1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 05 Dec 2004	Volume 2004 : Issue 675       Contents:. finding out what is installed on a system disk- Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX . I'd rather wait a year for a superior product!? Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS ? Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS ? Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS ? Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS @ looking for list of CD contents of layered-products distributionD Re: looking for list of CD contents of layered-products distributionD Re: looking for list of CD contents of layered-products distributionD Re: looking for list of CD contents of layered-products distribution; Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade? ; Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 18:20:02 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)7 Subject: finding out what is installed on a system disk $ Message-ID: <covjgi$rcb$1@online.de>  I As I mentioned in another thread, before donating some old CDs to a good  F home, I want to make sure that I have installed all the products from D them which a) I need, b) have since been retired and c) are not yet A installed.  Thus, I was using PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY and searching  H SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.HISTORY to see what was installed.  Interestingly, F although I have the PL/I compiler installed on VAX and ALPHA, I could  thus see it only on ALPHA.  5 Is there any DEFINITIVE way to see what is installed?   G I have only installed stuff via the menu from the layered-product CDs,  0 so there shouldn't be anything strange going on.  H It would be nice if, when installing a product from the layered-product B CDs, it would give an informational message if the product is not F already installed or if an older version is, and a warning if a newer  version is already installed.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 07:42:13 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: HP Expected to Drop Trucluster from HP-UX, Message-ID: <I9ydnZeHq4u7ny7cRVn-gQ@igs.net>   Lee Witten wrote: + > Israel T <rambam@bigpond.net.au> wrote in $ > news:87is7hy2r4.fsf@kafka.homenet:C >> That is why IBM want to exit the PC market (except the PC server F >> market). IBM's PC division will be a perfect fit for a company likeH >> Acer or Legend( now Lenovo). They make good product but have no brand >> name recognition. > C > I'm a happy customer - I'm typing this on a Think Pad.  To me the C > Think Pad is really good kit.  My place of employ uses them and I G > liked it so much I bought one (though mine's better than the one work  > sprung for :-)). > E > I wonder what large corporate IS departments will do if all the big B > boys leave the PC market.  I know mine has outsourced all the PCG > stuff and the inhouse folks (employed by the outsourcing company) get # > a lot of hand holding from IBM...   B Move back to server hosted applications with VT220's or X-terms as front-ends?    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2004 10:03:03 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)7 Subject: I'd rather wait a year for a superior product! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0412051003.294b88f2@posting.google.com>   = What is this "you get a new file system one year early" bull? : If I were a tru64 user, or HP unix user for that matter, I< would rather wait a year for a superior product then to have< a generic substitute ... if anyone buys this baloney, then I# have some swamp land in Florida ...   c http://www.crn.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BOU2JYXGYL10UQSNDBCSKHSCJUMEKJVN?articleID=54202097    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 07:40:31 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> H Subject: Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS, Message-ID: <jYWdnceOSbtdnC7cRVn-uQ@igs.net>   Rob Young wrote:? > In article <d7791aa1.0412040458.6a6a3e3c@posting.google.com>, , > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:A >> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<6  >>>>C >>>> "The PC divisions of H. P. and I.B.M." Ms. Fiering wrote, "are B >>>> *vulnerable* to being spun off if their *drag* on margins andC >>>> profitability are deemed too great by their parent companies."  >>> G >>> Strategically it probably makes great sense for HP to stay a while. B >>> They can claim the high ground, claim "no problem" alluding to" >>> HP being better than IBM, etc. >>>  >>> Rob  >>C >> I didn't know that in business it strategically makes good sense  >> to loose money? >  > < > You know what truly bores me (and this isn't just directed9 > at you Bob)?  Folks that trot out drivel with little or $ > no supporting facts to sustain it. > D > With that as an intro Bob... it took all of 1 minute to find this: > D > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2004/q2.html > G > Personal Systems revenue totaled $6.0 billion, up 17% year-over-year,  > withB > strong growth across all regions and categories. Desktop revenue > increased 14% = > year-over-year, while notebooks grew 26%. This is the third  > consecutive quarter > > that PC year-over-year revenue growth surpassed HP's nearest
