1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 24 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 468       Contents:! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???  Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator???D RE: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersD Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 usersD Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users3 Re: Getting FORKed Was: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  OT: Rebooting of a train- Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security H Re: PCSI update of software on a different disk than it was installed onH Re: PCSI update of software on a different disk than it was installed on Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt / TCPIP: FTP of directory names starting with dot # Re: Total Eclipse...was Re: HP Away # Re: Total Eclipse...was Re: HP Away 4 Re: Trouble with writable shareable psect in library4 Re: Trouble with writable shareable psect in library4 Re: Trouble with writable shareable psect in libraryK Re: Unix/VMS programming environment, was: Re: If OVMS is killed  by HP.... > Re: Unknown OPCOM message: "clm privilege violation" More info! UPDATE: OpenVMS Press Opportunity  Re: VAX Instruction Timings  Re: VAX Instruction Timings > Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK5 Re: What is/was ODS-6 ? (Referenced in recent HM2DEF) ) Re: WORD documents and corporate security   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:06:57 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???@ Message-ID: <lfrWc.184645$wH4.12257497@twister.southeast.rr.com>   Interex cowers behind HP omerta 8 http://www.theregister.com/2004/08/23/hp_number_silence/   -- Kenneth R. Farmer <><  http://www.OpenVMS.org      A "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote in message : news:05uVc.179497$wH4.11927279@twister.southeast.rr.com...@ > >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/hpworld_users_react/ > >>H > >>"a whopping 50 percent of [HP-UX] customers have no plans to move to > ItanicL > >>at all.  This leaves half of HP's high-end [HP-UX] customer base looking > for E > >>a new home either on Linux systems, which HP does sell, or - more  likely -+ > >>on IBM and Sun Microsystems' Unix kit."  > J > I've seen reference to these numbers in an earlier article on E-CommerceG > Times this week.  I went to the Interex press room and they said they J > released no such numbers.  I repeated the process daily and got the same	 > answer.  > H > I just emailed and got a reply from The Register writer.  This was hisK > response, "They put them up during a presentation. Not sure exactly which L > survey. Have been trying to get an official copy for days now."  I emailed  > him back asking which session. > L > I've got the card for the press room lady in my computer case.  I'll emailK > her again and see if they haven't found anything.  At the moment there is  NO( > proof these numbers exist or are true. >  > I'll keep digging. >  > Ken  >  > --   > Kenneth R. Farmer <><  > http://www.OpenVMS.org >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:16:27 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <79WdnR3vTK4T37fcRVn-hA@igs.net>   Kenneth Farmer wrote: ! > Interex cowers behind HP omerta : > http://www.theregister.com/2004/08/23/hp_number_silence/ >  > C > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote in message < > news:05uVc.179497$wH4.11927279@twister.southeast.rr.com...A >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/hpworld_users_react/  >>>>F >>>> "a whopping 50 percent of [HP-UX] customers have no plans to moveA >>>> to Itanic at all.  This leaves half of HP's high-end [HP-UX] B >>>> customer base looking for a new home either on Linux systems,: >>>> which HP does sell, or - more likely - on IBM and Sun >>>> Microsystems' Unix kit."  >>@ >> I've seen reference to these numbers in an earlier article onD >> E-Commerce Times this week.  I went to the Interex press room andC >> they said they released no such numbers.  I repeated the process ! >> daily and got the same answer.  >>E >> I just emailed and got a reply from The Register writer.  This was B >> his response, "They put them up during a presentation. Not sureE >> exactly which survey. Have been trying to get an official copy for 7 >> days now."  I emailed him back asking which session.  >>G >> I've got the card for the press room lady in my computer case.  I'll B >> email her again and see if they haven't found anything.  At the< >> moment there is NO proof these numbers exist or are true. >> >> I'll keep digging.  >> >> Ken     " I First up, there is the Itanium server information discussed last week. It K turns out that 50 percent of the HP-UX customers out there have no plans to J migrate their software over to Intel's 64-bit processor at all. This couldL be a huge problem for a company that has bet its high-end server aspirationsC on making a successful shift from the PA-RISC and Alpha processors.   L HP-UX customers are not alone in their worries over Itanium with the OpenVMSL customers expressing similar fears. Only 9 percent of OpenVMS customers planK to move onto Itanium this year, with 24 percent making the move in the next L two years and 15 percent moving in the next five years. Again, 52 percent ofG the OpenVMS crowd has no intention of moving onto Itanium, according to  Interex.  K Things don't improve much for Tru64 operating system customers either. Only J 47 percent of Tru64 users are satisfied with HP's roadmap for the OS. ThisL shouldn't surprise anyone, as HP has decided to kill off Tru64 and move someC of its tools into HP-UX at a very slow pace. Overall, however, most D customers appear pleased with where HP is heading on other operatingC systems. The rest of the numbers break out with 68 percent of users K approving the Windows roadmap, 65 percent approving Linux plans, 65 percent H approving OpenVMS plans, 59 percent approving HP-UX plans and 58 percent approving NonStop plans.  F HP, however, falters badly on the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) front,L according to Interex. The old line MPE, OpenVMS and NonStop systems enjoy 70I percent, 65 percent and 63 percent favorable ratings from HP's users. But J nearly half of HP's other customers are not pleased with its software TCO.K Only 49 percent of OpenView customers, 53 percent of HP-UX customers and 56 @ percent of Tru64 customers are satisfied. Both Linux and Windows- satisfaction hovers right around 60 percent."       G I guess HP prefers to look at the world through rose-colored glasses as J opposed to seeing the world for what it is. I guess they really don't careJ whether they lose 50% of their customer base while carly(tm) the Unwise is at the helm.           Andrew,   K At least Sun know how to pay more attention to its customers. I'll wear one $ of the badges...now where's my iPod?  < http://www.theregister.com/2004/08/17/hpworld_notes_fiorina/   "... Sun eclipsed by securityK Speaking of iPods, Sun Microsystems attempted a guerilla marketing campaign E at HP World with Apple's device. Sun representatives were handing out I buttons touting Solaris on Opteron with the intention of giving one lucky G winner a day an iPod if they were seen with the badges on at HP's show.   K As we understand it, security caught on to these plans on Monday and kindly I escorted the Sun staffers from the premises. Sun apparently made a second H run today, but we've yet to see anyone wearing a badge. These are the HP faithful after all."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:41:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <412A4867.5B67A58A@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: K > First up, there is the Itanium server information discussed last week. It M > turns out that 50 percent of the HP-UX customers out there have no plans to A > migrate their software over to Intel's 64-bit processor at all.   L Had a short chat with an ex VMS guy whose shop dumped VMS in favour of HP-UXL some years ago. They are still buying Pa-Risc machines and when asked if why1 not buy IA64 machines, the guy started to laugh.    L I think that the keyword here is that customers will delay migration to IA64K as long as possible, (possible due to lack of confidence in that platform), M and that delay may be a self professing prophecy since too few IA64 sales may N force Intel to accerelate the retirement of IA64 in favour of the 64 bit 8086.  N > customers expressing similar fears. Only 9 percent of OpenVMS customers planM > to move onto Itanium this year, with 24 percent making the move in the next N > two years and 15 percent moving in the next five years. Again, 52 percent ofI > the OpenVMS crowd has no intention of moving onto Itanium, according to 
