1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 30 Sep 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 542       Contents:
 Alpha Port Re: AMD64 sales figures ! Re: BACKUP Throughput measurement ! Re: BACKUP Throughput measurement  Re: BEA WebLogic and VMS  Re: DS10 vs. DS40 and HP support0 Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi2 Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? Excursion with decw$mwm 3 failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP) 7 Re: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP) 7 Re: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP) 7 Re: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP) 7 Re: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP) @ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...)@ Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) Re: Graphics card for AS1000A  Re: Graphics card for AS1000A - Re: How to use shareable image to share data? 7 Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back." ) Re: IMACRO (was: New round of cuts at HP) ( Re: Linux is the favourite hacker target0 map port 21 from XP gateway to VMS intranet box? Re: New round of cuts at HP  Re: New round of cuts at HP  Re: New round of cuts at HP  Re: Nice touch, AMD + Re: Oracle 8.1.7.4 on VMS 7.2-2 Performance % Re: OT: Talk about bad luck (Halifax) D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?D Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?* Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows Re: RSX.EXE under OpenVMS 7.3? same or different system roots Re: SSH for VMS  Re: symbiont housekeeping ?  Re: symbiont housekeeping ?  Re: symbiont housekeeping ? 8 Re: TCP/IP development (was Re: New round of cuts at HP)< Re: TCPWARE v5.4-3 Patch 19.0, TCPware_FTP process "hanging"5 UCX Ping can't be used by user with NETBMX and TMPMBX 9 Re: UCX Ping can't be used by user with NETBMX and TMPMBX 9 Re: UCX Ping can't be used by user with NETBMX and TMPMBX  Re: Virtul Tape Driver2 Re: VMS JVM implementation of sub-process deletion Re: VMS Security Rundown Re: VMS Security Rundown Re: VMS system on the web  Re: VMS system on the web 2 Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)2 Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)2 Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)2 Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)* VMS731_DISMOU-V0100 - What are the issues?& Re: WTB:  Dectape II (TU58) Cartridges& Re: WTB:  Dectape II (TU58) Cartridges Re: [5] Counter Googling :-( [5] Counter Googling :-( Re: [5] Counter Googling :-(  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:44:15 -0400 ' From: "Mike Rieker" <mrieker@o3one.org>  Subject: Alpha Port / Message-ID: <vnj5m1k2hbvu1b@corp.supernews.com>   & It works!  OZONE is officially 64-bit!* www.o3one.org and www.o3one.org/alpha.html  K Haven't beat on it yet and I'm sure there's plenty of little things to fix, C but it loads and runs the shell and I can type in commands.  Next I 9 have to check out the utilities and get GCC, etc. ported.    Mike   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:50:48 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>   Subject: Re: AMD64 sales figures2 Message-ID: <Ivieb.5984$Y31.5280@news.cpqcorp.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:bl8rt7$8g9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > rob kas wrote:. > >>OK - sorry. Must have missed that one 8^). > >  > > ; > >  Yes but you always respond with single word   "ECache"  > > G > >   Big Difference between Early IA64 machines and what should mature  Stable > > High End Sparcs. > >  > >  > C > Can you tell the difference between a batch process manufacturing ( > problem and a processor design fault ? >  >   J Hmmm.  A poor design (IMHO a processor design fault for a high-end server)I which used parity cache memory instead of ECC, combined with a problem in K the manufacturing process, led to flakey failing systems when the processor  speed was too high.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 07:03:18 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org* Subject: Re: BACKUP Throughput measurement3 Message-ID: <956x1sfJbak+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <03092916441765@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:L >> > Also I notice that the f$getdvi(device,"OPCNT") reports the accumulated
 >> count. Q >> > Is there a way to ZERO this value?  I see potential for overflows here or am  >> I >> > wrong?  >>  F >> Unless you are planning on tracking a BACKUP job that is backing upE >> more than 16 terabytes to tape, OPCNT overflows are not a concern.  > O > Since I do not do backups of anything larger than 100-GB (potential) then the 8 > delta is not the problem - and I did not think it was. > P > However - if the OPCNT is not recylced until a REBOOT, and if the server is upK > for a number of months (or years) and backups are performed daily... what  > then?  >  > uptime = 300 days  > OPCNT = 302,327,142  > P > My concern is what is the limit of OPCNT?  At what point does OPCNT roll-over?  J I expect it is a 32 bit counter that will either roll from 2^31-1 to -2^31F (signed interpretation) or from 2^32-1 to 0 (unsigned interpretation).  G Either way, DCL code subtracting the final value from the initial value G will compute a positive difference just as if no overflow had occurred. 2 I thought I'd addressed that in the previous post.   $! Signed overflow $ FINAL = %X80000000 $ INITIAL = %X7FFFFFFF $ SHOW SYM FINAL;   FINAL = -2147483648   Hex = 80000000  Octal = 20000000000  $ SHOW SYM INITIAL<   INITIAL = 2147483647   Hex = 7FFFFFFF  Octal = 17777777777" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT FINAL - INITIAL 1    $! Unsigned overflow $ FINAL = 0  $ INITIAL = %XFFFFFFFF $ SHOW SYM FINAL1   FINAL = 0   Hex = 00000000  Octal = 00000000000  $ SHOW SYM INITIAL4   INITIAL = -1   Hex = FFFFFFFF  Octal = 37777777777" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT FINAL - INITIAL 1   C The only room for paranoia I see is the possibility that OPCNT will < simply stop incrementing at the maximum representable value.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 06:27:42 -0700. From: al5vf03p02@sneakemail.com (William Webb)* Subject: Re: BACKUP Throughput measurement= Message-ID: <d5ce4b06.0309300527.54d16add@posting.google.com>   b Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<3F789DB5.399FD462@sture.homeip.net>... > John Brandon wrote:  > > O > > I have a backup application using the VMS BACKUP utility.  OK, it is just a N > > bunch of command files that use scripts to backup the disks.  No big deal. > > Q > > However, I have always wanted to measure the throughput of the BACKUP utility 7 > > and wanted to know if anyone is doing this and how.  > > # > > At current, I do the following:  > >  > > $!' > > $ starttime = f$cvtime(,"ABSOLUTE") 4 > > $ freeblocks = f$getdvi(bup_device,"FREEBLOCKS")0 > > $ maxblock = f$getdvi(bup_device,"MAXBLOCK")( > > $ usedblocks = maxblock - freeblocks > > $! > > $ backup ... > > $!% > > $ endtime = f$cvtime(,"ABSOLUTE")  > > $! > > R > > I take the delta of start and end time and using the number of usedblocks I amP > > able to (roughly) calculate the throughput.  It may not be exact, however itK > > does provide me with a value with which I can make general esitmates of  > > throughput.  > > @ > > Anyone else do something different?  Just kind of curious... > >  > A > I do my backups with a /LIST=filename, and keep the listings on D > disk. I have a procedure which extracts the file and block counts,H > and compares the creation and modification dates of the listing files. > D > I'd have to dig into the code for further details, as it's several > years since I wrote it.  > C > BTW, keeping the listing files on disk is extremely handy when it J > comes to restoring files from a multivolume tape set, as you can quicklyG > locate which tape(s) the required files are on, and skip any previous  > tapes.  D I use Archive Backup System (ABS) from HP, so I don't have to bother with things like /LIST.   < It's a terrific product, feature-rich, steep learning curve.  C All the information in your listing file, and more is automatically # cataloged in a searchable database.   5 Information at http://www.support.compaq.com/sms/abs/    WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:00:24 +0200 ( From: "John Apps" <john.apps@compaq.com>! Subject: Re: BEA WebLogic and VMS * Message-ID: <3f798d86@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  G Nobody wants to hide anything here, but most of the customers using the I software are in the financial services industry and do not broadcast what ! they use to the 'general public'. H So, it has nothing to do with VMS or the use of WebLogic thereon. I haveJ seen this with any number of customers, not just VMS or users of WebLogic.  L As I said before, if there is genuine interest in learning more, please drop me an email.   John   --  L This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individualL to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those ofJ the author and do not necessarily represent those of Compaq Computer GmbH.H If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have receivedJ this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing,0 or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>A wrote in message news:00A26A0A.F4760F83@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... : > In article <3f78204a$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "John Apps" <john.apps@compaq.com> writes: > L > >Please let me know how much detail you want via email and I'll reply withK > >what I have. Most of the customers using WebLogic on OpenVMS do not wish H > >that fact to be know to a wide audience, hence the request for email. > >  > J > Curious, not challenging: Why wouldn't they want that known?  And is theC > WebLogic part or the VMS part that they're trying to keep secret?  > 	 > -- Alan  > --   > L ============================================================================ === 2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUA >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056G >  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA  94025  > L ============================================================================ ===  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:35:44 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> ) Subject: Re: DS10 vs. DS40 and HP support 8 Message-ID: <20030930083544.7ae8eef7.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:23:19 -0700( David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:  ; Yes, this is way off topic, but just in case anybody cares:   * > And then, miracle of miracles, she takesL > down my name and number and promises to call when the systems come back up1 > on Monday.  We'll see today how that turns out.    Not well - no call back.    8 Two more calls in and I reached a supervisor who figured? out what had gone wrong.  Apparently they had not filled in the < hardware part of the original order (even though SBC had the= information) so it jammed in their system, apparently without 9 raising a warning flag that maybe, just maybe they should ; call the customer and obtain the missing information.  This 9 ordering glitch was corrected and supposedly the hardware  will now be "expedited".   I'm not holding my breath.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:44:18 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)9 Subject: Re: Elapsed time through the lex. func. f$getjpi . Message-ID: <blc4s2$dop$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes in article <3F78E943.6983771C@fsi.net> dated Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:24:03 -0500:
 >Well, ... > 4 >$ say f$cvtime( "03:00:00.00-23:45:00.00",,"time" ) >03:15:00.00 >  >Looks good to me...  3 Indeed it does!  Gotta love that modulo arithmetic.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:48:07 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>; Subject: Re: EVA question: How many vdisks should I create? 8 Message-ID: <sc5jnvk7pbl7evqc98irhm02g1h1jqtdam@4ax.com>  C On 28 Sep 2003 08:42:15 GMT, yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine  (58-4279)) wrote:   I >> Bottom line:  create one big disk group (ours is currently 168 *146GB  J >> drives - total usable space is 22TB) and carve as  many 1TB drives out H >> of that as you need.  If you are truly worried about I/O bottleneck, N >> make sure you convert your SAN to 2GB and I doubt you could keep it busy... > J >I had a paper written by DEC/HPQ (don't have it in front of me now) whichO >states that by experiments they found that adding drives to a group raises the O >total throughput up to 20 drives; adding more drives does not change the total L >throughput; hence, I would create disk groups of around 20 disks per group. >Just my thoughts...1 >                                       __Yehavi:   K I'd be very curious to read this paper.  I've seen earlier papers that made I statements about configuring for performance  that some people translated I as general-case best practices - but they were not intended to be general ) guidelines for performance configuration.   G Be careful to make note of the comparisons and trade-offs in these docs H when reading the rest of the testing results.  They are often written toD address specific design goals that may not necessarily apply to your environment.  @ One big trade-off to having 20-disks per group is that you lose:, -  capacity, more spares needed, for example( -  spindles available for load balancingB -  administration time - takes more work to manage multiple groups8 -  flexibility - capacity reallocation, snapshots, etc,   H One of the biggest benefits of EVA, imho, is the reduction in time spentH monitoring lun queues and manually repartitioning databases to alleviateK performance bottlenecks.  This includes people time to plan & implement, as G well as application downtime that may be required to implement.  Adding F LUNs ad nauseum (a la SCSI-based RAID configurations) requires carefulE changes to:  Backups, restores, operations procedures, DR procedures, I startup procedures (in some cases anyway), high availability planning and  recovery, etc.  ; The impact depends on each specific environment, of course.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 01:01:45 -0700) From: meidanze@hotmail.com (meidan zemer)   Subject: Excursion with decw$mwm= Message-ID: <3bbfbaa2.0309300001.52793e51@posting.google.com>    Hi All, > We have a motif application which we run on PC with excursion.? We are using the decw$mwm window manager insted of the one that F excursion provide.Our problem is that when we run the decw$mwm, we can1 not change the focused windows with alt-tab keys. D When we tried to change window focus the focus is moving only from aA none motif application, but within the motif applicaion the focus . remains on the last windows that was in focus.A I have tried to check it with the util XEV and i saw that the key > combination is pass to the window manager but not the event of changing window focus.1 Does anybody have an idea how can i make it work?  Thanks,  Meidan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:56:38 +0200  From: PRSTSC::DTL <no@spam.com> < Subject: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP)4 Message-ID: <3f797e0a$0$20619$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  F Happiness is rebooting one's good old VMS (old???) after six months...  E I tried to access my default dir from MOZ on my ALPHA via the command    ftp://system@127.0.0.1  - I expected to get a full directory of my dir.  MOZ prompted for the pwd, then:   1 550-failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input  550 file not found  ? If I use FTP from the ALPHA or WSFTP from my PC, it logs in ok. Q If I create an empty . file, I do not get the error anymore but I get nothing :-(   # What is happening? I'm getting old?    D.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 15:31:58 +0200' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) @ Subject: Re: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP)+ Message-ID: <KOCVOgMj57vA@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   V In article <3f797e0a$0$20619$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, PRSTSC::DTL <no@spam.com> writes:H > Happiness is rebooting one's good old VMS (old???) after six months...G > I tried to access my default dir from MOZ on my ALPHA via the command  > ftp://system@127.0.0.1/ > I expected to get a full directory of my dir. ! > MOZ prompted for the pwd, then: 3 > 550-failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input  > 550 file not foundA > If I use FTP from the ALPHA or WSFTP from my PC, it logs in ok. S > If I create an empty . file, I do not get the error anymore but I get nothing :-( % > What is happening? I'm getting old?   $ I can't help to resolve the problem,. but Mozilla apparently is not prepared to make an FTP directory listing.   % The resulting FTP commands look like: > (127.0.0.1) [FTP: Session begins. User=SYSTEM, Host=LOCALHOST] (127.0.0.1) [FTP: SYST ]. (127.0.0.1) [FTP: Retrieve [] (typ=6, stru=0)]E (127.0.0.1) [FTP: Retrieval of [] failed, codes = 00018292, 00000910]   5 i.e., Mozilla doesn't do a LIST sequence, just a GET. - Good old netscape 3.03/4.7 does it correctly.    --  >    Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Muenchen   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:51:28 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>@ Subject: Re: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP)2 Message-ID: <blc1p3$lcj$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>  ' yeah man, works from internet exploser.  Thanks. / Gonna go to bugzilla or get the latest kit now.    D.   Joseph Huber wrote:   X > In article <3f797e0a$0$20619$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, PRSTSC::DTL <no@spam.com> writes: > H >>Happiness is rebooting one's good old VMS (old???) after six months...G >>I tried to access my default dir from MOZ on my ALPHA via the command  >>ftp://system@127.0.0.1/ >>I expected to get a full directory of my dir. ! >>MOZ prompted for the pwd, then: 3 >>550-failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input  >>550 file not foundA >>If I use FTP from the ALPHA or WSFTP from my PC, it logs in ok. S >>If I create an empty . file, I do not get the error anymore but I get nothing :-( % >>What is happening? I'm getting old?  >  > & > I can't help to resolve the problem,0 > but Mozilla apparently is not prepared to make > an FTP directory listing.  > ' > The resulting FTP commands look like: @ > (127.0.0.1) [FTP: Session begins. User=SYSTEM, Host=LOCALHOST] > (127.0.0.1) [FTP: SYST ]0 > (127.0.0.1) [FTP: Retrieve [] (typ=6, stru=0)]G > (127.0.0.1) [FTP: Retrieval of [] failed, codes = 00018292, 00000910]  > 7 > i.e., Mozilla doesn't do a LIST sequence, just a GET. / > Good old netscape 3.03/4.7 does it correctly.  >    --  - Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 euros                      Tout VMS.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:51:48 GMT ! From: Colin <colin@theblakes.com> @ Subject: Re: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP): Message-ID: <UTfeb.284$qj6.256013@news1.news.adelphia.net>  E Mozilla 1.5 beta (and later) (on all platforms) contains support for   OpenVMS FTP servers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:42 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>@ Subject: Re: failed to open sys$common:[sysmgr]. for input (FTP)2 Message-ID: <blc1t8$lcj$2@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>  F all right Colin, I just posted that I will go to see about the latest  kit !...+ (did you put a security ACL on c.o.v. ? :-)    D.   Colin wrote:  G > Mozilla 1.5 beta (and later) (on all platforms) contains support for   > OpenVMS FTP servers.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Sep 2003 08:00:28 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <blbd6s$4jd$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  W In article <3F78E20E.2010100@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: N >The real issue is that if something isn't done to stop, or at least put some Q >limits on spam, it will totally destroy the usefulness of internet e-mail.  For  L >the last several weeks over 90% of what I've received, was unsolicited and 0 >undesired.  And I may be one of the lucky ones!  G Currently about 80% of the traffic at our site is either spam or virus.     P >So, why a fee?  It's really a bad thing, but possibly the only thing that will R >get those who use spam for marketing to be a bit more descreet in whom they send R >e-mails.  If it's possible to do it without fees, I'm all for it, but rules just O >don't work with spammers.  The almighty dollar will get their attention, even  J >better than a 2x4 up alongside their head, (though the 2x4 might be more  >satisfying to some of us).    I wholeheartedly agree.   Q >So, if the USA has no jurisdiction over a Korean ISP, so what, all traffic from  J >the Korean ISP (and any others who refuse to combat spam) can be totally K >blocked.  If that doesn't bother them, fine.  If they start losing paying  M >customers, they might choose to reconsider.  Spammers usually aren't paying  D >customers.  Why would any business choose to defend their activity?  K Even worse, at the moment ISPs providing access to spammers earn money from 4 them. They are just customers paying for their link.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Sep 2003 07:55:35 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 0 Message-ID: <blbctn$4jd$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  J In article <blabbl$ivi$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:L >>No need for that. From the ISPs point of view, it simply needs to count orM >>observe the packets that come via your interface or channel or whatever you N >>call it. The sender's IP address is simply not relevant. The only thing thatP >>counts is that it is a packet dedicated to port 25 and coming to your ISP fromO >>your site. The ISP will have to make sure that it counts each connection only  >>once.  > J >Your site ? A fee based system cannot possibly work without 100% accuracyM >in determining who sent a message. Nowadays you can spoof a switched network  >with publicly available tools.   H Not with my approach. Again, no need to bother with the original sender,O rerouting or final destination. From a network providers point of view, it will O only count or evaluate packets that come via its various channels. And there is L always only one and a dedicated source connected to an interface or channel.L This one has to be billed and it is up to this one to bill the ones that are connected to him.    >Receiving ISP :-  > L >Hotmail my records show a port 25 connection from a.b.c.d at 23:30:00.05 on >28th september 2003 BST >  >Hotmail :-  > B >Our records show that noone had that address at that time. Sorry. >  >  >Now what ?   N It is a thing amongst network providers in the first place. The deal is alwaysO between the guys that are directly linked. Hotmail is hooked up to some network M provider. They are already business partners and hotmail already pays bills.    H >Receiving ISP tries to sue hotmail across international boundaries for  >a miniscule sum ?  M Won't be the case. A small ISP is connected to a larger ISP, this one is then K connected to a nation-wide network provider which in turn is linked to some K international network provider. The bills always go between directly linked 4 partners. They already do business which each other.  - >Receiving ISP blocks all mail from hotmail ?  > E >There are some ISPs like hotmail which are so widely used that it is I >politically impossible to block them even if they are harbouring tons of K >spammers. I'd be lynched by my management if I suggested blocking hotmail.   M It is a matter of hotmail's ISP only. This one has to decide what to do if it O gets bills from his uplink - pass them on to hotmail, increase the monthly rate ! for hotmail or drop the contract.   O >Port 25 connections tell you a connection attempt was made. Doesn't tell you a O >mail message was delivered. If a message has to be retried because of problems P >with the receiver's system the sender would be being charged for every delivery> >attempt even if this ran into thousands of delivery attempts.  L Once again, it is not the sender that would be charged in my approach. It is like the following:   G     sender --> sender's ISP --> ISP's uplink --> some large carrier --> F     larger carrier --> international net company --> large carrier -->5     smaller carrier --> recipient's ISP --> recipient   M In my approach either the "larger carrier" or the "international net company" M will have to pay a fee for each message they route through. So "international O net company" will bill "larger carrier". Then it is up to "larger carrier" what L to do - most likely bill "some large carrier" either on a per mail basis or I with a higher flat fee or implement a scheme like "1000 mails per day are M included, 10 US$ for each 100 additional ones" or anything in this direction. D There is no bill going from "recipient" to "recipient's ISP" or from' "recipient's ISP" to "smaller carrier".   O Now let's assume that "recipient" will send a message to "sender". In this case M "international net company" (the one that is obliged to the tax) will want to N bill "large carrier". Again, even today they do business with each other, theyN exchange bills, nothing new is required. "large carrier" has to decide whetherK it will bill "smaller carrier" and if so, in which way. It is then "smaller L carrier's" job to bill "recipient's ISP" and "recipient's ISP" may decide toN bill "recipient". It doesn't matter in which country "recipient" is located or7 where "sender" is living and in what currency they pay.   O Now to the case where delivery of a mail is unsuccessfull: it doesn't matter if O it counts as a message. The amount of these cases is neglectable to the overall O number of successfully delivered messages. On the other hand, it is technically J possible to do an exact billing, but I think it is not worth the overhead.  K >Also this would be a lovely new game for hackers. Spoof an IP address and  @ >connect repeatedly to port 25 on a "fee based systems" mailhub.  N This won't happen. Look at my example above: sender will get a heavy bill fromL "sender's ISP". The original bill will come from "international net company"K and will be directed to "larger carrier". This one will pay and request the L money from "some large carrier" and so on until "sender's ISP" will want theN mony from sender. I am quite confident that "sender's ISP" will have the meansF to get what it wants or that "sender's ISP" will long have implementedN something that prevents "sender" from performing costly things that would ruinL "sender's ISP". "sender" may spoof it's IP address, nevertheless his packetsH originate from him and "sender's ISP" is in a position to tell where the# packets came from and whom to bill.   H I don't seen any organizational problem with my approach. There are someK technical problems but they are easy to solve. The SMTP protocol as such is J simple. At a first glance a scanning for packets destinated to port 25 and2 containing "CR.CR" would be reasonably sufficient.