1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 27 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 475       Contents:# .Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1 ' Re: .Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1 = Re: 450 %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, <domain.name> = Re: 450 %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, <domain.name> 1 Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS 1 Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! RE: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! RE: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ??? ! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???  Re: CSWS and jserv problems ) DCE: Initialization (get bindings) failed  Re: Divide instruction in IA64D Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users< Re: How many key pieces of VMS infrastructure depend on BEA? Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: HP Away  Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived RE: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived8 Re: Installing OpenVMS Alpha on PWS 600au without CD-ROM Re: OpenVMS Wikipedia entry  Re: OpenVMS Wikipedia entry  PL/I for OpenVMS 8.2$ Planned port of freeware to Itanium?( RE: Planned port of freeware to Itanium? Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1" Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1" Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1 Re: VAX Instruction Timings  Re: VAX Instruction Timings > Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK Re: Whither RAID?  Re: Whither RAID?  Re: Whither RAID? / Re: [TCPIP] How to configure SMTP outgoing only   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 06:51:08 -0700& From: twnews@kittles.com (Thomas Wirt), Subject: .Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1= Message-ID: <b3531425.0408270551.5ba8ddd7@posting.google.com>    Hans M. Aus wrote:I > Is it possible to assign two IP addresses on one NIC on one OVMS 7.2-1?  > J > Our hospital network is changing from 141.- to 10.- IP addresses and it K > might to nice to have the Alpha recognize both the old and the new until    > we've finished the transition.  B Yes it is.  IIRC you just config the second IP # as if it were theE first.  This will be more dependent on your version of TCP/IP than on F your VMS version.  We had 3 completely different IP numbers on each ofD 2  Alphas (1 NIC each) and had no problem.  This was in part because8 of a transition from one IP scheme to another, like you.  
 Good luck.   Thomas Wirt  Systems Manager  Kittle's Home Furnishings  Indianapolis, IN   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:26:19 +0200 . From: "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>0 Subject: Re: .Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-17 Message-ID: <aus-EE0DA3.16261927082004@news.cis.dfn.de>    Thomas,   I Many thanks for the quick response. Off the top my head at home, we have   TCPIP v5.1 (perhaps 5.1a).  H The current IP is the node AA and the DCPS printer queues are raw IP on 	 node AA.    / Can the new IP address have the same node name?   = In article <b3531425.0408270551.5ba8ddd7@posting.google.com>, (  twnews@kittles.com (Thomas Wirt) wrote:   > Hans M. Aus wrote:K > > Is it possible to assign two IP addresses on one NIC on one OVMS 7.2-1?  > > L > > Our hospital network is changing from 141.- to 10.- IP addresses and it M > > might to nice to have the Alpha recognize both the old and the new until  " > > we've finished the transition. > D > Yes it is.  IIRC you just config the second IP # as if it were theG > first.  This will be more dependent on your version of TCP/IP than on H > your VMS version.  We had 3 completely different IP numbers on each ofF > 2  Alphas (1 NIC each) and had no problem.  This was in part because: > of a transition from one IP scheme to another, like you. >  > Good luck. > 
 > Thomas Wirt  > Systems Manager  > Kittle's Home Furnishings  > Indianapolis, IN   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:44:50 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukF Subject: Re: 450 %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, <domain.name>) Message-ID: <cgn3b2$sdd$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   b In article <cgl1vp$a5l$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:! >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:  > N >>>Grey listing is amazing!  I have been running a FreeBSD based system using M >>>Exim/spamassasin/spamd with a grey listing solution for about 9 months now  >>>with amazing success! >>> M >>I can understand spamassassin having an effect but am pretty surprised that 1 >>greylisting has anything but a marginal effect.  > L >It was already mentioned that an enormous percentage of spam is being sent K >by virus-infected "zombie" systems where the virus is forwarding spam to a N >huge list of addresses.  MyDoom, Bagel, etc. are all spam-forwarding viruses.E >I don't know what SMTP engines they have, but I do know that an SMTP K >engine which keeps track of and retries addresses with 4xx errors is going I >to be harder to write and will be larger than a blast-and-forget engine. K >Sure, since spam and anti-spam systems is nothing but a huge arms race and J >"greylisting" is just another weapon in that arms race, some day spammersL >will release zombie viruses which retry 4xx errors and greylisting will no 1 >longer work.  But for now it is quite effective.   H We block direct sending of mail out of the University with our firewall.0 All mail has to go out via our central mailhubs.M All the modern viruses (netsky, mydoom etc) seem to have very little problem  M with picking up the mail settings from the infected system and attempting to  F send out via our central mailhubs - where they are then blocked by our anti-spam software. N I would expect any spammer software making use of such virus infected machines% would similarly pick up the settings.   L If there is an intermediate machine in the way such as our central mailhubs K (or an open-relay) then greylisting would not work since those intermediate 8 systems will almost certainly follow the RFCs and retry.    @ For viruses using the machines mail settings rather than sendingL directly or through an open-relay is probably not the best strategy since itN is more likely that a central mailhub will have anti-virus software installed.< Hence it is probably being employed as a fallback mechanism.  O However for spam the situation is different. Pretty much all anti-spam measures O are targetted at incoming rather than outgoing mail. Indeed as I recall one ISP M was sued when it blocked outgoing mail which it's anti-spam product regarded   as spam.  K For both viruses and spam which are attempting to send to a large number of J email addresses sending through an intermediate system allows them to workK faster since they can offload the work to the intermediate system - that is & one reason for the use of open-relays.  
 David Webb Security Team Leader CCSS Middlesex University     >--  >-Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:17:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> F Subject: Re: 450 %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER, no such user, <domain.name>, Message-ID: <412F5082.516D4CE6@teksavvy.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: M > If there is an intermediate machine in the way such as our central mailhubs M > (or an open-relay) then greylisting would not work since those intermediate : > systems will almost certainly follow the RFCs and retry.  J Howver, if there is a "serious" intermediate machine, then the victims canB notify that central SMTP server who can then identify the culprit.  M If you bypass a central server and use some dialup line, then there is little Q that can be used to trace you back (consider prepaid internet or internet cafs).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:08:19 +0100 < From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com>: Subject: Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS0 Message-ID: <cgnm9l$6gh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: < > this wouldn't happen to have been you Andrew, would it? :) >    Actually no it wouldn't.  3 The two customers I advise both have hot sites with 1 fully replicated data for all their key apps. One 6 of them replicates all their data as well non critical7 as well as critical though there is no cluster resource 0 on the DR site to support the non critical apps.  5 Pity you chose such an old example, things have moved 2 on just a tiny bit since the mid nineties or han't6 you noticed. OpenVMS for example has had 2 new owners,7 Compaq is no more, Alpha has been killed and 50% of all 9 HP's customers have no intention of migrating to Itanium.    Regards  Andrew Harrison E > "An early example of the effectiveness of OpenVMS is DT came in the C > mid-nineties in Paris when Credit Lyonnais survived a fire at its G > headquarters. Its multi-site OpenVMS Cluster safely mirrored its data G > at a second site, while the UNIX folks reportedly had to run into the A > burning building to pull the most-recent backup tape cartridges . > containing their data from the tape drives." > H > http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/storage/features/article.php/3396941   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:25:03 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: A hilarious example of a unix cluster vs. VMS, Message-ID: <5JWdnZRrnN71_bLcRVn-gw@igs.net>   Andrew Harrison wrote: > Bob Ceculski wrote: = >> this wouldn't happen to have been you Andrew, would it? :)  >> >  > Actually no it wouldn't. > 5 > The two customers I advise both have hot sites with 3 > fully replicated data for all their key apps. One 8 > of them replicates all their data as well non critical9 > as well as critical though there is no cluster resource 2 > on the DR site to support the non critical apps. > 7 > Pity you chose such an old example, things have moved 4 > on just a tiny bit since the mid nineties or han't8 > you noticed. OpenVMS for example has had 2 new owners,9 > Compaq is no more, Alpha has been killed and 50% of all ; > HP's customers have no intention of migrating to Itanium.      Andrew, J I don't know whether you have ever seen a television show that was popular9 in the US during the early 1960's entitled "Perry Mason".   H In it there was the ever-humbled prosecutor named Hamilton Burger, whoseE favorite line appear to be the one used whenever he wanted to object:   6 "Incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial, Your Honor."  . That certainly applies to your last statement.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:27:51 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???0 Message-ID: <cgmuqp$s05$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   David Froble wrote:    >> Kenneth Farmer wrote:  K > How good or bad the itanic was, is, and becomes isn't the real issue, at   > least for me.  > F > Starting with DEC, and the painful path to HP, I've always had this C > issue.  With VAX and Alpha under the control of the same company  K > providing VMS there has never been an issue with VMS losing the hardware  E > on which it ran.  Once the hardware was abandoned, the fate of VMS  % > depends upon whoever makes the CPU.  > J > Alpha was the best CPU.  I doubt many will question this.  Not speaking J > for him, (and who could since he never quits talking/posting), but even G > Andrew might admit that the CPU itself was great.  We won't get into  K > packaging of the CPU. Regardless, Alpha is no more, as far as the future   > is concerned.  >   B You are right, Alpha was/is a good CPU let down by packaging which4 except for a few honourable exceptions sucked rocks.  A Itanium seems to be an indifferent CPU unless you count being 4th C fastest on Integer behind Opteron, Xeon, Power4 and 2and fastest on > FP for single CPU workloads as something other than mid table.  @ Worse this mid table possition slides even further if you have a? whiff of SMP involved and Itanium slides back to 5th on Integer  and 4th on FP.  5 Put an app on there and the position worsens further.   D Or put another way the Itanium package like the Alpha package before@ it sucks because this is exactly what happened with Alpha boxes.  5 Frontside is not a bus that is designed to assist you 5 building large SMP systems (SGI will vouch for that).   > Couple that with a large system infrastructure where your best; server has a bisectional bandwidth which is 1/2 that of the ; slowest competitors, a tiny application portfolio, confused @ marketing messages, a pissed off customer base for your existing. systems and you have Alphacide all over again.   Regards  Andrew Harrison       K > If the itanic never becomes profitable for Intel, what have they to lose  H > by dropping it?  Not much.  The big losers will be you and me and the K > rest of those who continue to believe that VMS is the best commercial OS   > available today. > K > That's my issues with the itanic.  In my opinion the EPIC based CPU will  K > never touch IBM's OOO Power architecture.  Thus, except for a few things  I > that it may do well, it will not succeed at the top end.  Opteron will  2 > kill it below the top end, and maybe even there. > I > It may be adequate for most VMS users.  I hope it is.  I hope it stays  G > around. But if it doesn't, the actions of some idiots and Intel will  ) > have hurt VMS very much, maybe fatally.  >  > Dave >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:09:22 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> * Subject: RE: A whopping 50 percent...  ???R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFEF5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----E > From: Andrew Harrison [mailto:andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com]=20  > Sent: August 27, 2004 5:28 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + > Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent... ???  >=20  	 [snip...]    >=20D > You are right, Alpha was/is a good CPU let down by packaging which6 > except for a few honourable exceptions sucked rocks. >=20C > Itanium seems to be an indifferent CPU unless you count being 4th E > fastest on Integer behind Opteron, Xeon, Power4 and 2and fastest on @ > FP for single CPU workloads as something other than mid table. >=20B > Worse this mid table possition slides even further if you have aA > whiff of SMP involved and Itanium slides back to 5th on Integer  > and 4th on FP. >=207 > Put an app on there and the position worsens further.  >=20F > Or put another way the Itanium package like the Alpha package beforeB > it sucks because this is exactly what happened with Alpha boxes. >=207 > Frontside is not a bus that is designed to assist you 7 > building large SMP systems (SGI will vouch for that).  >=20@ > Couple that with a large system infrastructure where your best= > server has a bisectional bandwidth which is 1/2 that of the = > slowest competitors, a tiny application portfolio, confused B > marketing messages, a pissed off customer base for your existing0 > systems and you have Alphacide all over again. >=20	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >=20 >=20  ) Andrew - help me understand something.=20   = If the Itanium chip is such a bad design, why is Sun publicly 4 contemplating releasing Solaris on this platform?=20   Reference: (July 20, 2004)H http://news.com.com/Sun+ponders+Solaris+for+Power%2C+Itanium/2100-1016_3
 -5277375.html ( "Sun ponders Solaris for Power, Itanium"  E [...snip] "Solaris is working on Itanium servers in the lab, Schwartz  said."  A Why is Fujitsu (Sun's big Solaris partner) now also doing Itanium  servers?=20   C July 20, 2004: Fujitsu Expands Itanium-Based Product Portfolio With # PRIMERGY RXI300 Two-Way Rack Server H http://www.computers.us.fujitsu.com/www/news.shtml?aboutus/pressreleases
 /pr_072004=20 C "64-bit Intel Itanium 2 Processor Offers Data Center Performance at  Tremendous Value=20   B SUNNYVALE, Calif. - July 20, 2004 - Fujitsu Computer Systems todayB rolled out a new 64-bit dual-processor Intel(r) Itanium(tm) 2 rack@ server, extending its Itanium-based product portfolio. Ideal forH space-constrained data centers, the new PRIMERGY(r) RXI300 server is twoB height units (2U) and accommodates one or two Itanium 2 processorsH operating at 1.40 GHz, 1.50 GHz or 1.60 GHz. The cost-effective 1.40 GHzD and 1.60 GHz processors are optimized for dual-processor servers andC incorporate a 3 MB third-level cache. The high-performance 1.50 GHz C processor, code-named Madison, features a 6 MB third-level cache to & greatly improve processor utilization.  A Fujitsu is a worldwide leader in the Intel(r), Linux, and UNIX(r) D architecture servers with industry leading reliability and extensiveA availability features," said Richard McCormack, vice president of F product and solutions marketing for Fujitsu Computer Systems. "The newH Itanium-based PRIMERGY RXI300 server further demonstrates our commitmentE to offer a broad range of solutions so our customers can tackle their / most demanding business-critical applications."    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2004 13:13:07 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <2p8qb3Fho65iU1@uni-berlin.de>  | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFEF5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: > ( > Andrew - help me understand something. > ? > If the Itanium chip is such a bad design, why is Sun publicly 3 > contemplating releasing Solaris on this platform?  >   C C'mon Kerry.  Even I can answer that.  For the same reason why they A do Solaris on x86 and not just Sparc.  Because it's what at least B some of their customers want and pleasing their customers is worth the added expense and effort.   C > Why is Fujitsu (Sun's big Solaris partner) now also doing Itanium 
 > servers?   Same answer as above,     4 Maybe HP should learn something from this example.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:08:12 +0100 9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???0 Message-ID: <cgnbnu$2vh$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   >>-----Original Message-----C >>From: Andrew Harrison [mailto:andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com]   >>Sent: August 27, 2004 5:28 AM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + >>Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent... ???  >> >  >  > [snip...]  >  > D >>You are right, Alpha was/is a good CPU let down by packaging which6 >>except for a few honourable exceptions sucked rocks. >>C >>Itanium seems to be an indifferent CPU unless you count being 4th E >>fastest on Integer behind Opteron, Xeon, Power4 and 2and fastest on @ >>FP for single CPU workloads as something other than mid table. >>B >>Worse this mid table possition slides even further if you have aA >>whiff of SMP involved and Itanium slides back to 5th on Integer  >>and 4th on FP. >>7 >>Put an app on there and the position worsens further.  >>F >>Or put another way the Itanium package like the Alpha package beforeB >>it sucks because this is exactly what happened with Alpha boxes. >>7 >>Frontside is not a bus that is designed to assist you 7 >>building large SMP systems (SGI will vouch for that).  >>@ >>Couple that with a large system infrastructure where your best= >>server has a bisectional bandwidth which is 1/2 that of the = >>slowest competitors, a tiny application portfolio, confused B >>marketing messages, a pissed off customer base for your existing0 >>systems and you have Alphacide all over again. >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrison  >> >> >  > ) > Andrew - help me understand something.   > ? > If the Itanium chip is such a bad design, why is Sun publicly 4 > contemplating releasing Solaris on this platform?  >   ? What would porting Solaris to Itanium have to do with Itanium's  design ?  = Solaris runs on x86 des that mean that x86 is a good design ?    Of course not.  ; Linux runs on Itanium does that mean that Linus thinks that  Itanium is a good design.   ? Of course not in fact Linus is on record as saying that Itanium  sucks.  A You need to think about the market and in particular Linux rather E than trying to second guess what Sun thinks of Itanium as a platform.   > What OS runs on SPARC, x86, x86-64, Itanium and POWER ? (apart obviously from FreeBSD) ?    > Reference: (July 20, 2004)J > http://news.com.com/Sun+ponders+Solaris+for+Power%2C+Itanium/2100-1016_3 > -5277375.html * > "Sun ponders Solaris for Power, Itanium" > G > [...snip] "Solaris is working on Itanium servers in the lab, Schwartz  > said." > C > Why is Fujitsu (Sun's big Solaris partner) now also doing Itanium  > servers?   >   ? If you can explain why that point supports your argument then I  might bother replying to it.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:12:12 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> * Subject: RE: A whopping 50 percent...  ???9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEHHDLAA.tom@kednos.com>    < -----Original Message-----F < From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]On Behalf Of < Bill Gunshannon ' < Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 6:13 AM  < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + < Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent... ???  <  <  < In articleD < <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFEF5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.1 < net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:  < > * < > Andrew - help me understand something. < > A < > If the Itanium chip is such a bad design, why is Sun publicly 5 < > contemplating releasing Solaris on this platform?  < >  < E < C'mon Kerry.  Even I can answer that.  For the same reason why they C < do Solaris on x86 and not just Sparc.  