1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 08 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 194       Contents: * J F  M E Z E I  F A Q *  Re: * J F  M E Z E I  F A Q *  Re: * J F  M E Z E I  F A Q * ; Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... / Re: Archive trolling styles on different groups / Re: Archive trolling styles on different groups / Re: Archive trolling styles on different groups 8 Re: Bereavement on c.o.v? J F trolling full steam ahead! contents of V7.3-2 distro  Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro  Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro  Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro  Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro  Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro  Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro  Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro  Re: CXX 6.5-039 problem * FS: Lots of VMS documentation, other stuff. Re: FS: Lots of VMS documentation, other stuff Heading to Texas7 Re: J F - different trolling styles on different groups 7 Re: J F - different trolling styles on different groups 7 Re: J F - different trolling styles on different groups  Re: Loss of a VMS legend Re: Loss of a VMS legend" MicroVAX 3800: erasing system disk& Re: MicroVAX 3800: erasing system disk Need help with modem on VAX  Re: Need help with modem on VAX  Re: Need help with modem on VAX  Re: Need help with modem on VAX  Re: Need help with modem on VAX  Re: Need help with modem on VAX  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!? 9 Re: OT - VAT in EU & Outsourced customer service - Amazon ? PBXGK-BB (ELSA GLoria Synergy, 4D10T (?)) DECwindows colormaps? ? PBXGK-BB (ELSA GLoria Synergy, 4D10T (?)) DECwindows colormaps?  Re: SIMH V3.2 released Re: SIMH V3.2 released Re: SIMH V3.2 released  Re: simple question on shadowing  Re: simple question on shadowing  Re: simple question on shadowing  Re: simple question on shadowing  Re: simple question on shadowing  Re: simple question on shadowing& Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?& Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?& Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?& Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?& Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?& Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?. Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE - does't survive reboots. Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE - does't survive reboots. Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE - does't survive reboots. Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE - does't survive reboots6 Re: tcp/ip NFS mounted drive problem after time change& Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP& Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP& Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP& Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP& Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP  Re: TS10 Alpha Emulator status ?6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable" VAX *and* VMS mentioned in article Re: VMS? Re: VMS? Re: VMS?, RE: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100, RE: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100, Re: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100, Re: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100, Re: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100" WEBES install failing on DCLTABLES4 Re: [OT]: Franken-food   was Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?4 Re: [OT]: Franken-food   was Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  , Date: Tue,  6 Apr 2004 17:20:05 +0200 (CEST)% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> " Subject: * J F  M E Z E I  F A Q *8 Message-ID: <761a1f52f3e20f2b4f3bb9d02bbe0581@dizum.com>   FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS    About JF MEZEI   (Rev. Mar. 28, 2004)   1.  Who is JF Mezei?  G Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit J rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the) longest running trolls in usenet history.   J ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND E-MAILO ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS THEIR MESSAGES.***   I If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor the K control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your messages, P forward a copies of them to Ralph Doncaster of Istop at  ralph@doncaster.on.ca .  " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.    3.  Where does he live?    Montreal, Quebec, Canada   Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 695-8259  / His current e-mail address is jfmezei@istop.com   * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  H His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades yourO newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out, O every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleas I to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not pay O attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just M goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his ears G closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"    5.  What does he troll about?   P His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates theK USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashing C fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start making lewd posts.   $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  P Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceralP hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, moreJ successful version of their country and they can't stand it.  Some of JF'sN favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis ofJ evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?   P Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.  Among hisI favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's genitalia, sex toys, M circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) ... the list is endless.    8.  Circumcision???   P Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insertF circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF wasP traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada,O left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world. N Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time,O he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arranged D to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcisionN proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His mainO argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcised M without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has > made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel.  H 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.  N Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dearO to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy's J foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls' hymens.  He is also aK tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbate H early on so that they don't grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  L He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their littleM boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement, O and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be a > world full of parents manipulating their little boys' penises.  M 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute!  Are  you sure about all this stuff?  P Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a decade full of Mezei trolling in there.   M 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the time like  all trolls do?  K Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling  aliases.  G 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he work?   O Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a grown man O who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroups M all night.  In his free time when he isn't trolling he likes to ride his bike G down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike.   9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?   M Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never got past G the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull my H finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  L 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is
 that true?  M Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room. N He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms overP the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the menO in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is N left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.   O 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!   M Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hat N world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that heL sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the) USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.   O What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system was J "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains,N writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a goodM freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made him P fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines andO their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is M he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees O went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the Air D Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash1 investigation.  He has never recovered from this.   6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  O His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient, J arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously forM decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who share J his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?   I can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computer G groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he invaded the N sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and trolled it relentlesslyP with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap he's so famous for.  But they ranN him off that group and he had to go crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail% between his legs, licking his wounds.   P 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and doesn't troll.  O Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so he slips P in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he respects comp.os.vms, and,L more importantly, he tries to hide his trolling activities from them so they* won't find out what a major netkook he is.  P 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  O Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while you're at I it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido too.  And to O alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.   4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  H Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   abuse@istop.com  abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com  L For personal attention, you may contact Ralph Doncaster at Istop directly at ralph@doncaster.on.ca.  P And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, email it toP people, you may host it at your own website, send it to newspapers and magazinesI that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.      *** APPENDIX ***  P List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the years.  This isK only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.    jfmezei@istop.com  jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com  jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca  "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]   nobody <nobody@nobody.com> nobody <nobody@nobody.net> nobody <nobody@nobody.org> nobody <nobody@nobody.info>  nobody <nobody@nobody.int> nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>  nobody <nobody@null.dev>) Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com> ' Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org>  muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> # snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> ) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>   ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:02:36 +0200 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>& Subject: Re: * J F  M E Z E I  F A Q *- Message-ID: <c5092a$hr0$1@biggoron.nerim.net>   Q We recently suffered here a bereavement, please leave us alone with your shit in   comp.os.vms.   Many thanks.   D.   Nomen Nescio wrote:  > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
 >    About
 > JF MEZEI   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:58:13 +1000  From: HUMBUG <humbug@bit.bucket>& Subject: Re: * J F  M E Z E I  F A Q *, Message-ID: <ltock1-t5s.ln1@deep.bit.bucket>  H On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:02:36 +0200, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> Wrote :S > We recently suffered here a bereavement, please leave us alone with your shit in   > comp.os.vms.    B Of for fucks sake just ignore anything from dizum or gilgamesh and' you only ever see replies to this shit.    >  > Many thanks. >  > D. >  > Nomen Nescio wrote:  >> FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS  >>    About  >> JF MEZEI  >      --     Humbug   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2004 12:02:43 -0700 . From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)D Subject: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0404071102.310d2fae@posting.google.com>    Click     ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15222   < Looks like Sun is firing SPARC engineers ! May be they will < adopt AMD chips as standard ! So... Good By Solaris Sparc !  Welcome Linux-wares !    Regards    FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:20:34 -0700, From: "Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net>8 Subject: Re: Archive trolling styles on different groups, Message-ID: <H_CdnQl7wcFwe-_dRVn_iw@sti.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:c4ujf5$5dg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Nomen Nescio wrote:  > > 
 > >>[snip]B > >>Hmmm, that's very interesting, how JF's trolling style varies. > >  > > K > > Well, since you seem to be the only who even gives a flying f---, maybe F > > someone should develop a "Nomen Nescio FAQ" and start spamming the$ > > newsgroups with it, like you do. > >  > > Whaddaya think?  > > 
 > > D.J.D. > ? > I think the problem is that Nomen Nescio doesn't exist except > > as a hiding place. And someting that doesn't exist certainly1 > does not need feeding or a FAQ for that matter.   I I find it doubtful that the usenet's archive trolls have any life at all.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:23:59 -0600 ) From: Scott Ferrin <sferrin@xmission.com> 8 Subject: Re: Archive trolling styles on different groups8 Message-ID: <ect570d43eluklic9jk8c8578i92monl3n@4ax.com>  7 On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:20:34 -0700, "Tarver Engineering"  <jtarver@sti.net> wrote:   > L >"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>< >wrote in message news:c4ujf5$5dg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >> David J. Dachtera wrote:  >> > Nomen Nescio wrote: >> > >> >>[snip] C >> >>Hmmm, that's very interesting, how JF's trolling style varies.  >> > >> >L >> > Well, since you seem to be the only who even gives a flying f---, maybeG >> > someone should develop a "Nomen Nescio FAQ" and start spamming the % >> > newsgroups with it, like you do.  >> > >> > Whaddaya think? >> > >> > D.J.D.  >>@ >> I think the problem is that Nomen Nescio doesn't exist except? >> as a hiding place. And someting that doesn't exist certainly 2 >> does not need feeding or a FAQ for that matter. > J >I find it doubtful that the usenet's archive trolls have any life at all. >     E Spoken like someone whose tired of being called on all their bullshit 
 eh Tarver?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:46:06 -0700, From: "Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net>8 Subject: Re: Archive trolling styles on different groups, Message-ID: <OoSdnQuQ7sJnZ-_dRVn-uQ@sti.net>  6 "Scott Ferrin" <sferrin@xmission.com> wrote in message2 news:ect570d43eluklic9jk8c8578i92monl3n@4ax.com...9 > On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:20:34 -0700, "Tarver Engineering"  > <jtarver@sti.net> wrote: >  > > & > >"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> > > >wrote in message news:c4ujf5$5dg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... > >> David J. Dachtera wrote:  > >> > Nomen Nescio wrote: > >> >
 > >> >>[snip] E > >> >>Hmmm, that's very interesting, how JF's trolling style varies.  > >> > > >> >H > >> > Well, since you seem to be the only who even gives a flying f---, maybe I > >> > someone should develop a "Nomen Nescio FAQ" and start spamming the ' > >> > newsgroups with it, like you do.  > >> > > >> > Whaddaya think? > >> >
 > >> > D.J.D.  > >>B > >> I think the problem is that Nomen Nescio doesn't exist exceptA > >> as a hiding place. And someting that doesn't exist certainly 4 > >> does not need feeding or a FAQ for that matter. > > L > >I find it doubtful that the usenet's archive trolls have any life at all.  G > Spoken like someone whose tired of being called on all their bullshit  > eh Tarver?  J In a world where the F-22 is sucking gas ram's Ferrin troll plays the foolG for all to see.  no rant, no archive troll, no kooky Mary can save him.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2004 14:42:08 -0700 - From: phillip_thayer@hotmail.com (PhilThayer) A Subject: Re: Bereavement on c.o.v? J F trolling full steam ahead! = Message-ID: <5ee1d1b7.0404071342.5fc724b8@posting.google.com>   e Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message news:<22327f85d751c7297623a93d05295bd3@dizum.com>... % > Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> wrote:  > ` > >We recently suffered here a bereavement, please leave us alone with your shit in comp.os.vms. > S > That's funny - your alleged bereavement doesn't seem to have affected J F at all. 1 > He's on a full trolling schedule, as per usual:  >  > http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=rec.travel.air&as_uauthors=nobody&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=50&hl=en  > W > It doesn't seem to have affected you too much either, given your use of vulgar words.  >  > >Many thanks.  > >  > >D.  > 3 > You're welcome.  But please mind the profanities.   B Profanities...You just proved that your some illiterate little kidF somewhere whose testicles haven't even dropped.  You need to either goE back to school like all the other kids or, IF your old enough, enlist D in the military and let the Drill Seargent either straighten you outD or push you to the fate of the other losers (watch Full Metal Jacket and you'll know what to do.)  F Your are a pest and if you had the manhood to post osmething with yourF real name on it you would end up as a spot of grease on the wall after= a dead fly is scraped from it when everyone is done with you.   E Now, if you want to continue with your immature illiterate stupidity, F fine but either do it in some other groups, or put a name to it and be a man.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:20:40 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG" Subject: contents of V7.3-2 distro0 Message-ID: <00A2FF51.AAFC4AF5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  K I was just getting around to updating my Infoserver CDroms with some of the  latest and greatest of VMS.   0 The documentation CD has the label: VMSDOC0732_2  7 This seems to imply that there would be a: VMSDOC0732_1   7 Is this just mislabelled and should read: VMSDOC073_2      or was I short changed a CD?     --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:09:13 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG& Subject: Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro0 Message-ID: <00A2FF58.73353A14@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <00A2FF51.AAFC4AF5@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: L >I was just getting around to updating my Infoserver CDroms with some of the >latest and greatest of VMS. > 1 >The documentation CD has the label: VMSDOC0732_2  > 8 >This seems to imply that there would be a: VMSDOC0732_1 > 8 >Is this just mislabelled and should read: VMSDOC073_2   >  >or was I short changed a CD?   E In addition, crap!, my Freeware CDs are defective.  I can't get them   to mount on the InfoServer.    --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:24:43 +0000 (UTC)Q From: helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) & Subject: Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro$ Message-ID: <c4ulka$8cu$5@online.de>  9 In article <00A2FF51.AAFC4AF5@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-   @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   M > I was just getting around to updating my Infoserver CDroms with some of the  > latest and greatest of VMS.  > 2 > The documentation CD has the label: VMSDOC0732_2 > 9 > This seems to imply that there would be a: VMSDOC0732_1  > 9 > Is this just mislabelled and should read: VMSDOC073_2    >  > or was I short changed a CD?  I I asked a similar question here recently.  The "label" you mention above  C is what is printed on the CD; its "volume label" you MOUNT it with  @ doesn't have the "_2".  