1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 05 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 188       Contents:P Re: DCL minute of the Day: integer to string, padded & right justified justified Loss of a VMS legend Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!? $ Re: OT - Outsourced customer service$ Re: OT - Outsourced customer service- Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon - Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon - Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon  OT: fingerprint processing Re: OT: fingerprint processing  Re: simple question on shadowing% Re: Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards 6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:55:29 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: DCL minute of the Day: integer to string, padded & right justified justified - Message-ID: <87n05tndym.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   5 hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:   2 >                                APPLICATION NOTE:= >                       IDENTIFICATION OF RIGHT AND LEFT HAND    Is this another of Stan's gems?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2004 19:23:34 -0700 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)  Subject: Loss of a VMS legend = Message-ID: <857e9e41.0404041823.3471bb80@posting.google.com>   ; I am sorry to say that today April 4th John Wisnewski died.    sue    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2004 19:13:46 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0404041813.5a0ba78c@posting.google.com>   W Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote in message news:<c4imqd$93q$3@biggoron.nerim.net>...  > dittman@dittman.net wrote: > G > > I received the following from a friend at HP (the person's name has ! > > been removed to protect him):  > > H > > ====================================================================F > > Apparently with Itanium not having the market share, HP is falling" > > back on IBM's POWER and AMD64: >  > Let's learn a bit of French: >  > What is "poisson d'avril" ?  >  > :-)  >    > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  > :  >  > APRIL FOOL ! > % > You won a (swiss) chocolate egg :-)  >  > D.  D Now hold on just a minute. Simeon Denis Poisson is the originator of? the Poisson equation (from potential theory, in particular, the D Poisson equation in electromagnetic theory relates the electrostaticB potential with the charge density) and the Poisson distribution in probability theory.    So his last name is Fool?    Please explain.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:52:23 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?6 Message-ID: <00A2FD02.F901E6D1@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <ubFbc.174677$Cb.1677690@attbi_s51>, glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >Paul Sture wrote: >  >(snip of PAKs)  > H >>>> I tried the PAKs and they are valid!  This is pretty interesting... > C >>> What does it mean to try a PAK.  You can test it on any system, B >>> and it will verify the checksum, even though it can't possiblyA >>> run on that system?   I presume you don't mean that you tried  >>> it on an AMD64 system. > G >> PAKs don't _run_ on a system. Here the valid checksum allows you to  J >> enter the PAK into the license database, and do a LICENSE LOAD with it. > > >So you can load a PAK on any system, whether it is applicable >to that system or not?     M Yup.  (Gotta be that way because you can have a clusterwide license database, M which means your VAX/IA64 PAKs could actually live on Alpha, and also because M some products require that you have a license loaded before installation. The I only information used in loading a license is contained on that license - " expiration dates, checksum , etc.)   -- Alan    --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 05:05:51 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?/ Message-ID: <PO5cc.187380$Cb.1722469@attbi_s51>    Paul Sture wrote:    > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:  * >  > It took me a few tries to get VAX/VMS  B >> to recognize its own PAK.  I don't know which items I got wrong/ >> the first few times, but finally it took it.   K > That's the reason I put the LICENSE commands into a command procedure. I  > > know I'm likely to make an error entering the details using / > SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE.COM, so I don't use it.   < I will do the rest that way.  I suppose I could have done it= for VMS, too, but near the end of the install it asks for the < PAK values.  The names in the prompts are slightly different1 than in the PAK, though I thought I had it right.    -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:16:04 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service ) Message-ID: <406F1B7D.F0AB1903@istop.com>    "Dr. Dweeb" wrote:J > Upon reflection, I should be thankful that I live in a country where theN > language spoken is a guarantee that customer service is, and always will be, > locally provided.    Don't bet your life on it.  I My cell phone, made by Siemens, an international company, doesn't provide H suppor for me in french. Not only that, but theur support comes from theJ location in the USA where they have a strong accent and have absolutely noH idea that francophones might be calling them or worse, that many english' people actually say ZED instead of ZEE.   N This is especially painful since everytime you call, they ask you 20 questionsN about yourself, address, etc, and when all that ifnormation must be spelled by: letter because they are french names, it is quite painful.  N I think next time, I will just spend the money to call Siemens in the UK or in France to get support.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:52:38 +0200  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>- Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service , Message-ID: <c4n870$6cf$1@news.cybercity.dk>   Colin Butcher wrote:F > http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1183552,00.html seems > appropriate reading.  3 An excellent article, thanks so much for the Linq.   H Upon reflection, I should be thankful that I live in a country where theL language spoken is a guarantee that customer service is, and always will be,J locally provided.  