1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 20 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 460       Contents: Re: (OT:) New York marathon  Re: (OT:) New York marathon " anyone using these disks with VMS?& Re: anyone using these disks with VMS?& Re: anyone using these disks with VMS? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator???@ Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersD Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersD Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersD Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersD Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersO Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users usersusers  Ford and Oracle  Re: Ford and Oracle / Getting FORKed Was: If OVMS is killed by HP.... 3 Re: Getting FORKed Was: If OVMS is killed by HP.... # Re: Help with MOP of Printserver 17 # Re: Help with MOP of Printserver 17  Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP.... % Legato vs VMS Backup -- Recover Speed  Re: Multia questions Re: Multia questions Re: Multia questionsD Re: Open source version of VMS, was: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....' Re: output of simultaneous subprocesses * Re: Problems w/ WRITERCHECK on QIOW() Call* Re: Problems w/ WRITERCHECK on QIOW() Call Re: questions about TZ88N-VA questions about TZ88N-VA Re: questions about TZ88N-VA Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Scary Kerry " Re: Surprise, surprise ! New EV7's: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:44:46 +0200 2 From: Karl Rohwedder <emil.mustermann@t-online.de>$ Subject: Re: (OT:) New York marathon) Message-ID: <cg1i8i$hrj8@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>    Patriarche wrote: B > Dans l'article <cfsk8q$8g10@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>, emil.mustermann@t- > online.de nous racontait...  >  >>Hi,  >>_ >>I have just received my startnumber for the NY marathon this year. I am coming with 2 friends 
 >>to NewYork.  >>? >>Are any other members of comp.os.vms going to run in NewYork?  >> >>Karl Rohwedder (Germany) >  > . > No, i prefer Medoc's marathon, hipss ! ;-))) >    > ( That one is on my future list too... :-]   Karl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:57:13 GMT 4 From: "Roert G. Schaffrath" <rschaffrath@yahoo.com>$ Subject: Re: (OT:) New York marathon% Message-ID: <4124A3AC.61DC@yahoo.com>    Karl Rohwedder wrote:  >  > Patriarche wrote: D > > Dans l'article <cfsk8q$8g10@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>, emil.mustermann@t- > > online.de nous racontait...  > >  > >>Hi,  > >>a > >>I have just received my startnumber for the NY marathon this year. I am coming with 2 friends  > >>to NewYork.  > >>A > >>Are any other members of comp.os.vms going to run in NewYork?  > >> > >>Karl Rohwedder (Germany) > >  > > 0 > > No, i prefer Medoc's marathon, hipss ! ;-))) > >  > > * > That one is on my future list too... :-] >  > Karl  H Not running it but I am the Mile 22 Communications Captain for the event9 in Harlem.  I'll be wearing a bright orange hat as usual.    Robert   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:03:41 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)+ Subject: anyone using these disks with VMS? $ Message-ID: <cg2tid$2m4$1@online.de>  ) Seagate Cheetah ST34502LW (firmware 0004)    Quantum XP34300 (REV H)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:18:36 -0400 ; From: "Island Computers USA" <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> / Subject: Re: anyone using these disks with VMS? 0 Message-ID: <10i9uno9cs5j60b@news.supernews.com>   Seagates yes Quantum - no way   DT   --   David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  DIRECT#: 912 232 1729  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net   L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>/ wrote in message news:cg2tid$2m4$1@online.de... + > Seagate Cheetah ST34502LW (firmware 0004)  >  > Quantum XP34300 (REV H)  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:43:21 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)/ Subject: Re: anyone using these disks with VMS? $ Message-ID: <cg33d9$af3$2@online.de>  G In article <10i9uno9cs5j60b@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers USA" ' <dbturner@islandco.com.nospam> writes:     > Seagates yes > Quantum - no way   The models I mentioned?   E Talking only original DEC disks for the moment, I have some rebadged  H Seagates and some rebadged Quantums, though more of the former than the A latter.  The only disk I've ever had fail was a rebadged Seagate  ? Barracuda (2 GB).  Small-number statistics, of course.  Is the  H traditional wisdom Seagate better than Quantum better than Connor borne % out by the experience of others here?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:04:29 +0200 + From: Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 6 Message-ID: <4123b682$0$12336$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>  K > has anyone had experience with this software... i'd like to know ahead of M > time what the challenges to using it might be (what is missing) rather than > > discover it down the road.. any comments greatly appreciated  A It is a production quality software that I've recommended to and  H implemented at several of my customers sites. It replaces a real VAX to  the last decimal.   G > anyone know where i could grab onto a single user FULL version of the E > software... the trial version doesn't is way to shallow to evaluate   C What characteristics would you like to evaluate? The architectural  H evaluation has been performed by Digital/Cpq/HP. It passes all hardware H verification tests. It runs all software, including but not limited to, F OpenVMS, its layered products and applications. Performance is not an 4 issue, scalable with the underlying Intel processor.  J So, get in touch with a local distributor and arrange for a pilot project.  ( By the way, I'm biased. guess which way.   --  
 Wilm Boerhout  Zwolle, The Netherlands    wilmOLD@PAINTboerhout.nl2    (remove OLD PAINT from this address before use)   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2004 15:48:36 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <wbSN$CN20pfj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <4123b682$0$12336$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> writes: > C > It is a production quality software that I've recommended to and  J > implemented at several of my customers sites. It replaces a real VAX to  > the last decimal.  >   C    Unless the Windows kernel has something better to do for several B    milliseconds.  I have not yet seen a version of Charon-VAX that*    I would use in a real-time application.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:18:25 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com># Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? , Message-ID: <41242A11.9020206@tsoft-inc.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  f > In article <4123b682$0$12336$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> writes: > C >>It is a production quality software that I've recommended to and  J >>implemented at several of my customers sites. It replaces a real VAX to  >>the last decimal.  >> >> > E >    Unless the Windows kernel has something better to do for several D >    milliseconds.  I have not yet seen a version of Charon-VAX that, >    I would use in a real-time application. >  >   P In fairness, some wouldn't use a VAX in a real-time environment.  Don't hit me,  I'm not one of them.  P Some evaluation of the job would have some bearing on adequate hardware.  There O are obviously some real-time jobs that do not have a significant downside when  Q they fail.  As an example, a computer that monitors your driveway, and does some  O things when it determines a vehicle has entered the driveway.  For Sandia Labs  K et-al, it better not fail.  For your home where you're just playing around  M anyway, it doesn't matter.  Then there are all the uses between the extremes.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 13:45:49 -0700( From: tjonard@usa.net (Thomas A. Jonard)# Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? < Message-ID: <3ad0fd0.0408191245.69bb791c@posting.google.com>  d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIAENHDKAA.tom@kednos.com>... > < -----Original Message-----3 > < From: Thomas A. Jonard [mailto:tjonard@usa.net] + > < Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 7:01 AM  > < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' > < Subject: Re: charon vax emulator???  > <  > < C > < koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in  ; > < message news:<wbSN$CN20pfj@eisner.encompasserve.org>... B > < > In article <4123b682$0$12336$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm , > < Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> writes: > < > > I > < > > It is a production quality software that I've recommended to and  D > < > > implemented at several of my customers sites. It replaces a  > < real VAX to  > < > > the last decimal.  > < > >  > < > I > < >    Unless the Windows kernel has something better to do for several H > < >    milliseconds.  I have not yet seen a version of Charon-VAX that0 > < >    I would use in a real-time application. > < H > < Actually in real life you might have a different problem as does oneI > < of our current clients -- CharonVAX is too fast for the application.  I > < If your application was written assuming some things about the timing E > < of events and is tuned to the performance of a micro-VAX the much H > < higher performance of CharonVAX can require retuning the applicationJ > < to run on it.  The good news is that your VAX is much faster.  The badH > < news is that your qbus and qbus periperals are unchanged.  CombiningB > < new and old technology in this way has to be well thought out. > G > That is hard to imagine.  If you write that kind of code you may wish % > to consider a different profession.  > <snip>  A I didn't say I wrote the code or that I approve of it.  I am just E saying it has happened.  And the customer now owns the code and wants  to continue running it.    Tom   ( Thomas A. Jonard,  jonard@XLNsystems.com Senior Consultant, XLNsystems , XLNsystems -- VMS specialists, CharonVAX VAR   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 07:03:46 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <sZ6mBdquwrCI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <41242A11.9020206@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > R > In fairness, some wouldn't use a VAX in a real-time environment.  Don't hit me,  > I'm not one of them.  F    Well even I wouldn't use a VAX in a real-time environment if it wasF    running Ultrix.  And for some real-time jobs I'd use VAXeln instead,    of VMS.  Design of the kernel is crucial.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:32:23 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? = Message-ID: <HZ1Vc.12834$PG2.3037420@twister.tampabay.rr.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:  Y > In article <41242A11.9020206@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > R >>In fairness, some wouldn't use a VAX in a real-time environment.  Don't hit me,  >>I'm not one of them. >  > H >    Well even I wouldn't use a VAX in a real-time environment if it wasH >    running Ultrix.  And for some real-time jobs I'd use VAXeln instead. >    of VMS.  Design of the kernel is crucial.  H ONe of the main reasons to purchase VMS is Colorado Support.  You don't F get that with a Charon VAX.  You'd have to reproduce the problem on a 	 real VAX.        >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:30:34 +0200 + From: Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 5 Message-ID: <4124d5aa$0$2111$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>   F > Actually in real life you might have a different problem as does oneG > of our current clients -- CharonVAX is too fast for the application.  G > If your application was written assuming some things about the timing C > of events and is tuned to the performance of a micro-VAX the much F > higher performance of CharonVAX can require retuning the application > to run on it.     B Charon-VAX continues to be developed. In the latest kit, there is G auxiliary software that makes fast systems slow down so that CPU speed  D can be tuned to the appropriate peripheral speed. I think that this I warrants professional evaluation for systems that have applications that  @ rely on timing. (There is not much experience with this feature)  
 Wilm Boerhout    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:25:36 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? ' Message-ID: <41251AD0.8090602@MMaz.com>    Beach Runner wrote:   F >>> In fairness, some wouldn't use a VAX in a real-time environment.  & >>> Don't hit me, I'm not one of them. >>I >>    Well even I wouldn't use a VAX in a real-time environment if it was I >>    running Ultrix.  And for some real-time jobs I'd use VAXeln instead / >>    of VMS.  Design of the kernel is crucial.  > D > ONe of the main reasons to purchase VMS is Colorado Support.  You I > don't get that with a Charon VAX.  You'd have to reproduce the problem   > on a real VAX. > C Surely you are not speaking from first hand CHARON-VAX experience,  D because if you were, as I am, you would know otherwise and that you  statement is utter BS.   Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 13:05:16 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <zhc0o88egGIp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <3ad0fd0.0408190524.40170b0@posting.google.com>, tjonard@usa.net (Thomas A. Jonard) writes: > F > Actually in real life you might have a different problem as does oneG > of our current clients -- CharonVAX is too fast for the application.    C    Well designed applications are generally event driven, and if so G    the Charon-VAX should have been emulating NOPs until the application 
    needed it.   +    But we do all hire fresh-outs, don't we?    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 13:10:06 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <cKPFs0D7KZAK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <2ojstjFbm6hjU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes:  > Bob Koehler wrote: >>... F >>    Unless the Windows kernel has something better to do for severalE >>    milliseconds.  I have not yet seen a version of Charon-VAX that - >>    I would use in a real-time application.  > J > I would not use VMS in a true real-time application because of processesF > like SWAPPER that need to be there and need to be at a high priority  D    Process priority is not meaningfull at elevated IPL.  The swapperB    runs at priority 16, we always used 17 and higher for real-time
    processes.   E > but I know of VMS being used in almost real-time applications and I A > would not see any problem using CHARON-VAX there. If you have a F > real-time application and you are using VMS on a hardware VAX then I3 > would see no problems at all going to CHARON-VAX.   C    There's no way I can get deterministic interrupt-to-task latency B    with Windows underneath me.  It wasn't designed to do it.  It'sC    own latecny spread is worse than traditional UNIX.  VMS' latency D    spread won't match something like VxWorks, but it's much narrowerC    than UNIX.  It doesn't matter what you turn off, it's the design     of the kernel.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 13:12:57 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <YM0Xoo9xbki2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <faf7c984.0408190647.ea5becf@posting.google.com>, stan@stanq.com (Stanley F. Quayle) writes: C >> Unless the Windows kernel has something better to do for several D >> milliseconds.  I have not yet seen a version of Charon-VAX that I) >> would use in a real-time application.   > F > You're not the only one to have this concern.  Stay tuned for future > CHARON-VAX announcements.   E    I've long wondered why the Charon-VAX that runs on VMS under Alpha C    is specifically not recommended for this kind of application.  I G    would expect the interrupt-to-task latency spread of VMS on an Alpha %    to be narrower than that of a VAX.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:04:05 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk# Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? ) Message-ID: <cg2mi5$2ss$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   i In article <2ojstjFbm6hjU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> writes:  >Bob Koehler wrote:  >>... F >>    Unless the Windows kernel has something better to do for severalE >>    milliseconds.  I have not yet seen a version of Charon-VAX that - >>    I would use in a real-time application.  > I >I would not use VMS in a true real-time application because of processes F >like SWAPPER that need to be there and need to be at a high priority,D >but I know of VMS being used in almost real-time applications and I@ >would not see any problem using CHARON-VAX there. If you have aE >real-time application and you are using VMS on a hardware VAX then I 2 >would see no problems at all going to CHARON-VAX. >  SWAPPER runs at priority 16.= There are many higher real-time priorities available for use.   K The system permits real-time processes to run until either they voluntarily M enter a wait state or a higher priority real-time process becomes computable.     