 > competitor. G > Personal Systems reported an operating profit of $45 million, up from  > $23 # > million in the prior year period.  > < > The point here of course is your premise is without merit.  K With an operating profit of 0.75% of sales, HP would be better of investing K its money in T-bills even at today's low interest rates vs. exposing itself 3 to operating risks and vagaries of the marketplace.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:50:19 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> H Subject: Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS( Message-ID: <opsijfd5emzgicya@hyrrokkin>  E On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 07:40:31 -0500, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:    > Rob Young wrote:@ >> In article <d7791aa1.0412040458.6a6a3e3c@posting.google.com>,- >> bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: B >>> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<6 >>>>> D >>>>> "The PC divisions of H. P. and I.B.M." Ms. Fiering wrote, "areC >>>>> *vulnerable* to being spun off if their *drag* on margins and D >>>>> profitability are deemed too great by their parent companies." >>>>H >>>> Strategically it probably makes great sense for HP to stay a while.C >>>> They can claim the high ground, claim "no problem" alluding to # >>>> HP being better than IBM, etc.  >>>> >>>> Rob >>> D >>> I didn't know that in business it strategically makes good sense >>> to loose money?  >> >>= >> You know what truly bores me (and this isn't just directed : >> at you Bob)?  Folks that trot out drivel with little or% >> no supporting facts to sustain it.  >>E >> With that as an intro Bob... it took all of 1 minute to find this:  >>E >> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2004/q2.html  >>H >> Personal Systems revenue totaled $6.0 billion, up 17% year-over-year, >> with C >> strong growth across all regions and categories. Desktop revenue  >> increased 14%> >> year-over-year, while notebooks grew 26%. This is the third >> consecutive quarter? >> that PC year-over-year revenue growth surpassed HP's nearest  >> competitor.H >> Personal Systems reported an operating profit of $45 million, up from >> $23$ >> million in the prior year period. >>= >> The point here of course is your premise is without merit.  > E > With an operating profit of 0.75% of sales, HP would be better of    > investing H > its money in T-bills even at today's low interest rates vs. exposing   > itself5 > to operating risks and vagaries of the marketplace.  >  > H That is up from the 0.25% margin of 2003.  It doesn't matter how big theD sales are if you can't get to 8% or more.  At these margins in can'tE contribute enough to R&D to keep the product competitive, and as John ( suggests is a poor choice of investment.       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2004 07:52:50 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)H Subject: Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0412050752.61c45a99@posting.google.com>   f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<EswY3g3Cxy7d@eisner.encompasserve.org>...j > In article <d7791aa1.0412040458.6a6a3e3c@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:B > > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<6 > >> >  R > >> > "The PC divisions of H. P. and I.B.M." Ms. Fiering wrote, "are *vulnerable*P > >> > to being spun off if their *drag* on margins and profitability are deemed, > >> > too great by their parent companies." > >>  I > >> 	Strategically it probably makes great sense for HP to stay a while. D > >> 	They can claim the high ground, claim "no problem" alluding to$ > >> 	HP being better than IBM, etc. > >>   > >> 				Rob > > D > > I didn't know that in business it strategically makes good sense > > to loose money?    >  > = > 	The point here of course is your premise is without merit.  >   > that can only work if the market you trying to underprice willA eventually create a profit ... and pc's will NEVER be profitable! @ Haven't you read the home pc projections yet?  They are going to> collapse!  The mainframe will rule as cable vendors will offer< users web and email packages ... your cable box will be your> computer, and your flat screen 50 inch digital tv will be both> tv and monitor ... I told you this was inevitable years ago as< soon as tv prices began to drop ... and now only IBM has the< chip to rule the high end ... so business lesson 1 for today is  ? You don't cut prices and lose money to gain control of a market 3 if the market is not profitable in the first place!    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2004 10:18:05 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)H Subject: Re: IBM smells the coffee - HP refuses to market profitable VMS= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0412051018.22c2d2e6@posting.google.com>   f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<EswY3g3Cxy7d@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  9 business lesson number 2 ... next pc's will diminish from 6 the business realm as well ... business is looking for6 every cost cutting angle they can ... why do you think7 ceo's drool over a piece of $#!] like linux ... because 7 the licensing is cheap (never mind the price of all the 7 add ons i.e. security) ... they want cheap hardware and 7 cheap licenses ... why do you think sun has resorted to 9 the desperate move of giving away slowaris ... because if : it doesn't, it will cease to exist (which it will anyway)!  7 VMS and itanium are the wildcards ... if the alpha team 4 can improve on itanium and you use the overwhelming : strenghts of VMS by cutting entry fees and pit it againset6 any loser unix/linux/windoze solution, you win and you7 win BIG ... The days of pc's and Micro$oft are numbered 6 and any business who relies on income stream from them8 alone days are also numbered ... learn it, or become it!   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 12:43:32 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)I Subject: looking for list of CD contents of layered-products distribution $ Message-ID: <couvpk$pfb$1@online.de>  H I seem to have lost the link to the lists which contain what is on what B CD for the quarterly layered-product CDs.  It's not at HP, but at G someplace like ABC (yes, ABC, that's not just an example), ABC Labs or  5 something.  Does anyone know what I am talking about?   A For VAX and ALPHA, for each distribution, there are lists of the  ? contents of each CD, what products have changed since the last  4 distribution, what's new, what has been deleted etc.  C Although one would think that VMS customers would be interested in  I layered products, there doesn't seem to be any obvious link to this from   the HP VMS web pages.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 14:51:09 +0200 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>M Subject: Re: looking for list of CD contents of layered-products distribution & Message-ID: <41B3205D.64B3CD45@hp.