1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 24 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 227       Contents:? Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way ..... , Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit, RE: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit, Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit, Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit  Re: Connecting Ethernet Printers  Re: Connecting Ethernet Printers  Re: Connecting Ethernet Printers# Re: Cut'n'paste and SSH2/TCPIP V5.4 # Re: Cut'n'paste and SSH2/TCPIP V5.4 # Re: Cut'n'paste and SSH2/TCPIP V5.4  Re: DECW DECTerm startup errors ( Re: Disk De-Frag utilities, suggestions?( Re: Disk De-Frag utilities, suggestions?4 Re: Error making ImageMagicK, where is missing file?4 Re: Error making ImageMagicK, where is missing file?E Games from ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (was re: Tetris assembleur VAX + SMG) > Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ..." OpenVMS newbie  - AlphaStation 233% Re: OpenVMS newbie - AlphaStation 233 % Re: OpenVMS newbie - AlphaStation 233 % Re: OpenVMS newbie - AlphaStation 233  Re: OT: HP and Desktop Blades  Re: shadowing questions 6 TCPIP 5.3, VAX VMS 7.3: how did this mail get through?: Re: TCPIP 5.3, VAX VMS 7.3: how did this mail get through?: Re: TCPIP 5.3, VAX VMS 7.3: how did this mail get through?* what do the letters after the numbers mean. Re: what do the letters after the numbers mean. Re: what do the letters after the numbers mean. Re: what do the letters after the numbers mean< Xmcd 3.3.0 CD player/ripper VMS pre-compiled binaries now up, Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's cost, Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's cost, Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's cost  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:04:20 +0200 * From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>H Subject: Re: Alpha is phased out .... UltraSPARC V in the same way .....- Message-ID: <c6csgq$1bmh$1@news.cybercity.dk>   > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0404231416.1d9b958e@posting.google.com... > > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message9 news:<cf15391e.0404120835.6d928973@posting.google.com>... & > > Sun has cancelled the UltraSparc V > A > Gartner Group has issued a cautionary analysis on Sun after the ' > cancellation of the UltraSPARC V. See 7 > http://www3.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=120610  >   L Have you noticed the reports on The Inquirer http://www.theinquirer.net/ andJ AMDZone that Sun and ServerWorks are collaborating on chipsets for serversD with up to 32 opterons (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8832 andN http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=381)?G Is Sun making it self ready for a Sparcide?  When Sun does not have the I resources to complete the UltraSparc V project why don't they collaborate K with Fujitsu on big servers?  Fujitsu has some very interesting projects on  SPARC64.   Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:19:57 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit 9 Message-ID: <c6dm1e$asglg$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>    Jack Peacock wrote: = > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 9 > news:f30679fb.0404231046.182fffe6@posting.google.com...  > H >>Lack of professionalism and the right skills among the UK's IT workersH >>means that billions of pounds are wasted every year on new IT systems,C >>according to a report by the Royal Academy of Engineering and the  >>British Computer Society.  >>E >>OpenVMS systems are money-savers ... Who will tell it to the CEOs ? + >>PS: Dont trust in the CIOs to tell this !  >> > J > How does changing an OS fix a lack of professionalism and skills?  GivenJ > that new workers have no exposure to VMS concepts or operations it wouldI > only make matters worse.  Course it would be a boon to oldtimers, but I M > think companies would consider that to be a negative.  One does not replace M > cheap workers with more expensive ones without good reason, and IT, being a J > commodity marketplace now, isn't a place where the quality over quantityL > argument carries much weight.  Now if Indian universities made a wholesale > shift to VMS...   E Why do I have the feeling that the real purpose of this report is to  < persuade the UK Govt. to grant more work permits to Indians?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:08:43 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 5 Subject: RE: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB313BF4@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20  > Sent: April 23, 2004 9:34 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 > Subject: Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit  >=20 > Jack Peacock wrote: @ > > How does changing an OS fix a lack of professionalism and=20 > skills?  Given; > > that new workers have no exposure to VMS concepts or=20  > operations it would  > > only make matters worse.=20  >=20 >=20A > I was once replaced by a windows weenie who was fresh out of=20  > school and sweetA > talked the boss into think he could do everything on a PC at=20  > much lower cost. >=20? > The problem is that the "point and click" crowd along with=20  > gate,s marketing= > machine and shrink wrapped software has made "anyone" an=20  > expert, and the B > problem is that the bosses don't have the skills to judge the=20 > REAL IT skills? > of an applicant and they hire all sorts of windows weenies=20  > instead of older > experienced people.  >=20B > When boss asks "how long will X take and how much will it cost ? >=20> > Windows Weenie:s answer: 	Oh ! that si simple, I can just=20 > install SQL ServerB > from microsoft and in a few hours, all will be setup. It will=20 > cost you just a  > few hundfred bucks.  >=20? > Experienced IT guy: You'll need a serious database such as=20  > Oracle. You,kll @ > need to spend time designing tye database and software, and=20 > this will take a= > few months and cost you at least $100,000.00. He'll also=20  > saythat Windows isB > not the right platfor for such a project. (going against some=20 > corporate edict  > to go windows only). >=20 >=20) > So, guess which of the two gets hired ?  >=20@ > The experienced IT guys' project would have costed less and=20 > taken less time > > that the MS project, but the sales pitch from the windows=20 > weenie was too good ? > to pass up, and the hiring person had no way to judge that=20  > the windows weenie5 > was not experiencec enough to drive such a project.  >=20  ( Yep, been there, saw that first hand.=20  A However, in this case - after two year $45M very mission critical G project to convert business logic on OpenVMS to Windows (DB was to stay F on VMS) went south big time, we are now being called back in to figureG out how the powers that be can save their careers for making such a bad  mistake.  F Sometimes, I use the analogy that it is like talking to teenagers i.e.G no matter how hard you try to give them the benefit of your experience, E there are some times where they refuse to listen and you just have to  let them try it for themselves.    Interesting times ..   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:10:05 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 5 Subject: Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit , Message-ID: <VuGdnZfiBaOh6BfdRVn-hg@igs.net>  7 "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message 3 news:c6dm1e$asglg$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de...  > Jack Peacock wrote: ? > > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message ; > > news:f30679fb.0404231046.182fffe6@posting.google.com...  > > J > >>Lack of professionalism and the right skills among the UK's IT workersJ > >>means that billions of pounds are wasted every year on new IT systems,E > >>according to a report by the Royal Academy of Engineering and the  > >>British Computer Society.  > >>G > >>OpenVMS systems are money-savers ... Who will tell it to the CEOs ? - > >>PS: Dont trust in the CIOs to tell this !  > >> > > L > > How does changing an OS fix a lack of professionalism and skills?  GivenL > > that new workers have no exposure to VMS concepts or operations it wouldK > > only make matters worse.  Course it would be a boon to oldtimers, but I G > > think companies would consider that to be a negative.  One does not  replace G > > cheap workers with more expensive ones without good reason, and IT,  being a L > > commodity marketplace now, isn't a place where the quality over quantityD > > argument carries much weight.  Now if Indian universities made a	 wholesale  > > shift to VMS...  > F > Why do I have the feeling that the real purpose of this report is to> > persuade the UK Govt. to grant more work permits to Indians?    I Personally I'd have no issue hiring people who graduated from IIT (Indian L Institue of Technology), an MIT clone. I have worked with several grads fromI there - all very technically adept and astute. But then I have also met a K number of highly educated and adept people also educated there and at other J Indian universities (creme de la creme) and found many (not all, not most)G to be highly arrogant and rigid in their thinking - not unlike a lot of 2 Harvard law and MBA grads I have also worked with.  B The c.v. skills listed, while impressive, don't always add up to aL productive employee if there isn't a full-rounded person who plays well with others inside the same body.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:55:10 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>5 Subject: Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit 6 Message-ID: <408A8DDE.B9C11EA7@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: > [snip]' > Yep, been there, saw that first hand.  > C > However, in this case - after two year $45M very mission critical I > project to convert business logic on OpenVMS to Windows (DB was to stay H > on VMS) went south big time, we are now being called back in to figureI > out how the powers that be can save their careers for making such a bad 
