1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 25 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 470       Contents:> Re: 450  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, <domain.name> Best TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS?" Re: Best TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS?" Re: Best TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS?" Re: Best TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS? Re: charon vax emulator???	 Re: cobol / CSWS v2.0 & CSWS_PHP v1.2 - "php4_module" error 3 Re: CSWS v2.0 & CSWS_PHP v1.2 - "php4_module" error ? Re: Does SHE know about VMS??  not according to this article :( D Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users RE: Files-11 Structure, Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux, Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux, Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux Re: HPworld - I Survived RE: HPworld - I Survived RE: HPworld - I Survived RE: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived  IBM vs. HP - a study in contrast$ Re: IBM vs. HP - a study in contrast Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....  Re: IMAP for TCPIP 5.3 eco2 # Re: Looking for VMS experts opinion # Re: Looking for VMS experts opinion # Re: Looking for VMS experts opinion " New mail announcements / Broadcast& Re: New mail announcements / Broadcast- Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security - Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security  Re: Re, Re : set prompt D Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HPK Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP  World K Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP  World P Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP  World HP  P Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP World HP Wo> Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK5 Re: What is/was ODS-6 ? (Referenced in recent HM2DEF) : Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?. [OT]: Stratus standardizes on Xeon, not Itanic  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 16:08:43 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)G Subject: Re: 450  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, <domain.name> 3 Message-ID: <UbxncScmId1F@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4122810A.99D24114@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > sms@antinode.org wrote: * >> ---- Transcript of session follows ---- >>  ; >> 450  %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, domain.name  >>  # >> ---- Unsent message follows ----  > O > This is a very misleading message. What it really means is that it didn't get O > a 200 message after a RCPT TO command. But unfortunatly, it doesn not provide F > you with the error message as reported by the receiving SMTP server. > Q > You need to enable logging and check the smtp logs for each individual message.  > N > An example of this message erroneously issued: if the receiving system thingJ > you are a spammer and sends a message explaining why it is bouncing yourM > email, you will be told by VMS that the destination username doesn't exist.   E This is what happens when I try to send mail to EISNER from behind my I corporate firewall. Internal names don't reverse DNS translate, so EISNER  rejects the mail as SPAM.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:28:44 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>' Subject: Best TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS? ; Message-ID: <wNLWc.1154$LH6.48246@twister.southeast.rr.com>   7 Got this email this afternoon.  Anyone care to comment?   % =====================================   L I am new to OpenVMS and currently undertaking a job of System Administrator.  F I would like to know what is the best TCP/IP stack package for OpenVMSJ version 7.3.  I recently attended HP's OpenVMS system admin class in whichH they highly recommend HP's TCP/IP stack.  Whereas we are currently using* Process Software's Multinet (version 4.4).  K I would like to know the details of these two packages and at the same time E would appreciate knowledge of migrating from one of these packages to . other - in terms of ease and minimal downtime.  % =====================================   ) Thanks for the help to whomever responds.    Ken  ________________________" Kenneth R. Farmer <>< 336-736-7376$ SpyderByte: http://www.SpydeByte.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:40:09 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)+ Subject: Re: Best TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS? . Message-ID: <cgg5io$buj$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  M >I am new to OpenVMS and currently undertaking a job of System Administrator.  > G >I would like to know what is the best TCP/IP stack package for OpenVMS K >version 7.3.  I recently attended HP's OpenVMS system admin class in which I >they highly recommend HP's TCP/IP stack.  Whereas we are currently using + >Process Software's Multinet (version 4.4).   H Multinet has had a rep as "the best" for many years.  HP's stack is moreG popular because it's free (with VMS), and it is probably improving at a J faster rate than Multinet.  From my limited use of Multinet, it's at leastC as easy to set up, and Multinet's IMAP server is faster and better.   L >I would like to know the details of these two packages and at the same timeF >would appreciate knowledge of migrating from one of these packages to/ >other - in terms of ease and minimal downtime.   L The difficulty of migrating will depend on how many site-specific things youL have set up.  NFS shares and SMTP configuration will have to be re-done.  IfJ you have in-house tcp software check that it still works before you commit to the change...  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 16:09:02 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)+ Subject: Re: Best TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408241509.723b5421@posting.google.com>   y "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote in message news:<wNLWc.1154$LH6.48246@twister.southeast.rr.com>... 9 > Got this email this afternoon.  Anyone care to comment?  > ' > =====================================  > N > I am new to OpenVMS and currently undertaking a job of System Administrator. > H > I would like to know what is the best TCP/IP stack package for OpenVMSL > version 7.3.  I recently attended HP's OpenVMS system admin class in whichJ > they highly recommend HP's TCP/IP stack.  Whereas we are currently using, > Process Software's Multinet (version 4.4). > M > I would like to know the details of these two packages and at the same time G > would appreciate knowledge of migrating from one of these packages to 0 > other - in terms of ease and minimal downtime. > ' > =====================================  > + > Thanks for the help to whomever responds.  >  > Ken  > ________________________$ > Kenneth R. Farmer <>< 336-736-7376& > SpyderByte: http://www.SpydeByte.com  ? TCPware from Process is the best hands down ... we have had our ? webserver running in it for over 5 years now and have NEVER had < a problem.  TCPware interface is also more VMS like than the@ others, which are more unix like (convuluted).  The biggest gain; is in speed.  The TCPware kernel is the only IP stack which @ uses the VMS kernel, and with head to head competition with both> multinet and ucx, TCPware was the clear winner on web testing.< Also, TCPware is the only stack that can run Decnet Phase IV? over IP.  All the other things multinet has (ssh2) TCPware has.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 20:04:46 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Best TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS? 3 Message-ID: <R8LQanPw0w59@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <wNLWc.1154$LH6.48246@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> writes:9 > Got this email this afternoon.  Anyone care to comment?  > ' > =====================================  > N > I am new to OpenVMS and currently undertaking a job of System Administrator. > H > I would like to know what is the best TCP/IP stack package for OpenVMSL > version 7.3.  I recently attended HP's OpenVMS system admin class in whichJ > they highly recommend HP's TCP/IP stack.  Whereas we are currently using, > Process Software's Multinet (version 4.4).  G    If you want current technology in the same timeframe that your UNIX, 7    Windows, ... get it, you will not want HP's product.   G    If you want low cost, you can often get HP's product with the system     in a software bundle.