then the workstations?   I suggest doing a    SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE   + on each node to see what it requires, and a    SHOW LICENSE/USAGE  % to see what it's actually got loaded.   ? I'm betting that you need to use the /INCLUDE specification to  F make sure that each node only loads the licenses that it's s'posed to.  ? (@SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE is the easiest way to do the last one.)    Hope this helps,   WWWebb   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:41:53 +0000 (UTC) ) From: "Jeff" <dirkdiggler@totalise.co.uk> G Subject: Re: Alternatives to SETCIM on (VAX) VMS for PLC Communication? 0 Message-ID: <bl24q0$9kr$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  3 We currently still use SETCIM v.4.7 on OpenVMS VAX.   K The only other software we use from VAX to PLC is, Interchange by Rockwell.    Jeff  7 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message ! news:bl13e8$2o8$1@lore.csc.com... H > A straw poll for information to alternative software running under VMSE > which is capable of communicating with PLC's on factory floors etc.  > I > Manufacturing environment, SETCIM is/was the market leader on VMS years @ > ago, Aspen Technology are believed to be the SETCIM incumbent. > --  A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:19:14 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> G Subject: RE: Alternatives to SETCIM on (VAX) VMS for PLC Communication? R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0D86BB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   >=20 > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]]=20" > Sent: September 26, 2003 6:14 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >=20A > A straw poll for information to alternative software running=20 > > under VMS which is capable of communicating with PLC's on=20 > factory floors etc.  >=20B > Manufacturing environment, SETCIM is/was the market leader on=20B > VMS years ago, Aspen Technology are believed to be the SETCIM=20 > incumbent. > --; > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer=20   > Sciences nclews at csc dot com >=20   Nic -   8 Not sure if this is what you might be looking for, but -H http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/software/solutions/basestar/index.htm l    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:24:54 -0700 1 From: Greg Cagle <news@*removethis*gregcagle.com>   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures/ Message-ID: <vn8tjgikpsat72@corp.supernews.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > Greg Cagle wrote:  > + >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >> >>; >>> IA64 high quality, tell that to the customers who Intel : >>> suggested should clock their 1000 GHz units at 800 MHz% >>> to avoid data integrity problems.  >> >> >>' >> 1) Do you have a reference for this?  >>< >> 2) If I were you I wouldn't be bringing up data integrity >>    problems.  >  > % > If I were you I wouldn't have asked  > 1 > http://www.computerweekly.com/Article121736.htm   * OK - sorry. Must have missed that one 8^).   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:04:17 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>   Subject: RE: AMD64 sales figuresR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB0D868E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   >=20 > -----Original Message-----, > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy=203 > [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]=20 # > Sent: September 26, 2003 12:11 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >=20 > Greg Cagle wrote: , > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >=20 > >=20I > >> IA64 high quality, tell that to the customers who Intel suggested=20 B > >> should clock their 1000 GHz units at 800 MHz to avoid data=20 > integrity=20 > >> problems. > >=20 > >=20( > > 1) Do you have a reference for this? > >=20= > > 2) If I were you I wouldn't be bringing up data integrity  > >    problems. >=20% > If I were you I wouldn't have asked  >=201 > http://www.computerweekly.com/Article121736.htm  >=20	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >=20 >=20  / And if I were you, I'd remember the old phrase:  "those in glass houses ..."   
 Reference:  A http://sunsolve.sun.com/pub-cgi/retrieve.pl?doc=3Dfsalert%2F55081  Sun Alert ID: 55081=20H Synopsis: How to Detect Very Rare (1:83,000) UltraSPARC III FPU Failures   Category: Data Loss=202 Product: CPU, UltraSPARC III, UltraSPARC III CU=20 BugIDs: 4709936, 4803413=20  Avoidance: Upgrade=20  State: Resolved=20* Date Released: 19-May-2003, 06-Aug-2003=20 Date Closed: 19-May-2003=20 ' Date Modified: 24-Jun-2003, 06-Aug-2003     1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/17417.html D "Sun Microsystems is advising support staff not to let on to clientsE that problems they have with its kit might be due to a wider year-old  technical problem.=20   G The surprising advice from the hardware giant covers problems involving H a processor fault that can cause certain Sun servers, particularly those6 with 400MHz UltraSparc IIs, to crash without warning."  H http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/management/helpdesk/story/ 0,10801,55351,00.html E "Some users of Sun Microsystems Inc.'s UltraSPARC servers continue to F have problems with a defective memory component several months after aF senior Sun executive said the company was close to declaring "complete! victory" over the nagging issue."   E I could go on, but I think you get the message. Those living in glass ! houses should not throw stones...    :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:30:38 -0400 $ From: "rob kas" <news@paychoice.com>  Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures/ Message-ID: <vn8uk93p800b81@corp.supernews.com>    > , > OK - sorry. Must have missed that one 8^).  7  Yes but you always respond with single word   "ECache"   J   Big Difference between Early IA64 machines and what should mature Stable High End Sparcs.           >  > --   > Greg Cagle > gregc at gregcagle dot com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:42:20 -0500 ) From: Bruce Stephens <hbs@nospam.bea.com> ! Subject: Re: BEA WebLogic and VMS . Message-ID: <3F74B2BC.4CF33730@nospam.bea.com>  E Might try the news groups: http://newsgroups.bea.com/ then search for  VMS.  	 Also see: M http://e-docs.bea.com/wls/certifications/certs_700/special_install.html#42703    Bruce    John Brandon wrote:  >  > John Smith wrote:  > > John Brandon wrote: D > > > Anyone out there running BEA WebLogic on VMS V7.2?  (or V7.3?) > > > I > > > Looking for some blood and guts information on BEA WebLogic besides  > > > the posted sales pitch.  > > O > > I'm looking at the same combo.....if I find anything out I'll let you know.  > 	 > Thanks.  > P > My conversations with BEA have produced very little - though they seem willing> > to work with us on license package and configuration issues. >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:23:41 +0200 ( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>< Subject: Re: DecServer 900TM Ethernet wiring characteristics9 Message-ID: <bl20ak$6vuct$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   5 "Matthew Tan" <happy236@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht 7 news:77a91b88.0309260150.66fdce11@posting.google.com... H > We are currently using this terminal server on a few of our dot matrixE > printers (Epson LQ2180). It has been running with no problems until > > recently. A few of users complain that long reports (running? > on Digital UNIX on the ERP BAAN application) were truncated - @ > about 15 pages out of 92 were printed for one printer. Another0 > printer printed only about 50 pages out of 92. > ? > As I recently just taken over this outfit and like to examine E > the wiring, I am not sure of the wiring that links the DecServer to 9 > the printer, is it crossed, straight or something else?  > ) > Any other reason why it stops printing?  >  > Thanks in advance!  K If it used to work properly then the wiring would not be the first suspect. C Did something change on the network, like gigabit ethernet circuits L introduced in the path? Does it use LAT or IP to print to? And if it uses IPE (likely) did something change in routing or other IP characteristics?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:00:36 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> < Subject: Re: DecServer 900TM Ethernet wiring characteristics6 Message-ID: <3f74a8f5$0$58707$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>  I You should be a bit more precise in the description of your problem. The  I DECserver 900TM can be used in a DEC Multiswitch 900 backplane, in which  A case I believe it is impossible that you have an Ethernet wiring  H problem, or in combination with a DEChub One (I believe that is what it I is called), in which case you have a 10 Mb only UTP port to the Ethernet   network.  H On the front side the 900TM has 32 ports which look like UTP ports, but E which are actually RS232 serial ports. However, the wiring scheme of  7 these ports is similar to that being used for Ethernet.   I If it worked before (like Hans Vlems already pointed out) it is unlikely  G that you have a wiring problem. What you describe could be caused by a  $ change in the flow control settings.   HTH,  	 Bart Zorn    Matthew Tan wrote:I > We are currently using this terminal server on a few of our dot matrix  E > printers (Epson LQ2180). It has been running with no problems until > > recently. A few of users complain that long reports (running? > on Digital UNIX on the ERP BAAN application) were truncated - A > about 15 pages out of 92 were printed for one printer. Another  0 > printer printed only about 50 pages out of 92. > ? > As I recently just taken over this outfit and like to examine E > the wiring, I am not sure of the wiring that links the DecServer to 9 > the printer, is it crossed, straight or something else?  > ) > Any other reason why it stops printing?  >  > Thanks in advance!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:44:57 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>, Subject: Re: DHCP & Advanced Server question) Message-ID: <3F748926.4AC1A7A8@istop.com>    John Brandon wrote: O > I have been having problems configuring DHCP and would like to know if anyone O > has done so and could give me some examples or pointers.  I am a bit naive on  > this one.   + with the DHCP$GUI configuration (xwindows):    SERVER/SECURITY 4    -> Server-security params : fairly obvious stuff.2    -> IP Ranges: create a new entry: for instance:             Subnet: 10.0.0.0"             DHCP Server: 10.0.0.101             IP Ranges:   10.0.0.100 to 10.0.0.200      -> Hostnames List  	      Domain: chocolate.com!            DHCP Server: 10.0.0.10              Hostname prefix: dhcpa     (when DHCP generates a DNS entry, it will generate host names such as dhcp_100.chocolate.com)      SUBNETS     -> Basic DHCP parameters D        Create a new entry, give it a name such as "chocolate_subnet"        Leave "group" blank" +        Enter the subnet (such as 10.0.0.0 )         Vendor class empty   J        In the BOOTP parameters, you fill out the fields of interest and/orI which are obvious. This is information that will be sent as option to the G clients when they accept an offer. Notable fields: DNS Servers , Router J (default gateway in PC parlance). The IP Params: Broadcast address is your/ subnet's address with the last byte set to 255.   F       In the LEASE Parameters, you enter the durations. For instance: '       Rebind time "20 hr 59 min 59 sec" )       Renewall time "11 hr 59 min 59 sec"        Lease time: "1 day"   0 (generally, renewall is half of the lease time).  N You can also look at the -> DHCP Parameters subtab. It repeats the "Basic DHCPM Parameters" and adds even more options such as more TCPIP parameters (MTU for N instance) and servers, you can have the DHCP server tell clients where the POPD , SMTP etc serfers are located. Not sure if clients will act on that information though.     N The "NODES" tab is when you wish to configure specific nodes. For instance, ifM a printer can configure itself through DHCP, you can add an entry specific to H your printer, with its ethernet address (MAC address), and then whatever. parameters specific to the printer are needed.      N The GROUPS tab is when you wish to define a set of characteristics for answersJ to DHCP requests. You can then speficy that group,s name when you define aL NODE. This way, you don't have to provide specific information for each node@ since a node's info will come from the common group information.K (consider when you require authentication by ethernet address, you'd define L all your pCs in the NODE tab, and instead of providing all the info for eachS PC definition, you just point it to a group name that contains those definitions.).   L Beware: with 5.3 on VAX, the DHCP$GUI will crash when you try to edit fieldsM which have the multiple-values capacity. (for instance, if you try to enter a N list of DNS servers). You can use an earlier version of the executable to editJ those fields, and then returnm to the 5.3 version to edit the fields which( were not present in the earlier version.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2003 13:57:07 -0700 From: pjodk@yahoo.com (pjodk) 5 Subject: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi = Message-ID: <41ca748f.0309261257.7863271d@posting.google.com>   M Is it possible, to get the elapsed time from a lexical function when running   a DCL-procedure.  H I can't seem to find the right parameter....or am I just using the wrong lexical function ?   Eg.:     $ pid = f$pid("") ) $ write sys$output "This is the start..."  $ wait 00:00:10 H $ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time : ''f$getjpi(pid,<param>)'"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:47:25 GMT   From: Rob Brown <brown@gmcl.com>9 Subject: Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi L Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309261641280.27914-100000@localhost.localdomain>   On 26 Sep 2003, pjodk wrote:  O > Is it possible, to get the elapsed time from a lexical function when running   > a DCL-procedure. > J > I can't seem to find the right parameter....or am I just using the wrong > lexical function ? >  > Eg.:   >  > $ pid = f$pid("") + > $ write sys$output "This is the start..."  > $ wait 00:00:10 J > $ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time : ''f$getjpi(pid,<param>)'" >   / Fixed in the next version of VMS, so I am told.   F In the meantime, it depends on how large the elapsed time could get.    C I don't know where this trick came from, but I learned it from Jack  Harvey.   % $ start_time = f$cvtime ("",, "time") 8 $ write sys$output "This is the start ... ''start_time'" $ wait 00:00:10 2 $ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time : " -(   + f$cvtime ("-''start_time'",, "time")     --    / Rob Brown                        brown@gmcl.com A G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)4                                  (780)437-3367 (FAX)1                                  http://gmcl.com/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:07:13 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")9 Subject: Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi 6 Message-ID: <00A267E1.798C5743@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  a In article <3F74DB28.9A567831@oracle.com>, Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> writes: B >vms v7.3-2 (due "real soon now") includes a new lexical function 9 >f$delta_time that'd do just what you want.  For example:  >  >Mongo TNA11:> @x  >$ start=f$time()  >$ wait 0:0:10@ >$ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time :    0 00:00:10.00, >This is the elapsed time :    0 00:00:10.00 >Mongo TNA11:>      % I'm guessing you meant something like   G >$ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time :  'F$delta_time(start)'"   8 because what you wrote above doesn't calculate anything.   -- Alan    --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:34:48 -0600 4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>9 Subject: Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi * Message-ID: <3F74DB28.9A567831@oracle.com>  A vms v7.3-2 (due "real soon now") includes a new lexical function  8 f$delta_time that'd do just what you want.  For example:   Mongo TNA11:> @x $ start=f$time()
 $ wait 0:0:10 ? $ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time :    0 00:00:10.00 + This is the elapsed time :    0 00:00:10.00  Mongo TNA11:>      pjodk wrote: > N > Is it possible, to get the elapsed time from a lexical function when running > a DCL-procedure. > J > I can't seem to find the right parameter....or am I just using the wrong > lexical function ? >  > Eg.: >  > $ pid = f$pid("") + > $ write sys$output "This is the start..."  > $ wait 00:00:10 J > $ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time : ''f$getjpi(pid,<param>)'"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:30:56 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 9 Subject: Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi ' Message-ID: <3F74E850.B6C4DA36@fsi.net>    Norman Lastovica wrote:  > B > vms v7.3-2 (due "real soon now") includes a new lexical function: > f$delta_time that'd do just what you want.  For example: >  > Mongo TNA11:> @x > $ start=f$time() > $ wait 0:0:10 A > $ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time :    0 00:00:10.00 - > This is the elapsed time :    0 00:00:10.00  > Mongo TNA11:>  >  > pjodk wrote: > > P > > Is it possible, to get the elapsed time from a lexical function when running > > a DCL-procedure. > > L > > I can't seem to find the right parameter....or am I just using the wrong > > lexical function ? > >  > > Eg.: > >  > > $ pid = f$pid("") - > > $ write sys$output "This is the start..."  > > $ wait 00:00:10 L > > $ write sys$output "This is the elapsed time : ''f$getjpi(pid,<param>)'"  5 Actually, I think he's looking for the equivalent of:   # $ start = f$getjpi( 0, "LOGINTIM" )  $ now = f$time()) $ say f$delta_time( "''now' - ''start'" )   B This will work as long as the actual "Connect time" doesn't exceed 23:59:59.99:  8 $ start = f$cvtime( f$getjpi( 0, "LOGINTIM" ),, "time" ) $ now = f$cvtime( ,, "time" ) - $ et = f$cvtime( "''now'-''start'",, "time" )  $ write sys$output et    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:00:39 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) + Message-ID: <3F74B7C5.FEACFED4@pacbell.net>    John Vottero wrote:  > 6 > "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message' > news:3F738A49.CD1C72A0@pacbell.net... , > > Reposting to give this its own thread... > > 	 > >[snip]  > > J > > At this point I'm fairly convinced that the implementation of fees viaK > > central gateways &/or routers is not workable. So I have come up with a H > > protocol that implements e-mail in 2 phases: a meta phase and a dataH > > phase. In phase 1, all the info about the email is sent to the open,F > > listening port of the receiver. Then the link is dropped, by both.F > > Phase 2 must be initiated by the receiver, so they are in completeI > > control of the transmission and final delivery and at that point they  > > can also charge a fee. > > I > > A first draft is available at http://alphase.com/vms/FBEProtocol.html  > > I > > Serious suggestions are more than welcome, but please no nit-picking. ; > > This is a early, early draft. A suggestion, if you will  > >  > L > I like this idea A LOT!  After thinking about it, the fee based part isn'tE > even the best part.  It's the transfer of control to the receiver.    @ Thanks and, yes, I noticed that too. Control in the hands of theH receiver is ESSENTIAL. Allowing the fee is, in some ways, the gravy, butC I think necessary. I actually proposed this idea to some VCs, but I H don't think they understood it. They only seem to understand MBA written business plans, like Web Van:).    > Phase G > one should be expanded to include a list of attachments in the e-mail M > message and the format of the e-mail message.  Then the receiver can reject M > (or ignore) messages because they contain MS Word documents or they're HTML  > instead of plain text.  H This is exactly the kind of comments I was hoping for. I'll include that in the next update.    > I > Two phases can also eliminate the ability to spoof sending domains.  If L > phase one says "I have mail for you at blah.hp.com", I know it's not faked8 > because my DNS server is going to look up blah.hp.com.  E Agree. Maybe instead of the actual IP address, we should only specify G the domain name, which would force the lookup. Or maybe include both in & Phase I, to help verify their honesty.   > N > The fee based part could also work but I think it needs a lot of effort.  IfH > the sender is willing to pay a fee, they should offer it in phase 1.  B I thought of that, but I wanted the receiver the opportunity to doF whatever checking and validation first, before coming up with a price.F For Example, maybe for some senders the end user wants to charge a feeD for access, but others, no fee. Allowing this to happen in Phase II,D even give the receiver software the option to query the user in some way.C Then once the total cost is known, the receiver can make the offer.    > The L > receiver can somehow verify that it's a valid offer.  Whatever happened toI > Digital's Millicent idea?  We need a cheap, secure way to transfer very  > small amounts of money.   F I've wondered the same thing. It sounded like a good idea at the time,D but I think the problem was Digital was going through turmoil and atH that time FREE everything was all the rage. We just forgot that there is NEVER a free lunch.    >  > John Vottero   --     Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:39:20 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) + Message-ID: <3F74C0D7.EED7EB51@pacbell.net>    David Mathog wrote:  > " > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:34:31 GMT* > Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote: > J > > At this point I'm fairly convinced that the implementation of fees via2 > > central gateways &/or routers is not workable. > 	 > Me too.  > D > I thought about this a lot a while back and came to the conclusionJ > that the payment should be checked/delivered at the final email machine.K > The other alternative is to try to do it at the first machine, but that's K > a big mess in that it requires you to trust the first machine not to have D > lied about payment.  You'd need just a few really trustworthy mailG > acceptors for that to function (see below.) Safer I think to have the E > last machine, your machine, verify that financially all is in order  > before accepting the mail. > ? > This requires a complex handshake to work out though, and the = > participation of at least one third party machine to handle : > the financial transaction, plus layers of encryption notE > shown below, and it works best if email vaporizes if not delivered. A > There is no charge RELAY->RELAY, although probably there should I > be a check that the transaction authorization isn't forged (not shown.)   G Yes and I think most of this can be handled by the eosawki.org servers. F Since the receiver software will already be going here for validation,C it seems the best place to check for forgeries. Of course now we're H getting into how eosawki.org will be funded. eosawki.org needs to chargeB something for the service, but it should be a non-profit, non-lossH organization, so the charges to the Email Service Providers (ESPs) would be trivial.n   > TARGET = final mail recipient  > RELAY  = last mail relay > BANK   = handles the charge  > 4 > 1.   RELAY->TARGET = mail for "user" from "sender"R > 2.   TARGET looks up what "user" charges to receive a mail message (you set your; >        own postage rate!) and the associated BANK number,eH >        generates a very large random number, here represented by 12345C >      TARGET->RELAY = will accept for 20cents as transaction 12345c8 >        (alternatively a more complex acceptance offer:< >            will accept all but .doc and .exe at 1 cent/kb)  H I would argue, at least at this early stage, that we not go there - i.e.G "more complex acceptance offer". This is more of a sub-protocol betweenaF the RELAY and the TARGET. As I responded to John Vettero, I'll includeD the "type" of attachments in the next update, but I think that's far enough for the higher protocol.n  pW > 3.   RELAY examines message, sees if it contains authorization for at least 20 cents.m
 >      NO:7 >        RELAY->TARGET = Insufficient funds, never mind T >        RELAY  ->BANK = cancel "sender" authorization XXXXX (part of email message)T >        sender can determine that the email associated with authorization XXXXX wasO >          not delivered because the authorization was canceled.  A status codea? >          indicates why:  no such user, not enough funds, etc.s >      YES:d' >        RELAY->TARGET = offer acceptedtT > 4.   TARGET ->BANK  = accept from RELAY transaction 12345 for 20 cents and confirmW > 5.   BANK ->TARGET  = accepting from RELAY transaction 12345 for 20 cents and confirmp> > 6.   TARGET->RELAY  = pay to BANK 20 cents transaction 12345[ > 7.   RELAY  ->BANK  = release 20 cents per "sender" authorization XXXXX transaction 12345c3 > 8.   BANK ->TARGET  = transaction 12345 completedu3 > 9.   BANK  ->RELAY  = transaction 12345 completeda% > 10.  RELAY ->TARGET = delivers mailg > N > The beauty of this is that if somebody wants to send YOU mail you can finely& > control what they must pay to do so. >   H Again I would argue this is all more of a sub-protocol between the RELAY and the TARGET. G The higher level protocol need only know if the registered ESP (in youri) model the RELAY) is good for the charges.   M > The ugly part is that the BANK must handle tremendous transaction overheads 2 > over a network, and if it fails there's no mail. > M > All sorts of critical details are not worked out.  Especially regarding thec1 > security aspects of the financial transactions.   E Again, I think most of this can be handled by the eosawki.org serversp+ -BTW: eosawki = End Of Spam As We Know It. C   > I > It's easier to imagine this all working if there were a couple of trulymI > monstrous mail exchange systems (not MS EXCHANGE!) which handled all oftL > the financial stuff internally, and then just used regular SMTP to deliverR > the checked mail. The SMTP systems would then be configured to accept mail like: > 	 > ACCEPT:a >   local mail (you define)c< >   USPS monster server  (Hey, maybe they do have a future!) >   ATT/Visa monster serverV! >   SBC/Mastercard monster server- >   (short list follows)	 > REJECT:- >   all others > L > So existing mail systems could still receive mail as they do now, but spam& > free.  And local mail is still free. > H > Outgoing email would require a new financially based transport, routed% > through one of the monster servers.y > L > What's any of this this got to do with VMS?  See "monster servers", above.  D Of Course. Only VMS is mature, and secure, enough to be charged withB providing the eosawki.org  services. VMS is just assumed to be the protocol server of choice! :)e   --   Have VMS, Will Traveld Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2003 21:29:23 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)r0 Message-ID: <bl2b3j$nf0$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  b In article <20030926104930.5fb732aa.mathog@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:! >On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:34:31 GMT ) >Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote:n >u >lI >> At this point I'm fairly convinced that the implementation of fees viaM1 >> central gateways &/or routers is not workable.  >  >Me too. > C >I thought about this a lot a while back and came to the conclusionhI >that the payment should be checked/delivered at the final email machine.t  K Logically the wrong approach. Whether you send a written letter or you do a-A phone call, the originator is the cause and therefore has to pay.o  J >The other alternative is to try to do it at the first machine, but that'sJ >a big mess in that it requires you to trust the first machine not to have >lied about payment.  