 > mistake.  G I know this is drifting off-topic, but perhaps someone here can educate  me...   D When I was young, I was always taught that "It takes a big person toG admit a mistake", yet in real life it now seems that admitting to being D wrong is virtually a cardinal transgression. People will go to theirG deaths, biological or professional, before admitting an error. (Optimal ( case in point: OpenVMS and advertising.)  G It's not easy going through life in the professional world with an I.Q. C equal to my Dad's age when he died (79), but I'm really hoping that F someone can provide a lucid explanation of this phenomenon. I'd really like to understand it.  H > Sometimes, I use the analogy that it is like talking to teenagers i.e.I > no matter how hard you try to give them the benefit of your experience, G > there are some times where they refuse to listen and you just have to ! > let them try it for themselves.   D Another phenomenon that escapes me. Anything "old" is valueless, and5 even the "new" loses value with astonishing rapidity.   G Maybe this is why I've become such a "computer nerd". The machines are,  at least, comprehensible.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:27:28 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)) Subject: Re: Connecting Ethernet Printers ; Message-ID: <4089fac0.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>    Graham Forward (a@b.c) wrote: . > "Joseph Huber" <huber@mppmu.mpg.de> wrote...% > > [...TCP/IP Services LPD setup...]  > K > The example you have given of the queue initialisation looks exactly like L > the sort of thing I'm after.  I am using TCPware rather than the Compaq/HPH > stack.  However I have just read the relevant (LPD) bit of the TCPwareL > manual and it seems to me that this relates to allowing access to users on > remote hosts.   C For a printer with an ethernet interface to be accessed via TCPware B you need to know some bits about the capabilities of the printer'sD ethernet card. There are three TCP/IP protocols related to printing:  C - Telnet: supported by most printers. You need to know the port the +   printer's telnet daemon listens on. Then:   F   $ INIT/QUEUE/PROCESSOR=TCPWARE_TSSYM/ON="host,port[,options]" qname    $ START/QUEUE qname   I   (Telnet printing is called "Terminal Server Print Services" in TCPware. C   You get a raw, binary connection by specifying the option "RAW".)   C - LPD: supported by most printers. You need to know the name of the A   service the printer is offering. You set up a LPS (Line Printer    Services) *client* by calling      $ @TCPWARE:CNFNET LPS   D   (This also offers options concerning the setup of the LPD *server*H    for serving VMS-locally attached printers - answer "no" or to those.)  E - IPP: This is too modern to be supported by many printers, but if it 2   is, it's definitely the best. To set it up, call     $ @TCPWARE:CNFNET IPP   H   (in fact, it's so modern to only be supported by TCPware V5.6. There's.   an ECO for V5.5 to post-install it, though.)  > > The manuals are pretty poor - the indexing particularly, butH > I just want to print to a local printer.  Is LPD the right thing to be, > looking at?  I am extremely ignorant here!  @ For a locally attached printer, you won't need TCP/IP at all ;-)  ' What about using the table of contents?   < All of this is documented in TCPware V5.6 in sections of the< Installation and Configuration Guide in chapter 4 and in the Management Guide in chapter 15.    cu,    Martin --  A  Your mouse has moved.     | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! 4  Windows must be restarted | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG  for the change to take    |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ;  effect. Reboot now? [OK]  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:27:28 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>) Subject: Re: Connecting Ethernet Printers 6 Message-ID: <1040424035724.12017E-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Graham Forward wrote:   > M > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 2 > news:40887BDA.6FE8740C@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... >  > <snip> >  > > F > > Hhmmm... Too bad you're not running Multinet here. Multinet can do > > things like: > > / > > $ MULT SHOW/CONNECTION/SNMP_ADDRESS=a.b.c.d  > > F > > ...which may (or may not) show the TCP ports on which a particularE > > target - such as your printer's network interface - is listening, E > > assuming you know its IP address and assuming it responds to SNMP  > > queries. > > 8 > > Don't know if there's a similar facility in TCPware. > >  > J > I can connect to its HTTP port for set-up programming, and for uploadingH > files to print - from a PC.  All my connections to the VMS machine areL > through dumb terminals or through terminal emulation on a PC.  What I wantG > to find out is how to associate the printer with a device, other than 0 > through LAT, which has been the story to date. > 	 > Graham.   C One neat trick is to set up an LTA device (as you currently do now, C presumably), but when it comes time to set it /spooled, point it at E the LPD queue.  Then programs can write to the LTA device and it will $ come out on your new TCP/IP printer.  D When you create the LTA device (in LAT$SYSTARTUP.COM), you can pointI it to a dummy server and port (SET PORT LTAnnn: /NODE=dummy /PORT=dummy), C or I think you can just not do the SET PORT commands, since they'll  never actually be used.   H Instructions for setting up LPD clients in TCPWARE are in the ManagementC Guide, Chapter 15 for V5.5 (which I happen to have next to my desk, I even though V5.6 is current), in the section about "Line Printer Services K Client".  Basically, in @TCPWARE:CNFNET LPS (documented in the Installation G and Configuration Guide) it asks some questions about default printers, E and then lets you define as many remote printers as you want.  If you F have a suitable PRINTCAP file (presumably imported from a Unix system,G but the one someone else posted might do fine), it extracts the printer F definitions from it for initial setup.  (At least, that's what the doc says, I've never used it.)  D The one tricky bit on printer setup is telling it whether to use theG VMS or LPR print symbiont.  The VMS symbiont does most of the formating D (header pages, page breaks, etc.) on the VMS side and then dumps theC result over to the server telling it to do minimal or no formating. C The LPD symbiont just sends the raw file to the LPD server and lets ? it format it as it will.  (You can send setup modules using the D standard VMS techniques which will get inserted into the file at the appropriate places.)  @ I think the VMS symbiont is more suited when the printer is used@ primarily or exclusively by the VMS system (or VMS systems), and@ when you need control over forms, etc.  The LPD symbiont is more> suited when the printer is shared by other systems, especially> non-VMS systems, and when it is served, for example, by a Unix? (or other non-VMS) box, and you want all the print jobs to have E standardized headers and burst pages, no matter where they came from.   ? For postscript printing, unless you have postscript prologs you : want to insert, you're best bet is probably to use LPD and print/passall.  ? There is nothing that says you can't set up two (or more) print = queues that point to the same printer, with different options @ or different symbionts.  Since they are network print symbionts,A they expect that the printer won't always be available, so unlike ? a local print symbiont, they don't acquire exclusive, permanant @ ownership of the printer, but let go of it when done sending the? file, and wait and retry if it is busy.  So two queues pointing . to the same printer won't deadlock each other.  = There is also IPP (a newer IP printer protocol) and DCPS, but  I haven't used either of these.          --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:42:02 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>) Subject: Re: Connecting Ethernet Printers / Message-ID: <1040424043248.12017F@Ives.egh.com>    On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Z wrote:   
