1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 26 Apr 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 231       Contents:, Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit, Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit, Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit( Re: Disk De-Frag utilities, suggestions?( Re: Finding the operating mode of DE500?> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> RE: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...> Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...4 Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...2 Re: mounting diskette results in MOUNT-F-BADSECSYS& Re: OpenVMS newbie  - AlphaStation 233 Parsing with lexicals  Re: Parsing with lexicals  Re: Parsing with lexicals  Re: Parsing with lexicals  Re: Parsing with lexicals 7 Summary: mounting diskette results in MOUNT-F-BADSECSYS > Re: upgrading (or installing) VMS on a system with no CD drive> Re: upgrading (or installing) VMS on a system with no CD drive> Re: upgrading (or installing) VMS on a system with no CD drive4 Re: VMS 7.3-2, TCPIP 5.4: which to upgrade to first?. Re: what do the letters after the numbers mean  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 05:54:19 -07002 From: williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb)5 Subject: Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit = Message-ID: <bf98c417.0404260454.1a795ac3@posting.google.com>   W "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<2OGdnf1NDKFKQBfdRVn-hw@igs.net>... M > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 2 > news:408A8DDE.B9C11EA7@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > > [snip]+ > > > Yep, been there, saw that first hand.  > > > G > > > However, in this case - after two year $45M very mission critical M > > > project to convert business logic on OpenVMS to Windows (DB was to stay L > > > on VMS) went south big time, we are now being called back in to figureM > > > out how the powers that be can save their careers for making such a bad  > > > mistake. > > K > > I know this is drifting off-topic, but perhaps someone here can educate 	 > > me...  > > H > > When I was young, I was always taught that "It takes a big person toK > > admit a mistake", yet in real life it now seems that admitting to being H > > wrong is virtually a cardinal transgression. People will go to theirK > > deaths, biological or professional, before admitting an error. (Optimal , > > case in point: OpenVMS and advertising.) > > K > > It's not easy going through life in the professional world with an I.Q. G > > equal to my Dad's age when he died (79), but I'm really hoping that J > > someone can provide a lucid explanation of this phenomenon. I'd really > > like to understand it. > > L > > > Sometimes, I use the analogy that it is like talking to teenagers i.e.M > > > no matter how hard you try to give them the benefit of your experience, K > > > there are some times where they refuse to listen and you just have to % > > > let them try it for themselves.  > > H > > Another phenomenon that escapes me. Anything "old" is valueless, and9 > > even the "new" loses value with astonishing rapidity.  > > K > > Maybe this is why I've become such a "computer nerd". The machines are,  > > at least, comprehensible.  >  >  > Glib answer follows: > J > Credit the US legal system. Any admission of any fault in one's logic inM > making a decision in the first place (assumptions, rationales, data backing J > the decision, etc...), or implementation errors (omissions, commissions,N > logic errors, incomplete analysis, etc...) has, over the years, come to meanM > one thing and one thing only.....blame somebody else and sue their ass off.  > I > This too is another great American export, along with quarterly earning D > report-itis, both of which seem to be becoming more widely adopted > throughout the world.  > ? The assault on the concept of personal responsibility for one's ; actions is merely one facet of the war on individualism and  self-reliance.  F The concept of being responsible for one's actions has been castigatedD for some time now because it is in direct conflict with the concepts) of "group rights" and "collective guilt".   C Individual responsibility also interferes with the ability to blame " others for one's own shortcomings.  D And, although I agree with your statement with respect to the myopia ofF both shareholders and analysts, I can't completely agree about the the4 legal morass being completely a U.S.-based problem:   D I've read that the Italian legal system makes the one in the US look like child's play.  D There are apocryphal tales of lawsuits which have endured beyond theC temporal existence of not only the plaintiff and the defendant, but D also the judge and attorneys for both sides who were in place at the beginning of the trial.   H > Often what is required in those cases is a lesson from feudal JapaneseJ > society - ritual seppuku by those responsible. This allows for those not? > responsible the possibility of a 'clean slate' to start anew.   9 While I am a strong believer in the concept of individual , responsiblity for one's actions, I must ask:  * Isn't the term "ritual seppuku" redundant?  @ (And don't feel compelled to fall on your sword because of this)   :^)    WWWebb   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:01:48 -07002 From: williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb)5 Subject: Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit = Message-ID: <bf98c417.0404260601.3889e93d@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<4089C3CD.69D75CF9@teksavvy.com>...  > Jack Peacock wrote: L > > How does changing an OS fix a lack of professionalism and skills?  GivenL > > that new workers have no exposure to VMS concepts or operations it would > > only make matters worse.   >  > O > I was once replaced by a windows weenie who was fresh out of school and sweet O > talked the boss into think he could do everything on a PC at much lower cost.  > M > The problem is that the "point and click" crowd along with gate,s marketing J > machine and shrink wrapped software has made "anyone" an expert, and theN > problem is that the bosses don't have the skills to judge the REAL IT skillsM > of an applicant and they hire all sorts of windows weenies instead of older  > experienced people.  > B > When boss asks "how long will X take and how much will it cost ? > N > Windows Weenie:s answer: 	Oh ! that si simple, I can just install SQL ServerO > from microsoft and in a few hours, all will be setup. It will cost you just a  > few hundfred bucks.  > L > Experienced IT guy: You'll need a serious database such as Oracle. You,kllN > need to spend time designing tye database and software, and this will take aM > few months and cost you at least $100,000.00. He'll also saythat Windows is O > not the right platfor for such a project. (going against some corporate edict  > to go windows only). >  > ) > So, guess which of the two gets hired ?  > M > The experienced IT guys' project would have costed less and taken less time O > that the MS project, but the sales pitch from the windows weenie was too good O > to pass up, and the hiring person had no way to judge that the windows weenie 5 > was not experiencec enough to drive such a project.   