 David Webb Security Team Leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 04:08:19 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>I Subject: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users 2 Message-ID: <8NWdnTvN7b82wrncRVn-sA@metrocast.net>  < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/hpworld_users_react/  K "a whopping 50 percent of [HP-UX] customers have no plans to move to Itanic L at all.  This leaves half of HP's high-end [HP-UX] customer base looking forJ a new home either on Linux systems, which HP does sell, or - more likely -' on IBM and Sun Microsystems' Unix kit."   D "HP's decision to kill off Tru64 all together has 53 per cent of itsD customers saying they are dissatisfied with HP's roadmap for the OS,I according to Interex. And, while OpenVMS will survive on Itanium, half of I HP's customers have no plans to migrate over to Intel's new chip, leaving & room for IBM and Sun to attack again."  I Other interesting tidbits as well, including the distinct impression that I Ann Livermore was blowing considerable amounts of smoke out of her nether L regions trying to turn sow's-ear-level Itanic acceptance into something moreF resembling a silk purse.  And then it goes into language problems with service off-shoring and SAP...  G And in http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17929 , after more Livermore D smoke, we have the following interesting statement (at least I don't# remember seeing it mentioned here):   G "Earlier this week, an article in the Wall St Journal claimed that HP's E Shane Robison had axed most of the high end R&D projects the firm was  working on."  K Way to go, Shane:  carrying on the tradition established with the Alphacide I in exemplary fashion.  Not that storage needs new products or anything...    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:35:50 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> M Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users , Message-ID: <aOCdnfgvXKYhMbncRVn-gA@igs.net>   Bill Todd wrote:> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/hpworld_users_react/ > F > "a whopping 50 percent of [HP-UX] customers have no plans to move toD > Itanic at all.  This leaves half of HP's high-end [HP-UX] customerD > base looking for a new home either on Linux systems, which HP doesB > sell, or - more likely - on IBM and Sun Microsystems' Unix kit." > F > "HP's decision to kill off Tru64 all together has 53 per cent of itsF > customers saying they are dissatisfied with HP's roadmap for the OS,C > according to Interex. And, while OpenVMS will survive on Itanium, E > half of HP's customers have no plans to migrate over to Intel's new 6 > chip, leaving room for IBM and Sun to attack again." > F > Other interesting tidbits as well, including the distinct impressionE > that Ann Livermore was blowing considerable amounts of smoke out of E > her nether regions trying to turn sow's-ear-level Itanic acceptance E > into something more resembling a silk purse.  And then it goes into 7 > language problems with service off-shoring and SAP...  > ? > And in http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17929 , after more B > Livermore smoke, we have the following interesting statement (at3 > least I don't remember seeing it mentioned here):  > D > "Earlier this week, an article in the Wall St Journal claimed thatC > HP's Shane Robison had axed most of the high end R&D projects the  > firm was working on."  > C > Way to go, Shane:  carrying on the tradition established with the F > Alphacide in exemplary fashion.  Not that storage needs new products > or anything...       ....the article.....   'Invent Wisely' 
 Is New Mantra  At Sober H-P   By PUI-WING TAM ) Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL  August 16, 2004; Page B1  F When she arrived at Hewlett-Packard Co. in 1999, Chief Executive CarlyK Fiorina exhorted workers with the company's venerable slogan, "Invent." But I the fate of at least one invention shows the difficult trade-offs the big E computer maker faces as it tries to cut a middle course in a fiercely  competitive market.   A Five years or so ago, H-P researchers conceived of a way to boost J data-storage capacity for low-power digital devices such as cellphones andJ cameras, by using electron beams to change the charge of individual atoms.E After making some technical breakthroughs in the technology, known as > atomic-resolution storage, H-P scaled up the research project.  B But H-P suddenly canceled the effort in mid-2003, leaving about 40L researchers in the lurch. Eventually the majority were reassigned, but aboutF a half-dozen ended up leaving the Palo Alto, Calif., technology giant.  L "We had made tremendous technical progress during the project, and we alwaysK want to be working on cutting-edge things," says Dick Lampman, who heads up I H-P Labs. "But we also need to be working on things that make sense." The I project simply lost its urgency, as other providers' storage technologies + progressed faster than H-P had anticipated.   F The project's end underscores the pressures on technology vendors in aH market with many rivals but only moderate growth. H-P, whose share priceD tumbled last week along with many other tech stocks on its report ofJ disappointing quarterly earnings and a warning of a weak quarter ahead, is% in a particularly difficult position.     G H-P is still trying to deliver the growth promised from its $19 billion L merger with Compaq Computer Corp. in 2002. Meanwhile, it is selling personalK computers in competition with commodity-style suppliers who spend little on J basic research, such as Dell Inc., of Round Rock, Texas. At the same time,F it also must keep up with International Business Machines Corp., whoseG products in fields such as data storage and semiconductor manufacturing & continue to push the state of the art.  J Determined to set a middle course, H-P has been moving away from inventionF for its own sake and focusing its research-and-development spending onK projects that promise faster profits. The push to target innovation springs F from an increasingly powerful division within H-P dubbed the Office ofD Strategy and Technology, which is aiming to be the company's central "innovation brokerage."   K Under chief technology officer Shane Robison, a former Compaq executive who G has the ear of Ms. Fiorina, the strategy group is taking steps to focus F invention, including creating a central pipeline to take in innovativeK proposals from smaller companies that may want to collaborate with H-P. The F group also has set up a hotline to which employees can phone in ideas.K "Invention only matters if you focus on the right thing," says Mr. Robison. 4 "It doesn't matter if it doesn't help our business."  G Mr. Robison's group recently completed an extensive audit of H-P's $3.6 L billion R&D budget to identify projects to kill and projects to keep. It hasJ terminated research into components, such as microprocessor chips, and hasJ changed the makeup of its labs, getting rid of many basic-research experts3 and hiring more software specialists, among others.   D H-P has narrowed and redirected research efforts into fields such asE security, management software and digital entertainment, where it has E visions of becoming an "end-to-end" supplier of not only hardware and K software used in the studio but also consumer electronics. The strategy and K technology office also is adding new incentives, including boosting the pay K and promotion structure for technologists and asking them to meet corporate ? customers more frequently in order to tailor products for them.   H To some extent, H-P is borrowing from IBM's playbook. In the late 1990s,I under then-CEO Louis V. Gerstner Jr., IBM too cut basic-research spending E and focused on projects with nearer-term potential. IBM's scientists, I though, still do basic exploration in fields such as magnetism, chemistry  and quantum theory.   J Such efforts to refocus on shorter-term goals often raise criticisms. LoriA Rosenkopf, associate professor of management at the University of G Pennsylvania's Wharton School in Philadelphia, says that when companies J direct innovation too much, they risk squelching the most explosive ideas.I "The more you build structures, the more people may feel forced to follow G the straight and narrow," she says. "Companies still need to leave some  slack for exploration."   G Adds John Seely Brown, the former director and chief scientist at Xerox G Corp.'s Palo Alto Research Center, "Companies have to define innovative K spaces to go after, but you don't want to define those spaces too tightly."   L At H-P, Mr. Robison's view is that with the tech landscape changing so fast,F innovation has to be planned in coordination with nearer-term businessH goals. H-P, in fact, has been hurt when it has placed big bets on future5 technologies that failed to live up to their promise.   I One example is Itanium, a microprocessor developed by H-P and Intel Corp. J Originally conceived as an engine for high-volume computers, the chip took? more than a decade to refine and was soon relegated to high-end L applications. And as H-P has urged current customers of its older systems toI upgrade to central computer servers based on Itanium, some have taken the * opportunity to move to competing products.  L Mr. Robison's team has different priorities. Earlier this year, coffee giantE Starbucks Corp. unveiled a renovated prototype store in Santa Monica, K Calif., equipped with H-P tablet computers. The PCs are connected to an H-P H server in the back of the store. Using the tablets, consumers can scrollJ through a list of digital songs stored on the server, pick tunes they likeI and then instantly burn them onto a compact disc. Still using the tablet, J they can design art for the CD cover and print it out on an H-P printer -- all for as little as $6.99.   F The idea is the result of collaboration between Mr. Robison's team andH Starbucks's entertainment division, says Brady Brewer, group manager forK music and entertainment at Starbucks. Since the music-enhanced store opened I in mid-March, customer traffic there has increased, potentially providing G Starbucks with an additional revenue stream, Mr. Brewer says. Starbucks J plans to equip several more stores with CD-burning technologies later this year.   I Still, analysts note it is likely to be years before such inventions make K significant contributions to H-P's revenue. Meanwhile, R&D spending remains J tight. After H-P and Compaq were combined in 2002, the resulting company'sL R&D spending amounted to $3.4 billion, less than the combined total of H-P'sJ $2.8 billion in R&D spending and Compaq's $1.5 billion. Since 2002, annual, spending has hovered at around $3.7 billion.  F H-P remains convinced that its R&D war chest is enough to shore up itsL ailing server and storage-system product lines that hurt its results for theI quarter that ended July 31. The focus now is on software: H-P researchers K are developing programs to help manage many different pieces of hardware as 9 the equivalent of a single system, saving on labor costs.   I But bureaucracy remains a hurdle. Last year, H-P procurement manager Venu F Nagali submitted to the strategy and technology office a paper about aG risk-assessment software system that would quantify risks for corporate D purchasers acquiring components. The paper won him a free trip to anL H-P-sponsored internal conference on innovation, where he presented the idea to H-P techies and executives.  E The result? His system was adopted throughout the company for its own J internal purchases. But more than a year later, Mr. Nagali's product stillL isn't anywhere near hitting the external market, even though a business planL has been in the works for months. "We're shooting for next year," Mr. Nagali says.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:46:31 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> M Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users , Message-ID: <TdGdnXipor1ZLLncRVn-jQ@igs.net>   Bill Todd wrote:> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/hpworld_users_react/ > F > "a whopping 50 percent of [HP-UX] customers have no plans to move toD > Itanic at all.  This leaves half of HP's high-end [HP-UX] customerD > base looking for a new home either on Linux systems, which HP doesB > sell, or - more likely - on IBM and Sun Microsystems' Unix kit." > F > "HP's decision to kill off Tru64 all together has 53 per cent of itsF > customers saying they are dissatisfied with HP's roadmap for the OS,C > according to Interex. And, while OpenVMS will survive on Itanium, E > half of HP's customers have no plans to migrate over to Intel's new 6 > chip, leaving room for IBM and Sun to attack again." > F > Other interesting tidbits as well, including the distinct impressionE > that Ann Livermore was blowing considerable amounts of smoke out of E > her nether regions trying to turn sow's-ear-level Itanic acceptance E > into something more resembling a silk purse.  