1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 23 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 467       Contents:* Re: ## downloadable tutorial of OpenVMS ##! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???  Alpha firmware .iso available  Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? RE: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator???	 Re: cobol 	 RE: cobol  Re: DECserver TCPIP setup D Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: If OVMS is killed by HP.... - Microsoft patenting basic security mechanisms 1 Re: Microsoft patenting basic security mechanisms D Re: Open source version of VMS, was: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....+ Re: OpenVMS pretty darn fast on itanium ... ) OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security H Re: PCSI update of software on a different disk than it was installed on Re: questions about TZ88N-VA Re: Re, Re : set prompt 0 Trouble with writable shareable psect in library4 Re: Trouble with writable shareable psect in library1 Re: V7.3-2 upgrade DECwindows problem encountered 1 Re: V7.3-2 upgrade DECwindows problem encountered : VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK> Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK> Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK> Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK5 Re: What is/was ODS-6 ? (Referenced in recent HM2DEF) 5 Re: What is/was ODS-6 ? (Referenced in recent HM2DEF)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:40:13 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 3 Subject: Re: ## downloadable tutorial of OpenVMS ## ' Message-ID: <41299F5D.246648AE@aaa.com>    Hi !  5 Goto "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os732_index.html" / and check the "OpenVMS User's Manual" It has an 3 "Getting Started with the OpenVMS Operating System" 
 section...  	 Jan-Erik.    "M.Senthil Kumar" wrote: >  > hai all.. E >  i'm newbe to OpemVMS. I want the basic things about openVMS. Where . > can i find the donloadable tutorial for this >  > M. senthil kumar   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 02:50:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <412993CA.9DEBC69B@teksavvy.com>   David Froble wrote: N > I've never understood expanding your customer base at the expense of another > segment of YOUR OWN COMPANY.      J Simple: if your company's performance is based on production and/or marketJ share for product X, then you can expect thatc company to switch procuct YC customers over to product X in order to make product X look better.   L (Hey, I am not saying I support such strategy, only that I can see how CarlyN and company would see that way). Remember that for Carly, image is everything.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:23:35 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> & Subject: Alpha firmware .iso available8 Message-ID: <bSoWc.40216$Kt5.18722@twister.nyroc.rr.com>  H The Alpha V6.8 firmware page now includes a link for a downloadable .iso file:   7 ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/Alpha/firmware/index.html   
 Thanks HP.   -Jeff    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 00:49:37 -0700+ From: w3.boerhout@planet.nl (Wilm Boerhout) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? = Message-ID: <e97468c6.0408222349.234aa51c@posting.google.com>    > J > One additional question - can I assume from this recommended config thatG > the Customer is not using Windows based backups, but rather VMS based 
 > backups?  D Yes, most of them are. Many VAX-VMS installations (not emulated) areE in a stage that no operational changes are considered for the system. @ The backup has run fine for 10 years, so no, we don't change theF method. Just connect the DAT-drive to a Windows SCSI-port and continue  with the familiar backup scheme.   E > One typical reason quoted for doing the Charon (or any emulator) on H > Windows is for large Windows shops that want to include this system asD > part of their normal Windows based backup strategy. This of course- > assumes network connectivity to the server.   D Yes, I've seen that too. At one customer site, it proved impossible,F for example, to get local support for the Legato backup client for VMSD on VAX. So, in that case we had to connect the Windows host to their= backup network. Fortunately, that network could be physically ? separated from other and external networks. Otherwise, the real D vulnerabilities of Windows and its TPCIP stack would become a factorC in the equation. Then the equation could have a different solution,  not necessarily Charon-VAX.   F From a practical point of view, one of my customers runs a "connected"B version of a Charon-VAX / Windows system for more than a year now.E This customer is a Digital shop of old, and is used to very long MTBB D (mean time between boots). In their perception, this has not changed with their new solution.   Wilm  F Disclaimer: I'm a known fan of Charon-VAX. Although I'm not formally aA reseller, my employer (VX Company) makes money in VMS consulting, > including Charon-VAX solutions. I am not a fundamentalist. I'm
 practical.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:31:31 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com># Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? . Message-ID: <4129C783.12958.D10A75A@localhost>  A > Another post from a CHARON-VAX reseller mentions that a typical E > installation would have at least two (2) processors.  This isn't an G > everyday config.  Seems to me that that's one more example of why VMS : > on any old affordable x86 platform isn't very realistic.  @ Moving from a server-class machine (VAX) to "any old x86" isn't E recommended.  Mission critical applications deserve something better   than a used desktop clone.  F The dual processors is mostly a performance issue.  It's hard to know ? what might happen on a single processor box if someone started   Microsoft Word...     ' [And, yes, I am a CHARON-VAX reseller.] 
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:37:00 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com># Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? . Message-ID: <4129C8CC.13321.D15ADCF@localhost>  D > Don't know what the CHARON-VAX people are up to.  They might thinkI > running on top of windoz is fine.  [...] But they might get the idea of D > including the entire package, ie; not using another OS.  Note thatG > their expertize appears to be hardware emulation, not OS development. # > They might not want to go there.    F An operating system provides lots of facilities that don't have to be F created from scratch.  On your next development project, create an OS  and compilers first...  C Seriously, Windows is not the best platform, it just happens to be  0 easy to develop on.  Other choices are possible.    1 [Yes, I am a CHARON-VAX reseller...]--Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:06:32 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? * Message-ID: <2oufkgFeoic2U1@uni-berlin.de>  / On 2004-08-23 16:31, "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:    > [...]  > H > The dual processors is mostly a performance issue.  It's hard to know A > what might happen on a single processor box if someone started   > Microsoft Word...   @ I guess it's much more "annoying" if somebody happens to start a screensaver ...    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:17:55 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? ' Message-ID: <412A0AA3.7030006@MMaz.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:  ? >>My understanding is that when running CHARON-VAX on an Intel   >>box it is ; >>recommended to be the sole user.  Seems that there are a   >>bunch of OS things that ! >>aren't required in such a case.  >>     >>G >My biggest concern when I hear Cust's considering Charon-VAX (or other G >emulators) on x86 boxes for even semi-mission critical environments is @ >the monthly security/virus patches as recommended by Microsoft. >  >    >  Kerry,  B I already posted a response to statements just like this in prior H months, but the fact is, if you have only one active NIC on the Windows H host system, and that NIC does NOT have any protocols bound to it other D than the NDIS5 driver needed for CHARON-VAX, then you cannot become 8 infected by any of the Microslope related virus code...    Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:25:32 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> # Subject: RE: charon vax emulator??? R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFC57@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   [snip..]   > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [mailto:Treahy@MMaz.com]=20   > Sent: August 23, 2004 11:18 AM > To: Main, Kerry  > Cc: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % > Subject: Re: charon vax emulator???  >=20 >=20F > I already posted a response to statements just like this in prior=20@ > months, but the fact is, if you have only one active NIC on=20 > the Windows=20@ > host system, and that NIC does NOT have any protocols bound=20 > to it other=20H > than the NDIS5 driver needed for CHARON-VAX, then you cannot become=20< > infected by any of the Microslope related virus code...=20 >=20 > Barry  >=20  	 Barry,=20   H Perhaps I am missing something here (and that is certainly possible as IG am certainly not well versed in Charon-VAX particulars), but if the VAX G application requires TCPIP and you need to do network backups, how does ) one do this with no protocols on the NIC?    Thx   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:44:36 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com># Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? . Message-ID: <4129D8A4.27148.D539083@localhost>  - On 23 Aug 2004 at 17:06, Michael Unger wrote: B > I guess it's much more "annoying" if somebody happens to start a > screensaver ...   / CHARON-VAX disables any screensaver on startup.     