 > Interex.  M Well, 9% is a high figure for this year, considering that VMS isn't available F comemrcially yet on that IA64 thing. So If HP manages to get 9% of VMSM customers onto IA64 this year, either the installed base has really shrunk to N a point where a couple of migrations generate huge percentages, of HP is going- to be giving lots of incentives to customers.     L > opposed to seeing the world for what it is. I guess they really don't careL > whether they lose 50% of their customer base while carly(tm) the Unwise is > at the helm.    I Not necessarily. If HP psychologists, after having studied VMS customer's J profiles, have concluded that that the 52% is likely to stick with VAX andI Alpha and will deal with inability to grow their power by putting all new N applications on other platforms, then HP could expect to retain those "legacy"N customers until Carly retires or is ousted, whichever comes first. (but eitherL is considered long term by companies such as HP whcih view 3 months ahead as
 long term)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:52:31 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???@ Message-ID: <3WrWc.184651$wH4.12260715@twister.southeast.rr.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:412A4867.5B67A58A@teksavvy.com... > John Smith wrote: J > > First up, there is the Itanium server information discussed last week. ItL > > turns out that 50 percent of the HP-UX customers out there have no plans toC > > migrate their software over to Intel's 64-bit processor at all.  > H > Had a short chat with an ex VMS guy whose shop dumped VMS in favour of HP-UX J > some years ago. They are still buying Pa-Risc machines and when asked if why 2 > not buy IA64 machines, the guy started to laugh.  L Dumped VMS for HP-UX.  Now that deserves a laugh.  Wonder if he had anything to do with that decision.   K Itanium2 isn't that bad.  The rx2600 I have performs very well, it's a nice F machine.  I wonder how many people that spend so much time criticizing Itanium actually have one.  I Some of you guys make it sound like a worthless piece of junk.  Could you ! possibly be exagerating a little?   5 Answer me this, which do you love more, Alpha or VMS?    [snip mucho text]    Ken    --   Kenneth R. Farmer <><  http://www.OpenVMS.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:53:46 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???@ Message-ID: <eXrWc.184652$wH4.12260997@twister.southeast.rr.com>  9 Cut The Register some slack.  They have to play the daily   visitors/click-through game.  :)   Ken    --   Kenneth R. Farmer <><  http://www.OpenVMS.org        . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:79WdnR3vTK4T37fcRVn-hA@igs.net... > Kenneth Farmer wrote: # > > Interex cowers behind HP omerta < > > http://www.theregister.com/2004/08/23/hp_number_silence/ > >  > > E > > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote in message > > > news:05uVc.179497$wH4.11927279@twister.southeast.rr.com...C > >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/hpworld_users_react/  > >>>>H > >>>> "a whopping 50 percent of [HP-UX] customers have no plans to moveC > >>>> to Itanic at all.  This leaves half of HP's high-end [HP-UX] D > >>>> customer base looking for a new home either on Linux systems,< > >>>> which HP does sell, or - more likely - on IBM and Sun > >>>> Microsystems' Unix kit."  > >>B > >> I've seen reference to these numbers in an earlier article onF > >> E-Commerce Times this week.  I went to the Interex press room andE > >> they said they released no such numbers.  I repeated the process # > >> daily and got the same answer.  > >>G > >> I just emailed and got a reply from The Register writer.  This was D > >> his response, "They put them up during a presentation. Not sureG > >> exactly which survey. Have been trying to get an official copy for 9 > >> days now."  I emailed him back asking which session.  > >>I > >> I've got the card for the press room lady in my computer case.  I'll D > >> email her again and see if they haven't found anything.  At the> > >> moment there is NO proof these numbers exist or are true. > >> > >> I'll keep digging.  > >> > >> Ken >  >  > " K > First up, there is the Itanium server information discussed last week. It J > turns out that 50 percent of the HP-UX customers out there have no plans toL > migrate their software over to Intel's 64-bit processor at all. This couldB > be a huge problem for a company that has bet its high-end server aspirations E > on making a successful shift from the PA-RISC and Alpha processors.  > F > HP-UX customers are not alone in their worries over Itanium with the OpenVMS I > customers expressing similar fears. Only 9 percent of OpenVMS customers  planH > to move onto Itanium this year, with 24 percent making the move in the nextK > two years and 15 percent moving in the next five years. Again, 52 percent  ofI > the OpenVMS crowd has no intention of moving onto Itanium, according to 
 > Interex. > H > Things don't improve much for Tru64 operating system customers either. OnlyL > 47 percent of Tru64 users are satisfied with HP's roadmap for the OS. ThisI > shouldn't surprise anyone, as HP has decided to kill off Tru64 and move  someE > of its tools into HP-UX at a very slow pace. Overall, however, most F > customers appear pleased with where HP is heading on other operatingE > systems. The rest of the numbers break out with 68 percent of users E > approving the Windows roadmap, 65 percent approving Linux plans, 65  percent J > approving OpenVMS plans, 59 percent approving HP-UX plans and 58 percent > approving NonStop plans. > H > HP, however, falters badly on the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) front,K > according to Interex. The old line MPE, OpenVMS and NonStop systems enjoy  70K > percent, 65 percent and 63 percent favorable ratings from HP's users. But L > nearly half of HP's other customers are not pleased with its software TCO.J > Only 49 percent of OpenView customers, 53 percent of HP-UX customers and 56B > percent of Tru64 customers are satisfied. Both Linux and Windows/ > satisfaction hovers right around 60 percent."  >  >  > I > I guess HP prefers to look at the world through rose-colored glasses as L > opposed to seeing the world for what it is. I guess they really don't careL > whether they lose 50% of their customer base while carly(tm) the Unwise is > at the helm. >  >  >  >  > 	 > Andrew,  > I > At least Sun know how to pay more attention to its customers. I'll wear  one & > of the badges...now where's my iPod? > > > http://www.theregister.com/2004/08/17/hpworld_notes_fiorina/ >  > "... > Sun eclipsed by securityD > Speaking of iPods, Sun Microsystems attempted a guerilla marketing campaignG > at HP World with Apple's device. Sun representatives were handing out K > buttons touting Solaris on Opteron with the intention of giving one lucky I > winner a day an iPod if they were seen with the badges on at HP's show.  > F > As we understand it, security caught on to these plans on Monday and kindlyK > escorted the Sun staffers from the premises. Sun apparently made a second J > run today, but we've yet to see anyone wearing a badge. These are the HP > faithful after all." >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:44:26 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???< Message-ID: <KGsWc.5896$Y94.2397@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>  B "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote in message : news:lfrWc.184645$wH4.12257497@twister.southeast.rr.com...! > Interex cowers behind HP omerta : > http://www.theregister.com/2004/08/23/hp_number_silence/ >   J "Only 9 percent of OpenVMS customers plan to move onto Itanium this year, L with 24 percent making the move in the next two years and 15 percent moving F in the next five years. Again, 52 percent of the OpenVMS crowd has no 8 intention of moving onto Itanium, according to Interex."  L It's all in the spin, change that last line to: OpenVMS on Itanium is still H in beta and already 48% of OpenVMS users are making plans to move to it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:29:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <412A8BCE.5320BB11@teksavvy.com>   Kenneth Farmer wrote: N > Dumped VMS for HP-UX.  Now that deserves a laugh.  Wonder if he had anything > to do with that decision.   D Corporate decisions based on what applications are available on whatN platforms, and then from the narrow list of platforms, choose the best vendor.  M VMS didn't have the application they wanted, so they moved from VMS to HP-UX. K And yes, that guy did state that HP-UX was really inferior to VMS, but when J Palmer is telling everyone to get off VMS, that guy and company heeded theK call and are still alive and well. The VMS marketplace isn't doing so well.   K > Some of you guys make it sound like a worthless piece of junk.  Could you # > possibly be exagerating a little?   N Nobody is stating that IA64 is slower than a Microvax II. Problem is that IA64L isn't competing against yesterday's chips, it is competing against currentlyN available chips. And promises of better IA64s to come in a few years don't cutM it. It doesn't have a definite win today against today's competitors, and the N question becomes whether all the money Intel is sinking into Itanic will allowP it to clearly stand out in front of the pack, or simply keep up behind the pack.  