1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 16 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 211       Contents: (OT) DECUS C insult generator ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... @ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers@ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers Re: Back in the saddle Re: Back in the saddle Re: Back in the saddle Re: Back in the saddle Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: DCL Coding Standards Re: FTP service failure : How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> RE: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... Re: Kind of farewell Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... Need VAXVMS055 ISO OpenVMS I64 workstation timing? C Please visit the bootcamp website, we have added a couple of things   Re: POP3 email timestamp problem Re: Postscript Re: Question on processors Re: Question on processors RE: Reading Apple diskettes  Re: Reading Apple diskettes  Re: Reading Apple diskettes  Re: Routing question Re: Routing question Re: Routing question Re: Routing question Re: SSL in AST-driven programm?  Re: SSL in AST-driven programm? ! Re: Translate SMTP Error Number ? ! Re: Translate SMTP Error Number ?  Re: VAX/VMS-WNT integration... We still SELL Alpha Systems $ Re: Why VMS advertising is important$ Re: Xwindows TCPIP/DECnet forwarding$ Re: Xwindows TCPIP/DECnet forwarding Re: [ot] DNS Lookup Help Re: [ot] DNS Lookup Help  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 10:12:06 -0700$ From: gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen)& Subject: (OT) DECUS C insult generator= Message-ID: <bdc65a53.0404160912.52f4dac5@posting.google.com>   D Way, way back in a previous life I did a lot of coding in DECUS C onB an RSX-11M system. There were some fun bits of code that came withF DECUS C and/or some of the enhancements or tool packages available for it.   D One of these was a text generator that accepted a simple grammar andC then produced random sentences based upon that grammar. There was a F sample program for it that generated insulting comments in the context# of playing a chess-like board game.   ? It could generate some convoluted and often very funny insults!   E I did some Google searches hoping to turn it up but couldn't think of B a specific enough search string. Does anyone remember this program? (and the other DECUS C tools that came in the same package) and , perhaps know where a copy could be obtained?  A (It may have been associated with the DECUS C LEX lexical scanner  generator?)    Thanks,    Galen    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:12:19 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c5opkk$c9h$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c53mih$tq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >  >>Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >>N >>>I think that the minute Andrew decides to quit the conference, you will seeN >>>a near instantanious dissapearance of any discussion (let alone bashing) ofN >>>Sun in the conference...  because most of of just don't care.  Sun's battle3 >>>is with other UNIXes, Linux, Windows and itself.  >>>  >>> >>VMS newsgroups have always had a subset of their respondants@ >>that have indulged in UNIX bashing. Because Sun is the largest= >>UNIX vendor much of this generic bashing gravitated towards < >>Solaris and all of this was well underway before I started >>posting to this group. >  > H > As far as I see it, most of those who post here about Sun just want toA > tease with you. And, apparently you appear to take it much more - > seriously than what most people usually do.   # You think the choir arn't serious ?   7 And teases are only sucessfully if the person doing the : teasing doesn't end up walking away looking like an idiot.   And guess what !!!   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:38:19 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c5or5c$cse$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:a > In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEEIDBAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  > G >>Well, I am sure many are gleefully wring their hands, but in the long / >>run lack of competition is not a Good Thing.   >  >  > A > 	Very good thing from Intel's and HP's perspective.  After all, C > 	as co-developer you can bet that HP gets a fat Itanium discount.  >       4 2 x Itanium 2 1.5 Ghz 6 MB cache 8 GB RAM 73 GB disk   Dell 22,298  HP   26,880   8 Over half the cost of both systems is in the 2 Itanium 2 CPU's   ? Shame that the fat discount doesn't translate into lower prices  then isn't it.  7 And we know that Dell are making money on the Poweredge  but HP on the rx2600 ??????      >  >>Moreover, with the fundsH >>no longer needed for Sparc development Sun could be a much more fierce >>competitor.    >  > A > 	Sure - get rid of the UltraSparc boat anchor.  Likewise, ditch @ > 	Alpha development.  Fierce competitor?  Bzzzt.  The wind went# > 	out of their sails 3 years back.  >   B Well its any interesting theory but in fact we have only cancelled@ a CPU not the whole platform so as theorys go its not up to much, but then again were you expecting it to be ?   > 1 >>I am just surprised that it took Sun this long.  >  > ? > 	Nope.  They certainly couldn't have announced the murder of  B > 	UltarSparc V and Gemini without another Sparc to act as a placeG > 	holder on a shredded UltraSparc roadmap.  Hence, "Rock" announcement ( > 	in early February was very important: > < > http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/02/12/HNsunrock_1.html > ) > Sun adds Rock to its UltraSparc roadmap G > Company outlines plans for two new multithreading processor families   >   : > By James Niccolai, IDG News Service February 12, 2004    >   Q > Sun Microsystems Inc. shed some more light on its UltraSparc roadmap Wednesday, M > outlining plans for two new processor families that will use multithreading 8 > techniques to boost the performance of Sun's servers.  >  > ---  > B > 	Rock is a roadmap placeholder.  Surely, US5 murder decision wasD > 	made some time ago and they needed to get the roadmap filled out. >   7 Sorry but your theories are just way to wacky how about  reality instead.  3 Niagara opened up a totally new avenue, Rock is the " logical progression after Niagara.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:54:10 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 0 Message-ID: <c5ohhj$9n3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nigel Barker wrote: G > On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:07:47 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >>Nigel Barker wrote:  >>H >>>On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:26:11 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >>>  >>>  >>> = >>>>Trying in the well tried HP choirister way to compare and ? >>>>contrast this with the demise of Alpha is only funny if you < >>>>arn't an Alpha cutomer. To everyone else its hillarious. >>>  >>> R >>>I'm a software guy so ultimately I don't really care what hardware VMS runs on.O >>>Mind you if it ran on SPARC the performance would be totally unacceptable to > >>>what current Alpha & future Itanium customers would expect. >>>  >>D >>Sounds much more like marketing spin are you in Software marketing >>or sales ? >  > N > I presume that's meant as an insult but I will dignify it by a reply. I haveO > over 20+ years under my belt as a VMS programmer, system man gager, Technical N > Consultant, application designer, solutions architect etc etc my current jobR > title is 'Consultant Strategique' whatever that means. I am not a salesperson or$ > marketeer now do I play one on TV. >   8 So why the foolish performance claims ? Remember variousC people in this group have tried and failed miserably to support the D Alpha fast everything else pants claim that you appear to be making.  ? If you don't want to get labeled as a marketeer then try harder > before posting, earlier replies of yours about the AMD Opteron= appeared at best to be simply parroting the HP marketing line : on Opteron which as you may have worked out was never that well constructed.      Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:53:21 +0100 > From: Andrew Harrison <andrew.d.harrison_remove_the_d@sun.com>I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 0 Message-ID: <c5p0kn$eo4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Nigel Barker wrote: L > On 9 Apr 2004 07:53:54 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote:  >  >  >>In article <c516h9$33j$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >>@ >>>JDS is a desktop OS that is designed to run Java based client( >>>applications hence its Java branding. >>I >>  Another bad name.  Unless we've been lied to when told the OS on the  ? >>  box is Linux, which makes JDS some layer other than the OS.  >  > N > Don't the purists refer to GNU/Linux? Linux is the kernel while GNU providesM > most of the commands & utilities that one actually thinks of in a UNIX type 	 > system.  >   9 Richard Stallman certainly does and he has a valid point.   = Linux is mostly a Kernel packaged with what is mostly GNU and < other non Linux OpenSource Utilites. The non Linux bits make9 up over 95% of any distribution with the Linux bits being D the kernel, drivers, managements bits like Yast2 for this and things	 like RPM.    Regards  Andrew Harrison  > -- > Nigel Barker! > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 10:36:10 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers = Message-ID: <734da31c.0404160936.68f8108c@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c5lr4f$9oo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > David Svensson wrote:  > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c5gf8b$2s4$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >  > >>Nigel Barker wrote:  > >>8 > >>>On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:58:50 +0000, Andrew Harrison/ > >>><andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote:  > >>>  > >>>  > >>>  > >>>>UltraSPARC IV+ > >>>>UltraSPARC V
 > >>>>Niagara 
 > >>>>Rock > >>>>< > >>>>All currently under development, some in first silicon > >>>  > >>> M > >>>Shock! Horror! Did Sun lie to their customers when they promised to ship L > >>>UltraSPARC V etc? No, they told them what was true to the best of theirL > >>>knowledge at the time. Circumstances change, fortunes change. Just like$ > >>>decisions made regarding Alpha. > >>>  > >>: > >>Nice try but the chip that you and the market think of= > >>as UltraSPARC V may have been cancelled but SPARC hasn't.  > >>> > >>One of the reasons why the chip you think of as UltraSPARC; > >>V was cancelled is because it had to compete internally  > >>with Rock. > >>= > >>Trying in the well tried HP choirister way to compare and ? > >>contrast this with the demise of Alpha is only funny if you < > >>arn't an Alpha cutomer. To everyone else its hillarious. > >> > >>Regards  > >>Andrew HArrison  > >  > > J > > You would gain some credibility if you at least sometimes say that Sun8 > > has done something bad. Is everything Sun does good? >  > ....  D You didn't say that the efforts and the later cancelled Millenum andD Gemini CPUs were bad for Sun? Many people seem to believe that was a bad thing...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:22:10 GMT # From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net  Subject: Re: Back in the saddle 8 Message-ID: <jo9u70t3d6hqj3netiievl9kc91qh4ioru@4ax.com>  C On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:54:18 -0600, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>  wrote:  B >I still remember how much faster a PDP 11/40 was than a PDP-8I...  9 I still remember how a KA10 eclipsed an 8I back in '71.      Allison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:48:45 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: Back in the saddle 8 Message-ID: <euvv70t0mo11o3s9gcbot9j2n9uo398cqo@4ax.com>  G On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:43:29 GMT, "GreyCloud" <mist@Cumulus.com> wrote:    >David M Smith wrote:   F >> I still remember thinking how much faster a VAX 11/785 was than the; >> 11/780's we were running -- does that date me, or what?!  > L >A bit.  I had fun with old IBM fortran (a model 706 if I recall) with punch4 >cards.  Took a while to get a program compiled tho. >   K The first computer I programmed "directly" was a PDP-8/E with an ASR-33 and N toggle switches for input. I remember loading the editor from paper tape, thenL writing the source to paper tape; then loading the assembler and reading theN source file 3 times to get the output. I think I loaded the binary in with theK toggle switches. I was really happy to switch to a disk-based editor when I C learned about OS/8 (I think it was called) and 8-inch floppy disks.   I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:33:49 -0400 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> Subject: Re: Back in the saddle * Message-ID: <407ffcfa@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  L I remember how great it was to use a 029 keypunch instead of a 026 keypunch.B or that bumping my KA10 from 128KW to 384KW made everything fasterH or that if I turned on my 11/20 after it had been turned off for several  months and hit the return key itL was still running the program it was running when the power was turned off..  