1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 03 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 185       Contents:' Re: Alpha DS-10 and Raxco Perfect Cache   Re: An interesting Search result Re: DCL Coding Standards4 Re: Emulators:   VAX/VMS, hp3000/MPE and ... AS-400?4 Re: Emulators:   VAX/VMS, hp3000/MPE and ... AS-400?0 Emulators:   VAX/VMS, hp3000/MPE and ... AS-400?. Re: HP /Best'Ware BCS presentation in Toulouse Re: HP Product Bulletin on-line  Re: HP Product Bulletin on-line  Re: HP Product Bulletin on-line  Re: HTML favourite editor?' Re: MDR and SCSI devices, MKx standard?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!? ) OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon - Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon 6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2004 10:26:58 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Re: Alpha DS-10 and Raxco Perfect Cache= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0404031026.5a85250a@posting.google.com>   ] Dan <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94BEC69571D09nospamyahoocom@63.223.5.254>...  > Good evening. M > I am a new systems manager for a local CU and am getting my first exposure  I > to OpenVMS.  Our core services vendor says that we can get substantial  L > performance benefits by installing Raxco Perfect Cache on the Alpha DS-10.N > The DS-10 currently has 1Gb of RAM.  I am looking to upgrade that to 2Gb in  > the near future. >  > My questions are:  > H > 1.  Is there a performance gain to be had by installing this software?= > 2.  Is this something that is easily installable by myself? D > 3.  Does it require any sort of maintenance after it is installed?I > 4.  If installed, how can yoube certain it is performing as advertised?  > J > Here's the kicker... Our vendor wants to charge us nearly $3500 for the K > software and install.  I have seen it at Raxco for less than $300.  What   > gives? > $ > Thanks to all for your assistance. >  > Dan  > Grovetown, Georgia  A Dan, I use PC in over 30 workstations running 7.1-1H2 from AS200s C to PWS600s not to mention on our corporate alphaservers and believe > me, you notice the performance gain the minute you log in.  It< installs easily, and once configured to your liking, it runsB automatically ... no maintenance unless you can't read manuals ...= I highly recommend PC and the whole raxmaster suite including B Perfecttune, Perfectdisk, Ultradisk and add on tools ... just callD Raxco and you can work out a good price, weither for one or multiple1 boxes ... install it yourself and save the money!    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:54:24 -0800* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>) Subject: Re: An interesting Search result 2 Message-ID: <fbGdnQx30MLflvPdRVn-hA@mpowercom.net>  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0404021630.16b11799@posting.google.com...  > = > Take care ! Solaris was a Sci Fi movie in 2001 or 2002  :-) 5 > And how many answers about Sun (Solaris) suing MS ?  > H Also, Solaris is the title of an SF book by Stanislaus Lem (which I hopeJ would get more hits than the awful movie), and how many abbreviate OpenVMS: to just VMS?  I think you need to refine the search terms.   Jack Peacock   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:15:07 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards : Message-ID: <c4mdcs$2lfd6d$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  >>[snip] >>I do >>
 >>$_label: >>$    IF (BLAH.EQS.BLEH)  >>$    THEN   >>$        exciting loop command  >>$        exciting loop command  >>$        exciting loop command >>$    ENDIF >> >>Mr. Dachtera won't like it!  >  > J > Neither do certain versions of DCL. I learned (the hard way) a long timeF > ago (circa. 1990) to never GOTO out of an IF-THEN[-ELSE]-ENDIF blockD > because after about 14 iterations, DCL runs off into the woods andF > begins misparsing subsequent commands; after 15 iterations, the nextI > iteration of the IF itself will fail with a DCL-E error (don't remember J > the IDENT or the text, but the text part mentions something about bad IF! > syntax or data inconsistency).   > H > IMHO, it's just bad form to GOTO out of an IF-THEN[-ELSE]-ENDIF block. > C > VAX BASIC would flag it at compile time, also (jump out of a code 	 > block).  >  > * >>And for some reason I like an underscore' >>for the leading character of a label.  >  > 3 > Probably because you also "over-indent". Compare:  > 
 > $_label: > $    IF (BLAH.EQS.BLEH)  > $    THEN   > $        exciting loop command  > $        exciting loop command  > $        exciting loop command > $    ENDIF > 
 > ...to... > 	 > $label:  > $ IF	(BLAH.EQS.BLEH) > $ THEN > $	exciting loop command  > $	exciting loop command  > $	exciting loop command 	 > $ ENDIF  > J > Nearly identical visual effect, fewer bytes (TABs instead of spaces) andJ > things line up at TAB stops making editing much less keyboard-intensive. >  > " >>And unnecessary parentheses make# >>IF THEN statements more readable.  >  > F > Well, yes and no. Which paren.'s in the following would you consider > "unnecessary"? > * > $ IF	((BLAH .AND. %X7FFFFFFF) .EQ. BLEH) > ( > $ IF	(BLAH .AND. %X7FFFFFFF) .EQ. BLEH > G > Hint: Putting spaces around your operators increases readability more  > than "unnecessary" paren.'s. >   G Another advantage of spacing is that when editing using the EDT keypad  5 you can use KP1 to move to and fro by word in a line.   