 > Z wrote:1 > > IIRC, $INIT/QUEUE/START/ON=(a.b.c.d:9100) ... ( > > (Obviously, TCPIP/telnet must be up) > > And print to that queue. > 2 > The actual statements we use (we're running UCX,4 > not TCPIP on the system. hence the /proc=ucx$...): >  > $initialize /queue /start - 2 > /default=(noburst,noflag,notrailer,form=smfont)-4 > /library=hplaser4p /noretain /proc=ucx$telnetsym -$ > /on="10.20.100.100:9100" sys$print  < In another post I talked about LPD client queues in TCPWARE.  A For Telnet queues, this is extracted from my system startup file:   2 $ set device lta1:/spooled=(HP5550,sys$sysdevice:)1 $ DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPWARE_TSSYM_HP5550 "logan,9100" 5 $ DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPWARE_TSSYM_POSTSCRIPT "logan,9100" G $ INITIALIZE/QUEUE/START/PROCESSOR=TCPWARE_TSSYM/FORM_MOUNTED=LN_FORM - B                 /RETAIN=ERROR/DEFAULT=(NOFLAG,NOBURST,NOTRAILER) -1                 /ENABLE_GENERIC/RECORD_BLOCKING - H                 /SEPARATE=(NOFLAG,NOBURST,NOTRAILER,RESET=(FF,DECSTR)) -$                 /library=hp_devctl -                         HP5550G $ INITIALIZE/QUEUE/START/PROCESSOR=TCPWARE_TSSYM/FORM_MOUNTED=LN_FORM - B                 /RETAIN=ERROR/DEFAULT=(NOFLAG,NOBURST,NOTRAILER) -3                 /NOENABLE_GENERIC/RECORD_BLOCKING - E                 /SEPARATE=(NOFLAG,NOBURST,NOTRAILER,RESET=(CTRL_D)) - $                 /library=hp_devctl -"                         postscript  D The HP 5550 was a freebie with my Mac Powerbook; logan is my airportC :-) and the HP 5550 is plugged into its USB port.  My old uVAX 3600 B can print just fine to it using these settings.  BTW, hp_devctl isD a device control library containing setup strings originally writtenD for an HP Laserjet III, and still seems to work fine.  Haven't triedD to do too much fancy printing with it, but I just tried something inB landscape mode and that worked.  If you need forms definitions and  setup module contents, just ask.  - (I think DCPS does all this for you, though.)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2004 11:50:38 -05007 From: "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> , Subject: Re: Cut'n'paste and SSH2/TCPIP V5.4. Message-ID: <408a8cce@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>  ? David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@neoasrptahmlnionwk.net> wrote:  : "Gareth V. Williams" wrote: L :>   Having now got home and tried it on my VMS system there, the suggestion :> to: :>   :> SET TERM/HOST/TTSYNC  :>  K :> doesn't help.  The home system is also V7.3-2, TCPIP V5.4 and CDE is the  :> desktop.   H : If SET TERMINAL/HOSTSYNC is ineffective, then it's a fair bet that theH : client(read: terminal( program)) is not honoring <XON>/<XOFF> from theH : host. In whatever terminal program, check to see if there are any flowH : control settings and, if so, make sure they are set to honor XON/XOFF.  A   Unfortunately, there is no terminal program.  The connection is I SSH over a broadband connection from a home VMS box to an office VMS box.      --  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------H Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.+ Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet Center H gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html7 OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systems    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:37:52 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, Subject: Re: Cut'n'paste and SSH2/TCPIP V5.46 Message-ID: <408A89D0.D1CB4AB8@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Gareth V. Williams" wrote:  > 8 > Gareth V. Williams <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> wrote:: > : Bradford J. Hamilton <brad@rabbit.dnsalias.org> wrote:l > : : In article <c6alip$a0cf8$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  > : : !Gareth V. Williams wrote: > : : !<Problem snipped> > : : Folks, > ) > : : Google may have an answer for this:  >  > : : http://tinyurl.com/2co2h > R > : : I've seeen similar queries in the past; a more thorough search of Google mayR > : : bring other results.  I couldn't find this in the FAQ; is this "FAQ-worthy"? > D > :   This should definitely go into the FAQ!  I Googled a number of8 > : variations on cut'n'paste.  Didn't try Cut/Paste :-( >  > :   Thanks for the pointer.  > K >   Having now got home and tried it on my VMS system there, the suggestion  > to:  >  > SET TERM/HOST/TTSYNC > J > doesn't help.  The home system is also V7.3-2, TCPIP V5.4 and CDE is the
 > desktop.  F If SET TERMINAL/HOSTSYNC is ineffective, then it's a fair bet that theF client(read: terminal( program)) is not honoring <XON>/<XOFF> from theF host. In whatever terminal program, check to see if there are any flowF control settings and, if so, make sure they are set to honor XON/XOFF.  . That's about all I can think of on this one...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:23:34 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, Subject: Re: Cut'n'paste and SSH2/TCPIP V5.46 Message-ID: <408A9486.27488B32@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Gareth V. Williams" wrote:  > A > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@neoasrptahmlnionwk.net> wrote:  > : "Gareth V. Williams" wrote: N > :>   Having now got home and tried it on my VMS system there, the suggestion > :> to: > :> > :> SET TERM/HOST/TTSYNC  > :>M > :> doesn't help.  The home system is also V7.3-2, TCPIP V5.4 and CDE is the 
 > :> desktop.  > J > : If SET TERMINAL/HOSTSYNC is ineffective, then it's a fair bet that theJ > : client(read: terminal( program)) is not honoring <XON>/<XOFF> from theJ > : host. In whatever terminal program, check to see if there are any flowJ > : control settings and, if so, make sure they are set to honor XON/XOFF. > C >   Unfortunately, there is no terminal program.  The connection is K > SSH over a broadband connection from a home VMS box to an office VMS box.   C If there's no terminal program involved, I'd be curious to know how 8 you're doing cut-and-paste (VT420 or later?). Still, ...  E In that case, you'll need to refer to the SYSGEN documentation and/or F the SYSMAN on-line help for the bit mask definition of TTY_DEFCHAR. ByG default, bit 4 (16 decimal, %X10) is not set. This is the HOSTSYNC bit. G Try adding a line like this to MODPARAMS on the target machine, and run & AUTOGEN from GENPARAMS through REBOOT:   ADD_TTY_DEFCHAR = %X10  A That said, there are some long-standing issues in UCX, nka TCP/IP E Services for OpenVMS. This may be one of them, even though the SSH(2) G service is relatively new. If you have a support contract, best to open 2 a call with the CSC if this doesn't at least help.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:38:19 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>( Subject: Re: DECW DECTerm startup errors6 Message-ID: <1040424031046.12017H-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ! On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Alder wrote:    > Bob Koehler wrote::  > Y > > In article <0tcic.7928$w63.7125@edtnps89>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:  > > H > >>If I start a DECWindows (V1.2.6) session and then fire up a DECTerm G > >>window, the DECTerm appears and functions, but an error message is   > >>logged that reads: > >>( > >>$ type disk$usr:[<user>.dt]errorlog. > >>> > >>Fri Apr 23 10:24:39 2004 - output from process id 000001C2D > >>-> RCV'D (pid 000001C3): %SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying MBA2501:L > >>-> RCV'D (pid 000001C3): -SET-E-INVDEV, device is invalid for requested 
 > >>operation  > >  > > H > >    Probably a set terminal command in the wrong place in SYS$SYLOGIND > >    or your own LOGIN.COM.  Avoid set terminal unless f$mode() is > >    "INTERACTIVE".  > >  > >  > K > Must be something else.  My SYLOGIN.COM and user LOGIN.COM files all use  E > SET TERM commands, but they're located in the INTERACTIVE sections.  >   H I think the DECTerm process is an INTERACTIVE process.  It's lost in theC mists of time, but my login.com skips the SET TERMINAL stuff if the  terminal is a DECTERM...  L Here's an extract.  (Actually this is a 2nd .COM file called from LOGIN.COM,/ so when it exits, it goes back to LOGIN.COM...)     
 $ set noon $ set noverify $ !     LOGIN_SET_TERMINAL.COM3 $ !     Set terminal characteristics from LOGIN.COM  $ !  $ !     P1 = alternate username + $ if f$mode() .nes. "INTERACTIVE" then exit  $ ! . $ terminal = f$getdvi("sys$command:","devnam")$ $ terminal = f$extract(1,3,terminal)0 $ if terminal .nes. "VTA" then goto nonvirt_term4 $ terminal = f$getdvi("sys$command:","tt_phydevnam")$ $ terminal = f$extract(1,3,terminal) $ nonvirt_term: / $ if terminal .eqs. "NTY" then goto telnet_term / $ if terminal .eqs. "TNA" then goto telnet_term / $ if terminal .eqs. "NTA" then goto telnet_term $ $ terminal = f$extract(0,2,terminal). $ if terminal .eqs. "WT" then goto decnet_term. $ if terminal .eqs. "TW" then goto decnet_term. $ if terminal .eqs. "FT" then goto decnet_term. $ if terminal .eqs. "RT" then goto decnet_term0 $ if .not. f$getdvi("sys$command:","trm") then -         exit $ ! # $ ! Modify terminal characteristics 
 $ local_term: 7 $ phyterminal = f$getdvi("sys$command:","tt_phydevnam") 7 $ if phyterminal .eqs. "_OPA0:" then goto set_proc_name 6 $ IF F$GETDVI("SYS$COMMAND:","DEVTYPE") .EQ. 32 THEN - $       goto set_proc_name $ set terminal/inquire $ set terminal/line * $ if f$getdvi("sys$command:","tt_ansicrt") $   then $       set terminal/hostsync 	 $   endif  $ goto set_proc_name) $ !     telnet (Sun workstation) terminal  $ telnet_term:A $ if f$getdvi("SYS$COMMAND:","TT_ACCPORNAM") .eqs. "mypc.egh.com"  $   then $       goto local_term 	 $   endif " $ set term/dev=vt400/hostsync/line $ goto set_proc_name $ !     decnet terminal  $ decnet_term:B $ !     do nothing...  DECNET propagates terminal characteristics. $ ! Change our process name  $ set_proc_name:. $ terminal = f$getdvi("sys$command:","devnam")W $ !write sys$output "Terminal ''terminal' (''f$getdvi("sys$command:","tt_phydevnam")')" 7 $ terminal = f$extract(1,f$length(terminal)-2,terminal) 4 $ user_name = f$edit(f$getjpi("","USERNAME"),"TRIM")$ $ if p1 .nes. "" then user_name = p1' $ process_name = user_name+"_"+terminal * $ IF F$LENGTH(process_name) .GT. 15 THEN -P $       process_name = F$EXTRACT(0,14-F$LENGTH(terminal),user_name)+"_"+terminal$ $ SET PROCESS/NAME="''process_name'" $ exit      C I thought of just posting the relevent bits, but it got so tangled, ) it was clearer to post the whole thing...   E A lot of it is very ad hoc, but the relevent bit is the part where it D skips down to the label decnet_term: if the device name is "FTAnnn:"  G As the comment says, DECnet propagates the terminal characteristics, so G there is no need to set them.  DECWindows seems to acquire the terminal H characteristics from the settings in the DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT file.  G This works fine for DECTerms running (client) on VAX and Alpha VMS, and D displaying (X server) on Alpha VMS, DEC Unix on an AlphaStation, andA Mac OS X on a Powerbook, and has for years (many versions of VMS,  DECwindows, etc.)   @ One known problem: I recently discovered that TCPWare's SSH usesE FT devices, so they don't get their characteristics set automatically B at login.  I'm not sure how to tell in DCL that your "terminal" is connected through SSH.  E The telnet client on my PC (mypc.egh.com) is Kermit-95, which handles A $ Set terminal/inquire just fine.  I've seen other telnet clients  wedge when you try this.    D > >>-> RCV'D (pid 000001C3): %SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying MBA2501:L > >>-> RCV'D (pid 000001C3): -SET-E-INVDEV, device is invalid for requested 