And then it goes into 7 > language problems with service off-shoring and SAP...s > ? > And in http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17929 , after more B > Livermore smoke, we have the following interesting statement (at3 > least I don't remember seeing it mentioned here):w > D > "Earlier this week, an article in the Wall St Journal claimed thatC > HP's Shane Robison had axed most of the high end R&D projects theo > firm was working on."a >?C > Way to go, Shane:  carrying on the tradition established with thenF > Alphacide in exemplary fashion.  Not that storage needs new products > or anything...    L Just for fun I did a search on the WSJ site for 'OpenVMS' --- the result was 3 hits from 1997.i  > I believe that OpenVMS has been mentioned more frequently than@ that...certainly in the context of the 2001/02 Compaq-HP fiasco.  K Just goes to show you that you can't necessarily believe what is printed inr. the press or is uttered by company executives.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:41:46 GMTr% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>lM Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersf< Message-ID: <Kv6Vc.2313$R%5.1729@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>  / "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message a& news:aOCdnfgvXKYhMbncRVn-gA@igs.net...   [snip]   >aH > H-P remains convinced that its R&D war chest is enough to shore up itsK > ailing server and storage-system product lines that hurt its results for l > theHK > quarter that ended July 31. The focus now is on software: H-P researcherseK > are developing programs to help manage many different pieces of hardware M > as; > the equivalent of a single system, saving on labor costs.o  L Sounds like an OpenVMS Cluster.  Someone should call R&D and tell them they  already have it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:32:44 -0400(# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>nM Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersi, Message-ID: <uI-dnf1K-NqFkrjcRVn-sg@igs.net>   John Vottero wrote: 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( > news:aOCdnfgvXKYhMbncRVn-gA@igs.net... >a > [snip] >n >>E >> H-P remains convinced that its R&D war chest is enough to shore uplC >> its ailing server and storage-system product lines that hurt its? >> results for the@ >> quarter that ended July 31. The focus now is on software: H-PD >> researchers are developing programs to help manage many different >> pieces of hardware as< >> the equivalent of a single system, saving on labor costs. >-C > Sounds like an OpenVMS Cluster.  Someone should call R&D and tellr > them they already have it.  < Yeah but it wasn't INVENTed at HP......Digital did it first.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:22:33 +0800w, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>X Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users usersusers0 Message-ID: <87ekm3jm92.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  B > Way to go, Shane: carrying on the tradition established with theF > Alphacide in exemplary fashion.  Not that storage needs new products > or anything...  D HP, including the VMS group seem to be going all out to go backwardsC as fast as possible. This is called `industry standards'. Why would.2 they care about anything that looks to the future?   -- 2< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda..@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:17:14 +0000 (UTC) + From: "Rob H" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com>h Subject: Ford and Oracle0 Message-ID: <cg38ta$pi6$2@sparta.btinternet.com>   I found this article today. M My question is: what platform were they deploying Oracle Applications on and  I what platform is the "tried and tested" application on to which they are  L reverting, and how is that built? Are we talking VMS for tried and tested ,  or something else...    0 Ford kills 'Everest' procurement software system  I It pulled the plug on a system built around Oracle's 11i E-Business SuiteT       News Story by Marc L. SonginiP  B (http://www.computerworld.com/printthis/2004/0,4814,95335,00.html)    J AUGUST 18, 2004 (COMPUTERWORLD) - Despite four years in production and an K investment of millions of dollars, Ford Motor Co. is pulling the plug on a 5M major procurement software system built around Oracle Corp.'s 11i E-Business   Suite of applications.  M Ford spokesman Paul Wood today confirmed news reports from earlier this week 2K that said Ford had decided to unplug its Oracle procurement system, dubbed  C Everest, and collapse its purchasing processes around its original e- custom-written, mainframe-based applications.e  D "We completed an evaluation of all the production and nonproduction L procurement systems and made the decision to transition back to the proven,  current system," Wood said.3  L Everest began in 1999 at the height of the dot-com era, when companies were L routinely spending millions of dollars on software to automate their supply  chains -- with varying results.n  E According to Wood, Everest was a separate venture from the Web-based dF automotive exchange Ford helped create, called Covisint. He described > Everest as "very ambitious" but offered few details about its  implementation.t  I The Everest applications started to go live in 2000 and continued with a   "rolling launch," Wood said.  L He declined to say how many suppliers or units the implementation currently L supports but noted that the software is widely used in some form throughout J Ford. He also declined to say what problems or inefficiencies were in the G Oracle system, but sources indicated that Everest was hampered by poor   performance.  L It's now Ford's intention to migrate any relevant new features from Everest F to its legacy system, using in-house development staff. The mainframe G procurement software continued to run in coexistence with Everest, and  M company suppliers have used both sets of applications to handle supply chain i
 transactions..  K Wood declined to comment on how long it will take to shift completely back IJ to the legacy applications or how much money Everest will ultimately cost  the automaker.  J For its part, Oracle issued a terse comment: "Oracle continues to support L Ford on its back-to-basics strategic initiatives and IT projects. Given our B desire to honor a non-disclosure agreement in effect, it would be 6 inappropriate for Oracle to comment on any specifics."  4 A spokeswoman declined to offer further explanation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:19:03 -0700y+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>s Subject: Re: Ford and Oracle' Message-ID: <41253567.6010402@MMaz.com>e   Rob H wrote:   >I found this article today.N >My question is: what platform were they deploying Oracle Applications on and J >what platform is the "tried and tested" application on to which they are M >reverting, and how is that built? Are we talking VMS for tried and tested , e >or something else...- >0 >r1 >Ford kills 'Everest' procurement software systeme >rJ >It pulled the plug on a system built around Oracle's 11i E-Business Suite >m >s >e >News Story by Marc L. Songini >3C >(http://www.computerworld.com/printthis/2004/0,4814,95335,00.html)i >: > K >AUGUST 18, 2004 (COMPUTERWORLD) - Despite four years in production and an lL >investment of millions of dollars, Ford Motor Co. is pulling the plug on a N >major procurement software system built around Oracle Corp.'s 11i E-Business  >Suite of applications.. >  a >nA What 'bugs' me about articles, like this, is the instant loss of tB credibility.  For instance, they could not have been running this G project in production for four years on 11i simply because 11i has not cG been out for four years, so really, what was the cause of the failure? oE Trust me, I'm not an Oracle fan, but the way this article starts and aH ends, it appears to be placing the blame for this failure on Oracle and I not an otherwise flawed design and/or implementation specification which tD could also include poor choices for hardware and OS underpinnings...     Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:18:02 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Getting FORKed Was: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <87isbfjmgl.fsf_-_@k9.prep.synonet.com>t  * David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  C > If the VMS developers were so aware of Unix, then why didn't theydD > address FORK long ago, which can be very useful in some instances.E > VMS programmers could use FORK, and not just for porting Unix code. ? > I know of several things I've done that could have used FORK.   C What is the use of FORK? Outside a unix implementation that is. For B a different type of system, which VMS is, FORK is about as usefull as tits on a bull.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:35:29 -0400-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t< Subject: Re: Getting FORKed Was: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <QoOdnSEbpf3ckrjcRVn-sA@igs.net>   Paul Repacholi wrote:?, > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >sD >> If the VMS developers were so aware of Unix, then why didn't theyE >> address FORK long ago, which can be very useful in some instances.@F >> VMS programmers could use FORK, and not just for porting Unix code.@ >> I know of several things I've done that could have used FORK. >nE > What is the use of FORK? Outside a unix implementation that is. ForrD > a different type of system, which VMS is, FORK is about as usefull > as tits on a bull.    H What use you ask? So you can port buggy unix user apps that needs kernelI mode privileges in order to run to a secure VMS environment. This will ate@ long last give Andrew his hoped-for number of CERTS against VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:38:14 -0400h' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> , Subject: Re: Help with MOP of Printserver 170 Message-ID: <mps0gc.6f2.ln@dadsys2.fuller.local>   Hans Blom wrote:   > Hello all,F > I'm trying to get an old LPS17 back into working order. I've ran allH > the commandprocedures, verified it's in the MOP client config and that> > MOP is enabled. Loading the printer just makes it accept theI > LPS_PRINTSERVER17.SYS, the display indicates that it's loaded, but thentE > nothing more! No load requests, nothing for the rest of the config.a! > OpenVMS: 7.2-1, DECNet Phase V.c >   I Do you have the LPS management server process running (LPS_printer-name)?a   -- r           Stum   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:59:17 +0200t% From: Hans Blom <hanblo@netscape.net> , Subject: Re: Help with MOP of Printserver 177 Message-ID: <ldYUc.120497$0V3.75909@roc.nntpserver.com>,   Yes,3 and in the lps$support:lpslog.lps17c logfile I get:A  = %SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable.   Heaps of them. Regards:   Hans   Stuart Fuller wrote:   > Hans Blom wrote: >  >  >>Hello all,F >>I'm trying to get an old LPS17 back into working order. I've ran allH >>the commandprocedures, verified it's in the MOP client config and that> >>MOP is enabled. Loading the printer just makes it accept theI >>LPS_PRINTSERVER17.SYS, the display indicates that it's loaded, but then E >>nothing more! No load requests, nothing for the rest of the config. ! >>OpenVMS: 7.2-1, DECNet Phase V.  >> >  > K > Do you have the LPS management server process running (LPS_printer-name)?  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:46:26 +0100D< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: HP Away4 Message-ID: <4123ce3f$0$198$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  < "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0408180326.4e30f681@posting.google.com...>6 > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message ; > news:<d7791aa1.0408171532.3d180428@posting.google.com>...UM >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> n@ >> wrote in message news:<cftc6o$7hm$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>@ >> remember, a box is only as good as the os that runs on it ...2 >> OpenVMS complimented alpha and soon itanium ...A >> neither IBM or sun has any os to compliment their hardware ...4 >:7 > I think Andrew knows that OpenVMS is a good product ! 