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:48:53 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) ) Message-ID: <blbqj5$477$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   W In article <3F78E20E.2010100@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>>JF Mezei wrote: >>>  >>>>Bill Todd wrote: >>>>8 >>>>>>You are assuming all ISPs would charge for emails. >>>>>>F >>>>>Yes, because it would be a legal requirement for their operation. >>>>> I >>>>Nop. Go back to the roots of the internet. A collection of *separate* O >>>>interconnected networks. The USA has no jurisdiction over a Korean network. 3 >>>>Getting everyone to agree would not make sense.  > N >The real issue is that if something isn't done to stop, or at least put some Q >limits on spam, it will totally destroy the usefulness of internet e-mail.  For  L >the last several weeks over 90% of what I've received, was unsolicited and 0 >undesired.  And I may be one of the lucky ones! > P >So, why a fee?  It's really a bad thing, but possibly the only thing that will R >get those who use spam for marketing to be a bit more descreet in whom they send R >e-mails.  If it's possible to do it without fees, I'm all for it, but rules just O >don't work with spammers.  The almighty dollar will get their attention, even  J >better than a 2x4 up alongside their head, (though the 2x4 might be more  >satisfying to some of us).  > Q >So, if the USA has no jurisdiction over a Korean ISP, so what, all traffic from  J >the Korean ISP (and any others who refuse to combat spam) can be totally K >blocked.  If that doesn't bother them, fine.  If they start losing paying  , >customers, they might choose to reconsider.  H Some people already do block certain countries. However if you are doingD business with that country then blocking it doesn't make much sense.K If your company is doing business with a Korean company and someone outside K your company blocks all internet access to that Korean company you will be  P upset and will probably sue whoever put that block in place. In the meantime youI will also look for anyway around that block. The ISP who put the block in * place will be sued and will lose business.        " >  Spammers usually aren't paying D >customers.  Why would any business choose to defend their activity? > J >I keep getting spam from the same sources.  If the spammer would see the Q >futility of sending me e-mails, and it cost him to do so, he would quit.  As it  P >is, it doesn't cost him anything to continue to dump on me, and John was a bit M >wrong when he stated the 3 rules about spammers, with all of them being the  R >same.  Either change one, or add a fourth, 'spammers don't care'!  Well, they'll - >care when it costs them to send the e-mails.  >   K To have a fee paying system you need to be able to either 100% identify the I sender yourself or have total confidence that the fee has been charged at L the originators site. We are a long way from that being the position for any< mail from an ISP in the developed world yet alone elsewhere.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >Dave  >  >-- 5 >David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450 5 >Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596 ? >DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  >170 Grimplin Road >Vanderbilt, PA  15486 >    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Sep 2003 12:14:40 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) 9 Message-ID: <blbs3f$9v9oi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   , In article <3F78E20E.2010100@tsoft-inc.com>,+ 	David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:e > O > The real issue is that if something isn't done to stop, or at least put some eM > limits on spam, it will totally destroy the usefulness of internet e-mail. u  G I agree completely and being one of those who has been doing this sincetE the days before "The INTERNET" I am more than a little POed about it.n   >  For  M > the last several weeks over 90% of what I've received, was unsolicited and s1 > undesired.  And I may be one of the lucky ones!p  H Several thousand virus messages a day for over a week.  That has startedH to dissipate, but the real SPAM is going back up again although it never hit the same level.e   > Q > So, why a fee?  It's really a bad thing, but possibly the only thing that will  S > get those who use spam for marketing to be a bit more descreet in whom they send i > e-mails.    J But it will never be implemented because there are and will remain to manyI machines without the ability to play that game.  Sendmail, as we know it,o is not going away.  N >      If it's possible to do it without fees, I'm all for it, but rules just  > don't work with spammers.  o  G Actually, they do, if you include with the rules the ability to enforceeI them.  How's this for a proposal.  Let's revive UUCP for email transport. J Use the INTERNET for the transport medium only.  The advantage is you haveF a real path to trace the emails and while forging is still possible, aG quick look at some logs and the culprit is easily found.  UUCP requiresiE that you have a mutual agreement with smeone to inject Email into the H chain.  Violate the agreement and you get cut off.  Period.  No excuses.G Your feed WILL cut you off because if they don't, they risk getting cutnG off themselves.  I would guess that with the INTERNET as the medium and I no requirement to wait till night-time for the phone rates to go down :-) J email would move pretty much as fast as it does now.  All we have to do isJ revive comp.mail.maps.  And maybe, find a few kind souls willing to set upE central machines to serve as hubs thus reducing the number of hops ton@ some small number (I assume at least some here remember seismo!)  I By the way, I think the same would make sense for a stripped down versionlH of USENET News.  Same transport and support for only a small. but usefulE portion of the groups (some of Big8, vmsnet.*, etc.  agreed on by thee! admins of the machines involved.)   A Oh yeah, and no gateways between this network and the rest of the C INTERNET (not that anyone who joined would be willing to risk theira connection by providing such!)  F This is the social solution I have been talking about.  The technologyD is only chosen because it provides the ability to enforce the rules.E It's good old fashioned Amish shunning.  Violate the rules and no one-F talks to you any more.  As for the rest of the INTERNET, let them haveI their SMTP or fees or whatever they want.  All I want is my low S/N ratio  back.c   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:06:40 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>-I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) / Message-ID: <vnje11aglv7k25@news.supernews.com>m  I "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in messagep* news:blbctn$4jd$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de...L > In article <blabbl$ivi$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:K > >>No need for that. From the ISPs point of view, it simply needs to counti orK > >>observe the packets that come via your interface or channel or whatever  youcK > >>call it. The sender's IP address is simply not relevant. The only thingm thatI > >>counts is that it is a packet dedicated to port 25 and coming to yourc ISP fromL > >>your site. The ISP will have to make sure that it counts each connection only	 > >>once.o > >iL > >Your site ? A fee based system cannot possibly work without 100% accuracyG > >in determining who sent a message. Nowadays you can spoof a switched  networkl! > >with publicly available tools.h >rJ > Not with my approach. Again, no need to bother with the original sender,L > rerouting or final destination. From a network providers point of view, it willH > only count or evaluate packets that come via its various channels. And there isE > always only one and a dedicated source connected to an interface oro channel.J > This one has to be billed and it is up to this one to bill the ones that are> > connected to him.r   [details removed]v  J > I don't seen any organizational problem with my approach. There are someJ > technical problems but they are easy to solve. The SMTP protocol as such isL > simple. At a first glance a scanning for packets destinated to port 25 and4 > containing "CR.CR" would be reasonably sufficient. >)  I It's trivial for a person to send your web server a spoofed packet with aoI bogus source IP address and a source port of 25.  It's not much harder topJ arrange the payload so that your web server replies (to port 25) with "I'mI sorry but CR.CR couldn't be found".  That packet would count against yourn bill, right?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:16:37 -0400s% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> I Subject: Re: Fee Based Email (From Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam...) / Message-ID: <vnjejme0q66c42@news.supernews.com>i  9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messages3 news:blbs3f$9v9oi$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de... . > In article <3F78E20E.2010100@tsoft-inc.com>,, > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > > K > > The real issue is that if something isn't done to stop, or at least put0 someF > > limits on spam, it will totally destroy the usefulness of internet e-mail.t   [snip]  L > But it will never be implemented because there are and will remain to manyK > machines without the ability to play that game.  Sendmail, as we know it,  > is not going away.  3 Sendmail is less ingrained that vinyl records were.t  I A fee based system may be out of reach but I think we can improve SMTP to   make it harder for the spammers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:07:54 -0400u& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>& Subject: Re: Graphics card for AS1000A/ Message-ID: <vnje7t7ali6o8c@news.supernews.com>m   Try a permedia 2 graphics card   Our PN: IC-PBXGK-BC $149 eachc   DT     -- 7 David B Turner Island Computers US Corporationp 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404D Tel: 912 447 6622o Fax: 912 201 0402n Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.netl  ; "Jack Trachtman" <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote in messageu6 news:69d784c4.0309260903.fb76f05@posting.google.com... > AS1000A, VMS V7.3-1  > 4 > I've got this old box in my office to use as a VMS3 > workstation.  It has an S3 Trio64/Trio32 graphicsn  > card, which I want to upgrade. > 0 > Can anyone recommend any graphics cards to use > with this?  Thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:16:57 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG& Subject: Re: Graphics card for AS1000A0 Message-ID: <00A26ADD.9C24A0B8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <vnje7t7ali6o8c@news.supernews.com>, "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes: >Try a permedia 2 graphics cardb >k >Our PN: IC-PBXGK-BC $149 each >l >DTh >h >g >--  >David B Turnera  	 Hi David,t  G I'd actually like a card that will *work* in an AS1200/Digital Ultimateo Workstation.   --  L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 05:03:11 -0700% From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams)i6 Subject: Re: How to use shareable image to share data?= Message-ID: <ea44f5a1.0309300403.39d699be@posting.google.com>i  F I just want to thank you and others for helping me solve this problem.F  We use to have a stable of VMS experts here, but now I am pretty muchC the only one left maintaining VMS systems.  When I get into an areanD that I am not familiar with, I depend often depend on this newgroup.   Thanks.s  v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<ti9a3wIpO8ry@eisner.encompasserve.org>...g > In article <ea44f5a1.0309161228.713de53f@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes:  > E >    Alpha changed the PSECT attribute for Fortran COMMON blocks from-B >    SHR to NOSHR, and requires a symbol_vector option to make the/ >    PSECT name visible in the shareable image.R ...A   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 11:50:15 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)@ Subject: Re: HP to Linux users: "Go ahead.  I've got your back."3 Message-ID: <7PLScDoV9Kmv@eisner.encompasserve.org>t   In article <00A26A0C.3A02A3B5@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:oz > In article <UEUioLumg82f@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: >>L >>Isn't it just possible that Sun has done it's Open Source work, not out ofK >>the goodness of it's heart, but because it's trying hard to find a way toaM >>appear relevant in a world that considers Linux, and not Solaris/Sun, to bet >>the cool fashionable thing ? > O > It's unlikely, given that Sun has invented and released intellectual propertydP > (like NFS, for example) since before either Linux or Open Source (tm, I think)P > was invented.  (Not before freeware and shareware exchange was invented; DECUS0 > was doing that stuff before Sun was invented.) > L > That might be a motivation to _continue_ Open Source development, freeware= > contributions, etc, but it can't be the reason Sun started.a >   G I agree. I was aware that Sun was releasing code and specifications for I general use for different reasons (IIRC, developing Java was Sun's way of I creating a technology that could compete with Microsoft when that was the K major rival) before the current Open Source movement developed but I didn'ty make it clear enough.   J The other thing to bear in mind when reading my comments about Sun is thatK I am suspicious of any company that would directly or indirectly assist SCOD in it's current actions.   Simon.   -- fB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 12:20:17 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: IMACRO (was: New round of cuts at HP)3 Message-ID: <jcQBdPBZyotf@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  [ In article <qBieb.5987$871.4896@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:- > John Gemignani, Jr. wrote: >  > O >> I can't imagine the nightmare that PSC is having moving all of that MACRO-32 Q >> code to IA64 (if they are), especially when its author no longer is associatedl >> with the company. >>   > I > Why?  We have a perfectly fine MACRO-32 compiler for IA64.  Except for cC > code that has some Alpha calling standard knowledge, most of the  H > MACRO-32 code has recompiled untouched (well, some interesting macros L > and a few new directives had to be sprinkled in some common prefix files).  D Well, since everything is in such good shape, you could use the TECOE source as a regression test from VAX, since AMACRO could never handlea it :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:50:12 +0100bO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>c1 Subject: Re: Linux is the favourite hacker targeto0 Message-ID: <blbg45$73d$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<bl8vr0$9ol$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...e > I >>Actually I have explained on a number of occasions, Rob Young started apF >>Sun FUDfest on this newsgroup a few years ago which turned out to be >>complete BS. >>H >>No one likes to see people concocting arrant BS about the company theyG >>work for (even if as Rob suggests this was just a cut and paste errorh* >>on his part) and I was bound to respond. >>F >>When I did I also discovered a group with a prevailing attitude that1 >>previous posters points describe only too well.  >>I >>So I have stayed and its rather like walking with dinsoaurs some of theu >>time.: >>	 >>RegardsH >>Andrew Harrisonl >  > A > actually, Andrew is like most other unix/linux users and is in nA > complete denial of the current and past cert figures ... what I < > gather from him is that "cert" is a dirty word in the unix. > community, certainly the slowaris one ... :)      5 Bob your appology is now overdue get on with it. Your 5 statement that Multinet/TCPWARE were not vunerable tou3 CERT IP based DOS attacks has been proven to be BS.    Crashing Bind is a DOS attack.  6 Less displacement activities BSing and more grovelling   Regardsr Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:16:02 +0200i" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>9 Subject: map port 21 from XP gateway to VMS intranet box?r2 Message-ID: <blc6nl$a29$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>  H Did anyone succeed to map the incoming FTP port 21 of a XP Pro box with 8 a public IP address to a VMS box located in an intranet?  F I did find some properties for the FTP service but did not figure out I how to "tell" the XP box to redirect incoming FTP access to the VMS box. -5 I use internet sharing as I use no ADSL router/modem.f   Thanks,n   D. -- a- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurosi                     Tout VMS.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:36:00 GMTr; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>b$ Subject: Re: New round of cuts at HP: Message-ID: <Apheb.307$qj6.284517@news1.news.adelphia.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaget7 news:d7791aa1.0309260716.7b0474c8@posting.google.com...o+ > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in messagen% news:<bl12pv$cv1$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>...o6 > > In article <3F7293F4.99EA4CEB@istop.com>, JF Mezei# <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:t. > > >http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11738 > > >##uI > > >AS WE'VE REPORTED earlier, a fresh set of cuts is looming at Hewlettu Packard. > > >rH > > > Staff on the wrong side of the 35% line were told last Monday that
 their jobsA > > >are in danger,  and layoffs will take place in late October.a > > >iH > > > But just so that everyone feels a bit happier, the people in Tru64
 strongholdD > > >Nashua, for  example, are getting a visit from Rich Marcello on September 26th > > >between 9.30 to 11. > > >0J > > > He will buy them a cup of coffee and chat about things like walruses
 and kings. > > >##t > > >s > > >eI > > >Does anyone know what impact those cuts have had and are expected tor have on I > > >VMS and its software (especially with respect to TCPIP which needs an lot of& > > >work to get it up to snuff) ????? > >dI > > Thinking about TCPIP. DEC TCPIP services is based on the same code asn	 the TCPIPaH > > stack for Tru64. Since Tru64 is becoming an organ donor for HP-UX on InteldG > > what is happening about future developments of DEC TCPIP services ?sK > > Is the same code for DEC TCPIP services being used on Itanium for VMS ?yK > > Will it continue to be developed for VMS or are we going to see another- major-K > > rewrite (as we had from UCX 4.x to Dec TCPIP services 5.x) with supportm for E > > older versions of VMS being dropped in an attempt to get a common- codebase% > > for TCPIP between VMS and HP-UX ?a > >s > > David Webb > > VMS and Unix team leader > > CCSS > > Middlesex University >yG > if they were smart they would buy TCPware which is still based on the09 > VMS kernel and runs crisper and replace UCX with it ...r  L I can't imagine the nightmare that PSC is having moving all of that MACRO-32 codeI to IA64 (if they are), especially when its author no longer is associatedi with the company.    -John.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:56:41 GMTa; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>-$ Subject: Re: New round of cuts at HP: Message-ID: <ZIheb.318$qj6.289471@news1.news.adelphia.net>  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messageT# news:bl12pv$cv1$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...m >pK > Thinking about TCPIP. DEC TCPIP services is based on the same code as theo TCPIPoL > stack for Tru64. Since Tru64 is becoming an organ donor for HP-UX on IntelE > what is happening about future developments of DEC TCPIP services ?   K     For one thing, once Tru64 is no longer involved in the code, we will nod longer needr0     to put "#ifdef __VMS" in the common modules.  I > Is the same code for DEC TCPIP services being used on Itanium for VMS ?   I     Yes, and for the most part it's running.  I have a few issues to deald with in NFS server     and TNDRIVER at the moment.   I > Will it continue to be developed for VMS or are we going to see another  majoriI > rewrite (as we had from UCX 4.x to Dec TCPIP services 5.x) with supporte fornL > older versions of VMS being dropped in an attempt to get a common codebase# > for TCPIP between VMS and HP-UX ?]  J     It will continue to be developed.  The UCX -> TCPIP was not a rewrite. As partlD     of the IP stack integration with OpenVMS (and VMS engineering in
 general), theGI     project went through a name change.  The UCX version was based on thep commonL     stack code with Ultrix-32.  In order to get the performance improvements	 and IPv6,3J     the choice to move to the Dunix stack was made.  The original plan was to bringI     the TCPIP product to market with the V6.0 version but the update wentr ratherJ     smoothly so the schedule was brought forward and the version numbering	 adjusted.o  H     Since I also put together the build environment, I found that it was easy to port otherL     Dunix/Tru64 pieces rather easily as well.  Since we wanted an NFS server	 with bothgL     TCP and NFSv3 support, we chose to pull in the kernel (protocol) support
 from Tru64I     in TCPIP V5.1.  The underlying file access remained using the earlieru
 TCPIP$CFS_SHR 	     code.>  I     The choice to "drop" support for earlier versions was consistent witho the support foriL     previous versions of OpenVMS.  Since TCPIP was now using newer and newerK     facilities within the operating system, and the OS was marching forwardo in versions>J     and dropping support for older releases behind it, [and since TCPIP is now integratedJ     with the OS], the same policy was adopted.  [I am not saying whether I
 agree here orn1     not, just stating the facts, as I know them.]s  H     Consideration was given to a common code base between HP-UX and VMS. HP-UX G     gets their stack from an outside source, and the licensing does nota allow for VMS to useJ     it.  The thought to bring the Tru64/VMS stack to HP-UX was considered,
 but theirs iscL     stream-based and on Tru64/VMS it is socket based.  The decision was made that weu      would not share a code base.  L     TCPIP services will eventually continue development on its own, although NSK is using     the same code base.d  	     -Johnc   >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:56:54 GMTc& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>$ Subject: Re: New round of cuts at HP2 Message-ID: <qBieb.5987$871.4896@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Gemignani, Jr. wrote:    N > I can't imagine the nightmare that PSC is having moving all of that MACRO-32P > code to IA64 (if they are), especially when its author no longer is associated > with the company.  >   G Why?  We have a perfectly fine MACRO-32 compiler for IA64.  Except for aA code that has some Alpha calling standard knowledge, most of the oF MACRO-32 code has recompiled untouched (well, some interesting macros J and a few new directives had to be sprinkled in some common prefix files).   -- o John Reagant' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader- Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:52:34 +0100rO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>t Subject: Re: Nice touch, AMD0 Message-ID: <blc8s3$fv1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rick Jones wrote:cR > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >>Rick Jones wrote:o >>C >>>I'm afraid that at least some of your understanding is in error.n >> >  >>Humm >  > 5 >>http://docs.hp.com/hpux/pdf/A2375-90003.pdf page 37e >  > A >>Suggests that HP-UX 10.xx when running on the HP K Series coulde >>address up to 8 GB of RAM. >  > E > Which page number of the 146 in the document says that HP-UX 10 canl > address > 4GB of RAM?  y >   < It doesn't however the only OE refered to in the document isB HP-UX 10.xx and there is no errata or other information suggesting> that while the K Series supports 8GB of RAM HP-UX 10 does not.   Regardsh Andrew Harrisonl   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 07:12:48 -0700, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)4 Subject: Re: Oracle 8.1.7.4 on VMS 7.2-2 Performance= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0309300612.51f14cf9@posting.google.com>   ) Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message 8 >Please take a look at the mailbox size Oracle is using " >and maybe at the biolim settings. > D >Oracle uses mailboxes to transfer data to and from user programs to theoD >database engine. Using big mailboxes will improve the speed quite a bit.E >For that purpose there are some special Oracle logicals you can set,S youoF >can find them somewhere in the Oracle VMS manuals (I don't have them  >here right now).l >.% >Increasing the BIOLIM may also help.  > D >What kind of disk subsystem are you using ? Todays PCs can be quite fastC >with just IDE disks. The conventional Qlogic SCSI controllers of ab Alpham >are not really that fast..g >eD >You may also have to look at the MAXBOBMEM parameters in Sysgen, if	 those are-E >applicable in VMS 7.2-2. These parameters are obsolete in VMS 7.3-1.n    C Oracle after version 8.0.5 works better on a two cpu server; but we(' have clients with only one cpu servers..  A The following are my notes regarding optimizing Oracle mailboxes.l% MAXBOBMEM is obsolete in OpenVMS v7.3h    . $ DEFINE /SYSTEM /NOLOG  ORA_BEQ_MBXSIZ  64000. $ DEFINE /SYSTEM /NOLOG  ORA_BEQ_MBXBFQ  64000     EDIT SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT  MIN_DEFMBXBUFQUO=64000 MIN_DEFMBXMXMSG =64000 MIN_MAXBOBMEM  =100000     JimStrehlow@Data911.com. Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:46:41 GMTu$ From: Ken.Moreau@hp.com (Ken Moreau). Subject: Re: OT: Talk about bad luck (Halifax)- Message-ID: <3f7986db.1596104006@news.hp.com>s   Kerry Main wrote:   G >For those that would like to re-visit what one of the worst hurricanesu >was like, check out:e >r2 >http://www.sptimes.com/2002/webspecials02/andrew/  2 Well, if we are comparing hurricane stories... :^)  C I was in Palm Beach when Andrew devastated Homestead: if Andrew hado? taken a right turn instead of a left turn at the Bahamas, thosesB pictures would have been of my neighborhood instead of my parent'sD neighborhood.  My father talks about how they were running from roomB to room to try and find a safe spot, as the beams of wood from theC other destroyed houses would smash into their house and wreck theire< supposed "safe" spot.  They survived with no injuries, but a terrifying few hours.   B But what was most interesting was the pattern of destruction.  The@ local paper tried to find a correlation around which houses wereC destroyed and which survived mostly intact.  They looked at type ofyB construction, location, date of construction, the builders, price,B east vs west facing, and couldn't find any correlation.  Then theyC found a factor which offered an almost perfect, 100% correlation toa whether the house survived:t  % Who inspected it during construction.r  A The local paper then checked the net worth of the inspectors, andeF again found an almost perfect correlation between net worth and amountC of destruction: the higher the net worth of the inspector, the moreuD likely the house was to be destroyed.   And the funny thing was thatF these same inspectors were by far the most productive, with them beingB able to inspect 20, 30 or even 40 houses in a day, where the other: inspectors were lucky to inspect 10 houses in a day... :^)  ( The paper had fun with this for *weeks*!  
