1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 04 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 428       Contents: advanced server 7.3  Re: advanced server 7.3  Re: advanced server 7.3  AlphaServer 800 Console  Re: AlphaServer 800 Console  Re: AlphaServer 800 Console  BASIC debugging -- please help8 Re: Bind a socket to a low port number without privilege Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DS10 questions Re: DS10 questions Re: DS10 questions8 Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem?< Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem?< Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem?< Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem?< Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem? Re: Solaris to Itanium... # Somebody at HP is listening at last ? Re: Structure of SMTP Receiver - simple spam and content filter  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems   Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?2 Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?2 Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 13:28:16 -0700 ) From: magalettac@hotmail.com (magalettac)  Subject: advanced server 7.3= Message-ID: <2fd964e0.0408031228.6c0639f5@posting.google.com>    Hi,   C We are in the process of migrating our Windows nt 4.0 domain to ads F 2003, we have one advanced server 7.3 (formally pathworks), VMS 7.3-2,E when I built this box initialy version 6.*, I had to make this server F a bdc, once we migrate our current domain to ads, what do I have to do@ to advanced server to make it understand it is part of an activeA directory . I dont want to run in mixed mode for a long period of F time, I want to get to native mode ads as soon as possible. Is there a> way to demote the server to be just a member any info would be helpfull...    Thanks   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:53:20 -0400$ From: "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com>  Subject: Re: advanced server 7.3, Message-ID: <ceou02$alb$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>   Hi,   K You really, really should get Advanced Server for OpenVMS v7.3A ECO3 (or at L least v7.3A ECO2).  v7.3 doesn't support Windows 2003, and won't receive any4 further updates.   To determine the true version do:  # $ @sys$startup:pwrk$define_commands  $ pwver   J The image version column will indicate v7.3-130A for v7.3A ECO3 (v7.3-120A/ for eco2); for v7.3 it will indicated v7.3-100.   L After you've installed v7.3A ECOx, run @sys$update:pwrk$config to change theK role from BDC to Member server (pwrk$config will retain your existing share 
 database).  K But before you run pwrk$config, you need to enable a security policy on all H Windows 2003 domain controllers (it's disabled by default)  in order for* Advanced Server to function in the domain:  5 Network access: Allow anonymous SID/Name translations   F Oh, and Advanced Server won't understand (nor care) that it's in an ADK domain.  Just like Windows NT v4 servers, Advanced Server for OpenVMS still J behaves as though the domain has a PDC.  There'll be one domain controllerI in the AD domain which serves the role of PDC Emulator (one of those FSMO - roles) for backward compatibility purposes...    That's about it.   HTH,   Paul  6 "magalettac" <magalettac@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:2fd964e0.0408031228.6c0639f5@posting.google.com...  > Hi,  > E > We are in the process of migrating our Windows nt 4.0 domain to ads H > 2003, we have one advanced server 7.3 (formally pathworks), VMS 7.3-2,G > when I built this box initialy version 6.*, I had to make this server H > a bdc, once we migrate our current domain to ads, what do I have to doB > to advanced server to make it understand it is part of an activeC > directory . I dont want to run in mixed mode for a long period of H > time, I want to get to native mode ads as soon as possible. Is there a@ > way to demote the server to be just a member any info would be
 > helpfull...  >  > Thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:50:17 GMT . From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>  Subject: Re: advanced server 7.3, Message-ID: <dUSPc.24725$hw6.24710@edtnps84>  G advanced server 7.x allows allows alpha/vms to be a member server only.  That is how I have it setup now   6 "magalettac" <magalettac@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:2fd964e0.0408031228.6c0639f5@posting.google.com...  > Hi,  > E > We are in the process of migrating our Windows nt 4.0 domain to ads H > 2003, we have one advanced server 7.3 (formally pathworks), VMS 7.3-2,G > when I built this box initialy version 6.*, I had to make this server H > a bdc, once we migrate our current domain to ads, what do I have to doB > to advanced server to make it understand it is part of an activeC > directory . I dont want to run in mixed mode for a long period of H > time, I want to get to native mode ads as soon as possible. Is there a@ > way to demote the server to be just a member any info would be
 > helpfull...  >  > Thanks   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 14:01:58 -0700 / From: johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com (John Reinhardt)   Subject: AlphaServer 800 Console= Message-ID: <5d708ac7.0408031301.6876df44@posting.google.com>    Hello everyone,   C     I have recently come into possesion of a used AlphaServer 800.  E It's clean and, except for missing the top door which would cover the D CD/floppy/control buttons, in very good shape.  My problem is this -F after I hook up a keyboard, mouse and monitor and power the system on,D I don't get any console output.  I get one beep (which, according toC the user guide is normal), the video works because I get the S3Trio F startup screen and I get the BIO startup but then the screen goes blueF and the sursor sits in the upper left corner blinking at me.  The diskD drives spin up but don't attempt to boot (no surprise, they're freshF drives I installed).  My thoughts are that the console variable is set@ to serial but I've hit return and used the keyboard while it wasE booting and it didn't re-direct the output to the graphics ports.  Is E there anything else I can do?  I've ordered a cable to connect to the F serial console (it's an MMJ) but it won't be here for 3 days or so andC I'm looking for something I can do in the meantime.  Thanks to all.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:50:36 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>$ Subject: Re: AlphaServer 800 Console+ Message-ID: <411040EC.B70DD1EB@comcast.net>    John Reinhardt wrote:  >  > Hello everyone,  > D >     I have recently come into possesion of a used AlphaServer 800.G > It's clean and, except for missing the top door which would cover the F > CD/floppy/control buttons, in very good shape.  My problem is this -H > after I hook up a keyboard, mouse and monitor and power the system on,F > I don't get any console output.  I get one beep (which, according toE > the user guide is normal), the video works because I get the S3Trio H > startup screen and I get the BIO startup but then the screen goes blueH > and the sursor sits in the upper left corner blinking at me.  The diskF > drives spin up but don't attempt to boot (no surprise, they're freshH > drives I installed).  My thoughts are that the console variable is setB > to serial but I've hit return and used the keyboard while it wasG > booting and it didn't re-direct the output to the graphics ports.  Is G > there anything else I can do?  I've ordered a cable to connect to the H > serial console (it's an MMJ) but it won't be here for 3 days or so andE > I'm looking for something I can do in the meantime.  Thanks to all.   H Think you'll have to wait for that cable. If CONSOLE is set to serial in+ SRM, it will expect to use the serial port.   G In the meantime, check the OpenVMS FAQ and other sources for the DEC423 E pinout for the MMJ jack. Get a standard 6-conductor (RJ12?) plug, and F snip off the tab and the hump it protudes from with a diagonal cutter,E *AFTER* crimping to the pinout. Remember to make the cable null-modem H ("crossover"). Put whatever you need on the other end (DB25, DB9, etc.).  : If you're impatient, may as well try it - can't hurt much.   