5 > He is not in this news group wasting his time ! ;-)27 > But OVMS still expensive ! I think a good way to selle: > OpenVMS systems (Itanium) is delivery it as an appliance= > product - not exclusevily of course. For Telecom operators,o> > Financial, etc ... Put a lot of Oracle, BEA, Attunity inside5 > and sell the system(s) like a kit to power-and-run.a< > Like the NetApp OS.  May be with the Itanium Blades we can > have a good surprise ! >p >a	 > Regardsr >o > FC     Fabio,  I Can you phone Servix in Brazil (they sell Itanium and Alphas) on 11 3619 aK 3414 please? Get a quote for a rx1600, they are 1U high. I really would be  M interested to know how much one would be from them, I want to understand the i? scale of the high import charges you have previously mentioned.e  L Post back here the cost, go for an entry level config, 1 CPU and 1GB of RAM.   Thanks   Alex     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:21:58 +0100M< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: HP Away4 Message-ID: <41249b67$0$210$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  < "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0408190342.4b3fd5ad@posting.google.com...uJ > "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote in message 2 > news:<4123ce3f$0$198$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>...> >> "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message: >> news:f30679fb.0408180326.4e30f681@posting.google.com...8 >> > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message> >> > news:<d7791aa1.0408171532.3d180428@posting.google.com>...( >> >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy - >> >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>hC >> >> wrote in message news:<cftc6o$7hm$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...r >> >>yC >> >> remember, a box is only as good as the os that runs on it ... 5 >> >> OpenVMS complimented alpha and soon itanium ...iD >> >> neither IBM or sun has any os to compliment their hardware ... >> >: >> > I think Andrew knows that OpenVMS is a good product !8 >> > He is not in this news group wasting his time ! ;-): >> > But OVMS still expensive ! I think a good way to sell= >> > OpenVMS systems (Itanium) is delivery it as an appliance<@ >> > product - not exclusevily of course. For Telecom operators,A >> > Financial, etc ... Put a lot of Oracle, BEA, Attunity insidee8 >> > and sell the system(s) like a kit to power-and-run.? >> > Like the NetApp OS.  May be with the Itanium Blades we cann >> > have a good surprise !  >> > >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > FCA >> >>	 >> Fabio,e >>K >> Can you phone Servix in Brazil (they sell Itanium and Alphas) on 11 3619sK >> 3414 please? Get a quote for a rx1600, they are 1U high. I really would 1 >> be5L >> interested to know how much one would be from them, I want to understand  >> theB >> scale of the high import charges you have previously mentioned. >>K >> Post back here the cost, go for an entry level config, 1 CPU and 1GB of S >> RAM.y >>	 >> Thankst >> >> Alexo >e >r	 > Ok Alex  >>? > Wait a few hours ! :-) By the way I know  another reseller inr< > Brazil: www.decatron.com.br ! They are in Rio de Janeiro ! > May I quote them ? >l	 > Regardsr >- > FC   Fabio,  I Yes why not get a quote from them too, I like their name with DEC in it, eK although unlike Servix  they are not mentioning VMS on their website (from  ! admittedly a quick look through).g   Cheers   Alex L   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:16:15 +0100a9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com>  Subject: Re: HP Away0 Message-ID: <cg2job$2cj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  H > "Andrew Harrison" <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message, > news:cfvk0k$10f$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  > ...V >  > C >>And there are areas where Solaris is considerably more functional C >>than OpenVMS most of the key upcoming features in Solaris 10 like B >>dtrace and ZFS are a long long way ahead of anything on offer in
 >>OpenVMS. >  > M > Well, if more information were available about ZFS, we'd at least have sometH > basis for evaluating that assertion.  So if any new public papers have* > emerged, pointers to them would be nice. >  > - bill  = I don't remember if I sent this reference out before if I didc
 my apologies.a  A http://tesla.hpl.hp.com/self-manage03/Finals/henson-self-tune.pdf   @ DFS aka ZFS will be released as part of the Sun Software ExpressB program later this year, I will send you refs to the documentation when this happens.   Regards  Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 16:33:12 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: HP Away= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408191533.77b9189b@posting.google.com>n  q Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message news:<cg2job$2cj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...e > ? > I don't remember if I sent this reference out before if I did- > my apologies.p > C > http://tesla.hpl.hp.com/self-manage03/Finals/henson-self-tune.pdf- > B > DFS aka ZFS will be released as part of the Sun Software ExpressD > program later this year, I will send you refs to the documentation > when this happens. > 	 > Regardsa > Andrew Harrisone  7 don't bother, because nobody is porting to your garbageu. systems and cert of the week club slowaris ...   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 16:33:37 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: HP Away= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408191533.7f3bfdb6@posting.google.com>a  q Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message news:<cg2job$2cj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > ? > I don't remember if I sent this reference out before if I didi > my apologies.  > C > http://tesla.hpl.hp.com/self-manage03/Finals/henson-self-tune.pdf  > B > DFS aka ZFS will be released as part of the Sun Software ExpressD > program later this year, I will send you refs to the documentation > when this happens. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisone  7 don't bother, because nobody is porting to your garbager. systems and cert of the week club slowaris ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:30:14 -0400e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e Subject: Re: HP Away, Message-ID: <xtudnc7lxqq4ybjcRVn-gQ@igs.net>   Bob Ceculski wrote:hF > Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message. > news:<cg2job$2cj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>@ >> I don't remember if I sent this reference out before if I did >> my apologies. >>D >> http://tesla.hpl.hp.com/self-manage03/Finals/henson-self-tune.pdf >>C >> DFS aka ZFS will be released as part of the Sun Software Express E >> program later this year, I will send you refs to the documentation  >> when this happens.x >>
 >> Regards >> Andrew Harrison > 9 > don't bother, because nobody is porting to your garbage 0 > systems and cert of the week club slowaris ...     Bob,  I Quit blowing so hard. I'm sure Andrew is a perfectly nice guy, aside fromoJ the fact that he works for Sun...but give him a break... he probably has a3 mortgage and needs to eat just like the rest of us.e  L Solaris is perfectly adequate for those who don't know any better. I can seeC the new Sun advertising campaign now, "Solaris & Linux. The perfect 6 combination for all you ignorant 'suits' and IT guys."  L The real problem is that HP refuses to educate those who need to know better   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 03:04:00 GMTh  From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: HP Away* Message-ID: <41256A20.7090800@prodigy.net>   John Smith wrote:a   > Bob Ceculski wrote:i > F >>Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> wrote in message. >>news:<cg2job$2cj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... >>@ >>>I don't remember if I sent this reference out before if I did >>>my apologies. >>> D >>>http://tesla.hpl.hp.com/self-manage03/Finals/henson-self-tune.pdf >>>tC >>>DFS aka ZFS will be released as part of the Sun Software ExpressrE >>>program later this year, I will send you refs to the documentationa >>>when this happens.: >>> 
 >>>Regards >>>Andrew Harrison >>9 >>don't bother, because nobody is porting to your garbage 0 >>systems and cert of the week club slowaris ... >  >  >  > Bob, > K > Quit blowing so hard. I'm sure Andrew is a perfectly nice guy, aside from_L > the fact that he works for Sun...but give him a break... he probably has a5 > mortgage and needs to eat just like the rest of us.n > N > Solaris is perfectly adequate for those who don't know any better. I can seeE > the new Sun advertising campaign now, "Solaris & Linux. The perfect"8 > combination for all you ignorant 'suits' and IT guys." > N > The real problem is that HP refuses to educate those who need to know better >  >   E I think another real problem is that they showed the wrong people thea door.P     -- eD The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.s   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2004 23:01:13 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <5A1jCmTQ06aP@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  W In article <41236D87.2080600@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:d > Bob Ceculski wrote:h > g >> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICELLDKAA.tom@kednos.com>...s >> eG >>>I only just yesterday spoke with someone very close who is in seniori >>>managmentO >>>at one of the largest financial firms in the world, and they have a plethorat >>>of N >>>systems, Suns, Tru64+sybase, OpenVMS  and for their new procurement he told >>>me K >>>that the criteria were in HP's favor over Sun and IBM, but in the end itt >>>appeared I >>>it was going to IBM.  I extolled the virtues of VMS,  but Sybase was a  >>>problem andL >>>he couldn't sell VMS to management and the future with Itanium looked far
 >>>too risky.t >>>2/ >>>BTW, why is Sybase not supported on OpenVMS?r >>>  >> 9B >> because someone paid them off not to, or they are too stupid to >> want business ...  H Actually, Sybase came close to bankruptcy and had to cut back the numberF of platforms they supported.  The big thing with VMS was clusters, andK in a techical sense (which might not have been the reason for the decision)oN Sybase was at a severe disadvantage on VMS compared to Rdb and Oracle Classic,F since the innards of the Sybase SQL Server depended extremely on usingE shared memory between server processes.  That is _not_ something thatnD benefits from clustering (and backyard designers please don't try toD imagine a cluster-interconnect global section -- the important thing is efficiency).   C The bad thig is that Sybase made this decision just when Galaxy wasbA coming out -- exactly what Sybase needed for better efficiency onn