 -- Ken Moreaui   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC)k From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?o) Message-ID: <blbpo2$415$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>D  J In article <blag7c$kfg$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:V >In article <3F789087.7B990DE0@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >> >>! >>david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  >>> X >>> In article <3F74CF7F.9D265CA@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: >>> >p >>> >I$ >>> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >>> >>^ >>> >> In article <vn5s22g2nrds0e@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:3 >>> >> ><david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message + >>> >> >news:bkuhsq$dk3$1@news.mdx.ac.uk...p? >>> >> >> In article <3F71D664.D92AAC37@pacbell.net>, Don Sykesa' >>> >> ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:s >>> >> >> >e* >>> >> >> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >>> >> >> >>B >>> >> >> >> In article <3F70934A.3C36DD45@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes' >>> >> ><anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:  >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >h >>> % >>> You need to be a lot more clear. 0 >>) >>I agree. Please read the latest update.  >>- >>> As far as I am concerned their are upto 4 7 >>> parties involved in sending and receiving an email.  >>>  >>> 1) Client sending system >>>  >>> 2) Client's ISP's mailhube >>>  >>> 3) Receiver's ISP's mailhubo >>> ( >>> 4) Receiver's mailbox holding system >>> M >>> (I am ignoring the fact that within organisations there may well be other,M >>> mailhubs through which a mail message may pass between 1 and 2 or between 
 >>> 3 and 4).a >>> . >>> With current protocols mail may transverse >>> L >>> 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4    (mail passes between organisations central mailhubs) >>>  >>> or >>> Q >>> 1 -> 3 -> 4         (1st organisation doesn't have central mailhub or doesn'tt7 >>>                      force mail to pass through it)d >>>  >>> or >>> L >>> 1 -> 2 -> 4         (2nd organisation does not have a central mailhub or= >>>                      doesn't force mail to go through it)e >>>  >>> or >>> N >>> 1 -> 4              (Neither organisation has a central mailhub or neither7 >>>                      force mail to go through them)i >>> >>Not sure I understand this one. Is #4 listening on port 25?  >> >oO >4 is where the user's mail is actually delivered and stored. The mail may thens4 >be picked up from that mail store via pop, imap etcM >Typically the central mailhub will deliver the message to that mailstore viab >SMTP. >m >r >egn >n >    mail from outside >i >      | >      |        SMTP	 >     \ /e >l >a: >3)    Middlesex university central mailhub - running PMDF >n >     |         SMTP >     |e >    \ / >e- >    Internal systems holding users mailboxesw >    egt >m >4)  Sun System  >    PMDF VMS system >    Microsoft Exchange server >    etc >n >h >p >e >   C Ok I've now read the latest version of your protocol. Much clearer. N The only question now is exactly what problem this new protocol is supposed to solve ?d  I Your protocol deals only with transactions between organisation's centrali) mailhubs (my parties 2 and 3 from above).b3 This is not where problems of identification occur.e  L Using current protocols a central mailhub knows the ip address of any systemF talking directly to it and can do a reverse domain lookup. Your second@ connection from the receiver to the sender adds nothing to this.J At the moment there does exist a small possiblity of spoofing however yourO system is exactly as vulnerable as the current standards - this can be improveduG in the future by use of server certificates and SSL/TSL to provide more/" trustworthy mutual authentication.  K The problems of identity are to do with tracking within organisations, withCE non-compliant and badly configured mail systems and with open relays.RH These are NOT protocol issues.  Nobody should be running an open-relay -2 there is even an RFC which states this - RFC 2505.G I note in passing that your protocol is actually pretty weak on this :-   I "The receiving ESP has no obligation to relay messages outside of its ownr domain"   O The only features of your protocol different from current ESMTP implementations> are :-  H 1) Two separate connections  - As stated above this is pretty pointless.L 2) The provision of attachment numbers, sizes and mime types up front before    the actual data is passed.oK    I'm not sure of the point of this.  Virus writers and Microsoft productssL    either lie or ignore this information. Mime is also not the only encodingN    mechanism used in mail messages - eg uuencoded mail, pgp encrypted mail etcL    Also since this is at the central mailhub level only organisational levelO    checks and blocks can be done anyway. I cannot see any reason for wanting tot;    specify individual size blocks for different Mime types.eO    ESMTP can already apply blocks up front for actual size of messages, numbersI    of recipients etc  ! 3) The provision of fee charging.   N    Assuming that 100% identification could be achieved which is a prerequisite    for any charging system.xM    Firstly the costs per MB or whatever should be up front before any sendingsN    of from or recipient addresses. THis could be achieved with ESMP with costsD    being relayed back to the sender in response to the EHLO command.N    Rather than providing a new protocol the additional commands required for aN    feebased system could be added to ESMTP - thats the whole point of ESMTP it    is extensible.g    H    In short I don't see that this protocol provides anything not alreadyL    available in the existing protocols (or which could not be added - in theL    case of charging). In particular it does not provide any additional help 0    in identifying the sender of a piece of mail.      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:21:53 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?I) Message-ID: <blbsh1$4pc$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>I  U In article <3F78D597.BE208A7@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:h  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:R >> As I described below they would just spoof the whole thing not just the phase 2> >> connection. IP numbers, DNS entries etc are easily spoofed. > M >While I realise that an IP is easily spoofed inside a network, can it reallyl >be spoofed outside a network ?e >tL >If I were to spoof some IP, how would response packets get back to me sinceO >existing network level routes would send the packets back to the "real" IP  ? nG >So I wouldn't get the acks back, and the real IP would receive packets G >(including acks) that don't belong to an existing connection and henceh% >wouldn't know what to do with them).e  K I'm not an expert on this area by any means - just going on what I've read. K For many purposes it can be done blind. Where it can't then it becomes more5M complicated. You need to get the packets back to your machine rather than the0M intended machine. This is easy when the two machine are on a switched network  sharing the same router.O For the more general case you either need to poison multiple routers to get the(F packets flowing back through you or poison the DNS so that the initial connection goes to you.i  O For the purposes of this discussion on fee based mail I purposely restricted itiK to the easy case of machines on a switched network sharing the same router.pI All the ISPs logs will show the hacker having had one IP address. All thefL receiving system will have is the spoofed ip address. Hence when it tries to) collect it's fee it will have a hardtime.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:00:04 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukM Subject: Re: Process's PreciseMail AntiSpam Gateway - any experience so far ?t) Message-ID: <blbr84$4f4$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>A  h In article <Ysd2q9KROUC1-pn2-tn8Iv2d2WoN9@news.xs4all.nl>, "Rik Steenwinkel" <rsteenw@xs4all.nl> writes:B >On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:49:54 UTC, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >mK >} How will you enforce this. To work it has to be applied worldwide to all O >} "ISPs" (or at least a majority - since I suppose you would refuse to receiven& >} mail from those who don't sign up).L >} However until a majority have signed up it pays for an ISP NOT TO charge.N >} They will get more customers if they don't charge and their competitor down >} the road does charge. >}  O >} Also until all systems are charging you will be causing chaos since you willl@ >} have destroyed any hope of consistent reliable mail delivery. >tE >Leaving the mail fees issue for a moment, Don's mail protocol still tE >has merit without it. As said, it allows the recipient much greater gE >control whether to accept (rather: collect) a message or not. Also, uG >the meta-message gives a From: someone@sender.domain , so your MUA or gE >MTA then resolves sender.domain and requests its MX to hand out the yG >actual message associated with the Message-ID in the meta-message. So wG >then, even if a spammer puts a plausible-looking From: and Subject: inaB >the meta-message (based on which you decide to accept), the mail @ >servers in the From: domain won't have the message the spammer F >intended to send you, and will probably not even have a message with  >matching Message-ID at all. >bM As the second version of this makes clear this protocol is central mailhub tomE central mailhub. Neither the sender or receiver are the desktop user.sM The protocol provides pretty much nothing which isn't already provided by the M existing protocols. The second connection provides nothing since the existingaF protocol allows the receiver to end the connection at any point in theN dialogue. ESMTP already allows for rejecting messages based on size and numberN of recipients etc. You can already do reverse lookups of from domains, you canO already have lists of blacklisted ip addresses and domains (either generated bynF the people looking after the mailhubs or using centralised RBL lists).K The protocol proposed does NOT provide a mechanism for individual users to .A specify additinal blocks to be provided at the receiving mailhub.s  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University i       >-- ? >// Rik Steenwinkel  #  VMS mercenary  #  Enschede, Netherlandse >// 1024D/CDBAE5C1   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:24:20 GMT + From: "David Pikcilingis" <dcpik@bosbc.com> 3 Subject: Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windows-/ Message-ID: <nmgeb.644471$uu5.104563@sccrnsc04>   4 > What do you have for reading RMS files on non-VMS? >: > -- s > David J. Dachterao > dba DJE SystemsA  H It has been our experience that if the data is needed from the RMS filesL that the application on the non-VMS system is not going to be looking for itJ in an RMS format.  We offer file conversion services to either convert theF files into the format needed by the non-VMS system or provide a custom0 application that will do so on an ongoing basis. .v Regards,   David Pikcilingisr Boston Business Computinga
 www.bosbc.com      ----- Original Message ----- i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Newsgroups: comp.os.vmse) Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 10:21 PM 3 Subject: Re: Read VMS Backup *.bck files in Windowsr     > David Pikcilingis wrote: > >yL > > Boston Business Computing produces and sells OpenVMS emulation tools for > > UNIX systems.  > > H > > We have a product, Vbackup, which will read and write OpenVMS BACKUP save  > > sets on most UNIX platforms.6 > > More information regarding options can be found at > > www.bosbc.com/vbackup.html > >rH > > Boston Business Computing also produces EDT+, a complete VMS EDT for WindowsoK > > and UNIX to reduce frustration when moving from OpenVMS or when workings in@ > > an environment with a number of different operating systems. >  > http://www.djesys.com/ >n* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:48:12 +1000h: From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz>' Subject: Re: RSX.EXE under OpenVMS 7.3?iC Message-ID: <3f798980$0$95050$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>a  I I do seem to remember that there was an RSX coprocessor board for at leatf the early Alphas   -- w David McKenzie  7 David.Mckenzie@paradigm-shift.dot.biz  remove the "dot"r OpenVMS IT Privacy and Law   http://www.paradigm-shift.biza1 "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote in messageo7 news:bdc65a53.0309290613.276b9824@posting.google.com...tD > Mentec (www.mentec-inc.com) sells VAX-11 RSX, the old RSX emulatorH > from the early days of VMS on the VAX. It should run on just about anyF > VAX or MicroVAX platform, even without hardware PDP-11 compatibilityE > mode. Mentec bought RSX-11 and related products from DEC some yearsn > back.@ >.E > I don't know anything about Mentec's prices (or anything else aboutb  > the company, for that matter). >2 >1/ > "JamesG" <jglando@yahoo.net> wrote in messagen+ news:<nMJdb.455718$Oz4.260388@rwcrnsc54>...h > > Hi all,n > >'E > >     Need to run some old college prog's written on a PDP-11 undera	 RSX-11M+. J > > OpenVMS 7.3 (off Hobbyist CD) doesn't seem to have it. Any pointers to: > > where/how I can get this work would be great.. Thanks, > >t > > - Jim L.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:02:46 +0000 (UTC)lP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)' Subject: same or different system roots $ Message-ID: <blccvl$9rp$1@online.de>  H If all goes well, I'll put in a lot of "maintenance work" on my hobbyistG cluster this weekend.  In a couple of days I'll post a list of things IA' plan to do with a request for comments.e  D One of the goals is to upgrade one "master system disk" (i.e. apply H patches, upgrade the OS, install layered products etc) and propagate it I to other systems in the following manner: when the first system is done, 2D break the shadow set, remove one member, use this member as the new F shadow master in the next system etc---at the end, I'll have one disk B left over, which becomes the shadow target in the original system.  G Assuming (at least for now) that all the node-specific stuff is in the aG SYS$SPECIFIC directory and its subdirectories (excluding SYSCOMMON, of  I course), there are three possibilities to allow booting from a different -H node: reconfigure the system to change the node name (and all that that H implies), save a copy of the SYS$SPECIFIC tree and replace it after the 6 upgrade, or have a separate system root for each node.  ? The first possibility certainly works, but is a lot of work and>F difficult to automate.  Thus, several people suggested having separateE system roots, so I was planning on doing that.  A bit more disk spacecG needed, but this involves the least work after it is set up and has thetC additional advantage that I have a backup copy of the node-specificAF stuff on another system to boot (pun intended).  However, someone elseG suggested, IF I HAVE SEPARATE SYSTEM ROOTS, to nevertheless save a copy0A of the root which the node boots from in case I need it after theRE upgrade.  In that case, however, why not just have one root, save it 9I before the upgrade, then copy it back?  It sounds like the upgrade would  I change stuff in the SYS$SPECIFIC tree.  In that case, I would have to do  I a file-by-file and directory-by-directory comparison before and after to  D see what had changed (though after doing it for the first node, the  others would be easier).  I So, my question is, what (if anything) in the SYS$SPECIFIC tree would an m upgrade touch?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:40:25 -05001* From: Patrick Spinler <pspinler@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: SSH for VMS( Message-ID: <3F7987C9.6020807@yahoo.com>   Richard L. Dyson wrote:fA > I believe (same is true for Process Software's SSH for OpenVMS)eF > that you can not run an SSH or SCP session from a command proc.  No E > combination of "Define ..." will work for you.  It always goes backe@ > to the interactive terminal device.  It would be sure nice for > a batch job, wouldn't it!a  H Whatever gave you that idea ?  (forgive the line wrapping in my example  below)      $ ssh "ap00375@ctswbdev" ls      Authentication successful.L7    #script.sh#       all_keys~        createnodes.txt~ r id_dsa_2048_a.pub  tmpC    SSH9-24-2003.DOC  bin              dawns_keys        ingres.tar o     work<    all_keys          createnodes.txt  id_dsa.pub        keys      $ create test.com    $ ssh "ap00375@ctswbdev" ls     Exit!    $ submit test.com/keep/noprint D    Job TEST (queue LPSRVM$BATCH, entry 9607) started on LPSRVM$BATCH    $ type test.log    $ oH !***********************************************************************I    $ !*    SYLOGIN.COM - Site-dependent login command file for all Nodes       <snip other stuff here>O    #script.sh#    SSH9-24-2003.DOCt    all_keyso    all_keys~    bin    createnodes.txt    createnodes.txt~o
