1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 24 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 469       Contents:! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ( How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux, Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux, Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux, Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux, Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  IMAP for TCPIP 5.3 eco2 8 Re: Installing OpenVMS Alpha on PWS 600au without CD-ROM- Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security ( Print to file using print/queue command., Re: Print to file using print/queue command., Re: Print to file using print/queue command. Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Re, Re : set prompt  Re: Routing under VMS F SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP WorldJ Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP WorldP Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP World World3 Re: TCPIP: FTP of directory names starting with dot > Re: Unknown OPCOM message: "clm privilege violation" More info Re: VAX Instruction Timings > Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK) Re: WORD documents and corporate security   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:47:34 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???B Message-ID: <412b7127$0$19558$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   John Vottero wrote: D > "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote in message < > news:lfrWc.184645$wH4.12257497@twister.southeast.rr.com... > ! >>Interex cowers behind HP omerta : >>http://www.theregister.com/2004/08/23/hp_number_silence/ >> >  > L > "Only 9 percent of OpenVMS customers plan to move onto Itanium this year, N > with 24 percent making the move in the next two years and 15 percent moving H > in the next five years. Again, 52 percent of the OpenVMS crowd has no : > intention of moving onto Itanium, according to Interex." > N > It's all in the spin, change that last line to: OpenVMS on Itanium is still J > in beta and already 48% of OpenVMS users are making plans to move to it.C and 52 percent of the OpenVMS crowd have no discernible intentions   (yet), according to Interex.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 00:29:37 -0700) From: sebbylind@yahoo.com.au (Sebby Lind) 1 Subject: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux = Message-ID: <8b171295.0408232329.6ccb6483@posting.google.com>   F I need to provide some support for a old but critical VMS system (7.1)  - How can I monitor this from Windows or Linux?   F I prefer using free tools/scripts (or not so expensive software) sinceC we can't spend much more money on these systems since they are soon ' (within a year or so) to be turned off.    Regards, Sebby  Sydney, Australia    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:11:03 GMT # From: "Phil" <dooleys@snowy.net.au> 5 Subject: Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux ; Message-ID: <rfGWc.5739$D7.4129@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   6 "Sebby Lind" <sebbylind@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message7 news:8b171295.0408232329.6ccb6483@posting.google.com... H > I need to provide some support for a old but critical VMS system (7.1) > / > How can I monitor this from Windows or Linux?  > H > I prefer using free tools/scripts (or not so expensive software) sinceE > we can't spend much more money on these systems since they are soon ) > (within a year or so) to be turned off. K     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - I've heard that one before (for a number of years now) I You can install the Insight Manager agents on VMS, and monitor from a web  page, : (also be aware of the security implications of doing this)I It works ok for the basics, but I was never able to set the % disk alarms 
 successfully. 3 You may have better luck with a more recent version I If you have nagios running on linux, vms monitoring can be "made to work"  Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:28:54 +0200 ) From: Roland Barmettler <itsme@127.0.0.1> 5 Subject: Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux 5 Message-ID: <20040824142854.0abaf2e2.itsme@127.0.0.1>   , Phil wrote on Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:11:03 GMT: > E > If you have nagios running on linux, vms monitoring can be "made to  > work"   A I entirely agree. I'm using Nagios on Linux and self-written perl F scripts (which in turn use SNMP tools) to monitor all our VMS systems.B It's quite easy to setup, only SNMP needs to be running on the VMS	 machines.    Cheers, Roland   -- 3rd Law of Computing:          Anything that can go wr   Segmentation fault (core dumped)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:23:29 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)5 Subject: Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux 2 Message-ID: <ljHWc.8629$v22.6423@news.cpqcorp.net>  * Depending upon what you mean by "monitor";  : I would look at Availability Manager, which runs on recent6 versions of Windows, and is available at no cost.  You9 install the AM/AMDS driver on your VMS system and you can 6 then see a lot of what is going on from any OpenVMS or% Windows system running the AM viewer.   ; You should find a link to it from the HP OpenVMS home page,  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/   or this link should work  4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/availman/   --  (  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 08:09:06 -0700+ From: w3.boerhout@planet.nl (Wilm Boerhout) 5 Subject: Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux = Message-ID: <e97468c6.0408240709.5fcaa9d7@posting.google.com>   n sebbylind@yahoo.com.au (Sebby Lind) wrote in message news:<8b171295.0408232329.6ccb6483@posting.google.com>...H > I need to provide some support for a old but critical VMS system (7.1) > / > How can I monitor this from Windows or Linux?   F Monitoring is easy: just open a telnet or VT emulator session from any? Windows or Linux system, log in to the VMS system and issue a $ F MONITOR CLUSTER command. Yes, even though you have no cluster, it will? provide you with a one screen dynamic display of system status.   C Now whenever something seems to go wrong (disk I/O bouncing off the D scale, CPU continuously at 100%, ...) you will need to know what VMSF buttons to push and which commands to issue. Only experience (or trial: and error, combined with angry users) will help you there.  F There is an open source monitoring tool (Nagios, www.nagios.com) and a@ VMS agent as been developed for it. It's OK, but in order to setE baselines and configure it properly, you need... experience with VMS.   D Maybe a combination of the open source software and a couple of days7 from a friendly local VMS consultant does it for you...   