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:58:25 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? ' Message-ID: <412A1421.2010307@MMaz.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:  	 >[snip..]  >  >    >  >>-----Original Message-----3 >>From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [mailto:Treahy@MMaz.com]    >>Sent: August 23, 2004 11:18 AM >>To: Main, Kerry  >>Cc: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % >>Subject: Re: charon vax emulator???  >> >>D >>I already posted a response to statements just like this in prior > >>months, but the fact is, if you have only one active NIC on  >>the Windows > >>host system, and that NIC does NOT have any protocols bound  >>to it other F >>than the NDIS5 driver needed for CHARON-VAX, then you cannot become : >>infected by any of the Microslope related virus code...  >> >>     >>E The NDIS5 driver allows CHARON to bind to it, to emulate an ethernet  G adapter to VMS.  It is VMS that will startup the DECnet, LAVC, SCS and  F perhaps even TCP/IP (using CMU/IP, TCPware, Multinet, or HP's TCP/IP) @ but all of these protocols are running on VMS, not Windows, and G therefore are not subject to the virus/trojan/buffer-overflow exploits   that haunt Windows...      Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:17:32 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? ' Message-ID: <412A189C.8080003@MMaz.com>    Michael Unger wrote:  0 >On 2004-08-23 16:31, "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: >    >  >>[...]  >>H >>The dual processors is mostly a performance issue.  It's hard to know A >>what might happen on a single processor box if someone started   >>Microsoft Word...  >>     >> > A >I guess it's much more "annoying" if somebody happens to start a  >screensaver ... >  >    >   I Well, when I was evaluating the product, I first did everything possible  I to test, and break, CHARON-VAX without violating the configuration rules  C presented by SRI so that I could determine for myself the quality,  H accuracy, and stability of CHARON-VAX as an emulator.  I was so pleased E with what I found, I pushed the envelope and on further tests, I ran  H full Windows Server 2000 with all services enabled, Photoshop, Acrobat, ? Excel, Word, Netscape browser and e-mail client, Smarterm, our  D firewall/VPN monitoring, logging, and configuration tools, CD & DVD @ burners, and yes, even screen savers, and most of this was done % CONCURRENTLY with CHARON-VAX running.     G That all said, I never noticed a stability issue and performance never  D became a serious problem, even in this abusive environment.  PLEASE H NOTE: I would NEVER recommend that anyone do what I did on a production G machine, in a production environment, but what it did help prove to me  I is that SRI had done a phenomenal job on CHARON-VAX, even if it does run  G in a Windows environment and a properly configured Windows host can be  > secure, and infection free, if you know what you are doing....     Barry      --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:50:32 -0400 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca># Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? * Message-ID: <2oup35Fek8jgU1@uni-berlin.de>   Main, Kerry wrote: >...H > My biggest concern when I hear Cust's considering Charon-VAX (or otherH > emulators) on x86 boxes for even semi-mission critical environments isA > the monthly security/virus patches as recommended by Microsoft.  >...  C Others have addressed the fact that you need to turn off as much as H possible including any Windows networking and Wilm mentioned that if youE want to use a Windows based network backup then you have to make sure H that you have a separate network. But I wanted to throw in the fact thatF for companies that are really concerned about VMS depending on WindowsF there is also CHARON-VAX AXP Plus. This would let you software VAX run on top of VMS on an Alpha.  E And yes, I am a VAR for CHARON-VAX, I approached SRI about becoming a G VAR since I truly believe that CHARON-VAX is a great product for people H who need to run VAX applications on aging hardware that is becoming moreG and more expensive to maintain. Anyone who knows me knows that I am not A a salesman by any stretch of the imagination (when was a teenager H working after school at the K-Mart in the camera department I never soldG a 35 mm SRL camera because I would always tell the customers where they D could get a better deal), but I believe that CHARON-VAX sells itselfD since it is the best solution for people who want a 100% supportable	 solution.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:01:25 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>  Subject: Re: cobol* Message-ID: <2ou1g7Fe2f7pU1@uni-berlin.de>  + On 2004-08-22 14:28, "Frank Themann" wrote:    > Michael Grunditz wrote:  >>   >> Hi  >>  A >> I am looking for a cobol compiler for my vms vax. I have found B >> a kit , but unfortunaly it was a japanese one. On the same siteE >> I found decwriter and other stuff , but I think that they are also  >> unsable to me.  > I > Im not sure, but isnt the cobol compiler, besides others, included in G > the OpenVMS Hobbyist CD? The license is part of the hobbyists layered H > products license kit. If you use your VAX as a hobbyist, this would be > an approach.  C No, it isn't. For VAX, there are: BASIC, FORTRAN, C and Pascal; for - Alpha just FORTRAN and C. (Hobbyist Kit V3.0)    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:57:50 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: cobol9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMECCDLAA.tom@kednos.com>    < -----Original Message-----< < From: Michael Unger [mailto:spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com]' < Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 4:01 AM  < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  < Subject: Re: cobol <  < - < On 2004-08-22 14:28, "Frank Themann" wrote:  <  < > Michael Grunditz wrote:  < >> < >> Hi  < >>C < >> I am looking for a cobol compiler for my vms vax. I have found D < >> a kit , but unfortunaly it was a japanese one. On the same siteG < >> I found decwriter and other stuff , but I think that they are also  < >> unsable to me.  < > K < > Im not sure, but isnt the cobol compiler, besides others, included in I < > the OpenVMS Hobbyist CD? The license is part of the hobbyists layered J < > products license kit. If you use your VAX as a hobbyist, this would be < > an approach. < E < No, it isn't. For VAX, there are: BASIC, FORTRAN, C and Pascal; for / < Alpha just FORTRAN and C. (Hobbyist Kit V3.0)   I It is not on the CD, but we offer PL/I under a Hobbyist License.  Kit and  License I can be obtained from our site.  Requirement is an OpenVMS Hobbyis License  either VAX or Alpha.   < 	 < Michael  <  < --= < Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 7 < My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.  <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  <  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 00:24:24 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: DECserver TCPIP setup0 Message-ID: <87smakl8hz.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  B Tim Sneddon <first-initiallastname@bsddotinfomedia.com.au> writes:  E >> I'm unable to remove a previous IP address and internet setup from D >> a 900M DECserver. I have tried a physical reset as well as ">init? >> factory delay 0". Everything gets wiped out but the internet A >> setup. I have tried clear and purge commands as well. Any help   >> would be greatly appreciated.  