1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 03 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 426       Contents:8 Re: Bind a socket to a low port number without privilege8 Re: Bind a socket to a low port number without privilege8 Re: Bind a socket to a low port number without privilege> Re: Business Week: Scott McNealy as Custer in CEO's Last Stand> Re: Business Week: Scott McNealy as Custer in CEO's Last Stand< Re: Copy of a file on a print queue before being deleted ???< Re: Copy of a file on a print queue before being deleted ???< Re: Copy of a file on a print queue before being deleted ??? Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performanceL Re: Distinction between 'retained on completion' and 'retained on error' ???L Re: Distinction between 'retained on completion' and 'retained on error' ???- Re: Is it decnet problem or Thruway problem ?  Re: Q:security (DECNET)?6 Re: Sending page messages from VMS using a Unix server The free lunch YOU pay for Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems $ VMS 7.2-1 / Oracle 7.3.4 / forms 4.5  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?2 Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?7 [Way OT] US Presidential Candidates - 'This Land' Movie   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:47:26 +02003 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> A Subject: Re: Bind a socket to a low port number without privilege * Message-ID: <410e8c8e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  A "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote in message > news:craigberry-6009EA.09093502082004@news.isp.giganews.com.../ > In article <410ca063@duster.adelaide.on.net>, . >  Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au> wrote: > H > accept.  I think it would be possible (and safer) to separate any codeG > requiring privilege into its own extension, and then only install the H > shareable image associated with the extension.  Haven't actually tried" > that, but I think it would work.  L You can't install shearable image with privileges (image activator will drop all privileges).9  For this you need to write a user writen system service.    Gorazd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:38:45 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>A Subject: Re: Bind a socket to a low port number without privilege D Message-ID: <craigberry-A87A65.21384502082004@news.isp.giganews.com>  * In article <410e8c8e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,5  "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> wrote:   N > You can't install shearable image with privileges (image activator will drop > all privileges).; >  For this you need to write a user writen system service.   H Oops.  Thanks for the reminder.  The UWSS does seem like the robust way  to go.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 23:19:06 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: Bind a socket to a low port number without privilege 3 Message-ID: <NayhnANxqIe2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   } In article <craigberry-A87A65.21384502082004@news.isp.giganews.com>, "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> writes: , > In article <410e8c8e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,7 >  "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> wrote:  > O >> You can't install shearable image with privileges (image activator will drop  >> all privileges). < >>  For this you need to write a user writen system service. > J > Oops.  Thanks for the reminder.  The UWSS does seem like the robust way  > to go.  I Only if you take care to ensure only an authorized image calls the entry.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 18:17:06 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: Business Week: Scott McNealy as Custer in CEO's Last Stand * Message-ID: <2n7ep2FtmnirU1@uni-berlin.de>  = In article <cf15391e.0408020927.78be9056@posting.google.com>, 4 	keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: > G > I found particularly interesting McNealy's statement that his biggest G > regret now is not having ported Solaris to Intel chips 6-7 years ago:  > A > "Three insiders recall a planning session in 1997, when several F > engineers made a presentation about the increasing power of low-costC > chips from Intel. Gene Banman, an exec who had just returned from H > running Sun's business in Japan, argued that Sun could get a chip fromG > Intel for 30% less than it cost Sun to make an equally powerful SPARC E > chip. Chet Silvestri, who ran chip design, shot back that his staff G > would never let that happen. After a 20-minute debate, McNealy put an H > end to the meeting. "I don't see the problem here," he said, accordingF > to one insider. Then he laid down his orders: For the time being, noF > Sun computers would have Intel inside. Today, Intel's processors areC > twice as fast as SPARC chips, and McNealy admits that his biggest F > regret is "not putting Solaris on [Intel's chips] six or seven years > ago.""  I Sorry, this sounds like a crock.  SUN introduced the 386i in 1989 running F SunOS 4.0.2.   Solaris 2.1 in 1992 supported x86.  Solaris 2.4 in 1994; supported x86.  And every version since has supported x86.  A Other intermediate versions may have (and probably did as I can't A imagine a reason to skip some versions) also supported x86, but I 8 don't have that information within easy grasp right now.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 18:05:39 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) G Subject: Re: Business Week: Scott McNealy as Custer in CEO's Last Stand < Message-ID: <cf15391e.0408021705.91f2b9e@posting.google.com>  Z bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<2n7ep2FtmnirU1@uni-berlin.de>...? > In article <cf15391e.0408020927.78be9056@posting.google.com>, 6 > 	keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:! > > Today, Intel's processors are E > > twice as fast as SPARC chips, and McNealy admits that his biggest H > > regret is "not putting Solaris on [Intel's chips] six or seven years
 > > ago."" > K > Sorry, this sounds like a crock.  SUN introduced the 386i in 1989 running H > SunOS 4.0.2.   Solaris 2.1 in 1992 supported x86.  Solaris 2.4 in 1994= > supported x86.  And every version since has supported x86.    4 So he must have been talking about Itanium, not x86.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:28:53 -0400* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>E Subject: Re: Copy of a file on a print queue before being deleted ??? 1 Message-ID: <QGvPc.759$KF.5507@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   D "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> a crit dans le message de- news:wk7Uuzam4QbD@eisner.encompasserve.org... 5 > In article <sL8pteMN51PJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,   briggs@encompasserve.org writes:? > > In article <yIaOc.687$KF.4544@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" " <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:H > >>> Yes, see /RETAIN for the queue or print command for a simple case. > >>>  > >> > >> Wrong. L > >> /RETAIN keeps the job on the queue after execution, but does not change the  > >> way the job runs.J > >> That is, if it's set to delete the file after printing, it will still delete > >> it. > > I > > No.  