There is only one CD.  Perhaps the "_2" I references the fact that there is a documentation CD intended to be read  H on Windows systems.  Not that you or I would ever even contemplate such  a thing, of course.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:31:01 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG& Subject: Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro0 Message-ID: <00A2FF5B.7E994DA5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  x In article <c4ulka$8cu$5@online.de>, helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:: >In article <00A2FF51.AAFC4AF5@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  >@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   > N >> I was just getting around to updating my Infoserver CDroms with some of the >> latest and greatest of VMS. >>  3 >> The documentation CD has the label: VMSDOC0732_2  >>  : >> This seems to imply that there would be a: VMSDOC0732_1 >>  : >> Is this just mislabelled and should read: VMSDOC073_2   >>   >> or was I short changed a CD?  > J >I asked a similar question here recently.  The "label" you mention above D >is what is printed on the CD; its "volume label" you MOUNT it with A >doesn't have the "_2".  There is only one CD.  Perhaps the "_2"  J >references the fact that there is a documentation CD intended to be read I >on Windows systems.  Not that you or I would ever even contemplate such   >a thing, of course.  M I thought that too though I would not have given precedence to the Billywarez M versions.  The volume label should simply be: VMSDOC0732 is that is the case.   L FYI, I will have nothing *WEENDOZE* or from the InfinitesimalFlaccid corpor-M ation in my VMS environment.  However, these CDs make a very nice, but brief, " lightning display in my Microwave.   --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:31:41 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG& Subject: Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro0 Message-ID: <00A2FF5B.96921787@SendSpamHere.ORG>  x In article <c4ulka$8cu$5@online.de>, helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:: >In article <00A2FF51.AAFC4AF5@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  >@SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   > N >> I was just getting around to updating my Infoserver CDroms with some of the >> latest and greatest of VMS. >>  3 >> The documentation CD has the label: VMSDOC0732_2  >>  : >> This seems to imply that there would be a: VMSDOC0732_1 >>  : >> Is this just mislabelled and should read: VMSDOC073_2   >>   >> or was I short changed a CD?  > J >I asked a similar question here recently.  The "label" you mention above D >is what is printed on the CD; its "volume label" you MOUNT it with A >doesn't have the "_2".  There is only one CD.  Perhaps the "_2"  J >references the fact that there is a documentation CD intended to be read I >on Windows systems.  Not that you or I would ever even contemplate such   >a thing, of course. >   ! Can you read your Freeware 6 CDs?  --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:15:46 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)& Subject: Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro$ Message-ID: <c4uok2$cgc$3@online.de>  9 In article <00A2FF5B.7E994DA5@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-   @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   L > >I asked a similar question here recently.  The "label" you mention above F > >is what is printed on the CD; its "volume label" you MOUNT it with C > >doesn't have the "_2".  There is only one CD.  Perhaps the "_2"  L > >references the fact that there is a documentation CD intended to be read K > >on Windows systems.  Not that you or I would ever even contemplate such   > >a thing, of course. > O > I thought that too though I would not have given precedence to the Billywarez O > versions.  The volume label should simply be: VMSDOC0732 is that is the case.   E I agree.  The whole purpose of putting the label on the CD is so that > one can do the MOUNT/CLUSTER right away without having to do a MOUNT/OVERRIDE=ID first.  :-)    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:20:06 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)& Subject: Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro$ Message-ID: <c4uos6$cgc$4@online.de>  9 In article <00A2FF5B.96921787@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-   @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   # > Can you read your Freeware 6 CDs?   G I haven't tried them in detail (and won't be able to until 23-APR), but H I was able to MOUNT them (on a VMS machine, not on an InfoServer) and do8 a DIR/GRA/SIZ [*...] and got a sensible-looking output.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:27:23 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG& Subject: Re: contents of V7.3-2 distro0 Message-ID: <00A2FF7C.83E16B06@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <c4us6s$2mge01$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes:& >On 2004-04-06 18:09, "VAXman-" wrote: > H >> In addition, crap!, my Freeware CDs are defective.  I can't get them  >> to mount on the InfoServer. > H >I was able to mount FREEWARE60_1 and FREEWARE60_2 without problems on a9 >demo version of Charon-VAX, using the PC's CD-ROM drive.  >  >> -- E >> http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security F >>                             solutions that others only claim to be. > B >Well, your sig delimiter is defective, too. It should be "-- " of& >course. (The white space is missing.)  C Looks just fine in a text based reader which is all on needs unless 6 they enjoy trolling the filth in the alt.binaries.  :)  C Seriously,  I thought I fixed that some time ago.  It's fixed now,   I hope.    --  B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" N   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:17:42 +0200E7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>   Subject: Re: CXX 6.5-039 problem+ Message-ID: <c4ul7q$1th$1@bozon2.softax.pl>.   Martin Kirby wrote:i > H > Command tables set in a process are not inherited by sub-processes. IfH > setting the CXX version does a SET COMMAND then you need to do that in > a sub-process.  C You are right. CXX$SET_VERSION.COM uses SET COMMAND in many places.d Many thankso   Robert Trawinski   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:54:02 -0400o- From: Steve Kulpa <stevekulpaFUDGE@yahoo.com>23 Subject: FS: Lots of VMS documentation, other stuff-8 Message-ID: <c2g57015ouofq3dia3d365k9bplf1ohs1r@4ax.com>  
 Greetings,B I have many boxes of used VMS documentation (mostly V6) that I wasF going to put on ebay but I thought I'd offer it here first to save theA hassle.  I also have a used VT420 terminal, some Oracle v6 and v7d2 manuals, some PDP manuals, and some other goodies.  E First reasonable offer over $5.00 for any item gets it, plus you haveeE to pay for shipping.  I've included the dimensions and approx. weightdF of each box so you can estimate the shipping.  Please mention items byB name - the green colored title - if you're interested in anything.F You'll find a pair of thick black horizontal rules separate each item.  + unFUDGE my e-mail address before you reply!n  F First come first served.  After 5 days I remove it and put what's leftD on ebay.  Although many don't, it's best if you assume the books mayE have a mark or two on the cover or on the inside.  Except for the GKS1B doc kit and the Hayes Chronograph, everything listed here is USED.  C Here's a quicky web page I created from my ebay text if you want toe take a look:  0 http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/temp/vms.htm   Thanks for looking!a steve      Steve Kulpao
 Knoxville, TN  VAX/VMS fan since Version 2i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:55:54 -0400 - From: Steve Kulpa <stevekulpaFUDGE@yahoo.com>A7 Subject: Re: FS: Lots of VMS documentation, other stuff 8 Message-ID: <r6h570luki5tvpnh3tccr1mf7p6lvd9uut@4ax.com>   oops:l   stevekulpaFUDGE@yahoo.comP Steve Kulpal
 Knoxville, TN? VAX/VMS fan since Version 2s   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2004 20:16:59 -0700e1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)Y Subject: Heading to Texasr= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0404071916.3e361690@posting.google.com>h   Dear Newsgroup,g  B I am heading to Texas on Friday to attend John's memorial.  I haveC been asked to say a few words.  If it is ok with you I will mention/F that your thoughts are with John's family at this time.  If you have a@ personal thought you would like me to convey just send me email.   Sadly, Sueo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:02:18 -0500h@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>@ Subject: Re: J F - different trolling styles on different groups6 Message-ID: <4072C67A.A92D1646@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Nomen Nescio wrote:t > [snip]@ > Hmmm, that's very interesting, how JF's trolling style varies.  G Well, since you seem to be the only who even gives a flying f---, maybenB someone should develop a "Nomen Nescio FAQ" and start spamming the  newsgroups with it, like you do.   Whaddaya think?-   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:47:49 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>*@ Subject: Re: J F - different trolling styles on different groups0 Message-ID: <c4ujf5$5dg$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Nomen Nescio wrote:a >  >>[snip]@ >>Hmmm, that's very interesting, how JF's trolling style varies. >  > I > Well, since you seem to be the only who even gives a flying f---, maybesD > someone should develop a "Nomen Nescio FAQ" and start spamming the" > newsgroups with it, like you do. >  > Whaddaya think?D >  > D.J.D.  = I think the problem is that Nomen Nescio doesn't exist except < as a hiding place. And someting that doesn't exist certainly/ does not need feeding or a FAQ for that matter.y   Regardss Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:45:28 -0400- From: "Kevin Brooks" <brooksvmi@notyahoo.com> @ Subject: Re: J F - different trolling styles on different groups1 Message-ID: <ao6dnabXlaJbZ-_dRVn_iw@adelphia.com>f  D "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message" news:c4utbb$3pb$1@pcls4.std.com...) > Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> writes:o >aB > >In comp.os.vms JF Mezei <jfmezei@istop.com> trolled hesitantly: >t > <snip> >sA > >Hmmm, that's very interesting, how JF's trolling style varies.aJ > >Look how shyly he trolls in comp.os.vms, as if to not step on any toes. >nK > F off, anonymous coward troll.  J Mezei is one of the better contributersm > to comp.os.vms.f  J Wonderful. Just get him to keep his off-topic BS out of RAM--that goes forG you, too, though I'll never know whether you comply or not, as your are 2 hereby...*plonked* into the ol' KF. Good riddance.   Brooks > -- a > -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:08:48 -0500s@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Re: Loss of a VMS legendt6 Message-ID: <4072C800.8E2A5DD5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > X > In article <4071B870.14387342@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > >Sue Skonetski wrote:m > >>@ > >> That was him and he was my dear friend this is a huge loss. > >r0 > >Thanks for confirming that animation was his. > >lT > >I guess condolences also go to his other family: the VMS family at his workplace. > >iP > >Sue, you had mentioned last week that he was in the hospital. Had he returned- > >home or was he in hospital all this time ?i > ? > Hospital for the duration.  Admitted about the 20th of March.s  : Would you happen to know the original cause for admission?   --   David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:13:37 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG! Subject: Re: Loss of a VMS legendc0 Message-ID: <00A2FF50.AEF96A3A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  y In article <4072C800.8E2A5DD5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:l" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> eY >> In article <4071B870.14387342@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:o >> >Sue Skonetski wrote: >> >>iA >> >> That was him and he was my dear friend this is a huge loss.d >> >1 >> >Thanks for confirming that animation was his.  >> >U >> >I guess condolences also go to his other family: the VMS family at his workplace.e >> >Q >> >Sue, you had mentioned last week that he was in the hospital. Had he returnedr. >> >home or was he in hospital all this time ? >> s@ >> Hospital for the duration.  Admitted about the 20th of March. >g; >Would you happen to know the original cause for admission?r  H I believe the original admission was for pneumonia.  Things steadily got	 worse. :(e     --B http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system securityC                             solutions that others only claim to be.t -- aK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa            a5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:10:41 +0300- From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi>i+ Subject: MicroVAX 3800: erasing system disko8 Message-ID: <1ONcc.2474$QB4.408@reader1.news.jippii.net>  L We dumping some of our old VAX systems and I'm trying to find easiest way toI clean application data from disks. Init/erase is good enough in our case,vI but I have one MV 3800 with only one disk and application data is in that I same disk with system. No CD-ROM. So is there any easier way to clean thelK disk than finding the application data and use delete/erase ? There used to H be TEST 70 console command doing disk erase on some microvax models, but$ this seems not to be case with 3800.   -Kari-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:23:58 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3800: erasing system diskh) Message-ID: <4073AC65.F0F9A4CF@istop.com>s   Kari Keronen wrote:nN > We dumping some of our old VAX systems and I'm trying to find easiest way to% > clean application data from disks. s   reboot with STARTUP_P1 = "MIN" nU (you may want to reissue the set volume command after reboot, not sure if persistant)n% You can stop processes such as OPCOM.m  " $SET VOLUME/ERASE_ON_DELETE $diskX) $DELETE/ERASE/LOG $diskX:[000000...]*.*;*4  T (note that the set volume and /ERASE are complementary, use one, the other or both).  J This will essentially delete all files (and overwrite them with a pattern)M except a few system files that remain opened. (since you booted minimum, nonev8 of your application files would be installed or opened.)  M This may leave a somewhat bootable machine, but it will have lost most of itshK identity, and all of your data files. Note that DELETE will make many fileseF for delete, but their data won't be erased (installed files, or images currently running).o  R But you'll be surprised at how well this single command will zap your system disk.    K > but I have one MV 3800 with only one disk and application data is in thate$ > same disk with system. No CD-ROM.   J > be TEST 70 console command doing disk erase on some microvax models, but& > this seems not to be case with 3800.  K Try TEST 75 to format a drive. However, this relies on the disk drive's ownaH formatting software and may or may not make your old data unrecoverable.Q DELETE/ERASE followed by the TEST 75 would basically ensure it isn't recoverable.d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:33:49 -04006 From: "Dominic Olivastro" <DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com>$ Subject: Need help with modem on VAXE Message-ID: <ec161$40731f77$44a5e110$31464@msgid.meganewsservers.com>d   Hello:  , It's been many years since I've posted here.  J We have a VAX 750 running VMS 6.x.  We have an external modem connected toI the VAX via a terminal server.  Using Kermit, I find that the modem neverfJ responds to the AT commands, and therefore never dials out.  If I call in, the Modem never answers.  D Looking around and using SHOW TERM, I decided that I need to set theJ terminal as a modem.  We used to (in the bad days before terminal servers)J just issue the command SET TERM xxx /modem, but now I can't.  I understandK that I need to go through the server for this, but I've looked at LATCP andc NCP, and nothing seems to help.f  
 Any ideas?   Domp   -- ! Dominic Olivastro  CHI Research, Inc   ! web:   http://www.ChiResearch.comr fax:     1-856-546-9633e voice: 1-856-546-0600 (ext 224)e" email:  DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 00:33:24 GMTt( From: Phaeton   <spameater@spam.invalid>( Subject: Re: Need help with modem on VAX8 Message-ID: <o%Hcc.4939$KS1.260359@nasal.pacific.net.au>  ' Phaeton <spameater@spam.invalid> wrote: 7 > Dominic Olivastro <DOlivastro@chiresearch.com> wrote:l: >> [-- text/plain, encoding quoted-printable, 94 lines --] >>  r >> Sorry, I mistakenly sent this to your private email.  I'm not use to the newsreader.  Here it is for the group: >>  & >> ----------------------------------- >> Thanks for the help.  One problem.  When you say to use MCR NCP, I find nothing there that can issue a DEF PORT command, only DEF NODE, DEF LINE, and so on. 5 >        Use MCR LATCP, and the commands mentioned... ? >                                                Cheers,  Csaba   ? 	Sorry, I wasn't thinking :-), nothing new. Yes, once you startl, 	MCR NCP, you need to connect to the node as 	NCP>CONNECT NODE xxxJ> 	where xxx is the nodename for the terminal server. The server@ 	needs a password, and another one for the priviledged commands.B 	Once logged into the terminal server, select the port you want to1 	modify. There is usually a help command as well.t 	Hope this helps...c 							Cheers,  Csabat  J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:   '  Pokemon (n.), A Jamaican proctologist.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:37:14 GMT,& From: Lee Mah <lytmah@telusplanet.net>( Subject: Re: Need help with modem on VAX( Message-ID: <eqFcc.4486$mn3.94@clgrps13>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0605030805090102000005089 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowede Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bito  ' Use the NCP program to define the port.n   $ MC NCP NCP> DEF PORT 2  MODEM ENABLEo$            DEF PORT 2  BREAK DISABLE$            DEF PORT 2  DIALUP ENABLE%            DEF PORT 2 AUTOBAUD ENABLEk%            DEF PORT 2 SESSION LIMIT 1@              ...  > This is what the modem port should look like after definition:  ? Port 2:                                   06 Apr 2004  15:25:39   ? Character Size:            8           Input Speed:       38400G? Flow Control:            XON           Output Speed:      38400a? Parity:                 None           Modem Control:   Enabled.  ? Access:                Local           Local Switch:       Noner? Backwards Switch:       None           Name:                 02e? Break:              Disabled           Session Limit:         1g? Forwards Switch:        None           Type:               AnsiF   Dedicated Service: XXX   Authorized Groups: 0 (Current)  Groups: 0   Enabled Characteristics:  G Autobaud,  Autoconnect,  Autoprompt,  Broadcast,  Dial Up,  Input Flow i Control,G Internet Connections,  Line Editor,  Loss Notification,  Message Codes,u" Output Flow Control,  Verification     Dominic Olivastro wrote:   >Hello:a >@- >It's been many years since I've posted here.> >aK >We have a VAX 750 running VMS 6.x.  We have an external modem connected to J >the VAX via a terminal server.  Using Kermit, I find that the modem neverK >responds to the AT commands, and therefore never dials out.  If I call in,R >the Modem never answers.G >dE >Looking around and using SHOW TERM, I decided that I need to set the K >terminal as a modem.  We used to (in the bad days before terminal servers) K >just issue the command SET TERM xxx /modem, but now I can't.  I understandnL >that I need to go through the server for this, but I've looked at LATCP and  >NCP, and nothing seems to help. >e >Any ideas?y >g >Dom >  >  k >.  & --------------060503080509010200000508) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciie Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">a   <title></title>i </head>i' <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">@+ Use the NCP program to define the port.<br>  <br> <small>$ MC NCP<br>a) NCP&gt; DEF PORT 2&nbsp; MODEM ENABLE<br>o_ &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DEF PORT 2&nbsp; BREAK DISABLE<br> _ &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DEF PORT 2&nbsp; DIALUP ENABLE<br>s[ &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DEF PORT 2 AUTOBAUD ENABLE<br>oc &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DEF PORT 2 SESSION LIMIT 1</small><br>eA &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ...<br>  <br>B This is what the modem port should look like after definition:<br> <br>8 <small><font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">Port 2:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 06 Apr 2004&nbsp; 15:25:39<br>w <br> Character Size:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Input Speed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 38400<br> Flow Control:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; XON&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Output Speed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 38400<br>@ Parity:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Modem Control:&nbsp;&nbsp; Enabled<br>  <br> Access:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Local&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Local Switch:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; None<br> Backwards Switch:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 02<br>  Break:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Disabled&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Session Limit:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<br> Forwards Switch:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Type:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ansi<br> <br> Dedicated Service: XXX<br> <br> Authorized Groups: 0<br> (Current)&nbsp; Groups: 0<br>h <br> Enabled Characteristics:<br> <br>_ Autobaud,&nbsp; Autoconnect,&nbsp; Autoprompt,&nbsp; Broadcast,&nbsp; Dial Up,&nbsp; Input Flow- Control,<br>Z Internet Connections,&nbsp; Line Editor,&nbsp; Loss Notification,&nbsp; Message Codes,<br>+ Output Flow Control,&nbsp; Verification<br>  </font></small><br>w <br> Dominic Olivastro wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" C  cite="midec161$40731f77$44a5e110$31464@msgid.meganewsservers.com">5   <pre wrap="">Hello:n  , It's been many years since I've posted here.  J We have a VAX 750 running VMS 6.x.  We have an external modem connected toI the VAX via a terminal server.  Using Kermit, I find that the modem never J responds to the AT commands, and therefore never dials out.  If I call in, the Modem never answers.  D Looking around and using SHOW TERM, I decided that I need to set theJ terminal as a modem.  We used to (in the bad days before terminal servers)J just issue the command SET TERM xxx /modem, but now I can't.  I understandK that I need to go through the server for this, but I've looked at LATCP anda NCP, and nothing seems to help.e  
