1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 16 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 453       Contents: Re: DECwindows startup Re: DECwindows startup Re: DECwindows startup Files-11 Structure+ Re: HP servers management shakeup happening + Re: HP servers management shakeup happening + Re: HP servers management shakeup happening + Re: HP servers management shakeup happening  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Itanium units shipped ( Re: Looking for DBL/Synergex programmers( Re: Looking for DBL/Synergex programmers0 Re: NONSHRADR and NONRES messages at end of boot@ Open source version of VMS, was: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....D Re: Open source version of VMS, was: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP.... Print to File? Re: Print to File? Re: Print to File? Re: Print to File? Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt 
 set prompt RE: set prompt% VMS Hobbyist licenses for Switzerland   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:40:23 +0200 - From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>  Subject: Re: DECwindows startup * Message-ID: <2obdo3F8ksv4U1@uni-berlin.de>  % "SCC" <simonc99@hotmail.com> wrote... ; > Have a VAXstation 3100 m76 running VMS7.3 and DECwindows.  > G > I have this system running headless, with an X-Server on my PC, and a   > serial link via HyperTerminal. > K > This all works well, except everytime I reboot, the SET DISPLAY I'm using C > to push X traffic to the PC is lost (as is, I believe, the norm).  > J > I'd like to get DECwindows etc to start automatically if possible on the@ > DISPLAY above. I've tried including the SET DISPLAY within theE > SYSTARTUP.COM... but it just don't seem to work! Any ideas why not?   : DECwindows gets started (and initialized!) after SYSTARTUP: (see SYS$SATRTUP:VMS$LPBEGIN-050_STARTUP.COM), i.e. at the: time you're trying to SET DISPLAY, not even the DECwindows$ logical name tables have be created.  9 There are plenty of hooks, though, to get involved in the C startup process: see SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE ; That file also offers the possibility to define DECW$DEVICE + (disclaimer: I haven't tried that feature!)    cu,    Martin --  <                         | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules!1  OpenVMS: Where do you  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de D  want to BE today?      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/8                         | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:48:50 +0200 - From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>  Subject: Re: DECwindows startup * Message-ID: <2obe86F8ob64U1@uni-berlin.de>   I wrote:; > There are plenty of hooks, though, to get involved in the E > startup process: see SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE = > That file also offers the possibility to define DECW$DEVICE - > (disclaimer: I haven't tried that feature!)   : Reading further, I found that DECW$DEVICE is only good for multi-headed systems.   A But I still think the idea of using the private server (and APPS) . setup files to redirect the display will work.   cu,    Martin --  ;    OpenVMS @ 25      | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! .                      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA    Still exceeding   |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 5    expectations      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2004 06:59:45 -0700. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby) Subject: Re: DECwindows startup < Message-ID: <224291b.0408160559.590568eb@posting.google.com>  U "SCC" <simonc99@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<cfnq2p02s7b@news4.newsguy.com>...  > Hi there all...  > ; > Have a VAXstation 3100 m76 running VMS7.3 and DECwindows.  > N > I have this system running headless, with an X-Server on my PC, and a serial > link via HyperTerminal.  > N > This all works well, except everytime I reboot, the SET DISPLAY I'm using to@ > push X traffic to the PC is lost (as is, I believe, the norm). > J > I'd like to get DECwindows etc to start automatically if possible on the@ > DISPLAY above. I've tried including the SET DISPLAY within theE > SYSTARTUP.COM... but it just don't seem to work! Any ideas why not?  > 	 > Cheers!  > S     = I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to do. If you want a E DECwindows login screen on the PC then the easiest way to start it is @ to execute these commands after the system has been initialized:  3 SET DISPLAY/CREATE/EXEC/node=mynode/transport=tcpip  run SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$startlogin  E There is code to do something like this in DECwindows start-up but it 0 won't execute that part if on a headless system.  ? However, if you do that then if the login process fails it will F resubmit itself, enlessly. This will happen if the PC is not available4 when the VAXStation boots, or is later switched off.  