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > I > I seem to have lost the link to the lists which contain what is on what C > CD for the quarterly layered-product CDs.  It's not at HP, but at H > someplace like ABC (yes, ABC, that's not just an example), ABC Labs or7 > something.  Does anyone know what I am talking about?  > B > For VAX and ALPHA, for each distribution, there are lists of the@ > contents of each CD, what products have changed since the last6 > distribution, what's new, what has been deleted etc. > D > Although one would think that VMS customers would be interested inJ > layered products, there doesn't seem to be any obvious link to this from > the HP VMS web pages.    http://www1.aclabs.com   Mike --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:44:24 +0000 (UTC)6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)M Subject: Re: looking for list of CD contents of layered-products distribution 0 Message-ID: <newscache$86498i$ftq$1@news.sil.at>  w In article <couvpk$pfb$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: I >I seem to have lost the link to the lists which contain what is on what  C >CD for the quarterly layered-product CDs.  It's not at HP, but at  H >someplace like ABC (yes, ABC, that's not just an example), ABC Labs or 6 >something.  Does anyone know what I am talking about?  . 	http://www1.aclabs.com	or	http://www1.sqp.com  B >For VAX and ALPHA, for each distribution, there are lists of the @ >contents of each CD, what products have changed since the last 5 >distribution, what's new, what has been deleted etc.   7 For Alpha nothing important and for VAX nothing at all. C eg. I was expecting ASOVMS V7.3 ECO4 (as was announced for Oct 2004 I in the Oct and Nov 2004 OpenVMS Rolling Roadmaps) but alas still at ECO3.   D >Although one would think that VMS customers would be interested in J >layered products, there doesn't seem to be any obvious link to this from  >the HP VMS web pages.  H The URL is mentioned in the OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 Release notes, in ITRC,I and on some more places and finally just where you wanted it to be found, J on the OpenVMS homepage in the column "Service and support" item "Software Product Library"   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 18:04:49 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)M Subject: Re: looking for list of CD contents of layered-products distribution $ Message-ID: <covik0$pbg$1@online.de>  E In article <newscache$86498i$ftq$1@news.sil.at>, peter@langstoeger.at $ (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:   D > >For VAX and ALPHA, for each distribution, there are lists of the B > >contents of each CD, what products have changed since the last 7 > >distribution, what's new, what has been deleted etc.  > 9 > For Alpha nothing important and for VAX nothing at all.   ( I guess you mean the most recent change.  F Before giving away some old CDs to a good home, I wanted to make sure I that I install FROM THE OLD CDs anything which has been retired, which I  H want and which I don't have installed, since it won't be on more modern  CDs.  I With this in mind, I was doing a check to see what is installed on which  I system disk, by searching SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.HISTORY and using PRODUCT  < SHOW HISTORY.  Presumably, this should pick up everything.  F Interestingly, it doesn't show the PL/I compiler on VAX, though it is = there.  It DOES show it on ALPHA.  How could this come about?   K > and on some more places and finally just where you wanted it to be found, L > on the OpenVMS homepage in the column "Service and support" item "Software > Product Library"  & Didn't look long enough, I guess.  :-(   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 18:31:14 +0200& From: "Yehavi" <yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il>D Subject: Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?* Message-ID: <covd4l$42c$1@news.iucc.ac.il>  ; "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message  - news:qscI8TP$Yasr@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > In article <2004Dec4.083438@hujicc>, yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi   > Bourvine (58-4279)) writes: C >> Thanks toall who answered but it seems I am in a deeper problem:  >>: >>>> I recall there was DECW$TAILOR but I can't find it... >>> E >>> DECW$TAILOR is in SYS$UPDATE. This deals with only basic root of   >>> DECwidnows software. >>1 >> I can't find it anywhere on the system disk...  > D > Can't find DECW$TAILOR ?  Are you sure you are talking about VAX ? >   ; Sorry, I thought that the default today for VMS is Alpha...  This is an Alpha machine.   G                                                       Thanks! __Yehavi:    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2004 11:05:10 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) D Subject: Re: Reinstalling DECwindows after losing it during upgrade?3 Message-ID: <hgM5SU0QPiF2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <covd4l$42c$1@news.iucc.ac.il>, "Yehavi" <yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il> writes:  > = > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message  / > news:qscI8TP$Yasr@eisner.encompasserve.org... F >> In article <2004Dec4.083438@hujicc>, yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi  >> Bourvine (58-4279)) writes:D >>> Thanks toall who answered but it seems I am in a deeper problem: >>> ; >>>>> I recall there was DECW$TAILOR but I can't find it...  >>>>F >>>> DECW$TAILOR is in SYS$UPDATE. This deals with only basic root of  >>>> DECwidnows software.  >>> 2 >>> I can't find it anywhere on the system disk... >>E >> Can't find DECW$TAILOR ?  Are you sure you are talking about VAX ?  >> > = > Sorry, I thought that the default today for VMS is Alpha...  > This is an Alpha machine.   / Never assume any default in Usenet discussions.   E DECW$TAILOR is VAX-only.  For Alpha you need to do a PCSI reconfigure + using the original VMS distribution CD-ROM.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2004.675 ************************