L No problem with my approach. Your ISP will charge you and it is up to you toN figure out who at your site sent the mails. The ISP will charge you because it" is charged by its uplink provider.  I The payment mechanisms are already established (I assume you pay for yourlM connection to the WAN already). You as the end node won't need to do anything J but pay your bill (and trust your ISP). Your ISP needs a tool to count theG messages that originate from you and other customers. Counting accepted I connections to port 25 in the direction customer to uplink is sufficient.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmannr   -- vE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452e  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot deg  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyp9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html5   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2003 21:20:44 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <bl2ajc$nf0$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  W In article <vn8pgikktp1qde@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:aJ >"Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in message+ >news:bl0roc$47b$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de...e8 >> In article <3F738A49.CD1C72A0@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes  ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:J >> >At this point I'm fairly convinced that the implementation of fees via2 >> >central gateways &/or routers is not workable. >>H >> I don't agree here. From a senders or better a mail gateway manager's >pointI >> of view it is very simple to tell whether a mail went trough or not. An >modern : >> SMTP server software should be able to log what it did. >> >eK >Yes, my SMTP server can log what it did.  Are you suggesting that I should L >send myself a bill?  Or do you know of a way that I can send the spammers a5 >bill based upon what my SMTP server was able to log?   L In case your ISP is going to charge you for the number of mail messages thatH originate from you, you may want to charge the people at your site or to) identify the one that exceeded the limit.   K >How is a router supposed to know that a connection was accepted?  A router.L >could see a packet that is asking to open a connection to port 25 but never, >see the packet that accepts the connection.  N If there are packets to port 25 that have the sync bit set you may count them.O Ok, there are attacks in the form that they set the bit without actually havingoM established a connection. But then it is still the originator who has to pay.t  L >> Again, I suggest that only large network carriers are required to pay the >fee.s >e> >Large network carriers don't send e-mail, they route packets.  N Of course, but with my approach they'll have to look at the packets. It is notO much that I require, only packets to port 25 from outside their network have too5 be considered and only the first few in a connection.E  I >The best part of a two phase e-mail protocol is that you can't spoof theeM >from domain.  If phase 1 tells me that I have mail from joe@hp.com, my phasesL >two is going to connect to hp.com to retrieve the mail.  If the mail didn'tL >actually originate from HP, then their e-mail servers will tell me that the >message doesn't exist.3  M Yes, but for example at the moment more than 80% of our mail-traffic is SWEN.AK So I have to establish a huge amount of connections to Microsoft which willqK basically double the load of our WAN connection just to know that it is allVK junk :-(  I am quite sure that the guys who have the virus on their desktop E would do everything to remove it in order to keep their bill within aeB reasonable amount if they had to pay for the messages it produced.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanni   -- rE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452e  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de,  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyd9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmla   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:15:04 -0400-* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)c) Message-ID: <3F74E479.985E3062@istop.com>f  N > >send myself a bill?  Or do you know of a way that I can send the spammers a7 > >bill based upon what my SMTP server was able to log?-  G In many jurisdictions, it would be illegal to send a bill to a customermI without the customer having specifically agreed to pay a specific amount.r  F The internet corsses many political and economic boundaries, including/ countries whose currency is not freely traded.    N Good luck sending a bill to some North Korean ISP because one of its customers has sent you an email.  M The protocol would have to include specific price negotiation with the senderN( sending a "I agree to pay" confirmation.  M Note that while for you, $0.10 may be peanuts, it may represent a HUGE amounthI of money for a library in africa trying to get locals educated, but whosewM currency is so devalued that $0.10 represents a whole week's worth of salary.n  F Look at X.25 based networks. They were more widely deployed than TCPIPM networks, and offered dial-up more than a decade before ISPs started to offer-A dial up. So, why did X.25 fail ? Because of the way they charged.   H And if you start charging to receive emails, you will find that gatewaysN to/from other networks will shut down. You might charge some gateway $0.10 forL an email, but if it gateways to a network where email is free and users have7 not agreed to pay, then who will pay for those emails ?h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:48:05 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>sI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)r' Message-ID: <3F74EC55.37F3E73C@fsi.net>g   JF Mezei wrote:s > P > > >send myself a bill?  Or do you know of a way that I can send the spammers a9 > > >bill based upon what my SMTP server was able to log?n > I > In many jurisdictions, it would be illegal to send a bill to a customer-K > without the customer having specifically agreed to pay a specific amount.y  A Signing up for FBEM would be construed as having consented to the3 charges.  H > The internet corsses many political and economic boundaries, including0 > countries whose currency is not freely traded. > P > Good luck sending a bill to some North Korean ISP because one of its customers > has sent you an email. > O > The protocol would have to include specific price negotiation with the senderc* > sending a "I agree to pay" confirmation.  H Again, signing up for FBEM would be construed as having given consent to bill for messages.  D Currency and economic issues not withstanding, there are indeed many) osbtacles that would need to be cleared. i  / How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.g   -- d David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems0 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:09:44 -0400m* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)D) Message-ID: <3F74F146.E08F3ED0@istop.com>y   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:C > Signing up for FBEM would be construed as having consented to ther
 > charges.  H What charges ? Who decides the price ? What process exists to review theL charges ? In what currency will those charges be defined ? At what time doesM currency conversion occur ? On the day of transaction. or the day the bill ist made ?  E What accomodations would there be for corporations to offer the emailuD equivalent of 800 numbers so that customers can send emails to their6 "comments", "webmaster", "tech support" etc for free ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:30:19 -0400o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)w2 Message-ID: <I0-dnXvZG5HRmeiiXTWJhg@metrocast.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageh# news:3F74F146.E08F3ED0@istop.com...  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:E > > Signing up for FBEM would be construed as having consented to thes > > charges. >S > What charges ?  5 The charges that an ISP would levy for sending email.e   > Who decides the price ?o  L Governments:  it's somewhat more in the nature of a tax, albeit one aimed atE discouraging abuse rather than raising revenue (and one way to ensuretK against abuse *by* the government - and encourage honest attempts to policerF it by ISPs - would be to define the fee as payable to the ISP, not the Feds).  "  What process exists to review the > charges ?:  L Either you trust your ISP to charge you appropriately (likely with some kind3 of internal review process), or you find a new one.   C  In what currency will those charges be defined ? At what time doeswL > currency conversion occur ? On the day of transaction. or the day the bill is > made ? >aG > What accomodations would there be for corporations to offer the emailgF > equivalent of 800 numbers so that customers can send emails to their8 > "comments", "webmaster", "tech support" etc for free ?   None.@  J Just how important those considerations are depends rather strongly on howG much is charged.  If $.01 USD per (Internet) recipient is sufficient toaL discourage bulk spam, virtually no one in the U.S.A. *except* spammers wouldF find it worth worrying about (especially if there's no charge within aJ corporate intranet, which there would be no need for - even if it used VPNJ tunneling over the Internet).  Admittedly, whether that would be too steepG for people in developing countries might be more questionable - but theoE exact details of how the conversion occurred still likely wouldn't ben
 important.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:22:16 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)*) Message-ID: <3F751074.F926415D@istop.com>    Bill Todd wrote:7 > The charges that an ISP would levy for sending email.-  J You are assuming all emails will pass through an ISP's relay SMTP server. 2 You are assuming all ISPs would charge for emails.    J Consider that many ISPs have imposed download limits and charge for excessN traffic generated. But if someone wants to send emails that exceed that limit,L he will simply switch ISP. If a country has stricter laws, the spammers will move to a different country.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:49:49 -0400e* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)e2 Message-ID: <o_KcnZtt_a9xi-iiU-KYvA@metrocast.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageu# news:3F751074.F926415D@istop.com...k > Bill Todd wrote:9 > > The charges that an ISP would levy for sending email.r > K > You are assuming all emails will pass through an ISP's relay SMTP server.h  H No, I'm just assuming that all Internet emails (i.e., those not tunneledL privately and hence invisible to the ISP) would pass through the ISP - which, is kind of what the definition of an ISP is.  4 > You are assuming all ISPs would charge for emails.  A Yes, because it would be a legal requirement for their operation.d   >t >gL > Consider that many ISPs have imposed download limits and charge for excessI > traffic generated. But if someone wants to send emails that exceed thata limit,I > he will simply switch ISP. If a country has stricter laws, the spammersg will > move to a different country.  I Email from non-conforming ISPs (which would by definition not be domesticb ISPs) would be discarded.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:45:59 -0400s/ From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net>, Subject: hobbyist lic ? Message-ID: <PBEDIAGOKEDCKCLPJKAFAEMFCBAA.hvanderw@comcast.net>s  L Does the hobbyist license include a license for Advanced Server AND Client??  C Waiting for the DECUS memembership to be updated at Montagar !!! :)u( So I can get my systems up and running !   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:22:18 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> Subject: Re: hobbyist licn9 Message-ID: <bl279t$7fkdb$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   . On 2003-09-26 20:45, "Hank Vander Waal" wrote:  N > Does the hobbyist license include a license for Advanced Server AND Client?? > E > Waiting for the DECUS memembership to be updated at Montagar !!! :).* > So I can get my systems up and running !   