1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 14 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 206       Contents:B Re: Access violation while linking with cxxlink 6.5-004 on vms 7.3? RE: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... @ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers& Re: archiving save sets on a linux box RE: Back in the saddle Re: Back in the saddle Re: Back in the saddle Re: Back in the saddle% Re: Backup command / Tape help needed % RE: Backup command / Tape help needed % Re: Backup command / Tape help needed % RE: Backup command / Tape help needed % Re: Backup command / Tape help needed % Re: Backup command / Tape help needed % Re: Backup command / Tape help needed % Re: Backup command / Tape help needed % Re: Backup command / Tape help needed % Re: Backup command / Tape help needed , Re: Comments about VMS documentation website, Re: Comments about VMS documentation website( Comments about VMS documentation website@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??@ Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??H Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??  Patch! Connect Direct API Re: CXX Linker Issue.... Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards" Re: DEC Colorwriter 1000 diskettes" Re: DHCPd - TCPware 5.6-1 question5 Re: Finding the Number of users logged on ever 15 min & Re: For Sale BA356+PM+Disks+SCSI cable3 Re: How to call C function from Alpha assembly code 3 Re: How to call C function from Alpha assembly code & Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during install& Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during install& Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during install& Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during install& Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during install Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?  Re: OpenVMS for POWER!? $ Re: OT - Outsourced customer service$ Re: OT - Outsourced customer service$ Re: OT - Outsourced customer service$ Re: OT - Outsourced customer service$ Re: OT - Outsourced customer service$ Re: OT - Outsourced customer service- Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon 4 Re: pasteboardid,helplineid,keyid,titleid,virtualcntC Re: PBXGK-BB (ELSA GLoria Synergy, 4D10T (?)) DECwindows colormaps?  POP3 email timestamp problem Re: Postscript Re: Postscript Re: PostscriptB Re: Postscript (was: Re: Comments about VMS documentation website)" Proper management of DECC includes& Re: Proper management of DECC includes& Re: Proper management of DECC includes Re: Question on processors Re: Question on processors Question on processors' Re: reading VMS backups on UNIX -- HELP  Re: Restore using backup Re: Restore using backup Re: Restore using backup& Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?& Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP& Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTP& Re: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in article& Re: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in article& Re: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in article& Re: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in article+ Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished? + Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?  Re: VMS? Re: VMS?& Re: WEBES install failing on DCLTABLES& Re: WEBES install failing on DCLTABLES  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 22:53:04 -0700& From: igor.wetoschkin@bosch.com (igor)K Subject: Re: Access violation while linking with cxxlink 6.5-004 on vms 7.3 = Message-ID: <c9ed474c.0404132153.3ef2c8ee@posting.google.com>   o peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<newscache$tb2kvh$2hu1$1@news.sil.at>... g > In article <c9ed474c.0404010731.da28f31@posting.google.com>, igor.wetoschkin@bosch.com (igor) writes: N > >there are no problems while compiling, but while linking become i following > >message:  > * > No compile problem ? Not even warnings ? > B > >%MMS-F-ABORT, For target ACI_SP.EXE, CLI returned abort status: > >%X1000000C. > @ > ACCVIO should never happen (but in fact it is very common ;-). > I > Do you know of CXX V6.5 ECO1 aka V6.5A (which brings you to V6.5-034) ? ) > Maybe it fixes some of your problems...      Thank you. It's working now.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 18:41:10 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) H Subject: RE: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....3 Message-ID: <x+whlmgkdnLX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEEIDBAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: G > Well, I am sure many are gleefully wring their hands, but in the long / > run lack of competition is not a Good Thing.      ? 	Very good thing from Intel's and HP's perspective.  After all, A 	as co-developer you can bet that HP gets a fat Itanium discount.      > Moreover, with the fundsH > no longer needed for Sparc development Sun could be a much more fierce > competitor.     ? 	Sure - get rid of the UltraSparc boat anchor.  Likewise, ditch > 	Alpha development.  Fierce competitor?  Bzzzt.  The wind went! 	out of their sails 3 years back.   1 > I am just surprised that it took Sun this long.   = 	Nope.  They certainly couldn't have announced the murder of  @ 	UltarSparc V and Gemini without another Sparc to act as a placeE 	holder on a shredded UltraSparc roadmap.  Hence, "Rock" announcement & 	in early February was very important:  : http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/02/12/HNsunrock_1.html  ' Sun adds Rock to its UltraSparc roadmap E Company outlines plans for two new multithreading processor families     8 By James Niccolai, IDG News Service February 12, 2004      O Sun Microsystems Inc. shed some more light on its UltraSparc roadmap Wednesday, K outlining plans for two new processor families that will use multithreading 6 techniques to boost the performance of Sun's servers.    ---   @ 	Rock is a roadmap placeholder.  Surely, US5 murder decision wasB 	made some time ago and they needed to get the roadmap filled out.  F 	So for grins, let's suppose they murdered US5 and Gemini in December.D 	They would have had no "high-end" UltraSparc processor on a roadmap? 	as a placeholder.  What kind of signals would that have thrown D 	to their customer base?  As others have gleefully reminded us here,B 	Sun "has it right" as they are transitioning away from UltraSparcB 	in a nice manner (instead of having the rug pulled out from underC 	them as Alpha).  But now one wonders, don't they?  After all, such C 	a high profile project as UltraSparc V (7 years in the making) has  	been deep-sixed.    				Rob      >  >   -----Original Message-----< >   From: Keith Parris [mailto:keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com]( >   Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 9:35 AM >   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com L >   Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... >    >   > >   fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) wrote in message = >   news:<f30679fb.0404071102.310d2fae@posting.google.com>... B >   > Looks like Sun is firing SPARC engineers ! May be they will B >   > adopt AMD chips as standard ! So... Good By Solaris Sparc !  >   E >   The Register is reporting that Sun has cancelled the UltraSparc V ) >   (Millenium) and Gemini chip projects: : >   http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/09/sun_kills_us5/5 >   and cancelled the UltraSparc VI back in February: F >   http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/02/12/sun_shelves_ultrasparc_vi/ >    >   --- * >   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C >   Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 4/8/2004  >    > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 4/8/2004  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:48:29 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....( Message-ID: <407B2AB9.EA54CF1@istop.com>   Rob Young wrote:H >         Very good thing from Intel's and HP's perspective.  After all,J >         as co-developer you can bet that HP gets a fat Itanium discount.  K And as sole large customer for that IA64 thing, you can bet that HP's large N fat discounts are going to make it even harder for Intel to ever make money on that bloated low volume thing.  H >         Sure - get rid of the UltraSparc boat anchor.  Likewise, ditchG >         Alpha development.  Fierce competitor?  Bzzzt.  The wind went * >         out of their sails 3 years back.  / Isn't Fujitsu now doing the sparc development ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:28:28 -0700 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....2 Message-ID: <oc2dncZsqomwqebd4p2dnA@mpowercom.net>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEEIDBAA.tom@kednos.com... G > Well, I am sure many are gleefully wring their hands, but in the long . > run lack of competition is not a Good Thing. > K No argument, but I'm not so sure competition will suffer with the phase out H of Sparc, and it is a phase out despite any kind of spin Sun puts on it.K Too many of us remember what happened to the Alpha, and the eerie parallels  now unfolding.  I Sun is NOT going the Intel route, so if the development dollars flow into H furthering AMD64 this will not be a boon for the Itanium or the aging P4J line at the 2-8 CPU server niche.  Intel is already being hurt or we would? not have seen a  return to the PIII core in the Centrino or the ' wearenotAMD64 extensions for the Xeons.   K I got a snail mail the other day, nice glossy brochure touting some Itanium L high performance computing seminar.  I think it's obvious Intel is trying toI carve out an ecological niche for the Itanium as an Alpha HPC replacement L since the desktop market isn't going to happen (where oh where is the nativeK Itanium version of MS Office?), but I'm not convinced Intel can keep up the + performance race on two fronts against AMD.   H Meanwhile Sun still has Fujitsu to keep existing customers on an upgradeL path for Sparcs until they can get an AMD migration going.  I'm not clear ifH the Fujitsu Sparc is a contender at the HPC high end, though AMD BeowulfC clusers seem to be competitive with Itaniums when cost is a factor.     Jack Peacock    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:03:37 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....) Message-ID: <407B3C4F.69AC89D8@istop.com>    Jack Peacock wrote: N > path for Sparcs until they can get an AMD migration going.  I'm not clear ifJ > the Fujitsu Sparc is a contender at the HPC high end, though AMD BeowulfE > clusers seem to be competitive with Itaniums when cost is a factor.     J It seems to me that "HPC" is no longer a chip issue. Some folks have builtJ mega systems with MACs, Google has built it with wintel crap, and Intel/HPN have paid a few places to build something with that IA64 thing. And of course,J there are plenty of places that run IBM mainframes or Power based systems.  L HPC used to mean Cray and Control Data. But now, it seems some people manage1 to do those tasks on lowly 8086 game controllers.     H In a way, Carly is right in stating that enterprise systems will move toG commodity chips. Get commodity chips and build mega systems with clever I motherboards and inter CPU interfaces. The performance difference between N commodity chips and fancy niche market chips probably isn't sufficiant anymoreR to warrant spending the big bucks on those low volume porprietary chips like IA64.  M Yes, it would have been much better for the industry if Digital had succeeded J in making Alpha competitive. IA64 would have been stillborn. It woudl have, been a battle between Power, 8086 and Alpha.  I Right now, it is between Power, 8086 and Sparc, with Sparc's future being  debated.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 21:28:11 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....3 Message-ID: <cyPihqmTd+Ms@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <407B2AB9.EA54CF1@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:   I >>         Sure - get rid of the UltraSparc boat anchor.  Likewise, ditch H >>         Alpha development.  Fierce competitor?  Bzzzt.  The wind went+ >>         out of their sails 3 years back.  > 1 > Isn't Fujitsu now doing the sparc development ?   9 	Have been for quite some time.  They haven't dropped the  	anchor yet.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:47:50 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 8 Message-ID: <bicn701i98jacvvc6qlqt1h4j6mmrjqv5l@4ax.com>  3 On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:58:50 +0000, Andrew Harrison * <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote:   >UltraSPARC IV+ 
 >UltraSPARC V  >Niagara >Rock  > 7 >All currently under development, some in first silicon   H Shock! Horror! Did Sun lie to their customers when they promised to shipG UltraSPARC V etc? No, they told them what was true to the best of their G knowledge at the time. Circumstances change, fortunes change. Just like  decisions made regarding Alpha.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:52:03 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 8 Message-ID: <krcn70pvq2oecvcp94kb9iiqln3rnntr44@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:11:37 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge" ( <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote:  M >As Lou Reed says - stick a fork in it, it's done.  Of course, if I was a Sun   O Ok, I'm in Ultra-Pedant mode this morning. Lou Reed sort of said (or sang) what O Fred quotes but the full snippet of lyric from 'Last Great American Whale' from J the very wonderful 'New York' album (so great that it's one of my mother's
 favourites:-)   2 Its like what my painter friend Donald said to me< "Stick a fork in their ass and turn them over, theyre done"  O Of course it's possible that he isn't referring to SUn & SPARC but it does ring  true.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:26:11 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 0 Message-ID: <c5gf8b$2s4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nigel Barker wrote: 5 > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:58:50 +0000, Andrew Harrison , > <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote: >  >  >>UltraSPARC IV+ >>UltraSPARC V	 >>Niagara  >>Rock >>8 >>All currently under development, some in first silicon >  > J > Shock! Horror! Did Sun lie to their customers when they promised to shipI > UltraSPARC V etc? No, they told them what was true to the best of their I > knowledge at the time. Circumstances change, fortunes change. Just like ! > decisions made regarding Alpha.  >   6 Nice try but the chip that you and the market think of9 as UltraSPARC V may have been cancelled but SPARC hasn't.   : One of the reasons why the chip you think of as UltraSPARC7 V was cancelled is because it had to compete internally 
 with Rock.  9 Trying in the well tried HP choirister way to compare and ; contrast this with the demise of Alpha is only funny if you 8 arn't an Alpha cutomer. To everyone else its hillarious.   Regards  Andrew HArrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:51:23 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 8 Message-ID: <qsjn70tik882c2r4r2rslv3g6lsu93q5nn@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:26:11 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  : >Trying in the well tried HP choirister way to compare and< >contrast this with the demise of Alpha is only funny if you9 >arn't an Alpha cutomer. To everyone else its hillarious.   O I'm a software guy so ultimately I don't really care what hardware VMS runs on. L Mind you if it ran on SPARC the performance would be totally unacceptable to; what current Alpha & future Itanium customers would expect.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 18:43:25 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 3 Message-ID: <WPHr6ac61aTn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0404121354.1bbc8460@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:   r > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<6VY7c.29229$5ze.57@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...G >> "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message / >> news:%oY7c.1434$rp1.1207@news.cpqcorp.net... K >> > "Andrew Harrison" <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message / >> > news:c3ffta$369$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  >> > > UltraSPARC IV+  >> > > UltraSPARC V  >> > > Niagara >> > > Rock  >> > >= >> > > All currently under development, some in first silicon  >> >J >> > Bookmark this for when Sun eventually cancels some or all of them andK >> > announces that they will be pursuing an AMD strategy across the board.      	Spot on Fred!   >>  L >> Sun may well do that, but they won't until Solaris is fully ported to theN >> Opteron and has no compatibility problems, the vast majority of the SolarisN >> layered products are ported and tested, large numbers of ISV's (say greaterL >> than the 300 HP is talking about for VMS) have ported the majority of theL >> 10,000 applications available on Solaris, and Sun/Opereron boxes are well: >> received by customers as demonstrated by sales numbers. > & > Apparently Sun can't wait that long. > C > And being in development, even being in first silicon, apparently H > can't protect Sun's projects against cancellation, given Sun's currentG > financial straits. The UltraSparc V was reportedly already taped out. G > Yet The Register is reporting that Sun has cancelled the UltraSparc V + > (Millenium) and the Gemini chip projects: 9 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/09/sun_kills_us5/  @ > And Sun reportedly already cancelled the UltraSparc VI back in > February: D > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/02/12/sun_shelves_ultrasparc_vi/ > F > According to CNET, which echoes the above report on UltraSparc V and	 > Gemini: ; > http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5189458.html?tag=nefd.top G > Niagara and Rock aren't due out until the late-2006 to 2007 timerrame C > anyway. So there's still plenty of time left to cancel those. :-)     @ 	Nah - they won't cancel them.  See above.  Andrew shows us thatC 	some are so close to being products they have first silicon.  And  # 	yet ... US5 had taped out.  Goner!    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:58:42 +0100 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> / Subject: Re: archiving save sets on a linux box * Message-ID: <YmZec.166$KC6.81@newsfe1-win>   Tom Linden wrote:   K > Try fetching ftp://ftp.kednos.com/pub/reset_backup_saveset_attributes.com   = Getting the attributes right is necessary, but it looks to me > like the OP has failed to do a fetch in binary mode, and quite< possibly has failed to put in binary mode too. This may mean< that his data was mangled (possibly both on the outbound and return paths).  ; Both the put and the get should be performed in binary mode 2 (IMAGE) and then the attribute mangling can begin.   Antonio    --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:49:05 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: Back in the saddle R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB2C7149@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Mike Foley [mailto:mike-spam@yelof.com]=20 > Sent: April 13, 2004 1:47 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Back in the saddle  >=20 > Hi Everyone, >=20C > It's been about 10 years since I managed VMS systems on a regular  > basis.F > (Some of you may remember me from when I was managing VMS systems in7 > the VMS Group! STAR::MFOLEY or AXEL::FOLEY back then)  >=20C > Well, I've accepted a contract at a large university in Boston to B > manage some VMS systems. There's not much in the way of TecnicalG > Marketing positions out there! So, back in the well-worn saddle I go. G > It's ironic that I accepted this job the week John W. passed away. He = > would have been happy to hear someone getting a VMS job. :(  >=20> > I'm behind the curve in what's up with VMS so I've got a few > questions: >=20@ > 1 What documentation should I have on my bookshelf at work?=20 >=20F > 2. What stuff should I read to get me back up to speed? My expertise > was in the >    6.x timeframe.  >=20; > Any other insights and tips would be greatly appreciated. 	 > Thanks!  >=20# > Back to my audits of the systems,  >=20 > mike >=20   G'day Mike !  4 Nice to see folks coming back from the dark side ...   :-)   G Re: Doc's .. Check out the following for latest V7.3-2 online pointers:  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/   Archived doc's: + http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/archived.html    Re: audit of systems:   A If you have a service contract, ask them to run RCM to get latest B detailed software and hardware inventory reports from each system.  
