1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 28 Aug 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 476       Contents:! Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???  RE: charon vax emulator??? Re: charon vax emulator??? RE: charon vax emulator??? Re: HP Away  Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived Re: HPworld - I Survived multiple audio devices Re: PL/I for OpenVMS 8.2 Re: PL/I for OpenVMS 8.2" Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1 Re: Whither RAID?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:29:41 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: A whopping 50 percent...  ???, Message-ID: <79OdnQB8d6wD4LLcRVn-vA@igs.net>   David Froble wrote:  > John Smith wrote:  >  >> David Froble wrote: >> >>>> Kenneth Farmer wrote: >>>> >>>>E >>>>> Dumped VMS for HP-UX.  Now that deserves a laugh.  Wonder if he  >>>>> had anything >>>>> to do with that decision.  >>>>> E >>>>> Itanium2 isn't that bad.  The rx2600 I have performs very well,  >>>>> it's a nice @ >>>>> machine.  I wonder how many people that spend so much time, >>>>> criticizing Itanium actually have one. >>>>> B >>> How good or bad the itanic was, is, and becomes isn't the real >>> issue, at least for me.  >>> G >>> Starting with DEC, and the painful path to HP, I've always had this D >>> issue.  With VAX and Alpha under the control of the same companyC >>> providing VMS there has never been an issue with VMS losing the H >>> hardware on which it ran.  Once the hardware was abandoned, the fate. >>> of VMS depends upon whoever makes the CPU. >>> B >>> Alpha was the best CPU.  I doubt many will question this.  Not9 >>> speaking for him, (and who could since he never quits E >>> talking/posting), but even Andrew might admit that the CPU itself C >>> was great.  We won't get into packaging of the CPU. Regardless, 8 >>> Alpha is no more, as far as the future is concerned. >>> G >>> If the itanic never becomes profitable for Intel, what have they to F >>> lose by dropping it?  Not much.  The big losers will be you and meF >>> and the rest of those who continue to believe that VMS is the best" >>> commercial OS available today. >>> G >>> That's my issues with the itanic.  In my opinion the EPIC based CPU F >>> will never touch IBM's OOO Power architecture.  Thus, except for aG >>> few things that it may do well, it will not succeed at the top end. A >>> Opteron will kill it below the top end, and maybe even there.  >>> D >>> It may be adequate for most VMS users.  I hope it is.  I hope itC >>> stays around. But if it doesn't, the actions of some idiots and 6 >>> Intel will have hurt VMS very much, maybe fatally. >>>  >> >>G >> Which idiots? I have my list of the usual suspects. Care to add any?  >  > % > Well the list is long and glorious.  >  > E > I'd start with the VMS people who alienated the Unix people at DEC, @ > thus causing DEC to splinter.  Then on to (target drone pilot)F > Palmer, but at least with Palmer you knew where he stood.  Curly, asD > well as being an idiot is also an outright liar.  Then there's HP,G > and if Curly ever told any truths, Carly had a hand in killing Alpha.  >  > C >> Even if Itanic sticks around for a while, as long as it does not D >> provide leading price/performance or better performance at only aC >> *slight* (5% or so) price premium, it will not gain sales at the F >> expense of Power or even the forthcoming Sparcs. This does not bodeE >> well for VMS, for it will be only existing customers and extremely ? >> few new customers who will opt to stay with VMS if it is not  >> competitive.  >  > F > Here I disagree.  Performance isn't everything, and with VMS as longA > as it's usable performance really isn't significant.  There are D > people still running VAX systems.  If VAX systems were still beingE > produced there would be repeat sales to these people, several times C > over.  Possibly a serious number would never have moved to Alpha. A > The number of VAX models could be small.  Improvements (or just C > continuing with the last N-VAX) could just be process shrinks, or + > more extensive if revenues dictated such.  > F > Competitive is partly based upon user needs.  If the features of VMSD > are paramount, and customers have working solutions, bleeding edgeE > performance are minor.  Reasonably keeping up with other CPUs would  > be relavent.    J Perhaps I wasn't clear enought - I was alluding to the fact that very few,J if any *new* customers would be attracted if the price/performance was not there.   Price is one thing.   K Performance is another - speed is one metric of performance, but then so is ( stability, and so is disaster tolerance.  + And Price/Performance is yet another metric   L In the old game of "Fast, Cheap, and Good....pick one", it is surprising how- many people and companies pick Fast or Cheap.  > . >> And that doesn't even factor the likelihoodE >> that HP will continue to price VMS itself at a significant premium $ >> to PH-UX and Linux based systems. >  > G > There could be some milking of the VMS cow, but not like what occured % > with VAX systems in the late 1990s.  >  > G >> As you mentioned, Opteron will probably eat Itanic's  lunch from the @ >> low end and it will be the Intel BOD whose obligations are to= >> Intel's shareholders and not to HP's management which will @ >> ultimately drive Intel's decision to pull the plug on Itanic.G >> They'll pull an HP and run the fab to stockpile a few extra chips (a F >> la EV7z) and then shut the line down. When that happens, HP will beF >> stuck competing against Dell solely as a Billy box pusher unless HPG >> decides to port all their enterprise operating systems to Opteron or 	 >> Power.  >>F >> But by then it would be too late to ramp up EV8 or beyond using the6 >> intellectual property it is alleged they still own. >  > E > It was stated rather clearly 3 years ago that Compaq kept ownership ) > of the Alpha design, patents, and such.     H It is now 3 years later. What makes you believe that HP still owns theseE rights? Were you expecting a hand written 'comfort letter' from carly A telling you "Dave, it's all right. We still own the IP to Alpha."   L I was merely postulating a *very* plausible situation that companies executeK all the time in order to write-off investments on their books - the sale of H a defunct asset for a nominal amount in order to claim a tax recovery. IJ don't know whether it is true or not, but then neither do you know whetherH HP has not done this. After all -- Alpha is deader than a Norweigan Blue Parrot in HP's eyes.         >  > E >> Recognize that I don't have any firsthand knowledge about the next B >> statement, I have my doubts about HP still owning any rights toC >> Alpha. There was the Compaq 2001 'donation'/license to Intel but F >> since the chip has really not undergone any further development andE >> is deemed to be non-strategic and retired (stockpiled EV7z and the C >> line shut down or nearly so), I would not be surprised if HP has D >> sold the rights to Intel for $1 as an accounting cleanup exerciseD >> and as way to claim a tax loss. I don't believe that the 1997 FTCF >> settlement holds any longer and any accounting exercise is probablyF >> not a significant enough event to even be noted as a minor footnote9 >> in any of HP's SEC filings or reports to shareholders.  >  > Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 13:37:27 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)# Subject: RE: charon vax emulator??? 3 Message-ID: <NiDVI9m7B4ca@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFC15@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:H > My biggest concern when I hear Cust's considering Charon-VAX (or otherH > emulators) on x86 boxes for even semi-mission critical environments isA > the monthly security/virus patches as recommended by Microsoft.  > H > While these typically require system reboots, the biggest issue is notF > the reboot time (bad enough though), but rather the time required toF > qualify these monthly (and some semi-monthly) patches before loadingI > them into production i.e. most companies with semi-mission critical and H > higher type stuff need to certify/test any patches before loading them > into production. > D > Customers running on VAX have not had to worry about this and theyH > should fully understand what it is they are getting into before making > the jump.  > H > Note - this has nothing to do with CHARON-VAX or any other emulator on& > x86, but rather the entire solution.  @ It's kind of like having a VAX with the worlds worst firmware...    1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:06:17 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> # Subject: Re: charon vax emulator??? ' Message-ID: <412F8629.5060807@MMaz.com>    Bob Kaplow wrote:   } >In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFC15@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:  >    > H >>My biggest concern when I hear Cust's considering Charon-VAX (or otherH >>emulators) on x86 boxes for even semi-mission critical environments isA >>the monthly security/virus patches as recommended by Microsoft.  >>H >>While these typically require system reboots, the biggest issue is notF >>the reboot time (bad enough though), but rather the time required toF >>qualify these monthly (and some semi-monthly) patches before loadingI >>them into production i.e. most companies with semi-mission critical and H >>higher type stuff need to certify/test any patches before loading them >>into production. >>D >>Customers running on VAX have not had to worry about this and theyH >>should fully understand what it is they are getting into before making >>the jump.  >>H >>Note - this has nothing to do with CHARON-VAX or any other emulator on& >>x86, but rather the entire solution. >>     >> > A >It's kind of like having a VAX with the worlds worst firmware...  >  >    > F Propagating this ignorance is getting old... If you setup a W2K or XP @ host, with a single NIC and do NOT configure the NIC to use any A protocols except NDIS5, you CANNOT become infected by way of the  F countless flaws in Windows because, there are no Netbios, Netbeui, or A TCP/IP protocols running native to Windows to exploit and if you  H configure the system per SRI's recommendations, the host isn't used for 7 any other purpose so sneaker net isn't even an issue!!!      Barry    --    > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                            ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:50:37 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: RE: charon vax emulator??? 9 Message-ID: <NDEMLKKEBOIFBMJLCECICEIGDLAA.tom@kednos.com>    < -----Original Message-----= < From: Bob Kaplow [mailto:kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD] ( < Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:37 AM < To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % < Subject: RE: charon vax emulator???  <  < 
 < In article  D < <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB3DFC15@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.1 < net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: J < > My biggest concern when I hear Cust's considering Charon-VAX (or otherJ < > emulators) on x86 boxes for even semi-mission critical environments isC < > the monthly security/virus patches as recommended by Microsoft.  < > J < > While these typically require system reboots, the biggest issue is notH < > the reboot time (bad enough though), but rather the time required toH < > qualify these monthly (and some semi-monthly) patches before loadingK < > them into production i.e. most companies with semi-mission critical and J < > higher type stuff need to certify/test any patches before loading them < > into production. < > F < > Customers running on VAX have not had to worry about this and theyJ < > should fully understand what it is they are getting into before making
 < > the jump.  < > J < > Note - this has nothing to do with CHARON-VAX or any other emulator on( < > x86, but rather the entire solution. < B < It's kind of like having a VAX with the worlds worst firmware... <   I Not all.  As Barry pointed out Windows doesn't have to access to the net, 8 thereby making it immune to infection through isolation.   < 3 < 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" ( < 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< < Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	 6 < http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfC <     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org     
 < www.nar.org  < ' <  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!    , < http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html <  < --- ( < Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< < Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A < Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004  <  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:30:18 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: HP Away5 Message-ID: <412f8bcf$0$6171$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>   < "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message 7 news:f30679fb.0408270540.7538de2e@posting.google.com... J > "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote in message 3 > news:<412f0718$0$6171$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>... 	 >> <SNIP> 0 >> >> >> > May be with the Itanium Blades we can! >> >> >> > have a good surprise ! 
 >> >> >> >
 >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Regards
 >> >> >> >
 >> >> >> > FC  >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Fabio,  >> >> >>L >> >> >> Can you phone Servix in Brazil (they sell Itanium and Alphas) on 11
 >> >> >> 3619 J >> >> >> 3414 please? Get a quote for a rx1600, they are 1U high. I really >> >> >> would >> >> >> be F >> >> >> interested to know how much one would be from them, I want to >> >> >> understand  >> >> >> theH >> >> >> scale of the high import charges you have previously mentioned. >> >> >>J >> >> >> Post back here the cost, go for an entry level config, 1 CPU and  >> >> >> 1GB >> >> >> of 
 >> >> >> RAM.  >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks  >> >> >>
 >> >> >> Alex  >> >> >  >> >> >  >> >> > Ok Alex  >> >> > E >> >> > Wait a few hours ! :-) By the way I know  another reseller in B >> >> > Brazil: www.decatron.com.br ! They are in Rio de Janeiro ! >> >> > May I quote them ? >> >> >  >> >> > Regards  >> >> > 
 >> >> > FC >> >>  >> >> Fabio, >> >> K >> >> Yes why not get a quote from them too, I like their name with DEC in  	 >> >> it, J >> >> although unlike Servix  they are not mentioning VMS on their website >> >> (from ' >> >> admittedly a quick look through).  >> >>  >> >> Cheers >> >> 