That's what I got today ...m  , | $ LICENSE REGISTER X500-DIRECTORY-SERVER	-! | $ LICENSE REGISTER VAXCLUSTER	-r | $ LICENSE REGISTER DFG	-' | $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-HOBBYIST	-e | $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS	-e | $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS-REM	-  | $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS-RT	-! | $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMSXP-DEV	-   | $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMSXP-RT	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER ADA	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER ADA-PDO	-, | $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-DW-CLIENT	-) | $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-SERVER	- . | $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-SERVER-USER	-, | $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-VT-CLIENT	-* | $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-VT-USER	-- | $ LICENSE REGISTER ALLIN1-MAIL-WAN-SERVER	-i | $ LICENSE REGISTER BASIC	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER C	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER CMS	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER COBOL	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER CXX-V	-" | $ LICENSE REGISTER DCE-APP-DEV	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER DCE-CDS	-# | $ LICENSE REGISTER DCE-SECURITY	-   | $ LICENSE REGISTER DCPS-OPEN	-  | $ LICENSE REGISTER DCPS-PLUS	-$ | $ LICENSE REGISTER DECDCS-SRV-VA	-! | $ LICENSE REGISTER DECMIGRATE	-e | $ LICENSE REGISTER DECRAM	-  | $ LICENSE REGISTER DECWRITE	- $ | $ LICENSE REGISTER DECWRITE-USER	-# | $ LICENSE REGISTER DESKTOP-ACMS	-. | $ LICENSE REGISTER DFS	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER DQS	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER DTM	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER DTR	-& | $ LICENSE REGISTER DTR-UI-JAPANESE	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER DVNETEND	-e | $ LICENSE REGISTER DVNETEXT	-o | $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-MOTIF	-a  $ [lots of DW-MOTIF language variants]  ) | $ LICENSE REGISTER DW-SNA-3270-TE-VMS	-b# | $ LICENSE REGISTER EXT-MATH-LIB	- & | $ LICENSE REGISTER EXT-MATH-LIB-RT	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS	-) | $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS-RT-UI-JAPANESE	-i$ | $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS-UI-HANGUL	-& | $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS-UI-JAPANESE	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS-RT	- ) | $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS-RT-UI-HANGUL	- ( | $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS-RT-UI-HANYU	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER FORTRAN	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS-RT	- ) | $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS-RT-UI-JAPANESE	-r& | $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS-UI-JAPANESE	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS3D	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS3D-RT	-s | $ LICENSE REGISTER LSE	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER MACRO64	-& | $ LICENSE REGISTER MAILBUS-400-API	-& | $ LICENSE REGISTER MAILBUS-400-MTA	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER MMOV-DV	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER MMOV-RT	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER MMS	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER NOTES	-) | $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER	-c | $ LICENSE REGISTER OPS5	-e | $ LICENSE REGISTER PASCAL	-e | $ LICENSE REGISTER PCA	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER PHIGS	-$ | $ LICENSE REGISTER PHIGS-RUNTIME	-- | $ LICENSE REGISTER PHIGS-RUNTIME-UI-JAPAN	-e( | $ LICENSE REGISTER PHIGS-UI-JAPANESE	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER RMSJNL	-o | $ LICENSE REGISTER RTR-CL	-d | $ LICENSE REGISTER RTR-SVR	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER SQL-DEV	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER SSU	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER UCX	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER VAXSET	-t& | $ LICENSE REGISTER VMS-UI-JAPANESE	-! | $ LICENSE REGISTER VMSCLUSTER	-a | $ LICENSE REGISTER VOLSHAD	- | $ LICENSE REGISTER X25	-! | $ LICENSE REGISTER X25-CLIENT	-o* | $ LICENSE REGISTER X500-ADMIN-FACILITY	-  / I can't see any Advanced Server license at all.e   Michaelt   -- e; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:47:29 GMTf- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>  Subject: Re: hobbyist lico< Message-ID: <le4db.4243$iT4.3106038@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Hank Vander Waal wrote:iN > Does the hobbyist license include a license for Advanced Server AND Client?? > E > Waiting for the DECUS memembership to be updated at Montagar !!! :) * > So I can get my systems up and running !  9 The license for Advanced Server is included with OpenVMS..  H The client license is not available on the Hobbyist program, presumably  because of royalty issues.  I I am not current or in the chain of those decisions, but the last that I eI knew, Microsoft licensed the code to ATT, and ATT licensed it to DIGITAL.p  ; Those licensing agreements may preclude a hobbyist program.t   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only"   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Sep 2003 01:54:47 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.como Subject: Re: hobbyist licE, Message-ID: <bl2ql722dl5@enews2.newsguy.com>  , John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:; > The license for Advanced Server is included with OpenVMS.   < Are you sure?  I thought you needed the correct NAS license.   	Zaner   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2003 11:06:39 -0700" From: thick_guy_9@yahoo.com (AMIT)@ Subject: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged?= Message-ID: <7e127df6.0309261006.6f6febf9@posting.google.com>    Hi guys,D I have a disk with little freespace. would like to do a purge (purge
 [...]*.*).B But before I do that is there some way I can determine the list ofE files and the size that will be deleted *BEFORE* I issue the command?    Thanks AS  F P.S: Sorry, that my mailID kept bouncing all incomming INFO-VAX mails.E I am being pounded by spammers. Got kicked out of RDB mailing list asa well :-(   ------------------------------   Date: 26 SEP 2003 19:18:18 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> D Subject: Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged?2 Message-ID: <26SEP03.19181832@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  : In a previous article, thick_guy_9@yahoo.com (AMIT) wrote:
 > Hi guys,F > I have a disk with little freespace. would like to do a purge (purge > [...]*.*).D > But before I do that is there some way I can determine the list ofG > files and the size that will be deleted *BEFORE* I issue the command?) >  j > Thanks > AS >   H > P.S: Sorry, that my mailID kept bouncing all incomming INFO-VAX mails.G > I am being pounded by spammers. Got kicked out of RDB mailing list asv
 > well :-(   Hop over to   2   http://www.agh.cc.kcl.ac.uk/files/vms/vms_share/  B and get nope.PACKAGE.  The "NOPE" stands for NO PurgE.  Of course,4 you'll need a little disk space to unpack the files.  @ Or, if you plan to purge all except the most recent version, try      DIR/EXCLUDE=*.*;/SIZE=ALL     Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVmH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:16:01 -0500 1 From: "Grealy, Patrick" <PGrealy@sph.uth.tmc.edu>=D Subject: RE: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged?K Message-ID: <40B30BA5E139F648B2EA60E6AE3A7B266887F2@sphnt3.sph.uth.tmc.edu>o  F The nope.package seems to be a well-stocked utility that would serve =@ your needs but I don't think that $dir/exclude=3D*.*; will work.H The short proc below is a quick-and-dirty solution if you're interested:  F $! count files and allocated blocks that would be cleared by purging = files.E $! Usage: @files_to_be_purged file-specification [default=3D[...]*.*]f $!I $!                                                       P. Grealy, Sep =r 2003 $!F $! This program may be distributed and changed freely, including the = above.J $! The author does not accept any responsibilities for any damage due to = usey $! or misuse of this program.i $! $f_to_be_p_ver=3Df$verify(0) $on error then goto err_exit  $on control_y then goto err_exit $fil_count=3D0 $tot_alloc=3D0 $if p1 .eqs. ""m $thena $	fspec=3D"[...]*.*;*" $else  $	fspec=3Df$parse(p1,"*.*;*")' $endif $fnam1=3Df$search(fspec,1)2 $loop:fnam2=3Df$extr(0,f$loc(";",fnam1),fnam1)+";" $if fnam1 .nes. f$search(fnam2)( $then G $! -- remove the next line to reduce screen output; totals will still =  displayt8 $	dir/size=3Dalloc/nohead/notrail/wid=3Dfile=3D70 'fnam1 $	fil_count=3Dfil_count + 1-- $	tot_alloc=3Dtot_alloc + f$file(fnam1,"alq")m $endif $fnam1=3Df$search(fspec,1)! $if fnam1 .nes. "" then goto loopmC $write sys$output fil_count," files,",tot_alloc," blocks allocated"i1 $err_exit:if f_to_be_p_ver .eq. 1 then set verify2   Pat G.   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Dave Greenwood [mailto:greenwoodde@ornl.gov]* > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 2:18 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0F > Subject: Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged? >=20 >=20 > Hop over to=20 >=204 >   http://www.agh.cc.kcl.ac.uk/files/vms/vms_share/ >=20D > and get nope.PACKAGE.  The "NOPE" stands for NO PurgE.  Of course,6 > you'll need a little disk space to unpack the files. >=20B > Or, if you plan to purge all except the most recent version, try >=20& >    DIR/EXCLUDE=3D*.*;/SIZE=3DALL =20 >=20 > Dave > --------------; > Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV B > Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak=20 > for myself >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:18:39 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>tD Subject: Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged?' Message-ID: <3F74E56F.FA0D00CA@fsi.net>i   AMIT wrote:, > 
 > Hi guys,F > I have a disk with little freespace. would like to do a purge (purge > [...]*.*).D > But before I do that is there some way I can determine the list ofG > files and the size that will be deleted *BEFORE* I issue the command?t  F If you're only gonna keep one version, then you can compare the outputH of DIRECTORY [000000...] to DIRECTORY [000000...]*.*;. DIFFERENCES would@ be useful, if you have enough freespace for DIRECTORY/OUTPUT=...   --   David J. DachteraB dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/3   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:05:29 -0400.* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>D Subject: Re: How to get a list of files and size that can be purged?) Message-ID: <3F74F047.2931EBB3@istop.com>    AMIT wrote:wD > But before I do that is there some way I can determine the list ofG > files and the size that will be deleted *BEFORE* I issue the command?o  ( Not 100% what you want, but very simple:  * DIR/SIZE=ALL/GRAND dka100:[000000...]*.*;* then) DIR/SIZE=ALL/GRAND dka100:[000000...]*.*;a  M the first one will calculate total space used by all versioons and the numberi	 of files. G the second one calculates total space used by most recent version only.a  N If you subtract the total space given by both commands, you will know how much( space would be freed by a purge command.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:58:32 GMTt; From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonspam@nothp.com>i Subject: Re: How to uninstall?) Message-ID: <3F748C58.135FB260@nothp.com>   J vmsinstal does not have an "uninstall" feature.  Unless the netlib product? has one, you must manually remove the files from your system...    Charliee     Romax MANIAX wrote:d   > Hi gurus,o >VH > I've installed Netlib on my super cool VAX4000-500 rackable model with > vmsinstal.D > Now I want to uninstall it, can you please tell me how to do that? >n > Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2003 18:42 CDTa' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: How to uninstall?- Message-ID: <26SEP200318420866@gerg.tamu.edu>t  ? Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonspam@nothp.com> writes...p }Romax MANIAX wrote: }  }> Hi gurus, }>I }> I've installed Netlib on my super cool VAX4000-500 rackable model withm
 }> vmsinstal.hE }> Now I want to uninstall it, can you please tell me how to do that?d }> }> Thanks in advance.s } K }vmsinstal does not have an "uninstall" feature.  Unless the netlib productw@ }has one, you must manually remove the files from your system... }  }Charlie  F Note that VMSINSTAL does create an xxx.VMI_DATA file in the SYS$UPDATE& directory which tells you what it did.   This info could be helpfull.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:21:45 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>p! Subject: Re: HP is top chip buyernI Message-ID: <Zs%cb.86526$Lnr1.53285@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>s   Keith Parris wrote:r% > From HP World News, Sept. 25, 2003:  >e > HP top chip buyert > B > HP was the top purchaser of semiconductors in 2002, buying chipsB > worth more than $10.7 billion.  HP was also the largest buyer ofB > DRAM, microprocessors, logic and application specific integratedA > circuits, according to a report by market intelligence provideri
 > iSuppli. >W >eL http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=Cp2_fqeiendqYneHLD2XLDhrqywn RyxjKsqh >aG > I'm sure HP gets some good discounts with all that purchasing volume.e    E Maybe they can put some of the money they save into a VMS advertisingaE campaign. Or are all the savings spent on hairspray and manicures for E carly(tm) for when she goes on-stage to talk about Microsoft Windows?r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:57:12 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: HP to drop hpux?c' Message-ID: <3F74E068.68E56D6D@fsi.net>s   Bob Koehler wrote: > X > In article <3EFC9532.327D971D@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > >0L > > If, on the other hand, Linus spend months navigating through the DigitalR > > management maze to find someone who would finally agree to lend a alphastationP > > because Linus really wanted to make a 64 bit version of Linux, then TorvaldsP > > deserves 200% of the credit since he would have ported it *despite* Digital. > > >    I cannot imaging Linus Torvalds operating in that manner.  F It's hard to imagine DEC / Q / hp operating in the manner they do, butF it happens every day, and every day it just gets deeper and deeper and deeper and ...   -- l David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:46:34 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>? Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead. I've got your back."n4 Message-ID: <1030926234152.403A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  = On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:o   > Simon Clubley wrote: > > In article <bkupkb$o2c$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > >  > >>Simon Clubley wrote: > >>R > >>>As for Sun, the left hand does not seem to know what the right hand is doing.P > >>>First they finance SCO in the form of license deals (read SCO's latest 10-QM > >>>for details; you will find it on the SEC's website), and then they startn > >>>promoting Linux...  > >>>  > >>; > >>My comiserations, not being able to tell the differencet= > >>between a technology licensing agreement and a conspiracyi* > >>theory must be very difficult for you. > >> > >  > > Q > > Ignoring the personal comments, and concentrating on the issue, there seem tofN > > be two main positions. The first one, mainly taken by Sun, is that the SCOM > > licensing offered an opportunity for Sun to just sort out some technology . > > licensing issues as Andrew mentions above. > >  > @ > Sun has an operating system called Solaris x86, SCO also has a@ > commercial OS that runs on x86. SCO has a whole load of driverC > source/IP one big drawback to Solaris x86 has been its relativelyk  > small device driver portfolio. > M > > The other position is that the SCO license offered Sun a way to finance a N > > campaign against Linux without Sun having to get directly involved in that