E > I have only had experience with DECserver 90TL and 90M. However, it D > might be the same. If I was going to change the IP settings I'd do > the following:   >     > SET PRIVILEGED >     Password> , >     > DEFINE INTERNET MASK xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/ >     > DEFINE INTERNET ADDRESS xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx / >     > DEFINE INTERNET GATEWAY xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx   C > After this I would then reboot the DECserver (just a simple power A > cycle) and it should come up with the new address. I don't know C > about using the CLEAR or PURGE commands on IP settings. I do know D > that where there is xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx above (to signify the address) > you can enter NONE.   E > The thing to remeber is that when changing any IP settings a reboot E > is required for them to take effect. The only exception I have seen E > to this is if the DECserver has no IP settings at all (ie. has been 5 > rebooted with the factory reset button pressed in).   F Also order can matter! The address and the mask interact, and you have( to have a `valid' setting through out...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 02:36:56 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> M Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users , Message-ID: <41299082.8D461933@teksavvy.com>   Nigel Barker wrote: Q > Turn the clock back ten years. What the percentage of VAX customers then had no R > plans to move to Alpha? They weren't looking for a new home they were happy withQ > VAX or at least there was no compelling reason to migrate. The same is true for  > many PA-RISC customers today.   L Careful with that. That same 10 years also saw a massive migration AWAY fromI VMS. So many who did state that they were "perfectly happy" with VAX were L saying so because they had already begun to depl;oy any/all new applications0 on other platforms to eventually retire the VAX.  N VMS has already had its substiantial decline. DO you really want IA64 to force a second wave of decline ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:24:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: HP Away, Message-ID: <412A2859.76C97FD8@teksavvy.com>   Tom Wade wrote: M > May I respectfully suggest that this forum (comp.os.VMS) is not appropriate ? > for posting HP releases that have nothing to do with OpenVMS.   J Perhaps on the surface. However, when competitors are targetting customersB running on EOLed products such as Alpha, then it does concern VMS.  L When you are forced to make a transition to a different platform and retest,B recertify your software, or deal with vendor who may or may not beJ retargetting their software to IA64, then if the competition becomes quiteM agressive, your management may have no choice but to take the sweet offers to + convert once and for all to a new platform.   K While HP's fud about the end of SPARC being near does make one wonder about G moving to SPARC today, I am not sure that this is sufficient to prevent Q conversion today since SPARC will continue to be developped for at least 5 years.   F Furthermore, if you move to SPARC-Solaris today with a potential for aL 8086-Solaris conversion later, you know that Solaris on the 64 bit 8086 will
 be available.   I But if you move to VMS-IA64 this year, and IA64 is phased out, it isn't a M given that HP will migrate VMS to the 64 bit 8086 since it is not part of its J core business and HP doesn't depend on VMS to survive as does Sun depen on Solaris to survive.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 10:21:08 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: HP Away< Message-ID: <f30679fb.0408230921.61b9e6f@posting.google.com>  x "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote in message news:<41249b67$0$210$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>...> > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 9 > news:f30679fb.0408190342.4b3fd5ad@posting.google.com... L > > "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote in message 4 > > news:<4123ce3f$0$198$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>...@ > >> "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message< > >> news:f30679fb.0408180326.4e30f681@posting.google.com...: > >> > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message@ > >> > news:<d7791aa1.0408171532.3d180428@posting.google.com>...* > >> >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy / > >> >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> E > >> >> wrote in message news:<cftc6o$7hm$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...  > >> >> E > >> >> remember, a box is only as good as the os that runs on it ... 7 > >> >> OpenVMS complimented alpha and soon itanium ... F > >> >> neither IBM or sun has any os to compliment their hardware ... > >> >< > >> > I think Andrew knows that OpenVMS is a good product !: > >> > He is not in this news group wasting his time ! ;-)< > >> > But OVMS still expensive ! I think a good way to sell? > >> > OpenVMS systems (Itanium) is delivery it as an appliance B > >> > product - not exclusevily of course. For Telecom operators,C > >> > Financial, etc ... Put a lot of Oracle, BEA, Attunity inside : > >> > and sell the system(s) like a kit to power-and-run.A > >> > Like the NetApp OS.  May be with the Itanium Blades we can  > >> > have a good surprise !  > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> >	 > >> > FC  > >> > >> > >> Fabio,  > >>M > >> Can you phone Servix in Brazil (they sell Itanium and Alphas) on 11 3619 M > >> 3414 please? Get a quote for a rx1600, they are 1U high. I really would   > >> be N > >> interested to know how much one would be from them, I want to understand  > >> theD > >> scale of the high import charges you have previously mentioned. > >>M > >> Post back here the cost, go for an entry level config, 1 CPU and 1GB of  	 > >> RAM.  > >> > >> Thanks  > >>	 > >> Alex  > >  > >  > > Ok Alex  > > A > > Wait a few hours ! :-) By the way I know  another reseller in > > > Brazil: www.decatron.com.br ! They are in Rio de Janeiro ! > > May I quote them ? > >  > > Regards  > >  > > FC >  > Fabio, > K > Yes why not get a quote from them too, I like their name with DEC in it,  M > although unlike Servix  they are not mentioning VMS on their website (from  # > admittedly a quick look through).  >  > Cheers >  > Alex   Alex ! Are u there ?     RX1600 !  US$ 6.733,00      ) "Rubem Dickie" <rubem.dickie@servix.com>       Regards    FC   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 05:45:52 -0700! From: wilmesr@hotmail.com (Rusty) ! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived = Message-ID: <f0d7bf28.0408230445.654bd598@posting.google.com>   a "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote in message news:<uP7Wc.38912$Fg5.21712@attbi_s53>... M > There were brochures on this @ Hp World.  Gotta buy an Alpha ES or GS to be N > eligible for the <1K for a VMS capable rx2600 machine.  We're about to order< > 3 DS15s and I'll ask if 3 DS boxes = 1 ES.  What the heck. > 	 > Dave...   > Crud!  We're about to get an ES45 but it's certified used.....   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:29:43 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....0 Message-ID: <cgcrg0$dic$3@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Tom Linden wrote:     7 The Techwise TCO studies have been done to death in the 7 past, spare your favourite OpenVMS advocates blushes by + binning them its the safest place for them.    Regards  Andrew Harrison  >  > < -----Original Message-----, > < From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]) > < Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 4:27 AM  > < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , > < Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP.... > <  > <  > < Andrew Harrison wrote: > < > Bob Koehler wrote:G > < >> In article <cg2hbo$1ga$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison 2 > < >> <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> writes: > < >>A > < >>> Since everyone except you knows that UNIX can do security > > < >>> and Clustering the 998 things that you think can do on4 > < >>> VMS but cannot on UNIX better be compelling. > < >> > < >> > < >>    ROTFLOL. > < >>9 > < > Care to elaborate base on your experiences of using 3 > < > a current Solaris based system clustered ????  > < > 0 > < > Nope I guess not so who is laughing now  ? > <  > < L > < Andrew, one might also ask exactly how much experience do you personally2 > < have administering current VMS-based clusters? > < N > < Hey, it's a fair question. Otherwise we are just at the spec-sheet pissing > < contest level. > <  > ' > You may have seen the following story  > www.kednos.com/TCO2004em.pdf >  > <  > < --- * > < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> > < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C > < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  > <  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:20:19 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk6 Subject: Microsoft patenting basic security mechanisms) Message-ID: <cgd1vj$hbc$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   G Microsoft sems to have decided if it can't make it's products secure it  will patent security :-    from  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18015    and    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,775,781.WKU.&OS=PN/6,775,781&RS=PN/6,775,781        " ,  Administrative security systems and methods   Abstract  J A computer such as a network appliance executes an administrative securityL process configured to run under an administrative privilege level. Having anG administrative privilege level, the administrative security process can L initiate administrative functions in an operating system function library. AN user process executing under a non-administrative privilege level can initiateL a particular administrative function that the process would not otherwise beG able to initiate by requesting that the administrative security process H initiate the function. In response to a request to initiate a particularF function from a process with a non-administrative privilege level, theL administrative security process determines whether the requesting process isF authorized to initiate the particular administrative function based onN information accessed in a data store. If the requesting process is authorized,K the administrative security process initiates the particular administrative I function. In this manner, the administrative security process facilitates G access to specific administrative functions for a user process having a C privilege level that does not permit the user process to access the  administrative functions.    "       
 David Webb Security Team Leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:04:28 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: Microsoft patenting basic security mechanisms, Message-ID: <6qOdndAxY7wCvrfcRVn-qQ@igs.net>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: F > Microsoft sems to have decided if it can't make it's products secure > it > will patent security :-  >  > from > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18015  >  > and  >  > L http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1L &u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,775,781.WKU.&OS=PN/6,775,781&RS=P N/6,775,781  >  >  >  > " . >  Administrative security systems and methods > 
 > Abstract > C > A computer such as a network appliance executes an administrative F > security process configured to run under an administrative privilegeE > level. Having an administrative privilege level, the administrative > > security process can initiate administrative functions in anE > operating system function library. A user process executing under a > > non-administrative privilege level can initiate a particularF > administrative function that the process would not otherwise be ableD > to initiate by requesting that the administrative security process? > initiate the function. In response to a request to initiate an> > particular function from a process with a non-administrativeA > privilege level, the administrative security process determines > > whether the requesting process is authorized to initiate theG > particular administrative function based on information accessed in a?: > data store. If the requesting process is authorized, the: > administrative security process initiates the particularF > administrative function. In this manner, the administrative securityG > process facilitates access to specific administrative functions for a E > user process having a privilege level that does not permit the useri1 > process to access the administrative functions.i >  > "     J I guess Microsoft expects that the USPTO will grant them a patent on priorL art, whether done manually for thousands of years or in computer systems for the past 40+ years.a   Deja vu all over again.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2004 12:50:01 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)M Subject: Re: Open source version of VMS, was: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....b3 Message-ID: <1iiZXWf6ZbCA@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  \ In article <4120E0DB.5FD1F6FF@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I > So an argument could be made with the "use it or lose it". Since HP hasAM > clearly shown that VSM is not part of its core business and definitely doesvI > not leverage VMS's potential (one could even argue that they try NOT toaN > leverage VMS' potential), then in court, it might be easier to argue that HPN > isn't protecting its intellectual property for VMS, especially when you lookP > at the historical "giveaways" that the owner of VMS has made (donating code to. > Microsoft in exchange for nothing concrete).  L I'm not suggesting that someone improperly take HP intellectual property [1]J and use it in a open source version of VMS; I would strongly oppose anyone doing that./  F My concern is more along the lines of HP using the threat of a lawsuitI (when there may not be any proper grounds for a lawsuit [ie: pull a SCO]) K to shutdown a open source VMS project. I think that HP are much better than G to try that, but in the current software lawsuit climate there's alwaysr that tiny doubt.   Simon.  J [1] As I understand it, and I am not a lawyer so I would really appreciateK a correction if I am wrong, an implementation of an interface (like RMS) isnL protected by copyright, but copyright cannot be used to stop someone writing8 a different implementation that uses the same interface.  M That protection would be offered by trade secret status or patents neither of 6 which I have ever heard applied to something like RMS.   -- kB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:52:25 -0400r# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>R4 Subject: Re: OpenVMS pretty darn fast on itanium ..., Message-ID: <Wqadnci0Y44Ga7TcRVn-sg@igs.net>   John Vottero wrote:m0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( > news:ZuGdnUzJzIfLw7TcRVn-pw@igs.net... >> John Vottero wrote:C >>> "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in messagee) >>> news:4128DE6B.D39268FF@comcast.net...  >>>/
 >>> [snip] >>>>>/E >>>>> With VMS license?  Ok, 8.1 is $75.  Don't know about upgrade to-
