1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 18 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 214       Contents:& Re: archiving save sets on a linux box& Re: archiving save sets on a linux box Re: Back in the saddle Re: Delta Time> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... Re: Need VAXVMS055 ISO# Re: OpenVMS I64 workstation timing? # Re: OpenVMS I64 workstation timing? # Re: OpenVMS I64 workstation timing?  Re: Question on processors6 Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:40:26 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>/ Subject: Re: archiving save sets on a linux box , Message-ID: <40814FEA.4000403@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Elson wrote:  D > I am running VMS 6.2 on an alpha 2100. I am trying to archive vms 9 > save sets on a linux box running suse 9.0 (2.4 kernel).  > J > I ftp'ed (binary) a save set to the linux box and then brought it back.  > M > I have been unable to read the save sets after bringing them back from the   > linux box. > 6 > Before I ftp the save set to linux dir/full reports:M >         File attributes: Allocation: 156, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 & >                     No version limit= >         Record format:      Fixed length 32256 byte records " >         Record attributes:  None >  > After I bring the file back:M >         File attributes: Allocation: 136, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 & >                     No version limitN >         Record format: Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32256 bytes> >         Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > - > Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.  > 
 > Larry Elson  >   O Note the record format in the before and after files.  Don't know whether it's   supported in V6.2, but try   SET FILE /ATT=(RFM:FIX)   Q Using HELP SET FILE /ATTRIBUTE will show whether V6.2 has the capability.  Later  % versions (V7.2) allow this operation.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:58:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: archiving save sets on a linux box , Message-ID: <4081A86A.92A03D39@teksavvy.com>  8 > > Before I ftp the save set to linux dir/full reports:O > >         File attributes: Allocation: 156, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 ( > >                     No version limit? > >         Record format:      Fixed length 32256 byte records $ > >         Record attributes:  None > >   > > After I bring the file back:O > >         File attributes: Allocation: 136, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 ( > >                     No version limitP > >         Record format: Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32256 bytes@ > >         Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control  J The suggested SET FILE/ATTR command won't work. It appears that you used aM text file transfer to bring the saveset back to VMS (might have been that too ? for outbound). Make sure you do a binary (TYPE IMAGE) transfer.   K With a TYPE IMAGE FTP transfer, the received file would have a fixed record ` format with 512 record size. At that point, you can use the SET FILE/ATTRIB(LRL:32256,MRS:32256)  H If the file was created variable length, it means that the receiving FTPG program added two extra bytes in the raw contents of the file for every D "record". Using SET FILE/ATTRIB will not remove those extra 2 bytes.  L If the saveset was sent as text to the linux system, it is possible that theL data is already corrupt since VMS specific "line end" character string wouldL be replaced with the FTP standard string and then at the linux end, replaced, with the unix specific string for line ends.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:41:07 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Back in the saddle 8 Message-ID: <o7j1809s22j5l3htsuee9p67mm9k1jm543@4ax.com>  K On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:45:48 -0400, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote:   O >On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:49:48 +0100, Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:  > 5 >>I watched an DEC AXP 2000 boot OpenVMS back in June 6 >>of 1993 or thereabouts, in DEC, in the UK (REO). I'd: >>be amazed if VMS Eng hadn't had a few kicking around :-); >>The UK ones were mostly in cages at this stage. Honestly!  >>5 >>The comment from the guy who dragged me up to watch 8 >>was "Look how fast this is" ... the funny part is that, >>I agreed with him ... how times change :-) >>	 >>Antonio  > P >I still remember thinking how much faster a VAX 11/785 was than the 11/780's we- >were running -- does that date me, or what?!   O The amazing thing to recall is that you had to wait five whole years before the O 785 shipped after the 780 & offered an amazing 50% increase in performance. Now I that faster CPUs are shipped every couple of months it seems like a whole  different world:-)   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:53:30 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Delta Time 6 Message-ID: <4081FBBA.D2050073@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   William Hymen wrote: >  > All, > * > How would I convert this into delta time. > instead of absolute. I could use an example. > D > $ resub= """"+f$cvtime("TOMORROW","ABSOLUTE","DATE")+" 02:02:00"""  > If I understand the question correctly, my favorite is either:  0 $ resub = f$cvtime( "02:02:00+1-", "ABSOLUTE", )   ...or...  ( $ SUBMIT.../AFTER="02:02:00+1-" filespec    @ ...or some variant thereof (perhaps inserting the time by symbolH substitution having received the string from a logical name, F$GETQUI(), etc.).   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:36:44 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 6 Message-ID: <4080A64C.9AB80A30@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > [snip]  ; ...or did he? Looks like a cut-and-paste from someone else.   = If it's directed at me, I take extreme umbrage and exception.   B I am *NOT* a VMS newbie, damnit, and I don't need the likes of you preaching it to me!   G If it's NOT directed at me, then take your blinders off anyway. This is 4 a multi-platform, multi-vendor world we work in now.   Get over it...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:14:21 +0200 * From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... , Message-ID: <c5qav1$c7d$1@news.cybercity.dk>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0404161429.4e9d5d17@posting.google.com... 7 > "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message ) news:<c5p1rs$1tbl$1@news.cybercity.dk>... 9 > > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message ; > > news:d7791aa1.0404160520.13ddd8f7@posting.google.com... I > > > Yes, but first redesign and rewrite your unix to cleanly catagorize  > > > and separateL > > > Kernel Mode from Supervisor Mode and from User Mode. Three modes are a
 > > > minimum J > > > for a correct ring protection system. The use of three or more rings > > > happens toI > > > be a fully patented methodology by OpenVMS Engineering. OpenVMS has  > > > four. K > > > OpenVMS also has 40 groups of higher mode functionality classified as  > > > requiring  > > > special named privileges.  > > G > > There is an important difference between Unix and VMS.  In Unix the  command C > > language interpreter is executed in a process separate from the 	 processes K > > executing user programs.  In VMS DCL is executed in the same process as  userK > > programs.  VMS needs supervisor mode to separate DCL and DCLs data from  userH > > programs.  Unix does not have that need because the command languageK > > interpreter's code and data a protected by being in a separate process. I > > Please tell me why the VMS is way of doing things is more secure than  the 
 > > Unix way.  > > > I think a quick review of the cert web site will answer that > question for you ...  ? I am sorry, but I did not have any success finding any reported K vulnerabilities in Unix and/or Linux that was caused by Unix executing user J programs in processes separate from the command language interpreter.  Can you please point me to them?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:38:03 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: Need VAXVMS055 ISO 6 Message-ID: <4080A69B.D2C6D485@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Romax MANIAX wrote:  >  > Hi,  > 1 > can someone provide me a vax vms 5.5 iso image?   F Well, technically, you need an ODS-2 image - VAXes won't boot from ISO CDs.  A Google for recent posts on the topic. I believe someone has those 
 on-line...   > I have my hobyist licences!   	 Congrats!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:13:49 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) , Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 workstation timing?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1704040716110001@user-uinj4al.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <ScN8SsaS7BO0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, , koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org wrote:  F >   A couple months back I heard from various sources about a possible5 >   low cost developer's workstation for OpenVMS I64.  > G >   What is available now according to HP's web pages are preconfigured D >   HP-UX or Linux systems and the OpenVMS 8.1 evaluation kit on CD. > > >   I'd like to get some idea of when part numbers and pricingE >   information would be available for a developer's workstation for  6 >   OpenVMS I64.  Are we looking at the 8.2 timeframe? > D >   I'm trying to replace a 12 year old DEC 3000 M600S and a couple I >   VXT 2000+.  A couple developer's workstations sound just about right, I >   if I can get them before October.  If that's not likely, then I'll go F >   ahead and price out what's on the web page now (IRRC it was about & >   $8K US when 8.1 started shipping).  * V8.2 won't hit the streets before October.  N You probably won't see VMS on price lists and ordering menus until V8.2 ships.  E For low-cost systems, look at the rx1600 or rx2600 servers with 1 GHz I CPU(s).  Both include built-in Gigabit LAN and U320 SCSI.  The management A card (standard on rx2600, optional on rx1600) includes a graphics G controller.  This graphics isn't meant for high-powered 3D work, but it J should outperform most of the graphics options available for the DEC 3000.  J I don't think anyone knows the price of VMS on Itanium yet.  But there areJ supposed to be very good discounts for customers migrating from Alpha.  IfG you qualify for any of the Alpha Retain Trust programs, you'll probably H end up with VMS prices somewhere between Linux and HP-UX software prices on the systems.