 > > campaign.' > >  >  > Ok.t > A > So who is the largest contributor to the OpenSource community ?f > > > It isn't HP, it isn't despite all the noise IBM its Sun by a > rather wide margin.i > B > So Sun's corporate policy is to release our a huge raft of IP toC > the OpenSource community that totally dwarfs any other commercialt > contributor. > A > Java, OpenOffice, Grid, Chillsoft, CubicSpline, chunks of Gnomea. > IP for Apache, OpenSLL, NFS, LinCat etc etc. > B > The fact that no one is suing us for doing this is just an added > bonus. > A > Take one donation Java without it most of the x86/linux servers 2 > in investment banking would have nothing to run. > B > At the same time we have developed a desktop environment working@ > with SuSE which relies on Linux as the OS if its hosted on x86 > which it mostly will be. > ? > And you think that despite all this we are actively trying to  > kill OpenSource/Linux !!!! > A > Most people mistake HP and IBM's certainty about Linux support,>> > its a certainty based on not having any other alternative to? > offer. If you like and respect that fine but it is their onlyi- > option in the small 2-4 way systems market.y > ? > If you want a sub 7K dual CPU server that doesn't run windowst? > and this is a very price sensitive market then neither HP nort> > IBM can touch that space with anything other than Linux/x86. > C > Both PA and Power based systems are too expensive, PA for exampleo
 > 2 CPU >20K.g > + > If you want a sub 30K 4 CPU server ditto.d  D Why would they care one iota about how many CPU's it has?  Shouldn't@ people be concerned with price and performance, whether it's one CPU or a hundred?   ? > Sun is the only vendor that can offer a RISC/UNIX server that @ > competes at these price points so we have an alternative don'tB > mistake that for a relative dislike of Linux vs Solaris comparedB > with HP and IBM because if either vendors could build HP-PA/HPUXG > or AIX/Power based boxes at these price points than it is an absolutetG > certainty that they would be offering them as an alternative as well.l >  > Q > > I happen to currently believe in the latter position. However, when the trial O > > starts (or sooner, if SCO collapses before the trial) then everything abouttJ > > SCO will be examined in every small detail, so then we will know which  > > position is the correct one. > >  > # > You are entitled to your opinion.t > 	 > Regardss > Andrew Harrisone
 > > Simon.   -- w John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:00:19 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")1 Subject: Re: Linux is the favourite hacker target 6 Message-ID: <00A267AE.387FBD68@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  u In article <Pine.GSO.4.58-035.0309261128550.2751@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>, Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:T >eA >> why don't you apologize for being such a dope yourself and not-= >> reading your own postings because the cert you posted justrB >> validated my claims ... "ACCESS VIOLATION" ... and that is goodA >> that that particular process died because I will take that any ? >> day instead of thing allowing you in and do what you want in0C >> the system ... that is called SECURITY Andrew, of course you andcD >> all the other brain dead unix/linux/windoze users are conditioned? >> to reboots and the patch of the day club bit so you wouldn'tv  >> understand the concept ... :) >> >ME >One of the things which has never ceased to impress me about so many A >VMS people is how closely they resemble micro$oft users in theirhF >vitriolic attitude toward _anything_ else. I have watched through theE >90s as VMS slowly disappeared, and at almost every turn in the road, G >where VMS people might have found an ally in the un*x community (sinceoI >by and large, un*x is not like most VMS people imagine it to be, and theuF >things VMS people tend to boast about endlessly are pretty common andG >expected in the un*x world as well), instead of taking the opportunitySH >to be friendly with the un*x people and join efforts, so to speak, theyD >almost invariably visit the most arrogant, usually misinformed, andB >affrontive flames at the very people who _do_ know and appreciateB >what theyre talking about, as opposed to the legions of microsoftK >weenies (and nowadays often linux weenies too) who have no clue and reallyoJ >_could_ use some education about what a real computing environment is andJ >what to demand of it. I've been impressed with how well the VMS communityB >has done at alienating themselves completely from the rest of theF >community of people who use and demand 'real computers' over the past$ >decade that I've been on the scene.  I Bob Ceculski's a bad example of this, since his endless cheerleading has uJ succeeded in alienating him from a significant number of VMS _supporters_, at least here on comp.os.vms.   H On the other hand, he's arguing with a guy from Sun who generally arguesH about revenue, market share, profit forecasts, etc, and who hasn't - as J far as I know - ever adequately explained why he's even on this newsgroup.F (Not that it isn't his absolute right as a netizen to be here, but it  seems odd.)a  H Me, I'm a VMS system manager and I used to be a contributing editor for A Unix/World magazine (when it existed), and wrote favorably about 8L Linux/xBSD systems for MicroTimes (when _it_ existed), slipping in favorable" mentions of VMS where appropriate.  I Horses for courses, I think, and the point is to use workable systems forrG particular jobs, which should put all the "real computer" people on theyC same side.  (I just wish Digital/Compaq/HP agreed with me about VMSiD being a spectacularly-good departmental server and would price it toH compete with Windows-oriented departmental servers, rather than focusing& all their efforts on the data center.)   -- Alana -- ?O ===============================================================================y0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056uM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025xO ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2003 20:12:50 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1 Subject: Re: Linux is the favourite hacker targete9 Message-ID: <bl26k1$6n7hm$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>.  . In article <06Xcb.5$1A2.4964@news.uswest.net>,9 	"Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam> writes:  > G > Windows doesn't do this - the virus or worm does.  You have obviouslyhM > forgotten Robert Morris' virus that brought a large part of the internet tooM > its knees.  It was written on Unix and attacked SunOS and early versions ofpN > Solaris, which at the time had the bulk of the servers on the internet.  The  G As you admit below, The Morris Worm attacked sendmail which has nothingnL to do with the operating system.  Most of the problem was due to complacencyI as evidenced by the fact that for at lesast 5 years after that point many E commercial systems still shipped with the same error-prone version ofc1 sendmail with the same bad default configuration.a  M > few windows machines on the net at the time weren't affected.  Morris' wormdF > propagated through the debug mode of sendmail, which was the defaultM > configuration at the time from almost all vendors.  It could just as easilyoF > scanned for open ports and propagated on any port.  The point is, anK > improperly configured server, wether it be Windows, Unix, Linux, and yes,eN > VMS, is vulnerable to a port scanning virus that is written for that OS.  ByJ > the way, the latest MS targeting virus is propagating via NNTP, which is# > almost univerally hosted on Unix.h  D Not hardly.  News Systems running NNTP ar available for Windows, VMS% and I am sure other mor obscure OSes.s   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:10:51 -0400e* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: New round of cuts at HP) Message-ID: <3F74812A.AAAC89B4@istop.com>c   Bob Ceculski wrote: G > if they were smart they would buy TCPware which is still based on thed9 > VMS kernel and runs crisper and replace UCX with it ...    Or standardise on Multinet.c  I When one considers HP's preference for outsourcing, perhaps their plan isiM simply to convince Process to move to India, which would then qualify them astK an official outsourcer for VMS' TCPIP stack (does HP contract with entitiesi not in India these days ?).   N Then, VMS would come with a "basic" version of Multinet without some bells andD whistles, and Process could still sell add-ons to the basic product.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:44:47 GMTr& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> Subject: Re: Nice touch, AMD1 Message-ID: <PG0db.5802$E24.702@news.cpqcorp.net>k  P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:E > I may be missing a point here but most 32 bit OS's support multiplesD > 32 bit apps each using ~4GB RAM but with total available memory of > >4GB.a  E > Linux x86, Solaris x86, multiple variants of Windows, Dynix FreeBSD  > etc all support this.e  C > Older 32 bit versions of RISC/UNIX OE's also do the same, Solarisl > 2.x, AIX, HP-UX 10 etc.e  @ I'm afraid that at least some of your understanding is in error.  F While it is indeed the case that HP-PA (aka PA-RISC) has been "64-bit"E from the beginning in 1986 or 1987 (I forget when FCS happened to be,pD it was slightly before my HP time) (PA 1.0 having a segmented 64-bitA virtual address space consisting of a 32-bit spaceid and a 32-bitM? offset, the upper two bits of the offset selecting the space-idaE register from which was determined the correct spaceid) the HP-UX 10 vA operating system did not make use of the feature to the extent itg6 would enable using more than 4GB of RAM in the system.  F Only "64-bit" versions of the HP-UX kernel would make use of more thanE 4GB or RAM in a system. The first of those was HP-UX 11, FCS NovembernB 1997.  I do know that MPE/iX, (MPE/XL) make extensive use of "longE pointers" or what it called globalanyptr's, but I do not know if they D had support in their "32-bit" kernel for using more than 4GB of RAM.E I'm sure that the curious and motivated could ask in comp.sys.hp.mpe.c  B I also do not know when in their history the PA-RISC CPUs had moreF than 32-bits of physical addressing, but do know that to have happened@ by the time of the 'PA-8000' (PCX-U, the first "PA 2.0" CPU withB 64-bit offsets) CPU which I believed shipped somewhere around late 1994 or so, perhaps 1995.t  A I suspect that some searching the web with google would find moreJ' about the history of PA-RISC and HP-UX.f  B I'll have to leave it to others to validate/correct the assertionsF about "32-bit" AIX and Solaris SPARC kernels.  My (possibly incorrect)D understanding until this time at least was that the only place where7 "32-bit" kernels did > 4GB of RAM was in the x86 space.e  
 rick jones -- .H Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:00:06 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGM Subject: Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same programt0 Message-ID: <00A267BE.F8CFAA19@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <rYXcb.2$yM6.340@psinet-eu-nl>, "Neil Bush" <neil@NOSPAMbush.clara.net> writes: >Larry Kilgallen wrote:?9 >> In article <AxXcb.1$yM6.328@psinet-eu-nl>, "Neil Bush"3& >> <neilNOSPAM@bush.clara.net> writes: >>G >>> I want, from within Fortran preferably, to only allow users to onlye >>> run one.E >>> instance of a particular program. That is, many users may run the< >>> program at. >>> any one time, but not the same user twice. >>G >> I would suggest taking out an exclusive mode lock which includes thelE >> username in the lock name.  Make the program fail if it cannot geta >> the lock. >rL >Thanks for the replies, but I was more hoping to be able to say to the userJ >"You are already running this program, sod off", or words to that effect,: >rather than simply preventing the program running at all.   What's stopping you?    # If you can't acquire the lock then:   9   TYPE *,'You are already running this program, sod off!'h   --L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:16:06 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")M Subject: Re: Preventing a user running multiple instances of the same program 6 Message-ID: <00A267B0.6CCEAB0A@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Z In article <rYXcb.2$yM6.340@psinet-eu-nl>, "Neil Bush" <neil@NOSPAMbush.clara.net> writes: >Larry Kilgallen wrote:w9 >> In article <AxXcb.1$yM6.328@psinet-eu-nl>, "Neil Bush"h& >> <neilNOSPAM@bush.clara.net> writes: >>G >>> I want, from within Fortran preferably, to only allow users to onlyc >>> run onefE >>> instance of a particular program. That is, many users may run thet >>> program at. >>> any one time, but not the same user twice. >>G >> I would suggest taking out an exclusive mode lock which includes therE >> username in the lock name.  Make the program fail if it cannot geth >> the lock. >tL >Thanks for the replies, but I was more hoping to be able to say to the userJ >"You are already running this program, sod off", or words to that effect,: >rather than simply preventing the program running at all.  N Then make the program not fail, but say "You are already running this program,J sod off."  The lock in question isn't locking access to the program; it's L serving as a semaphore, so it's up to the program to act appropriately if it can't get the exclusive lock.n   -- Alan- -- oO =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056iM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025lO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:03:42 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>bM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?e+ Message-ID: <3F74C68E.D70964E4@pacbell.net>i   Paul Sture wrote:e > X > In article <3F7336E0.4E539F00@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > > John Vottero wrote::P > >> There is no need to be concerned about NAT.  