    dawns_keysb
    id_dsa.pubn    id_dsa_2048_a.pub
    ingres.tara    keysc    tmp    workr;      PJS11        job terminated at 30-SEP-2003 08:35:45.60b  : I'm using multinet's ssh product on top tcpip services 5.3   -- Pat     > 3 > (Just like you can't run Telnet from one either).  > C > I have talked with the product and engineering teams for both andhD > asked to make this possible (as well as the SCP transfers too) but. > I have no idea when/if it will be available. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:55:42 +0100i0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>$ Subject: Re: symbiont housekeeping ?4 Message-ID: <blbgee$5oo$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Martin Hunt wrote:B > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:00:10 +0200, labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr> > wrote: >  >  >>Chris Sharman wrote: >>5 >>>We seem to have a lot of symbionts hanging around.-E >>>We believe they're mostly lpd symbionts, possibly not dying after L >>>stop/q/reset.G >>>We had to reboot today, because they'd filled all the available pcb y >>>slots (after 9 months). >>>  >>>tcpip 5.1 eco 3, vms 7.3. >>>sI >>>Can you confirm where these symbionts come from, and suggest a way of  . >>>distinguishing & killing off the dead ones. >>F >>I can't suggest a way of killing  the dead ones, but I am sure that  >>Tcpip 5.1 Eco 5 is the latesto > % > It can't be. I'm running V5.3 ECO 2p  5 Well, yes, I know there are later & greater versions.  Is this issue fixed there ?rH stop/id is, as David suggested, effective in killing the dead ones, but # identifying them is more difficult.h  A I suppose I could parse "show process" for the allocated devices  @ (bgnnn), but then how to tell a dead bg device from a live one ?   Chriss   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:15:59 -0400X* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: symbiont housekeeping ?) Message-ID: <3F79498F.B8D8C73B@istop.com>    Chris Sharman wrote:B > I suppose I could parse "show process" for the allocated devicesB > (bgnnn), but then how to tell a dead bg device from a live one ?  M Normally, you shouldn't have more symbionts than you have queues. A queue cand- only have a single symbiont as far as I know.s  8 When a machine dumps a file to be printed via LPD, it isE sys$system:TCPIP$LPD_RUN.COM which is executed, and this one executes K TCPIP$LPD_rcv.exe  which I assume gets the data and then queues it. So thisp3 shouldn't be starting any symbiont in an by itself.    Perhaps doing:  ? PIPE SHOW DEV/FILES/NOSYS <disk> | SEARCH SYS$INPUT SYMBIONT_xx   J would tell you which files a particular symbiont has opened and this might! yield a clue on its role in life.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:02:55 GMTe- From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1>e$ Subject: Re: symbiont housekeeping ?0 Message-ID: <3afeb.5960$aS.984@news.cpqcorp.net>  C "Martin Hunt" <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz> wrote in message 2 news:dj2invoo3ip09p9sd9o2oo7tl4tpl7i9g1@4ax.com...B > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:00:10 +0200, labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr> > wrote: >o > >Chris Sharman wrote:o > >> tcpip 5.1 eco 3, vms 7.3. > >> > >>  F > >I can't suggest a way of killing  the dead ones, but I am sure that  > >Tcpip 5.1 Eco 5 is the latest > >:-) >a% > It can't be. I'm running V5.3 ECO 2n  - Talking about Tcpip 5.1, Eco 5 is the latest.s( For Tcpip 5.3, yes, Eco 2 is the latest.  H When you Have Tcpip 5.1, gong to Eco 5 from Eco 3 should be simpler than going to 5.3 from 5.1i   :-)r   Grard   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:05:35 GMTs; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net>sA Subject: Re: TCP/IP development (was Re: New round of cuts at HP)l: Message-ID: <jRheb.322$qj6.291435@news1.news.adelphia.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3F748A8C.9717C215@istop.com...i > Keith Parris wrote:sG > > While there will eventually be fewer engineers contributing code tof> > > that code base (as Tru64 new-code development ramps down), >uJ > Isn't the "eventually" already happening ? How many contractors who work onJ > the VMS TCPIP product are being let go by HP ? Are they being replaced ? >m       Can't speak on that one.  J > And since NSK is so different from VMS, can they really expect to have a5 > common code base between VMS and NSK TCPIP stacks ?s  G     The "common code" is in the area of the IP stack and all supportingb pieces (i.e. the utilitiesK     and special daemons which work with the kernel).  The OS-specific areasd are in the $QIO6B     layer and the interface to the network.  The protocol stack is sandwiched in between them.1  G     For TCPIP Services the special areas of work are in the loading andi unloading of the kernelcE     and the various other support subsystems (NFS, proxy, INETDRIVER,  TNDRIVER, etc)K     ... keep in mind that the Tru64 equivalent of an unload-reload sequence  is the BOOT button.o  L     For V5.4 substantial work went into performance improvements [outside of the common kernel]C     specifically in the VMS-related areas of spinlocks, SMP and then manipulation of data.  The IA64      effort is going into V5.5.  	     -Johnl   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 05:41:18 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)E Subject: Re: TCPWARE v5.4-3 Patch 19.0, TCPware_FTP process "hanging" = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0309300441.11d233a8@posting.google.com>s  t "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<h9WcnQkdvr-eMeWiU-KYgA@brightview.com>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0309250511.735648a6@posting.google.com...eH > > "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message2 >  news:<bMKdnad6EtFNuO-iU-KYjQ@brightview.com>...9 > > > X-posted to c.o.v because it seems that nobody uses I > > > vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.tcpware any more, other than film pirates...  > > >lN > > > I don't suppose anyone here is still running TCPWARE at v5.4-3, is using9 > > > Patch #19, and is having FTP work with no problems?) > > @ > > we have had no problems with it, although we are not running0 > > 1000 simultaneous connections at once ... :) > % > Apologies for the delay in posting.  > 9 > I should have said that OpenVMS/AXP is running at 7.2-1y > J > We don't have 1000 simultaneous connections...  In fact, we don't use itJ > at all (but it has to be on the system because customers have it, and we, > are migrating away from DECnet to TCP/IP).  @ why would you want to give up all the features of decnet for theA archaic ones in IP ... did you know that you can run decnet phase-A IV over IP in TCPware?  I don't think I would get off of tcpware!    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:29:04 +0800N/ From: "Yong Boon, Lim" <limyb@megasteel.com.my>6> Subject: UCX Ping can't be used by user with NETBMX and TMPMBX* Message-ID: <blbje2$sb5$1@news5.jaring.my>   Hi,.  %    l've created a user Test as shown,   =    Username: TEST                             Owner:  TESTINGrH    Account:  USER                             UIC:    [200,202] ([TEST])?    CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES '    Default:  USER$DISK:[MEGA.USER.TEST]i
    LGICMD:	    Flags: &    Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri.    Secondary days:                     Sat Sun    No access restrictionseG    Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     2 A    Pwdlifetime:         90 00:00    Pwdchange:  15-SEP-2003 16:45 A    Last Login: 25-SEP-2003 11:45 (interactive), 16-SEP-2003 10:12V (non-interactiv)<    Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:       100  Bytlm:        64000<    Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0<    Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       150  JTquota:       4096<    Prclm:          10  DIOlm:       150  WSdef:         2000<    Prio:            4  ASTlm:       325  WSquo:         4000<    Queprio:         4  TQElm:        10  WSextent:     16384<    CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:      2000  Pgflquo:      50000    Authorized Privileges:s      NETMBX       TMPMBX    Default Privileges:      NETMBX       TMPMBX    @    As l try to use UCX to ping LOCALHOST or one of my client PC,    l get no feedback from UCX.         $ ucx ping localhost       $          $ ucx ping 192.168.2.9       $p  A    If l login to the system as SYSTEM, then everything is workinga    fine.       $ ucx ping localhost(       %UCX-I-LOOPACT, LOCALHOST is alive       $ ucx ping 192.168.2.9*       %UCX-I-LOOPACT, 192.168.2.9 is alive  B    What other privileges are required in order for me to 'see' theF    client? Because l need to invoke process to start DECwindow ManagerJ    on the client PC. Besides, the user should have only minimum privileges!    to effectively use the system.      Thank!   Yong Boon, Lim.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:07:10 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>B Subject: Re: UCX Ping can't be used by user with NETBMX and TMPMBX( Message-ID: <3F79558A.C9C7DAE@istop.com>   "Yong Boon, Lim" wrote:iB >    As l try to use UCX to ping LOCALHOST or one of my client PC,  >    l get no feedback from UCX.  C The printed documentation mentions that it requires OPER privilege.   L Remember that Ping has been used to attack remote systems (ping of death) so8 by default, you may not wish to enable it to the public.  M If you really want any user to use ping, you can install the image with OPER:   = $INSTALL ADD SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$PING.EXE /OPEN/SHARED/PRIV=OPERX  K This way, an unprivileged user could then use ping and the image would havetE the OPER priv needed. But you need to carefully consider the securitys implications for this.  D (Although if users have ping available on their wintel boxes, (whichJ implicitely have no security), then restricting ping on VMS doesn't really change much.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:13:18 -0400e* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>B Subject: Re: UCX Ping can't be used by user with NETBMX and TMPMBX3 Message-ID: <b6heb.2330$G1.11256@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   I On top of that you can set appropriate protection on PING.EXE so that nota all users can execute it.R   --   SyltremA   OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---fA "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> a crit dans le message den" news:3F79558A.C9C7DAE@istop.com... > "Yong Boon, Lim" wrote:(D > >    As l try to use UCX to ping LOCALHOST or one of my client PC," > >    l get no feedback from UCX. > E > The printed documentation mentions that it requires OPER privilege.a >rK > Remember that Ping has been used to attack remote systems (ping of death)3 so: > by default, you may not wish to enable it to the public. >oI > If you really want any user to use ping, you can install the image withv OPER:- >n? > $INSTALL ADD SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$PING.EXE /OPEN/SHARED/PRIV=OPERs >aH > This way, an unprivileged user could then use ping and the image would haveG > the OPER priv needed. But you need to carefully consider the security> > implications for this. >/F > (Although if users have ping available on their wintel boxes, (whichL > implicitely have no security), then restricting ping on VMS doesn't really > change much.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 07:26:30 -0700  From: wmr282@hotmail.com (w m r) Subject: Re: Virtul Tape Driverr= Message-ID: <398c9ca7.0309300626.66f7cce1@posting.google.com>   _ Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in message news:<00A264D0.22DC3792.2@tachysoft.com>...a  2 > Ah, got it.  That's exactly what I use TS11 for.  E I seem to remember (writing) that program years ago (15+).  It's kindm< of strange (good) that someone is using it!  It did the job.  O > I have the pseudo drives set up to unload after use, but I don't have to loadnQ > those anyway.  I have a virtual jukebox that the virtual tape drives reside in,nH > so I can use MRU and JB to load the virtual drives automatically.  :-)   That too (well JB anyway).  mH > Yes, I sometimes wind up with a dozen dead pseudodrives before finally > rebooting the test machine.  > O > In addition to the speed, I have added some other features to ts11 to make itiN > useful for testing applications that write to tape drives.  For instance, toN > more closely simulate a tape drive, I can deliberately induce parity errors,P > fatal controller errors, or any other tape drive error at any time to test theQ > software's error handling.  The virtual tapes can be set to different lengths. oN > You can make them short to test end-of-volume processing, or endless so thatP > any amount of data will go into them.  I was using this recently because I hadM > a problem during the backup recording pass.  I wanted a big backup so theresN > would be lots of files to record, but with ts11 I didn't really have to wait$ > for the actual backup to complete. > O > TS11 even simulates the LCD panel for the tape drive.  Tapesys writes to thisFO > when loading tapes, and with ts11 I can test that, even though my actual tapeX > drives don't have displays.0 >  > Wayner  . You have been busy!  How you doing these days?   Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:42:18 +0200o$ From: "John Apps" <john.apps@hp.com>; Subject: Re: VMS JVM implementation of sub-process deletionw* Message-ID: <3f79b356@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C38782.94DE4A00h Content-Type: text/plain;w 	charset="Windows-1252"e+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable:  3 I checked this with some folks and their reply was:e  F # 1 appears to be a "feature" of the CRTL. I have notified the folks =E there and they are looking into it. Hope to hear back from them soon.a  8 # 2 appears to be the "way it should work". For example: $ type t.com $spawn/nowait @t1a $ wait 00:00:05o $ write sys$Output "waiting 5" $ exit  
 $ type t1.comw $!spawn/nowait @t1 $ wait 00:00:10  $ write sys$Output "waiting 10"e $ exit $spawn/nowait @t- %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_137 spawned=20s6 $ %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_178 spawned waiting 5G SECURE::SYSTEM 08:57:48 (DCL) CPU=3D00:00:38.22 PF=3D12630 IO=3D84078 =e	 MEM=3D171  $vC ^^^^^See waiting 10 never appeared, the child was stop along with = 
 SYSTEM_137  I Not sure if the above helps a great deal? Let's take this offline if it =r does not!=20E One quick (inevitable) question: have you tried this with any other =n versions of VMS and Java?v   Cheers, john> "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message =1 news:xL6db.12536$Wd7.5281@nwrddc03.gnilink.net... J > I'm seeing a couple of inconsistencies trying to control sub-processes = usinghC > the java API calls in 'Process'.  Specifically, I'm trying to use H > Process.destroy() to abort a sub-process that has been created.  I'm = usinghI > the classic (.vs. FAST) JVM interactively.  I'm running on VMS 7.3-1, =s JAVA" > SDK 1.3.1-4 installed on a DS10. >=20J > Inconsistency #1:  At the time of the destroy call, if the sub-process = isG > executing in DCL (various things -- a $WAIT statement, $writes to a =e log3B > file, etc.), the destroy call appears to be ignored -- the DCL =	 procedurePI > keeps going -- it will even continue to run other executable images.  =$ If theF > sub-process is executing a program when the destroy call is issued = (onlyaE > attempted in USER mode), the sub-process is deleted right away as =n would be > expected.i >=20G > Inconsistency #2: If, as above, the sub-process is executing in DCL =F when theH > destroy call is issued, if I then exit the JAVA program that created = thevG > sub-process (say via CNTL-Y), the sub-process immediately disappears,e) > instead of continuing as it does above.s >=20J > It would appear that Process.destroy() is not implemented via $DELPRC, = as IH > would expect to see that termination status (%X2BD4) in the accountingJ > records.  If it were implemented via $FORCEX, I would have expected to = see>J > the 'force exit pending' bit in the process control status set, but it = isF > not.  If it was implemented by some sort of user-mode AST, I would = expectI > that as soon as the DCL runs a program in user-mode, the AST would be =0 pickedC > up, but SDA doesn't show any AST's active/pending/blocked for thee5 > sub-process after the destroy() function is called.  >=20G > All of this can be worked-around -- but I was wondering if I'm just =n missing G > something or is this a feature.  I can't find anything in the release : > notes/API documentation/etc. that mentions these things. >=20' > Thanx in advance for any information., >=20 > + ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C38782.94DE4A00t Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="Windows-1252" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable>  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =s charset=3Dwindows-1252">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR>o <STYLE></STYLE>d </HEAD>> <BODY>@ <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I checked this with&nbsp;some = folks&nbsp;and their=20  reply was:</FONT></DIV>r4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>G <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2># 1 appears to be a "feature" of the =  CRTL. I have=20 J notified the folks there and they are looking into it. Hope to hear back = from=20i them soon.</FONT></DIV> 4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>G <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2># 2 appears to be the "way it should =p