M VMS is at a disadvantage in terms of performance due to better security, file L system etc. But combined with the then industry leading Alpha, it made for a good solution.  K But put VMS on some unimpressive chip, and it becomes harder to sell VMS to N proespective customers unless they specifically require features that only VMSW has. (and that feature set is dwindling as Unix gains more and more of those features).         7 > Answer me this, which do you love more, Alpha or VMS?   I Both. It was the combination of a fast chip with a good OS that made it a  great solution.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 13:18:25 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <y3jqvBOe6$FD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <41263E3C.2010106@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   O > If the developers were good enough to develope the emulator, it shouldn't be  P > real hard for them to develop an environment solely for running the emulator. P > Note that I have no idea of what parts of the underlying OS the emulator does U > use.  Regardless, with such, wouldn't this then be a form of VMS on IA-32 hardware?   F    Running as a task on VxWorks or similar RTOS, instead of a task on 7    Windows, would certainly provide a solid foundation.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 13:34:06 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <Y8Oz9$sJ$cqv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <4128f79b$0$1890$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> writes:   I > Please note that a Windows system is only vulnerable when connected to   > an (external) network.      Oh, yeah, right.     (    Oh, you meant the electrical network?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:48:45 +0200 + From: Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 5 Message-ID: <412a3c10$0$1903$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>    Bob Koehler wrote:  * >    Oh, you meant the electrical network?  I Yes, we have Ethernet over our power distribution system over here in. I  I have not personally connected my Charon-VAX system's Ethernet controller  H to the mains supply however. If you supply the funding, I'll be glad to  test it.  I Seriously, a stand-alone Windows machine is not subject to virus attacks  >   or TCPIP's descriptorless programming. That's enough for me.   --  
 Wilm Boerhout  Zwolle, The Netherlands    wilmOLD@PAINTboerhout.nl2    (remove OLD PAINT from this address before use)   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 13:09:25 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: RE: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users 3 Message-ID: <hx9mJ1Z7vCTT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFBD5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: > I > When the first Alpha's were released (Jensen AXP150 etc), they were not ' > faster than many of the bigger VAX's.   E    Of course not, but it was fun to have DEC's cheapest Alpha running C    in the same order of magnitude as the VAX 9000, at a lower price     than my VLC.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 13:21:40 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users 3 Message-ID: <x7qYaP2MUDi5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   R In article <DJSdnW1Xnrn9ALXcRVn-og@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > H > This is EXACTLY the reason why Sun and other unix vendors were able toM > extablish a beachhead. Digital OWNED the mid-range market (aside from IBM's L > S38 and AS400) and could have made unix a stillborn commercial exercise by > lowering prices on VMS.   G    UNIX workstations were known, but not particularly impressive, prior D    to RISC CPUs.  For most of the folks I knew who made the painfullB    transition from VMS to UNIX, it was the raw CPU power they were)    after.  Alpha was too late to undo it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:43:01 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> M Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users , Message-ID: <Jt-dnSoRsKMlp7fcRVn-ow@igs.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:; > In article <DJSdnW1Xnrn9ALXcRVn-og@igs.net>, "John Smith"  > <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>F >> This is EXACTLY the reason why Sun and other unix vendors were ableF >> to extablish a beachhead. Digital OWNED the mid-range market (asideA >> from IBM's S38 and AS400) and could have made unix a stillborn 1 >> commercial exercise by lowering prices on VMS.  > C >    UNIX workstations were known, but not particularly impressive, C >    prior to RISC CPUs.  For most of the folks I knew who made the C >    painfull transition from VMS to UNIX, it was the raw CPU power 5 >    they were after.  Alpha was too late to undo it.     + Most of the folks I knew were interested in  1) lower costs followed by  2) more horsepower  K They knew the pain they'd be getting themselves into doing a code migration D to unix from VMS and WANTED to stay with VMS. Again I'm taling about> commercial apps where stability was more important than speed.    J Had an interesting conversation with a government person over the weekend.I She seemed to think that in her area of responsibility they could get VMS F back in the door due to superior reliability and ultimately lower TCO.  L One interesting approach she mentioned was that  retirement/medical benefitsJ in government go up with years of service/seniority and having fewer adminH bodies helps to cut some of those costs, especially when those costs are) increasing at 2-3x the rate of inflation.    HP, are you listening?  Nah!   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 13:06:24 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: Getting FORKed Was: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <i3zJ9ix6rXEB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <41261A16.9020907@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > Q > For a more robust solution, you'd want the listener to pass the request off to  K > *something else* to service the request and continue handling subsequent  K > connection requests.  The best way I've found to do this is to grant the  P > connection, on a shared socket, and have another process/subprocess also open P > the socket to actually service the request.  This involves some inter-process 6 > communications, possibly process creation, and such.  E    That's not necessary on a real OS where you have ASTs to deal with E    the asynchonous nature of the problem.  It's also a perfectly good     place to use threads.  R > As for threads, from what I've read, it seems that you need to be working in C, S > which I avoid.  Last I heard, I don't think the BASIC language as implemented on   > VMS is thread safe.   G    Lots of high level languages are not designed to be thread safe, but G    can be used in a thread safe manner if you study and understand what E    DEC called the User's Guide.  Fortran was never designed for this, C    yet I've dealt with several hundred thousands of line of Fortran     code used this way.       > Always willing to be educated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:26:42 -0400 ( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived * Message-ID: <412a37c3@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  7 "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote in message ' news:FOTVc.34149$Fg5.10723@attbi_s53... K > I enjoyed HP World.  The sessions I attended (mostly VMS) were well done.   % Hi Dave, nice to meet you in Chicago. K Mostly ditto. I did have bad luck selecting some sessions. Like one labeled K 'Windows 2003 under the hood' where the go proceeded to explain for half an I hour on windows update mechanism. Jeez, the audience was expecting a talk H about an car engine and get get blah blah over a road to nowhere. Not on target.   H In the expert panel session there was a question on a corrupted MAIL.MAI file. (VMS 6.2 or 6.1). K I was hoping to get in touch with the gentleman posing that question but he 
