1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 04 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 429       Contents: Re: Alpha 255 died" Re: BASIC debugging -- please help" Re: BASIC debugging -- please help" Re: BASIC debugging -- please help" Re: BASIC debugging -- please help" Re: BASIC debugging -- please help Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance# Re: HP World, OpenVMS Bootcamp, etc  Re: OT: Pretty good Linux ad Re: OT: Pretty good Linux ad* Playwin says VMS gets NO viruses or hacks!. Re: Playwin says VMS gets NO viruses or hacks!< Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem?< Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem? Re: The free lunch YOU pay for Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems  Re: Touch Screen Voting systems   RE: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?  Re: Which IP Networking Package?2 Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?2 Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 06:38:02 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Alpha 255 died $ Message-ID: <ceq08a$qm1$1@online.de>  @ In article <l03110701bd133383dd82@[155.210.90.37]>, Miguel Angel? =?iso-8859-1?Q?Us=F3n?= Finkenzeller <mauf2@unizar.es> writes:    K > On Monday, after almost 8 years operation, I found that my VMS system had 5 > changed to console (operator?) mode, all by itself.  > L > No response to CTRL+F2 nor to the reset button, apparently. After poweringI > down and up, I don=B4t even get a signal on the screen (no >>> prompt). K > "Blind booting" (i.e., typing 'boot' in the keyboard after some 2 minutes M > have passed) does not cause any activity or sound, so I presume the trouble " > is not just a faulty video card.  G See if the capacitor between the mouse and SCSI plugs has burned out.   I If so, search the archives of this group (e.g. with Google) for posts by  + Christoph Gartmann concerning this problem.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 05:50:50 +0000 7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> + Subject: Re: BASIC debugging -- please help * Message-ID: <4110793A.2010807@bigpond.com>  ' Stanley F. Quayle mentioned in passing: E > This is on VAX, V6.1.  Everything works until I exit the program.   
 > Then I get:  > ( > %STR-F-ILLSTRCLA, illegal string class; > break on unhandled exception preceding SHARE$BASRTL+28330  > DBG> sh callH >  module name     routine name                     line       rel PC   	 >  abs PC H >  SHARE$BASRTL                                               00000000  
 > 00108AAA? > ----- above condition handler called with exception 00248054: ( > %STR-F-ILLSTRCLA, illegal string class  > ----- end of exception messageH >  SHARE$LIBRTL                                               00000000  
 > 000FE693 > G > This happens *after* the last statement is executed.  What gives?  I  F > guess there was an error in SHARE$LIBRTL, but I have no way to know  > what it was.  Or is there? >  > --Stan Quayle   A Is it possible that something is leaving a garbage value in R0 or B something possibly corrupting the stack and you don't see it until/ the program does an exit and uses the R0 value? B I have seen this before but don't recall the exact details of what caused it in my case.    Regards, Dave.  --  I David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.com I Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 11:59:08 +0300 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: BASIC debugging -- please help & Message-ID: <4110CF8B.23DBA183@hp.com>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > C > This is on VAX, V6.1.  Everything works until I exit the program. 
 > Then I get:  > ( > %STR-F-ILLSTRCLA, illegal string class; > break on unhandled exception preceding SHARE$BASRTL+28330  > DBG> sh callE >  module name     routine name                     line       rel PC 	 >  abs PC F >  SHARE$BASRTL                                               00000000
 > 00108AAA? > ----- above condition handler called with exception 00248054: ( > %STR-F-ILLSTRCLA, illegal string class  > ----- end of exception messageF >  SHARE$LIBRTL                                               00000000
 > 000FE693 > F > This happens *after* the last statement is executed.  What gives?  IE > guess there was an error in SHARE$LIBRTL, but I have no way to know  > what it was.  Or is there? >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------/ > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com  ) 1. V6.1 is *really* *really* unsupported.   H 2. Check for something stepping on string descriptor data, in particular the decriptor type.    Mike.  --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 06:40:31 -0400 ' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> + Subject: Re: BASIC debugging -- please help 8 Message-ID: <gke1h0d51sllocq6t6tsbde48sh6oieb0j@4ax.com>    Mike Rechtman wrote (excerpted):  > 2. Check for something stepping on string descriptor data, in  particular the decriptor type.   John Sauter responded:  : This is exactly correct.  BASRTL frees a procedure's local< strings when it exits.  Those string descriptors are kept on6 the stack, and BASRTL knows exactly where the compiler: has allocated them.  If the fourth byte of a descriptor is7 clobbered, it will have an illegal "class" and thus get ( this error message when BASRTL frees it.  ; It will be painful, but if you single step through BASRTL's < exit code, you should find the call to STR$ that is failing,7 and that will lead you to the string descriptor that is 4 garbaged.  Another possibility is to set all of your5 local string variables to the null string just before 4 the exit.  That might give you an earlier indication2 of where the problem lies.  If that works you will1 quickly find which string is bad, and you can put 7 other tests for it earlier in the routine to zero in on  the offending code.     . Clearing your declared strings won't flush out- the bad descriptor if is a nameless temporary 0 allocated by the compiler, but it's worth a try.  0 Be careful not to change the number or order of 2 declarations (including implicit declarations) or  you will move the symptom.%     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 15:59:43 GMT 0 From: Randy Park <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com>+ Subject: Re: BASIC debugging -- please help 8 Message-ID: <ft02h09qp8uu9bp0v6eaqflc7d06ju1bus@4ax.com>  W On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:33:53 -0400, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote:   D >This is on VAX, V6.1.  Everything works until I exit the program.   >Then I get: > ' >%STR-F-ILLSTRCLA, illegal string class : >break on unhandled exception preceding SHARE$BASRTL+28330