Because it's what at least D < some of their customers want and pleasing their customers is worth < the added expense and effort.  < E < > Why is Fujitsu (Sun's big Solaris partner) now also doing Itanium  < > servers? <  < Same answer as above,  <  < 4 < Maybe HP should learn something from this example.  : The metaphor that comes to mind concerns baskets and eggs.   <  < bill <  < --L < Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF < bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. < University of Scranton   |@ < Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  <  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2004 13:34:16 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???* Message-ID: <2p8rioFi6j8mU1@uni-berlin.de>  9 In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEHHDLAA.tom@kednos.com>, & 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: >  >  > < -----Original Message-----H > < From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]On Behalf Of > < Bill Gunshannon ) > < Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 6:13 AM  > < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - > < Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent... ???  > <  > <  > < In articleF > < <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFEF5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.3 > < net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:  > < > , > < > Andrew - help me understand something. > < > C > < > If the Itanium chip is such a bad design, why is Sun publicly 7 > < > contemplating releasing Solaris on this platform?  > < >  > < G > < C'mon Kerry.  Even I can answer that.  For the same reason why they E > < do Solaris on x86 and not just Sparc.  Because it's what at least F > < some of their customers want and pleasing their customers is worth! > < the added expense and effort.  > < G > < > Why is Fujitsu (Sun's big Solaris partner) now also doing Itanium  > < > servers? > <  > < Same answer as above,  > <  > < 6 > < Maybe HP should learn something from this example. > < > The metaphor that comes to mind concerns baskets and eggs.   @ There's that too, but I was thinking more along the lines of the@ well publicized x86 Solaris incident where Sun announced the EOLC of x86 Solaris but when their customers said "Please don't do that" D they reversed their decision demonstrating a customer responsiveness, that I am sure many here find lacking in HP.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:31:11 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <412F6FDF.8050909@tsoft-inc.com>   Andrew Harrison wrote:   > David Froble wrote:  >  >>> Kenneth Farmer wrote:  >> > I >> How good or bad the itanic was, is, and becomes isn't the real issue,   >> at least for me.  >>G >> Starting with DEC, and the painful path to HP, I've always had this  D >> issue.  With VAX and Alpha under the control of the same company C >> providing VMS there has never been an issue with VMS losing the  H >> hardware on which it ran.  Once the hardware was abandoned, the fate - >> of VMS depends upon whoever makes the CPU.  >>B >> Alpha was the best CPU.  I doubt many will question this.  Not 9 >> speaking for him, (and who could since he never quits  I >> talking/posting), but even Andrew might admit that the CPU itself was  H >> great.  We won't get into packaging of the CPU. Regardless, Alpha is . >> no more, as far as the future is concerned. >> > D > You are right, Alpha was/is a good CPU let down by packaging which6 > except for a few honourable exceptions sucked rocks.    P Note that the EV7 developers addressed this issue, by placing stuff on the chip O and bypassing the system developers.  I've always wondered if this caused them  L to turn on Alpha.  Then again, it could have just been trying to keep their K jobs.  The itanic in it's current form would seem to cause a need for good  G system developers.  I also think I read a while back that those system  L developers who turned against Alpha were given their appropriate reward for  being good company men, the AX.   O I've not tried to keep up with the latest Alpha systems.  But from some of the  L things you've said, it appears that the on-chip SMP glue and on-chip memory K controllers may have shown their worth.  Don't know what else would keep a  P 3-year old processor running with the rest of the pack, and beating the itanic. 0   Well, the last isn't quite as astounding.  :-)    C > Itanium seems to be an indifferent CPU unless you count being 4th E > fastest on Integer behind Opteron, Xeon, Power4 and 2and fastest on @ > FP for single CPU workloads as something other than mid table. > B > Worse this mid table possition slides even further if you have aA > whiff of SMP involved and Itanium slides back to 5th on Integer  > and 4th on FP. > 7 > Put an app on there and the position worsens further.  > F > Or put another way the Itanium package like the Alpha package beforeB > it sucks because this is exactly what happened with Alpha boxes. > 7 > Frontside is not a bus that is designed to assist you 7 > building large SMP systems (SGI will vouch for that).  > @ > Couple that with a large system infrastructure where your best= > server has a bisectional bandwidth which is 1/2 that of the = > slowest competitors, a tiny application portfolio, confused B > marketing messages, a pissed off customer base for your existing0 > systems and you have Alphacide all over again. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >  >  > G >> If the itanic never becomes profitable for Intel, what have they to  J >> lose by dropping it?  Not much.  The big losers will be you and me and B >> the rest of those who continue to believe that VMS is the best ! >> commercial OS available today.  >>G >> That's my issues with the itanic.  In my opinion the EPIC based CPU  J >> will never touch IBM's OOO Power architecture.  Thus, except for a few D >> things that it may do well, it will not succeed at the top end.  @ >> Opteron will kill it below the top end, and maybe even there. >>J >> It may be adequate for most VMS users.  I hope it is.  I hope it stays H >> around. But if it doesn't, the actions of some idiots and Intel will * >> have hurt VMS very much, maybe fatally. >> >> Dave  >> >        --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:22:16 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <412F6DC8.4010103@tsoft-inc.com>   John Smith wrote:    > David Froble wrote:  >  >>>Kenneth Farmer wrote: >>>  >>> G >>>>Dumped VMS for HP-UX.  Now that deserves a laugh.  Wonder if he had  >>>>anything >>>>to do with that decision.  >>>>C >>>>Itanium2 isn't that bad.  The rx2600 I have performs very well,  >>>>it's a nice > >>>>machine.  I wonder how many people that spend so much time* >>>>criticizing Itanium actually have one. >>>>G >>How good or bad the itanic was, is, and becomes isn't the real issue,  >>at least for me. >>E >>Starting with DEC, and the painful path to HP, I've always had this B >>issue.  With VAX and Alpha under the control of the same companyA >>providing VMS there has never been an issue with VMS losing the F >>hardware on which it ran.  Once the hardware was abandoned, the fate, >>of VMS depends upon whoever makes the CPU. >>@ >>Alpha was the best CPU.  I doubt many will question this.  Not7 >>speaking for him, (and who could since he never quits G >>talking/posting), but even Andrew might admit that the CPU itself was F >>great.  We won't get into packaging of the CPU. Regardless, Alpha is- >>no more, as far as the future is concerned.  >>E >>If the itanic never becomes profitable for Intel, what have they to D >>lose by dropping it?  Not much.  The big losers will be you and meD >>and the rest of those who continue to believe that VMS is the best  >>commercial OS available today. >>E >>That's my issues with the itanic.  In my opinion the EPIC based CPU D >>will never touch IBM's OOO Power architecture.  Thus, except for aE >>few things that it may do well, it will not succeed at the top end. ? >>Opteron will kill it below the top end, and maybe even there.  >>B >>It may be adequate for most VMS users.  I hope it is.  I hope itG >>stays around. But if it doesn't, the actions of some idiots and Intel . >>will have hurt VMS very much, maybe fatally. >> >  > F > Which idiots? I have my list of the usual suspects. Care to add any?    # Well the list is long and glorious.     Q I'd start with the VMS people who alienated the Unix people at DEC, thus causing  L DEC to splinter.  Then on to (target drone pilot) Palmer, but at least with M Palmer you knew where he stood.  Curly, as well as being an idiot is also an  P outright liar.  Then there's HP, and if Curly ever told any truths, Carly had a  hand in killing Alpha.    J > Even if Itanic sticks around for a while, as long as it does not provideK > leading price/performance or better performance at only a *slight* (5% or K > so) price premium, it will not gain sales at the expense of Power or even N > the forthcoming Sparcs. This does not bode well for VMS, for it will be onlyN > existing customers and extremely few new customers who will opt to stay with > VMS if it is not competitive.     M Here I disagree.  Performance isn't everything, and with VMS as long as it's RQ usable performance really isn't significant.  There are people still running VAX 5O systems.  If VAX systems were still being produced there would be repeat sales OQ to these people, several times over.  Possibly a serious number would never have sQ moved to Alpha.  The number of VAX models could be small.  Improvements (or just nQ continuing with the last N-VAX) could just be process shrinks, or more extensive   if revenues dictated such.  I Competitive is partly based upon user needs.  If the features of VMS are  O paramount, and customers have working solutions, bleeding edge performance are S@ minor.  Reasonably keeping up with other CPUs would be relavent.  - > And that doesn't even factor the likelihoodaM > that HP will continue to price VMS itself at a significant premium to PH-UXV > and Linux based systems.    O There could be some milking of the VMS cow, but not like what occured with VAX   systems in the late 1990s.    N > As you mentioned, Opteron will probably eat Itanic's  lunch from the low endL > and it will be the Intel BOD whose obligations are to Intel's shareholdersL > and not to HP's management which will ultimately drive Intel's decision toL > pull the plug on Itanic. They'll pull an HP and run the fab to stockpile aM > few extra chips (a la EV7z) and then shut the line down. When that happens, M > HP will be stuck competing against Dell solely as a Billy box pusher unlesswI > HP decides to port all their enterprise operating systems to Opteron orn > Power. > E > But by then it would be too late to ramp up EV8 or beyond using thed5 > intellectual property it is alleged they still own.t    Q It was stated rather clearly 3 years ago that Compaq kept ownership of the Alpha - design, patents, and such.    D > Recognize that I don't have any firsthand knowledge about the nextN > statement, I have my doubts about HP still owning any rights to Alpha. ThereH > was the Compaq 2001 'donation'/license to Intel but since the chip hasB > really not undergone any further development and is deemed to beM > non-strategic and retired (stockpiled EV7z and the line shut down or nearlyoL > so), I would not be surprised if HP has sold the rights to Intel for $1 asH > an accounting cleanup exercise and as way to claim a tax loss. I don'tJ > believe that the 1997 FTC settlement holds any longer and any accountingK > exercise is probably not a significant enough event to even be noted as aaG > minor footnote in any of HP's SEC filings or reports to shareholders.d   Dave     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road- Vanderbilt, PA  15486a   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 09:55:19 -0700& From: jwparker@sfasu.edu (John Parker)$ Subject: Re: CSWS and jserv problems= Message-ID: <229a787c.0408270855.7325da7a@posting.google.com>y  > This doesn't seem to be drawing a lot of attention.  If anyone= reads this and thinks this should be posted elsewhere, pleaseA let me know.  < A little additional information.  If I look at the status of: the servlet engine, it says that the max connections is 5. How can I increase this?   Thanks,    John    k jwparker@sfasu.edu (John Parker) wrote in message news:<229a787c.0408251930.3dcf5bd3@posting.google.com>...C