 >> >> Alex >> >I receive one quote: >> >D >> >HP Integrity rx1600 with 1 CPU Itanium2 (1.1 GHz) , 1 GB of mem,D >> >1 disk ( 36 GB 10K RPM) , Linux, 1 year of support Plus HP 24x7. >> > >> >US$ 7.244,00 >> >  >> >Obs: The 24x7 is mandatory ! >> > >> > Alex ! Are u there ?  >> > >> > RX1600 !  US$ 6.733,00  >> > >>L >> Sorry for the delay. I just priced up a similar config on the HP website  >> ( >> http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=amp;&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=1784&LowBaseId=&LowPrice=&jumpid=re_hphqwwservers_IntBuy/rx1600/HomeBuyBtn )  >>C >> I priced a 1Mhz CPU though not 1.1Mhz, 1GB mem, 1 36GIG Disk, 1  
 >> management ( >> processor and 1yr 24x7 linux support. >>I >> Came out at USD $5200, the linux support was a notable amount of this.  >>J >> So looks like the difference between the US and Brazil is around $1500,K >> doesn't seem the 'high import charges in Brazil' are quite as bad as you  >> have made out!! >>L >> Is the lower of the quotes you got, for what is a pretty nice spec for an; >> entry level machine, really so much for companies there?  >>	 >> Cheers  >> >> Alex  >  > Alex.  > @ > This is the lower price I quoted. But .. in the link above the5 > system have 2 CPUs and I quoted 1 CPU + 1 GB only ! * > Is the USA price right for this system ? > 	 > Regards  >  > FC   Fabio,  E The US price is correct, as of earlier today, its came directly from  K following links off the page I posted. In the examples on that first page,  L they are single CPU not dual, the -2 in rx1600-2 I believe is indicating it / has an Itanium 2 in it, not that it has 2 CPUs.   J As you can see, you can get one for as low as $2110, but the price I gave L was the more or less the same spec as you gave, with the 24x7 linux support.   Andrew,   : >Seems horribly expensive compared with what you could get8 >for $52000 elsewhere particularly if it is only a 1 MHz	 >unit :-)   . Well for $52k I would want more than 1Mhz, :-)   Alex     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:41:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived , Message-ID: <412F804E.D8C614C2@teksavvy.com>   "Bart Z. Lederman" wrote: A > portions of the NorthEast corridor and some tracks in Michigan, ? > Amtrak is totally dependant upon the host (freight) railroad. A > If they close the tracks, which is probably what happened here, * > there is nothing Amtrak can do about it.  C But the fact remained that in such an emergency evacuation (florida > hurricane), the planes carried more people than the trains :-)  N Hey, I am one who crossed canada by train many times, until they castrated theM systrem and started to refused to carry cyclists even with totally empty cars M in a train.  So now, if the government wants to further cut Via Rail, I would M support it since VIA is totally useless to me and bus system here is actually K better than VIA (more frequent and in montreal-quebec, the bus is faster !)   E Hey, I used to take the overnight trains between Montreal-Toronto and I Montreal-New York-Philadelphia-Washington because they not only got me to N destination early, but also made for an enjoyable ride. Alas, the Montreal-New& York overnight train no longer exists.  L There are more flights between Toronto and London UK then there are commuterL trains where I live, those trains cost twice as much as the bus (which comesE around every 10 minutes) and when the city took the trains over, they N purposefully slowed them down so that the suburns wouldn't looks too appealing" and steal residents from the city.  M But yes, I have seen the potential for rail. I have seen fast trains (rode in F the TGV), I have seen great commuter train services. But when they areK mismanaged, or managed in a way that doesn't leverage their potential, they  are rather useless.   M Outside of the northeast corridor and a few other routes, Amtrak is only good G for holiday travel, or business travel where you have the time to enjoy H yourself. But it isn't cheap because to tarvel on a long haul train, you& really have to buy a bedroom/roomette.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 14:06:46 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived 3 Message-ID: <8bhSQjH+3OCe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   y In article <0cHXc.8900$0v5.93@news.cpqcorp.net>, lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) writes: C > I've traveled to and from New Orleans several times by train: the C > last was the day after 9/11, when trains were the only way to get C > anywhere (I had planned from the beginning to use the train, so I G > had reservations.  Amtrak really packed the train as much as possible E > to get as many people transported as they could.)  I find it a good D > way to travel, though it's not for people in a great hurry.  AfterC > New York and Chicago, New Orleans is relatively well connected by E > train, with routes to the East (Florida), North East (Atlanta, D.C. H > and New York), North (Chicago), and West (Texas and on to California).  