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 19:44:25 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <rv55UzU$HaI6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <412a3c10$0$1903$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> writes:  > K > Seriously, a stand-alone Windows machine is not subject to virus attacks  @ >   or TCPIP's descriptorless programming. That's enough for me.  E    Sneakernet will get you.  Meanwhile, I admit I haven't seen a BSOD F    for days.  But then, I've been home all week taking care of a wound    I asked my doctor to make.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:51:42 -0500 0 From: Kevin Monceaux <OwnedByDogs@grandecom.net> Subject: Re: cobol2 Message-ID: <20040824215142.GA10337@grandecom.net>  > On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 01:01:25PM +0200, Michael Unger wrote:  E > No, it isn't. For VAX, there are: BASIC, FORTRAN, C and Pascal; for / > Alpha just FORTRAN and C. (Hobbyist Kit V3.0)  > 	 > Michael   J I hope someone is planning on rectifying that oversite.  I'm glad I got myK Hobbyist kit back when I did, since I'm a COBOL fan.  The VAX kit I got did E come with COBOL.  One would think that all layered products for which H hobbyist licenses are available would be made available to hobbyists.  II realize that all the layered products won't fit on one CD but it would be I simple enough to put them on multiple CDs and let hobbyists order the CDs D containing the products they want.  Or, better yet, FTP servers workF wonders.  I've been lucky and managed to acquire some VAX VMS SoftwareE Product Libraries via eBay so have been able to tinker with many more K layered products than the ones included on the hobbyist kit.  Just recently I I've discovered ACMS and have been having lots of fun.  But, everything I K have is for VAX.  I'm hoping to add an Alpha to my collection some day so I L can try out Alpha VMS.  Looks like I'm going to have to start all over againH searching for Software Libraries.  It's hard to believe that COBOL is no longer included.  K P.S.  Hopefully I got it right this time.  The first time I replied to this G message I think I did so privately instad of to the list as I intended. , Sorry if this ends up being a double post.       Kevin  http://www.RawFedDogs.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:32:27 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>8 Subject: CSWS v2.0 & CSWS_PHP v1.2 - "php4_module" error9 Message-ID: <Y5RWc.26317$_h.14810@bignews3.bellsouth.net>   J I have OpenVMS Alpha v7.3-1 with all of the current patches applied to it C for use with JDK v1.4.2, CSWS v2.0, CSWS_PHP v1.2 & CSWS_JAVA v2.1.   ) When I try to shutdown Apache as follows:    @SYS$STARTUP:APACHE$SHUTDOWN   I get the following error:  9 Syntax error on line 5 of /apache$root/conf/mod_php.conf: 8 Can't locate API module structure `php4_module' in file L /apache$root/000000/modules/mod_php_apache-2_0.exe: function not implemented  L Apache is still running after this happens.  I'm not sure if the problem is ' happening during the startup of Apache.   K A Google search of Usenet seems to indicate that this problem is caused by  L having CSWS_PHP v1.1 installed with CSWS v2.0, but that's not the case with K my system.  CSWS_PHP v1.1 has never installed on this system since OpenVMS   was installed on it.  $ Any ideas what might be going wrong?     TIA,   Chuck  --   Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:08:38 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>< Subject: Re: CSWS v2.0 & CSWS_PHP v1.2 - "php4_module" error9 Message-ID: <UDRWc.26511$_h.24957@bignews3.bellsouth.net>    Additional information:   ? The configuration file MOD_PHP.CONF has the following contents:    ## ##  Load PHP module  ## <IfModule prefork.c>5 LoadModule php4_module modules/mod_php_apache-2_0.exe  </IfModule>  <IfModule !prefork.c> 5 LoadModule php4_module modules/mod_php_apache-1_3.exe  </IfModule>   + AddType application/x-httpd-php .php .phtml , AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps  ' Alias /php/ "/apache$root/php/scripts/"   " #PHP_FLAG       engine          ON8 #PHP_VALUE      error_log       /php_root/logs/error_log    J I analyzed the image APACHE$COMMON:[MODULES]MOD_PHP_APACHE-2_0.EXE and it M does export the global symbol "PHP4_MODULE".  This leaves me very puzzled as  ! to why the symbol can't be found.      --   Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp (at) rtfmcsi (dot) com http://www.rtfmcsi.com  @ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax Greer, SC  29651  , Do not send me unsolicited commercial email.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:08:46 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> H Subject: Re: Does SHE know about VMS??  not according to this article :(0 Message-ID: <cfvkd2$125$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Hank Vander Waal wrote:   N > http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/story/0,10801,95312,00. > html?nas=AM-95312  >  >  > D Q Would you consider open-sourcing HP-UX in the way that Sun is now ! promising to open-source Solaris?   I A That's not a choice or priority that we have, and the basic reason why  G is we have a tremendously high customer satisfaction with HP-UX that's  E running in very mission-critical areas. We've got great services and  I support capabilities around it. When we look at the applications and the  C nature of it, we don't believe that there is a compelling business   reason for HP to do that.   = And the real reason if Ann but knew is that HP cannot because B they don't own enough of the IP to make it a relevant donation and' what they don't own they cannot donate.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 13:36:39 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)M Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users 3 Message-ID: <f+2lh$4Lxl56@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <q0bbi0dab5jt1imu895kk7g8hage1807m7@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:Q > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 04:08:19 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  > > >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/18/hpworld_users_react/ >>M >>"a whopping 50 percent of [HP-UX] customers have no plans to move to Itanic N >>at all.  This leaves half of HP's high-end [HP-UX] customer base looking forL >>a new home either on Linux systems, which HP does sell, or - more likely -) >>on IBM and Sun Microsystems' Unix kit."  > Q > Turn the clock back ten years. What the percentage of VAX customers then had no R > plans to move to Alpha? They weren't looking for a new home they were happy withQ > VAX or at least there was no compelling reason to migrate. The same is true for  > many PA-RISC customers today.   K When Alpha was announced, VAX wasn't an end-of-life product with no future. J VAX continued to be enhanced for 5 years, and made for a total of 9 years.J When DEC finally announced e-o-l for the VAXen, most customers had alreadyL migrated to the Alpha, not because they had to, but because it made sense to0 do so. No one forced anyone to migrate to Alpha.  D With the Itanic announcement, the end-of-life announcement for AlphaI preceded by several years the first ready for mission critical production I IA64 product. In fact we are still waiting, and all we have today is beta F test Itanic. Despite a June 2001 roadmap that said everything would beH shipping in 3 years. And 5 different dead-end HP enviroments as the only0 current products that you can buy and run today.  6 And HP wonders why their server business is in trouble  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 14:03:40 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: RE: Files-11 Structure 3 Message-ID: <rr7wPqB8twcH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE8605AED1A5@lespaul.process.com>, Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com> writes: < > $ SHOW DEVICE/FULL should indeed show that characteristic.: > In the "volume status" section at the bottom, you shouldD > see "ODS-2", which indicates "Files-11 On-Disk Structure level 2."  @ It only does so on versions of VMS new enough for there to be an# alternative. i.e. 7.2-x and higher.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:18:59 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux 0 Message-ID: <87wtzoo0vg.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  + sebbylind@yahoo.com.au (Sebby Lind) writes:   B > I need to provide some support for a old but critical VMS system > (7.1)   / > How can I monitor this from Windows or Linux?   E Yes, but if it is indead critical, don't let windoze within a mile of  it!   B > I prefer using free tools/scripts (or not so expensive software)F > since we can't spend much more money on these systems since they are. > soon (within a year or so) to be turned off.  E Run a decterm sesion on you linux box, also run AMDS with the display B set to the linux box. You should do this from an isolated network, as unix X has f-all security...   ? You can also use WASD to provide some monitoring via web pages.   E Note that I do the oposite, use my Alpha as the display for the linux  system at home.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 20:03:09 -0700) From: sebbylind@yahoo.com.au (Sebby Lind) 5 Subject: Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux = Message-ID: <8b171295.0408241903.759c7742@posting.google.com>   f Roland Barmettler <itsme@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<20040824142854.0abaf2e2.itsme@127.0.0.1>.... > Phil wrote on Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:11:03 GMT: > > G > > If you have nagios running on linux, vms monitoring can be "made to 	 > > work"  > C > I entirely agree. I'm using Nagios on Linux and self-written perl H > scripts (which in turn use SNMP tools) to monitor all our VMS systems.D > It's quite easy to setup, only SNMP needs to be running on the VMS > machines.  >  > Cheers, Roland    E I've been using Nagios on other systems and will as adviced use it to F monitor VMS too. I just wasn't sure how common it was to use Nagios on VMS.   Thank you all for your input.   A Phil: If you don't mind maybe you can mail me copies of your perl  scripts?   Regards, Sebby  Sydney, Australia    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 03:19:13 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>5 Subject: Re: How can I monitor VMS from Windows/Linux ; Message-ID: <RyTWc.1224$LH6.95465@twister.southeast.rr.com>   E Can you share those scripts for posting on OpenVMS.org?  Maybe a URL?    Ken    ________________________ Kenneth R. Farmer <>< # OpenVMS.org: http://www.openvms.org       6 "Roland Barmettler" <itsme@127.0.0.1> wrote in message/ news:20040824142854.0abaf2e2.itsme@127.0.0.1... . > Phil wrote on Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:11:03 GMT: > > G > > If you have nagios running on linux, vms monitoring can be "made to 	 > > work"  > C > I entirely agree. I'm using Nagios on Linux and self-written perl H > scripts (which in turn use SNMP tools) to monitor all our VMS systems.D > It's quite easy to setup, only SNMP needs to be running on the VMS > machines.  >  > Cheers, Roland >  > -- > 3rd Law of Computing: ! >         Anything that can go wr " > Segmentation fault (core dumped)   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 13:58:37 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived 3 Message-ID: <xM60AsgwkKwq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <412a37c3@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com> writes: M > Mostly ditto. I did have bad luck selecting some sessions. Like one labeled M > 'Windows 2003 under the hood' where the go proceeded to explain for half an K > hour on windows update mechanism. Jeez, the audience was expecting a talk J > about an car engine and get get blah blah over a road to nowhere. Not on	 > target.   I A LOT of the sessions were impossible to tell what they were really about E from the one line title in the symposium packet. I went to one titled F "Preparing for a disaster Tips and Techniques" and the first thing theH presenter said was "this is for 3000 users, but some of it will apply to+ 9000 customers". Half the crowd walked out.   H The session list was rather thin. I rarely had to pick between 2 or moreC interesting sessions, it was more of a struggle to find someting of J interest. And then they blow what could have been 2 more sessions with theL "daily keynote snore" and the "manditory trade show" hours. I'm paying for aL technical conference, not to be held captive by marketeers. And the hands-onD sessions were not nice multiples of the regular sessions. One 2 hourB workshop wiped out 2 sessions, but one good session also blocked 2
 workshops.  G The list also failed to identify the PRESENTER, something I consider at L least as important as the title. I'd go to a session with Richie Lary, WayneK Sauer, John Loethar, Terry Shannon, Hoff, etc regardless of the topic. I've G been to other sessions by folks who are very knowledgable, but couldn't J present their way out of a paper bag. I don't need to see a warm body read us his powerpoint slides.   K Speaking of which, there were people and sessions missing. No question that I #1 on that list was John Wisniewski. He was definitely missed by all. MIA H were AndyG, Hoff, VAXman, DaveC and many others I've met over the years.I It's just not a symposium without a Magic session late one evening. But I L did get to meet a bunch of folks I hadn't seen for a long time, or had knownJ only online and finally got to meet face to face. Including a couple folksI I'd worked with over a decade ago at DEC and hadn't seen since we all got  "downsized".  ; >> HP's technology forum in New Orleans, Sept. 11-15, 2005.  > N > My current expectation, as a peon in the sidelines, is that this will be theK > focal point of the extarnal VMS activities for 2005, and NOT HPworld 2005  > San Francisco.  G This was stated by several folks last week, both from HP and Encompass.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:44:08 -0500 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> ! Subject: RE: HPworld - I Survived T Message-ID: <DA4AD590CAF06845B671C398333A89C60415848A@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  J Encompass will have a major role in selecting the content for the sessionsL at the technology forum.  Be on the lookout for the call for papers, and theF recruitment of volunteers to be on the content selection team.  At theD Encompass meeting we were told that the forum will be ten times more% technical than the most recent event.    EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**       > -----Original Message-----* > From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD - > [mailto:kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD]  ( > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:59 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # > Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived  > 4 > In article <412a37c3@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Hein" % > <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com> writes: H > > Mostly ditto. I did have bad luck selecting some sessions. Like one D > > labeled 'Windows 2003 under the hood' where the go proceeded to D > > explain for half an hour on windows update mechanism. Jeez, the G > > audience was expecting a talk about an car engine and get get blah  / > > blah over a road to nowhere. Not on target.  > ? > A LOT of the sessions were impossible to tell what they were  @ > really about from the one line title in the symposium packet. : > I went to one titled "Preparing for a disaster Tips and ? > Techniques" and the first thing the presenter said was "this  7 > is for 3000 users, but some of it will apply to 9000  ( > customers". Half the crowd walked out. > 9 > The session list was rather thin. I rarely had to pick  ; > between 2 or more interesting sessions, it was more of a  < > struggle to find someting of interest. And then they blow ? > what could have been 2 more sessions with the "daily keynote  @ > snore" and the "manditory trade show" hours. I'm paying for a > > technical conference, not to be held captive by marketeers. ; > And the hands-on sessions were not nice multiples of the  > > regular sessions. One 2 hour workshop wiped out 2 sessions, 0 > but one good session also blocked 2 workshops. > > > The list also failed to identify the PRESENTER, something I ; > consider at least as important as the title. I'd go to a  = > session with Richie Lary, Wayne Sauer, John Loethar, Terry  ; > Shannon, Hoff, etc regardless of the topic. I've been to  9 > other sessions by folks who are very knowledgable, but  > > couldn't present their way out of a paper bag. I don't need 3 > to see a warm body read us his powerpoint slides.  > @ > Speaking of which, there were people and sessions missing. No  > question that @ > #1 on that list was John Wisniewski. He was definitely missed > > by all. MIA were AndyG, Hoff, VAXman, DaveC and many others  > I've met over the years.= > It's just not a symposium without a Magic session late one  @ > evening. But I did get to meet a bunch of folks I hadn't seen ? > for a long time, or had known only online and finally got to  > > meet face to face. Including a couple folks I'd worked with H > over a decade ago at DEC and hadn't seen since we all got "downsized". > = > >> HP's technology forum in New Orleans, Sept. 11-15, 2005.  > > @ > > My current expectation, as a peon in the sidelines, is that  > this will H > > be the focal point of the extarnal VMS activities for 2005, and NOT  > > HPworld 2005 San Francisco.  > ? > This was stated by several folks last week, both from HP and   > Encompass. > 3 > 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" ( > 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< > Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	 6 > http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf@ >     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org  >    www.nar.org > ' >  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!    , > http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html >    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 16:05:08 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)! Subject: RE: HPworld - I Survived 3 Message-ID: <C1Lp2WcRnJNc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFC18@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:F > I suspect that you may have heard about the following somewhat dated > promotion:L > http://h30046.www3.hp.com/promofile_oov.php?promo=3D1-27LB&portal=3DPRODU= > CTS   ; It took me a few tries to fix this, but the correct URL is    H http://h30046.www3.hp.com/promofile_oov.php?promo=1-27LB&portal=PRODUCTS  L And way down at the bottom it does indicate that you must buy a truckload ofG stale breakfast cerial and send in all the boxtops in order to get this  deal.   2 YMMV. BTSOOM. DILLIGAS. RTFM. BOHICA. PEBKAC. PFM.    1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 16:10:14 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)! Subject: RE: HPworld - I Survived 3 Message-ID: <zuLkZY2D9aXl@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <DA4AD590CAF06845B671C398333A89C60415848A@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>, "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:L > Encompass will have a major role in selecting the content for the sessionsN > at the technology forum.  Be on the lookout for the call for papers, and theH > recruitment of volunteers to be on the content selection team.  At theF > Encompass meeting we were told that the forum will be ten times more' > technical than the most recent event.   G For those with comments regarding HPworld 2004 that go beyond the badly E worded questions on the session survey, where should they be sent to?   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:48:19 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived + Message-ID: <412BE1D2.1106E393@comcast.net>    Bob Kaplow wrote:  > W > In article <412a37c3@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com> writes: O > > Mostly ditto. I did have bad luck selecting some sessions. Like one labeled O > > 'Windows 2003 under the hood' where the go proceeded to explain for half an M > > hour on windows update mechanism. Jeez, the audience was expecting a talk L > > about an car engine and get get blah blah over a road to nowhere. Not on > > target.  > K > A LOT of the sessions were impossible to tell what they were really about G > from the one line title in the symposium packet. I went to one titled H > "Preparing for a disaster Tips and Techniques" and the first thing theJ > presenter said was "this is for 3000 users, but some of it will apply to- > 9000 customers". Half the crowd walked out.  > J > The session list was rather thin. I rarely had to pick between 2 or moreE > interesting sessions, it was more of a struggle to find someting of L > interest. And then they blow what could have been 2 more sessions with theN > "daily keynote snore" and the "manditory trade show" hours. I'm paying for aN > technical conference, not to be held captive by marketeers. And the hands-onF > sessions were not nice multiples of the regular sessions. One 2 hourD > workshop wiped out 2 sessions, but one good session also blocked 2 > workshops.  C As Steve Schweda(sp?) likes to point out, I'm sort of the "king" oftF off-the-wall ideas around here. So, let me bounce this one around (for all the good it will do):o  
 How 'bout we:S  G o Issue a call for papers. State a target date for the symposium. Venueo% to follow (you'll see why in a sec.).M+ o Select sessions that appear to have valueiB o Determine a rough value for the number of breakout rooms we needC o Select a venue that will fill our needs, and adjust the symposium @ date, if needed, to allow for availability of the selected venue   Is that too bizarre?  @ ...oh yeah, and pick a venue with hotelS (plural) within walkingE distance. The facility formerly known as the Rosemont (IL) Convention  Center comes to mind...-  I > The list also failed to identify the PRESENTER, something I consider atlN > least as important as the title. I'd go to a session with Richie Lary, WayneM > Sauer, John Loethar, Terry Shannon, Hoff, etc regardless of the topic. I'vekI > been to other sessions by folks who are very knowledgable, but couldn'tlL > present their way out of a paper bag. I don't need to see a warm body read > us his powerpoint slides.c  G More than one person remarked to me that abstracts of the sessions wereoG not linked to the scheduling pages. Should have been a no-brainer, IMO.P  F ...though the registration and scheduling went smoother than it has inC my memory, with the exception that late in the week, the schedulingoE server was becoming unusably slow at peak demand times (Micro$lop, noo doubt).P  @ As to folks missing, yes - John W. will be sorely missed by all,G especially by his closest associates and friends. I'm told David CatheyrD is too busy to continue to chair the VMS SIG which is why (I'm told)D that position changed. I should think that to likely be true of manyC others we missed this time around - V8.2 is too close to Gamma Test-6 release (you probably call it "General Availability").   D.J.D.! (Cross-posted to comp.org.decus.)m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:53:14 GMTS6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survivedn; Message-ID: <_pRWc.1200$LH6.77395@twister.southeast.rr.com>s  A "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote in messagen- news:zuLkZY2D9aXl@eisner.encompasserve.org...T > In articleI <DA4AD590CAF06845B671C398333A89C60415848A@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>,-1 "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes: E > > Encompass will have a major role in selecting the content for the  sessionsL > > at the technology forum.  Be on the lookout for the call for papers, and the J > > recruitment of volunteers to be on the content selection team.  At theH > > Encompass meeting we were told that the forum will be ten times more) > > technical than the most recent event.t >gI > For those with comments regarding HPworld 2004 that go beyond the badlyrG > worded questions on the session survey, where should they be sent to?e   Good luck with Interex.e  K Send your comments to Encompass so they'll know what to-do/not-to-do in Newn Orleans.   Kr   ________________________" Kenneth R. Farmer <>< 336-736-7376# OpenVMS.org: http://www.openvms.orgt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:09:24 -0400:# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>/) Subject: IBM vs. HP - a study in contrast/, Message-ID: <ROadndETvvsuJbbcRVn-uA@igs.net>  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1208&e=8&u=/cmp/20040824/tc _cmp/29116904&sid=95573650    " Palmisano Era In Full Swing At IBM   Mon Aug 23, 4:00 PM ET% Brian Bergstein, AP Technology Writer.  H NEW YORK (AP) -- Lou Gerstner's revival of IBM Corp. from its near-deathF experience in the 1990s has become a legendary business story. But the( epilogue could be nearly as interesting.  K Two and a half years after Samuel J. Palmisano took the helm from Gerstner,SJ the Palmisano era is coming into focus, defined by a big, overarching bet.  E Palmisano, 53, believes that while the rest of the high-tech industry K struggles with low-cost competition and commoditization, IBM can create andeF win *high-margin* opportunities in everything from Web-site managementC software to corporate technology services to *mainframe* computers.   J To get there, the affable but intense Palmisano, a career IBM employee, isD expecting every part of the company to grow faster than its industry
 counterparts.   L IBM estimates the overall market is growing 4 to 5 percent a year. To exceedI that, enormous IBM, which already has $89 billion in annual revenue, must-J find ways to add several billion more each year. That leaves little margin