It won't.  I just tested it.  Ran the job.  Looked for the file. > > > Found it.  Deleted the entry.  Looked for the file.  Gone. > $ Oooouch!  You`re right. I was wrong./ This is a kind of side-effect from the /RETAIN.   I never tought it would do that.  E > That makes sense, since the major purpose in Batch of /RETAIN is to G > allow one to release the job to run again.  That won't work for print 1 > jobs if the file to be printed has bee deleted.   J This has never been the purpose for using it for me. Actually, I don't seeL why one would want to do this. Jobs that need to be resubmitted at intervalsI just reSUBMIT themselves as part of the procedure. Print jobs, just print  /COPIES=n.....F Me, I`ve only ever used this to be able to track outcome of batch jobsL (success, error). I use it with $GETQUI in a screen users can look at to see if their jobs ran fine.    Regards, --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 14:19:19 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.orgE Subject: Re: Copy of a file on a print queue before being deleted ??? 3 Message-ID: <z8xuif2dHYVL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <QGvPc.759$KF.5507@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:F > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> a crit dans le message de/ > news:wk7Uuzam4QbD@eisner.encompasserve.org... 6 >> In article <sL8pteMN51PJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>," > briggs@encompasserve.org writes:@ >> > In article <yIaOc.687$KF.4544@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem"$ > <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:I >> >>> Yes, see /RETAIN for the queue or print command for a simple case.  >> >>> >> >>  >> >> Wrong.M >> >> /RETAIN keeps the job on the queue after execution, but does not change  > the  >> >> way the job runs. K >> >> That is, if it's set to delete the file after printing, it will still  > delete	 >> >> it.  >> >J >> > No.  It won't.  I just tested it.  Ran the job.  Looked for the file.? >> > Found it.  Deleted the entry.  Looked for the file.  Gone.  >>& > Oooouch!  You`re right. I was wrong.1 > This is a kind of side-effect from the /RETAIN. " > I never tought it would do that. > F >> That makes sense, since the major purpose in Batch of /RETAIN is toH >> allow one to release the job to run again.  That won't work for print2 >> jobs if the file to be printed has bee deleted. > L > This has never been the purpose for using it for me. Actually, I don't seeN > why one would want to do this. Jobs that need to be resubmitted at intervalsK > just reSUBMIT themselves as part of the procedure. Print jobs, just print  > /COPIES=n.....  B If the toner runs out halfway through a print job, /COPIES=n won'tG save you.  But retaining the entry could.  That's the kind of situation < where I'd expect to usefully apply both /RETAIN and /DELETE.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 17:13:45 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) E Subject: Re: Copy of a file on a print queue before being deleted ??? 3 Message-ID: <ttO1gAwEG3Z+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <QGvPc.759$KF.5507@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:F > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> a crit dans le message de/ > news:wk7Uuzam4QbD@eisner.encompasserve.org...   F >> That makes sense, since the major purpose in Batch of /RETAIN is toH >> allow one to release the job to run again.  That won't work for print2 >> jobs if the file to be printed has bee deleted. > L > This has never been the purpose for using it for me. Actually, I don't seeN > why one would want to do this. Jobs that need to be resubmitted at intervalsK > just reSUBMIT themselves as part of the procedure. Print jobs, just print  > /COPIES=n.....  B But jobs retained on failure may need to run again when conditions are better.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:38:39 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> % Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance ' Message-ID: <410EA64E.69A2F6E9@aaa.com>   5 Doesn't PIPE always/mostly creates temp files for the  "piped" data ?  	 Jan-Erik.    Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote: > E > I'm trying to run some software on an Alpha PWS600au VMS 7.2 system G > with the output piped into first a search command and then InfoZip to C > compress the results, without creating a large intermediate file. B > Later I can use pipe and unzip to decompress into further search2 > commands again without large intermediate files. > @ > The problem is that using the DCL Pipe command seems very slowH > compared to writing things to disk and reading back. I'd like to avoidD > the intermediate files being stored uncompressed as they can be asH > large as 5GB but even minimum compression with InfoZip reduces them by > better than 20:1.  > H > The examples below would perform a a very short run and seem to suffer" > very badly from the use of Pipe. >  > Is Pipe always slow? > Any Suggestions?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 19:50:02 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance + Message-ID: <410EE139.6E9DE3FB@comcast.net>    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > 7 > Doesn't PIPE always/mostly creates temp files for the  > "piped" data ?  5 Not to my knowledge, but how could one test for that?    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 01:21:38 +0000 (UTC)% From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> % Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance 6 Message-ID: <slrncgtq6r.m1k.usenet@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>  _ In article <410EE139.6E9DE3FB@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >>  8 >> Doesn't PIPE always/mostly creates temp files for the >> "piped" data ?  > 7 > Not to my knowledge, but how could one test for that?   E Set an alarm ACE for file creation/deletion, and enable that for long   enough to do a single PIPE test?   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:29:37 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance D Message-ID: <craigberry-FD36B4.21293702082004@news.isp.giganews.com>   Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote: > > G > > I'm trying to run some software on an Alpha PWS600au VMS 7.2 system I > > with the output piped into first a search command and then InfoZip to E > > compress the results, without creating a large intermediate file. D > > Later I can use pipe and unzip to decompress into further search4 > > commands again without large intermediate files. > > B > > The problem is that using the DCL Pipe command seems very slowJ > > compared to writing things to disk and reading back. I'd like to avoidF > > the intermediate files being stored uncompressed as they can be asJ > > large as 5GB but even minimum compression with InfoZip reduces them by > > better than 20:1.  > > J > > The examples below would perform a a very short run and seem to suffer$ > > very badly from the use of Pipe. > >  > > Is Pipe always slow? > > Any Suggestions?  