 'escaped'.A If anyone know how to reach this person, then please let me know:  hein@hp.xxx     : > HP's technology forum in New Orleans, Sept. 11-15, 2005.  L My current expectation, as a peon in the sidelines, is that this will be theI focal point of the extarnal VMS activities for 2005, and NOT HPworld 2005  San Francisco.   Hein.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 13:12:26 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <64Kggq7nuYom@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <412614D8.9050404@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > R > Ok, I'll ask some possible stupid questions.  I've never used any brand of Unix 0 > so I'm not aware of Unix programing practices. > I > I cannot imagine an OS without ASTs or something similar.  Timers, I/O  2 > completion, and such, how are such done on Unix?  D    The traditional practive on UNIX is to handle asynchronous issuesH    via a combination of select() and fork().  Don't expect deterministic    behaviour or tight timing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:27:24 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <UrKdnb35MOiSqrfcRVn-pQ@igs.net>  > Just responding to the subject line of the original poster....  G It really isn't IF HP is going to kill VMS, it's more a matter of when.   E Lack of effective marketing, timidity in the management suite, begnin K neglect or active distain, and the total absence of advertising will surely K result in a decrease in VMS sales to the point where HP can decide that not J only is VMS non-strategic (that decision has already been made - see theirL actions regarding the foregoing for proof), but also an insufficient revenue% stream to warrant further investment.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:12:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: OT: Rebooting of a train , Message-ID: <412A3388.BE816340@teksavvy.com>  L Goes to show how the spreading of IT which used to be restrictied to a smallG number of educated and smart programmers is showing its rear ugly head:    ##5 >From *Computer Weekly* 7 Jun 2001, on the back page.   2 ... a tale of cutting edge IT going off the rails.  J It reads, "I had an interesting journey home from London last night. I wasJ onboard a new 100% computer-controlled train. In the middle of the ChesterK countryside, the train ground to a halt. The automated station-announcement E system then ran through its program of station announcements in quick 0 succession until it said the final destination."  J "It then attempted to open the doors (in the middle of nowhere). The guardF ran to the driver's cab. The driver and the guard then ran through theK carriages muttering that the computer had gone berserk and was telling them H that the rear of the train was on fire. After checking, the driver, in aL state of mild panic ran back to the cab, turned off all the engines, cut offI all the power (leaving us in pitch darkness), and yes, you've guessed it, 9 waited the customary - 10 seconds and rebooted the train.  ##  K Now, to put a VMS perspective on this (making this "on topic"). My image if K VMS is that only a certain class of IT people choose VMS (or choose to stay L since few adopt it anymore). And the type of people on VMS are the types whoM do not view "trendy product" as being important, but rather "I need something J that works, I need something that is documented, and I need something thatM works as documented" to be vastly more important than "I need something which * is competible with the rest of the world".  I So one reason VMS is more reliable in daily use is that it is managed and G applications developped by a different breed of people which is totally 3 different than the microsoft and now linux weenies.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Aug 2004 18:20:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security* Message-ID: <2ouqs8FeipohU1@uni-berlin.de>  % In article <412A2D63.10304@mmaz.com>, . 	"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: > JF Mezei wrote:  > P >>Word is finally getting around that the bloat in WORD documents may cause many >>problems to corporations.  >>^ >>http://news.com.com/Software+maker+exposes+hidden+data/2100-1012_3-5320006.html?tag=nefd.top >>P >>For instance, analysis of some WORD documents posted on the Bliar government'sL >>web site revealed that some of the deleted text contradicted the argumentsN >>used to justify Bliar's helping the Bush regime invasion of Iraq. Similarly,N >>analysis of SCO's WORD documents posted on their web site revealed that theyP >>had originally planned to sue Bank of America (text that was originally in the! >>document but had been cut out).  >>M >>So one more argument to never send WORD documents via email or post them on M >>web site since they contain far more then just the text you intend to send.u >>   >>K > Does anyone know if this also occurs in other MS related Office products .I > (ie Excel, Power Point) and if the same 'security flaw' also exists in ?2 > the Open Source versions of the Office products? >   G It's not a security flaw, it's a stupidity flaw.  I suppose no one hereaG ever noticed the "undo" button.  If the previously changed data was noteF maintained in the document, how could it do an "undo"??  The answer isC to use the "Save As" button which creates a new copy that doesn not F contain any of the old cruft.  This has been documented numerous times over the past decade, at least..  I Of course, all the other Office Suite products exhibit the same behavior.   H It does  not appear that KWord does, I can't say for Open Office or Star4 Office as I don't have them available at the moment.   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:10:47 -0700 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security2 Message-ID: <Nu-dnc4-v6i6rrfcRVn-iw@mpowercom.net>  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message news:412A2D63.10304@MMaz.com... J > Does anyone know if this also occurs in other MS related Office productsH > (ie Excel, Power Point) and if the same 'security flaw' also exists in2 > the Open Source versions of the Office products? > F It's not really a security flaw, more like operator error.  Word has aG facility to track changes, very handy when editing is a team effort and0J several people have to add/delete text before it reaches the final editor,F who in turn may restore some of the deletions.  What happened is theseF organizations sent out raw work product instead of finished documents.6 Blame poorly trained staff and the lack of procedures.  G Handing someone a set of power tools doesn't mean they are qualified to.K build a house, nor does giving someone a word processor guarantee they willnL know how to use it. The "little knowledge is a dangerous thing" paradigm hasE been a problem in the computer biz since the early days of timeshare.    Jack Peacock   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:37:16 -04001- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>w6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security, Message-ID: <412A3953.57C3B5FE@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:I > It's not a security flaw, it's a stupidity flaw.  I suppose no one hereoI > ever noticed the "undo" button.  If the previously changed data was notd9 > maintained in the document, how could it do an "undo"??t  L WPS-PLUS (part of ALL-IN-1) did NOT save your copy/undo buffers in the savedL file. They were stored as a separate file. This allowed you for instance, to
 cut text from N  document 1 and then edit document 2 and paste that text in. WPS PLUS did haveN redlining capabilities (to indicate changed/deleted text), and that, of course was included in the document.u  H Also, for vast majority of GUI applications outside of Microsoft, actualM "undo" is not stored with the saved file, it is valid only during the editings	 session.    G The problem, as someone else mentioned is that WORD is designed to save M document history (aka: redlining), but it is often set by default without theO0 user specifically enabling it for that document.  F Again, it is often the defaulst set by Microsoft which cause problems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:31:20 +0200,9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>s6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security' Message-ID: <412A4608.C92A8419@aaa.com>    JF Mezei wrote:o > J > Also, for vast majority of GUI applications outside of Microsoft, actualO > "undo" is not stored with the saved file, it is valid only during the editingw
 > session.   Yes, just as in MS-Word.  I > The problem, as someone else mentioned is that WORD is designed to save4O > document history (aka: redlining), but it is often set by default without thee2 > user specifically enabling it for that document.  6 But then, you are *not* talking about the undo buffer. Have you ever used Word ??  8 With that said, it's of course *very* un-professional to7 publish a "source" file (the Word doc file) publicly...>  	 Jan-Erik.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:35:39 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Q Subject: Re: PCSI update of software on a different disk than it was installed on>6 Message-ID: <00A36C8D.C726727E@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <GMlWc.8568$i11.2790@news.cpqcorp.net>, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:? >The following information was provided for posting here by oneaD >of the Pollycenter Software Installation (PCSI) utility developers. >I hope it is of some use.  K Thanks for the follow-up!  This looks like a complete explanation of what'st needed.m   Appreciate it.   -- Alan  -- rO ===============================================================================h0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056oM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025sO ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:05:55 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>Q Subject: Re: PCSI update of software on a different disk than it was installed onn+ Message-ID: <412AA282.2A064574@comcast.net>    Charlie Hammond wrote: > @ > The following information was provided for posting here by oneE > of the Pollycenter Software Installation (PCSI) utility developers.  > I hope it is of some use.g > [snip]   Thanx, Charlie!t  ( I've saved that locally for my archives!   D.J.D.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 17:14:23 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0408231614.66e6ebed@posting.google.com>a   Mr. Shake and Baker wrote:   [...]eH > >I will write to Hunter Goatley and ask for a copy of his program (see > >his post in this thread). > + > ...but you still need a terminal...  doh!   ) Hmmm. I have a terminal. I even said so. p   > plonk!  H Well goodbye to Mr. Shake and Baker and his inane questions and remarks!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:37:53 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt+ Message-ID: <412A9BF1.B2DCA01F@comcast.net>r   Z wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:fF > > I've never used SmartTerm's FTP; however, WRQ's newest FTP clientsI > > (since about V6.2) are "drag and drop", and that makes them a *ROYAL* E > > PITA! Don't believe me? Try this: without using the command line,hL > > transfer any file so that it gets a different name on the target machineF > > - you can't, and if there's already a file by the same name at theF > > target, or if the target doesn't accept the filename syntax on the? > > source machine, ... time wasters! The V6.10 FTP client from F > > WRQ/Reflection should be updated for the newer Windows o.s.-es and3 > > re-released without the Whinebloze Exploder BS.o > 0 > Transfer then Rename, or Rename then Transfer. >  > All from within WRQ. > < > Yes, it's true that you can't rename it on the fly, as you > can with GET or PUT. > $ > So, that's your biggest complaint?   Part 2: Requires knowing:n    1. What to do  2. How to do it$  3. That it needs to be done at all.   Other annoyances:y  H o Establishing FTP partners. V6.10's FILE->Open and/or ->SaveAs was muchG less tedious, much less labor intensive, much more straight-forward andd( consistent with the WhineBloze paradigm.  F o No Up/down-load buttons - d&d only, unless you use the command line.  A o No ASCII/BIN buttons. "Drag-and-pray", or use the command line.-  D So much forced use of the command line begs the question: why bother with a GUI?@  F o Has problems interpreting/recognizing directory output from some FTP5 servers (mainly VMS-based, more than V6.10 ever did).   G It just plain sucks. V6.10 was *VASTLY* better, no matter what the Borg  and their assimilees may say.t  > > I especially like multiple select and drag and drop.  That's> > a lot simpler (and a lots less typing) than issuing multiple > GETs or even MGETs.   ? Older GUI version also supports multiple selects. No advantage.s   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:48:03 -0500a2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt+ Message-ID: <412A9E53.DA29ECAC@comcast.net>e  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > a > In article <4128D87B.1C7EC5E@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > >David Froble wrote: > >> [snip]hU > >> Interesting comment on SmarTerm's FTP.  I've used it, and normally like the dragmT > >> and drop interface.  I've had problems transfering large files where it appearsK > >> to complete transfering, but doesn't complete the transaction, and thenB > >> destination file isn't usable.  What don't you like about it? > >iE > >I've never used SmartTerm's FTP; however, WRQ's newest FTP clientsiH > >(since about V6.2) are "drag and drop", and that makes them a *ROYAL*D > >PITA! Don't believe me? Try this: without using the command line,K > >transfer any file so that it gets a different name on the target machinenE > >- you can't, and if there's already a file by the same name at the E > >target, or if the target doesn't accept the filename syntax on thes> > >source machine, ... time wasters! The V6.10 FTP client fromE > >WRQ/Reflection should be updated for the newer Windows o.s.-es andr2 > >re-released without the Whinebloze Exploder BS. > G > If you poke around you may be able to get your WRQ FTP client to openhH > a command line.  I've been able to. (I'm at home now, and the box with? > Reflection FTP is at work, so I don't know the model number.)   @ Indeed, it has a command line. However, the GUI is severely moreG restricted than it's predecessor. My (unsuccessful) argument to WRQ wassD that programs should GAIN functionality as they evolve, not lose it.   D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:17:49 -0700r From: Z <z@no.spam>.  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <10il9a9c1qpgmc7@corp.supernews.com>   gngn wrote:u  T > Because i have some unix habits. I prefer to see where i'am or where a user is. =) >  > 5 >>Takes too much space.  What's wrong with SHO DEF orp9 >> PWD == "show default"  if the user wants to know wheree >>he is?   What's wrong with:   $ set prompt="''f$dir()> "   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 21:51:20 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)   Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt3 Message-ID: <xGGwrQH2Zb$J@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  F In article <10il9a9c1qpgmc7@corp.supernews.com>, Z <z@no.spam> writes:
 > gngn wrote:e > U >> Because i have some unix habits. I prefer to see where i'am or where a user is. =)a >> t >>  6 >>>Takes too much space.  What's wrong with SHO DEF or: >>> PWD == "show default"  if the user wants to know where	 >>>he is?h >  > What's wrong with: >  > $ set prompt="''f$dir()> "     $ show default4   EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.YOUNG_R.NEWS-EXTRACTS] $ set prompt = "''f$dir()'> "y7 %DCL-E-STRTOOLNG, string argument is too long - shortenu   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:32:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>-8 Subject: TCPIP: FTP of directory names starting with dot, Message-ID: <412A8C91.DB5F145A@teksavvy.com>  N Someone on windows tried to backup a directory structure with FTP to a VAX-VMS 7.2 with TCPIP 5,.3 ECO2.o  L The transfers failed. Cause: first file it tried to transfer was a directory@ whose name began with a . (.XV_TEMP or something to that order).  N Is this something which would have worked on an ODS-5 volume on Alpha  ? Or is this also "broken" on Alpha ?   E Are there woraround or suggestions on how to handle such requests for/ transfers ?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:50:05 -0400r# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e, Subject: Re: Total Eclipse...was Re: HP Away, Message-ID: <vIKdnRHu4Z_9obfcRVn-gw@igs.net>   David Froble wrote:/ > John Smith wrote:t >  >> Fabio Cardoso wrote:g >>	 >>> Click[ >>>]B >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/17/sun_hpaway_phasethree/ >>>a >>> ) >>> HP's Unix base offered Opteron carrote >>>iC >>> "HP World Sun Microsystems has started Phase III of its HP Away,D >>> program for shifting customers off the Tru64 and HP-UX operating >>> systems and onto Solaris.t >>>sA >>> This time round Sun has centered its attack on a new fleet of.E >>> Opteron servers, which were finally delivered in July, instead of E >>> its traditional UltraSPARC-based gear. As in the past, Sun offerswG >>> up free consulting services to HP customers to demonstrate how much G >>> a move from Tru64 or HP-UX will cost and how well applications willo> >>> perform on Solaris. Over the past year, Sun has pulled 150> >>> customers from HP, resulting in close to $200m in revenue. >>>sF >>> "We were focused on moving customers from RISC to RISC before, butF >>> now that we have these Opteron systems, we decided to offer a moveD >>> from HP RISC platforms to x86 as well," said Larry Singer, Sun's% >>> head of global market strategies.  >>>>F >>> One positive with the new Opteron program is that HP customers areC >>> being given a path from traditionally more expensive Alpha- and-1 >>> PA-RISC-based servers to lower-cost x86 gear.  >>>  >>> ^e >>> + >>>> ------- HP: Look at this paragraph !!!d >>>> >>>gE >>> Sun offers workstations, a two processor box and a four processor D >>> box based on AMD's x86-64-bit Opteron chip. Sun is familiar withC >>> this shift from RISC to x86, as it has seen a number of its keyiD >>> customers, particularly those in the financial services markets,2 >>> move from Solaris/SPARC kit to Linux on Intel. >>> E >>> These days, however, Sun's renewed interest in Solaris x86 has itpF >>> asking HP's customer base to make an easier Unix to Unix shift andG >>> just replace the processor underneath the OS. But with only up to aeG >>> four-processor Opteron system available, Sun won't be able to tempteF >>> HP's higher-end Unix customers to make this move. In addition, SunC >>> has yet to complete a 64-bit version of Solaris for Opteron. HP D >>> customers would need to be running 32-bit software or wait until" >>> December to get the 64-bit OS. >>>mE >>> Sun, of course, started this HP Away program to attract Alpha andmG >>> PA-RISC customers that are being forced to move onto Intel's 64-bitnD >>> Itanium processor, as HP pulls out of the processor-making game.
