1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 27 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 474       Contents:1 Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS 1 Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS 1 Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS 1 Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???  Re: Divide instruction in IA64 Re: GCC for OpenVMS/VAX? Re: GCC for OpenVMS/VAX? Re: GCC for OpenVMS/VAX? Re: GCC for OpenVMS/VAX?< Re: How many key pieces of VMS infrastructure depend on BEA? Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: priority on scacp  Re: Re, Re : set prompt A Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From : Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2004 18:55:42 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) : Subject: Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0408261755.6754d449@posting.google.com>    Dear Dave and Lee,  E Just a public thank you, I sent this out to all my distribution lists A (internal and external)(technical, managment and executive) as an  OpenVMS Pearl.  " I apreciate your help and support.  
 Warm Regards,  Sue   e David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<41266947.4F1EE396@comcast.net>...  > Lee Mah wrote: > > = > > We just had a disaster at one of our 3 sites 4 hours ago. 9 > > Both the site's 2 nodes and 78 shadow members dropped = > > when outside contractors killed all power to the computer ; > > room during maintenance.  Fortunately the mirrored site = > > 8 miles away and a third quorum site in another direction C > > kept the cluster up after a minute of cluster state transition. D > > I'm now in the process of recovering the dropped shadow members. > J > Please submit your story to Sue Skonetski (susan dot skonetski at hp dot > com) as an OpenVMS Pearl.  >  > D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:30:25 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS, Message-ID: <INqdnc3tL_NFN7PcRVn-ow@igs.net>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > Dear Dave and Lee, > G > Just a public thank you, I sent this out to all my distribution lists C > (internal and external)(technical, managment and executive) as an  > OpenVMS Pearl.        4 When you send these to carly(tm), add the following:  # Can Windows or Linux do this today?  Can PH-UX do this today?- Can Sun or IBM do this nearly as well as VMS?    And the answer is......  "Read my lips. No they can't."  H Do our enterprise customers want reliability and disaster tolerance. Why golly, yes they do!!  D So carly(tm), remind me again why aren't we advertising and actively promoting OpenVMS?  
 Sincerely,J What Passes for the OpenVMS Marketing Department Because Nobody Else in HP is Doing Squat To Promote VMS     H None of the foregoing was written by Sue, nor encouraged by Sue, nor (c) Sue.   (c) John Smith (non-HP variety)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:14:14 -0700  From: Z <z@no.spam> : Subject: Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS0 Message-ID: <10itd7va7rdsn89@corp.supernews.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: < > this wouldn't happen to have been you Andrew, would it? :)  < No, it wouldn't, with a replication server for the database.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:15:49 -0700  From: Z <z@no.spam> : Subject: Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS0 Message-ID: <10itdatmi3uh40d@corp.supernews.com>   Z wrote:= >> this wouldn't happen to have been you Andrew, would it? :)   > > No, it wouldn't, with a replication server for the database.  ? Oh geez, I read that as "this wouldn't happen TODAY, would it?"    Sorry.  0 <note to self: lay off the late night vodka ;')>   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2004 13:33:52 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???3 Message-ID: <oW7wYt9GBW0W@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <cgip8s$2f3f$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> writes:? >> That's a bold statement.  What's the definition of "industry  >> standard" this week anyway. > L > "Industry Standard" is not a standard term, however we all know it when weE > see it.  Intel rarely uses Industry Standard and Itanic in the same L > sentence, and usually avoids calling the Itanic chip Industry Standard.  II > doubt whether Intel believe it will be so any more than the rest of us.   B "Industry Standard" is a misnomer and should probably be "Industry