A A better system may be to use XDMCP where the PC starts the XDMCP F login screen when the PC starts the X-Server. XDMCP support is presentB in eXcursion and in TCP/IP Services (on Alpha, I have no knowledge either way about VAX).   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:35:45 -0700 1 From: "Stewart L. Domeier" <sld@u.washington.edu>  Subject: Files-11 Structure H Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0408161024270.62822@homer08.u.washington.edu>  A How can I tell if a disk volume is a "Files-11 Structure Level 2" C volume?  I've tried SHOW DEVICE/FULL and ANALYZE/DISK_STRUCTURE but F neither mentioned it. I think that's what I have, but I don't know why> I think that. A lot of OpenVMS documentation says that certainA commands or qualifiers (example: BACKUP/RECORD...) only work with C "Files-11 Structure Level 2" volumes for example. So I'm wanting to  try to confirm what I have.   @ I'm running V7.1-2 of OpenVMS on an AlphaStation 400 by the way.   Thanks!  - Stew   Stewart L. Domeier UW Medicine - IT Services  School of Medicine SLD@U.Washington.Edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:47:18 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP servers management shakeup happening0 Message-ID: <cfqacm$5dk$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:9 > "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message & > news:2o3m0uF69bvlU1@uni-berlin.de... >  >>Bill Todd wrote: >> >>> >>>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/12/hp_blackmore_fired/ >>>  >>> 9 >>>http://www.byteandswitch.com/document.asp?doc_id=57677  >>>  >>G >>"Fiorena blamed the problems in part on the divisions migration to a I >>new SAP system that shut down production for six weeks instead of three F >>weeks as planned. She also cited problems with channel management inH >>Europe. But she acknowledged that HPs storage products aren't meeting >>expectations." >>G >>Yeowch! 6 weeks production downtime! That's inexcusable for a company I >>selling high availablity solutions. I don't think much of the planned 3  >>weeks downtime either. >>J >>Perhaps they should have employed some of their customers as consultants >>for this.  >  > F > Well, this shaky storage situation is not exactly unique to the last/ > quarter - see this article from 3 months ago:  > N > http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid5_gci966137,	 > 00.html  >    So HP have. 8 1.	A PC division that is growing but barely breaks even.= 2.	An Enterprise server division that is shrinking and losing  	money. 9 3.	A storage division that is shrinking and losing money. > 4.	A services division that is growing but at reduced profits.? 5.	A printing and imaging division that is growing and which is  	still highly profitable.   C Can anyone remember what Walter Hewlett thought HP should do rather E than buying Compag and can anyone remember what the apparent benefits = as touted by the HP board would be if the merger went ahead ?   < Looks like the PC, Enterprise Servers and Storage LeadershipD all driven by the merger "benefits" still havn't quite arrived, when are they expected now ?    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:58:44 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>4 Subject: Re: HP servers management shakeup happening* Message-ID: <2obpbkF8tgr2U1@uni-berlin.de>   Andrew Harrison wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: > : >> "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message' >> news:2o3m0uF69bvlU1@uni-berlin.de...  >> >>> Bill Todd wrote: >>>  >>> @ >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/12/hp_blackmore_fired/ >>>> >>>>; >>>> http://www.byteandswitch.com/document.asp?doc_id=57677  >>>> >>> I >>> "Fiorena blamed the problems in part on the divisions migration to a K >>> new SAP system that shut down production for six weeks instead of three H >>> weeks as planned. She also cited problems with channel management inJ >>> Europe. But she acknowledged that HPs storage products aren't meeting >>> expectations." >>> I >>> Yeowch! 6 weeks production downtime! That's inexcusable for a company K >>> selling high availablity solutions. I don't think much of the planned 3  >>> weeks downtime either. >>> L >>> Perhaps they should have employed some of their customers as consultants
 >>> for this.  >> >> >>G >> Well, this shaky storage situation is not exactly unique to the last 0 >> quarter - see this article from 3 months ago: >>P >> http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid5_gci966137,  >>
 >> 00.html >> > 
 > So HP have. = > 1.    A PC division that is growing but barely breaks even. B > 2.    An Enterprise server division that is shrinking and losing >     money.> > 3.    A storage division that is shrinking and losing money.C > 4.    A services division that is growing but at reduced profits. D > 5.    A printing and imaging division that is growing and which is >     still highly profitable. > E > Can anyone remember what Walter Hewlett thought HP should do rather G > than buying Compag and can anyone remember what the apparent benefits ? > as touted by the HP board would be if the merger went ahead ?  > > > Looks like the PC, Enterprise Servers and Storage LeadershipF > all driven by the merger "benefits" still havn't quite arrived, when > are they expected now ?  >    A pretty damning analysis at  8 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/13/hp_not_adapting/   --  