 Any ideas?   Dom      </pre>
 </blockquote>- </body>e </html>   ( --------------060503080509010200000508--   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:12:00 -04006 From: "Dominic Olivastro" <DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com>( Subject: Re: Need help with modem on VAXE Message-ID: <c92f9$4073287c$44a5e110$32065@msgid.meganewsservers.com>H  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C41C02.AE26B0A0f Content-Type: text/plain;o 	charset="iso-8859-1"e+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable>  J Sorry, I mistakenly sent this to your private email.  I'm not use to the =& newsreader.  Here it is for the group:  # -----------------------------------gI Thanks for the help.  One problem.  When you say to use MCR NCP, I find =aE nothing there that can issue a DEF PORT command, only DEF NODE, DEF =  LINE, and so on.=20J  F It's been a long time, but I think I need to connect to the terminal =I server first (correct?).  I tried CONNECT NODE TERM4, and I get the "#" = I prompt back.  But at that point anything else that I type does not echo =eG back.  I thought (working from memory) that I need to issue an ACCESS =n2 command, and then SET PRIV, but I can not do this.  = Any more help?  I really appreciate what you're doing for me.r   Dom1$ ------------------------------------   --=20e Dominic Olivastro: CHI Research, Incn  ! web:   http://www.ChiResearch.com- fax:     1-856-546-9633u voice: 1-856-546-0600 (ext 224)r" email:  DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com7   "Lee Mah" <lytmah@telusplanet.net> wrote in message =T" news:eqFcc.4486$mn3.94@clgrps13...)   Use the NCP program to define the port.:  
   $ MC NCP   NCP> DEF PORT 2  MODEM ENABLEc&              DEF PORT 2  BREAK DISABLE&              DEF PORT 2  DIALUP ENABLE'              DEF PORT 2 AUTOBAUD ENABLEJ'              DEF PORT 2 SESSION LIMIT 1r                ...  @   This is what the modem port should look like after definition:  A   Port 2:                                   06 Apr 2004  15:25:39n  A   Character Size:            8           Input Speed:       38400oA   Flow Control:            XON           Output Speed:      38400iA   Parity:                 None           Modem Control:   Enabled>  A   Access:                Local           Local Switch:       None A   Backwards Switch:       None           Name:                 02sA   Break:              Disabled           Session Limit:         1 A   Forwards Switch:        None           Type:               Ansin     Dedicated Service: XXX     Authorized Groups: 0   (Current)  Groups: 0     Enabled Characteristics:  J   Autobaud,  Autoconnect,  Autoprompt,  Broadcast,  Dial Up,  Input Flow = Control,D   Internet Connections,  Line Editor,  Loss Notification,  Message = Codes,$   Output Flow Control,  Verification       Dominic Olivastro wrote:   Hello:  , It's been many years since I've posted here.  I We have a VAX 750 running VMS 6.x.  We have an external modem connected =c toE the VAX via a terminal server.  Using Kermit, I find that the modem =a never:H responds to the AT commands, and therefore never dials out.  If I call = in,> the Modem never answers.  D Looking around and using SHOW TERM, I decided that I need to set theC terminal as a modem.  We used to (in the bad days before terminal =e servers)A just issue the command SET TERM xxx /modem, but now I can't.  I =u
 understandI that I need to go through the server for this, but I've looked at LATCP =e andv NCP, and nothing seems to help.i  
 Any ideas?   Dom      + ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C41C02.AE26B0A0c Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablel  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>r! <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type =t) content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1>t9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>o <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>m' <BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff> H <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry, I mistakenly sent this to your =
 private=20G email.&nbsp; I'm not use to the newsreader.&nbsp; Here it is for the=20n group:</FONT></DIV>g4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =r9 size=3D2>-----------------------------------</FONT></DIV>y <DIV> A <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the help.&nbsp; One =y problem.&nbsp; When=20H you say to use MCR NCP, I find nothing there that can issue a DEF PORT = command,=20-1 only DEF NODE, DEF LINE, and so on. </FONT></DIV> 4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>G <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's been a long time, but I think I =t
 need to=20H connect to the terminal server first (correct?).&nbsp; I tried CONNECT = NODE=20 D TERM4, and&nbsp;I get the "#" prompt back.&nbsp; But at that point = anything else=20G that I type does not echo back.&nbsp; I thought (working from memory) =D	 that I=20 G need to issue an ACCESS command, and then SET PRIV, but I can not do=20h this.</FONT></DIV>4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>@ <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any more help?&nbsp; I really = appreciate what=20! you're doing for me.</FONT></DIV> 4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>1 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dom</FONT></DIV>u <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20@ size=3D2>------------------------------------</FONT></DIV></DIV>< <DIV><BR>-- <BR>Dominic Olivastro<BR>CHI Research, Inc</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>F <DIV>web:&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20,J href=3D"http://www.ChiResearch.com">http://www.ChiResearch.com</A><BR>fax= :&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20G 1-856-546-9633<BR>voice: 1-856-546-0600 (ext 224)<BR>email:&nbsp; <A=20 J href=3D"mailto:DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com">DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com</A>= </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20C style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = 3 BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">.   <DIV>"Lee Mah" &lt;<A=20I   href=3D"mailto:lytmah@telusplanet.net">lytmah@telusplanet.net</A>&gt; =e wrote in=20e   message <A=20    = J href=3D"news:eqFcc.4486$mn3.94@clgrps13">news:eqFcc.4486$mn3.94@clgrps13<= /A>...</DIV>Use=20I   the NCP program to define the port.<BR><BR><SMALL>$ MC NCP<BR>NCP&gt; =e DEF PORT=20a   2&nbsp; MODEM=20J   ENABLE<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = DEF=20   PORT 2&nbsp; BREAK=20m   =aI DISABLE<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =V DEF=20   PORT 2&nbsp; DIALUP=20J   ENABLE<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = DEF=20   PORT 2 AUTOBAUD=20J   ENABLE<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = DEF=20E   PORT 2 SESSION LIMIT 1</SMALL><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; =l &nbsp;&nbsp;=20 H   &nbsp;&nbsp; ...<BR><BR>This is what the modem port should look like = after=20A   definition:<BR><BR><SMALL><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier, =g monospace">Port=20   =iJ 2:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=J ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=? &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20 0   06 Apr 2004&nbsp; 15:25:39<BR><BR>Character=20   = J Size:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20H   8&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Input=20=   Speed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 38400<BR>Flow=20:   =cJ Control:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= ;=20J   XON&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Output =  )   Speed:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20    =lJ 38400<BR>Parity:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=* sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20J   None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Modem =     Control:&nbsp;&nbsp;=20    =hJ Enabled<BR><BR>Access:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=* sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20E   Local&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =D Local=20B   Switch:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; None<BR>Backwards=200   Switch:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20E   None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20.   =hJ Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20m   =oJ 02<BR>Break:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20H   Disabled&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
 Session=20I   Limit:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1<BR>Forwards=20i6   Switch:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20E   None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20b   = J Type:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20sA   Ansi<BR><BR>Dedicated Service: XXX<BR><BR>Authorized Groups:=20y2   0<BR>(Current)&nbsp; Groups: 0<BR><BR>Enabled=20>   Characteristics:<BR><BR>Autobaud,&nbsp; Autoconnect,&nbsp; = Autoprompt,&nbsp;=20D   Broadcast,&nbsp; Dial Up,&nbsp; Input Flow Control,<BR>Internet=20J   Connections,&nbsp; Line Editor,&nbsp; Loss Notification,&nbsp; Message =  )   Codes,<BR>Output Flow Control,&nbsp;=20DE   Verification<BR></FONT></SMALL><BR><BR>Dominic Olivastro wrote:<BR>n   <BLOCKQUOTE =dD cite=3Dmidec161$40731f77$44a5e110$31464@msgid.meganewsservers.com=20%   type=3D"cite"><PRE wrap=3D"">Hello:S  , It's been many years since I've posted here.  I We have a VAX 750 running VMS 6.x.  We have an external modem connected =s toE the VAX via a terminal server.  Using Kermit, I find that the modem =a neveraH responds to the AT commands, and therefore never dials out.  If I call = in,7 the Modem never answers.  D Looking around and using SHOW TERM, I decided that I need to set theC terminal as a modem.  We used to (in the bad days before terminal =b servers)A just issue the command SET TERM xxx /modem, but now I can't.  I = 
 understandI that I need to go through the server for this, but I've looked at LATCP =f ande NCP, and nothing seems to help.n  
 Any ideas?   Dom   0   </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C41C02.AE26B0A0--u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 00:22:22 GMT0( From: Phaeton   <spameater@spam.invalid>( Subject: Re: Need help with modem on VAX8 Message-ID: <2RHcc.4937$KS1.260239@nasal.pacific.net.au>  5 Dominic Olivastro <DOlivastro@chiresearch.com> wrote: 9 > [-- text/plain, encoding quoted-printable, 94 lines --]' > q > Sorry, I mistakenly sent this to your private email.  I'm not use to the newsreader.  Here it is for the group:E > % > -----------------------------------  > Thanks for the help.  One problem.  When you say to use MCR NCP, I find nothing there that can issue a DEF PORT command, only DEF NODE, DEF LINE, and so on. .- 	Use MCR LATCP, and the commands mentioned...e 						Cheers,  Csaba  J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:l  '  Pokemon (n.), A Jamaican proctologist.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:05:46 GMTe& From: Lee Mah <lytmah@telusplanet.net>( Subject: Re: Need help with modem on VAX* Message-ID: <KvPcc.5798$2H4.2205@clgrps12>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0303090805000306030109029 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit-  . I apologize.  I left out critical information.F Also, the baud rate shown on my previous post will not necessarily be  38400 for your port.  : Here's a couple of ways to connect to the terminal server.  F     1. You can connect a VT terminal to a port on the terminal server.>         Press "Return" and you should get the "local>" prompt.             Local> set privn>             Password> xxxxxx    (Look in your terminal server ! documentation for this password.)eG             Local>                      (Now you can do the "DEF PORT"  
 commands.)  E     2. If you are running DECnet IV and the terminal server TERM4 is n defined,"             NCP>connect node term4:             Console connected (press CTRL/D when finished)H             <Return>                         (Press the Enter or Return  key.)<G             #  xxxxxx                         (Echo is disabled here.  r Enter the password.)A             DECserver 200 Terminal Server V3.3A (BL40) - LAT V5.1              SYSTEM MANAGER             3             Please type HELP if you need assistancem             8             Enter username> ^Z            (Enter CTRL/Z)               Local> set priv0?             Password> xxxxxx              (Enter the password.) G             Local>                                (Enter your DEF PORT  
 commands.)  F         When you finish defining the port, enter CTRL/D to get out of  the "Local>" prompt.  n    & --------------030309080500030603010902) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciie Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">    <title></title>n </head>h' <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">o7 I apologize.&nbsp; I left out critical information.<br>oE Also, the baud rate shown on my previous post will not necessarily bet 38400 for your port.<br> <br>> Here's a couple of ways to connect to the terminal server.<br> <br>Y &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. You can connect a VT terminal to a port on the terminal server.<br>$c &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Press "Return" and you should get the "local&gt;" prompt.<br>iO &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Local&gt; set priv<br>e &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Password&gt; xxxxxx&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <i>(Look in your terminal servert) documentation for this password.)</i><br>- &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Local&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<b> </b><i>(Now you can doa! the "DEF PORT" commands.)</i><br>o <br>S &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. If you are running DECnet IV and the terminal server TERM4 isd defined,<br>V &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; NCP&gt;connect node term4<br>k &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Console connected (press CTRL/D when finished)<br>  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Return&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <i>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Press the Entero or Return key.)</i><br>n &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; #&nbsp; xxxxxx&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <i>(Echo is disablede( here.&nbsp; Enter the password.)</i><br>r &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DECserver 200 Terminal Server V3.3A (BL40) - LAT V5.1<br>K &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SYSTEM MANAGER<br> = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br> d &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please type HELP if you need assistance<br>= &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>- &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Enter username&gt; ^Z&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <i>(Enter CTRL/Z)</i><br> <br>O &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Local&gt; set priv<br>@ &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Password&gt; xxxxxx&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <i>(Enter the password.)</i><br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Local&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (<i>Enter your DEF  PORT commands.)</i><br>l <br>c &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; When you finish defining the port, enter CTRL/D to get out ofu the "Local&gt;" prompt.<br>d
 &nbsp;<br> <br> </body>  </html>-  ( --------------030309080500030603010902--   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:09:27 +0100NO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>s  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?0 Message-ID: <c4udmn$3ev$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:e > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c4k4gp$jjh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...p >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>U >>>In article <406d79fc_2@corp.newsgroups.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:- >>>- >>>-; >>>>Did advertising make Sun non-profitable since dot-bomb?m >>>> >>>r >>> D >>>	No.  Their collapse is more tied to cheaper Wintel kit and LinuxH >>>	on Intel.  The dot-bomb song and dance they trotted out for a numberA >>>	of quarters was old news.  Their collapse is on-going and not I >>>	industry-wide. i.e. easily refuted by IBM's Unix growth over the lastl >>>	year plus. >>>  >>9 >>Really so how do you account for HP's inability to makey: >>a profit from their hardware businesses except printing. >  > F > They actually did make a profit last quarter. _AND_ considering thatF > HP is not focused on this while Sun has its entire focus on this and> > even then cannot make profit, that should tell you someting.    : They actually did not unless you think that the R&D budget for the EBU is 0.H   Do you ?   Regards- Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:03:45 +0100oO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?0 Message-ID: <c4udc1$36j$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dan Notov wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>z= > wrote in message news:c4k4gp$jjh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com.... >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>< >>>In article <406d79fc_2@corp.newsgroups.com>, "John Smith" >  > <a@nonymous.com> writes: > ; >>>>Did advertising make Sun non-profitable since dot-bomb?  >>>> >>>, >>>yC >>>No.  Their collapse is more tied to cheaper Wintel kit and LinuxcG >>>on Intel.  The dot-bomb song and dance they trotted out for a numberA@ >>>of quarters was old news.  Their collapse is on-going and notH >>>industry-wide. i.e. easily refuted by IBM's Unix growth over the last
 >>>year plus.  >>>  >>9 >>Really so how do you account for HP's inability to make : >>a profit from their hardware businesses except printing. > 0 > ESS and PSG were both profitable last quarter:, > http://biz.yahoo.com/e/040311/hpq10-q.html > M > Sun has lost nearly $5B over the past two years. 3Q losses are projected at0 > $700-800MM >   . Only if you think that a write down is a loss.   Regardse Andrew Harrison>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:06:49 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>   Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?0 Message-ID: <c4udhq$3ev$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote: > In article <c4k4gp$jjh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>U >>>In article <406d79fc_2@corp.newsgroups.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >>>J >>>t; >>>>Did advertising make Sun non-profitable since dot-bomb?  >>>> >>>  >>>/D >>>	No.  Their collapse is more tied to cheaper Wintel kit and LinuxH >>>	on Intel.  The dot-bomb song and dance they trotted out for a numberA >>>	of quarters was old news.  Their collapse is on-going and notaI >>>	industry-wide. i.e. easily refuted by IBM's Unix growth over the last  >>>	year plus. >>>n >>9 >>Really so how do you account for HP's inability to make.: >>a profit from their hardware businesses except printing. >> >  > J > 	Good question.  But I think (without looking) HP's Enterprise division I > 	actually made a small profit last quarter.  Can the same be said abouthA > 	Sun's?  But of course my point still stands right?  The Sun isd > 	sinking . . . >    Nope wrong again Rob.m  A To make a profit (an actual profit) the EBU needs to do somethinga@ like 400 million in the black each quarter unless you think that< all the HP SW and HW developers work for free and do it in a field.  A Or had you forgotten that HP moved the R&D costs for the EBU intol' a central pot to be paid for by toner ?r   Regardss Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:08:26 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>t  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?0 Message-ID: <c4udkq$3ev$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   GreyCloud wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>< >>>In article <406d79fc_2@corp.newsgroups.com>, "John Smith" >>><a@nonymous.com> writes:  >>>e >>>a; >>>>Did advertising make Sun non-profitable since dot-bomb?m >>>> >>>s >>>DC >>>No.  Their collapse is more tied to cheaper Wintel kit and LinuxoG >>>on Intel.  The dot-bomb song and dance they trotted out for a numbero@ >>>of quarters was old news.  Their collapse is on-going and notH >>>industry-wide. i.e. easily refuted by IBM's Unix growth over the last