 Reference:9 http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/svctools/rcm/index.html      Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:41:26 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Back in the saddle 0 Message-ID: <newscache$x0k4wh$edn$1@news.sil.at>  e In article <8edb64a.0404130947.425276dd@posting.google.com>, mike-spam@yelof.com (Mike Foley) writes: B >It's been about 10 years since I managed VMS systems on a regular >basis.    Must have been a VAX then...  = >1 What documentation should I have on my bookshelf at work?    % A browser to access (and maybe print)   E 1) online VMS doc	http://www.openvms.digital.com/doc/os732_index.html B 2) VMS FAQ		http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/openvms_faq.htmlH 3) COMP.OS.VMS archive	http://groups.google.com/groups?group=comp.os.vms5 4) VMS wizard		http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/ 1 5) some good VMS books (to finance some of us ;-)   E >2. What stuff should I read to get me back up to speed? My expertise  >was in the  >   6.x timeframe.  K An Alpha VAX comparison, maybe some Alpha Hardware Guides to read something J about SRM firmware, and the new feature guides of the last VMS versions...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:22:32 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: Back in the saddle ' Message-ID: <407C5A18.38C01A43@aaa.com>    Mike Foley wrote:  > = > 1 What documentation should I have on my bookshelf at work?    Probably none.  < Fill up your harddisk of your laptop with PDF's from the VMS: doc site instead. Then you'll always have them with you...   :-) 	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:51:19 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: Back in the saddle 0 Message-ID: <407C5E6F.50F78F96@blueyonder.co.uk>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > g > In article <8edb64a.0404130947.425276dd@posting.google.com>, mike-spam@yelof.com (Mike Foley) writes: D > >It's been about 10 years since I managed VMS systems on a regular	 > >basis.  >  > Must have been a VAX then...  / VMS was available on Alphas in 1994, I am sure.      --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:09:08 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>. Subject: Re: Backup command / Tape help needed- Message-ID: <81Wec.29556$wP1.79198@attbi_s54>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:    (snip)  G > Nope.  "Parity error" is what you get returned from the device driver G > for any sort of unrecoverable media error.  The block of data you got . > back had a problem.  The data is unreliable.  G > If you run off the end of the portion of the tape that was written on H > one go and into the portion of the tape that was written on a previousI > go, you're almost certain to find that the boundary lands in the middle F > of a piece of old data.  (On classic 9 track, you might luck out andG > have the inter-record gaps line up, but on modern media, inter-record F > gapes are emulated, not physical).  So you're pretty much guaranteedC > to get a checksum failure when you try to read the first block of = > old data.  And that will be manifested as a "parity error".   = I believe some drives have the ability to fast forward to the " next tape mark, though many don't.  E > If I remember right, a 9 track inter-record gap is around 1/2 inch. D > Big enough so that a start/stop drive can bring the tape to a haltF > in half an IRG and accelerate it back up to speed in the other half.D > By contrast a 1600 bpi label record is about 1/20 of an inch long.  B 7 track were 0.75in, 9 track 800 and 1600BPI 0.6in, and at 6250CPIA they were 0.3in.   As far as I know, it can decelerate, then back 3 up enough to be up to speed for the next operation.   F > 9 track mag tape (and the emulations thereof using helical scan, DLTG > or whatever) is an append-only medium -- with the caveat that you can J > seek to any desired point and start appending there.  But once you startJ > appending, any pre-existing data past that point on the tape is presumed > to be toast.  G For DDS as I understand it this is enforced by the hardware.  I believe C for Exabyte (8mm) it is sometimes possible to convince the drive to @ skip a block and read the next one.   The blocks written on tape4 may be larger than the blocks written by the system.  ? Probably the OP should at least try reading the tape on another  system.    -- glen    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 09:34:37 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: RE: Backup command / Tape help needed3 Message-ID: <OEaYptTDpZu$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ~ In article <000201c421a4$9b2b8410$e9542b52@adept.adeptconsultants.net>, "Darren Boyle" <Darren_Boyle@BlueYonder.co.UK> writes:L > It's been a very long time since I've tried this but if this is a mag tapeK > and you do not mind losing the first couple of files in the save set then G > you should be able to use the following.  BUT BE WARNED once you have M > written the new header to the tape you WILL NOT be able to retrieve the old  > one.  I [snip technique which overwrites first portion of tape and does not write  end-of-volume tape marks]   D This technique is viable on 9 track, but is not useful on any modern@ media.  It is pretty much guaranteed to introduce a parity errorB at the boundary between new data and old.  And on modern media you can't read past a tape error.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:31:10 +0100 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> . Subject: Re: Backup command / Tape help needed8 Message-ID: <gtmn705o4d0nt4d3o7b9pabfio1oumnlvn@4ax.com>  K On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:22:56 +0100, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>  wrote:  ? >Please try John Briggs's suggestion, mounting the tape foreign  >i.e.  > , >	$ mount/foreign/nowrite/block=8192 mkb400:= >	$ set mag/skip=file=1 mkb400:	! skip past the header labels  >	$ copy mkb400: x.x > > >If the problem is indeed with the trailer labels, then you've; >been lucky, and file X.X will be an intact BACKUP saveset.   L One post did report that BACKUP reported the tape to be "not ANSI labelled",L and iirc the /list output was empty.  With duff trailer labels, I would haveJ expected to have seen at least the saveset header info.  My money would beI on an intermittent inability to read the headers.  Your suggested command F sequence looks sound.  If the data blocks are not corrupt, they should2 transfer to disk and look like an on-disk saveset.  : >If you get a parity error on the copy, then you're stuck.: >Not even BACKUP will be able to get past the parity errorA >(cf. 9-track tapes, where it would have very probably succeeded) @ >since this is a helical-scan tape, where everything on the tape! >depends on everything before it.   K Is that right ?  I used to have an article detailing the enormous amount of K redundancy and error-checking on 8mm devices.  Even if the drive insists on E returning errors, BACKUP's own redundancy blocks may still be able to L recover the data.  A lot may depend on BACKUP's behaviour, and my experience. with 8mm tapes was not all that good, however.  @ >Depending on how far down the tape the parity error occurs, you% >might get *something* usable in X.X.   L Just keep going with the COPY commands, would be my recommendation, until anG end-of-file is reached and the last command exits without errors.  Then A append the bits to one another and see what BACKUP/LIST produces.   B There is one risk in all this - if the tape is falling apart, each< successive read cycle may well be damaging it still further.   --  ; Never itch for anything you aren't willing to scratch for.     Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 11:20:27 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: RE: Backup command / Tape help needed3 Message-ID: <$qLs4Se0Eb8i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ~ In article <000c01c421a9$e15e4da0$e9542b52@adept.adeptconsultants.net>, "Darren Boyle" <Darren_Boyle@BlueYonder.co.UK> writes:6 > From: Roy Omond [mailto:Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com]0 > (Please do not top-post - my original snipped) > N > What is the problem here, the mail was not sent to you it is for the benefit? > of the group, I simply replied to them, it's easier that way.  > 7 > I have no idea what you hope to achieve by the above.  > H > Hope?, this will begin by writing a new header (BOT) over the originalJ > header, then the CTRL_Y will abort the write operation without writing a > logical EOT marker.   E Yeah.  I've seen the technique described many years ago.  The classic F case in which it is useful is when a BACKUP tape has been accidentally re-initialized.  But...   F In the case at hand, the data we wish to save is the first save set on= tape and the headers preceding that data appear to be intact.   F And we are dealing with helical scan media, so we really don't want toE do anything that would result in creating a media error that we can't 
 read past.  F The reference to a "BOT" header is potentially misleading.  On classicA 9 track tape, there is a "BOT" marker which is a reflective strip E glued to the media.  That obviously can't be overwritten in software. C (nice VAX Magic war story "Dual Density mag tape" involved multipletB BOT markers).  What you're writing over would be the VOL1 and HDR1 labels appearing at BOT.  B "Logical EOT marker" is also potentially misleading.  On classic 9@ track tape, there is an "EOT" marker which is another reflectiveD strip located near the physical end of tape.  The real end of volume= indication is two back-to-back tape marks (a single tape mark.= being taken as end-of-file rather than end-of-volume).  It isr> this pair of tape marks that the control-Y prevents from being? written.  (On ANSI labelled mag tape, the waters are muddied bys@ the possibility of an empty file, resulting in back to back tape$ marks not indicating end-of-volume).   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 11:35:13 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: Backup command / Tape help needed3 Message-ID: <rCxe$Ts0RdUX@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  q In article <c5gv2r$1hh18$1@ID-191217.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> writes:c > - > <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in messagep/ > news:OEaYptTDpZu$@eisner.encompasserve.org...e >  >  < snip >c > F >>This technique is viable on 9 track, but is not useful on any modernC >> media.  It is pretty much guaranteed to introduce a parity error  > L > pretty much? My understanding of parity is that that probability of having > the wrong parity is 50% ;-)d  E Nope.  "Parity error" is what you get returned from the device drivereE for any sort of unrecoverable media error.  The block of data you got , back had a problem.  The data is unreliable.  E If you run off the end of the portion of the tape that was written onnF one go and into the portion of the tape that was written on a previousG go, you're almost certain to find that the boundary lands in the middleaD of a piece of old data.  (On classic 9 track, you might luck out andE have the inter-record gaps line up, but on modern media, inter-record D gapes are emulated, not physical).  So you're pretty much guaranteedA to get a checksum failure when you try to read the first block ofo; old data.  And that will be manifested as a "parity error".a  C If I remember right, a 9 track inter-record gap is around 1/2 inch.iB Big enough so that a start/stop drive can bring the tape to a haltD in half an IRG and accelerate it back up to speed in the other half.B By contrast a 1600 bpi label record is about 1/20 of an inch long.  D 9 track mag tape (and the emulations thereof using helical scan, DLTE or whatever) is an append-only medium -- with the caveat that you can H seek to any desired point and start appending there.  But once you startH appending, any pre-existing data past that point on the tape is presumed to be toast.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:17:21 GMT ( From: "NeedHelp" <eckmant@earthlink.net>. Subject: Re: Backup command / Tape help needed4 Message-ID: <5qyec.2935$hg1.25@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>  F Yes the first few records are 80 bytes long.  No, there were no parityK errors.  It only required one dump command not two.  The results follow.  IiC did find the backup command used in the following listing, with therE block=1600 qualifier.  Unfortunately my current configuration acceptsd4 /block= sizes in the range of 2048 an 65,535 blocks.  " I'm still unable to read the tape.     A1000:> dump mkb400:  1 Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80   * Block number 1 (00000001), 80 (0050) bytes  <  20202020 20203439 39323330 314C4F56 VOL1032994       000000<  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000010<  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000020<  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000030<  33202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                3 000040      1 Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80t  * Block number 2 (00000002), 80 (0050) bytes  <  20202020 4B43422E 46313141 31524448 HDR1A11F.BCK     000000<  30313030 30343939 32333020 20202020      03299400010 000010<  20383830 34392030 30313030 30313030 001000100 94088  000020<  56434544 30303030 30302038 38303439 94088 000000DECV 000030<  20202020 20202020 50554B43 4142534D MSBACKUP         000040    1 Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80b  * Block number 3 (00000003), 80 (0050) bytes  <  20323931 38303239 31383046 32524448 HDR2F0819208192  000000<  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000010<  20202020 20202020 2020204D 20202020     M            000020<  20202020 20202020 20202020 30302020   00             000030<  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000040           ***  End of file  ***1  1 Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80.  , Block number 4 (00000004), 8192 (2000) bytes  <  00000000 00000001 00010001 04000100 ................ 000000<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000010<  00000000 00002000 EA8A86F2 00010101 ....... ...... 000020<  00000000 0000004B 43422E46 31314108 .A11F.BCK....... 000030<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000040<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000050<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000060<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000070<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000080<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000090<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000A0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000B0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000C0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000D0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000E0<  0CA30000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ............... 0000F0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00010110 ................ 000100<  006F4B43 422E4631 31410001 00080101 ......A11F.BCKo. 000110<  59544953 4E45442F 50554B43 41420002 ..BACKUP/DENSITY 000120<  4F4E4749 2F454741 4D492F30 3036313D =1600/IMAGE/IGNO 000130<  414C2C4B 434F4C52 45544E49 283D4552 RE=(INTERLOCK,LA 000140<  54515F31 31413D54 53494C2F 294C4542 BEL)/LIST=A11_QT 000150<  44524F43 45522F53 494C2E34 395F3130 01_94.LIS/RECORD 000160<  3A304355 4D203A31 31414944 24312420  $1$DIA11: MUC0: 000170<  4E495745 524F4E2F 4B43422E 46313141 A11F.BCK/NOREWIN 000180<  20202020 204D4554 53595300 04000C44 D....SYSTEM      000190<  21CCE000 06000800 01000400 05000420  ............! 0001A0<  56000800 04040000 07000200 97C2CF25 %............V 0001B0<  043A3A30 30303456 5F000900 08352E35 5.5...._V4000::. 0001C0<  30303456 5F000B00 0C0B0000 06000A00 ..........._V400 0001D0<  04352E35 56000C00 043A3043 554D2430 0$MUC0:....V5.5. 0001E0<  0F000200 0A000E00 02000020 00000D00 .... ........... 0001F0<  20202020 20202020 20001000 0C007000 .p.....          000200<  00000000 00000000 01001100 02202020    ............. 000210<  00000000 00000000 00000000 000200D0 ?............... 000220<  20313141 0015000C 02010014 00020101 ............A11  000230<  4C4C494D 0016000C 20202020 20202020         ....MILL 000240<  46434544 0017000C 20202020 20205245 ER      ....DECF 000250<  00080008 00190004 20204231 31454C49 ILE11B  ........ 000260<  001C0002 FA00001B 00020000 001A0002 ............... 000270<  228C5140 001E0008 0008001D 0002FE00 .?..........@Q." 000280<  00020300 20000107 001F0001 00943564 d5......... .... 000290<  00090023 00020003 00220002 00050021 !.....".....#... 0002A0<  0003BA20 00270004 001DD102 00240004 ..$......'. .. 0002B0<  72102167 00290004 00005608 00280004 ..(..V....).g!.r 0002C0<  00000000 004C0008 000EE935 00430004 ..C.5....L..... 0002D0<  00000000 00000000 004D0008 00000000 ......M......... 0002E0<  00000000 00000000 00000001 00580002 ..X............. 0002F0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 000300<  00040003 00020001 00400001 00010101 ......@......... 000310<  0015000C 00010009 00080007 00060005 ................ 000320<  00060007 000A0008 000B0002 0009000E ................ 000330<  00020002 0018001D 00380007 00080010 ......8......... 000340<  00020002 00020002 00020002 00020002 ................ 000350<  0005000B 000A0002 00020003 008D001F ................ 000360<  0002003E 00020073 00D0001F 00020002 ......?.s...>... 000370<  00020002 00020002 00130002 00020002 ................ 000380<  00000000 00000000 00020002 00020002 ................ 000390<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 0003A0<  0054006B 000C0002 00400001 00410101 ..A...@.....k.T. 0003B0<  003E0008 00140005 00020013 00350002 ..5...........>. 0003C0<  00090011 0011000C 00020002 00070002 ................ 0003D0<  00020002 00470002 0002000A 00170002 ..........G..... 0003E0<  00020002 00020002 00020002 00190016 ................ 0003F0<  000D0008 00420007 004D0005 00020002 ......M...B..... 000400<  00050004 000C001A 000C000E 000D003D =............... 000410<  00020002 001B0007 00020002 00020002 ................ 000420<  00000000 00000000 0019000B 003E0006 ..>............. 000430<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 000440<  00120002 001E000D 00400001 00810101 ......@......... 000450<  00020002 001D0002 0004002C 002A000C ..*.,........... 000460<  00020026 001B0054 0019000E 00260002 ..&.....T...&... 000470<  00020002 00020035 00020004 00080002 ........5....... 000480<  003E00A7 0074005D 003E0038 0009001F ....8.>.].t..>. 000490<  00310021 00620025 001E003A 004D0019 ..M.:...%.b.!.1. 0004A0<  00020002 00020002 0002007F 00070007 ................ 0004B0<  00320002 00020002 000E004A 004A0011 ..J.J.........2. 0004C0<  00000000 00000000 00390003 00280070 p.(...9......... 0004D0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 0004E0<  000F001B 004C0021 00400001 00C10101 .....@.!.L..... 0004F0<  00020002 000A0002 00020044 00020018 ....D........... 000500<  00310015 00260008 0002002C 003C0002 ..<.,.....&...1. 000510              + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in messager- news:$ShGnbcJGGt6@eisner.encompasserve.org...cA > In article <dDzdc.3565$F9.832@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, "NeedHelp"  <eckmant@earthlink.net> writes:nK > > I have an Alpha 1000 running OpenVMS 6.2 and a tape library filled withL; > > tapes written by several generations of Exabyte drives.  > >aJ > > I've confirmed with Exabyte that my current Mammoth LT drive should be ableL > > to read my older 112-M tapes which I believe were writte with an Exabyte* > > 8500 under VMS 5.x or the current 6.2. > >uG > > I can mount the tape foreign, but when I try to backup /list it VMSh tells me > > it is not an ANSI tape.a > > 3 > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.  >i  > $ MOUNT /FOREIGN <device-name> > $ DUMP <device-name>: F > $ DUMP <device-name>: ! An ANSI labelled tape will contain more data > ! after the first tape mark. >nH > Report back.  We're interested in whether the first few records on theF > tape are 80 bytes long, whether there are parity errors, whether theA > second dump shows long records and, depending on that, what thep+ > contents of some of the data blocks show.b >uJ > A BACKUP labelled tape should have printable ANSI header data in betweenI > 2 and 4 80 byte header records (displayed by the first DUMP command), a E > tape mark and then, the save set data (displayed by the second DUMPvE > command) in large fixed length blocks where the block size is givenD< > by the BACKUP /BLOCK=xxx qualifier (default 8192 for tape) >o
 > John Briggsa   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 11:10:02 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: Backup command / Tape help needed3 Message-ID: <MEXk0BOp10Do@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  _ In article <5qyec.2935$hg1.25@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "NeedHelp" <eckmant@earthlink.net> writes:3H > Yes the first few records are 80 bytes long.  No, there were no parityM > errors.  It only required one dump command not two.  The results follow.  ICE > did find the backup command used in the following listing, with thecG > block=1600 qualifier.  Unfortunately my current configuration acceptsa6 > /block= sizes in the range of 2048 an 65,535 blocks. > $ > I'm still unable to read the tape.  ; Looks good to me.  If it were me, my next move would be to:o   $ set mag /rewind mkb400:  $ copy mkb400: nl: /logw $ convert mkb400: tapefile.dat record format fixed	 size 8192e! $ backup /list tapefile.dat /saven   -or-   $ dismount /nounl mkb400:,$ $ mount mkb400: /over=id /block=8192 $ copy mkb400:a11f.bck [] /log $ backup /list a11f.bck /save   ? The 1600 you see in the dump is the /DENSITY=1600.  Pretty well E irrelevant for helical scan media, I'd expect.  Since we have legible + data we know we don't have a density issue.   @ The blocks on tape are 8192 bytes in length.  That's the default= for BACKUP on tape.  It's exactly what I'd expect to see on af perfectly ordinary backup tape.   F Can you show us the commands used and error messages that are produced> when you try to restore this tape?  I'm baffled at this point.   	John Briggs >  >  > A1000:> dump mkb400: > 3 > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80h > , > Block number 1 (00000001), 80 (0050) bytes > > >  20202020 20203439 39323330 314C4F56 VOL1032994       000000> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000010> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000020> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000030> >  33202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                3 000040 >  >  > 3 > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80  > , > Block number 2 (00000002), 80 (0050) bytes > > >  20202020 4B43422E 46313141 31524448 HDR1A11F.BCK     000000> >  30313030 30343939 32333020 20202020      03299400010 000010> >  20383830 34392030 30313030 30313030 001000100 94088  000020> >  56434544 30303030 30302038 38303439 94088 000000DECV 000030> >  20202020 20202020 50554B43 4142534D MSBACKUP         000040 >  > 3 > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80- > , > Block number 3 (00000003), 80 (0050) bytes > > >  20323931 38303239 31383046 32524448 HDR2F0819208192  000000> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000010> >  20202020 20202020 2020204D 20202020     M            000020> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 30302020   00             000030> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000040 >  >         ***  End of file  ***y > 3 > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80o > . > Block number 4 (00000004), 8192 (2000) bytes > > >  00000000 00000001 00010001 04000100 ................ 000000> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000010> >  00000000 00002000 EA8A86F2 00010101 ....... ...... 000020> >  00000000 0000004B 43422E46 31314108 .A11F.BCK....... 000030> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000040> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000050> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000060> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000070> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000080> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000090> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000A0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000B0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000C0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000D0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000E0> >  0CA30000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ............... 0000F0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00010110 ................ 000100> >  006F4B43 422E4631 31410001 00080101 ......A11F.BCKo. 000110> >  59544953 4E45442F 50554B43 41420002 ..BACKUP/DENSITY 000120> >  4F4E4749 2F454741 4D492F30 3036313D =1600/IMAGE/IGNO 000130> >  414C2C4B 434F4C52 45544E49 283D4552 RE=(INTERLOCK,LA 000140> >  54515F31 31413D54 53494C2F 294C4542 BEL)/LIST=A11_QT 000150> >  44524F43 45522F53 494C2E34 395F3130 01_94.LIS/RECORD 000160> >  3A304355 4D203A31 31414944 24312420  $1$DIA11: MUC0: 000170> >  4E495745 524F4E2F 4B43422E 46313141 A11F.BCK/NOREWIN 000180> >  20202020 204D4554 53595300 04000C44 D....SYSTEM      000190> >  21CCE000 06000800 01000400 05000420  ............! 0001A0> >  56000800 04040000 07000200 97C2CF25 %............V 0001B0> >  043A3A30 30303456 5F000900 08352E35 5.5...._V4000::. 0001C0> >  30303456 5F000B00 0C0B0000 06000A00 ..........._V400 0001D0> >  04352E35 56000C00 043A3043 554D2430 0$MUC0:....V5.5. 0001E0> >  0F000200 0A000E00 02000020 00000D00 .... ........... 0001F0> >  20202020 20202020 20001000 0C007000 .p.....          000200> >  00000000 00000000 01001100 02202020    ............. 000210> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 000200D0 ?............... 000220> >  20313141 0015000C 02010014 00020101 ............A11  000230> >  4C4C494D 0016000C 20202020 20202020         ....MILL 000240> >  46434544 0017000C 20202020 20205245 ER      ....DECF 000250> >  00080008 00190004 20204231 31454C49 ILE11B  ........ 000260> >  001C0002 FA00001B 00020000 001A0002 ............... 000270> >  228C5140 001E0008 0008001D 0002FE00 .?..........@Q." 000280> >  00020300 20000107 001F0001 00943564 d5......... .... 000290> >  00090023 00020003 00220002 00050021 !.....".....#... 0002A0> >  0003BA20 00270004 001DD102 00240004 ..$......'. .. 0002B0> >  72102167 00290004 00005608 00280004 ..(..V....).g!.r 0002C0> >  00000000 004C0008 000EE935 00430004 ..C.5....L..... 0002D0> >  00000000 00000000 004D0008 00000000 ......M......... 0002E0> >  00000000 00000000 00000001 00580002 ..X............. 0002F0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 000300> >  00040003 00020001 00400001 00010101 ......@......... 000310> >  0015000C 00010009 00080007 00060005 ................ 000320> >  00060007 000A0008 000B0002 0009000E ................ 000330> >  00020002 0018001D 00380007 00080010 ......8......... 000340> >  00020002 00020002 00020002 00020002 ................ 000350> >  0005000B 000A0002 00020003 008D001F ................ 000360> >  0002003E 00020073 00D0001F 00020002 ......?.s...>... 000370> >  00020002 00020002 00130002 00020002 ................ 000380> >  00000000 00000000 00020002 00020002 ................ 000390> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 0003A0> >  0054006B 000C0002 00400001 00410101 ..A...@.....k.T. 0003B0> >  003E0008 00140005 00020013 00350002 ..5...........>. 0003C0> >  00090011 0011000C 00020002 00070002 ................ 0003D0> >  00020002 00470002 0002000A 00170002 ..........G..... 0003E0> >  00020002 00020002 00020002 00190016 ................ 0003F0> >  000D0008 00420007 004D0005 00020002 ......M...B..... 000400> >  00050004 000C001A 000C000E 000D003D =............... 000410> >  00020002 001B0007 00020002 00020002 ................ 000420> >  00000000 00000000 0019000B 003E0006 ..>............. 000430> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 000440> >  00120002 001E000D 00400001 00810101 ......@......... 000450> >  00020002 001D0002 0004002C 002A000C ..*.,........... 000460> >  00020026 001B0054 0019000E 00260002 ..&.....T...&... 000470> >  00020002 00020035 00020004 00080002 ........5....... 000480> >  003E00A7 0074005D 003E0038 0009001F ....8.>.].t..>. 000490> >  00310021 00620025 001E003A 004D0019 ..M.:...%.b.!.1. 0004A0> >  00020002 00020002 0002007F 00070007 ................ 0004B0> >  00320002 00020002 000E004A 004A0011 ..J.J.........2. 0004C0> >  00000000 00000000 00390003 00280070 p.(...9......... 0004D0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 0004E0> >  000F001B 004C0021 00400001 00C10101 .....@.!.L..... 0004F0> >  00020002 000A0002 00020044 00020018 ....D........... 000500> >  00310015 00260008 0002002C 003C0002 ..<.,.....&...1. 000510   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:07:33 GMT ( From: "NeedHelp" <eckmant@earthlink.net>. Subject: Re: Backup command / Tape help needed6 Message-ID: <9GCec.4117$hg1.1534@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>   Yes.  I used these commands:   A1000:> mount/for mkb400:1* %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked2 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, 032994 mounted on _A1000$MKB400: A1000:> backup /list mkb400: Listing of save set(s)  G %BACKUP-F-LABELERR, error in tape label processing on MKB400:[000000].;s0 -BACKUP-F-NOTANSI, tape is not valid ANSI format A1000:>e    + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in messaget- news:MEXk0BOp10Do@eisner.encompasserve.org...-A > In article <5qyec.2935$hg1.25@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "NeedHelp"a <eckmant@earthlink.net> writes:cJ > > Yes the first few records are 80 bytes long.  No, there were no parityL > > errors.  It only required one dump command not two.  The results follow. I_G > > did find the backup command used in the following listing, with therI > > block=1600 qualifier.  Unfortunately my current configuration accepts,8 > > /block= sizes in the range of 2048 an 65,535 blocks. > > & > > I'm still unable to read the tape. >l= > Looks good to me.  If it were me, my next move would be to:t >g > $ set mag /rewind mkb400:a > $ copy mkb400: nl: /logt  > $ convert mkb400: tapefile.dat > record > format fixed > size 8192n# > $ backup /list tapefile.dat /savee >r > -or- >- > $ dismount /nounl mkb400:a& > $ mount mkb400: /over=id /block=8192  > $ copy mkb400:a11f.bck [] /log > $ backup /list a11f.bck /saved > A > The 1600 you see in the dump is the /DENSITY=1600.  Pretty welliG > irrelevant for helical scan media, I'd expect.  Since we have legiblel- > data we know we don't have a density issue.0 >1B > The blocks on tape are 8192 bytes in length.  That's the default? > for BACKUP on tape.  It's exactly what I'd expect to see on am! > perfectly ordinary backup tape.  >iH > Can you show us the commands used and error messages that are produced@ > when you try to restore this tape?  I'm baffled at this point. >e