 SUBstandard"    1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:03:50 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???% Message-ID: <412E3416.30108@MMaz.com>    Bob Kaplow wrote:   Q >In article <cgip8s$2f3f$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> writes:  >    > ? >>>That's a bold statement.  What's the definition of "industry  >>>standard" this week anyway.	 >>>        >>> L >>"Industry Standard" is not a standard term, however we all know it when weE >>see it.  Intel rarely uses Industry Standard and Itanic in the same L >>sentence, and usually avoids calling the Itanic chip Industry Standard.  II >>doubt whether Intel believe it will be so any more than the rest of us.  >>     >> > C >"Industry Standard" is a misnomer and should probably be "Industry  >SUBstandard"  >  >    > B Everyone already agrees that the Intel Architecture is the VHS of D computing, but that said, if you put a high-quality tape in the VHS E machine (ie. Unix, Linux) vs. a Kmart no-brand cheapy (ie. Windows),  I your mileage, and dependability, will greatly improve and though it will  H never be as a good as a Betamax (ie. VAX/Alpha with VMS), it is what we G have left to work with...  VMS may have won the Unix battle during its  C first decade of existence, but it lost the war just like Betamax...      Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------   Date: 26 Aug 2004 22:38:31 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <2p7736FgahptU1@uni-berlin.de>  % In article <412E3416.30108@mmaz.com>, . 	"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: > I >                        ..  VMS may have won the Unix battle during its  E > first decade of existence, but it lost the war just like Betamax...   C What?  I doubt there was ever a time when the number of VMS systems B outnumbered Unix Systems.  Unix ran on nearly everything including< many of the VAXen DEC sold.  VMS ran on nothing but the VAX.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:50:46 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???+ Message-ID: <412E9375.5DA89616@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: E > > Rather than applying that to VMS, we should perhaps apply that to F > > Itanic, go through the grieving period, then swallow our pride andK > > embrace IA32 (the present as well as the recent past of EDP) and x86-64  > > (the future of EDP). > F > At this point in time, with Opterons already appearing is mail orderO > magazines, it seems to me that the industry standard will very quickly switch P > from the 32 bit 8086 to the 64 bit 8086. With this in mind, porting VSM to the5 > 32 bit 8086 would be a waste of time and resources.   C Nonsense. Neither IA64 nor x86-64 is going to "take over the world" H "overnight". If they'd stop arguing and just do it, the product would beG out in plenty of time to exploit the existing installed base and recoup F the development costs, during which time the x86-64 port happens so as* THAT ramps up, sot does the cost recovery.  N > Porting it to the 64 bit 8086 would be a really wise move , especially sicneM > it would allow VMS to be sold and marketed along with Linux and Solaris and O > Windows etc. It woudl truly run on commodity and industry standard platforms.   H That, of course, is only half the job (oh, SHIT! here we go again!). The/ other half is - need I say it? - MARKETING!!!!!    D.J.D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:36:11 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <412E9E1B.5080401@tsoft-inc.com>   > Kenneth Farmer wrote:  >   G >> Dumped VMS for HP-UX.  Now that deserves a laugh.  Wonder if he had   >> anything  >> to do with that decision. >>J >> Itanium2 isn't that bad.  The rx2600 I have performs very well, it's a  >> nice I >> machine.  I wonder how many people that spend so much time criticizing  >> Itanium actually have one.   O How good or bad the itanic was, is, and becomes isn't the real issue, at least   for me.   Q Starting with DEC, and the painful path to HP, I've always had this issue.  With  L VAX and Alpha under the control of the same company providing VMS there has L never been an issue with VMS losing the hardware on which it ran.  Once the K hardware was abandoned, the fate of VMS depends upon whoever makes the CPU.   Q Alpha was the best CPU.  I doubt many will question this.  Not speaking for him,  L (and who could since he never quits talking/posting), but even Andrew might N admit that the CPU itself was great.  We won't get into packaging of the CPU. @ Regardless, Alpha is no more, as far as the future is concerned.  L If the itanic never becomes profitable for Intel, what have they to lose by Q dropping it?  Not much.  The big losers will be you and me and the rest of those  K who continue to believe that VMS is the best commercial OS available today.   O That's my issues with the itanic.  In my opinion the EPIC based CPU will never  O touch IBM's OOO Power architecture.  Thus, except for a few things that it may  Q do well, it will not succeed at the top end.  Opteron will kill it below the top   end, and maybe even there.  O It may be adequate for most VMS users.  I hope it is.  I hope it stays around.  P But if it doesn't, the actions of some idiots and Intel will have hurt VMS very  much, maybe fatally.