I but enough of this.. Mike see if they will send you up to the Bootcamp in  may..     H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:CoUZYabV0F+3@eisner.encompasserve.org... H > In article <1gbt701ubepfkndas1vtetg0j318nsdgl1@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes: > G > > I still remember thinking how much faster a VAX 11/785 was than the  11/780's we 0 > > were running -- does that date me, or what?! > > >    I remember seeing how much slower our 1st 11/780 (sans FO: >    accelerator) was than the SEL 32/55 I had been using. > $ >    But, oh, so much easier to use. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:54:59 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>  Subject: Re: Back in the saddle B Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040416095128.021c5dd8@raptor.psccos.com>  + At 09:48 AM 4/16/2004, David M Smith wrote: H >On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:43:29 GMT, "GreyCloud" <mist@Cumulus.com> wrote: >  > >David M Smith wrote:  > H > >> I still remember thinking how much faster a VAX 11/785 was than the= > >> 11/780's we were running -- does that date me, or what?!  > > N > >A bit.  I had fun with old IBM fortran (a model 706 if I recall) with punch6 > >cards.  Took a while to get a program compiled tho. > >  > L >The first computer I programmed "directly" was a PDP-8/E with an ASR-33 andO >toggle switches for input. I remember loading the editor from paper tape, then M >writing the source to paper tape; then loading the assembler and reading the O >source file 3 times to get the output. I think I loaded the binary in with the L >toggle switches. I was really happy to switch to a disk-based editor when ID >learned about OS/8 (I think it was called) and 8-inch floppy disks.  M I started programming on an old IBM batch-based system and punch cards (don't L remember the model).  3-day turnaround was considered great time.  The firstH I programmed directly was a Perkin-Elmer Interdata system.  5 ASR33-typeJ terminals and hex keypad to boot.  Booting took about 45 minutes (1+ pagesM of hex input on the keypad and 3 paper tapes to read).  No permanent storage; M when you were done with your program and wanted to save it, you punched a new H paper tape of it that you had to read in next time you wanted to run it.  % But heck, it was interactive!  <grin>    ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 00:10:43 -0700( From: pimpelmees@pandora.be (Pimpelmees)! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards = Message-ID: <576e9651.0404152310.4cca99d0@posting.google.com>   C > You mean everything after the missing quote is ignored. OK, but I  > never ran into this problem.  C The problem also arise if there are IF syntax errors in the script. v Check http://groups.google.be/groups?hl=nl&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22TARGET+OF+GOTO+NOT+FOUND%22&meta=group%3Dcomp.os.vms  < (I had both but I can no longer reproduce the quote problem)   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 06:30:40 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards < Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0404160530.a42bbb5@posting.google.com>  m pimpelmees@pandora.be (Pimpelmees) wrote in message news:<576e9651.0404152310.4cca99d0@posting.google.com>... E > > You mean everything after the missing quote is ignored. OK, but I   > > never ran into this problem. > E > The problem also arise if there are IF syntax errors in the script. x > Check http://groups.google.be/groups?hl=nl&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22TARGET+OF+GOTO+NOT+FOUND%22&meta=group%3Dcomp.os.vms > > > (I had both but I can no longer reproduce the quote problem)  A It's beginning to sound like you're recommending as the standard:   0     "Don't make any mistakes in your DCL code"!        ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 21:28:10 -0400 1 From: joseph.b.gurman@nasa.gov (Joseph B. Gurman)   Subject: Re: FTP service failure< Message-ID: <joseph.b.gurman-1004042128100001@192.168.1.254>  I     Thanks to Michael and Jan-Erik for their responses. We finally traced G the problem to a local service tester, running on another machine, that 8 produced no known problems on *ix and Mac OS X machines.  @     FWIW, the client was also an OpenVMS machine, but it made noI difference; the same behavior occurred on other client platforms as well.   J     At least this got me to clear out the ~ 160 Mbyte anonymous ftp log we had before the problem....                     Joe Gurman   --  G "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they go by." F                                           - Douglas Adams, 1952 - 2001A Joseph B. Gurman, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Solar Physics  Branch, Greenbelt MD 20771 USA   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 06:20:27 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)C Subject: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0404160520.13ddd8f7@posting.google.com>   C Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorize  and separateF Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a minimum D for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings
 happens toC be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS has  four. E OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified as 	 requiring  special named privileges.    And, then...  6  - allow access to higher mode services only through a DESCRIPTOR-basedD    calling standard which rules out "by design" the primary cause of securityE    holes - buffer-overflows. The secure Calling Standard is a central  design    theme in OpenVMS.  F  - rewrite and install your TCP/IP stack so that it doesn't live in orB    directly access kernel mode services except through the calling	 standard. @    If the previous condition was met, your tcp/ip stack probablyD    won't work in Supervisor mode or User Mode without these changes.B    This is the reason why most security holes for which OpenVMS isA    affected does not in fact lead to a security vulnerability. In F    this sense I agree with Andrew. Security vulnerability listings are9    innaccurate for OpenVMS. Because they do not correctly 
 differentiate E    whether only a user-mode process can be affected or a higher mode, D    and whether a higher privilege can be attained. A correct listing>    must rate the severity of the security hole. In OpenVMS the severityE    is usually lower (or meaningless) in comparison to other operating     systems.   F  - design privilege assignments to be attached to a mode. If a programC    installed in a higher mode breaks out to a user-mode prompt. All C    privileges assigned during the program run must be automatically  lost. C    This prevents program privilege tailgating. OpenVMS Hackers (yes  they>    do exist, an admirably persistent if unsuccessful lot) have recently9    discovered this functionality in OpenVMS, inwhich they 
 intentionally F    installed an application with privileges and with a buffer overflow leading E    to a DCL prompt. Their experiment failed. This OpenVMS "knockdown" A    functionality can also be extended to disable the privilege of ?    receiving a DCL Prompt when breaking out of a program or DCL 
 procedure,E    just by assigning the CAPTIVE and RESTRICT flags to user accounts.   @  - design your Unix to provide only strictly separated (and from overflow?    controlled) user and system stacks to prevent stack crashing  leading &    to access to higher mode functions.  F  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism to    be carried out by one  @ These are only a few of the unique, patented design decisions in OpenVMS C resulting in a world-beating matrix of Functionality, Reliability,  D Availability, Security, Stability, and Scalability(RT, APMP, SMP andF Cluster). It's an OS that was "Designed" first by 4 competing teams of experts,E and then the best results of these competing design teams merged into  a ? final design team. They knew of the older Unix, MVS and Multics  designs, andD naturally they innovated and improved on them for the Enterprise OS  problem space.  A When you are done making these elementary design changes to Unix  A (many of which were intentionally excluded or ignored by the Unix 	 designers F in 1969 - Multics already had early forms many of them) you will find A most of the commercial products on the Unix Market will no longer  functionF correctly on your New-Unix, and will also require a redesign, and then
 a rewrite.  ? But at least you will finally have an OS and TCP/IP stack which @ "begins" to technically compare with OpenVMS within the frame of	 security. F And you'll have a product which pays royalties to OpenVMS Engineering.  F Each OS has it's strengths and weaknesses in design and implementationE which will have a different evaluation depending on the problem space ? it will be applied to, and depending on the design goals of the 
 designers.> For the general Enterprise OS problem space, I believe OpenVMS Engineering ; has most consistently made the best decisions in design and  implemented ? them with an admirably consistent high quality and methodology.   E OpenVMS enthusiasts can righteously bemoan that the Computer Science  A Profession (Informatics) have failed to recognize and teach their  studentsC the sophisticated mechanisms and high principals found in OpenVMS,  D preferring instead to favoritize the minimalistic asthetics of Unix,E or the marketing level sophistication in OS selection. This is a real > loss for enterpise efficiency (money), mission-critical system	 stability F (lives), and the computer science profession (maturity as a science). @ A more balanced and impartial framework of scientific thought is needed. F Computer Science needs some independence from commercial and marketing> interests to even discover the value of many existing designs, technologiesD and ideas. The last major papers over OS design were written over 10/ years ago, but their work is far from complete.   A Critics of OpenVMS should first study and compare it's internals  E (Professional OS comparisons and choices should not be reduced to an  A application layer beauty contest) with an open mind concering OS  > design paradigms, system operations principals and reliability methodologies.A After recovering from the shock, they will likely no longer be as 	 critical.   E Excuse me. I just noticed I didn't finish writing the last condition.  It should read...   F  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism toF    be carried out by one program/process first created at user request and =    has complete responsibility for the entire login sequence.   @ By the way, that was not by any means a complete list of OpenVMS, design advantages.  It was only a beginning.  E Excuse me one last time, I have checked my sources and find I need to D change one sentence of my earlier Email. The sentence should read...  =    It's an OS that was "Designed" by experts first producing  >    four design iterations, and then the best results of these ?    designs were carried over into a  final design by "The Blue      Ribbon Committee".   C I had thought to have read that the original 4 designs were by four @ competing teams, but I can no longer find a source for this. TheE essential message remains unchanged. OpenVMS was carefully "Designed" ( by experienced operating system experts.  E I'm not interested in changing history for any purpose. I do stand by 3 my other statements and opinions made in the email.      Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg ) IBM Business Services - Hannover, Germany    Semi-Nonstandard Disclaimer:3 Any non-official claims concerning my semi-official + opinions are hereby officially disclaimed.    i.e. I said it, not my employer.0 (and no I didn't steal this one from Yogi Berra)  ? I welcome rebuttal, however a lack of response on my part only  > indicates a lack discretionary time to indulge in discussions ' peripheral to my employment activities.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:32:51 +0200 * From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... - Message-ID: <c5p1rs$1tbl$1@news.cybercity.dk>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0404160520.13ddd8f7@posting.google.com... E > Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorize  > and separateH > Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a	 > minimum F > for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings > happens toE > be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS has  > four. G > OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified as  > requiring  > special named privileges.   K There is an important difference between Unix and VMS.  In Unix the command I language interpreter is executed in a process separate from the processes L executing user programs.  In VMS DCL is executed in the same process as userL programs.  VMS needs supervisor mode to separate DCL and DCLs data from userD programs.  Unix does not have that need because the command languageG interpreter's code and data a protected by being in a separate process. I Please tell me why the VMS is way of doing things is more secure than the 	 Unix way.   8 >  - allow access to higher mode services only through a > DESCRIPTOR-basedF >    calling standard which rules out "by design" the primary cause of