 >>>year plus.e >>>  >>9 >>Really so how do you account for HP's inability to maked: >>a profit from their hardware businesses except printing. >> >  > F > LOL!!  Sun must have the same accounting practices that HP has then. >  >   . If your beleive that then the laugh is on you.  = Trust me we don't though they will be getting closer together  now that everyone has to do SO.o   Regards: Andrew Harrison0   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:32:25 GMTi9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>a  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?1 Message-ID: <d4Acc.2377$nG1.776@news.cpqcorp.net>t  % "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" > < > They actually did not unless you think that the R&D budget > for the EBU is 0.t >p
 > Do you ? >s  I I looked at the org chart, and I can't even figure out what the "EBU" is.0? VMS is part of BCS, which is part of ESS, which is part of ESG.n  K Your attempt to try and FUD up things is pretty humorous.  Even if your FUDnJ were true - it just would point out that being a large and diverse companyL has the advantage that you can ride out the ups-and-downs of the market more( effectively than a small one-trick pony.  : I know where the VMS budget comes from - and it isn't ink.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:45:18 GMT $ From: "GreyCloud" <mist@Cumulus.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?8 Message-ID: <igAcc.1631$Wc4.5583@bcandid.telisphere.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > GreyCloud wrote:+ >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:t >> >>> Rob Young wrote: >>>s> >>>> In article <406d79fc_2@corp.newsgroups.com>, "John Smith" >>>> <a@nonymous.com> writes:d >>>> >>>>= >>>>> Did advertising make Sun non-profitable since dot-bomb?  >>>>>H >>>> >>>>E >>>> No.  Their collapse is more tied to cheaper Wintel kit and LinuxtB >>>> on Intel.  The dot-bomb song and dance they trotted out for aE >>>> number of quarters was old news.  Their collapse is on-going and-E >>>> not industry-wide. i.e. easily refuted by IBM's Unix growth overi >>>> the last year plus. >>>> >>> ; >>> Really so how do you account for HP's inability to make1< >>> a profit from their hardware businesses except printing. >>>e >> >>G >> LOL!!  Sun must have the same accounting practices that HP has then.v >> >> >a0 > If your beleive that then the laugh is on you. >   K Guffaw!!  I don't expect a Sun consultant to know what the accounting dept.e does.n) Never met a consultant yet that did know.e  ? > Trust me we don't though they will be getting closer togetherI! > now that everyone has to do SO.e >   I I'd say that Sun is attaching itself to Micro$ofts' coattails to survive.SH All the U.S. articles show Sun and M$ getting buddy-buddy lately.  LooksK like an act of desperation from the perspective of sinking profits and losssK of business.  Did Scott finally realize that only a weasel like Ballmer cann help Sun to survive?! What a strange set of bedfellows.5   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:56:48 +0100cO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>m  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?0 Message-ID: <c4uk00$5ku$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:' > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" >a > < >>They actually did not unless you think that the R&D budget >>for the EBU is 0.  >>
 >>Do you ? >> >  > K > I looked at the org chart, and I can't even figure out what the "EBU" is.rA > VMS is part of BCS, which is part of ESS, which is part of ESG.  >   : So now you have the Org chart down pat excellent so is the R&D budget for ESG = 0 or not ?o    M > Your attempt to try and FUD up things is pretty humorous.  Even if your FUDDL > were true - it just would point out that being a large and diverse companyN > has the advantage that you can ride out the ups-and-downs of the market more* > effectively than a small one-trick pony. > < > I know where the VMS budget comes from - and it isn't ink. >  >   @ Sure does unless you have started printing money with the toner.  = Do the math. HP's R&D expenditure is ~ 4 billion the servicesd= business doesn't do R&D, most of the printing division R&D iso8 outsourced to other vendors such as Canon leaving the PC division and the ESG.l  < The R&D costs for the ESG used to be declared in the ESG P&L: and the ESG lost money. It isn't now and the ESG is making7 a small amount of money each quarter. But not enough tou6 cover ESG's share of the R&D pot, so who pays for it ?  8 Its either printing and the positive margins in printing; come from consumables or to a much smaller extent services.i   regards- Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:57:45 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>e  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?1 Message-ID: <dkBcc.2383$Bs1.817@news.cpqcorp.net>.  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"8 > >t> > > I know where the VMS budget comes from - and it isn't ink. > >f > >c >nB > Sure does unless you have started printing money with the toner. >D  H Trust me FUDster.  I know *exactly* where the VMS R&D budget originates.) And it isn't with the guys that sell ink.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:07:37 -0400.* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?) Message-ID: <40731C16.2772F53A@istop.com>2   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > Trust me FUDster.  I know *exactly* where the VMS R&D budget originates.+ > And it isn't with the guys that sell ink.a  N Well, you also know where the VMS R&D budget goes... to your bank account, and) then to your wife :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:11:34 +0200  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>B Subject: Re: OT - VAT in EU & Outsourced customer service - Amazon- Message-ID: <c4uhb5$1lit$1@news.cybercity.dk>v   Paul Sture wrote:d > Dr. Dweeb wrote: >> JF Mezei wrote: >> >>> "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: >>> C >>>> Since a UK company cannot levy TVA on sales executed in the UKo@ >>>> (only VAT), am I to understand that the TVA is being levied: >>>> locally at point of entry by the French authorities ? >>>sH >>> In Canada, this is how it works generally. If you have stuff shippedC >>> from the USA, there is no customs anymore (free trade), but thecD >>> courier/postal system will knock at your door to collect the GSTF >>> (VAT) of the imported gizmo. Now, due to the volumes of shipments,E >>> the post office for instance, doesn't really bother with anythingn$ >>> less than $20 of declared value. >>>d> >>> However, some US mail order outfits actually have canadianF >>> registrations and will charge you GST, and indicate on the waybillF >>> that the GST has already been collected, so the package then flowsG >>> through customs without any delay of processing. The US outfit then C >>> sends the collected taxes to the canadian government at regular9 >>> intervals. >>>-F >>> In the EU however, because of the number of countries involved, itG >>> wouldn't make sense to expect a UK outfit to have VAT accounts with  >>> every country in; >>> the EU and then collect taxes specific to each country.  >>>t >> >>' >> That is why they changed the rules !l >> >>= >>> Also, if A collects 4 euros in VAT and gives it to the UKa> >>> government, when B makes its tax declaration to the frenchB >>> government and needs to have that 4 euros refunded, the french? >>> government can't really refund that amount because it nevernD >>> actually collected it and has no way to get the UK government to >>> transfer it. >>>s >> >>F >> You need to apply to the UK Inland Revenue.  This is how it used to> >> work for all transactions, and still does for some types ofE >> transactions.  In practice it was very difficult to get money backb. >> from some jurisdictions - trust me, I know. >>C >> I have recently received GBP back from the UK Inland Revenue forN >> example.m >>H >> An example of such a transaction we would be training courses.  An HPC >> training course delivered in UK by HP UK and charged to a FrenchsF >> customer would include UK VAT.  The French customer would then makeG >> a claim to the Inland Revenue for a refund - it takes 4-6 months forp >> processing. >> >pA > Correction. Each instance of "Inland Revenue" above should readpD > "Customs & Excise". They are two separate bodies. The former dealsD > with personal and company taxation, the latter with import duties, > VAT, smuggling etc.&  " Indeed - apologies for that error.   >b >>E >>> So it makes sense that sales across the border would be VAT free,iA >>> and that the destination's VAT would then be collected at thep# >>> border by the shipping company.n >> >>D >> Yes.  However if it comes via a courier, they often charge an armD >> and leg for doing the VAT paperwork.  One needs to check with the >> courier service on this.p >> >> Dr. Dweeb   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:55:11 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.orgH Subject: PBXGK-BB (ELSA GLoria Synergy, 4D10T (?)) DECwindows colormaps?) Message-ID: <04040713551152@antinode.org>;  D    As my old display was getting cranky, and I needed a newer one toF deal with the ELSA GLoria Synergy (PBXGK-BB) card in my "new" PersonalE WorkStation, I got something newer.  The first problem was the fairlynH spectacular ringing when it was driven from the PBXGA-CA (ZXLp-E3) in myC AlpSta 200 4/233, but I figured I could just drop in a PBXGK and be1 happy.  H    Not so.  All seemed well until I started Mozilla ("CPQ AXPVMS MOZILLAH M1.5") which thoroughly hosed the color map whenever it had focus.  This$ was not a problem with the old card.  E    XDPYINFO suggests that while I have lots of deep depths, I have no   visuals with more than 8 planes:  
 screen #0:7   dimensions:    1280x1024 pixels (325x260 millimeters)a&   resolution:    100x100 dots per inch$   depths (6):    1, 4, 8, 12, 24, 32   root window id:    0x30 #   depth of root window:    8 planeso.   number of colormaps:    minimum 1, maximum 1   default colormap:    0x2ds*   default number of colormap cells:    256 [...]o   number of visuals:    12   default visual id:  0x27 [...]dG [All visuals say, "significant bits in color specification: 8   bits".]"  C    I seem to recall seeing some "24" values before I pulled the oldAG PBXGA card.  Do I have something (what?) configured badly (how?), or isiC this all I should expect from the ELSA card?  (The thing has 8MB ofp memory.  What's the problem?)e  =    Currently: VMS V7.3-1 (+ "DEC AXPVMS VMS731_UPDATE V1.0").   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgm    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547s   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:32:37 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.orgH Subject: PBXGK-BB (ELSA GLoria Synergy, 4D10T (?)) DECwindows colormaps?) Message-ID: <04040722323745@antinode.org>0  F    Ok.  I found the logical name, DECW$SERVER_PIXEL_DEPTH, and settingD that to 24 provides better color depths.  The Web browsers are again usable.N  I    Now, however, MMOV$ALPHAVCR.EXE fails silently (so far as I can see). mB My first guess is that I need a different "default visual", but byB following all the contradictory advice I've found so far regardingB DECW$SERVER_DEFAULT_VISUAL_CLASS, I've found nothing which changes9 "default visual id:  0x24", which seems to refer to this:   	   visual:o     visual id:    0x24     class:    TrueColorr     depth:    24 planes-$     size of colormap:    256 entries5     red, green, blue masks:    0xff, 0xff00, 0xff0000a6     significant bits in color specification:    8 bits  H    Any reasonably accurate advice would be appreciated.  Is anyone using& MMOV$ALPHAVCR.EXE with an ELSA GLoria?  =    Currently: VMS V7.3-1 (+ "DEC AXPVMS VMS731_UPDATE V2.0" +  "VMS731_GRAPHICS V3.0").  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:29:11 -0500-! From: rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock)  Subject: Re: SIMH V3.2 releasedw2 Message-ID: <c9ydnR6urpwqI-_dRVn-sQ@speakeasy.net>  , Toby Thain <toby@telegraphics.com.au> wrote: +---------------& | ian@beathoven.com (paramucho) wrote:I | > On average, the box in front of me needs rebooting two or three timesoJ | > and when it doesn't the power takes a dip and does it for me. The joys | > of the country.K | 7 | At my office, the power is quite reliable. Our office ? | mail/proxy/fax/DNS/web development server (Debian 2.2, kernelI4 | 2.4.18-pre7) is sitting on 233 days up as I write. +---------------       % uname -nprs *     FreeBSD fast.rpw3.org 4.6-RELEASE i386     % uptimeJ      7:27AM  up 476 days,  1:42, 15 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00     %   M Of course, I *did* buy a small UPS after the last power-fail-induced crash...      -Rob   -----  Rob Warnock			<rpw3@rpw3.org> ( 627 26th Avenue			<URL:http://rpw3.org/>" San Mateo, CA 94403		(650)572-2607   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:42:39 -0400 1 From: Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.nospam.com>  Subject: Re: SIMH V3.2 released 8 Message-ID: <8ve5705m7tpsj4fomdm450qgb7hci7hg16@4ax.com>  2 On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:58:56 +0200, Christian Corti2 <Christian.Corti@studserv.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:  D >In alt.sys.pdp11 Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.nospam.com> wrote:. >> SIMH V3.2 was released today, on the web at! >> http://simh.trailing-edge.com.o >oI >> 5. LGP30/LGP21 - new simulators of Royal-Mcbee drum/disk based systems ! >> from the late 50's/early 60's.  >eI >Nice to see this in simh, I will make some comments on this (we have theo. >only working LGP-30 incl. all docs, SW etc.): >i= >- You should not provide a builtin 10.4 replacement into thetC >  simulator. Instead you have to provide the means to load 9.0 and.G >  *eventually* 10.4 from tape. This is because there are programs that I >  have to be loaded by 9.0 and uses tracks normally used by 10.4 (tracksr >  0000 to 0263).c  F If you'd like to suggest a mechanism for 'booting' the tape typewriterE or the paper tape reader, I'm happy to implement it.  One possibility D is to set up memory with the 'result state' of the 9.0 procedure andC then transfer control to it.  Note that the 'builtin' 10.4 takes nosF space on the drum; it is simulator code, not simulated instructions on	 the drum.B > G >- You have to provide loading and saving routines for storing the drumMF >  and registers contents into a file and retrieving it the next time.I >  This is because you can stop a running program, shut down the machine,SH >  have a nice weekend, and come back next week and restart your program' >  where you have stopped it last time.n  B SAVE <file> does exactly this; RESTORE <file> restores the machine state. >e@ >- You should provide a visual scope and buttons display becauseH >  operating a LGP-30 makes heavy use of the console. Even some programsH >  (some games for example) need the bitwise display of the registers inE >  order to be usable or pushing a breakpoint or the transfer button.  > I >- You should have a way to support the two ribbon colors (red and black)n >  of the Flexowriter. >L@ Both of these require graphics support, which is in development.B Portability across Windows, Unix, VMS, and Mac OS/X makes graphics complicated.  B >- You urgently need a way to show the user whether the machine is# >  running or waiting for an input.  >MA The simulator prints out a prompt (`) if it is waiting for manualnA input.  If this isn't sufficiently clear, it's easy to change therA prompt to something else (like [Waiting for input], or an audiblea beep).  C >- Because of the lack of key accessable button functions (e.g. ther& >  F-Keys) loading 9.0 is a real pain.  B What's an F-key?  There's no mention of this in the documentation.D All of the documented functions of both the front panel and the tape0 typewriter are implemented via SET commands, eg,   set cpu fill  9 will transfer the A register to IR; or to directly set IR-   set cpu fill =<hex value>F  F The 9.0 procedure is indeed very painful.  Since the purpose is to getD about 5 words into memory, the results can be recreated with deposit
 commands, eg,h   sim> d addr vali sim> d addr valB :a sim> d c val sim> d a val sim> run >4F >- I wasn't able to load a program because the interface is not really3 >  usable and the builtin 10.4 lacks some commands.s  E Please let me know what additional parts of 10.4 are required.  I was D working with a collection of transcribed paper tapes that I found on! the Web, and they load correctly.V  B I'm also happy to change the interface which is, admittedly, quite? wordy compared to pushing buttons.  Standard functions (such as E loading 9.0 or 10.4), once implemented, could be written up as script3F files, which are then executed via the DO command.  Note, though, thatD the purpose of the simulator is to run software, not to recreate theF operational experience of an LGP-30.  If functions can be done throughC existing simulator interfaces (see comments on 9.0), that suffices.p >bH >- The first mentions of the LGP-30 are dated from 1954 (or even before)# >  so it is quite an "old" machine.s >nH >BTW I too have written a LGP-30 simulator. It is written in TurboPascal= >and runs fine under DOS or in dosemu. I needed one after the I >restauration phase of our LGP-30 in order to verify its functions and to C >do cross development. It has many nice features like sending FlexomH >output to a printer, drum save/restore, etc. I always wanted to make it  >public for downloading one day.    I'd encourage you to publish it. >s