 >>>>> 8.2. >>>>E >>>> Even if the machine and the license costs were the same ($2600 +oF >>>> $2600), that might be livable if the license equates to unlimitedH >>>> users, IMO. That's still circa. $5,200, but anyone worth their saltH >>>> can probably justify that before they can justify a $15,000 license% >>>> for an o.s. on a $2,600 machine.  >>>> >>>aD >>> Before anyone gets too excited, the prices that are being tossed@ >>> around are special deals for DSPP members for remanufacturedE >>> hardware.  The list price for a new RX2600 starts at about $5,700hC >>> and climbs rapidly.  As far as I can tell, none of these pricesn  >>> includes an OpenVMS License. >> >>? >> The conundrum is that with 'commodity' hardware (or at leasteG >> commodity within the same manufacturer's lineup), HP has to convincehE >> customers that it's worth paying a premium for a better o/s on thesF >> same hardware rather than spending zero (or close to it) in capitalG >> costs for linux, more for Windows or HP-UX, and yet more for VMS andt$ >> NSK. My bet is that HP will never	 >> do it.f >> > G > I haven't seen prices for OpenVMS yet but I'm betting that they'll bekF > competitive.  Right now, HP only lists two operating systems for theG > RX2600, Windows Enterprise Server 2003 is $3,600 and Red Hat Linux isWE > $700 per year. Linux may be $0 in capital costs but, it's not free.   1 I specifically said 'capital costs' for a reason.e  G Without having exact numbers at hand right now, my recollection is thatrI Tru64 on machine X cost $Y for an *unlimited* user license whereas VMS onnI the same machine also cost about $Y for a very *limited* number of users.o  I I'm certain that we will be revisiting this discussion shortly when finaldL pricing for Tru64/HP-UX and OpenVMS 8.2 are released for identical machines.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:18:17 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>l2 Subject: OT: WORD documents and corporate security, Message-ID: <412A26D6.CD9F1E0E@teksavvy.com>  N Word is finally getting around that the bloat in WORD documents may cause many problems to corporations.l  \ http://news.com.com/Software+maker+exposes+hidden+data/2100-1012_3-5320006.html?tag=nefd.top  N For instance, analysis of some WORD documents posted on the Bliar government'sJ web site revealed that some of the deleted text contradicted the argumentsL used to justify Bliar's helping the Bush regime invasion of Iraq. Similarly,L analysis of SCO's WORD documents posted on their web site revealed that theyN had originally planned to sue Bank of America (text that was originally in the document but had been cut out).   K So one more argument to never send WORD documents via email or post them onlK web site since they contain far more then just the text you intend to send.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:46:11 -0700-+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>16 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security% Message-ID: <412A2D63.10304@MMaz.com>w   JF Mezei wrote:-  O >Word is finally getting around that the bloat in WORD documents may cause manyy >problems to corporations. >.] >http://news.com.com/Software+maker+exposes+hidden+data/2100-1012_3-5320006.html?tag=nefd.top  >'O >For instance, analysis of some WORD documents posted on the Bliar government'soK >web site revealed that some of the deleted text contradicted the argumentsiM >used to justify Bliar's helping the Bush regime invasion of Iraq. Similarly,bM >analysis of SCO's WORD documents posted on their web site revealed that they O >had originally planned to sue Bank of America (text that was originally in thee  >document but had been cut out). >mL >So one more argument to never send WORD documents via email or post them onL >web site since they contain far more then just the text you intend to send. >  e >sI Does anyone know if this also occurs in other MS related Office products uG (ie Excel, Power Point) and if the same 'security flaw' also exists in  0 the Open Source versions of the Office products?     Barry-   -- o  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        k   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:30:15 +0200 . From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security+ Message-ID: <412A29A7.9FE6AFFA@T-Online.de>s   JF Mezei wrote:f > P > Word is finally getting around that the bloat in WORD documents may cause many > problems to corporations.   F This is why you should (almost) never send .doc files in an email. The8 other reason is that there are some macroviruses around.   [...]-  P > For instance, analysis of some WORD documents posted on the Bliar government'sL > web site revealed that some of the deleted text contradicted the argumentsN > used to justify Bliar's helping the Bush regime invasion of Iraq. Similarly,N > analysis of SCO's WORD documents posted on their web site revealed that theyP > had originally planned to sue Bank of America (text that was originally in the! > document but had been cut out).r  G Yes, very true. I cant believe that, in our days, somebody working forb? the government is still that kind of an idiot... I work for theyC government myself and when I have to send some doc to a company viaeG email, I use the pdf format, or, plain text. There is no need to mail a 	 doc file.u   [...]t  M > So one more argument to never send WORD documents via email or post them onoM > web site since they contain far more then just the text you intend to send.C  G It also contains some information about the author and the word programeC he / she used. And I dont talk about the version of word! Even the  serial number is contained.m  	 Greetingsr   Frank    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:52:54 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) Q Subject: Re: PCSI update of software on a different disk than it was installed onm2 Message-ID: <GMlWc.8568$i11.2790@news.cpqcorp.net>  > The following information was provided for posting here by oneC of the Pollycenter Software Installation (PCSI) utility developers.a I hope it is of some use.r  P = start ========================================================================  C When a product is installed, the PCSI utility stores the associatedmF logical volume name of the destination device in the product database,F not the actual device name.  Since the destination volume is no longerF mounted, PCSI cannot use this logical name to find the device on whichF your product was orignally installed.  The logical volume name is usedC so that the user can move files to another physical device with thefE same or different label.  However, PCSI must be told what happened so,( that it can update the product database.  F First, let's define "logical device name".  This is the string that is returned from:  4     $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETDVI("<dev>","logvolnam")     C This logical name is created by the MOUNT utilty when the volume istF mounted and a logical name of the form DISK$<label> is associated withD the device.  You cannot simply define the logical name -- it must beF created and associated by the MOUNT command for PCSI to be able to use it.   B     [NOTE:  You cannot correctly create this logical name because >     it is related to other data structures created by MOUNT.  A     Note also that if you rename a volume, you must dismount and lP     remount it to get the logical name and other data structures correct.  /CWH]  C You should be able to use the following command to see this logicald volume name in your database:a  ;     $ PRODUCT SHOW OBJECT * /PRODUCT=<your-prod-name> /FULL      ; Each file object should have the dev:[dir]file.type listed.Q   Here's how you can recover.6  
 ----------
 Scenario 1
 ----------  @ If you copied your product to the same directory tree on the newC device (ie, dev:[web.][prod-dir...]), then all you need to do is to ; tell PCSI about the new volume using the following command::       $ PRODUCT REGISTER VOLUMEs      You will be prompted to enter:  E     _Logical volume name in database:  ! what prod show object showed-#     _Device name of mounted volume:t     E PCSI will find the new associated logical device name to put into the>H database.  Reenter the PRODUCT SHOW OBJECT command to verify the change.! If all is well, then you're done.s  