 > >>operation D > >>-> RCV'D (pid 000001C3): %SET-W-NOTSET, error modifying MBA2501:L > >>-> RCV'D (pid 000001C3): -SET-E-INVDEV, device is invalid for requested 
 > >>operation O > >>-> RCV'D (pid 000001C3):   <USER>     logged out at 23-APR-2004 10:24:47.05  > >> > >  > > H > >    Some process ended.  If this is killing your DECterm, check thoseH > >    login files.  It might simply be the end of the log when you do a > >    normal DECterm exit.  > >  > J > It's not killing my DECTerm, but I suspect the "logged out" message and H > the MBA errors have something to do with the fact that my X server is K > not on the VMS system, but on a PC (Cygwin).  Perhaps DECWindows assumes  H > the X server is local to the VMS system and uses some kind of session K > and the MBA devices in its attempts to communicate with the non-existent  
 > X server???  >  > Terry   D Don't know about the MBA message; I never see that, and my procedure@ isn't explicitly testing for mailboxes.  I think you get this inE batch jobs when you try to set terminal characteristics, so something  similar might be happening.   D Maybe if you turn on verification in your LOGIN.COM, you'll get more context in your DECterm log?   HTH          --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:11:40 +0200 * From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>1 Subject: Re: Disk De-Frag utilities, suggestions? - Message-ID: <c6d0f3$1gop$1@news.cybercity.dk>   / "Lee" <lytmah@telusplanet.net> wrote in message   news:uOkic.39$X52.19@clgrps12...I > I've been using Diskeeper from Executive Software for approx. 10 years.tG > I haven't had any problems with it.  Just set it and forget about it.e  K Is Diskeeper still owned by scientologists?  In that case  you forget aboutkE them if you are in pharmaceutical industry.  Scientology hates psychosI pharmacals and they will not sell to you.  At least they would not when Ic was system manager.h   Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:41:38 -0500u@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>1 Subject: Re: Disk De-Frag utilities, suggestions?r6 Message-ID: <408A8AB2.7C2D7F52@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:a > 1 > "Lee" <lytmah@telusplanet.net> wrote in messagei" > news:uOkic.39$X52.19@clgrps12...K > > I've been using Diskeeper from Executive Software for approx. 10 years.eI > > I haven't had any problems with it.  Just set it and forget about it.r > M > Is Diskeeper still owned by scientologists?  In that case  you forget about G > them if you are in pharmaceutical industry.  Scientology hates psychoeK > pharmacals and they will not sell to you.  At least they would not when Ib > was system manager.   F Yeah - that's part of stigma that remains attached to them. That's theB main reason why I recommend Raxco over Diskeeper even to this day.   --   David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systems, http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Apr 2004 07:28:55 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>= Subject: Re: Error making ImageMagicK, where is missing file?e? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-CTue8t4JIffO@dave2_os2.home.ours>A  F On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:45:01 UTC, bleau@UMTOF.UMD.EDU (Lawrence Bleau) wrote:  ? > Okay, here's an update: I downloaded a more recent release of-E > ImageMagick, v5.5.1-1, and did a @MAKE.  This compilted without any<J > errors; hooray!  (Btw, for those who are new to this thread, I'm running > OpenVMS V7.1-2 on an Alpha.) > G > I next tried to use the convert utility to convert a PS file to a GIFcK > file.  I defined a new symbol CONVERT and invoked the utility as follows:  > B > $ CONVERT ULEIS_2004_101_2004_105.PS ULEIS_2004_101_2004_105.GIFM > %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character M > %DCL-W-NOCOMD, no command on line - reenter with alphabetic first character P > _uleis$dkc0:[software.imagemagick.utilities]convert.exe;1: Postscript delegate% > failed [no such file or directory].n >   D I had the same thought as Glenn but then came back and saw that the D error message mentions the imagemagick image. CONVERT is a standard . VMS Verb so I would have done something like:-  C IM_CONVERT :== $_uleis$dkc0:[software.imagemagick.utilities]convertN  
 or shorter  @ IM_CVT :== $ _uleis$dkc0:[software.imagemagick.utilities]convert  ? Redefining DCL verbs is one of my pet hates. Particularly when wF someone's personal preference is forced project wide. I was at a site F last week and used DIF on files that I new were different but nothing D apppeared. After much head scratching I discovered that the project E login had DIF redined as DIF /OUT and a .DIF file was being created. > Bah!!c   -- B Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2004 12:05:49 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)c= Subject: Re: Error making ImageMagicK, where is missing file?o! Message-ID: <2Aj7rUFzOFgS@sinead>   ] In article <c6bp08$q49$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>, bleau@UMTOF.UMD.EDU (Lawrence Bleau) writes:rq > In article <sv7+RMDvlHaZ@sinead>, pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) writes:t >>L >>You just need Ghostscript to perform PS to GIF conversion (old versions ofK >>Ghostscript only). If you have Ghostscript installed, XV is also able to  : >>convert your PS files  (but only in interactive mode).   > K > I can't seem to find a copy of GhostScript for VMS that has this option. uK > All the pointers I get are for Ghostscript without GIF output capability, % > or for some other (costly) package.   F Ghostscript 3.12 had the gif output capability. You can find it at the DECindows archive:  " http://decwarch.free.fr/pspdf.html   Patrickc --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:36:00 +0100.5 From: "Malcolm" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>eN Subject: Games from ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (was re: Tetris assembleur VAX + SMG)/ Message-ID: <c6djbq$gtv$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>t  K Did no one archive all of the games off of ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu , which now  seems to have vanished?.  G I got as far as M (moria_443) :( But they had a Tetris game on there...u  J Was somewhat hampered by the fact that the ftp server they had there had aI bug and would crash after I'd retrieved 70 or so files... Or I would havei had them all :(w   -M.    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Apr 2004 05:26:26 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...k? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-ydILFyCJihgY@dave2_os2.home.ours>s  F On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:45:24 UTC, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:   > J > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:ibcP2tXkltQa@eisner.encompasserve.org...rA > > In article <c67olc$3m1$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad"0 > <nospam@nospam.com> writes:d > > >cM > > > Besides, DECnet might be secure, but I also remember it as needing lots  > ofM > > > resources, e.g., it was extremely slow to start a file transfer because  > someL > > > fool had got the idea that peoples login.com should be executed before > thei# > > > actual file transfer started.  > >aG > >    I'll give up a little bit of performance for a heap of security.y6 > >    I end up getting a lot more work done that way. > >=J > The idea of staring a user process is fine, but much overhead could haveK > been avoided by not starting the CLI and not executing the LOGIN.COM.  In J > stead file transfers could be started right after checking user name andI > password.  I have always thought starting the CLI as an attempt to makeu' > Digitals customers buy more machines.s  F I'm a little rusty on this but could one have done the (transparent?) D DecNet communication/Remote execution trick of OPENing a remote DCL , procedure without the LOGIN being executed?    -- w Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2004 05:57:40 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...o= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0404240457.2e62bf70@posting.google.com>i  y "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote in message news:<DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-ydILFyCJihgY@dave2_os2.home.ours>...nH > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:45:24 UTC, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> > wrote: >  > > L > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:ibcP2tXkltQa@eisner.encompasserve.org...