Apparently, I should also thank my lucky stars that theH local telco is somewhat better than BT - BT it seems is amongst the veryJ worst, right up there alongside Telekom - my personal favourite bad-telco.  I Actually, upon reflection, my last 3 interactions with my telco have been - faultless, so I am beginning to warm to them!   L I am reminded of a comment once made to me regarding customer "service".  ItL was something along the lines that "the customer service personel at xxx areJ extremely polite but completely unhelpful, and nothing you say alters thisF state.  It is not in their job description to actually provide help or assistance".  L How refreshing it would be if companies - BT for example - actually providedI a product that did not need hordes of customer service personel trying to E talk irate customers out of becoming non-customers etc.  Or technical = support that actually had technicians at the end of the line.    zzzrzrzrzkkk  & Sorry, got to reminiscing a bit there.  	 Dr. Dweeb    PS: Amazon still owe me money.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:40:30 +0200  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>6 Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon, Message-ID: <c4nehb$era$1@news.cybercity.dk>   JF Mezei wrote:  > "Dr. Dweeb" wrote:F >> However they are completely unable to deal with intra-EU sales that >> are VAT free. > 6 > Does amazon.com have a physical presence in the UK ? > A > In Canada BTW, our VAT works differently: everyone pays it, but  > registeredG > entities then deduct the VAT paid from the VAT collected and send the 	 > balance E > to the government. Make it much simpler for vendors who just charge  > the tax to everyone.   JF,   > Thats how VAT, GST, MOMS, MWST, TVA etc work everywhere AFAIK.  K In europe though, because we really are so many different countries and the K politicians are trying to make the intra-EU market more flexible, VAT is no A longer levied on purchases between two VAT registered entities in L *different* countries.  There are some crinkles, with regard to services andL in which country the service is actually performed vis-a-vis that from which6 it is billed, but for goods it is basically as I said.  K This aspect of the VAT structure is several years old, and Amazon and other J on-line retailers need to get their collective acts together and deal withL it.  Even if it remains a manual authorisation procedure, it still should beJ in place and working after several years of the laws existence.  The only< thing in place and working are amazons boilerplate excuses!  	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 18:04:34 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>6 Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon) Message-ID: <406F34E5.4F96E856@istop.com>    "Dr. Dweeb" wrote:M > politicians are trying to make the intra-EU market more flexible, VAT is no C > longer levied on purchases between two VAT registered entities in  > *different* countries.  P OK, that makes sense. Does Amazon.uk provide prices in Euros or in pounds only ?  N I know that when Amazon tried to setup shop in Canada, they had legal problemsJ because they lacked a physical presence. (books are considered culture andN protected by laws under the free trade deals).  They solved this by strining aM deal with canada Post which setup a subsidiary that has actual wharehouse and ? staff in canada. But the web site is still very much USA based.   M > This aspect of the VAT structure is several years old, and Amazon and other L > on-line retailers need to get their collective acts together and deal with > it.   K One wonders how many such transactions they are asked to handle and perhaps M they figured it wasn't worth the cost of adapting their systems to handle it. V But then, they should tell you outright instead of pretending they'll fix it manually.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:24:01 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>6 Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon) Message-ID: <406F0141.293B778E@istop.com>    "Dr. Dweeb" wrote:M > However they are completely unable to deal with intra-EU sales that are VAT  > free.   4 Does amazon.com have a physical presence in the UK ?  J In Canada BTW, our VAT works differently: everyone pays it, but registeredM entities then deduct the VAT paid from the VAT collected and send the balance X to the government. Make it much simpler for vendors who just charge the tax to everyone.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:12:05 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com># Subject: OT: fingerprint processing ) Message-ID: <406F1A8E.B98C6A03@istop.com>   I Recently, a rather large country announced that in a few months, it would N start to fingerprint and photograph every visitor (with 2 exceptions) to their9 country in orderto catch terrorists (or whatever excuse).   < Avoiding the privacy issues and focusing only on technology:  G How much CPU power does it take to scan a fingerprint and convert it to  vectorial data ?  N How well can such fingerprints be indexed into some rather very large database ?   G It is feasable with today's technology that every visitor entering that I country would have his fingerprints not only scanned/vectorized, but also M checked against a database of many many many millions of fingerprints in real  time ?  J Or is it more likely that only capture of information will be done in realM time and there will be batch processing to try to match fingerprints of every . visitor against the database of fingerprints ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:14:31 -0500 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>' Subject: Re: OT: fingerprint processing 7 Message-ID: <BYKbc.2519$FX.2262@bignews2.bellsouth.net>    JF Mezei wrote:   K > Recently, a rather large country announced that in a few months, it would P > start to fingerprint and photograph every visitor (with 2 exceptions) to their; > country in orderto catch terrorists (or whatever excuse).  > > > Avoiding the privacy issues and focusing only on technology: > I > How much CPU power does it take to scan a fingerprint and convert it to  > vectorial data ? > P > How well can such fingerprints be indexed into some rather very large database > ?  > I > It is feasable with today's technology that every visitor entering that K > country would have his fingerprints not only scanned/vectorized, but also O > checked against a database of many many many millions of fingerprints in real  > time ? > L > Or is it more likely that only capture of information will be done in realO > time and there will be batch processing to try to match fingerprints of every 0 > visitor against the database of fingerprints ?    J I must have missed the new article about that... although when I attended L Novell's BrainShare conference in SLC 2 weeks ago, I recall that friends of G mine from Russia, Austria and Irael all had been finger-printed at the  J airport upon arrival in the USA before they were allowed to exit from the  airport.  M As for how much information about the print is collected, IIRC the biometric  J scanning resolution is adjustable.  There have been RS232 & USB connected H scanners for finger prings & retinal patterns on the market for several H years now.  With Novell Modular Authentication Services, it is entirely K possible to eliminate regular username/password authentication in favor of   biometric authentication.   E The actual biometric scanner hardware itself does most of the number  L crunching and simply delivers a blob of data to the computer to which it is H attached, so I don't see it requiring inordinate amounts of CPU time to G collect this data.  Also, if you restrict the scanning to only, say, 1  L finger on each hand, then you also reduce the amount of data that has to be J manipulated.  Actual comparison of the finger print data can be performed K very quickly.  The lower the resolution the quicker the comparisons can be  M done, but the higher the risk of "false positive" matches being made.  IIRC,  L low-end devices were only taking something like 11 or 12 points of data per L finger print, while higher resolution scans of 22 to 23 data points offered C significantly better chances of eliminating false-positive matches.   L Based on current technology, it is probably quite reasonable to expect that G every incoming international flight passenger could have 1 or 2 finger  K prints scanned & compared against a database of finger prints in real time  * w/o bottle-necking the flow of passengers.    L I'm wondering if we're going to see a market for fake finger-prints now.  I K can just imagine the hordes of spam email messages I'll get now about "Lee  K Press-On Finger Prints" and how you can get them at low prices and protect  , your privacy when traveling internationally.  K Now the real interesting thing would be if people were not allowed to exit  J the country in question if their finger print scans from their arrival in M the country don't match their scans taken at the time they wish to leave the   country.  M Seems like a number of Heinlein and Asimov stories from the past are rapidly   becoming reality.      --   Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com1                                    ICQ # 22321532 @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pagerC                                    8007740718 (at) skytel (dot) com   , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 04:13:04 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) ) Subject: Re: simple question on shadowing ( Message-ID: <c4qmcg$u3r$1@pcls4.std.com>  S helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:   + >  Or will there be HBVS minimerge for VAX?   F Get the terminology right.  MiniMERGE has existed for years, exists onF VAX and in fact I think it may date to before Alpha.  MiniCOPY is new,B and will work on all disks (not just those on CI/DSSI controllers) --   -Mike    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2004 15:15:19 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman). Subject: Re: Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0404041415.4f6daf3e@posting.google.com>   u martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote in message news:<406e8748.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>... 6 > Charlie Hammond (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com) wrote: > > ..K > > >> >>>You have to REALLY OLD to remember his famous "Stupid DCL tricks"  > > ..G > > I read this (as closely quoted as memory permits) in a sci-fi novel  > > I was reading last night:  > > I > >     Old programmers never retire -- they just move to legacy systems.  >  > The version I once saw was:  > < >   Programmers never die -- they just GOSUB without RETURN. >  > cu, 
 >   Martin   All right! It's sys$silly time!    IP, UP, WE ALL P, FOR IP.   F Some of you will recognize this as a new take on the old IBM version:    IBM, UBM, WE ALL BM, FOR IBM.   3 Ah, we've graduated from number two, to number one!   ! All right, enough sys$silly_ness!    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 01:31:59 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable * Message-ID: <406F6719.6050307@prodigy.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:    > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c4hehi$ldk$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>dooley wrote:  >>p >>>bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0403310543.47ea7f3f@posting.google.com>...	 >>><snip>  >>> > >>>>just give the alpha team some time and they will make it a >>>>money maker ...  >>> , >>>er.. don't most of them now work for AMD? >>>Phil  >>@ >>AMD or Sun and thats always been a rather obvious flaw in Bobs	 >>theory.  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >  > ; > and if alpha is/was such a p$ss poor chip, why hire them?    Maybe they came cheap.     --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:26:32 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable ) Message-ID: <406F01D8.15068B14@istop.com>    David Svensson wrote: H > Some Alpha people have gone to many places, but 200-300 people and all9 > of the top designers of EV7 and EV8 have gone to Intel.   J Are they free to leave Intel or is there some slavery contract that CompaqA forced them into that binds them to stay with Intel for X years ?   L Also, do you really think that the ex-Digits will be working on that itaniumJ totally different chip they have no experience on, or isn't it more likelyL they'll be working on the 64 bit 8086 that they have plenty of experience on' since much of it was "alpha inspired" ?    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.188 ************************