 big iron !   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:06:29 -0400l( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <41242745.2020308@tsoft-inc.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:   s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<cg04ls$6c7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...p > 5 >>... as far as IBM, why would anyone want to go withc >>B >>>a company that has lousy os's and needs to try to promote linuxA >>>as the next best thing since the toaster to cover up their ownh6 >>>shortcomings ... lot of stupidity in this world ... >>>dI >>AIX is actually a pretty competent UNIX, ZOS is also a pretty competentnJ >>OS and there is nothing lousy about either of them but then I doubt very, >>much it you have any experience of either. >>	 >>Regardst >>Andrew Harrisonl >> > < > they ARE lousy and they are convuluted just like all other< > unix/linux ... the VMS creators were aware of unix and all? > of its shortcomings when they designed VMS and thankfully so!u >   O Wow!  boob must be really worked up.  This is the second triple posting of his  P that I have seen.  Mashing that mouse button so hard that he's getting a triple  contact.  O If the VMS developers were so aware of Unix, then why didn't they address FORK hQ long ago, which can be very useful in some instances.  VMS programmers could use gN FORK, and not just for porting Unix code.  I know of several things I've done  that could have used FORK.   Dave   -- i4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roado Vanderbilt, PA  15486o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:06:09 +0100e9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com>r( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....0 Message-ID: <cg21iu$pba$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: s > Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<cg04ls$6c7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...i > 5 >>... as far as IBM, why would anyone want to go with$ >>B >>>a company that has lousy os's and needs to try to promote linuxA >>>as the next best thing since the toaster to cover up their owns6 >>>shortcomings ... lot of stupidity in this world ... >>I >>AIX is actually a pretty competent UNIX, ZOS is also a pretty competentmJ >>OS and there is nothing lousy about either of them but then I doubt very, >>much it you have any experience of either. >>	 >>Regardsm >>Andrew Harrison  >  > < > they ARE lousy and they are convuluted just like all other< > unix/linux ... the VMS creators were aware of unix and all? > of its shortcomings when they designed VMS and thankfully so!,; So you say but then you have no experience on which to baseh) your claim and thus you fail to convince.   9 Incedentally ZOS is not a UNIX OS its MVS rebranded. Justh: another reason to suggest that you don't know what you are talking about.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 07:06:57 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <34hcGwt8OQqC@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  r  Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> wrote in message news:<cg04ls$6c7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... > I > AIX is actually a pretty competent UNIX, ZOS is also a pretty competentwJ > OS and there is nothing lousy about either of them but then I doubt very, > much it you have any experience of either.  G    Is that why they say AIX stands for "Ain't unIX"?  I've used AIX, it H    is a fairly competent OS for something that very much resembles UNIX.E    Of all the UNIX and UNIX-lookalikes out there, AIX is also the one     which is the most different.,   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 07:14:01 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <QicE1IBw6XHF@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  W In article <41242745.2020308@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:a > Q > Wow!  boob must be really worked up.  This is the second triple posting of his xR > that I have seen.  Mashing that mouse button so hard that he's getting a triple 
 > contact. > Q > If the VMS developers were so aware of Unix, then why didn't they address FORK sS > long ago, which can be very useful in some instances.  VMS programmers could use tP > FORK, and not just for porting Unix code.  I know of several things I've done  > that could have used FORK.  L    They had a UNIX-like fork in other OS's at DEC, like TOPS-10 and TOPS-20.H    From a high level design, TOPS in many ways resemebles UNIX with it'sE    fork, and it's 2 level execution modes.  When VMS was designed DECh?    was well aware of the disadvantages of that approach and theUI    advantages of the RSX-like high level design on the system the VAX andrG    VMS was supposed to replace.  They correctly built VAX and VMS to be D    an excellent replacement for PDP-11 running RSX, and sold tons of    them.  G    Sure, fork has it's uses.  But then so do threads, and everybody hasdG    threads now.  I've not yet seen a fork that couldn't be done just ask@    well either as a separate process or as a thread.   I've done?    everything that ever came up without ever needing a fork ando@    converted UNIX fork based processing to portable thread based    processing.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 10:36:00 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <b9NZVeoLNsP5@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  q In article <QicE1IBw6XHF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:r   >    Sure, fork has it's uses.   So do ASTs.i  I >                               But then so do threads, and everybody hasoI >    threads now.  I've not yet seen a fork that couldn't be done just as B >    well either as a separate process or as a thread.   I've doneA >    everything that ever came up without ever needing a fork andiB >    converted UNIX fork based processing to portable thread based >    processing.  F Perhaps those who want VMS to look like Unix should ask their favorite Unix vendor for AST support.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:35:24 +0100s9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....0 Message-ID: <cg2hbo$1ga$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:i^ > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<41242745.2020308@tsoft-inc.com>... > Q >>If the VMS developers were so aware of Unix, then why didn't they address FORK vS >>long ago, which can be very useful in some instances.  VMS programmers could use  P >>FORK, and not just for porting Unix code.  I know of several things I've done  >>that could have used FORK. >> >>Dave >  > > > and I know several thousand things I can do on VMS that unix9 > can't ... the top two being security and clustering ...t  9 Since everyone except you knows that UNIX can do security-6 and Clustering the 998 things that you think can do on, VMS but cannot on UNIX better be compelling.   regardso Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 13:17:32 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <i2ZpZBXaxGxF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <cg2hbo$1ga$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> writes: > ; > Since everyone except you knows that UNIX can do securityi8 > and Clustering the 998 things that you think can do on. > VMS but cannot on UNIX better be compelling.      ROTFLOL.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:57:39 -0400 & From: "Alex" <vms@iss-integration.com>. Subject: Legato vs VMS Backup -- Recover Speed0 Message-ID: <V9idnc3wB73N6rjcRVn-gw@comcast.com>  J Are there any VMS users who benchmarked a recent Legato client (6.0.1-D or; 6.0.1-C) restore performance against the native VMS backup?t  ? I am looking for timing estimates for a disaster recovery test.    Thanks,r Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:24:30 -0400e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Multia questionss, Message-ID: <41242B7E.4070601@tsoft-inc.com>   Keith A. Lewis wrote:/  J > I'm considering buying a Multia to use as a satellite node in a hobbyist% > cluster, and I have some questions.e > N > 1.  Will Multia boot VMS using MOP over ethernet?  I saw a Multia FAQ sayingK > MOP could be used for loading firmware upgrades so I would guess yes, butD# > maybe somebody here has tried it.. > C > 2.  Does the MMOV audio software work on the Multia audio device?h > N > 3.  What's the latest version of VMS anybody has successfully run on Multia? > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. >   N Ok, this is an opinion, and we're all allowed some highly prejudiced opinions.  O Buying?  I wouldn't mess with a Multia that was free.  If you're buying, can't iR you find a nice working AlphaStation, even an EV4 would be better than the Multia.  , If you're looking for a challenge, well, Ok.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin RoadJ Vanderbilt, PA  15486c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:15:55 -0700 & From: Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net> Subject: Re: Multia questionsp, Message-ID: <cg2n6h01e4m@enews1.newsguy.com>   Keith:  F Unless you like pain and anguish, do yourself a favor, bag the Multia G and pick up a good used PWS off of eBay.  I've bought 3 or 4 PWS500A's  H for less than $150 each. Of course they needed different graphics cards B and SCSI cards because they were intended for the Linux/NT market.H I've three Multias collecting dust in my "Big Pile 'O DEC", fun to play F with, but not hardly worth the time or effort for serious work.  I've E personally managed to get OpenVMS-7.2-1 running on one of them for a a< little while, didn't take long to replace it with a PWS500A.   TomC   Keith A. Lewis wrote:n  J > I'm considering buying a Multia to use as a satellite node in a hobbyist% > cluster, and I have some questions.s > N > 1.  Will Multia boot VMS using MOP over ethernet?  I saw a Multia FAQ sayingK > MOP could be used for loading firmware upgrades so I would guess yes, buts# > maybe somebody here has tried it.u > C > 2.  Does the MMOV audio software work on the Multia audio device?r > N > 3.  What's the latest version of VMS anybody has successfully run on Multia? > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:19:52 -0700d3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>  Subject: Re: Multia questionsw. Message-ID: <4124FD58.4010906@Flying-Disk.com>   Tom Crabtree wrote:  > Keith: > H > Unless you like pain and anguish, do yourself a favor, bag the Multia I > and pick up a good used PWS off of eBay.  I've bought 3 or 4 PWS500A's  J > for less than $150 each. Of course they needed different graphics cards D > and SCSI cards because they were intended for the Linux/NT market.  8 If you are in the Los Angeles area, I will *give* you an9 AlphaStation 600 5/266.   All you have to do is come picke; it up (call first).   I installed the latest firmware and It< verified that it works by installing VMS v7.3-2 on it.  Just1 add your license PAKs and you're off and running!1  > To others:  If Keith doesn't (or can't) take it, this offer is open to anyone else.  ) Remove the obvious word before e-mailing:u  = -- Alan E. Frisbie             Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.comP3 -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc.   323-256-2575 (voice)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:00:15 -04002( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>M Subject: Re: Open source version of VMS, was: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....p, Message-ID: <412425CF.6020700@tsoft-inc.com>   Simon Clubley wrote:  ^ > In article <4120E0DB.5FD1F6FF@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I >>So an argument could be made with the "use it or lose it". Since HP has M >>clearly shown that VSM is not part of its core business and definitely doesvI >>not leverage VMS's potential (one could even argue that they try NOT toaN >>leverage VMS' potential), then in court, it might be easier to argue that HPN >>isn't protecting its intellectual property for VMS, especially when you lookP >>at the historical "giveaways" that the owner of VMS has made (donating code to. >>Microsoft in exchange for nothing concrete). >> > N > I'm not suggesting that someone improperly take HP intellectual property [1]L > and use it in a open source version of VMS; I would strongly oppose anyone
 > doing that.r > H > My concern is more along the lines of HP using the threat of a lawsuitK > (when there may not be any proper grounds for a lawsuit [ie: pull a SCO])rM > to shutdown a open source VMS project. I think that HP are much better thanaI > to try that, but in the current software lawsuit climate there's alwaysa > that tiny doubt. >  > Simon. > L > [1] As I understand it, and I am not a lawyer so I would really appreciateM > a correction if I am wrong, an implementation of an interface (like RMS) islN > protected by copyright, but copyright cannot be used to stop someone writing: > a different implementation that uses the same interface. > O > That protection would be offered by trade secret status or patents neither ofv8 > which I have ever heard applied to something like RMS. >  >   O There is the concept of 'reverse engineering'.  Unless you've agreed to not do iN so, it's Ok to take something that is commonly known and reverse engineer it. H So, if the RMS functionality is published, and available to anyone, and Q accessing it doesn't require you to agree to not reverse engineer it, you should mK be Ok.  Not that this is legal advice, just how I understand the principal.v  K If you read the license on lots of shrink wrap PC software (does anyone do a> that?) you may see something about not reverse engineering it.   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadr Vanderbilt, PA  15486c   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2004 23:03:40 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e0 Subject: Re: output of simultaneous subprocesses3 Message-ID: <UM$xuOxAGNV8@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  q In article <477e0934.0408171441.27f629f5@posting.google.com>, usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer) writes:-j > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<dZRpGl+A3sNY@eisner.encompasserve.org>...: >> > One last tidbit of information that might be helpful: >> > -G >> > If the second subprocess runs under the same username as the firsteI >> > subprocess, both subprocess's output appear in the parent's log file2J >> > (regardless of the username the parent process is running under).  