 > OpenVMS 7.32
 > CSWS 1.2 > ApacheJserv/1.1t > 7 > I see the following errors in my mod_jserv.log.  I am 8 > using the default settings for jserv.  Can anyone tell8 > me what's going on here and what I can do to keep this: > from happening?  We are in the middle of a time when the7 > use of jserv spikes quite a bit higher than normal.  e > 9 > Could this also be a result of some kind of attack?  Ife9 > so how can I determine where the attack is coming from?) >  > ' > [25/08/2004 17:30:58:385] (EMERGENCY) . > ajp12[1]: cannot scan servlet headers  (500) > # > [25/08/2004 17:30:58:437] (ERROR)W: > an error returned handling request via protocol "ajpv12" > ' > [25/08/2004 17:30:59:080] (EMERGENCY)-/ > ajp12: can not connect to host 127.0.0.1:8007  > ' > [25/08/2004 17:30:59:126] (EMERGENCY): > ajp12: connection fail >  > 	 > Thanks,< >  > John   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 00:23:11 -07002 From: harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi (Harri Klemetti)2 Subject: DCE: Initialization (get bindings) failed= Message-ID: <472dc69e.0408262323.4cd0ebfa@posting.google.com>a   Hi,   F I'm trying to get DCE (in RPC_only mode) running in a new DS25 machine with OpenVMS 7.3-2 and DCE 3.1.t  B DCE$DCED process will not start; in the .OUT file there comes this error:& "Initialization (get bindings) failed"   What can I do?   BR,i       Harri Klemetti     ABB Oy, Helsinki, FINLANDn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:01:50 +0100m9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com>d' Subject: Re: Divide instruction in IA64m0 Message-ID: <cgmta3$rii$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  
 CJT wrote: > Michael Kraemer wrote: > B >> In article <BOlXc.8789$Er4.3266@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan  >> <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:a >>E >>> Actually, the architecture provides an instruction that gives an n> >>> approximation of a reciprocal most of the time.  When the F >>> approximation is provided, the compiler generates additional code G >>> that performs 3 iterations of a Newton method.  In the cases where lI >>> the instruction cannot provide an approximiation that converges with  G >>> 3 iterations, it traps to a handler in the OS that does the divide vH >>> another way (not sure if it uses a different algorithm or just does I >>> more iterations).  The handler is provided by Intel is appears to be i' >>> highly optimized Itanium assembler.o >> >> >>@ >> I seem to remember that in the early 80s there was a company, >> Floating Point Systems, s >  > + > ...eventually bought by Sun, as I recall.h >   7 Sort of, FPS was bought by Cray and oddly since FPS hadi8 majored on HPC systems they became the nucleus of Cray's Business Systems Division.  7 BSD was the bit of Cray which developed the CRS6400 andm: the E10K and when SGI purchased Cray the BSD unit was sold to Sun for a knock down price.   Regardst Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:34:50 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>uM Subject: Re: Figures on Itanic migration plans by HP-UX, VMS, and Tru64 users , Message-ID: <412E1124.117A92A5@teksavvy.com>  ' Not sure if this is the right thread...a  p > http://news.com.com/Newisys+paves+way+for+16-%2C+32-chip+Opteron+servers/2100-1006_3-5323996.html?tag=nefd.hed  M This company has developped a chip that will allow 32 CPU opterons to be tied J together. 4 Opteron CPUs together along with that chip which will act as aN memory controller to ensure cache replication across 8 more such quad modules,( each equipped with 4 CPUs and that chip.  M Currently, AMD's Opteron is capable of having up to 8 CPUs tied together withb/ each chip having its cache updated by all CPUs.y  K Also, both AMD and Intel have annoucned that their dual core offerings next1L year (Opteron and Pentium/Xeon/whatever) will have separate chaches for each& core, thus greatly simplifying design.  G IBM's Power 4 release much time ago has a unique chache for both cores,lJ allowing greater performance due to no need for synchronisation of caches,N thus almost doubling cache capacity compared to an essentially mirrored cache.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:17:27 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>mE Subject: Re: How many key pieces of VMS infrastructure depend on BEA?h' Message-ID: <412EE007.575E72AC@aaa.com>   ? Isn't the most widely used BEA product for VMS "BEA MessageQ" ?h= What once was "DEC MessageQ" or "DMQ" (and still is as far asi( logical names and such is concerned...).  D For those who don't know, DMQ/BMQ a real nice, fast and light-weight integratin/connectivity tool..._  	 Jan-Erik.c   David Froble wrote:p >  > John Smith wrote:V > F > > Say Sun buys them and phases out the VMS flavors of applications &, > > tools......where does that leave VMS...? > Q > I'd say that a large part of that question depends upon the types of VMS users.eM >   What percentage are looking for such tools, vs what percentage run customeO > applications.  I've no idea, but, my very minor experience is that the custom Q > solutions and VMS fit together well.  The robust development environment of VMSc= > is some part of why VMS is well suited to custom solutions.t >  > Dave >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Roadn > Vanderbilt, PA  15486l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:04:05 +0100s< From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: HP Away5 Message-ID: <412f0718$0$6171$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>c   <SNIP>- >> >> > May be with the Itanium Blades we can  >> >> > have a good surprise ! >> >> >- >> >> >c >> >> > Regardse >> >> >t
 >> >> > FC >> >>r >> >>t >> >> Fabio, >> >>tJ >> >> Can you phone Servix in Brazil (they sell Itanium and Alphas) on 11 
 >> >> 3619H >> >> 3414 please? Get a quote for a rx1600, they are 1U high. I really  >> >> woulds >> >> beD >> >> interested to know how much one would be from them, I want to  >> >> understand	 >> >> theeE >> >> scale of the high import charges you have previously mentioned.h >> >>oK >> >> Post back here the cost, go for an entry level config, 1 CPU and 1GB   >> >> of
 >> >> RAM. >> >>b >> >> Thanks >> >>t
 >> >> Alex >> > >> > >> > Ok Alex >> >B >> > Wait a few hours ! :-) By the way I know  another reseller in? >> > Brazil: www.decatron.com.br ! They are in Rio de Janeiro !  >> > May I quote them ?  >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > FCy >>	 >> Fabio,n >>K >> Yes why not get a quote from them too, I like their name with DEC in it,hH >> although unlike Servix  they are not mentioning VMS on their website  >> (from$ >> admittedly a quick look through). >>	 >> Cheerse >> >> Alext >I receive one quote:I >iA >HP Integrity rx1600 with 1 CPU Itanium2 (1.1 GHz) , 1 GB of mem,iA >1 disk ( 36 GB 10K RPM) , Linux, 1 year of support Plus HP 24x7.l >"
 >US$ 7.244,00  >n >Obs: The 24x7 is mandatory !p >e > Alex ! Are u there ? >, > RX1600 !  US$ 6.733,00 >t  K Sorry for the delay. I just priced up a similar config on the HP website ( n http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=amp;&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=1784&LowBaseId=&LowPrice=&jumpid=re_hphqwwservers_IntBuy/rx1600/HomeBuyBtn )  K I priced a 1Mhz CPU though not 1.1Mhz, 1GB mem, 1 36GIG Disk, 1 management s% processor and 1yr 24x7 linux support..  F Came out at USD $5200, the linux support was a notable amount of this.  H So looks like the difference between the US and Brazil is around $1500, I doesn't seem the 'high import charges in Brazil' are quite as bad as you t have made out!!i  J Is the lower of the quotes you got, for what is a pretty nice spec for an 8 entry level machine, really so much for companies there?   Cheers   Alex     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:57:46 +0100m9 From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_._remove_harrison@su_n.com>  Subject: Re: HP Away0 Message-ID: <cgnb4c$2o1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Alex Daniels wrote:i > <SNIP> > + >>>>>>May be with the Itanium Blades we cans >>>>>>have a good surprise ! >>>>>> >>>>>>
 >>>>>>Regardse >>>>>> >>>>>>FC >>>>>f >>>>>h >>>>>Fabio,  >>>>>eI >>>>>Can you phone Servix in Brazil (they sell Itanium and Alphas) on 11 w	 >>>>>3619tG >>>>>3414 please? Get a quote for a rx1600, they are 1U high. I really i