 > securityG >    holes - buffer-overflows. The secure Calling Standard is a central  > design >    theme in OpenVMS.  H I think we all have realized that the zero terminate strings of Unix mayA cause many problems with buffer overflows.  However, the projects I implementing internet services Unix or Linux know this problem.  They are I avoiding calling system calls which may return zero terminated strings of J unknown length, and they implement libraries with call interfaces with theK same benifits as VMSes descriptors.  This makes most of this argument void. L So much more because VMS has a descriptor class for zero terminated strings,G and if you use that, then you have the same problems as Unix and Linux. H Further, it is up to the coders to make sure that the information in theK descriptors are right.  Thus, you are in a situation where security on both ; platforms depend on coders coding to profesional standards.   H >  - design privilege assignments to be attached to a mode. If a programE >    installed in a higher mode breaks out to a user-mode prompt. All E >    privileges assigned during the program run must be automatically  > lost. E >    This prevents program privilege tailgating. OpenVMS Hackers (yes  > they@ >    do exist, an admirably persistent if unsuccessful lot) have
 > recently; >    discovered this functionality in OpenVMS, inwhich they  > intentionally H >    installed an application with privileges and with a buffer overflow	 > leading G >    to a DCL prompt. Their experiment failed. This OpenVMS "knockdown" C >    functionality can also be extended to disable the privilege of A >    receiving a DCL Prompt when breaking out of a program or DCL  > procedure,G >    just by assigning the CAPTIVE and RESTRICT flags to user accounts.   E This seems to be a security problem that origin from VMS running user J programs in the same process as the command language interpreter.  Bob andJ Keith, are you sure this is not a security problem that is only present onI VMS and only because of the way VMS is designed?  It seems to me that VMS I has a complex solusion to a problem that is not present on Unix.  Complex 5 solusions are always bad to security because of bugs.   D On Unix it is easy to implement a command language interpreter whichE implements only a few commands.  On VMS you have to be carefull while I writing command procedures for captive commands or you will have security G problems.  I fail to se that VMS is better than Unix on this point.  It  might be worse.   B >  - design your Unix to provide only strictly separated (and from
 > overflowA >    controlled) user and system stacks to prevent stack crashing 	 > leading ( >    to access to higher mode functions.  L Can you tell me of any modern Unixes that do not implement this in practise?  H >  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism to >    be carried out by one  L Something seems to be missing here.  I guess you wanted to write that on VMSK there is only one routine that checks who may logon on.  Do you know of any  Unixes where it is not so?   Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:54:26 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> G Subject: RE: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIKEKDDBAA.tom@kednos.com>      -----Original Message-----1   From: Karsten Nyblad [mailto:nospam@nospam.com]n&   Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 9:33 AM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComUI   Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...       7   "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9   news:d7791aa1.0404160520.13ddd8f7@posting.google.com...rG   > Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorizea   > and separateJ   > Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a   > minimumiH   > for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings   > happens toG   > be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS hast	   > four.nI   > OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified asm
   > requiringo   > special named privileges.u  A   There is an important difference between Unix and VMS.  In Unix 
   the commandOK   language interpreter is executed in a process separate from the processesV>   executing user programs.  In VMS DCL is executed in the same   process as users?   programs.  VMS needs supervisor mode to separate DCL and DCLsu   data from userF   programs.  Unix does not have that need because the command languageI   interpreter's code and data a protected by being in a separate process.sK   Please tell me why the VMS is way of doing things is more secure than thee   Unix way.s  :   >  - allow access to higher mode services only through a   > DESCRIPTOR-basedH   >    calling standard which rules out "by design" the primary cause of   > securityI   >    holes - buffer-overflows. The secure Calling Standard is a centrals
   > design   >    theme in OpenVMS.  J   I think we all have realized that the zero terminate strings of Unix mayC   cause many problems with buffer overflows.  However, the projectsnK   implementing internet services Unix or Linux know this problem.  They are K   avoiding calling system calls which may return zero terminated strings of L   unknown length, and they implement libraries with call interfaces with the>   same benifits as VMSes descriptors.  This makes most of this   argument void.:   So much more because VMS has a descriptor class for zero   terminated strings,-I   and if you use that, then you have the same problems as Unix and Linux.0J   Further, it is up to the coders to make sure that the information in the<   descriptors are right.  Thus, you are in a situation where   security on both=   platforms depend on coders coding to profesional standards.   L Of course, if you had used PL/I instead of C then you wouldn't have had this problem in the first place.e  J   >  - design privilege assignments to be attached to a mode. If a programG   >    installed in a higher mode breaks out to a user-mode prompt. AlluG   >    privileges assigned during the program run must be automaticallyl	   > lost.tG   >    This prevents program privilege tailgating. OpenVMS Hackers (yest   > theyB   >    do exist, an admirably persistent if unsuccessful lot) have   > recently=   >    discovered this functionality in OpenVMS, inwhich they.   > intentionallyeJ   >    installed an application with privileges and with a buffer overflow   > leading I   >    to a DCL prompt. Their experiment failed. This OpenVMS "knockdown"hE   >    functionality can also be extended to disable the privilege of-C   >    receiving a DCL Prompt when breaking out of a program or DCL    > procedure,I   >    just by assigning the CAPTIVE and RESTRICT flags to user accounts.:  G   This seems to be a security problem that origin from VMS running userDL   programs in the same process as the command language interpreter.  Bob andL   Keith, are you sure this is not a security problem that is only present onK   VMS and only because of the way VMS is designed?  It seems to me that VMS K   has a complex solusion to a problem that is not present on Unix.  Complexl7   solusions are always bad to security because of bugs.s  F   On Unix it is easy to implement a command language interpreter whichG   implements only a few commands.  On VMS you have to be carefull while K   writing command procedures for captive commands or you will have securitysI   problems.  I fail to se that VMS is better than Unix on this point.  It    might be worse.o  D   >  - design your Unix to provide only strictly separated (and from   > overflowC   >    controlled) user and system stacks to prevent stack crashinge   > leading *   >    to access to higher mode functions.  A   Can you tell me of any modern Unixes that do not implement this    in practise?  J   >  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism to   >    be carried out by one  B   Something seems to be missing here.  I guess you wanted to write
   that on VMSnA   there is only one routine that checks who may logon on.  Do you-
   know of any    Unixes where it is not so?     Karsten Nyblad!   ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot come       ---o(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 4/8/2004n   ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 4/8/2004    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:26:09 GMTd4 From: "Roert G. Schaffrath" <rschaffrath@yahoo.com>G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... % Message-ID: <40801732.7838@yahoo.com>e   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > E > Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorize2 > and separateH > Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a	 > minimum.F > for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings > happens toE > be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS hasd > four.tG > OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified as  > requiringt > special named privileges.e  C Just curious, but when did DEC/Compaq/HP get a patent on the use ofeH three or more rings?  Data General used an eight ring system starting inF 1980 on their MV series of computers in conjunction with AOS/VS.  EachG ring was 512MB of memory.  Rings 4 through 7 were the "user" rings withtG user programs usually residing in ring 7 (the least privileged).  Users B could load rings 4 through 6 with a properly encoded "Gate Array".  H Rings 0 through 3 were the "system" rings with the OS living in ring 0. G Applications in ring 0 could issue privileged instructions such as HALTlG and PATU (Purge Address Translation Unit).  Ring 3 contained the system/F service "Agent" (there was an undocumented AOS/VS privilege call "LoadG System Ring" which allowed a process to load rings 0 through 3 which is $ how "Agent" got loaded into ring 3).  E I always thought DG's ring system was nicer than the VAX's system butlH you worked with what you had and I found User, Supervisor, Executive and Kernel to be perfectly fine.   Robert   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:17:30 -0700. From: mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) Subject: Re: Kind of farewells= Message-ID: <7500353b.0404160617.28f6e3b0@posting.google.com>e  K > Today, they^H^H^H^H we sell Apple, Fujitsu, Sage Accounting software and  N > networking. The "merge" will bring to the new DTL the HP reseller card, VMS E > consulting (if any) and the FutureVAX/CHARON-VAX serie of products.- > S > As I move from technique to management, I will probably stop reading newsgroups, lR > so do not worry about missing posts, this will mean that I will be busy dealing O > with costs control, budget, quality control, procedures, human resources and u$ > other strategical accounts rescue. >  > Good luck to VMS.+? > If HP France wants to sell VMS to Airbus, please let me know.o > 0 > Best regards to all of you and a HAPPY EASTER.  B Au Revoir Didier :) And good luck :) The only thing I can say thatC although I first entered a vax on 79 and have left these systems to C others in 2000, I still peek and poke here every so often, so maybe F you find yourself peeking here too on quiet hours :) Anyway, thank youC for the about the only kind words someone has ever given me on this> forum :)   Mf   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 05:31:38 -0700. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)# Subject: Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS>< Message-ID: <224291b.0404160431.47ac2739@posting.google.com>   > LINK /EXEC=BGGEN.EXE /NoDebuga. > bggen.obj,Sys$Disk:[]DECC_OPTIONS.OPT/Option) > %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 23 undefined symbols:a > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XFreeg > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XGetGeometry > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XLookupColor > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XOpenDisplay  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XParseGeometry > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XQueryTree > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$find_filei# > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$find_file_endv  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$set_symbol > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$sfree1_dd  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$spawnf > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$assign > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$closes > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$crembx > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$dassgn > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$dclexh > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$getdviwn > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$getsyiwl > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$open > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$qio  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$qiow > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$setefa > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$synch   @ All these symbols look like entry points you would probably haveA included except that they are in lower/mixed case where the entry   point you want is in upper case.  @ Most likely this is because you compiled with the "/Names=AS_IS"B qualifier. Alternatively, you may have included a header file withF "#pragma names" in it without a save and restore in the header file soE that the pragma setting got changed globally rather than just for the4 one header.e   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:50:28 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t# Subject: Re: Linking XV for OpenVMSu3 Message-ID: <BlVQc9pNurAy@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  X In article <407ef4b8$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>, "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:  H    It looks like you're having case sensitivy issues.  All the followingF    symbols are defined in uppercase.  Generally you should not need toG    compile with the /names=as_is option, which will cause this problem.t  ?    If you must compile with /names=as_is, you'll need to changetC    all references to the following to be in uppercase.  One way of vF    doing that is to add some #define that do so, the the original code    retains it's look.    > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XFreen > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XGetGeometry > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XLookupColor > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XOpenDisplay  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XParseGeometry > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XQueryTree > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$find_file-# > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$find_file_endn  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$set_symbol > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$sfree1_dd0 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$spawn4 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$assign > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$closec > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$crembx > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$dassgn > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$dclexh > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$getdviwr > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$getsyiw_ > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$open > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$qioc > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$qiow > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$setefw > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$synchU   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:40:20 -0700w* From: "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com># Subject: Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS + Message-ID: <40800c76$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>e  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:BlVQc9pNurAy@eisner.encompasserve.org...C5 > In article <407ef4b8$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>, "Alder"n$ <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes: >c@ >    It looks like you're having case sensitivy issues.  All the	 followingh& >    symbols are defined in uppercase.  H The documentation for the LINK utility states that an empty string valueG specified with the "/INCLUDE" qualifier will cause the linker to searchoD a standard set of system libraries.  In the MMS file for XV the LINKF operation uses an "/INCLUDE" qualifier with a value that begins with a set of square brackets  G     /Include = ([]$(JPEGINCLUDE)$(TIFFINCLUDE)$(ZINCLUDE)$(PNGINCLUDE))a  @ Is this equivalent to the "empty string" refered to in the docs?  F Which libraries might I start looking in for these particular symbols?@ They don't seem to be in the libraries specific to the XV build.  # >  Generally you should not need tol@ >    compile with the /names=as_is option, which will cause this problem.  F It was my feeble attempt to resolve another set of "undefined" symbols@ that I was getting before I added the "/NAMES=(AS_IS,SHORTENED)"B qualifier.  They all related to the third-party imaging libraries:" LibJPEG, LibPNG, and LibTIFF, i.e.       ...lH     LINK /EXEC=XV.EXE /NoDebug xv.obj,Sys$Disk:[]DECC_OPTIONS.OPT/Option+     %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 70 undefined symbols:r/     %LINK-I-UDFSYM, JPEG_CALC_OUTPUT_DIMENSIONSB     ...e+     %LINK-I-UDFSYM, PNG_CONVERT_FROM_TIME_T9     ...r     %LINK-I-UDFSYM, TIFFCLOSE0     ...8B     %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol JPEG_CALC_OUTPUT_DIMENSIONS
 referenced%     in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000300 <     in module XVJPEG file DISK$NET:[XV-3_10A-VMS]LIBXV.OLB;1     ... H     %MMK-F-ERRUPD, error status %X10648268 occurred when updating target XV.EXE  @ The symbols from my other third-party library, LIBZ, are gettingB resolved OK when I leave out the linker's "/NAMES" qualifier.  TheH difference seems to be that all the symbols in LIBZ are defined in lowerE case, according to the output of the LIBRARY/NAMES/LIST command.  TheXD symbols in the three imaging libraries appear to be defined in mixed case.a  , Any suggestions for what steps to take next?   Many thanks,   Terryl   >hA >    If you must compile with /names=as_is, you'll need to change D >    all references to the following to be in uppercase.  One way ofH >    doing that is to add some #define that do so, the the original code >    retains it's look.  >r > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XFreei  > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XGetGeometry  > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XLookupColor  > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XOpenDisplay" > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XParseGeometry > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XQueryTree! > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$find_file % > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$find_file_end " > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$set_symbol! > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$sfree1_dd- > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, lib$spawnS > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$assign > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$close  > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$crembx > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$dassgn > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$dclexh > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$getdviw- > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$getsyiw- > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$open > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$qio0 > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$qiow > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$setefR > > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$synch-   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 12:35:51 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: Linking XV for OpenVMSy3 Message-ID: <nGK+S3qMP7c1@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  X In article <40800c76$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>, "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes: > J > The documentation for the LINK utility states that an empty string valueI > specified with the "/INCLUDE" qualifier will cause the linker to searchrF > a standard set of system libraries.  In the MMS file for XV the LINKH > operation uses an "/INCLUDE" qualifier with a value that begins with a > set of square brackets > I >     /Include = ([]$(JPEGINCLUDE)$(TIFFINCLUDE)$(ZINCLUDE)$(PNGINCLUDE))u  H    [] on VMS is not an empty string when used as a directory spec.  It'sJ    shorthand for the current directory (and current device when used with     the MCR command).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:53:54 +0200o* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... 9 Message-ID: <c5oe02$37n2f$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>s   Chuck Chopp wrote: > Bob Ceculski wrote:8 > 7 >> it's too bad HP can't seem to help it on its way outM5 >> using OpenVMS as the doorman ... and if users wanty6 >> help, VMS has plenty of that and is ready to go out$ >> of the box as far as security ... >> >>, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15343 >  >  > E > LOL.  I wonder if Ms. Levesque is a dirty sock puppet belonging to nH > Micro$oft or $un.  It certainly seems like she's pushing an agenda of K > some sort, as her comments used in that article seem to be badly off the gJ > mark.  If she was examining Linux systems from 5 or 6 years ago, yes, I K > can see how the desktop shell, system administration & O.S. installation  K > procedures & tools would have been unfriendly to non-technical users.  I mH > have never been what you'd call a sophisticated Unix/Linux user/admin K > type of person, but recent experiences installing SuSE Linux v9 Pro were aC > so positive for me that I'm just overjoyed to be working with it eI > hands-on.  The system installation tool, YaST, is the best of its type eJ > that I've ever dealt with.  Overall, SuSE 9 has been easier to install,  > configure & use than WinXP.n > I > As for her statements about the Open Source development process, she's iJ > completely off the mark there, too.  Again, she's spouting off nonsense I > in a way that seems [alarmingly] plausible to people who are otherwise m6 > ignorant of the topic of which she's speaking about. > I > I vote for putting a muzzle on her, along with that other writer [from sG > the Gartner Group?] who was commented about on here not long ago for -H > having made such blatanly inaccurate remarks about OpenVMS.  Either a J > muzzle, or else stand up and give full disclosure by citing the sources J > of her research. For a researcher, she seems to speak a lot of rhetoric & > and very little in the way of facts. >  >   E Try reading the original paper rather than the selected extracts the -# author of the article has included.-  A In her conclusion, she is clearly giving constructive criticism, eC suggesting measures the Open Source community should take to avoid ) scaring off new users.  > http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue9_4/levesque/index.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:23:35 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...t: Message-ID: <K4Cfc.49798$Lh2.15980@bignews1.bellsouth.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:O   > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c5m5co$dd8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...a > ? > what they are really saying is that unix/linux is convuluted, B > has no security, has cert warnings galore, has lousy clustering,? > has lousy uptime (see techwise report) and only a fool, or inP& > many cases fools, will use it ... :)    K If that was what the researcher and/or the author of that article intended  : to say, then why couldn't they put it down in those words?  I Some of us *have* to work with Linux and other operating systems because  J DEC/Compaq/HP has done such a lousy job marketing OpenVMS.  It isn't that J we've jumped ship for any dislike of OpenVMS, but when 100% of my clients I dumped OpenVMS in favor of IBM's RS/6000 and/or AS/400 systems, HP-UX or iM HP's MPE/ix on HP3000 systems, that pretty much leaves me with finding other rK work... and in many times it is Windows/NetWare/Linux.  I'd really like to pK be doing work with OpenVMS full time, but those days are *over* unless I'm uK willing to relocate every 3 to 6 months to chase down OpenVMS related work @ around the country.   K I do agree that clustering on every other server platform has been a joke. bK I still don't see a distributed lock manager in other clustering solutions  G to allow for concurrent access to file systems from multiple clustered aK nodes.  The most popular of the Windows/NetWare/Linux clustering solutions dM provide more of a fail-over rather than a loosely-coupled type of clustering hK environment.  I laugh everytime I see one of those other operating systems  / being touted as having clustering capabilities.v     -- o Chuck Chopph  8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:27:05 GMTH$ From: "GreyCloud" <mist@Cumulus.com>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...@8 Message-ID: <Z_Dfc.1744$Wc4.6438@bcandid.telisphere.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:c# > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy : > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message. > news:<c5m5co$dd8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > ? > what they are really saying is that unix/linux is convuluted,dB > has no security, has cert warnings galore, has lousy clustering,? > has lousy uptime (see techwise report) and only a fool, or in & > many cases fools, will use it ... :)  K At least it would be much better than Microsoft products.  There isn't muchd$ security with their products at all.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 06:15:28 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0404160515.130b2650@posting.google.com>k  ~ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<407F3A87.92BD1C5B@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > 8 > > it's too bad HP can't seem to help it on its way out6 > > using OpenVMS as the doorman ... and if users want7 > > help, VMS has plenty of that and is ready to go out % > > of the box as far as security ...r > > - > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15343e > 