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:47:05 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 workstation timing?6 Message-ID: <4081FA39.8D8B8B9D@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   John Smith wrote:  > D > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote in messageH > news:rdeininger-1704040716110001@user-uinj4al.dialup.mindspring.com...7 > > In article <ScN8SsaS7BO0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 > > koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org wrote: > > J > > >   A couple months back I heard from various sources about a possible9 > > >   low cost developer's workstation for OpenVMS I64.  > > > K > > >   What is available now according to HP's web pages are preconfigured H > > >   HP-UX or Linux systems and the OpenVMS 8.1 evaluation kit on CD. > > > B > > >   I'd like to get some idea of when part numbers and pricingH > > >   information would be available for a developer's workstation for: > > >   OpenVMS I64.  Are we looking at the 8.2 timeframe? > > > G > > >   I'm trying to replace a 12 year old DEC 3000 M600S and a couple M > > >   VXT 2000+.  A couple developer's workstations sound just about right, M > > >   if I can get them before October.  If that's not likely, then I'll go I > > >   ahead and price out what's on the web page now (IRRC it was about * > > >   $8K US when 8.1 started shipping). > > . > > V8.2 won't hit the streets before October. > > K > > You probably won't see VMS on price lists and ordering menus until V8.2  > ships. > > I > > For low-cost systems, look at the rx1600 or rx2600 servers with 1 GHz M > > CPU(s).  Both include built-in Gigabit LAN and U320 SCSI.  The management E > > card (standard on rx2600, optional on rx1600) includes a graphics K > > controller.  This graphics isn't meant for high-powered 3D work, but it N > > should outperform most of the graphics options available for the DEC 3000. > > N > > I don't think anyone knows the price of VMS on Itanium yet.  But there areN > > supposed to be very good discounts for customers migrating from Alpha.  IfK > > you qualify for any of the Alpha Retain Trust programs, you'll probably L > > end up with VMS prices somewhere between Linux and HP-UX software prices > > on the systems.  > N > That's where VMS ought to be priced in any event for average customers 'justL > off the street'. It used to be that Tru64 and VMS were priced 'at partity'K > because Digital, and even Compaq (at least in the early days) were saying F > that it shouldn't be list or purchase price that determined which ofB > Digital's operating systems a customer chose to run on an Alpha.  F Of course, that's the computer geek in them talking, not the marketing genius.   D Then again, when has VMS *EVER* had a "marketing genius", outside of those who populate this group?  E Apologies to the group, by way. I'm really on the rag these days. Not  sure why...   A Maybe hp's apathy toward VMS is finally getting the better of me.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:26:05 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 workstation timing?6 Message-ID: <4082035D.CDE070D4@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Rob Brooks wrote:  > D > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: > E > > Maybe hp's apathy toward VMS is finally getting the better of me.  > F > If you come to the technical boot camp, I suspect your opinion about. > our commitment toward VMS might change . . .  B There's never been any question of the OpenVMS Engineering group's) commitment, just that of your management.   H Unfortunately, the technical boot camp is still cost-prohibitive (almostG a full month's take-home pay) when you add in travel, accomodations and  such to the registration fee.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 00:44:50 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com># Subject: Re: Question on processors - Message-ID: <874qrjhny5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   . "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl> writes:  B > Pricing. Second hand 5 year old VAXen and Alpha's are nearly the > same price as a new PC.   E Where? Around here, if it is not a PC that can windbloze, it is worth  nothing.  C eg, SGI Octane, ESI, EMXI video, 300MHz R12000, 2GB, no disks, $60.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 06:36:00 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> ? Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Itanium is highly profitable 8 Message-ID: <9oi180l5ije1cifbh9iinfod75njng18d9@4ax.com>  3 On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:18:02 +0100, Andrew Harrison / <andrew.d.harrison_remove_the_d@sun.com> wrote:     F >Donations range from whole office suites OpenOffice, calendaring, webF >browser components, bits of Apache, NFS, parts of Gnome and EvolutionG >Cryptography, libraries, API's NetBeans etc etc. Plus the availability H >of Java through Sun's Community Source License which OpenSource puristsA >may not like but sure has resulted in a lot of Linux boxes being G >able to run apps that they would have no chance of doing so otherwise.   M Andrew how could you forget to mention OpenVMS? Virtually everything that you O mention above is available on OpenVMS & has been for some years. Not to mention O all the other completely unencumbered Open Source software that originates form  non-corporate sources.   Thank you Sun.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.214 ************************