 >>>>>would >>>>>be C >>>>>interested to know how much one would be from them, I want to   >>>>>understando >>>>>theD >>>>>scale of the high import charges you have previously mentioned. >>>>>bJ >>>>>Post back here the cost, go for an entry level config, 1 CPU and 1GB  >>>>>ofd	 >>>>>RAM.5 >>>>>n >>>>>Thankst >>>>>.	 >>>>>Alexa >>>> >>>> >>>>Ok Alexi >>>>A >>>>Wait a few hours ! :-) By the way I know  another reseller inl> >>>>Brazil: www.decatron.com.br ! They are in Rio de Janeiro ! >>>>May I quote them ? >>>> >>>>Regardsb >>>> >>>>FC >>> 	 >>>Fabio,o >>>uK >>>Yes why not get a quote from them too, I like their name with DEC in it,rH >>>although unlike Servix  they are not mentioning VMS on their website  >>>(from$ >>>admittedly a quick look through). >>>t	 >>>Cheerst >>>o >>>Alexc >> >>I receive one quote: >>B >>HP Integrity rx1600 with 1 CPU Itanium2 (1.1 GHz) , 1 GB of mem,B >>1 disk ( 36 GB 10K RPM) , Linux, 1 year of support Plus HP 24x7. >> >>US$ 7.244,00 >> >>Obs: The 24x7 is mandatory ! >> >>Alex ! Are u there ? >> >>RX1600 !  US$ 6.733,00 >> >  > M > Sorry for the delay. I just priced up a similar config on the HP website ( c > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=amp;&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=1784&LowBaseId=&LowPrice=&jumpid=re_hphqwwservers_IntBuy/rx1600/HomeBuyBtn ) > M > I priced a 1Mhz CPU though not 1.1Mhz, 1GB mem, 1 36GIG Disk, 1 management l' > processor and 1yr 24x7 linux support.e >    I think you mean GHz.     H > Came out at USD $5200, the linux support was a notable amount of this. > J > So looks like the difference between the US and Brazil is around $1500, K > doesn't seem the 'high import charges in Brazil' are quite as bad as you a > have made out!!4 > L > Is the lower of the quotes you got, for what is a pretty nice spec for an : > entry level machine, really so much for companies there? >   9 Seems horribly expensive compared with what you could gete7 for $52000 elsewhere particularly if it is only a 1 MHzv unit :-)   Regards2 Andrew Harrisont > Cheers >  > Alex o >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 06:40:51 -0700. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso) Subject: Re: HP Away= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0408270540.7538de2e@posting.google.com>s  y "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote in message news:<412f0718$0$6171$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>..., > <SNIP>/ > >> >> > May be with the Itanium Blades we cank  > >> >> > have a good surprise !	 > >> >> >0	 > >> >> >h > >> >> > Regardsi	 > >> >> >v > >> >> > FC > >> >>a > >> >>  > >> >> Fabio, > >> >>uL > >> >> Can you phone Servix in Brazil (they sell Itanium and Alphas) on 11  > >> >> 3619J > >> >> 3414 please? Get a quote for a rx1600, they are 1U high. I really 
 > >> >> wouldg
 > >> >> beF > >> >> interested to know how much one would be from them, I want to  > >> >> understand > >> >> thedG > >> >> scale of the high import charges you have previously mentioned.t > >> >>=M > >> >> Post back here the cost, go for an entry level config, 1 CPU and 1GB h
 > >> >> of > >> >> RAM. > >> >>  > >> >> Thanks > >> >>s > >> >> Alex > >> > > >> > > >> > Ok Alex > >> >D > >> > Wait a few hours ! :-) By the way I know  another reseller inA > >> > Brazil: www.decatron.com.br ! They are in Rio de Janeiro !  > >> > May I quote them ?= > >> > > >> > Regards > >> >	 > >> > FC. > >> > >> Fabio,i > >>M > >> Yes why not get a quote from them too, I like their name with DEC in it,nJ > >> although unlike Servix  they are not mentioning VMS on their website 
 > >> (from& > >> admittedly a quick look through). > >> > >> Cheersn > >>	 > >> AlexP > >I receive one quote:p > >lC > >HP Integrity rx1600 with 1 CPU Itanium2 (1.1 GHz) , 1 GB of mem,hC > >1 disk ( 36 GB 10K RPM) , Linux, 1 year of support Plus HP 24x7.v > >2 > >US$ 7.244,000 > >j > >Obs: The 24x7 is mandatory !t > >f > > Alex ! Are u there ? > >- > > RX1600 !  US$ 6.733,00 > >u > M > Sorry for the delay. I just priced up a similar config on the HP website ( n > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=amp;&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=1784&LowBaseId=&LowPrice=&jumpid=re_hphqwwservers_IntBuy/rx1600/HomeBuyBtn ) > M > I priced a 1Mhz CPU though not 1.1Mhz, 1GB mem, 1 36GIG Disk, 1 management t' > processor and 1yr 24x7 linux support.c > H > Came out at USD $5200, the linux support was a notable amount of this. > J > So looks like the difference between the US and Brazil is around $1500, K > doesn't seem the 'high import charges in Brazil' are quite as bad as you u > have made out!!s > L > Is the lower of the quotes you got, for what is a pretty nice spec for an : > entry level machine, really so much for companies there? >  > Cheers >  > Alex   Alex.z  > This is the lower price I quoted. But .. in the link above the4 system have 2 CPUs and I quoted 1 CPU + 1 GB only ! ) Is the USA price right for this system ? a   Regardsd   FC   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 06:47:00 -07001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)R! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survivedt= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0408270547.61cf440f@posting.google.com>r  F One of the big things from the OpenVMS SIG meeting was how the OpenVMSA SIG can impact the OpenVMS Sessions at the New Orleans event nextaF September.  If you want to be an agent of change join the SIG (now howC is that for almost marketing)!!!  See I could do it if I tried ;') aE Join the SIG there are three Encompass SIG's (Special Intrest Groups)-E OpenVMS (my favorite), UNIX and Storage.  Check out the encompass webe? page.  The VMS SIG has several projects this year, this is one, @ another is on an unannounced product that they saw demoed in the* campground and there were a couple others.  
 Warm Regards,, Suen    e David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<41266B37.2304EF83@comcast.net>...iJ > Count me among those now reclining with sore legs and blistered feet who6 > survived HPworld-2004 at McCormick Place in Chicago. > H > A very large vote of thanks to all who made it possible, and those whoI > made it possible for me to participate. I only wish I had more to bring  > to the table.s > I > Watch for the next event in Sept 2005 in New Orleans. I'll be polishingaJ > up this year's presentations (changes were made on the fly) for the web," > and planning sessions to submit. > J > A good possibility right now is likely to be "DCL Programming for SystemJ > Administrators", based partially on stuff I saw this year, but mostly onD > real-life stuff I use every day, including freeware (DCL proc.'s). >  > Suggestions are welcome... i >  > D.J.D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:04:44 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Surviveds0 Message-ID: <0cHXc.8900$0v5.93@news.cpqcorp.net>  ` In article <412D4817.1D4D6C85@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >sH >I'll also be researching AmTrak's schedules to see if surface transportB >might be an option should the airlines be grounded by threatening	 >weather.   A I've traveled to and from New Orleans several times by train: thewA last was the day after 9/11, when trains were the only way to get>A anywhere (I had planned from the beginning to use the train, so I E had reservations.  Amtrak really packed the train as much as possible C to get as many people transported as they could.)  I find it a good B way to travel, though it's not for people in a great hurry.  AfterA New York and Chicago, New Orleans is relatively well connected by C train, with routes to the East (Florida), North East (Atlanta, D.C.fF and New York), North (Chicago), and West (Texas and on to California).  ? I've also been in New Orleans when there were floods.  Downtown ? N.O. was o.k., but staff for the hotel couldn't get in from thes outlying areas.i  9 Personally, I'm not worried about hurricanes or floods ine7 September: at least, not enough to keep me away from an 
 event in N.O.b   -- n(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:09:20 GMThF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survivedt0 Message-ID: <kgHXc.8901$0v5.10@news.cpqcorp.net>  \ In article <412D4CEA.DDF2874C@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  L >A few years ago, when a hurricane was about to hit Florida and with advanceN >evacuation notice (remember when they closed the eastbound lanes of a highwayH >so that westbound traffic could use them ?). Guess who was first to cutK >service: AMTRAK. Airlines stopped flying well after Amtrak cancelled theiro >trains to florida.   : Keep in mind that in the U.S., outside of a few areas like? portions of the NorthEast corridor and some tracks in Michigan,i= Amtrak is totally dependant upon the host (freight) railroad.n? If they close the tracks, which is probably what happened here,k( there is nothing Amtrak can do about it.  A I've never had Amtrak cancel a train on their own account becausesA of the weather: only when the host railroad closed the tracks, oroD when something happened that really made it impossible (tracks under% several feet of water, snow, or mud).-  A Not that Amtrak is perfect, but my experience with them over manyT1 years is that they do keep trying to get through.n   -- r(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.n   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2004 15:03:20 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survivedi* Message-ID: <2p90poFid80tU1@uni-berlin.de>  0 In article <0cHXc.8900$0v5.93@news.cpqcorp.net>,I 	lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes:  > E >                                                    I find it a goodtD > way to travel, though it's not for people in a great hurry.  AfterC > New York and Chicago, New Orleans is relatively well connected bypE > train, with routes to the East (Florida), North East (Atlanta, D.C. H > and New York), North (Chicago), and West (Texas and on to California).  B I researched traveling by train to San Antonio last fall because IB was hoping to go to a conference there.  The train would have costA more than either flying or driving.  It couldn't beat flying timeoB and it wasn't going to beat driving by all that much.  Having usedD rail travel a lot when I lived in Europe I really miss it.  If thereE was local rail between where I live and where I work (about 20 miles) @ I would never drive my car.  But, the last time someone tried toD offer this kind of service it was un-reliable and cost over a dollarD a mile.  I fear the US will never see rail travel like Europe again.  - bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:22:45 -0400-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ! Subject: Re: HPworld - I SurvivedH, Message-ID: <7pGdnT5bQ_tQzLLcRVn-jw@igs.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <0cHXc.8900$0v5.93@news.cpqcorp.net>,B > lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)	 > writes:  >>F >>                                                    I find it a goodE >> way to travel, though it's not for people in a great hurry.  After D >> New York and Chicago, New Orleans is relatively well connected byF >> train, with routes to the East (Florida), North East (Atlanta, D.C.< >> and New York), North (Chicago), and West (Texas and on to >> California).  >aD > I researched traveling by train to San Antonio last fall because ID > was hoping to go to a conference there.  The train would have costC > more than either flying or driving.  It couldn't beat flying timeuD > and it wasn't going to beat driving by all that much.  Having usedF > rail travel a lot when I lived in Europe I really miss it.  If thereG > was local rail between where I live and where I work (about 20 miles)nB > I would never drive my car.  But, the last time someone tried toF > offer this kind of service it was un-reliable and cost over a dollarF > a mile.  I fear the US will never see rail travel like Europe again.      Maybe when oil hits $100/barrel.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:24:20 -0400e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>u! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived , Message-ID: <ao6dne1jOb-xz7LcRVn-pQ@igs.