 ----------
 Scenario 2
 ----------  C If you copied your product to a different directory tree on the newdB device then things are more complicated.  For example if the filesF were copied from DKA2:[WEB.] to $9$DKA103:[000000] or $9$DKA103:[a.b.]C then changing the device information is not sufficient as PCSI willoF think the files are in $9$DAK103:[web.][...].  The workaround requires
 two steps.  B 1.  Use PRODUCT REGISTER VOLUME as before (or mount a spare volumeF     with the old label), then use PRODUCT REMOVE to remove the productD     info from the database.  PCSI won't care that it cannot find the>     files and directories, but it will remove objects from the
     database.i     F 2.  Either re-install the product to the same place where it currently*     resides, or use the following command:     1     $ PRODUCT REGISTER PRODUCT <your-prod-name> - (         /SOURCE=<where-kit-is-located> -         /DESTINATION=dev:[dir]         D     Make sure the destination dev:[dir] specifies the directory pathB     under which all product files are placed - what you would haveC     specified if you had installed the product to this device using      the /DESTINATION qualifier.4     E Then do a PRODUCT SHOW OBJECT /FULL command as before to see that allpD objects are recorded properly.  Repeat step 2 for other products you* may have manually moved to the new divice.  P = end ==========================================================================   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 AUG 2004 15:04:21 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)% Subject: Re: questions about TZ88N-VAe6 Message-ID: <23AUG04.15042190@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  H ->MRI machines work well, if you can borrow one for 30 sec. BTW, you canJ ->do a LOT of tapes in that time. Great for doing ~10,000 3480 cartridges.  D Anyone thinking of trying this - don't. There are 4 visible metallicD (ferrous) screws on the backside of these cartridges. If not securedG those tapes will head straight for the magnet, probably smash, and (theoE screws at least) stay there until the liquid helium charge is removedeD (not cheap). Whomever you borrowed it from would be livid. If it's aB medical facility you'd never get those tapes near an MRI if normal safety procedures are in place.R   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisone7 --                karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:46:16 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <00A36C6D.BEF2A07C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <b096a4ee.0408222039.6e9fcf4b@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:Y >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A36B3F.1DF2A03F@SendSpamHere.ORG>...a~ >> In article <4127C0F2.4E00AED5@encompasserve-or-this.org>, Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> writes:% >> >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:t >> >> t >> >> In article <b096a4ee.0408201824.1701176e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: >t >> >> >On a SmarTerm window. >s" >> >> What the hell is a SmarTerm? > I >> >A terminal emulator for MS Windows that provides VT series emulation, 2 >> >IIRC it does properly emulate the status line. > + >> Then what the hell is Feldman's issue?  e > C >> (I don't expect you to answer.  He himself doesn't have a clue.)t >k >u" >All right. Stop with the insults. >o5 >Let's review, shall we? From a recent relevant post:n >n	 >I wrote:h > G >> >Actually, I'd like to see an option to add the time to the prompt. o >M >You:  >  >> With continuous time update?R >V >I:  >rF >No. I want to be able to come back to a SmarTerm session and at leastG >have a clue as to when things happened. I want the time to be the time G >that the prompt appeared on the screen. Someone mailed me a utility too  >try but I haven't tried it yet. >e >You:  > H >> FYI, with XPDNT, you can include the last 32 characters in the promptH >> string.  It can also be used to update the DECterm title bar with theH >> current default (up to about 60 characters of it) or have is write in >> the 25th "status" line. >  >I:  >eE >I don't have anything to run DECwindows on and I don't have any reale >need for DECwindows.e  . You can only read 1 thing at I time, I forgot.      D >Then you went on and on about DECwindows and terminals and I simplyE >responded. I guess I should have skipped my comment about not having G >or needing DECwindows (which I just put in as an "off-the-cuff" answerFG >to your remarks about putting the default in the DECterm window) which D >apparently is the only part of that post that you read! And I guessF >you thought that I also wanted the default in the prompt and I don't!@ >Hence the confusion. Actually, I did say that I do not want the >default in my prompt. >t >  >One more time:> >sG >I want DCL to offer an option to add the time to the DCL prompt -- thetE >time that the prompt appeared. This is how it works in MS-DOS and onhB >Stratus's VOS. That's what I am asking for. I am not asking for aA >clock. I have a clock already. I want to be able to go back to a,A >session, either still in the SmarTerm history buffer or copy andaE >pasted to a file on the VAX, and have the times in the prompts. ThispG >gives clues as to what happened when. It is not a comprehensive set ofsG >time stamps, but it is better than no time stamps. It might be nice to D >also have at least the day as an added option as sometimes the timeA >alone is not enough (for example if you come back to a session a - >couple of days later and run more commands).e >nF >And I DO NOT want the default in my prompt. I have WH*ERE as a symbolG >for show default so all I need to do to see my default is a very quick G >WH<Return>. I do, however, like having the nodename in the prompt, andwB >have already added appropriate commands to my login.com for that. >r >I hope this clears things up. a >tF >I will write to Hunter Goatley and ask for a copy of his program (see >his post in this thread).  ) ...but you still need a terminal...  doh!e   plonk! --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.t -- h, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   -- nK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMR   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:21:30 -0300d* From: Ben Armstrong <ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca>9 Subject: Trouble with writable shareable psect in libraryo= Message-ID: <pan.2004.08.23.15.21.29.716467@bgpc.dymaxion.ca>-  H I'm attempting to compile and link a simple C language test routine intoG a shareable library using SWIG 1.3.21 so that it can be run from a PerliF program using Perl 5.004.  The perl test script fails with this error:   $ perl example.pleM Can't load 'DSA0:[DYMAX.WIP.SWIG-1_3_21.EXAMPLES.PERL5.SIMPLE2]EXAMPLE.EXE;1'iI  for module example: %SYSTEM-F-NOTINSTALL, writable shareable images mustw   be installed  at example.pm line 7r  4 The Makefile rule to link the library is as follows:  ! OPTFILES   = ,perlshr_bld.opt/opt  TARGET     = example LD         = link /map  / $(TARGET).exe: $(TARGET).obj $(TARGET)_wrap.objPP         $(LD) /gst/shareable=$(TARGET).exe $(TARGET).obj, $(TARGET)_wrap.obj $(O PTFILES)   And perlshr_bld.opt contains:e  1 PSECT_ATTR=$GLOBAL_RO_VARS,PIC,NOEXE,RD,NOWRT,SHRn1 PSECT_ATTR=$GLOBAL_RW_VARS,PIC,NOEXE,RD,WRT,NOSHR # SYMBOL_VECTOR=(Perl_AMG_names=DATA)n SYMBOL_VECTOR=(Perl_Argv=DATA) ... etc. ...7 PERL_ROOT:[LIB.VMS_AXP.5_00462.CORE]libperl.olb/Libraryp  G This is a somewhat modified copy of the .opt file of the same name thataE distributes with Perl 5.004.  The principal change is some lines thathD caused compile warnings were removed (e.g. the DynaLoader and Socket symbol vectors).  @ Here are what I think are the relevant lines from the .MAP file:  N FOO                             00000000 00000007 00000008 (          8.) OCTA1 4 NOPIC,OVR,REL,GBL,  SHR,NOEXE,  WRT,NOVEC,  MODwN $LINK$                          00010000 0002618F 00016190 (      90512.) OCTA1 4 NOPIC,CON,REL,LCL,NOSHR,NOEXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MODsN $LINK$                          00010000 0002618F 00016190 (      90512.) OCTA1 4 NOPIC,CON,REL,LCL,NOSHR,NOEXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MOD N $SYMVECT                        00026190 0002B12F 00004FA0 (      20384.) OCTA1 4 NOPIC,CON,REL,GBL,NOSHR,NOEXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MODcN $DATA$                          00030000 0003045F 00000460 (       1120.) OCTA1 4 NOPIC,CON,REL,LCL,NOSHR,NOEXE,  WRT,NOVEC,  MODtN $GLOBAL_RO_VARS                 00040000 0004066F 00000670 (       1648.) OCTA1 4   PIC,CON,REL,GBL,  SHR,NOEXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MOD N $LITERAL$                       00040670 0004F1BD 0000EB4E (      60238.) OCTA1 4   PIC,CON,REL,LCL,  SHR,NOEXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MODKN $LITERAL$                       00040670 0004F1BD 0000EB4E (      60238.) OCTA1 4   PIC,CON,REL,LCL,  SHR,NOEXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MODeN $READONLY$                      0004F1C0 0004F27F 000000C0 (        192.) OCTA1 4   PIC,CON,REL,LCL,  SHR,NOEXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MOD-N $CODE$                          00050000 00104E0B 000B4E0C (     740876.) OCTA1 4   PIC,CON,REL,LCL,  SHR,  EXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MODcN $CODE$                          00050000 00104E0B 000B4E0C (     740876.) OCTA1 4   PIC,CON,REL,LCL,  SHR,  EXE,NOWRT,NOVEC,  MODcN $GLOBAL_RW_VARS                 00110000 00117FE7 00007FE8 (      32744.) 2 **1 5   PIC,CON,REL,GBL,NOSHR,NOEXE,  WRT,NOVEC,  MODmN $BSS$                           00120000 00120D5F 00000D60 (       3424.) OCTA1 4 NOPIC,CON,REL,LCL,NOSHR,NOEXE,  WRT,NOVEC,NOMODsN COLORS                          00120D60 00120D6F 00000010 (         16.) OCTA1 4 NOPIC,OVR,REL,GBL,NOSHR,NOEXE,  WRT,NOVEC,NOMOD N PERL_YYLVAL                     00120D70 00120D77 00000008 (          8.) OCTA1 4 NOPIC,OVR,REL,GBL,NOSHR,NOEXE,  WRT,NOVEC,NOMODt  " Finally, here is example.c itself:   /* File : example.c */   /* A global variable */  double Foo = 3.0;   > /* Compute the greatest common divisor of positive integers */ int gcd(int x, int y) {4   int g;   g = y;   while (x > 0) {m
     g = x;     x = y % x;
     y = g;   }s   return g;2 }.  ( And the Makefile rules for compiling it:   INTERFACE  = example.i SWIG       = swig( CC         = cco1 INC        = perl_root:[lib.vms_axp.5_00462.core]    $(TARGET).obj: O          $(CC) /share $(TARGET).c   $(TARGET)_wrap.c:  $(INTERFACE)g"         $(SWIG) -perl $(INTERFACE)  1 $(TARGET)_wrap.obj: $(TARGET)_wrap.c $(INTERFACE)h?         $(CC) /Include_Directory=$(INC) /share $(TARGET)_wrap.cd  A My problem is that I am uncertain about which PSECT attributes in J particular make the resulting module "writable shareable" (is it just SHR,E WRT? i.e. the "FOO" PSECT?), how to influence those attributes duringwC compile & link, and if at all I can change those attributes without J breaking the shareable module.  You see, I want to avoid having to install the shareable image.  G Any pointers to documents to read that will help unconfuse me, specificC: advice for fixing this problem, etc. would be appreciated.   Thanks,i Ben    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:40:27 +0000 (UTC),, From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)= Subject: Re: Trouble with writable shareable psect in libraryI. Message-ID: <cgd6lr$5v7$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Ben Armstrong <ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca> writes in article <pan.2004.08.23.15.21.29.716467@bgpc.dymaxion.ca> dated Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:21:30 -0300: I >I'm attempting to compile and link a simple C language test routine into8H >a shareable library using SWIG 1.3.21 so that it can be run from a PerlG >program using Perl 5.004.  The perl test script fails with this error:  >i >$ perl example.plN >Can't load 'DSA0:[DYMAX.WIP.SWIG-1_3_21.EXAMPLES.PERL5.SIMPLE2]EXAMPLE.EXE;1'J > for module example: %SYSTEM-F-NOTINSTALL, writable shareable images must >  be installed4 > at example.pm line 7 >o5 >The Makefile rule to link the library is as follows:l [snip]  = That is a run-time error message, nothing to do with linking.s  L It's saying that the EXAMPLE.EXE file needs to be "installed", which is doneL with the INSTALL utility.  This requires privileges, so you need to have theK cooperation of the system admin.  And it needs to be re-done every time the28 system is rebooted if you want to keep using the module.   My guess at the proper command:_  M $ INSTALL ADD DSA0:[DYMAX.WIP.SWIG-1_3_21.EXAMPLES.PERL5.SIMPLE2]EXAMPLE.EXE-- 	/WRITEABLE.  K The exact command is probably documented somewhere in your example package.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:47:47 +0200i' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>h: Subject: Re: V7.3-2 upgrade DECwindows problem encountered* Message-ID: <cgc3un$neh$1@news.tudelft.nl>   John Santos wrote:A > Long story short:  DECwindows didn't work immediately after thee5 > upgrade, but seems to have eventually fixed itself!l >  [snip]/ > So I turned off the V74 debugger by executinga? > "$ @sys$startup:debug$startup_v74 VMS", commenting it out of h9 > systartup_vms.com, and tried again.  Still didn't work.> > D I had more or less the same problem. I got an updated version of theG V74 debugger from HP, which solved the problem. (this version does not t/ use the logical TRACE, which gives the problem)1                    Jouk    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 01:09:26 -0700. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby): Subject: Re: V7.3-2 upgrade DECwindows problem encountered< Message-ID: <224291b.0408230009.1ff9a6a7@posting.google.com>  ^ John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message news:<1040822170326.19425A-100000@Ives.egh.com>...A > Long story short:  DECwindows didn't work immediately after the!5 > upgrade, but seems to have eventually fixed itself!l ....L > I vaguely recall seeing something in previous versions of the InstallationE > and Update Manual telling you to disable any non-standard debuggers H > (by removing them from systartup vms.com) before starting the upgrade,A > but didn't see any mention of that in the V7.3-2 version of thed	 > manual.l  E I also remember having this problem once. The problem is that a debug6C kit defined TRACE as a logical that referenced the TRACE_V74 image. F I'm not sure exactly what sequence of actions with the debugger causes