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:32:44 -0400 2 From: John H. Reinhardt <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>$ Subject: Re: AlphaServer 800 Console8 Message-ID: <l5t0h09vk9aiv3g0cr7q823qmhavq6v1o7@4ax.com>  E Sorry. I should have posted this to comp.sys.dec instead.  I have now ' so please ignore this mistake.  Thanks.   < On 3 Aug 2004 14:01:58 -0700, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com (John Reinhardt) wrote:    >Hello everyone, > D >    I have recently come into possesion of a used AlphaServer 800. F >It's clean and, except for missing the top door which would cover theE >CD/floppy/control buttons, in very good shape.  My problem is this - G >after I hook up a keyboard, mouse and monitor and power the system on, E >I don't get any console output.  I get one beep (which, according to D >the user guide is normal), the video works because I get the S3TrioG >startup screen and I get the BIO startup but then the screen goes blue G >and the sursor sits in the upper left corner blinking at me.  The disk E >drives spin up but don't attempt to boot (no surprise, they're fresh G >drives I installed).  My thoughts are that the console variable is set A >to serial but I've hit return and used the keyboard while it was F >booting and it didn't re-direct the output to the graphics ports.  IsF >there anything else I can do?  I've ordered a cable to connect to theG >serial console (it's an MMJ) but it won't be here for 3 days or so and D >I'm looking for something I can do in the meantime.  Thanks to all.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:33:53 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>' Subject: BASIC debugging -- please help . Message-ID: <41103D01.15559.AC420CF@localhost>  C This is on VAX, V6.1.  Everything works until I exit the program.    Then I get:   & %STR-F-ILLSTRCLA, illegal string class9 break on unhandled exception preceding SHARE$BASRTL+28330  DBG> sh callF  module name     routine name                     line       rel PC     abs PC F  SHARE$BASRTL                                               00000000   00108AAA= ----- above condition handler called with exception 00248054: & %STR-F-ILLSTRCLA, illegal string class ----- end of exception messageF  SHARE$LIBRTL                                               00000000   000FE693  E This happens *after* the last statement is executed.  What gives?  I  D guess there was an error in SHARE$LIBRTL, but I have no way to know  what it was.  Or is there?  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 03:39:32 +0930 * From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au>A Subject: Re: Bind a socket to a low port number without privilege - Message-ID: <410fd4f1@duster.adelaide.on.net>    Jean-Franois Pironne wrote:  > Mark Daniel wrote: >  >> Craig A. Berry wrote: >>. >>> In article <410e8c8e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,9 >>>  "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> wrote:  >>>  >>> H >>>> You can't install shearable image with privileges (image activator  >>>> will drop >>>> all privileges). = >>>> For this you need to write a user writen system service.  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> H >>> Oops.  Thanks for the reminder.  The UWSS does seem like the robust  >>> way to go. >> >> >>J >> That wasn't exactly what I meant (though the post is poorly composed). C >> Obviously you can have a privileged image linked to and using a  @ >> shareable image, but from memory the shareable image must be I >> INSTALLed, not with privileges, just INSTALLed.  The executable image  H >> has the INSTALLed privileges and enables/disables them as required.  E >> Can VMS Perl easily access the $SETPRV service?  I agree with the  J >> general consensus that Perl is too big a bag of functionality to trust  >> any distance at all.  >  >  > Thanks to all. > G > Finally I have thought that the best solution is to write a simple C  I > program which just proxy port 25 to any other high number port, then I  ; > will setup the PERL program to read from this other port.   > That's a pragmatic and elegant solution that avoids the issue.  B > I would be great if it was possible to put an ACL on an IP port. > : > Anyway the progam work nicely, after a few running days: >  > SYSTEM Statistics 2 > ASSP Proxy Uptime:     1.007 days     4.312 days3 > Total SMTP Connections received:     243     1096 : > Total relay attempts rejected:     1 (0.4%)     2 (0.2%) > MESSAGE HANDLING Statistics F > Messages Processed:     240 (238.4 per day)     1037 (240.5 per day)! > Spams Rejected:     120     650 = > Spams passed-thru due to 'SPAMLOVER' exception:     0     0  > Local Mails:     0     2 > Viruses Blocked:     1     6 > Viruses Detected:     0     0 ! > Spam Bombs Blocked:     0     0 , > Mail From Whitelisted Senders:     0     4@ > Percentage of non-local mail that is spam:     49.8%     62.7% >  >  > Jean-Franois    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 14:29:41 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance 3 Message-ID: <y388I8c2gTXT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <410EE139.6E9DE3FB@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >>  8 >> Doesn't PIPE always/mostly creates temp files for the >> "piped" data ?  > 7 > Not to my knowledge, but how could one test for that?   " $ pipe show u | show log sys$pipe 6    "SYS$PIPE" = "_EISNER$MPA1287:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  B It uses the MP pseudo-device driver.  It's mostly like an ordinary@ mailbox.  The device driver does not (as far as I know -- though8 I cringe to think otherwise) make use of any disk files.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 14:52:29 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance 3 Message-ID: <KxtEWWtclsdo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <y388I8c2gTXT@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:b > In article <410EE139.6E9DE3FB@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >> Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: >>> 9 >>> Doesn't PIPE always/mostly creates temp files for the  >>> "piped" data ? >>  8 >> Not to my knowledge, but how could one test for that? > $ > $ pipe show u | show log sys$pipe 8 >    "SYS$PIPE" = "_EISNER$MPA1287:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) >  For completeness...    $ pipe show log sys$output | -+   ( type sys$pipe ; show log sys$pipe ) | -    type sys$pipe 6    "SYS$OUTPUT" = "_ALPHA$MPA127:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)4    "SYS$PIPE" = "_ALPHA$MPA127:" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  < So both reader and writer access the same named pipe device.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 23:32:57 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> % Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance ' Message-ID: <41100489.CC3EA618@aaa.com>    Bob Koehler wrote: > e > In article <410EA64E.69A2F6E9@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: 9 > > Doesn't PIPE always/mostly creates temp files for the  > > "piped" data ? > >  > H >    There was an implementation of PIPE for VMS 6 and earlier which didI >    just that.  The PIPE built into VMS since 7.0 does not use temporary G >    disk files, it uses a "pipe", which is basically a variaion on the  >    concept of a mailbox.   OK. H The O.P was talking of some 8Gb of data, right ? I would not expect PIPE9 to be the most efficient method to deal with that amount.   	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:20:31 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance + Message-ID: <cep6k3$mg0$1@news01.intel.com>    Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote:  E > I'm trying to run some software on an Alpha PWS600au VMS 7.2 system G > with the output piped into first a search command and then InfoZip to C > compress the results, without creating a large intermediate file. B > Later I can use pipe and unzip to decompress into further search2 > commands again without large intermediate files. > @ > The problem is that using the DCL Pipe command seems very slowH > compared to writing things to disk and reading back. I'd like to avoidD > the intermediate files being stored uncompressed as they can be asH > large as 5GB but even minimum compression with InfoZip reduces them by > better than 20:1.  > H > The examples below would perform a a very short run and seem to suffer" > very badly from the use of Pipe. >  > Is Pipe always slow? > Any Suggestions?   <snip>   Yep, don't use PIPE.  B PIPE does two undesirable things from a performance point of view:= it creates multiple subprocesses, something like one for each A "segment" in the pipe, and it uses mailboxes for transmitting the D data from one subprocess to the next, and those mailboxes, I believeA use the default device characteristics, i.e., they may be limited D to 1056 bytes or so (is it DEFMBXBUFQUO or DEFMBXMXMSG that controlsB this?).  In any case, is a small "pipe" (sorry for the pun) you're& trying to force a lot of data through.  A I tell our developers that PIPE is an aid for the programmer, not B the program.  You do NOT gain preformance, only your personal time= if this is a qucik one-off sort of thing.  If you need a more B permanent tool, and/or you intend to do this processing regularly,7 using temporary files is much more effcient and faster.   > BTW, I use PIPE all the time for simply stuff from the command< line.  However, I've made a rule (for myself and my team) to> NEVER use it in DCL procedures...especially stuff that runs in% batch serveral times a day or more...           Regards, Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:38:55 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance + Message-ID: <41103E2F.3EADFEAE@comcast.net>    Ken Fairfield wrote: >  > Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote: > G > > I'm trying to run some software on an Alpha PWS600au VMS 7.2 system I > > with the output piped into first a search command and then InfoZip to E > > compress the results, without creating a large intermediate file. D > > Later I can use pipe and unzip to decompress into further search4 > > commands again without large intermediate files. > > B > > The problem is that using the DCL Pipe command seems very slowJ > > compared to writing things to disk and reading back. I'd like to avoidF > > the intermediate files being stored uncompressed as they can be asJ > > large as 5GB but even minimum compression with InfoZip reduces them by > > better than 20:1.  > > J > > The examples below would perform a a very short run and seem to suffer$ > > very badly from the use of Pipe. > >  > > Is Pipe always slow? > > Any Suggestions? >  > <snip> >  > Yep, don't use PIPE. > D > PIPE does two undesirable things from a performance point of view:? > it creates multiple subprocesses, something like one for each C > "segment" in the pipe, and it uses mailboxes for transmitting the F > data from one subprocess to the next, and those mailboxes, I believeC > use the default device characteristics, i.e., they may be limited F > to 1056 bytes or so (is it DEFMBXBUFQUO or DEFMBXMXMSG that controls
 > this?).   @ For MBA devices, yeah - I'd expect. Not sure about MPAs (pipes).  ; > In any case, is a small "pipe" (sorry for the pun) you're ( > trying to force a lot of data through. > C > I tell our developers that PIPE is an aid for the programmer, not D > the program.  You do NOT gain preformance, only your personal time? > if this is a qucik one-off sort of thing.  If you need a more D > permanent tool, and/or you intend to do this processing regularly,9 > using temporary files is much more effcient and faster.  > @ > BTW, I use PIPE all the time for simply stuff from the command> > line.  However, I've made a rule (for myself and my team) to@ > NEVER use it in DCL procedures...especially stuff that runs in' > batch serveral times a day or more...    If you look at: . http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/vmspipe.zip  B ..., you'll see the product of my efforts to build "pipe lines" onF OpenVMS-VAX V5.5-2. The problem was that I needed to process more dataH than I had freespace on disk. So, I put some programs together to createE permanent mailboxes, used DEFINEs and SPAWN/NOWAITs strategically and E hooked together some of my code and CONVERT/FDL to convert multi-GB's @ worth of data from dd-format ASCII on 8mm (from AIX machines) toD ANSI-labelled EBCDIC on 9-track tape (for IBM mainframe) without the need for intermediate files.   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 19:26:29 -0700  From: JBloggs@acme.com% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance 8 Message-ID: <cph0h05h1j71bgjpro2i9rq9ahq97fckd1@4ax.com>  5 On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:22:55 +0100, Tim ffrench-Lynch 4 <tim-DOT-ffrench-HYPHEN-lynch@baesystems.com> wrote:  D >I'm trying to run some software on an Alpha PWS600au VMS 7.2 systemF >with the output piped into first a search command and then InfoZip toB >compress the results, without creating a large intermediate file.A >Later I can use pipe and unzip to decompress into further search 1 >commands again without large intermediate files.  > ? >The problem is that using the DCL Pipe command seems very slow G >compared to writing things to disk and reading back. I'd like to avoid C >the intermediate files being stored uncompressed as they can be as G >large as 5GB but even minimum compression with InfoZip reduces them by  >better than 20:1.  F let alone PIPE,  you might need to also watch out for the files > 4gb.3 owing to signed/unsigned issues integral to infoZip ) (and perhaps >2gb on compressed output)     E there are some (beta) InfoZip versions available that'll handle both. D (google should be your friend here, Zip 2.4h, Unzip 5.51f, or later)  4 [future InfoZIp versions 3+ promise to settle these C  32 bit limitations. iirc.  I haven't  checked for v3 betas in the    past few weeks/months)   ; inre usage of temp-files, your best bet, (if you can do so) < is to arrange for ample scratch space that you can point to  via "sys$scratch:"    7 Best-World performance, might involve a dedicated disk  > (physical, or perhaps, virtual (LDAn:, or VDan:), and playing B with process RMS params,  SET RMS/SEQ/BLOCK=64/BUFF=128/EXT=nnnnn"  E that,  XFC if enabled  (and ample memory) will help you on the reads.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 15:33:14 -0700 & From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) Subject: Re: DS10 questions = Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0408031433.635cc0c0@posting.google.com>   j tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) wrote in message news:<ea44f5a1.0408030926.3debb6f3@posting.google.com>...F > We just got a new DS10 server but we have not been able to get it to > boot.  > F > We wanted it to come in the door configured to be a workstation, butC > the graphics card was omitted.   HP sent us a 3X-DEPVZ-AA that we  > installed. > E > First I connected to an old VRT17-HA monitor and tried to boot. (Or E > new monitor has not arrived yet.)  I got nothing but a blue screen.  > G > Then I tried hooking a dumb terminal to the 25-pin RS232 port.  I got  > a backwards question mark. > H > I am not sure what to do.  I have never had to boot a pure server withC > a dumb terminal, but I know it can be done.  Of course, I am only B > trying to boot dumb because the graphics card is not working - IE > figured I might learn something about the status of the system if I " > could boot from a dumb terminal. > D > The DS10 is running VMS 7.3.2 with the Graphics 0200 patch already6 > installed.  Is there some other patch we might need? > F > According to the graphics card installation guide, there is a jumper8 > to enable/disable VGA.  Where should I put the jumper? > D > Is the 25-pin connector the right place to connect a dump terminalG > console?  What is the baud rate?  Do I just need pins 2,3,7 connected G > to pins 2,3,7 direct or do I need to connected pin 2 to 3 and 3 to 2?  > G > Does the fact that we have the graphics card installed cause the dumb E > terminal console to stop working?  Do I need to remove the graphics 0 > card to get the dumb terminal console to work?    E If you have a keyboard plugged in to the PS2 port, it will default to B graphics mode, though I think you can override that with a consoleA variable.  Did you have a compatible keyboard plugged in?  Mouse?   D The 25 pin port on the back is a parallel printer port.  You need toC use one of the 9-pin ports; pretty sure its the upper one.  Default B settings on that port will be 9600 baud, No parity, 8 bits data, 1C stop bit.  