C Your scenario violates the consultant comparison rule-of-thumb, the ' origins of which are lost in antiquity:   D "When choosing between consultants, always pick the one who says theA project will cost the most and take the longest amount of time to 	 complete.   E The reason:  his estimates are likely to be closest to actual results  than any of the others."   WWWebb   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 11:35:46 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)5 Subject: Re: Billions wasted due to IT skills deficit 3 Message-ID: <KESJAoCjNX6h@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4089C45B.4FDEADE6@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Jack Peacock wrote: E >> How does changing an OS fix a lack of professionalism and skills?   > H > Forces the employer to hire real IT professionals, not just anyone whoG > pretends to be a Widnows expert because he know how to run solitaire.   D I have an official certificate on my wall that reads MCSE Certified.D In fine print it says "Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expert".   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 09:12:20 -0700, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)1 Subject: Re: Disk De-Frag utilities, suggestions? = Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0404260812.3e2a898c@posting.google.com>   a brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote in message news:<04042312220558@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>... O > I am about to endeaver back into the world of disk de-fragmenation utilities. N > Anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for products or who to avoid? >  Do you want to defragment I  - so that you have contiguous available disk space for large data files? $  - targeted specific RMS data files?  4 On the OpenVMS freeware CD-ROM is Disk File Utility.; It can display a summary report of the status of each disk. 4 It can defragment a targeted specific RMS data file.  = I have historically used both Raxco and Executive's products.   ' Jim Strehlow, Data911, Alameda, CA, USA    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:26:27 +0300 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>1 Subject: Re: Finding the operating mode of DE500? & Message-ID: <408CFFF3.47BCFC4C@hp.com>    Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279) wrote: >  > Hello,N >   I have a DE-500 Ethernet card on a remote system (so console access is notI > trivial) and I need to know in which mode the card is currently working = > (10/100, Half or full duplex). Is there a way I can see it?  > ; >                                         Thanks, __Yehavi: / Is this what you mean? (Example from VMS 7.3-1) 	 $mc lancp  LANCP> sho dev /char   Device Characteristics EWA0:'                   Value  Characteristic '                   -----  -------------- +                    1500  Device buffer size (                  Normal  Controller mode/                External  Internal loopback mode -       00-00-F8-23-77-2C  Hardware LAN address /                          Multicast address list -                 CSMA/CD  Communication medium ,       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address0                     128  Minimum receive buffers0                     256  Maximum receive buffers+                      No  Full duplex enable 0                      No  Full duplex operational(             TwistedPair  Line media type*                      10  Line speed (mbps) LANCP> exit    HTH, Mike   --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:27:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 3 Message-ID: <MY$vlFLGaR95@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <c6c39b$2qa$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:  > H > Indeed.  However, Bob was claiming that VMS could not be attacked withH > viruses.  A virus is not a worm.  I do not know of any general purposeN > operating system that cannot be attacked with viruses and Trojan horses.  IfE > Bob had written that VMS could not be attacked with worms, then his 3 > statement would have been rash but not ridicules.   F    I don't see how you can make that claim since VMS has been attacked    by worms.  E    Of course the very next release of VMS made it harder to carry out D    the bad practices that the WANK worm exploited, but it did happenH    and it is possible to set up a brand new 7.3-2 system with those same    foolish practices.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:28:27 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 3 Message-ID: <iDXjNXx+Qq8c@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <c6c4kd$4gu$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:  > F > No, it assumes that enough god people will check the code and report> > security errors.  Most god people will report security bugs.  6    Many ordinary mortals will report them ,too.    8-)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:47:53 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 3 Message-ID: <$qWOMWqgGkCB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <878ygl44o5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > G >>    Guess again.  I've switched between DCL, MCR, and the POSIX shell B >>    without needing any privileges or asking any system manager.= >>    Only the login CLI is controlled by the system manager.  > B > Look up the /cli switch on entering your username. Unless the SM> > sets the NOCLI flag in your SYSUAF. Loging ion with /cli=edt5 > was an old favorite system crasher at one stage. :)  >   A    Yep, missed that.  The user can't change the default login CLI D    set by the system manager, but usually can override it with /cli.2    Restricted and captive accounts can't use /cli.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:50:14 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 0 Message-ID: <c6j0ip$1qa$4@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote: S > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  >  > < >>Answer the question, which version of Solaris did you use. >  > : >>2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.5.1, 2.6, 7, 8, 9 or 10. >  >  > You miss spelt SunOS...  >     ( No that would be SunOS 5.0, 5.1, 5.2 etc   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:53:30 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 0 Message-ID: <c6j0ou$26p$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:  > In article <c6bhja$lhh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > !Bob Koehler wrote:  > !> In article <c6auc5$f6b$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  > !>   > !>  F > !>>So the next question is which UNIX oses and what versions of them? > !>>have you used, you say that you have used Solaris and make E > !>>comparisons between Solaris and OpenVMS based on your experience C > !>>so which version are you refering to, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 3 > !>>2.5, 2.5.1, 2.6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Choose a number.  > !>   > !>   > ! = > !Answer the question, which version of Solaris did you use.  > < > "If you don't answer the question, we'll have to gag you!" >    Why does Bob need a gag ?    > "What question?" >   * Which version of Solaris did he last use ?  