C There is a zipGrep.pl script in the examples directory of the Perl   extension Archive::Zip. See:  1 http://search.cpan.org/~nedkonz/Archive-Zip-1.12/   D You will also need to install the Compress::Zlib extension, and, of A course, Perl.  If you go this route you can avoid the subprocess  D creation and communication through mailboxes, which I'd think would / help, though I haven't actually done any tests.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 11:44:24 -0700 ( From: tjonard@usa.net (Thomas A. Jonard)U Subject: Re: Distinction between 'retained on completion' and 'retained on error' ??? < Message-ID: <3ad0fd0.0408021044.40d92aac@posting.google.com>  _ "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> wrote in message news:<2n6vg4FteoemU1@uni-berlin.de>... 8 > "Alexandre Mongin" <alexandre.mongin@csgv.fr> wrote...; > > > Use F$GETQUI with the JOB_STATUS item; description at J > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/4527/4527pro_004.html#jun_304 > > >  > > Danke fr die Antwort !  > > K > > Yes, Thx, but I really don't see how we can distinguish if the entry is 8 > > retained on error or is just retained on completion. > >  > > with QUI$_JOB_STATUS: F > >     QUI$V_JOB_RETAINED          Job has completed, but it is being >  retained  > > in the queue > > ' > > so the job is retained, and why ???  > F > Oops, you're correct. I'll have to dig some more,I guess. Apologies. >  > cu, 
 >   Martin    C In addition to and in conjunction with checking QUI$_JOB_STATUS for B QUI$V_JOB_RETAINED, check QUI$_QUEUE_FLAGS for the que for either < QUI$V_QUEUE_RETAIN_ALL or QUI$V_QUEUE_RETAIN_ERROR and check5 QUI$_JOB_FLAGS for the job for QUI$V_JOB_RETENTION or  QUI$V_JOB_ERROR_RETENTION    Tom   ( Thomas A. Jonard,  jonard@XLNsystems.com Senior Consultant, XLNsystems , XLNsystems -- VMS specialists, CharonVAX VAR   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 15:06:11 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)U Subject: Re: Distinction between 'retained on completion' and 'retained on error' ??? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0408021406.2fbf4120@posting.google.com>   l tjonard@usa.net (Thomas A. Jonard) wrote in message news:<3ad0fd0.0408021044.40d92aac@posting.google.com>...a > "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> wrote in message news:<2n6vg4FteoemU1@uni-berlin.de>... : > > "Alexandre Mongin" <alexandre.mongin@csgv.fr> wrote...= > > > > Use F$GETQUI with the JOB_STATUS item; description at L > > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/4527/4527pro_004.html#jun_304 > > > >  > > > Danke fr die Antwort !  > > > M > > > Yes, Thx, but I really don't see how we can distinguish if the entry is : > > > retained on error or is just retained on completion. > > >  > > > with QUI$_JOB_STATUS: H > > >     QUI$V_JOB_RETAINED          Job has completed, but it is being >  retained  > > > in the queue > > > ) > > > so the job is retained, and why ???  > > H > > Oops, you're correct. I'll have to dig some more,I guess. Apologies. > >  > > cu,  > >   Martin >  > E > In addition to and in conjunction with checking QUI$_JOB_STATUS for D > QUI$V_JOB_RETAINED, check QUI$_QUEUE_FLAGS for the que for either > > QUI$V_QUEUE_RETAIN_ALL or QUI$V_QUEUE_RETAIN_ERROR and check7 > QUI$_JOB_FLAGS for the job for QUI$V_JOB_RETENTION or  > QUI$V_JOB_ERROR_RETENTION  >  > Tom  > * > Thomas A. Jonard,  jonard@XLNsystems.com > Senior Consultant, XLNsystems . > XLNsystems -- VMS specialists, CharonVAX VAR  B With F$GETQUI you can use the CONDITION_VECTOR item to get the jobF completion status. I assume there is a corresponding item for $GETQUI.C This will give you the final status of the job (like $STATUS) which C will not only tell you if it was retained on error or not, but what  the error was!   JMHO   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 20:01:43 -0700 4 From: jignesh_vyas@hotmail.com (Jignesh Vyas 'Jigs')6 Subject: Re: Is it decnet problem or Thruway problem ?= Message-ID: <908a2e17.0408021901.2f301158@posting.google.com>   y Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message news:<410e1947$0$7322$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>...  > Jignesh Vyas 'Jigs' wrote: > . . .  > [snip] > . . . J > > Thanks a lot. /Default has solved the issue but is there any why whereJ > > i can simulate the other user's user id from system account. this willI > > enable me to simulate the other user id's less priv. user environment 0 > > to check the scripts without troubling them. > > 	 > > -Jigs  > H > You can use the Authorize utility to COPY the user, but changing only C > the USERNAME and the PASSWORD. You will then have a username and  @ > password to an account with the same UIC, Quotas, Privileges, J > Identifiers, Default Directory, and Login procedures as the user having G > problems. However, you must watch for the possibility that the login  H > procedures or the application are checking the USERNAME. In that case K > you need to change the login procedure or register the new USERNAME with   > the application as well.I > You should normally then be able to recreate the conditions which lead  H > to the user's problem and analyse it, without needing or changing the  > user's password. >  > EXAMPLE (creation):  >  >   $ set default sys$system >   $ show default >    SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]  >    =   SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]  >    =   SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] >   $ r authorize  >   UAF> show cayemberg /brief= >      Owner     Username  UIC    Account Privs Pri Directory D >      CAYEMBERG CAYEMBERG [150,1]        All   4   DKA0:[CAYEMBERG]. >   UAF> copy cayemberg kmberg /password=fooeyK >   %UAF-I-PWDLESSMIN, new password is shorter than minimum password length % >   %UAF-I-COPMSG, user record copied I >   %UAF-W-SAMEUIC, new user record has the same UIC as the source record  >   UAF> show kmberg /brief > >        Owner     Username UIC    Account Privs Pri DirectoryE >        CAYEMBERG KMBERG   [150,1]        All   4   DKA0:[CAYEMBERG]  > G > I have done this often, but also needed to register my test username  " > with the application in my case. > I > Be careful when deleting the test account, since the real user has the  I > same UIC. You don't want to delete the original account as well. It is  K > always best to first test such procedures on a dummy account, to be sure  K > you have found and understood all issues before doing it on a production  G > system. You may also need to check, and maybe follow or change, your  G > companies security policies or procedures to perform such an account   > copy for testing puposes.  >  > EXAMPLE (removal): >  >   UAF> remove kmberg@ >   %UAF-I-REMMSG, record removed from system authorization file >   UAF> show kmberg0 >   %UAF-W-BADSPC, no user matches specification > 	 > Cheers!  >  > Keith Cayemberg + > IBM Business Services - Hannover, Germany   	 Hi Keith,   B Thanks for your information but my biggest problem is that I can'tF touch SYSUAF at all, we have a seperate QA department for it and to doC any change in SYSUAF requires a long chain of approvals. :)  I just 8 saw one application called "jump" in freeware which says  ? "JUMP allows a user to login exactly  as another user without a 	 password. @ It  also  allows a more restricted (non-exact) impersonation of  another  user."     -Jigs    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 13:16:07 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)! Subject: Re: Q:security (DECNET)? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408021216.5b501aaa@posting.google.com>   v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<KbB0yn$omkU3@eisner.encompasserve.org>...O > In article <ceiek6$8l9$1@ls219.htnet.hr>, "hrvoje" <ulysses@kset.org> writes: 