 >DBG> sh call G > module name     routine name                     line       rel PC     > abs PCG > SHARE$BASRTL                                               00000000   	 >00108AAA > >----- above condition handler called with exception 00248054:' >%STR-F-ILLSTRCLA, illegal string class  >----- end of exception message G > SHARE$LIBRTL                                               00000000   	 >000FE693  > F >This happens *after* the last statement is executed.  What gives?  I E >guess there was an error in SHARE$LIBRTL, but I have no way to know   >what it was.  Or is there?  >  >--Stan Quayle >Quayle Consulting Inc.  >  >----------   B When a BASIC routine/program exits it performs a "cleanup" processJ where all dynamic data is deallocated.  The header of one of your dynamic G strings has been trashed, mangled, or stepped upon by your program.  To 7 try to find where your bug is I would do the following:   I 1.  In the main program, look for uses of the LOC function and follow how K that variable is being used.  Remember the LOC function returns the address K of the header for a dynamic string, but the address of the data for a fixed  string ( MAP, COMMON, RECORD ).   O 2.  Look for calls to various LIB$ routines, SYS$ routines, STR$ routines, etc. J and double, no triple, check the arguments being passed.  If you're unsure, how the argument should be passed, then ask.  L 3.  Look for calls to your external subroutines, whether in BASIC or in someJ other language.  Make sure the arguments being passed are compatible.  TheH RTL checks the number of arguments passed for BASIC subroutines, but notK how there are passed.  There are some valid reasons for passing an argument K different than how it is being received, BY REF vs BY VALUE, but you really 8 have to know what you're doing, and why you're doing it.  P To prevent this problem in the future, create prototypes for all your externallyK called routines and %INCLUDE them in the calling routine.  This allows the  M compiler to catch these programming errors rather than the RTL.  Been there,  
 done that.  O If I still had a VAX I could tell you to send me the code and I'd find the bug.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:22:55 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>+ Subject: Re: BASIC debugging -- please help , Message-ID: <4110E32F.260.D4D41B1@localhost>  , On 4 Aug 2004 at 11:59, Mike Rechtman wrote:+ > 1. V6.1 is *really* *really* unsupported.   % That's okay, I can replicate on V7.3.   + Of course, I don't get this error on Alpha.   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2004 02:41:32 -0700 . From: dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (dieter rossbach)% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance = Message-ID: <e1d40caf.0408040141.4ec3af03@posting.google.com>    > G > there are some (beta) InfoZip versions available that'll handle both. F > (google should be your friend here, Zip 2.4h, Unzip 5.51f, or later) > 6 > [future InfoZIp versions 3+ promise to settle these E >  32 bit limitations. iirc.  I haven't  checked for v3 betas in the   >  past few weeks/months)   C I am using this zip 2.4h version, but I have difficulties with VERY F large files, esp. when compression image backups of big disks. The zipB files seam to be OK, there is no error while compressing, but whenF uncompressing, they often are not usuable ... the problem is: some are5 good, some are bad and I did not find any rule in it.    Regards    Dieter   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:39:37 -0700  From: JBloggs@acme.com% Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance 8 Message-ID: <ors1h0d3is5id673cnfra7p0rjl6d78nlt@4ax.com>  F On 4 Aug 2004 02:41:32 -0700, dieter.rossbach@gmx.de (dieter rossbach) wrote:  H >> there are some (beta) InfoZip versions available that'll handle both.G >> (google should be your friend here, Zip 2.4h, Unzip 5.51f, or later)  >>  7 >> [future InfoZIp versions 3+ promise to settle these  F >>  32 bit limitations. iirc.  I haven't  checked for v3 betas in the  >>  past few weeks/months) > D >I am using this zip 2.4h version, but I have difficulties with VERYG >large files, esp. when compression image backups of big disks. The zip C >files seam to be OK, there is no error while compressing, but when G >uncompressing, they often are not usuable ... the problem is: some are 6 >good, some are bad and I did not find any rule in it.   Hmm. that's alarming.     : I've done ok (so far) on about 20 occasions with Zip 2.4h = using a single input file >4gb  (~4.5 -- 5gb backup savesets)   9 but I haven't zipped anything resulting in an output .Zip  with size greater than 2gb.      ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 19:01:48 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> % Subject: Re: DCL Pipe/ZIP performance & Message-ID: <4111167C.A0910E0@aaa.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > D > ..., you'll see the product of my efforts to build "pipe lines" onH > OpenVMS-VAX V5.5-2. The problem was that I needed to process more dataJ > than I had freespace on disk. So, I put some programs together to createG > permanent mailboxes, used DEFINEs and SPAWN/NOWAITs strategically and G > hooked together some of my code and CONVERT/FDL to convert multi-GB's B > worth of data from dd-format ASCII on 8mm (from AIX machines) toF > ANSI-labelled EBCDIC on 9-track tape (for IBM mainframe) without the > need for intermediate files.  