 > John Briggse > >o > >t > > A1000:> dump mkb400: > >n5 > > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80e > >o. > > Block number 1 (00000001), 80 (0050) bytes > > @ > >  20202020 20203439 39323330 314C4F56 VOL1032994       000000@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000010@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000020@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000030@ > >  33202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                3 000040 > >. > >  > > 5 > > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80  > > . > > Block number 2 (00000002), 80 (0050) bytes > >h@ > >  20202020 4B43422E 46313141 31524448 HDR1A11F.BCK     000000@ > >  30313030 30343939 32333020 20202020      03299400010 000010@ > >  20383830 34392030 30313030 30313030 001000100 94088  000020@ > >  56434544 30303030 30302038 38303439 94088 000000DECV 000030@ > >  20202020 20202020 50554B43 4142534D MSBACKUP         000040 > >h > >.5 > > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80  > >f. > > Block number 3 (00000003), 80 (0050) bytes > >g@ > >  20323931 38303239 31383046 32524448 HDR2F0819208192  000000@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000010@ > >  20202020 20202020 2020204D 20202020     M            000020@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 30302020   00             000030@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000040 > >e! > >         ***  End of file  ***- > > 5 > > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80e > >a0 > > Block number 4 (00000004), 8192 (2000) bytes > >B@ > >  00000000 00000001 00010001 04000100 ................ 000000@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000010@ > >  00000000 00002000 EA8A86F2 00010101 ....... ...... 000020@ > >  00000000 0000004B 43422E46 31314108 .A11F.BCK....... 000030@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000040@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000050@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000060@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000070@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000080@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000090@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000A0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000B0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000C0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000D0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000E0@ > >  0CA30000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ............... 0000F0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00010110 ................ 000100@ > >  006F4B43 422E4631 31410001 00080101 ......A11F.BCKo. 000110@ > >  59544953 4E45442F 50554B43 41420002 ..BACKUP/DENSITY 000120@ > >  4F4E4749 2F454741 4D492F30 3036313D =1600/IMAGE/IGNO 000130@ > >  414C2C4B 434F4C52 45544E49 283D4552 RE=(INTERLOCK,LA 000140@ > >  54515F31 31413D54 53494C2F 294C4542 BEL)/LIST=A11_QT 000150@ > >  44524F43 45522F53 494C2E34 395F3130 01_94.LIS/RECORD 000160@ > >  3A304355 4D203A31 31414944 24312420  $1$DIA11: MUC0: 000170@ > >  4E495745 524F4E2F 4B43422E 46313141 A11F.BCK/NOREWIN 000180@ > >  20202020 204D4554 53595300 04000C44 D....SYSTEM      000190@ > >  21CCE000 06000800 01000400 05000420  ............! 0001A0@ > >  56000800 04040000 07000200 97C2CF25 %............V 0001B0@ > >  043A3A30 30303456 5F000900 08352E35 5.5...._V4000::. 0001C0@ > >  30303456 5F000B00 0C0B0000 06000A00 ..........._V400 0001D0@ > >  04352E35 56000C00 043A3043 554D2430 0$MUC0:....V5.5. 0001E0@ > >  0F000200 0A000E00 02000020 00000D00 .... ........... 0001F0@ > >  20202020 20202020 20001000 0C007000 .p.....          000200@ > >  00000000 00000000 01001100 02202020    ............. 000210@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 000200D0 ?............... 000220@ > >  20313141 0015000C 02010014 00020101 ............A11  000230@ > >  4C4C494D 0016000C 20202020 20202020         ....MILL 000240@ > >  46434544 0017000C 20202020 20205245 ER      ....DECF 000250@ > >  00080008 00190004 20204231 31454C49 ILE11B  ........ 000260@ > >  001C0002 FA00001B 00020000 001A0002 ............... 000270@ > >  228C5140 001E0008 0008001D 0002FE00 .?..........@Q." 000280@ > >  00020300 20000107 001F0001 00943564 d5......... .... 000290@ > >  00090023 00020003 00220002 00050021 !.....".....#... 0002A0@ > >  0003BA20 00270004 001DD102 00240004 ..$......'. .. 0002B0@ > >  72102167 00290004 00005608 00280004 ..(..V....).g!.r 0002C0@ > >  00000000 004C0008 000EE935 00430004 ..C.5....L..... 0002D0@ > >  00000000 00000000 004D0008 00000000 ......M......... 0002E0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000001 00580002 ..X............. 0002F0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 000300@ > >  00040003 00020001 00400001 00010101 ......@......... 000310@ > >  0015000C 00010009 00080007 00060005 ................ 000320@ > >  00060007 000A0008 000B0002 0009000E ................ 000330@ > >  00020002 0018001D 00380007 00080010 ......8......... 000340@ > >  00020002 00020002 00020002 00020002 ................ 000350@ > >  0005000B 000A0002 00020003 008D001F ................ 000360@ > >  0002003E 00020073 00D0001F 00020002 ......?.s...>... 000370@ > >  00020002 00020002 00130002 00020002 ................ 000380@ > >  00000000 00000000 00020002 00020002 ................ 000390@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 0003A0@ > >  0054006B 000C0002 00400001 00410101 ..A...@.....k.T. 0003B0@ > >  003E0008 00140005 00020013 00350002 ..5...........>. 0003C0@ > >  00090011 0011000C 00020002 00070002 ................ 0003D0@ > >  00020002 00470002 0002000A 00170002 ..........G..... 0003E0@ > >  00020002 00020002 00020002 00190016 ................ 0003F0@ > >  000D0008 00420007 004D0005 00020002 ......M...B..... 000400@ > >  00050004 000C001A 000C000E 000D003D =............... 000410@ > >  00020002 001B0007 00020002 00020002 ................ 000420@ > >  00000000 00000000 0019000B 003E0006 ..>............. 000430@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 000440@ > >  00120002 001E000D 00400001 00810101 ......@......... 000450@ > >  00020002 001D0002 0004002C 002A000C ..*.,........... 000460@ > >  00020026 001B0054 0019000E 00260002 ..&.....T...&... 000470@ > >  00020002 00020035 00020004 00080002 ........5....... 000480@ > >  003E00A7 0074005D 003E0038 0009001F ....8.>.].t..>. 000490@ > >  00310021 00620025 001E003A 004D0019 ..M.:...%.b.!.1. 0004A0@ > >  00020002 00020002 0002007F 00070007 ................ 0004B0@ > >  00320002 00020002 000E004A 004A0011 ..J.J.........2. 0004C0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00390003 00280070 p.(...9......... 0004D0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 0004E0@ > >  000F001B 004C0021 00400001 00C10101 .....@.!.L..... 0004F0@ > >  00020002 000A0002 00020044 00020018 ....D........... 000500@ > >  00310015 00260008 0002002C 003C0002 ..<.,.....&...1. 000510   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:19:54 GMT ( From: "NeedHelp" <eckmant@earthlink.net>. Subject: Re: Backup command / Tape help needed6 Message-ID: <KRCec.4125$hg1.4060@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>  K I tried the first option below without success.  I'm not sure of the syntax16 for record format fixed...... and the convert command.  " The second option looks like this:" A1000:> dismount /nounload mkb400:) A1000:> mount mkb400: /over=id/block=8192 * %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked2 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, 032994 mounted on _A1000$MKB400:$ A1000:> copy mkb400:a11f.bck [] /log2 %COPY-E-READERR, error reading MKB400:[]A11F.BCK;1 -RMS-F-RER, file read errore -SYSTEM-F-PARITY, parity error; %COPY-W-NOTCMPLT, MKB400:[]A11F.BCK;1 not completely copiede A1000:>e      + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in messaget- news:MEXk0BOp10Do@eisner.encompasserve.org... A > In article <5qyec.2935$hg1.25@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "NeedHelp"  <eckmant@earthlink.net> writes:tJ > > Yes the first few records are 80 bytes long.  No, there were no parityL > > errors.  It only required one dump command not two.  The results follow. IoG > > did find the backup command used in the following listing, with thenI > > block=1600 qualifier.  Unfortunately my current configuration accepts 8 > > /block= sizes in the range of 2048 an 65,535 blocks. > >d& > > I'm still unable to read the tape. >r= > Looks good to me.  If it were me, my next move would be to:  >t > $ set mag /rewind mkb400:n > $ copy mkb400: nl: /logm  > $ convert mkb400: tapefile.dat > record > format fixed > size 8192e# > $ backup /list tapefile.dat /save  >K > -or- >d > $ dismount /nounl mkb400:b& > $ mount mkb400: /over=id /block=8192  > $ copy mkb400:a11f.bck [] /log > $ backup /list a11f.bck /savet >lA > The 1600 you see in the dump is the /DENSITY=1600.  Pretty welliG > irrelevant for helical scan media, I'd expect.  Since we have legible - > data we know we don't have a density issue.m >aB > The blocks on tape are 8192 bytes in length.  That's the default? > for BACKUP on tape.  It's exactly what I'd expect to see on a ! > perfectly ordinary backup tape.o >rH > Can you show us the commands used and error messages that are produced@ > when you try to restore this tape?  I'm baffled at this point. >h
 > John Briggsw > >g > >c > > A1000:> dump mkb400: > >r5 > > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80a > >3. > > Block number 1 (00000001), 80 (0050) bytes > >o@ > >  20202020 20203439 39323330 314C4F56 VOL1032994       000000@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000010@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000020@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000030@ > >  33202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                3 000040 > >p > >  > > 5 > > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80i > >f. > > Block number 2 (00000002), 80 (0050) bytes > >h@ > >  20202020 4B43422E 46313141 31524448 HDR1A11F.BCK     000000@ > >  30313030 30343939 32333020 20202020      03299400010 000010@ > >  20383830 34392030 30313030 30313030 001000100 94088  000020@ > >  56434544 30303030 30302038 38303439 94088 000000DECV 000030@ > >  20202020 20202020 50554B43 4142534D MSBACKUP         000040 > >s > > 5 > > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80e > >i. > > Block number 3 (00000003), 80 (0050) bytes > >h@ > >  20323931 38303239 31383046 32524448 HDR2F0819208192  000000@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000010@ > >  20202020 20202020 2020204D 20202020     M            000020@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 30302020   00             000030@ > >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000040 > >n! > >         ***  End of file  ***  > >"5 > > Dump of device MKB400: on 12-APR-2004 07:16:26.80m > > 0 > > Block number 4 (00000004), 8192 (2000) bytes > >c@ > >  00000000 00000001 00010001 04000100 ................ 000000@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000010@ > >  00000000 00002000 EA8A86F2 00010101 ....... ...... 000020@ > >  00000000 0000004B 43422E46 31314108 .A11F.BCK....... 000030@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000040@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000050@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000060@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000070@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000080@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000090@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000A0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000B0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000C0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000D0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000E0@ > >  0CA30000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ............... 0000F0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00010110 ................ 000100@ > >  006F4B43 422E4631 31410001 00080101 ......A11F.BCKo. 000110@ > >  59544953 4E45442F 50554B43 41420002 ..BACKUP/DENSITY 000120@ > >  4F4E4749 2F454741 4D492F30 3036313D =1600/IMAGE/IGNO 000130@ > >  414C2C4B 434F4C52 45544E49 283D4552 RE=(INTERLOCK,LA 000140@ > >  54515F31 31413D54 53494C2F 294C4542 BEL)/LIST=A11_QT 000150@ > >  44524F43 45522F53 494C2E34 395F3130 01_94.LIS/RECORD 000160@ > >  3A304355 4D203A31 31414944 24312420  $1$DIA11: MUC0: 000170@ > >  4E495745 524F4E2F 4B43422E 46313141 A11F.BCK/NOREWIN 000180@ > >  20202020 204D4554 53595300 04000C44 D....SYSTEM      000190@ > >  21CCE000 06000800 01000400 05000420  ............! 0001A0@ > >  56000800 04040000 07000200 97C2CF25 %............V 0001B0@ > >  043A3A30 30303456 5F000900 08352E35 5.5...._V4000::. 0001C0@ > >  30303456 5F000B00 0C0B0000 06000A00 ..........._V400 0001D0@ > >  04352E35 56000C00 043A3043 554D2430 0$MUC0:....V5.5. 0001E0@ > >  0F000200 0A000E00 02000020 00000D00 .... ........... 0001F0@ > >  20202020 20202020 20001000 0C007000 .p.....          000200@ > >  00000000 00000000 01001100 02202020    ............. 000210@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 000200D0 ?............... 000220@ > >  20313141 0015000C 02010014 00020101 ............A11  000230@ > >  4C4C494D 0016000C 20202020 20202020         ....MILL 000240@ > >  46434544 0017000C 20202020 20205245 ER      ....DECF 000250@ > >  00080008 00190004 20204231 31454C49 ILE11B  ........ 000260@ > >  001C0002 FA00001B 00020000 001A0002 ............... 000270@ > >  228C5140 001E0008 0008001D 0002FE00 .?..........@Q." 000280@ > >  00020300 20000107 001F0001 00943564 d5......... .... 000290@ > >  00090023 00020003 00220002 00050021 !.....".....#... 0002A0@ > >  0003BA20 00270004 001DD102 00240004 ..$......'. .. 0002B0@ > >  72102167 00290004 00005608 00280004 ..(..V....).g!.r 0002C0@ > >  00000000 004C0008 000EE935 00430004 ..C.5....L..... 0002D0@ > >  00000000 00000000 004D0008 00000000 ......M......... 0002E0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000001 00580002 ..X............. 0002F0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 000300@ > >  00040003 00020001 00400001 00010101 ......@......... 000310@ > >  0015000C 00010009 00080007 00060005 ................ 000320@ > >  00060007 000A0008 000B0002 0009000E ................ 000330@ > >  00020002 0018001D 00380007 00080010 ......8......... 000340@ > >  00020002 00020002 00020002 00020002 ................ 000350@ > >  0005000B 000A0002 00020003 008D001F ................ 000360@ > >  0002003E 00020073 00D0001F 00020002 ......?.s...>... 000370@ > >  00020002 00020002 00130002 00020002 ................ 000380@ > >  00000000 00000000 00020002 00020002 ................ 000390@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 0003A0@ > >  0054006B 000C0002 00400001 00410101 ..A...@.....k.T. 0003B0@ > >  003E0008 00140005 00020013 00350002 ..5...........>. 0003C0@ > >  00090011 0011000C 00020002 00070002 ................ 0003D0@ > >  00020002 00470002 0002000A 00170002 ..........G..... 0003E0@ > >  00020002 00020002 00020002 00190016 ................ 0003F0@ > >  000D0008 00420007 004D0005 00020002 ......M...B..... 000400@ > >  00050004 000C001A 000C000E 000D003D =............... 000410@ > >  00020002 001B0007 00020002 00020002 ................ 000420@ > >  00000000 00000000 0019000B 003E0006 ..>............. 000430@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 000440@ > >  00120002 001E000D 00400001 00810101 ......@......... 000450@ > >  00020002 001D0002 0004002C 002A000C ..*.,........... 000460@ > >  00020026 001B0054 0019000E 00260002 ..&.....T...&... 000470@ > >  00020002 00020035 00020004 00080002 ........5....... 000480@ > >  003E00A7 0074005D 003E0038 0009001F ....8.>.].t..>. 000490@ > >  00310021 00620025 001E003A 004D0019 ..M.:...%.b.!.1. 0004A0@ > >  00020002 00020002 0002007F 00070007 ................ 0004B0@ > >  00320002 00020002 000E004A 004A0011 ..J.J.........2. 0004C0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00390003 00280070 p.(...9......... 0004D0@ > >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00070090 ................ 0004E0@ > >  000F001B 004C0021 00400001 00C10101 .....@.!.L..... 0004F0@ > >  00020002 000A0002 00020044 00020018 ....D........... 000500@ > >  00310015 00260008 0002002C 003C0002 ..<.,.....&...1. 000510   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:45:07 -05000@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>. Subject: Re: Backup command / Tape help needed6 Message-ID: <407B5433.31EB7BF4@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   NeedHelp wrote:  > M > I tried the first option below without success.  I'm not sure of the syntax08 > for record format fixed...... and the convert command. > $ > The second option looks like this:$ > A1000:> dismount /nounload mkb400:+ > A1000:> mount mkb400: /over=id/block=81925, > %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked4 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, 032994 mounted on _A1000$MKB400:& > A1000:> copy mkb400:a11f.bck [] /log4 > %COPY-E-READERR, error reading MKB400:[]A11F.BCK;1 > -RMS-F-RER, file read error0  > -SYSTEM-F-PARITY, parity error= > %COPY-W-NOTCMPLT, MKB400:[]A11F.BCK;1 not completely copied4	 > A1000:>1   Yecch! That's ugly.4  D Since the DUMPs posted earlier illustrate that the label records areA indeed present and are the right size, I'm wondering if the label0F content might be an issue... (don't have the necessary doc.'s to check it out).  F If not for the labels issue, BACKUP *MIGHT* get past the parity error, and then again it might not.  % Are data recovery services an option?3   -- 6 David J. DachteraD dba DJE Systems5 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:47:17 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>05 Subject: Re: Comments about VMS documentation website48 Message-ID: <5rrk701b4uq1amtthuahc469l7o9ratq2q@4ax.com>  O On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:12:47 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:2  N >Wanted to check out the DEC C documentation. Seems that there is no PDF, so I >have to look at the HTML. >0N >Unfortunatly, the HTML is the "unusable" HP design. When I tried to print it,K >I wasted 20 pages (I killed the job when I realised the text was unusable).7 >since the page was much wider than would fit on paper.. >#J >So, I set out to edit the HTML, first with the Netscape editor, to deleteM >columns that are useless, and setting table attributes such that there is no0 >hardcoded widths. >.I >Unfortunatly, for some reason, the main table would insist on being much2 >wider.  > N >Sop I ended up having to use an editor to try to see why the tables were muchL >wider than the window. Turns out that it was some of the code examples with3 ><pre> tag which had lines that printed quite wide.5 >.K >So as a suggestion, when you generate the HTML, you should ensure that any0F >lines in the <PRE> (code examples) don't span more than 80 characters >0O >Browsers will flow text outside <PRE> tags, but not inside, and where there is N >a <PRE> inside a table, it forces the whole table to widen to accomodate that ><PRE> tag.0  O Wow! You certainly went to some efforts there. I just set the margins smaller &0O tick the box that says 'Fit to Page' on the printer properties. Some things are. much easier to achieve on a PC.0  I >And from a product name, for GOD's sake, keep it as DEC C.  HP should be N >mature enough to keep the original names until VMS inherits HP/Intel compilerR >technology at which point, being a different compiler, they can change the names.  , Would you prefer it to remain as 'Compaq C'?   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:53:48 -04000* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>5 Subject: Re: Comments about VMS documentation website6) Message-ID: <407A7519.A40F8208@istop.com>0   Nigel Barker wrote:.Q > Wow! You certainly went to some efforts there. I just set the margins smaller &0Q > tick the box that says 'Fit to Page' on the printer properties. Some things are0! > much easier to achieve on a PC.0  N I have the "fit to page" option, but found that it behaves not in the expectedH way especially if you have images on a page. In hindsight, I should haveN simply used LYNX to get the page up, print it to text, edit the file to remove6 all the crud and then only print relevant information.  J But it was my first time actually trying to remove the crud from an HP webI site and it is rather hard to figure out what piece prevents a table from K sizing down to the size you want it. (the usual culprit is some wide banner4G image at the top that forces the whole table below to be just as wide)..  . > Would you prefer it to remain as 'Compaq C'?  K Compaq never made a C compiler, so it shoudl never have been "Compaq C". Itc should just remain "DEC C"..   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:12:47 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>1 Subject: Comments about VMS documentation websitey) Message-ID: <407A4F66.D4223663@istop.com>   M Wanted to check out the DEC C documentation. Seems that there is no PDF, so Ib have to look at the HTML.2  M Unfortunatly, the HTML is the "unusable" HP design. When I tried to print it,hJ I wasted 20 pages (I killed the job when I realised the text was unusable)6 since the page was much wider than would fit on paper.  I So, I set out to edit the HTML, first with the Netscape editor, to delete L columns that are useless, and setting table attributes such that there is no hardcoded widths.   H Unfortunatly, for some reason, the main table would insist on being much wider. e  M Sop I ended up having to use an editor to try to see why the tables were much K wider than the window. Turns out that it was some of the code examples withe2 <pre> tag which had lines that printed quite wide.  J So as a suggestion, when you generate the HTML, you should ensure that anyE lines in the <PRE> (code examples) don't span more than 80 characterst  N Browsers will flow text outside <PRE> tags, but not inside, and where there isM a <PRE> inside a table, it forces the whole table to widen to accomodate thati
