1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 17 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 212       Contents:? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... ? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... @ Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers Re: Back in the saddle Re: Back in the saddle Re: Back in the saddle Re: DCL Coding Standards> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... Re: Need VAXVMS055 ISO- Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon  PCanywhere and VAX VMS Re: PCanywhere and VAX VMS Re: Question on processors Re: Reading Apple diskettes  Re: Reading Apple diskettes  Routing question Re: Routing question Re: Routing question Re: Routing question Re: Routing question Re: Routing question0 So Andrew, when does the slowaris rewrite start? Re: SSL in AST-driven programm? ) Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Software - RE: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Software - Re: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Software - Re: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Software 6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable Re: VMS/modem setup help?  Re: We still SELL Alpha Systems  Re: We still SELL Alpha Systems  Re: We still SELL Alpha Systems $ Re: Why VMS advertising is important$ Re: Why VMS advertising is important$ Re: Why VMS advertising is important$ Re: Why VMS advertising is important$ Re: Why VMS advertising is important$ Re: Xwindows TCPIP/DECnet forwarding  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 13:49:28 -0700& From: joel-garry@home.com (Joel Garry)H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....= Message-ID: <91884734.0404161249.410cfe28@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<4075B0D5.238E81A3@istop.com>...  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:O > > I think that the minute Andrew decides to quit the conference, you will see O > > a near instantanious dissapearance of any discussion (let alone bashing) of  > > Sun in the conference...   >  > No.  > O > There are those who wish to keep their head in the sand and continue to think H > that VMS rules the world, and there are those who want to see what the > competition is doing.  > P > Considering the way Digital/Compaq/HP ruined VMS, it is important to watch how. > other companies are handling their business.  E Any different from how they handled RSTS?  Besides actually sending a  sunset letter, that is.    jg -- @home.com is bogus. 8 People doling out the money think it is the application.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:42:10 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....0 Message-ID: <c5orck$d08$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Rob Young wrote: > H >>        Very good thing from Intel's and HP's perspective.  After all,J >>        as co-developer you can bet that HP gets a fat Itanium discount. >  > M > And as sole large customer for that IA64 thing, you can bet that HP's large P > fat discounts are going to make it even harder for Intel to ever make money on  > that bloated low volume thing. >   4 Or the list price stays high (most people expect new= CPU's to start expensive and then as volume ramps decrease in ; price. HP's fat discounts if they exist arn't going to help  if the ramp up never happens.    > H >>        Sure - get rid of the UltraSparc boat anchor.  Likewise, ditchG >>        Alpha development.  Fierce competitor?  Bzzzt.  The wind went * >>        out of their sails 3 years back. >  > 1 > Isn't Fujitsu now doing the sparc development ?   < No, Fujitsu is also doing SPARC development. They have their6 own range of SPARC CPU's called SPARC64 which they are developing.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:42:59 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> I Subject: Re: AMD OpteronT Processor Powers New Family of Sun Fire Servers 8 Message-ID: <199v70908kpff6578vbn3ui60rnvsq55f4@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:07:47 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >Nigel Barker wrote:H >> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:26:11 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >>   >>  < >>>Trying in the well tried HP choirister way to compare and> >>>contrast this with the demise of Alpha is only funny if you; >>>arn't an Alpha cutomer. To everyone else its hillarious.  >>   >>  R >> I'm a software guy so ultimately I don't really care what hardware VMS runs on.O >> Mind you if it ran on SPARC the performance would be totally unacceptable to > >> what current Alpha & future Itanium customers would expect. >>   > C >Sounds much more like marketing spin are you in Software marketing  >or sales ?   L I presume that's meant as an insult but I will dignify it by a reply. I haveM over 20+ years under my belt as a VMS programmer, system man gager, Technical L Consultant, application designer, solutions architect etc etc my current jobP title is 'Consultant Strategique' whatever that means. I am not a salesperson or" marketeer now do I play one on TV.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:59:27 -0400 2 From: "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb.NOSP@M.cdrh.fda.gov> Subject: Re: Back in the saddle 3 Message-ID: <k2Wfc.154$Ny6.572@mencken.net.nih.gov>   7 "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:407ffcfa@usenet01.boi.hp.com...J > or that if I turned on my 11/20 after it had been turned off for severalG > months and hit the return key it was still running the program it was ) > running when the power was turned off..   K No way!  I had an 11/20 that was so old, it only called itself a PDP11 (not L 11/20).  We had to toggle in the bootstrap loader via the front panel to getB it to boot.  I can't imagine we would ever do that twice if it hadE non-volatile memory.  Whenever I complained about this, the old guard J regaled me with horror stories of reading the operating system into memoryL via the PAPER TAPE READER on the side of a teletype.  By the time I arrived, at least we had a disk. (:-/   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 07:43:26 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Back in the saddle 3 Message-ID: <CoUZYabV0F+3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <1gbt701ubepfkndas1vtetg0j318nsdgl1@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes:   Q > I still remember thinking how much faster a VAX 11/785 was than the 11/780's we . > were running -- does that date me, or what?!  <    I remember seeing how much slower our 1st 11/780 (sans FO8    accelerator) was than the SEL 32/55 I had been using.  "    But, oh, so much easier to use.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:56:02 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>  Subject: Re: Back in the saddle + Message-ID: <40801E32.3DA1AE85@adldata.com>    David M Smith wrote: > I > On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:43:29 GMT, "GreyCloud" <mist@Cumulus.com> wrote:  >  > >David M Smith wrote:  > H > >> I still remember thinking how much faster a VAX 11/785 was than the= > >> 11/780's we were running -- does that date me, or what?!  > > N > >A bit.  I had fun with old IBM fortran (a model 706 if I recall) with punch6 > >cards.  Took a while to get a program compiled tho. > >  > M > The first computer I programmed "directly" was a PDP-8/E with an ASR-33 and P > toggle switches for input. I remember loading the editor from paper tape, thenN > writing the source to paper tape; then loading the assembler and reading theP > source file 3 times to get the output. I think I loaded the binary in with theM > toggle switches. I was really happy to switch to a disk-based editor when I E > learned about OS/8 (I think it was called) and 8-inch floppy disks.  > K > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- K > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com K > Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------   H I remember a PDP-8I with dectape and fast head-per-track RF disd drives I running TSS-8. We used PAL-8 to assemble 2 large programs: A text editor   and a cross assembler.  J The source was split into multiple files for editing ease. We compiled it M simultaneously in 10 login sessions of ASR33 and ASR38 machines. One session  L generated the object. The rest had XLIST statements in various parts of the G source so that each session generated a different part of the listing.  I It still took over an hour for the whole listing output to be available.    L Of course, no one was able to be in the teletype room while all of them were1 chattering out the listing at 10 char per second.    