 > Um, Bob? > H > The info in that article is behind the times. Everyone from Red Hat toA > Novell, Mandrake, etc. is working on making Linux not only morea$ > prevalent, but more user-friendly. > I > Read much lately about the upsurge in Linux, both on the desktop and ina > the datacenter?n  C Um, Dave ... VMS is already user friendly, has the best clustering,vC and actually has security ... why reinvent the wheel?  Just becaused@ everyone else is jumping off the cliff doesn't mean we are goingE to ... the are leaders and followers ... the leaders will prevail ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:16:27 GMT $ From: "GreyCloud" <mist@Cumulus.com>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...a8 Message-ID: <vFTfc.1751$Wc4.6688@bcandid.telisphere.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Chuck Chopp wrote: >> Bob Ceculski wrote: >>% >>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo< >>> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message0 >>> news:<c5m5co$dd8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>> A >>> what they are really saying is that unix/linux is convuluted,ID >>> has no security, has cert warnings galore, has lousy clustering,A >>> has lousy uptime (see techwise report) and only a fool, or ine( >>> many cases fools, will use it ... :) >> >> >>D >> If that was what the researcher and/or the author of that articleF >> intended to say, then why couldn't they put it down in those words? >>C >> Some of us *have* to work with Linux and other operating systemsnE >> because DEC/Compaq/HP has done such a lousy job marketing OpenVMS.,G >> It isn't that we've jumped ship for any dislike of OpenVMS, but when E >> 100% of my clients dumped OpenVMS in favor of IBM's RS/6000 and/or F >> AS/400 systems, HP-UX or HP's MPE/ix on HP3000 systems, that prettyD >> much leaves me with finding other work... and in many times it isG >> Windows/NetWare/Linux. I'd really like to be doing work with OpenVMS F >> full time, but those days are *over* unless I'm willing to relocateD >> every 3 to 6 months to chase down OpenVMS related work around the >> country.o >>G >> I do agree that clustering on every other server platform has been ao> >> joke. I still don't see a distributed lock manager in otherF >> clustering solutions to allow for concurrent access to file systems: >> from multiple clustered nodes.  The most popular of the? >> Windows/NetWare/Linux clustering solutions provide more of a"= >> fail-over rather than a loosely-coupled type of clusteringiE >> environment.  I laugh everytime I see one of those other operatingr: >> systems being touted as having clustering capabilities. >> >l# > Well you haven't looked very far.n >v > How about looking here.r >e< > http://www.sun.com/storage/software/data_mgmt/performance/ >s) > Incedentally this is not a new product.p >e > Who is laughing now ?e >O  @ He still is laughing.  Like he said, he found the others a joke.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:27:06 +0100y> From: Andrew Harrison <andrew.d.harrison_remove_the_d@sun.com>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...l0 Message-ID: <c5p2k1$fet$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   GreyCloud wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>Chuck Chopp wrote: >> >>>Bob Ceculski wrote: >>>  >>>i% >>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo< >>>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message0 >>>>news:<c5m5co$dd8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>>A >>>>what they are really saying is that unix/linux is convuluted, D >>>>has no security, has cert warnings galore, has lousy clustering,A >>>>has lousy uptime (see techwise report) and only a fool, or inr( >>>>many cases fools, will use it ... :) >>>  >>>e >>>nD >>>If that was what the researcher and/or the author of that articleF >>>intended to say, then why couldn't they put it down in those words? >>> C >>>Some of us *have* to work with Linux and other operating systemsPE >>>because DEC/Compaq/HP has done such a lousy job marketing OpenVMS.pG >>>It isn't that we've jumped ship for any dislike of OpenVMS, but whenpE >>>100% of my clients dumped OpenVMS in favor of IBM's RS/6000 and/or F >>>AS/400 systems, HP-UX or HP's MPE/ix on HP3000 systems, that prettyD >>>much leaves me with finding other work... and in many times it isG >>>Windows/NetWare/Linux. I'd really like to be doing work with OpenVMShF >>>full time, but those days are *over* unless I'm willing to relocateD >>>every 3 to 6 months to chase down OpenVMS related work around the >>>country.  >>> G >>>I do agree that clustering on every other server platform has been ae> >>>joke. I still don't see a distributed lock manager in otherF >>>clustering solutions to allow for concurrent access to file systems: >>>from multiple clustered nodes.  The most popular of the? >>>Windows/NetWare/Linux clustering solutions provide more of a = >>>fail-over rather than a loosely-coupled type of clustering E >>>environment.  I laugh everytime I see one of those other operatingb: >>>systems being touted as having clustering capabilities. >>>4 >># >>Well you haven't looked very far.b >> >>How about looking here.e >>< >>http://www.sun.com/storage/software/data_mgmt/performance/ >>) >>Incedentally this is not a new product.s >> >>Who is laughing now ?e >> >  > B > He still is laughing.  Like he said, he found the others a joke. >  > % I think you need to re read his post.   > He said he didn't find anything that allowed concurrent access- to filesystems from multiple clustered nodes.c  9 He has now been shown one and his laughing days are over.i  7 Unless you think he has actually tried QFS ! do you ???n   Regardss Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 10:44:09 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...c= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0404160944.41bdb6b8@posting.google.com>p   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c5oh4n$9i3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  > Who is laughing now ?n > 	 > regardsk > Andrew Harrison"  > and here is how to put unix on the same level security wise as0 VMS ... read it and you will not be laughing ...    C Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorize  and separateF Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a minimumrD for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings
 happens toC be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS hasr four.pE OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified as 	 requiring  special named privileges.    And, then...  6  - allow access to higher mode services only through a DESCRIPTOR-basedD    calling standard which rules out "by design" the primary cause of securityE    holes - buffer-overflows. The secure Calling Standard is a centrals design    theme in OpenVMS.  F  - rewrite and install your TCP/IP stack so that it doesn't live in orB    directly access kernel mode services except through the calling	 standard.b@    If the previous condition was met, your tcp/ip stack probablyD    won't work in Supervisor mode or User Mode without these changes.B    This is the reason why most security holes for which OpenVMS isA    affected does not in fact lead to a security vulnerability. In F    this sense I agree with Andrew. Security vulnerability listings are9    innaccurate for OpenVMS. Because they do not correctlya
 differentiatedE    whether only a user-mode process can be affected or a higher mode,bD    and whether a higher privilege can be attained. A correct listing>    must rate the severity of the security hole. In OpenVMS the severityE    is usually lower (or meaningless) in comparison to other operatingh    systems.l  F  - design privilege assignments to be attached to a mode. If a programC    installed in a higher mode breaks out to a user-mode prompt. AllhC    privileges assigned during the program run must be automaticallya lost. C    This prevents program privilege tailgating. OpenVMS Hackers (yest they>    do exist, an admirably persistent if unsuccessful lot) have recently9    discovered this functionality in OpenVMS, inwhich they 
 intentionallysF    installed an application with privileges and with a buffer overflow leadingaE    to a DCL prompt. Their experiment failed. This OpenVMS "knockdown"tA    functionality can also be extended to disable the privilege ofr?    receiving a DCL Prompt when breaking out of a program or DCLo
 procedure,E    just by assigning the CAPTIVE and RESTRICT flags to user accounts.l  @  - design your Unix to provide only strictly separated (and from overflow?    controlled) user and system stacks to prevent stack crashingl leadingl&    to access to higher mode functions.  F  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism to    be carried out by one  @ These are only a few of the unique, patented design decisions in OpenVMSiC resulting in a world-beating matrix of Functionality, Reliability, ,D Availability, Security, Stability, and Scalability(RT, APMP, SMP andF Cluster). It's an OS that was "Designed" first by 4 competing teams of experts,E and then the best results of these competing design teams merged intod ae? final design team. They knew of the older Unix, MVS and Multicss designs, andD naturally they innovated and improved on them for the Enterprise OS  problem space.  A When you are done making these elementary design changes to Unix  A (many of which were intentionally excluded or ignored by the Unixt	 designers F in 1969 - Multics already had early forms many of them) you will find A most of the commercial products on the Unix Market will no longerr functionF correctly on your New-Unix, and will also require a redesign, and then
 a rewrite.  ? But at least you will finally have an OS and TCP/IP stack which @ "begins" to technically compare with OpenVMS within the frame of	 security.eF And you'll have a product which pays royalties to OpenVMS Engineering.  F Each OS has it's strengths and weaknesses in design and implementationE which will have a different evaluation depending on the problem spacei? it will be applied to, and depending on the design goals of thee
 designers.> For the general Enterprise OS problem space, I believe OpenVMS Engineerings; has most consistently made the best decisions in design ando implementeds? them with an admirably consistent high quality and methodology.o  E OpenVMS enthusiasts can righteously bemoan that the Computer Science 2A Profession (Informatics) have failed to recognize and teach their  studentsC the sophisticated mechanisms and high principals found in OpenVMS, BD preferring instead to favoritize the minimalistic asthetics of Unix,E or the marketing level sophistication in OS selection. This is a real6> loss for enterpise efficiency (money), mission-critical system	 stabilitynF (lives), and the computer science profession (maturity as a science). @ A more balanced and impartial framework of scientific thought is needed.oF Computer Science needs some independence from commercial and marketing> interests to even discover the value of many existing designs, technologiesD and ideas. The last major papers over OS design were written over 10/ years ago, but their work is far from complete.e  A Critics of OpenVMS should first study and compare it's internals SE (Professional OS comparisons and choices should not be reduced to an oA application layer beauty contest) with an open mind concering OS c> design paradigms, system operations principals and reliability methodologies.A After recovering from the shock, they will likely no longer be as 	 critical.e  E Excuse me. I just noticed I didn't finish writing the last condition.c It should read...   F  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism toF    be carried out by one program/process first created at user request and =    has complete responsibility for the entire login sequence.   @ By the way, that was not by any means a complete list of OpenVMS, design advantages.  It was only a beginning.  E Excuse me one last time, I have checked my sources and find I need to D change one sentence of my earlier Email. The sentence should read...  =    It's an OS that was "Designed" by experts first producing r>    four design iterations, and then the best results of these ?    designs were carried over into a  final design by "The Blue      Ribbon Committee".o  C I had thought to have read that the original 4 designs were by fourp@ competing teams, but I can no longer find a source for this. TheE essential message remains unchanged. OpenVMS was carefully "Designed"z( by experienced operating system experts.  E I'm not interested in changing history for any purpose. I do stand byn3 my other statements and opinions made in the email.      