 <PRE> tag.  H And from a product name, for GOD's sake, keep it as DEC C.  HP should beM mature enough to keep the original names until VMS inherits HP/Intel compiler Q technology at which point, being a different compiler, they can change the names.D   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:25:37 +0000 (UTC)c From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??.) Message-ID: <c5h4a1$872$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>n  V In article <407AE809.E21E471F@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:K >Not sending back a non-delivery notification in case a username is invalidu% >goes against the spirit of the RFCs.a > J >You are much better off detecting SPAM (in which point you can reject the! >message during reception phase).  > K I think the user was asking for rejecting of invalid local users during theoM reception phase which would be just as consistent with the spirit of the RFCse; as detecting SPAM and rejecting the mail during that phase.uH In both cases (apart from when the message is being sent directly from aK client to your system) you just move the responsibility to send the bounce pO back to the intermediate system (usually but not always the central mailhub of c the sender's ISP).  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  L >If you make a mistake and send an important message to Carlie@heche.pee.comO >and you don't get anything back, you assume it was delivered and won't realise V >you sent the offer to purchase VMS to Carlie instead of the real email address Carly.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:04:02 +0000 (UTC)b From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukI Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??b) Message-ID: <c5h6i2$8r3$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>C  a In article <dc5428e3.0404121403.43b48b0@posting.google.com>, bob@jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) writes:2m >Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> wrote in message news:<xpAec.50745$XO7.18044@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>...  >>... I >> With HP TCPIP Services, the short answer is NO and it's a BIG failing.  >> ....  >i9 >  Thanks, Don - I suspected as much, but I was hoping...2 >0G >  There's something here that I don't understand, though.  Imagine, ifAD >you will, me sitting here with my VAX and somebody out there in theG >Internet universe tries to connect to port 25.  No problem - TCPIP for0> >OVMS runs the TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER.EXE program to talk to him. > E >  My end and the other end exchange HELOs and maybe a MAIL FROM, and E >then the other side sends RCPT TO and an address.  Now, if the otherrD >side says something like RCPT TO: <user@somewhere-else.com> and you9 >have relay disabled (and you're nuts if you don't!) then @ >TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER immediately says "551 User not local, RelayG >disabled." and that's the end of it. Obviously TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER has0C >some ability to parse the RCPT TO address, or it couldn't do this.  > A >  My question is, given that TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER already has theiA >ability to parse the email address, why, when the other end says0; >something like RCPT TO: <bogus-user@mydomain.com>, doesn't0G >TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER just immediately say "550 No such user." ??  If it.< >would just do this, then the whole problem would be solved! >.9 >  At first I thought this was just a failing in the OVMS1F >implementation, but I've tried it on other, non-VMS, SMTP servers andA >they work the same way.  What is it about SMTP that I don't know. >here??  >07 Many SMTP servers will if they have enough information.0P However sometimes the SMTP servers you connect to won't have enough information  for security or other reasons.   eg  F Imagine a company with a front end SMTP server in front of the companyJ firewall. It's only job is to accept mail from outside and pass them to anK internal mailhub inside the company firewall. (conversly mail from internal0O clients destined for the outside world will go to the internal mailhub and then.E be passed to the external mailhub and then to the rest of the world)..L The external mailhub may for security reasons not have a full listing of allP the users, it doesn't need that listing to perform it's job - it just passes anyK mail for user@this.company.com to the internal mailhub which does have that2 information.J (Note. Neither the external or internal mailhub would probably have any of+ the user's mail accounts actually on them).=  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >Thanks, >Bob Armstrong   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:33:17 GMT4& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com>I Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail?? > Message-ID: <xpAec.50745$XO7.18044@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>   Bob Armstrong wrote:G > Is there any way to configure the TCPIP SMTP server to simply discard.F > undeliverable mail?  I'm particularly intersted in the case where itB > receives a message for "foo@jfcl.com", where jfcl.com is my realG > domain but "foo" is a bogus user name.  I want it to just discard the0D > message - no bounce messages to Postmaster, and no bounce messages > back to the sender.0 > @ >   The problem, of course, is SPAM.  I get 200-300 emails a dayF > addressed to my domain but with bogus user names, caused by SPAMmersG > forging the return address. If there ever was a real bounce in there,0 > I'd never notice it. > 1 >   BTW, has anybody ported SPAMBAYES to VMS yet?4 >   >   Oh - this is with OVMS v7.3. > 	 > Thanks,  > Bob Armstrong0  F With HP TCPIP Services, the short answer is NO and it's a BIG failing.  H However HP/VMS engineering will have a beta test feature in an upcoming A version. I don't no when it will be out, but the feature will be .H disabled by default. You'll have to turn it on. Also, the solution they E used is not the easy "white list" or "black list" you and I may have 0. wanted. Apparently it's much more complicated.  D In the meantime, I'd suggest you do what I've done: route all those   bogus users to a real one, via a* MAIL> set forw/user=bogus_user1  real_user* MAIL> set forw/user=bogus_user2  real_user* MAIL> set forw/user=bogus_user3  real_user  : Then periodically, just delete all the mail real_user has.A It will have a lot less impact on your operation, then queing up  F messages trying to tell some other bogus user that the address he/she I used is not valid, which, in turn, bounces back a message..., which goes . on for several cycles.   -- 0   Have VMS, Will Travel. Wire paladin, San Francisco0   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:03:38 -0400.* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??.) Message-ID: <407AE809.E21E471F@istop.com>0  J Not sending back a non-delivery notification in case a username is invalid$ goes against the spirit of the RFCs.  I You are much better off detecting SPAM (in which point you can reject the0  message during reception phase).  K If you make a mistake and send an important message to Carlie@heche.pee.com0N and you don't get anything back, you assume it was delivered and won't realiseU you sent the offer to purchase VMS to Carlie instead of the real email address Carly..   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:26:42 GMT4& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com>I Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??.> Message-ID: <mQDec.50825$Yk1.36214@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>   JF Mezei wrote:0L > Not sending back a non-delivery notification in case a username is invalid& > goes against the spirit of the RFCs.  I Not so. You send back "550 NO SUCH USER" in the first phase of accepting 0 a mail request.0  / RFC 2821, section 3.3 Mail Transactions states:0 "...C If accepted, the SMTP server returns a 250 OK reply and stores the 0A forward-path.  If the recipient is known not to be a deliverable  F address, the SMTP server returns a 550 reply, typically with a string H such as "no such user - " and the mailbox name (other circumstances and F reply codes are possible). This step of the procedure can be repeated  any number of times."A   > K > You are much better off detecting SPAM (in which point you can reject the0" > message during reception phase). > M > If you make a mistake and send an important message to Carlie@heche.pee.com<P > and you don't get anything back, you assume it was delivered and won't realiseW > you sent the offer to purchase VMS to Carlie instead of the real email address Carly.o  @ You would get a return from your own outbound SMTP server, like:8 %TCPIP-E-SMTP_UNKHST, remote host unknown, heche.pee.com   -- t   Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:00:01 -0400 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??e) Message-ID: <407B1154.ABA3CFD8@istop.com>"   Don Sykes wrote:J > Not so. You send back "550 NO SUCH USER" in the first phase of accepting > a mail request.a  N Which is the equivalent of sending a non delivery notification. The differenceM is that when you respond during the RCPT TO: phase or even at the very end of H the DATA phase, the responsability rests with the sending SMTP server toK advise the sender of non delivery. If the receiving SMTP server accepts thelD message, and only later discovers the username is invalid, it is its3 responsability to send a non-delivery notification.4  I TCPIP Services has a very primitive receiver which was designed to accept L messages and then pass them to the workhorse (the symbiont in the TCPIP mail	 queues). i  J The receiver has been upgraded to include basic spam features but it needsK much more work now. And from what was said here, there is work in progress,iH but I doubt it will benefit that many people soon since it is for futureL versions whose distribution may be limited (for instance, will it make it to vax ?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:18:43 -0400f* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>I Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??o) Message-ID: <407B15B5.7C6676CE@istop.com>g   Bob Armstrong wrote:A > TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER immediately says "551 User not local, Relay H > disabled." and that's the end of it. Obviously TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER hasD > some ability to parse the RCPT TO address, or it couldn't do this.   Correct.  M However, consider issues of a receiver that receives corporate-wide emails as0J a gateway to the whole intranet consisting of many smtp servers running on different platforms.  ; for instance, smtp.chocolate.com may process mail destined 2 	to chef@pastry.chocolate.com  	to taster@cakes.chocolate.com! 	to postmaster@smtp.chocolate.com0  M The only addres it could validate is the postmaster because it is on the same L node as thereceiver. The RECEIVER.EXE image doesn't have a way to validate a- username on a different node in the intranet.   N So what is needed is a more "proper" corporate-wide directory (LDAP etc) whichF would allow the receiver to perform destination validation right away.  M The receiver woudl also need to be updated to log breakin attempts if someoneDE tries too many combinations of RCPTO TO: (trying to guess usernames).A   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:30:24 GMTs& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com>I Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail?? = Message-ID: <kEFec.50864$oc2.9578@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>0   Bob Armstrong wrote:n > Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com> wrote in message news:<xpAec.50745$XO7.18044@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>... >  >>... H >>With HP TCPIP Services, the short answer is NO and it's a BIG failing. >>.... >  > : >   Thanks, Don - I suspected as much, but I was hoping... > H >   There's something here that I don't understand, though.  Imagine, ifE > you will, me sitting here with my VAX and somebody out there in the H > Internet universe tries to connect to port 25.  No problem - TCPIP for? > OVMS runs the TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER.EXE program to talk to him.  > F >   My end and the other end exchange HELOs and maybe a MAIL FROM, andF > then the other side sends RCPT TO and an address.  Now, if the otherE > side says something like RCPT TO: <user@somewhere-else.com> and you0: > have relay disabled (and you're nuts if you don't!) thenA > TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER immediately says "551 User not local, Relay0H > disabled." and that's the end of it. Obviously TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER hasD > some ability to parse the RCPT TO address, or it couldn't do this. > B >   My question is, given that TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER already has theB > ability to parse the email address, why, when the other end says< > something like RCPT TO: <bogus-user@mydomain.com>, doesn'tH > TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER just immediately say "550 No such user." ??  If it= > would just do this, then the whole problem would be solved!0  C I agree! I guess the thought was, when we do this check we're only .G interested in if the RCPT To is a local domain. If the domain IS local SE pass it along to VMS mail. In my book, this is a poor implementation.0     > : >   At first I thought this was just a failing in the OVMSG > implementation, but I've tried it on other, non-VMS, SMTP servers and B > they work the same way.  What is it about SMTP that I don't know > here??  E If that's true, I'm suprised. It seems like such a trivial matter to 4H provide a white/black list of users at this point and save us all a lot 	 of grief..   -- M   Have VMS, Will Travel0 Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 23:46:40 GMT3& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com>I Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??1= Message-ID: <ATFec.50868$Lh2.2861@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>0   JF Mezei wrote:    > Bob Armstrong wrote: > A >>TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER immediately says "551 User not local, Relay.H >>disabled." and that's the end of it. Obviously TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER hasD >>some ability to parse the RCPT TO address, or it couldn't do this. >  > 
 > Correct. > O > However, consider issues of a receiver that receives corporate-wide emails as L > a gateway to the whole intranet consisting of many smtp servers running on > different platforms. > = > for instance, smtp.chocolate.com may process mail destined   > 	to chef@pastry.chocolate.com0  > 	to taster@cakes.chocolate.com# > 	to postmaster@smtp.chocolate.com. > O > The only addres it could validate is the postmaster because it is on the same0N > node as thereceiver. The RECEIVER.EXE image doesn't have a way to validate a/ > username on a different node in the intranet.2 > P > So what is needed is a more "proper" corporate-wide directory (LDAP etc) whichH > would allow the receiver to perform destination validation right away. > E Yes. But for simple systems like mine and Bob's (not a gateway to an 0H intranet), we wouldn't need any more than a list of good users we could & maintain ourselves. Real simple stuff.  O > The receiver woudl also need to be updated to log breakin attempts if someone0G > tries too many combinations of RCPTO TO: (trying to guess usernames)..  E Again, I would vote for simplest approach. Make the 550 NO SUCH USER .G responses wait 30 seconds or so before responding. While responding to  H real users immediately. It wouldn't stop them, but it would surely slow 
 them down.       -- 0   Have VMS, Will Travels Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 14:50:38 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)Q Subject: Re: Configuring TCPIP SMTP server to ignore undeliverable mail??  Patch!1= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0404131350.4ab5780b@posting.google.com>5  D I imagine most of you have received your patch notifications by now,F but if not please take a look at:  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-151-4 at the OpenVMS patch site, or at E ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/layered_products/alpha/ for the0B kit and notes at the FTP site.  Seems to have that little additionE that allows rejecting mail for nonexistent users, though I've not had0 a chance to try it yet..  ? Of course this is only for TCPIP V5.4 on VMS V7.3 and later (on. Alpha).    Rich Jordan0   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 11:23:15 -07007 From: nigel.guest@partner.commerzbank.com (Nigel Guest)0 Subject: Connect Direct API.= Message-ID: <3c577827.0404131023.30210594@posting.google.com>2  B I have been looking at Connect:Direct as a means to transfer filesE from VMS to other platforms in a controlled manner, where log and txn]E files can be updated in the program that starts the jobs.   It should10 also kick start processes on the other machines.  B The User Interface (via ndmui) isnt a good solution as the programD kicking the job off doesnt really have much of a clue as to what has* happened (unless i have missed something):  E The returned status appears to just indicate success or failure), the0E success/failure message just goes into the CD log file/screen and the8C time (spawn, submit/parse the log file etc) it takes to work around<B all this is going to be unacceptable when we are processing 1'000s files per day.  ? I have had a look at the API's, which appear to offer the rightBD solution, but the info in the user guide is (imho) 'thin', to put itD kindly.   The example is a very limited example and the descriptions+ of individual parameters are missing 'meat'a  F Does anyone have any other examples (C, Basic, Cobol, Pascal etc) thatC they can put up, or send me ?  Preferably using a parameter file tod pass in pnode/snode/ etc etc.K  + If i am on the wrong board, please redirect9   Thanks   Nigel0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:00:29 GMTa/ From: "Duane Smith" <duane.smith@hp-nospam.com>r! Subject: Re: CXX Linker Issue....r0 Message-ID: <NWzec.2868$Ou.421@news.cpqcorp.net>  H You need to use CXXLINK for C++ applications.  This "wrapper" around theG linker knows how to look in the repository for template instantiations.hK Have a look at chapter 1 in the User's Guide which is available on the net.   N http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/cplus/alpha_doc/ugvtoc.html#toc_chapter_1   Duane Smithq HP C++ for OpenVMS  1 "Ananth" <anantha.prabhu@hp.com> wrote in messagee7 news:e0273250.0404120840.69ed93de@posting.google.com...  > Hello,E > While compiling some sources of an application, I am getting lot ofb8 > linker errors. Following is a sample of linker errors, > 9 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXX$RNSTTMCHN55OCLGCLDVS3NR8S79 9 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXX$RNSTTMCHN57OCLGCLDVS1U2U94E 9 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXX$RNSTTMCHN57OCLGCLDVS25VJO9Ik9 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXXL$ASQ13STD106VCTRQ1161AK2ERM 9 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXXL$ASQ13STD64VCTRP14OC0DNRK8Si9 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXXL$ASQ13STD68LST18OCOR2UE7GC119 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXXL$ASQ13STD96VCTRPQ1110GQ3REV.9 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         CXXL$ASQ18RWRWSTD612RWRB1CK8RLQI >1H > Am I missing any libraries which I need to link explicitly? If yes HowF > can I find which are those libraries? I am using GNV environment. Is? > there any way by which I can identfy these Undefined symbols?t >  > Thanks and Regards > Ananth   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:09:20 -0400a* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standardsu) Message-ID: <4079A5E9.5D9D26A5@istop.com>t   Michael Austin wrote:i > ? > I wish that DEC would have actually released the DCL compilerM6 > engineering tinkered with back in the mid-1980's...   N What is the principle behind an image (the compiled DCL program) being able toM invoke another image in the same process ?  Can you use LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL L of "main" or whatever is the entry point of a standard image and then branch3 to it even if the image wasn't linked with /SHARE ?     F Remember that a lot of a DCL procedure are verbs that invoke an image.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:33:15 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards8) Message-ID: <c5ca1i$i2j$1@news.wplus.net>4  K "Michael Austin" <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote in message 6 news:Vbhec.8208$_H2.4407@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...? > I wish that DEC would have actually released the DCL compiler0F > engineering tinkered with back in the mid-1980's...  They had a MVIIG > that would take more that 1/2 hr to boot using the DCL procedures -- 3J > only 5 minutes with the compiled version...  Then again, that was before > Alpha....0 >   G There was a third pary DCL compiler released, I checked into this again2> around 18months ago and the company were no longer selling it.  K They did however say they would get a working copy ( for 7.3-1 as it was at27 the time) going for approx 20k USD, I didn't persue it.    Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:31:51 +02008  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards - Message-ID: <c5gc1v$2acr$1@news.cybercity.dk>.   Alan E. Feldman wrote:E > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in0< > message news:<407AC6FA.1BC5000A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... >> "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:1 >>>KG >>> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in > >>> message news:<4075F5AE.3321BE00@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... >>>> [snip] B >>>> O.k. it isn't - and water is dry, air is wet, solids flow and) >>>> liquids don't, ... See? I CAN learn!. >>>.3 >>> Did you know that everything you know is wrong?. >>B >> According to you, yes. According to my everyday experience, no. >.G > OK. One more thing. Just think about it: Did you know that everything0E > you know is wrong? If you knew that, then you'd be wrong about that E > too, in which case you'd be right about something else, which lends0@ > further credence to the fact that you were wrong to think that > everything you know is wrong.. >.H > IOW, it's impossible to know that everything you know is wrong because> > you'd be right about something and therefore not wrong aboutG > everything in which case you were wrong in the first place!!! Because0G > if you were right about that, it would logically follow that you were E > wrong about that. Logically. Therefore the question makes no sense,4C > unless you can be simultaneously wrong and right about something.3 >1 > Have I made myself clear? :-)T >1 > [...]0 >  > &-)4 > " > P.S. I could be wrong, you know!  / I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.1  
 Dr. Dweeb.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 19:46:46 GMT > From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards0< Message-ID: <Vbhec.8208$_H2.4407@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>  > I wish that DEC would have actually released the DCL compiler E engineering tinkered with back in the mid-1980's...  They had a MVII 0E that would take more that 1/2 hr to boot using the DCL procedures -- 5I only 5 minutes with the compiled version...  Then again, that was before .	 Alpha.....   Michael Austin.2       Didier Morandi wrote:0 > Nom de Plume wrote:0 >  > D >> I do believe that most DCL code should be kept to under 200 lines? >> (basically about five screens (SET TERMINAL/PAGE=43)).  When3F >> reasonable, compilable code is preferred.  However, when there is aA >> product family with multiple facilities that contains many DCL7F >> scripts, it does make sense that a standard is set for each file toH >> ensure maintainability.  Even the smallest DCL script should follow a >> standard for an environment.  >  > H > In case you are interested, I wrote FORMATEUR, a DCL source formatter I > tool which isolates labels, indents loops and other IF THEN ELSE ENDIF 2& > nestings and does some other things. >  > Look:  >  > ---1! > DTL02> @formateur formateur.com2 >  > loading... >  > Cleaning LABELS: > 461 lines read > 411 lines written0 > 3 labels formatted.3 > " > Cleaning IF THEN ELSE ENDIF code > 411 lines loaded > 404 lines written. > 1 IF THEN ELSE ENDIF cleaned.0 > $ > Formatting IF THEN ELSE ENDIF code > 404 lines loaded > 436 lines written0* > 32 THEN, 11 ELSE and 32 ENDIF formatted. > % > Done. Result is in FORMATEUR.DCLDOC0 > ---  > ) > I'll post the source in another thread.. >  > D. >    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Apr 2004 06:25:34 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards2? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-twmrs64KNqv5@dave2_os2.home.ours>2  B On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 06:02:13 UTC, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E.  Feldman) wrote:.   > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<4075F601.B9D96818@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > > Didier Morandi wrote:0 > > > [snip] > > > And in Fortran:. > > > 5 > > >   if (.not. status) call lib$stop(%val(status)). > > * > > Just curious - would FORTRAN choke on: > > 1 > > if (.not.status) call lib$stop(%val(status)) 1 > >  > > ...? (Hi, Alan!) >  > Hi David!0 > H > I like it! I find it to be very readable. Of course, as the other AlanH > has mentioned, it has to start in column 7, or a higher column number, > IIRC.0 > C > It's been a while since I did FORTRAN. But when I did use it, youDG > could also use TAB to "skip over" columns 1-6, so to speak. But doing.? > that would probably make it less portable! I think that was a>( > VAX/FORTRAN feature, but I'm not sure.  C It certainly is a DEC/COMPAQ Fortran feature that applies to Alpha 4B too.. I've never had the opportuniy to try Digital Visual Fortran + (Windaz) but understand that its there too!0  B The real point I wanted to make is that if you've got code that's F liberally spinkled with LIB$, STR$, CLI$ or SYS$ function calls, then F the portability of TAB's is going to be the least of your problems :-)  F Strangely enough, one of our config management group, concerned at theF size of some of the result files our analysis tool produces, asked us F if we could perhaps start using tabs to keep them small but appear theF same. I've a routine that does it from my crosss-assembler days so we F might just do it. (The cross-assembler started out on a pdp-11/60 with< RK05 (later RL01) disks so space was at a bit of a premium.)  . -- 5 Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 08:15:49 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standardsp3 Message-ID: <GyxDqGGmmcSO@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  V In article <4079A5E9.5D9D26A5@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: > Michael Austin wrote:  >>  @ >> I wish that DEC would have actually released the DCL compiler7 >> engineering tinkered with back in the mid-1980's...   > P > What is the principle behind an image (the compiled DCL program) being able toO > invoke another image in the same process ?  Can you use LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL N > of "main" or whatever is the entry point of a standard image and then branch5 > to it even if the image wasn't linked with /SHARE ?1 >  > H > Remember that a lot of a DCL procedure are verbs that invoke an image.  D    A lot of those images simply turn around and call system routinesF    that can be called directly instead.  Many of the commands internal    to DCL also work that way.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:34:25 -0500a@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards 6 Message-ID: <407AC511.524E9ABA@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Alex Daniels wrote:c > M > "Michael Austin" <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote in messagew8 > news:Vbhec.8208$_H2.4407@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...A > > I wish that DEC would have actually released the DCL compiler H > > engineering tinkered with back in the mid-1980's...  They had a MVIIH > > that would take more that 1/2 hr to boot using the DCL procedures --L > > only 5 minutes with the compiled version...  Then again, that was before
 > > Alpha....e > >p > I > There was a third pary DCL compiler released, I checked into this again @ > around 18months ago and the company were no longer selling it. > M > They did however say they would get a working copy ( for 7.3-1 as it was at 9 > the time) going for approx 20k USD, I didn't persue it.s  < I think that was called Channel Islands Software or similar.   It was a good idea, but...  E The result of "compiling" DCL was Fortran source (at the time, one oflD DEC's most expensive compilers, just after COBOL, I think). So, thatH rather killed it right there. Macro/32 output would have produced a muchG more salable product (*EVERY* VMS system shipped with Macro/32, zero(0)y7 with Fortran - you had to purchase Fortran separately).   ? Add to this that the resulting .EXE required a licensed RTL andi4 portability of compiled proc.'s went out the window.  ; So, as value proposition, it represented a negative number.n  E ...and on today's Alphas like GS1280, DCL is quite fast, even complexsC proc.'s with much recursion and re-entry. So, except for reasons ofdF secrecy, the value of such a product today would be extremely limited, IMO.   -- m David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:42:34 -0500o@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standardsh6 Message-ID: <407AC6FA.1BC5000A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<4075F5AE.3321BE00@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>...