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:18:28 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <CZadnVTOiJLoN7PcRVn-iQ@igs.net>   David Froble wrote:  >> Kenneth Farmer wrote: >> > G >>> Dumped VMS for HP-UX.  Now that deserves a laugh.  Wonder if he had  >>> anything >>> to do with that decision.  >>> C >>> Itanium2 isn't that bad.  The rx2600 I have performs very well,  >>> it's a nice > >>> machine.  I wonder how many people that spend so much time* >>> criticizing Itanium actually have one. > G > How good or bad the itanic was, is, and becomes isn't the real issue,  > at least for me. > E > Starting with DEC, and the painful path to HP, I've always had this B > issue.  With VAX and Alpha under the control of the same companyA > providing VMS there has never been an issue with VMS losing the F > hardware on which it ran.  Once the hardware was abandoned, the fate, > of VMS depends upon whoever makes the CPU. > @ > Alpha was the best CPU.  I doubt many will question this.  Not7 > speaking for him, (and who could since he never quits G > talking/posting), but even Andrew might admit that the CPU itself was F > great.  We won't get into packaging of the CPU. Regardless, Alpha is- > no more, as far as the future is concerned.  > E > If the itanic never becomes profitable for Intel, what have they to D > lose by dropping it?  Not much.  The big losers will be you and meD > and the rest of those who continue to believe that VMS is the best  > commercial OS available today. > E > That's my issues with the itanic.  In my opinion the EPIC based CPU D > will never touch IBM's OOO Power architecture.  Thus, except for aE > few things that it may do well, it will not succeed at the top end. ? > Opteron will kill it below the top end, and maybe even there.  > B > It may be adequate for most VMS users.  I hope it is.  I hope itG > stays around. But if it doesn't, the actions of some idiots and Intel . > will have hurt VMS very much, maybe fatally.    D Which idiots? I have my list of the usual suspects. Care to add any?    H Even if Itanic sticks around for a while, as long as it does not provideI leading price/performance or better performance at only a *slight* (5% or I so) price premium, it will not gain sales at the expense of Power or even L the forthcoming Sparcs. This does not bode well for VMS, for it will be onlyL existing customers and extremely few new customers who will opt to stay withI VMS if it is not competitive. And that doesn't even factor the likelihood K that HP will continue to price VMS itself at a significant premium to PH-UX  and Linux based systems.  L As you mentioned, Opteron will probably eat Itanic's  lunch from the low endJ and it will be the Intel BOD whose obligations are to Intel's shareholdersJ and not to HP's management which will ultimately drive Intel's decision toJ pull the plug on Itanic. They'll pull an HP and run the fab to stockpile aK few extra chips (a la EV7z) and then shut the line down. When that happens, K HP will be stuck competing against Dell solely as a Billy box pusher unless G HP decides to port all their enterprise operating systems to Opteron or  Power.  C But by then it would be too late to ramp up EV8 or beyond using the 3 intellectual property it is alleged they still own.   B Recognize that I don't have any firsthand knowledge about the nextL statement, I have my doubts about HP still owning any rights to Alpha. ThereF was the Compaq 2001 'donation'/license to Intel but since the chip has@ really not undergone any further development and is deemed to beK non-strategic and retired (stockpiled EV7z and the line shut down or nearly J so), I would not be surprised if HP has sold the rights to Intel for $1 asF an accounting cleanup exercise and as way to claim a tax loss. I don'tH believe that the 1997 FTC settlement holds any longer and any accountingI exercise is probably not a significant enough event to even be noted as a E minor footnote in any of HP's SEC filings or reports to shareholders.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2004 20:36:33 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> ' Subject: Re: Divide instruction in IA64 . Message-ID: <mdd8yc18lim.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   I > I know how a division by a power of 2 is done (shift right the register G > contents). But how will the IA64 compilers generate divide operations L > for non base-2 divisors ? (or how do current chips perform the division ?)  I And remember that the "shift as division by 2" fails for negative values, H as was demonstrated in HAKMEM (among other places) about 40 years ago...   