 > "Gag him!!"  >   4 Wierd, you seem to want to gag people and Fred keeps4 wanting to feel my pain, perhaps you two should meet up.     M > We now return you to your regulalrly scheduled troll-baiting and flaming...  > !snip! >   ) Umm what is the subject of this thread ??    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:35:29 +0200 * From: "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com>G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... , Message-ID: <c6j6nk$8sc$1@news.cybercity.dk>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:MY$vlFLGaR95@eisner.encompasserve.org... ? > In article <c6c39b$2qa$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad"  <nospam@nospam.com> writes:  > > J > > Indeed.  However, Bob was claiming that VMS could not be attacked withJ > > viruses.  A virus is not a worm.  I do not know of any general purposeL > > operating system that cannot be attacked with viruses and Trojan horses. IfG > > Bob had written that VMS could not be attacked with worms, then his 5 > > statement would have been rash but not ridicules.  > H >    I don't see how you can make that claim since VMS has been attacked >    by worms.  L Let us begin with assuming that someone wants to attack VMS systems.  Let usI assume that these systems are set up with normal user accounts.  Further, G the network is set up in such a way that there is no documented method, L where a person who is not user on the system can transfer code to any of theG systems and then execute it.  The person that wants to attack these VMS G systems could easily write a virus or a Trojan horse.  His only problem L would be to get someone to execute the virus or Trojan horse on at least oneF of the systems.  Thus VMS is as easy to attack with viruses and TrojanH horses as any other general purpose systems.  You need virus scanners orJ something like Microsoft's Palladium to protect your self from viruses andF Trojan horses.  Thus VMS is in a way easier to attack with viruses andL Trojan horses than Windows because there are no virus scanners for VMS.  TheL viruses are on Windows because they can be implemented as macros in Word andJ Excel documents, because so many people use illegally copied programs, and( because Windows is cheap and widespread.  H You need to find a security bug in order to successfully attack VMS withF worms.  It will be difficult to find bugs that allow for more than DOSL attacks because of how the networking packages are designed with the bulk ofL the code executing in user mode.  I hope the networking packages are writtenH such that privileges are only enabled when needed.  On Alphas you cannotC exploit buffer overflows to execute code transferred in the buffer. K However, there are always bugs in code, and it is rash to assume that there G are not security related bugs in the networking packages for VMS.  This L makes it rash to assume that VMS systems cannot be attacked from the networkJ using, a.go., worms.  However, finding the bugs will most likely take lots= of time, and it is not something you could do in a few hours.    Karsten Nyblad ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:33:31 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> G Subject: RE: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB313C62@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Karsten Nyblad [mailto:nospam@nospam.com]=20 > Sent: April 26, 2004 10:35 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher=20  > for Dave ... >=20  	 [snip ..]   7 > Thus VMS is as easy to attack with viruses and Trojan A > horses as any other general purpose systems.  You need virus=20 
 > scanners or > > something like Microsoft's Palladium to protect your self=20 > from viruses andH > Trojan horses.  Thus VMS is in a way easier to attack with viruses and: > Trojan horses than Windows because there are no virus=20 > scanners for VMS.  The> > viruses are on Windows because they can be implemented as=20 > macros in Word andA > Excel documents, because so many people use illegally copied=20  > programs, and * > because Windows is cheap and widespread. >=20  	 [snip ..]    > Karsten Nyblad! > ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com  >=20 >=20  H Just to clarify that Sophos is available for running on OpenVMS, but theH bottom line is that do any damage on a system one typically needs to get elevated priv's.=20   E With OpenVMS, because of its security architecture, this is extremely : difficult to do - not impossible, but extremely difficult.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:15:26 GMT 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... / Message-ID: <Osbjc.41981$_L6.2559430@attbi_s53>    Bob Koehler wrote:  [ > In article <c6c39b$2qa$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:   H >>Indeed.  However, Bob was claiming that VMS could not be attacked withH >>viruses.  A virus is not a worm.  I do not know of any general purposeN >>operating system that cannot be attacked with viruses and Trojan horses.  IfE >>Bob had written that VMS could not be attacked with worms, then his 3 >>statement would have been rash but not ridicules.   H >    I don't see how you can make that claim since VMS has been attacked >    by worms.    E There is a very good reason that VMS is not attacked by worms, and it , doesn't have at all to do with VMS security.  H I remember from about ten years ago hearing that there were more attacksE on Solaris systems than SunOS systems, though there were likely many  E more holes known in SunOS.   It has to do with the number of machines " out there running a particular OS.  E I believe that Windows and Solaris are still the popular web servers, C and so are favorites for worm attacks.   The statistics are against C almost every other OS.  Unless VMS becomes popular as a web server, 0 there isn't much reason for worm writers to try.  : This reminds me of the story about being chased by a bear.9 You don't have to run faster than the bear, you only need * to run faster than the person next to you.   -- glen    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 12:20:49 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) G Subject: Re: How to turn linux into VMS - memory refresher for Dave ... 3 Message-ID: <VBWe7VI7LyZs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <c6j6nk$8sc$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes:   7 > Thus VMS is as easy to attack with viruses and Trojan . > horses as any other general purpose systems.  @    I have to disagree with you on that.  Since no virus for VMS C    has ever been released to the wild, you'ld first have to find or <    create one, then find a security hole to poke it through.  C    On Windows security experts claim there are 120000 or more known F    virus, of which most virus scanners protect against 50000 to 75000.  D    It should be much easier to just go out and find one of the 45000F    or more unblocked viruses for Windows than to write one of your own    for VMS.   G    But you do bring up a fairly important point:  a lot of the security E    hole exploited on Windows are in the MS applications which execute D    code sent via email.  Since MS applications don't run on VMS that>    removes a huge collection of vectors for introducing virii.  F    Unfortunatly IP stacks have a bad history of behaving like MS apps.E    This has been exacerbated on UNIX by collections of UNIX apps that     fell down the same hole.   C    Certainly one could write VMS apps that had the same issues, but G    interestingly enough VMS apps rarely do.  Could this be because it's +    so easy to get things done right on VMS?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:14:55 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... 9 Message-ID: <c6inf0$can65$1@ID-132135.news.uni-berlin.de>    Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Karsten Nyblad wrote:    <snip>   > D >>Please note  that many of the problems on the Windows platform are@ >>due to the applications and because Microsoft does not use theF >>security features of the operating system.  It is beyond me how theyG >>could get the idea of letting E-mail clients execute code embedded in E >>E-mails automatically and without the user doing anything.  Putting F >>macro code in Word and Excel files has also proved a bad idea.  I doG >>not understand why normal users have Administrator rights by default. F >>Unfortunately, you can be sure that if you change the default setup,F >>then some installations will fail, and you will not have a clue why. >  > J > I can but agree on your points in this paragraph.  I suspect BillG mightL > even agree, given the current state of affairs, though I have seen nothing% > to suggest this in print or action.  >   E A real example of the problems in this area cropped up when we had a  I rollout of thousands of PCs a few years ago. The majority of users would  ? not have administrator rights, and under the contract with the  H suppliers/maintainers, granting a user administration rights cost a lot  more, for obvious reasons.  H The contract bidding process was highly competitive (Compaq, HP and IBM 5 IIRC), the real prize being the maintenance contract.   I The rollout and subsequent support were of a high standard (Compaq won),   so most of us were happy.   H Then it came out that Windows developers needed administrator rights to H do debugging, and that hadn't been catered for in the contract. I don't 5 know the details, that's just how the story came out.   ( Ouch, that no doubt cost a pretty penny!  B >>Thus even people knowing better run Windows without changing theG >>default setup.  And then Microsoft does not use all the nice features  >>for file protection. >> > med venlig hilsen  > Dr. Dweeb  >  --   Mit freundlich Gruessen   
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 06:45:10 -0700- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) = Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... = Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0404260545.24c14027@posting.google.com>    "Karsten Nyblad" wrote: I > You have been trying to put down Unix for having weak security.  But it M > seems to me that security on VMS and, e.g., Solaris develop in the same way K > with similar features added to both platforms.  Both platforms have added M > new features for authentication and authorization as the environment became > > more hostile and as the features were needed for networking.  @ Both UNIX and OpenVMS have potential exploits.  In addition, theC biggest factor in having a secure environment is the competency and F diligence of the administrator, no matter what the platform.  However,C there are aspects of OpenVMS's architecture that provide additional + safety other operating systems do not have.    JMOD   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:24:38 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... ) Message-ID: <c6j636$oe6$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   Z In article <c6fmb1$1i56$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Karsten Nyblad" <nospam@nospam.com> writes: > 6 >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message7 >news:d7791aa1.0404241840.6cb5c69@posting.google.com...  >>K >The security of VMS is also due to the low number of juvenile users on the K >platform.  The programmers on VMS have carriers and mortgages, and they do G >not want to get fired with no references and perhaps being send to the ' >slammer and getting a criminal record.   O Do 25000+  University students with accounts at anyone time since at least 1989 8 (when I joined the University) count as juvenile users ?N Had tons of hacks into our Unix systems not a single one into our VMS systems.J Up until about 3 years ago they were also totally exposed on the Internet.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     > J >Please note  that many of the problems on the Windows platform are due toM >the applications and because Microsoft does not use the security features of F >the operating system.  It is beyond me how they could get the idea ofJ >letting E-mail clients execute code embedded in E-mails automatically andM >without the user doing anything.  Putting macro code in Word and Excel files G >has also proved a bad idea.  