I don't have a 9-pin pinout handy, but using a DEC VTxxx @ terminal all you should need is transmit data, receive data, andF signal ground.  If you have a bog standard PC serial modem cable, pinsB 2, 3, and 7 on the 25 pin end will correspond to those.  However aE modem cable will probably need a null modem adapter (crosses 2 and 3) 9 in order to work with a terminal (DCE versus DTE pinout).   E If there is only one graphics card, you should normally have VGA mode ? enabled.  I'm pretty sure the 'console' mode uses the VGA mode.    Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:45:16 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: DS10 questions + Message-ID: <41103FAC.A6CFBC82@comcast.net>    Tom Adams wrote: > F > We just got a new DS10 server but we have not been able to get it to > boot.  > F > We wanted it to come in the door configured to be a workstation, butC > the graphics card was omitted.   HP sent us a 3X-DEPVZ-AA that we  > installed. > E > First I connected to an old VRT17-HA monitor and tried to boot. (Or E > new monitor has not arrived yet.)  I got nothing but a blue screen.   G Well, right there you know it got far enough to recognize and init. the D graphics card. You may need to wait a considerable period before theB countdown appears - dunno, just going by my AlphaStation 200 4/233$ before I took out the Number-9 card.  G > Then I tried hooking a dumb terminal to the 25-pin RS232 port.  I got  > a backwards question mark.  H 25-pin port is parallel printer. The DB-9s are async. serial, 9600 baud,F 8 bits, no parity, one stop bit. If there's two, not sure which is the "COM1" port, check the doc.'s.   > [snip]F > According to the graphics card installation guide, there is a jumper8 > to enable/disable VGA.  Where should I put the jumper?  E Used to was that the DS10 doc. was on-line for download, if you don't ( have it. Dunno if its still available...  G > Does the fact that we have the graphics card installed cause the dumb $ > terminal console to stop working?   E No, however if you don't have a keyboard (at least) connected, it may G switch to the serial console on its own. It may also require the mouse.   Again, dunno - check the doc.'s.  " > Do I need to remove the graphics0 > card to get the dumb terminal console to work?   Don't think so...    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 19:32:43 -0700  From: Z <z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: DS10 questions 0 Message-ID: <10h0im43hnlh213@corp.supernews.com>   Tom Adams wrote:E > First I connected to an old VRT17-HA monitor and tried to boot. (Or E > new monitor has not arrived yet.)  I got nothing but a blue screen.   7 Connect a keyboard ... press ENTER ... do you get you a   >>> prompt on the monitor?    If so, type >>> SHOW CONSOLE   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:11:57 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.orgA Subject: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem? ) Message-ID: <04080317115767@antinode.org>   H    When I just searched DECC_INCLUDE:*.h for something, I got a bunch ofA "-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation" H complaints.  It appears that some recent change provided some new header. file with excessively restrictive protections:  5 Directory SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]   F GLOB.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:10.57  (RWED,RWED,RE,)F POLL.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:15.55  (RWED,RWED,RE,)F SIGINFO.H;1               17   8-MAY-2004 22:49:16.79  (RWED,RWED,RE,)F STATVFS.H;1                5   8-MAY-2004 22:49:17.64  (RWED,RWED,RE,)  D    The file dates suggest that it was VMS731_ACRTL V3.0.  (I must beH compiling too much stuff as SYSTEM, or I'd have run into it earlier.  Is this old news?)   E    I'm all for new header files, but shouldn't everyone be allowed to F read them without operator intervention?  It's easy enough to fix, but still annoying.   <    For those who don't define it, the handy logical name is:   alp $ sho log decc_includeT    "DECC_INCLUDE" = "SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)9         = "SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.SYS$STARLET_C]"   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:57:58 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>E Subject: Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem? + Message-ID: <411042A6.9CBEC58A@comcast.net>    sms@antinode.org wrote:  > J >    When I just searched DECC_INCLUDE:*.h for something, I got a bunch ofC > "-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation" J > complaints.  It appears that some recent change provided some new header0 > file with excessively restrictive protections: > 7 > Directory SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]  > H > GLOB.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:10.57  (RWED,RWED,RE,)H > POLL.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:15.55  (RWED,RWED,RE,)H > SIGINFO.H;1               17   8-MAY-2004 22:49:16.79  (RWED,RWED,RE,)H > STATVFS.H;1                5   8-MAY-2004 22:49:17.64  (RWED,RWED,RE,) > F >    The file dates suggest that it was VMS731_ACRTL V3.0.  (I must beJ > compiling too much stuff as SYSTEM, or I'd have run into it earlier.  Is > this old news?)  > G >    I'm all for new header files, but shouldn't everyone be allowed to H > read them without operator intervention?  It's easy enough to fix, but > still annoying.  > > >    For those who don't define it, the handy logical name is: >  > alp $ sho log decc_includeV >    "DECC_INCLUDE" = "SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE); >         = "SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.SYS$STARLET_C]"   E I dont write C myself, but I thought the current C compiler pulled in F the modules from a text library at compile time, and that the files inH the directory tree were just an optional convenience for reviewing, etc.  F If that's the case, then just fix the protection on the library (might2 be SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$INCLUDE.TLB - dunno for sure).   I have:    $ cc/vers nla0: * Compaq C V6.4-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2   $ ...installed here. Check this out...   $ dir sys$share:DECC*    Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]   > DECC$CRTL.EXE;1           34/72       30-APR-2001 15:08:12.03  (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) > DECC$CRTL.OLB;1        11880/11940    30-APR-2001 15:08:12.25  (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) > DECC$CRTL.README;1        43/72        8-SEP-1999 16:14:21.04  (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) > DECC$RTLDEF.TLB;1       1361/1380     26-APR-2001 02:46:59.26  (RWED,RWED,RWED,RE) > DECC$SHR.EXE;1          3880/3880      5-AUG-2001 00:49:01.51  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)   % Total of 5 files, 17198/17344 blocks.   C For what little it may be worth... I know you don't like reading myt posts, but just trying to help.a   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:42:10 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.orgE Subject: Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem?l) Message-ID: <04080323421026@antinode.org>i  2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  9 > > Directory SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]C > > J > > GLOB.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:10.57  (RWED,RWED,RE,)J > > POLL.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:15.55  (RWED,RWED,RE,)J > > SIGINFO.H;1               17   8-MAY-2004 22:49:16.79  (RWED,RWED,RE,)J > > STATVFS.H;1                5   8-MAY-2004 22:49:17.64  (RWED,RWED,RE,) > > C > >    The file dates suggest that it was VMS731_ACRTL V3.0.  [...]   G > I dont write C myself, but I thought the current C compiler pulled inPH > the modules from a text library at compile time, and that the files inJ > the directory tree were just an optional convenience for reviewing, etc.  ?    I do, it does, they are, and that's what I was trying to do.y  H > If that's the case, then just fix the protection on the library (might4 > be SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$INCLUDE.TLB - dunno for sure).  G    I've noticed nothing wrong with the .TLB (or older loose .h files). kF I just hate to pass up an opportunity to complain about free software.   > $ cc/vers nla0:e  1    You don't need a file name ("nla0:") nowadays:-  