 Paul Sture  - OS X: "It's Unix, Jim, but not as we know it"    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:10:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP servers management shakeup happening, Message-ID: <4120DC6D.4B3AE937@teksavvy.com>   Andrew Harrison wrote:E > Can anyone remember what Walter Hewlett thought HP should do rather G > than buying Compag and can anyone remember what the apparent benefits ? > as touted by the HP board would be if the merger went ahead ?   I I fairness to Mr Hewlett, there is a big danger in focusing solely on the L printer business. This business is artificially profitable and I am not sure) it is a viable business in the long term.    One word: environmental laws.   I If the european government includes ink cartridges in the "must be easily D recyclable" laws,  then customers will just spend $5 to refill theirT cartridges instead of paying $35. And that would be a hell of a hit to HP's profits.  L HP, EPSON, Canon might try to continue to use the proprietary non-refillableL cartidges in the USA market, but how long would the USA market tolerate thatM extreme markup over ink ? And if one of those manufacturers starts to provide E the recyclable cartridges in the USA, the others will have to follow.   J Also, printer leadership is not cast in stone. Centronics used to be "the"L printer company. Then when IBM came out with its PC, it teamed up with EPSONI which then became the de-facto standard. In fairness to HP, they did earn J their "de facto standard" whilst EPSON got that title just because of some agreement with IBM.   N But there is really nothing to prevent HP from losing its leadership position.  H And since HP has shed its core business (scientific equipment), all thatC remains which has potential for profits is the enterprise business.   F Then again, looking at how HP put all its eggs into the IA64 basket, IM wouldn't be surprised to see HP put all its eggs into the printer basket when L the IA64 thing fails. And when the printer thing fails, HP will be just like Dell or even Gateway.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:21:51 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP servers management shakeup happening, Message-ID: <4120DF1B.747F4404@teksavvy.com>   Paul Sture wrote:  > A pretty damning analysis at > : > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/13/hp_not_adapting/    N Seems to me that Carly doesn't have a real long term plan for HP. If yo have aG long term strategy, it is normally developped in cooperation with those 6 people, and you woudln't fire them due to one quarter.  L Could this be a case of Carly losing respect from her own VPs and she has toL fire a whole bunch of them, and put in wintel people like Winkler who are no threath to Carly ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:56:40 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <41204C98.1080900@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:    > Undisclosed wrote: > / >>who might buy the source and hire the coders?  >>E >>are there any other organizations that would be interested in OVMS?  >>= >>could a community effort make the requisite bank to buy and G >>open-source OVMS and/or maybe create a community-oriented OVMS to buy E >>OVMS and sell it a la the Cray employees buying back Cray from SGI?     K You'd have to consider how bad the SGI people wanted to see the Cray stuff  Q totally disappear.  Perhaps they were happy to see it continued.  As for VMS, as  G John and others have mentioned, HP may not want to compete against VMS.     H > Never going to happen. The current execuutive suite in Palo Alto wouldL > rather stuff the source code in a rocket headed on a trajectory to the sunL > (no pun intended) so it could be incinerated and have all their collectiveJ > guilt consumed in flames before they'd ever consider releasing it to the > open-source community.    1 Actually, that would be a good thing.  See below.     J > I don't know what the folks in OVMS Engineering might have to say on theD > subject, but my guess is that they might be of the opinion that toL > open-source VMS and have it retain the quality and logical cohesiveness itM > currenly has may be difficult to continue in an open-source world. They, of L > course, may have a different opinion, but I also don't expect to hear fromG > them here as commenting by HP employees on such matters may well be a  > career-limiting move.     N If there's anyone in VMS Engineering who's seen half of what I've seen, there M just may be more than a few copies of VMS stored away on the back of the top  A closet shelf, or such places.  CR and DVD writers are great.  :-)   Q Now to combine the 2.  HP sends all their copies of VMS into Sun.  Above mention  O copy of VMS gets into open source, or another company, or whatever.  