J I've got Steve Goodman's "City of New Orleans" running through my mind ...  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  O  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:17:13 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> ! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived , Message-ID: <412FA4D9.20101@Flying-Disk.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   O > Outside of the northeast corridor and a few other routes, Amtrak is only good I > for holiday travel, or business travel where you have the time to enjoy J > yourself. But it isn't cheap because to tarvel on a long haul train, you( > really have to buy a bedroom/roomette.  H Last December, my wife and I took Amtrak from Los Angeles to Fargo (ND),H via Portland (OR).   We went first class (bedroom) except for the returnI leg from Portland to Los Angeles (all sold out) and the cost (for the two E of us) was about $300 higher than flying (Northwest via Minneapolis). O Since that included all our (excellent) meals, we felt it was money well-spent.   A I agree that you can't depend on Amtrak to get you there on time. G They don't call it the Coast Starlate (v. Starlight) for nothing.   :-) @ We scheduled a one-night layover in Portland going both ways andA are very glad we did.   Besides not having to worry about missing ? our connection, there is an excellent, inexpensive hotel within ? walking distance that is only one block from Powells Bookstore! 2 Downtown Portland is an excellent stop-over point.  ? The experience was so enjoyable that we're planning more Amtrak = trips.   I'm thinking of a late-June trip from Los Angeles to < Denver, then renting a car for the return trip so we can hit> Durango, Los Alamos (home of Black Hole Surplus!), etc.   Late= June should give plenty of daylight when going over the Rocky 
 Mountains.  > The best part of going by train?   No *&^#^$% TSA hassles, and employees who treat you well.    Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:07:55 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived , Message-ID: <H_-dnRBm6NdZLbLcRVn-og@igs.net>   Alan Frisbie wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  > F >> Outside of the northeast corridor and a few other routes, Amtrak isF >> only good for holiday travel, or business travel where you have theD >> time to enjoy yourself. But it isn't cheap because to tarvel on a> >> long haul train, you really have to buy a bedroom/roomette. > D > Last December, my wife and I took Amtrak from Los Angeles to Fargo > (ND), C > via Portland (OR).   We went first class (bedroom) except for the  > returnG > leg from Portland to Los Angeles (all sold out) and the cost (for the  > two G > of us) was about $300 higher than flying (Northwest via Minneapolis). E > Since that included all our (excellent) meals, we felt it was money 
 > well-spent.  > C > I agree that you can't depend on Amtrak to get you there on time. C > They don't call it the Coast Starlate (v. Starlight) for nothing.  > :-) B > We scheduled a one-night layover in Portland going both ways andC > are very glad we did.   Besides not having to worry about missing A > our connection, there is an excellent, inexpensive hotel within A > walking distance that is only one block from Powells Bookstore! 4 > Downtown Portland is an excellent stop-over point. > A > The experience was so enjoyable that we're planning more Amtrak ? > trips.   I'm thinking of a late-June trip from Los Angeles to > > Denver, then renting a car for the return trip so we can hit@ > Durango, Los Alamos (home of Black Hole Surplus!), etc.   Late? > June should give plenty of daylight when going over the Rocky  > Mountains. > @ > The best part of going by train?   No *&^#^$% TSA hassles, and > employees who treat you well.      http://www.amtraktrains.com/  B a website established by a 12-year old a few years back as a trainH enthusiast's hobby.  He currently does contract software development forD Amtrak, so his own site is a bit behind in terms of current updates.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 22:08:41 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived 2 Message-ID: <JhOXc.8986$f46.5938@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote:> > then renting a car for the return trip so we can hit Durango  4 Durango in June... Well, there are the usual things:  # *) a river rafting (half) day-trip    G *) riding the Durango-Silverton RR (narrow gague, no sleeping berths :)    *) Sweeny's   , *) A drive over to Uray for the hot springs.  F *) "Jeeping" on nearby BLM roads (just disregard that rather flat jeep 400' below you...)  , *) There is a place to take sailplane rides.  D *) Just don't let them call it "Durango Mountain Resort" - it is and& always should be simply "Purgatory" :)  C The in-laws live there, if you need/want I could ask them for other  suggestions.  