 Wilm Boerhout 
 VX Company The Netherlands    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:55:06 +0200   From: "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com>( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <cfu2ci$6gm$1@news.cybercity.dk>   Bob Ceculski wrote: 0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message7 > news:<NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICELLDKAA.tom@kednos.com>...  >> <D >> < And all of this only supplies additional ammunition for Sun andF >> IBM to < encourage VMS customers to switch - "Hey, if you are goingE >> to be forced to < switch operating systems, you may as well switch = >> to a company that cares < about having your business too."  >>G >> I only just yesterday spoke with someone very close who is in senior  >> managmentF >> at one of the largest financial firms in the world, and they have a >> plethora ofF >> systems, Suns, Tru64+sybase, OpenVMS  and for their new procurement
 >> he told me D >> that the criteria were in HP's favor over Sun and IBM, but in the >> end it appearedG >> it was going to IBM.  I extolled the virtues of VMS,  but Sybase was  >> a problem andA >> he couldn't sell VMS to management and the future with Itanium  >> looked far too risky. >>/ >> BTW, why is Sybase not supported on OpenVMS?  > C > why aren't these people on OpenVMS and RDB?  They are a financial > > institution, don't they want to up 24x7 and have the best in > security and clustering?  I They probably could not find anyone in Oracle who knew what it was, never H mind one willing to try and sell/supply it to them ! Rdb is the unwanted& child at Oracle, just as VMS is at HP.  L Rdb is is far greater danger of being terminated at any second than VMS is IK believe. It has come within a hairs breadth of being canned on at least one J occasion, and saved by a fortuitous coincidence rather than any great love of the product by Larry E.  H Also, the reason is usually 3. party application designed for a specific database - in this case Sybase.   	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 11:57:58 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <ebveUoBjCgHw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4120DCAC.D64B9A9E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > One idea:  > I > When IA64 fails, and the printer business can no longer count on making M > profits by selling ink, perhaps HP might declare bankrupcy, at which point, P > creditors might force HP to sell VMS to someone who would make good use of it.  K When IA64 fails, I wonder what HP will do with the Alpha IP rights it still : owns? They only licensed it to Intel, they didn't sell it.  . For that matter, HP could license it to AMD...  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 12:02:00 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <KQE9Y4rCsXHV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <d0e744c9.0408162323.18ab5adc@posting.google.com>, leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) writes:C > "While overall revenues for the Palo Alto, Calif., company grew 9 B > percent in its third fiscal quarter ended July 31, sales for its; > Business Critical Systems unit, which includes Alpha- and E > PA-RISC-based servers, declined 8 percent, said HP Chairman and CEO D > Carly Fiorina, who announced the financial results in a conference2 > call with analysts and the media last Thursday."  I Big surprise when you end-of-life all your high end systems several years L before their replacements are ready for shipments. My former employer dumpedB both Alpha and PArisc because they will be unsupported by criticalK applications before they fall off the depreciation schedule. Guess what TLA  they are buying now?   :-(   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 12:05:24 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <GKQp1PjGT+WK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <Jc9Id50sX1QJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: T > In article <V4OdnSgB0uqtl7_cRVn-sQ@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>  I >> And all of this only supplies additional ammunition for Sun and IBM to M >> encourage VMS customers to switch - "Hey, if you are going to be forced to K >> switch operating systems, you may as well switch to a company that cares # >> about having your business too."  > J >    Any company that cares to have my business will provide a system that> >    doesn't need an attached patch-o-matic.  Sun's not there.  G A former colleague of mine used to refer to a particular unix vendor as  "Hourly Patches"...   H *** EVERY *** weekend he was working wee hours in the morning installing7 more patches than I put on to a VMS cluster in 4 years.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 12:06:59 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <0SW4jM2IU76W@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <4121C77A.201@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: 6 > I have the perfect job for her.  Target drone pilot.  J Sorry. That job is reserved for Bob Palmer. But Carly, Curly, et al can be the backup pilots.  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 12:11:13 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....3 Message-ID: <fvRt9lc+GyKg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <cg4iu4$lgp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove_.harrison@s_u_n.com> writes:5 > Care to elaborate base on your experiences of using / > a current Solaris based system clustered ????   J care to quote the uptime of any Solaris based cluster. Let us know when it hits 10 years. Or 19 years.   * Nope I guess not so who is laughing now  ? --    1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:41:07 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>   Subject: IMAP for TCPIP 5.3 eco2< Message-ID: <T4LWc.4991$295.3327@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>   OpenVMS 7.3-1 update 2 TCPIP 5.3-182 (eco 2)   )          Image Identification Information   *                  image name: "IMAP$SERVER"6                  image file identification: "V5.3-18B"C                  image file build identification: "PCSI-0000000200" 8                  link date/time: 26-NOV-2002 10:19:20.220                  linker identification: "A11-50"  Q Under certain yet-to-be-determined conditions, I have several sites from which I  P I cannot get mail -> IF my IMAP server is running AND my IMAP-client has made a Q connection. Because the client continues to check for new email, this connection  N never terminates.  Most sites I do get new mail, but from a few, I do not.  I R had increased the log level for SMTP to 2 and what I found in a *RUN.LOG file was:  4 recv_serv: local host = <removed>.firstdbasource.com, recv_serv: remote host = mail2.<removed>.com! recv_serv: client_known = UNKNOWN O send buf=220 <removed>.firstdbasource.com V5.3-18E, OpenVMS V7.3-1 Alpha ready  / at Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:53:03 -0500 (CDT) \0d\0a P #smtp_net_util\328 smtp_read_reply,fd=3,buf=,len=4096,cookie=1,timemin=5,timenow   20-AUG-2004 15:53:03.68 1 #smtp_read_reply:B4 select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0 4 #smtp_read_reply:After select: vaxc$errno=1, errno=0  #smtp_read_reply:select:status=0( #smtp_read_reply:rmask=0,wmask=0,emask=0> recv_serv: read failed; status=0x22c; iosb[0]=0x1, iosb[1]=0x0! %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout   P I then shut down the IMAP server and when another user at the same company sent Q me an email, I indeed did get it.  So, now I start the IMAP server, read any new  J messages and then shut down the IMAP server until I can figure this out...  K I may need to revert to a POP server... but I like having the email on the  ! server and access it via YAHMail.    --   Michael Austin.  Consultant - Not Available. F Donations still welcomed. Http://www.firstdbasource.com/donations.html :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:43:04 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>A Subject: Re: Installing OpenVMS Alpha on PWS 600au without CD-ROM * Message-ID: <2p0dcsFfceqtU1@uni-berlin.de>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:b > In article <noSdnQ6AabrII7XcRVnyuA@scarlet.biz>, "Starlet731" <starlet731@attglobal.net> writes: > K >>I have 2 local disks in the PWS, so your proposed configuration procedure N >>would work, but how do I boot the PWS into the cluster via the EWA0 ethernet" >>interface from it's SRM console? >  >  > That's the easy part ;-) >  > M >>Is this with BOOT EWA0? When I do this it continuously retries and will not L >>boot into the cluster. Do have have to give other options to this command? >  > 