 work". For=20p example:</FONT></DIV>hB <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ type t.com</FONT></ADDRESS>G <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$spawn/nowait @t1</FONT></ADDRESS> E <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ wait 00:00:05</FONT></ADDRESS>MB <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ write sys$Output "waiting = 5"</FONT></ADDRESS> < <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ exit</FONT></ADDRESS>< <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</ADDRESS>C <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ type t1.com</FONT></ADDRESS>rH <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$!spawn/nowait @t1</FONT></ADDRESS>E <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ wait 00:00:10</FONT></ADDRESS>eC <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ write sys$Output "waiting=20b 10"</FONT></ADDRESS>< <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ exit</FONT></ADDRESS>F <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$spawn/nowait @t</FONT></ADDRESS>I <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_137 =e
 spawned=20 </FONT></ADDRESS> @ <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process = SYSTEM_178 spawned=20t waiting 5</FONT></ADDRESS>D <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>SECURE::SYSTEM 08:57:48 (DCL) = CPU=3D00:00:38.22=200 PF=3D12630 IO=3D84078 MEM=3D171</FONT></ADDRESS>7 <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$</FONT></ADDRESS>tJ <ADDRESS><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>^^^^^See waiting 10 never appeared, = the child=20/ was stop along with SYSTEM_137</FONT></ADDRESS>e4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>F <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not sure if the above helps a great = deal? Let's=20/ take this offline if it does not! </FONT></DIV>PH <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One quick (inevitable) question: have = you tried=20: this with any other versions of VMS and Java?</FONT></DIV>4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>: <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers, john</FONT></DIV>? <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Ken Randell" &lt;</FONT><A=20 A href=3D"mailto:kenneth.randell@verizon.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20eC size=3D2>kenneth.randell@verizon.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =  size=3D2>&gt; wrote=20 in message </FONT><A =@ href=3D"news:xL6db.12536$Wd7.5281@nwrddc03.gnilink.net"><FONT=20 face=3DArial =J size=3D2>news:xL6db.12536$Wd7.5281@nwrddc03.gnilink.net</FONT></A><FONT=20H face=3DArial size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; = I'm seeing a=20 I couple of inconsistencies trying to control sub-processes using<BR>&gt; =p the java=20tH API calls in 'Process'.&nbsp; Specifically, I'm trying to use<BR>&gt;=20G Process.destroy() to abort a sub-process that has been created.&nbsp; =d I'm=20D using<BR>&gt; the classic (.vs. FAST) JVM interactively.&nbsp; I'm =
 running on=20eB VMS 7.3-1, JAVA<BR>&gt; SDK 1.3.1-4 installed on a DS10.<BR>&gt; = <BR>&gt;=20 A Inconsistency #1:&nbsp; At the time of the destroy call, if the =e sub-process=20C is<BR>&gt; executing in DCL (various things -- a $WAIT statement, =  $writes to a=20dH log<BR>&gt; file, etc.), the destroy call appears to be ignored -- the = DCL=20E procedure<BR>&gt; keeps going -- it will even continue to run other =i
 executable=20iJ images.&nbsp; If the<BR>&gt; sub-process is executing a program when the =
 destroy=20J call is issued (only<BR>&gt; attempted in USER mode), the sub-process is =
 deleted=20I right away as would be<BR>&gt; expected.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Inconsistency =M
 #2: If,=20H as above, the sub-process is executing in DCL when the<BR>&gt; destroy =
 call is=20B issued, if I then exit the JAVA program that created the<BR>&gt; = sub-process=20C (say via CNTL-Y), the sub-process immediately disappears,<BR>&gt; =g
 instead of=20pE continuing as it does above.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It would appear that=20eF Process.destroy() is not implemented via $DELPRC, as I<BR>&gt; would = expect to=20@ see that termination status (%X2BD4) in the accounting<BR>&gt; = records.&nbsp; If=20G it were implemented via $FORCEX, I would have expected to see<BR>&gt; = 
 the 'force=20 I exit pending' bit in the process control status set, but it is<BR>&gt;=20 J not.&nbsp; If it was implemented by some sort of user-mode AST, I would=20I expect<BR>&gt; that as soon as the DCL runs a program in user-mode, the =a AST=20= would be picked<BR>&gt; up, but SDA doesn't show any AST's=20eH active/pending/blocked for the<BR>&gt; sub-process after the destroy() = function=20 G is called.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All of this can be worked-around -- but I =b was=20> wondering if I'm just missing<BR>&gt; something or is this a = feature.&nbsp; I=20tI can't find anything in the release<BR>&gt; notes/API documentation/etc. =  that=20aC mentions these things.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanx in advance for any=20a3 information.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; </FONT></BODY></HTML>u  - ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01C38782.94DE4A00--o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:59:21 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>g! Subject: Re: VMS Security Rundown : Message-ID: <teeeb.249$qj6.234515@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Robert Deininger wrote:nE > In article <pcVdb.689$Vb3.596869@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "John E.i( > Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:  > H > Well yes.  But the frame that should contain all of the manuals in the, > main VMS set is ... empty.  Most annoying.  E They are visible to me.  For some reason on the external HP pages, I r= have to Open Link in New Window to follow links from Mozilla.3   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:04:43 +0100a( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>! Subject: Re: VMS Security Rundownp9 Message-ID: <blbv1d$ah9vu$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>@  8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message4 news:teeeb.249$qj6.234515@news1.news.adelphia.net... > Robert Deininger wrote:eG > > In article <pcVdb.689$Vb3.596869@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "John E.u) > > Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:  > >tJ > > Well yes.  But the frame that should contain all of the manuals in the. > > main VMS set is ... empty.  Most annoying. >uF > They are visible to me.  For some reason on the external HP pages, I? > have to Open Link in New Window to follow links from Mozilla.e >u7 Could you have your Mozilla protections set too tight ? L I had something similar in a close relative, Firebird, where I could not seeH navigation links. it turned out to be that I had set it to accept imagesH only from the originating server. The page in question was pulling imageK files from a different URL, so Firebird did what I had told it to do, don'td display them...U     -- John Travell" Independent VMS crashdump analyst. john- at - jomatech - dot - coms +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/2003    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:20:27 GMTl& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>" Subject: Re: VMS system on the web8 Message-ID: <6m3jnvs0j76ghku87mf792t27ulnmfsluf@4ax.com>  J On 28 Sep 2003 17:58:38 GMT, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  * >In article <3F77150E.943731CE@istop.com>,. >	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:eE >>> One, the school has a responsibility to provide all the necessaryhG >>> resources for all school work. You can not base course requirementse7 >>> on unusual equipment requirements for the student. r >> rO >> This does not prevent a teacher to have "clustering" in his course contents,d >aD >You are assuming that the teacher even knows what VMS is, much lessC >that he/she has the requisite knowledge to add any real content ons
 >the subject.l >oP >> and this does not prevent the teacher from discussing VMS clustering features
 >> in class. i >  >See above.i  K As a teacher of computing technology/architecture, it's fair to expect thaty? the professors would have a working knowledge of many differente$ architectures and operating systems.  H They don't have to have a working platform to study the concepts and useH them as a course of study - when I was in college, this was very common.  K I'd expect a professor who's focus is on reliability to consider OpenVMS astI a case study in how to engineer & implement stability from the ground up.tC Including areas of calling standards, signalling standards, messaget) standards, command syntax standards, etc.p  K I'd likewise expect a professor who's focus is on availability architecturemE of computer systems to include VMScluster architecture as part of theoI curriculum.  The architecture is not as "new" as beowolf clusters, but ithK certainly has many well-designed components (some very unique), and it is anH really good study of the benefits and trade-offs to consider in computer
 architecture.   I Neither of those require having actual platforms on-hand to do the study.eD I had Tannenbaum books as part of my study in CS, and never had real% platforms to learn the concepts from.t  J The motivation for teaching should be that the architectures have value inC the comparison & contrast of different aspects of system design andhJ architecture.  There's plenty of documentation available (Internals & DataA Structures, VMScluster Internals, In Search of Clusters, etc.) to.  facilitate the learning process.  E CS courses in universities should be focused on learning from what isdE available, as well as searching for improvements and innovation whereeA possible.  I see no valid argument for not considering any uniquetH architecture or platform, and particularly not one that's played such an4 important part in computing history in this country.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:14:44 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>z" Subject: Re: VMS system on the webJ Message-ID: <UZheb.168463$Lnr1.56836@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   jlsue wrote:E > On 28 Sep 2003 17:58:38 GMT, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  > wrote: > , >> In article <3F77150E.943731CE@istop.com>,/ >> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:d >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >>>> One, the school has a responsibility to provide all the necessaryH >>>> resources for all school work. You can not base course requirements7 >>>> on unusual equipment requirements for the student.l >>> F >>> This does not prevent a teacher to have "clustering" in his course
 >>> contents,A >>F >> You are assuming that the teacher even knows what VMS is, much lessE >> that he/she has the requisite knowledge to add any real content on@ >> the subject.n >>= >>> and this does not prevent the teacher from discussing VMSo! >>> clustering features in class.  >>
 >> See above.a >.A > As a teacher of computing technology/architecture, it's fair tohC > expect that the professors would have a working knowledge of manyt0 > different architectures and operating systems. >oF > They don't have to have a working platform to study the concepts andF > use them as a course of study - when I was in college, this was very	 > common.- >-B > I'd expect a professor who's focus is on reliability to considerG > OpenVMS as a case study in how to engineer & implement stability from A > the ground up. Including areas of calling standards, signalling@> > standards, message standards, command syntax standards, etc. >o@ > I'd likewise expect a professor who's focus is on availabilityE > architecture of computer systems to include VMScluster architecture A > as part of the curriculum.  The architecture is not as "new" as F > beowolf clusters, but it certainly has many well-designed componentsG > (some very unique), and it is a really good study of the benefits andn2 > trade-offs to consider in computer architecture. > D > Neither of those require having actual platforms on-hand to do theD > study. I had Tannenbaum books as part of my study in CS, and never0 > had real platforms to learn the concepts from. >tC > The motivation for teaching should be that the architectures haveiC > value in the comparison & contrast of different aspects of systemeE > design and architecture.  There's plenty of documentation availablehB > (Internals & Data Structures, VMScluster Internals, In Search of5 > Clusters, etc.) to facilitate the learning process.h > G > CS courses in universities should be focused on learning from what isbG > available, as well as searching for improvements and innovation where C > possible.  I see no valid argument for not considering any uniquesG > architecture or platform, and particularly not one that's played suche9 > an important part in computing history in this country.l    K Those profsjust have to be aware that it existed once upon a time, and thate it currently does exist.  L Many of the current CS faculty at many schools are under the age of 35. TheyJ would have grown-up using unix and MS products, not VMS. They may not know5 of VMS at all in either historic or current contexts.   I Funny thing...that's where marketing and advertising kicks in. It createsiI awareness, which begets curiosity, which begets new sales....something HPe/ blissfully seems to ignore with respect to VMS.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:14:41 +0200u$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>; Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)f9 Message-ID: <blbq8n$ahd0b$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>c  ' On 2003-09-30 00:25, "Dirk Munk" wrote:e  5 > I visited this seminar too, but attended both days.  > J > The first thing that struck everyone (incl. HP) was how many people had S > subscribed to the seminar. A staggering 400 VMS enthousiast were there on one or sS > both days. Compare that to 50 ~ 70 people turnout on the similar sessions in the  +                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ M > UK, Germany or Austria. It was so much of a success that at the end of the  
       ^^^^^^^rR > seminar (the first one of this kind in the Netherlands) that HP announced  they : > already had allocated a budget for a seminar next year !  3 That could be the result of "stealth marketing" ...    > [...]y > H > So all in all a great seminar, and I hope to attend next year as well.   So do I.   Michaels   --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system.T= And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 05:14:26 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)M; Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)i< Message-ID: <857e9e41.0309300414.a4facf6@posting.google.com>  
 Dear Hans,  E Thanks for your very positive feedback, we really apreciate it and ity7 helps with justification for the project for next year.   F I showed the Fraport video in NL but the Bank Austria video in Canada,F both are excellent testimonials.  The reason I chose the Fraport video@ for NL is that there are a number of comments in the video aboutC Oracle 9i and there were a few customers interested in seeing that.s Both are available on the web.  