 > > Hello, > >  > > sorry but I'm newbie :)  > > N > > one friend works for company which uses DECNET with DDCMP and is trying toO > > persuade me that no additional data encryption is necessary because he uses 3 > > some inherent protection in this two protocols?  > H >    DDCMP does not encrypt data.  DECnet does not encrypt data.  DECnetG >    does provide levels of protection that TCP/IP doesn't provide.  A  H >    variety of encryption packages do work with DECnet whether DDCMP or >    other transport.  > . > > how hard would it be to sniff the network? > D >    Most COTS network sniffers understand DECnet.  Many kiddie toysG >    for PCs don't, but if you can look at the raw packets, the data is 
 >    legible.  > C >    But DDCMP does not run over the kind of network media that you = >    can plug many network sniffers or PCs into, so physical  C >    security by obscurity may be your friend.  A determined attack ? >    by an knowledgable person would not find the media to be a  >    major difficulty. > H >    On the other hand, if you're actually running DECnet over ethernet,D >    then you're not using DDCMP and you can plug in those sniffers.  D Process Software can enable their Phase IV over IP to run encrypted, for a price! :)    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 13:23:11 -0700 0 From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter)? Subject: Re: Sending page messages from VMS using a Unix server = Message-ID: <a3c44af1.0408021223.4d199ff7@posting.google.com>   a brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote in message news:<04072112152859@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>...  > O > With either one you can wrapper the script as needed and run it on VMS rather  > than rely on NT or UNIX. > 
 > (SMTP mail)  > $ MAIL >  > MAIL> SEND* > To:     SMTP%"5556667777@mobile.att.net" > Subj:   TESTJ > Enter your message below. Press CTRL/Z when complete, or CTRL/C to quit: > TEST >  Exit  >  > (SMTP_SFF) > 0 > $ SMTP_SFF == "$sys$system:tcpip$smtp_sff.exe" > $ SMTP_SFFK > Usage: SMTP_SFF infile_name [-logfile logfile_name] [-loglevel log_level] M > infile_name         : Name of text input file containing SMTP mail to send. M > logfile_name        : Name of text log file to log diagnostics to. (Default  > SYS$OUTPUT).I > log_level           : Debug log level. 1 or 0 at this time. (Default 0) # > %DCL-E-INVQUAL, invalid qualifier  >   C How do I format the "infile_name" file for SMTP_SFF, in particular,   where do I put the pager number.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 08:31:41 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com># Subject: The free lunch YOU pay for 3 Message-ID: <87vfg1cb9u.fsf_-_@k9.prep.synonet.com>   H lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes:  B > I don't think there is a lot of subsidizing of engineers lunchesE > going on at the boot camp.  Many of the presenters don't each lunch F > there.  There is a benefit to having some of the engineers eat lunchE > with the attendees, however: speaking for myself, I try to sit with D > the attendees when I'm there, so they can ask questions and engage2 > in discussions outside of the formal classrooms.  B > Keep in mind that the engineers who present there spend a lot of> > their own time working on the presentations and meeting with > attendees.  C I would consider paying for the engineers free lunch the best value  money of the lot.   < Or as Ric said, "As long as your buying, I'll keep talking."   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 18:48:22 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) ( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems2 Message-ID: <W%vPc.7022$yt1.4544@news.cpqcorp.net>  q In article <Cdmw8y9v1aRi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: i >In article <tyrPc.6962$351.3157@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes: 7 >> In article <ImG188Katng8@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  @ >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >>  I >>>   Somehow nobody ever caught onto this problem with mechanical voting  >>>   machines, ...  >>  E >> Huh?  Many cases of mechanical errors or deliberate tampering wiht - >> machies are on record.  Do some reseaarch.  > G >   Yes, but nobody jumped up and down and made a lot of noise about it / >   like they are with the electronic machines.   G Depends on what you mean by "a lot of noise".  With mechanical machines G you have to tamper with every machine, one by one.  So it is physically F difficult to do a really "wide spread" job.  But there has been plenty1 of noise made realtive to the machines' problems.   B On the other hand, it is eash to change one probram and effect ALL the thouch screen systems...   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 18:51:02 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) ( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems2 Message-ID: <q2wPc.7023$yt1.5513@news.cpqcorp.net>  + In article <2n7ch0FsgnrhU1@uni-berlin.de>,  * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  D >In your last message you said you were a cynical pessimist. In thatE >case, what makes you think you can trust the poll workers?  Oh, they G >are made up of members of both parties to ensure fairness.  Of course, < >that also means you only have to buy off half of them.  ...  G It is a lot harder to buy off enough poll workers to make a difference. $ Sure, it can, has and will happen.    F But altering one little bit of computer code is SOOOOoooo much easier. --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 12:52:20 -0700 0 From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter)( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems= Message-ID: <a3c44af1.0408021152.4b86af83@posting.google.com>    Ok.   B    I have really enjoyed this thread  (although it is clearly OT).  E    I think I have learned some stuff, and I thank you all.   However, B I see a lot of discussion about stuff which surprises me.   (In no particular order...)   Elliot Roper pointed out tha: F     "Voter" Receipts are out because of "vote selling".   If a receiptC is provided then the voter has proof that he/she voted a particular ' way and could receive financial reward.   C >>>>>>   OK. No "VOTER" Receipts.   After all, voters do not (to my E knowledge) get receipts now.   This doesnot however stop the receipts D being printed and placed in a ballot box before the voter leaves the polling station.  C However, Alan Winston implies that ...the voter must be able to see  what he/she voted for...  F >>>>>>   Does this necessarily imply the need for a receipt?   