 >>> (...)" >>>n >> >>F >> So HP has their own 'Total Eclipse' program to woo Sun whoreshipers >> away to HP. >>? >> From http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/archives/SKHPCV11N33.pdf  >>F >> "Sun worshippers who want to reduce their IT TCO, exploit the lowerF >> cost and higher performance of industry standard systems, enjoy theD >> freedom of open source computing, become more agile and adaptive,F >> and take the next evolutionary step in the datacenter may find thatE >> HP and Intel outshine Sun. The Total Eclipse program offers Sun to A >> HP migration assistance services with a proof of concept offernD >> valued at up to $50K USD as well as system trade in choices to HPG >> industry standard hardware and Linux, Windows, and HP-UX OS choices.uB >> The offer includes the use of a proof of concept system for the0 >> duration of the project at no charge to you." >>F >> If Sr. Shannon's article is correct, I note the conspicuous absence >> of OpenVMS in the offer.' >>B >> Seems to me that HP is offering Solaris users to trade from oneF >> sow's ear to another, or worse. How is that beneficial to the user? >> >> >> >iA > Agreed.  I was going to point out that they are talking Unix toeG > Unix/Linux, but it seems that HP just cannot say one sentence withoutrD > uttering the word 'windows'.  With that in there, the ommission of > VMS becomes significant.         "....PL Sun Microsystems has undertaken a campaign called HPAway to lure AlphaServerI Tru64 Unix customers to its AMD Opteron workstations and servers. Sun haseK boasted that 150 customers have migrated so far. Shannon, however, said thebH overwhelming majority of Alpha users are moving to HP Itanium computers.G "You've got more than 700,000 Alphas out there and a quarter of millionaH users, and Sun is bragging about 150 users?" asked Shannon rhetorically. "That's nothing." "p      2 http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20040820S0005  J Of course it's nothing....Sun's campaign is just getting started. Wait til it's been going a while.  K Sun has better prospects at bringing VMS customer to Solaris than HP has ofP  bringing Solaris users to PH-UX.  L HP ought to be advertising VMS....but we all know what they are going to do.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:45:06 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n, Subject: Re: Total Eclipse...was Re: HP Away, Message-ID: <412A4934.1E2BC782@teksavvy.com>  M > boasted that 150 customers have migrated so far. Shannon, however, said thepJ > overwhelming majority of Alpha users are moving to HP Itanium computers.I > "You've got more than 700,000 Alphas out there and a quarter of million J > users, and Sun is bragging about 150 users?" asked Shannon rhetorically. > "That's nothing." "0    L There may be 700,000 Alphas out there, but how many customers ? IF you have L customers with 1,000 alphas, and Sun has targetted those customers, then 150S customers represents 150,000 alphas being replaced by Suns. Not a figure to ignore.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:14:08 -0300o* From: Ben Armstrong <ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca>= Subject: Re: Trouble with writable shareable psect in libraryX= Message-ID: <pan.2004.08.23.18.14.06.966858@bgpc.dymaxion.ca>t  9 On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:40:27 +0000, Keith A. Lewis wrote:t  8 > Ben Armstrong <ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca> writes in articleJ > <pan.2004.08.23.15.21.29.716467@bgpc.dymaxion.ca> dated Mon, 23 Aug 2004 > 12:21:30 -0300:t >>Can't loadD >>'DSA0:[DYMAX.WIP.SWIG-1_3_21.EXAMPLES.PERL5.SIMPLE2]EXAMPLE.EXE;1'F >> for module example: %SYSTEM-F-NOTINSTALL, writable shareable images >> mustt >>  be installed >> at example.pm line 7i >>6 >>The Makefile rule to link the library is as follows: > [snip] > ? > That is a run-time error message, nothing to do with linking.d  H As I stated later in the part you snipped, I'm trying to avoid having toC install the image.  Please reread the whole post to see my specific G questions at the end.  I did, in fact, read help/message for this erroriH message.  It failed to answer my questions, so that's why I posted here.  ! > My guess at the proper command:r >  > $ INSTALL ADDaA > DSA0:[DYMAX.WIP.SWIG-1_3_21.EXAMPLES.PERL5.SIMPLE2]EXAMPLE.EXE-a
 > 	/WRITEABLEa > D > The exact command is probably documented somewhere in your example
 > package.  F The question is not simply how to make the error message go away.  TheH question is, how do I make the module not require installation (a hassleD to maintain, especially since no other parts of our software requireJ installation, and I don't want this to be the first one,) in order to run?I Or am I asking for the impossible? I looked at the example code and couldo, not understand why it needed to be writable.  J Or to put it another way: how can I craft a module with SWIG so that it isA not writable, and therefore doesn't need installation?  Are thereoG particular constructs in my code to avoid?  Switches for the compile tot7 specify/avoid?  Switches for the link to specify/avoid?e   Thanks,v Bene   -- lG       Ben Armstrong                -.       Medianet Development Group, E       BArmstrong@dymaxion.ca         `-.    Dymaxion Research LimiteduH       <URL: http://www.dymaxion.ca/>    `-  Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:10:45 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)= Subject: Re: Trouble with writable shareable psect in libraryh. Message-ID: <cgdj05$foe$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Ben Armstrong <ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca> writes in article <pan.2004.08.23.18.14.06.966858@bgpc.dymaxion.ca> dated Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:14:08 -0300:nI >As I stated later in the part you snipped, I'm trying to avoid having toWD >install the image.  Please reread the whole post to see my specificH >questions at the end.  I did, in fact, read help/message for this errorI >message.  It failed to answer my questions, so that's why I posted here.0  K OK, short attention span on my part, now that the goal is clear maybe I canl be of more help.  H The FOO psect is the only one of yours which is both SHR and WRT.  It isH probably created by the declaration of Foo in example.c.  I think if youL remove that, you'll get a shareable image that doesn't have to be installed.  J I have a shareable image which works non-installed that has SHR psects and WRT psects, but none are both.  G >The question is not simply how to make the error message go away.  TheoI >question is, how do I make the module not require installation (a hasslerE >to maintain, especially since no other parts of our software requirebK >installation, and I don't want this to be the first one,) in order to run?-J >Or am I asking for the impossible? I looked at the example code and could- >not understand why it needed to be writable.c  E The variable isn't even used, but it's declared outside a function.     K >Or to put it another way: how can I craft a module with SWIG so that it isDB >not writable, and therefore doesn't need installation?  Are thereH >particular constructs in my code to avoid?  Switches for the compile to8 >specify/avoid?  