This proposal is a replacementN > >> for SMTP servers.  They already need special consideration when used with& > >> NAT, as do all listening servers. > >oQ > > Yes, there is need to be concerned with NAT.  The sending server doesn't knowwO > > what its real IP is, and thus is unable in the SMTP discussions to tell the F > > receiving SMTP server "call me back at nn.nn.nn.nn on port xxxxx". > >t > G > But it does know the IP of the mail gateway(s). Would that be enough?iG > Since we are talking about a new protocol, new fields could be added,s; > such as "this is the IP address at which I can be found".  > K > Then there's the problem of proxy servers. I honestly don't know how theyoG > work for SMTP, but as an example of the potential problem here I onceeF > came across a website which wouldn't allow me to register my detailsG > because the IP address at the end of the transaction didn't match theW > one it started with. > L > > Furthermore, the whole concept of changing SMTP the way you propose willP > > simply fail. In any upgrade, you must maintain upward compatibility. So yourJ > > fancy SMTP server will require to continue to support the conventional) > > standard for many many years to come.i > H > Without trawling back through the rest of the thread, I would envisage9 > both protocols running in parallel for quite some time.y  G I agree 100%. This protocol is NOT SMTP, it's a new e-mail protocol, so2G you could, and probably would, serve both, until SMTP fell into disuse.    --     Have VMS, Will Travelr Wire paladin, San Franciscon   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:54:43 GMTi' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> M Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ? + Message-ID: <3F74C473.6919A7B8@pacbell.net>T   JF Mezei wrote:	 >  > John Vottero wrote:MG > > There's no need to be concerned because an SMTP server has the same N > > requirements as the new and improved server. If someone has an SMTP serverN > > behind a NAT router, they've already jumped through the hoops they need to > > jump through.I > O > With current SMTP, the NAT router only needs to define where calls to port 25 N > go. With the "new" system, one would need to switch the "default port" to goK > to that machine instead of another one since you wouldn't know which portR% > would be used for an incoming call.   F As I see it, this whole NAT/firewall thing is an implementation issue.E If your domain's routers could not make dynamic port allocations, viaCG ifo supplied from your servers, your implementation would just call forNH a single port to be used, say 125. Then you tell your router to send allC inoming port 125 requests to the server you like. The sender's port H assignment (i.e. When your ready, contact me on port 1398, using mail ID? JWK91ST) may, or may not, be a random assignment. In the better B implementations it would be, but the protocol doesn't call for it.     -- R   Have VMS, Will TravelD Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:41:53 GMTD' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> M Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?S* Message-ID: <3F74CF7F.9D265CA@pacbell.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:F > Y > In article <vn5s22g2nrds0e@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:E. > ><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message& > >news:bkuhsq$dk3$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...: > >> In article <3F71D664.D92AAC37@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes" > ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: > >> >% > >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:T > >> >>	= > >> >> In article <3F70934A.3C36DD45@pacbell.net>, Don SykesI" > ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:	 > >> >> >S > >> >L > >> >At this point I'm fairly convinced that the implementation of fees viaM > >> >central gateways &/or routers is not workable. So I have come up with aBJ > >> >protocol that implements e-mail in 2 phases: a meta phase and a dataJ > >> >phase. In phase 1, all the info about the email is sent to the open,H > >> >listening port of the receiver. Then the link is dropped, by both.H > >> >Phase 2 must be initiated by the receiver, so they are in completeK > >> >control of the transmission and final delivery and at that point theyA > >> >can also charge a fee. > >> >K > >> >A first draft is available at http://alphase.com/vms/FBEProtocol.html  > >> >K > >> >Serious suggestions are more than welcome, but please no nit-picking.U= > >> >This is a early, early draft. A suggestion, if you will  > >> > > >>M > >> I haven't had a chance to look at your link yet but one thing strikes meT > >aboutI > >> your suggestion straight away. How are you going to deal with Natt'dE > >clients ?J > >> If you drop the connection then there is no guarantee that the public
 > >addressN > >> that the sender first used will still be valid when the receiver tries to > >> reopen the connection.f > >> > >rN > >There is no need to be concerned about NAT.  This proposal is a replacementL > >for SMTP servers.  They already need special consideration when used with$ > >NAT, as do all listening servers. > >3 > >7 > Q > It does matter because your example which uses a client on the 10 address spaceeQ > (10.11.12.1) contacting a server on the 21.22 network will not work in general.e > M > (As an aside the address of the receiver 21.22.0.0 is invalid since it is a H > network address - you should never use .0 or .255 in the final octet).   Good point. Will fix.m   > N > The 10 address is a private address hence must use NAT to contact systems on > the public internet. >   H I don't think your seeing this correctly. Which tells me I'll need to be clearer in the next update. A This protocol is designed to be used between domain Email ServicedD Providers (ESPs), which must be resolveable thru a DNS lookup, which/ IIRC MUST be a staic IP or range of static IPs.J  Q > So in the real world you have a client on a small home network connecting to an . > ISP using dynamic NAT with port overloading. > Q > 10.11.12.1  is the clients real address and it opens a connection from its port O > 32100 this is mapped to  21.22.5.20 port 7521  on the public side of his homesR > NAT/firewall. (21.22.5.20 is the single public address given out to this user by > his ISP).r > P > This connection connects to the IPS's receiver on 21.22.0.10 (10 rather than 0/ > to make it a valid address) for your phase 1.o > R > Negotiation proceeds as you describe on your link and the receiver sends back toH > say it will contact the sender on port 1398. Then the link is dropped. > " > 10.11.12.1 listens on port 1398. > P > Receiver (21.22.0.10) attempts to open connection to  21.22.5.20 on port 1398.G > Attempt fails. There is  either no entry in the NAT mapping table foryP > 21.22.5.20 port 1398  or if there is it would be accidental and might point at5 > another machine or port on the user's home network.l > The connection is dropped. > N > With dynamic NAT with port overloading (which is the most common form of NATO > used on home networks where the home user has multiple machines hiding behindgP > one external address) there is no preservation of port numbers - unless a portL > number has been placed in the NAT mapping table by an internally initiatedN > connection to an external machine having been made or by the user explicitlyL > setting up a manual mapping then an externally initiated connection cannot > be made to it. >  > Your system falls apart.  F Only if you're not the registered owner of the domain you're trying to implement this on. gG Basically, if you can run your own SMTP service (ie direct inbound port H 25 connections to find their way to port 25 on a specific computer), you can also run this.H As I said in a previous response, this is an implementation issue, which0 will be resolved differently by different users.   -- e   Have VMS, Will Travels Wire paladin, San Francisco*   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:20:33 -0400i  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>M Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?,4 Message-ID: <1030926220143.403A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  3 On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:i  Y > In article <vn5s22g2nrds0e@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:@. > ><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message& > >news:bkuhsq$dk3$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...: > >> In article <3F71D664.D92AAC37@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes" > ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: > >> >% > >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:r > >> >> = > >> >> In article <3F70934A.3C36DD45@pacbell.net>, Don Sykesr" > ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:	 > >> >> >i > >> >L > >> >At this point I'm fairly convinced that the implementation of fees viaM > >> >central gateways &/or routers is not workable. So I have come up with aaJ > >> >protocol that implements e-mail in 2 phases: a meta phase and a dataJ > >> >phase. In phase 1, all the info about the email is sent to the open,H > >> >listening port of the receiver. Then the link is dropped, by both.H > >> >Phase 2 must be initiated by the receiver, so they are in completeK > >> >control of the transmission and final delivery and at that point they  > >> >can also charge a fee. > >> >K > >> >A first draft is available at http://alphase.com/vms/FBEProtocol.htmla > >> >K > >> >Serious suggestions are more than welcome, but please no nit-picking. = > >> >This is a early, early draft. A suggestion, if you willf > >> > > >>M > >> I haven't had a chance to look at your link yet but one thing strikes mef > >aboutI > >> your suggestion straight away. How are you going to deal with Natt'do > >clients ?J > >> If you drop the connection then there is no guarantee that the public
 > >addressN > >> that the sender first used will still be valid when the receiver tries to > >> reopen the connection.e > >> > > N > >There is no need to be concerned about NAT.  This proposal is a replacementL > >for SMTP servers.  They already need special consideration when used with$ > >NAT, as do all listening servers. > >r > >= > Q > It does matter because your example which uses a client on the 10 address space Q > (10.11.12.1) contacting a server on the 21.22 network will not work in general.p > M > (As an aside the address of the receiver 21.22.0.0 is invalid since it is a H > network address - you should never use .0 or .255 in the final octet). > N > The 10 address is a private address hence must use NAT to contact systems on > the public internet. > R > So in the real world you have a client on a small home network connecting to an . > ISP using dynamic NAT with port overloading. > R > 10.11.12.1  is the clients real address and it opens a connection from its port O > 32100 this is mapped to  21.22.5.20 port 7521  on the public side of his homewR > NAT/firewall. (21.22.5.20 is the single public address given out to this user by > his ISP).r > P > This connection connects to the IPS's receiver on 21.22.0.10 (10 rather than 0/ > to make it a valid address) for your phase 1.e > R > Negotiation proceeds as you describe on your link and the receiver sends back toH > say it will contact the sender on port 1398. Then the link is dropped. > " > 10.11.12.1 listens on port 1398. > P > Receiver (21.22.0.10) attempts to open connection to  21.22.5.20 on port 1398.G > Attempt fails. There is  either no entry in the NAT mapping table forrP > 21.22.5.20 port 1398  or if there is it would be accidental and might point at5 > another machine or port on the user's home network.p > The connection is dropped. > N > With dynamic NAT with port overloading (which is the most common form of NATO > used on home networks where the home user has multiple machines hiding behindeP > one external address) there is no preservation of port numbers - unless a portL > number has been placed in the NAT mapping table by an internally initiatedO > connection to an external machine having been made or by the user explicitly fM > setting up a manual mapping then an externally initiated connection cannot a > be made to it. >  > Your system falls apart.  J I don't think I understand the point of the second, reverse connection[1],> but in any case, there is an alternate method that might work.  F Instead of negotiating a port number for the 2nd connection, you couldB use a well-known port that the NAT firewall forwards to the clientB system, and negotiate a magic key (perhaps encrypted).  The clientE listens on the well-known port, the server establishes the call-back,tA and sends the key.  The client can accept the key and continue or # reject it and close the connection.l  A Both ends could be behind NAT'ing firewalls, and this would stilltC work, since the client could accept connections from anywhere, thenc? immediately close those that didn't provide a valid outstandingD key.  A Both sides would know who they were talking to because of the key?	 exchange.D  A If you have multiple systems behind a NAT firewall, each could becA permanently assigned a port, which would be port-forwarded to its E well-known port, and that port could be included in the negotiations,bB so the server would know what port to connect to.  That port couldA be statically configured in the NAT box and the client system, or 9 could be configured dynamicly using an extension to DHCP.e  B [1] Is ths second reverse connection just so the client and serverB can go away for awhile to meditate on whether to allow the messageB to propagate, or is it so the actual data message can be postponedA to a less busy time, if necessary (middle of the night), or is it-G just to allow the server some measure of "control" over the connection?"C If the last, why can't it just send a "no way" message at any pointZD during the negotiations, and close the socket?  