 alp $ cc /ver-) Compaq C V6.5-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1-  E > For what little it may be worth... I know you don't like reading my(! > posts, but just trying to help.v  H    I don't like reading the ones which are complete wastes of space, butE you've been pretty good lately, especially when compared with all thedG "Touch Screen Voting systems" junk, which, as others have already noted,> is far off topic, and has been covered with far more wisdom in comp.risks, among other places.o  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orge    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:50:44 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>E Subject: Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem?05 Message-ID: <1040804004122.7326B-100000@Ives.egh.com>   * On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 sms@antinode.org wrote:  J >    When I just searched DECC_INCLUDE:*.h for something, I got a bunch ofC > "-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation"dJ > complaints.  It appears that some recent change provided some new header0 > file with excessively restrictive protections: > 7 > Directory SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]  > H > GLOB.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:10.57  (RWED,RWED,RE,)H > POLL.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:15.55  (RWED,RWED,RE,)H > SIGINFO.H;1               17   8-MAY-2004 22:49:16.79  (RWED,RWED,RE,)H > STATVFS.H;1                5   8-MAY-2004 22:49:17.64  (RWED,RWED,RE,) > F >    The file dates suggest that it was VMS731_ACRTL V3.0.  (I must beJ > compiling too much stuff as SYSTEM, or I'd have run into it earlier.  Is > this old news?)r  F The compiler doesn't use these files; they are for reference purposes.E The compiler uses the text library DECC$RTLDEF.TLB (and SYS$LIB_C.TLBnD and SYS$STARLET_C.TLB for VMS library and system routines) which are> W:RE (at least on my system), so you probably wouldn't notice.   > G >    I'm all for new header files, but shouldn't everyone be allowed to)H > read them without operator intervention?  It's easy enough to fix, but > still annoying.<  A I think the header files exist solely so you can look at them and0; very the argument orders and types, etc. and compare to thecB equivalent routines on other systems.  But I don't know any reason; why anyone shouldn't be able to look at them.  A completelyh@ unprivileged user could always use the librarian to extract them= from the text libraries.  So this must be a bug in the patch.    > > >    For those who don't define it, the handy logical name is: >  > alp $ sho log decc_includeV >    "DECC_INCLUDE" = "SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE); >         = "SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.SYS$STARLET_C]"t > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgc >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547g >  >    -- 7 John Santose Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:57:37 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>E Subject: Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem?.5 Message-ID: <1040804005608.7326C-100000@Ives.egh.com>r  & On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, John Santos wrote:  C > I think the header files exist solely so you can look at them andI= > very the argument orders and types, etc. and compare to the 
   ^^^^ verify   : (So you can avoid varying the argument order and types :-)   -- n John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:19:39 +0200t0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>" Subject: Re: Solaris to Itanium...B Message-ID: <410fe54b$0$28850$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   Keith Parris wrote:- <SNIP>A > Paul, could you provide a reference? In a Google search on "Bobc4 > Caldwell" and "Itanium" I found only this article:A > http://www.computer.org/computer/homepage/0104/random/index.htm  >  <SNIP>  	 Hi Keith,   E you wil find a reference in COV to the Seminar by Bob Colwell here...n  d http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=NCM%25b.37415%24Qg7.9591%40news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com  $ The video is still available here...  F http://stanford-online.stanford.edu/courses/ee380/040218-ee380-100.asx   Cheers!u   Keithg   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:24:44 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Somebody at HP is listening at last, Message-ID: <vu-dnf60E8Mig43cRVn-qg@igs.net>  9 I received an e-mail from HP about the following today...t  G http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/ne/ne_EventDetail_IDX/1,1394,760,00.htmly  B Attention OpenVMS, VAX and Alpha Developers!  Learn about the bestI practices, tips and tricks for porting and migrating your applications to I the Itanium hardware platform.  HP's technical experts have contributed a H list of ideas to help you streamline your porting and migration efforts.  L Areas addressed will include the build environment, compiler usage, floatingA point, setting quotas, debugging, and deployment of the solution.u      J These ideas will be presented by John Egolf via webcast on Tuesday, August5 17, 2004 at 9:00 am PST/ 12:00 noon EST / 5:00 pm GMT1  F Webcast is available via dial-in or streaming media (to avoid any long) distance charges from outside N. America)o+ -------------------------------------------e    L At long last I can say....Thank you HP for using the net to deliver materialC like this. I will probably even get some unix weenies to listen in.u  K Now that you are listening.....we (c.o.v.) have some ideas for ways to helps market and advertise VMS......   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:01:49 GMTg. From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>H Subject: Re: Structure of SMTP Receiver - simple spam and content filter+ Message-ID: <13TPc.24741$hw6.3802@edtnps84>r  I show did you reconfigure TCPIP to make this work with the perl scripts inI the middle.   * <jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message, news:cedn2m$jbn$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr... > JF Mezei wrote:t > > Jeff Morgan wrote: > > H > >>TEC runs every 60 seconds in a batch que and checks the que for jobs waitingIJ > >>to be tested. If it approves the content inside the message, it simplyI > >>reques the job to a new SMTP server que called TCPIP$APPROVED that isi alwaysK > >>started. These emails then get immediately delivered just like a normalO# > >>TCP/IP Services configuration..e > >  > >e > >sJ > > Very interesting concept. If you converted your program to a symbiont, itI > > could then function even more rapidly on emails. Advantage is that it  wouldn0 > > also scan outbound and intra-company emails. >i@ > I am currently playing with ASSP (Anti-Spam SMTP Proxy Server, > http://assp.sourceforge.net/)" >P > Run fine on my VMS box.  >e > Another JF >    ------------------------------    Date: 03 Aug 2004 14:59:17 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>e( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems. Message-ID: <mddvfg0yrne.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  * David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   > Charlie Hammond wrote:  0 >> In article <410EEB0C.6010102@tsoft-inc.com>, - >> David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   L >>> When the computer displays the voter's entries, as seperate data, then ID >>> really cannot see the voter doubting what the computer recorded.  I >> I suspect that almost everyone who reads this newgroup would find it ae@ >> trivial exercise to write a probram (even in DCL!) that would  / >>     (1) Read user input -- such as "a vote".t& >>     (2) Display whatever was input.$ >>     (3) Print whatever was input.A >>     (3) Write something entirely different in a file/database.i   > Very true.  L > But you're then suggesting that a computerized voting system would be wideK > open to hackers and such.  A recent post by Keith Cayemberg suggests thatiL > lottery systems exist in a potentially hostile environment, but seem to beO > able to resist many of the problems you're saying would exist in computerizeda	 > voting.   