Without a  J copy, how does HP sue the infringers?  They cannot prove that the code is 4 theirs, without their own copy for comparisons.  :-)  * Dave, yeah, it's been a long weekend.  :-)     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:03:28 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <41204E30.3040307@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   ! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > Q >>Now that we have VMS on Itanium, VMS and it's development staff will be sold to  >>Intel. >> > M > that should read "donated to Intel". Just like the VMS compiler people were ; > donated to Intel, or VMS clustering donated to Microsoft.  >  > L >>Intel will then only continue development of VMS as an internal system for$ >>controlling it's chip fabrication. >> > L > No. VMS can't survive on a simgle customer/application. Intel would simply  > migrate to Tandem or VxWorks.     O Actually, Intel could easily afford to run VMS engineering solely for it's own  P use.  But that would be stupid.  Intel would use VMS to promote the itanic.  It N would be something they could use to offset any pressure Microsoft may try to L apply to them.  Whether HP cares about VMS, I'd think that Intel definitely L would care about VMS, both for in-house use, and as an OS running on itanic.     Dave     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:10:17 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <41204FC9.1060106@tsoft-inc.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:   m > Undisclosed <nomail@dontbeaweaselspammer.com> wrote in message news:<GsmdnRBmBL0sOoPcRVn-ug@comcast.com>...  > / >>who might buy the source and hire the coders?  >>E >>are there any other organizations that would be interested in OVMS?  >>J >>could a community effort make the requisite bank to buy and open-source J >>OVMS and/or maybe create a community-oriented OVMS to buy OVMS and sell 7 >>it a la the Cray employees buying back Cray from SGI?  >> > ; > they better not try to force users off, or else they will ; > make a lot of customers like us very very angry and never " > buy another HP product again ... >   % Ah, may I point out a bit of history.   P Killing Alpha was guaranteed to produce very angry customers, some of who would N go away for good.  They didn't care, guessed what percentage would do so, and Q gladly wrote them off.  Take a look at the hugh dip in Alpha sales after Jun 21,  " 2001.  (I think that was the day.)  M If HP decides that they don't want to be in a particular business, they will  P close it down, and accept the customer loss.  They've already done it.  It gets  easier the second time.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 01:51:20 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....0 Message-ID: <87n00wi92f.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:  T > In article <WJOdnX4oCr4fUIPcRVn-rg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>Undisclosed wrote:  1 >>> who might buy the source and hire the coders?   A >>> are there any other organizations that would be interested in 	 >>> OVMS?   G The 5 sided funny farm, and they who can not be named come to mind. The + USAF also seem to be sensible in this area.    > One possible future :-  F > Now that we have VMS on Itanium, VMS and it's development staff willE > be sold to Intel.  Intel will then only continue development of VMS > > as an internal system for controlling it's chip fabrication.  C > For this donation HP will get a special deal on Intel chips for a  > short period of time.   $ "Hey Carly, you want ice with that?"   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:08:44 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....0 Message-ID: <00A366F0.B8B90238@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <41204FC9.1060106@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >Bob Ceculski wrote: > n >> Undisclosed <nomail@dontbeaweaselspammer.com> wrote in message news:<GsmdnRBmBL0sOoPcRVn-ug@comcast.com>... >>  0 >>>who might buy the source and hire the coders? >>> F >>>are there any other organizations that would be interested in OVMS? >>> K >>>could a community effort make the requisite bank to buy and open-source  K >>>OVMS and/or maybe create a community-oriented OVMS to buy OVMS and sell  8 >>>it a la the Cray employees buying back Cray from SGI? >>>  >>  < >> they better not try to force users off, or else they will< >> make a lot of customers like us very very angry and never# >> buy another HP product again ...  >>   > & >Ah, may I point out a bit of history. > Q >Killing Alpha was guaranteed to produce very angry customers, some of who would  O >go away for good.  They didn't care, guessed what percentage would do so, and  R >gladly wrote them off.  Take a look at the hugh dip in Alpha sales after Jun 21, # >2001.  (I think that was the day.)  > N >If HP decides that they don't want to be in a particular business, they will Q >close it down, and accept the customer loss.  They've already done it.  It gets   >easier the second time.  