 > > [snip]I > > O.k. it isn't - and water is dry, air is wet, solids flow and liquids   > > don't, ... See? I CAN learn! > 1 > Did you know that everything you know is wrong?b  ? According to you, yes. According to my everyday experience, no.p  = Which do *YOU* think holds the greater credibility in my eye?   9 Being contrary for the sake of being contrary tends to beb< counter-productive and leads to (sub-)threads like this one.  F You may wish to consider that other people's experiences and paradigmsF differ from your own, and that if you give respect, you'll receive it.  < Just a couple of suggestions - do with them what you will...   -- X David J. Dachtera, dba DJE Systems, http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:45:38 -0500t@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standardss6 Message-ID: <407AC7B2.F5567F58@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > { > In article <4075F601.B9D96818@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:. > > ) > >Just curious - would FORTRAN choke on:- > >-/ > >if (.not.status) call lib$stop(%val(status))0 > >  > >...? (Hi, Alan!)e > N > I know I'm not the Alan you were talking to, but I happen to know the answer
 > to this: > N > Yes, Fortran would choke on a statement that starts in column 1; columns 1-5K > are reserved for statement numbers, column 6 for continuation characters.h  H Understood. I still have my student Fortran programs on 80-column cards.  L > It wouldn't have a problem with the (.not.status) because those spaces are > optional.f  & That was the actual question... Thanx.   -- i David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 14:47:00 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards 3 Message-ID: <zmKxyLhoYzRZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  n In article <b096a4ee.0404102202.32b367c2@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > H > I like it! I find it to be very readable. Of course, as the other AlanH > has mentioned, it has to start in column 7, or a higher column number, > IIRC.   D    Fortran 90 and later can handle free-form source, with statements    starting in column 1.  C > It's been a while since I did FORTRAN. But when I did use it, youeG > could also use TAB to "skip over" columns 1-6, so to speak. But doingt? > that would probably make it less portable! I think that was ai( > VAX/FORTRAN feature, but I'm not sure.  G    A DEC Fortran extension that almost every other vendor has picked up5C    but ANSI refuses to put in the standard.  Works on VMS, TOPS-xx,u    TENEX, RSX-xxx, RSTS, ...  D    Because they were aiming at VAX users HP, Sun, Microsoft, et. al.C    put almost all VAX Fortran extensions into thier compilers.  VAXsD    Fortran 77 became, and still is, the defacto industry standard asH    IBM FORTRAN IV once was.  If a vendor writes an ANSI compiler without7    those extensions there is very little market for it.a  D    I know of one shop that went directly from IBM FORTRAN IV to HP'sF    f77 on HP-UX, they are now struggling to get thier code though HP'sI    f90 on HP-UX (why I don't know).  An earlier version of same code was cK    ported from IBM FORTRAN IV to to VAX Fortran-77 by one person part time o    in 6 months.e  G > I am somewhat surprised that you can add random spaces as John BriggssE > noted. I guess that explains the FORTRAN spacing in VAXTREK II. (!)l@ > Question: Would it still work if you took out all the spaces?!  C    Other than column alignment and character constants spaces have  H    always been insignificant in Fortran (GO TO or GOTO or G OTO, ... areF    all the same).  There were some proposals to have some significant B    spaces for some uses but I don't think they ever got picked up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:02:10 -0400,* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards:( Message-ID: <407AF5BD.DD25DBD@istop.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:I >    A DEC Fortran extension that almost every other vendor has picked up0E >    but ANSI refuses to put in the standard.  Works on VMS, TOPS-xx,D >    TENEX, RSX-xxx, RSTS, ...  C VAX COBOL was also that way allowing loose formatting and lowercase>M characters. And it had extensions with regards to indexed files (unfortunatlyfI some of them were removed at some point, such as the ability to create aniJ indexed file as you opened it for i/o (Cobol rules stipulated it had to be opened for output only).   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 19:29:53 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards_= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0404121829.3c09c371@posting.google.com>e  ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<407AC6FA.1BC5000A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > >  > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<4075F5AE.3321BE00@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > > > [snip]K > > > O.k. it isn't - and water is dry, air is wet, solids flow and liquidsa" > > > don't, ... See? I CAN learn! > > 3 > > Did you know that everything you know is wrong?, > A > According to you, yes. According to my everyday experience, no.   E OK. One more thing. Just think about it: Did you know that everythingoC you know is wrong? If you knew that, then you'd be wrong about thatlC too, in which case you'd be right about something else, which lendsh> further credence to the fact that you were wrong to think that everything you know is wrong.i  F IOW, it's impossible to know that everything you know is wrong because< you'd be right about something and therefore not wrong aboutE everything in which case you were wrong in the first place!!! Because0E if you were right about that, it would logically follow that you werenC wrong about that. Logically. Therefore the question makes no sense, A unless you can be simultaneously wrong and right about something.s   Have I made myself clear? :-)o   [...]d   &-)h    P.S. I could be wrong, you know!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:07:34 GMTt* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: DEC Colorwriter 1000 diskettesl5 Message-ID: <120420041051449516%paul.anderson@hp.com>m  E In article <bf98c417.0404120441.45fdec0c@posting.google.com>, William,+ Webb <williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com> wrote:   ; > I have been unable to turn up any diskette images online.   D Amazingly, I have the contents of the floppies online.  Send me mail and I'll e-mail them to you.  ; Our motto for this printer:  "50 cents a page, every page".n   Paul   -- i  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 06:02:15 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>l+ Subject: Re: DHCPd - TCPware 5.6-1 questionT9 Message-ID: <GUOec.5940$2Z6.499226@news20.bellglobal.com>D  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message3 news:B_Vcc.6973$BF2.770194@news20.bellglobal.com...  > re: TCPware 5.6-1  >sH > Is their a built in limit to the number of addresses this product willC > support irregardless of tuning? I need to support 40 subnets with M > approximately 2000 addresses each but can only get the server to support 24 M > subnets (~ 48K addresses). When I add the 25th subnet the server repeatedlyaL > crashes with an error 292 then restarts. I've increased sysgen parameters:L > NPAGEDYN, NPAGEVIR, WSMAX. I've added physical memory to the Alpha. I haveJ > given ridiculously large quotas (Pgflquo, Bytlm, Wsquo) to the necessary > users in UAF. Any thoughts?  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/o: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >a
 The solution:a  H Edit file 'tcpware:dhcp_control.com' and locate the string "/PAGE_FILE =L 65536". Change this to a larger value like 655360 and it will work (providedL the system has been tuned properly and a sufficiently large page file exists with the necessary free space).l  6 Thanks to tech support at Process Software Corporation  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,s Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 07:46:08 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org> Subject: Re: Finding the Number of users logged on ever 15 min3 Message-ID: <jqG+3aDcvNgC@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  a In article <o9he70tlbg5qlpf3jcbqvuv2sk6cmak9rc@4ax.com>, G Henry <newsgroup@gnshenry.com> writes:h > Alls > F > I am tring to get the number of interactive users that are logged onG > to our VMS 7.2-1 system every 15 min so I can put together some trendS > data on our system.l > F > I cannot seem to find anywhere that I can get total users except the > sho users command output.  4  A If you're after maximum efficiency, you could use something like::  A $	SYS$GL_IJOBCNT = %x84D06508	! Use $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM to determinee> $	USERS = F$CVUI ( 0, 32, F$FAO ( "!AD", 4, SYS$GL_IJOBCNT ) )  F > We have tried several things and the only thing we have been able to > come up with is: >  > ----usercount.com -----t( > $ pipe show users | search sys$input -@ >   users |(read sys$input uu ; write sys$output f$time(),"  ",-= >   f$edit(f$element(1,"=",f$element(0,",",uu)),"COLLAPSE") )'  A One standard trick for "exporting" a value out of a PIPE sequenceo# is to use a job logical name.  e.g.a  . $ pipe show users | search sys$Input users | -+   ( read sys$pipe uu ; define /job uu &uu )1
 $ show log uu6X    "UU" = "    Total number of users = 30,  number of processes = 40" (LNM$JOB_81A2F6C0)   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:23:32 -0500g@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>/ Subject: Re: For Sale BA356+PM+Disks+SCSI cablea6 Message-ID: <407B4F24.3F907FEF@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>  
 Cor wrote: >  > For Sale:h5 > 2x BA356 with Powersupply and PM (200 Euro a piece)o" > 18 Gb disks 7x (95 Euro a piece) > 9 GB 6x (75 Euro a piece)v  H You've probably had a nibble or two, but I'm curious. You mention Euros,, so I assume you're not in the U.S., correct?  A I'm looking for RZ29B-VA or RZ40-VA, if anyone has any to sell...    -- h David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:21:36 -0400t' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>c< Subject: Re: How to call C function from Alpha assembly code1 Message-ID: <M-ydnTCW2tnORubd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>'   Kannan Viswanathan wrote:m   >Hi, d >vF >We have a requirement to write an  Alpha assembly code for VMS , withB >in which it has make a call to to an external "C" funtion. I willE >greatly appreciate , if you can provide some pointers (or examples )h >about how to do this. >  I think this will help a lot:    Tru64 Alpha:h http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/xpcom/reflect/xptcall/src/md/unix/xptcinvoke_asm_osf1_alpha.s#72   OpenVMS Alpha:k http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/xpcom/reflect/xptcall/src/md/unix/xptcinvoke_asm_openvms_alpha.s#92i   Colin.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:53:54 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)i< Subject: Re: How to call C function from Alpha assembly code1 Message-ID: <64yec.2847$gs.1523@news.cpqcorp.net>   z In article <595d0879.0404091346.2a077a73@posting.google.com>, kannan.s.viswanathan@oracle.com (Kannan Viswanathan) writes:  F :We have a requirement to write an  Alpha assembly code for VMS , with< :in which it has make a call to to an external "C" funtion.   D   If you need to program in mixed languages, you will need to becomeF   familiar with the OpenVMS calling standard, the modular programming H   and -- to see how existing calls are implemented by directly examiningA   the stack and the argument passing -- the debugger manual.  ThevE   lattermost manual and technique is usually only needed for the moremB   complex of argument passing techniques available.  The other two!   manuals, you will want to read.t  L :I will greatly appreciate , if you can provide some pointers (or examples ) :about how to do this.  E   See the calling standard and modular procedures manuals as a start, E   and see the C RTL manual for details of the CRTL initialization RTLuD   call, if there is not a C main program involved.  (The call to theE   C RTL initialization is needed to ready the RTL for use from images D   that do not have a C main() routine; hidden behind the compilationD   of a module with a main() call is code that initializes the C RTL)  C :Here is the code segment on Tru-64 which we are trying to port for  :VMS.c  C   What's the code doing?  Messing about with the stack is somethingd@   that is mildly hazardous and slightly unusual and not usually E   particularly portable -- I'm reading much into the code, of course,oE   based on substrings within the symbol names.  (I don't particularlytC   see a C RTL entrypoint or C standard library routine name that I h   recognize here, either.)  	 :        s6 :        ldq     $27, seoastk_bottom_in($gp)!literal!2; :        jsr     $26, ($27), seoastk_bottom_in!lituse_jsr!2r  B   If you simply want an example of calling a C function from AlphaD   assembler, well, code up and use a C function that calls the C RTLE   routine, and look at the machine code listings that can be providedr   by the C compiler.    I   Do realize that large tracts of this area are not considered supported,PF   and -- depending on exactly what you are doing, and how -- the Alpha=   assembly code required is subject to change without notice.n    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 03:09:15 GMT * From: G Henry <newsgroup@gnshenry.spamcom>/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during installe8 Message-ID: <tm1k709p6tc6b0efruhnt643s0sq9qq5aq@4ax.com>  # I had the SAME problem on a PWS600ae  E 1- CHeck the FAQ  If you have the intel chip set you will not be able  to boot to an IDE CDROM Driver  E 2- You need to get a SCSI CDROM and put it on a compatible SCSI card.a7 Chain it off the same card as you SCSI disks to be safed  C 3- you will NEED to get a SCSI cdrom that can can accept a 512Kbyter block like the Toshiba XM-6201B   5 If you do all of the above it will work just fine... b   Gary    D On 11 Apr 2004 07:17:48 -0700, jfragemann@hotmail.com (J. Fragemann) wrote:   >Hi, > E >I have an Alphaserver 400 4/233. I want to learn something new, so IE= >am trying to install OpenVMS 7.3- 1 from Montagar instead ofu >installing WNT. > 3 >I've upgraded its firmware to V7.0-9, available ataD >http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/, (can be found under >"Firmware Not on CD").e >P >I use the u >@ >boot -flags 0,0 dka400  >IE >command to boot the system. OpenVMS then boots up but then my systemo >halts. It says: >n >eD >**** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.3-1    -  BUGCHECK **** >n= >** Bugcheck code = 0000036C: PROCGONE, Process not in system < >** Crash CPU: 00    Primary CPU: 00   Active CPUs: 00000001 >** Current Process = SYSINITo >** Current PSB ID = 00000001  >** Image Name = >i4 >**** Error log buffers not dumped to SYS$ERRLOG.DMP2 >**** Canceled mempry dump, no dump file available >   >       SYSTEM SHUTDOWN COMPLETE >b
 >halted CPU 0  >halt code = 5 >HALT instruction executed >PC = ffffffff800cb884 >>>> >i >lF >Now, what's going on here?  I'm a novice on OpenVMS, so help would be >greatly appreciated.f( >How do i get on with the installation?? >l >Thanks, >Jrgen    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:24:49 GMTo# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)o/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during installi1 Message-ID: <5xyec.2855$gs.2240@news.cpqcorp.net>i  b In article <c5cqlm$4fq$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:0 :"J. Fragemann" <jfragemann@hotmail.com> writes: :aI :>Can this in any way be related to the fact that I use a generic toshibao	 :>CD-ROM?S  C   Unclear.  Certainly quite possible.  As I've mentioned elsewhere,uG   various of the Plextor PlexWriter SCSI CD-R/RW devices have been seeneF   to work (though unsupported), and the RRD-series SCSI CD-ROM devicesE   are expected to work (and are also obviously considered supported).o  D   Various folks reference problems with unsupported Alpha platforms G   attempting to bootstrap ATAPI (not SCSI) CD devices via the Intel SIOtG   chipset, and -- while that's certainly true -- it is not particularly 8   related to a SCSI bootstrap via an NCR SCSI interface.  I :It could be.  It used to be that VMS could only use CDROMs with 512 bytee5 :sectors, while CDROMs for PCs use 2048 byte sectors.s :eG :They *may* have changed the scsi driver so that this is no longer true  :by 7.3-1 but I am uncertain.e  H   The SCSI DKDRIVER driver stack requires CD devices with 512-byte blockG   support -- I had a little "fun" resetting one SCSI device back to itsaF   native 2048-byte blocking on SCSI after DKDRIVER switched it over toG   512-byte blocking, but I digress.  The ATAPI DQDRIVER driver utilizesi   2048-byte blocking.   I   AFAIK, the discussion in the OpenVMS FAQ is and will remain correct fordI   the immediate future; I am aware of no plans to provide 2048-byte block F   support for SCSI CD-ROM devices.  (SCSI CD capabilities are somewhatE   rare, obviously -- the vast majority of CD or DVD devices available C   tend to target connections other than SCSI.  There are ATAPI-SCSIpE   bus adapters around, however I've not personally tried one of theser   add-on adapters.)   I :Anyway, does the crash dump display the contents of R0?  If so, post thee1 :content here, that'll give a clue what happened.g  F   The PROCGONE bugcheck tries to return additional information via R0.   This is usually key.  F   If not the CD device and its hardware capabilities, the next obviousC   candidate for causing the PROCGONE is a system parameter setting.t    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqrN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:24:06 -04007, From: "KA-524" <an_other@somewhere_else.com>/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during installs3 Message-ID: <a9Bec.25438$kc2.369602@nnrp1.uunet.ca>c  L I had the identical symptom on a 400 4/233 under 7.3-1, when I had attemptedL to attach an HP T4000 tape drive that was lying around.  A retry of the bootI would (normally) go successfully, but OpenVMS didn't know what to do withrK the T4000.  I'm guessing that VMS was attempting to load a driver it didn'toA have (?)  Once the tape was disconnected, all returned to normal.m   --F The preceding opinions are those of the writer, and don't ever seem to represent those of his employer     8 "J. Fragemann" <jfragemann@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:d9fe5cb4.0404120437.59a19f40@posting.google.com..., > Hi, thanks for your reply ...t >kI > > 1- CHeck the FAQ  If you have the intel chip set you will not be ables! > > to boot to an IDE CDROM Drivee >dE > My TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-3701TA is SCSI right? Otherwise it wouldn't beh > able to fit on the cable ... >'I > > 2- You need to get a SCSI CDROM and put it on a compatible SCSI card.e; > > Chain it off the same card as you SCSI disks to be safeo >aD > I'll try with an original SCSI CDROM, the type which came with the	 > system., > G > > 3- you will NEED to get a SCSI cdrom that can can accept a 512Kbytec# > > block like the Toshiba XM-6201B 8 > > If you do all of the above it will work just fine... >-C > Thanks Gary, I hope so ... So you are sure this is related to the 	 > CDROM??h >- > Jrgen   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:32:38 +0000 (UTC)r6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during installo0 Message-ID: <newscache$aug4wh$25n$1@news.sil.at>  k In article <d9fe5cb4.0404110617.21572142@posting.google.com>, jfragemann@hotmail.com (J. Fragemann) writes:mE >I have an Alphaserver 400 4/233. I want to learn something new, so I+= >am trying to install OpenVMS 7.3- 1 from Montagar instead ofg >installing WNT.   Congratulations.  3 >I've upgraded its firmware to V7.0-9, available ateD >http://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/, (can be found under >"Firmware Not on CD").k   Which is ok.   >I use the M >  >boot -flags 0,0 dka400C  + You boot from SCSI, probably an SCSI CD-ROMTE I don't know an AlphaServer 400, but the AlphaStation 200 and at thisC/ time an IDE CD-ROM was quite uncommon at DEC...3  E >command to boot the system. OpenVMS then boots up but then my systemC >halts. It says: >DD >**** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.3-1    -  BUGCHECK **** > = >** Bugcheck code = 0000036C: PROCGONE, Process not in systemL  J I had funny things happen with booting VMS from CD (most fun with IDE, but some fun also with SCSI).w  I eg. I had problems with some older SCSI CD-ROM which weren't able to boothN (but able to read from after VMS booted !!!) from newer CDs (mainly selfburnedI copies) because of (most likely) media/reflection problems. Are you using4I an original CD or a copy ? If it is a copy, can you burn another one fromD@ another brand ? Do you have access to other SCSI CD-ROM drives ?  K This could be situation where a VMS professional gets into a sweat, too ;-)e  F >Now, what's going on here?  I'm a novice on OpenVMS, so help would be >greatly appreciated.e( >How do i get on with the installation??  H Have a look into the VMS installation manual. There are other methods ofL booting VMS (namely booting from an InfoServer and booting from a VMSclusterA bootserver) which _might_ be more appropriate for your situation.   4 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/doc/os731_index.html4 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/doc/os732_index.html   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER1% Network and OpenVMS system specialistP E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:24:59 +0200e9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>g/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3-1 halts during installe' Message-ID: <407C5AAB.F9C0B791@aaa.com>i    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  J > Have a look into the VMS installation manual. There are other methods ofN > booting VMS (namely booting from an InfoServer and booting from a VMSclusterC > bootserver) which _might_ be more appropriate for your situation.e  = I have a copy of the VMS 7.3-1 dist CD on a StorageWorks disko; and boots from that when needed. Much faster then the CD...   	 Jan-Erik.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:29:03 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>   Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?0 Message-ID: <c5gbsv$1n7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c517q4$3i7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > F >>Sun and MS still expect to compete, that hasn't changed. What has is@ >>the tone and of course MS support for Java and Sun's access to( >>MS's IP all of which are a good thing. >> >  > G >    Billy has a habit of buying up companies that win lawsuits againstaF >    him.  Sun has been in financial trouble ever since the .com bomb.B >    Maybe all those Solaris users out there will be "upgraded" to> >    the security, reliability, and useability of MS products. >   & MS hasn't bought AOL, Real or Sun yet.  , >    Meanwhile VMS just keeps on keeping on. >   & As does Solaris or hadn't you noticed.   Regardso Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:31:25 +0100tO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>   Subject: Re: OpenVMS for POWER!?0 Message-ID: <c5gc1d$1n7$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <c53msd$10i$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > - >>So basically you cannot support your point.y >># >>Since you cannot my point stands.T >>8 >>Or did you think that your word on the subject carries? >>much weight given your previous less than convincing attempts  >>at financial analysis. >  > D >    Oh right.  Just guess who's word carries weight on comp.os.vms. >  >    LOL >   # And would you be one of the judges.-  * I will leave you to decide how ironic that	 would be.      Regardsi Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:36:29 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>w- Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer servicel8 Message-ID: <mffn705c6han8bv0sjfl76qujn79vg2395@4ax.com>  K On 12 Apr 2004 14:55:58 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bobt Koehler) wrote:t  H >   IIRC US English got ZEE from English English a long time back.  ThenJ >   the English changed to ZED to be compatable with the French.  I don't I >   know if the monarch ever made note.  That is, I understand there is a H >   concept of "the Queen's Engligh", but is there a "Queen's alphabet"?  O I doubt that we changed to conform to the French. More than half our vocabularyoP is derived from French in any case although not pronunciation of most letters ofO the alphabet. ZED is probably an exception. K7 is French shorthand for an audio M or video cassette perhaps non-French speakers would care to hazard a guess ata the derivation.r   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurt   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 07:43:48 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e- Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service 3 Message-ID: <1gKpUcfeS+Y2@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <00A30418.640FFE9C@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:e > O > But the OED of 1882 said of z "The name . . . given to the last letter of the G > alphabet . . . in New England is always zee; in the South it is zed.", >   D    In the 19th century the south had a bad habit of sticking closer H    to England than the north.  Probably came from the fact that they hadB    so much trade with England.  They may have picked up ZED, they D    certainly picked up an unmistakable accent based on patterns the     English soon abandoned.  <    Meanwhile most American speaking habits were spawned from=    Connecticut, where one of the first American grammar booksdB    was written, but migrated to the mid-west, as any national news    anchor can tell you.   B    Thus the last letter is firmly entrenched as ZEE and we have noA    desire to sound like a bunch of Europeans; English, French, or(