K In this context, "hackers" are a red herring.  The real issue is with fraudwL perpetrated by those running the elections, with or without the collusion ofN those providing the machines.  There is, quite simply, no audit trail on theseL machines which would allow for a re-count should allegations of irregularity arise.  K > I think my biggest problem with some of the posts in this thread is those-K > from people who's job is to find solutions to problems claiming that thise, > particular problem has no valid solutions.  L There are valid solutions.  However, the manufacturers of the voting systemsM refuse to implement them, and (some of) the buyers of these systems are happy O with that state of affairs, while others are simply too technically unsophisti-AL cated to do other than trust the vendors' assurances that "nothing like that can go wrong".  O So forget about "hackers", and worry about the problem of irreproducible voting0 results instead.   -- bL Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:01:22 -04000 From: "Glen Thompson" <glen.thompson@cox.netnet>( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems. Message-ID: <KzWPc.24120$cv5.12656@lakeread07>  G How about a system that uses the screen for the transaction, then after-E the voter confirms their vote, prints their vote on a receipt printeraG with a carbon copy.  Copy is spooled up inside the machine, voter takesoE printed receipt, verifies it, and drops it in secured box on way out.n@ In the event of  a recount, both paper copies can be compared in separate recounts.   glen  @ "Rich Alderson" <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote in message( news:mddvfg0yrne.fsf@panix5.panix.com..., > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >e > > Charlie Hammond wrote: >o1 > >> In article <410EEB0C.6010102@tsoft-inc.com>,r/ > >> David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:i > G > >>> When the computer displays the voter's entries, as seperate data,o then IF > >>> really cannot see the voter doubting what the computer recorded. > F > >> I suspect that almost everyone who reads this newgroup would find it aB > >> trivial exercise to write a probram (even in DCL!) that would >r1 > >>     (1) Read user input -- such as "a vote".i( > >>     (2) Display whatever was input.& > >>     (3) Print whatever was input.C > >>     (3) Write something entirely different in a file/database.y >c > > Very true. >vF > > But you're then suggesting that a computerized voting system would be widetH > > open to hackers and such.  A recent post by Keith Cayemberg suggests thatH > > lottery systems exist in a potentially hostile environment, but seem to behD > > able to resist many of the problems you're saying would exist in computerized > > voting.r > G > In this context, "hackers" are a red herring.  The real issue is witho fraud A > perpetrated by those running the elections, with or without the  collusion ofG > those providing the machines.  There is, quite simply, no audit trailS on theseA > machines which would allow for a re-count should allegations ofC irregularity > arise. >3G > > I think my biggest problem with some of the posts in this thread is  those H > > from people who's job is to find solutions to problems claiming that this. > > particular problem has no valid solutions. > F > There are valid solutions.  However, the manufacturers of the voting systems0E > refuse to implement them, and (some of) the buyers of these systems 	 are happymE > with that state of affairs, while others are simply too technically  unsophisti-oD > cated to do other than trust the vendors' assurances that "nothing	 like that- > can go wrong". >-; > So forget about "hackers", and worry about the problem ofm irreproducible votingR > results instead. >a   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 19:24:12 -0700c. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0408031824.338dcf91@posting.google.com>l  O david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<ceoile$q6d$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>...wY > In article <410FAADD.4020602@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:M > >Charlie Hammond wrote:) > >t2 > >> In article <410EEB0C.6010102@tsoft-inc.com>, / > >> David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:t > >> r > >> nU > >>>When the computer displays the voter's entries, as seperate data, then I really  > > >>>cannot see the voter doubting what the computer recorded. > >>>r > >> gK > >> I suspect that almost everyone who reads this newgroup would find it atB > >> trivial exercise to write a probram (even in DCL!) that would > >> o1 > >>     (1) Read user input -- such as "a vote". ( > >>     (2) Display whatever was input.& > >>     (3) Print whatever was input.C > >>     (3) Write something entirely different in a file/database.a > >> o > >> e > >t
 > >Very true.h > >>S > >But you're then suggesting that a computerized voting system would be wide open  P > >to hackers and such.  A recent post by Keith Cayemberg suggests that lottery N > >systems exist in a potentially hostile environment, but seem to be able to P > >resist many of the problems you're saying would exist in computerized voting. > >1 > I > All the lottery systems I know of fundamentally rely on a paper system. J > In order to claim the prize you have to have the printed lottery ticket.O > (There is usually provision for a discretionary payment if you have lost yourrJ > ticket but you would need to be very convincing as to where and when you4 > purchased it to get the prize without the ticket). > N > When you pay your money you get your numbers which you can verify since they  > are printed out on the ticket.K > True there is still a chance that the numbers were not transmitted to theh > lottery backend system. N > In that case you are probably out of luck - when you win you can try sueing I > the shop owner but you probably won't have much luck sueing the Lottery  > operator.e  F The lottery is different enough from an election that I don't think itE has a lot of relevance. The winning number is picked "at random" by aID large transparent device in which various balls with various numbersC in various clear chambers are mixed around by flowing air. A person E then pushes a button or a lever or whatever and it allows one ball toeD slide up a tube and that is how each number is picked. The drawings,E at least the ones I'm aware of, are televised for anyone to see. Theyu> are observed by some accounting firm or whatever. This is doneF separately from the computer! Elections don't have anything like this.C Also, with elections, you have to have registration lists and watch D for duplicate votes, neither of which is a problem with lotteries. AD lottery player can buy as many tickets as he has money for. Sign the back, and it's yours!d  @ In elections you have to trust that totals for each candidate orE proposition are fairly tallied and properly added in some centralizeds> place. I would trust the lottery system much more than currentC electronic voting. With the lottery you can see your own ticket andlE the drawing. And I have never heard of a dispute over the validity ofdD a lottery ticket for a sizable sum of money. They seem to run pretty	 smoothly.>  E But as a voter, with computer voting, all you see is some images on arC screen. There could be a paper trail, but then why not just vote byeD paper in the first place (half-serious remark)! How can anyone trustE what happens after that?Especially if the computers are on a network!,F It seems to me that it would be very hard to keep the election totally? fair. You'd at least need something like the supposedly extremea9 rigourous regulations that rule casino gambling machines.f  A In elections the totals must be accurate and everyone's vote mustoE count, but it doesn't matter to whom each vote belongs as long as the.B totals are accurate. In lotteries only winning tickets and who hasE them matters. The total number of tickets is not important. Different/	 problems.n  D While no voting system is perfect, it seems to me that computers are* one of the worst ways to go for elections.  