 > Yes. No. > M > This means the bootserver (AS1000) is not working (/setup) as a bootserver. I > You need to configure it first. This was already mentioned here in this  > thread (@CLUSTER_CONFIG)...  > J > btw: Without a VMScluster license you can login only from OPA0. But thisG > shouldn't be a problem on an unconfigured system (otherwise disabling " > MOTIF or so might be neccessary) >   B And as I experienced last week when my hobbyist licenses expired, E without a valid VMSCLUSTER license, VMS will simply shut down during  H startup if it's configured as a cluster. I needed to set the VAXCLUSTER ! parameter to 0 to get it to boot.   D (In fact I ended up setting the date back to renew the licenses and  apply them.)   --  
 Paul Sture  - OS X: "It's Unix, Jim, but not as we know it"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:07:31 +0200 . From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security+ Message-ID: <412B2F83.786ACD06@T-Online.de>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: >    [...]  > I > It's not a security flaw, it's a stupidity flaw.  I suppose no one here I > ever noticed the "undo" button.  If the previously changed data was not H > maintained in the document, how could it do an "undo"??  The answer isE > to use the "Save As" button which creates a new copy that doesn not H > contain any of the old cruft.  This has been documented numerous times! > over the past decade, at least.   ? The "save as" button still creates a file that contains lots of C information you might not want to share; i. e. the users name, the C authors name, full path to the file, and, the serial number of the 	 software.   @ As long as you use a single pc at home, the path does not make aC difference, but working in a network of a company, or, a government F entity, often compromises part of the network structure. Ive stored aH doc file on my server at home, and this string is contained in the file:C " \ \ J O S H U A \ B R I E F E \ t e s t . d o c". "joshua" is the  servers name.  G Look at a small sample word doc file using the standard editor (the one > from NT4 and above handles larger files, so it works with real0 documents) and see what is included in the file.   [...]    Frank    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Aug 2004 12:39:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security* Message-ID: <2p0r83Ffd301U1@uni-berlin.de>  + In article <412B2F83.786ACD06@t-online.de>, 1 	Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>   >  > [...]  >>  J >> It's not a security flaw, it's a stupidity flaw.  I suppose no one hereJ >> ever noticed the "undo" button.  If the previously changed data was notI >> maintained in the document, how could it do an "undo"??  The answer is F >> to use the "Save As" button which creates a new copy that doesn notI >> contain any of the old cruft.  This has been documented numerous times " >> over the past decade, at least. > A > The "save as" button still creates a file that contains lots of B > information you might not want to share; i. e. the users name,   D Only if the user provided his/her name  in which case they must not  have had any concern.   H >                                                                    the > authors name,     Same as above.  + >                   full path to the file,    / Pretty much useless information to an outsider.   H >                                          and, the serial number of the > software.     A totally useless random number.   > B > As long as you use a single pc at home, the path does not make aE > difference, but working in a network of a company, or, a government ; > entity, often compromises part of the network structure.     How?  H >                                                          Ive stored aJ > doc file on my server at home, and this string is contained in the file:E > " \ \ J O S H U A \ B R I E F E \ t e s t . d o c". "joshua" is the  > servers name.  = OK, and what does that provide me? If you are trully security  conscious you:@ 1. Don't use the same name for the NetBios/WinServer name as you=    do for the name associated with the IP Address of the box. A 2. Block all MS Network access at your firewall so no one can get '    to the machine by it's NetBios name.  3. Don't run Windows at all.  D OK, OK, so number three is somewhat unrealistic in todays world, butF then, if you are going to compromise security for the sake of businessB expedience then you shouldn't really complain about other security3 problems directly related to your own actions.  :-)      > I > Look at a small sample word doc file using the standard editor (the one @ > from NT4 and above handles larger files, so it works with real2 > documents) and see what is included in the file.  ? I just took one of my word documents.  Here's what's available: '    Location:  Z:/My Documents/WO Packet F    Ttile:     NAME: GUNSHANNON, William F.  (hint: first line of doc.)    Author:    Bill Gunshannon     Company:   UofS0    Created, Modified, Accessed and Printed date.    Last saved by: bill    Revision number: 2      Total editing time: 5 Minutes@    Pages, Paragraphs, Lines, Characters, Characters with spaces.;    Document contents: "Title: NAME: GUNSHANNON, William F." 
    Type: text   > Please tell me what information is contained in there that the? recipient of the document is not likely to already have that is ? of any value whatsoever?  (Oh yeah, Z: is a network drive on a  = remote server, so hiding that is really rather easy and no, I  didn't do it on purpose.)   F Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get you.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:26:43 +0200 . From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security+ Message-ID: <412B5023.2871F9CE@T-Online.de>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:   [...]   E > Only if the user provided his/her name  in which case they must not  > have had any concern.   D ... which is the default, and, most people dont know how to turn it off.   > > authors name, >  > Same as above.  H What if the users name is a users ID for the mainframe system (like inH my office)? How about user names that match or suggest trivil passwords?( Would you like that in your own company?  , > >                   full path to the file, > 1 > Pretty much useless information to an outsider.   F ... not if the path reflects the structure of the entity (i. e. in the- DoD). This is the case for a lot of entities.   J > >                                          and, the serial number of the
 > > software.  > " > A totally useless random number.  F ... really? It is at least (almost?) unique. One can match the authors of different documents.    [...]   B > 1. Don't use the same name for the NetBios/WinServer name as you? >    do for the name associated with the IP Address of the box. C > 2. Block all MS Network access at your firewall so no one can get ) >    to the machine by it's NetBios name.  > 3. Don't run Windows at all.  H 1. An option for the admin, not for the user. There are some reasons notC to do so. Forget about the network you are used to - my company has E several thousand pcs and more than one mainframe installation. If you / dont use names systematically, youre screwed.   H 2. Sure - but what if the security problem is caused inside the network?D Have you ever worked for a very large company or for the government?   3. no comment...  F > OK, OK, so number three is somewhat unrealistic in todays world, butH > then, if you are going to compromise security for the sake of businessD > expedience then you shouldn't really complain about other security5 > problems directly related to your own actions.  :-)    [...]   H > Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get you.  