I do not understand why normal users have M >Administrator rights by default.  Unfortunately, you can be sure that if you J >change the default setup, then some installations will fail, and you willJ >not have a clue why.  Thus even people knowing better run Windows withoutJ >changing the default setup.  And then Microsoft does not use all the nice >features for file protection. >  >Karsten Nyblad   >ibpit1202 at sneakemail dot com >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:16:03 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... 0 Message-ID: <c6j5jn$3vp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:n > In article <c66af7$rjp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> writes: > ; >>Of course not but since we are talking about implimenting / >>new systems its interesting but not relevant.  >  > A >    Who's talking about implementing new systems?  I was talking C >    about VMS built-in capabilities vs. add on QFS's capabilities.  >    Does is make any difference ?   : Sun engineers, supplies and supports QFS and the fact that> it isn't bundled with Solaris is irrelevant to this discussion< because it is an option and it does what the previous poster5 origionally claimed wasn't possible on a UNIX system.   > Following you argument to its logical conclusion you could not9 connect OpenVMS to an IP network prior to the bundling of ; TCP/IP with OpenVMS by Compaq because it wasn't part of the / OS, clearly BS just like your line of argument.   = And lets be clear you are only folloing this line of argument ; because all your other lines of defense have been breached.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:42:45 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ... 0 Message-ID: <c6j04o$1qa$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c6asdg$e9l$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:  >>t >>>Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<c6660p$q7g$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>  >>> A >>>>Nor does OpenVMS have the basic plumbing that people require, : >>>>support Palms etc vi USB, support for USB flash cards,< >>>>wireless, smart card authentication the list goes on and >>>>on.  >>>> >>>>Regards  >>>>Andrew Harrison  >>>  >>> ; >>>doesn't support palms?  you better tell all of our sites ; >>>that are using pdas that ... we upload and download from 3 >>>and to our vms based accounting system daily ...  >>7 >>Can you connect something like a Tungsten T which has 7 >>a USB cradle with an OpenVMS system and sync to it ??  >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >  > @ > no, but I can connect with good old ethernet and ftp to it ...  : Now that just about tops it Bob, thanks for the insight on* how you sync your PDA to your OpenVMS box.  = I say thanks because you just proved my point so conclusively ( that its hardly worth going any further.  9 And the state of the art for syncronisation on OpenVMS is ( wait for it, wild cheering, FTP, groans.   Regardsu Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:12:35 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>r= Subject: Re: Linux on its way out - unless you are a geek ...E0 Message-ID: <c6j1sn$2k0$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Svensson wrote:o > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c63h2u$s18$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...i >  >>David Svensson wrote:e >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<c60gha$pql$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>>o >>>t >>>>David Svensson wrote:  >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>J >>>>>HP is selling and supporting Linux servers, that is a very good thingK >>>>>for HP _and_ Linux. IBM has also done lots of good thing for Linux and-K >>>>>Sun has done good things for OpenSource and are beginning to make good. >>>>>things for Linux. >>>>A >>>>Ask yourself this, what would be the impact on the OpenSourcer? >>>>community if HP all its products, all its engineers and all.% >>>>its IP simply vanished tommorow ?  >>>>> >>>>The answer is basically none, Dell, IBM, Fujitsu etc would5 >>>>quickly fill the hole left in the platform marketc >>>  >>>aB >>>Almost the same could be said for all companies, including Sun. >>>l >>3 >>Ahh but that would be where you would be entirelye >>wrong. >>> >>If Sun were to vanish tommorow along with all its developers> >>the following key OpenSource programs and programs important9 >>to the OpenSource community would be severely impacted.s >>9 >>OpenOffice, Sun is doing the majority of the OpenOfficee >>development. >> >>Java.e >> >>Gnomeh >>	 >>OpenSSL  >> >>And a whole host more. >  > > > Yes, Sun would have more impact, but no one is irreplacable.2 > Good things would be picked up by other parties. > , After a hiatus which would be very damaging.  , And who would pick up the lets use published API's role shall we role.    HP ? IBM ? Dell ?o > < >>>>So in reality OpenSource is much more important to HP as? >>>>a market than HP is to OpenSource and thats because despite>< >>>>the Linux retoric HP have done virtually nothing of note= >>>>for the Linux community except to provide platforms whiche( >>>>HP do because it generates revenues. >>>o >>>,G >>>Yes, and that has been good for the adoption of Linux, which is good G >>>for Linux. Sun on the other hand has a history of talking down LinuxnG >>>(that is changing now) and I don't think that has been good, altough 4 >>>the impact has probably been very low, for Linux. >>B >>You have made the classic mistake of mixing retoric with action. >> >  > B > That is bullshit (to use some of your famous words), it is not aG > mistake, it is also about real world. The talking down was real! When D > I asked Sun sales and wanted to buy a Linux server some years backH > they laughed. This was also the reality even in 2003!, I haven't asked@ > in 2004. As far as I see retoric and action were very aligned. >   ? You seem to be resolutely intent on missing the point entirely.t  > Selling Linux and selling platforms that run Linux is only one> aspect of supporting OpenSource. Some people in the OpenSource; community would argue that the former is theft anyway while 9 the latter in a highly commoditised market is of marginal  value.  @ You also support the OpenSource community by providing them with= access to IP that they would otherwise have to write, reverseu
