1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 22 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 464       Contents:! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? D Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users4 Installing OpenVMS Alpha on PWS 600au without CD-ROM8 Re: Installing OpenVMS Alpha on PWS 600au without CD-ROM+ Re: OpenVMS pretty darn fast on itanium ... - Re: OVMS SIG, Hobbyist News from HPworld-2004  question about new update patch  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt K Re: Unix/VMS programming environment, was: Re: If OVMS is killed  by HP.... P Re: Unix/VMS programming environment, was: Re: If OVMS is killed  by HP....  by   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 14:38:47 -0400  From: "Ray" <no@spam.me>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???0 Message-ID: <10if5lf7l3m74e1@corp.supernews.com>  F > I've never understood expanding your customer base at the expense of another G > segment of YOUR OWN COMPANY.  Then again, I've read about significant 
 antagonismK > between VMS and Unix people at DEC.  Regardless, at some level management  shouldH > have realized that they were falling on their own sword and put a firm
 stop to such.   E There were too many bigots who wanted to proselytize for the one true J religion. It's true that you should eat your own lunch before a competitorK does, but their problem was that they perceived VMS as a competitor, rather ) than SUN, IBM and the others at the time.   J Besides, at DEC back then "firm" and "management" were mutually exclusive.  J > Not quite the same as the HP issue.  It's not a different OS on the same HW, # > it's the same OS on different HW.   J I agree that the analogy breaks down when pushed too far. The part I thinkK holds is what happens when you force a customer to change. Customers resent I being forced to change. History shows that the majority of them will vote J with their feet. The end result for 5 out of six customers was moving to aL different OS on different hardware. I don't believe HP will improve on these  numbers significantly this time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:28:08 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>M Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users , Message-ID: <412812C8.4020103@tsoft-inc.com>   Tom Linden wrote:    >  > < -----Original Message-----3 > < From: David Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]      <snip a bunch of stuff>     E > < The only reason itanic will get faster than Alphas is the lack of  > < newer faster > < Alphas.  > + > Which mirrors the VAX to Alpha transition   O Oh yes, definitely.  The N-VAX was quite successful, technically for sure, and  N I'd have to say financally also.  I seem to remember a MicroVAX 3100 model 96 K (the last N-VAX chip) selling for about $37K with VMS, while a much faster  Q AlphaServer 1000 (I think) sold for $18K with VMS.  DEC was milking the VAX cow,  O and unfairly I think.  Customers don't like to feel screwed.  Through-out most  F of the life of the VAX, DEC milked the customers, and drove many away.  O The Alpha was/is 64 bit, while the VAX was 32 bit, but at that time there just  Q weren't many 64 bit apps.  Don't know what type of gain there would be with a 64  O bit VAX.  Don't know how far the architechure could have been pushed.  I don't  O think that any VAX could have allowed pushing the clock rate as much as Alpha,  J as that was one of the prime design goals with Alpha.  But, while AMD has L recently been making chips with clock rates well below the Pentium 4, their H performance is right up there with the Pentium.  Clock isn't everything.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:03:42 +0200 - From: "Starlet731" <starlet731@attglobal.net> = Subject: Installing OpenVMS Alpha on PWS 600au without CD-ROM 0 Message-ID: <np6dnbh1z6pgELrcRVnytA@scarlet.biz>   Hello,  $ I have a problem with the following:  F PWS 600au has no supported CD-ROM drive for OpenVMS (i.e. not 512 byte
 sectored)!K So I can not boot the installation CD-ROM on the PWS. I have OpenVMS V7.3-1 G and an AlphaServer 1000 4/200 with a supported CD-ROM drive and OpenVMS  installed on it.E Now I have read that I can install OpenVMS on the PWS via the network K (ethernet) form the AlphaServer with a cluster configuration. By the way: I  use the hobbyist licenses.L How must I accomplish this to get OpenVMS installed on the local disk on theK PWS? Can I do that directly from the mounted OpenVMS installation CD-ROM on = the AlphaServer (via the net), or must I do this another way? G Is there a link on the net with a more detailed explanation to do this?    Thank you for your help!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:37:01 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>A Subject: Re: Installing OpenVMS Alpha on PWS 600au without CD-ROM , Message-ID: <412814DD.9060003@tsoft-inc.com>   Starlet731 wrote:    > Hello, > & > I have a problem with the following: > H > PWS 600au has no supported CD-ROM drive for OpenVMS (i.e. not 512 byte > sectored)!M > So I can not boot the installation CD-ROM on the PWS. I have OpenVMS V7.3-1 I > and an AlphaServer 1000 4/200 with a supported CD-ROM drive and OpenVMS  > installed on it.G > Now I have read that I can install OpenVMS on the PWS via the network M > (ethernet) form the AlphaServer with a cluster configuration. By the way: I  > use the hobbyist licenses.N > How must I accomplish this to get OpenVMS installed on the local disk on theM > PWS? Can I do that directly from the mounted OpenVMS installation CD-ROM on ? > the AlphaServer (via the net), or must I do this another way? I > Is there a link on the net with a more detailed explanation to do this?  >  > Thank you for your help! >  >  >   P 1) take the PWS disk, put it in the AlphaServer 1000, build VMS, move disk back  to PWS, autogen.  5 2) take CD drive from AS 1000, put in PWS, build VMS.   P 3) (best option) get another CD drive for PWS.  You can find one for well under  $20.  Maybe under $10.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 01:06:33 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>4 Subject: Re: OpenVMS pretty darn fast on itanium ...2 Message-ID: <tkSVc.8550$ld6.2829@news.cpqcorp.net>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:   >>R >>The one that someone posted a pointer to was an old first generation system with; >>McKinley CPU. This will not be supported by OpenVMS V8.2.  >  > G > Heck, why are we supposed to know this ? (Where is this documented ?) 9 > I so far only read of rx2600 is supported by OpenVMS...  >   E There are lots of speed variants of the rx2600.  I believe that from  L 1.0Ghz and above, it uses Madison chips.  Slower rx2600s use McKinley chips.  G As for "support", I'm NOT the official word on this, but like I expect  G that V8.2 will work just fine on the older rx2600s (I have two of them  H myself for compiler development and E8.2 installs and runs just fine on I them).  However, there is no extensive testing of the software the older  8 rx2600s with all the various hardware combinations, etc.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2004 18:47:41 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) 6 Subject: Re: OVMS SIG, Hobbyist News from HPworld-2004< Message-ID: <857e9e41.0408211747.50b5d81@posting.google.com>  E SIG Chair has nothing to do with the Hobby program and was around way ( before this version of the OpenVMS SIG..   Sue     e David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<41266DC2.ACD5257F@comcast.net>... H > There were some announcements at HPworld-2004 that I think folks might > find interesting:  >  > New OVMS SIG ChairH > Chairmanship of the OVMS SIG has changed. The new chair is Bill ThomasJ > of Sungard, in suburban Chicago. More info. will likely follow. If I getI > it before it appears here, I'll post it. I'll have to look and see if I B > have his e-mail address. If I do, I will not post it without hisJ > permission - write me privately when appropriate (how to demung the from! > or reply-to should be obvious).  >  > OVMS/Hobby for IA64 D > The question was asked multiple times about hobbyist licensing forI > OVMS-I64. The answers are apparently pending, based on info. given at a B > couple of sessions, including the "Experts Panel", (aka "OpenVMS? > Engineering Panel"). This is being looked at and news will be H > forthcoming. Again, if it comes my way before I see it here, I'll post > it.  > I > I do not know how the change in the OVMS chair will effect the existing J > hobbyist licensing infrastructure. I intend to offer my services to help? > administrate the systems; as yet, I have not been approached.  >  > D.J.D.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 22:41:10 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)( Subject: question about new update patch$ Message-ID: <cg8j26$oia$1@online.de>  D I've returned from holidays and see that there are 9 7.3-1 patches IF need to install.  I'm a bit puzzled about UPDATE V4.0.  It seems to beE update 3.0 but with a different graphics-driver file, saying that 3.0 H installed the wrong one.  It then says that if one has already installedF 3.0, one can either re-install GRAPHICS 3.0, or install UPDATE 4.0.  IF have not installed GRAPHICS 3.0, since I don't need the functionality,E so I can't RE-install it.  I suppose I could install it for the first G time, but why, if I don't need the functionality?  I don't see any harm H in installing UPDATE 4.0, especially since some other patches have it asD a prerequisite (and don't mention UPDATE 3.0 plus GRAPHICS 3.0 as anD alternate prerequisite), but in my situation (UPDATE 3.0 installed, F GRAPHICS 3.0 not installed), do I need to install UPDATE 4.0 at all?    Can I just install GRAPHICS 3.0?  B However, the date displayed by the FTP server for GRAPHICS 3.0 is D September of last year.  So how can re-installing that fix anything?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 19:16:50 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <00A36B1A.5B3ADAEA@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <b096a4ee.0408201824.1701176e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:Y >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A36A14.C8ACC269@SendSpamHere.ORG>... q >> In article <b096a4ee.0408191753.20cf9fc4@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: \ >> >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A3695E.CC43E1CF@SendSpamHere.ORG>...s >> >> In article <b096a4ee.0408190543.722e672@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  >[...] >[...] >> >> >VAXMAN: default = DEC >> >> >  >> >> > & >> >> >So unless you say otherwise...! >> >>  >> >> I say! >> > >> >  O-kay! >>    >> Typical confrontational NYer. >  >O-kay is confrontational? > L >> *You* said you wanted a "time" in your prompt.  If it's not on a terminal7 >> and it's not on a DECterm then where the hell is it?  >  >On a SmarTerm window.   What the hell is a SmarTerm?   --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:39:32 +0000 (UTC) ? From: Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org>   Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt9 Message-ID: <4127C0F2.4E00AED5@encompasserve-or-this.org>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > p > In article <b096a4ee.0408201824.1701176e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:   > >  > >On a SmarTerm window. >  > What the hell is a SmarTerm? >   E A terminal emulator for MS Windows that provides VT series emulation, . IIRC it does properly emulate the status line.     Graham   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:39:59 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <00A36B3F.1DF2A03F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  { In article <4127C0F2.4E00AED5@encompasserve-or-this.org>, Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> writes: " >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>  q >> In article <b096a4ee.0408201824.1701176e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  >  >> > >> >On a SmarTerm window.  >>   >> What the hell is a SmarTerm?  >>   > F >A terminal emulator for MS Windows that provides VT series emulation,/ >IIRC it does properly emulate the status line.   ( Then what the hell is Feldman's issue?    @ (I don't expect you to answer.  He himself doesn't have a clue.)   --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:15:44 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt, Message-ID: <41280FE0.3040901@tsoft-inc.com>   VAXman- wrote:  p > In article <b096a4ee.0408201824.1701176e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > Z >>VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A36A14.C8ACC269@SendSpamHere.ORG>... >>q >>>In article <b096a4ee.0408191753.20cf9fc4@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  >>> \ >>>>VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A3695E.CC43E1CF@SendSpamHere.ORG>... >>>>r >>>>>In article <b096a4ee.0408190543.722e672@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: >>>>>  >>[...]  >>[...]  >> >>>>>>VAXMAN: default = DEC  >>>>>> >>>>>>% >>>>>>So unless you say otherwise...!  >>>>>> >>>>>I say!  >>>>>  >>>> O-kay!  >>>>  >>>Typical confrontational NYer. >>>  >>O-kay is confrontational?  >> >>L >>>*You* said you wanted a "time" in your prompt.  If it's not on a terminal7 >>>and it's not on a DECterm then where the hell is it?  >>>  >>On a SmarTerm window.  >> >  > What the hell is a SmarTerm? >  >   N Among other things, it is a VT terminal emulator that runs on windoz.  Rather Q good emulator.  You may read about Reflections, but I personally prefer SmarTerm.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:28:51 -0500 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com>   Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt7 Message-ID: <U9WVc.7370$_h.6443@bignews3.bellsouth.net>    Alan E. Feldman wrote: > F > Not that I would want the default directory in my prompt string, but > for someone who does...  > > My HGSD set default utility comes with a version that will set- the DCL prompt to the current directory name.   0 HG_SRC:[HGSD.BIN-ALPHA] sd . hun.pmas.bui.kit.fi.    SYS$SYSDEVICE:[HUNTER.PMAS.BUILD.KIT.FILES]# SYS$SYSDEVICE:*BUILD.KIT.FILES] dir   > When the directory is too, the beginning of the directory name> is replaced with "*".  (My SD provides lots of shortcuts and a= history of visited directories, like most versions of SD do.)   4 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/hgsd.zip  E > Actually, I'd like to see an option to add the time to the prompt.   > A I have a program called CLOCK_PROMPT that will do that.  For some @ reason, I've never put it in my archives.  If you'd like a copy, drop me a line.      Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:13:44 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>T Subject: Re: Unix/VMS programming environment, was: Re: If OVMS is killed  by HP...., Message-ID: <41280F68.8090400@tsoft-inc.com>   Z wrote:   > David Froble wrote:  > H >>>> I cannot imagine an OS without ASTs or something similar.  Timers, 9 >>>> I/O completion, and such, how are such done on Unix?  >>>  > J >>> The traditional method is to use select(). Unlike on VMS, select() on I >>> Unix works on a wide range of device types; which is yet another Unix  >> > ) >> Uhh.... Ok, ... what does select() do?  >  > / > http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?select+2   G Good enough, I've been educated on the select() function in C on Linux.   G Maybe this is a question only a VMS person would ask.  What if I'm not  G programming in C on Unix/Linux?  Do I have any other options besides C?   Q I guess my problem with the answer is that it's a language capability, not an OS  P capability.  Guess I should ask how close the 2 are in a Unix/Linux environment.  O Still haven't seen how to have the OS provide something similar to a timer AST.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:54:08 -0700  From: Z <z@no.spam> Y Subject: Re: Unix/VMS programming environment, was: Re: If OVMS is killed  by HP....  by  0 Message-ID: <10ig9n5l343h6cc@corp.supernews.com>   David Froble wrote: I > Maybe this is a question only a VMS person would ask.  What if I'm not  I > programming in C on Unix/Linux?  Do I have any other options besides C?   ( Not using C on Unix?  Shirley, you jest!    I > I guess my problem with the answer is that it's a language capability,  E > not an OS capability.  Guess I should ask how close the 2 are in a   > Unix/Linux environment.    Very close.     G > Still haven't seen how to have the OS provide something similar to a   > timer AST.  ; If you were gonna split hairs, you shoulda said so from the  outset.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.464 ************************