D Im not paranoid - this thread is about company security! At home, IH dont give a sh**, but in the office, there are rules I have to obey. TheH german government did something just like what JF Mezei wrote about, andE somebody outside the government was able to identify the person, and, H the pc of this guy, who tuned some text to make it look better (he faked statistics...).   E A company could easily loose a multi-million contract due to security  problems like this.    Frank    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Aug 2004 16:04:50 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security* Message-ID: <2p178sFfh0ovU1@uni-berlin.de>  + In article <412B5023.2871F9CE@t-online.de>, 1 	Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  > [...]  > F >> Only if the user provided his/her name  in which case they must not >> have had any concern. > F > ... which is the default, and, most people dont know how to turn it > off.  > You don't turn it off, you just don't provide or provide bogusA information the frirst time you run it.  Most people really don't  care.   D Think about it.  If I send you a document, its a pretty safe bet you> know my name.  So what additional information are you getting?   >  >> > authors name,  >>   >> Same as above.  > J > What if the users name is a users ID for the mainframe system (like in > my office)?   D That's a totally different security problem.  And, not MS's fault or problem.  K >              How about user names that match or suggest trivil passwords?   H Same as above,  Anyone really concerned with security has (and enforces)D a strong password policy.  (Of course, that brings up other problemsC like users writing passwords down but that is a subject for another  discussion.)  * > Would you like that in your own company?  F Being a school, my company doesn't care.  Just for your information, ID issue all the students first password.  It is computer generated andB totally random from a specific character set.  I suggest not usingE trivial passwords but I do not have the real authority to enforce it. G The government system I use on the other hand uses names as userids but 1 has a strong password policy and does enforce it.    > - >> >                   full path to the file,  >>  2 >> Pretty much useless information to an outsider. > H > ... not if the path reflects the structure of the entity (i. e. in the/ > DoD). This is the case for a lot of entities.   B Look at the one I provided.  What value is derived from that?  You@ can't even tell positively that it is not a local disk.  But, inH case your interested it could have been \\SERVER9.  Now, what additionalF information of value does that provide?  If one is concerned, one doesF a better job of seeing to it that information that might leak out does not contain useful information.    > K >> >                                          and, the serial number of the  >> > software. >>  # >> A totally useless random number.  > H > ... really? It is at least (almost?) unique. One can match the authors > of different documents.   E Ummmm.  You have the authors name.  A lot easier to compare them.  Do G you have any idea how many computers I have had on my desk since I have D been here?  And that number would be different on every one of them.B So, you could probably match the documents using that method for 6E months, maybe a year.  Not really a lot of value there.  I have a lab @ accross the hall from my office.  I can run Word on any of thoseE machines and the serial number would be different.  If I wish to hide E my identity, I would take steps to do it.  Most people probably don't E see much reason for doing this.  Ever watch any old murder mysteries? F Where they identify the killer by finding uniqueness in tha typewriterC used for something.  It only matters if you have a reason to remain + anonymous.  Most people don't really care.     >  > [...]  > C >> 1. Don't use the same name for the NetBios/WinServer name as you @ >>    do for the name associated with the IP Address of the box.D >> 2. Block all MS Network access at your firewall so no one can get* >>    to the machine by it's NetBios name. >> 3. Don't run Windows at all.  > J > 1. An option for the admin, not for the user. There are some reasons notE > to do so. Forget about the network you are used to - my company has G > several thousand pcs and more than one mainframe installation. If you 1 > dont use names systematically, youre screwed.   D Of course security is the admins job.  If your company doesn't see a> problem in letting that information out, then why would you?     > J > 2. Sure - but what if the security problem is caused inside the network?F > Have you ever worked for a very large company or for the government?  D Oh yes.  Still do.  Internal espionage is a totally different matterE and also not MS's problem.  So, when was the last time you swept your B office for bugs?  How about your home?  How much sensitive companyD information do you say out loud?  is your phone tapped?  Do you knowF for sure?  if the information contained routinely in MS Word documentsC was seen as a potential security problem the parties involved would C use other products, including the typewritter.  For most people and  companies, it is not.    >  > 3. no comment...  D Why?  How many security problems go away when you don't run Windows?C But, most companies consider the trade-off to great to make and the  risk to minor.   > G >> OK, OK, so number three is somewhat unrealistic in todays world, but I >> then, if you are going to compromise security for the sake of business E >> expedience then you shouldn't really complain about other security 6 >> problems directly related to your own actions.  :-) >  > [...]  > I >> Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get you.  > F > Im not paranoid - this thread is about company security! At home, IJ > dont give a sh**, but in the office, there are rules I have to obey. TheJ > german government did something just like what JF Mezei wrote about, andG > somebody outside the government was able to identify the person, and, J > the pc of this guy, who tuned some text to make it look better (he faked > statistics...).   B And, as I pointed out above this is nothing new.  It was done withA typewritters and even pen and paper long before Word came around.t   > G > A company could easily loose a multi-million contract due to securityx > problems like this.   I True, and security is very important.  But worrying about the small stuff G while ignoring the real threats is counter-productive.  The informationoG contained in the properties of a Word document pale incomparison to the.H contents of your office trashcan.  And that gets handled by some minimumH wage schmuck who would very likely sell his mother for a pack of smokes.C Be security conscious, but don't spend all your time worrying aboutD things that matter very little.c   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:39:09 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>e6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security, Message-ID: <412B7D3B.92139238@teksavvy.com>   Frank Themann wrote:J > What if the users name is a users ID for the mainframe system (like inJ > my office)? How about user names that match or suggest trivil passwords?* > Would you like that in your own company?    J What if the user name is that of a politician who has publicly denied everM writing/seeing this document ? The legal ramifications should that politicianVN go though some legal/impeachement process would be interesting. Would the userM name information hidden in the word document be usable as evidence in a court  of law ?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2004 23:56:48 -07004 From: jignesh_vyas@hotmail.com (Jignesh Vyas 'Jigs')1 Subject: Print to file using print/queue command.>= Message-ID: <908a2e17.0408232256.176e0831@posting.google.com>y   Hi,.  6 Is there a way to print the files to a directory using' print/queue=<queue> <filename> command.   4 Can i create a queue which copies files when issuing print/queue=<queue> command ???   C Reason to do this to prepare the file in a directory with all printmE ready files (header, page break..etc.) and then later copy this filesnD to another printer which can print these files. I can't ask users toF copy files to common directory instead of print bcos they can only useC print option and copy option is not available to them..So i have top< find some other way to collect those files in a common area.       -Jigsm   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:13:08 GMTiL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")5 Subject: Re: Print to file using print/queue command.b6 Message-ID: <00A36CF7.99373391@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  t In article <908a2e17.0408232256.176e0831@posting.google.com>, jignesh_vyas@hotmail.com (Jignesh Vyas 'Jigs') writes: >Hi, >r7 >Is there a way to print the files to a directory using ( >print/queue=<queue> <filename> command. >g5 >Can i create a queue which copies files when issuinge  >print/queue=<queue> command ??? >hD >Reason to do this to prepare the file in a directory with all printF >ready files (header, page break..etc.) and then later copy this filesE >to another printer which can print these files. I can't ask users tonG >copy files to common directory instead of print bcos they can only usesD >print option and copy option is not available to them..So i have to= >find some other way to collect those files in a common area.8  I (This is a long URL which you'll have to cut-and-paste, eliminating gaps,aI unless you're using Mozilla or some browser smart enough to remove blanksw itself.)    http://groups.google.com/groups?M hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=XzcOc.6826%24iE4.2109%40news.cpqcorp.net&o? rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dcomp.os.vms%2B%2522custom%2Bsymbiont%bG 2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26scoring%3Ddm  L This is the whole thread from the end of July where we discussed essentiallyJ this problem - replacing the regular symbiont on a queue with a custom oneE that does whatever you want, in this case, copying files into anotheri
 directory.   -- Alany   --  O ===============================================================================i0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056mM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 09:58:15 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org5 Subject: Re: Print to file using print/queue command.i3 Message-ID: <m2PuVztZSP3+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <908a2e17.0408232256.176e0831@posting.google.com>, jignesh_vyas@hotmail.com (Jignesh Vyas 'Jigs') writes: > Hi,n > 8 > Is there a way to print the files to a directory using) > print/queue=<queue> <filename> command.t   Not unilaterally.-  6 > Can i create a queue which copies files when issuing! > print/queue=<queue> command ???d   Yes.  exec_symb.  E > Reason to do this to prepare the file in a directory with all print/G > ready files (header, page break..etc.) and then later copy this filesp1 > to another printer which can print these files.v  > In this case, exec_symb won't help, however.  What you need is@ a user modified print symbiont where you replace the main output@ routine (which would ordinarily write to the output device) withA a replacement output routine which writes to a disk file instead.d  ? It sounds like you want a single file per print job rather thanw> a single large concatenated file.  So you'll want to have your@ routine close the file at the end of each job and open it at the start of the next one.   > I can't ask users toH > copy files to common directory instead of print bcos they can only useE > print option and copy option is not available to them..So i have to > > find some other way to collect those files in a common area.  > Now you're changing the rules again.  So it would, in fact, be2 good enough to copy the raw files?  Use exec_symb.  > Which is it?  Do you need the flag pages, etc generated at theH original print queue?  Or would it be good enough to have them generated by the back end print process?   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:00:11 +0300e4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt& Message-ID: <412B1FBB.5699913E@hp.com>   Alan E. Feldman wrote: > Z > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A36B3F.1DF2A03F@SendSpamHere.ORG>... > > In article <4127C0F2.4E00AED5@encompasserve-or-this.org>, Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> writes: & > > >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > >>u > > >> In article <b096a4ee.0408201824.1701176e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:c >  > > >> >On a SmarTerm window.e > # > > >> What the hell is a SmarTerm?y > J > > >A terminal emulator for MS Windows that provides VT series emulation,3 > > >IIRC it does properly emulate the status line.o > * > > Then what the hell is Feldman's issue? > D > > (I don't expect you to answer.  He himself doesn't have a clue.) > # > All right. Stop with the insults.  > 6 > Let's review, shall we? From a recent relevant post: > 
 > I wrote: > G > > >Actually, I'd like to see an option to add the time to the prompt.- >  > You: >   > > With continuous time update? >  > I: > G > No. I want to be able to come back to a SmarTerm session and at leastcH > have a clue as to when things happened. I want the time to be the timeH > that the prompt appeared on the screen. Someone mailed me a utility to! > try but I haven't tried it yet.h >  > You: > I > > FYI, with XPDNT, you can include the last 32 characters in the promptsI > > string.  It can also be used to update the DECterm title bar with themI > > current default (up to about 60 characters of it) or have is write inb > > the 25th "status" line.  >  > I: > F > I don't have anything to run DECwindows on and I don't have any real > need for DECwindows. > E > Then you went on and on about DECwindows and terminals and I simplyrF > responded. I guess I should have skipped my comment about not havingH > or needing DECwindows (which I just put in as an "off-the-cuff" answerH > to your remarks about putting the default in the DECterm window) whichE > apparently is the only part of that post that you read! And I guess G > you thought that I also wanted the default in the prompt and I don't!bA > Hence the confusion. Actually, I did say that I do not want thee > default in my prompt.  >  > One more time: > H > I want DCL to offer an option to add the time to the DCL prompt -- theF > time that the prompt appeared. This is how it works in MS-DOS and onC > Stratus's VOS. That's what I am asking for. I am not asking for a B > clock. I have a clock already. I want to be able to go back to aB > session, either still in the SmarTerm history buffer or copy andF > pasted to a file on the VAX, and have the times in the prompts. ThisH > gives clues as to what happened when. It is not a comprehensive set ofH > time stamps, but it is better than no time stamps. It might be nice toE > also have at least the day as an added option as sometimes the time B > alone is not enough (for example if you come back to a session a. > couple of days later and run more commands). > G > And I DO NOT want the default in my prompt. I have WH*ERE as a symbolvH > for show default so all I need to do to see my default is a very quickH > WH<Return>. I do, however, like having the nodename in the prompt, andC > have already added appropriate commands to my login.com for that.n >  > I hope this clears things up.e > G > I will write to Hunter Goatley and ask for a copy of his program (seeP > his post in this thread).o  B Well its a two-key command to see the time - Even in the throes of9 running an application: try Control-T (no return needed!)d   Mike.  -- hE --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.o? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*rF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----0 Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------g   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:38:14 GMTt" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt0 Message-ID: <00A36D2D.6955CB50@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <b096a4ee.0408231614.66e6ebed@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: >Mr. Shake and Baker wrote:i >  >[...]I >> >I will write to Hunter Goatley and ask for a copy of his program (seer >> >his post in this thread).w >> n, >> ...but you still need a terminal...  doh! >i* >Hmmm. I have a terminal. I even said so.  >m	 >> plonk!e > I >Well goodbye to Mr. Shake and Baker and his inane questions and remarks!p   What a childish twit.    a  H Do you speak for yourself or for everone here?  If for yourself, go fuckH off.  