    otherwize.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:07:03 GMTo! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> - Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer servicel8 Message-ID: <hill70t0s8dpvtfejd8kf0sv2kcni7pvlj@4ax.com>  O On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:16:04 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:u  : >that many english people actually say ZED instead of ZEE.  M I think all non-US English speakers regard the last letter of the alphabet assO ZED, it's the same in other languages too. The US is also the only country thatsO persists in using those confusing backwards dates. I'm sorry but 9/11 for me isr& the date of my birthday in November:-)   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurr   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 14:55:58 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u- Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer serviceI3 Message-ID: <rmMJby+sqzmy@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  \ In article <hill70t0s8dpvtfejd8kf0sv2kcni7pvlj@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes: > O > I think all non-US English speakers regard the last letter of the alphabet asiQ > ZED, it's the same in other languages too. The US is also the only country that Q > persists in using those confusing backwards dates. I'm sorry but 9/11 for me isw( > the date of my birthday in November:-)  G    IIRC US English got ZEE from English English a long time back.  Then I    the English changed to ZED to be compatable with the French.  I don't -H    know if the monarch ever made note.  That is, I understand there is aG    concept of "the Queen's Engligh", but is there a "Queen's alphabet"?D  A    Meanwhile I'll stick with 11-SEP-2001, which everyone on c.o.v9    understands.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:13:20 GMT>L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")- Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service 6 Message-ID: <00A30418.640FFE9C@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  q In article <rmMJby+sqzmy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:f] >In article <hill70t0s8dpvtfejd8kf0sv2kcni7pvlj@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:  >>  P >> I think all non-US English speakers regard the last letter of the alphabet asR >> ZED, it's the same in other languages too. The US is also the only country thatR >> persists in using those confusing backwards dates. I'm sorry but 9/11 for me is) >> the date of my birthday in November:-)- >-H >   IIRC US English got ZEE from English English a long time back.  ThenJ >   the English changed to ZED to be compatable with the French.  I don't I >   know if the monarch ever made note.  That is, I understand there is a H >   concept of "the Queen's Engligh", but is there a "Queen's alphabet"?  O I think maybe you're thinking there was more standardization in letter-naming aoM few hundred years ago than there in fact was.  Some letters had more than onenM pronounced name in common use; "Z" was pronounced "Izzard". (pause to google;uP quotes below are from http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000707)  O From Johnson's 1755 dictionary, for example, we have: "Z . . . [Name] zed, more , commonly izzard or uzzard, that is, shard."   O But US usage seems to have diverged post-Revolution, and not diverged fully. InsG 1828, Noah Webster's dictionary (which was, I've seen in other sources,rN strongly prescriptive  rather than descriptive, promulgating spelling reforms)& said:  "Z . . . It is pronounced zee."  M But the OED of 1882 said of z "The name . . . given to the last letter of thegE alphabet . . . in New England is always zee; in the South it is zed."m   >sB >   Meanwhile I'll stick with 11-SEP-2001, which everyone on c.o.v >   understands.   Fair enough.   -- Alan  -- sO ===============================================================================-0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056mM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025aO ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:45:25 -0400s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>- Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service ) Message-ID: <407AFFDE.6DF5B511@istop.com>/   Bob Koehler wrote:I >    IIRC US English got ZEE from English English a long time back.  Then J >    the English changed to ZED to be compatable with the French.  I don'tJ >    know if the monarch ever made note.  That is, I understand there is aI >    concept of "the Queen's Engligh", but is there a "Queen's alphabet"?e  I This isn't the issue. The issue is of employees answering the phone beingSD educated enough to understand the language variations throughout theL geographical regions they are handling. So if some comany centralises a callN centre in the USA, then the employees in the USA should be told that they willT get customers who don't have american accent/english and will say things like "ZED".  H The other issue is the ability of the customer to understand the supportL person. If your call centre is located somewhere where there is a very thickK accent, then your customers will have problems understand what your supportsA person says, even if the support person understands the customer.r  K In Canada, many call centres were located in Moncton, New Brusnwick becauseeL the population there is fluently bilingual, and while their french does haveJ an accadian accent, it is still intelligible. And you won't find many callJ centres in Newfoundland or Cape Breton due to the very thick accent there.  N Also, some US corporations have done a very good job with their north americanI call centres. For instance with American Airlines, calls coming in from a.I qubec (or perhaps even all canadian) area codes are sent to a voice mailtL portion that offers french/english menus and leads to bilingual staff in theL USA. I would assume that they would have similar logic for calls coming from hispanic area codes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:14:25 +0200   From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>6 Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon- Message-ID: <c5g7go$26cn$1@news.cybercity.dk>o   Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Folks, >cH > The Dweeb has purchased some books at Amazon.co.uk, and since I am VAT@ > registered, I should not have to pay VAT on these professional
 > volumes. >o > $ SET VENT/ITEM=SPLEEN/ONu >'E > The story thus far is that I have had three boilerplate cut & pasteiF > emails back, each promising to get it right (one prior to shipping &D > billing, one prior to billing, one after shipping) and without anyD > noticable effect. Amazon owe me the VAT that they have incorrectly7 > debited my VISA card, and the Dweeb is getting irate.r > : > So, to the following 3 people at amazon customer support >: > Achint Kishore > Saurabh Sehgal
 > Sankhya DeyR >iD > in whatever 3rd world country in which you happen to reside, a bigC > rasberry to you.  Two of you have failed miserably, while the 3rd D > (you know who you are) has the unique opportunity to get it right. >l > $ SET VENT/OFF >i > Dr, Dweebt   The news thus far,  H In the ongoing saga, we can now add Nikhil Mangla to the list of support' personel with whom I have communicated.c  L This induhvidual emailed me, giving me a 5GBP voucher (something I seriouslyI doubt I will need after this exercise) and claimed that a refund had been J submitted, dated 4-Apr-04.  A confirmation email (unsigned) that it had inH fact been submitted dated 7-Apr-04 was received.  As of today 13-Apr-04,* nothing has appeared on my bank statement.  I Since VISA charges are normally processed within hours, I must view these, last 2 emails with scepticism.  K It is interesting to note that support emails land on different desks.  OneaH would have thought assigning a case individual would be a better model -H after all, the order number is part of the original submission form - an! obvious key for case  processing.t  6 Anyway, I continue my efforts to get my 20 squid back.  	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 08:10:28 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: pasteboardid,helplineid,keyid,titleid,virtualcnt 3 Message-ID: <Ii7SV41+Xs5a@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  e In article <ndqe70t169vl3pfmj0nndsa9fa5b6arpde@4ax.com>, tutor <tutor_removespam_@cfl.rr.com> writes:  > Ok, symbols.6 > Makes sense, because when I LINK the main c program, > the error reads: >    %link-I-udfsym,     keyid,r) >    %line-I-udfsym,     helplineid,.....h   > E > My guess is that these symbols are supposed to be global - and thusn > picked up in the link. G  D    They don't look like symbols that are "built-in" to VMS.  Most ofE    those contain $.  Most of those which don't were in the old VAX C n7    library and the above don't look like parts of that.-  4    I think your missing a layer of application code.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:03:48 GMTs! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>>L Subject: Re: PBXGK-BB (ELSA GLoria Synergy, 4D10T (?)) DECwindows colormaps?8 Message-ID: <0kvl70dfbl548f4a7b6jl68ddmtrhluei3@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:04:47 -0500 (CDT), sms@antinode.org wrote:   " >From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> >eQ >> If you are lucky a generic ATI RAdeon 7500 PCI card designed for PCs will workeQ >> just fine & does pretty decent 3D if you can still find the PCI version. ThereyQ >> is of course a special sanctioned & supported version of this card for VMS butdK >> if you are on a budget I bought one a couple of months ago for 60 Euros.2 >rE >   Still a bit pricy by my standards, but not outrageous.  I thoughtuH >that the ATI card was in the same boat as the 3DLabs OXYGEN VX1, namelyC >supported only on EV6 (and up), not my lowly EV5 PWS.  (I actuallyAI >invested in one of these for my now-dead XP1000, freeing up an ELSA so In+ >could get into trouble with it elsewhere.)  >vC >   Could an ATI Radeon 7500 (PCI) be my ticket to bliss on my PWS?g  M Sorry, I'd forgotten. You are correct they don't work in pre-EV6 machines the H Radeon software is actually built with /architecture=EV6, so it contains7 instructions that aren't supported on pre-EV6 machines.r  P I tried the Radeon 7500 in an Alphastation 500 & it didn't work so I put it into! a DS10 where it does a great job.g   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 11:04:13 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)% Subject: POP3 email timestamp problemr= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0404131004.6b302f60@posting.google.com>g  C OpenVMS V7.3-2 (Update V1, SYS V2, PCSI V1, Manage V1, DCL V1) withuC TCPIP V5.4 and DECnet Phase IV (so no DTSS) on a DS15.  This systemn7 was installed in late March and has been running well. nF SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM was run upon configuration.  This alphaE is (among other things) the central mail server for a small business,eA with clients on PCs running outhouse express (stock versions withaC Win2K and WinXP, but updated as security requires).  The system wasdE NOT set to do automatic DST changes, and had the DAYLIGHT_SAVINGS.COM-; routine run to queue a time change at the appropriate time.d  @ Since the time change (which worked) timestamps on mail sent andC received from the PCs (which also changed time correctly) is off byaE two hours (early).  Mail received on the Alpha and read locally showsbD the correct time.  The PCs are in the correct (central CDT) timezone" and show the correct time locally.  D We're in the central timezone.  Offset when daylight savings time is7 active should be -05:00 (standard time is -06:00).  TherC SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL logical showed the expected, but no other  *timezone* logicals were set.-  & "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "-18000"  F The POP and SMTP services were restarted, but that did not correct theF problem.  I cannot reboot this system for a while; I hope that doesn't end up being required.  > I reran the SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP procedure and made sureE everything was set up.  Upon exiting the additional timezone logicals.	 were set:C  &   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING" = "1"(   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "-18000"   "SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME" = "CDT"o7   "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "CST6CDT5,M4.1.0/02,M10.5.0/02"t  A We restarted the POP server again (a faint hope that it reads the D differential on startup), but we're still getting the same problem. E Mail time on the Alpha from a terminal is correct, but once sent to an PC, its shown as 2 hours early.R  @ Any thoughts?  Google and DSNlink searches have been unhelpful. 	 Thanks...l   Rich CCSP   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:23:13 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>a Subject: Re: Postscriptw9 Message-ID: <c5hc21$1l85g$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>k  & On 2004-04-12 21:55, "JF Mezei" wrote:   > Michael Unger wrote: >  > [...]o > I >> And it still doesn't explain why the PDF documents aren't available oni >> the web.  > H > In fairness, they are available for VMS operating system, and are/were > available for TCPIP services.n >  > [...]   G The comment on "PDF not available on the web" was *purely* with respectRH to the DEC/Q/HP C compiler -- I *do* know of the OS documentation and of/ the documentation of a lot of layered products.-   Michael2   -- 0; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.:5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:29:18 -0400q, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> Subject: Re: Postscripts, Message-ID: <407c0754$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  J The C and C++ docs haven't been updated in awhile. I am assuming that whenG a new version of them comes out that my DOC contact will create the PDFn versions  L At the time a lot of the first versions of some of these docs were posted on the webfC there was a 'war' over NOT using or having PDF versions mostly from	 feedbacks at( DECUS (et al), comp.os.vms, surveys etc.  K I think a lot of us have mellowed over the years and can agree in some forme thatC there are some things that windows does better. Not a lot but some.u  ; That's why there are pdf versions of documents created now.   J BUT since HP is a printer company you will find a 'printable version' linkJ on the bottom of every page which does a pretty good version of a page for	 printing.d  J There are some tables etc in some of the docs that go outside the margins. That's because: the HTML versions weren't developed with printing in mind.  H I don't spend a lot of time trying to futz these pages to fit inside the
 print margins3I cause it's often a loosing battle (as soon as I get the page looking good-
 someone comes- out with an updated version).4  H so all I do is slap headers/trailers on the files and hope for the best.  I You can send mail to the openvms docs email address openvmsdocs at hp dot2 com  ifF! you want to get to the doc group.t   -warreno  J > > And it still doesn't explain why the PDF documents aren't available on > > the web. > >c >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:55:14 -0400m* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Postscriptr) Message-ID: <407AF41E.2080ECD3@istop.com>,   Michael Unger wrote:C > Agreed. But as far as I know Adobe's "distiller" uses compressiony > (ZIP-like) for the contents   N There are 2 compressions used for PDF. First, the postscript code is convertedJ to tags, and secondly, GZIP is used. More importantly, the PDF writer alsoK executes commands that are essentially NOOP for postscript printers but addeF "richness" to PDF documents (such as table of contents, hotspots etc).  D This richness is what is important because it can give PDF documents; functionality that rivals BOOKREADER format *if done well*.x  K Also, where PDF can save a lot of space is with images. It can downsample aeM 600dpi image down to 72dpi for on-screen display for instance, as well as use W a more efficient encoding (converting uncompressed TIFF to a jpeg format for instance)./  H > And it still doesn't explain why the PDF documents aren't available on