 the issue.   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:13:49 +0100f1 From: Tom Garcia <tgarcia@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org> C Subject: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK8C Message-ID: <pan.2004.08.23.10.13.48.553240@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org>l   Hello,  A I'm a relatively new VMS hobbyist (my experience being via remoteeG shells) looking for a VAXstation on which to fully learn and understandxI the VMS platform on its original hardware. My interest as a student is inE. studying the design and engineering of the OS.  J With that in mind I'm hunting for a couple of things. What I've found out:  D 1) Comprehensive VMS internals references. Most suitable seem to be:  I OpenVMS Alpha Internals and Data Structures : Memory Management, GoldbergwA OpenVMS Alpha Internals: Scheduling and Process Control, Goldberg E (both superseding Vax/Vms Internals and Data Structures Version 5.2 )mJ Open VMS: Operating System Concepts, Miller (more introductory overview of material in first two?)   F 2) A VAXstation *grin*. My initial thought was simh on Linux on my AMDI 2600XP, but I know I'd like to try out solid hardware (as well as save oniI power!). I realise most systems are bootable with the latest VMS, but I'dr> like a system that I can productively *use* as I learn, so wasI hunting for the 4000/60 and /9X models. The systems seem much less common E in UK than US, with a passing quote given to me of 200 (~$360) for a F /60 - is this reasonable? eBay hints otherwise, but units seem scarce.  J More general info, in case anyone else is embarking on the same adventure:  F Most important issue is ensuring sufficient memory since non-standard.I Graphics board supplied may vary. Booting should be possible via any SCSInE CD-ROM with 512 byte block support. Also required at minimum: consolekE cable (DEC MMJ to standard serial 9-pin), and probably AUI-to-10baseTcB transceiver to connect to modern Ethernet. If want to use locally,J keyboard has MMJ connector and mouse/video not the regular PC type, but itJ seems success with regular monitor is possible (I have a GDM-1394 with RGB BNC connectors, *hopes*):i0  http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html9 (for 3100 series, page also gives info on good CD drives):  
 User manuals:D@  http://vt100.net/manx/search?cp=1;q=vaxstation+4000;num=20;on=0   Speed comparison:s2  http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/vax-perf.html   Thanks,c   --  B Tom Garcia | tgarcia-ng@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org | Remove spam trap.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:48:23 +0200 . From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>G Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK@+ Message-ID: <4129D987.C8C77B71@T-Online.de>c   Tom Garcia wrote:  >  > Hello, >  [...] H > 2) A VAXstation *grin*. My initial thought was simh on Linux on my AMDK > 2600XP, but I know I'd like to try out solid hardware (as well as save onTK > power!). I realise most systems are bootable with the latest VMS, but I'd,@ > like a system that I can productively *use* as I learn, so wasK > hunting for the 4000/60 and /9X models. The systems seem much less common G > in UK than US, with a passing quote given to me of 200 (~$360) for atH > /60 - is this reasonable? eBay hints otherwise, but units seem scarce.  H Dont they have a used systems market at your local (UK) DECUS chaptersD website? In Germany, there are sometimes some machines available forD little, or, sometimes, even no money at all. The URL of the UK decus
 should be:   http://www.hp-interex.orge   [...]   H Why dont you think again about running simh? Ive got some VAX machinesH (bigger ones, bot not 11/7xx) and I still run simh under Win2K. Even theF networking works fine. For real "VAX feeling", you need a terminal, of2 course, but a VS4000/xx doesnt have that, either.   Greetings from Germany,h   Frank    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:53:22 +0100s1 From: Tom Garcia <tgarcia@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org>tG Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UKmC Message-ID: <pan.2004.08.23.12.53.21.705090@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org>r  8 On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:48:23 +0200, Frank Themann wrote:  J > Dont they have a used systems market at your local (UK) DECUS chapters
 > website?  . I'm not a member atm so maybe I'm missing someG links, but http://www.hpug.org.uk/ doesn't seem to have any forums, and-F those at http://www.hp-interex.org/site/cms/faqview.asp?chapter=40 areJ dead :/. http://www.decus.org.uk/ doesn't connect. Clicking on the UK flagH from http://h18000.www1.hp.com/usergroup/ provides an advert on asbestos lawsuits (expired domain...).r  J > Why dont you think again about running simh? Ive got some VAX machinesJ > (bigger ones, bot not 11/7xx) and I still run simh under Win2K. Even theH > networking works fine. For real "VAX feeling", you need a terminal, of4 > course, but a VS4000/xx doesnt have that, either.  D I shall certainly try simh with VMS; I'll need to investigate how to0 prevent 100% cpu usage even while idle, I think.  @ From what I gather, the VAX CPU doesn't have a low power mode so> VAX/VMS idle is a busy loop; I guess, then, that you'd have to< detect entry to this loop and suspend, unless a low priorityA process could execute an otherwise illegal opcode that simh wouldo
 intercept.   Thanks for your reply,   --  B Tom Garcia | tgarcia-ng@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org | Remove spam trap.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:57:39 +0200d. From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>G Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UKe+ Message-ID: <412A05E3.F6EEF279@T-Online.de>e   Tom Garcia wrote:o   [...]   F > I shall certainly try simh with VMS; I'll need to investigate how to2 > prevent 100% cpu usage even while idle, I think.  E Sorry, I forgot about that. Running simh under Win2K, I never had the D inpression that it uses up all the cpu time, even with a single cpu.G Today, I run it under Win2K on a double-cpu-Intelistation (2x 733 MHz),t& so I wont have these problems anyway.  C Under Linux, Ive heard about this problem before, but, as far as I E remember, the reason is not the cpu idle mode, but the fact that simhiD simulates the hardware itself. There was some information about that somewhere - I cant remember.s  h Franki   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:07:48 +0200O From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>> Subject: Re: What is/was ODS-6 ? (Referenced in recent HM2DEF)2 Message-ID: <cgc1jo$rfk$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Glenn Everhart wrote:- > Dirk Munk wrote: > G >> Unless it is a typo, it could be the new filesystem VMS engineering o- >> has been working on for many years now....  >> >> Simon Clubley wrote:e >>; >>> What is/was ODS-6 ? (Have a look in a recent HM2DEF...)e >>>a
 >>> Simon. >>>n > Remember Spiralog?  / I never used it, but wasn't that before ODS-5 ?a   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 06:26:06 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)> Subject: Re: What is/was ODS-6 ? (Referenced in recent HM2DEF)3 Message-ID: <Ww7+Zbq6V5hN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <cgc1jo$rfk$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:r > Glenn Everhart wrote:  >> Dirk Munk wrote:e >> yH >>> Unless it is a typo, it could be the new filesystem VMS engineering . >>> has been working on for many years now.... >>>o >>> Simon Clubley wrote: >>>g< >>>> What is/was ODS-6 ? (Have a look in a recent HM2DEF...) >>>> >>>> Simon.  >>>> >> Remember Spiralog?  > 1 > I never used it, but wasn't that before ODS-5 ?n  H That's what I thought as well. Also these definitions are on V7.3-1, but are not in V7.2-1.  ! From hm2def.h on a V7.3-1 system:]  N #define HM2$C_LEVEL1 257                /* 401 octal = structure level 1    */N #define HM2$C_LEVEL2 512                /* 1000 octal = structure level 2   */N #define HM2$C_LEVEL5 1280               /* 2400 octal = structure level 5   */N #define HM2$C_LEVEL6 1536               /* 3000 octal = structure level 6   */  ) (V7.2-1 only goes upto LEVEL5, ie: ODS-5)   L Also, some fields have been added to the home block definition, one of which is:s  d     unsigned short int hm2$w_viboffset; /* Offset in bytes to VIB (ODS6 Volume Information Block) */   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       P SCO: Proudly pushing Microsoft down to #2 on the list of most disliked companies   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.467 ************************