If a spamming clientB is persistent, the server could just put it on a local black-list,/ and refuse all connections from it for a while.e   -- c John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:52:09 +0200n) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> ! Subject: Re: Quorum DIsk Questionp6 Message-ID: <3f74a6fb$0$58699$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Keith Parris wrote:pb > "Jeff" <dirkdiggler@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bl0r8v$3g6$1@titan.btinternet.com>... > K >>Does a quorum disk have to be a JBOD, or can it be a RAID1 volume on youre >>I/O Subsystem ?  >  > I > A quorum disk can indeed be a controller-based mirrorset (RAID1 array).e  I Indeed, it can. But what do you gain by this? In my opinion, if you want -I to use a quorum disk at all, it should be a very small disk which is not dF used for anything else. It could be the smallest possible partition a  HSxxx controller can offer.o  E But the best solution by far is a quorum member in stead of a quorum iD disk. This will greatly improve your cluster stability and decrease   cluster state transition delays.  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2003 11:06:52 -0700" From: mullins_david@bah.com (Dave)/ Subject: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windowst= Message-ID: <d4436197.0309261006.31b0f757@posting.google.com>v  E We have a large number of VMS Backup tapes that contain VMS savesets.oE We no longer have a VMS system or access to one but we still have the D tape reader. Thanks to some software from Novasoft we have been ableC to transfer the *.bck files from those tapes to our Windows system.rB Now we are looking for a way to read those saveset and recover theF files from the archives. Is there a windows application out there that? can read those files and make them available to a windows user?   C We are primarily a windows shop but we have access to Linux and SunI> boxes if necessary, though that would certainly complicate theF process. But as I said earlier the files are already on a Windows 2000E system and we would like to keep them inside our windows environment..   Thanks,  Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:03:28 -0700:# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>>3 Subject: RE: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windowsw9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEBHICAA.tom@kednos.com>   B Purchasing a PWS for less than $1000 is by far your best solution.   >-----Original Message----- * >From: Dave [mailto:mullins_david@bah.com]* >Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 11:07 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0 >Subject: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows >a >eF >We have a large number of VMS Backup tapes that contain VMS savesets.F >We no longer have a VMS system or access to one but we still have theE >tape reader. Thanks to some software from Novasoft we have been ablenD >to transfer the *.bck files from those tapes to our Windows system.C >Now we are looking for a way to read those saveset and recover thenG >files from the archives. Is there a windows application out there thatr@ >can read those files and make them available to a windows user? >hD >We are primarily a windows shop but we have access to Linux and Sun? >boxes if necessary, though that would certainly complicate the G >process. But as I said earlier the files are already on a Windows 2000 F >system and we would like to keep them inside our windows environment. >t	 >Thanks, i >Dave  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.u; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).'A >Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003  >  ---n& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 9/11/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:18:39 +0200L( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>3 Subject: Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows 9 Message-ID: <bl2016$7d24n$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>h  1 "Dave" <mullins_david@bah.com> schreef in berichta7 news:d4436197.0309261006.31b0f757@posting.google.com...pG > We have a large number of VMS Backup tapes that contain VMS savesets.eG > We no longer have a VMS system or access to one but we still have the F > tape reader. Thanks to some software from Novasoft we have been ableE > to transfer the *.bck files from those tapes to our Windows system.pD > Now we are looking for a way to read those saveset and recover theH > files from the archives. Is there a windows application out there thatA > can read those files and make them available to a windows user?K >aE > We are primarily a windows shop but we have access to Linux and Suni@ > boxes if necessary, though that would certainly complicate theH > process. But as I said earlier the files are already on a Windows 2000G > system and we would like to keep them inside our windows environment.0 > 	 > Thanks,d > Dave  B Download the Simh VAX simulator from Bob Supnik's site. There is aI precompiled kit for windows. Become an associate member of Encompass (fora@ free) and get yourself a VMS license. If you have an old VAX/VMSI distribution use that, otherwise buy one from Montagar ($30). Build a VMSnH system on the simulator, transfer the BCK files to the simulated VAX andH unpack with VMS. Might take some time to make this work, say a week, but
 that's it.     Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:20:13 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e3 Subject: Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in WindowseI Message-ID: <xr%cb.86500$Lnr1.10778@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o  ? Save yourself the problems - call Island and buy a small Alpha.x   Dave wrote: G > We have a large number of VMS Backup tapes that contain VMS savesets..G > We no longer have a VMS system or access to one but we still have thewF > tape reader. Thanks to some software from Novasoft we have been ableE > to transfer the *.bck files from those tapes to our Windows system.,D > Now we are looking for a way to read those saveset and recover theH > files from the archives. Is there a windows application out there thatA > can read those files and make them available to a windows user?> > E > We are primarily a windows shop but we have access to Linux and Sun @ > boxes if necessary, though that would certainly complicate theH > process. But as I said earlier the files are already on a Windows 2000G > system and we would like to keep them inside our windows environment.C >S	 > Thanks,  > Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2003 18:37 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)l3 Subject: Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows - Message-ID: <26SEP200318371756@gerg.tamu.edu>o  d In article <d4436197.0309261006.31b0f757@posting.google.com>, mullins_david@bah.com (Dave) writes...F }We have a large number of VMS Backup tapes that contain VMS savesets.F }We no longer have a VMS system or access to one but we still have theE }tape reader. Thanks to some software from Novasoft we have been ablehD }to transfer the *.bck files from those tapes to our Windows system.C }Now we are looking for a way to read those saveset and recover thehG }files from the archives. Is there a windows application out there thaty@ }can read those files and make them available to a windows user? } D }We are primarily a windows shop but we have access to Linux and Sun? }boxes if necessary, though that would certainly complicate thefG }process. But as I said earlier the files are already on a Windows 2000fF }system and we would like to keep them inside our windows environment. } 	 }Thanks, e }Dave   @ There are probably several solutions, including commercial ones.  E There is at least one free program that will read VMS backup savesetsiH on Unix systems. The one I have heard of is calle, not too surprisingly,H "vmsbackup". A search for that (all one word) on google should point you to it.  L If you are phenominally lucky, that program might build on a Windows system.  H You should note that the actual data will tend to not be easily useable.F The default file format is not a stream format, so you need to do someG parsing of the records. Executables are, of course, useless on windows.sG Getting data from any indexed files would be a rather complex task, bute not impossible.e   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:26:37 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>3 Subject: Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows ) Message-ID: <3F74D922.1E09ECBD@istop.com>   H > }We have a large number of VMS Backup tapes that contain VMS savesets.H > }We no longer have a VMS system or access to one but we still have the > }tape reader.    What sort of data do you have ?r  J My instinctive reaction would be to find a VMS shop that could extract theN files for you, and then convert the files into a format usable to Windows (eg:I strip all file attributes). In many cases, this can be achieved simply byaI FTPing the files back to your windows systems since the FTP software will : create text files that match windows own text file format.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:21:04 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e3 Subject: Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windowsf' Message-ID: <3F74E600.129DFD32@fsi.net>-   Dave wrote:= > G > We have a large number of VMS Backup tapes that contain VMS savesets.iG > We no longer have a VMS system or access to one but we still have theyF > tape reader. Thanks to some software from Novasoft we have been ableE > to transfer the *.bck files from those tapes to our Windows system.=D > Now we are looking for a way to read those saveset and recover theH > files from the archives. Is there a windows application out there thatA > can read those files and make them available to a windows user?  > E > We are primarily a windows shop but we have access to Linux and Sun @ > boxes if necessary, though that would certainly complicate theH > process. But as I said earlier the files are already on a Windows 2000G > system and we would like to keep them inside our windows environment.'  F Well, extracting the files is one thing. Reading them may prove rather> more of a challenge due to the lack of RMS on non-VMS systems.   -- w David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:50:56 -0400c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>A Subject: Re: TCP/IP development (was Re: New round of cuts at HP)p) Message-ID: <3F748A8C.9717C215@istop.com>e   Keith Parris wrote:dE > While there will eventually be fewer engineers contributing code tom= > that code base (as Tru64 new-code development ramps down), b  K Isn't the "eventually" already happening ? How many contractors who work onmH the VMS TCPIP product are being let go by HP ? Are they being replaced ?  H And since NSK is so different from VMS, can they really expect to have a3 common code base between VMS and NSK TCPIP stacks ?    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2003 14:41:12 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)tA Subject: Re: TCP/IP development (was Re: New round of cuts at HP) = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0309261341.280506d3@posting.google.com>S  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F748A8C.9717C215@istop.com>...-F > since NSK is so different from VMS, can they really expect to have a5 > common code base between VMS and NSK TCPIP stacks ?t  E VMS is very different from Tru64, yet the code proved to be portable.eC As long as both platforms have a C compiler, it doesn't surprise me F that at least most of the code can be identical. After all, the TCP/IPC protocol handling code has to act the same regardless of platform. e< I'm sure there are platform-specific pieces to integrate theD Tru64-based code into each platform's OS APIs, (and on VMS there areD VMS-style command-line interfaces added; and I'd not be surprised ifB NSK had something special like this as well) but that's probably a small fraction of the code.n  7 So bugfixes to the common code benefit all 3 platforms.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:10:16 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e; Subject: Re: VMS "is" affordable for small/medium business!s' Message-ID: <3F74E378.F4E6624E@fsi.net>r   Bob Ceculski wrote:- > 4 > what does everyone mean here that vms is still not2 > affordable for small business?  I started out at3 > several small businesses and now for a medium ones1 > we always ran vms and price was never an issue! 0 > You can call dave at island and get a ds10l or. > personal work station now licensed for under5 > $2000!  Same for a lot of alphaservers (800, 1200).  > So that dog don't hunt ...  D ...unless you're talking about a system to compete with the likes ofG Proliant + W2K + (server software of choice), then the price of the VMSR: system (inlcuding licensing) is the "dog that don't hunt".  C Remember: DEC / Q / hp have always gone to great lengths to preventr@ folks from trying to build enterprise solutions on workstation / workgroup class machines.n   --   David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:48:04 -0400o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>E Subject: Re: VMS Cracked! [was: Linux is the favourite hacker target]t) Message-ID: <3F7489E1.5487941D@istop.com>t   Keith Parris wrote: A > Microsoft DOS was analogous to a hang glider -- very simple andeE > inexpensive, yet actually capable of flight with one person.  Since H > then, they've scaled it up to a larger size and added engines, but tooB > much of the design still reflects the original crude single-seatG > focus.  They claim it's an airliner now, but most people can tell ther