sol gongola  adl data systems inc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:20:15 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Re: DCL Coding Standards 6 Message-ID: <4080A26F.FEB753E1@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > o > pimpelmees@pandora.be (Pimpelmees) wrote in message news:<576e9651.0404152310.4cca99d0@posting.google.com>... G > > > You mean everything after the missing quote is ignored. OK, but I " > > > never ran into this problem. > > G > > The problem also arise if there are IF syntax errors in the script. z > > Check http://groups.google.be/groups?hl=nl&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22TARGET+OF+GOTO+NOT+FOUND%22&meta=group%3Dcomp.os.vms > > @ > > (I had both but I can no longer reproduce the quote problem) > C > It's beginning to sound like you're recommending as the standard:  > 1 >     "Don't make any mistakes in your DCL code"!  > 	 >     ;-)    Close!  # I was all ready to submit an SPR...   & ...until I discovered a missing ENDIF!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 13:54:12 -0700& From: joel-garry@home.com (Joel Garry)G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... = Message-ID: <91884734.0404161254.19ec490c@posting.google.com>   m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0404160520.13ddd8f7@posting.google.com>... H > And you'll have a product which pays royalties to OpenVMS Engineering.  * And this patent is how old?  Expires when?   jg -- @home.com is bogus.  http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=VMS&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=ptxt    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 15:48:16 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 3 Message-ID: <V5OE9GgK7C2Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <c5p1rs$1tbl$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:  J > I think we all have realized that the zero terminate strings of Unix mayC > cause many problems with buffer overflows.  However, the projects C > implementing internet services Unix or Linux know this problem.     B    Great, meanwhile more code which does not avail itself of theseE    extra levels of protection is being written daily.  Not to mention     what's already out there.  M > there is only one routine that checks who may logon on.  Do you know of any  > Unixes where it is not so?  F    Yes.  Every UNIX I have ever used has logon implemented by at leastC    login and ftpd.  I've had to fix some of those ftpd to do things     login could do.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 15:29:25 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0404161429.4e9d5d17@posting.google.com>   _ "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<c5p1rs$1tbl$1@news.cybercity.dk>... 7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 9 > news:d7791aa1.0404160520.13ddd8f7@posting.google.com... G > > Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorize  > > and separateJ > > Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a > > minimum H > > for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings > > happens toG > > be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS has 	 > > four. I > > OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified as 
 > > requiring  > > special named privileges.  > M > There is an important difference between Unix and VMS.  In Unix the command K > language interpreter is executed in a process separate from the processes N > executing user programs.  In VMS DCL is executed in the same process as userN > programs.  VMS needs supervisor mode to separate DCL and DCLs data from userF > programs.  Unix does not have that need because the command languageI > interpreter's code and data a protected by being in a separate process. K > Please tell me why the VMS is way of doing things is more secure than the  > Unix way.   < I think a quick review of the cert web site will answer that question for you ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:47:12 -0700 * From: "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com># Subject: Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS + Message-ID: <40803845$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>   H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:nGK+S3qMP7c1@eisner.encompasserve.org... 5 > In article <40800c76$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca>, "Alder" $ <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes: > > F > > The documentation for the LINK utility states that an empty string value D > > specified with the "/INCLUDE" qualifier will cause the linker to searchH > > a standard set of system libraries.  In the MMS file for XV the LINKH > > operation uses an "/INCLUDE" qualifier with a value that begins with a  > > set of square brackets > >  > >     /Include =8 ([]$(JPEGINCLUDE)$(TIFFINCLUDE)$(ZINCLUDE)$(PNGINCLUDE)) > D >    [] on VMS is not an empty string when used as a directory spec. It'sF >    shorthand for the current directory (and current device when used with >    the MCR command).  ' Was that a dumb question, or what?  :^)   G I've made a little progress since my first post.  I discovered the /MAP G qualifier of the LINK command and found from its output that my imaging A libraries were not being searched.  I changed the location of the + imaging libraries in the linker option file   
 from this:   libjpeg:libjpeg.olb/library  libpng:libpng.olb/library  libtiff:libtiff.olb/library  libz:libz.olb/library    to this:   LIBJPEG_SHR32 /Shareable LIBTIFF_SHR32 /Shareable LIBPNG_SHR32 /Shareable  LIBZ_SHR32 /Shareable   B to use the shareable images instead, and got this in the map file:  ' %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 26 undefined symbols:  %LINK-I-UDFSYM,   TIFFCLOSE  ... " %LINK-I-UDFSYM,   TIFFWRITERAWTILE3  Module Name     Ident              Bytes      File 3 -----------     -----              -----      ----- H libjpegshr-6b   V1.0                    0 [LIBJPEG]LIBJPEGSHR32-6B.EXE;1) TIFFSHR         LIBTIFF 3.4-032         0 ! SYS$COMMON:[LIBTIFF]TIFFSHR.EXE;3 ) libpngshr-1_2_5 V1.0                    0  [LIBPNG]LIBPNGSHR32-1_2_5.EXE;1 E libzshr-1_2_1   V1.0                    0 [LIBZ]LIBZSHR32-1_2_1.EXE;1   A Odd that the "File" entry for LibTIFF is different than the other G libraries even though the logicals pointing to the shareable images are  defined the same way:    $ SHOW LOGICAL/SYSTEM LIBJPEG*  $   "LIBJPEG" = "SYS$COMMON:[LIBJPEG]"1   "LIBJPEG_SHR32" = "LIBJPEG:libjpegshr32-6b.exe"    $ SHOW LOGICAL/SYSTEM LIBPNG*   "   "LIBPNG" = "SYS$COMMON:[LIBPNG]"1   "LIBPNG_SHR32" = "LIBPNG:libpngshr32-1_2_5.exe"    $ SHOW LOGICAL/SYSTEM LIBZ*      "LIBZ" = "SYS$COMMON:[LIBZ]"+   "LIBZ_SHR32" = "LIBZ:LIBZSHR32-1_2_1.EXE"    $ SHOW LOGICAL/SYSTEM LIBTIFF*  $   "LIBTIFF" = "SYS$COMMON:[LIBTIFF]")   "LIBTIFF_SHR32" = "LIBTIFF:tiffshr.exe"     F Any ideas why the map file is showing the LibTIFF location differently than the others?   Regards,   Terry    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:10:14 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk># Subject: Re: Linking XV for OpenVMS + Message-ID: <c5obe7$g48@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   [ "Alder" <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> wrote in message news:407ef4b8$1@obsidian.gov.bc.ca...   ) > %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 23 undefined symbols:  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, XFree  ...  > %LINK-I-UDFSYM, sys$synch   P Although the linker is case sensitive, for historical and compatibility reasons,F system library routines almost invariably have uppercase entry points.D If you compile /NAMES=AS_IS,  you may need to define macros for some of them.  " e.g. #define  sys$synch  SYS$SYNCH  P On my system (VMS 7.3-1), the system include files define most of these already.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:44:39 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... 6 Message-ID: <407F3A87.92BD1C5B@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > 6 > it's too bad HP can't seem to help it on its way out4 > using OpenVMS as the doorman ... and if users want5 > help, VMS has plenty of that and is ready to go out # > of the box as far as security ...  > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15343    Um, Bob?  F The info in that article is behind the times. Everyone from Red Hat to? Novell, Mandrake, etc. is working on making Linux not only more " prevalent, but more user-friendly.  G Read much lately about the upsurge in Linux, both on the desktop and in  the datacenter?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:11:51 +0200   From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... , Message-ID: <c5ntf8$mc9$1@news.cybercity.dk>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>7 >> it's too bad HP can't seem to help it on its way out 5 >> using OpenVMS as the doorman ... and if users want 6 >> help, VMS has plenty of that and is ready to go out$ >> of the box as far as security ... >>, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15343 > 