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <0cHXc.8900$0v5.93@news.cpqcorp.net>,B > lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)	 > writes:o >>F >>                                                    I find it a goodE >> way to travel, though it's not for people in a great hurry.  After D >> New York and Chicago, New Orleans is relatively well connected byF >> train, with routes to the East (Florida), North East (Atlanta, D.C.< >> and New York), North (Chicago), and West (Texas and on to >> California).- >.D > I researched traveling by train to San Antonio last fall because ID > was hoping to go to a conference there.  The train would have costC > more than either flying or driving.  It couldn't beat flying timenD > and it wasn't going to beat driving by all that much.  Having usedF > rail travel a lot when I lived in Europe I really miss it.  If thereG > was local rail between where I live and where I work (about 20 miles) B > I would never drive my car.  But, the last time someone tried toF > offer this kind of service it was un-reliable and cost over a dollarF > a mile.  I fear the US will never see rail travel like Europe again.    F Or maybe when all the middle-class jobs have been outsourced to India,I China, Pakistan, Phillipines, etc... and nobody here can afford their car  payments any longer.   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2004 16:23:49 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Surviveda* Message-ID: <2p95glFi9af6U1@uni-berlin.de>  , In article <7pGdnT5bQ_tQzLLcRVn-jw@igs.net>,& 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:3 >> In article <0cHXc.8900$0v5.93@news.cpqcorp.net>,oC >> lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)h
 >> writes: >>>iG >>>                                                    I find it a gooddF >>> way to travel, though it's not for people in a great hurry.  AfterE >>> New York and Chicago, New Orleans is relatively well connected by G >>> train, with routes to the East (Florida), North East (Atlanta, D.C.t= >>> and New York), North (Chicago), and West (Texas and on to  >>> California). >>E >> I researched traveling by train to San Antonio last fall because IrE >> was hoping to go to a conference there.  The train would have costwD >> more than either flying or driving.  It couldn't beat flying timeE >> and it wasn't going to beat driving by all that much.  Having usedtG >> rail travel a lot when I lived in Europe I really miss it.  If thereoH >> was local rail between where I live and where I work (about 20 miles)C >> I would never drive my car.  But, the last time someone tried tovG >> offer this kind of service it was un-reliable and cost over a dollar G >> a mile.  I fear the US will never see rail travel like Europe again.o >  > " > Maybe when oil hits $100/barrel.  wD What do you think the trains run on?  Granted, we still have a smokyE old engine burning bituminous and trying to impress the tourists, butn0 all the real trains that go by here are diesels.  C And, keep in mind, that although the cost of travel by car is stillhE cheaper the price of consumer gas is artificially high as it is stillnB more tax than product.  That also means that unless the governmentA used the opportunity to rape the taxpayers once again the cost ofoF consumer gas would rise by a lesser percentage than the cost of dieselF for trains who don't pay most of those taxes and pass along the one's $ they do pay to the ticket purchaser.  B And a good reason why you will probably never see the price of rawF petroleum get that far out of hand is if we stop burning gas the ArabsA have to stop driving Mercedes-Benz.  They have no other source of   income and no marketable skills.   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   >   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2004 16:28:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived * Message-ID: <2p95poFi9af6U2@uni-berlin.de>  , In article <ao6dne1jOb-xz7LcRVn-pQ@igs.net>,& 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:3 >> In article <0cHXc.8900$0v5.93@news.cpqcorp.net>, C >> lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)t
 >> writes: >>>-G >>>                                                    I find it a goodrF >>> way to travel, though it's not for people in a great hurry.  AfterE >>> New York and Chicago, New Orleans is relatively well connected bywG >>> train, with routes to the East (Florida), North East (Atlanta, D.C. = >>> and New York), North (Chicago), and West (Texas and on to  >>> California). >>E >> I researched traveling by train to San Antonio last fall because I E >> was hoping to go to a conference there.  The train would have cost D >> more than either flying or driving.  It couldn't beat flying timeE >> and it wasn't going to beat driving by all that much.  Having used G >> rail travel a lot when I lived in Europe I really miss it.  If thereEH >> was local rail between where I live and where I work (about 20 miles)C >> I would never drive my car.  But, the last time someone tried to G >> offer this kind of service it was un-reliable and cost over a dollar G >> a mile.  I fear the US will never see rail travel like Europe again.  >  > H > Or maybe when all the middle-class jobs have been outsourced to India,K > China, Pakistan, Phillipines, etc... and nobody here can afford their carn > payments any longer.  dA I have no car payment.  And when my MG comes back from the garage B in another week or so it will be ready for the next 100,000 miles.  A Add to that the fact that I have two jobs, neither of which is in A jeopardy.  For one you need a security clearance and the other isr@ mostly educating them.  I see no chance in the near (or distant)A future that their schools will improve enough that they will stoph coming here.   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:23:51 -0700># From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a! Subject: RE: HPworld - I Survived>9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEHODLAA.tom@kednos.com>    < -----Original Message-----F < From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]On Behalf Of < Bill Gunshannonr' < Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:24 AMn < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg# < Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survivedg <d <e. < In article <7pGdnT5bQ_tQzLLcRVn-jw@igs.net>,( < 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: < > Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 < >> In article <0cHXc.8900$0v5.93@news.cpqcorp.net>,nE < >> lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)i < >> writes: < >>>eI < >>>                                                    I find it a goodfH < >>> way to travel, though it's not for people in a great hurry.  AfterG < >>> New York and Chicago, New Orleans is relatively well connected byeI < >>> train, with routes to the East (Florida), North East (Atlanta, D.C.e? < >>> and New York), North (Chicago), and West (Texas and on ton < >>> California). < >>G < >> I researched traveling by train to San Antonio last fall because IRG < >> was hoping to go to a conference there.  The train would have costnF < >> more than either flying or driving.  It couldn't beat flying timeG < >> and it wasn't going to beat driving by all that much.  Having usedrI < >> rail travel a lot when I lived in Europe I really miss it.  If thereoJ < >> was local rail between where I live and where I work (about 20 miles)E < >> I would never drive my car.  But, the last time someone tried tocI < >> offer this kind of service it was un-reliable and cost over a dollaraI < >> a mile.  I fear the US will never see rail travel like Europe again.m < >a < > $ < > Maybe when oil hits $100/barrel. <CF < What do you think the trains run on?  Granted, we still have a smokyG < old engine burning bituminous and trying to impress the tourists, but 2 < all the real trains that go by here are diesels.  J European trains are electric.  Of course you need nuclear power to produceK electricity:-)  It costs about 6 times as much to haul one pound of freightsA by truck compared to trains, assuming the trains are also diesel.g <oE < And, keep in mind, that although the cost of travel by car is still G < cheaper the price of consumer gas is artificially high as it is stillpD < more tax than product.  That also means that unless the governmentC < used the opportunity to rape the taxpayers once again the cost ofkH < consumer gas would rise by a lesser percentage than the cost of dieselG < for trains who don't pay most of those taxes and pass along the one's & < they do pay to the ticket purchaser. <aD < And a good reason why you will probably never see the price of rawH < petroleum get that far out of hand is if we stop burning gas the ArabsC < have to stop driving Mercedes-Benz.  They have no other source ofo" < income and no marketable skills. <n < bill <u < --L < Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF < bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. < University of Scranton   |@ < Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> <e < ---s( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  <c ---a& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004d   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2004 16:45:52 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived2* Message-ID: <2p96q0Fin9b5U1@uni-berlin.de>  9 In article <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIEEHODLAA.tom@kednos.com>,d& 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: >  >  > < -----Original Message-----H > < From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]On Behalf Of > < Bill Gunshannonu > <:H > < What do you think the trains run on?  Granted, we still have a smokyI > < old engine burning bituminous and trying to impress the tourists, butI4 > < all the real trains that go by here are diesels. > ! > European trains are electric.  i  K I know, but US trains are not.  Although we had the technology at one time.tI As a matter of fact, Scranton, PA is proudly reclaiming it's old title of F "The Electric City" which was because we had the first electric trollyF system, long since defunct.  But Americans knew about electric trains.< Sadly, we relegated them mostly to under the Christmas tree.  L >                                Of course you need nuclear power to produce > electricity:-)     I have no problem with that.  M >                 It costs about 6 times as much to haul one pound of freighteC > by truck compared to trains, assuming the trains are also diesel.e  G You don't have to sell me.  The rail industry in this country was taxedaG nearly out of existence in order to build a highway freight system.  It I was a bad idea then and it's a bad idea today.  Add to that "Eisenhower's4C Folly" and one can easily see how bad transportation management has1C damaged this country.  And that being said, we're still the countryn6 with the most people trying to come here to live.  :-)   bill   -- YJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   g   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:26:28 GMTr+ From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) ! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived33 Message-ID: <89KXc.28056$Jn5.7554@fe1.texas.rr.com>i  " John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote: : H : Or maybe when all the middle-class jobs have been outsourced to India,' : China, Pakistan, Phillipines, etc... N : 4    http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2004/aug/26bpo.htm/    'All US tech jobs will move out in a decade'e  =    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/786093.cmsn?    Now comes Knowledge Process Outsourcing - The Economic Timesr   : ; : and nobody here can afford their car payments any longer.2 :n  < Maybe people will be able to afford cars from Wal-mart-land:  )    http://makeashorterlink.com/?G266514A8 =    General Motors Officially Launches Cadillac Brand in Chinaa  & The original link, wrapped to 2 lines:  B    http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2004/June-2004/June-2004-2/    June-09-04-p1.htm=    General Motors Officially Launches Cadillac Brand in China      --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaila   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:02:13 +0200 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>A Subject: Re: Installing OpenVMS Alpha on PWS 600au without CD-ROMa* Message-ID: <2p8ilrFhgjskU1@uni-berlin.de>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:Y > In article <2p0dcsFfceqtU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  > D >>And as I experienced last week when my hobbyist licenses expired, G >>without a valid VMSCLUSTER license, VMS will simply shut down during nJ >>startup if it's configured as a cluster. I needed to set the VAXCLUSTER # >>parameter to 0 to get it to boot.K >  >  > Which version ?y >   
 Alpha V7.3-2.d  E > I've never seen such a behaviour and I just set up a bootserver and-F > a satellite without any licenses (ok, I had to enter a OpenVMS-Alpha0 > license on the bootserver to start the LANCP). >   H But I also had the same with a V7.3 VAX booting into the above cluster, I a couple of weeks before that. (Unfortunately when I grabbed the layered  E licenses for that, the ones from nearly a year ago arrived, I didn't sI notice, so got caught by loading expired ones when I rebooted the Alpha.)p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:41:49 +0200t* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Wikipedia entry* Message-ID: <2p8kvuFhhf6sU1@uni-berlin.de>   Bill Todd wrote:9 > "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message & > news:2p2va7FfmrafU1@uni-berlin.de... > K >>I just stumbled across this today, and thought y'all might appreciate it.h >>4 >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Memory_System >  > K > I'll bet you've been lurking over at realworldtech again (at least that'se2 > where I think I saw a reference to it recently). >   I Instead it was the first result returned when I searched Google for "vms e
 96 nodes".   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:02:36 +0000d- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>-$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Wikipedia entry( Message-ID: <412F22DC.70407@bigpond.com>    Paul Sture was overheard to say: > Bill Todd wrote: > : >> "Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message' >> news:2p2va7FfmrafU1@uni-berlin.de...s >>J >>> I just stumbled across this today, and thought y'all might appreciate  >>> it.e >>> 6 >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Memory_System >> >> >>L >> I'll bet you've been lurking over at realworldtech again (at least that's3 >> where I think I saw a reference to it recently).i >> > K > Instead it was the first result returned when I searched Google for "vms t > 96 nodes". >   F I stumbled across a similar, although not as detailed, entry the other day at  N http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/v/vi/virtual_memory_system.html  6 (will probaly wrap) whilst looking for something else.   Regards, Dave.o -- II David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.com I Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/sI DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:26:08 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: PL/I for OpenVMS 8.2A9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECIMEHODLAA.tom@kednos.com>    ANNOUNCEMENT  > PL/I has been successfully installed on OpenVMS 8.2 for Alpha.   www.kednos.com     --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 05:52:59 -0700* From: Anders.Wallin@om.com (Anders Wallin)- Subject: Planned port of freeware to Itanium?6= Message-ID: <79de16e3.0408270452.652f2557@posting.google.com>g   Hello,  D Are there any plans from HP for a port of any of the products on the freeware CD to Itanium?   F The freeware products are very useful and it vould be valuable to have access to them on Itanium also.o   Best Regards  
 Anders Walling   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:02:17 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>>1 Subject: RE: Planned port of freeware to Itanium? R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFF1A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Anders Wallin [mailto:Anders.Wallin@om.com]=20 > Sent: August 27, 2004 8:53 AMt > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come/ > Subject: Planned port of freeware to Itanium?S >=20 > Hello, >=20F > Are there any plans from HP for a port of any of the products on the > freeware CD to Itanium?  >=20H > The freeware products are very useful and it vould be valuable to have! > access to them on Itanium also.  >=20 > Best Regards >=20 > Anders Wallins >=20  = Many OpenVMS freeware pkgs are already available for Itanium:    As an example - check out:J http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv_search.exe?package=3D&de= soD cription=3D&author=3D&system=3DIA64&language=3DAll&RD=3D&RM=3D&RY=3D   RegardsD  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660& Fax: 613-591-4477v Email: kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom . (remove the DOT's and AT for email address)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:53:14 +0200 . From: "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>' Subject: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1e7 Message-ID: <aus-C3B517.14531427082004@news.cis.dfn.de>t  G Is it possible to assign two IP addresses on one NIC on one OVMS 7.2-1?t  H Our hospital network is changing from 141.- to 10.- IP addresses and it I might to nice to have the Alpha recognize both the old and the new until u we've finished the transition.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:23:13 -0400e) From: Andrew Robert <arobert@townisp.com>o+ Subject: Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1>0 Message-ID: <10iugrphvjkm4d7@corp.supernews.com>   Hans M. Aus wrote:I > Is it possible to assign two IP addresses on one NIC on one OVMS 7.2-1?o > J > Our hospital network is changing from 141.- to 10.- IP addresses and it K > might to nice to have the Alpha recognize both the old and the new until i  > we've finished the transition.  1 I am sorry but I do not believe this is possible.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:21:49 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>b+ Subject: Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1r, Message-ID: <412F518C.224254F7@teksavvy.com>   "Hans M. Aus" wrote: > I > Is it possible to assign two IP addresses on one NIC on one OVMS 7.2-1?!  I Yes. But the tough part is figuring out the name of the second interface.   8 On a microvax 3100, VMS 7.2-1, TCP services 5.3, I have:  + SE0 as the primary interface with 10.0.0.10 + SEA0 as the second interface with 10.0.0.15o  L (ok, as it happens, both are in teh same subnet, but they don't have to be).  0 the 3rd interface on that same nic would be SEB0  N I believe that this varies from machine to machine (the naming of interfaces).  6 HELP SET INTERFACE  at the TCPIP PROMPT will help you.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 00:35:28 -0700! From: nyce3000@hotmail.com (Dave),$ Subject: Re: VAX Instruction Timings= Message-ID: <f3598ae1.0408262335.2aec18e3@posting.google.com>   z Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message news:<412e085d$0$19542$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>... > Rob Brown wrote: >  > > On 26 Aug 2004, Dave wrote:1 > >  > > D > >>register by the above site but was unable to locate the requiredG > >>information, ended up in a notes interface, only a VMS hobbyist. Do I > >>you have more information regarding the location of this information.  > >  > > K > > I'm not Bart, but I found it in the Hardware conference in topic 193.   ; > > The topic title is "So: how fast IS your VAX, anyway?".i > >  > >  > Oh! you mean here...P > http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/HARDWARE_HELP/193.0/NEXT_REPLY.HTML > 	 > Cheers!r  F Great news, thanks very much Rob and Keith you have been a great help.C I surpose it would be asking too much to expect to locate a copy ofy the test programs!!!   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:57:04 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>r$ Subject: Re: VAX Instruction TimingsK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408270855310.5531-100000@localhost.localdomain>    On 27 Aug 2004, Dave wrote:   H > Great news, thanks very much Rob and Keith you have been a great help.E > I surpose it would be asking too much to expect to locate a copy ofo > the test programs!!!  5 It is still there in USR_SCRATCH:[LEDERMAN]SPEED.TLB.>     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!>6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)4                                  (780)437-3367 (FAX)1                                  http://gmcl.com/e   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 02:10:35 -0700! From: a_purdie@yahoo.com (andrew)dG Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 availability and VMS internals books in UK = Message-ID: <959db944.0408270110.1e5599f7@posting.google.com>   M just email me if you need a 4000-60 we have a few cluttering up our warehousey      f a_purdie@yahoo.com (andrew) wrote in message news:<959db944.0408240110.417d0e41@posting.google.com>... > Hi,  > H > the Vax4000-60's are pretty inexpensive and pretty numerous the figureD > you mentioned would cover a standard system with a bit of memory &G > standard graphics. The 90's are around  800 and the 96's are roughly H >  2k+ ish from traders as they are still used commercially. There wereG > some funky graphics cards options, dual headers etc which can ramp upr > the price substantially. >  >  >  >  >  > ~ > Tom Garcia <tgarcia@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.08.23.10.13.48.553240@hivemind.NOSPAMTHX.org>...