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:02:22 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>! Subject: Re: GCC for OpenVMS/VAX? B Message-ID: <412e25af$0$19553$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Craig A. Berry wrote:   D > In article <412dfcac$0$19546$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,4 >  Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote: >  >  >>bcwright wrote:  >  > N >>>What's the latest version of GCC for OpenVMS/VAX?  Does anyone have a copy? >  > G > I have not heard of anyone maintaining a freely available version in  , > years.  Any reason to prefer it over HP C? >  > 5 >>gcc for OpenVMS Alpha and I64 is a component of GNV < >>  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/opensource.html#gnv >  > C > Um, no it's not.  GNV has features that translate gcc syntax and  F > switches into commands intelligible to the native HP C compiler for H > OpenVMS, but it assumes the presence of the latter.  The GNU compiler I > is not involved.  And as you point out, GNV is currently only provided  @ > for Alpha and I64 (though I believe earlier VAX versions were  > produced). >   = Then I wonder why gcc is listed as a component of GNV here... 8 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/portability/gnv_utilities.html  G Well, they are referring to available "commands" in GNV, so maybe they  F are really expecting you to have Compaq/HP C and C++ for the back end.   > & >>proGIS Software & Beratung - GNU-C++" >>  http://www.progis.de/index.php= >>proGIS Software & Beratung - OpenVMS Business Partner Brief 7 >>  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/progis/index.htm  >  > G > I can find nothing on proGIS's pages that corresponds to what the HP  I > page says about them.  Specifically there is no mention of gcc (though  E > they may be the ones who produced a port at some time in the past).  >   B I didn't include the proGIS links as a source of the gcc compiler D (although several years ago they were the primary source of gcc for E VMS), but rather as a resource, since I assume they still qualify as  H experts, if you are looking for "gcc porting to VMS" advice and support.@ "Beratung" means "consulting" in German, and I'm sure they would appreciate new clients as well.   H Also Richard Levitte was the primary source of GNU for VMS software and G would likely be one to know a great deal about the status and workings  @ of the gcc compiler. He may also appreciate a new client or two.   http://www.lp.se/ # http://www.lp.se/documents/VMS.html    The GNU on VMS Project6 using Mr. Peabody's Wayback Machine at www.archive.org6 http://web.archive.org/web/20030404143754/vms.gnu.org/    C > I believe Ada Core Technologies (http://www.adacore.com/) has to  J > maintain a version of GNU C in order to produce their GNU Ada product.  F > I have never heard of the C compiler being released separately, and 3 > their Ada product does not appear to support VAX.   G Yup, it would sure be nice if these companies would put their versions  G of gcc online for the community. But, an equally relevant question is,  1 whether the changes needed for VMS have either...   F - been integrated in the standard gcc distribution as can be found at  Redhat for example.    or  C - the gcc for VAX/VMS is now abandoned, and the Alpha/I64 versions  - really are now maintained by the GNV project.    or  / - some other, not yet recogized, source exists?    Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:31:49 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ! Subject: Re: GCC for OpenVMS/VAX? 2 Message-ID: <p0qXc.8835$dQ4.2421@news.cpqcorp.net>  } In article <craigberry-DB3D5E.12185126082004@news.isp.giganews.com>, "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> writes:   H   If somebody should find a pointer or a recent/current GCC port -- the J   proGIS pointers in the FAQ are clearly stale -- please do let me know.  H   I will add the kit to the next Freeware, and will also update the GCC    pointers in the FAQ.  7   I did also find this site, though know of no details:   3     http://public.www.planetmirror.com/pub/gcc-vms/    	--   E   Hobbyists can use the hobbyist license and the HP C compiler, while I   developers can get access to OpenVMS compilers including HP C via DSPP.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:09:10 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com! Subject: Re: GCC for OpenVMS/VAX? Q Message-ID: <OF13E868EB.2877669C-ON85256EFC.00690F7C-85256EFC.00694EA0@metso.com>    If someone wants to dig....   $ Mail.txt from that site 17-Nov-2002:  	 =3D=3D=3D   4 From: GNU on VMS Project Admin <admin@gnu-vms.lp.se>0 Subject: Information abot the GNU on VMS Project   Hello,  7 You have sent mail to the automagic information replier  of the GNU on VMS Project.  = The GNU on VMS Project is a project to bring GNU utilities to  the VMS platform.   = For more information, please read the WWW pages at one of the  following sites:  '              http://vms.gnu.ai.mit.edu/ .              