-C > > > In article <c67olc$3m1$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad"h >  <nospam@nospam.com> writes: > > > >BO > > > > Besides, DECnet might be secure, but I also remember it as needing lots. >  of O > > > > resources, e.g., it was extremely slow to start a file transfer because1 >  somesN > > > > fool had got the idea that peoples login.com should be executed before >  the% > > > > actual file transfer started.. > > >0I > > >    I'll give up a little bit of performance for a heap of security.h8 > > >    I end up getting a lot more work done that way. > > > L > > The idea of staring a user process is fine, but much overhead could haveM > > been avoided by not starting the CLI and not executing the LOGIN.COM.  In L > > stead file transfers could be started right after checking user name andK > > password.  I have always thought starting the CLI as an attempt to makeg) > > Digitals customers buy more machines.  > H > I'm a little rusty on this but could one have done the (transparent?) F > DecNet communication/Remote execution trick of OPENing a remote DCL - > procedure without the LOGIN being executed?    you mean running tasks? :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 05:32:59 -0400o  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...y6 Message-ID: <1040424051722.12017C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  = On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:    > Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article <c60obf$shi$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > > < > >>As usual when stripped down your point doesn't look that > >>compelling does it.n > >  > > H > >    The point of contention is what technology exists other than SAN.% > >    The reality is it does exists.o > >  > " > It exists but you cannot buy it.  D Of course you can buy it, just not from HP.  (The hardware, that is.; The software still is supported and can be bought from HP.)n  ? You can buy DSSI controllers and disks (I'm pretty sure they're ? supported on XMI-based Alphas as well as on VAXes), and MASSBUSeA disks on Ebay and from used equipment vendors, install it on yourl? VAX or Alpha 7/8000, and use it with VMS V7.3-2.  They're still.A supported.  If you have DSSI disks on your VAX, you can still get1? an HP hardware support contract for them, and they're supportedO in VAX VMS 7.3.:  < I don't know if you can still buy PCI CI interfaces from HP,< but they are definitely still supported on relatively modern> systems (definitely on AS 4100's, but probably every PCI-based> Alpha), and so are HSC's and HSJ's, and the SDI and SCSI disks and tapes they connect.n  ? No one mentioned NI (Ethernet and FDDI) clustering, which worksu? over 10 and 100 Mb ethernet and FDDI (and probably Gb Ethernet, < just haven't seen it myself), still available and supported,: and with MSCP disk and tape serving, allows hosts to serve= their local disks and tapes to all the other cluster members.a  ; And mixed clusters, where the Alpha (or Itanium) on the SAN"9 can MSCP serve the SAN disks over the ethernet to an old,r= non-fibre-capable system.  Same goes for shared (dual-hosted)e
 SCSI storage.l     >  > So for new customers ??????? > , > Doesn't that just about sum up the problem. > with OpenVMS in general. Though in OpenVMS's. > case it exists but none wants to sell it too > you. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisonr   -- o John Santoso Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:00:58 +0200t5 From: "Berdt van der Lingen" <berdt@n0spam-xs4all.nl>o+ Subject: OpenVMS newbie  - AlphaStation 233u6 Message-ID: <408a2cd1$0$21804$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Hi all,a  H I'm a OpenVMS beginner and I want to learn the OpenVMS operating system.H Is a AlphaStation 233 with 64 mb ram and a 2 gb SCSI disk suitable for a newbie?t Should I buy more ram?  
 Wish me luck!    regards,   Berdt van der Lingen   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 05:57:05 -0400r  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>. Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie - AlphaStation 2336 Message-ID: <1040424053359.12017D-100000@Ives.egh.com>  0 On Sat, 24 Apr 2004, Berdt van der Lingen wrote:  	 > Hi all,m > J > I'm a OpenVMS beginner and I want to learn the OpenVMS operating system.J > Is a AlphaStation 233 with 64 mb ram and a 2 gb SCSI disk suitable for a	 > newbie?a > Should I buy more ram? >  > Wish me luck!m > 
 > regards, >  > Berdt van der Lingen  ? 64MB is marginal.  It will work, but it will work *much* bettera= with more memory.  128 would help a lot.  256MB is probably a ? good amount unless you are running Mozilla and/or lots of Java,a@ in which case, 512 or 1GB would serve you well!  In other words, it depends.   A I don't know what type of memory your AlphaStation takes, or what ? the limit is.  Many of them use standard commodity memory SIMMsrA (usually parity or ECC, depending) so shouldn't be too expensive.r< However, some use special memory that is hard to come by and= very expensive.  If that's the case, maybe you can find cheap 5 memory for it on Ebay or from used equipment vendors.n    = 2GB disk is okay, but not huge for a system disk.  I once gotp= about 5 2GB drives for about $25 (total) on Ebay (DEC RZ28 in ; storage works cases.)  I pulled a couple of them out of theeC cases and installed them inside a pair of AlphaStation 200 4/100's.:  < I'd recommend either a 2nd drive or a 4GB drive, if you plan= to put anything big on it (Java and lots of open-source stuffe really munches disk space.)a    : The Alphastation 200 I mentioned has 288MB (3*128MB is the< max for this model, I think), is probably less than half the= speed of yours, and has a 2GB disk.  I don't worry much about:; disk space because it is clustered with some other machinesi7 with much bigger disks, but if it were stand-alone, I'd 8 definitely want more.  It has DECWindows, Java, Mozilla,; and a bunch of other stuff on it, and it's slow, but barely 8 tolerable.  It makes a fine terminal, displaying lots of1 DECTerm windows running on other cluster members.   ) Your system should be a lot more capable.t    
 Good Luck!     -- t John Santosm Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:45:54 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply). Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie - AlphaStation 233$ Message-ID: <c6dgh2$3eb$2@online.de>  B In article <1040424053359.12017D-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:    L > > I'm a OpenVMS beginner and I want to learn the OpenVMS operating system.L > > Is a AlphaStation 233 with 64 mb ram and a 2 gb SCSI disk suitable for a > > newbie?d > > Should I buy more ram? > A > 64MB is marginal.  It will work, but it will work *much* betterJ? > with more memory.  128 would help a lot.  256MB is probably a-A > good amount unless you are running Mozilla and/or lots of Java,0B > in which case, 512 or 1GB would serve you well!  In other words,
 > it depends.O  G I have a 255/233 (which is probably what the above refers to).  It will.H run 7.3-1 with 64 MB ram.  64 MB is the MINIMUM in the SPD for 7.3-2, soE yes more memory would be good, but not absolutely essential.  (By theCC way, I am running 7.3-1 on a DEC 3000/300 LX with 48 MB RAM.  WorkstF fine.  I suppose I will have to get at least 64 to run 7.3-2, or is itB possible that 64 is required to INSTALL 7.3-2 but it will run with less?) a  E Of course, Mozilla requires a lot, but then again your machine might '+ also be too slow to make Mozilla practical.   ? > 2GB disk is okay, but not huge for a system disk.  I once gota? > about 5 2GB drives for about $25 (total) on Ebay (DEC RZ28 inS= > storage works cases.)  I pulled a couple of them out of theaE > cases and installed them inside a pair of AlphaStation 200 4/100's.e > > > I'd recommend either a 2nd drive or a 4GB drive, if you plan? > to put anything big on it (Java and lots of open-source stuffd > really munches disk space.)   F I think more important than more memory is a second disk.  Definitely E have a dedicated disk for the system, and put other stuff on another o disk.     H 2 GB is enough for an ALPHA system disk, but barely.  I would recommend  4 GB.y   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:57:16 -0500 (CDT)u From: sms@antinode.org. Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie - AlphaStation 233) Message-ID: <04042409571610@antinode.org>o    From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>  > > [...] in which case, 512 or 1GB would serve you well!  [...]  ;    It may be difficult to get 1GB working in an AlpSta 200.n  C > I don't know what type of memory your AlphaStation takes, or whatP > the limit is.  [...]  D    According to the manual, "The system requires 72-pin parity SIMMsH that have an access time of 70 ns (nanoseconds) or 60 ns."  It also saysF that the maximum is "192 MB (384 MB when 64-MB SIMMs are available)".   In fact, with (six) 128MB SIMMs:   ALP $ show memory /physicalo@               System Memory Resources on 24-APR-2004 10:04:53.10  L Physical Memory Usage (pages):     Total        Free      In Use    ModifiedL   Main Memory (768.00MB)           98304       11009       70004       17291    H    Be sure to get "true" parity SIMMs, not the so-called "logic" parity,E which will not work here.  (Beware of SIMMs with eight matched memorye' chips plus one small, non-memory chip.)g  G    I also have a bigger disk (18GB, "FUJITSU MAA3182SC"), but it's easyt7 enough to upgrade the disk when you fill the small one.   B    And, I predict, Mozilla will be slow, which is why I try to use1 (the much perkier) Netscape 3 whenever practical.o  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orge    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:37:25 -0600b  From: "Dan Notov" <danno@hp.com>& Subject: Re: OT: HP and Desktop Blades, Message-ID: <4089e148$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  F Au contraire, it's called CCI, for Consolidated Client Infrastructure: http://www.hp.com/go/cci/t    > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:40898C30.65AA7BD4@firstdbasource.com...J > the words desktop and blade are diametrically opposed to each other. TheJ > data center I just left, had 6-8 racks of the HP blade servers that wereI > primarily used as Citrix servers.  A standard rack contained 48 serversaJ > in each rack.  So if this is what you were talking about, then yes, they > are available. >o > Michael Austin > Need a VMS-extrorardanaire?t >i >t > Fabio Cardoso wrote: >iD > > Anyone at HP know if the company still developing Desktop Blades' > > as announce in this old Cnet news ?C > >u% > > "HP to introduce desktop blades":  > > . > > http://news.com.com/2100-1003-5102943.html > >- > > Regards5 > >  > > FC >-   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:41:04 +0000 (UTC)JP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  Subject: Re: shadowing questions$ Message-ID: <c6dg80$3eb$1@online.de>  H In article <c6cp74$i17$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:   J > Very weird it's owned by "CLUSTER_SERVER".  Perhaps you (or someone) didK > a SYSMAN> DO MOUNT DSA114: label [no /SYSTEM] ?  Or a SYSMAN> DO ALLOCATEe