IfB >> > the second subprocess has a different username than the firstE >> > subprocess, again, regardless of the username of the parent, thei >> > output is lost. >> n >> Username, or UIC ?e >> a > G > If the second subprocess has a different username, even if it has thelF > same UIC code, the output is lost.  If the second subprocess has theF > same username and UIC code, the output appears in the log file.  Whe? > run interactively, all output goes correctly to the terminal.s > F > I suspect the first subprocess to write to the file via cout back toG > the parent somehow is marking the channel as owned by that username. s  B No, Usernames do not own things on VMS.  UICs do and processes do.  H > For some reason, the parent can continue to write to the log file, butF > when another subprocess of a different username attempts to write toD > the log file (via stdout to the parent), access is denied.  Again, > this is just a suspicion.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:44:36 -0400,% From: Sarah Page <sarah.page@sas.com>a3 Subject: Re: Problems w/ WRITERCHECK on QIOW() Cally8 Message-ID: <hfi9i01f123hsqq42aunk0a80bcvg8od39@4ax.com>  @ The mystery channel was unaccounted for in the SDA - very usefulE information - thanks.  The unexpected DCL behavior that you mentionedpD is looking more and more likely.  I may try not running loginout.exeA in my detached process, and see if keeping DCL out of the pictureiF helps.  Problem is I think I'm going to need DCL. in process 2 at some point.  . On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:06:33 +0100, John Laird# <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote:-  K >On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:58:56 -0400, Sarah Page <sarah.page@sas.com> wrote:i >rE >>What's wrong here?  Who's go the mystery write channel(s) assigned?  >.L >Use ANAL/SYS and SHOW PROC/CHAN/ID=<process 2> to see if process 2 has moreC >channels assigned than you expected.  You may be getting bitten byUC >unexpected DCL behaviour which is not really your business, is notyM >documented and may change at any time.  Could you not redesign the system sopF >that the communication mailbox is *not* the one also being shared forK >sys$input but is a separate mailbox ?  That way, you have complete controls* >and everything should work as you expect. >sL >For mailbox debugging, you may find Neill Clift's MBOX utility very useful:F >see the link on http://www.yrl.co.uk/free/  My apologies if it reallyK >doesn't work beyond 7.1 - Neill now works for Microsoft and doesn't do anyu >VMS fiddling any more.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:28:47 +0100e- From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk>s3 Subject: Re: Problems w/ WRITERCHECK on QIOW() Call-8 Message-ID: <reo9i09r6dc59ofea0qg1jgjfvg0s06rln@4ax.com>  J On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:44:36 -0400, Sarah Page <sarah.page@sas.com> wrote:  A >The mystery channel was unaccounted for in the SDA - very usefulp >information - thanks.  J Did you mean unaccounted or accounted ?  I wouldn't expect SDA to lie, butI equally an inconsistent refcnt would also be worrying - temporary devicesr might never be deleted.s  / >The unexpected DCL behavior that you mentioned E >is looking more and more likely.  I may try not running loginout.exedB >in my detached process, and see if keeping DCL out of the pictureG >helps.  Problem is I think I'm going to need DCL. in process 2 at someK >point.   C You can still keep DCL - I was suggesting that you avoid using your L communication mailbox as the sys$input device for the second process, that's all.   -- i: Since I've used all of my sick days, I'm calling in dead.    Mail john rather than nospam...-   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2004 19:54:17 GMT. From: Wilko Bulte From: <wb@freebie.xs4all.nl>% Subject: Re: questions about TZ88N-VA7? Message-ID: <41250569$0$53057$e4fe514c@dreader5.news.xs4all.nl>r  n In <cg2ruh$vje$1@online.de> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  7 >I have acquired a TZ88n-VA DLT drive.  Some questions:   F >Will this work in a BA-350 shelf?  (I think the "VA" denotes that it H >should as far as being 8-bit etc; I suppose cooling is not an issue?)     Correct, VA is 8 bit.n  H >Should it work with all versions of VMS in the 7.3-1--8.2 range?  What J >sort of media can it write?  What sort of media can it read?  (I believe    Write DLT III and IV   Read down to 2.6GB IIRC-   IIRC.. its been a while.  C >there are DLT-1, DLT-2, DLT-3, DLT-4 etc.)  I think that even the HG >smallest DLT tape will be enough for me; what do folks recommend with nJ >respect to a) cost and b) longevity (both of the physical tape itself as A >well as being able to read it in the future from another drive)?    Get a III or IV cartridge.   W/   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:36:01 +0000 (UTC)tP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)! Subject: questions about TZ88N-VAn$ Message-ID: <cg2ruh$vje$1@online.de>  6 I have acquired a TZ88n-VA DLT drive.  Some questions:  E Will this work in a BA-350 shelf?  (I think the "VA" denotes that it  G should as far as being 8-bit etc; I suppose cooling is not an issue?)   G Should it work with all versions of VMS in the 7.3-1--8.2 range?  What cI sort of media can it write?  What sort of media can it read?  (I believe aB there are DLT-1, DLT-2, DLT-3, DLT-4 etc.)  I think that even the F smallest DLT tape will be enough for me; what do folks recommend with I respect to a) cost and b) longevity (both of the physical tape itself as m@ well as being able to read it in the future from another drive)?   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:41:13 +0000 (UTC)7P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)% Subject: Re: questions about TZ88N-VAu$ Message-ID: <cg3399$af3$1@online.de>  E In article <41250569$0$53057$e4fe514c@dreader5.news.xs4all.nl>, Wilkoo+ Bulte From: <wb@freebie.xs4all.nl> writes: c  F > In <cg2ruh$vje$1@online.de> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip* Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:   9 > >I have acquired a TZ88n-VA DLT drive.  Some questions:o > H > >Will this work in a BA-350 shelf?  (I think the "VA" denotes that it J > >should as far as being 8-bit etc; I suppose cooling is not an issue?)   >  > Correct, VA is 8 bit.l > J > >Should it work with all versions of VMS in the 7.3-1--8.2 range?  What L > >sort of media can it write?  What sort of media can it read?  (I believe  >  > Write DLT III and IV >  > Read down to 2.6GB IIRC  >  > IIRC.. its been a while. > E > >there are DLT-1, DLT-2, DLT-3, DLT-4 etc.)  I think that even the lI > >smallest DLT tape will be enough for me; what do folks recommend with aL > >respect to a) cost and b) longevity (both of the physical tape itself as C > >well as being able to read it in the future from another drive)?m >  > Get a III or IV cartridge.   Thanks for the info.  H I have mostly SCSI-1 (5 Mb/s), some fast narrow SCSI-2 (10 MB/s), mostlyF VA disks internal or in BA350 or BA353 shelves, some VW disks in BA356G shelves (all of these are on the 10 Mb/s SCSI).  When doing a backup touH the DLT system mentioned above from a) a disk on the same SCSI bus, b) a? disk  with a direct connection to the same machine and c) to angC MSCP-served disk, what will be the bottleneck: disk speed, SCSI-bus H speed, tape-drive speed or network speed (only a possibility in the last case, obviously)?0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:28:40 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <00A36935.DBFDA36A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <b096a4ee.0408181828.7a95deaa@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:Y >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A368AD.895B28AD@SendSpamHere.ORG>...hq >> In article <b096a4ee.0408180856.29328185@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: z >> >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<bOAm7GU1UAHY@eisner.encompasserve.org>...] >> >> In article <4120D4FD.1060503@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >[...]/ >> >> > Might then give you a prompt string of:  >> >> >  >> >> > 1$1AccountingUsersDisk:[UserDirectory.AccountingUsers.JoshaAlexanderWellington.AccountsPayable.SpecialAccounts.ReallyBadWelchers.FiscalYear2000]>n >> >> >  >> >> M >> >>    Yeah, I'm always learning new shell man pages because someone set upt! >> >>    the default prompt to beA >> >> \ >> >> somehost:/export/users/namegoeshere/projectname/facilityname/modulename/programname/ > >> >> K >> >>    and I want to shut it off.  I do like to actually see the commandsl >> >>    I'm typing. >> > >> >H >> >Well, it would be usable if you could include a <LF><CR> (or two) atH >> >the end of the prompt string. Of course, with VMS you still have the >> >32-char limit. >> >H >> >Not that I would want the default directory in my prompt string, but >> >for someone who does...r >> >G >> >Actually, I'd like to see an option to add the time to the prompt. e >> > >> >JMHO >>   >>   >> With continuous time update?a > F >No. I want to be able to come back to a SmarTerm session and at leastG >have a clue as to when things happened. I want the time to be the time,G >that the prompt appeared on the screen. Someone mailed me a utility toi  >try but I haven't tried it yet. >eH >> FYI, with XPDNT, you can include the last 32 characters in the promptH >> string.  It can also be used to update the DECterm title bar with theH >> current default (up to about 60 characters of it) or have is write in >> the 25th "status" line. > E >I don't have anything to run DECwindows on and I don't have any realt >need for DECwindows.n  9 Does your terminal emulator support the 25th status line?s  I >> It also maintains a list of prior defaults which can be navigated withr5 >> a utility that is launched via a hot key sequence.h >OD >Cool. But I already have my TO.COM which does the same and more. OnF >VMS I live in a character-cell world, and for my job, that's probablyG >best. The only thing I think I would like a VMS GUI for is to navigatesE >directory trees. Selecting a file would make it the equivalence namelB >of the logical name FILE so that I could then run a succession of >commands on said FILE.i   Who said this was DECwindows?e   -- i< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.a --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   -- wK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM7   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:21:47 GMTg" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <00A3695E.CC43E1CF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <b096a4ee.0408190543.722e672@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:eY >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A36935.DBFDA36A@SendSpamHere.ORG>...fq >> In article <b096a4ee.0408181828.7a95deaa@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:l\ >> >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A368AD.895B28AD@SendSpamHere.ORG>...t >> >> In article <b096a4ee.0408180856.29328185@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:} >> >> >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<bOAm7GU1UAHY@eisner.encompasserve.org>...e` >> >> >> In article <4120D4FD.1060503@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >[...]J >> >> >Actually, I'd like to see an option to add the time to the prompt.  >> >> >' >> >> >JMHO  >> >>  >> >> " >> >> With continuous time update? >> >I >> >No. I want to be able to come back to a SmarTerm session and at least J >> >have a clue as to when things happened. I want the time to be the timeJ >> >that the prompt appeared on the screen. Someone mailed me a utility to# >> >try but I haven't tried it yet.w >> >K >> >> FYI, with XPDNT, you can include the last 32 characters in the prompt K >> >> string.  It can also be used to update the DECterm title bar with the K >> >> current default (up to about 60 characters of it) or have is write inc >> >> the 25th "status" line.u >> >H >> >I don't have anything to run DECwindows on and I don't have any real >> >need for DECwindows. >> t< >> Does your terminal emulator support the 25th status line? > - >Yes. But it's not necessarily the 25th line!t  * True, it is not necessarily the 25th line.    L >> >> It also maintains a list of prior defaults which can be navigated with8 >> >> a utility that is launched via a hot key sequence. >> >G >> >Cool. But I already have my TO.COM which does the same and more. OnhI >> >VMS I live in a character-cell world, and for my job, that's probablysJ >> >best. The only thing I think I would like a VMS GUI for is to navigateH >> >directory trees. Selecting a file would make it the equivalence nameE >> >of the logical name FILE so that I could then run a succession of  >> >commands on said FILE. >> t  >> Who said this was DECwindows? >eG >Well, you *are* VAXMAN and you mentioned DECterms. The only place I'vebE >seen DECterms is on DECwindows (albeit about 13 years ago!). Put allxG >that together and, well, I thought you, as VAXMAN, surely wouldn't use  >any other GUI!i  F You are obviously absorbed into the Weendoze world.  There is a deviceG knows as the terminal which was the interface long before the advent ofu the DECwindows.>     >VAXMAN: default = DEC >- >   >So unless you say otherwise...!   I say!   -- a< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.n -- e, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! e -- pK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2004 18:53:15 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0408191753.20cf9fc4@posting.google.com>o  X VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A3695E.CC43E1CF@SendSpamHere.ORG>...o > In article <b096a4ee.0408190543.722e672@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:r[ > >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A36935.DBFDA36A@SendSpamHere.ORG>... s > >> In article <b096a4ee.0408181828.7a95deaa@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:d^ > >> >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A368AD.895B28AD@SendSpamHere.ORG>...v > >> >> In article <b096a4ee.0408180856.29328185@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > >> >> >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<bOAm7GU1UAHY@eisner.encompasserve.org>...rb > >> >> >> In article <4120D4FD.1060503@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  [...]L > >> >> >Actually, I'd like to see an option to add the time to the prompt. 	 > >> >> >l