 For example,:   : $ result = F$PARSE(filespec, default-spec, related-spec, -             field, parse-type)  5 (well I didn't want it to wrap, but you get the idea)    Is easier to edit than  G $ result = F$PARSE(filespec,default-spec,related-spec,field,parse-type)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 02:00:15 +0100< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>= Subject: Re: Emulators:   VAX/VMS, hp3000/MPE and ... AS-400? * Message-ID: <c4l2a3$2j5n$1@news.wplus.net>  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0404021647.54c33e2a@posting.google.com... 5 > Do you know if there is an emulator like Charon for   > AS-400 ? Commercial software ? > 	 > Regards  > FC  G You could probably get the SIMH source to compile on an ibm, although I K personally would not suggest running production work on it, or you have all * the instability features of the as400 too.   SIMH is not commercial.   @ http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ is where you can get the sources.   and   F http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html has info on building it for lin*x.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2004 01:59:21 GMT  From: healyzh@aracnet.com = Subject: Re: Emulators:   VAX/VMS, hp3000/MPE and ... AS-400? , Message-ID: <c4l5pp016su@enews2.newsguy.com>  / Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote: 5 > Do you know if there is an emulator like Charon for   > AS-400 ? Commercial software ?  J What exactly are you looking for?  Are you looking for a VAX emulator thatJ will run on an AS/400, or are you looking for HP3000 and AS/400 emulators?   	Zane    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2004 10:31:03 -0800 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)9 Subject: Emulators:   VAX/VMS, hp3000/MPE and ... AS-400? = Message-ID: <f30679fb.0404031031.5021c98c@posting.google.com>   M healyzh@aracnet.com wrote in message news:<c4l5pp016su@enews2.newsguy.com>... 1 > Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote: 7 > > Do you know if there is an emulator like Charon for " > > AS-400 ? Commercial software ? > L > What exactly are you looking for?  Are you looking for a VAX emulator thatL > will run on an AS/400, or are you looking for HP3000 and AS/400 emulators? >  > 	Zane   L I would like to know if there is something similar to Charon VAX  to emulate: an AS-400 server ! Commercial like VMWare, Charon, etc ...   Regards    FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 22:29:10 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")7 Subject: Re: HP /Best'Ware BCS presentation in Toulouse 6 Message-ID: <00A2FC47.53C39FFD@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  O In article <c4ki98$38t$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> writes:  >Larry Kilgallen wrote: ? >> In article <c4j43o$e1r$1@biggoron.nerim.net>, Didier Morandi  >> <no@spam.com> writes: >>H >>> The VMS logo is a curly multicolor enlarged arrow containing, in theH >>> center of the curve, the word "OpenVMS" and on the arrow itself, the4 >>> words "VAX Systems - Alpha Systems - Integrity". >>G >> That sounds like the logo in use at last November's symposium in New 
 >> Hampshire.  >>B >>> 5. The justification for a Customer to choose either OS is the >>> following one: >>> H >>> HP UX   : the merged quality of the HP UX and Tru64 OS on a standard >>> platform >>> . >>> Linux   : Linux for 32 and 64bit platforms >>> / >>> Windows : Windows on 32 and 64bit platforms  >>> B >>> OpenVMS : evolution of the current installed base and need for) >>> mission critical and secure platforms  > J >Translation from MarketingSpeak: Dead ends with nowhere else to go and no >new customers.   J Not necessarily.  I mean, "need for mission critical and secure platforms"K is the visible value proposition that VMS has to offer new customers (since M the people who make those decisions don't particularly care about whether the I command-line environment makes more sense than Unix or DOS, and isn't too O concerned about how hard things are to administer).  Now, this doesn't say that N HP has any intention of pricing VMS competitively, or that they'll really workK to sell it, but it also doesn't translate directly into "no new customers."   