Cheers!i   Keith Cayembergb) IBM Business Services - Hannover, Germany    Semi-Nonstandard Disclaimer:3 Any non-official claims concerning my semi-officialx+ opinions are hereby officially disclaimed. r  i.e. I said it, not my employer.0 (and no I didn't steal this one from Yogi Berra)  ? I welcome rebuttal, however a lack of response on my part only e> indicates a lack discretionary time to indulge in discussions ' peripheral to my employment activities.v   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 10:51:12 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)p= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...m= Message-ID: <734da31c.0404160951.2ddb3be3@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c5m5co$dd8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>..., > Chuck Chopp wrote: > > Bob Ceculski wrote:a > > 9 > >> it's too bad HP can't seem to help it on its way out,7 > >> using OpenVMS as the doorman ... and if users wantp8 > >> help, VMS has plenty of that and is ready to go out& > >> of the box as far as security ... > >> > >>. > >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15343 > >  > >  > > G > > LOL.  I wonder if Ms. Levesque is a dirty sock puppet belonging to nJ > > Micro$oft or $un.  It certainly seems like she's pushing an agenda of M > > some sort, as her comments used in that article seem to be badly off the rL > > mark.  If she was examining Linux systems from 5 or 6 years ago, yes, I M > > can see how the desktop shell, system administration & O.S. installation oM > > procedures & tools would have been unfriendly to non-technical users.  I  J > > have never been what you'd call a sophisticated Unix/Linux user/admin M > > type of person, but recent experiences installing SuSE Linux v9 Pro were uE > > so positive for me that I'm just overjoyed to be working with it aK > > hands-on.  The system installation tool, YaST, is the best of its type tL > > that I've ever dealt with.  Overall, SuSE 9 has been easier to install,  > > configure & use than WinXP.  > >  > = > Why on earth are you grouping MS with Sun in this diatribe.e > ? > Is it because Sun has settled its outstanding litigation withd> > MS having basically got what it wanted from the litigation ? > > > Were you expecting Sun to continue to litigate regardless of > the remedies offered by MS ??  > < > Or is it because you bizarrely think that Sun, by far in a= > way the largest contributor of IP from the commercial spacel; > to the OpenSource space somehow has it in for OpenSource.h > B > Or is it because bizarrely you think that Sun who is the highest? > volume supplier of linux through JDS (based on SuSe which you B > apparently like) is going to endorse an article that slams Linux > because of its usability.  > @ > We would be very unlikely to spend lots of money funding Gnome= > development then spend loads of money integrating Gnome ando9 > non Gnome utilities with a consistent user interface in ? > an attempt to compete against WindowsXP and then endorse thist > article !m > > > Why would we also spend loads of money developing StarOffice? > and developing an OpenSource program arround it is we thoughte= > that the non Windows target environments for it would never<( > cut the mustard from a UI standpoint ? > ? > You seem to have made the classic mistake of confusing action4 > with retoric.o > ? > HP for example talks a wonderfull talk about Linux but reallyrA > only provides commodity platforms to run Linux and what exactly = > is the incremental value in that. If you can come up with ai: > noteworthy HP donation of IP to the OpenSource community; > then please feel free to provide it and don't say portingd: > to Itanium because even Linus is rather ambivilent about > that one.4 > D > IBM talk a wonderfull talk about Linux but see Linux as a fabulous( > opportunity to sell services so ditto. > 7 > I would suggest a little more thought before posting.r  E The thought here is that his opinion is not unique, yes, Sun has made = great things for open source, but apparently not been good at E advertising it, and there have been a string of very strange messagestF from Sun about it's support for Linux over the years. This has had the< effect that Sun has been seen and is seen as a Linux (and asD consequence open source) enemy. This is not something that people inA c.o.v has come up with, actually I believe they just reflect whatu
 others think.H  E HP is selling and supporting Linux servers, that is a very good thingsF for HP _and_ Linux. IBM has also done lots of good thing for Linux andF Sun has done good things for OpenSource and are beginning to make good things for Linux.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 06:33:39 -0700, From: diego.claeys@pandora.be (Romax MANIAX) Subject: Need VAXVMS055 ISO,< Message-ID: <de2a082d.0404160533.58c9585@posting.google.com>   Hi,   / can someone provide me a vax vms 5.5 iso image?  I have my hobyist licences!g   Thanks.b   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 12:31:40 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e( Subject: OpenVMS I64 workstation timing?3 Message-ID: <ScN8SsaS7BO0@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  E    A couple months back I heard from various sources about a possiblen4    low cost developer's workstation for OpenVMS I64.  F    What is available now according to HP's web pages are preconfiguredC    HP-UX or Linux systems and the OpenVMS 8.1 evaluation kit on CD.I  =    I'd like to get some idea of when part numbers and pricingtD    information would be available for a developer's workstation for 5    OpenVMS I64.  Are we looking at the 8.2 timeframe?t  C    I'm trying to replace a 12 year old DEC 3000 M600S and a couple fH    VXT 2000+.  A couple developer's workstations sound just about right,H    if I can get them before October.  If that's not likely, then I'll goE    ahead and price out what's on the web page now (IRRC it was about f%    $8K US when 8.1 started shipping).n    e   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:36:47 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) L Subject: Please visit the bootcamp website, we have added a couple of things= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0404160636.130df996@posting.google.com>i  
 Dear Folks  F At the last Boot Camp we heard that we needed more storage informationA - We listened, we will have a storage block, a Storage VP GeneralPE Session on Wed evening, additionally on Monday and Tuesday there will C be an 18 wheeler truck (storage focused) at the hotel (click on therE the HP Adaptive Enterprise Tour).  Also while you are on the web siteLF you may want to click on the Terry Shannon article to read about a new4 technology that will only be available to attendees.  ) The next boot camp will be in April 2005.N  - If you have any questions please let me know.i   Please distribute.  
 Warm Regards,N SueD   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2004 13:43:53 -0700& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)) Subject: Re: POP3 email timestamp problemD= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0404151243.225a6587@posting.google.com>y  C Problem found.  Suitable applications of "Are you sure" and "PleaselB check again" applied to peecee users at the (remote) site revealedD that in fact, and despite several previous "confirmed" checks to theE contrary, the peecees had all decided to be in a different timezone. w7 Nobody claimed responsibility but red faces were noted.    Silly peecee users... sigh...    Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:20:25 +0200a* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: Postscriptr9 Message-ID: <c5oc19$40qr0$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>e  
 dooley wrote:5m > Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<c5jf2l$2dllu$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>...  >  >>Tom Linden wrote:@ >>  >>>>  -----Original Message-----7 >>>>  From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com]@+ >>>>  Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:55 PMu >>>>  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >>>> Subject: Re: Postscript >>>> >> >> . p >> >>>>  Michael Unger wrote: >>>>N >>>>  > And it still doesn't explain why the PDF documents aren't available on >>>>  > the web. >>>>L >>>>  In fairness, they are available for VMS operating system, and are/were# >>>>  available for TCPIP services.  >>>>P >>>>  I find the HTML rather useless because you cannot search in it, you cannotE >>>>  easily print it (for instance, a single HTML document may be 20N >>>>  pages long,CL >>>>  but you have no way of knowing on which page the paragraph you need is! >>>>  located). With PDF you can.D >>> & >>>Don't most browsers support ctrl-F? >>>l >>A >>No, the problem is that a given manual is split into many HTML d5 >>documents. For example, the DEC C documentation in $H >>SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.CC$ALPHA_HELP_065] consists of 6 PostScript files, E >>and 6 text files, but the HTML equivalent is no less than 227 HTML   >>files, plus 47 .GIFs.D >   >D > I find that installing the ODL on a pc and then using the Windows # > indexing service works very well.D  @ You mean the FastFind (or do I mean FindFast?) stuff on Windows?  I I always used to disable that because it was so resource hungry in terms K9 of what it gave me, though I never tried it with the ODL.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 02:01:49 -0700- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume)a# Subject: Re: Question on processorss= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0404160101.7f2fd884@posting.google.com>d  ` John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote in message news:<P7wfc.3164$jM3.1795@news.cpqcorp.net>... > Nom de Plume wrote:h >  > > @ > > AFAIK, the Opteron is an x86 architecture with 64 bit memoryD > > extensions, with maybe some other additions.  For OpenVMS to runI > > natively, I would think that some intermediary microcode architectureaI > > would have to be built around the Opteron to support things like fouriH > > processing modes versus two.  Is this a requirement, and if so, doesJ > > it add an engineering cost that makes porting OpenVMS to x86-64 a less > > feasible possibility?" > >  > B > Most recent X86s and Opteron have 4 modes.  Not a problem there. > I > The limited register set (even in the full 64-bit mode on the Opteron)  J > is more of a problem with all the Macro-32 code lying around that still ; > thinks it has lots of registers to pass between routines.e  C Four modes, good.  Could not the compiler be modified to handle thegC extra registers in an appropriate fashion (As I look at my Assemblyy6 Language programming for the VAX-11 by Pressman book)?   JMOD   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:40:25 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: Question on processorsD3 Message-ID: <cs857eBPErKq@eisner.encompasserve.org>N  m In article <f401eb7f.0404150507.1eefd22a@posting.google.com>, soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) writes:n > > > AFAIK, the Opteron is an x86 architecture with 64 bit memoryB > extensions, with maybe some other additions.  For OpenVMS to runG > natively, I would think that some intermediary microcode architecture8G > would have to be built around the Opteron to support things like four-F > processing modes versus two.  Is this a requirement, and if so, doesH > it add an engineering cost that makes porting OpenVMS to x86-64 a less > feasible possibility?w  H    If it only has two modes, than as an x86 it isn't compatable with 386
    and later.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:34:53 -0700i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a$ Subject: RE: Reading Apple diskettes9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEJLDBAA.tom@kednos.com>   G I tried using hsf on Linux and it gave me Probe Failed, then dd gave ioi error G so I suspect you are right about the format, the date is 1990.   So the'
 newer Macs can't read this either?e   Tom      -----Original Message-----6   From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:lewis@spyder.mitre.org](   Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 4:11 PM   To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy&   Subject: Re: Reading Apple diskettes    1   "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes in articleDA   <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEIMDBAA.tom@kednos.com> dated Thu, 15 Apr-   2004 11:56:15 -0700:-   >Is it possible on VMS, Tru64 Linux or W2K?M  I   Some of the old Mac diskette formats were variable-speed, so they could A   squeeze more data into the outer sectors.  Disks formatted that 