Switches for the link to specify/avoid?  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:01:57 -0300-* From: Ben Armstrong <ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca>= Subject: Re: Trouble with writable shareable psect in libraryr= Message-ID: <pan.2004.08.23.21.01.51.775255@bgpc.dymaxion.ca>s  9 On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:10:45 +0000, Keith A. Lewis wrote:i   > Ben Armstrong <ben@bgpc.dymaxion.ca> writes in article <pan.2004.08.23.18.14.06.966858@bgpc.dymaxion.ca> dated Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:14:08 -0300:SJ > The FOO psect is the only one of yours which is both SHR and WRT.  It isJ > probably created by the declaration of Foo in example.c.  I think if youN > remove that, you'll get a shareable image that doesn't have to be installed.  # Foolishly simple.  Yes, that works.r  G > The variable isn't even used, but it's declared outside a function.  w  ) It is used only by the example.pl script:S   use example;   ...w$ # Manipulate the Foo global variable   # Output its current value print "Foo = $example::Foo\n";   # Change its value $example::Foo = 3.1415926;   # See if the change took effectc print "Foo = $example::Foo\n";    F If I remove the example.i, example.c and example.pl references to thisI variable, then I no longer have the writable shareable error.  Instead, In have a new error:    $ perl example.pliM Can't load 'DSA0:[DYMAX.WIP.SWIG-1_3_21.EXAMPLES.PERL5.SIMPLE2]EXAMPLE.EXE;1'e=   for module example: %LIB-F-KEYNOTFOU, key not found in treee  at example.pm line 7   / Well, example.pm line 7 contains the following:    bootstrap example;  J So I guess the DynaLoader is still choking on example.exe.  I will have toE poke at this some more and see if I can come up with an answer, or ato% least an intelligent question or two.    Thanks a bunch.    Ben, -- aG       Ben Armstrong                -.       Medianet Development Group,tE       BArmstrong@dymaxion.ca         `-.    Dymaxion Research LimitedoH       <URL: http://www.dymaxion.ca/>    `-  Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:13:41 GMT % From: Bob Harris <harris@zk3.dec.com>rT Subject: Re: Unix/VMS programming environment, was: Re: If OVMS is killed  by HP....B Message-ID: <harris-CFCD95.17134023082004@cacnews.cac.cpqcorp.net>  3 In article <6MmXcNMwLRg9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,M=  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   < > In article <41280F68.8090400@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble  > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:v > > K > > Good enough, I've been educated on the select() function in C on Linux.t > D >    select() is not part of the C library on UNIX, it's part of theF >    kernel.  Like most system services are part of the kernel on VMS.  F Yes (and no).  Generally all UNIX system calls are fronted by a small D wrapper in the libc library.  The wrapper doesn't do much.  It just G marshals the call arguments, handles the error return, and getting the eG error value into errno, etc...  But but it does not actually implement FH the function.  In that regards select() and all the other kernel system . calls are not in libc, just the call wrappers.  K > > Maybe this is a question only a VMS person would ask.  What if I'm not  K > > programming in C on Unix/Linux?  Do I have any other options besides C?  > C >    There are lots of other languages, but you'll find support forlE >    calling UNIX kernel functions pretty weak in many of them.  LooksH >    for POSIX compliance in the compiler.  For example there is a POSIXF >    interface for Fortran which you might be able to get in a Fortran >    compiler.  G If you can link against libc, then you can use any language when using  F UNIX standard library and system calls.  If the calling convention of D your language will not allow you to pass the arguments correctly to B libc, then you would need a special library to do all the correct I wrapper things that allow you to intrface with the standard UNIX library c and system calls.e  2                                         Bob Harris4                                         12 years VMS5                                         12 years UNIXo   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:03:53 GMTg4 From: Kent Behrends <kent.at.bci.com@nospam.invalid>G Subject: Re: Unknown OPCOM message: "clm privilege violation" More infoi? Message-ID: <230820041402318683%kent.at.bci.com@nospam.invalid>@  E In article <00A36554.3A3A9171@SendSpamHere.ORG>, < @SendSpamHere.ORG>e wrote:  O > In article <130820041914341457%kent.at.bci.com@nospam.invalid>, Kent Behrendse* > <kent.at.bci.com@nospam.invalid> writes:< > >I am getting the following opcom messages on all 5 of my # > >OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 cluster nodes:n > >eJ > >%%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   9-AUG-2004 10:55:08.26  %%%%%%%%%%%  DUMP_LOG_FILE > > I > >OPCOM has noticed a condition which might be due to an internal error. M > >It might also be explained by normal events, especially if nodes have justgO > >crashed or rebooted in a VAXcluster.  Please bring this message to Digital's J > >attention only if you are having problems with operator communications. > >t> > >Buffer is   219 (%X00DB) bytes -- "clm privilege violation"K > > 6174733C 20202020 20204D45 54535953 00010004 FFFFFFFF 5FFFFFFF 00000008u) > > ......._........SYSTEM      <sta 0000cO > > 00000001 0094000A 4D40000A 47200001 000D0000 00B50902 0413130C 203E7472 rt>o% > > ............. G..@M........ 00202K > > 00080000 00010000 00000000 00000000 0407000A 47C00001 000D0000 00000000-) > > ..........G.................... 00400K > > 4D455453 59532020 20202020 4D455453 59530001 0004FFFF FFFFFFFF FFFF0000I) > > ..............SYSTEM      SYSTEM 0060KM > > 00000001 00040000 00010000 000000FF F9FF0000 00020000 0000010A 00042020  c' > > ............................. 0080rK > > 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 000D0000 00010006 00060000 00000000n) > > ................................ 00A0xK > > 00000000 003A3041 504F2431 30565245 535F6961 67612067 6E690000 00000000g) > > ......ing agai_SERV01$OPA0:..... 00C0  > >  > >r > >Anyone have any ideas?T > >a > >--  > >--- > >Kent Behrends  > >BEHR Consulting International > >http://www.bci.com) >  >  > Is RDB on this system?   Yes    -- v ---o