N (Incidentally, this is the only one on that list that gets a value proposition* of its own; for consistency, it should say  $ OpenVMS: OpenVMS on 64-bit platforms   )    -- Alan  --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:48:39 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>( Subject: Re: HP Product Bulletin on-line: Message-ID: <c4mfbo$2hge6d$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>   Michael Unger wrote:. > On 2004-04-02 09:38, "Didier Morandi" wrote: >  >  >>[...]  >>& >>  10 MB - Application and Help Files  >>170 MB - World Wide QuickSpecs& >>155 MB - North America/US QuickSpecs2 >>150 MB - North America/Canada English QuickSpecs2 >>  84 MB - North America/Canada French QuickSpecs( >>  82 MB - North America Product Photos >  > H > A full download of these files via an ISDN connection would take about > 25 hours ... >   F The best way around that nowadays is to get a friend or colleague who C has an ADSL connection to burn a CD for you. Of course you need to  A choose someone you can trust not to have a virus-ridden system...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:56:49 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>( Subject: Re: HP Product Bulletin on-line. Message-ID: <c4mjbh$254i$1@biggoron.nerim.net>   Alex Daniels wrote:   H > Can you tell me the part number for the OpenVMS 7.3-2 source listings?  
 Course I can:   9 QB-MT1AB-E8 OpenVMS Alpha Listings CD-ROM Kit and License 7 QB-001AB-E8 OpenVMS VAX Listings CD-ROM Kit and License    Next question?   D. --  <                    Discover the FutureVAX: www.futurevax.com8                            Discover VAXUS: www.vaxus.org  J     didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPL   Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ Programmation ~ MigrationJ     Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287G       SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2004 11:59:42 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: Re: HP Product Bulletin on-line3 Message-ID: <CsCU4Qsc+zmi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <c4mfbo$2hge6d$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  > Michael Unger wrote:/ >> On 2004-04-02 09:38, "Didier Morandi" wrote:  >>   >>   >>>[...] >>> ' >>>  10 MB - Application and Help Files ! >>>170 MB - World Wide QuickSpecs ' >>>155 MB - North America/US QuickSpecs 3 >>>150 MB - North America/Canada English QuickSpecs 3 >>>  84 MB - North America/Canada French QuickSpecs ) >>>  82 MB - North America Product Photos  >>   >>  I >> A full download of these files via an ISDN connection would take about  >> 25 hours ...  >>   > H > The best way around that nowadays is to get a friend or colleague who E > has an ADSL connection to burn a CD for you. Of course you need to  C > choose someone you can trust not to have a virus-ridden system...   H Why would a virus matter to someone receiving the CD onto a VMS system ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:05:55 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net># Subject: Re: HTML favourite editor? : Message-ID: <c4mgc4$2kfa9v$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:$ > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: > J >>  > Emacs runs almost everywhere, although getting the latest version of4 >>  > it and its sibling Xemacs on VMS is a problem. >  > M > Does any version of "xemacs" currently run on OpenVMS?  I really don't care M > if it's the latest and greatest.  For that matter, is there any editor that 2 > runs on OpenVMS that supports contect colouring? >   H IIRC NEdit supports context colouring. www.nedit.org has details of the I product, but I don't see a VMS version there. I've certainly seen people  ! using NEdit on VMS Alpha systems.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:42:10 +0100< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>0 Subject: Re: MDR and SCSI devices, MKx standard?* Message-ID: <c4kq78$1a24$1@news.wplus.net>  5 "John Brandon" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote in message + news:04040213225141@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com... B > I am in the process of putting my tape drives (TL89-2) on a MDR. > L > Since I am installing these remotely I currently do not have access to the MDR  > at this time.  > ? > I am curious as to the tape naming convention they will take.  >  >  > TIA  >  >  > J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com    ; They will be $1$MGAnnn and any robotics will be $1$GGAnnnn.    Regards    Alex   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:37:40 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?