9 Just as you can run RMU /UNLOAD and RMU /LOAD between two ; Rdb databases using a mailbox without needing the diskspace  for the whole unload file...  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:21:18 +0000 (UTC)= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) , Subject: Re: HP World, OpenVMS Bootcamp, etc. Message-ID: <cequte$1ics$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  R In article <RrydnbEJ4ssG7ZrcRVn-pw@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: 	...L >Don't think that moving Boot Camp to a nearby large city like Boston, whereJ >there is more hotel & restaurant competition, would necessarily result inJ >lower out-of-pocket costs to attendees. Airfare *might* be a bit cheaper.  A 	"Moving to a nearby large city like Boston" would be unlikely to ' 	reduce hotel costs by much, I suspect.   A 	Here's my reasoning, based on recent training requirements in my ) 	own office, where we're being SUNburned.   A 	We purchased a "SUNPack" training package -- 8 man/courses to be A 	spent over a 12-month interval.  Our management requires that we A 	only take these courses at SUN's "Center of Excellence" training D 	locations, of which there are three:  San Jose, CA; Broomfield, CO;A 	Boston, MA.  We're in Central Pennsylvania, so Boston is clearly G 	the closer, thus presumably lower airfare or even driving is possible. E 	But the ACCOMODATIONS are SO MUCH CHEAPER in San Jose and Broomfield D 	(a suburb of Denver, I'm told) than around the Boston location thatA 	we are further limited to the California and Colorado locations; E 	savings there in Hotel/Food costs exceed by far the higher airfares.     P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560 2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's close C | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't close : | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAIL  	/ \   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:39:37 +0000 (UTC)= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) % Subject: Re: OT: Pretty good Linux ad . Message-ID: <ceqle8$175c$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  W In article <2mgoj9Fmq97oU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  >Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: C >> You'll need Shockwave or Flash players to see this, but it is a  I >> hilarious Linux ad, put to the music of 'The Doors,' and does a smart  : >> job of bashing MS at the same time...  Very creative... >>  = >> http://images.linspire.com/RunLinspireSong/RunLinspire.swf  >>   > K >A better link, where you can download and play it offline can be found at:  > ) >http://www.linspire.com/run_linspire.php  > 9 >and if you have Quicktime Pro, it works full screen too.  >  >--  >Paul Sture  > . >OS X: "It's Unix, Jim, but not as we know it"    ; 	Ah, well, folks.  Must have been too entertaining, because = 	as I read this article now, 2 weeks after it was posted, the A 	website reports 404 Not Found for both these links.  Did anybody  	keep this around?  P +----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+B | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")		InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu < | Systems Design Specialist - Lead	AT&T:      (814) 865-18189 | Digital Library Technologies		FAX:       (814) 863-3560 2 | 3 Paterno Library				"I'd rather be dancing..." B | Penn State University		    A host is a host from coast to coast,K | University Park, PA 16802	    And no one will talk to a host that's close C | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>	    Unless the host that isn't close : | EMail Professional since 1978	    Is busy, hung or dead.P +---------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> --	/"\ 	\ /	ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN 	 X	AGAINST HTML MAIL  	/ \   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:48:19 +1000  From: HUMBUG <humbug@bit.bucket>% Subject: Re: OT: Pretty good Linux ad , Message-ID: <jh27u1-ghv.ln1@deep.bit.bucket>  h On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:39:37 +0000 (UTC), j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818 <jlw@psulias.psu.edu> Wrote : <snip> >>* >>http://www.linspire.com/run_linspire.php >>: >>and if you have Quicktime Pro, it works full screen too. >> >>--   >>Paul Sture >>/ >>OS X: "It's Unix, Jim, but not as we know it"  >  > = > 	Ah, well, folks.  Must have been too entertaining, because ? > 	as I read this article now, 2 weeks after it was posted, the C > 	website reports 404 Not Found for both these links.  Did anybody  > 	keep this around?  0 Sure did. Tell me where to send it and I will...     --     Humbug   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2004 07:59:49 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)3 Subject: Playwin says VMS gets NO viruses or hacks! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408040659.216e8c28@posting.google.com>   | http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/index.jsp?section=News&subsection=Business&subsection_code=1&file=template1.jsp&storyid=1297    E Speaking about the operating systems used, Nanda said, "The operating ? system on our OSS is OpenVMS. We chose this since Alpha servers C presently support either OpenVMS or True64 Unix. Almost all Lottery E systems in the world use OpenVMS as it is found to be the ideal OS to D handle high transaction based businesses. Also the security controlsD offered by OpenVMS are tremendous. The fact is further substantiatedD as there have been no known virus for OpenVMS neither has there been? any incidents of hacking into OpenVMS based systems till date."    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 17:14:20 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG7 Subject: Re: Playwin says VMS gets NO viruses or hacks! 0 Message-ID: <00A35DAD.6BDC3BF0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <d7791aa1.0408040659.216e8c28@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:} >http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/index.jsp?section=News&subsection=Business&subsection_code=1&file=template1.jsp&storyid=1297   * ... all I get is a banner ad for Symantec.   --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2004 10:17:22 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) E Subject: Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem? 3 Message-ID: <MFk2LGjruFRw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   B In article <04080317115767@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:  J >    When I just searched DECC_INCLUDE:*.h for something, I got a bunch ofC > "-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation" J > complaints.  It appears that some recent change provided some new header0 > file with excessively restrictive protections:  @ It is to keep you from using dangerous programming languages :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:41:55 -0400 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>E Subject: Re: Restrictive protections on C header files - ECO problem? 8 Message-ID: <1g72h0l8a92is8muacdlb14a7mr7bi9ujk@4ax.com>  @ On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:11:57 -0500 (CDT), sms@antinode.org wrote:  I >   When I just searched DECC_INCLUDE:*.h for something, I got a bunch of B >"-RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation"I >complaints.  It appears that some recent change provided some new header / >file with excessively restrictive protections:  > 6 >Directory SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF] > G >GLOB.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:10.57  (RWED,RWED,RE,) G >POLL.H;1                   8   8-MAY-2004 22:49:15.55  (RWED,RWED,RE,) G >SIGINFO.H;1               17   8-MAY-2004 22:49:16.79  (RWED,RWED,RE,) G >STATVFS.H;1                5   8-MAY-2004 22:49:17.64  (RWED,RWED,RE,)  > E >   The file dates suggest that it was VMS731_ACRTL V3.0.  (I must be I >compiling too much stuff as SYSTEM, or I'd have run into it earlier.  Is  >this old news?)  P Steve, I think you're right that it is a bug in the VMS731_ACRTL patch. I lookedO on my system and I see the same thing for those specific files. In my case, the M modification date on those files is the date I installed a number of patches, 4 including the ACRTL-V0300 patch which you mentioned.  P So, I expanded that PCSI kit and found in the [.SYSUPD] directory a couple filesE which seem to explain what happened. The 3 files involved seem to be:   3 Directory xxxxxx:[xxxxxx.VMS731_ACRTL-V0300.SYSUPD]   L LIBEXT.EXE;1              19/27       15-JAN-2002 08:52:57.00  (RE,RE,RE,RE) CHECK_HEADERS.COM;1 L                            6/9        24-APR-2003 08:43:16.50  (RE,RE,RE,RE)L DECC$RTLDEF.TLB;1       1710/1710     24-SEP-2003 15:30:55.47  (RE,RE,RE,RE)  # Total of 3 files, 1735/1746 blocks.   O (There are more files in that directory, but these are the ones which matter in J this case.) The file which does the work is CHECK_HEADERS.COM. Inside thisL procedure, which is invoked by the PRODUCT INSTALL command, is code to checkN whether the .TLB file in this patch kit is newer (compares creation date) thanM the one on the system. If so, then this .TLB is provided. The last thing this  command procedure does is:   $! $! Now extract the header files  $!> $ create/dir pcsi$destination:[decc$lib.reference.decc$rtldef]. $ libext == "$pcsi$destination:[sysupd]libext"P $ libext sys$common:[syslib]DECC$RTLDEF.TLB  SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DEC  $! $EXIT:5 $ delete pcsi$destination:[sysupd]check_headers.com;* 5 $ delete pcsi$destination:[sysupd]compare_times.exe;* . $ delete pcsi$destination:[sysupd]libext.exe;* $ exit  N LIBEXT.EXE is a "mystery image" but my bet is that it does a simple extract ofP each module from the .TLB file and creates a new file in the reference directoryM -- and probably fails to explicitly specify a file protection. Therefore, the O files would end up with your process default file protection which, in my case, P is (RWED,RWED,,) which is different from yours, but matches the file protectionsG I see on my system. For files which already had a previous version, the A protection matches (as is normal) the previous file's protection. I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:42:24 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> ' Subject: Re: The free lunch YOU pay for . Message-ID: <411111F0.5090308@Flying-Disk.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:   E > I would consider paying for the engineers free lunch the best value  > money of the lot.  > > > Or as Ric said, "As long as your buying, I'll keep talking."   s/lunch/beer/     :-)    Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 20:46:02 +1200 # From: Kevin Waugh <waugh@met.co.nz> ( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems' Message-ID: <4110a053@news.iconz.co.nz>    Elliott Roper wrote:  D > In article <a3c44af1.0408030800.1e13d868@posting.google.com>, Dave. > Baxter <dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com> wrote: > 4 >> Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> wrote in message0 >> news:<020820042242520229%nospam@yrl.co.uk>...G >> > In article <a3c44af1.0408021339.43ac60d1@posting.google.com>, Dave 1 >> > Baxter <dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com> wrote:  >> >  & >> > (Received here least three times)I >> > >    I have really enjoyed this thread  (although it is clearly OT).  >> >  1 >> > Is this a case of "post early - post often"?  >>  G >> Sorry about the multiple postings. A little confusion between me and G >> the postmaster.   My first attempt to post appeared to fail, and the H >> last was due to impatience on my part, I should have waited longer (>H >> 5 hours) for the posting to appear.   I jumped the gun because of the >> initial uncertainty.  > D > It was an irresistable opportunity to crack a feeble joke. It alsoE > helped to illustrate the obvious point that electronic voting has a F > social aspect. It really has to be *seen* to be working, even better9 > than previous manual methods can be seen to be working.  > H > The Chaum paper addresses some of that, but you need a decent grasp of" > number theory to see it working. > I I used to work for the City Council (as a sysadmin) we used a combination K paper/electronic (VMS based) voting system.  