 > the web.  F In fairness, they are available for VMS operating system, and are/were available for TCPIP services.-  J I find the HTML rather useless because you cannot search in it, you cannotK easily print it (for instance, a single HTML document may be 20 pages long,gF but you have no way of knowing on which page the paragraph you need is located). With PDF you can.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:31:59 GMTW# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)hK Subject: Re: Postscript (was: Re: Comments about VMS documentation website)l0 Message-ID: <zgBec.2886$XI.775@news.cpqcorp.net>  n In article <c5ei00$p5fl$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes:F :Then I really don't understand why HP don't convert these PS files toG :PDF and make them available on the "OpenVMS Documentation" site. (FromrH :my experiences, PDF is about one order of magnitude *smaller* than PS.)    H   That depends highly on the particular Postscript converter involved.  I   In practice, generated Postscript can be very tight and very efficient.tI   Unfortunately, some of the Postscript converters can be exceedingly to dB   extremely inefficient, and can generate huge and wasteful files.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 04:50:55 -0400p* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Proper management of DECC includes ) Message-ID: <407A5853.59C81C20@istop.com>s  M On my systems, there is no DECC$LIBRARY_INCLUDE logical set. (and a search ofoA the string in sys$startup:*.com yields nothing)  Is this normal ?t  B In which manual is the #include searchlist mechanism documented ?     L Also, from what I have read, having the DECC compiler pull the includes from! the .TLBs is much more efficient.   . is there a difference between #include <stdio>1 and                           #include <stdio.h> g  N with regards to a decision on whether the module comes from a file of from the	 library ?L    N Also, on my systems, there seems to be duplication of directories where the .H are present, for instance:   ACLDEF.H is found in:s5 $2$DKA200:[VMS$COMMON.DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]g7 $2$DKA200:[VMS$COMMON.DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.SYS$STARLET_C]s   BUT...   DESCRIP.H is found only in: ? Directory $2$DKA200:[VMS$COMMON.DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]a  7 So what is the purpose of the SYS$STARLET_C directory ?a      L However, there is no TLBs for the XWINDOWS include files (and those are veryG long and slow down compiler a lot). Has anyone bothered building a textHL library with all those includes (which are in various directories) ? Does it" make a difference in performance ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:34:11 +020030 From: "Per Ekdahl" <name.family_name@bluewin.ch>/ Subject: Re: Proper management of DECC includesE( Message-ID: <407a6284_1@news.bluewin.ch>  J From the VMS help file, also documented in the manual Compaq C for OpenVMS Alpha - Users Guide.   CC     Language_topicsu       Preprocessor         #include  H          The #include directive instructs the preprocessor to insert theG          contents of the specified file or module into the program.  AnX8          #include directive can have one of three forms:  !               #include "filespec"0!               #include <filespec>o"               #include module-name  I          The first two forms are ANSI-compliant methods of file inclusion L          and are therefore more portable.  In these forms, .h is the defaultJ          file type, unless the compiler is instructed to supply no default2          type (that is, a type of just ".") by the1          /ASSUME=NOHEADER_TYPE_DEFAULT qualifier.o  I          The third form is specific to OpenVMS systems for specifying thebH          inclusion of a module from a text library, and is not generallyI          needed or recommended because the ANSI forms also cause the text "          libraries to be searched.  9          For the order of search, see /INCLUDE_DIRECTORY.*  I          There is no defined limit to the nesting level of #include files=          and modules.u   CC     /INCLUDE_DIRECTORY  (         /INCLUDE_DIRECTORY=(place[,...])          /NOINCLUDE_DIRECTORY (D)  F      Provides similar functionality to the -I option of the cc commandC      on DIGITAL UNIX systems.  This qualifier allows you to specifyeG      additional places to search for include files.  A place can be oneH      of the following:  H       o  OpenVMS file-spec to be used as a default file-spec to RMS file/          services (example:  DISK$:[directory])h  B       o  UNIX style pathname in quotation marks (example:  "/sys")         o  Empty string ("")    G      If one of the places is specified as an empty string, the compilery<      is not to search any of its conventionally-named placesC      (DECC$USER_INCLUDE, DECC$SYSTEM_INCLUDE, DECC$LIBRARY_INCLUDE,r8      SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.INCLUDE.*], DECC$TEXT_LIBRARY,B      DECC$RTLDEF.TLB, SYS$STARLET_C.TLB).  It searches only placesG      specified explicitly on the command line by the /INCLUDE_DIRECTORYnF      and /LIBRARY qualifiers (or by the location of the primary sourceA      file, depending on the /NESTED_INCLUDE_DIRECTORY qualifier).u  G      The basic search order depends on the form of the header-file nametE      (after macro expansion).  Additional aspects of the search ordernH      are controlled by other command-line qualifiers and the presence or)      absence of logical name definitions.   5      All forms of header-file inclusion are affected:a  (       o  In quotes (example:  "stdio.h")  0       o  In angle brackets (example:  <stdio.h>)  D       o  An identifier to be treated as a text-module name (example:          stdio)-    E      Except where otherwise specified, searching a "place" means thatcF      the string designating the place is used as the default file-specF      in a call to an RMS system service (for example, $SEARCH/$PARSE),F      with a file-spec consisting of the name in the #include directiveF      without enclosing delimiters.  The search terminates successfully1      as soon as a file can be opened for reading.   .      For the quoted form, the search order is:        1.  One of the following:  G           o  If /NESTED_INCLUDE_DIRECTORY=INCLUDE_FILE (the default) iseC              in effect, search the directory containing the file ineG              which the #include directive itself occurred.  The meaningdF              of "directory containing" is:  the RMS "resultant string"F              obtained when the file in which the #include occurred wasG              opened, except that the filename and subsequent components H              are replaced by the default file type for headers (".H", orE              just "." if /ASSUME=NOHEADER_TYPE_DEFAULT is in effect).i@              The "resultant string" will not have translated any&              concealed device logical.  D           o  If /NESTED_INCLUDE_DIRECTORY=PRIMARY_FILE is in effect,G              search the default file type for headers using the contextaG              of the primary source file.  This means that just the file-F              type (".H" or ".") is used for the default file-spec but,C              in addition, the chain of "related file-specs" used to1A              maintain the sticky defaults for processing the nextcD              top-level source file is applied when searching for the              include file.  H           o  If /NESTED_INCLUDE_DIRECTORY=NONE is in effect, this entire'              step (Step 1) is bypassed.     >      2.  Search the places specified in the /INCLUDE_DIRECTORYF          qualifier, if any.  A place that can be parsed successfuly asH          an OpenVMS file-spec and that does not contain an explicit fileF          type or version specification is edited to append the default6          header file type specification (".H" or ".").  A          A place containing a "/" character is considered to be alE          UNIX-style name.  If the name in the #include directive alsoeH          contains a "/" character that is not the first character and isH          not preceded by a "!" character (that is, it is not an absoluteF          UNIX-style pathname), then the name in the #include directiveF          is appended to the named place, separated by a "/" character,G          before applying the decc$to_vms pathname translation function.t  D      3.  If "DECC$USER_INCLUDE" is defined as a logical name, searchA          "DECC$USER_INCLUDE:.H", or just "DECC$USER_INCLUDE:." if-4          /ASSUME=NOHEADER_TYPE_DEFAULT is in effect.  ;      4.  If the file is not found, follow the steps for thed+          angle-bracketed form of inclusion.     7      For the angle-bracketed form, the search order is:t  B      1.  Search the place "/".  This is a UNIX-style name that canA          combine only with UNIX names specified explicitly in thet<          #include directive.  It causes a specification likeG          <sys/types.h> to be considered first as /sys/types.h, which is>#          translated to SYS:TYPES.H.1  >      2.  Search the places specified in the /INCLUDE_DIRECTORY?          qualifier, exactly as in Step 2 for the quoted form ofh          inclusion.r  F      3.  If "DECC$SYSTEM_INCLUDE" is defined as a logical name, searchE          "DECC$SYSTEM_INCLUDE:.H", or just "DECC$SYSTEM_INCLUDE:." ife4          /ASSUME=NOHEADER_TYPE_DEFAULT is in effect.  C      4.  If "DECC$LIBRARY_INCLUDE" is defined as a logical name andeG          "DECC$SYSTEM_INCLUDE" is NOT defined as a logical name, searchCG          "DECC$LIBRARY_INCLUDE:.H", or just "DECC$LIBRARY_INCLUDE:." if 4          /ASSUME=NOHEADER_TYPE_DEFAULT is in effect.  H      5.  If neither "DECC$LIBRARY_INCLUDE" nor "DECC$SYSTEM_INCLUDE" areB          defined as logical names, then search the default list ofF          places for plain text-file copies of compiler header files as          follows:e  4          SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.INCLUDE.DECC$RTLDEF].H6          SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.INCLUDE.SYS$STARLET_C].H  B          If the file is not found, perform the text library search$          described in the next step.  D      6.  Extract the simple filename and file type from the #includeH          specification and use the filename as the module name to searchA          a list of text libraries associated with that file type.   G          For any file type, the initial text libraries searched consistoE          of those named on the command line with /LIBRARY qualifiers.g  G          If the /INCLUDE_DIRECTORY qualifier contained an empty string,t<          no further text libraries are searched.  Otherwise,:          DECC$TEXT_LIBRARY is searched for all file types.  H          If "DECC$LIBRARY_INCLUDE" is defined as a logical name, then noH          further text libraries are searched.  Otherwise, the subsequent3          libraries searched for each file type are:                  For ".H" or ".":  +                 SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$RTLDEF.TLBT  -                 SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB-  7               For any file type other then ".H" or ".":   -                 SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB-  ,      7.  If the previous step fails, search:            SYS$LIBRARY:.H-  F          Under /ASSUME=NOHEADER_TYPE_DEFAULT, the default file type is          modified as usual.s    8     For the text-module (non-portable) form of #include:  >     The name can only be an identifier.  It, therefore, has noG     associated "file type".  The identifier is used as a module name toa     search the following:r  G          1.  The text libraries named on the command line with /LIBRARY 0              qualifiers, in left-to-right order.  D          2.  The following list of text libraries in the order shownG              (unless the /INCLUDE_DIRECTORY qualifier contains an empty4@              string, in which case no further text libraries are              searched):n                DECC$TEXT_LIBRARY(              SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$RTLDEF.TLB*              SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$STARLET_C.TLB  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> schrieb im NewsbeitragK# news:407A5853.59C81C20@istop.com...oL > On my systems, there is no DECC$LIBRARY_INCLUDE logical set. (and a search ofC > the string in sys$startup:*.com yields nothing)  Is this normal ?n >aC > In which manual is the #include searchlist mechanism documented ?B >y >sI > Also, from what I have read, having the DECC compiler pull the includesh from# > the .TLBs is much more efficient.  >m0 > is there a difference between #include <stdio>2 > and                           #include <stdio.h> >yL > with regards to a decision on whether the module comes from a file of from the  > library ?V >j > I > Also, on my systems, there seems to be duplication of directories whered the .H > are present, for instance: >- > ACLDEF.H is found in:,7 > $2$DKA200:[VMS$COMMON.DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF] 9 > $2$DKA200:[VMS$COMMON.DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.SYS$STARLET_C]c >R > BUT... >r > DESCRIP.H is found only in:nA > Directory $2$DKA200:[VMS$COMMON.DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]m >19 > So what is the purpose of the SYS$STARLET_C directory ?n >< >r >NI > However, there is no TLBs for the XWINDOWS include files (and those arer veryI > long and slow down compiler a lot). Has anyone bothered building a texttK > library with all those includes (which are in various directories) ? Doest it$ > make a difference in performance ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:05:05 -0400o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: Proper management of DECC includese) Message-ID: <407A69B1.F1F3A968@istop.com>d   Per Ekdahl wrote:  > L > From the VMS help file, also documented in the manual Compaq C for OpenVMS > Alpha - Users Guide.  K Thanks. Found the info in the HELp file. But am curoius, in what chapter isv6 that information supposed to be in the User's Guide ?   6 >          SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.INCLUDE.DECC$RTLDEF].H8 >          SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.INCLUDE.SYS$STARLET_C].H > D >          If the file is not found, perform the text library search& >          described in the next step.    M Ok, so basically the .tlb access is only done if the .h individual file isn'tfN found, which means that even if .tlb file access is more efficient, it doesn't= provide any benefit since the files already exist by default.   K Shouldn't the compiler first look at the TLBs for the module  and then lookf! for a file if not in the module ?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:10:51 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>e# Subject: Re: Question on processorsf2 Message-ID: <LxSec.2960$dI1.1969@news.cpqcorp.net>  H There are no plans to port VMS to the x86-64 architecture.  OpenVMS willL continue to work on VAX, Alpha and Itanium architectures.  Both HP and IntelL believe that x86-64 is a "bridge" for existing IA32 users to get to 64-bits,I but Itanium has the better roadmap for high performance 64-bit commercialn and scientific computing."  A "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net> wrote in message * news:69adnSkSJ-2MRufdRVn_iw@comcast.com... > HellonL > I know this may have been asked before, but will VMS also be ported to AMDJ > chips or is HP bound to Intel chips. Would porting VMS over to AMD allow AMDa+ > to be like the "poor mans chip"  for VMS.u	 > phillipt >n >n   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:38:56 +0000 (UTC)c From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk# Subject: Re: Question on processorse) Message-ID: <c5h530$8d5$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   i In article <69adnSkSJ-2MRufdRVn_iw@comcast.com>, "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net> writes:- >HelloK >I know this may have been asked before, but will VMS also be ported to AMDrM >chips or is HP bound to Intel chips. Would porting VMS over to AMD allow AMDa* >to be like the "poor mans chip"  for VMS. >phillip >-M Unless I've missed an announcement of a change in direction VMS is still onlyi8 being ported to Itanium which is only produced by Intel.L If Itanium were to be dropped by both Intel and HP (rather than as currentlyJ seems likely Itanium just being produced by Intel for HP) then it would beA likely that VMS would be ported to Intel's version of the x86-64. I After all Intel's chip lines are still run on VMS hence they are unlikely'8 to want to see it without any future platform to run on.K This would probably mean that VMS would also run on AMD's x86-64 since theybK appear to be extremely compatible. However whether they would be officiallyr# supported would depend on politics.   
 David Webb VMS and unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:06:01 -0600s6 From: "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net> Subject: Question on processorsc0 Message-ID: <69adnSkSJ-2MRufdRVn_iw@comcast.com>   HelloeJ I know this may have been asked before, but will VMS also be ported to AMDL chips or is HP bound to Intel chips. Would porting VMS over to AMD allow AMD) to be like the "poor mans chip"  for VMS.  phillipi   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:22:30 GMT 0 From: "Red Apples" <write_me_here_now@yahoo.com>0 Subject: Re: reading VMS backups on UNIX -- HELP7 Message-ID: <qMDec.19102$QQ6.7445@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>t  K Boston Business Computing sells Vbackup, a product that will read and writei" OpenVMS save sets on UNIX systems.H There is an on line manual at www.bosbc.com/documents and information at www.bosbc.com/vbackup.html  2 Contact sales@bosbc.com for additional information   David Pikcilingis-
 www.bosbc.come" OpenVMS tools for Windows and UNIX  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ndof7i+jtDrL@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <m2brmnqq9e.fsf@adagio.mit.edu>, vanni@mit.edu writes:< > >y: > > Yes, f4 is a UNIX file (OSF1 windsurf V4.0 1229 alpha)4 > > that I extracted from a tape with the DD command* > >      (dd if=/dev/nrmt0h of=f4 bs=8192) > 7 >    There's a very good chance that 8192 is too small.U >n   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:19:30 +0000 (UTC)n- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)o! Subject: Re: Restore using backupo. Message-ID: <c5havi$9pq$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIGEFEDBAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:45:23 -0700:/ >Create backup tapes using following qualifiersh3 >backup/rewind/image/verify/record/ignore=interlockm  9 Followed by disk_name tape:saveset_name.ext/save, I hope."   >Had to replace a drives >mount/foreign diskh >mount/foreign tapeb >backup/image tape diska  2 backup/image tape:saveset_name.ext/save disk_name:  C Expect your QMAN$MASTER to be fried, if you lost the disk it was onrF (assuming the queue manager was running during the original backup).    0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:41:27 +0300u2 From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman-nospam-@tzora.co.il>! Subject: Re: Restore using backupt9 Message-ID: <c5hc8v$1mthj$1@ID-103225.news.uni-berlin.de>h   Tom Linden wrote:h0 > Create backup tapes using following qualifiers4 > backup/rewind/image/verify/record/ignore=interlock  
 Two notes:H First: The "record" switch will do nothing for you in this case, unless ? you have an incremental backup, made later with "/since=Backup"e  F Second, and more important: "ignore=interlock" *does* *not* mean that F opened files will be backed-up correctly. All it does is suppress the D relevant error message during backup. If there were active files at I backup time you could have backed-up incomplete, corrupt or inconsistent sH files. (Prime example: RMS index file copied to backup in the window of J time between updating data and updating index, or bucket splitting etc...)   Mike >  > Had to replace a drive > mount/foreign disk > mount/foreign tape > backup/image tape disk > I > Did I need any other qualifiers?  I suppose I should have used /verify.. >  > Tomo > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 4/8/2004t >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2004 14:47:25 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)! Subject: Re: Restore using backup = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0404131347.7335b9c2@posting.google.com>   s Mike Rechtman <rechtman-nospam-@tzora.co.il> wrote in message news:<c5hc8v$1mthj$1@ID-103225.news.uni-berlin.de>...o > Tom Linden wrote:a2 > > Create backup tapes using following qualifiers6 > > backup/rewind/image/verify/record/ignore=interlock >  > Two notes:J > First: The "record" switch will do nothing for you in this case, unless A > you have an incremental backup, made later with "/since=Backup"D  E He's creating a save set, so /RECORD will mark saved files for futurep> incremental backups. That's not quite what you wrote, I think.  H > Second, and more important: "ignore=interlock" *does* *not* mean that H > opened files will be backed-up correctly. All it does is suppress the F > relevant error message during backup. If there were active files at   B Without /IGNORE=INTERLOCK, BACKUP won't copy open files at all andD you'll get an error message saying the file was not copied (actuallyA it says, paraphrased, "error opening <file> as input, file accesspB confict). With it, BACKUP will attempt to copy an open file, but aC warning is issued that the file was open while it was being copied.r  K > backup time you could have backed-up incomplete, corrupt or inconsistent rJ > files. (Prime example: RMS index file copied to backup in the window of L > time between updating data and updating index, or bucket splitting etc...) [...]h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:44:45 +0100.O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>m/ Subject: Re: SKHPC: A Total Eclipse of the Sun?u0 Message-ID: <c5gcqd$22a$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:t   > None of them.  > E > I am referring to the arrogance of Sun sales people during the good G > years. "Sun is the best, everything else is shit etc." The CEO of SunrH > and the marketing people of Sun also have a tone of arrogance, but the > sales people were the worst.  B So you are talking about arrogance based on your perception of SunA and its senior managers rather than any actions from Sun that youa may consider to be arrogant.  A Every company says that they are the best, anyone remember Geraldy> Ratner and what happens to companies that suggest that in fact" what they do is average to bellow.  C HP's marketing retoric is full of the "S**T" you refer to sometimesyA so full of "S**T" that the people supplying the data which HP user? to support their claims have publically refuted HP's claims. Ory@ had you forgotten HP's spat with IDC/Gartner over their inflated market share claims ?l  B If I was you I would be rather more concerned about actions ratherE than words though I can see why you would not want that kind of lightn* shone on HP and OpenVMS's previous owners.   Regardse Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:15:47 GMTe> From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>/ Subject: Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTPa< Message-ID: <THhec.8293$TX2.8012@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>   mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote:  8 > In article <4074A428.9673561A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>,E >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:c >   >>mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote: >>	 >>>[snip] I >>>Have you ever issued a SET TIME command while (X)NTP was managing youruJ >>>clock? What happened? What if you SET TIME to the (approximate) currentI >>>time? Why would it be different if JOB_CONTROL changed the time? Isn't F >>>it still just a call to $SETIME? Wouldn't you just expect (X)NTP to6 >>>resynch (and find it doesn't have to jump an hour)? >>H >>Well, when you research it in depth, you find that setting the time isI >>not the issue. The issue is getting the right values into logical names@F >>such as SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL and SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME. JBC doesn'tJ >>actually change the time, it invokes some DCL proc.'s that ship with VMSF >>to actually perform the time and LNM changes. JBC is just a bit more" >>accurate about timing the event. >> >  > O > SYS$MANAGER:JBC$DST_COMMAND.COM which RUNs SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DAYLIGHT_SAVING.EXEpA > to $SETIME and re-define the pertinent logical names I believe.e  8 A bit late, (or early depending on how you look at it :)   FOR  TCPIP5.3+  USERS...8 If you define NET$DISABLE_DTSS 1 in SYLOGICALS.COM then G SYS$STARTUP:TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM gets executed at startup to define the  H above mentioned logicals.  And with 7.3-1 and above set AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV ; to 1 in SYSGEN/Modparams and reboot, then time will change mH automatically.  But those logicals previously mentioned MUST be defined.I BTW, I have inherited several systems where the NET$ logical was defined  G in SYS$STARTUP or in NET$STARTUP, but the procedure that executes this lC (VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM) executes AFTER SYLOGICALS and Before 7A anything else... so if you look, the NET$DISABLE_DTSS logical is yB defined, but the *TIMEZ* logicals were not set.  This caused much D confusion until I fould were the logical *should* have been defined.   