 for error.  J It also means that services deals must be about more than IBM running someK company's tech department. Instead IBM plans to help that company transformd its entire business.  J Instead of relying solely on industry-standard parts in computing systems,0 IBM *produces* its own high-end microprocessors.  K And instead of just cashing checks from traditional customers in governmentmJ and big business, IBM is making unprecedented efforts to sell to small and medium-sized companies as well.t  J Doing all of this will require IBM to marshal resources from every corner, which won't be easy.  H "That's going to require this cultural change at IBM, because we have toI quite honestly reintegrate IBM," Palmisano said in an interview. "I mean,'J the client is asking us now, solve a problem. Don't just sell me 10 pieces' of technology that I integrate myself."   H But Palmisano believes the payoff could be huge. For a few years IBM hasF stressed its "on demand" strategy of helping companies align disparate- technologies so things can be done in a snap.s  L Palmisano believes those things also ought to include processes that haven'tG been integrated with high-performance computing before--like aspects ofo7 medical research--potentially expanding the $1 trillioniF information-technology market by more than 50 percent in coming years.  G "I think if it succeeds that it's going to be his legacy," said Charles7L King, an analyst with the Sageza Group. "In an industry like IT, despite allL the chatter about innovation, there's really not a huge number of innovative ideas out there."<  H Unlike many tech executives, Palmisano maintains a quiet public persona,G although he pays close attention to how the company is portrayed in ther media.  E A master salesman nicknamed "the closer," Palmisano says avoiding thepK spotlight frees him to have more meetings with customers, which account for ? 60 percent of his time.   [as opposed to carly(tm) "the Knife"]   C Rob Enderle, a former IBM business development manager who now is aiK technology analyst, sees Palmisano as reluctant to leave behind his past ing* sales even now that he's chairman and CEO.  L "I don't really think he has actually stepped up to the entire job," Enderle said.   E Among Palmisano's biggest directives is for IBM to dominate "business E process transformation" services, in which consultants and tech geeks=@ descend on a company and improve everything from data storage to human-resources administration._  J Palmisano has made IBM's sales teams reorganize around industry expertise,I such as banking or health care. Earlier he bought PricewaterhouseCoopers' I consulting arm for $4 billion, and ordered IBM lab researchers to consultr with customers, too.  I Merrill Lynch analyst Steve Milunovich calls IBM's approach "bear-huggingtJ customers," and credits Palmisano for the aggressiveness. "IBM has the eye, of the tiger back under Palmisano," he said.  J While Palmisano says his vision will require important changes within IBM,K he believes he got a mandate for such reforms in a companywide "values jam" L that IBM held for its 320,000 employees over its internal network last year.K Palmisano says employees asked that IBM slash bureaucracy and let low-levelrJ managers make quicker decisions on everything from client relationships to worker pay.e  L To further that aim, IBM this month set aside $100 million for the company'sL 21,000 lowest-level managers to use at their discretion if fast action for a customer is warranted.  J IBM executives say Palmisano has stressed ethical governance and teamwork.L He got $7.9 million in overall compensation in 2003 but put about $3 millionF of it in a pool for 14 other top executives to share, to emphasize the group's effort.f  B Still, IBM has warts. It hasn't resolved a Securities and ExchangeG Commission investigation surrounding revenue booked from Dollar GeneraleL Corp. in 2000 and 2001. This summer the U.S. Treasury Department's inspectorK general said IBM lobbyists had illegally altered a Treasury document during  a debate on pension policy.   G IBM could be forced to shell out billions to older workers because of aiA lawsuit in which a federal judge has ruled that IBM committed age-G discrimination when it--like other companies--changed the rules for itsn pension plan in the '90s.r  K Retirees complain that Palmisano has ignored their grievances over dramaticmJ cuts in their medical coverage. Many retirees had been told before leavingH Big Blue that health insurance would be essentially free for the rest of their lives.  L IBM contends health-care costs are too high now; retirees say it's executive, compensation that has gotten out of control.  K "This is out and out greed, and that has not changed under Palmisano," saide/ Sandy Anderson, a former semiconductor manager.a  B Another retiree, Donald Parry, criticizes IBM's refusal to excludeL pension-fund profits when executive compensation is calculated, a step other big companies have taken.s  G Even so, Parry can't forget the promise he saw in Palmisano way back in1H 1973, when Palmisano joined IBM as a salesman right out of Johns Hopkins University.R  J Along with other new hires, Palmisano was sent to a 10-week training classJ in Washington, D.C. According to Parry, the original teacher had alienatedE the group, and Parry was brought in to straighten things out. He soon L noticed that Palmisano, who had been a lineman on the Johns Hopkins football4 team, had mobilized the group to complete a project.  H "You could see right then, this was a guy a cut above the others," Parry4 said. "Smooth, smart, he could get people together."  I Since then, Palmisano has been IBM's golden boy, rising through the salestJ ranks into key leadership slots. He ran IBM Japan, headed the PC division,K and led the systems and the services units before becoming Gerstner's No. 2eA in 2000. In 2002, he became the 93-year-old company's eighth CEO.s  ? Palmisano is considered gregarious, informal, and approachable.S  I "He relates to people very well," said former IBM executive John Patrick. J "What you see is what you get. It's not like, `What did he mean by that?'"  ' But Palmisano can drop the hammer, too.l  K "If you get in a meeting and review your monthly performance, that could beL< a difficult meeting if you're not performing," Patrick said.  J In The Associated Press interview, Palmisano's buoyant tone quickly becameJ tinged with irritation when he was asked about rival Hewlett-Packard Co.'sD claims that IBM consultants push IBM's own hardware and software too
 aggressively.   E "You're talking to the guy who started the services business at IBM,"mL Palmisano responded. "It's always been based on what the client desires are.0 That's why it went from nothing to $42 billion."  C Marc Lautenbach, who oversees IBM's sales to small and medium-sizedoI companies, calls Palmisano "healthily impatient" for results. Asked if he B ever gets surprising phone calls from the boss, Lautenbach smiled.  H "Nothing surprises me anymore," he said. But he added that the calls are "always constructive."  I IBM stock has fallen 17 percent since Palmisano became CEO; the Dow Jones0G and S&P 500 averages are down about 3 percent since then. However, WalltF Street largely accepts his game plan. Analysts predict IBM will grow 8F percent this year and 6 percent in 2005. Meanwhile, Hewlett-Packard is sputtering.t  K In the interview, Palmisano said IBM's biggest challenge now will be movingt faster and more efficiently.  I "I'm not worried about the marketplace," he said. "Other people might be,aK but they see the world through a different set of lenses. We think that our 0 ability to continue to perform is in our hands."     -----------w  H I don't hear IBM complaining how hard it is to sell Power or mainframes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:32:30 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: IBM vs. HP - a study in contrastu= Message-ID: <5Ymdnb1Ue70uXLbcRVn-sw@metrocastcablevision.com>t  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:ROadndETvvsuJbbcRVn-uA@igs.net...   ...1  J > I don't hear IBM complaining how hard it is to sell Power or mainframes.  * I guess it helps when you actually try to.  K But what a concept:  focus on high-margin products!  Why didn't we think too% suggest that to Capellas 4 years ago?/   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:59:56 -0400.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <PZSdnVFFTMX8J7bcRVn-gw@igs.net>   Bob Kaplow wrote:c7 > In article <4121C77A.201@tsoft-inc.com>, David FrobleE > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:o7 >> I have the perfect job for her.  Target drone pilot.U >]E > Sorry. That job is reserved for Bob Palmer. But Carly, Curly, et alU > can be > the backup pilots.  # How about the target pennants?  :-)d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:02:31 -0400r# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP...., Message-ID: <7vudnXbABudhJ7bcRVn-hQ@igs.net>   Bob Kaplow wrote:17 > In article <4120DCAC.D64B9A9E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei-( > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >> One idea: >>C >> When IA64 fails, and the printer business can no longer count onuE >> making profits by selling ink, perhaps HP might declare bankrupcy, F >> at which point, creditors might force HP to sell VMS to someone who >> would make good use of it.r >cG > When IA64 fails, I wonder what HP will do with the Alpha IP rights it  > still < > owns? They only licensed it to Intel, they didn't sell it. > 0 > For that matter, HP could license it to AMD...    