 engineer etc.   @ Supporting the OpenSource community is also about providing them: comprehensive, documented API's so that they don't have to  reverse engineer interfaces etc.  @ So while Sun hasn't sold Linux or until the aquisition of Cobalt? sold Linux hardware we have do the last two and these have beenm> of immesurably more value to the OpenSource community than the> first two which you seem to think are of paramount importance.  5 As I said earlier you have confused words with deeds.    regardsg Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:43:11 GMT.# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)o; Subject: Re: mounting diskette results in MOUNT-F-BADSECSYS)/ Message-ID: <PSbjc.383$d51.97@news.cpqcorp.net>n  r In article <bf98c417.0404230754.7410e85d@posting.google.com>, williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb) writes:P :Trying to mount a diskette on an AlphaStation 200 running  OpenVMS 7.3 gets me:< :%MOUNT-F-BADSECSYS, failed to access or create SECURITY.SYS$ :-SYSTEM-F-DRVERR, fatal drive error :It mounted fine earlier today.   C   If the same command was successfully used recently and within thefB   same configuration, I might guess that the drive or (rather moreA   likely) the storage medium is failing, or (less likely) becauseuB   the disk is full.  The fatal drive error clearly implies this is   a medium or a drive problem.  @ :This happens regardless of whether I try to mount it /SYSTEM or
 :/OVER=ID.E :Am I SOL, or is there a trick I don't know about to get around this?   D   As others have stated, get your data off the disk, and discard theC   disk.  Reinitializing a flakey floppy is possible, but is clearly E   not worth the time or the effort involved, nor the extra oxide thats&   would be smeared across the head(s).     From HELP/MESSAGE BADSECSYS:  4  BADSECSYS,  failed to create or access SECURITY.SYS  $   Facility:     MOUNT, Mount Utility  D   Explanation:  The Mount utility was unable to create and write theK                 SECURITY.SYS file on a volume that was initialized prior tosH                 OpenVMS Version 6.0, usually because the device is full.  1   User Action:  Try any of the following actions:n  @                 o Mount the device using the /NOWRITE qualifier.  J                 o Mount the device with /OVERRIDE=SECURITY if the securityE                   policy of the system permits this. Once the disk isbK                   mounted, free up approximately 10 blocks on the disk, and L                   then remount the disk without using the /OVERRIDE=SECURITY                   qualifier.  K                 o Mount the device on a version of OpenVMS prior to VersionpK                   6.0 and free up about 10 blocks on the disk. Then remount >                   the disk on the later version of the system.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:45:12 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a/ Subject: Re: OpenVMS newbie  - AlphaStation 233t3 Message-ID: <nHWyiTFZkR06@eisner.encompasserve.org>L  n In article <408a2cd1$0$21804$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, "Berdt van der Lingen" <berdt@n0spam-xs4all.nl> writes:	 > Hi all,n > J > I'm a OpenVMS beginner and I want to learn the OpenVMS operating system.J > Is a AlphaStation 233 with 64 mb ram and a 2 gb SCSI disk suitable for a	 > newbie?i > Should I buy more ram?  D    I would buy more RAM, but what you have will work if you can deal    with the performance impact.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:11:48 GMTb2 From: "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> Subject: Parsing with lexicalsC Message-ID: <U76jc.11533$gH6.8972@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>a   Hi all-g   I am not permitted to put PERL& on my production system, and I need to. parse the output from SHOW QUEUE MY$QUEUE /ALL?  then search for the line containing my job name "DAILY BACKUP"s and grab the entry number.    I can then do a delete/entry=123+ The goal here is to put delete/entry=123 inh a captive menu.a  & Can this be parsed in DLC? Examples if	 possible.    Thanks in advance-   Bill   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 13:22:03 +0200- From: huber@nospammppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)a" Subject: Re: Parsing with lexicals+ Message-ID: <WwU3VcHzsUjc@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>e  x In article <U76jc.11533$gH6.8972@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> writes:  > I am not permitted to put PERL( > on my production system, and I need to0 > parse the output from SHOW QUEUE MY$QUEUE /ALLA >  then search for the line containing my job name "DAILY BACKUP"u > and grab the entry number. > " > I can then do a delete/entry=123- > The goal here is to put delete/entry=123 inc > a captive menu.E  7  (w)get http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/util/com/findjob.comi6     and http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/util/com/abojob.com9  (the former is also on dcl.openvms.org, but currepted byt   my pasying :-()   ;  findjob puts the entry number in a symbol, and you can do W  whatever with the entry.o5  abojob lets You cancel a job by queue/jobname/user .a  o -- w>    Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Muenchen   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:53:41 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)a" Subject: Re: Parsing with lexicals- Message-ID: <Fv8jc.344$bS.9@news.cpqcorp.net>g  D In article <U76jc.11533$gH6.8972@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, 4 "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> writes:< >...I need to parse the output from SHOW QUEUE MY$QUEUE /ALL@ > then search for the line containing my job name "DAILY BACKUP" >and grab the entry number.d >o .. >Can this be parsed in DLC?   