M Well, if HP kills of VMS, the VAXman will become a MACman...  I will never go N to the dark side.  Besides, Apple has some great technology and it isn't half-E wit shit like that output from that Redmond based cult of the damned.   M Also, I have no HP equipment other then an old HP 4C SCSI scanner -- remember N back when HP still built quality equipment and not its for-commodity-sale shitN it sells now?  Even the consumer rags ratings put Epson and Canon printers andN scanners on every scale at superior to HP's offerings.  That's why I purchased/ the Canon LiDE 80 scanner and i9900 printer.       --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2004 08:49:30 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0408160749.477d0788@posting.google.com>   W "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<WJOdnX4oCr4fUIPcRVn-rg@igs.net>...  > Undisclosed wrote:1 > > who might buy the source and hire the coders?  > > G > > are there any other organizations that would be interested in OVMS?  > > ? > > could a community effort make the requisite bank to buy and I > > open-source OVMS and/or maybe create a community-oriented OVMS to buy G > > OVMS and sell it a la the Cray employees buying back Cray from SGI?  >  > H > Never going to happen. The current execuutive suite in Palo Alto wouldL > rather stuff the source code in a rocket headed on a trajectory to the sunL > (no pun intended) so it could be incinerated and have all their collectiveJ > guilt consumed in flames before they'd ever consider releasing it to the > open-source community. > J > I don't know what the folks in OVMS Engineering might have to say on theD > subject, but my guess is that they might be of the opinion that toL > open-source VMS and have it retain the quality and logical cohesiveness itM > currenly has may be difficult to continue in an open-source world. They, of L > course, may have a different opinion, but I also don't expect to hear fromG > them here as commenting by HP employees on such matters may well be a  > career-limiting move.     B I believe HP will migrate the OpenVMS products to the DII / COE ! & It will become a MIL Operating System.     Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:54:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <4120D8AC.9B730C78@teksavvy.com>   David Froble wrote: P > Actually, Intel could easily afford to run VMS engineering solely for it's ownQ > use.  But that would be stupid.  Intel would use VMS to promote the itanic.  It O > would be something they could use to offset any pressure Microsoft may try to  > apply to them.      K No way. Intel will not start to compete against its own customers. If Intel J were to pitch VMS against HP and IBM, those two would probably start to be really good friends with AMD.   J However, where it might be interesting is if Intel were to continue VMS soL that folks like Dell and Gateway could sell "enterprise systems" loaded withM VMS which would compete against HP-UX, Solaris and AIX. But that would really ) require VMS be ported to the 64 bit 8086.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:00:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <4120DA00.F7C0BBE0@teksavvy.com>   David Froble wrote: Q > Killing Alpha was guaranteed to produce very angry customers, some of who would O > go away for good.  They didn't care, guessed what percentage would do so, and  > gladly wrote them off.    I But Carly had the easy way of killing Alpha: get Curly to do the deed. If I Carly has to kill VMS, she'll have to do the dirty job herself and it may B increase her hairdressing costs when all the sht is thrown at her.  N > If HP decides that they don't want to be in a particular business, they willQ > close it down, and accept the customer loss.  They've already done it.  It gets  > easier the second time.   L Unless the division in which VMS is is struggling and can't really afford to lose any business.  K For Alpha, it was easy since the loss of sales was burried/forgotten due to L the announcement of the merger and the 9 month pregnancy period after which,K when the two companies combined. But if Carly were to announce the death of K VMS during normal business withot any large merger, takeover in sight, then K the loss in revenus and customer backlash couldn't be hidden under the rug.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:19:55 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <4120D09B.1090002@tsoft-inc.com>   Paul Repacholi wrote:   " > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >  > T >>In article <WJOdnX4oCr4fUIPcRVn-rg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >> >>>Undisclosed wrote:  >>>  > 1 >>>>who might buy the source and hire the coders?  >>>> > A >>>>are there any other organizations that would be interested in 	 >>>>OVMS?  >>>> > I > The 5 sided funny farm, and they who can not be named come to mind. The - > USAF also seem to be sensible in this area.   N The US Selective Service appears to actually be selective.  I read an article L recently stating that they were compiling lists of IT people, and something Q else, oh, networking people.  