/ Message-ID: <oJubc.164186$1p.2072199@attbi_s54>    dittman@dittman.net wrote:E > I received the following from a friend at HP (the person's name has  > been removed to protect him):  (snip)   > Issuer:             HP5 > Authorization:      INTERNAL-HP-DEVEL-20040401-0026 # > Product Name:       OPENVMS-POWER  > Producer:           HP > Units:              0  > Activity:           A + > Checksum:           2-HCFJ-IAEH-CEGG-AGJO    > Issuer:             HP5 > Authorization:      INTERNAL-HP-DEVEL-20040401-0713 # > Product Name:       OPENVMS-AMD64  > Producer:           HP > Units:              0  > Activity:           A + > Checksum:           2-GBOI-LMGL-COOA-KCFM    (snip)  E > I tried the PAKs and they are valid!  This is pretty interesting...   ? What does it mean to try a PAK.  You can test it on any system, > and it will verify the checksum, even though it can't possibly= run on that system?   I presume you don't mean that you tried  it on an AMD64 system.  ? How hard is it to generate such?   I presume that the algorithm ? for verification is known, but not not easily reversible, a one  way or trap door function.   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:41:12 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?: Message-ID: <c4meto$2k350h$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > dittman@dittman.net wrote: > F >> I received the following from a friend at HP (the person's name has  >> been removed to protect him): >  > (snip) >  >> Issuer:             HP 6 >> Authorization:      INTERNAL-HP-DEVEL-20040401-0026$ >> Product Name:       OPENVMS-POWER >> Producer:           HP  >> Units:              0 >> Activity:           A, >> Checksum:           2-HCFJ-IAEH-CEGG-AGJO >  >  >> Issuer:             HP 6 >> Authorization:      INTERNAL-HP-DEVEL-20040401-0713$ >> Product Name:       OPENVMS-AMD64 >> Producer:           HP  >> Units:              0 >> Activity:           A, >> Checksum:           2-GBOI-LMGL-COOA-KCFM >  >  > (snip) > F >> I tried the PAKs and they are valid!  This is pretty interesting... >  > A > What does it mean to try a PAK.  You can test it on any system, @ > and it will verify the checksum, even though it can't possibly? > run on that system?   I presume you don't mean that you tried  > it on an AMD64 system. >   D PAKs don't _run_ on a system. Here the valid checksum allows you to G enter the PAK into the license database, and do a LICENSE LOAD with it.   H If there is no software product which requires a PAK for OPENVMS-POWER,  it's pretty useless.    A > How hard is it to generate such?   I presume that the algorithm A > for verification is known, but not not easily reversible, a one  > way or trap door function. > 	 > -- glen  >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2004 08:49:17 -0800 ' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)   Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?= Message-ID: <734da31c.0404030849.6077c4c1@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c4k4gp$jjh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > Rob Young wrote:V > > In article <406d79fc_2@corp.newsgroups.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > > ; > >>Did advertising make Sun non-profitable since dot-bomb?  > >> > >  > > E > > 	No.  Their collapse is more tied to cheaper Wintel kit and Linux I > > 	on Intel.  The dot-bomb song and dance they trotted out for a number B > > 	of quarters was old news.  Their collapse is on-going and notJ > > 	industry-wide. i.e. easily refuted by IBM's Unix growth over the last > > 	year plus.  > >  > 9 > Really so how do you account for HP's inability to make : > a profit from their hardware businesses except printing.  D They actually did make a profit last quarter. _AND_ considering thatD HP is not focused on this while Sun has its entire focus on this and< even then cannot make profit, that should tell you someting.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:53:02 +0200  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>2 Subject: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon- Message-ID: <c4m8j6$1j75$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Folks,  F The Dweeb has purchased some books at Amazon.co.uk, and since I am VATG registered, I should not have to pay VAT on these professional volumes.    $ SET VENT/ITEM=SPLEEN/ON   J The story thus far is that I have had three boilerplate cut & paste emailsJ back, each promising to get it right (one prior to shipping & billing, oneG prior to billing, one after shipping) and without any noticable effect. J Amazon owe me the VAT that they have incorrectly debited my VISA card, and the Dweeb is getting irate.   