 Kent Behrends  BEHR Consulting International- http://www.bci.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:26:57 GMTR6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>* Subject: UPDATE: OpenVMS Press Opportunity@ Message-ID: <5yrWc.184649$wH4.12259741@twister.southeast.rr.com>  J I've been approached by a writer from one of the large trade publications.  I Several have responded to the earlier calling.  I appreciate your effortsa and so does the VMS community.  J I thought the deadline was sooner but it's this Friday, Aug 27th, we still" have time.  We need the following:  @ 1) Someone still on VAX and not planning to change any time soon7 2) Someone who was on VMS, went elsewhere and came backt  J If you wish to be interview please reply to kfarmer (at) openvms (dot) org with:    1) Name2 2) Email address 3) Company nameF/ 4) Your situation, 1 or 2 (please spell it out)OK 5) Your phone number.  I'm going to call everyone first before I pass theirs name on to the writer.  H Obviously this information will be made public through the interview, so  make sure your company approves.  I Some of you are always wanting VMS to get more exposure.  Here is a great K opportunity.  Contact me if you want further details.  I won't forward youreI info until you feel comfortable.  We need to jump at every chance for ouru beloved VMS.  :)   Kent   -- Kenneth R. Farmer <><n http://www.OpenVMS.org   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 13:16:11 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n$ Subject: Re: VAX Instruction Timings3 Message-ID: <0mnyVrkYRh1I@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  a In article <f3598ae1.0408200649.556e7383@posting.google.com>, nyce3000@hotmail.com (Dave) writes:rG > Has anybody experience in obtaining the execution timings for the VAX % > instruction set, any model will do?   F   Varies, depending on instruction mix, cache misses, page faults, ...  A   I once measured everything less painfull than page faults on ant9   11/780, varies _a lot_ for a given set of instructions.o   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 16:53:10 -07000 From: chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk (Chris Doran)$ Subject: Re: VAX Instruction Timings= Message-ID: <948f0720.0408231553.2b27611d@posting.google.com>   f nyce3000@hotmail.com (Dave) wrote in message news:<f3598ae1.0408200649.556e7383@posting.google.com>...G > Has anybody experience in obtaining the execution timings for the VAXd% > instruction set, any model will do?o  < Way back in 1985, Ned Freed of Harvey Mudd College did a VAXC instruction set manual/HELP file which included timings for 11/780,aE /750, and /730. It was called VAXINSTHLP.RNO and lived on a SIG tape,cF but I'm not sure which and Google doesn't find it. E-mail me if a copy will be of any use.o   Chrisw   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:21:43 +02002+ From: Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl>nG Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK 5 Message-ID: <412a35dd$0$1888$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>1  G > Sorry, I forgot about that. Running simh under Win2K, I never had theiF > inpression that it uses up all the cpu time, even with a single cpu.I > Today, I run it under Win2K on a double-cpu-Intelistation (2x 733 MHz),.( > so I wont have these problems anyway.  < Tom's right, a VAX loops when idle (as opposed to other CPU I technologies, that can wait for an interrupt when idle). An emulated VAX eE (SIMH or Charon-VAX) that is accurate enough in its emulation of the uI hardware VAX, will cause the host CPU to use 100% CPU independant of the s1 idle time reported by, for instance, VMS Monitor.   I I don't know the power specs of a VAXstation. Running an AMD at 100% for t3 a few hours will surely test your cooling system...u   -- >
 Wilm Boerhout  Zwolle, The NetherlandsR   wilmOLD@PAINTboerhout.nl2    (remove OLD PAINT from this address before use)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:38:21 +0200s From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>> Subject: Re: What is/was ODS-6 ? (Referenced in recent HM2DEF)2 Message-ID: <cgdo4k$ul5$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>  P Spiralog has been retired, so we can be sure it is not Spiralog. I do know that O VMS engineering has been working on a new and faster filesystem for many years aG now, so I guess some of the first signs of it are already appearing in ?? structures like these. Maybe Hoff or Hein can tell us more ????        Simon Clubley wrote:U > In article <cgc1jo$rfk$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:  >  >>Glenn Everhart wrote:t >> >>>Dirk Munk wrote:d >>>e >>>tH >>>>Unless it is a typo, it could be the new filesystem VMS engineering . >>>>has been working on for many years now.... >>>> >>>>Simon Clubley wrote: >>>> >>>>< >>>>>What is/was ODS-6 ? (Have a look in a recent HM2DEF...) >>>>>e >>>>>Simon.l >>>>>a >>>e >>>Remember Spiralog?o >>1 >>I never used it, but wasn't that before ODS-5 ?  >  > J > That's what I thought as well. Also these definitions are on V7.3-1, but > are not in V7.2-1. > # > From hm2def.h on a V7.3-1 system:m > P > #define HM2$C_LEVEL1 257                /* 401 octal = structure level 1    */P > #define HM2$C_LEVEL2 512                /* 1000 octal = structure level 2   */P > #define HM2$C_LEVEL5 1280               /* 2400 octal = structure level 5   */P > #define HM2$C_LEVEL6 1536               /* 3000 octal = structure level 6   */ > + > (V7.2-1 only goes upto LEVEL5, ie: ODS-5)i > N > Also, some fields have been added to the home block definition, one of which > is:f > f >     unsigned short int hm2$w_viboffset; /* Offset in bytes to VIB (ODS6 Volume Information Block) */ >  > Simon. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:21:06 -0400t# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>.2 Subject: Re: WORD documents and corporate security, Message-ID: <3tGdna-mJscIqLfcRVn-jw@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----.7 >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]y  >> Sent: August 23, 2004 1:18 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 >> Subject: OT: WORD documents and corporate securityh >>8 >> Word is finally getting around that the bloat in WORD >> documents may cause manys >> problems to corporations. >>A >> http://news.com.com/Software+maker+exposes+hidden+data/2100-10 ! >> 12_3-5320006.html?tag=nefd.topM >>> >> For instance, analysis of some WORD documents posted on the >> Bliar government'sy? >> web site revealed that some of the deleted text contradicted  >> the arguments> >> used to justify Bliar's helping the Bush regime invasion of >> Iraq. Similarly,"< >> analysis of SCO's WORD documents posted on their web site >> revealed that they ? >> had originally planned to sue Bank of America (text that wasO >> originally in the" >> document but had been cut out). >>> >> So one more argument to never send WORD documents via email >> or post them on> >> web site since they contain far more then just the text you >> intend to send. >> >iC > JF - that's likely why PDF files are gaining much more widespreadd5 > acceptance i.e. smaller sizes and no "hidden" text.a >iF > By the way, what is always interesting is even with text cleaned up,= > what many forget to clean up is hidden in the Word document  > "Properties".n >l. > Open any WORD file, then do File-Properties. >u > The info may surprise you.    H HP should buy WordPerfect then they can have a series of proprietary andL 'open' operating systems with a compatible office suite - bundled with everyH system (PC and otherwise) sold. Offer it at a good price to Gateway, and others too.,  A That surely would eat into one of the most profitable portions of:L Microsoft's business, and help sap the Borg's strength. That Corel never had5 the financial muscle backing them was their downfall.j  I Wordperfect is still arguably the best word processor going, and for mostdJ documents Word/WordPerfect users can open/read/write each others documents
 just fine.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.468 ************************