They also do this with doctors.  I guess there can  Q be a draft of selective catagories.  Should the VMS developers worry about being   drafted?   Oh, :-)    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:11:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <4120DCAC.D64B9A9E@teksavvy.com>  	 One idea:   G When IA64 fails, and the printer business can no longer count on making K profits by selling ink, perhaps HP might declare bankrupcy, at which point, N creditors might force HP to sell VMS to someone who would make good use of it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:10:24 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Itanium units shipped9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEKKDKAA.tom@kednos.com>   5 Came across this, maybe it is time to dust off Alpha? 6 The Power 5 is now pushing 2Ghz, so it would take some1 catching up.  Or better yet, port VMS to Power 5.   ; http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/10/ibm_drives_itanium/  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 05:08:47 -0400 ! From: Hal Kuff <kuff@comcast.net> 1 Subject: Re: Looking for DBL/Synergex programmers < Message-ID: <kuff-F297A4.05084616082004@library.airnews.net>  + In article <41201E66.FAED4709@comcast.net>, 4  David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:   > Hal Kuff wrote:  > > L > > If you have DBL/Synergex experience or know of someone that does, please% > > respond to kuff at tessco dot com 1 > > Located in baltimore maryland and reno nevada  > + > Any option for long-distance telecommute?  >  > D.J.D.   Possible...    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2004 05:52:30 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: Looking for DBL/Synergex programmers = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408160452.1e40a7c7@posting.google.com>   e Hal Kuff <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<kuff-AB1B34.21544415082004@library.airnews.net>... K > If you have DBL/Synergex experience or know of someone that does, please  $ > respond to kuff at tessco dot com / > Located in baltimore maryland and reno nevada   ; I have over 19 years of dibol and over 9 of synergy dbl ...  I am the best! :)    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2004 10:24:43 -0700( From: tjonard@usa.net (Thomas A. Jonard)9 Subject: Re: NONSHRADR and NONRES messages at end of boot < Message-ID: <3ad0fd0.0408160924.2e83fe81@posting.google.com>  k chessmaster1010@hotmail.com (JG) wrote in message news:<dd3f0cb7.0408131427.6637edbc@posting.google.com>... x > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<4n6oTU2L++yN@eisner.encompasserve.org>...j > > In article <dd3f0cb7.0408120949.2547cc1a@posting.google.com>, chessmaster1010@hotmail.com (JG) writes:L > > > My 7.2-2 Alphas always output these messages on the console at the endH > > > of a boot.  I know it's not causing a problem, but I was wondering1 > > > what I could do to get rid of the messages.  > > > > > > > %INSTALL-I-NOTSHRADR, DECW$XLIBSHR is not installed with > > > shareable address data > > >  > > $ > >    Sounds like time for autogen. > E > Autogen has been run many times on these systems since the messages  > started coming out.   + Bump up the GH parameters and then autogen.    Tom   ( Thomas A. Jonard,  jonard@XLNsystems.com Senior Consultant, XLNsystems , XLNsystems -- VMS specialists, CharonVAX VAR   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2004 08:08:32 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)I Subject: Open source version of VMS, was: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP.... 3 Message-ID: <LGj2UB9cq+x9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <WJOdnX4oCr4fUIPcRVn-rg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > H > Never going to happen. The current execuutive suite in Palo Alto wouldL > rather stuff the source code in a rocket headed on a trajectory to the sunL > (no pun intended) so it could be incinerated and have all their collectiveJ > guilt consumed in flames before they'd ever consider releasing it to the > open-source community. >   K On a related note, if someone independently developed something that looked I like VMS and did not use VMS code, but just used the VMS interfaces (much J like the FreeVMS team are trying to do) and it became useful enough to useJ at the low end, does anyone think that HP would pull a SCO and try to shut2 it down or would HP let it continue in existance ?   Simon.  K PS: BTW, I'm interested in this question because I would like to see a open J source implementation of VMS succeed, but I'm concerned what HP's reaction4 would be to a successful open source implementation.   -- sB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:29:19 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>sM Subject: Re: Open source version of VMS, was: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....H, Message-ID: <4120E0DB.5FD1F6FF@teksavvy.com>   Simon Clubley wrote:M > On a related note, if someone independently developed something that lookedfK > like VMS and did not use VMS code, but just used the VMS interfaces (muchkL > like the FreeVMS team are trying to do) and it became useful enough to useL > at the low end, does anyone think that HP would pull a SCO and try to shut4 > it down or would HP let it continue in existance ?    M SCO is fighting for its life because SCO-Unix is its main bread winner and it N doesn't want to see it "stolen" at its own expense. (eg: Linux may put SCO out