C Yes, but -- parsing output from SHOW and similar commands is not a eB good idea.  A future version of OpenVMS could change the output of> the displayed information in a way that would break your code.> It is much beter to use a supported interface -- in this case,8 you should be able to use the lexical function F$GETQUI.   -- iJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:14:17 -07007 From: Z <z@no.spam>a" Subject: Re: Parsing with lexicals0 Message-ID: <108q69kc7tibqb2@corp.supernews.com>   William Hymen wrote:  > I am not permitted to put PERL( > on my production system, and I need to0 > parse the output from SHOW QUEUE MY$QUEUE /ALLA >  then search for the line containing my job name "DAILY BACKUP"  > and grab the entry number.  6 Instead of parsing the text from SHOW QUEUE, you could: use the f$getqui lexical function to get the entry number.    " > I can then do a delete/entry=123- > The goal here is to put delete/entry=123 in  > a captive menu.c > ( > Can this be parsed in DLC? Examples if > possible.    An example:t  4 In your captive menu, there could be an option, say, "Delete DAILY BACKUP job"   ) And the code that would be executed would  1. Get the entry # 2. Delete the entry #u   It can all be done in DCL.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:44:04 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org" Subject: Re: Parsing with lexicals3 Message-ID: <bZA5hyyNWebl@eisner.encompasserve.org>F  x In article <U76jc.11533$gH6.8972@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> writes:	 > Hi all-e >   > I am not permitted to put PERL( > on my production system, and I need to0 > parse the output from SHOW QUEUE MY$QUEUE /ALLA >  then search for the line containing my job name "DAILY BACKUP"e > and grab the entry number. > " > I can then do a delete/entry=123- > The goal here is to put delete/entry=123 in0 > a captive menu.r  ( I'd be looking to use F$GETQUI for this.  G $       temp = f$getqui ( "" )                          ! Clear contextOD $       temp = f$getqui ( "DISPLAY_QUEUE",, "MY$QUEUE", "WILDCARD" ) $ loop:+M $       noaccess = F$GETQUI ( "DISPLAY_JOB", "JOB_INACCESSIBLE",,"ALL_JOBS" ) R $       if noaccess .eqs. "" then goto error_exit       ! Didn't find matching jobO $       if noaccess then goto loop                      ! No rights to this job  $nK $       job_name = F$GETQUI ( "DISPLAY_JOB", "JOB_NAME",,"FREEZE_CONTEXT" )i7 $       if job_name .nes. "DAILY_BACKUP" then goto loop. $eS $       entry_number = F$GETQUI ( "DISPLAY_JOB", "ENTRY_NUMBER",,"FREEZE_CONTEXT" ) 0 $       write sys$output "Entry: ", entry_numberG $       temp = f$getqui ( "" )                          ! Clear context  $       exit $m
 $ error_exit: - $       write sys$output "Failed to find job" G $       temp = f$getqui ( "" )                          ! Clear contextt $       exit    C F$GETQUI is hard to get right.  It tends to be picky.  I tested thetF above and it worked for me.  Key points that caught me while debugging this:r  D You need the "WILDCARD" flag on the "DISPLAY_QUEUE" call in order toF get F$GETQUI to create the wildcard context so that you can proceed toC look at jobs within the queue.  By default, it would have torn down 2 the context without waiting for a subsequent call.  F You need "FREEZE_CONTEXT" on every call after the first one that looksF at a particular job.  That keeps you from advancing to the next job in
 the queue.  F A null string is returned when there are no more jobs (or, in general,( no more of whatever you're looking for).  G You can clear the current queue wildcard context by using F$GETQUI("").cE This is not always neccessary, but it's a nice touch and a good habitrE to get into.  I try to clear it at the top of my code as self-defense86 and at the bottom to clean things up for the next guy.  0 $ HELP LEXICAL F$GETQUI Examples  is your friend    4 MAJOR RESTRICTION: (but one that doesn't affect you)  A There is only one queue context per process.  Every queue-related@D command uses it.  If you use F$GETQUI in a wildcard loop and you tryE to do any queue operations within that loop, you'll destroy the queuen" context and make a hash of things.  A That means that you can't do $ SHOW QUEUE, $ SHOW ENTRY, $ PRINT,nB $ SUBMIT, $ DELETE /ENTRY, $ INIT /QUEUE, $ STOP /QUEUE, etc whileA a F$GETQUI wildcard context remains active.  (At least not if youy! want to keep the context active).c  @ For your application where all you want to do is to discover theG job entry number and then do the queue manipulation later, you're fine.t> By the time the user gets around to choosing the menu item for> $ DELETE /ENTRY=123, the F$GETQUI queue context is irrelevant.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:23:59 -07002 From: williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb)@ Subject: Summary: mounting diskette results in MOUNT-F-BADSECSYS< Message-ID: <bf98c417.0404260623.7ee5bf8@posting.google.com>  w williamwebb@openvms-rocks.com (William Webb) wrote in message news:<bf98c417.0404230754.7410e85d@posting.google.com>...pH > Trying to mount a diskette on an AlphaStation 200 running  OpenVMS 7.3 > 
 > gets me: > = > %MOUNT-F-BADSECSYS, failed to access or create SECURITY.SYS % > -SYSTEM-F-DRVERR, fatal drive error2 >   > It mounted fine earlier today. > A > This happens regardless of whether I try to mount it /SYSTEM or5 > /OVER=ID.e > F > Am I SOL, or is there a trick I don't know about to get around this? >  > TIA  >  > WWWebb   Thanks for the suggestions.U  = The diskette wasn't anywhere close to being full, it was just: in the process of going bad.  E I was able to mount /OVER=SECURITY and copy off most of the contents;u  @ (As soon as I saw that suggestion I wanted to slap myself in the1 forehead with the palm of my hand and say "Duh!")n  @ Trying to mount it foreign and do a BACKUP/PHYSICAL resulted in % fatal drive errors so I gave that up.6   WWWebb   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:50:40 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)eG Subject: Re: upgrading (or installing) VMS on a system with no CD drives3 Message-ID: <7o7vi4dxGJ$v@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  w In article <c6esqh$pdb$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:2  G > Could one do the installation or upgrade on another system?  