If for the entire newsgroup, I'll gladly step out.  I am sure thatH my contributions to comp.os.vms in terms of VMS will not be missed when,H in its place, there will be your faineant prattle to fill that technical void.h  $ I'll give the group a day to decide. -- p< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.h --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! u -- :K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 07:47:32 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0408240647.7293131a@posting.google.com>>  b Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> wrote in message news:<412B1FBB.5699913E@hp.com>... > Alan E. Feldman wrote: > > \ > > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A36B3F.1DF2A03F@SendSpamHere.ORG>... > > > In article <4127C0F2.4E00AED5@encompasserve-or-this.org>, Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> writes: ( > > > >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > >>w > > > >> In article <b096a4ee.0408201824.1701176e@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  [...]  > > One more time: > > J > > I want DCL to offer an option to add the time to the DCL prompt -- theH > > time that the prompt appeared. This is how it works in MS-DOS and onE > > Stratus's VOS. That's what I am asking for. I am not asking for a.D > > clock. I have a clock already. I want to be able to go back to aD > > session, either still in the SmarTerm history buffer or copy andH > > pasted to a file on the VAX, and have the times in the prompts. ThisJ > > gives clues as to what happened when. It is not a comprehensive set ofJ > > time stamps, but it is better than no time stamps. It might be nice toG > > also have at least the day as an added option as sometimes the time2D > > alone is not enough (for example if you come back to a session a0 > > couple of days later and run more commands). > > I > > And I DO NOT want the default in my prompt. I have WH*ERE as a symbol J > > for show default so all I need to do to see my default is a very quickJ > > WH<Return>. I do, however, like having the nodename in the prompt, andE > > have already added appropriate commands to my login.com for that./ > > ! > > I hope this clears things up.  > > I > > I will write to Hunter Goatley and ask for a copy of his program (see  > > his post in this thread).- > D > Well its a two-key command to see the time - Even in the throes of; > running an application: try Control-T (no return needed!)   D Yes, I know about ^T, but that's not what I am asking for. I want toD be able to go into the (SmarTerm) history buffer and see a timestampE before each DCL prompt. I don't what to have to press ^T every time I F run a command just so that I CAN LATER LOOK AT A LOG OF MY SESSION AND SEE TIMESTAMPS.n  D IOW, I am not asking about finding what the time is when I'm workingE (for that I have numerous alternatives) but I want to be able to lookAE at a log of a session and see what finished when. And I don't want to!F have to press ^T every command just for that (actually that would tell9 me only that someone pressed ^T). That is very different.a  c       > Mike.  > -- gG > ---------------------------------------------------------------------gG > Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.:A > Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*jH > Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  D >   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------:! > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----a > Version: 3.1< > GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$8 > PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@! > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:01:26 +0000 (UTC)nP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Routing under VMS$ Message-ID: <cgf055$h24$1@online.de>  A In article <1040809201629.4244B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santosm <JOHN@egh.com> writes: g  H > Who is serving who?  It seems to me the networking people are supposedD > to be providing a service to the University, and not the other wayC > around.  They are supposed to be making your job easier.  You are<I > not supposed to be making their job easier.  Tell them you require thatr3 > they bridge SCS, LAT, and whatever else you need.   I I agree, of course, but this is not uncommon in university environments. eH Often, network types will have a (relatively) low-paying permanent job, I and some research staff will be on soft money.  The network guys will be pG there forever, so they like to make their job easier, and don't expect  I much opposition from soft-money folks who will be moving on.  I actually 2I once heard a network/sysadmin type say a) his job was NOT to support the sI research staff and b) to a complaint about a problem with a compiler "do eH you guys REALLY have to USE the COMPILER?"---this at an institute where 1 most folks' main job was to write their own code!    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 05:46:50 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>O Subject: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP Worldn; Message-ID: <eDAWc.1106$LH6.17608@twister.southeast.rr.com>l  F SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP WorldA http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/08/24/5313953s     ________________________ Kenneth R. Farmer <><e6 SpyderByte Technical Portals: http://www.Spydebyte.comG http://www.OpenVMS.org | http://www.Tru64.org | http://www.LinuxHPC.org"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 06:00:12 -0400i* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>S Subject: Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP Worldn2 Message-ID: <vsadnR91lfX8jLbcRVn-iw@metrocast.net>  A "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote in messageh5 news:eDAWc.1106$LH6.17608@twister.southeast.rr.com...hH > SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP WorldC > http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=04/08/24/5313953e  F Gee:  even though Terry claims not to be accepting HP's shilling, he's# clearly still their favorite shill.C  D In 'Beyond Superdome", he first waxes poetic about current SuperdomeK capabilities, such as their internal interconnect fabric.  Let's see:  thismH is the server architecture (at least somewhat reminiscent of the old andH rather mediocre GS320 server architecture) that using 64 top-of-the-lineH Itanics barely manages to stay ahead of the new POWER5 box that requiresL only 16 processors (on a grand total of 8 chips, since they're dual-core) in
 TPC-C, right?   C Then he crows, "HP delivers dual core before Intel" as some kind of D significant achievement.  Well, maybe.  Of course, Sun is deliveringF dual-core SPARC processors today, and IBM started delivering dual-coreJ POWER4s nearly three years ago.  So what beating Intel to the punch mostlyF proves is just how far behind the curve Itanic really is, I'd suggest.  J Then he starts talking about "How Superdome will maintain leadership", butL in fact that will be impossible - because it's not in the lead right now, soJ there's no way it can 'maintain' any lead.  And in fact, it will only fallI farther behind during the time-frame during which any reasonably informede projections can be made.  J Terry's first projected performance graph for OLTP explains why.  DoublingJ current system performance by about a year from now actually sounds prettyH impressive, until you recognize that Superdome's TPC-C performance todayK with 64 processors falls slightly behind today's previous-design-generationhE POWER4+ systems that use only half that number of processors and onlyeI slightly manages to beat today's POWER5 boxes that use only 1/4th as manyaG processors.  POWER5 will shortly be available with up to 64 processors,oL which means that it should beat today's Superdome performance by a factor ofJ at least 3 within a few months.  When Montecito comes along late next yearA it will indeed close much of this gap with POWER5 (Terry's secondpE TPC-C-specific performance graph suggests it should slightly exceed 2eI million tpmC), but POWER5 (a full process generation behind Montecito butcJ still heading for about 3 million tpmC late *this* year) will no longer beI IBM's top-of-the-line product by then, since POWER5+ (in the same processuD generation as Montecito) should then be shipping and upping the ante significantly.  ? No, once the full-sized POWER5 boxes appear there's no way thatTL top-of-the-line Superdome OLTP performance should be able to reach more thanL about 50% of top-of-the-line POWER performance any time soon.  Maybe TukwilaH will help close that gap when it arrives in 2007.  Or maybe not, becauseK POWER6 is due around then.  And Fujitsu has regular enhancements to SPARC64 L coming along to keep pace with Itanic (though not POWER), regardless of what< one may think of Sun's future efforts for that architecture.  B But perhaps the more important observation is that all the glowingG descriptions Terry makes about Superdome are not only features that IBMoH perfected many years ago but are things that make pricing anything *but*A commodity-level.  So Superdome won't be offering industry-leadingcG performance *or* industry-leading price/performance, because the x86-64 > brigade will be attacking it from beneath on the second front.  E 'Son of Superdome' will be "Superdome-centric with Alpha attributes"? L That's, like, deja vu all over again:  exactly the kind of thing that peopleH like Terry and Kerry and Rob were telling us the week of June 25, 2001 -J except that the time-frame being discussed back then for the appearance of0 the "Alpha/IA64 hybrid" was about now, not 2007.  G Well, given that 'about now' is upon us and I don't see any "Alpha/IA64 G hybrids" being benchmarked, 2007 seems at least a lot more credible.  IaL guess my prediction of 2006 three years ago was slightly optimistic, but for; a 5-year-out guesstimate I don't feel *that* ashamed of it."  H Terry may have been able to make the Superdome story sound superficiallyK attractive, but it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny when the *rest* of theWI industry is taken into account.  And it's also worth considering just howtL Terry's fawning descriptions of more long-term architecture development gibeJ with the recent reports of a grinning Shane Robison wielding an axe to R&D# like Jack Nicholson in The Shining.e  J Moving right along, we come to "Why IPF and Why HP: Because SPARC is dead,D Power5 isn't ready for prime time and Extentions won't cut it in the datacenter."  L SPARC is dead, eh?  Or 'no longer relevant', as a later slide says.  SomeoneK better tell Fujitsu so it will stop stomping all over the latest Itanics inaL commercial benchmarks like jbb2000:  that's really not suitable behavior forJ a 'dead' processor.  And by all means make sure those HP customers who areL defecting to Sun know this:  what on earth do you suppose they're thinking?!  L As for POWER5 not being ready for prime time, I guess we can say good-bye toI IBM:  if they've released an unready product to their customer base, said.K base won't be with them for long.  Or could one possibly suppose that TerrynD is simply blowing yet more thick, black smoke out of his ass for HP?  L Intel waited until 1986 to 'begin executing a plan to achieve microprocessorI dominance'?  Don't let the iAPX-432 people hear you say that!  Oh, wait - A that failed and disappeared after a few years of futile effort...e  I And Terry's still shouting as loudly as he can (what size font was that?)gK that Compaq made the *right* decision to kill Alpha.  Well, despite what hecJ claims, three-plus years later history really doesn't seem at all inclinedI to support that thesis, but when you're talking about what history *will*vJ prove you always have a built-in response to such observations:  just wait some more...  K Terry's purported 'analyses' of the relative potential of EPIC vs. RISC, of L relative performance predictions for Itanic vs. Alpha, and of the commercialJ viability of Alpha remain as chock-full of shit as ever.  They are no moreL convincing when looking back from today's vantage point than they were threeJ years ago, and I'm not going to bother to debunk them in detail yet again:I POWER5 has already done a more than adequate job of doing that out in thefH real world, and EV8 (which of course would be shipping today, had it notK been canceled) would have done an even better one.  As for the idea that atiI least Itanic would provide a compatible hardware platform on which to runeJ both IA64 *and* IA32 code, well...  turns out the hardware supporting IA32A wasn't quite up to the job, so they're replacing it with softwaremI emulation - you know, like Alpha used?  But that emulation, though faster I than the previous disaster on Itanic, still can't hold a candle to native I IA32 processors that can run *both* 32-bit and 64-bit code at full speed.   K And what's with the slide that shows 64-bit Itanic code out-performing IA32tI by a factor of about 2:1 right about now?  Last time I checked, they were.I pretty much dead-even in many benchmarks, and where that was not true the K leads were split about evenly.  Couldn't be just a *bit* of misdirection ina such a slide, could there?  E Note how carefully Terry refers to x86-64 as 'extensions' to a 32-bit J architecture, rather than as an actual 64-bit architecture.  Kind of makesC you wonder why he doesn't refer to IA32 as 'extensions' to a 16-bituF architecture, doesn't it?  After all, that's exactly the same concept.  H If you don't believe that IA32 qualifies as a 'real' 32-bit architectureB (despite rather a lot of commercial and scientific evidence to theL contrary), I guess you could swallow the suggestion that x86-64 isn't reallyI a 64-bit architecture, even though it shows every promise of competing oniI equal (and ofter better) footing with the 'real' 64-bit architectures out G there.  Ah, Terry.  And if you think that Itanic offers any performanceu? advantage over x86-64, you haven't looked at benchmarks lately..  F As for talking about the decline in quality of the trade press, Terry,@ that's pretty hard to stomach coming from such a trasnsparent HPH sock-puppet.  But the bolder the lie, the more you seem attracted to it.  L But inundating readers with dozens of pages of impressive-sounding buzzwordsD that he himself apparently understands only in the vaguest terms mayG actually be effective in convincing some portion of the population.  ItlL really does seem that HP ought to be paying him *something* for this effort,D plus perhaps a significant tip for the total abandonment of personal integrity that it requires.-   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:34:47 -0400:- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP World World , Message-ID: <412B7C35.A4A982D7@teksavvy.com>   Bill Todd wrote:H > Gee:  even though Terry claims not to be accepting HP's shilling, he's% > clearly still their favorite shill.   M Yes, and it was no surprise to see a pro-HP slant to his presentation. I findtL it odd that he felt it necessary to have as a first slide, a huge disclaimer) about who he works and doesn't work for.    M In fairness, if this was made at an HP event, then you can't really expect toi$ have totally unbiased presentations.  M The presentation did have interesting information about history of chips, and>3 until he got to Alpha, the bias wasn't so apparent.   I Where Shannon didn't delve into is why a superdome couldn't be built withtK opterons or intel 64 bit 8086s. What exactly is missing from those chips to H make such machine possible and whether Intel/AMD plan to add whatever is: missing to allow the building of mainframe class machines.  K It seems to be that IA64's only edge right now is that 8086s aren't used toeI build Superdome class machines. If/when the 8086s get whatever feature isiN missing, then IA64 will have lost its last raison d'tre and could be replaced by the 8086.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:01:17 GMTr! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>o< Subject: Re: TCPIP: FTP of directory names starting with dot8 Message-ID: <lmsli0hhik36jqbr2knn09p9d82c7jijqd@4ax.com>  K On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:32:19 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s wrote:  O >Someone on windows tried to backup a directory structure with FTP to a VAX-VMS  >7.2 with TCPIP 5,.3 ECO2. > M >The transfers failed. Cause: first file it tried to transfer was a directoryeA >whose name began with a . (.XV_TEMP or something to that order).h >aO >Is this something which would have worked on an ODS-5 volume on Alpha  ? Or isf >this also "broken" on Alpha ?  