 > DSA114:?   Perhaps the former is possible.r  F Is there anyway to dismount it without doing a reboot?  Note that the C mount count is only 2, i.e. for the two other nodes it is properly D mounted on.s   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:29:04 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)? Subject: TCPIP 5.3, VAX VMS 7.3: how did this mail get through?T$ Message-ID: <c6dmig$mcj$1@online.de>  A Of course, I get a lot of spam to older email addresses which areRG forwarded to my current address, but I've tried to keep the new address_F spam-free by not posting them in the clear on usenet or the web, whichD has been relatively successful.  Normally, I put a spam block in theF DOMAIN and not in the USERNAME, since in the latter case the spam willE still get to my cluster, though it shouldn't be delivered to any userN? (thus, it is an additional burden on my cluster).  However, oneOB moderated newsgroup I sometimes post to has a moderator whose newsD server allows posts only from valid domains.  Thus, he moved my spamA block from the domain to the username.  OK, it should still be aneA invalid address. However, it appears that spam sent to this bogus B address actually gets through, though when I try it myself (from aG remote machine connected to my cluster only via the internet), the mailt bounces, as I would expect.   - Can anyone explain how this mail got through?   + There is no FORWARD set for helbig-CLOTHES.i  I On a related note: am I correct in assuming that any "send email to this  E address to get removed from our list" does no such thing, but rather kC serves to confirm that the email address from which such a removal rC request is sent is in fact a working email address which gets read?-  D I haven't gotten around to reporting spam yet; anyone who can do so * please feel free to report the spam below.  N ---------8<-------------------------------------------------------------------  A From:	SMTP%"anthonthonia1@rediffmail.com" 24-APR-2004 13:04:08.45G$ To:	helbig-CLOTHES@astro.multivax.de CC:	+ Subj:	Musical - Merchandise Time:6:38:09 AM   ! This is a multipart MIME message.T  " --= Multipart Boundary Apr24040638+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="DEFAULT"4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   
 Hi,  helbich,/     ***SCROLL ^DOWN TO - READ***0 ***MUSIC UPDATES & INFO YOU H-AVE RE_Q-UESTED***    $ R&B Recording Artist G "LIVE OR DIE" 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						 						# instrumental hip hop, r&b, neo-soul- Album IN STORES EVERYWHERE& For A FREE CD Sampler email your name ! & address & telephone number to: O# Ballerentertainment1@rediffmail.comd$ and we will mail you a FREE CD ASAP. or Download The Full Song Now.      L Please note that this email address cannot accept replies. Therefore, if youJ have any questions or comments requarding this ALBUM, please contact us at$ Ballerentertainment1@rediffmail.com.      .        K We are strongly against sending unsolicited emails to those who do not wishmH to receive our special mailings. You have opted in to one or more of ourT affiliate sites requesting to be notified of any special offers we may run from timeS to time. We also have attained the services of an independent 3rd party to overlooktN list management and removal services. This is NOT unsolicited email. If you doc not wish to receive further mailings, please send email to:notreadymaybenexttime2006@rediffmail.comPI to be removed from the list. Please accept our apologies if you have beenn sent this email in error.   < ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////2 ***Under Bill S.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th4 U.S. Congress this letter Can Not be Considered Spam, as long as we include the way to be removed.H To be removed send an email to: notreadymaybenexttime2006@rediffmail.com  < ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////I This message is sent in compliance with the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301.rG http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/S771index.html Sender:iJ "Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions toR you by sender of this email may be stopped, at no cost to you, by sending an emailP to: notreadymaybenexttime2006@rediffmail.com with "Remove" in the subject line."< ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////I We believe in responsible targeted mailing.  Your name was supplied to us J because You Responded To Our NEWSPAPER/ Online News Group/ FFA ClassifiedsI Advertisement as someone who may be interested in this offer.  If not, we Q apologize for the intrusion. If you wish to be removed from this future mailings, e please send an email to: notreadymaybenexttime2006@rediffmail.com. with "Remove" in the subject line,iD and this software will automatically block you from future mailings.; ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////p  K This mailing list is opt-in/subscriber ONLY.  This is NOT SPAM and is neverpO sent unsolicited.  You are receiving this email because you or someone you know O has subscribed for you at one of our associate web sites that offer free email, X subscriptions and newsletters.  If you no longer wish to receive any of our mailings you^ may be permanently removed by sending and email to: notreadymaybenexttime2006@rediffmail..com. Thanks  " --= Multipart Boundary Apr24040638' Content-Type: application/octet-stream;r 	name="Track01.cda"n! Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64h  Content-Disposition: attachment; 	filename="Track01.cda",  < UklGRiQAAABDRERBZm10IBgAAAABAAEARAKKAAAAAACORgAAAAIAAD4ABAA=  $ --= Multipart Boundary Apr24040638--5 ================== RFC 822 Headers ==================A) Return-Path: anthonthonia1@rediffmail.com00 Received: from rly-ip04.mx.aol.com (64.12.138.8)< 	 by daneel.robots.multivax.de (V5.3-18G, OpenVMS V7.3 VAX);  	Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:03:12 +0100 Received: from  smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com (smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com [205.188.118.19]) by rly-ip04.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id RELAYIN1-2408a44b1225; Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:42:57 -0400.; Received: from plain (AC894F12.ipt.aol.com [172.137.79.18])dK 	by smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i3O9dgtI013300;0 	Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:43:19 GMTB Message-Id: <200404241043.i3O9dgtI013300@smtp-dtc05.proxy.aol.com>& From: helbig-CLOTHES@astro.multivax.de& Reply-To: anthonthonia1@rediffmail.com$ To: helbig-CLOTHES@astro.multivax.de. Subject: Musical - Merchandise Time:6:38:09 AM Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:38:09m Mime-Version: 1.0  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;, 	boundary="= Multipart Boundary Apr24040638" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.40u* X-Apparently-From: DMMarketingSvcs@aol.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.118.19   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:23:56 +0200o* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>C Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.3, VAX VMS 7.3: how did this mail get through?D9 Message-ID: <c6dppd$aoqc0$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>s  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: C > Of course, I get a lot of spam to older email addresses which arerI > forwarded to my current address, but I've tried to keep the new address"H > spam-free by not posting them in the clear on usenet or the web, whichF > has been relatively successful.  Normally, I put a spam block in theH > DOMAIN and not in the USERNAME, since in the latter case the spam willG > still get to my cluster, though it shouldn't be delivered to any userEA > (thus, it is an additional burden on my cluster).  However, onerD > moderated newsgroup I sometimes post to has a moderator whose newsF > server allows posts only from valid domains.  Thus, he moved my spamC > block from the domain to the username.  OK, it should still be aniC > invalid address. However, it appears that spam sent to this bogusdD > address actually gets through, though when I try it myself (from aI > remote machine connected to my cluster only via the internet), the mails > bounces, as I would expect.  > / > Can anyone explain how this mail got through?  >e  E Sorry, no time at the moment to analyze how it got through, but I'll NH mention that Ts & Cs of the news server I use request that I post using  a valid email address.  I In response to the Swen virus which harvested newsgroup email addresses, iF I simply created the VMS account you see in my email address and have H found it to be extremely effective in avoiding spam; probably less than D 10 spams received there since I started using it at the end of last B September. it also means that anyone replying to me by email from @ newsgroup postings can do so without having to edit the address.    - > There is no FORWARD set for helbig-CLOTHES.g > K > On a related note: am I correct in assuming that any "send email to this  G > address to get removed from our list" does no such thing, but rather fE > serves to confirm that the email address from which such a removal sE > request is sent is in fact a working email address which gets read?o >   F That's the assumption I make, unless it comes from well known company.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:13:00 +0000 (UTC)vP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)C Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.3, VAX VMS 7.3: how did this mail get through?.$ Message-ID: <c6e05s$9k2$1@online.de>  D In article <c6dppd$aoqc0$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:   K > In response to the Swen virus which harvested newsgroup email addresses, mH > I simply created the VMS account you see in my email address and have J > found it to be extremely effective in avoiding spam; probably less than F > 10 spams received there since I started using it at the end of last D > September. it also means that anyone replying to me by email from B > newsgroup postings can do so without having to edit the address.  H This means it is a valid email address, and since it is in the clear it 2 can be harvested.  Why does it get so little spam?   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:58:45 +0000 (UTC)eP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)3 Subject: what do the letters after the numbers meanw$ Message-ID: <c6doa5$r68$1@online.de>  G What do the letters after the numbers mean in these disk model numbers?s   RZ23Ln RZ26LE RZ26Nr RZ29L-AA RZ29L-AS  1 What about the letters after the "6" in BA356-%%?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:48:58 -0400r' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>s7 Subject: Re: what do the letters after the numbers mean 0 Message-ID: <a92e6c.civ.ln@dadsys2.fuller.local>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:   I > What do the letters after the numbers mean in these disk model numbers?S >  > RZ23Ln > RZ26L  > RZ26N(
 > RZ29L-AA
 > RZ29L-AS > 3 > What about the letters after the "6" in BA356-%%?v  L On the disk drives, the "L" generally meant "low-profile" or "lower-cost".  L The "N" doesn't really have a meaning -- it's just a different variant of a 
 1GB drive.  J The -AA and -AS are the vendors of the drive.  Look at the labels to find  out which is which.r  J The letters after the BA356-?? mean a variety of things.  Give an example  of what you're looking for.p -- o           StuD   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2004 17:57:28 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40),7 Subject: Re: what do the letters after the numbers mean ! Message-ID: <Nz44Ou+6f7iU@sinead>   w In article <c6doa5$r68$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:oI > What do the letters after the numbers mean in these disk model numbers?S >  > RZ23Lo > RZ26Ly > RZ26Ne
 > RZ29L-AA
 > RZ29L-AS > 3 > What about the letters after the "6" in BA356-%%?m  I RZ26L: L for Loud   :-) (very noisy moving heads, like pop corn cooking).    Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================l   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:05:45 +0200e, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>7 Subject: Re: what do the letters after the numbers meane9 Message-ID: <c6e6tb$auds3$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>e  L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>1 schreef in bericht news:c6doa5$r68$1@online.de...fI > What do the letters after the numbers mean in these disk model numbers?s >y > RZ23Lr > RZ26Ld > RZ26Nl
 > RZ29L-AA
 > RZ29L-AS > 3 > What about the letters after the "6" in BA356-%%?e >yE If you promise not to laugh too loudly I'll let you in on the secret.-( The L stands for Large, possibly Larger.K The RZ23L has approx.  18% more storage capacity. It is 123 MB, the RZ23 isR 104MB IIRC.aH The two together are smaller than than the differences in RZ28 models...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:18:47 -0700o From: Xmcd Admin <xmcd@amb.org>5E Subject: Xmcd 3.3.0 CD player/ripper VMS pre-compiled binaries now up 2 Message-ID: <XqudnVHtroRVmxfdRVn-sQ@speakeasy.net>   Hi all,   I This is to announce that the long-awaited xmcd-3.3.0 pre-compiled binary lF kits for OpenVMS 7.2 and later (both Alpha and VAX) are now available K for free download at the xmcd web site.  The source code is also available.l  F Xmcd is the premier CD player and ripper software for Linux, Unix and I VMS platforms.  For full details and downloads please visit the xmcd web a site:  	e 	http://www.amb.org/xmcd/r  C The current xmcd source code version is 3.3.2, however there is no /C change between 3.3.0 and 3.3.2 that would affect VMS, thus the VMS w binary kits remain at 3.3.0.  	 Have fun,-   -Ti- -- - \\ // Ti Kan6   \\/  xmcd - Take the CD player to the nth dimension.   //\a // \\ http://www.amb.org/xmcd/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:23:54 +0200e* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's costl9 Message-ID: <c6dioa$aqgcg$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>r   Hans Vlems wrote: ; > "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> schreef in berichth5 > news:c687mi$8pn7e$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de...w >  >>Andrew Harrison wrote: >> >>>Hans Vlems wrote: >>>  >>> = >>>>"Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> schreef in bericht 7 >>>>news:c60svh$6k0a8$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de...e >>>> >>>> >>>>>John Smith wrote: >>>>>  >>>>>0H > http://update.informationweek.com/cgi-bin4/DM/y/egYw0GMMYy0G6p0CUFe0AD > 
 >>>>>>YMMV >>>>>> >>>>>eH >>>>>Interesting given my experience with Linux. Back with SuSE 7.n, theK >>>>>networking was not only a pain to configure, but when I added an extravI >>>>>NIC (identical), it wouldn't see both. Solution: get a couple of new  >  > el > I >>>>>cheapo NICs, wnd they coexisted happily. I was quite happy with thatt6 >>>>>distribution once I'd got it configured properly. >  >  > [snip] >  > G >>I gave up on Winmodems long ago. I still have an aversion to internallH >>modems unless they have a reset button, as you can power external ones= >>off without shutting the entire system if they get "stuck".  >> >>@ >>>Everything else works remarkably well, DVD reader, CD writer,& >>>USB flash cards, Palm USB sync etc. >>>D >>F >>I believe you, but the point Hans and I are making is that there areI >>still pitfalls, upgrades can break stuff, and if we as IT professionals/A >>find it hard work, what chance do Joe and Jane Home User stand?D >> > J > Glad you brought that up again Paul, because that's exactly the issue weG > were discussing. It is quite possible to install a product on a linuxjD  > platform and get it up and running. The two points we were making > were:F > E > 1-It is yet quite another thing to keep it running after an upgradeT7 > 2-Can a person untrained in IT lore do the same thingM >H  B Point 2 is a tricky one to answer. There is certainly a different D culture to familiarise yourself with. It's been a long time since I F ventured onto any Linux news groups, but at the time they were pretty @ hostile to novices, with cries of "Read the HOWTO" and "Newbie".  J > The conclusion is that a linux o/s upgrade is not upwards compatible and< > that you need some knowledge about the os to make it work. >   C And as I found to my cost, the hassle of identifying hardware that cI doesn't work, finding out why, and then obtaining and fitting a suitable  D replacement. I wasn't too bothered about the cost, as such stuff is F generally cheap, but the time and hassle it took could easily put off 