 Warm Regards,  Suea  i "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote in message news:<bl9jbh$9p0m0$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>...-8 > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> schreef in bericht4 > news:gpEdb.1114$ab5.42609@news20.bellglobal.com... > >n7 > > "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> wrote in message.7 > > news:bl3tjh$7o071$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de...  > >:
 > > [snip] > > M > > > happened but handled it very well. It does prove that VMS is still veryt >  muchlM > > > alive, at least in this country. It also proved without a doubt that HPo >  isnL > > > backing VMS and that the OS does have a future. I've got to admit that >  sinceM > > > the dark days of Bob Palmer, let alone Compaq, I did not have much hope  >  thatsJ > > > VMS would ever live to be 30 years old but this symposium absolutely
 >  removedJ > > > that doubt. VMS engineering is improving parts of the OS that hadn't >  beend! > > > touched in the last decade.  > >c
 > > [snip] > >oM > > I came away with the exact same feeling after attending the VMS Technicale% > > Update seminar in Ottawa, Canada.i > >hM > > p.s. Did they talk about the good stuff happening at the Bank of Austria?  > >nB > No, but it may have been mentioned on Friday. Can you elaborate?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:42:22 GMTb" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)00 Message-ID: <00A26AB7.4029ABFA@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <857e9e41.0309300414.a4facf6@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes: >Dear Hans,  >lF >Thanks for your very positive feedback, we really apreciate it and it8 >helps with justification for the project for next year. > G >I showed the Fraport video in NL but the Bank Austria video in Canada,vG >both are excellent testimonials.  The reason I chose the Fraport videobA >for NL is that there are a number of comments in the video aboutcD >Oracle 9i and there were a few customers interested in seeing that. >Both are available on the web.i  ? URLs?  I hope they are in MPG format so I can watch them on the ? 42" plasma.  FYI, the VMS@25 videos are really cool on the "bigB screen". -- lL VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 12:18:07 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley); Subject: Re: VMS Technical Update seminar (the Netherlands)f3 Message-ID: <GPo3N166UkhJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  G In article <3F78B16A.6030603@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:0 > O > Brad McCusker gave us a great presentation about the Unix shell in VMS. In a 1R > couple of years time, VMS will have a complete Unix shell, and can then be used P > as any true Unix (without the security bugs I hope). At the same time it will P > remain VMS, and we will still have our trusted VMS DCL commands. (I only hope Q > all the ported Unix stuff we now have will also get a true VMS CLI interface).  6 > This presentation was also greeted with enthousiasm. >   L I, for one, am looking forward to this. The idea of been able to compile andH run the latest Linux application on VMS with few or no changes is a very	 nice one.e   Simon.   -- :B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:08:54 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: VMS731_DISMOU-V0100 - What are the issues?u? Message-ID: <OFF68391DB.A731A196-ON85256DB1.005DC187@metso.com>"  F If one patches to get the retro behavior, what would happen at V7.3-2?  D But more to the point, why would one want one or the other behavior?   -Normn ------------; TITLE: OpenVMS VMS731_DISMOU-V0100 Alpha V7.3-1 ECO Summarye  )      System/Cluster Reboot Necessary:  Noa  %      Installation Rating: INSTALL_3 : =        To be installed by customers experiencing the problemss1                                        corrected.    PROBLEMS ADDRESSED IN THIS KIT  5 New problems addressed in the VMS731_DISMOU-V0100 kitc        o  VMS731_DISMOU-V0100.RNOc  G                A change made for OpenVMS V7.3-1 to delete write bitmapseE                when a virtual unit is dismounted.  The purpose of thehH                change was to return memory to the system.  However, someG                customers depend on the master bitmap remaining, even ifq-                the virtual unit is dimounted.b  G                Since customers who wish to have the bitmaps deleted canrF                manually delete them, this change removes the code thatB                deletes the bitmap and reverts functionality to theC                pre-V7.3-1 state.  Customers that want to delete any D                unwanted bitmaps can do so via SHOW BITMAP and DELETEA                BITMAP commands.  These commands have been part of-$                OpenVMS since V7.2-2.  4                Images Affected:[SYSLIB]DISMNTSHR.EXE   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2003 05:08:25 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)w/ Subject: Re: WTB:  Dectape II (TU58) Cartridges4= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0309300408.1235930e@posting.google.com>o  
 Dear Tony,  C Last week in the Netherlands, I had the chance to meet folks from a.E company called QIT solutions  www.QITsolutions.nl and they specialisemF in older equipment.  Michel Jacobs was the person, phone number 31 (0) 182 399 405o  F There is also a company in Mass. that also does the same thing, let me try and find them as well.   Sue     { Tony Bolton <TBolton@REMOVEmhl.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message news:<3f790865$0$95051$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>...oI > Yes I really need some cartridges, those I have (hundreds) are failing  K > from old age so I would like to buy up to 50 if they are likely to be in eJ > reasonable condition. Those stored in a temperature/humidity controlled ? > environment suitable for mag tape are more likely to survive.y >  >  > --  ) >                                 Regardsl- >                                 Tony Boltoni8 >                            TBolton 'at' mhl.nsw.gov.au9 >                            MANLY HYDRAULICS LABORATORY.e8 >                           110 King ST. Manly Vale 2093- >                           Sydney  AUSTRALIAiC >                           Phone +61 2 99490200 FAX +61 2 99486185N5 >                           http://www.mhl.nsw.gov.aug   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:39:42 GMTS" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: WTB:  Dectape II (TU58) Cartridges 0 Message-ID: <00A26AB6.E0777640@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <857e9e41.0309300408.1235930e@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:  >Dear Tony,y > D >Last week in the Netherlands, I had the chance to meet folks from aF >company called QIT solutions  www.QITsolutions.nl and they specialiseG >in older equipment.  Michel Jacobs was the person, phone number 31 (0)g >182 399 405 >6G >There is also a company in Mass. that also does the same thing, let me  >try and find them as well.  >  >Sue >l > | >Tony Bolton <TBolton@REMOVEmhl.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message news:<3f790865$0$95051$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>...J >> Yes I really need some cartridges, those I have (hundreds) are failing L >> from old age so I would like to buy up to 50 if they are likely to be in K >> reasonable condition. Those stored in a temperature/humidity controlled (@ >> environment suitable for mag tape are more likely to survive. >> s >>   >> -- * >>                                 Regards. >>                                 Tony Bolton9 >>                            TBolton 'at' mhl.nsw.gov.aua: >>                            MANLY HYDRAULICS LABORATORY.9 >>                           110 King ST. Manly Vale 2093s. >>                           Sydney  AUSTRALIAD >>                           Phone +61 2 99490200 FAX +61 2 994861856 >>                           http://www.mhl.nsw.gov.au    G Argh!  I just dumped huge selection of old DECtape, 7 and 9 track reelsrG and TK70 carts over Labor Day weekend.  Took me two weeks to bulk eraseCH all of them (because the bulk eraser would overheat) before trashing.  IH needed to make room in the house for party guests so the antiquities and curios had to go.    -- -L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM            @5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:25:29 +0200o" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>% Subject: Re: [5] Counter Googling :-(l2 Message-ID: <blb7kr$5d5$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>  A I wrote [OT] for Off Topic, it prints 5 ?????????????????????????e   D.   Didier Morandi wrote:   I > Talking about good old googling, heard of counter googling? I tried on b< > myself... 70 hits and half of my private life revealed :-) > C > http://www.trendwatching.com/trends/2003/09/COUNTER-GOOGLING.html$   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:14:41 +0200e" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>! Subject: [5] Counter Googling :-(d2 Message-ID: <blb70j$3c1$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>  G Talking about good old googling, heard of counter googling? I tried on w: myself... 70 hits and half of my private life revealed :-)  A http://www.trendwatching.com/trends/2003/09/COUNTER-GOOGLING.html    D.   Paul Sture wrote::= >>(yeah, me too, I sometimes forget about good old google :-)c >  > Thanks, that does the trick. >    -- M- Didier Morandi sarl au capital de 8 000 eurost                     Tout VMS.   5 avenue Albert Durand, 31700 Blagnac France.   Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287  Fax: 33(0)5 6171 3500&           http://www.didiermorandi.com$             RCS Toulouse 448 694 851   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:43:59 -0400a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>% Subject: Re: [5] Counter Googling :-(s) Message-ID: <3F7925FA.DAE8E76F@istop.com>n   Didier Morandi wrote:  > H > Talking about good old googling, heard of counter googling? I tried on< > myself... 70 hits and half of my private life revealed :-) > C > http://www.trendwatching.com/trends/2003/09/COUNTER-GOOGLING.html   M Just like serious corporations fairly quickly learned that they couldn't SPAMbN newsgroups or email, I think that serious corporations will quickly learn thatJ they can't google their customers. If I checked into a hotel and it becameJ obvious that they had done their research about me, I would feel extremelyJ ucomfortable. Why did they want to know so much about me ? I'd say that it' would be a form of invasion of privacy.o  K If I want a room with a window facing morning sun, I'll ask for it. I don'tsH want the hotel digging up my information and assume what I want for this particular stay at their hotel.-   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.542 ************************