8 So, to the following 3 people at amazon customer support   Achint Kishore Saurabh Sehgal Sankhya Dey   K in whatever 3rd world country in which you happen to reside, a big rasberry J to you.  Two of you have failed miserably, while the 3rd (you know who you0 are) has the unique opportunity to get it right.   $ SET VENT/OFF  	 Dr, Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:08:01 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon: Message-ID: <c4mgg1$2kfa9v$2@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>   Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Folks, > H > The Dweeb has purchased some books at Amazon.co.uk, and since I am VATI > registered, I should not have to pay VAT on these professional volumes.  >  > $ SET VENT/ITEM=SPLEEN/ON  > L > The story thus far is that I have had three boilerplate cut & paste emailsL > back, each promising to get it right (one prior to shipping & billing, oneI > prior to billing, one after shipping) and without any noticable effect. L > Amazon owe me the VAT that they have incorrectly debited my VISA card, and > the Dweeb is getting irate.  > : > So, to the following 3 people at amazon customer support >  > Achint Kishore > Saurabh Sehgal
 > Sankhya Dey  > M > in whatever 3rd world country in which you happen to reside, a big rasberry L > to you.  Two of you have failed miserably, while the 3rd (you know who you2 > are) has the unique opportunity to get it right. >  > $ SET VENT/OFF >  > Dr, Dweeb  >  > F Did they give you a proper VAT invoice? I'd pass the details onto the 5 VAT authorities and let them deal with it :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:27:16 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable : Message-ID: <c4me3l$2k273f$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <jCb6NyioFmZp@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >  >>In article <c4hd7b$kq3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >>E >>>Companys pay for IP all the time, Sun has an OS called Solaris x86  >>G >>   I was suprized to find that only the Solaris x86 software shows up E >>   on the Sun web site.  I couldn't find a preconfigured box on the 
 >>   site. >>I >>   I was wondering why the Sun Java Desktop systems at WallMart weren't E >>   on Sun branded hardware.  I guess there's no such beast as a Sun  >>   branded PC. >>J >>   Now I wouldn't want, or expect, Sun to get into a Sun branded WindowsE >>   box, but I'd think there was a market for Sun branded Intel UNIX C >>   boxes.  If DEC can learn to rebadge Tandy, Olivetti, and other F >>   makers, there should be some way for Sun to get into this market. >>C >>   Or maybe DM will get interested in doing it as a "Future Sun".  >  > F > The margins are so thin, why would they bother?  They have a productC > called Solaris that people are buying that only they can provide. F > PC's can be bought from any schmuck with a garage and a screwdriver. > E I imagine that corporate clients might ask Sun for a quote for x PCs  F already configured to run Solaris. The margins are in the maintenance I contract, not the hardware, but the customer wants the complete solution   from one supplier.  H In such a situation the likes of IBM, HP (and Compaq before the merger) A are extremely aggressive with their quotes because they want the  $ maintenance element of the contract.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2004 09:06:01 -0800 ' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) ? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable = Message-ID: <734da31c.0404030906.4795b68f@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c4hehi$ldk$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > dooley wrote: q > > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0403310543.47ea7f3f@posting.google.com>... 
 > > <snip> > > > > >>just give the alpha team some time and they will make it a > >>money maker ...  > > - > > er.. don't most of them now work for AMD?  > > Phil > @ > AMD or Sun and thats always been a rather obvious flaw in Bobs	 > theory.  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison   F Some Alpha people have gone to many places, but 200-300 people and all7 of the top designers of EV7 and EV8 have gone to Intel.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.185 ************************