 > difference.l  L But when they hired Cuttler and al to write NT, (and windows 95), they couldM have decided to start from a clean slate and stop adding security issues withC" each bell and whistle they wanted.  M I think that one problem is that Billy Gates was so late in acknowledging the(N internet that the early versions just didn't think about internet as a vehicleG for viri, and by the time Gates acknowledged the internet, the security 4 problems were already well rooted into his software.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2003 14:28:58 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)AE Subject: Re: VMS Cracked! [was: Linux is the favourite hacker target]n= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0309261328.609bd3ea@posting.google.com>k  [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3F7489E1.5487941D@istop.com>...pN > But when they hired Cuttler and al to write NT, (and windows 95), they couldO > have decided to start from a clean slate and stop adding security issues withp$ > each bell and whistle they wanted.  B Windows 95 was not Cutler's -- that's what NT had to be compatible with.@  C You can't have a clean slate and backward compatability at the samen time.t  D Microsoft valued creating powerful (but easily-abused) features over system security.  O > I think that one problem is that Billy Gates was so late in acknowledging theaP > internet that the early versions just didn't think about internet as a vehicleI > for viri, and by the time Gates acknowledged the internet, the securityb6 > problems were already well rooted into his software.  < The problem started much earlier than that.  Gates failed to0 acknowledge floppy disks as a vehicle for virii.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 02:39:25 GMTi1 From: "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net>k7 Subject: VMS JVM implementation of sub-process deletionT7 Message-ID: <xL6db.12536$Wd7.5281@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>o  L I'm seeing a couple of inconsistencies trying to control sub-processes usingA the java API calls in 'Process'.  Specifically, I'm trying to use J Process.destroy() to abort a sub-process that has been created.  I'm usingJ the classic (.vs. FAST) JVM interactively.  I'm running on VMS 7.3-1, JAVA  SDK 1.3.1-4 installed on a DS10.  I Inconsistency #1:  At the time of the destroy call, if the sub-process isbG executing in DCL (various things -- a $WAIT statement, $writes to a log H file, etc.), the destroy call appears to be ignored -- the DCL procedureL keeps going -- it will even continue to run other executable images.  If theH sub-process is executing a program when the destroy call is issued (onlyJ attempted in USER mode), the sub-process is deleted right away as would be	 expected.l  L Inconsistency #2: If, as above, the sub-process is executing in DCL when theH destroy call is issued, if I then exit the JAVA program that created theE sub-process (say via CNTL-Y), the sub-process immediately disappears, ' instead of continuing as it does above.o  K It would appear that Process.destroy() is not implemented via $DELPRC, as IoF would expect to see that termination status (%X2BD4) in the accountingJ records.  If it were implemented via $FORCEX, I would have expected to seeI the 'force exit pending' bit in the process control status set, but it iswI not.  If it was implemented by some sort of user-mode AST, I would expectsL that as soon as the DCL runs a program in user-mode, the AST would be pickedA up, but SDA doesn't show any AST's active/pending/blocked for thea3 sub-process after the destroy() function is called.T  K All of this can be worked-around -- but I was wondering if I'm just missingmE something or is this a feature.  I can't find anything in the release 8 notes/API documentation/etc. that mentions these things.  % Thanx in advance for any information.=   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2003 22:22:42 GMT2 From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@squeeeez.no-ip.com>" Subject: Re: VMS system on the web0 Message-ID: <slrnbn9f1i.8u.thierry@VENUS.Family>  
 In articleC <2SLcb.72641$Lnr1.49527@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, John= Smith wrote: > Robert Deininger wrote:-< >> In article <bkv3r6$6bigf$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, >> bill@cs.uofs.edu wrote: >>E >>> Ummmm..  I'm the one who proposed the possibility of some portingeE >>> projects that would count for academic credit (at least we have aw@ >>> projects course here where that would work)  Compaq (yes, itB >>> predated the merger) provided a machine and one years worth ofF >>> licenses.  And it was greatly appreciated.  Sadly, more is needed.D >>> Without experience no student is going to commit to a project heF >>> can't be sure of being able to finish.  And that comes back to theE >>> same argument again.  We need the ability to set up labs that can A >>> support multiple servers and multiple users.  The current EDU  >>> program does not do this.P >>D >> The Edu program does allow for multiple systems, and 25 users per+ >> system. And a bunch of layered products.  >>@ >> Is that not enough, or is there something about the terms and+ >> conditions that keeps you from using it?I >  > E > Seems to me that a typical CS class has more than 25 students....ateE > some schools the overall class size can be in the hundreds, perhapspG > divided into different sections of 50+ students. All the kids get theoH > same assignments at the same time and need to hammer the same machines > the same weekend.d > H > Are you suggesting that each section have one or more machines runningH > VMS in order to accomodate 25 'named' users or 25 concurrent users perG > machine?  Remember that VMS or features therein aren't the only thingeG > these kids are studying/learning, so tying up all the overhead (floormC > space, HVAC, a/c, admin, etc...) for a fleet of Alphas or ItanicstG > limited to 25 users (however you count them) doesn't fly in academia.r  @ True... how about putting 1 or 2 machines at school and tell theG students: "hey, if you want to get on the machine but there are alreadytG 25 users working on it, and you don't want to wait, you can set up simhnE at home and install VMS with the hobbyist license."?  Maybe with some-> kind of hotline if installation/administration problems occur.   Thierryp   -- n? I will tell you if you solemnly promise to tell everybody else.x  --Oscar Wilde   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:17:50 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oH Subject: When does the VMS advertising campaign start around this topic?I Message-ID: <ip%cb.86461$Lnr1.22774@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>d  B Q. When does the VMS advertising campaign start around this topic?  + A. Probably never with VMS's current owner.e  E The last sentence in the article is telling. Pretty soon it will be a"I dereliction of good corporate governance if comapnies DON'T have DisasteraL Tolerance computing (for public companies, the SEC could make it just as bigJ an issues as cooking the books). But the HP rocket scientists won't figureK that VMS has an opportunity until Sun, IBM, and Microsoft have first reapedt all the profits and mindshare.    L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1632&ncid=1208&e=3&u=/techta" rget/20030926/tc_techtarget/929538  . Regional disasters prompt new redundancy plans Fri Sep 26, 8:00 AM ET  , Jim Rendon, SearchNetworking.com News Writer    D In the wake of recent regional disasters, a number of businesses areF creating more room between their main offices and their secondary dataF centers. But as they ponder moving their data further away, enterpriseK (news - web sites) decision makers are running into new problems and higher-' costs, forcing more creative solutions.M  L Following the September 11 terrorist attacks two years ago and this summer'sJ East Coast blackouts, regional disasters have become a greater concern forK the average enterprise. Disaster planners can no longer feel content that arK data center across town, or even across the state, will not fail along with2I the one at headquarters, said Mike Ferrell, a risk manager with Roseland,.G N.J.-based payroll processing and computer services firm Automatic DatauF Processing Inc. Ferrell is developing disaster recovery plans for ADP.  G At the same time, merely backing up data is not enough to ensure that a K business will not go dark during an emergency. Some businesses are enabling K entire applications and systems to run from remote sites. In the event of a&G disaster, businesses need to keep their core applications running, saida? Chris Nichols, vice president of strategy for Dallas-based datahK communications and consulting firm MDM Group Inc., which works with many oftL New York's financial services companies. Simply having database records does8 not help if a business can't use the data, Nichols said.  J But that kind of redundancy is more expensive and requires more resources.       Distance decisions  J Locating a data center hundred or thousands of miles away from a business'L headquarters poses a number of problems. If a company chooses to operate theB data center on its own, then it must be able to staff it during an
 emergency.  J Many New York financial services companies have located their data centersL just across the river in New Jersey. But during recent disasters, they foundH that they couldn't even get their staff across the Hudson River, FerrellJ said. Plus, he said, even when physical barriers aren't an issue, staffingG remote data centers full time or even just during emergencies adds to a  company's costs.  G For those considering an outsourcer, cost is often prohibitive there assJ well. Nichols said that most large companies have already outsourced theirI data centers to service providers, like Electronic Data Systems Corp. Butt: many midsized firms simply can't afford to do so, he said.  L Some enterprises are also concerned about the reliability of outsourced dataJ centers. In the event of a widespread problem, like August's blackout, allL of a data center's customers may need to run their systems from the facility at the same time.o  I "It is unlikely that outsourcers design for 100% availability for 100% of K their customers," said William Terrill, an analyst with Midvale, Utah-based' research firm the Burton Group.y  H A company should determine which functions are absolutely crucial to itsH survival during a disaster, and which ones it can live without for a fewH days, said Terrill. For example, a bank may want to ensure that its ATMsJ still work or that it can continue to process checks, while online bankingE or employee e-mail might not be necessary to keep the business going.      Do-it-yourself success  G Not every business needs to be able to run its operations from a remote I site. Terrill said a company can keep costs down by being selective aboutm which systems need redundancy.  I Thomas Weisel Partners LLC, a merchant bank, faced just that issues a fewhJ years ago. Because the firm is based in San Francisco, earthquakes (news -L web sites) are a natural concern. At the height of the economic boom, ThomasI Weisel looked at outsourcing its data center but found even then that the 6 cost was prohibitive for the small, 500-employee firm.  L Instead, the company decided to use its three distributed offices to provideH itself with redundancy, said Beth Cannon, the company's chief technologyG officer. The company has offices in New York and Boston, as well as San I Francisco. It decided to use San Francisco and New York as redundant data  centers.  L Each of the company's departments determined which applications and businessK functions were critical in order to ensure that the firm would be availablenJ during an emergency. It also regularly ships backup data tapes between the two offices.  J With this approach, the company has redundancy on opposite coasts at sitesB that are already staffed. The process has not incurred significantJ additional cost, and it enables Thomas Weisel to access crucial systems if one of its offices goes down.   L More companies are likely to face these problems in the near future, TerrillL said. Enterprises are growing more concerned about their ability to functionH in a disaster, and ***regulatory bodies are becoming more concerned with disaster recovery as well.***c   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:18:24 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)0 Subject: [CSWS_JAVA V2.1] Installation problem ?5 Message-ID: <4i0db.134393$hd6.1514455@news.chello.at>i  I Does anyone else have an installation problem with CSWS_JAVA V1.2 ? I get-  7 %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading *CSWS_JAVA-V0201--1.PCSI # -DDIS-E-TNF, invalid element syntaxo  # on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 and E7.3-2.A   TIA    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistI E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:40 GMT@6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: [ZIP V2.3] Bad error/return codes5 Message-ID: <wf0db.134343$hd6.1508941@news.chello.at>l  G Has anyone an idea how to circumvent the wrong error codes of ZIP.EXE ?   * 	"zip warning: could not open for reading"6 gives	"%NONAME-E-INSFMEM, insufficient dynamic memory"   	"zip error: Nothing to do"o4 gives	"%NONAME-W-GPTFULL, global page table is full"  * 	"zip error: Could not create output file"6 gives	"%NONAME-F-ILLIOFUNC, illegal I/O function code"  
 and so on.  @ Is there a good way to fix the source code ? A formula perhaps ?A Is there a logical for the change of the behaviour of the C RTL ?n   TIAt   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERd% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:26:08 -0500i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>E. Subject: Re: [ZIP V2.3] Bad error/return codes' Message-ID: <3F74E730.ED7DFAC4@fsi.net>t    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > I > Has anyone an idea how to circumvent the wrong error codes of ZIP.EXE ?c > 3 >         "zip warning: could not open for reading"a: > gives   "%NONAME-E-INSFMEM, insufficient dynamic memory" > $ >         "zip error: Nothing to do"8 > gives   "%NONAME-W-GPTFULL, global page table is full"  > The first two are likely due to lack of system/process quotas.  3 >         "zip error: Could not create output file"o: > gives   "%NONAME-F-ILLIOFUNC, illegal I/O function code"  + Can you give examples of where this occurs?f  ? I've seen ZIP do some goofy stuff, but not those in particular.   G On the other hand, if you're trying to use F$MESSAGE() to interpret therF $STATUS codes returned by ZIP, them you're simply barking up the wrongG tree. C programs don't return meaningful $STATUS values without seriousr VMS-specific effort.   -- a David J. Dachterav dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.535 ************************