 > > Hello, > > E > > I'm a relatively new VMS hobbyist (my experience being via remote)K > > shells) looking for a VAXstation on which to fully learn and understandOM > > the VMS platform on its original hardware. My interest as a student is in!2 > > studying the design and engineering of the OS. > > N > > With that in mind I'm hunting for a couple of things. What I've found out: > > H > > 1) Comprehensive VMS internals references. Most suitable seem to be: > > M > > OpenVMS Alpha Internals and Data Structures : Memory Management, GoldbergdE > > OpenVMS Alpha Internals: Scheduling and Process Control, Goldberg I > > (both superseding Vax/Vms Internals and Data Structures Version 5.2 )nN > > Open VMS: Operating System Concepts, Miller (more introductory overview of > > material in first two?)u > > J > > 2) A VAXstation *grin*. My initial thought was simh on Linux on my AMDM > > 2600XP, but I know I'd like to try out solid hardware (as well as save oniM > > power!). I realise most systems are bootable with the latest VMS, but I'deB > > like a system that I can productively *use* as I learn, so wasM > > hunting for the 4000/60 and /9X models. The systems seem much less commonPI > > in UK than US, with a passing quote given to me of 200 (~$360) for a J > > /60 - is this reasonable? eBay hints otherwise, but units seem scarce. > > N > > More general info, in case anyone else is embarking on the same adventure: > > J > > Most important issue is ensuring sufficient memory since non-standard.M > > Graphics board supplied may vary. Booting should be possible via any SCSIVI > > CD-ROM with 512 byte block support. Also required at minimum: consolenI > > cable (DEC MMJ to standard serial 9-pin), and probably AUI-to-10baseTeF > > transceiver to connect to modern Ethernet. If want to use locally,N > > keyboard has MMJ connector and mouse/video not the regular PC type, but itN > > seems success with regular monitor is possible (I have a GDM-1394 with RGB > > BNC connectors, *hopes*):a4 > >  http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.html= > > (for 3100 series, page also gives info on good CD drives)  > >  > > User manuals:nD > >  http://vt100.net/manx/search?cp=1;q=vaxstation+4000;num=20;on=0 > >  > > Speed comparison:e6 > >  http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/vax-perf.html > >  > > Thanks,0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:52:36 +0200w* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: Whither RAID?* Message-ID: <2p8lk9FieqdmU1@uni-berlin.de>   Dr. Dweeb wrote: > John Smith wrote:e > @ >>Any half-assed RAID solution would have probably obviated this1 >>problem. Any half-baked cluster would have too.  >> > 
 > clip --- > C > Not really.  I suggest that a better OS, plus an effective backup"* > implementation might have helped though. > H > I lost a chunk of my mail (amongst other things) when Win2K decided toN > arbitrarily lay waste to some directory structures, files etc.  I now have aJ > RAID-1 version of directories which are destroyed and in which files areN > missing.  Since then, one of my relatively new SATA RAID-1 disks has died as > well (another story).H > N > It is a common mistake to think that RAID-X is some kind of panacea.  Only aM > correct and regular backup strategy can save you from the sort of failure IwG > experienced.  Indeed, it may be exactly this type of failure that thee > article referred to. >   7 In that conext, I found this comment interesting. From:r       "The Horrors of RAID 5  B Using RAID 5 for a high-update Oracle system can be disastrous to G performance, yet many disk vendors continue to push RAID 5 as a viable e% solution for highly updated systems."   . http://www.dba-oracle.com/art_dbazine_disk.htm  : > Now, why Win2K acually went on the rampage I cannot say. >    :-(n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:16:02 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>v Subject: Re: Whither RAID?; Message-ID: <SeIXc.5857$YL.5164@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>C   Paul Sture wrote:r > Dr. Dweeb wrote: >  >> John Smith wrote: >>B >>> Any half-assed RAID solution would have probably obviated this3 >>> problem. Any half-baked cluster would have too.e >>>f >> >> clip ---g >>D >> Not really.  I suggest that a better OS, plus an effective backup+ >> implementation might have helped though.  >>I >> I lost a chunk of my mail (amongst other things) when Win2K decided toPI >> arbitrarily lay waste to some directory structures, files etc.  I now s	 >> have aiK >> RAID-1 version of directories which are destroyed and in which files areUH >> missing.  Since then, one of my relatively new SATA RAID-1 disks has 
 >> died as >> well (another story). >>I >> It is a common mistake to think that RAID-X is some kind of panacea.  E	 >> Only a.E >> correct and regular backup strategy can save you from the sort of   >> failure IH >> experienced.  Indeed, it may be exactly this type of failure that the >> article referred to.k >> > 9 > In that conext, I found this comment interesting. From:t >  >  >  > "The Horrors of RAID 5 > D > Using RAID 5 for a high-update Oracle system can be disastrous to I > performance, yet many disk vendors continue to push RAID 5 as a viable s' > solution for highly updated systems."e > 0 > http://www.dba-oracle.com/art_dbazine_disk.htm  N I would say that this really depends on the vintage and mfgr of your storage. P Some are better than others... I have seen that in UNIX RAID0+1 was faster than O RAID5, but on VMS, I really saw little difference between the two. And on EVA, p it was fast on both.     > ; >> Now, why Win2K acually went on the rampage I cannot say.a >> >  > :-(      -- e Michael Austin.a Consultant - Available.r@ Donations welcomed. Http://www.firstdbasource.com/donations.html :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:25:44 +0100o< From: Andrew Harrison <andrew_remove__s._harrison@s_u_n.com> Subject: Re: Whither RAID?0 Message-ID: <cgnnaa$6r8$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Paul Sture wrote:     9 > In that conext, I found this comment interesting. From:n >  >  >  > "The Horrors of RAID 5 > D > Using RAID 5 for a high-update Oracle system can be disastrous to I > performance, yet many disk vendors continue to push RAID 5 as a viable o' > solution for highly updated systems."  >   @ The operational phrase used here is "can be". RAID 5 performance= can be bad but that depends entirely on the efficiency of theU4 RAID 5 implimentation used by the storage subsystem.  < HDS 99XXX arrays have a very efficient RAID 5 implimentation< so efficient in fact that very few systems ever use RAID 0+1 for improved DBMS performance.  ; On the other hand EMC Symetrix Arrays have something calledt: RAID-S which is EMC's attempt at something like RAID 5 and? it performs terribly for random writes and hence is very seldomd> used for DBMS's in fact EMC's techies move heaven and earth to? persuade you not to use it for anything that looks like a DBMS.g   Regardso Andrew Harrison 0 > http://www.dba-oracle.com/art_dbazine_disk.htm >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:38:05 +0200n. From: "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>8 Subject: Re: [TCPIP] How to configure SMTP outgoing only7 Message-ID: <aus-8E68E6.14380527082004@news.cis.dfn.de>   1 In article <newscache$ahgfyh$g2o1$1@news.sil.at>,u8  peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote:  I > You may know, that I'm not the expert in TCPIP SMTP (since I use MX ando+ > also TCPware) so thought I ask here, too:e > 2 > Is it possible to run TCPIP SMTP outgoing only ? > 0 > I mean, to don't run a service on TCP port 25,B > but enable local VMS users/applications to send SMTP mails out ? > J > On MX, this is easy (because SMTP and SMTP_SERVER are different agents). >  > TIAl   Peter,  F I just saw your post. We have TCPIP services set up to send us e-mail C when routine tasks are finished in the night. There is no incoming : email. -   Do you still want details?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.475 ************************