   way are notM;   going to be compatible with anything except an old Apple.S  L   The newer format is 1.4MB but different from PC 1.44MB.  You'll be able toJ   read that with the right software, which might be available for Windows.  G   Apple hasn't required floppys on their computers since at least 1999.e#   The format is dying, if not dead.p  2   --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@   The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.     ---@(   Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.<   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A   Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 4/8/2004s   --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.655 / Virus Database: 420 - Release Date: 4/8/2004c   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:46:30 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e$ Subject: Re: Reading Apple diskettes3 Message-ID: <HXpldrQg2QKV@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  _ In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEIMDBAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:3  , > Is it possible on VMS, Tru64 Linux or W2K?  C    I haven't seen native MacOS diskettes accessable on any platform D    but MacOS.  However MacOS can deal with PC (FAT) format diskettes>    and there are tools available on all of the above to match.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:07:21 -0400f& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>$ Subject: Re: Reading Apple diskettes8 Message-ID: <j11080d33312f5snba0r9kbh7187i22dna@4ax.com>  H On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:56:15 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  + >Is it possible on VMS, Tru64 Linux or W2K?r >---  N About four years ago, I decided to migrate from Macintosh to PC. I had severalN diskettes and ZIP-100 disks, in Macintosh formats, which I needed to access onI the PC. I bought a product called MacOpener, or something like that, fromlG DataViz. I checked their web site, and they still sell something calledd, MacOpener 2000, which you can read about at:  5 	http://www.dataviz.com/products/macopener/index.htmln  M I had primarily Excel, Word, and Quicken files to convert, and it did the jobnL for me. I used the version I had on Windows 98 original edition, and have no" experience more current than that.I -------------------------------------------------------------------------tI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comnI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only),I -------------------------------------------------------------------------n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:04:25 GMTo0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> Subject: Re: Routing questionf* Message-ID: <JHKfc.408$yD1.5243@attbi_s54>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:   G > In article <sMGfc.23092$P%7.9356@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Jeffreyc3 > Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> writes: r >  > ' >>I would like to set up the following:  >> >>        Remote Usera >>             | >>             V >>         --Internet--  >>         |          |w >>(T1)	|          | (DSL)  >>         V          Vr >>   Firewall 1    Firewall 2c >>         |          |r >>         V          Vn >>        ---------------a >>        [     VMS     ]t >>        ---------------e >>H >>The remote user could access a web server on the VMS box using either F >>t1.company.com or dsl.company.com with each firewall forwarding the G >>connection to the same VMS box. The idea is that if one of the lines  J >>fail, the other would provide a backup path, but both would be links on / >>another site so a user could pick either one.8   (snip)  I > JF Mezei posted a brilliant solution (at least for my case; I think it oG > would apply to yours as well): before "VMS" above, install a NAT/PAT c > router, but backwards.  A If both are on the same net, which could be true if Firewall 1 or F Firewall 2 did NAT, that could work.  Otherwise you need an additionalC NAT router.  Well, a NAT implementation running on FreeBSD or LinuxrA might have enough configuration options to do it, but the typicalt& home DSL/cable/NAT router won't do it.  B It doesn't eliminate a common point of failure, but that might not be too bad.o   -- glena   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:27:22 GMTH6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> Subject: Re: Routing questionn> Message-ID: <e3Sfc.37513$RZ5.12175@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > I > JF Mezei posted a brilliant solution (at least for my case; I think it iG > would apply to yours as well): before "VMS" above, install a NAT/PAT e > router, but backwards. > F I had though about this but it would seem to have the disadvantage of H not showing the real remote ip address in the server logs, which may or  may not be that useful.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:32:44 GMT 6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> Subject: Re: Routing questionr= Message-ID: <g8Sfc.37520$k16.3732@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>o   glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:   >   > > Yes, that is how routing works.  You can use RIP, or another< > routing protocol, so that it will switch if one goes down. >  > 	 > -- glent > H As far as I can see, this would still only use one of the lines to send A data back. Someone outside this group mentioned a box that would mF aggregate multiple connections to the Internet but I am looking for a 5 solution that doesn't have a single point of failure.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 08:50:19 -0700& From: twnews@kittles.com (Thomas Wirt) Subject: Re: Routing question,= Message-ID: <b3531425.0404160750.31e06b81@posting.google.com>>   Jeffrey Coffield wrote: 1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:Z >  >>F >> JF Mezei posted a brilliant solution (at least for my case; I think it? >> would apply to yours as well): before "VMS" above, install ar NAT/PATs >> router, but backwards.n >>H > I had though about this but it would seem to have the disadvantage of J > not showing the real remote ip address in the server logs, which may or  > may not be that useful.e >   C This may depend on your current version of TCPIP, but you should beeF able to put a second IP address on your Alpha NIC.  Then you could useD one address for the T1 and one for the DSL.  This would allow you to@ use static routes.  You could leave the current address for yourC default or preferred Internet connection and add the second address A for your other.  The original address would still be used for all5? inside traffic, but now  all traffic for the secondary InternetSE connection would go to the 2nd IP address on the same ethernet card. lB I have done to adresses (interfaces) on the same card before usingC UCX4.2.  I am now on TCPIP 5.3 and I believe that the feature still.B works.  You treat the addresses like different cards, but they are both bound on the same card.   Thomas Wirt  Systems Managert Kittle's Home Furnishingsr Indianapolis, IN   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 04:06:57 +0930o* From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@vsm.com.au>( Subject: Re: SSL in AST-driven programm?/ Message-ID: <407ed648$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>   # Hi Ruslan, good to see your script.   I Any interest in IPv6?  WASD's just finished being fitted out with it and r4 I'll be looking for some ALPHA/BETA testers shortly.    > Hi !./  >     Have a look to WASD HTTP Server sources.e    7    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/src/httpd/sesolanet.c.  H is the relevant code, though I'd say it's a little difficult to come to E grips with in isolation, and like any event-driven (AST) code, often  C without an obvious thread of execution, doubly difficult to follow.n  G It's been a while since I had to tinker with this aspect so the detail rG is beginning to fade a little but I remember it taking a while to wrap  C my head around the OpenSSL (then SSLeay) BIO requirements and then >@ integrating that with VMS' asynchronous approach.  Mind you the G documentation (at least a couple of commercial publications and vastly yH improved releases from OpenSSL) should make it less of a guess now than 0 in late 1997 when I first started looking at it.  H In my experience ASTs increase the difficulty of most non-trivial tasks C significantly but fortunately are hugely more efficient than other r approaches!u   Ruslan R. Laishev wrote: > Hi !. >     Have a look to WASD HTTP Server sources. >  > Valentin Likoum wrote: > 
 >> Hello all,i >>H >>   We have a TCPIP server AST-driven programm. Now we need to  fasten H >> SSL to it. After reading OpenSSL API docs I realized that it's not a  >> straight task.tI >>   HP OpenSSL for OpenVMS manual says that it's possible to use qio[w] oD >> calls with SSL API (via BIO calls) but it's not clear how and no  >> examples are given.I >>   And the most important: SSL_read and SSL_write calls don't have and xC >> AST routine parameter and no such a beast as ssl$qio[w] exist :)hI >>   Have anybody implemented something like it? Any expirience to share?t >> >>   Thank you.r >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:51:59 +0930h* From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au>( Subject: Re: SSL in AST-driven programm?/ Message-ID: <407eeef0$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>n   Just a test.  Please ignore.< (I was having trouble posting to c.o.v. from my VMS system.)   Mark Daniel wrote:% > Hi Ruslan, good to see your script." > K > Any interest in IPv6?  WASD's just finished being fitted out with it and  6 > I'll be looking for some ALPHA/BETA testers shortly. > 	 >  > Hi !g1 >  >     Have a look to WASD HTTP Server sources.  >  > 8 >   http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/src/httpd/sesolanet.c > J > is the relevant code, though I'd say it's a little difficult to come to G > grips with in isolation, and like any event-driven (AST) code, often  E > without an obvious thread of execution, doubly difficult to follow.- > I > It's been a while since I had to tinker with this aspect so the detail rI > is beginning to fade a little but I remember it taking a while to wrap  E > my head around the OpenSSL (then SSLeay) BIO requirements and then -B > integrating that with VMS' asynchronous approach.  Mind you the I > documentation (at least a couple of commercial publications and vastly  J > improved releases from OpenSSL) should make it less of a guess now than 2 > in late 1997 when I first started looking at it. > J > In my experience ASTs increase the difficulty of most non-trivial tasks E > significantly but fortunately are hugely more efficient than other h
 > approaches!r >  > Ruslan R. Laishev wrote: >  >> Hi !r/ >>     Have a look to WASD HTTP Server sources.  >> >> Valentin Likoum wrote:  >> >>> Hello all, >>> I >>>   We have a TCPIP server AST-driven programm. Now we need to  fasten wI >>> SSL to it. After reading OpenSSL API docs I realized that it's not a   >>> straight task.J >>>   HP OpenSSL for OpenVMS manual says that it's possible to use qio[w] E >>> calls with SSL API (via BIO calls) but it's not clear how and no e >>> examples are given.>J >>>   And the most important: SSL_read and SSL_write calls don't have and D >>> AST routine parameter and no such a beast as ssl$qio[w] exist :)J >>>   Have anybody implemented something like it? Any expirience to share? >>>a >>>   Thank you. >> >> >>   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2004 12:30:25 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)* Subject: Re: Translate SMTP Error Number ?3 Message-ID: <FAroTpAXI3HM@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  W In article <KZOdnT8DipRzLePdRVn-hw@metrocast.net>, "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org> writes:  > F >     i have an ES-45 (VMS 7.3) and an AS-4100 (VMS 7.2). TCPIP / SMTP > Configurations# >     are the same on both systems.  > J >     Outbound E-Mail traffic from one system (ES-45) is ok, Inbound fails > with 'Unresolvable >     domain' complaint. > M >     Outbound E-Mail traffic from other (AS4100) fails, error message in thes > log file is :h > N >     %TCPIP-I-SMTP_SYMBRUN, symbiont is running the queue TCPIP$SMTP_LAKES_01@ >     553  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_COMMANDERR, SMTP command error xxxx.org > K >     Outbound capability is primary goal, Inbound is not really necessary.>N >     Anyone able to translate the TCPIP-E- Error number more clearly? thanks. >   ! UCX 5.x versions and ECO levels ?o  I Does one of the machines relay through the other to the outside world, orcI do they both talk directly to a third mail server ? Do these two machinesn only talk to each other ?a   According to the RFC, 553 is:y  A          553 Requested action not taken: mailbox name not allowedH   Some ideas:-  O Are you trying to relay through a system that isn't setup to support relaying ?i  ( Are your DNS resolvers setup correctly ?  I Have you double checked your SMTP.CONFIG configuration ? You have to havebH an entry in it to allow incoming mail with unresolvable domains through.J If that fixes your incoming mail problem, then you really DO need to check your DNS configuration.h  M If you turn on relaying, you must do it in a secure manner, in order to avoidtI spammers using your host as a relay. You really need to read the manuals,b; which can be found online at http://www.hp.com/go/openvms .u   Simon.   -- tB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:25:15 -0400e" From: "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org>* Subject: Re: Translate SMTP Error Number ?2 Message-ID: <gpmdnaFKYKgBTuPd4p2dnA@metrocast.net>  	 greetingsg  K   yes, i have checked many of the issues you mentioned (thanks much, by the  way!)TK and i've spent enough time with the doc-set to 'presume' i have some ideas.f   evidently not the case.e  H the server in question has TCP V.5-1, ECO-4. the results of 'SHOW ROUTE' seem= to indicate i have destinations & gateways as they should be.'  I i will call HP support for some assistance in reviewing my setup. must bei	 somethingd fundamental i've missed.  