 > Um, Bob? > H > The info in that article is behind the times. Everyone from Red Hat toA > Novell, Mandrake, etc. is working on making Linux not only more $ > prevalent, but more user-friendly. > F > Read much lately about the upsurge in Linux, both on the desktop and > in the datacenter?  ? I installed Xandros (in a VMWare virtual machine).  I liked it.   J It is still too *nix like for me, and there are things I simply cannot do,I because there is no wimp interface.  It is not immediately obvious how to L upgrade applications/add applications. Setting up a RAID-1 S-ATA boot device is impossible etc. etc.   I That said, I think any windows user, presented with Xandros (fill in your J favourite distro here) would need about 10 minutes to be fully productive.E For a corporate environment where "user customisation" of desktops is E limited, there seems little reason that a Linux desktop should not be 4 employed, and plenty of reasons to support the idea.  	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:41:23 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... 0 Message-ID: <c5ogpk$9bs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c5m5co$dd8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > ? > what they are really saying is that unix/linux is convuluted, B > has no security, has cert warnings galore, has lousy clustering,? > has lousy uptime (see techwise report) and only a fool, or in & > many cases fools, will use it ... :)    7 Really and that is what you read from the article. What  and interesting mind you have !    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:47:18 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... 0 Message-ID: <c5oh4n$9i3$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Chuck Chopp wrote: > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > % >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  < >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message / >> news:<c5m5co$dd8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >>@ >> what they are really saying is that unix/linux is convuluted,C >> has no security, has cert warnings galore, has lousy clustering, @ >> has lousy uptime (see techwise report) and only a fool, or in' >> many cases fools, will use it ... :)  >  >  > D > If that was what the researcher and/or the author of that article E > intended to say, then why couldn't they put it down in those words?  > K > Some of us *have* to work with Linux and other operating systems because  G > DEC/Compaq/HP has done such a lousy job marketing OpenVMS.  It isn't  I > that we've jumped ship for any dislike of OpenVMS, but when 100% of my  J > clients dumped OpenVMS in favor of IBM's RS/6000 and/or AS/400 systems, J > HP-UX or HP's MPE/ix on HP3000 systems, that pretty much leaves me with H > finding other work... and in many times it is Windows/NetWare/Linux.  J > I'd really like to be doing work with OpenVMS full time, but those days I > are *over* unless I'm willing to relocate every 3 to 6 months to chase  / > down OpenVMS related work around the country.  > G > I do agree that clustering on every other server platform has been a  I > joke. I still don't see a distributed lock manager in other clustering  I > solutions to allow for concurrent access to file systems from multiple  B > clustered nodes.  The most popular of the Windows/NetWare/Linux A > clustering solutions provide more of a fail-over rather than a  K > loosely-coupled type of clustering environment.  I laugh everytime I see  I > one of those other operating systems being touted as having clustering   > capabilities.  >   ! Well you haven't looked very far.    How about looking here.   : http://www.sun.com/storage/software/data_mgmt/performance/  ' Incedentally this is not a new product.    Who is laughing now ?    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:30:12 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... 6 Message-ID: <4080A4C4.120D050A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message news:<407F3A87.92BD1C5B@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>... > > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > > : > > > it's too bad HP can't seem to help it on its way out8 > > > using OpenVMS as the doorman ... and if users want9 > > > help, VMS has plenty of that and is ready to go out ' > > > of the box as far as security ...  > > > / > > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15343  > >  > > Um, Bob? > > J > > The info in that article is behind the times. Everyone from Red Hat toC > > Novell, Mandrake, etc. is working on making Linux not only more & > > prevalent, but more user-friendly. > > K > > Read much lately about the upsurge in Linux, both on the desktop and in  > > the datacenter?  > , > Um, Dave ... VMS is already user friendly,  G Depends on the user. My wife is totally stymied (her company just got a . new system running VMS, never had VMS before).   > has the best clustering,  B Has clustering - PERIOD. The others are a weak imitation, at best.   > and actually has security   F ...until that gets compromised by lax admin.'s or weak applications or middleware.    > ... why reinvent the wheel?   3 Um, Bob? UN*X predates VMS. Who "re-invented" what?    > Just becauseB > everyone else is jumping off the cliff doesn't mean we are going > to ...  D WTF are you babbling about? No one said anything about replacing VMS> with Linux, damnit, they're talking about WhineBloze -> Linux!  , Sometimes your tunnel-vision is frightening!   As to your next remark:    Some folks make things happen, others watch things happen,  the rest wonder what happened.    > the are leaders and followers    ...and then there's hp...   " > ... the leaders will prevail ...  $ ...while hp "wonders what happened".   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:22:33 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: Need VAXVMS055 ISO * Message-ID: <c5qert$1223$1@news.wplus.net>  K "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 0 news:4080A69B.D2C6D485@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > Romax MANIAX wrote:  > >  > > Hi,  > > 3 > > can someone provide me a vax vms 5.5 iso image?  > H > Well, technically, you need an ODS-2 image - VAXes won't boot from ISO > CDs. <SNIP>  F At a guess, as Romax mentions he is a hobbist and is asking for an ISO image, he has SIMH.   K In which case he can attach the whole ISO image file of the CD as a fake CD  drive and boot from that...    Alex   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:45:18 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> 6 Subject: Re: OT - Outsourced customer service - Amazon8 Message-ID: <fm9v705ind79gncsq6dku6ukr5k3rqt913@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:56:12 +0200, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote:    >Well, > H >The answer is in, and now we know why VAT is charged at destination not >source by Amazon.K So it's often cheaper for me to have it delivered to & then collect from my L mother's house on one of my frequent UK visits except occasionally when theyP have special free delivery offers from amazon.fr when the saving on shipping can outweigh th TVA.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:45:51 -0400 6 From: "Dominic Olivastro" <DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com> Subject: PCanywhere and VAX VMS E Message-ID: <32b02$4080351d$44a5e110$18043@msgid.meganewsservers.com>   E Does anyone have any experience with PCAnywhere on a computer that is  connected to VAX VMS?    Here is our setup:A 1.  Several PC's connected via Ethernet to each other and the VAX J 2.  The VAX is running Pathworks server and the PC's are running PathworksE client software.  The PC's often use PowerTerm to connect to the VAX. 6 3.  A remote computer for an employee working at home.K 4.  One PC at work is running PCAnywhere (the host) and the remote computer G is running PCAnywhere (the client).  The remote computer calls up via a  modem.   Here is what we found:; 1.  The remote computer can access the host via PCAnywhere. K 2.  The remote can run any software on the host (eg, Excel, Word, homegrown  software, etc)K 3.  The remote can NOT run PowerTerm, the terminal emulator that comes with 2 Pathworks and allows the user to log into the VAX.  L Of course, the third point is the problem.  Does anyone have experience with this?    Dom    --   Dominic Olivastro  CHI Research, Inc   ! web:   http://www.ChiResearch.com  fax:     1-856-546-9633  voice: 1-856-546-0600 (ext 224) " email:  DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:40:58 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net># Subject: Re: PCanywhere and VAX VMS 6 Message-ID: <4080A74A.73216CFE@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Dominic Olivastro wrote: > 5 > "Tom Crabtree" <tccrab@sunset.net> wrote in message ( > news:c5pefc01hfe@enews3.newsguy.com...K > > > Does anyone have any experience with PCAnywhere on a computer that is  > > > connected to VAX VMS? @ > > I've got a similar setup, but with Alpha's instead of VAX's. >  > > > L > > > 3.  The remote can NOT run PowerTerm, the terminal emulator that comes > with8 > > > Pathworks and allows the user to log into the VAX.I > > We use Hummingbird Exceed, which works just fine for us, but you will + > > need to have TCP/IP running on the VAX. ! > > Why is PowerTerm not working?  > K > When the client computer tries to run PowerTerm on the host, the client's L > connection to the host just dies, and the user is forced to call-up again.E > I've never heard of Hummingbird Exceed, and I don't want to get new 1 > software.  