 of business).e  H HP doesn't know it owns VMS, doesn't care about VMS, doesn't flaunt VMS,L doesn't market VMS, doesn't mention how dependant it is on VMS revenus. It's= killed Alpha, and isn't porting all the VMS software to IA64.a  G So an argument could be made with the "use it or lose it". Since HP hastK clearly shown that VSM is not part of its core business and definitely doeseG not leverage VMS's potential (one could even argue that they try NOT to1L leverage VMS' potential), then in court, it might be easier to argue that HPL isn't protecting its intellectual property for VMS, especially when you lookN at the historical "giveaways" that the owner of VMS has made (donating code to, Microsoft in exchange for nothing concrete).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:01:45 -0400i# From: malanga <malanga@nyame.yu.ca>b Subject: Print to File? / Message-ID: <BD461A69.D9A8%malanga@nyame.yu.ca>t   Hello...  I I'd like to set up a  simple (text) print device & queue that will let uszK print, via a system print device, to a file from an existing, unmodifiable,t rather rigid application.E  K Could someone point me to where information on how this can be accomplishedr might be found?o  J I've looked around and found a number of mentions of approaches that use aL null symbiont, but nothing that provides the sort of end-to-end details that a newbie needs.s   Thanks in advance,   M.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:09:17 -0400a* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Print to File? 3 Message-ID: <yi2Uc.1312$KF.10330@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>d   Hi  , Not sure I understand clearly what you need.J VMS is not like Windows. There is not (in general and as standard) a printK driver for printers. So what goes to the printer is not some kind of bitmap:! of your file, it's just the file.D  K So... all you want is the file you're printing. If you want it to not printgG at all, define a dummy print queue that you leave stopped at all times.T Clean it up once in a while.   --   Syltremr   OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---f: "malanga" <malanga@nyame.yu.ca> a crit dans le message de) news:BD461A69.D9A8%malanga@nyame.yu.ca... 
 > Hello... >cK > I'd like to set up a  simple (text) print device & queue that will let usi? > print, via a system print device, to a file from an existing,@
 unmodifiable,  > rather rigid application.: >w@ > Could someone point me to where information on how this can be accomplished > might be found?- >-L > I've looked around and found a number of mentions of approaches that use aI > null symbiont, but nothing that provides the sort of end-to-end details4 that > a newbie needs.p >i > Thanks in advance, >s > M. >o >i >o >w >e   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2004 08:59:47 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Print to File?n3 Message-ID: <ywFDCqIEhngQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  U In article <BD461A69.D9A8%malanga@nyame.yu.ca>, malanga <malanga@nyame.yu.ca> writes:l
 > Hello... > K > I'd like to set up a  simple (text) print device & queue that will let ustM > print, via a system print device, to a file from an existing, unmodifiable,u > rather rigid application.e > M > Could someone point me to where information on how this can be accomplished. > might be found?t  I Check out EXECSYMB.  It can do pretty much anything you want with a printaC file.  And I just looked.  It can even handle the case in which theeD print job was created on a spooled device so that the print file hasF no directory entry.  (Check out configuration item SPOOL=[spooldir] to handle this case).   Very easy to use.T   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:24:27 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>e Subject: Re: Print to File? , Message-ID: <4120DFB8.1954CD88@teksavvy.com>  I You would want to develop a print symbiont which copies each file that isV: submitted to a specific location and gives it a good name.  L There is good documentatin on writing a print symbiont. Can't remember whereH it is though. But if there is a master index in the VMS doc set (the old1 printed one does), you should be able to find it.a  N And to copy the files, you can use the CONVERT callable routines (CONV$xxxx if I remember correctly).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:40:09 +0200r From: "gngn" <b0fh@free.fr>8 Subject: Re, Re : set prompt2 Message-ID: <cfqh09$cfo$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>  R Because i have some unix habits. I prefer to see where i'am or where a user is. =)  5 > Takes too much space.  