What doA they do now?   a)  Check their responses on the mechanical system D before pulling the lever.    b)  Read their ballot before putting it@ in the box.    Why not try READING THE SCREEN BEFORE PUSHING THE BUTTON. B     It is not possible to compensate for stupidity of people!   AtF some point it is necessary to assume that they are capable of making a decision on their own.D     At least the Computer can be programmed to ask "Are YOU SURE??",A an option which you dont get with the alternatives, i.e. once the < lever is pulled, or the ballot is in the box, you are done!!  D Andrew Walters commented to the effect that OS doesn't matter.   The@ implication of that was that ...it the application code can't be hacked, then you are OK...  B >>>>>>   I might argue with that since if you can hack the OS, how safe is your application/data.  F      My last comment is regarding William Bochnick's posting, vis.    @ ...but how do you prove the person's intent (I know it's a sillyF argument, but read what the poster posted before me) not the machine's count?  C >>>>>>   Except in the situation where the system has distorted the F voter's intent, i.e. "hanging chads", multiple check marks on ballots,C blunt or non-functional pens, etc., it is not the responsibility of B the voting system to determine the "voter's intent".   That is the voter's responsibility. D      A computerized system would completely eliminate the situationsC listed above.    In fact, I cannot think of a single way in which a C computer system could cast doubt on a voters "intent" (although I'm & sure you guys can come up with some..)   Dave Baxter    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 12:55:36 -0700 0 From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter)( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems= Message-ID: <a3c44af1.0408021155.34b89965@posting.google.com>    Ok.   B    I have really enjoyed this thread  (although it is clearly OT).  E    I think I have learned some stuff, and I thank you all.   However, B I see a lot of discussion about stuff which surprises me.   (In no particular order...)   Elliot Roper pointed out tha: F     "Voter" Receipts are out because of "vote selling".   If a receiptC is provided then the voter has proof that he/she voted a particular ' way and could receive financial reward.   C >>>>>>   OK. No "VOTER" Receipts.   After all, voters do not (to mynE knowledge) get receipts now.   This doesnot however stop the receiptsiD being printed and placed in a ballot box before the voter leaves the polling station.  C However, Alan Winston implies that ...the voter must be able to see' what he/she voted for...  F >>>>>>   Does this necessarily imply the need for a receipt?   What doA they do now?   a)  Check their responses on the mechanical systemnD before pulling the lever.    b)  Read their ballot before putting it@ in the box.    Why not try READING THE SCREEN BEFORE PUSHING THE BUTTON.rB     It is not possible to compensate for stupidity of people!   AtF some point it is necessary to assume that they are capable of making a decision on their own.D     At least the Computer can be programmed to ask "Are YOU SURE??",A an option which you dont get with the alternatives, i.e. once thee< lever is pulled, or the ballot is in the box, you are done!!  D Andrew Walters commented to the effect that OS doesn't matter.   The@ implication of that was that ...it the application code can't be hacked, then you are OK...  B >>>>>>   I might argue with that since if you can hack the OS, how safe is your application/data.  F      My last comment is regarding William Bochnick's posting, vis.    @ ...but how do you prove the person's intent (I know it's a sillyF argument, but read what the poster posted before me) not the machine's count?  C >>>>>>   Except in the situation where the system has distorted theaF voter's intent, i.e. "hanging chads", multiple check marks on ballots,C blunt or non-functional pens, etc., it is not the responsibility ofdB the voting system to determine the "voter's intent".   That is the voter's responsibility.oD      A computerized system would completely eliminate the situationsC listed above.    In fact, I cannot think of a single way in which a C computer system could cast doubt on a voters "intent" (although I'me& sure you guys can come up with some..)   Dave Baxter    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:02:20 GMTc3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)l( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems2 Message-ID: <g5xPc.7033$yB1.2217@news.cpqcorp.net>  > In article <a3c44af1.0408021152.4b86af83@posting.google.com>, 2 dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) writes:  D >          ...    In fact, I cannot think of a single way in which a: >computer system could cast doubt on a voters "intent" ...  A How about a computer system that records something other than thetF voter's "intent" (as indicated by where the voter touched the screen).? This could be because of an unintended bug or malicious intent.g   -- rJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 20:32:35 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems6 Message-ID: <00A35C1D.A2C8D61B@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  p In article <a3c44af1.0408021152.4b86af83@posting.google.com>, dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) writes: >Ok. > C >   I have really enjoyed this thread  (although it is clearly OT).t > F >   I think I have learned some stuff, and I thank you all.   However,C >I see a lot of discussion about stuff which surprises me.   (In no. >particular order...)i >. >Elliot Roper pointed out tha:G >    "Voter" Receipts are out because of "vote selling".   If a receiptdD >is provided then the voter has proof that he/she voted a particular( >way and could receive financial reward. >iD >>>>>>>   OK. No "VOTER" Receipts.   After all, voters do not (to myF >knowledge) get receipts now.   This doesnot however stop the receiptsE >being printed and placed in a ballot box before the voter leaves ther >polling station.  >hD >However, Alan Winston implies that ...the voter must be able to see >what he/she voted for...  >rG >>>>>>>   Does this necessarily imply the need for a receipt?   What do B >they do now?   a)  Check their responses on the mechanical systemE >before pulling the lever.    b)  Read their ballot before putting itlA >in the box.    Why not try READING THE SCREEN BEFORE PUSHING THE  >BUTTON.C >    It is not possible to compensate for stupidity of people!   AtrG >some point it is necessary to assume that they are capable of making a  >decision on their own.pE >    At least the Computer can be programmed to ask "Are YOU SURE??", B >an option which you dont get with the alternatives, i.e. once the= >lever is pulled, or the ballot is in the box, you are done!!e  M My point isn't to compensate for the stupidity of people; it's to give peoplecO a feeling of security that what they voted is what got recorded, and to providedL a meaningful thing that can be re-counted.  Fully computerized voting can beH manipulated wholesale; that's not good.  The system needs not only to be0 trustworthy, but to _be seen to be trustworthy_.     -- Alanw --  O ===============================================================================n0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056IM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 14:39:45 -0700c0 From: dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter)( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems= Message-ID: <a3c44af1.0408021339.43ac60d1@posting.google.com>    Ok.'  B    I have really enjoyed this thread  (although it is clearly OT).  E    I think I have learned some stuff, and I thank you all.   However,sB I see a lot of discussion about stuff which surprises me.   (In no particular order...)   Elliot Roper pointed out that:F     "Voter" Receipts are out because of "vote selling".   If a receiptC is provided then the voter has proof that he/she voted a particularh' way and could receive financial reward.n  C >>>>>>   OK. No "VOTER" Receipts.   After all, voters do not (to my1F knowledge) get receipts now.   This does not however stop the receiptsD being printed and placed in a ballot box before the voter leaves the polling station.  C However, Alan Winston implies that ...the voter must be able to seeo what he/she voted for...  F >>>>>>   Does this necessarily imply the need for a receipt?   What doA they do now?   a)  Check their responses on the mechanical systemlD before pulling the lever.    b)  Read their ballot before putting it@ in the box.    Why not try READING THE SCREEN BEFORE PUSHING THE BUTTON. B     It is not possible to compensate for stupidity of people!   AtF some point it is necessary to assume that they are capable of making a decision on their own.D     At least the Computer can be programmed to ask "Are YOU SURE??",A an option which you dont get with the alternatives, i.e. once the>< lever is pulled, or the ballot is in the box, you are done!!  D Andrew Walters commented to the effect that OS doesn't matter.   The@ implication of that was that ...if the application code can't be hacked, then you are OK...  B >>>>>>   I might argue with that since if you can hack the OS, how safe is your application/data.  C      My last comment is regarding William Bochnick's posting, vis.  @ ...but how do you prove the person's intent (I know it's a sillyF argument, but read what the poster posted before me) not the machine's count?  C >>>>>>   Except in the situation where the system has distorted thehF voter's intent, i.e. "hanging chads", multiple check marks on ballots,C blunt or non-functional pens, etc., it is not the responsibility ofoB the voting system to determine the "voter's intent".   That is the voter's responsibility.yD      A computerized system would completely eliminate the situationsC listed above.    In fact, I cannot think of a single way in which aiC computer system could cast doubt on a voters "intent" (although I'mt& sure you guys can come up with some..)   Keep it up guys    Dave Baxtern   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:42:52 +0100h& From: Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk>( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems1 Message-ID: <020820042242520229%nospam@yrl.co.uk>t  B In article <a3c44af1.0408021339.43ac60d1@posting.google.com>, Dave, Baxter <dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com> wrote:  ! (Received here least three times)tD >    I have really enjoyed this thread  (although it is clearly OT).  , Is this a case of "post early - post often"?   -- iC I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address.t fsnospam$elliott$$   ------------------------------   Date: 02 Aug 2004 21:57:10 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com>-( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems7 Message-ID: <Xns9539F3ECF341Ddcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>f  > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote in. news:00A35C1D.A2C8D61B@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU   H > My point isn't to compensate for the stupidity of people; it's to give? > people a feeling of security that what they voted is what got F > recorded, and to provide a meaningful thing that can be re-counted. D > Fully computerized voting can be manipulated wholesale; that's notH > good.  The system needs not only to be trustworthy, but to _be seen to > be trustworthy_. m   Bingo!  F Someone's hit the nail on the head, the system needs to be seen to be J trustworthy.  Therefor it needs to be understandable by as large a number A of people as possible.  That simply isn't possible with a purely  B computerised solution.  Computerised voting is all about counting K convenience and the demand for instant results.  It discards verifiability  & and paper trails for those attributes.     Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.oG http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.t   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 15:40:14 -0700e( From: univms@bigfoot.com (Hamlyn Mootoo)( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems= Message-ID: <9cf7e06d.0408021440.424ae43c@posting.google.com>l  D I just happened to be looking in on this newsgroup as I haven't readB it in quite a while, and saw this topic.  Coincidently, I had just@ drafted a memo which I sent to a couple Congressmen and SenatorsA concerning this very issue. What I wrote to them (modified to fit  here) follows:  1 Start of memo____________________________________,  @ Concerning the bills before Congress regarding electronic votingD machines having to produce paper receipts, I respectfully submit two' suggestions which you may find helpful:-  A 1) In addition to requiring electronic voting machines to producegE human and machine readable receipts to deposit in a lockbox so that apF physical recount may be subsequently done, I would advocate that these? receipts have a unique non-decipherable transaction number, andm= election results from each precinct be uploaded to a PUBLICLYlB available web site that would list each transaction number and theA associated votes.  Ideally, this information would be uploaded nonE later than one day after all votes are cast.  This way, a voter could F take his of her receipt and go to the website to make sure that his orF her vote actually showed up there.  Since only transaction numbers areC used, who voted for whom remains completely anonymous-- a voter caniC only verify his/her own vote to make sure it shows up, because onlymF that person has the unique number.  If a voter's vote does not show upB on the web site, it can be reported to the appropriate authoritiesC immediately.  This way, literally anyone in the world with internet F access could verify ANY election personally, by simply counting up allC the votes on the web site. You could also go so far as to include a0E passcode so that a voter could go to the site to indicate that he/sheeE verified his/her vote, so that fraudulent duplicates could not occur.   D For instance, a (simplified) example of a single web site page could look like this:u  E Voter:          Pres.        