 > >> >> >JMHOc > >> >>  > >> >> $ > >> >> With continuous time update? > >> >K > >> >No. I want to be able to come back to a SmarTerm session and at leastFL > >> >have a clue as to when things happened. I want the time to be the timeL > >> >that the prompt appeared on the screen. Someone mailed me a utility to% > >> >try but I haven't tried it yet.s > >> >M > >> >> FYI, with XPDNT, you can include the last 32 characters in the promptlM > >> >> string.  It can also be used to update the DECterm title bar with theeM > >> >> current default (up to about 60 characters of it) or have is write in  > >> >> the 25th "status" line.  > >> >J > >> >I don't have anything to run DECwindows on and I don't have any real > >> >need for DECwindows. > >> S> > >> Does your terminal emulator support the 25th status line? > >n/ > >Yes. But it's not necessarily the 25th line!y > , > True, it is not necessarily the 25th line. > N > >> >> It also maintains a list of prior defaults which can be navigated with: > >> >> a utility that is launched via a hot key sequence. > >> >I > >> >Cool. But I already have my TO.COM which does the same and more. OnhK > >> >VMS I live in a character-cell world, and for my job, that's probablynL > >> >best. The only thing I think I would like a VMS GUI for is to navigateJ > >> >directory trees. Selecting a file would make it the equivalence nameG > >> >of the logical name FILE so that I could then run a succession ofa > >> >commands on said FILE. > >> f" > >> Who said this was DECwindows? > >eI > >Well, you *are* VAXMAN and you mentioned DECterms. The only place I'verG > >seen DECterms is on DECwindows (albeit about 13 years ago!). Put alliI > >that together and, well, I thought you, as VAXMAN, surely wouldn't uset > >any other GUI!  > H > You are obviously absorbed into the Weendoze world.  There is a deviceI > knows as the terminal which was the interface long before the advent of  > the DECwindows.e  E What's your point? You were talking about DECterms and suddenly we'renC back to VT420's? Yes, I am quite familiar with VT terminals. I usedwE actual vt100's and similar graphics terminals for much of my graduateyF research (1985 - 1991). I only used DECwindows for maybe the last yearE of it and I also used VWS windows (or whatever it was called). I usedsB the Visual 603 vt220 clone as a postdoc for two years. Then I usedE mostly that and VT420's/VT320's at my next job. At the job after that B I used VT420, later a PC with LAN Workplace for terminal emulationF using telnet. At my current job I rarely use VT terminals. I currentlyC open multiple SmarTerm sessions in multiple SmarTerm windows. I canaC switch among sessions with Ctrl-Tab (or Alt-W then select a sessioncC from a list, all of which can be done without the stupid mouse) andeF among windows with Alt-Tab or Windows-Tab. (I have 35 MicroVAX systems on line to tend to.)  F But I don't like the SmarTerm FTP. In fact I think it stinks. In fact,, for FTP I open a DOS window and use its FTP!  F Yes, I too hate MS Windows, but that's what they give me at work and IC do the best I can with it. But when I'm working in the VAX sessionsoC it's not too bad. Sometimes stupid annoying things happen, but theyoD happen far more often with the other Windows apps than with SmarTerm7 terminals (if you don't use SmarTerm's FTP, of course).0  B One thing I do like about Windows is the Sticky Keys feature, even5 though it is buggy (which of course annoys me a lot).r   Again, what is your point?   > >VAXMAN: default = DEC > >- > >-" > >So unless you say otherwise...! >  > I say!     O-kay!   ------------------------------  , Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:30:09 +0200 (CEST)% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>u Subject: Scary Kerry8 Message-ID: <98f31238dd7942eb3861b2e435c7bf1f@dizum.com>   Swimming From Cambodia By Thomas Lipscomb  	 8/16/2004.  .H  NEW YORK -- John Kerry is desperately trying to slide safely away from < the collapse of his "Christmas in Cambodia" fairy tale. Two G embarrassing "failures of memory" now permanently scar Senator Kerry's  D campaign to gain trust and demonstrate strength as he tries to move  from war hero to war president.Z  E In March, reliable witnesses came forward who placed John Kerry at a hE November 1971 Kansas City meeting where the Vietnam Veterans Against eH the War secretly voted on a proposal to kill six pro-war senators. This F appeared especially odd because Kerry had told two historians, Gerald D Nicosia and Douglas Brinkley, that he was not there and that he had F resigned from the organization before the meeting was held. He denied F eyewitnesses' accounts as well, even when six witnesses had appeared, ; several of whom were working for his presidential campaign.s  C As the story developed, and was widely ignored by the major media, dF several things emerged that reflected favorably on Kerry's conduct at C the meeting. He had argued strongly against the assassinations and bE prevailed in the final vote. But Kerry still denied the accounts. He GD stuck to the resignation story as well, even though there was clear ? evidence in the New York Times and other papers that Kerry had eA continued as a spokesman for the VVAW, making media and speaking SA appearances for a year and a half after his supposed resignation.   E When FBI files emerged establishing Kerry's presence in Kansas City, fA the campaign conceded that Kerry somehow must have forgotten his 'H involvement in the plot to assassinate U.S. senators while still on the G executive committee of the VVAW. What might have been an unforgettable sD experience for a man who was now a Senator himself turned out to be 3 just one of those little memory lapses we all have.m  E And now the new book by Kerry's fellow Swiftboat veterans, Unfit for  H Command, has inspired another "failure of memory." Kerry has maintained F for years that he was forced to go on a secret mission to plant a CIA G agent in Cambodia during Christmas 1968 under President Richard Nixon. s  D He mentioned it in the Boston Herald in October 1979, saying he had C been in Cambodia "on more than one occasion." He referred to it at  F length on the floor of the U.S. Senate in 1986 and said, "I have that G memory which is seared-seared into me." And in a touching sidelight to oF a Washington Post profile as recent as June 2003, Kerry revealed that H his briefcase has a secret compartment that held a "frayed" souvenir he G actually showed reporter Laura Blumenfeld. "My good luck hat, given to oA me by a CIA guy as we went in for a special mission in Cambodia."   H It did seem odd that Douglas Brinkley's best-seller Tour of Duty, which F came out a few months after the Post profile, placed Kerry in Sa Dec, F inside Vietnam about 50 miles from the Cambodian border. And now with G the publication of Unfit for Command, so do three of Kerry's Swiftboat   crewmen at the time. o  F As the Cambodian fantasy began to look ridiculous, the "explanations" G got positively surreal. Kerry apologist Jeh Johnson was sent to appear  > on Fox to explain. It seems that Kerry has had another memory F failure, "a mistaken recollection," and Johnson spoke of a retraction H of the Cambodia story. "I believe he has corrected the record to say it A was some place near Cambodia he is not certain whether it was in -H Cambodia but he is certain there was some point subsequent to that that  he was in Cambodia." Got that?  F John Hurley, head of the Veterans for Kerry campaign operation, had a D totally different explanation on Tony Snow's radio program. Perhaps C Kerry was not in Cambodia that Christmas after all, just close by.  C Perhaps he was confused about the date and unsure exactly where he  > was. "I don't know how anyone can say if they were in or near H Cambodia." And Christmas is so easy to mistake for any other day of the F year. Perhaps he had not been "under fire" there by South Vietnamese, A Viet Cong, or the Khmer Rouge. It was so long ago. How is one to nA remember everything? We shouldn't be "shocked, shocked" in spite oH Kerry's Senate-floor assertion that his memory was "seared-seared." And F how about that "lucky hat" in the secret compartment in the briefcase?    H IT IS NOW CLEAR THAT Kerry spent many years trying to build his record. H His political ambitions were obvious even as a Yale student. One former G classmate relates a story about how a group of his fellow students had iE decided while they would support him as far as senator, but they had tH doubts about his making a good president. Like the young Jimmy Gatz "he D always had some resolves." And like the Jay Gatsby young Jimmy grew E into, Kerry's life is all about his ambitions and the green light at rA the end of the White House dock that has been drawing him to his u destiny for 40 years.   C Somewhere there are those hidden journals whose contents have been a? selectively shared with Douglas Brinkley. And as Brinkley puts tA it: "Kerry saves everything." To the amazement of supporters and  E opponents alike John Kerry elected to make his four-month service in NH Swiftboats 35 years ago the centerpiece of his acceptance speech at the F Democratic National Convention. One can understand why. He thought he > had that period of his life boxed and ready for presentation.   ? Selective memory is everyone's secret enemy. Kerry hadn't been oB challenged in his selective recall since he left Vietnam, and his A stories kept getting better and better. No wonder Kerry told the oA Washington Post interviewer, "I wish they had a delete button on e LexisNexis."  C But what is now clear is that Kerry has gone a step farther. Kerry  H lies. He not only lies to the Senate, the press and historians, he lies G to his own press people, and he lies to himself. And he has been lying  H for years. And whenever one of Kerry's lies is under attack, he attacks  every one else -- as liars.   F And there is a pattern to his responses as well. When the lie becomes D undeniable, the sources are attacked. In the case of the VVAW plot, A John Hurley, head of Veterans for Kerry and a former VVAW member -@ himself, pressured eyewitnesses, like totally disabled vet John G Musgrave, to change their story. In the case of the Swiftboat Veterans sF for Truth, there has been a direct attack by lawyers for the campaign E trying to silence their advertising as containing "outrageous lies." oF And yet no specific lie is ever charged. Nor does Kerry ever take the C chance of actually bringing charges against his accusers for libel l> which would open the issue to a courtroom trial of the truth.   A When the lie becomes unsustainable, it is attributed to a memory iH failure. Kerry never appears. He never tries to make an explanation. He H takes no responsibility. He even hides from the press as he has for the  past several days.  