Is anyone using PCAnywhere on a VAX.   G Well, PCanywhere, as it's name implies, doesn't run on VMS on a VAX, or 	 an Alpha.   G That said, the solution you need is a terminal program on the remote PC G that can use the office PC as an IP gateway. Now, technically, that's a > breach of security, but then so is running PowerTerm as you're attempting, sort of.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:13:31 +0100 % From: "L. Blunt" <withheld@my.choice> # Subject: Re: Question on processors @ Message-ID: <407f94f0$0$26195$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com>  H This is probably a silly idea, but if a x86-64 port was attempted, wouldI looking at the VAX branches of Macro-32 source be a better bet. They have I the same number of primary registers (just wider x86-64). The only tricky F bit would be floating point, as there are separate registers for that.  J Also outside of HP, how much Macro-32 do you think there is that uses moreK than 16 registers, from my admittedly limited experience (non-kernel code), C software ported from VAX to Alpha had the minimum done to Macro-32.    Laurence Blunt  3 "John Reagan" <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote in message , news:P7wfc.3164$jM3.1795@news.cpqcorp.net... > Nom de Plume wrote:  >  > > @ > > AFAIK, the Opteron is an x86 architecture with 64 bit memoryD > > extensions, with maybe some other additions.  For OpenVMS to runI > > natively, I would think that some intermediary microcode architecture I > > would have to be built around the Opteron to support things like four H > > processing modes versus two.  Is this a requirement, and if so, doesJ > > it add an engineering cost that makes porting OpenVMS to x86-64 a less > > feasible possibility?  > >  > B > Most recent X86s and Opteron have 4 modes.  Not a problem there. > H > The limited register set (even in the full 64-bit mode on the Opteron)I > is more of a problem with all the Macro-32 code lying around that still ; > thinks it has lots of registers to pass between routines.  >  >  > --
 > John Reagan 1 > HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  > Hewlett-Packard Company  >    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 09:37:51 +0200' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) $ Subject: Re: Reading Apple diskettes+ Message-ID: <o4nZNIBWoqrv@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   _ In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEIMDBAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: , > Is it possible on VMS, Tru64 Linux or W2K? > ---   "  For Windows, look at GEMexplorer:  &  http://www.emulators.com/download.htm  file GEMXPLOR.ZIP .  B  Reads and writes Mac and AtariST volumes and Mac diskcopy images.   --  >    Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Muenchen   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:46:59 +0000 (UTC) . From: Ralph Aichinger <ralph@dolphy.pangea.at>$ Subject: Re: Reading Apple diskettes. Message-ID: <1082103347.416504@news.liwest.at>  " Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:, > Is it possible on VMS, Tru64 Linux or W2K?  0 There is a HFS filesystem for Linux, which reads, floppies just fine, as long as the drive is  able to read them physically.   / So you will be able to read 800k (and possibly  0 single sided 400k, though I've never seen these)3 floppies only on Linux running on old mac hardware.n5 Or maybe there are external USB diskette drives which  can read thes old formats.    5 1.44MB floppies work flawlessly on any PC with Linux.G   HTHS /ralph   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:36:24 GMTF6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> Subject: Routing questione= Message-ID: <sMGfc.23092$P%7.9356@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>-  % I would like to set up the following:4           Remote User               |              V          --Internet--i          |          |s (T1)	|          | (DSL)n          V          Vr    Firewall 1    Firewall 2>          |          |4          V          Vb         ---------------F         [     VMS     ]s         ---------------e  F The remote user could access a web server on the VMS box using either D t1.company.com or dsl.company.com with each firewall forwarding the E connection to the same VMS box. The idea is that if one of the lines EH fail, the other would provide a backup path, but both would be links on - another site so a user could pick either one.-  G The problem is the default route to return the packets appears to only -E allow one gateway back to the internet. What I would like is packets dD coming in on the T1 to go back thru the T1 and the same for the DSL.  = The system has the latest version of VMS and TCP/IP services.3   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 02:07:38 GMTt6 From: Gib Copeland <copeland@not.jenni.path.uiowa.edu> Subject: Re: Routing questioni* Message-ID: <KdHfc.231$gL1.7477@attbi_s54>   Jeffrey Coffield wrote: ' > I would like to set up the following:  >  >        Remote User >             |  >             V  >         --Internet-- >         |          | > (T1)    |          | (DSL) >         V          V >   Firewall 1    Firewall 2 >         |          | >         V          V >        --------------- >        [     VMS     ] >        --------------- > H > The remote user could access a web server on the VMS box using either F > t1.company.com or dsl.company.com with each firewall forwarding the G > connection to the same VMS box. The idea is that if one of the lines 0J > fail, the other would provide a backup path, but both would be links on / > another site so a user could pick either one.c > I > The problem is the default route to return the packets appears to only  G > allow one gateway back to the internet. What I would like is packets SF > coming in on the T1 to go back thru the T1 and the same for the DSL. > ? > The system has the latest version of VMS and TCP/IP services.h >   F Set static routes to whatever networks (t1 or dsl) "Remote User" might be addressed as.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:58:27 +0000 (UTC)kP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Routing question,$ Message-ID: <c5nsm2$aql$1@online.de>  E In article <sMGfc.23092$P%7.9356@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Jeffreyt1 Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> writes: r  ' > I would like to set up the following:  >  >         Remote Users >              | >              V >          --Internet--p >          |          |A > (T1)	|          | (DSL)i >          V          Vh >    Firewall 1    Firewall 2e >          |          |  >          V          V  >         ---------------u >         [     VMS     ]o >         ---------------n > H > The remote user could access a web server on the VMS box using either F > t1.company.com or dsl.company.com with each firewall forwarding the G > connection to the same VMS box. The idea is that if one of the lines -J > fail, the other would provide a backup path, but both would be links on / > another site so a user could pick either one.  > I > The problem is the default route to return the packets appears to only cG > allow one gateway back to the internet. What I would like is packets iF > coming in on the T1 to go back thru the T1 and the same for the DSL.  D I posted a similar question a while back.  At the time, I wanted to I access my hobbyist cluster through DSL or through ISDN.  The problem, as c@ you say, is that the return path is set as a route.  As someone G suggested, you could use static routes, but that would only allow some iH folks to come in through route 1 and some through route 2, which is not  what you want.  G JF Mezei posted a brilliant solution (at least for my case; I think it -E would apply to yours as well): before "VMS" above, install a NAT/PAT U router, but backwards.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:55:44 GMTs0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> Subject: Re: Routing questionh, Message-ID: <ADYfc.6424$yD1.22431@attbi_s54>   Jeffrey Coffield wrote:n   > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:  ? >> Yes, that is how routing works.  You can use RIP, or anothert= >> routing protocol, so that it will switch if one goes down.i  J > As far as I can see, this would still only use one of the lines to send C > data back. Someone outside this group mentioned a box that would fH > aggregate multiple connections to the Internet but I am looking for a 7 > solution that doesn't have a single point of failure.l  8 Yes.  The advantage is that if one router is down it can9 choose to route through the other.   If you have a statica route, it won't do that.   -- glen    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:29:35 GMT 6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> Subject: Re: Routing questionu> Message-ID: <j5Sfc.37519$RZ5.10081@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>   Gib Copeland wrote:o   >0 > H > Set static routes to whatever networks (t1 or dsl) "Remote User" might > be addressed as. >   H The remote user is on the Internet and may choose either path to get in,G so a static route would always send the the packet back on only one of 6