Senate    House   Local1 Local2 VerifiedrD ------------   ------------- --------- ------ ------- -----  -------A x43fd58r23r    Kerry         Kennedy   Markey Smith   Jones     YnA yer452kjk86    Bush          Hatch     Hyde   Johnson Parker    N A pw32de42se5    Kerry         Biden     Markey Smythe  Sununu    YtA vd45s3299kj    Bush          Hatch     Hyde   Curry   Parker    Ys  & And a voter's receipt could look like:  0 ------------------------------------------------  Date: nov 4, 2004 Time: 14:12:02 yer452kjk86            Pass Code: tre54g37h8we43m/ -----------------------------------------------d  B 2) The second suggestion, although not related to the first, wouldF work rather well with the first.  I would advocate holding what I callE an election lottery.  That is, a portion of federal election campaign:D funds would be reserved for a NATIONAL election day lottery, wherebyF simply casting a vote enters the voter into a drawing for REAL MONEY. B For instance, there could be  a national 1 million dollar prize asE well as a state $100,000 prize, and County $1,000 prizes.  Again this-E is not related to the first suggestion above, it would only require anA paper voting ticket from the machine, not any type of web site orDD voting record.  A large percentage of the country, especially peopleD who are not wealthy, who generally don't vote, buy lottery tickets. D This sort of incentive I believe, would drive millions more to vote,E because there would be a more perceptible potential reward associatedeD with the act of voting. And publicly televising who the winners wereD would go a long way to promoting more participation, just like state
 lotteries do.   < End of memo_________________________________________________  F As far as the "vote for sale" problem is concerned, this system, would> provide the best EVIDENCE of votes being sold, since one could? statistically scan the data for suspicious relationships at the:F precinct or higher level.  To orchestrate a vote-for-hire scheme largeE enough to influence a major election would be EXTREMEMLY difficult onnA a statewide or national basis, since it would require independenttF collusion by thousands of voters, and absolute secrecy by ALL of them.   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:25:33 +0000 (UTC)+ From: "Rob H" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com>d- Subject: VMS 7.2-1 / Oracle 7.3.4 / forms 4.5s0 Message-ID: <cembgd$nbe$2@sparta.btinternet.com>   Is anyone here in my boat:  K We are running OpenVMS 7.2-1, Oracle 7.3.4 and Forms 45 for our system. HassI anyone here migrated their forms to something else, java or the like, andmJ what are they using. Or do they have any plans to do so in the near future2 and what might their plans be? Or any suggestions?  L Alternatively does 7.3.4 and Forms4.5 work on VMS 7.3-1 even though it isn't. desupported before I go and try it for myself?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 13:20:30 -0700s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?i= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408021220.1cc3c4e1@posting.google.com>i  _ "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> wrote in message news:<2n6v1hFtfosmU1@uni-berlin.de>...-/ > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote...17 > > johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com (John Reinhardt) wrote ... I > > > If you could pick any of the following 3 IP networking packages foreK > > > your home VMS (Alpha) system(s), which would you choose and why?  TheMJ > > > choices are HP TCP/IP, Process TCPware and Process Multinet.  If youI > > > were going to expose your system to the internet as a Web/Mail/List.+ > > > server would that change your choice?; > >r0 > > http://www.process.com/tcpip/tcpcompare.html >  > But the gap is closing:n > H > The whole "Secure..." section also has a "YES" for TCP/IP Services 5.4) > (or should that be a "YEA, WELL..." ;-)y > ( > "DHCP client" is a "NO / YES" thingie.@ > "BIND implementation based on v9" is, too (though Alpha only). > E > Plus, TCPware v5.6 came out in April, 2001... only ECOs since then.  >  > cu,e
 >   Martin  @ but you are stuck on the bsd kernel, not the vms kernel, so even@ if ucx catches up, it will never run crisper than TCPware ... :)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:55:44 -0400% From: "Chris" <mc.moore@sympatico.ca>E) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?_: Message-ID: <oTxPc.11611$Jq2.457560@news20.bellglobal.com>  7 "Brian Hechinger" <wonko@4amlunch.net> wrote in messageO0 news:20040802143008.GI11848@ford.4amlunch.net...A > On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 02:20:10PM +0000, Michael Austin wrote:p > >iG > > I have used TCPIP 5.{1|2|3} on an application that uses the network1K > > EXTENSIVELY with Oracle and a multi-tier architecture.  They were stillDH > > evaluating 5.4 when I left.  In that data center we had 200+ Alpha's7 > > running 7.3-{0|1|2} and had absolutely no problems.c > J > i've been following this thread, and it seems the only advice i can give is% > the same advice i've always gotten.r > J > they are all good.  if you have experience with one, stick with it since youdI > already know it.  other than that, pick one, you won't be un-happy.  ;)  >  > -brian > --  G > "The cats tend to administer themselves, and contrary to the expected3 facts,K > the house and everything in it was installed for their benefit."   -- Nic  Clews   F To a limited degree, I'd agree.  If one is comfortable with UCX (yeah,G TCP/IP Services...., whatever), then go ahead, but if someone is asking ? about all 3, I would presume little or no familiarity with any.   J I only have 3rd hand knowledge of Multi-Net, but it is spoken of highly by people I trust.e  L We went with TCPware a long while ago, and my experience since with versionsF of UCX (4.7 thru 5.3) has been frustrating by comparison.  Difficult /F non-intuitive admin, UNIXy terminology and docs (yuck), and on and on.L TCPware on the other hand has always done everything asked of it, and can beA configured and supported in a traditional VMS manner ie. read theeB installation guide, answer the config questions correctly (and theK descriptions are consistent and understandable, btw) and you're good to go.X& Definitely NOT my experience with UCX.  E Just my $.02 (Cdn -- that's $.016 US, so take it for what it's worth)    ------------------------------   Date: 02 Aug 2004 21:19:29 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com>n) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package? 7 Message-ID: <Xns9539ED7DB9513dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>,  $ %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Bob Koehler wrote in+ news:yzIC5bbzaYv9@eisner.encompasserve.org 0  D > In article <u4sPc.340$5_7.167@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>, Michael. > Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:  >> mF >> I have used TCPIP 5.{1|2|3} on an application that uses the networkD >> EXTENSIVELY with Oracle and a multi-tier architecture.  They wereE >> still evaluating 5.4 when I left.  In that data center we had 200+s> >> Alpha's running 7.3-{0|1|2} and had absolutely no problems. > C >    Like HP's TCP/IP Services for VMS seems to always be behind ineG >    features. It looks to me like you probably don't need SSH et. al.,mF >    which are having birthing pains in TCP/IP Services.  The OP wantsC >    to be on the internet, he may very well need the latest stuff.   