http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/gnu-vms/3              http://www.vms.stacken.kth.se/gnu-vms/ C              http://www.rarf.riken.go.jp/archives/vms/gnu-vms/html/   ? To fetch software produced by the GNU on VMS Project, please go % to one of the following FTP archives:   %              ftp://ftp.lp.se/gnu-vms/ -              ftp://ftp.ctrl-c.liu.se/gnu-vms/ :              ftp://ftp.vms.stacken.kth.se/mirrors/gnu-vms/8              ftp://ftp.rarf.riken.go.jp/pub/vms/gnu-vms/    B NOTE: If you wish to set up a mirror site for the WWW pages or theE FTP archive, please send a mail message to mirror@howto.gnu-vms.lp.se < or read the page /howto/mirror.html at any of the WWW sites.  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------= --   Electronic mail:   admin@gnu-vms.lp.se    Snail mail:    Richard Levitte    Spannv=E4gen 38, I   S-161 43  BROMMA   SWEDEN   Fax:   None for the moment being    Phone:A   Int+46-8-21 24 90            (to Richard Levitte via nation.se) ;   Int+46-8-26 52 47            (to Richard Levitte at home)   H (Please, do not be afraid to call me at home.  I do not bite, and there= 's= an answering machine if I can't answer.  --  Richard Levitte)    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   > hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote on 08/26/2004 02:31:49 PM:  F > In article <craigberry-DB3D5E.12185126082004@news.isp.giganews.com>,: > "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> writes: > H >   If somebody should find a pointer or a recent/current GCC port -- t= heH >   proGIS pointers in the FAQ are clearly stale -- please do let me kn= ow.   H >   I will add the kit to the next Freeware, and will also update the G= CC >   pointers in the FAQ. > 9 >   I did also find this site, though know of no details:  > 5 >     http://public.www.planetmirror.com/pub/gcc-vms/  >  >    --  > H >   Hobbyists can use the hobbyist license and the HP C compiler, while=  H >   developers can get access to OpenVMS compilers including HP C via D= SPP. > 2 >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- 3 >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --  www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq 4 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- H >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com=   >=   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:23:36 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ! Subject: Re: GCC for OpenVMS/VAX? 0 Message-ID: <cFrXc.8860$WW4.66@news.cpqcorp.net>  p In article <OF13E868EB.2877669C-ON85256EFC.00690F7C-85256EFC.00694EA0@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: :  :If someone wants to dig.... : % :Mail.txt from that site 17-Nov-2002:  ..  @   All of the URLs that I tried from that message were all stale,   or had no kits I could find.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:01:39 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>E Subject: Re: How many key pieces of VMS infrastructure depend on BEA? , Message-ID: <412EA413.6040508@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:   D > Say Sun buys them and phases out the VMS flavors of applications &* > tools......where does that leave VMS...?    P I'd say that a large part of that question depends upon the types of VMS users. L   What percentage are looking for such tools, vs what percentage run custom N applications.  I've no idea, but, my very minor experience is that the custom P solutions and VMS fit together well.  The robust development environment of VMS ; is some part of why VMS is well suited to custom solutions.      Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2004 13:30:30 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived 3 Message-ID: <3gD8NFX9tQds@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <412D472C.AAF4E924@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Bob Kaplow wrote: 	 >> [snip]  >>  The union situation inK >> Rosemont can't be worse than Chicago, but may not be much better either.  > H > It's hard for me to say anything against unions because if not for theE > UAW, I wouldn't have straight teeth and my Mom couldn't stay in her  > house now that Dad is gone.   J In some areas they help. But when you have a booth at HPworld, and to plugJ in this is $100 and to store a box under a table overnight is another $100F and every simple 10 second job is another $100, it gets pretty absurd.  J let them charge what they want for what they do. Let *ME* decide if I want" to pay that rate, or do it myself.  J > On the other hand, it really does get in the way sometimes. You'd almostI > be better off to pay the union guys to go drink coffee and let the real  > go-getters do the job NOW.  H A couple months ago I was being trained on one of the applications I nowK support. I was doing the job of a union person for maybe 5-10 minutes while K they stood next to me and relaxed. The union steward came by and bitched at  me.