O A quick test on a couple of systems (TCPIP 5.4 ECO2 & T5.5) here shows that thee5 directory is copied over OK but the contents are not.v  F >Are there woraround or suggestions on how to handle such requests for >transfers ?  F Use Pathworks, Advanced Server, SAMBA or my personal favourite WebDAV.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:26:00 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGG Subject: Re: Unknown OPCOM message: "clm privilege violation" More infod0 Message-ID: <00A36D2B.B3B6FB10@SendSpamHere.ORG>  v In article <230820041402318683%kent.at.bci.com@nospam.invalid>, Kent Behrends <kent.at.bci.com@nospam.invalid> writes:F >In article <00A36554.3A3A9171@SendSpamHere.ORG>, < @SendSpamHere.ORG> >wrote:m >hP >> In article <130820041914341457%kent.at.bci.com@nospam.invalid>, Kent Behrends+ >> <kent.at.bci.com@nospam.invalid> writes:l= >> >I am getting the following opcom messages on all 5 of my t$ >> >OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 cluster nodes: >> >K >> >%%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   9-AUG-2004 10:55:08.26  %%%%%%%%%%%  DUMP_LOG_FILE  >> >J >> >OPCOM has noticed a condition which might be due to an internal error.N >> >It might also be explained by normal events, especially if nodes have justP >> >crashed or rebooted in a VAXcluster.  Please bring this message to Digital'sK >> >attention only if you are having problems with operator communications.  >> >? >> >Buffer is   219 (%X00DB) bytes -- "clm privilege violation"tL >> > 6174733C 20202020 20204D45 54535953 00010004 FFFFFFFF 5FFFFFFF 00000008* >> > ......._........SYSTEM      <sta 0000P >> > 00000001 0094000A 4D40000A 47200001 000D0000 00B50902 0413130C 203E7472 rt>& >> > ............. G..@M........ 0020L >> > 00080000 00010000 00000000 00000000 0407000A 47C00001 000D0000 00000000* >> > ..........G.................... 0040L >> > 4D455453 59532020 20202020 4D455453 59530001 0004FFFF FFFFFFFF FFFF0000* >> > ..............SYSTEM      SYSTEM 0060N >> > 00000001 00040000 00010000 000000FF F9FF0000 00020000 0000010A 00042020  ( >> > ............................. 0080L >> > 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 000D0000 00010006 00060000 00000000* >> > ................................ 00A0L >> > 00000000 003A3041 504F2431 30565245 535F6961 67612067 6E690000 00000000* >> > ......ing agai_SERV01$OPA0:..... 00C0 >> > >> > >> >Anyone have any ideas? >> > >> >-- o >> >---o >> >Kent Behrendss! >> >BEHR Consulting Internationalu >> >http://www.bci.com >>   >> d >> Is RDB on this system?i >h >Yes >t >--  >--- >Kent Behrends >BEHR Consulting International >http://www.bci.como    H Then it's very likely a message from the Rdb Continuous Log Miner (clm).    C google found me this link if you want some further info on Rdm CLM:.  J http://www.oracle.com/technology/ products/rdb/pdf/contin_logminer_an.pdf  --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.a -- c, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! o -- tK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:29:59 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)$ Subject: Re: VAX Instruction Timings2 Message-ID: <rpHWc.8630$v22.6911@news.cpqcorp.net>  A Many years ago I wrote a suite of programs that could be run thatk@ would print out the execution speed of various VAX instructions.C A number of people ran them on various machines.  The data is stilluA available on the ENCOMPASserve system (encompasserve.org, no real E connection to Encompass anymore, you can telnet to it and create youryC own account or read some of the notes conferences via the web), and C the program suite is on some of the older VAX SIG tape collections.r  @ The programs even run on the Charon VAX emulator.  (Or at least,C most of them do.  I understand they helped track down some problemst? with an early version of the emulator.  I think that's all beene fixed by now.)   -- t(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.t   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 02:10:54 -0700! From: a_purdie@yahoo.com (andrew) G Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UKa= Message-ID: <959db944.0408240110.417d0e41@posting.google.com>    Hi,-  F the Vax4000-60's are pretty inexpensive and pretty numerous the figureB you mentioned would cover a standard system with a bit of memory &E standard graphics. The 90's are around  800 and the 96's are roughlyoF  2k+ ish from traders as they are still used commercially. There wereE some funky graphics cards options, dual headers etc which can ramp up  the price substantially.            | Tom Garcia <tgarcia@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.08.23.10.13.48.553240@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org>... > Hello, > C > I'm a relatively new VMS hobbyist (my experience being via remotegI > shells) looking for a VAXstation on which to fully learn and understandeK > the VMS platform on its original hardware. My interest as a student is inf0 > studying the design and engineering of the OS. > L > With that in mind I'm hunting for a couple of things. What I've found out: > F > 1) Comprehensive VMS internals references. Most suitable seem to be: > K > OpenVMS Alpha Internals and Data Structures : Memory Management, GoldbergeC > OpenVMS Alpha Internals: Scheduling and Process Control, GoldbergaG > (both superseding Vax/Vms Internals and Data Structures Version 5.2 )oL > Open VMS: Operating System Concepts, Miller (more introductory overview of > material in first two?)p > H > 2) A VAXstation *grin*. My initial thought was simh on Linux on my AMDK > 2600XP, but I know I'd like to try out solid hardware (as well as save oneK > power!). I realise most systems are bootable with the latest VMS, but I'da@ > like a system that I can productively *use* as I learn, so wasK > hunting for the 4000/60 and /9X models. The systems seem much less commoneG > in UK than US, with a passing quote given to me of 200 (~$360) for aAH > /60 - is this reasonable? eBay hints otherwise, but units seem scarce. > L > More general info, in case anyone else is embarking on the same adventure: > H > Most important issue is ensuring sufficient memory since non-standard.K > Graphics board supplied may vary. Booting should be possible via any SCSIlG > CD-ROM with 512 byte block support. Also required at minimum: consoleCG > cable (DEC MMJ to standard serial 9-pin), and probably AUI-to-10baseT>D > transceiver to connect to modern Ethernet. If want to use locally,L > keyboard has MMJ connector and mouse/video not the regular PC type, but itL > seems success with regular monitor is possible (I have a GDM-1394 with RGB > BNC connectors, *hopes*):i2 >  http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html; > (for 3100 series, page also gives info on good CD drives)v >  > User manuals:rB >  http://vt100.net/manx/search?cp=1;q=vaxstation+4000;num=20;on=0 >  > Speed comparison:t4 >  http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/vax-perf.html > 	 > Thanks,r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:35:40 GMTm# From: "Phil" <dooleys@snowy.net.au>&2 Subject: Re: WORD documents and corporate security9 Message-ID: <wCGWc.5784$D7.83@news-server.bigpond.net.au>o  2 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFC76@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...  A JF - that's likely why PDF files are gaining much more widespreadi3 acceptance i.e. smaller sizes and no "hidden" text.y  D By the way, what is always interesting is even with text cleaned up,; what many forget to clean up is hidden in the Word document=
 "Properties".=  , Open any WORD file, then do File-Properties.   The info may surprise you.   But there's more!e8 If the "track changes" option has been used, you can use3 "View Source" when viewing a word document in IE tok9 see all changes - content/date/time/author/email address.=  : Sometimes a "select all", "copy", and "paste" into notepad) reveals more than is shown on a web page.   3 Even pdf files are not immune, a standard method ofi4 censorship was to include a black "overlay" into pdf2 files to prevent certain sections from being read.7 Unfortunately the overlay could be removed by software.h Phil   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.469 ************************