J That was partially my point, plus a slight expansion on your original one  word response.  C I in no way meant to imply you'd have problems running HP's TCP/IP aJ services, but from a beginner's point of view I strongly suspect you will - be up and running a lot faster with Multinet.e     Doc. -- cG OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.rG http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.o   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 14:48:49 -0700.& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?t= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0408021348.72ca5dcf@posting.google.com>h  s johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com (John Reinhardt) wrote in message news:<5d708ac7.0407312340.1db8849@posting.google.com>...OE > If you could pick any of the following 3 IP networking packages forXG > your home VMS (Alpha) system(s), which would you choose and why?  TheUF > choices are HP TCP/IP, Process TCPware and Process Multinet.  If youE > were going to expose your system to the internet as a Web/Mail/Liste' > server would that change your choice?,  D I've always liked TCPware, ever since I first used FTP-VMS V1.2 backF around 1987.  Our apps used both command line and program/api methods,E and it was nice to be able to use a straight QIO interface.  We stillr@ use TCPware on a number of VAXen, and I used it at home with theB TCPware hobby license until the VAX was qiesced (too darn hot, tooC much power usage compared to a faster Alpha).  Sadly every Alpha wei> install comes with the TCPIP license, and since we work at theE small-medium (aka very price conscious) end of the market, there's noaD chance of talking the customers into the extra expense for TCPware. C That and the increasing importance of the internet tools (SWS, SWB,eC PHP, Java, etc.) which are only 'supported' with the HP product are . dragging us into using TCPIP across the board.   No experience with Multinet.   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 19:47:22 -0500g2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?o+ Message-ID: <410EE099.F5C3F825@comcast.net>s   John Reinhardt wrote:D > E > If you could pick any of the following 3 IP networking packages for G > your home VMS (Alpha) system(s), which would you choose and why?  TheyF > choices are HP TCP/IP, Process TCPware and Process Multinet.  If youE > were going to expose your system to the internet as a Web/Mail/ListY' > server would that change your choice?:  5 Well, I've use all three and my opions run like this:   - UCX, now known as TCP/IP Services for OpenVMSy - New name too longhB - User interface is inconsistent - prefer if they'd used NCP as anA example (DEFINE to setup/modify the non-volatile database, SET to-7 setup/modify the volatile (in-memory) data structures).oD - Lacks key features I've come to depend on (like SNMP, NLP devices)   TCPware  - Good, solid performanceaC - How to use it is a bit obscure just referring to the on-line helpb. (I've never actually seen the TCPware doc.'s) 1 - Seems to have good feature parity with Multinet9   MultinetF - Good user interface, if a bit confusing: terminology differs betweenD commands in MULTINET CONFIGURE/NETWORK and the logical names used by5 Multinet. May be an artfifact of its heritage. Dunno.hG - Provides target devices for print queues that are set /SPOOLED and soi3 can be opened for output or they can be COPY-ed to.DD - Don't like the compiled host table thing - should just reload this- from text at run time (startup or on-demand).PH - CONFIGURE/PRINTERS utility is good, but a kinda screwy. Should have anH option to create logical names for each print queue. For example, if theD target of the queue PTR2 is NLP1:, then invoking the printer startup? procures shoud (re-)DEFINE a logical name like MNET_PTR2 with alF translation of NLP1:. As it is, finding the NLP device associated withB any queue is rather a task. I'd rather not need to know the actual# device nmae, just the logical name.s  F As I wrote in another post (I think), I'd actually like to see ProcessC Software negotiate with hp to combine all three products into one -bG preserving the existing interfaces so nothing breaks, but moving towardlG a single, consistent interface and a robust product, and then sell thatuC bundled with OpenVMS under the base OS license and provide support.s   D.J.D.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 00:56:55 GMT- From: healyzh@aracnet.com:) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?h, Message-ID: <cemnsn013up@enews2.newsguy.com>  0 John Reinhardt <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote:E > If you could pick any of the following 3 IP networking packages foroG > your home VMS (Alpha) system(s), which would you choose and why?  TheoF > choices are HP TCP/IP, Process TCPware and Process Multinet.  If youE > were going to expose your system to the internet as a Web/Mail/List ' > server would that change your choice?"  I I went with TCPIP (UCX at the time) as hobbyist licenses didn't exist for L TCPware or Multinet at that time.  I've stayed with TCPIP in part becuase ofJ my existing experience with it, and in part because I wanted to stick withE the stack owned by the same company that owns the OS.  I've seriously M considered switching at times over features such as anti-spam, xdm, and ssh.  K Finally TCPIP has all the features that I need at the moment, now if they'd F just work on the performance.  At least the performance is better than, CMUIP on a MicroVAX II running VMS 5.5-2 :^)   		Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Aug 2004 18:06:57 GMTt From: healyzh@aracnet.come; Subject: Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?a, Message-ID: <celvs102j04@enews1.newsguy.com>  4 Undisclosed <nomail@dontbeaweaselspammer.com> wrote:I > I would love to get some exotic hardware to play with eventually... an  K > old Alpha system to run OpenVMS and maybe some cheap SPARC-based systems  J > to play around with and old IBM machines to run AIX on. Or even better,  > a brand new G5 Powerbook. :)  J I'm trying to figure out how any of this (other than a G5 Powerbook, since that doesn't exist) is exotic.  K I daily use a G5 2x2 PowerMac, DEC PWS 433au (OpenVMS 7.3-2 of course), and F a Sun Sparcserver 5/110.  I occasionally use my Sun Ultrasparc 60/2300; (Solaris 8), SGI O2-R12k/270 (IRIX 6.5.21), and PDP-11/73. n  L One thing about comp.os.vms is that it's always a little surprising just how many of us here are Mac users.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:53:36 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>o@ Subject: [Way OT] US Presidential Candidates - 'This Land' Movie' Message-ID: <410E7FA0.5050104@MMaz.com>0  I It doesn't matter on which side of the fence you fall, if you have Flash  D or Shockwave plugged into your browser and sound on your system and F could really use a Monday morning laugh, you must check this out.  If H you want the raw .SWF file, let me know and I'll e-mail that off-list...  ] http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/contentPlay/shockwave.jsp?id=this_land&preplay=1&ratingBar=offC   Barrym   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.426 ************************