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 02:23:45 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: priority on scacp5 Message-ID: <412e8d21$0$6173$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>   = "Pierre DESBOEUF" <pierredesboeuf@voila.fr> wrote in message  7 news:ab785dc5.0408260756.1193b21d@posting.google.com...  > Hi,  >  > G > With : >mc scacp, i changed channels priority of the cluster, but all C > is volatile. I would like to know if priority could be permanent.  > 	 > Thanks.   L I am not aware that it can be made permanent, although that would be a nice  enhancement.  @ It can execute a command file though from with it, by using '@'.  L It's not the nicest, but I just have the same file executed on all boxes on L startup (as you don't see any errors anyway). If any cluster member boots I J have it execute the same file on itself AND all other cluster members, as K the paths I'm setting positive and negative priorities on, wouldn't always  0 have been there, when each of the others booted.   Alex     ------------------------------    Date: 26 Aug 2004 17:12:56 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)  Subject: Re: Re, Re : set prompt= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0408261612.72d5011a@posting.google.com>   e David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<412D3BB8.D3EDD17F@comcast.net>...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > i > > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<412AA189.2C33B015@comcast.net>...  > > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > > > [snip]N > > > > I want DCL to offer an option to add the time to the DCL prompt -- theL > > > > time that the prompt appeared. This is how it works in MS-DOS and onI > > > > Stratus's VOS. That's what I am asking for. I am not asking for a H > > > > clock. I have a clock already. I want to be able to go back to aH > > > > session, either still in the SmarTerm history buffer or copy andL > > > > pasted to a file on the VAX, and have the times in the prompts. ThisN > > > > gives clues as to what happened when. It is not a comprehensive set ofN > > > > time stamps, but it is better than no time stamps. It might be nice toK > > > > also have at least the day as an added option as sometimes the time H > > > > alone is not enough (for example if you come back to a session a4 > > > > couple of days later and run more commands). > > > L > > > Some old advice (from Hoff?) was to write a short DCL "shell" proc. to7 > > > write out the time before accepting input, as in:  > > >  > > > $loop:! > > > $ write sys$output f$time()  > > > $ read sys$command line  > > > $ 'line' > > > $ goto loop  > > E > > The problem with this is that it dies with a ^Y and loses command  > > recall.  > 1 > Does INQUIRE work better than READ SYS$COMMAND?   D Nope. While it gives you command recall, it still has the ^Y problemE and it adds a new problem. You have to use an extra "layer of quotes"  to enter quoted strings.  - For example, with READ SYS$COMMAND you can do        SEARCH TO.COM "@"   5 but that doesn't work with INQUIRE for which you need        "SEARCH TO.COM ""@"""    or       SEARCH TO.COM """@"""   F It also ruins a trick I use that in certain circumstances allows me to7 skip having to double up quotes and surround by quotes.   ? > > I don't want to lose command recall in favor of timestamps.    [...]    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:44:48 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>J Subject: Re: SKHPC's Latest Take on IPF and Post-Superdome Technology From, Message-ID: <412EA020.5080003@tsoft-inc.com>   Andrew Harrison wrote:   > Jack Peacock wrote:  > . >> "Dr. Dweeb" <dr@dweeb.com> wrote in message* >> news:cgi923$1sl4$1@news.cybercity.dk... >>K >>> Well, that is a good question Bill.  It seems that the argument bandied G >>> arround for the Itanic is that it *is* in some way more capable for  >> >>
 >> top-end >>H >>> machines than the X86 chips which must be by definition lacking some" >>> important chip-level features. >>>  >>L >> It's partly a matter of semantics but from a strictly Intel point of viewL >> there is some truth that an Itanium has something extra.  The EMT64 XeonsI >> only have a 36 bit physical address, 64GB max memory, and Xeons use a  	 >> shared J >> bus which tends to limit scaling.  The Itanium (as I understand it) hasF >> additional hardware to take care of those limitations.  Rumors are  >> that the J >> EMT64 chips have 64-bit performance problems too, but there don't seem  >> to be/ >> enough of them around to confirm or deny it.  >> > E > Itanium uses exactly the same shared bus as Xeon (Frontside) and it . > limits scaling equally for Xeon and Itanium. > D > Since EMT64 is a AMD64 clone it would be better to compare ItaniumC > with the real thing rather than the clone and AMD64 does not have > > the issues associated with EMT64 or for that matter Itanium. > F > It does not have a shared bus, and while it currently cannot addressI > as much physical memory as Itanium, at 1 TB its current implimentationslB > address enough memory to cover 99.9% of all system requirements.    K Wonder how long Intel will continue with the itanic with .1% of the market?     E > Unlike both the rumours for EMT64 and the reality for Itanium AMD64 + > executes 32bit and 64 bit code very well.h > L >> Of course if you include AMD (Intel would rather you paid no attention toI >> that CPU behind the curtain) the "lacking" argument is reduced to highoJ >> performance floating point clustered arrays rendering 3D movie effects  >> whereK >> the entire app fits in the 9MB CPU cache.  I haven't seen a single claimeC >> that AMD would outrun an Itanium in that particular environment.h >  > D > High end FP is the Itanium niche or rather was, Power5 comfortablyA > trashes Itanium on FP for a single CPU with 2700 SPECfp vs 2161-D > for Itanium II. This is sadly the only point where Itanium manages > a second place.2 > G > When you get to 4 way systems Opteron at 70 SPECfprate is snapping onlD > Itanium II's heels (71.4), Alpha has also overtaken it as probablyD > would SPARC if there was a 4 way result and when you get to 16 way/ > Itanium is 4th behind Power, Alpha and SPARC.t >  > Small niche indeed.x    K Bet HP and Intel are unhappy.  A 3 year dead architecture is beating their  L latest.  Sad days for them.  They've got to be anxious for Alpha to go away M completely.  I do wish Samsung had whatever it took to shove new Alphas down e their throats.  :-)      Dave     -- a4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadc Vanderbilt, PA  15486r   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:46:47 +0000 (UTC)e6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ?e0 Message-ID: <newscache$jsm23i$ru6$1@news.sil.at>  W In article <2oi8c1Faq4loU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:-G >I cannot remember the precise details, but for some reason I recently JI >tried the PRODUCT command when booted from CD, and could not access the uF >product database on my system disk. There might be some logical name G >that is useful, but I couldn't find it at the time. I was looking for hJ >something similar to the LICENSE /DATABASE= command, but did not find it.  ' This is pretty much covered in the HELPe3 Mount the disk privately and then define 2 logicalsh   	$ DEFINE		PCSI$SYSDEVICE	disk9 	$ DEFINE/TRANS=CONS	PCSI$SPECIFIC	PCSI$SYSDEVICE:[SYSx.]M  K After this you use /REMOTE with the PRODUCT commands (like INSTALL, REMOVE, H SHOW [HISTORY, PRODUCT, RECOVERY_DATA], UNDO PATCH) to do what you want.  I Biggest problem is, that you need VMS732_PCSI ECO for proper manipulationnK of many/most of the ECOs and some/many of other products. So a pure OpenVMS K V7.3-2 installation CD is no longer sufficient to repair current VMS disks.t   -- m Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERo% Network and OpenVMS system specialistg E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:03:14 +0000 (UTC)s6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2] Known Problems with last ECOs ? 0 Message-ID: <newscache$yjn23i$s87$1@news.sil.at>  j In article <newscache$kptu2i$2fx1$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:D >But unfortunately it didn't help. The same crashes are still there.  E After some days without my server I found today a little bit time anduJ after looking again at the CLUE CRASH (thanks for the hint) I found indeedI that my SYS$VM.EXE is not identical to the one in the SYS 4 PCSI ECO kit.s  G The question is, how could this happen ? As my system disk is shadowed,oF a disk hardware problem should be out of scope (and indeed no error isG logged and no shadow merge or copy happened since SYS V4 installation).c  F >So, the culprit could well be the SYS V0400, but why did the PWS workC >with it for 3 weeks before the install of RMS/MOUNT96 stopped it ?c  G The SYS V4 got meanwhile indeed replaced by a V5, but currently I don't>+ think that this is related to my PWS crash.i  8 >OTOH, it could also be a problem of the PWS hardware...  A So far, not that I can confirm. And this is good (for my PWS ;-).e  B I did the installation of the SYS ECO (V5 and not V4) with /REMOTEA and was then able to boot again (and reinstall RMS V1, MOUNT96 V1  and the new BACKUP V1 ECOs)   A Funny thing is, that with the /REMOTE installation of the SYS V5,rF my VMS version became "X9Y4-O2L" and I had to SYSVER back to "V7.3-2",  4 So, thanks to you all folks. My machine is up again.3 But 2 questions (SYS$VM.EXE and X9Y4-O2L) remain...s   -- l Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER/% Network and OpenVMS system specialistn E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.474 ************************