Voting papers were sent out to J all ratepayers (the eligible voters) each candidate's name had a check boxE and a bar code next to it. Each voting paper had a unique barcode (to H prevent duplicates) The papers were filled out by the voters at home andJ mailed or dropped of at the Town Hall and kept secure until election day. K They were then opened in a secure room and the bar codes scanned by a group @ of people using hand held wands. The papers were kept for manualF verification later. The results were available on the net as they wereE processed and the system worked well.  It would not scale to National  elections though.   L Here in New Zealand the best way to convert to electronic elections would beF to use our lotto system. There are lotto shops in every mall and smallJ town. For voting booths in outlying areas where there are no lotto outletsK the cards could be collected the same way the current papers are (in locked K boxes) and taken to the nearest lotto shop at the close of play. The system K is tested every week, it would be a matter of printing different game cards G with candidates names instead of lotto games. X marks the candidate the J machine scans the lotto card the card is kept by the election officials atD the booth (lotto shop) for scrutineering purposes/manual re-count if required.   J You would still require someone to check the voters name and right to voteG and record that they had voted (to stop multiple voting). This could be D done on-line with the hard copy that is currently used as a backup. I In all the years that lotto has been running in NZ I can not recall there H ever being a system failure. The system is familiar to the operators andF the punters, almost every adult Kiwi has bought a lotto ticket at some time.   H Best of all if you can't decide who to vote for you could just ask for a6 "luck dip" the most popular way of picking numbers :-)   7 ------------------------------------------------------- : Kevin Waugh, Systems Programmer                 Metservice9 I'd do anything for a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger ..   EXCEPT diet or exercise..    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:47:14 +1200 # From: Kevin Waugh <waugh@met.co.nz> ( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems' Message-ID: <4110aeaa@news.iconz.co.nz>    John Smith wrote:    > Dave Baxter wrote:= >> It is obvious to any sane person that having a non-biased, G >> non-sentient computer add up the votes is more objective than having D >> it done by carbon-based ape-descendents who may or may not have aG >> vested interest in the outcomeimmediatelye female Secretary of State F >> from Florida, (Kathleen ?) who coincidentally enddeliberatelyber ofG >> Gdubya's administration).    You tell me, would you rather have your @ >> pay (and the pay of the other 10,000 people who work for yourH >> company), calculated by a person sitting in a cubicle with a stack ofB >> paper pads and pencils, particularly if that person might be onH >> drugs/alchohol, have a terminal illness or a recently deceased friend >> or family member.H >>     It is fairly obvious to me that most people would rather leave itF >> to a computer, and in almost every other walk of life are perfectlyG >> happy to, even when the computer in question has the power to have a F >> much more direct detrimental effect on the individual's life than a >> voting machine. >>C >>     It seems to me that the political parties also have a vested @ >> interest in maintaining clearly designated areas of doubt andG >> uncertainty.   (again, take Florida as an example), if the result of D >> the vote is "absolute" then how can you dispute the fact that you >> don't like the result. D >>      The primary argument I hear put forward against computerizedE >> voting systems is "How can you do a re-count??"    This is clearly G >> based on the assumption that the system is inherently unreliable and I >> therefore we must be able to verify it by use of an even less reliable G >> method, which then reopens the door to the "clearly designated areas 2 >> of doubt and uncertainty".    Square One again.H >>      The real question is not whether Computerized Voting systems areB >> reliable, it is more like,  are they more reliable than people? >>G >>      The poster before me mentioned the obvious solution.   Create a H >> paper trail.    Have the system generate a hard copy receipt, in factH >> create two.   The receipt is checked by the voter, and he retains oneI >> copy.   The other copy is placed in a regular ballot box, for use only F >> in the event of a recount.   This second copy could have the votingE >> information stored in a barcode perhaps so that a recount could be H >> carried out by an independent system just scanning these barcodes and >> generating a new total. >>I >>      It is clear that a little thought and consideration could produce E >> a secure, reliable and efficient system (probably not on windows), H >> (try OpenVMS)with as many safeguards and backups to meet any level of >> (b)anality. >># >>      Don't let the Ludites win!!  >> >> Dave. Baxter  >  > E > It isn't a matter of being a Luddite or not...it's about accurately A > recording the vote and not disenfranchising any eligible voter.  > K > In Canada, paper ballots are used - voters are given one ballot and go to L > a screened off area, put a big X or check mark in a big open circle besideL > the name of the candidate they want to vote for. The ballot is then foldedJ > and taken by the voter to the ballot box. If they screw their ballot up,K > the voter can request that it be destroyed in their presence and a secondp$ > ballot form will be given to them. > H > The final results are hand counted at each polling station by numerousL > people from Elections Canada staff and are scrutineered by representativesJ > of each political party as the count is being done. The results for eachF > polling station are typically known within 20 minutes of the pollingL > station closing. Add another 10 minutes or so for all the polls in a givenJ > district to report to the central election official and the final result > is known.e > L > I don't know for certain, but I believe that the cast ballots are saved in. > locked boxes for 2 years after the election. > ' > It's all very effective and low cost.c  * This has been a most interesting thread...L Here in NZ we use a paper secret ballot with the votes counted at each boothC after the poll closes. There are a number of safe guards to prevent-H multiple voting and/or tampering.  