 >Christian   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:51:23 +0200A From: Christian Corti <Christian.Corti@studserv.uni-stuttgart.de>n Subject: Re: SIMH V3.2 released;+ Message-ID: <91sck1-41v.ln1@news.online.de>B  C In alt.sys.pdp11 Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.nospam.com> wrote:bH > If you'd like to suggest a mechanism for 'booting' the tape typewriterG > or the paper tape reader, I'm happy to implement it.  One possibility4F > is to set up memory with the 'result state' of the 9.0 procedure andE > then transfer control to it.  Note that the 'builtin' 10.4 takes nopH > space on the drum; it is simulator code, not simulated instructions on > the drum.   D With the SAVE and RESTORE commands in simh (I missed them when goingF through the code), I would suggest to have a 10.4 dump and a 9.0 dump.A This way you don't need to emulate 10.4. I have programs that uses the + command.  B > Both of these require graphics support, which is in development.D > Portability across Windows, Unix, VMS, and Mac OS/X makes graphics > complicated.  < I'm using underscores and dashes for the scope display (e.g.G ---___-__---_-__-_-____--_-__--_). The color could be done with displayp= enhancements like reverse or underline (termcap, curses etc.)s  C > The simulator prints out a prompt (`) if it is waiting for manualpC > input.  If this isn't sufficiently clear, it's easy to change the;C > prompt to something else (like [Waiting for input], or an audibles > beep).  D How's the input terminated i.e. the machine restarted? I hope NOT by pressing enter.n  D > What's an F-key?  There's no mention of this in the documentation.  D I've been unclear. I meant using the function keys on the simulatingB computer keyboard like the F-keys on a PC keyboard or LK201 as the console buttons.  F > All of the documented functions of both the front panel and the tape2 > typewriter are implemented via SET commands, eg,  C The problem is that the LGP-30 is not a purely (console) typewriters= based computer. Instead there is much interaction between thea5 Flexowriter, its buttons and the computer frontpanel.   " > I'd encourage you to publish it.  G I'm working on it... It's good to have two LGP simulators now, simh andN0 mine, each with a slightly different philosophy.  	 Christian,   PS:2@ If you want to try simh with real LGP software have a look here:2 ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/lgp30   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:15:01 +0000 (UTC)Q From: helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)M) Subject: Re: simple question on shadowing $ Message-ID: <c4ul25$8cu$1@online.de>  H In article <c4qmcg$u3r$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:   U > helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  > - > >  Or will there be HBVS minimerge for VAX?e > H > Get the terminology right.  MiniMERGE has existed for years, exists onH > VAX and in fact I think it may date to before Alpha.  MiniCOPY is new,D > and will work on all disks (not just those on CI/DSSI controllers)  H Note that I am talking about minimerge for host-based voolume shadowing  (HBVS).O   At >  B    http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=cf15391e3           .0312310812.7cf59c06%40posting.google.com4   (watch the wrap), one can read:a  G    Host-based Mini-Merge is not included in 7.3-2.  The schedule posted G    in July 2003 said it would be supported on 7.3-1 and above, and thats3    the kit should be out near the end of Q1 CY2004.i  I OK, I had forgotten that.  However, this a) makes it sound quite new and u? b) makes it sound ALPHA-only (since there is no 7.3-1 for VAX).t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:17:32 GMTh/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)I) Subject: Re: simple question on shadowingR- Message-ID: <N2zKyxdONg1D@cuebid.zko.dec.com>.  2 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > (Michael Moroney) writes: V >> helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >> g. >> >  Or will there be HBVS minimerge for VAX? >> -I >> Get the terminology right.  MiniMERGE has existed for years, exists onHI >> VAX and in fact I think it may date to before Alpha.  MiniCOPY is new,mE >> and will work on all disks (not just those on CI/DSSI controllers)  > J > Note that I am talking about minimerge for host-based voolume shadowing 	 > (HBVS).  > F > At   http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=cf15391e5 >           .0312310812.7cf59c06%40posting.google.com0 > ! > (watch the wrap), one can read:  > I >    Host-based Mini-Merge is not included in 7.3-2.  The schedule postedzI >    in July 2003 said it would be supported on 7.3-1 and above, and thato5 >    the kit should be out near the end of Q1 CY2004.  > K > OK, I had forgotten that.  However, this a) makes it sound quite new and nA > b) makes it sound ALPHA-only (since there is no 7.3-1 for VAX).   G What Mike is referring to as existing for some time is CONTROLLER basediC minimerge.  That is for disks connected to HSC/HSD/HSJ controllers.o  G Host-based Minimerge (HBMM) will be for all disks, although the initialNH implementation likely will not allow disks eligible for controller-based minimerge to be used with HBMM.E  L Since we are using the Write Bitmap stuff to do HBMM, HBMM is Alpha and IA64N only.  VAX use of minicopy is limited to the ability to have writes tracked --O VAXes are not allowed perform minicopy recovery.  This is because VAXes are not O allowed to have master bitmaps, and the ability to maintain master bitmaps is amH requirement for HBMM.  It is almost a certainty that VAXes will not ever/ have the capability to maintain master bitmaps.s  B A limited external field test for HBMM for V7.3-1 is underway now.  N A more broad external field test for HBMM for V7.3-2 should start in late May,# and will be available in Q4 CY2004.   < HBMM will be integrated with OpenVMS V8.2 for Alpha and IA64   -- s  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:28:50 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)) Subject: Re: simple question on shadowingE$ Message-ID: <c4upci$cgc$5@online.de>  - In article <N2zKyxdONg1D@cuebid.zko.dec.com>,82 brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:   4 > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > (Michael Moroney) writes:  > >> h0 > >> >  Or will there be HBVS minimerge for VAX? > >> yK > >> Get the terminology right.  MiniMERGE has existed for years, exists onhK > >> VAX and in fact I think it may date to before Alpha.  MiniCOPY is new,iG > >> and will work on all disks (not just those on CI/DSSI controllers)p   What is MiniCOPY?"  L > > Note that I am talking about minimerge for host-based voolume shadowing  > > (HBVS).;  I > What Mike is referring to as existing for some time is CONTROLLER basednE > minimerge.  That is for disks connected to HSC/HSD/HSJ controllers.   , Right, but I said HBVS in the original post.  I > Host-based Minimerge (HBMM) will be for all disks, although the initialgJ > implementation likely will not allow disks eligible for controller-based! > minimerge to be used with HBMM.<   OK.y  I > Since we are using the Write Bitmap stuff to do HBMM, HBMM is Alpha andfJ > IA64 only.  VAX use of minicopy is limited to the ability to have writesF > tracked -- VAXes are not allowed perform minicopy recovery.  This isJ > because VAXes are not allowed to have master bitmaps, and the ability toD > maintain master bitmaps is a requirement for HBMM.  It is almost aD > certainty that VAXes will not ever have the capability to maintain > master bitmaps.    A few questions:  F Is there a technical reason why the stuff can't work on VAX, or is it ) just lack of demand, lack of funding etc?p  I What is the distinction between minimerge and minicopy and which will be p! available as listed below?  Both?&  F Based on what you said, a shadow set with all members on VAX won't be I able to use this functionality.  What about one with ONE member on ALPHA nH and the other(s) on VAX?  I recently moved my biggest shadow set to two I VAX nodes, rather than a VAX and an ALPHA, to avoid copies when I reboot nI the ALPHA (which happens more often than with the VAXen, since there are &I more patches and more frequent OS upgrades for ALPHA), but it has slowed eF things down a bit (the SCSI speed on the VAX is not as fast as on the  ALPHA).;  D > A limited external field test for HBMM for V7.3-1 is underway now. > P > A more broad external field test for HBMM for V7.3-2 should start in late May,% > and will be available in Q4 CY2004.s > > > HBMM will be integrated with OpenVMS V8.2 for Alpha and IA64  I Does that mean that for 7.3-1 or 7.3-2 one will have to install a patch, p  or will it be an additional kit?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2004 13:08:56 -0500&+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young);) Subject: Re: simple question on shadowing;3 Message-ID: <p4zpWdUukkxT@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  w In article <c4upci$cgc$5@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  >  > What is MiniCOPY?t >   ; http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/5423/5423pro_009.html   * Using Minicopy for Backing Up Data (Alpha)  J This chapter describes the minicopy feature of Compaq Volume Shadowing forD OpenVMS introduced in OpenVMS Version 7.3. Minicopy and its enablingJ technology, write bitmaps, are fully implemented on OpenVMS Alpha systems.M OpenVMS VAX nodes can write to shadow sets that use this feature but they can K neither create master write bitmaps nor manage them with DCL commands. In arO mixed-architecture OpenVMS Cluster system, only one Alpha system is required int order to use minicopy. 6  K The primary purpose of minicopy is to shorten the time it takes to return a-O shadow set member to the shadow set. The shadow set member is typically removed L for the purpose of backing up the data and is then returned to membership in the shadow set.    7.1 What Is Minicopy?tO A minicopy operation is a streamlined copy operation. Minicopy ensures that thenM data on a shadow set member, when returned to the shadow set, is identical tos the data in the shadow set.   M A write bitmap tracks writes to a shadow set and is used to direct a minicopy B operation when a shadow set member is returned to the shadow set.   H Prior to the removal of a shadow set member, application writes are sentO directly to the shadow set (also known as the virtual unit), as shown in Figuret 7-1.    	 	Example:t   $ !  $ ! Is Minicopy available? $ !u) $       show device/bitmap sys$sysdevice:0% $       if $status .eqs. "%X00038240"i $       then  $               MiniCopy_Q == ""+ $               Performing_MiniCopy == "No"w $       else9 $               MiniCopy_Q == "/POLICY=MINICOPY=OPTIONAL"j, $               Performing_MiniCopy == "Yes"
 $       endifs   ....  7 $       DISMOUNT/CLUSTER/NOUNLOAD 'MiniCopy_Q' 'Member'u   ...   N $       mount/system 'Shadowset' /shadow=('Target') 'MiniCopy_Q' 'TargetLabel'   				Robs   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:39:31 GMTw/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)>) Subject: Re: simple question on shadowingn- Message-ID: <NXbLDLb85i$K@cuebid.zko.dec.com>y  2 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:4 > brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: 5 >> (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:s >> > (Michael Moroney) writes: g >> >> 1 >> >> >  Or will there be HBVS minimerge for VAX?s >> >> L >> >> Get the terminology right.  MiniMERGE has existed for years, exists onL >> >> VAX and in fact I think it may date to before Alpha.  MiniCOPY is new,H >> >> and will work on all disks (not just those on CI/DSSI controllers) >  > What is MiniCOPY?1E 	It's for use when a member is temporarily removed from a shadow set.sJ Writes to the other member(s) are tracked, so that when the removed member@ is returned, only those blocks modified will be copied, avoiding a full copy operation.  M >> > Note that I am talking about minimerge for host-based voolume shadowing H >> > (HBVS). > J >> What Mike is referring to as existing for some time is CONTROLLER basedF >> minimerge.  That is for disks connected to HSC/HSD/HSJ controllers. > . > Right, but I said HBVS in the original post.H 	Yes, but HBVS stands for Host-Based Volume Shadowing.  In that context,E the "host-based" part is used to distinguish it from the old, Phase IyG controller-based Volume Shadowing.  HBVS uses DSA devices; Phase I usedlK DUS devices.  Phase I shadowing has not been supported since V6.1, I think. H Phase II shadowing has had controller-based minimerge since V5.4 or V5.5  J >> Since we are using the Write Bitmap stuff to do HBMM, HBMM is Alpha andK >> IA64 only.  VAX use of minicopy is limited to the ability to have writestG >> tracked -- VAXes are not allowed perform minicopy recovery.  This istK >> because VAXes are not allowed to have master bitmaps, and the ability totE >> maintain master bitmaps is a requirement for HBMM.  It is almost a)E >> certainty that VAXes will not ever have the capability to maintainr >> master bitmaps. i >  > A few questions: > H > Is there a technical reason why the stuff can't work on VAX, or is it + > just lack of demand, lack of funding etc?n= 	It is certainly technically possible, but we have a definitenJ shortage of labour with respect to the things we need to do, and decisions% have to be made about what not to do.l  K > What is the distinction between minimerge and minicopy and which will be t# > available as listed below?  Both? 5 	Minicopy has been around since OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 - and OpenVMS VAX V7.3  H > Based on what you said, a shadow set with all members on VAX won't be K > able to use this functionality.  What about one with ONE member on ALPHA  J > and the other(s) on VAX?  I recently moved my biggest shadow set to two K > VAX nodes, rather than a VAX and an ALPHA, to avoid copies when I reboot _K > the ALPHA (which happens more often than with the VAXen, since there are aK > more patches and more frequent OS upgrades for ALPHA), but it has slowed >H > things down a bit (the SCSI speed on the VAX is not as fast as on the 	 > ALPHA)..C 	All mounted members must be on an Alpha (or I64).  Note that disksuE on a VAX that are not mounted CAN be served to an HBMM-capable systemiL and use HBMM.  In that case, the VAX is simply acting as an MSCP controller.  E >> A limited external field test for HBMM for V7.3-1 is underway now.r >> fQ >> A more broad external field test for HBMM for V7.3-2 should start in late May,t& >> and will be available in Q4 CY2004. >> .? >> HBMM will be integrated with OpenVMS V8.2 for Alpha and IA64s > K > Does that mean that for 7.3-1 or 7.3-2 one will have to install a patch,  " > or will it be an additional kit?F 	There will be a patch kit for V7.3-2.  Given that V7.3-1 is scheduledI to go off maintenance at the end of this calendar year, there will not be:K a generally-available kit for HBMM for V7.3-1.  Those few customers who are G field-testing HBMM for V7.3-1 will be the only ones to get a productiony version of HBMM for V7.3-1   --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:36:20 GMT / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) ) Subject: Re: simple question on shadowingy- Message-ID: <IBMxcjUzOgaB@cuebid.zko.dec.com>h  2 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:4 > brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: 5 >> (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:n >> > (Michael Moroney) writes: m >> >> 1 >> >> >  Or will there be HBVS minimerge for VAX?a >> >> L >> >> Get the terminology right.  MiniMERGE has existed for years, exists onL >> >> VAX and in fact I think it may date to before Alpha.  MiniCOPY is new,H >> >> and will work on all disks (not just those on CI/DSSI controllers) >  > What is MiniCOPY?nE 	It's for use when a member is temporarily removed from a shadow set.@J Writes to the other member(s) are tracked, so that when the removed member@ is returned, only those blocks modified will be copied, avoiding a full copy operation.  M >> > Note that I am talking about minimerge for host-based voolume shadowing e >> > (HBVS). > J >> What Mike is referring to as existing for some time is CONTROLLER basedF >> minimerge.  That is for disks connected to HSC/HSD/HSJ controllers. > . > Right, but I said HBVS in the original post.H 	Yes, but HBVS stands for Host-Based Volume Shadowing.  In that context,E the "host-based" part is used to distinguish it from the old, Phase I>G controller-based Volume Shadowing.  HBVS uses DSA devices; Phase I used K DUS devices.  Phase I shadowing has not been supported since V6.1, I think. H Phase II shadowing has had controller-based minimerge since V5.4 or V5.5  J >> Since we are using the Write Bitmap stuff to do HBMM, HBMM is Alpha andK >> IA64 only.  VAX use of minicopy is limited to the ability to have writes G >> tracked -- VAXes are not allowed perform minicopy recovery.  This is K >> because VAXes are not allowed to have master bitmaps, and the ability toyE >> maintain master bitmaps is a requirement for HBMM.  It is almost aoE >> certainty that VAXes will not ever have the capability to maintains >> master bitmaps.   >  > A few questions: > H > Is there a technical reason why the stuff can't work on VAX, or is it + > just lack of demand, lack of funding etc?H= 	It is certainly technically possible, but we have a definitemJ shortage of labour with respect to the things we need to do, and decisions% have to be made about what not to do.   K > What is the distinction between minimerge and minicopy and which will be t# > available as listed below?  Both?B5 	Minicopy has been around since OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2   and OpenVMS VAX V7.3  H > Based on what you said, a shadow set with all members on VAX won't be K > able to use this functionality.  What about one with ONE member on ALPHA cJ > and the other(s) on VAX?  I recently moved my biggest shadow set to two K > VAX nodes, rather than a VAX and an ALPHA, to avoid copies when I reboot jK > the ALPHA (which happens more often than with the VAXen, since there are gK > more patches and more frequent OS upgrades for ALPHA), but it has slowed hH > things down a bit (the SCSI speed on the VAX is not as fast as on the 	 > ALPHA).'C 	All mounted members must be on an Alpha (or I64).  Note that diskstE on a VAX that are not mounted CAN be served to an HBMM-capable systemrL and use HBMM.  In that case, the VAX is simply acting as an MSCP controller.  E >> A limited external field test for HBMM for V7.3-1 is underway now.l >> hQ >> A more broad external field test for HBMM for V7.3-2 should start in late May, & >> and will be available in Q4 CY2004. >> m? >> HBMM will be integrated with OpenVMS V8.2 for Alpha and IA64  > K > Does that mean that for 7.3-1 or 7.3-2 one will have to install a patch, i" > or will it be an additional kit?F 	There will be a patch kit for V7.3-2.  Given that V7.3-1 is scheduledI to go off maintenance at the end of this calendar year, there will not berK a generally-available kit for HBMM for V7.3-1.  Those few customers who areSG field-testing HBMM for V7.3-1 will be the only ones to get a productione version of HBMM for V7.3-1   -- t  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:58:24 +0100rO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>n/ Subject: Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?-0 Message-ID: <c4ud21$36j$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Andrew Harrison wrote: >  >>Kenneth Farmer wrote:f >>  >>>Lets get Andrew fired up!  :) >>>i >>>A Total Eclipse of the Sun?D >>>http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/04/03/8616166 >>>a >>>Ken >>>t >>4 >>Another well researched and well balanced article. >> >  > M > Sarcasm aside, I would be interested in hearing what is factually incorrect C > in the article.  It seems rather straight forward and tame to me.0 >   < Well firstly Sun hasn't lost 4.4 billion dollars in the last= 3 years unless you conclude that write downs are cash losses.   9 Secondly what Sun will or won't lose this quarter is onlyr; speculation at this point, we havn't published our results.:  = Finally you get to the tone of the article which is obviously = intended to slam Sun, all you have to do it read the headings " for each section to work that out.  B In the mean time the industrial chemicals division of HP continues= to fund the PC and EBU divisions of HP while the EBU divisionA; is in iminent danger of losing the platform on which it hasrB bet its business because of customer and industry indifference andA a major change of strategy by its key partner. Plus the fact that>= HP's other major partner has just inked a deal with Sun whichh> doesn't require Sun to license technology from them, but which> does give Sun access to IP that we need to improve our desktop- and server offerings (which compete with HP).e  ? Can anyone work out why the article was written to attack Sun ?g  @ Oddly or perhaps not the WSJ, Forrester etc etc cast a much more? favourable light on the deal but then they arn't quite as close  to HP as Terry.u > 2 >>The month hasn't started off well for you has it2 >>Ken, 2 posts neither worth the bits used to send >>them.  >>2 >>Quite why you need to keep attempting to put the >>boot in on Sun >  > N > Mmm - maybe because it seems to be something you spend a lot of time doing -K > putting it into HP/VMS or whatever.  Sad really, because when you are notVC > doing it, you usually have intelligent and insightful commentary.a >   E If you can find a single example of the latter (VMS) in my posts then G please feal free to publish it, if you don't your silence will be proofe) that there is no substance to your claim.y   > ! >>I don't know though many peopler2 >>would suspect that it diverts attention from the2 >>obvious woes of HP unless you consider the EBU's+ >>processor/systems strategy to be tip top.e >> >>Do you ????? >> >  >  > I do not think many of us do.m >   @ Remember I only got involved in posting to this group because of= Rob's vitriolic attacks on Sun someting he later admitted was>? simply a diversionary tactic to take peoples minds off the woesr of VMS's owner du jour.>   Regardso Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 14:59:33 +0100eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> / Subject: Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun? 0 Message-ID: <c4ud45$36j$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:n > In article <c4s18q$81q$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes: >  >>Kenneth Farmer wrote:, >>  >>>Lets get Andrew fired up!  :) >>>t >>>A Total Eclipse of the Sun?D >>>http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/04/03/8616166 >>>t >  > D >    Which, of course, says about the same thing The Washington Post >    just said about Sun.s >   C Well except that the WSJ's view of the deal is rather more balancedf than Terrys.   Regardsk Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:03:26 GMT-9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>0/ Subject: Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun? 1 Message-ID: <2Fzcc.2370$LH1.164@news.cpqcorp.net>p  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>i; wrote in message news:c4ud21$36j$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...o > > > Well firstly Sun hasn't lost 4.4 billion dollars in the last? > 3 years unless you conclude that write downs are cash losses.  >g  K Well, I guess they did get you fired up.  You can play games with semantics K to claim that the write downs "don't count" - but even if you eliminate themL accounting changes - Sun hasn't been profitable in pretty much three years -. the closest you came was a break-even quarter.  L Just as I'm sure you will *count* the windfall from the settlment with MS as5 giving you a profitable quarter when the $$$ roll in.n  ; > Secondly what Sun will or won't lose this quarter is only5= > speculation at this point, we havn't published our results.e >s  L Yes, but it's speculation on Sun's guidance.  They are the ones who providedD guidance that the quarterly loss would exceed $700 million USD.  TheL speculation at this point is really how much in excess (the estimates appear@ to have about a $100 million USD range -- $700 to $800 million).  ? > Finally you get to the tone of the article which is obviously"? > intended to slam Sun, all you have to do it read the headingsh$ > for each section to work that out. >(  L Actually, the first half of the article was the positive spin that the truceJ with MS will provide a cash infusion, and have potential big advantages to both companies.D  D > In the mean time the industrial chemicals division of HP continues? > to fund the PC and EBU divisions of HP while the EBU division = > is in iminent danger of losing the platform on which it hassD > bet its business because of customer and industry indifference and0 > a major change of strategy by its key partner.  