What's wrong with SHO DEF orw9 >  PWD == "show default"  if the user wants to know wheree > he is?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:38:37 -0400.( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt, Message-ID: <4120D4FD.1060503@tsoft-inc.com>   gngn wrote:1  T > Because i have some unix habits. I prefer to see where i'am or where a user is. =) >  > 5 >>Takes too much space.  What's wrong with SHO DEF orn9 >> PWD == "show default"  if the user wants to know where  >>he is? >>  6 Take the hypothetical case.  A directory structure of:  y [UserDirectory.AccountingUsers.JoshaAlexanderWellington.AccountsPayable.SpecialAccounts.ReallyBadWelchers.FiscalYear2000]T   On the device:   1$1AccountingUsersDisk  ' Might then give you a prompt string of:9   1$1AccountingUsersDisk:[UserDirectory.AccountingUsers.JoshaAlexanderWellington.AccountsPayable.SpecialAccounts.ReallyBadWelchers.FiscalYear2000]>e  5 Oops, you only have an 80 character per line display?o  N There have been many postings on setting custom prompt strings, but VMS users M being what they are, usually consider ALL cases, not just the trivial.  When dQ doing so, it becomes clear that such a procedure isn't appropriate in many cases.d  Q The typical solution is to set up a command file to get the device and directory rK and set the prompt string.  Have a symbol defined that invokes the command i3 procedure.  Use the symbol in place of SET DEFAULT.>   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Aug 2004 16:36:36 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch>   Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <slrnci1okk.1td.thierry@MARS.Family>   Hello!  8 On 2004-08-16, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
 > gngn wrote:h >iV > > Because i have some unix habits. I prefer to see where i'am or where a user is. =) > > 9 > > > Takes too much space.  What's wrong with SHO DEF ori= > > >  PWD == "show default"  if the user wants to know whereW > > > he is? > > >  >s8 > Take the hypothetical case.  A directory structure of: >w{ > [UserDirectory.AccountingUsers.JoshaAlexanderWellington.AccountsPayable.SpecialAccounts.ReallyBadWelchers.FiscalYear2000]e >r > On the device: >h > 1$1AccountingUsersDisk >") > Might then give you a prompt string of:  >  > 1$1AccountingUsersDisk:[UserDirectory.AccountingUsers.JoshaAlexanderWellington.AccountsPayable.SpecialAccounts.ReallyBadWelchers.FiscalYear2000]>p >s7 > Oops, you only have an 80 character per line display?e >hP > There have been many postings on setting custom prompt strings, but VMS users O > being what they are, usually consider ALL cases, not just the trivial.  When  S > doing so, it becomes clear that such a procedure isn't appropriate in many cases.h  L And unix users, being what they are, usually find a solution then =:) (SCNR)  L Most shells have the option either to show ALL the characters, or to say "ifL the full path is more than X characters, show only the last Y directories or/ the most possible which fit into X characters."d  M On the other hand, you get used to a $ or something with the hostname and the 	 username.o   Thierry    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:16:06 +0200  From: "gngn" <b0fh@free.fr>d Subject: set prompt'2 Message-ID: <cfqfj6$c0b$1@s5.feed.news.oleane.net>  B I would like to replace the $ prompt to reflect the user's currentK directory (i.e. - vol:[dir.dir]$ ). Is this possible? Was thinking of usingmM f$(directory), but of course this won't refresh everytime that user set def'su" somewhere else. Any solutions ? =)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:14:38 -0700h# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t Subject: RE: set prompt 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIIEKKDKAA.tom@kednos.com>s  3 Takes too much space.  What's wrong with SHO DEF orn8   PWD == "show default"  if the user wants to know where he is?   < -----Original Message-----" < From: gngn [mailto:b0fh@free.fr]' < Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:16 AMw < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  < Subject: set prompti <  < D < I would like to replace the $ prompt to reflect the user's current< < directory (i.e. - vol:[dir.dir]$ ). Is this possible? Was  < thinking of usingbA < f$(directory), but of course this won't refresh everytime that   < user set def's$ < somewhere else. Any solutions ? =) <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  <  ---m& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:54:12 +0200f* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>. Subject: VMS Hobbyist licenses for Switzerland* Message-ID: <2obp38F8ueduU1@uni-berlin.de>  < This had me thrown for a while, so I thought I'd pass it on.  H Hobbyist license users in Switzerland should note that when registering E for licenses, in the drop down list for DECUS chapters the entry for eD Switzerland has changed from "DECUS Switzerland" to "HP Interex.ch".   -- s
 Paul Sture  - OS X: "It's Unix, Jim, but not as we know it"c   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.453 ************************