Michael Austin   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:49:46 -0500l@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>/ Subject: Re: Time Change on VMS + Multinet/XNTPb4 Message-ID: <407AC8AA.7CDB2C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Michael Austin wrote:I >   > mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote: > : > > In article <4074A428.9673561A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>,G > >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:  > >c" > >>mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com wrote: > >> > >>>[snip]rK > >>>Have you ever issued a SET TIME command while (X)NTP was managing yourlL > >>>clock? What happened? What if you SET TIME to the (approximate) currentK > >>>time? Why would it be different if JOB_CONTROL changed the time? Isn't&H > >>>it still just a call to $SETIME? Wouldn't you just expect (X)NTP to8 > >>>resynch (and find it doesn't have to jump an hour)? > >>J > >>Well, when you research it in depth, you find that setting the time isK > >>not the issue. The issue is getting the right values into logical names1H > >>such as SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL and SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME. JBC doesn'tL > >>actually change the time, it invokes some DCL proc.'s that ship with VMSH > >>to actually perform the time and LNM changes. JBC is just a bit more$ > >>accurate about timing the event. > >> > >M > >rQ > > SYS$MANAGER:JBC$DST_COMMAND.COM which RUNs SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DAYLIGHT_SAVING.EXE C > > to $SETIME and re-define the pertinent logical names I believe.( > : > A bit late, (or early depending on how you look at it :) >  > FOR  TCPIP5.3+  USERS...9 > If you define NET$DISABLE_DTSS 1 in SYLOGICALS.COM thenGH > SYS$STARTUP:TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM gets executed at startup to define theI > above mentioned logicals.  And with 7.3-1 and above set AUTO_DLIGHT_SAVo< > to 1 in SYSGEN/Modparams and reboot, then time will changeJ > automatically.  But those logicals previously mentioned MUST be defined.J > BTW, I have inherited several systems where the NET$ logical was definedH > in SYS$STARTUP or in NET$STARTUP, but the procedure that executes thisD > (VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM) executes AFTER SYLOGICALS and BeforeB > anything else... so if you look, the NET$DISABLE_DTSS logical isC > defined, but the *TIMEZ* logicals were not set.  This caused muchLF > confusion until I fould were the logical *should* have been defined.  F One of the comments in SYS$STARTUP:TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM suggest that itB may have been intended to be invoked during or just after SYCONFIG# and/or $ @SYSSYSTEM:STARTUP CONFIG.v   FWIW...s   -- . David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/8   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:23:35 -04001* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>/ Subject: Re: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in articlef: Message-ID: <Q1fec.18983$UC4.18331@bignews2.bellsouth.net>   Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > D >> In article <4075F9EA.B702E05A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. ; >> Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:s >>   >>G >>> I read that on Google earlier today and wondered: If you were goofy3J >>> enough, could you do LAT over TCP/IP? Probably no software for that at8 >>> present, but t'would be an interesting experiment... >>>    >> >>J >>   No.  LAT would never tolerate the timing.  Better to use a LAT/TELNET/ >>   gateway than try to encapsulate LAT in IP.h >>   >>I > I don't buy that... For five years, I ran remote DECservers supporting aH > both terminals and two matrix printers between Hartford, Albuquerque, I > and Scottsdale, over a 56K frame-relay circuit (each) which, by todays lC > standards, is was not much better than dialup.  We never had had  J > problems with dropped LAT sessions and I believe that there is much too ' > much made of this 'timing tolerance.'o    F It really depends on how much other traffic you ran over that 56 Kbps H circuit.  I've run LAT bridged across a WAN and it worked OK as long as L there wasn't any traffic congestion on those circuits.  However, as soon as H there was contention for bandwidth, LAT sessions began timing out while D Telnet sessions simply suffered degraded throughput & response time.  G I'm sure that somebody with the technical specs on-hand or permanently  M burned into ROM in their heads can recite the proper timing parameters, but,  J IIRC, it is something like 80ms maximum that you have for a LAT watch-dog M packet to make the round-trip and keep the session alive.  If a watch-dog or uK keep-alive packet doesn't get responded to, then re-tries are performed up oG to a configurable limit that I vaguely recall as beeing 6 or 8 retries eK before the session is aborted due to non-responsiveness on the part of the o remote end of the connection.e  H I agree that LAT would not tolerate encapsulation within a TCP session. K Bridging and encapsulating inside TCP/IP not identical, especially when it hL comes to performance.  The bridging functionality in something like a Cisco L router is different from the routing functions over which TCP-enacapsulated I LAT packets would travel.  Some sort of translation gateway that locally aM responds to LAT and then re-packages the payload of the LAT packets into TCP sL packets would be much better.  That way, LAT traffic would only travel over 2 the LAN and TCP traffic would travel over the WAN.     -- p Chuck Chopph  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 19:25:04 +0100-< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>/ Subject: Re: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in articleu* Message-ID: <c5c2h7$2bl5$1@news.wplus.net>  7 "Chuck Chopp" <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote in messageo4 news:Q1fec.18983$UC4.18331@bignews2.bellsouth.net... > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > > Bob Koehler wrote: > >sE > >> In article <4075F9EA.B702E05A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J.r= > >> Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes:e > >> > >>I > >>> I read that on Google earlier today and wondered: If you were goofylL > >>> enough, could you do LAT over TCP/IP? Probably no software for that at: > >>> present, but t'would be an interesting experiment... > >>>d > >> > >>L > >>   No.  LAT would never tolerate the timing.  Better to use a LAT/TELNET1 > >>   gateway than try to encapsulate LAT in IP.r > >> > >>J > > I don't buy that... For five years, I ran remote DECservers supportingI > > both terminals and two matrix printers between Hartford, Albuquerque,nJ > > and Scottsdale, over a 56K frame-relay circuit (each) which, by todaysD > > standards, is was not much better than dialup.  We never had hadK > > problems with dropped LAT sessions and I believe that there is much took) > > much made of this 'timing tolerance.'  >  >aG > It really depends on how much other traffic you ran over that 56 Kbps1I > circuit.  I've run LAT bridged across a WAN and it worked OK as long as:J > there wasn't any traffic congestion on those circuits.  However, as soon asI > there was contention for bandwidth, LAT sessions began timing out whileeF > Telnet sessions simply suffered degraded throughput & response time. >T  I At one site I worked at, they were bridging LAT from the UK to Australia.d: And at another from the UK to both Hong Kong and New York.  1 In all three cases it worked, but was very slow..i   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 08:28:24 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s/ Subject: Re: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in article 3 Message-ID: <bqDiBSCULRig@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  U In article <40787EC2.8010504@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:  >>I > I don't buy that... For five years, I ran remote DECservers supporting -H > both terminals and two matrix printers between Hartford, Albuquerque, I > and Scottsdale, over a 56K frame-relay circuit (each) which, by todays -C > standards, is was not much better than dialup.  We never had had [J > problems with dropped LAT sessions and I believe that there is much too ' > much made of this 'timing tolerance.'o  D    Can be done.  We had a 56K relay, too, which did not support LAT.C    The vendor said it was also a timing problem and that they couldRB    supply us with a different EEPROM that was compatable with LAT.    We didn't bother.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 08:26:46 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) / Subject: Re: VAX *and* VMS mentioned in articleB3 Message-ID: <ngzTeuhOrcrV@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  i In article <c590st$2pjfnc$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes:h > L > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> schreef in bericht/ > news:kxSC019sfY2b@eisner.encompasserve.org...hI >> In article <dJgdc.4661$j32.232@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>, "konabear":! > <maurert@ameritech.net> writes:$- >> > So how do I make LINUX speak DECnet? :^)N >> >	 >> > Todds >>J >>    Load and configure the standard Linux DECnet set.  Then fix it's one
 >>    bug. >>G > Ah, is that perhaps the reason I can't get DECnet running on my linux 
 > systems. > How does one fix the bug?W  D    We had no problem getting it running.  The bug was the failure ofG    their CTERM implementation to properly echo linefeed sometimes aftere    carriage return.u  E    You fix the bug (if it's still in there) by downloading the source-@    and making the proper edit.  We didn't bother, it was just anH    experience for my son to see some non-IP networking on his Linux box.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:49:34 -0400e. From: "Jim Mickalide" <mickalide@adelphia.net>4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?1 Message-ID: <JsqdnZLtpfE4euTd4p2dnA@adelphia.com>e  J EDS wasn't in Chelmsford MA but we were in Lowell and we moved out 2 years ago to the Mill in Maynard.i        6 "Dan Notov" <danno@large.INVALID.com> wrote in message& news:iW5ec.9259$xn4.31057@attbi_s51... > = > "Starboy" <sNtOaSrPbAoMyTAaolnospamtodcom> wrote in messagec, > news:107ffuip9i46i45@corp.supernews.com... > >T > >r > > John Smith wrote:o > > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > >  > > >>In articleK > > >><Xr01c.66052$ah.17182@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John % > > >>Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:p > > >>K > > >>>And while Mark is loking into it, suggest that he allow the HobbyistNJ > > >>>licenses to be used by all educational institutions, K-12, collegesB > > >>>and universities as long as they are used for instructionalH > > >>>purposes. Seems to me that the Hobbyist licenses are less onerous8 > > >>>and less expensive than the Educational licenses. > > >>I > > >>Already been suggested on a number of occasions.  And rejected each  > > >>and every time.d > > >l > > >  > > >tL > > > HP just isn't to be taken seriously then. A serious company identifiesD > > > what's wrong and takes constructive steps to fix the problems. > > >YH > > > Just how freaking hard is it to takes steps to make VMS visible inJ > > > ..edu-land? Not hard, unless your intent as a corporation is to keep itK > > > invisible so that nobody would go out of their way to ask for it once  > theyK > > > reached the working world after having been exposed to it in college.  > > E > > Considering that the US Navy still conducts OpenVMS Internals and B > > Drivers Training, I think you just answered your own question. > >"H > > If male adolescent aggression can be redirected to hacking MicrosoftK > > Windows and LINUX, then the risk to OpenVMS-based government systems isEG > > reduced, and the risk to anyone running anything else is increased.M > > Including the bad guys.C > >_J > > Of course, the better solution is to put them all on Prozac as soon as# > > they start sprouting chin hair.m > >l > > >tJ > > > If it was just begnin neglect, HP would have done something about it > afterrK > > > it had been brought to their attention. But it isn't begnin neglect -  > it'sL > > > deliberate policy - In some worlds it is called 'planned attrition' or > > > 'downsizing'.A > > >a > >eL > > In some corridors, "benign neglect" is called "Homeland Security," whichE > > is why EDS's Chelmsford, MA, Legacy Software division has quietly I > > inherited software application support and maintenance for DECwindowsxH > > and other "Legacy" OpenVMS application software, like DEC ACMS.  EDSL > > doesn't just own those support contracts to protect their Appex cellularG > > telephony billing applications, which account for 42% of the globalmG > > wireless billing systems, the fastest growing telecom market on thef  > > planet next to satellite TV. > >eL > > The other "EDS"-like company to watch is ACS, the other guys from Texas,H > > who run automated toll-booths, traffic surveillance/control systems,G > > guaranteed student loans, medicare payment systems, welfare paymentrC > > systems, alimony tracking systems, HIPAA-compliant patient-care1J > > information systems, tax collection systems, customs and border-patrolI > > systems, and prison administration systems.  ACS still sends staff toa0 > > OpenVMS training on a regular basis as well. > >eJ > > ACS really got interesting, because, in 1995, Compaq was more than 50%H > > owned by German interests (anyone remember Eckhard Pfeiffer?) and soF > > Compaq was disqualified from running and was then forced to divestL > > itself from DEC's US and several key state government service contracts,I > > which were quietly sold to ACS, thereby effectively reducing Compaq'sEE > > OpenVMS software and system services income by 35%.  That was onehL > > poison-pill that Pfeiffer failed to appreciate, which was another reasonC > > why he got the boot from Compaq by Ben Rosen about a year aftera& > > Pfeiffer's acquisition of Digital. > >hI > > So, one might hypothesize that HP will only get serious about OpenVMStB > > when and if they acquire ACS to re-acquire those US government
 contracts.5 > [Rest of the interesting history lesson deleted...]s >sI > Interesting, I missed this bit about ACS. After the acquisition of DEC,xI > Compaq created a separate entity, "Compaq Federal, LLC." to support all  the K > US federal business due to Mr. Pfeiffer's citizenship. It was not that hefF > had >50% interest, it was that he was an non-US citizen and officer. Nothingh7 > was done about covering State & Local Gov't business?a >iH > Fast forward to today, ACS and Lockheed Martin IT have swapped bodies:D > Lockheed picked up ACS federal business, ACS gets LMT's commercial	 business:sE > http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/18_10/federal/21490-1.html  >c >c   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 08:23:00 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?3 Message-ID: <r$RItNqWJYh1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <107ffuip9i46i45@corp.supernews.com>, Starboy <sNtOaSrPbAoMyTAaolnospamtodcom> writes:,  9 > Keep it simple; Keep it small; Keep it cold.  The firstd& > Cray's were booted by VAX's afterall  H    Except, of course, that there were no VAXen back when the first Crays    were built.  G    Now someone else can shine a light on the rest of your little spiel."   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:30:49 GMTE! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>.4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?8 Message-ID: <3icl70hf3es19pbvur9g4bkbml7adbnpmi@4ax.com>  K On 12 Apr 2004 08:23:00 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob  Koehler) wrote:h  b >In article <107ffuip9i46i45@corp.supernews.com>, Starboy <sNtOaSrPbAoMyTAaolnospamtodcom> writes: > : >> Keep it simple; Keep it small; Keep it cold.  The first' >> Cray's were booted by VAX's afteralls >sI >   Except, of course, that there were no VAXen back when the first CraysS >   were built.s  3 They were often front-ended by 780s or 785s though.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Apr 2004 14:48:45 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)"4 Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist License program abolished?3 Message-ID: <hQmV6YfJqKsg@eisner.encompasserve.org>R  \ In article <3icl70hf3es19pbvur9g4bkbml7adbnpmi@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:M > On 12 Apr 2004 08:23:00 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (BobR > Koehler) wrote:  > c >>In article <107ffuip9i46i45@corp.supernews.com>, Starboy <sNtOaSrPbAoMyTAaolnospamtodcom> writes:C >>; >>> Keep it simple; Keep it small; Keep it cold.  The firstr( >>> Cray's were booted by VAX's afterall >>J >>   Except, of course, that there were no VAXen back when the first Crays >>   were built. > 5 > They were often front-ended by 780s or 785s though.I  K    Cray worked with DEC front ends a lot.  Even built Alpha based parallel xF    processors.  But they didn't wait for VAXen to ship the first Cray.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:53:26 -0500i@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: VMS?e6 Message-ID: <407AC986.EE16F838@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Wayne wrote: > M > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 1 > news:4075F78E.38D8AD5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net...U > > Wayne wrote: > > > [snip] > [snip again]G > > I took the liberty of forwarding your comments in their entirety to ) > > Carly, Mark Gorham and Carl Gallozzi.  > >. > > -- > > David J. DachteraN > > dba DJE Systemsa > M > Just curious - is there evidence that they react to, or even actually read,hK > emails such as these? I'm not being sarcastic, just wondering if emailing J > those folks directly really ever gets their attention or yields results.  F Rather depends on the content, I should think. My notes to the top re:E ITRC certainly got the brass's attention. Phone calls from the CSC soEG much as stated that they were calling because Carly had got wind of it.L   -- . David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems_ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:29:44 -0400,+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>" Subject: Re: VMS?sI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0404121529170.14972@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>t  ' Use the fork, luke.. there is no spawn.h        % On Sat, 10 Apr 2004, Bill Todd wrote:-   > : > "Thierry Dussuet" <thierry@MARS.Family> wrote in message+ > news:slrnc760n4.oa.thierry@MARS.Family.../7 > > On 2004-04-06, Charlie Hammond <hammond@not> wrote: 9 > > > In article <N6$R1j0QN5kP@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 5 > > > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > > >> > > >>> What's the future? > > >>* > > >>There will be strife in the Mideast. > > >e& > > > And stock prices will fluctuate. > >s > > And there will be a spoon. >t > May the Fork be with you.t >e > - bill >I >R >N >D   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 21:29:32 +0100n< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>/ Subject: Re: WEBES install failing on DCLTABLES ) Message-ID: <c5c9qj$h06$1@news.wplus.net>C  K "Michael Austin" <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote in message 6 news:BKhec.8295$TX2.3423@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com... > Alex Daniels wrote:  >c4 > > David Gray <police@spamcop.net> wrote in message4 news:<jlp570lbfaia0bjmj5tuc5f9ncl6p1rbse@4ax.com>... > >  > >>Greetings group, > >> > >>OpenVMS 7.3-2t > >>Alpha server ES45e > >>DEC AXPVMS WEBES V4.3-1  > >> > >>F > >>Having problems installing WEBES on an Alpha server.  InstallationD > >>goes fine until it tries to add the startup/shutdown commands to > >>systartup_vms. > >> > >>> > >>Portion done: 0%...10%...20%...30%...40%...50%...60%...90% > >>5 > >>DESTA$STARTUP and DESTA$SHUTDOWN will be added top7 > >>system startup and shutdown procedures, by default.oA > >>Answering NO will add DESTA_LOGICALS$STARTUP, for defining ofrC > >>ONLY LOGICALS but won't start the DESTA Director during Reboot.u > >>Do you want to add?[YES] > >>H > >>%SET-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE;100 as	 > >>inputp& > >>-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > >>F > >>%PCSI-E-EXEPSTFAIL, product supplied EXECUTE POSTINSTALL procedure
 > >>failed- > >>-SET-E-OPENIN, error opening !AS as inputu& > >>%PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failedI > >>Terminating is strongly recommended.  Do you want to terminate? [YES]eJ > >>%PCSI-E-CANCEL_WIP, termination resulted in an incomplete modification > >>to the systemE3 > >>%PCSI-E-S_OPCAN, operation cancelled by requestfG > >>%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable errorD
 > >>condition.A > >> OPERATION TERMINATED DUE TO AN UNRECOVERABLE ERROR CONDITION_ > >>D > >>Is this likely to be an installed image version mismatch?    TheC > >>version reported by the install utility is ;104 but the install. > >>program is failing on ;100 > >>8 > >>$ install list SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE/full > >>7 > >>  DCLTABLES;104    Open Hdr Shared            Lnkbli, > >>        Entry access count         = 178. > >>        Current / Maximum shared   = 2 / 5* > >>        Global section count       = 1 > >> > >>Any ideas anyone?- > >> > >>Cheers,-
 > >> Dave. > >1 > > B > > Seems a bit odd, may be worth trying the latest version V4.3-2 > >c? > > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/svctools/webes/index.html6 > >. > >n > > Alex >e> > also make sure you have the PCSI-200 patch installed. (IIRC) >p > Michael Austin >t  ? Only up to PCSI-100 (for 7.3-2, which David said he was using).    Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:29:39 -0400t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: WEBES install failing on DCLTABLESg) Message-ID: <4079AAAB.F30AC185@istop.com>o   David Gray wrote:eB > Is this likely to be an installed image version mismatch?    TheA > version reported by the install utility is ;104 but the installA > program is failing on ;100 > 6 > $ install list SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]DCLTABLES.EXE/full > 5 >   DCLTABLES;104    Open Hdr Shared            Lnkbln  B It is still possible. For instance, if you proceeded with multipleC installations from the same process, each creating a new version ofnI DCLTABLES.EXE and doing an INSTALL/REPLACE, this would still happen. YourdL process would still be mapped to the original but now deleted file (which is3 just marked for delete because it is still in use).d  N However, I am not 100% sure how SET COMMAND behaves when your own DCLTABLE.EXE isn't the most recent.  N If you log out fully (not just log out of a subprocess), and log back in, does the error still occur ?e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.206 ************************