H Now, was that intended as anything *but* a slam?  Talk about FUD.  Let'sF change the subject and go on the attack and maybe turn the thread intoI another IPF/Intel/HP == bad.  Both HP and Intel remain committed to IPF -gK and have both publicly said so, and given the reasons why they believe thate) x84-64 is a bridge, but not the solution.i   > Plus the fact that? > HP's other major partner has just inked a deal with Sun whichv@ > doesn't require Sun to license technology from them, but which@ > does give Sun access to IP that we need to improve our desktop/ > and server offerings (which compete with HP).h >   K Not quite sure where the danger here is.  That .NET will communicate betterrE with Java?  Or that Sun will become a Windows reseller?  I think it'ssL important that Sun be able to have the Linux/Solaris/Windows common platformH story that they don't have with Sparc - and it will reduce our advantageI (since we do have that story with HP-UX/Linux/Windows/VMS on IPF) - but I?L don't see it overcomming other problems - and it will be a while before yourI story will be true - and even longer before it's true in anything but the- low-end.  A > Can anyone work out why the article was written to attack Sun ?S >h  H Hmmm.  Balanced vs Attack.  Not sure it was an attack.  But sure, let me: speculate that in terms of Balance, Terry isn't a Sun fan.  B > Oddly or perhaps not the WSJ, Forrester etc etc cast a much moreA > favourable light on the deal but then they arn't quite as close  > to HP as Terry.l  L I think Terry did highlight the advantages of the surrender... I mean truce.   > B > Remember I only got involved in posting to this group because of? > Rob's vitriolic attacks on Sun someting he later admitted wasoA > simply a diversionary tactic to take peoples minds off the woes  > of VMS's owner du jour.c >   I This justification is getting kind of old.  As far as I can tell, and youeK haven't challenged my assertion - this is the *only* newsgroup that you arerI active in.  I hope that given the amount of time you spend here trying touK spread FUD is viewed as a valuable contribution to Sun.  I'm not aware of auJ single report of someone who has switched to Sun from OpenVMS based on (orH in part because of) your activity here.  Nor do I know of anyone who has0 switched to VMS from Sun because of Rob's posts.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 16:43:47 +01000O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>l/ Subject: Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?i0 Message-ID: <c4uj7j$5dg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.= com>= > wrote in message news:c4ud21$36j$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...o >=20> >>Well firstly Sun hasn't lost 4.4 billion dollars in the last? >>3 years unless you conclude that write downs are cash losses.  >> >=20 >=20J > Well, I guess they did get you fired up.  You can play games with seman= ticsJ > to claim that the write downs "don't count" - but even if you eliminate=  theJ > accounting changes - Sun hasn't been profitable in pretty much three ye= ars -t0 > the closest you came was a break-even quarter. >=20J > Just as I'm sure you will *count* the windfall from the settlment with = MS as 7 > giving you a profitable quarter when the $$$ roll in.o >=20  C Just as HP can by pushing their write downs into the Merger "fund".r  ? Were they merger related or would they have happened anyway dues: to changes in the business environment, who knows, want to add them to your numbers ?????   >=20; >>Secondly what Sun will or won't lose this quarter is onlye= >>speculation at this point, we havn't published our results.  >> >=20 >=20J > Yes, but it's speculation on Sun's guidance.  They are the ones who pro= videdeF > guidance that the quarterly loss would exceed $700 million USD.  TheJ > speculation at this point is really how much in excess (the estimates a= ppeardB > to have about a $100 million USD range -- $700 to $800 million). >=20  9 Sure but how much of that is a P&L loss and how much is a<8 write down (do you know and do you know the difference).   >=20? >>Finally you get to the tone of the article which is obviouslye? >>intended to slam Sun, all you have to do it read the headingsr$ >>for each section to work that out. >> >=20 >=20J > Actually, the first half of the article was the positive spin that the = truceuJ > with MS will provide a cash infusion, and have potential big advantages=  tol > both companies.h >=20  B Only if you read it from the curious parallel universe that is HP. >=20D >>In the mean time the industrial chemicals division of HP continues? >>to fund the PC and EBU divisions of HP while the EBU divisionr= >>is in iminent danger of losing the platform on which it hasaD >>bet its business because of customer and industry indifference and0 >>a major change of strategy by its key partner. >=20 >=20J > Now, was that intended as anything *but* a slam?  Talk about FUD.  Let'= soH > change the subject and go on the attack and maybe turn the thread intoJ > another IPF/Intel/HP =3D=3D bad.  Both HP and Intel remain committed to=  IPF -J > and have both publicly said so, and given the reasons why they believe = that+ > x84-64 is a bridge, but not the solution.  >=20  7 You seem to have entirely missed the point which is why-7 does a editorial that is ostensibly HP related spend sod7 much time slamming Sun, this isn't the first time is ito$ in fact its a steady drip drip drip.  4 Of course when you realise that there are people who1 routinely FUD Sun to deflect attention from VMS's 5 owner du Jour and who are prepared to admit this thene. you may suspect a motive rather different than& one of simply informing the HP masses.   >=20 >>Plus the fact that? >>HP's other major partner has just inked a deal with Sun which @ >>doesn't require Sun to license technology from them, but which@ >>does give Sun access to IP that we need to improve our desktop/ >>and server offerings (which compete with HP).n >> >=20 >=20J > Not quite sure where the danger here is.  That .NET will communicate be= tterG > with Java?  Or that Sun will become a Windows reseller?  I think it's J > important that Sun be able to have the Linux/Solaris/Windows common pla= tformoJ > story that they don't have with Sparc - and it will reduce our advantag= etJ > (since we do have that story with HP-UX/Linux/Windows/VMS on IPF) - but=  IJ > don't see it overcomming other problems - and it will be a while before=  youriJ > story will be true - and even longer before it's true in anything but t= he
 > low-end. >=20  3 If you arn't quite sure what the danger is then youa really need to get out more.   >=20A >>Can anyone work out why the article was written to attack Sun ?n >> >=20 >=20J > Hmmm.  Balanced vs Attack.  Not sure it was an attack.  But sure, let m= e < > speculate that in terms of Balance, Terry isn't a Sun fan. >=20  ; Read the headine of each paragraph and then come back to me    "A Total Eclipse of the Sun?"+! "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly"i "$2B USD Worth of Sun-Shine" "The Lurid Technical Details"r "And Now the Bad News" "An Ironclad Layoff Guarante"  "A Titanic Turnaround Artist?"  2 Sound like a positive or balanced article to you ?   Don't make me laugh.  / The article is also littered with phrases like:t   "imminent decimation"i "Mcnealy crowed" "Executives Bolted" A "Perhaps the fine art of firing people will reflect a new core=20h competency at Sun"J "There=92s a lot of quid=97and an equal amount of pro quo=97in this deal,= =20tE which arguably should have been announced a day earlier than 2 April"n  > In theory Terry is neutral or he tries to claim to be so being- a Sun fan or not is hardly relevant or is it.a    B >>Oddly or perhaps not the WSJ, Forrester etc etc cast a much moreA >>favourable light on the deal but then they arn't quite as close  >>to HP as Terry.m >=20 >=20J > I think Terry did highlight the advantages of the surrender... I mean t= ruce.' >=20  9 Who surrendered to who though, answers on a post card and_7 before you reply think about what Sun has been tring toi" get MS to do for the last 3 years.   >=20B >>Remember I only got involved in posting to this group because of? >>Rob's vitriolic attacks on Sun someting he later admitted wastA >>simply a diversionary tactic to take peoples minds off the woese >>of VMS's owner du jour.  >> >=20 >=20J > This justification is getting kind of old.  As far as I can tell, and y= ouJ > haven't challenged my assertion - this is the *only* newsgroup that you=  areJ > active in.  I hope that given the amount of time you spend here trying = toJ > spread FUD is viewed as a valuable contribution to Sun.  I'm not aware = of aJ > single report of someone who has switched to Sun from OpenVMS based on = (orrJ > in part because of) your activity here.  Nor do I know of anyone who ha= s 2 > switched to VMS from Sun because of Rob's posts. >=20  < I am not sure what your point is, is it that is is perfectly= ok for people to publish what turns out to be dissinformationi@ about a competitor because they have done so in a newsgroup that is focused on another vendor.t  8 Or is it that you object to me responding because I know3 all about the vendor being FUDDED but not about theo< vendor in whose forum the dissinformation are being spread ?  / I would be interested in your thoughts on this.r  5 Perhaps a more robust response from other people somelA of who may have realised that they were being fed dissinforamtions8 for a reason would have curtailed my responses but sadly for you its too late now.m  ; I have offered choiristers a way out but that would involvea= them ceasing to FUD Sun something that they seem congenitallyl
 unable to do.m   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:17:03 GMTn9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> / Subject: Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?h2 Message-ID: <jCBcc.2385$yQ1.1989@news.cpqcorp.net>  B Ah, Andy.  I read the words and I hear a shrill note in the voice.  I Deflect, defend, twist, and shout.  If you don't have facts, try sarcasm.rJ If the facts are against you, change the question.  Or just get right down to personal attacks.  C But it's OK, we sympathize with you - it must be stressful for you.r  = >I am not sure what your point is, is it that is is perfectly0> >ok for people to publish what turns out to be dissinformationA >about a competitor because they have done so in a newsgroup thatt >is focused on another vendor. >t9 >Or is it that you object to me responding because I know 4 >all about the vendor being FUDDED but not about the= >vendor in whose forum the dissinformation are being spread ?c >i0 >I would be interested in your thoughts on this. >u  K My thoughts are that you effectively waste your time, my time, and the timepH of most of the people reading these tit-for-tats that you have.  PerhapsD that time might be better spent beating the bushes for customers, orL answering technical questions for Sun users in the appropriate forum (as you claim to be technical).g  D Rob, as far as I know, doesn't work for HP.  I have no idea what hisI activities are in other forums - including Sun forums - because I have nolJ interest in being a HP troll in a Sun forum - I wouldn't be welcome there,I as you are in general not welcome here.  It doesn't appear that *you* are L active in any Sun forums - so how Rob even came to your attention is hard to fathom.1  H You know little about VMS or HP, but you set youself up as the expert onK things.  It's not really clear that you are a Sun expert beyond having lots K of marketing information apparently at your fingertips.  When you have been C pinned down in the past on technical questions/issues - you quickly  dissapear from the discussion.  K So besides FUD, what exact purpose do you serve here?  Is there some actualsH value returned for your investment of time?  Isn't there more profitableK things you could do if it's on Sun's nickle?  Or couldn't you go drive yourJ2 (inferior ;-) sports car if it's on your own time?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:20:11 +0200  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>/ Subject: Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?e- Message-ID: <c4vdv9$2krr$1@news.cybercity.dk>B  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:& >> "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"; >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in messagee- >> news:c4ud21$36j$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  >>@ >>> Well firstly Sun hasn't lost 4.4 billion dollars in the lastA >>> 3 years unless you conclude that write downs are cash losses.t >>>m >> >>D >> Well, I guess they did get you fired up.  You can play games withF >> semantics to claim that the write downs "don't count" - but even ifG >> you eliminate the accounting changes - Sun hasn't been profitable inwB >> pretty much three years - the closest you came was a break-even >> quarter.M >>D >> Just as I'm sure you will *count* the windfall from the settlmentC >> with MS as giving you a profitable quarter when the $$$ roll in.  >> >eE > Just as HP can by pushing their write downs into the Merger "fund".) >uA > Were they merger related or would they have happened anyway due@< > to changes in the business environment, who knows, want to  > add them to your numbers ????? >o >>= >>> Secondly what Sun will or won't lose this quarter is only:? >>> speculation at this point, we havn't published our results.e >>>  >> >>F >> Yes, but it's speculation on Sun's guidance.  They are the ones whoF >> provided guidance that the quarterly loss would exceed $700 millionC >> USD.  The speculation at this point is really how much in excessjG >> (the estimates appear to have about a $100 million USD range -- $700  >> to $800 million). >> >f; > Sure but how much of that is a P&L loss and how much is a : > write down (do you know and do you know the difference). >   K Capitalising expenses and then writing them down in another period is smoke,0 and mirrors for the uninitiated.  Quack, quack..   >>A >>> Finally you get to the tone of the article which is obviouslylA >>> intended to slam Sun, all you have to do it read the headingsd& >>> for each section to work that out. >>>  >> >>E >> Actually, the first half of the article was the positive spin that E >> the truce with MS will provide a cash infusion, and have potentials$ >> big advantages to both companies. >> >mD > Only if you read it from the curious parallel universe that is HP. >>F >>> In the mean time the industrial chemicals division of HP continuesA >>> to fund the PC and EBU divisions of HP while the EBU divisionv? >>> is in iminent danger of losing the platform on which it hasnF >>> bet its business because of customer and industry indifference and2 >>> a major change of strategy by its key partner. >>  K I would call this "putting it into HP/VMS or whatever".  Just because it isl5 true, does not mean you are not putting the boot in !    >>D >> Now, was that intended as anything *but* a slam?  Talk about FUD.C >> Let's change the subject and go on the attack and maybe turn the?E >> thread into another IPF/Intel/HP == bad.  Both HP and Intel remainnC >> committed to IPF - and have both publicly said so, and given theh@ >> reasons why they believe that x84-64 is a bridge, but not the >> solution. >> >e9 > You seem to have entirely missed the point which is why 9 > does a editorial that is ostensibly HP related spend so 9 > much time slamming Sun, this isn't the first time is it.& > in fact its a steady drip drip drip. >t6 > Of course when you realise that there are people who3 > routinely FUD Sun to deflect attention from VMS's 7 > owner du Jour and who are prepared to admit this thenA0 > you may suspect a motive rather different than( > one of simply informing the HP masses. >  >> >>> Plus the fact thatA >>> HP's other major partner has just inked a deal with Sun which B >>> doesn't require Sun to license technology from them, but whichB >>> does give Sun access to IP that we need to improve our desktop1 >>> and server offerings (which compete with HP).r >>>t >> >>G >> Not quite sure where the danger here is.  That .NET will communicate D >> better with Java?  Or that Sun will become a Windows reseller?  I4 >> think it's important that Sun be able to have theC >> Linux/Solaris/Windows common platform story that they don't haveoG >> with Sparc - and it will reduce our advantage (since we do have thatbB >> story with HP-UX/Linux/Windows/VMS on IPF) - but I don't see itB >> overcomming other problems - and it will be a while before yourD >> story will be true - and even longer before it's true in anything >> but the low-end.a >> > 5 > If you arn't quite sure what the danger is then you  > really need to get out more. >  >>C >>> Can anyone work out why the article was written to attack Sun ?i >>>  >> >>D >> Hmmm.  Balanced vs Attack.  Not sure it was an attack.  But sure,D >> let me speculate that in terms of Balance, Terry isn't a Sun fan. >> >t= > Read the headine of each paragraph and then come back to mey >  > "A Total Eclipse of the Sun?"i# > "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly"t > "$2B USD Worth of Sun-Shine" > "The Lurid Technical Details"w > "And Now the Bad News" > "An Ironclad Layoff Guarante"r  > "A Titanic Turnaround Artist?" >s4 > Sound like a positive or balanced article to you ? >a > Don't make me laugh. >t1 > The article is also littered with phrases like:d >s > "imminent decimation"i > "Mcnealy crowed" > "Executives Bolted"l@ > "Perhaps the fine art of firing people will reflect a new core > competency at Sun"E > "Theres a lot of quidand an equal amount of pro quoin this deal, G > which arguably should have been announced a day earlier than 2 April"i >y@ > In theory Terry is neutral or he tries to claim to be so being/ > a Sun fan or not is hardly relevant or is it.P >P >ND >>> Oddly or perhaps not the WSJ, Forrester etc etc cast a much moreC >>> favourable light on the deal but then they arn't quite as close. >>> to HP as Terry.y >> >>C >> I think Terry did highlight the advantages of the surrender... I  >> mean truce. >> >-; > Who surrendered to who though, answers on a post card andc9 > before you reply think about what Sun has been tring tos$ > get MS to do for the last 3 years. >5 >>D >>> Remember I only got involved in posting to this group because ofA >>> Rob's vitriolic attacks on Sun someting he later admitted waslC >>> simply a diversionary tactic to take peoples minds off the woes) >>> of VMS's owner du jour.O >>>l >> >>D >> This justification is getting kind of old.  As far as I can tell,? >> and you haven't challenged my assertion - this is the *only* E >> newsgroup that you are active in.  I hope that given the amount ofwC >> time you spend here trying to spread FUD is viewed as a valuableiD >> contribution to Sun.  I'm not aware of a single report of someoneD >> who has switched to Sun from OpenVMS based on (or in part becauseG >> of) your activity here.  Nor do I know of anyone who has switched toi' >> VMS from Sun because of Rob's posts.> >> > > > I am not sure what your point is, is it that is is perfectly? > ok for people to publish what turns out to be dissinformationfB > about a competitor because they have done so in a newsgroup that > is focused on another vendor.r > : > Or is it that you object to me responding because I know5 > all about the vendor being FUDDED but not about the > > vendor in whose forum the dissinformation are being spread ? >o1 > I would be interested in your thoughts on this.B >u7 > Perhaps a more robust response from other people somedC > of who may have realised that they were being fed dissinforamtiong: > for a reason would have curtailed my responses but sadly > for you its too late now.  >m= > I have offered choiristers a way out but that would involveo? > them ceasing to FUD Sun something that they seem congenitally- > unable to do.l >e	 > Regardsi > Andrew Harrisonh  	 Dr. Dweebc  I ps: Andrew, stop coming after me - I am probably the only person who everi1 had anything nice to say about you on this board.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:46:22 GMTo3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)n7 Subject: Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE - does't survive reboots 1 Message-ID: <Owycc.2365$mE1.514@news.cpqcorp.net>   d In article <C8lcc.1522$ZT1.394@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes:J >I've been doing Google searches and looking over the FAQ and I think I'm J >either outright failing to find the obvious or else something strange is 