Politics in NZ is pretty active but IH have never heard anyone (anyone that counts i.e. VOTERS not Politicians)K express concern about the integrity of the system or the people who run it.x  I I believe that electronic voting could be easily instigated in NZ (I have J another message somewhere in this thread about converting our lotto system/ mainly for the installed hardware and network) 3  I Real computer systems like VMS have good security and audit facilities, IeE think most Kiwi's would accept the results counted by computer if thepE systems were available to auditors for checking before and after. The G voting would still be on a paper but the scanning machine can imediatlyeI flag an informal vote and give the chance to correct it if you wish (some 4 people deliberatly vote informaly as a protest).    6 It would decrease the cost and increase the accuracy.   L Of course NZ's entire population wouldn't make a decent sized city in the US (or even Aus.)  : Kevin Waugh, Systems Programmer                 Metservice9 I'd do anything for a body like Arnold Schwarzenegger .. t EXCEPT diet or exercise..m   -- - KBW-   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2004 12:06:45 GMTr( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems* Message-ID: <2nc1qkFuestfU1@uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <4c1By+m5NJgC@eisner.encompasserve.org>,i> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:W > In article <2n7d19FsgnrhU2@uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:h > F >> If they could hide entire fighter jets is it unreasonable to assumeI >> they couldn't hide things the size of a small fire extinguisher in all " >> those square miles of desert?   > J >    I have no doubt that Sadam and friends could hide lots of junk in theI >    desert.  I also have no doubt we have the technology to find it, and C >    I do this the US militarty is more than competent at using it.  > 6 >    But I'm not sure Sadam could have found that Mig.  ? Why would you think that?  If he buried, he would know where to A find it. As long as someone wrote down the location on the Garmino GPS receiver before they left.    C It's not like the equipment various US Army units have "hidden" outaF in the desert at White Sands back in the 70's that they never intended to find again.  :-)r      bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2004 12:13:09 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems* Message-ID: <2nc26kFuestfU2@uni-berlin.de>  = In article <b096a4ee.0408031824.338dcf91@posting.google.com>,41 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:t > H > The lottery is different enough from an election that I don't think itG > has a lot of relevance. The winning number is picked "at random" by aVF > large transparent device in which various balls with various numbersE > in various clear chambers are mixed around by flowing air. A personpG > then pushes a button or a lever or whatever and it allows one ball touF > slide up a tube and that is how each number is picked. The drawings,G > at least the ones I'm aware of, are televised for anyone to see. They 4 > are observed by some accounting firm or whatever.   E And even with all that, lottories in PA (and I think in NY) have beenpE successfully rigged.  So, how confident does that make you feel about B the elections when the machines are all developed in secret and no9 one is ever allowed to even look att he software in them.r   bill   -- LJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2004 12:17:02 GMTa( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems* Message-ID: <2nc2duFuestfU3@uni-berlin.de>  . In article <KzWPc.24120$cv5.12656@lakeread07>,3 	"Glen Thompson" <glen.thompson@cox.netnet> writes:nI > How about a system that uses the screen for the transaction, then after G > the voter confirms their vote, prints their vote on a receipt printer I > with a carbon copy.  Copy is spooled up inside the machine, voter takese  D There goes your secret ballot.  "Let's see, who was the first one toI come in and vote?  What's the first vote on the carbon?  Who was second?"C  G > printed receipt, verifies it, and drops it in secured box on way out.tB > In the event of  a recount, both paper copies can be compared in > separate recounts.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:37:15 GMTt& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems$ Message-ID: <4110D87B.4F4F8B@hp.com>  K > 1) User interface system gets data and transmits it to background system.hF > 2) Background system gets data, and inquires through user interface + >    whether data is correct, gets confirm.dL > 3) Background system stores data, and informs the user of what was stored.  E Compromising either the client or the server is sufficient in such a l: system, assuming the client software controls the screen.   H I don't understand the industry's objection to a randomly audited paper K trail. The best I can come up with is that they're afraid of embarrassment iH when the audits show that the machines aren't as reliable as they claim.   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Aug 2004 12:34:29 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> ( Subject: Re: Touch Screen Voting systems. Message-ID: <mddwu0edfqi.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  * David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  3 > I think I addressed this briefly in another post.    > The 2-tier system.  K > 1) User interface system gets data and transmits it to background system.y  M > 2) Background system gets data, and inquires through user interface whether   > data is correct, gets confirm.  