Suppose  K > node B needs a VMS upgrade.  Could I take the system disk out of node B,  J > put it in node A (which has a CD drive), do the upgrade there, then put  > it back in node B?  =    Yes, you can do this and then fixup any differences later.t7    Or, you can temporarily cluster the two systems, useoD    cluster_config.com to make a copy of the system disk from A to B,D    and then fixup things, including breaking the cluster if desired.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:52:04 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-G Subject: Re: upgrading (or installing) VMS on a system with no CD driveK3 Message-ID: <iCyW1BoDmf10@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  R In article <1040425214836.32308A@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > E > I've been thinking about the alternatives for installing V8.2 on myrG > microVAX (without CD drive) at home, when it is released.  (CurrentlycE > V7.3, which was on TK50, IIRC, but the cover letter said it was thec- > last version that would be issued on TK50.)a >   D    You can copy the save sets from CD to tape.  Pay attention to the(    order if you want to speed things up.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:39:59 GMTn3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)bG Subject: Re: upgrading (or installing) VMS on a system with no CD driven/ Message-ID: <Pi8jc.342$bS.220@news.cpqcorp.net>m  E In article <c6esqh$pdb$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de n2 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  > I am assuming OpenVMS Apha.  If this is an OpenVMS VAX system,+ please say so -- the answers are DIFFERENT!     F >Suppose one wants to upgrade (or install) VMS on a system with no CD   > This is not a supported environment.  Add a CD to your system.  ; > ...[could one] copy the CD to a hard disk, then use that y >in place of the CD. ..a   Yes, this will work.  > >Could one do the installation or upgrade on another system?     Yes, this will work too.  F >                    If the upgrade were only a matter of copying new E >files to the system disk, then there would be no problem.  What I'm rH >worried about, however, are differences between node A and node B: for ? >example, the ethernet device might have a different name, the hF >configuration (amount of RAM etc) might be different hence confusing - >AUTOGEN if it is run during the upgrade etc.u  D AUTOGEN is only run when the newly installed/upgraded system disk isB first booted after  the installation/upgrade.  Reeturn the disk toE the node where it will be used BEFORE you first boot it and this willt not be an issue.   >MI >Since essentially all my disks are shadow sets, my long-term plan is to DJ >have one "master node" per architecture whose system disk I maintain.  I J >can then propagate upgrades to other systems by breaking a shadow set on J >the master node, removing a member and using that as a new shadow master  >on the other nodes.    J This is not supported and has various issues that you have not considered.  I >Even if one knew that all the node-specific stuff were in SYS$SPECIFIC, b  
 It isn't.   C >even copying it to somewhere else before the shadow copy and then eH >copying it back wouldn't solve all problems, if the upgrade adds files  >to SYS$SPECIFIC.m >   >Has anyone solved this problem?  % What problem are you trying to solve?u> If you want to be able to upgrade multiple nodes in less time,? then copying the kit from CD and booting the CD to upgrade your0F target system disk(s) will save significant time.  Once the "kit disk"@ is booted, you could siple "change target disks" and upgrade one= system after another -- no need to re-boot the kit each time.>  E Of course this is not "automated".  Some one has to change the targeto@ system disks and respond the the upgrade/installation dialog for
 each disk.   -- cJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 08:10:55 -0700. From: alexdaniels@themail.co.uk (Alex Daniels)= Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-2, TCPIP 5.4: which to upgrade to first?h= Message-ID: <9f7f13a8.0404260710.40be11cb@posting.google.com>r  g moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote in message news:<c6hc0p$ee2$2@pcls4.std.com>...oT > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > H > >I am at VMS 7.3-1 and TCPIP 5.3.  I plan to upgrade to VMS 7.3-2 and I > >TCPIP 5.4.  Normally, I upgrade the OS first, then layered products.  sK > >Does it really make any difference?  Any advantages to doing one first,   > >or the other first? > J > TCPIP V5.4 is on the VMS 7.3-2 CD, so if you upgrade by booting from theL > CD or a copy, it'll ask you if you want to upgrade TCPIP at the same time.K > Same for a couple of other products, such as Motif and DECnet (IV and V).a  C Also if you want to use 5.4 with the Performance Kernel (which willoF become default in 5.5 anyway) you will need 7.3-2. 5.4 without it runs< on 7.3-1 though. Makes a big difference on loaded SMP boxes.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2004 07:34:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)b7 Subject: Re: what do the letters after the numbers mean 3 Message-ID: <IFLh0md09CvH@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  w In article <c6doa5$r68$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:eI > What do the letters after the numbers mean in these disk model numbers?n >  > RZ23L  > RZ26L  > RZ26Nw
 > RZ29L-AA
 > RZ29L-AS > 3 > What about the letters after the "6" in BA356-%%?k  E    There is no single plan that covers evcery case, but generally thelB    two characters after the - indicate things like enclosure type,*    factory installed, field installed, ...  F    Once sold you didn't really care about factory vs. field installed,D    and you may find the part number on the part did not reflect that    difference.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.231 ************************