 the lines.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 12:34:53 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Routing question 3 Message-ID: <CUDxPJZzhTw9@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  w In article <e3Sfc.37513$RZ5.12175@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>, Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> writes: 1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:e >> sJ >> JF Mezei posted a brilliant solution (at least for my case; I think it H >> would apply to yours as well): before "VMS" above, install a NAT/PAT  >> router, but backwards.t >>  H > I had though about this but it would seem to have the disadvantage of J > not showing the real remote ip address in the server logs, which may or  > may not be that useful.n  > Probably not feasible, but let me throw it out there anyway...  F Instead of doing NAT on the client's source IP, do NAT on the server's destination IP.:  F So traffic coming in through the one gateway is directed to one serverF alias IP.  And traffic coming through the other gateway is directed at the other server alias IP.  B Now on the return trip you have the problem that you need to route? based on source IP rather then destination IP.  So you throw ins+ a Cisco router and do policy routing.  e.g..  # access-list extended from-one-alias  permit ip host 10.1.1.1 anyt  % access-list extended from-other-aliasn permit ip host 10.2.2.2 any   & route-map return-route-magic permit 10   match ip address from-one-alias  set ip next-hop 192.168.1.1& route-map return-route-magic permit 20"  match ip address from-other-alias  set ip next-hop 192.168.2.2  + interface fastethernet 0/0		(Toward server)o  ip address 10.9.9.9 255.0.0.0'  ip policy route-map return-route-magicn  - interface fastethernet 0/1		(Toward gateways) #  ip address 192.168.9.9 255.255.0.0u   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 10:49:51 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)9 Subject: So Andrew, when does the slowaris rewrite start?o= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0404160949.605f6690@posting.google.com>h  C Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorizei and separateF Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a minimum.D for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings
 happens toC be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS has  four.eE OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified asT	 requiringa special named privileges.    And, then...  6  - allow access to higher mode services only through a DESCRIPTOR-basedD    calling standard which rules out "by design" the primary cause of securityE    holes - buffer-overflows. The secure Calling Standard is a centraln design    theme in OpenVMS.  F  - rewrite and install your TCP/IP stack so that it doesn't live in orB    directly access kernel mode services except through the calling	 standard.c@    If the previous condition was met, your tcp/ip stack probablyD    won't work in Supervisor mode or User Mode without these changes.B    This is the reason why most security holes for which OpenVMS isA    affected does not in fact lead to a security vulnerability. IncF    this sense I agree with Andrew. Security vulnerability listings are9    innaccurate for OpenVMS. Because they do not correctly>
 differentiategE    whether only a user-mode process can be affected or a higher mode,oD    and whether a higher privilege can be attained. A correct listing>    must rate the severity of the security hole. In OpenVMS the severityE    is usually lower (or meaningless) in comparison to other operating     systems.s  F  - design privilege assignments to be attached to a mode. If a programC    installed in a higher mode breaks out to a user-mode prompt. AllhC    privileges assigned during the program run must be automatically  lost.:C    This prevents program privilege tailgating. OpenVMS Hackers (yess they>    do exist, an admirably persistent if unsuccessful lot) have recently9    discovered this functionality in OpenVMS, inwhich theyb
 intentionally>F    installed an application with privileges and with a buffer overflow leadingdE    to a DCL prompt. Their experiment failed. This OpenVMS "knockdown"eA    functionality can also be extended to disable the privilege ofm?    receiving a DCL Prompt when breaking out of a program or DCLf
 procedure,E    just by assigning the CAPTIVE and RESTRICT flags to user accounts..  @  - design your Unix to provide only strictly separated (and from overflow?    controlled) user and system stacks to prevent stack crashingn leadingt&    to access to higher mode functions.  F  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism to    be carried out by one  @ These are only a few of the unique, patented design decisions in OpenVMSnC resulting in a world-beating matrix of Functionality, Reliability, vD Availability, Security, Stability, and Scalability(RT, APMP, SMP andF Cluster). It's an OS that was "Designed" first by 4 competing teams of experts,E and then the best results of these competing design teams merged intoe ao? final design team. They knew of the older Unix, MVS and Multicst designs, andD naturally they innovated and improved on them for the Enterprise OS  problem space.  A When you are done making these elementary design changes to Unix sA (many of which were intentionally excluded or ignored by the Unixt	 designers,F in 1969 - Multics already had early forms many of them) you will find A most of the commercial products on the Unix Market will no longers functionF correctly on your New-Unix, and will also require a redesign, and then
 a rewrite.  ? But at least you will finally have an OS and TCP/IP stack whiche@ "begins" to technically compare with OpenVMS within the frame of	 security. F And you'll have a product which pays royalties to OpenVMS Engineering.  F Each OS has it's strengths and weaknesses in design and implementationE which will have a different evaluation depending on the problem spacec? it will be applied to, and depending on the design goals of theO
 designers.> For the general Enterprise OS problem space, I believe OpenVMS Engineering>; has most consistently made the best decisions in design and  implementedy? them with an admirably consistent high quality and methodology.   E OpenVMS enthusiasts can righteously bemoan that the Computer Science sA Profession (Informatics) have failed to recognize and teach theirw studentsC the sophisticated mechanisms and high principals found in OpenVMS, eD preferring instead to favoritize the minimalistic asthetics of Unix,E or the marketing level sophistication in OS selection. This is a reale> loss for enterpise efficiency (money), mission-critical system	 stabilitytF (lives), and the computer science profession (maturity as a science). @ A more balanced and impartial framework of scientific thought is needed.oF Computer Science needs some independence from commercial and marketing> interests to even discover the value of many existing designs, technologiesD and ideas. The last major papers over OS design were written over 10/ years ago, but their work is far from complete.h  A Critics of OpenVMS should first study and compare it's internals  E (Professional OS comparisons and choices should not be reduced to an pA application layer beauty contest) with an open mind concering OS /> design paradigms, system operations principals and reliability methodologies.A After recovering from the shock, they will likely no longer be asp	 critical.3  E Excuse me. I just noticed I didn't finish writing the last condition.  It should read...s  F  - lets also not forget a redesign of the internal logon  mechanism toF    be carried out by one program/process first created at user request ande=    has complete responsibility for the entire login sequence.h  @ By the way, that was not by any means a complete list of OpenVMS, design advantages.  It was only a beginning.  E Excuse me one last time, I have checked my sources and find I need tooD change one sentence of my earlier Email. The sentence should read...  =    It's an OS that was "Designed" by experts first producing V>    four design iterations, and then the best results of these ?    designs were carried over into a  final design by "The Blue w    Ribbon Committee".p  C I had thought to have read that the original 4 designs were by fouri@ competing teams, but I can no longer find a source for this. TheE essential message remains unchanged. OpenVMS was carefully "Designed"n( by experienced operating system experts.  E I'm not interested in changing history for any purpose. I do stand byi3 my other statements and opinions made in the email.      Cheers!a   Keith Cayemberg ) IBM Business Services - Hannover, Germanyn   Semi-Nonstandard Disclaimer:3 Any non-official claims concerning my semi-officiala+ opinions are hereby officially disclaimed. .  i.e. I said it, not my employer.0 (and no I didn't steal this one from Yogi Berra)  ? I welcome rebuttal, however a lack of response on my part only l> indicates a lack discretionary time to indulge in discussions ' peripheral to my employment activities.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:00:33 +0400 : From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelecom{dot}RU>( Subject: Re: SSL in AST-driven programm?3 Message-ID: <3D0386470AFD387EFF7A0718FC0C358E@nntp>-  