 >going on. > K >I just finished setting up an AlphaServer DS10L as a hobbyist system with pK >OpenVMS Alpha v7.3-1.  Shortly after a reboot, I'm getting OPCOM messages dG >indicating that the logical name SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE is not defined. ...y  C If you have NET$DISABLE_DTSS defined and are NOT using DECnet Plus,?) remove the definition of NET$ISABLE_DTSS.   ? If you have NET$DISABLE_DTSS defined and ARE using DECnet Plus,w% you need to install VMS731_TDF-V0200.e  ; If this doesn't fix the problem, then it is something else.t  E NOTE to V7.3-2 users -- VMS731_TDF-V0200 did not make it into V7.3-2.n5 "I will be in the next TDF or update kit for V7.3-2."    -- hJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:17:42 GMTe3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 7 Subject: Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE - does't survive rebootsl2 Message-ID: <WCBcc.2387$AQ1.1836@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <V2ChEdxDi4Vv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: h >In article <Owycc.2365$mE1.514@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:g >> In article <C8lcc.1522$ZT1.394@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes: L >>>I've been doing Google searches and looking over the FAQ and I think I'm L >>>either outright failing to find the obvious or else something strange is  >>>going on. >>>3M >>>I just finished setting up an AlphaServer DS10L as a hobbyist system with .M >>>OpenVMS Alpha v7.3-1.  Shortly after a reboot, I'm getting OPCOM messages 2I >>>indicating that the logical name SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE is not defined. ...l >> sF >> If you have NET$DISABLE_DTSS defined and are NOT using DECnet Plus,, >> remove the definition of NET$ISABLE_DTSS. >>  B >> If you have NET$DISABLE_DTSS defined and ARE using DECnet Plus,( >> you need to install VMS731_TDF-V0200. >> i> >> If this doesn't fix the problem, then it is something else. >> mH >> NOTE to V7.3-2 users -- VMS731_TDF-V0200 did not make it into V7.3-2.8 >> "I will be in the next TDF or update kit for V7.3-2." >mI >I think the following from a DECnet Plus system contradicts some of thats >o  >$ show logical NET$DISABLE_DTSS/ >   "NET$DISABLE_DTSS" = "1" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)a >$ show log SYS$TIMEZONE_RULEfJ >   "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "EST5EDT4,M4.1.0/2,M10.5.0/2" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >$ show system/noprocrM >OpenVMS V7.3-2  on node ELIDED   6-APR-2004 10:16:47.07  Uptime  32 17:49:41t >$ show network  >tJ >Product:  DECNET        Node:  ELIDED               Address(es):  64.1025M >Product:  TCP/IP        Node:  ELIDED.domain.tld Address(es):  999.999.999.1s >01>   Larry --  G I believe taht what you show is consistent with the following scenario:I  =     UTC$TIME_SETUP was run on a V7.3-1 system with the patch B      and not re-run under V7.3-2.   Which is a way of saying, @ "If you don't have this problem, don't worry about it."  <smile>   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:13:03 GMTX3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)i7 Subject: Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE - does't survive rebootsy1 Message-ID: <jbEcc.2406$512.388@news.cpqcorp.net>w  h In article <WCBcc.2387$AQ1.1836@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:d >In article <V2ChEdxDi4Vv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:i >>In article <Owycc.2365$mE1.514@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes: h >>> In article <C8lcc.1522$ZT1.394@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes:M >>>>I've been doing Google searches and looking over the FAQ and I think I'm aM >>>>either outright failing to find the obvious or else something strange is e
 >>>>going on.y >>>>N >>>>I just finished setting up an AlphaServer DS10L as a hobbyist system with N >>>>OpenVMS Alpha v7.3-1.  Shortly after a reboot, I'm getting OPCOM messages J >>>>indicating that the logical name SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE is not defined. ... >>> G >>> If you have NET$DISABLE_DTSS defined and are NOT using DECnet Plus, - >>> remove the definition of NET$ISABLE_DTSS.  >>> C >>> If you have NET$DISABLE_DTSS defined and ARE using DECnet Plus, ) >>> you need to install VMS731_TDF-V0200.w >>> ? >>> If this doesn't fix the problem, then it is something else.p >>> I >>> NOTE to V7.3-2 users -- VMS731_TDF-V0200 did not make it into V7.3-2.e9 >>> "I will be in the next TDF or update kit for V7.3-2."m >>J >>I think the following from a DECnet Plus system contradicts some of that >>! >>$ show logical NET$DISABLE_DTSSs0 >>   "NET$DISABLE_DTSS" = "1" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >>$ show log SYS$TIMEZONE_RULEK >>   "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "EST5EDT4,M4.1.0/2,M10.5.0/2" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)> >>$ show system/noprocN >>OpenVMS V7.3-2  on node ELIDED   6-APR-2004 10:16:47.07  Uptime  32 17:49:41 >>$ show network >>K >>Product:  DECNET        Node:  ELIDED               Address(es):  64.1025 N >>Product:  TCP/IP        Node:  ELIDED.domain.tld Address(es):  999.999.999.1 >>01    G NEW INFORMATION (from sombody who, like you, wishes he'd got the entiret story all at one time.  D It turns OpenVMS V7.3-1 without the patch works correctly w.r.t. theG problem being discussed.  The probem was introduced in VMS731_TDF-V0100 D (patch version one) and fixed in VMS731_TDF-V0200 (patch version 2).     --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 00:25:29 GMT > From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>7 Subject: Re: SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE - does't survive reboots:= Message-ID: <ZTHcc.13621$uu4.6080@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>!   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  i > In article <Owycc.2365$mE1.514@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:> > f >>In article <C8lcc.1522$ZT1.394@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes: >>L >>>I've been doing Google searches and looking over the FAQ and I think I'm L >>>either outright failing to find the obvious or else something strange is  >>>going on. >>> M >>>I just finished setting up an AlphaServer DS10L as a hobbyist system with uM >>>OpenVMS Alpha v7.3-1.  Shortly after a reboot, I'm getting OPCOM messages tI >>>indicating that the logical name SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE is not defined. ...h >>E >>If you have NET$DISABLE_DTSS defined and are NOT using DECnet Plus,g+ >>remove the definition of NET$ISABLE_DTSS.t >>A >>If you have NET$DISABLE_DTSS defined and ARE using DECnet Plus, ' >>you need to install VMS731_TDF-V0200.E >>= >>If this doesn't fix the problem, then it is something else.i >>G >>NOTE to V7.3-2 users -- VMS731_TDF-V0200 did not make it into V7.3-2. 7 >>"I will be in the next TDF or update kit for V7.3-2."t >  > J > I think the following from a DECnet Plus system contradicts some of that > ! > $ show logical NET$DISABLE_DTSS,0 >    "NET$DISABLE_DTSS" = "1" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > $ show log SYS$TIMEZONE_RULEK >    "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "EST5EDT4,M4.1.0/2,M10.5.0/2" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)l > $ show system/noprocN > OpenVMS V7.3-2  on node ELIDED   6-APR-2004 10:16:47.07  Uptime  32 17:49:41 > $ show network > K > Product:  DECNET        Node:  ELIDED               Address(es):  64.1025nN > Product:  TCP/IP        Node:  ELIDED.domain.tld Address(es):  999.999.999.1 > 01 > $h   Larry,  H Some people erroneously place the definition of the NET$DISABLE_DTSS in G someplace other than SYLOGICALS.com.  Not placing it in SYLOGICALS.COM dH will cause the system to not use the SYS$STARTUP:TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM to H not be executed.  I have some ssytems (being corrected as I write) that . defined this logical in NET$STARTUP.  But the G SYS$COMMON:[SYS$STARTUP]VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM procedure executes y( before anything else, except SYLOGICALS.  B So, you may see that it is defined, but where did you define it???   Michael Austin.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2004 16:40:54 -0700s, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)? Subject: Re: tcp/ip NFS mounted drive problem after time changen= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0404071540.177dac17@posting.google.com>   q "zakaria Yassine" <zakaria@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<lGHcc.24516$wq4.1175005@news20.bellglobal.com>...r > Hi,c@ > In TCP/IP release notes, there is mention of similar problems. >  > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/?           doc/731FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/TCPIP053_REL_NOTES.PDF0   > Zak,    * 3.4.2 NFS Client Problems and Restrictions?  To get proper timestamps, when the system time is changed forf7 daylight savings time (DST), dismount all DNFS devices.oB (The TCP/IP management command SHOW MOUNT should show zero mounted	 devices.)d Then remount the devices.v     Thanks._ Jim>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:33:58 -0700)) From: Jack Fortune <jfortune@uoregon.edu>h/ Subject: Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP48 Message-ID: <98f570dddf72v57j9kahk4spscj7lgfrnu@4ax.com>  7 On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:29:52 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"o- <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote:    >Jack Fortune wrote: >> l; >> On 5 Apr 04 08:14:10 PST, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote:- >> - >> >0 >> >o VMS 7.3+ time keeping correctly configured< >> >  (tdf and timezone as evidenced by SYS$*TIME* logicals)) >> >o system logical NET$DISABLE_DTSS = 1S* >> >o SYSGEN parameter AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV = 1+ >> >o XNTP configured and maintaining clockt >> > >> >It worked for me...s >> sI >> Having spend most of my workday on Friday trying to sort this all out, H >> I got somewhat different advise. We are running VMS 7.3-1, XNTP under< >> Multinet 4.4, and PMDF 6.2 on my Alpha servers. It was my   <snip>   >> y; >> From reading these post though, it seems that by settingoC >> AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV to "1" so that the VMS job controller makes time E >> changes doesn't interfere with running Multinet XNTP to do its ownr* >> thing...is this recommended? Supported? >eD >I made some rather interesting discoveries poking around in the UTC >procedures on VMS.  >iC >If AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set to 1, I would expect JBC to know when to F >kick-off the time change via the SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE logical name. That >should change the other LNMs. >e  D Yes, I believe that if the Job Controller handles the time change itD not only changes the clock but the SYS$TIME* logical names, as well.  H >Word I got (don't recall just how) was that Multinet's XNTP will changeI >the clock, just not predictably. Not sure if it addresses the SYS$*TIME*i4 >LNMs. I'd suspect not, but couldn't say for sure...  F I am nearly certain that Multinet's XNTP will only change the time andF one (or more) MULTINET_* logicals. It doesn't change SYS$TIME* LNM's.   F This gets back to the crux of my original question to the group: is it@ OK (recommended? supported?) to use *BOTH* the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV &C Multinet XNTP methods so that all aspect of "changing the time" arenD handled automatically. One poster claimed that he did just that withE no problems. Others had stated that the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV method should ) be turned off (value = 0), if using XNTP.r   Jack Fortune VMS Systems Managera University of Oregon   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:07:34 -0500a@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>/ Subject: Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP=6 Message-ID: <4072C7B6.1320C719@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Jack Fortune wrote:i > 9 > On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:29:52 -0500, "David J. Dachtera" / > <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote: 	 > >[snip]s > >rF > >I made some rather interesting discoveries poking around in the UTC > >procedures on VMS.g > >mE > >If AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set to 1, I would expect JBC to know when tooH > >kick-off the time change via the SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE logical name. That  > >should change the other LNMs. > >t > F > Yes, I believe that if the Job Controller handles the time change itF > not only changes the clock but the SYS$TIME* logical names, as well. > J > >Word I got (don't recall just how) was that Multinet's XNTP will changeK > >the clock, just not predictably. Not sure if it addresses the SYS$*TIME*d6 > >LNMs. I'd suspect not, but couldn't say for sure... > H > I am nearly certain that Multinet's XNTP will only change the time andG > one (or more) MULTINET_* logicals. It doesn't change SYS$TIME* LNM's.r > H > This gets back to the crux of my original question to the group: is itB > OK (recommended? supported?) to use *BOTH* the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV &E > Multinet XNTP methods so that all aspect of "changing the time" aretF > handled automatically. One poster claimed that he did just that withG > no problems. Others had stated that the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV method shouldr+ > be turned off (value = 0), if using XNTP.e  G Well, application issues aside, it seems to me not real healthy to have F two agents both attempting the same operation (JBC kicking of the time. change because AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV = 1, and XNTP).  ; Again in the absence of in-depth Multinet documentation, my @ recommendation would be to code up some DCL to observe the localE SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE and shutdown XNTP some minutes before the change iso? due to happen by another means, and restart XNTP shortly after.e  G I would expect this to hold true for UCX (TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS), 8 but couldn't say not having hands-on experience with it.   -- i David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:22:36 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>H/ Subject: Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTPn= Message-ID: <gkEcc.12008$tT5.7819@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>n  K "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 0 news:4072C7B6.1320C719@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > Jack Fortune wrote:= > >> [snip] >nJ > > This gets back to the crux of my original question to the group: is itD > > OK (recommended? supported?) to use *BOTH* the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV &G > > Multinet XNTP methods so that all aspect of "changing the time" aresH > > handled automatically. One poster claimed that he did just that withI > > no problems. Others had stated that the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV method should - > > be turned off (value = 0), if using XNTP.l >nI > Well, application issues aside, it seems to me not real healthy to haverH > two agents both attempting the same operation (JBC kicking of the time0 > change because AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV = 1, and XNTP). >e= > Again in the absence of in-depth Multinet documentation, myiB > recommendation would be to code up some DCL to observe the localG > SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE and shutdown XNTP some minutes before the change isnA > due to happen by another means, and restart XNTP shortly after.> >oI > I would expect this to hold true for UCX (TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS),i: > but couldn't say not having hands-on experience with it. >e  G UCX NTP doesn't need to be stopped and/or restarted when doing daylighte savings changes.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 04 12:39:45 PSTl From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.como/ Subject: Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTPh( Message-ID: <SODrGIQVm4WV@cpva.saic.com>  6 In article <4072C7B6.1320C719@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>,C  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:  > Jack Fortune wrote:0 >> i: >> On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:29:52 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"0 >> <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote:
 >> >[snip] >> >G >> >I made some rather interesting discoveries poking around in the UTCs >> >procedures on VMS. >> >F >> >If AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV is set to 1, I would expect JBC to know when toI >> >kick-off the time change via the SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE logical name. Thaty! >> >should change the other LNMs.r >> > >> rG >> Yes, I believe that if the Job Controller handles the time change itnG >> not only changes the clock but the SYS$TIME* logical names, as well.d >> oK >> >Word I got (don't recall just how) was that Multinet's XNTP will change L >> >the clock, just not predictably. Not sure if it addresses the SYS$*TIME*7 >> >LNMs. I'd suspect not, but couldn't say for sure...a >> eI >> I am nearly certain that Multinet's XNTP will only change the time andbH >> one (or more) MULTINET_* logicals. It doesn't change SYS$TIME* LNM's. >> PI >> This gets back to the crux of my original question to the group: is ittC >> OK (recommended? supported?) to use *BOTH* the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV & F >> Multinet XNTP methods so that all aspect of "changing the time" areG >> handled automatically. One poster claimed that he did just that with H >> no problems. Others had stated that the AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV method should, >> be turned off (value = 0), if using XNTP. > I > Well, application issues aside, it seems to me not real healthy to haveeH > two agents both attempting the same operation (JBC kicking of the time0 > change because AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV = 1, and XNTP). >   F Have you ever issued a SET TIME command while (X)NTP was managing yourG clock? What happened? What if you SET TIME to the (approximate) current F time? Why would it be different if JOB_CONTROL changed the time? Isn'tC it still just a call to $SETIME? Wouldn't you just expect (X)NTP ton3 resynch (and find it doesn't have to jump an hour)?u  = > Again in the absence of in-depth Multinet documentation, my=B > recommendation would be to code up some DCL to observe the localG > SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE and shutdown XNTP some minutes before the change isoA > due to happen by another means, and restart XNTP shortly after.n > I > I would expect this to hold true for UCX (TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS),i: > but couldn't say not having hands-on experience with it. >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2004 17:38:41 -0500b4 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)/ Subject: Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTPe3 Message-ID: <SjGPhRFu7XkM@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  p In article <OFA730EE11.E7FD489F-ON85256E6D.0069E54D-85256E6D.006A18A8@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:- > This is a multipart message in MIME format.u$ > --=_alternative 006A18A685256E6D_=. > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > : > mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote on 04/05/2004 12:14:10 PM: > 9 >> In article <407048C9.B158DB9D@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, F >>  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:' >> > This mostly for future Googlers...  >> > e >> > Versions: >> > OpenVMS      V7.3, V7.3-1 >> > Multinet   V4.4 Rev A-X >> > u  : What I've been doing is keying off the "MULTINET_TIMEZONE"@ logical in my programs.  Since MU with XNTP does the time change< right, and all my programs run from the same timezone, I can? easily work from that logical translation.  I realize that thisu@ is a case that won't work for everyone, but if the scope of your; programs work in this limited case, it is an easy solution.l  < V5 of Multinet, now in beta, is supposed to take care of the? "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" logical, and other items, too, from > what I've read.  At that time I will revert back to just using the RTL time routines.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:20:57 +0200 & From: Bernard Giroud <bgiroud@free.fr>) Subject: Re: TS10 Alpha Emulator status ?0' Message-ID: <4073ABD9.FB229287@free.fr>s  ' Any progress with your Alpha emulator ?k  G In a previous message to this group, the following exchange took place:=  > >"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message' >news:b6b1kd017a1@enews1.newsguy.com...mG >> FYI, Tim has already written a PDP-10, a PDP-11, and a VAX emulator.l My@ >> guess is he might be thinking of adding the Alpha to the Mix. >>C >> Charon-VAX might be able to run Ultrix-32, Digital Unix is Alpha  only.a  F >Yeah.  I already am thinking of adding the Alpha to my TS10 emulator. I gotcC >Alpha ARM handbook (3rd edition) from one of the online bookstores=D >(www.bn.com).   I am figuring how to boot firmware but did not know where isG >its location to start.  I know that firmware is at end of 1 MB segmenta like >in PC architecture.  C >Also, I implemented SDL graphics package into my TS10 emulator forw graphicsG >terminal and microcomputers and my ts10 emilator successfully opened an new G >window and displayed TI-99/4A master title screen on it.  Yes, my ts10 5 >emulator now has TI-99/4A emulator (near completed).d  D >About VAX emulator, I fixed some bugs and added TMSCP emulation andC >successfully booted OpenVMS tape on the >>> prompt.  That takes meb severalE >weeks to complete that.  Whew.h  D >Yes, TS10 emulator and Simh emulator is able run Ultrix-32 as well.  H >Thank you for replies about Alpha emulators.  I found two working Alpha   >emulators on the Internet.lA >and now have them in my hand.  (SimOS 2.0 and SimpleScalar 3.0b)h SimOSt' >includes two MIPS and Alpha emulation.   