C OTOH, perhaps if the computers were used on locally at each polling D place and the totals were sent to various centralized places as theyF are now? That might work, except that as a voter you still have no wayE to know what is really happening in the computer. Especially if it isf a Windows machine!   JMHO    - > In the UK Camelot has the following rule :-d > L > "The promoter accepts no responsibility for the entries on the face of theL > ticket differing from the entries on Camelot Group plc's central computer" >  > P > In a lottery the main focus is on preventing someone wrongly claiming a prize.P > If someone misses out on a prize they were really entitled to then thats theirR > bad luck (Though the operator will try and minimise the chance of that happeningL > since they don't want bad publicity they can't guarantee it won't happen). > O > In an election everybody's vote should be counted equally and there should beoL > no possibilty that what is on the "central computer" is not what the voterM > intended (ie not what was printed on the screen or on a paper receipt which 4 > the user was able to view to validate their vote). >  >  > David Webb > Security Team Leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  > R > >I think my biggest problem with some of the posts in this thread is those from S > >people who's job is to find solutions to problems claiming that this particular e" > >problem has no valid solutions. > >  > >Dave  > >  > >-- 7 > >David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450 7 > >Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596hA > >DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.como > >170 Grimplin Road > >Vanderbilt, PA  15486 > >t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:27:06 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems, Message-ID: <oaudnc72P7wTyo3cRVn-pw@igs.net>   Dave Baxter wrote:< > It is obvious to any sane person that having a non-biased,F > non-sentient computer add up the votes is more objective than havingC > it done by carbon-based ape-descendents who may or may not have aoD > vested interest in the outcome (e.g. the female Secretary of StateD > from Florida, (Kathleen ?) who coincidentally ended as a member ofF > Gdubya's administration).    You tell me, would you rather have your? > pay (and the pay of the other 10,000 people who work for yourdG > company), calculated by a person sitting in a cubicle with a stack ofnA > paper pads and pencils, particularly if that person might be on G > drugs/alchohol, have a terminal illness or a recently deceased friende > or family member.tG >     It is fairly obvious to me that most people would rather leave itsE > to a computer, and in almost every other walk of life are perfectlyvF > happy to, even when the computer in question has the power to have aE > much more direct detrimental effect on the individual's life than ae > voting machine.I >dB >     It seems to me that the political parties also have a vested? > interest in maintaining clearly designated areas of doubt and F > uncertainty.   (again, take Florida as an example), if the result ofC > the vote is "absolute" then how can you dispute the fact that youN > don't like the result.C >      The primary argument I hear put forward against computerized.D > voting systems is "How can you do a re-count??"    This is clearlyF > based on the assumption that the system is inherently unreliable andH > therefore we must be able to verify it by use of an even less reliableF > method, which then reopens the door to the "clearly designated areas1 > of doubt and uncertainty".    Square One again.rG >      The real question is not whether Computerized Voting systems arepA > reliable, it is more like,  are they more reliable than people?e >tF >      The poster before me mentioned the obvious solution.   Create aG > paper trail.    Have the system generate a hard copy receipt, in fact G > create two.   The receipt is checked by the voter, and he retains one H > copy.   The other copy is placed in a regular ballot box, for use onlyE > in the event of a recount.   This second copy could have the votingtD > information stored in a barcode perhaps so that a recount could beG > carried out by an independent system just scanning these barcodes and  > generating a new total.i > H >      It is clear that a little thought and consideration could produceD > a secure, reliable and efficient system (probably not on windows),G > (try OpenVMS)with as many safeguards and backups to meet any level ofi
 > (b)anality.. >," >      Don't let the Ludites win!! >3 > Dave. Baxter    C It isn't a matter of being a Luddite or not...it's about accuratelyn? recording the vote and not disenfranchising any eligible voter.r  K In Canada, paper ballots are used - voters are given one ballot and go to acL screened off area, put a big X or check mark in a big open circle beside theJ name of the candidate they want to vote for. The ballot is then folded andH taken by the voter to the ballot box. If they screw their ballot up, theL voter can request that it be destroyed in their presence and a second ballot form will be given to them.   F The final results are hand counted at each polling station by numerousJ people from Elections Canada staff and are scrutineered by representativesH of each political party as the count is being done. The results for eachL polling station are typically known within 20 minutes of the polling stationK closing. Add another 10 minutes or so for all the polls in a given districttI to report to the central election official and the final result is known.r  J I don't know for certain, but I believe that the cast ballots are saved in, locked boxes for 2 years after the election.  % It's all very effective and low cost.r   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 12:56:31 -0700o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package? < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408031156.ac2627d@posting.google.com>  _ "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> wrote in message news:<2n9h2kFs8q7tU1@uni-berlin.de>...o* > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> ...> > > they don't own it ... its the bsd kernel ... its just like< > > apache and everything else they have, it is unix garbage >  .../ > > hopefully someday someone buys vms and thena: > > throws out apache and ucx and incorporates TCPware and7 > > purveyor into vms, then that would be something ...d > : > As you are probably aware, lots of parts of MultiNet got7 > incorporated into TCPware beginning with version 5.5.l > How's that for Unix garbage? >  > cu, 
 >   Martin  < but it still all runs under the vms kernel ... take that! :)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 12:59:39 -0700s( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?e= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408031159.6a6dd0ce@posting.google.com>   h Brian Hechinger <wonko@4amlunch.net> wrote in message news:<20040803144249.GE14217@ford.4amlunch.net>...D > On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 03:55:11PM +0200, Martin Vorlaender wrote: > > L > > I apologize for not being able to resist. In fact, I do like the ProcessD > > TCP/IP stacks (a lot better than UCX heir). It's just that Bob'sK > > "everything's *ix is crap - TCPware and Purveyor are the only answer totO > > all our problems" attitude upsets me every time - even though I prefer VMS.i > O > i have to back you up there martin.  i have been using *nix for over 12 years,P > now, and it is not crap.  windows is crap.  i mean, come on, they took a bunchP > of vms and managed to ruin it.  linux is not *nix btw as far as i'm concerned. >  > -brian  4 unix is convuluted and cannot do half the things vms2 can do, that means security and clustering too ...3 when DEC engineers designed vms, unix was there andd7 they learned from all its shortcomings, thank goodness!c   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 13:03:00 -0700-( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?@= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408031203.481c9883@posting.google.com>A  _ "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> wrote in message news:<2n9jq8Fu6416U1@uni-berlin.de>...e > > > = > > >As you are probably aware, lots of parts of MultiNet gotc: > > >incorporated into TCPware beginning with version 5.5.! > > >How's that for Unix garbage?  > >wL > > But fundamentally, the TCPware kernel is still a different creature than > > the MultiNet kernel. > @ > Of course it is, on the kernel level. But on the layers above,  > it's Unix garbage all over ;-) > J > I apologize for not being able to resist. In fact, I do like the ProcessB > TCP/IP stacks (a lot better than UCX heir). It's just that Bob'sI > "everything's *ix is crap - TCPware and Purveyor are the only answer toiM > all our problems" attitude upsets me every time - even though I prefer VMS.s >  > cu, 