 thanks again.o    G "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote inu5 message news:FAroTpAXI3HM@eisner.encompasserve.org...t< > In article <KZOdnT8DipRzLePdRVn-hw@metrocast.net>, "BillC" <bclark_at_lrgh.org> writes: > > H > >     i have an ES-45 (VMS 7.3) and an AS-4100 (VMS 7.2). TCPIP / SMTP > > Configurations% > >     are the same on both systems.i > >nL > >     Outbound E-Mail traffic from one system (ES-45) is ok, Inbound fails > > with 'Unresolvable > >     domain' complaint. > >rK > >     Outbound E-Mail traffic from other (AS4100) fails, error message in  thei > > log file is :o > >o< > >     %TCPIP-I-SMTP_SYMBRUN, symbiont is running the queue TCPIP$SMTP_LAKES_01gB > >     553  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_COMMANDERR, SMTP command error xxxx.org > >iB > >     Outbound capability is primary goal, Inbound is not really
 necessary.H > >     Anyone able to translate the TCPIP-E- Error number more clearly? thanks.t > >t >.# > UCX 5.x versions and ECO levels ?x >,K > Does one of the machines relay through the other to the outside world, orhK > do they both talk directly to a third mail server ? Do these two machinesp > only talk to each other ?  >h > According to the RFC, 553 is:t > C >          553 Requested action not taken: mailbox name not allowedn >o
 > Some ideas:  >eF > Are you trying to relay through a system that isn't setup to support
 relaying ? >p* > Are your DNS resolvers setup correctly ? >gK > Have you double checked your SMTP.CONFIG configuration ? You have to havepJ > an entry in it to allow incoming mail with unresolvable domains through.L > If that fixes your incoming mail problem, then you really DO need to check > your DNS configuration.o >tI > If you turn on relaying, you must do it in a secure manner, in order toy avoid K > spammers using your host as a relay. You really need to read the manuals,e= > which can be found online at http://www.hp.com/go/openvms ., >  > Simon. >  > --= > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFPsH > SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked	 companies    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 02:18:15 -07000 From: chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk (Chris Doran)' Subject: Re: VAX/VMS-WNT integration...d= Message-ID: <948f0720.0404160118.627bdffb@posting.google.com>   r contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) wrote in message news:<ddf392ea.0404140631.6a8f778e@posting.google.com>...V > I'd like issue the command "at" in a WNT system from VMS system...is there any way ?Q > I can issue Solaris commands from VMS using RSH, but could I use RSH with WNT ?u  D I had RSH from the NT4.0 Server resource kit working for many years.C It enabled me to do editing on VMS (how do people live without filePE versions?) and run a command procedure to FTP files to NT and compilehA and link them. ISTR I had to do a bit of experimentation with thei= login name to get it working, and the required syntax changedaF mysteriously when I got a new NT machine. I can provide a copy of thisD command procedure (or another to do the same thing on HP-UX). But beA warned it will need a lot of customisation. I also have some babypE command procedures that FTP files to/from NT to parallel directories.t  D The bad news is that none of this works on W2k Workstation (it might@ on W2k Server). Worse, it stopped working on NT whilst trying to@ reinstall Oracle, and I've never managed to get RSH going again, though FTP still does.   Christ   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:59:45 -0400g; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam>i$ Subject: We still SELL Alpha Systems0 Message-ID: <107vi9mfijncvd7@news.supernews.com>  0 Just in case some of you didn't realise/realize.  6 We have special offers that are not beatable anywhere.K If you are interested, go to www.islandco.com and put your email address ine the pop-up windowmJ We will send you monthly updates on SPECIAL pricing not available ANYWHERE
 on the web       -- a David B Turner Island Computers US Corporatione 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180e Savannah GA 31404a Tel: 912 447 6622a Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:02:33 GMTr% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>m- Subject: Re: Why VMS advertising is importantn< Message-ID: <d%Afc.8950$vG2.6287@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:aNmdnbmv8YmoReDdRVn-gQ@igs.net... >e2 > "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message6 > news:MQifc.309$KW4.162@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message* > > news:N_qdnXoXAdNR5-DdRVn-gw@igs.net...J > > > Yet another example of why raising the profile of VMS is critical -- > whenD > > > all executives hear about is Windows, Linux, and Solaris...... > > >rG > > > If they don't know about it, ask about it, and they won't buy it.s > > >e > > >e > >a >nL http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=66&ncid=1208&e=10&u=/bw/2004$ > > > 0413/bs_bw/tc200404139334tc146 > > >e > > >mL > > > "....So now, CEOs have "woken up to the fact that they have to be moreK > > > involved and more comfortable asking the hard questions," says DermottE > > > Shorten, a vice-president at Booz Allen. Consequently, computery trainers > > forb: > > > CEOs have become hot commodities. Technology-related executive-educationyK > > > courses have thrived. And today, CEOs are more tech-savvy -- and moree  > > > careful about IT spending. > > >wI > > > Allen Salikof, CEO of Management Recruiters International Worldwideo > (MRI),L > > > says in the mid-1990s, chief execs -- himself included -- made few keyL > > > technology decisions. Today, many approve nearly all of them. "They'veI > > > become less likely to give chief information officers a free hand,"i says > > thecF > > > head of the world's largest managerial, technical, and executive > > recruitmento > > > firm.. > > >n > >iF > > I'm not against advertising VMS but, this seems to argue *against*I > > advertising VMS.  If CEOs are actually being trained,  then HP has tod > either1 > > advertise to the trainers or do the training.v > >-J > > It's the CEOs that don't get training that only know what they read in > trade.	 > > rags.v >sE > Just where would HP advertise to trainers? In "Technology Training"eG > magazine? or perhaps "Mis-Informed Guiding the Un-Informed" magazine?r >o  H Do you think it's easier to advertise to CEOs than it is to advertise to	 trainers?c  K > No, HP has to advertise where the demand will be created...same place theeE > CEO reads his news and entertainment...WSJ, Fortune, Business Week,  AviationK > Week, Economist, Robb Report, The Wine Spectator, ....even in a Sotheby'sa > catalogue if permitted  L If this trend is real, HP would be smart to make sure that the trainers work for HP.c   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 05:43:39 -0700. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)- Subject: Re: Xwindows TCPIP/DECnet forwarding ; Message-ID: <224291b.0404160443.e6e47f4@posting.google.com>l   > E > Beowulf cluster X-windows client ---> TCPIP ---> OpenVMS relay --->r6 > DECnet or TCPIP ---> PC X-windows server (Excursion) ...l >  > > Possibly of use&C > > to you is the DECW$DWT_DECNET image shipped as part of OpenVMS.lL > > This acts as a DECnet display server relaying to a real server using theF > > protocol of choice - although it was originally intended for LAT I2 > > can't see any reason it won't work with TCPIP. > 6 > Excellent!  That's exactly what I was looking for.    D Except, it only provides DECNET for the transport from the client to) the relay, and you seem to require TCPIP.,   > But where's the documentation K > for running it?  I last saw this c. 1992 in some DECwindows manuals which ! > have long since been discarded.   + DECwindows manuals are available online at:   , http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/decwin131.html  B However, I think you are more likely to have seen documentation onA this in the VXT 2000 manuals which are available on the freeware.   2 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/vxt/  D The way I guessed what it does was by reading the list file from the source listings CD.    Martin Kirby   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:34:22 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h- Subject: Re: Xwindows TCPIP/DECnet forwardingk3 Message-ID: <rn3BHIz2HqYs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <SNyfc.147$Ny6.276@mencken.net.nih.gov>, "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb.NOSP@M.cdrh.fda.gov> writes: > M > I thought my statement above was pretty clear, but I'll rewrite what I wantcH > as you did in your reply.  I want all Beowulf cluster X-Windows client* > applications to display on a PC like so: > E > Beowulf cluster X-windows client ---> TCPIP ---> OpenVMS relay --->g6 > DECnet or TCPIP ---> PC X-windows server (Excursion) >   A    If you have DECnet on your PC and an IP stack with a DECnet/IPr8    gateway for X it will do exactly what you have above.  H    If you don't have DECnet on the PC then you could do something I once    did for other reasons:o  M  X client <-IP-> Multinet gateway <-DECnet-> Multinet gateway <-IP-> X serverx  I    You can even do this with the gateways on both ends of the DECnet linke5    on the same system (only one VMS system required).   L    If you don't have an X gateway in the IP stack you're using it should notB    be too hard to write one.  Just figure out how your going to do    security.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:18:03 -0400s< From: "CarlC Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com>! Subject: Re: [ot] DNS Lookup Helph1 Message-ID: <ylAfc.125$yB2.20307@news.uswest.net>r   "Don Sykes" wrote in message7 news:Rtefc.36797$QP5.8720@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...aD > Could someone please do a DNS lookup of my site alphase.com ($ mcr, > SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$NSLOOKUP.EXE ALPHASE.COM)J > When I do one it gets translated at my ISP's DNS server and it's ok, BUT+ > it says it's a "Non-authoritative answer"p6 > A customer says it doesn't translate at all for her.   Don,  G     Since I'm an ISP, I always check mine against dnsreport.com, here's  yours:  > http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=alphase.com  7     It can find some very interesting issues sometimes.S       Hope this helps,     Carl ==================== http://www.carlc.com/-  =       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like."s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:44:52 GMT2& From: Don Sykes <paladin@mydomain.com>! Subject: Re: [ot] DNS Lookup Help > Message-ID: <EKAfc.37185$ed7.30392@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>   CarlC Internet Services wrote: > "Don Sykes" wrote in message9 > news:Rtefc.36797$QP5.8720@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...B > D >>Could someone please do a DNS lookup of my site alphase.com ($ mcr, >>SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$NSLOOKUP.EXE ALPHASE.COM)J >>When I do one it gets translated at my ISP's DNS server and it's ok, BUT+ >>it says it's a "Non-authoritative answer" 6 >>A customer says it doesn't translate at all for her. >  >  > Don, > I >     Since I'm an ISP, I always check mine against dnsreport.com, here'sk > yours: > @ > http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=alphase.com > 9 >     It can find some very interesting issues sometimes.e >  >     Hope this helps,
 >     Carl > ==================== > http://www.carlc.com/0 > ? >       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like."u >  >    Great site Carl. Thanks.  . Everything looks ok, except the line that says  > ERROR: I could not connect to one or more of your mailservers: smtp-relay.pbi.net:K  I Does this mean that pbi.net is not relaying mail records to alphase.com ?a   -- A   Have VMS, Will Travelr Wire paladin, San Franciscoo   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.211 ************************