K Given the sterling decision making prowess in the CHumhPaq executive suite,aH they'd probably sell the rights to Alpha to IBM for $1 and then continue3 their migration to a Chinese knock-off of the 4004.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 05:53:29 +0800t, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: If OVMS is killed by HP....0 Message-ID: <87fz6cnqxy.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  6 kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes:  ^ > In article <4120DCAC.D64B9A9E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >> One idea: >> -J >> When IA64 fails, and the printer business can no longer count on makingN >> profits by selling ink, perhaps HP might declare bankrupcy, at which point,Q >> creditors might force HP to sell VMS to someone who would make good use of it.a >rM > When IA64 fails, I wonder what HP will do with the Alpha IP rights it stille< > owns? They only licensed it to Intel, they didn't sell it. >B0 > For that matter, HP could license it to AMD...  ? Why would AMD want a second one? AMD *ARE* an Alpha licencee...>  F If they want a `new' high end follow on to iceberge, they already have the tools in house.e  / Are they an Architecture licencee like Samsung?o   -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda..@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:10:32 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>c$ Subject: Re: IMAP for TCPIP 5.3 eco2, Message-ID: <412B8494.BAEFE23B@teksavvy.com>   Michael Austin wrote:l >  > OpenVMS 7.3-1 update 2 > TCPIP 5.3-182 (eco 2)r  R > Under certain yet-to-be-determined conditions, I have several sites from which IQ > I cannot get mail -> IF my IMAP server is running AND my IMAP-client has made a  > connection.   J They seem to have made a lot of changes to IMAP between 5.3 and 5.3-ECO-2.  > On VAX, IMAP worked at 5.3, but crashes on startup with ECO-2.A (I fairness, on VAX, IMAP is not supported, just provided as is).p   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 12:56:36 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)s, Subject: Re: Looking for VMS experts opinion= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0408241156.5383d5c5@posting.google.com>   T "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote in message news:<cfnmgn$k36$1@news.cybercity.dk>...- > Carly has a vision, and VMS is not it - and/J > like all visionaries, she is unlikely to let facts get in the way of the	 > vision.n  E Carly has spoken very positively about OpenVMS on multiple occasions,o7 and you can even find videos on the HP OpenVMS website:e1 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/25th/index.htmla  C As one of the bright spots (both growing and profitable) within thegB ESS organization (the sole area which fell short in last quarter'sE results), and with 3 quarters averaging double-digit growth, I'm suref? OpenVMS gets noticed at the top. But it's not what requires the ) majority of upper management's attention.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:45:58 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s, Subject: Re: Looking for VMS experts opinion, Message-ID: <412BB716.C1CBE5E1@teksavvy.com>   Keith Parris wrote:RG > Carly has spoken very positively about OpenVMS on multiple occasions,w  N Speaking to the troups and/or VMS bigots isn't enough. She must present VMS asG a viable , core , strategic product whenever she presents her company'svN product to the public and to the press. And HP has failed just like Compaq did in that respect.  C It doesn't cost any advertising budget to include VMS in the publiccM presentations Carly makes. But the consistant omission of VMS from her publiciN appearances sends a very strong message that HP doesn't see VMS as a long term$ strategic product it wishes to grow.  9 > and you can even find videos on the HP OpenVMS website:13 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/25th/index.html   J I don't care about videos or testimonies hidden away in the VMS website. IA care about HP telling the world it has VMS and wants to grow VMS.w  J I care about Carly making press releases about VMS wins. The fact that SueL must find ways to get some VMS stuff out the door almost covertly says a lot  about HP's intentions about VMS.     > E > As one of the bright spots (both growing and profitable) within thesD > ESS organization (the sole area which fell short in last quarter'sG > results), and with 3 quarters averaging double-digit growth, I'm surea" > OpenVMS gets noticed at the top.  ) May I ask how you got that information ?    M If that information is true, then how come Carly didn't mention that when sheKN had to announce the bad news about ESS ? She could have said that some productK lines including VMS were growing and profitable within ESS. That would haveh' sent a very positive message about VMS.   H Unless, of course, VMS had dwindled to the size of Tandem where a single8 additional sale can increase sales in a quarter by 100%.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:04:18 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>9, Subject: Re: Looking for VMS experts opinion, Message-ID: <tIqdnWDEX_L6JrbcRVn-pQ@igs.net>   Keith Parris wrote:s- > "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote in message0* > news:<cfnmgn$k36$1@news.cybercity.dk>.... >> Carly has a vision, and VMS is not it - andG >> like all visionaries, she is unlikely to let facts get in the way ofe >> the vision. > G > Carly has spoken very positively about OpenVMS on multiple occasions, 9 > and you can even find videos on the HP OpenVMS website:t3 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/25th/index.htmlb > E > As one of the bright spots (both growing and profitable) within theMD > ESS organization (the sole area which fell short in last quarter'sG > results), and with 3 quarters averaging double-digit growth, I'm sureaA > OpenVMS gets noticed at the top. But it's not what requires theu+ > majority of upper management's attention.     G If VMS is doing so well, perhaps HP ought to close down the rest of thes	 division.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:30:50 -0700T3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>o+ Subject: New mail announcements / Broadcasto. Message-ID: <412BCFAA.3070100@Flying-Disk.com>  : For some odd reason, the broadcast messages about new mail; arrivals have ceased on my system.   I haven't deliberatelym, done anything to cause this, so I'm puzzled.  < I'm running Motif K1.5 on an XP1000 with about eight windows? open.   Show Terminal shows every window has Broadcast enabled."@ Show Broadcast says that Broadcasts are enabled for all classes. What am I missing?  > It may be a coincidence, but this change seemed to occur about! the time I installed Mozilla 1.4.    Any suggestions or ideas?b   Thanks,n Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:39:17 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) / Subject: Re: New mail announcements / Broadcast-2 Message-ID: <FkQWc.8699$UZ2.1959@news.cpqcorp.net>  d In article <412BCFAA.3070100@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:A :...the broadcast messages about new mail arrivals have ceased...u= :I'm running Motif K1.5 on an XP1000 with about eight windows @ :open.   Show Terminal shows every window has Broadcast enabled.A :Show Broadcast says that Broadcasts are enabled for all classes.d  :   You mention DECwindows K1.5, but not the OpenVMS version   nor the ECO(s) installed.c  ;   There is a problem with $brkthru around in certain recenta=   configurations including certain V7.3-1 and V7.3-2 softwaree9   configurations, and a SYS ECO kit is available with thee;   fix.  (An older SYS kit could unfortunately introduce the 	   error.)g  =   If that is not the cause, also check the current setting ofs%   the MAIL$SYSTEM_FLAGS logical name.      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:01:05 +0200r. From: Frank Themann <frankthemann@T-Online.de>6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security+ Message-ID: <412B9E81.D83F4228@T-Online.de>t   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   [...]l  D > Look at the one I provided.  What value is derived from that?  YouB > can't even tell positively that it is not a local disk.  But, inJ > case your interested it could have been \\SERVER9.  Now, what additionalH > information of value does that provide?  