 >Tim Stark    P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   -- Bernard Giroud! Open Source COBOL Tools Developerm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:44:32 +1000u' From: nospam <x@wedontwantyourspam.com> ? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitableC5 Message-ID: <BC990D80.25E70%x@wedontwantyourspam.com>$  3 in article 406F01D8.15068B14@istop.com, JF Mezei atd4 jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com wrote on 04/04/2004 04:26:   > David Svensson wrote:fI >> Some Alpha people have gone to many places, but 200-300 people and allt: >> of the top designers of EV7 and EV8 have gone to Intel. > L > Are they free to leave Intel or is there some slavery contract that CompaqC > forced them into that binds them to stay with Intel for X years ?e > N > Also, do you really think that the ex-Digits will be working on that itaniumL > totally different chip they have no experience on, or isn't it more likelyN > they'll be working on the 64 bit 8086 that they have plenty of experience on) > since much of it was "alpha inspired" ?fJ Once again, I'll repeat this for you. The patents that intel where accusesJ of infringing with pentium all related to cache, especially cache snoop inL multi cpu configurations. There is nothing architecturally the same in alphaL and pentium!!!!! There is nothing "alpha inspired" in pentium, please delete this concept from you head.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:02:59 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>s? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitables8 Message-ID: <3u7570df87ffm752li38oiu4nq7hv6q9rd@4ax.com>  O On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:26:32 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:    >David Svensson wrote:I >> Some Alpha people have gone to many places, but 200-300 people and all-: >> of the top designers of EV7 and EV8 have gone to Intel. > K >Are they free to leave Intel or is there some slavery contract that CompaqnB >forced them into that binds them to stay with Intel for X years ?  P Slavery has been illegal in the US for nearly 150 years quite recent compared to; other civilised countries but still an awful long time ago.u   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'AzurF   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2004 12:28:35 -0500u; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable 3 Message-ID: <NVcbq9fVonQW@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  \ In article <3u7570df87ffm752li38oiu4nq7hv6q9rd@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes: > R > Slavery has been illegal in the US for nearly 150 years quite recent compared to= > other civilised countries but still an awful long time ago.   E    But it is not illegal to put conditions on severance pay and such,o5    which generally are not legally required benefits.w  ?    So if you want the severance pay you fulfill the conditions.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:46:10 -0400e2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>+ Subject: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in articlei. Message-ID: <407484B2.17886.544B303@localhost>  F http://computerworld.com.my/pcwmy.nsf/0/51AD53228FE014AE48256E6F00285F AF?OpenDocumenta  B "Expertise in legacy systems such as VAX, COBOL and VMS will be a C boon for prospective employees only if they also have expertise in >; how those systems can communicate with newer technologies."l  
 --Stan Quaylea Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671o1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147r= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:05:32 GMTs9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>i Subject: Re: VMS? 1 Message-ID: <0Hzcc.2372$cI1.239@news.cpqcorp.net>o  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:4072448B.4717D1BD@istop.com...o. > Queensland surfer boy Matt Muggeridge wrote:< > > Come on in, the water is warm and there is room for all! >i >eK > Hey mate, speak for yourself :-) The waters are still solidly frozen hereo inC > the great white north. Did the locust come to mow your lawn yet ?f >aL > Seriously though it would be interesting if the original poster elaborated onJ > why he thinks DECwindows sucks so bad. I suspect that if he were to look at itiL > on VAX, he would not see much changes. Burt on Alpha, they switched to CDE ando > some progress has been made.  I Sounded like a troll to me.  I wonder if it was one of the usual suspectse under a new assumed name.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:19:19 GMTa3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)  Subject: Re: VMS?a2 Message-ID: <rEBcc.2389$AQ1.1867@news.cpqcorp.net>  3 In article <N6$R1j0QN5kP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,t/ Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  >t >> What's the future?r > % >There will be strife in the Mideast.     And stock prices will fluctuate.   -- eJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 15:07:15 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> Subject: Re: VMS? 6 Message-ID: <Z9Dcc.874$ZB3.622@bignews3.bellsouth.net>   Charlie Hammond wrote:  5 > In article <N6$R1j0QN5kP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:t >  >>>What's the future?  >>& >>There will be strife in the Mideast. >  > " > And stock prices will fluctuate. >   L And the stars predict that tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff and  then go back to sleep.   --   Chucke   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:20:54 +0000 (UTC)Q From: helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)s5 Subject: RE: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100l$ Message-ID: <c4uld6$8cu$4@online.de>  7 In article <01346F18.C22236@yahoo.com>, "Brian Tillman"e <tillmabg@yahoo.com> writes: r  M > Moreover, VXTs can boot their OS from an InfoServer, which stores it on itstL > internal hard drive.  They also create their page files on the InfoServer.  G OK, I had forgotten that one.  Is there any advantage to booting a VXT  I from an InfoServer, as opposed to from a node in a VMS cluster, assuming vE that the only thing one will do on the VXT is log in to said cluster?    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2004 12:21:28 -0500h; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i5 Subject: RE: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100x3 Message-ID: <ueXK03k5fu2l@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  x In article <c4uld6$8cu$4@online.de>, helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:9 > In article <01346F18.C22236@yahoo.com>, "Brian Tillman"n > <tillmabg@yahoo.com> writes:   > N >> Moreover, VXTs can boot their OS from an InfoServer, which stores it on itsM >> internal hard drive.  They also create their page files on the InfoServer.y > I > OK, I had forgotten that one.  Is there any advantage to booting a VXT tK > from an InfoServer, as opposed to from a node in a VMS cluster, assuming tG > that the only thing one will do on the VXT is log in to said cluster?   G    Yes.  The V in VXT is for virtual (memory).  You can boot a VXT fromeD    a wide variety of systems, but it will only open a pagefile on an9    Infoserver.  Any other boot server makes the V silent.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:17:19 +0000 (UTC)Q From: helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)e5 Subject: Re: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100h$ Message-ID: <c4ul6f$8cu$2@online.de>  B In article <c4t1pu$d76$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:   I > >OK, but with just one CD in it, and for use only in a VMS cluster, it tH > >seems to make more sense to just MSCP serve it from one of the nodes. > >eM > Generally an Infoserver would have a whole lot of CD drives attached to it. 5 > We use ours to serve out the VMS documentation CDs.o  F Right, one could put them in an external box.  (I'm not talking about G the InfoServer 1000, which has room for 7, but the older InfoServer.)  a> Of course, one could do that on a node in the cluster as well.   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:19:16 +0000 (UTC)Q From: helbig@gladia.robots.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)s5 Subject: Re: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100a$ Message-ID: <c4ula3$8cu$3@online.de>  3 In article <KLaHLcL1rU2v@eisner.encompasserve.org>,o0 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   + > >> The Infoserver is a remote CD-server. t > > J > > OK, but with just one CD in it, and for use only in a VMS cluster, it I > > seems to make more sense to just MSCP serve it from one of the nodes.g > ? > Not if you want to do an initial boot from it to install VMS.n  F Right.  Let me rephrase my question: if one is using only VMS systems,G all of which have a drive from which VMS can be installed locally (i.e.rD a CD drive or a disk drive with an /IMAGE backup of the installationF CD), is there any advantage to an InfoServer compared to MSCP serving  the devices?   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:30:22 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)5 Subject: Re: VXT1300, InfoServer 150, VAXstation 3100o$ Message-ID: <c4upfe$cgc$6@online.de>  3 In article <MhWNouoormVA@eisner.encompasserve.org>,d0 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   H > The InfoServer 1000s I have all have zero internal drives.  All drivesI > are external, and I connect the configuration I choose (up to the limito > of 7).  H OK, there was a model though with the actual InfoServer unit integrated & in a large box with room for 7 drives.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:39:41 +0100r% From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>e+ Subject: WEBES install failing on DCLTABLESd8 Message-ID: <jlp570lbfaia0bjmj5tuc5f9ncl6p1rbse@4ax.com>   Greetings group,     OpenVMS 7.3-2  Alpha server ES45  DEC AXPVMS WEBES V4.3-1t    B Having problems installing WEBES on an Alpha server.  Installation@ goes fine until it tries to add the startup/shutdown commands to systartup_vms.   n    : Portion done: 0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...90%  -1 DESTA$STARTUP and DESTA$SHUTDOWN will be added to03 system startup and shutdown procedures, by default.C= Answering NO will add DESTA_LOGICALS$STARTUP, for defining ofv? ONLY LOGICALS but won't start the DESTA Director during Reboot.  Do you want to add?[YES]  4D %SET-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE;100 as input " -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file  oB %PCSI-E-EXEPSTFAIL, product supplied EXECUTE POSTINSTALL procedure failed) -SET-E-OPENIN, error opening !AS as input " %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failedE Terminating is strongly recommended.  Do you want to terminate? [YES]rF %PCSI-E-CANCEL_WIP, termination resulted in an incomplete modification
 to the system$/ %PCSI-E-S_OPCAN, operation cancelled by request C %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable errord	 conditionf=  OPERATION TERMINATED DUE TO AN UNRECOVERABLE ERROR CONDITIONA  @ Is this likely to be an installed image version mismatch?    The? version reported by the install utility is ;104 but the installE program is failing on ;100 F  5 $ install list SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE/full e  3   DCLTABLES;104    Open Hdr Shared            Lnkbli(         Entry access count         = 178*         Current / Maximum shared   = 2 / 5&         Global section count       = 1   Any ideas anyone?    Cheers, 	 	Dave.       ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:30:37 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>= Subject: Re: [OT]: Franken-food   was Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?M/ Message-ID: <wBKcc.201146$1p.2291902@attbi_s54>    Dr. Dweeb wrote:   > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: >  >>John Smith wrote:o >> (snip)  B >>By the way, corn is a genetically engineered food.  It came from9 >>Teosinte, which is much less edible.   Corn is also notc  3 > Genetically engineering != Selective cultivation.$  M > Equating selective cultivation with genetic engineering is facile.  Genetic>I > engineering is about modifying the gentic structure of an organism with I > genes from other organisms, while selective breeding is about producing G > strains of an organism where naturally ocurring, desirable traits area > dominant.s  > Where do you think those genes came from?  Nature is very good< at taking genes from wherever it finds them, including otherA organisms.   One of the most important parts of eukaryotic cells,DB the mitochondria, were stolen from bacteria billions of years ago.  < So, is selective cultivation not genetic or not engineering?  M > Modern maize is a product of selective cultivation, like a very, very large - > number of commercially produced food crops.i  A Well, it is enough different from teosinte that biologists didn't05 discover the origin until they could compare the DNA.x  ; If there are genes in maize that aren't in teosinte, how doo you think they got there?r   > Knock yourselves out hereoH > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/3288/index3.html?31%2C24   -- glen    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:52:47 +0200  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>= Subject: Re: [OT]: Franken-food   was Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?:, Message-ID: <c50c0f$ftq$1@news.cybercity.dk>   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > Dr. Dweeb wrote: >  >> glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:P >> >>> John Smith wrote:: >>>D > (snip) > D >>> By the way, corn is a genetically engineered food.  It came from; >>> Teosinte, which is much less edible.   Corn is also notT >I4 >> Genetically engineering != Selective cultivation. > E >> Equating selective cultivation with genetic engineering is facile.'D >> Genetic engineering is about modifying the gentic structure of anE >> organism with genes from other organisms, while selective breeding F >> is about producing strains of an organism where naturally ocurring,! >> desirable traits are dominant.  > @ > Where do you think those genes came from?  Nature is very good> > at taking genes from wherever it finds them, including otherC > organisms.   One of the most important parts of eukaryotic cells, D > the mitochondria, were stolen from bacteria billions of years ago. >n> > So, is selective cultivation not genetic or not engineering? >s  ! Engineering is a human endeavour.I  C >> Modern maize is a product of selective cultivation, like a very,t9 >> very large number of commercially produced food crops.4 >wC > Well, it is enough different from teosinte that biologists didn't 7 > discover the origin until they could compare the DNA.e > = > If there are genes in maize that aren't in teosinte, how don > you think they got there?  >r  G I know they did *not* get there - manually in a lab.  That nature has a I mechanism for gene sharing, bio-diversity or whatever, is not the same aseD equating it with some labtech sticking spider genes in a goat to getL spider-web material in goats-milk etc.  I am quite prepared to let nature be< in charge rather than some of the clowns I have met in labs.  J Anyway, my original point was (IIRC) that we do not actually need GM food,L and if we are to believe surveys of the public opinion in the western world,K we do not want it either.  The argument for fewer people is more compellingM (but not by much).   >> Knock yourselves out hereI >> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/3288/index3.html?31%2C247 >T	 > -- glend  	 Dr. Dweebi  + (Who is not going to continue this thread).    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.194 ************************