 Hello , Mark!@     Mark Daniel wrote:  % > Hi Ruslan, good to see your script.m > K > Any interest in IPv6?  WASD's just finished being fitted out with it and u6 > I'll be looking for some ALPHA/BETA testers shortly.7 	Thanks, let me check my environment to ready for IPv6.E     -- PF + WBR, OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .................................+D Delta Telecom Inc., NMT-450i, IMT-MC-450(CDMA2000) cellular operatorE Russia,191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3 Cel: +7 (812) 116-3222 F +http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru ............. Frying on OpenVMS only +   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:44:24 -0400 (EDT) ; From: "Ken Robinson" <kenneth.robinson@verizonwireless.com>42 Subject: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Software2 Message-ID: <04041614442447@spock.odc.vzwcorp.com>   Hi,u  P I'm looking for information and/or experience with hardware and/or software that. can do tape replication for Disaster Recovery.  C If the product is software based it has to run on VMS 7.3-2 onward.   3 Either solution needs to handle DLT and SDLT tapes.    Thanks in advancee   Ken Robinson Senior OpenVMS System Managerr Verizon Wireless Orangeburg, NY5 kenneth (dot) robinson (at) verizonwireless (dot) com  -- V Ken Robinson VerizonWireless.5 kenneth (dot) robinson (at) verizonwireless (dot) como   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:05:13 -0400u> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-ALB)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>6 Subject: RE: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or SoftwareM Message-ID: <64B3B1B5C2C51F49A655F652DE7A7C4FFC609A@LNGALBEXCP006.BENDER.COM>e  B > From: Ken Robinson [mailto:kenneth.robinson@verizonwireless.com]& > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 2:44 PM4 > Subject: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Software >  > Hi,d > > > I'm looking for information and/or experience with hardware  > and/or software that0 > can do tape replication for Disaster Recovery.  K At my site we use HP's SaveSet Manager software with a TL896 automated tapeiI library and TZ877 tape stackers.  We use it with OpenVMS 7.3-1 currently, J but hope to move to OpenVMS 7.3-2.  The product was worked as the softwareL product description indicates, and we have been happy with it.  Your mileage> may vary, but I bet you could get a trial license pak for use.   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadway  Albany, NY  12204  USAm 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.comh  ME > If the product is software based it has to run on VMS 7.3-2 onward.h > 5 > Either solution needs to handle DLT and SDLT tapes.i >  > Thanks in advancee >  > Ken Robinson > Senior OpenVMS System Managerr > Verizon Wireless > Orangeburg, NY7 > kenneth (dot) robinson (at) verizonwireless (dot) com2 > -- 4 > Ken Robinson > VerizonWirelesso7 > kenneth (dot) robinson (at) verizonwireless (dot) comr >    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 14:44:49 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org6 Subject: Re: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Software3 Message-ID: <8RYG3VyT8eHH@eisner.encompasserve.org>:  p In article <04041614442447@spock.odc.vzwcorp.com>, "Ken Robinson" <kenneth.robinson@verizonwireless.com> writes: > Hi,o > R > I'm looking for information and/or experience with hardware and/or software that0 > can do tape replication for Disaster Recovery. > E > If the product is software based it has to run on VMS 7.3-2 onward.  > 5 > Either solution needs to handle DLT and SDLT tapes.   A Check out Tapesys from Software Partners.  In addition to being a C nice package for library management, automated backup and automatedi@ restore, it contains support for parallel tape writing.  Back up1 one disk to two tape drives in duplicate at once.g  B At least I think it does -- we never used that particular feature.  B Tapesys produces vanilla VMS backup save sets on tape and uses VMSH BACKUP to do so.  (I think it's callable BACKUP these days -- originally@ it was a patched copy of BACKUP.EXE).  No compatibility worries.  + No relation except as a satisfied customer.s 	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:40:24 -0600r( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>6 Subject: Re: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Software/ Message-ID: <00A30762.5C79F072.3@tachysoft.com>g   >From: briggs@encompasserve.org  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms7 >Subject: Re: Tape Replicating Hardware and/or Softwaret! >Date: 16 Apr 2004 14:44:49 -0600d    q >In article <04041614442447@spock.odc.vzwcorp.com>, "Ken Robinson" <kenneth.robinson@verizonwireless.com> writes:l >> Hi, >> rS >> I'm looking for information and/or experience with hardware and/or software thatp1 >> can do tape replication for Disaster Recovery.  >> lF >> If the product is software based it has to run on VMS 7.3-2 onward. >> c6 >> Either solution needs to handle DLT and SDLT tapes. >sB >Check out Tapesys from Software Partners.  In addition to being aD >nice package for library management, automated backup and automatedA >restore, it contains support for parallel tape writing.  Back upo2 >one disk to two tape drives in duplicate at once. >-C >At least I think it does -- we never used that particular feature.a >r  N Yes, this is an embedded product called CMP (though also referred to as TSHAD,N for tape shadowing) that is included with tapesys.  It is a virtual tape driveM that fans out i/o operations to 2 or more real tape drives at the QIO level. iM It is automatically activated by using "copies == <number of copies to make>"17 in the .sbk file, where the number is greater than 1.  r    N sysbak creates the virtual tape drive and uses it as the target of the backup.H The virtual tape drive is bound to the specified number of physical tapeM drives, which all must be of the same type (since sensemode/setmode must haveoH the same results for all drives in the set). Every i/o operation that isN performed on the virtual drive, such as writelblk, is performed on each of theJ physical drives in the shadow set in parallel.  The original qio is postedM complete only when completed on all of the drives.  So the result is multiplef- tapes with identical backup savesets on them.t  L Tapesys is mostly unaware of tshad running underneath, in most ways treatingH the virtual drive  like a normal tape drive.  The main exception is tapeL labels, since the reel on each tape drive has a different label.  So tapesysI allocates the reels for each drive and tells tshad that drive 1 has labelkK xxxxxx, drive 2 has label yyyyyyy, etc.  TSHAD intercepts the label writingdI operations and substitutes the correct label for each drive on the fly.     O Once the reels are allocated and the parallel savesets are created, they can beeN manipulated independently in the tapesys database.  For instace, reel 2 can beG moved offsite, while reel 1 remains onsite.  Also, reel two can go to a.L different history set if desired, so that the history is replicated as well.    C >Tapesys produces vanilla VMS backup save sets on tape and uses VMS  >BACKUP to do so.  t  O Yes.  This is one of the most important features.  In a catastrophe, you do noteI have to restore tapesys first and then your system as with foreign backupiK solutions.  tapesys savesets can be restored perfectly well from standalonet- backup on vax or the alpha cdrom system disk.I  7 >(I think it's callable BACKUP these days -- originallyrA >it was a patched copy of BACKUP.EXE).  No compatibility worries.E  L Actually, the patching was *way* back.  Since the mid-nineties at least, theN tapesys backup module (vmsbu) has actually run an *unmodified* backup.exe as aL subroutine after setting up an environment to intercept various things.  (IfJ you think it's easy having two main images in the same process at the sameN time, try it some day. :-)   Takes some special code, but it's better than theA patching in that the same code works with multiple vms versions.)e    O And yes, we do use callable backup in 7.1 and beyond.  But since many customerstL won't/can't upgrade vms, the backup.exe subroutine gag is still supported as well.        WayneLO ===============================================================================-N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O ===============================================================================0P Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:18:02 +0100n> From: Andrew Harrison <andrew.d.harrison_remove_the_d@sun.com>? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable60 Message-ID: <c5p230$f6c$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   GreyCloud wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>C >>>In article <c4hdit$l11$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew HarrisonoD >>>SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >>>  >>>lB >>>>Whatever argument SCO and Novell have over who owns the rightsB >>>>to the UNIX IP don't apply to Sun nor would it be possible forB >>>>example for SCO to revoke Sun's right to ship UNIX licenses asC >>>>it has with IBM and then threaten their customers because there & >>>>is no license between SCO and Sun. >>>- >>>-H >>>   Hasn't stopped SCO from suing other customers over it, even though@ >>>   earlier UNIX ownership contracts specifically prohibit it. >>>i >>< >>I think SCO's argument is that the earlier contracts don't8 >>specifically prohibit them from suing their customers. >>C >>But again none of this applies to Sun because there is no licensen >>deal between Sun and SCO.e >  > M > Then what did Sun buy from SCO then?  From the accounts I've heard, Sun wasiI > acting like they too wanted Linux dead.  But it won't happen of course.l >  > A Well how about some facts to balance the accounts you have heard.e  A Sun is by far in away the largest donator of IP to the OpenSource 