If one is concerned, one doesH > a better job of seeing to it that information that might leak out does! > not contain useful information.d  D As I said, not every employer is a university or school - a real bigA company usually has an internal network covering all sites. TherenH usually is a system in the computer names (even the mainframes...). PartH of this structure could possibly be reconstructed by the full path name.E In my company it could. What if not me, but my bosses boss sends the H file after doing some changes? He /she changed something on purpose, andD doesnt want anybody to know the original text. Somebody getting theD file could see what I wrote, and, he/she could see who wrote that inF what department. In an university, that doesnt matter, of course, but/ in real business, it could screw up a big deal!e   [...]s  F > Of course security is the admins job.  If your company doesn't see a> > problem in letting that information out, then why would you?  D They do see a problem - thats why we are not supposed to send a docH file via email. Every pc in our company has a pdf creator (of any kind).  L > > 2. Sure - but what if the security problem is caused inside the network?H > > Have you ever worked for a very large company or for the government? > F > Oh yes.  Still do.  Internal espionage is a totally different matterG > and also not MS's problem.  So, when was the last time you swept your D > office for bugs?  How about your home?  How much sensitive companyF > information do you say out loud?  is your phone tapped?  Do you knowH > for sure?  if the information contained routinely in MS Word documentsE > was seen as a potential security problem the parties involved wouldgE > use other products, including the typewritter.  For most people andn > companies, it is not.t  E Who said anything about MS? We are talking about a company policy! OfhB course, some mechanisms in word are nice, but the data has to stay inside the companys network.r   > > 3. no comment... > F > Why?  How many security problems go away when you don't run Windows?E > But, most companies consider the trade-off to great to make and theo > risk to minor.  G I didnt say that - I just didnt comment this, because you already didH> in your reply (see below). I have no problems with M$ software8 whatsoever. The problem is always the user, not M$ word!  I > >> OK, OK, so number three is somewhat unrealistic in todays world, butaK > >> then, if you are going to compromise security for the sake of businessoG > >> expedience then you shouldn't really complain about other securitye8 > >> problems directly related to your own actions.  :-)   [...]e  D > And, as I pointed out above this is nothing new.  It was done withC > typewritters and even pen and paper long before Word came around.t   Me too.   I > > A company could easily loose a multi-million contract due to security  > > problems like this.i > K > True, and security is very important.  But worrying about the small stufflI > while ignoring the real threats is counter-productive.  The informationoI > contained in the properties of a Word document pale incomparison to thetJ > contents of your office trashcan.  And that gets handled by some minimumJ > wage schmuck who would very likely sell his mother for a pack of smokes.E > Be security conscious, but don't spend all your time worrying about ! > things that matter very little.b  F Can you imagine how many mails with doc files a business partner couldE get from one department? If only 10 per cent of these doc files would A disclose classified data, the damage could be impressively great. H Industrial espionage is nothing a university has to worry about, but forG companies, it is a real (expensive) problem. Even within a company, youa@ should consider whether or not you send something as a doc file.  E I know several companies we do business with, where sending doc filesy2 via email, or floppy disk, is strictly prohibited.   Franka   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 19:46:56 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n6 Subject: Re: OT: WORD documents and corporate security3 Message-ID: <jgiu5dGMSq63@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <412B7D3B.92139238@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > L > What if the user name is that of a politician who has publicly denied everO > writing/seeing this document ? The legal ramifications should that politician P > go though some legal/impeachement process would be interesting. Would the userO > name information hidden in the word document be usable as evidence in a court>
 > of law ?  @    Let's just say the ease a faking one would give even the most)    outrageous politican safe deniability.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 00:55:55 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt6 Message-ID: <00A36D8C.116E5846@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  S In article <00A36D2D.6955CB50@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:&o >In article <b096a4ee.0408231614.66e6ebed@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:. >>Mr. Shake and Baker wrote: >> >>[...] J >>> >I will write to Hunter Goatley and ask for a copy of his program (see >>> >his post in this thread). >>> - >>> ...but you still need a terminal...  doh!r >>+ >>Hmmm. I have a terminal. I even said so. ) >>
 >>> plonk! >>J >>Well goodbye to Mr. Shake and Baker and his inane questions and remarks! >t >What a childish twit.     >EI >Do you speak for yourself or for everone here?  If for yourself, go fuckoI >off.  If for the entire newsgroup, I'll gladly step out.  I am sure thattI >my contributions to comp.os.vms in terms of VMS will not be missed when,DI >in its place, there will be your faineant prattle to fill that technicalh >void. >R% >I'll give the group a day to decide.m  H Oh, for heaven's sake.  Of course Alan E. Feldman doesn't speak for the K entire group - but he doesn't seem to be saying what you think he's saying,n either.   C You plonked him. "plonk", usenet-wise, was the sound somebody makesMI as they go in your killfile; he therefore understood that you wouldn't beDI talking to him anymore because you'd killfiled him.  (This was apparentlyiI not what you meant by it.)  This makes his "goodbye" something other thanpI a request for you to go away, especially since he thought you wouldn't be K reading it, having him killfiled.  (That said, making fun of people's names-N _is_ pretty childish.  But up 'til then, I don't see him as being particularlyL in the wrong - you referred to XPDNT updating a DECterm status line; he said> he didn't have a DECterm, and you guys were off to the races.)  L Your technical contributions are extremely valuable to the VMS community andD to comp.os.vms in particular, so I very much hope you won't go away.   -- Alano   -- oO ===============================================================================p0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025hO ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 16:13:54 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)M Subject: Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HPd3 Message-ID: <5MyeeIMTsL52@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  \ In article <412B7C35.A4A982D7@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:O > In fairness, if this was made at an HP event, then you can't really expect tou& > have totally unbiased presentations.  K Actually, it was an Interex / Encompass event. HP was one of many corporate 	 sponsors.   O > The presentation did have interesting information about history of chips, andu5 > until he got to Alpha, the bias wasn't so apparent.  > K > Where Shannon didn't delve into is why a superdome couldn't be built with M > opterons or intel 64 bit 8086s. What exactly is missing from those chips too   or Alpha EV8 :-)  J > make such machine possible and whether Intel/AMD plan to add whatever is< > missing to allow the building of mainframe class machines. > M > It seems to be that IA64's only edge right now is that 8086s aren't used toeK > build Superdome class machines. If/when the 8086s get whatever feature isnP > missing, then IA64 will have lost its last raison d'tre and could be replaced > by the 8086.  , Alpha had it then. Long before any one else.  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"w& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfsL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.htmlm   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 16:13:06 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)T Subject: Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP  World< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0408241513.f69239a@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<412B7C35.A4A982D7@teksavvy.com>...