 the newcomer.=  E My personal feeling is one of disappointment really. I was perfectly  H happy with SuSE 7.n, but went for later versions mainly to keep up with H security patches. SuSE 8.n (don't remember exactly which .n) also broke 0 my system BTW, so it's not a happy track record.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:41:30 +0200/* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>5 Subject: Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's costi9 Message-ID: <c6djpb$at5af$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>=   GreyCloud wrote: > Hans Vlems wrote:- > ; >>"Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> schreef in bericht05 >>news:c60svh$6k0a8$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de.... >> >>>John Smith wrote: >>>.J >>>>http://update.informationweek.com/cgi-bin4/DM/y/egYw0GMMYy0G6p0CUFe0AD >>>> >>>>YMMV >>>> >>> F >>>Interesting given my experience with Linux. Back with SuSE 7.n, theC >>>networking was not only a pain to configure, but when I added anBF >>>extra NIC (identical), it wouldn't see both. Solution: get a coupleG >>>of new el cheapo NICs, wnd they coexisted happily. I was quite happy'> >>>with that distribution once I'd got it configured properly. >>>MG >>>I finally upgraded to SuSE 9.0 last year, and that was a mistake. OnrB >>>one PC, the graphics came out so tiny they were unreadable, andG >>>didn't offer the means to change the resolution. On the PC with twintC >>>NICs, I couldn't get either to talk, so I was off to buy another G >>>cheap NIC. On that PC, it would often "lose" both sound and randomlyKE >>>start interpreting the keyboard as German instead of Swiss German.e >>>cC >>>I also found the SuSE 9.0 installation somewhat too dumbed down.n@ >>>Whenever I tried to get into "expert mode" it really tried to >>>dissuade me from doing so.e >>>hG >>>OK, I could no doubt have coaxed them both into life eventually, buteE >>>once I'd got OpenOffice running on my Mac, I simply lost interest.e >>>  >>>YMMV etct >>>i >>C >>On a similar note: I'd been running RedHat 7.1 quite wel on a PC,lE >>standard configuration. Even Windows2000 installs without a problemf >>on it.D >>The Audigy soundcard was not supported but that did not bother me.@ >>RedHat 8 did support the soundcard but messed up the graphics.D >>RedHat 9 offered proper graphics (KDE) but the soundcard no longer5 >>worked. After that I gave the diskspace to Windows.s >>D >>Yesterday I upgraded another PC from RedHat 7.2 to 9. KDE lost allG >>contents in the toolbar, all it shows are cog icons. I've got severale >>books on Linux and need'1 >>them all, often and not always finding answers.eB >>Linux is a great operating system if you happen to like building >>them. Not sure at what5 >>point in time they should allow users on it though.- >> >  > L > It is not a problem anymore.  Suse's latest version should work very well.4 > A lot of people prefer Suse over RedHats versions.   Cough, choke, splutter...e  G Version 9.0 which I was talking about _is_ the latest version. V9.1 is e due in early May. Seea  D http://www.suse.com/us/private/products/suse_linux/preview/prof.html  G for details. It includes a "fully ported 64-bit version for AMD64 and KF Intel Extended Memory 64 Technology", so it should be interesting to " see how the market responds to it.   >  It seems that some M > didn't like redhats' startup scripts and even said they were screwed pretty1L > bad compared to a BSD implementation.  I never really liked redhat, but it: > doesn't mean it won't work on a different configuration.M > Most like to get gentoo linux by downloading and compiling the whole works.lM > Many claim that compiling for your specific configuration provides superiorh  > speed and a smaller footprint. >  >   E I tried RedHat 6.0, which I chosemainly because it was advertised as lD having plenty of documentation (at the time, the only Linux books I I could find in the shops tended to concentrate solely on the installation  6 of whatever flavour of Linux was on the enclosed CDs).  @ That documentation was a disappointment, as a large chunk of it F consisted of a short parqagraph on each and every utility included in  the distribution.a  I I got the feeling then, and still have it, that Redhat is more suited to kF someone doing a large rollout of similar systems than for the typical K home user. Their decision to concentrate on Enterprise users confirms this.R   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:35:57 GMTO$ From: "GreyCloud" <mist@Cumulus.com>5 Subject: Re: [OT] An interesting view of Linux's cost 8 Message-ID: <NHwic.1912$Wc4.7412@bcandid.telisphere.com>   Paul Sture wrote:: > GreyCloud wrote: >> Hans Vlems wrote: >>= >>> "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> schreef in bericht 7 >>> news:c60svh$6k0a8$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de...o >>>  >>>> John Smith wrote: >>>>L >>>>> http://update.informationweek.com/cgi-bin4/DM/y/egYw0GMMYy0G6p0CUFe0AD >>>>>r
 >>>>> YMMV >>>>>o >>>>H >>>> Interesting given my experience with Linux. Back with SuSE 7.n, theE >>>> networking was not only a pain to configure, but when I added anoH >>>> extra NIC (identical), it wouldn't see both. Solution: get a coupleC >>>> of new el cheapo NICs, wnd they coexisted happily. I was quitecF >>>> happy with that distribution once I'd got it configured properly. >>>>F >>>> I finally upgraded to SuSE 9.0 last year, and that was a mistake.G >>>> On one PC, the graphics came out so tiny they were unreadable, andaD >>>> didn't offer the means to change the resolution. On the PC withB >>>> twin NICs, I couldn't get either to talk, so I was off to buyD >>>> another cheap NIC. On that PC, it would often "lose" both soundF >>>> and randomly start interpreting the keyboard as German instead of >>>> Swiss German. >>>>E >>>> I also found the SuSE 9.0 installation somewhat too dumbed down. B >>>> Whenever I tried to get into "expert mode" it really tried to >>>> dissuade me from doing so.0 >>>>E >>>> OK, I could no doubt have coaxed them both into life eventually, A >>>> but once I'd got OpenOffice running on my Mac, I simply lost  >>>> interest. >>>>
 >>>> YMMV etc  >>>> >>>rE >>> On a similar note: I'd been running RedHat 7.1 quite wel on a PC,nG >>> standard configuration. Even Windows2000 installs without a problemd
 >>> on it.F >>> The Audigy soundcard was not supported but that did not bother me.B >>> RedHat 8 did support the soundcard but messed up the graphics.F >>> RedHat 9 offered proper graphics (KDE) but the soundcard no longer7 >>> worked. After that I gave the diskspace to Windows.o >>>eF >>> Yesterday I upgraded another PC from RedHat 7.2 to 9. KDE lost allA >>> contents in the toolbar, all it shows are cog icons. I've gotg# >>> several books on Linux and needn3 >>> them all, often and not always finding answers.nD >>> Linux is a great operating system if you happen to like building >>> them. Not sure at what7 >>> point in time they should allow users on it though.5 >>>0 >> >>G >> It is not a problem anymore.  Suse's latest version should work veryi; >> well. A lot of people prefer Suse over RedHats versions.c >w > Cough, choke, splutter...' > H > Version 9.0 which I was talking about _is_ the latest version. V9.1 is > due in early May. Seeb >m  J Never had a problem with Suse 9.0.  All of the hardware was recognized andK the installation was fast and easy.  Much simpler than trying to install XP-L without having to reboot a few times with hardware driver CDs that came withL the hardware.  RedHat 7.1 had a problem during boot up... kernel panic.  TheK stupid thing didn't realize that it should have issued a simple "Disk Full":K message to get the user to either partition the hard drive before doing theoE install or providing a secondary hard drive.  Suse will automaticallyIL partition this for you if you have XP on it already.  The downside, and thisJ part is just only what I've heard others saying, is that XP will sometimesJ do a masterboot record rewrite and causing you not to be able to boot intoC Linux if you are sharing a hard drive.  Use Grub instead, they say.a  F > http://www.suse.com/us/private/products/suse_linux/preview/prof.html >tH > for details. It includes a "fully ported 64-bit version for AMD64 andG > Intel Extended Memory 64 Technology", so it should be interesting tom$ > see how the market responds to it. >e  L With Apache included along with Samba, it should be a shoe in for the price.K My only complaint with any of the freeware versions of o/ses is the Gnu gcc < compiler set.  Not enough documentation to get a user going.E I've found no problem using OpenVMS compilers as the documentation isb
 excellent.   >>  It seems that someG >> didn't like redhats' startup scripts and even said they were screwedoE >> pretty bad compared to a BSD implementation.  I never really liked4; >> redhat, but it doesn't mean it won't work on a differenti >> configuration.aG >> Most like to get gentoo linux by downloading and compiling the wholesC >> works. Many claim that compiling for your specific configurations3 >> provides superior speed and a smaller footprint.t >> >> >eF > I tried RedHat 6.0, which I chosemainly because it was advertised asE > having plenty of documentation (at the time, the only Linux books Ir= > could find in the shops tended to concentrate solely on the E > installation of whatever flavour of Linux was on the enclosed CDs).n >t  D A good one to start out with is a Slackware Book by Volkerding (sp).L I found most of the RedHat  versions docs to be lacking... especially when aL program comes up and you click on the help button only to find it is not yet implemented.  A > That documentation was a disappointment, as a large chunk of it G > consisted of a short parqagraph on each and every utility included inx > the distribution.- >o  G This is the weak spot in Linux.  The documentation needs a lot of work.g  G > I got the feeling then, and still have it, that Redhat is more suitedvB > to someone doing a large rollout of similar systems than for the	 > typicalrG > home user. Their decision to concentrate on Enterprise users confirms  > this.6  I Viewing RedHats' site shows their slant towards IT depts. rather than them	 end user. H Suse has very good documentation included with their distros.  Best I've
 ever seen.J I had used Caldera, RedHat, Slackware and Suse and found that Suse was the  most comprehensive of the bunch.L The amd64 version is a bit more expensive but it will depend on the hardwareF prices for the end user to convert over. HP has their amd64 PC out for
 around $1000..   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.227 ************************y would be good, but not absolutely essential.  (By theCC way, I am running 7.3-1 on a DEC 3000/300 LX with 48 MB RAM.  WorkstF fine.  I suppose I will have to get at least 64 to run 7.3-2, or is itB possible that 64 is required to INSTALL 7.3-2 but it will run with less?) a  E Of course,i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    i/    