 community.  E Donations range from whole office suites OpenOffice, calendaring, web E browser components, bits of Apache, NFS, parts of Gnome and EvolutionnF Cryptography, libraries, API's NetBeans etc etc. Plus the availabilityG of Java through Sun's Community Source License which OpenSource puristss@ may not like but sure has resulted in a lot of Linux boxes beingF able to run apps that they would have no chance of doing so otherwise.  H The combined donations of HP and IBM don't even get close and given thatB much of what they have donated is eminently replacable for exampleC IBM JFS for which there are numerous alternatives the value of some1G of the donations is dubious particularly if you have just had a missivei" from SCO arive on your CEO's desk.  8 And Java is a great example of vendors double standards,A people like IBM call for Sun turn Java into an OpenSource programt? but show no inclination to allow their own IP out into the wildO> in the same way nor to allow free access to that IP, where are@ the free DB2 downloads for Linux etc etc or Lotus Notes for that matter.t    ? Sun also has one of the highest volume OpenSource systems basedm' shock horror probe on SuSE Linux (JDS).   < Its hardly suprising that Sun sometimes gets tetchy with the9 OpenSource community when some elements of the OpenSourcec> community ignore what Sun has done for them and start accusing= Sun of conspiring with any one of a number of foes to destroy  them.-  < What would you prefer, a vendor who donates usefull IP which8 enables OpenSource platforms to compete with Windows etc8 or a Vendor who one of many vendors providing a platform5 on which that OpenSource platform can run. Sun is them2 former HP is the latter IBM thinks that Linux is a great opportunity for GS.0  7 There are lots of x86 vendors but rather fewer completer office suppliers for example.p   Regardse Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:40:16 -0500p@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>" Subject: Re: VMS/modem setup help?6 Message-ID: <407F3980.7E97A6B9@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   John wrote:- > H > nobody <nobody@nobody.org> wrote in news:407DCC2A.94234BA8@nobody.org: > F > > VMS comes with proper serial port support for login. What the portF > > expects is that the user will press <return> to activate the login > > process. > > F > > For inbound calls, you want to make sure that the modem has statusE > > reports for inbound calls DISABLED. Also depending on the type ofiJ > > serial port/alpha machine you have, you will also probably want to getD > > all the proper modem control  signals on both the modem and VMS. > >s* > > on VMS, you would want something like: > >c? > > $SET TERM TTAx: /PERM/MODEM/DIALUP/HANGUP/ALTYPAHD/AUTOBAUDs > >gI > > However, if your cellular modem provides a fixed speed interface, yous; > > can replace the /AUTOBAUD with /NOAUTOBAUD/SPEED=xxxxxxo > >  > >nA > > You'll need full documentation on your modem to set the rights
 > > switches.t > > - > > From VMS, you can talk to the modem with:o > >  > > $SET HOST/DTE TTAx:  > >g > >u > M > I got it working thanks to you. If I want to retrieve files from our Alpha, L > do I need to install a Kermit-type program on the Alpha? I have one on theG > PC, but I can't retrieve any files from the Alpha when I call it. I'm@L > guessing the Alpha does not come with any file transfer protocol programs.   Good guess.b  / Links to Kermit have been posted here recently.n  @ WRQ's Reflection terminal programs are costly, but provide theirG proprietary file transfer protocol for VAX and Alpha, as well as havingi3 Kermit and X/Y/ZMODEM built into Reflection itself.l  D Other terminal programs have been discussed here as well (Google for it).   -- o David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 12:44:28 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)( Subject: Re: We still SELL Alpha Systems= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0404161144.493021fb@posting.google.com>   s "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> wrote in message news:<107vi9mfijncvd7@news.supernews.com>... 2 > Just in case some of you didn't realise/realize. > 8 > We have special offers that are not beatable anywhere.M > If you are interested, go to www.islandco.com and put your email address in  > the pop-up windoweL > We will send you monthly updates on SPECIAL pricing not available ANYWHERE > on the web >     G Ive heard from a guy at HP that the Company is thinking about selling  - the Alphaservers beyond 2006. Is that true ? u   Regard   FC .   >  > -- - > David B Turner! > Island Computers US Corporation1 > 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180K > Savannah GA 31404  > Tel: 912 447 6622X > Fax: 912 201 0402g > Email: dbturner@hpaq.net > http://www.hpaq.netl   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Apr 2004 16:00:00 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c( Subject: Re: We still SELL Alpha Systems3 Message-ID: <UTHBY8keF0FJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  n In article <f30679fb.0404161144.493021fb@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes: >  > I > Ive heard from a guy at HP that the Company is thinking about selling e/ > the Alphaservers beyond 2006. Is that true ? "  L    IIRC there is a commitment to keep selling Alphas through at least 2006, 1    with hardware support at least through 2011.  $  H    I would not be at all suprized if there is enough customer demand to C    keep going beyond that.  After all, it's still the hottest thingy    running VMS.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:32:38 -0500w@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>( Subject: Re: We still SELL Alpha Systems6 Message-ID: <4080A556.F3BE1862@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Bob Koehler wrote: > p > In article <f30679fb.0404161144.493021fb@posting.google.com>, fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) writes: > >l > >rJ > > Ive heard from a guy at HP that the Company is thinking about selling0 > > the Alphaservers beyond 2006. Is that true ? > M >    IIRC there is a commitment to keep selling Alphas through at least 2006,u1 >    with hardware support at least through 2011.e  F IIRC, there was a commitment to continue developing Alpha through 20103 or so. Commitment means jack-spit in some places...   I >    I would not be at all suprized if there is enough customer demand to E >    keep going beyond that.  After all, it's still the hottest thing  >    running VMS.3  A Well, technically Itanic is the "hottest" thing run VMS, based onI/ reports from the field re: cooling the chips...    --   David J. DachteraP dba DJE Systems; http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:30:06 -0500a@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>- Subject: Re: Why VMS advertising is importante6 Message-ID: <407F371E.8877DC77@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > John Smith wrote:p