 rick jones --  D The glass is neither half-empty nor half-full. The glass has a leak.) The real question is "Can it be patched?" F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 04:11:07 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived 0 Message-ID: <871xhspcis.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:   D > European trains are electric.  Of course you need nuclear power toC > produce electricity:-) It costs about 6 times as much to haul one C > pound of freight by truck compared to trains, assuming the trains  > are also diesel.  H Many of the BE local trains, and the BE-NL intercity used mixed electricI and diesel units. The Diesel was a power boaster for leaving the station, * most of the cruise was from the overhead.   F Fast, efficient, and no huge big power suck on `go'. Cheap too, thanksD to MANY Kg of NL transport tickets I scrounged up from the RAI Decus :)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:03:39 -0700 3 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> ! Subject: Re: HPworld - I Survived . Message-ID: <4130041B.4070805@Flying-Disk.com>   Rick Jones wrote: 6 > Alan Frisbie <Usenet01REMOVE@flying-disk.com> wrote: > @ > > then renting a car for the return trip so we can hit Durango > 6 > Durango in June... Well, there are the usual things: > I > *) riding the Durango-Silverton RR (narrow gague, no sleeping berths :)   B You bet!   I just missed it the last time I went through there and" I don't want to miss it next time.  
 > *) Sweeny's   : Well, good food is always appreciated, wherever I find it.  : My wife loves hats, and she really wants a custom hat from= O'Farrell.   Thank goodness she won't expect me to contribute  to the purchase!   Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:40:18 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: multiple audio devices . Message-ID: <cgnv6i$nnt$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  8 Is there a way to run multiple audio devices under MMOV?  G I have a PWS 500au with the "hack" to enable the built-in audio device, L which works fine except for some crosstalk between the line-in and line-out.  H I added a couple of Ensoniq soundcards, but MMOV seemed to choose one of@ them to replace the built-in ES1888 and ignore the other.  Using@ "MMOV$DECSOUND -device 1" seemed to play to an internal speaker.  L To do what I want, I need 2 input devices and 1 output.  The 2 input devicesH must be able to operate concurrently and independently.  Am I wasting my  time trying to use VMS for this?  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Aug 2004 17:26:59 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com ! Subject: Re: PL/I for OpenVMS 8.2 , Message-ID: <cgnqt312co7@enews3.newsguy.com>  " Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: > ANNOUNCEMENT  @ > PL/I has been successfully installed on OpenVMS 8.2 for Alpha.  & Um...  Do you mean Alpha, or Itanium?    	Zane    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 19:09:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: PL/I for OpenVMS 8.2 3 Message-ID: <xEEz5IYNfK$e@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H In article <cgnqt312co7@enews3.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:$ > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: >> ANNOUNCEMENT  > A >> PL/I has been successfully installed on OpenVMS 8.2 for Alpha.  > ( > Um...  Do you mean Alpha, or Itanium?   4 Since he said Alpha, I would presume he means Alpha.  D But presumably this is the Field Test version or VMS 8.2 rather than the final release.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:55:22 +0100 < From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNOSPAMTHANKSDaniels@themail.co.uk>+ Subject: Re: Two IPs on same NIC OVMS 7.2-1 5 Message-ID: <412f839e$0$6173$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:412F518C.224254F7@teksavvy.com... > "Hans M. Aus" wrote: >>J >> Is it possible to assign two IP addresses on one NIC on one OVMS 7.2-1? > K > Yes. But the tough part is figuring out the name of the second interface.  > : > On a microvax 3100, VMS 7.2-1, TCP services 5.3, I have: > - > SE0 as the primary interface with 10.0.0.10 - > SEA0 as the second interface with 10.0.0.15  > J > (ok, as it happens, both are in teh same subnet, but they don't have to  > be). > 2 > the 3rd interface on that same nic would be SEB0 > D > I believe that this varies from machine to machine (the naming of  > interfaces). <SNIP>  5 Yes, I have posted this before, but here it is again.    The mapping tables include....  @ XE:DE XQ:QE ES:SE ET:NE EX:XE EF:FE EZ:ZE EC:CE ER:RE EW:WE EB:BI E EI:IE LL:LE FC:CF FX:FF FA:AF FW:WF FR:RF FQ:QF CL:IF EL:LF IC:CT IR:RT     EC TurboChannel Ethernet Adapter% XE DELUA/DENUA-class Ethernet Adapter  EF KFE52 Ethernet Adapter  LL LAN Failover Device ET DEBNA-Class Ethernet Adapter % XQ DELQA/DEQNA-Class Ethernet Adapter  ER EISA bus Ethernet Adapter ES DESVA-Class Ethernet Adapter  EX DEMNA-Class Ethernet Adapter ) EZ Second Generation Ethernet Chip (SGEC)  EW PCI bus Ethernet Adapter  EO 3Com Etherlink III Adapter  EB Shared Memory LAN EI Fast Ethernet - I82558  FW DEFPA PCI bus FDDI Adapter $ FA FA-Class (FutureBus) FDDI Adapter" FC DEFZA TurboChannel FDDI Adapter FX DEMFA-Class FDDI Adapter  FR EISA bus FDDI Adapter FQ DEFQA QBUS FDDI Interface CL ATM Classical IP  EL ATM Emulated LAN  IC DETRA Token Ring Adapter  IR DW300 Token Ring Adapter # SL SLIP/CSLIP Serial Line Interface 0 PP Point to Point Protocol Serial Line Interface     Alex     ------------------------------    Date: 27 Aug 2004 22:09:22 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: Whither RAID?3 Message-ID: <LYCrlR1WkHkK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <2p8lk9FieqdmU1@uni-berlin.de>, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:  > Dr. Dweeb wrote:  O >> It is a common mistake to think that RAID-X is some kind of panacea.  Only a N >> correct and regular backup strategy can save you from the sort of failure IH >> experienced.  Indeed, it may be exactly this type of failure that the >> article referred to.  >>   > 9 > In that conext, I found this comment interesting. From:  >  >  >  > "The Horrors of RAID 5 > D > Using RAID 5 for a high-update Oracle system can be disastrous to I > performance, yet many disk vendors continue to push RAID 5 as a viable g' > solution for highly updated systems."a > 0 > http://www.dba-oracle.com/art_dbazine_disk.htm >   ; 	That's because he is trapped in the past or thinking aboutu1 	vendors that had broken RAID5 implementations.  u  < 	He talks about IO contention and file placement, blah blah.: 	But he is missing the changes that have taken place in IO9 	subsystems.  Imagine the shock and horror of having yourI= 	log files and redo files share physical spindles!  Of course-< 	if you are spread across 100+ spindles (EVA) - no big deal.  B 	Or IBM's SAN Volume Controller or many other levels or techniques 	of virtualization.r    > 	But that would require a change in his thinking so instead of> 	talking about IO throughput or IO latencies being a bad thingB 	it is best to "keep it simple" and talk about RAID5 being "bad" -; 	but it isn't.  A RAID5 on a modern storage subsystem is inn< 	most cases a good thing.  This statement of his is an over- 	generalization:  O "In sum, it is clearly problematic for any company with high volumes of updatesdJ to use RAID 5, and Oracle10g with Automatic Storage Management (ASM) wants" Oracle customers to use RAID 1+0."  C 	"High volumes of updates."  Okay - define your criteria.  Vacuous.s  8 	Shoot - even EMC with DMX does RAID5 right - finally.    ' 	Finally, this one is an absolute hoot:   K "Solid state disk is getting cheaper, and may soon replace traditional diskrK devices. Many Oracle customers are using solid state disk for high I/O data * files such as TEMP, UNDO, and REDO files."  F 	Has he ever priced these?  Last I looked (over a year ago) I found a D 	4 Gbyte one for $64000, I just did a quick Google and found an old ' 	536 MBbyte Digital EZ one for $14000.     				Robt   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.476 ************************