L > 3) Background system stores data, and informs the user of what was stored.  O > If we're talking about a multi-location VMS cluster, with mirrored storage innJ > multiple locations, then I feel that most on this forum would agree thatM > there is very reproducible results available, that the data is quite secure. > from loss.  ( I guess we're talking at cross-purposes.  O The original poster was concerned with the actual products now being put forth, M which are based on consumer-grade Windows systems, with all the security thatCM that implies.  The manufacturers of these systems refuse to allow independent1O verification of their functionality, citing trade-secret status for their soft-LC ware, and refuse to add features such as re-countable audit trails.H  N Yes, any one of us professionals could design a better system--but we haven't, and therein lies the problem.a   -- eL Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:17:22 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>o) Subject: RE: Which IP Networking Package?oR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DF3EE@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----= > From: John H.Reinhardt [mailto:johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com]=20o > Sent: August 4, 2004 1:25 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + > Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?f >=20E > Thanks for everyone's postings.  It has been informative.  I didn'toF > beam to stir up an IP stack feud though.  lol  I guess I should haveB > elaborated a little more in the question.  I am not a VMS newbieA > having worked with it since 1981 when my college got it's firstaD > VAX-11/780. But, like Rich Jordan, I have only previous experienceD > with UCX/TCPIP since the places I have been have not opted for theF > extra cost to go with another's IP package - except for one that ranC > Wollengong on their VAX 7620's.  Now that I finally have some VMSyE > capable machines at home and the Hobbyist program to give me a free F > choice in packages I was just looking for some opinions.  EspeciallyE > since I agree with the several that mentioned that UCX/TCPIP's useriD > interface isn't the best or the most VMS-like.  I also am not sureF > that the "U*nx is crap!" contingent is totally correct as the use ofE > the Tru-64 IP kernal I think was in general an good upgrade for the-G > old UCX package.  However... VMS RULES!!! and it's good to be gettinguA > back to a real OS after so much time in the U*nx/Windows world.aE > Thanks again for all of the input.  I intend to be more active here , > and hopefully I can even help on occasion. >=20 > P.S.H >   Since none of these packages seem to have a killer flaw, I think I'm; > going to go with TCPware and see how that works since thenD > documentation seems to be pretty good and the user interface isn't > bad. >=20   John,   D As you mentioned, all three pkgs are good.  I have used all three inH Customer engagements and as you stated, there are no killer flaws in any one of them.  F I currently use both Multinet V5 and TCPIP services V5.4 on servers inB my work and home lab servers. I also did a very large VAX to Alpha< migration a little over a year ago using TCPware V5.6-2 withB paired-network feature for making two NIC's look like one for highD availability and load balancing. Telnet and ftp sessions do not dropB when using trunked Cisco switches and one switch dies. Transparent> fail-over and fail-back of telnet/ftp sessions works great.=20  G One way of differentiating TCPware vs Multinet might be to view TCPware H as being very good for those who want a more VMS-like experience and whoF have a fairly stable (read does not change a lot) TCPIP network, whileD Multinet might be more appropriate choice for those with a more UNIXB feel and who's environment requires more tuning and tweaking (moreH tuning "knobs") to meet changing requirements e.g. ISP, large web stuff.C Both can handle large loads and both latest versions support a widesG range of OpenVMS VAX/Alpha OS versions (back to VAX V5.5 and Alpha V6.1 
 as I recall).@   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477. Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcome. (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2004 07:43:45 -0700f& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package?t= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0408040643.4e648244@posting.google.com>g  r John H. Reinhardt <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<eos0h0hb51v8dpvshv72kg36p5qrd9dcfv@4ax.com>...E > Thanks for everyone's postings.  It has been informative.  I didn'tiF > beam to stir up an IP stack feud though.  lol  I guess I should haveB > elaborated a little more in the question.  I am not a VMS newbieA > having worked with it since 1981 when my college got it's firstyD > VAX-11/780. But, like Rich Jordan, I have only previous experienceD > with UCX/TCPIP since the places I have been have not opted for theF > extra cost to go with another's IP package - except for one that ranC > Wollengong on their VAX 7620's.  Now that I finally have some VMS>E > capable machines at home and the Hobbyist program to give me a freefF > choice in packages I was just looking for some opinions.  EspeciallyE > since I agree with the several that mentioned that UCX/TCPIP's user D > interface isn't the best or the most VMS-like.  I also am not sureF > that the "U*nx is crap!" contingent is totally correct as the use ofE > the Tru-64 IP kernal I think was in general an good upgrade for themG > old UCX package.  However... VMS RULES!!! and it's good to be getting A > back to a real OS after so much time in the U*nx/Windows world..E > Thanks again for all of the input.  I intend to be more active herea, > and hopefully I can even help on occasion. >  > P.S.H >   Since none of these packages seem to have a killer flaw, I think I'm; > going to go with TCPware and see how that works since theaD > documentation seems to be pretty good and the user interface isn't > bad.  ? Actually my main previous experience was with TCPware; its onlynC recently (on Alpha) that we've gone exclusively HP TCPIP due to theo cost.e  B I think you'll be happy with TCPware, but just ne aware that as HPC releases new versions of the various internet tools (SWS, SWB, PHP,dF etc) and third party and other ports (Python, MySQL) that you are moreE likely to have issues, and need to do workarounds or get patches witho7 TCPware than with the HP stack, if only because primarys- testing/support is only done with that stack.n   Rich   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2004 09:09:13 -0700 $ From: gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen)) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package? = Message-ID: <bdc65a53.0408040809.7009dce4@posting.google.com>e  A I haven't used MultiNet in a long time (5 years) but I was always B impressed with it. Back then I felt it beat TCPware hands down forC ease of setup and management, and at that time UCX didn't even come, close.  B Another cool thing about MultiNet (at least back then) was that itD could be restarted without dropping connections. Anyone know if thisD is still true? (That was a very important feature for the site I was working at then.)l    s johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com (John Reinhardt) wrote in message news:<5d708ac7.0407312340.1db8849@posting.google.com>... E > If you could pick any of the following 3 IP networking packages for G > your home VMS (Alpha) system(s), which would you choose and why?  ThemF > choices are HP TCP/IP, Process TCPware and Process Multinet.  If youE > were going to expose your system to the internet as a Web/Mail/Lista' > server would that change your choice?s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:46:56 -0400	& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>) Subject: Re: Which IP Networking Package? 8 Message-ID: <1782h0hlir0jq0dao50gpl6hlmt3fq4bv5@4ax.com>  C On 4 Aug 2004 09:09:13 -0700, gspamtackett@yahoo.com (Galen) wrote:e  B >I haven't used MultiNet in a long time (5 years) but I was alwaysC >impressed with it. Back then I felt it beat TCPware hands down for.D >ease of setup and management, and at that time UCX didn't even come >close.l >cC >Another cool thing about MultiNet (at least back then) was that itIE >could be restarted without dropping connections. Anyone know if this3E >is still true? (That was a very important feature for the site I was6 >working at then.)  P It is still true that you can restart the MULTINET_SERVER process (which handlesO all incoming connection requests) without dropping active connections. We, too,s$ find this very valuable on occasion.I -------------------------------------------------------------------------sI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comaI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)pI -------------------------------------------------------------------------o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 11:51:54 +0100i& From: Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk>; Subject: Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?P1 Message-ID: <040820041151544489%nospam@yrl.co.uk>w  7 In article <9rSdnb0PxeEgzo3cRVn-pA@igs.net>, John Smitht <a@nonymous.com> wrote:e   > Paul Sture wrote:w > > Larry Kilgallen wrote:: > >> In article <2muihaFq5hahU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture& > >> <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes: > >> > >>>tJ > >>> VMS can be extremely handy for things which are not so easy to do orF > >>> require extra software on other systems. For example if I have aH > >>> bunch of files on a PC which need some global changes, moving themH > >>> to a VMS system and using DCL and one of the editors can be _much_) > >>> faster than doing the same on a PC.  > >> > >>I > >> But if you upgrade to using TECO as your editor, wildcarding through : > >> the files can be accomplished from within the editor. > >hG > > LOL! I _knew_ there was a reason I'd squirrelled away a copy of then > > TECO manual. > N > Unfortunately I tossed my copy out after I had scanned it into a .pdf  .....I > then the PC I had the .pdf on had a horrible disk failure the next day,.I > right after the garbage collectors took away my paper trash and shortlyt6 > before the backup that was scheduled for that PC :-( > G > Has anyone bothered to scan the TECO manual into a .pdf that's widelya > available?  + The ASCII version is squirrelled away here:bB http://www.yrl.co.uk/~elliott/teco/teco.txt (there are three extra' lines at the start, to help JAF with... , .... a test of Asc2Html, the result is here:, http://www.yrl.co.uk/~elliott/teco/teco.html0 and there is a PDF of the output of Asc2RTF here+ http://www.yrl.co.uk/~elliott/teco/teco.pdf @ please tell us if you find a conversion error in either of them.F (Damn! I just found one 4th last line in the summary and index lacks a "|"bF (David Sneddon's link in the nearby post seems to have the original in monospaced font as PDF.)  F If you like what you see, help yourself to a copy of Asc2html. The VMS version is freeware.   PS For a real nostalgia trip:-E http://www.yrl.co.uk/~elliott/vtedit.zip The all-time champion of thea world teco macro.9   -- 0C I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address.M fsnospam$elliott$$   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:49:28 +0100 & From: Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk>; Subject: Re: [Somewhat OT] What your non-OVMS machines run?p1 Message-ID: <040820041249281749%nospam@yrl.co.uk>a  ? In article <040820041151544489%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Ropers <nospam@yrl.co.uk> wrote:c  l  > PS For a real nostalgia trip:-G > http://www.yrl.co.uk/~elliott/vtedit.zip The all-time champion of thee > world teco macro.n   PPS 5 "Sneddo's" teco macro stuff trumps mine. Thanks Dave.s> VTEDIT is in his collection, which contains much more besides.  = You wait for ages, then three teco macros come along at once.    -- oC I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address.M fsnospam$elliott$$   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.429 ************************