 > >>[snip]D > >> No, HP has to advertise where the demand will be created...sameC > >> place the CEO reads his news and entertainment...WSJ, Fortune,eC > >> Business Week, Aviation Week, Economist, Robb Report, The Wine-> > >> Spectator, ....even in a Sotheby's catalogue if permitted > >eJ > > Agreed - because then they will ask the the trainers, "So, what's thisB > > 'VMS' I hear about from time to time?", to which the under- orH > > mis-informed trainer will respond, "Dead legacy garbage - they don'tE > > even advertise it anymore, the ISVs have all bailed, and even the)I > > hardware it runs on was killed off three years ago - don't waste your . > > mental effort on it, Microsoft *IS* I.T.!" > , > Aside from the "Dead" (which is debatable)  H ...to which I'll offer no more than my usual response: "Prove me wrong".  # > it is hard to argue with the restm$ > of the theoretical response.  Sad.  	 Indeed...h  D The above said, I truly, heartily wish hp *WOULD* prove me wrong !!!   ...if only they could.   If only....p   -- b David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:36:30 -0500c@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>- Subject: Re: Why VMS advertising is important 5 Message-ID: <407F389E.BC5B2BC@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>-   John Smith wrote:1 > [snip]B > All the 'so-called' experts these days seem to know about (as inM > "mindshare") is Windows and Linux, so that's all they will recommend to the H > CEO. Isn't it better that the CEO KNOWS that there is something better > available to the company?   $ BUT - will those CEOs "go it alone"?  G Will they ferret out the hold-outs like VAXman, TecSys, StanQ and so on F who can help them bring that "something better" before board so he can4 get funding? ...backing? ...support? ...recognition?  C Regardless of what a CxO knows, what's the motivation to pursue any G given solution (VMS-based, etc.)? ...and how does VMS figure into that?.A Where does the CxO get the info for his/her presentation? (Hello,  marketing?)    -- a David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:06:38 +0200e  From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>- Subject: Re: Why VMS advertising is important , Message-ID: <c5nt5e$m0f$1@news.cybercity.dk>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: >> >> David J. Dachtera wrote:V >>> John Smith wrote:h >>>> [snip]tD >>>> No, HP has to advertise where the demand will be created...sameC >>>> place the CEO reads his news and entertainment...WSJ, Fortune,0C >>>> Business Week, Aviation Week, Economist, Robb Report, The Winel> >>>> Spectator, ....even in a Sotheby's catalogue if permitted >>> E >>> Agreed - because then they will ask the the trainers, "So, what's6G >>> this 'VMS' I hear about from time to time?", to which the under- ornH >>> mis-informed trainer will respond, "Dead legacy garbage - they don'tE >>> even advertise it anymore, the ISVs have all bailed, and even theeD >>> hardware it runs on was killed off three years ago - don't waste3 >>> your mental effort on it, Microsoft *IS* I.T.!"  >>- >> Aside from the "Dead" (which is debatable)  > B > ...to which I'll offer no more than my usual response: "Prove me	 > wrong".  >    Proof by existence.sG I think "on life support, terminal" is a more accurate description.  Myn< criteria for "death" are maybe a bit stricter than yours :-)  
 Dr. Dweeb.  $ >> it is hard to argue with the rest% >> of the theoretical response.  Sad.p >t > Indeed...o > F > The above said, I truly, heartily wish hp *WOULD* prove me wrong !!! >r > ...if only they could. > 
 > If only....e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:19:47 -0400d# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e- Subject: Re: Why VMS advertising is important , Message-ID: <FdGdnWDmfKjoQOLdRVn_iw@igs.net>  ? "William Webb" <williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com> wrote in messageD7 news:bf98c417.0404150641.2b50fe73@posting.google.com...t0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( news:<N_qdnXoXAdNR5-DdRVn-gw@igs.net>...H > > Yet another example of why raising the profile of VMS is critical -- whenB > > all executives hear about is Windows, Linux, and Solaris...... > >uE > > If they don't know about it, ask about it, and they won't buy it.: > >r > >SL http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=66&ncid=1208&e=10&u=/bw/2004" > > 0413/bs_bw/tc200404139334tc146 > >4 > >sJ > > "....So now, CEOs have "woken up to the fact that they have to be moreI > > involved and more comfortable asking the hard questions," says DermotoL > > Shorten, a vice-president at Booz Allen. Consequently, computer trainers for L > > CEOs have become hot commodities. Technology-related executive-educationI > > courses have thrived. And today, CEOs are more tech-savvy -- and more  > > careful about IT spending. > >eG > > Allen Salikof, CEO of Management Recruiters International Worldwides (MRI),J > > says in the mid-1990s, chief execs -- himself included -- made few keyJ > > technology decisions. Today, many approve nearly all of them. "They'veL > > become less likely to give chief information officers a free hand," says the.D > > head of the world's largest managerial, technical, and executive recruitmentM	 > > firm.e > > 
 > > ....." >eD > The idea of offering a $1 million (USD) prize for anyone who couldH > successfully penetrate an OpenVMS system connected to the Internet hasD > been mentioned in this newsgroup previously as a way that HP couldA > generate huge amounts of free publicity in venues that would be  > visible to the nontechnical.  I Actually that's a pretty good idea. It would probably be picked up by CNNlK Headline news and repeated about 48 times the first day (once each 1/2 hour I 'news' cycle), and by other 'mainstream' news media (tv, radio, & print).o  D As long as HP had a link on the www.hp.com home page to the contest,I everyone who heard about it on CNN et. al. could find out the details. ItyI would behoove HP to have as many 'contestants' as possible hacking at they system.      >>C > If they're not willing to put that much at risk, offering an iPodiB > (with the matching Volkswagen accessory) to the first successfulE > intruder would gather just as much publicity and display a sense ofu > humor at the same time.  >aG > It would also greatly enhance HP's "coolness quotient" which seems to,5 > have become a matter of extreme importance of late.n    I Perhaps even throw in a carly(tm) matching hairstyle and manicure for the , winner's (if any) publicity photo in the VW.  K Of course if nobody wins, then HP would have to follow up with a picture oftF an Alphaserver holding the iPod while resting jauntily against the VW," proclaiming OpenVMS as the winner.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:23:02 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>- Subject: Re: Why VMS advertising is important 6 Message-ID: <4080A316.A8851E8A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: > >> > >> David J. Dachtera wrote:p > >>> John Smith wrote:s
 > >>>> [snip]sF > >>>> No, HP has to advertise where the demand will be created...sameE > >>>> place the CEO reads his news and entertainment...WSJ, Fortune,eE > >>>> Business Week, Aviation Week, Economist, Robb Report, The Wine0@ > >>>> Spectator, ....even in a Sotheby's catalogue if permitted > >>>	G > >>> Agreed - because then they will ask the the trainers, "So, what's I > >>> this 'VMS' I hear about from time to time?", to which the under- or J > >>> mis-informed trainer will respond, "Dead legacy garbage - they don'tG > >>> even advertise it anymore, the ISVs have all bailed, and even thegF > >>> hardware it runs on was killed off three years ago - don't waste5 > >>> your mental effort on it, Microsoft *IS* I.T.!"e > >>/ > >> Aside from the "Dead" (which is debatable)  > >cD > > ...to which I'll offer no more than my usual response: "Prove me > > wrong".t > >  >  > Proof by existence.nI > I think "on life support, terminal" is a more accurate description.  Myc> > criteria for "death" are maybe a bit stricter than yours :-)  1 Some other examples that I would consider "dead":r  < A person plummeting from great height toward a hard surface.  H A person lying in a hospital, apparently brain-dead (the body lives, but the person is gone).   -- t David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:49:56 -0400 2 From: "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb.NOSP@M.cdrh.fda.gov>- Subject: Re: Xwindows TCPIP/DECnet forwardingd3 Message-ID: <uVVfc.153$Ny6.603@mencken.net.nih.gov>o  ; "Martin Kirby" <martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 5 news:224291b.0404160443.e6e47f4@posting.google.com...sF > Except, it only provides DECNET for the transport from the client to+ > the relay, and you seem to require TCPIP.>  J Perhaps my memory is faulty, but I remember this utility working the otherL way around, written for the express purpose of allowing X11 from remote UnixJ clients to display on DECnet-only VAXstations.  Thanks for poring over the= source listings!  That was way above/beyond the call of duty.p  - > DECwindows manuals are available online at:i >e. > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/decwin131.html  D I can't find anything thereon earlier than DECwindows 1.2-6 or TCPIPL Services for OpenVMS V5.1. I'm remembering back to the UCX days when we wereI applying the MAILSHR patch to allow users to address SMTP email normally, ? without the lame SMTP% construction.  But that's another story.y  D > However, I think you are more likely to have seen documentation onC > this in the VXT 2000 manuals which are available on the freeware.v  K I have never seen a VXT 2000 terminal, much less the manuals for it!  I didoK have some NCD Xwindows terminals that spoke DECnet, but I'm pretty sure the H X11 forwarding utility I read about was in DEC manuals, not NCD manuals.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.212 ************************