- > Bill Todd wrote:J > > Gee:  even though Terry claims not to be accepting HP's shilling, he's' > > clearly still their favorite shill.. > O > Yes, and it was no surprise to see a pro-HP slant to his presentation. I findMN > it odd that he felt it necessary to have as a first slide, a huge disclaimer+ > about who he works and doesn't work for. a > O > In fairness, if this was made at an HP event, then you can't really expect to & > have totally unbiased presentations. > O > The presentation did have interesting information about history of chips, andl5 > until he got to Alpha, the bias wasn't so apparent.m > K > Where Shannon didn't delve into is why a superdome couldn't be built withiM > opterons or intel 64 bit 8086s. What exactly is missing from those chips toIJ > make such machine possible and whether Intel/AMD plan to add whatever is< > missing to allow the building of mainframe class machines. > M > It seems to be that IA64's only edge right now is that 8086s aren't used touK > build Superdome class machines. If/when the 8086s get whatever feature islP > missing, then IA64 will have lost its last raison d'tre and could be replaced > by the 8086.  9 why is everyone so ga ga with opteron?  It is an x86 boat ; anchor that will in the coming years be dead.  It certainlyi' can't run a high end system like alpha.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:48:13 -0400p* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>T Subject: Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP  World= Message-ID: <FpadnSxY5JruTrbcRVn-rA@metrocastcablevision.com>b  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagel6 news:d7791aa1.0408241513.f69239a@posting.google.com...   ...e  ( > why is everyone so ga ga with opteron?  E It's fast (about as fast as, and in some cases faster than, any otherlL commercial 64-bit processor out there, with the possible exception of POWER5 in some significant areas).e  H It's inexpensive, especially in small MP systems (more so than any otherI general-purpose 64-bit processor - you have to go to embedded products to7 find anything less expensive).  F It's reliable (very significant on-chip RAS features, nearly equalling
 Itanic's).  K It runs both 32-bit and 64-bit commodity software at full native speed (the03 real clincher, I suspect, in the majority of case)."     It is an x86 boaty/ > anchor that will in the coming years be dead.o  H In the coming years, *all* of us will be dead.  In the meantime, OpteronJ stands at least a reasonable chance of killing off most of its competition save for Xeon and POWER.     It certainly) > can't run a high end system like alpha.o  8 Really?  Care to provide very specific evidence why not?   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 05:50:12 +0800o, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP  World HP  m0 Message-ID: <87k6vonr3f.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:_  E > It seems to be that IA64's only edge right now is that 8086s aren't.? > used to build Superdome class machines. If/when the 8086s get1@ > whatever feature is missing, then IA64 will have lost its last2 > raison d'tre and could be replaced by the 8086.  < Not quite, Cray are using OPs to build a Cray class machine.  6 The only itanic box I have any respect for is the SGI.   -- 6< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.K@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:28:53 +0800e, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From HP World HP Woo0 Message-ID: <87smaco0ey.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  @ > Note how carefully Terry refers to x86-64 as 'extensions' to aD > 32-bit architecture, rather than as an actual 64-bit architecture.: > Kind of makes you wonder why he doesn't refer to IA32 as@ > 'extensions' to a 16-bit architecture, doesn't it?  After all," > that's exactly the same concept.  ; Perhaps they could have done a virtual address extention...d   -- 8< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 19:50:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)aG Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK 3 Message-ID: <dfCMgyB4CaRI@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  c In article <412a35dd$0$1888$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> writes:e  > > Tom's right, a VAX loops when idle (as opposed to other CPU : > technologies, that can wait for an interrupt when idle).  E    IIRC, VAXen can do this too (via HALT), it was just never used by l@    the OS.  And later VAXen had consoles that could be set to do!    something in reaction to HALT.t   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2004 19:58:47 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i> Subject: Re: What is/was ODS-6 ? (Referenced in recent HM2DEF)3 Message-ID: <Za9U$8YezYpL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <cgdo4k$ul5$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:rR > Spiralog has been retired, so we can be sure it is not Spiralog. I do know that Q > VMS engineering has been working on a new and faster filesystem for many years  I > now, so I guess some of the first signs of it are already appearing in sA > structures like these. Maybe Hoff or Hein can tell us more ????l  C    ODS-1 has been semi-retired.  It will still run on my VAX, but Ie@    have to use a vritual disk to get one small enough.  it's not    supported on Alpha or I64.o  -    But it's still in the header files et. al.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:45:06 GMTi/ From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>sC Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?t1 Message-ID: <mILUc.19$2s.15@twister.nyroc.rr.com>e  C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messageo+ news:newscache$8zbn2i$jfl1$1@news.sil.at...aG > Last weekend I returned from my vacation and after reading some mailsaI > I saw 2 new ECOs for 7.3-2 (RMS and MOUNT96). I thought I give it a try I > and installed it successfully on my DS10. Then I installed it on my PWSnG > and get Bugchecks during boot (Invalid Exception while above ASTDEL -dJ > with process SWAPPER - seems very early in the boot, before STARTUP.COM)  L I've just installed these two ECOs on a DS20 and I haven't any issues (yet).   > 9 > Does anyone know of problems with (one of) these ECOs ?o >sI > In the meantime I'll try to remove the ECOs (btw: does anyone know if alJ > UNDO can be done while booted from the 7.3-2 CD - which I must boot fromJ > an Infoserver and promises funny evenings this week) and upgrade another > PWS and XP1000...e >e > TIAe >g > --   > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialisti > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:57:02 -0400t# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d7 Subject: [OT]: Stratus standardizes on Xeon, not Itanicm, Message-ID: <ROadndYTvvsyJbbcRVn-uA@igs.net>  . Intel Chips to Power VOS-Based Stratus Servers   Mon Aug 23, 8:45 AMe Jeffrey Burt - eWEEK  G Stratus Technologies Inc. is rolling out a new platform that brings itsf@ fault-tolerant Virtual Operating System environment to the Intel Architecture world.   J The Maynard, Mass., company on Monday unveiled the first two models in theH ftServer V Series, which are powered by Intel Corp.'s Xeon chips but runL Stratus' VOS environment, which is aimed at transaction-heavy customers such/ as financial institutions and securities firms.i  J "This really completes our road map in helping move our customer base-withJ the operating system staying intact-to a server line that fits more easilyK with the Intel road map," said Denny Lane, director of product marketing ato Stratus.  K It also standardizes the company's platforms, Lane said. Stratus now offersoI all of the operating systems it supports-Windows from Microsoft Corp., ftiJ Linux and VOS-on Xeon-based systems. The majority of Stratus' research andG development dollars going forward will focus on the Intel architecture,e according to officials.i  J In March, the company rolled out a line of fault-tolerant T Series serversG aimed at the telecommunications industry. Both the T and V series linesf2 originated within Stratus' Windows-based W Series.  G The new V Series systems come in the two-way 200 model and four-way 400tF model, and offer customers better performance at a lower cost than theI company's high-end Continuum systems, which run the VOS and HP-UX Unix OSn$ from Hewlett-Packard Co., Lane said.  H The Intel-based V Series systems, which are available immediately, offerI three to five times the performance of the Continuum servers, at about 30c percent lower cost, he said.  L Stratus sells two lines of servers, its Continuum family of high-end systemsF and a group of Wintel-based fault-tolerant servers. The latter systemsE feature at least two of each component running in lockstep, so if one ? component breaks down, the backup continues the process with noy
 interruption.   K Regarding VOS, Stratus had been rolling out a host of open-source tools andmJ applications designed to enable users to integrate their VOS-based systemsL with other platforms. Included in the OpenVOS program were such technologies! as Apache Web server and GNU C++.c   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.470 ************************