G With rueful admiration, former Senator and Navy Seal Bob Kerrey called pD the last Democratic president, Bill Clinton, "an exceptionally good F liar." Unfortunately Senator John Kerry is an exceptionally bad liar. F How many lies he has told and how serious they are remains a question G that is now under examination. Perhaps no one really cares. These days  C historians, journalists and the public alike appear to value sheer  + celebrity more than any standard of truth. ,  E Today's journalists have so little experience with the military they dD haven't a clue how to evaluate the charges brought by the Swiftboat G Veterans for Truth about Kerry's quest for medals. They can't tell the mH difference between a bronze star and a Boy Scout merit badge, and can't @ be bothered to learn. What does the press care about cowardice, E deceitful conduct, and lying about a mere war record? At least Kerry  H has one and there is no arguing with that. But it will be very hard for G Kerry to swim out of the Cambodian fiasco without getting all wet. For sD here Kerry was lying directly to the press itself and they know it.     B NOW DOUGLAS BRINKLEY HAS taken on the thankless task of trying to @ explain the florid Cambodian Christmas fairytale Kerry has been @ flogging for 30 years to the press, in speeches, and in his own E campaign publications and Internet site. In a speech on the floor of eH the Senate Kerry called it one of the defining moments of his life. Now E it is time to redefine it to save Kerry's political life, before the  H embarrassed silence of the media gives way to a real desire to find out G what else Kerry has lied about. And it's not going to be easy. Look at sC the challenge Brinkley has set for himself in his statement to the   London Telegraph last week:l  E "Kerry went into Cambodian waters three or four times in January and sD February 1969 on clandestine missions. He had a run dropping off US ( Navy Seals, Green Berets and CIA guys."   G That is really raising the ante. All Kerry had said until now was that  F he had been in Cambodia on "more than one occasion." It won't be easy F to find "three or four" occasions in that time period. Remember Kerry G crewmember Steve Gardner was with Kerry for almost all of January, and e@ Gardner has already said he never went into "Cambodian waters."   B These missions took place under the direction of Kerry's superior H officers who had to detach Swiftboats from other duties to handle these F insertions. And there were indeed missions like this. Swiftvet leader E Admiral Roy Hoffmann is perfectly well aware of them. How likely are hD any of Kerry's commanders to support his latest insertion assertion?  D Kerry was stuck down on an isolated base at An Thoi on Dao Phu Quoc D Island off the coast of Cambodia during February 1969. He certainly H wasn't going on these missions on his own without his superior officers G being aware of them. Who else was going to pick Kerry out of the other iF Swiftboat commanders for the assignment? And "three or four times" is 1 pretty conspicuous in a month with only 28 days. a  H Kerry has stated, "I took my patrol boat into Cambodia." He recalled it F was his Swiftboat, which most likely would have been PCF94, with full E naval markings. And that means he had his crew on board. He couldn't CG operate the Swiftboat on his own. Which of his crew will back Kerry up BF with memories of "three or four" trips into Cambodia the way they did F on stage at the Democratic Convention? Or is there an ancient CIA man D out there eager to try on his hat in a photo op with Senator Kerry?   E Perhaps there is a pumpkin in a patch somewhere hiding microfilms of tE secret Kerry papers explaining all this written on his old Underwood hD typewriter. But after so many "memory failures" based on selections F from Kerry's journals, they are unlikely to be taken at face value at F this point. Whatever Brinkley comes up with, the payoff on this story G is likely to be at least as fascinating as Nixon's secretary Rose Mary pD Woods' explanation of how she accidentally erased the 18 and a half 2 minutes of a crucial Watergate tape. I can't wait.  G ======================================================================= E Thomas Lipscomb broke the news story on Kerry's involvement with the  E senatorial assassination plot. He served as chairman of the New York aA Vietnam Veterans' Leadership Program, which worked to assist the a% employment of minority area veterans.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:49:15 +0800l, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>+ Subject: Re: Surprise, surprise ! New EV7'sn0 Message-ID: <87k6vwkz0k.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:o  D > You might want to order some Peltier elements first:-) For the EV7D > to be competitive with the Power 5 it would probably have to clock > at 2.5Ghz today.  D I wonder how fast you could get an EV7 and RIMMs with LN2. Years agoC some of the Hudson Fab engineers tweeked a 18MHz J-11 to 45MHz witho no errors...   -- k< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:08:18 +0100e< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?24 Message-ID: <4123c550$0$200$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  ; "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message  + news:mILUc.19$2s.15@twister.nyroc.rr.com...g >0E > "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messagec- > news:newscache$8zbn2i$jfl1$1@news.sil.at...sH >> Last weekend I returned from my vacation and after reading some mailsJ >> I saw 2 new ECOs for 7.3-2 (RMS and MOUNT96). I thought I give it a tryJ >> and installed it successfully on my DS10. Then I installed it on my PWSH >> and get Bugchecks during boot (Invalid Exception while above ASTDEL -K >> with process SWAPPER - seems very early in the boot, before STARTUP.COM)s >d  I Iv installed them on a DPW and a bunch of other boxes, with no issues to   date.i   Alex e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:48:33 GMTn# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)pC Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?n2 Message-ID: <R8QUc.8313$2B3.7064@news.cpqcorp.net>  s In article <4123c550$0$200$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:f< :"Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message , :news:mILUc.19$2s.15@twister.nyroc.rr.com... :>F :> "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message. :> news:newscache$8zbn2i$jfl1$1@news.sil.at...I :>> Last weekend I returned from my vacation and after reading some mailsaK :>> I saw 2 new ECOs for 7.3-2 (RMS and MOUNT96). I thought I give it a tryaK :>> and installed it successfully on my DS10. Then I installed it on my PWS,I :>> and get Bugchecks during boot (Invalid Exception while above ASTDEL -rL :>> with process SWAPPER - seems very early in the boot, before STARTUP.COM) :> : J :Iv installed them on a DPW and a bunch of other boxes, with no issues to  :date.  G   Check the disk and file fragementation levels.  If it is excessive or<G   if core files are heavily fragmented, try a BACKUP/IMAGE and restore.yF   I've seen problems after ECO installations that have tracked back to=   severe disk fragementation; I've learned to check for this.t  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqnN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com3   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:58:12 +0300 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?n, Message-ID: <4124969d$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messaged+ news:newscache$8zbn2i$jfl1$1@news.sil.at...nG > Last weekend I returned from my vacation and after reading some mailsyI > I saw 2 new ECOs for 7.3-2 (RMS and MOUNT96). I thought I give it a trymI > and installed it successfully on my DS10. Then I installed it on my PWSrG > and get Bugchecks during boot (Invalid Exception while above ASTDEL -tJ > with process SWAPPER - seems very early in the boot, before STARTUP.COM)  ' Do you have VMS732_SYS-V0400 installed?e     >u9 > Does anyone know of problems with (one of) these ECOs ?e >fI > In the meantime I'll try to remove the ECOs (btw: does anyone know if aeJ > UNDO can be done while booted from the 7.3-2 CD - which I must boot fromJ > an Infoserver and promises funny evenings this week) and upgrade another > PWS and XP1000...R >P > TIA  >W > -- E > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERD' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist. > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:12:30 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?e1 Message-ID: <newscache$bx5p2i$vzn1$1@news.sil.at>u  X In article <R8QUc.8313$2B3.7064@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:t >In article <4123c550$0$200$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:h >:"Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message news:mILUc.19$2s.15@twister.nyroc.rr.com...s >:> "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message news:newscache$8zbn2i$jfl1$1@news.sil.at...iJ >:>> Last weekend I returned from my vacation and after reading some mailsL >:>> I saw 2 new ECOs for 7.3-2 (RMS and MOUNT96). I thought I give it a tryL >:>> and installed it successfully on my DS10. Then I installed it on my PWSJ >:>> and get Bugchecks during boot (Invalid Exception while above ASTDEL -M >:>> with process SWAPPER - seems very early in the boot, before STARTUP.COM)H >:K >:Iv installed them on a DPW and a bunch of other boxes, with no issues to . >:date.e  
 Good to hear.   H >  Check the disk and file fragementation levels.  If it is excessive orH >  if core files are heavily fragmented, try a BACKUP/IMAGE and restore.G >  I've seen problems after ECO installations that have tracked back to8> >  severe disk fragementation; I've learned to check for this.  J Thanks for reminding me. The probability is low (cause I run the defragger every night) but I'll check...   Thanks folks   -- - Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERi% Network and OpenVMS system specialistw E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:08:06 +0000 (UTC)t6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?U1 Message-ID: <newscache$zp5p2i$vzn1$1@news.sil.at>p  _ In article <4124969d$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes:np >"Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message news:newscache$8zbn2i$jfl1$1@news.sil.at...H >> Last weekend I returned from my vacation and after reading some mailsJ >> I saw 2 new ECOs for 7.3-2 (RMS and MOUNT96). I thought I give it a tryJ >> and installed it successfully on my DS10. Then I installed it on my PWSH >> and get Bugchecks during boot (Invalid Exception while above ASTDEL -K >> with process SWAPPER - seems very early in the boot, before STARTUP.COM)c >e( >Do you have VMS732_SYS-V0400 installed?  3 I can't check right now, but I bet it is installed.n+ I have it installed on my DS10 (as well)...d   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER-% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:49:55 +0300n0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ? * Message-ID: <4124f71e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  5 If possible, please post the output of CLUE CRASH....y  C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messageo+ news:newscache$zp5p2i$vzn1$1@news.sil.at...I: > In article <4124969d$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg"& <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes:F > >"Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message+ news:newscache$8zbn2i$jfl1$1@news.sil.at... J > >> Last weekend I returned from my vacation and after reading some mailsL > >> I saw 2 new ECOs for 7.3-2 (RMS and MOUNT96). I thought I give it a tryL > >> and installed it successfully on my DS10. Then I installed it on my PWSJ > >> and get Bugchecks during boot (Invalid Exception while above ASTDEL -@ > >> with process SWAPPER - seems very early in the boot, before STARTUP.COM) > >e* > >Do you have VMS732_SYS-V0400 installed? > 5 > I can't check right now, but I bet it is installed.t- > I have it installed on my DS10 (as well)...  >I > -- b > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER(' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.460 ************************disk  with a direct connection to the same machine and c) to angC MSCP-served disk, what will be the bottleneck: disk speed, SCSI-bus H speed, tape-drive speed or network speed (only a possibility in the last case, obviously)?0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:28:40 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <00A36935.DBFDA36A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <b0dFF,3Pȭbc޴~,kgpw񭛏J9"dUd^H Aʊñ$V%Vc:&oĈ`cC1ҶShQUeY"0y^1Ac <ES=a5)z+NYQb(t8Kcyg/
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