 >   Martin  6 and what is unix solution for security and clustering?7 they couldn't steal vms security so they tried to stealt1 its clustering, and they still can't match it! :)    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 13:04:20 -0700e( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408031204.3e0733be@posting.google.com>e  o Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote in message news:<6.0.0.22.2.20040803072648.023ab248@raptor.psccos.com>... 0 > At 07:08 AM 8/3/2004, Martin Vorlaender wrote:+ > >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> ...c@ > > > they don't own it ... its the bsd kernel ... its just like> > > > apache and everything else they have, it is unix garbage >  ...1 > > > hopefully someday someone buys vms and thena< > > > throws out apache and ucx and incorporates TCPware and9 > > > purveyor into vms, then that would be something ...0 > > ; > >As you are probably aware, lots of parts of MultiNet gotD8 > >incorporated into TCPware beginning with version 5.5. > >How's that for Unix garbage?R > J > But fundamentally, the TCPware kernel is still a different creature than > the MultiNet kernel. >  > ------L > +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+L > | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |L > | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |L > | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |L > | http://www.process.com        |                                        |L > +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+  @ and it also is a different creature on the performance level! :)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2004 16:46:56 -0700t( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?M= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408031546.19cfdde0@posting.google.com>   _ "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> wrote in message news:<2n9jq8Fu6416U1@uni-berlin.de>... ' > "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> ...  > > L > > But fundamentally, the TCPware kernel is still a different creature than > > the MultiNet kernel. > @ > Of course it is, on the kernel level. But on the layers above,  > it's Unix garbage all over ;-) > J > I apologize for not being able to resist. In fact, I do like the ProcessB > TCP/IP stacks (a lot better than UCX heir). It's just that Bob'sI > "everything's *ix is crap - TCPware and Purveyor are the only answer to:M > all our problems" attitude upsets me every time - even though I prefer VMS.E >  > cu,L
 >   Martin  5 I didn't say that they were the only answers, but theY2 best answers ... if you love vms so much, then why% does it bother you to hear the truth?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:05:52 -0500k2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?-* Message-ID: <4110366F.4C4F0B8@comcast.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:a > a > "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> wrote in message news:<2n9jq8Fu6416U1@uni-berlin.de>...e) > > "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> ...  > > >nN > > > But fundamentally, the TCPware kernel is still a different creature than > > > the MultiNet kernel. > >,B > > Of course it is, on the kernel level. But on the layers above," > > it's Unix garbage all over ;-) > >vL > > I apologize for not being able to resist. In fact, I do like the ProcessD > > TCP/IP stacks (a lot better than UCX heir). It's just that Bob'sK > > "everything's *ix is crap - TCPware and Purveyor are the only answer to O > > all our problems" attitude upsets me every time - even though I prefer VMS.  > >  > > cu,Y > >   Martin > 7 > I didn't say that they were the only answers, but the24 > best answers ... if you love vms so much, then why' > does it bother you to hear the truth?.  = Hearing it (occasionally) is one thing - being constantly andu; mercilessly brow-beaten with it is something else entirely.f  : Take a blood pressure pill and go lie down - give it rest!   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:24:50 -0400i2 From: John H. Reinhardt <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?e8 Message-ID: <eos0h0hb51v8dpvshv72kg36p5qrd9dcfv@4ax.com>  C Thanks for everyone's postings.  It has been informative.  I didn't$D beam to stir up an IP stack feud though.  lol  I guess I should have@ elaborated a little more in the question.  I am not a VMS newbie? having worked with it since 1981 when my college got it's first B VAX-11/780. But, like Rich Jordan, I have only previous experienceB with UCX/TCPIP since the places I have been have not opted for theD extra cost to go with another's IP package - except for one that ranA Wollengong on their VAX 7620's.  Now that I finally have some VMSCC capable machines at home and the Hobbyist program to give me a freeYD choice in packages I was just looking for some opinions.  EspeciallyC since I agree with the several that mentioned that UCX/TCPIP's userRB interface isn't the best or the most VMS-like.  I also am not sureD that the "U*nx is crap!" contingent is totally correct as the use ofC the Tru-64 IP kernal I think was in general an good upgrade for the,E old UCX package.  However... VMS RULES!!! and it's good to be gettingR? back to a real OS after so much time in the U*nx/Windows world. C Thanks again for all of the input.  I intend to be more active heret* and hopefully I can even help on occasion.   P.S.F   Since none of these packages seem to have a killer flaw, I think I'm9 going to go with TCPware and see how that works since the B documentation seems to be pretty good and the user interface isn't bad.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 23:10:50 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>D; Subject: Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?4, Message-ID: <9rSdnb0PxeEgzo3cRVn-pA@igs.net>   Paul Sture wrote:2 > Larry Kilgallen wrote:8 >> In article <2muihaFq5hahU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture$ >> <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes: >> >>> H >>> VMS can be extremely handy for things which are not so easy to do orD >>> require extra software on other systems. For example if I have aF >>> bunch of files on a PC which need some global changes, moving themF >>> to a VMS system and using DCL and one of the editors can be _much_' >>> faster than doing the same on a PC.i >> >>G >> But if you upgrade to using TECO as your editor, wildcarding throughi8 >> the files can be accomplished from within the editor. >iE > LOL! I _knew_ there was a reason I'd squirrelled away a copy of the  > TECO manual.  L Unfortunately I tossed my copy out after I had scanned it into a .pdf  .....G then the PC I had the .pdf on had a horrible disk failure the next day, G right after the garbage collectors took away my paper trash and shortly/4 before the backup that was scheduled for that PC :-(  E Has anyone bothered to scan the TECO manual into a .pdf that's widelyo
 available?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 04:14:27 +0000a7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>i; Subject: Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?s( Message-ID: <411062A3.50003@bigpond.com>    John Smith mentioned in passing: > N > Unfortunately I tossed my copy out after I had scanned it into a .pdf  .....I > then the PC I had the .pdf on had a horrible disk failure the next day,hI > right after the garbage collectors took away my paper trash and shortlys6 > before the backup that was scheduled for that PC :-( > G > Has anyone bothered to scan the TECO manual into a .pdf that's widelyS > available?  G It can be found at the bottom of the page at the software link below...m   Regards, Dave.4 -- 0I David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.comtI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/cI DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.428 ************************